Quebec General Election 2012 (4th September)

[BigSkyBob]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

Well, Marois takes her positions because they is a public for that.
In any case, despite the Anglo opposition to language laws, the Franco population overwhelmingly support them.

Oh my! I wonder why that might be!

Historical reasons. The Anglophone minority ruled the economy of Québec until the 60's (for example, it was very hard to get a loan if you were French, the access to the high-ranking positions in businesses was blocked because they didn't talked English, many businesses were working in English only and customers were insulted if they talked French and were refused to be served....). Let's let than the Anglo minority abused their power and than this is the coilback.

That was sarcasm. It seems obvious to me that Francophones would support language laws that are meant to benefit only them.

Do you really think "coilback" is a legitimate justification for laws that, whatever their intended purposes, impose a significant burden on minorities?

There is no significant burden on minorities. Sure, it may require people to learn French, but honestly, it's logical to someone which immigrate in US to learn English. It's also logical for someone who immigrate in Quebec to learn French.

The problem with your formulation is that those folks immigrated to Canada. If I spoke neither French nor English, and, was admitted to Canada, I would strive to learn English before French. That would be equally true even if I initially settled in Quebec.

In Israel you have a country that has the forms of democracy, but, not the substance of democracy since religious minorities can only vote for candidates that support the "Jewish" nature of the state rather than candidates that advocate their full political and religious equality. Passing laws demanding candidates kowtow to the "French" nature of Quebec is equally odious.

The folks in Quebec have every right to declare their independence from Canada. So far, they have failed to take that decision. Until they do, they are part of Canada, and, they, like the rest of Canada, share a duty to try to make bilingualism work. One set of highly provincial language laws in one Province, and, another inclusive language law for everyone else isn't going to go over well in the rest Canada, especially English-speaking Canada.

[BigSkyBob]

The problem with your formulation is that those folks immigrated to Canada. If I spoke neither French nor English, and, was admitted to Canada, I would strive to learn English before French. That would be equally true even if I initially settled in Quebec.

This is eminently ridiculous. Canada is a bilingual nation. Immigrants to Quebec should be expected to learn French in the same way as immigrants to British Columbia should be expected to learn English.

Again, there is no such thing as "an immigrant to British Columbia." There are only immigrants to Canada. Any immigrant to any county ought to learn the local language. Since Canada is a bilingual nation, any immigrant to Canada ought to learn either English or French. I just happen to believe that learning English first has more utility to the immigrant, and is, thus, the rational choice.

[BigSkyBob]

Well, no. Only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. All other provinces have only English as official language. While Canada is bilingual, the provinces are not.

Well, yes. Again, the folks in the rest of Canada aren't going to be happy having to live under forced bilingualism at the federal level when the Province of Quebec systematically strips the democratic rights of English-only speakers there. That is especially true when many of those the linguistic majority is trying to accommodate overtly reject the concept of a united Canada in favor of separatism.

I have no problem with Quebec choosing independence. But, the reality is that Quebec has repeatedly chosen to remain a part of Canada. At a certain point, it is appropriate to tell the separatists to either defecate or relinquish the stall.

[BigSkyBob]

Well, no. Only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. All other provinces have only English as official language. While Canada is bilingual, the provinces are not.

Well, yes. Again, the folks in the rest of Canada aren't going to be happy having to live under forced bilingualism at the federal level when the Province of Quebec systematically strips the democratic rights of English-only speakers there.

The rest of Canada is clearly not bilingual. Most of the English Canada is talking English only and its next to impossible to get any service or anything in French.
And no democratic right of non-French speakers is stripped.

The proposal, as I understand it, is to strip non-French speakers of the right to stand for office. Standing for office is clearly one of the fundamental democratic rights.

[BigSkyBob]

Well, according to CBC, the final numbers are:

PQ - 54
QLP - 50
CAQ - 19
QS - 2

I definitely overestimated the amount of people who would jump ship from the Liberals.  And even PQ didn't do as well as I'd thought.  The big loser tonight was really CAQ, who underperformed most everyone's prediction, and QLP should be happy they performed as well as they did.

The big loser tonight is really the PQ. They expected a  governing majority, with or without QS, but, ended up with little more than a mandate to organize trash collection at the sufferage of the PLQ/CAQ majority. The CAQ won over 27% of the vote as expected. Like the PQ, they didn't win as many seats as expected because the PLQ won more seats than expected. Unlike the CAQ, the PQ failed to reach their expected vote percentage.

Presumably, one of the first acts of the PQ will be, essentially, an inquiry as to whether the PLQ was a bunch of crooks. The CAQ would have every reason to let that investigation go forward unimpeded.  If the PLQ is shown to have been a bunch of crooks, exactly which party is going to lead the charge against separatism in the next election? 

[BigSkyBob]

Were you beaten up by a sovereigntist as a kid or something?

Actually, I was rooting for the referendum the last time it came to a vote. Unfortunately, something like 40% of Francophones and almost all of the English speakers voted against. Since then, support has only eroded. Jean Charest correctly noted that the future of Quebec is as a part of Canada. This election only confirms that fact. I suppose there is something romantic in pursuing a hopeless cause.

In any case, Sovereignty won't alter Quebec's linguistic destiny. While in a hundred years the language spoken there might be called "French," it will be Franglais at best. Force majeure isn't going to change that fact.