Columbia Gorge engulfed in flames , and Portland covered in smoke

[OSR stands with Israel]

http://www.oregonlive.com/wildfires/index.ssf/2017/09/the_gorge_will_never_be_the_sa.html


http://www.kgw.com/mb/news/local/nw-engulfed-in-flames-what-we-know-about-fires-burning-across-oregon-and-washington/471318324


This is so heartbreaking, the gorge is one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen and what happened today is so sad . I have so many countless memories there, hiking with my dad , going there with relatives and friends, and in general being one of my parents and mine favorite destinations since I was toddler . Thankfully they were able to save multnomah falls though ,and I hope the two teens who started this fire by using fireworks Sunday evening  get punished harshly for what they did .

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is awful I'm glad they caught the asses who started the fire.

This makes it more maddening: https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2017/09/witness_teens_giggled_as_they.amp

[OSR stands with Israel]

Its not as smoky today as yesterday but its still pretty bad

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's named after Columbus, FF fire, good guy

This is not funny

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's named after Columbus, FF fire, good guy

This is not funny

Neither is supporting John Kasich.

Comparing a 30k acre forest fire which destroyed countless homes, destroyed much of the gorge (one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen) with supporting a political candidate is a horrible .

[OSR stands with Israel]

The person responsible for this was fined 36.6 million dollars

http://www.kptv.com/story/38238793/judge-teen-who-started-eagle-creek-fire-ordered-to-pay-366m-in-restitution

[OSR stands with Israel]

The person responsible for this was fined 36.6 million dollars

http://www.kptv.com/story/38238793/judge-teen-who-started-eagle-creek-fire-ordered-to-pay-366m-in-restitution

It's good to know the forests will be coming back and will be as wonderful as ever... but this teenager wont!  Why not just shoot the guy in the head?  People get a lot less for the unnecessary death of a loved one.

Yah it was too much I would say


- the 1920 hours of community service and 5 years Probation should have been enough

[OSR stands with Israel]

The person responsible for this was fined 36.6 million dollars

http://www.kptv.com/story/38238793/judge-teen-who-started-eagle-creek-fire-ordered-to-pay-366m-in-restitution

It's good to know the forests will be coming back and will be as wonderful as ever... but this teenager wont!  Why not just shoot the guy in the head?  People get a lot less for the unnecessary death of a loved one.

Yah it was too much I would say


- the 1920 hours of community service and 5 years Probation should have been enough

Well, I do have to say that public opinion in Oregon was overwhelmingly in favor of massive criminal charges against this "kid", regardless of political identification (Republican/Democrat/Libertarian/Green), regions of the Oregon, Household Income, etc....

This was a huge disaster that could have potentially caused a significant number of deaths fighting the fire, cost taxpayers tens of Millions of Dollars, destroyed Millions and Millions of dollars of Private Property, destroyed tens of thousands of acres of a rugged "Wild and Scenic" corridor, etc....

Quite frankly at the downstate Oregon Factory where I work, most of folks wanted the kid once he was caught to be charged as an adult and do Ten Years in the State Pen....

In the Court of public opinion in Oregon, he probably is considered to have gotten off light, considering we had environmentalist protesters that torched a few Hummers about 20 years back on a Car Lot in Eugene that are still in prison, while this "kid" doesn't have to do a day of time in the joint....

In Oregon, as well as some of our neighbors right across the Gorge in Washington State, we grew up with Smokey the Bear, Forest Fire alert season, etc....

This is something deeply embedded in the collective consciousness of the State, and yes the kid got off light considering there is no jail time involved, and a huge financial penalty that will never be repaid to taxpayers....

I'm hoping the Judge did the right thing, considering this was a minor after all, but still I suspect there are many Oregonians from a wide variety of background who consider this to be a "slap on the wrist" judgement.

Oh I know that and I too supported throwing the book at him originally  and have him spend 7-10 years in prison for the crime . What happened to the Gorge was extremely tragic and one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen may never be the same .

Also  all of Portland was covered in smoke for 2 weeks after that and some days we had ash fall on our car .



I think though now having him be in juvie till he is 21 along with with like around 10 years of probation and 10,000 hours of community service would have been better than this fine .


Not that I feel any sympathy for him as he is a scumbag for doing this .

[OSR stands with Israel]

The person responsible for this was fined 36.6 million dollars

http://www.kptv.com/story/38238793/judge-teen-who-started-eagle-creek-fire-ordered-to-pay-366m-in-restitution

It's good to know the forests will be coming back and will be as wonderful as ever... but this teenager wont!  Why not just shoot the guy in the head?  People get a lot less for the unnecessary death of a loved one.

The fine disappears at age 25. That's perfectly reasonable. A four year penalty on saving relative to your peers. Hard to imagine a more just outcome.

Don’t you think sending him to juvie might have been a better punishment than a fine he will never be able to pay back

[OSR stands with Israel]

Waaaaaaaaay too harsh punishment. I think a 10k fine, a couple years of probation, and 1000 hours of community service sounds about right.

I agree. It's a shame that a lynch mob mentality concerning the profile of the crime affects sentencing so much.

It was a massive forest fire which trapped 150 hikers: http://www.hoodrivernews.com/news/2017/sep/02/about-150-hikers-trapped-fire-eagle-creek-trail/


Thankfully they were all rescued before it was too late but the fire could have been life-threatening to them.



This is not even taking into the fact all the smoke which covered Portland for weeks and made it's air worse than Beijing for the first few days(Along with ash falling) , the destruction of many people's property in the area, along with the destruction of some of the most scenic areas in the country.


People have gotten  sent to prison for starting much smaller fires then this before



While I think the 36 million fine is way too excessive, I think he should have been sent to Juvie for this.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Waaaaaaaaay too harsh punishment. I think a 10k fine, a couple years of probation, and 1000 hours of community service sounds about right.

I agree. It's a shame that a lynch mob mentality concerning the profile of the crime affects sentencing so much.

It was a massive forest fire which trapped 150 hikers: http://www.hoodrivernews.com/news/2017/sep/02/about-150-hikers-trapped-fire-eagle-creek-trail/


Thankfully they were all rescued before it was too late but the fire could have been life-threatening to them.



This is not even taking into the fact all the smoke which covered Portland for weeks and made it's air worse than Beijing for the first few days(Along with ash falling) , the destruction of many people's property in the area, along with the destruction of some of the most scenic areas in the country.


People have gotten  sent to prison for starting much smaller fires then this before



While I think the 36 million fine is way too excessive, I think he should have been sent to Juvie for this.

I'm aware of the consequences of the fire. But, people wanting to nail the kid to the wall because he got unlucky that his bad choice led to as much destruction as it did is exactly the kind of thing I'm criticizing. If anything, watching the effects of his decision should be more edifying than his punishment. This was, after all, a non-violent crime by a 15 year old.

I suppose it's hard to go too much further here without delving into some more general philosophical questions about the purpose of justice. Traditionally, people have thought of four (not mutually exclusive) purposes of justice:

1. Restrictive Justice: What sentence is necessary so as to protect society? I think watching the wave of destruction ought to discourage people from chucking fireworks into the woods more than locking this kid up would. So I wouldn't worry much about this one in this case.

2. Rehabilitative Justice: What sentence can be given so as to help rehabilitate the criminal? I haven't spoken to this kid, but I personally suspect probation and community service would be more effective here than tying a weight around him for a decade.

3. Retributive Justice: What punishment is owed unto the criminal due to gravity of his offenses? In this case, I'd say a fairly light one. This was, after all, a non-violent crime by a 15 year old.

4. Restitutive Justice: What is owed by the criminal to society? The Court decided to make an example of him here for this purpose alone, but did so in such an over-the-top manner that it more or less completed ignored the other purposes of justice. They've made it in such a one-dimensional manner that makes me question whether it was simply done to please the mob.

So I agree with Snowguy, the trees will grow back one day, and while this kid did wrong and ought to receive punishment for it, he is still worth more than all the tree he burned and we should remember that.

I agree with mostly what  you said and I agree the  fine though was unprecedented and really should have been no where near as harsh . One reason I believe he should be sent to juvie though was when a witness told him don’t u understand you just started a fire he laughingly said what can I do about I now . Another reason is all those hikers being trapped could have been life threatening and people have been sent to prison or juvie for much less .