Israel general discussion

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Man, the left in Israel is just really DOA, huh? It's been well over a decade since Labor was in power. Strange to see.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Man, the left in Israel is just really DOA, huh? It's been well over a decade since Labor was in power. Strange to see.

They have enough relevance to be in the current government.

Hatnuah? They're centrist. I'm talking about Labor, which was in charge for the vast majority of Israel's pre-Barak days.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Wow, was I wrong, Dannon is trying for leadership.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.625791

What major differences, if any, are there between Dannon and Feiglin anyway? I get the feeling that Dannon is more secularist, while Feiglin is basically Bayit Yehudi's outpost in Likud. Anything else?

He's also for a volunteer army, correct? I read the Jewish Press and saw an article to that effect a while back.

Not at all, Dannon is closer to JH than Feiglin is. Dannon is a conventional very right wing. Feiglin is far more liberterian, he wants to privatise the school system and the land, would actually get rid of some of the religious laws and supports legalising marijuana.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

New Knesset Channel poll:
Likud: 22
Bayit Yehudi: 17
Labor: 14
Yesh Atid: 10
Meretz: 9
Yisrael Beitenu: 8
Shas: 8
UTJ: 8
Kachlon: 7
Hadash: 5
Hatnuah: 4
Raam-Taal: 4
Balad: 4

So it seems that (thus far) the happenings in Jerusalem have not affected the electoral landscape at all.

One more thing: Since Bibi tends to underperform his polls, is it a legitimate possibility that we could see Bayit Yehudi with the largest faction? If so, what happens?

I imagine that Bennett would get the chance to form a coalition, and Likud would agree to join. However, it may be harder for Bennett to pull the coalition together, and a few of the more moderate parties may balk. If he can't get the 61 together, then Bibi - likely the runner up - would get the chance and would probably be able to, keeping him in the PM slot despite his second-place finish for the second time.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yeah, I'm guessing that Bennett would make some social concessions to Yesh Atid, and Lapid would join despite their differences on territorial issues.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

To be honest, I don't think there's going to be any serious moves towards a peace settlement until the current Israeli PM leaves the political scene.

It has as much to do with the next US President as it does with the next Israeli PM. I don't think Netanyahu is willing to negotiate with Obama at the table anymore.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/sudanese-attacks-israeli-on-ethiopian-airlines-flight/

An Israeli citizen was attacked by a Sudanese Muslim on a flight after he learned the man was Jewish.  There doesn't seem to be much outrage or concern from the world at these attacks.  I can only imagine what the reaction would be if the roles were reversed.

There was also a stabbing in Crown Heights of a Jewish man last night, and another Jewish man was assaulted nearby the same night. There was briefly a thread on it last night, but it deteriorated with incredible speed and was deleted.

No certainty as to connections there, but an ugly picture of the world right now when it comes to Jewish safety is certainly emerging.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Even though Sanders is the most Israeli critical of all the serious presidential candidates, a lot of holier than thou leftists who are always anxious to call people out want to pin him as being pro-Israel. This is a major problem because most young people in America (his base) are basically pro-Hamas.

Yeah, there's been a lot of fairly explicit anti-semitism surrounding Sanders and Israel. It's very clear they're holding him to a completely different standard than Clinton, to say nothing of the Republicans.

Diane Rehm's "Secret dual citizenship" thing was probably the most blatant moment.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

I mean, all the rest of this garbage aside, let's not pretend that if Israel "led the fight against ISIL" by hitting them with overwhelming force, you would do anything but call them the new Hitler.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

I mean, all the rest of this garbage aside, let's not pretend that if Israel "led the fight against ISIL" by hitting them with overwhelming force, you would do anything but call them the new Hitler.

ISIL is the enemy. Netanyahu contributed to their rise. Let him help take them out with us.

Explain how Netanyahu contributed to ISIL's rise.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

I mean, all the rest of this garbage aside, let's not pretend that if Israel "led the fight against ISIL" by hitting them with overwhelming force, you would do anything but call them the new Hitler.

ISIL is the enemy. Netanyahu contributed to their rise. Let him help take them out with us.

Explain how Netanyahu contributed to ISIL's rise.

Supporting the U.S. to go to war and topple Saddam, which in turn helped contribute to their rise.

"Standing alongside the US" is hardly some special thing. A whole lot of countries did that.

And I'm sure Israel would be more than happy to aid in killing the scum of ISIL, except that the rest of the anti-ISIL coalition doesn't want their help. The presence of Israel tends to inflame the "Arab street" and would likely rally them to ISIL's side.

Israel doesn't owe anyone anything for supporting the US/UK side in Iraq, but regardless of that, there's reasons they don't take an active role in the fight against ISIL, and it's not because they don't care about the threat.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

It's not just one person or one country. Anybody in power or influence who supported that war bears responsibility.

Stop thinking criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's fair game.

And yet I don't see you talking about Poland or the UK's responsibility to stop ISIL.

Plus, again, if Israel started aggressively bombing ISIL bases tomorrow, can you honestly tell me you would support it? Or would you be talking about Eebul Israel bombing Muslims again?

And I'll stop calling certain criticisms of Israel anti-semitic when Israel critics stop blaming us for the US' mistakes and terrorizing American Jews on college campuses.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

It's not just one person or one country. Anybody in power or influence who supported that war bears responsibility.

Stop thinking criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's fair game.

And yet I don't see you talking about Poland or the UK's responsibility to stop ISIL.

Plus, again, if Israel started aggressively bombing ISIL bases tomorrow, can you honestly tell me you would support it? Or would you be talking about Eebul Israel bombing Muslims again?

And I'll stop calling certain criticisms of Israel anti-semitic when Israel critics stop blaming us for the US' mistakes and terrorizing American Jews on college campuses.

I want anyone and everyone to destroy the Islamic State. I don't care which country it is.

When you call someone anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel on things in response to something else you find unfair, you're not being the bigger person.

First up, I'm not interested in being the bigger person. Not anymore. We've been trying to do that for centuries, and it led us to the ovens. That's why Israel is so important to me - because it's the best insurance against a second Holocaust we've ever had.

And second, I'm not calling you anti-semitic. I haven't seen enough evidence to go with that, unlike other posters, who like to throw around slurs and make explicitly anti-semitic comparisons. I do think, however, your focus on Israel's "culpability" for Iraq has shades of anti-semitic arguments and you should probably drop it. Bush didn't need any outside forces pushing him to war with Iraq. Israel bought into the presented evidence just like most of America.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

It's not just one person or one country. Anybody in power or influence who supported that war bears responsibility.

Stop thinking criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's fair game.

And yet I don't see you talking about Poland or the UK's responsibility to stop ISIL.

Plus, again, if Israel started aggressively bombing ISIL bases tomorrow, can you honestly tell me you would support it? Or would you be talking about Eebul Israel bombing Muslims again?

And I'll stop calling certain criticisms of Israel anti-semitic when Israel critics stop blaming us for the US' mistakes and terrorizing American Jews on college campuses.

I want anyone and everyone to destroy the Islamic State. I don't care which country it is.

When you call someone anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel on things in response to something else you find unfair, you're not being the bigger person.

First up, I'm not interested in being the bigger person. Not anymore. We've been trying to do that for centuries, and it led us to the ovens. That's why Israel is so important to me - because it's the best insurance against a second Holocaust we've ever had.

And second, I'm not calling you anti-semitic. I haven't seen enough evidence to go with that, unlike other posters, who like to throw around slurs and make explicitly anti-semitic comparisons. I do think, however, your focus on Israel's "culpability" for Iraq has shades of anti-semitic arguments and you should probably drop it. Bush didn't need any outside forces pushing him to war with Iraq. Israel bought into the presented evidence just like most of America.

I want you to know that I condemn the holocaust just like everyone else. I also want you to know I don't approve of Israel's treatment of Palestine. Both are wrong and my heart goes out to the victims and families in both situations.

My whole point on Israel and Iraq is that it only shows how much influence Israel has on America and it should not be.

I support a two state solution with a decreased Israel lobby influence while also protecting religious freedoms for Jewish people here and other religious groups.

I do not want a second Holocaust. I do not want Israel wiped off the map. I simply want what I believe to be an injustice to be corrected and that is a free Palestine.

Except, see, once again you have this backwards.

Bush wanted the US to go to war in Iraq even before 9/11. This is confirmed. Israel may have agreed with him (especially after being presented the same evidence), but they certainly didn't "influence" him.

If anything, on Iraq, Israel did the US' dirty work, not the other way around. Israel had reasons to want Saddam gone, for sure, starting with Saddam's bombing of Israel during the Gulf War, but that just meant they had common cause with Bush and his long-standing grudge.

So if you want to make a case about the Israel lobby, Iraq is very much the wrong place to do it.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Even though Sanders is the most Israeli critical of all the serious presidential candidates, a lot of holier than thou leftists who are always anxious to call people out want to pin him as being pro-Israel. This is a major problem because most young people in America (his base) are basically pro-Hamas.

This Sanders supporter is Pro-Palestine. I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm against the terrorist state that is Israel. They're a parasitic country. The United States owes Israel nothing. My allegiance is to America, not Israel.

Remember: Israel needs America. Not the other way around.

Why are you so anti-semitic? This thread is about general Israel discussion, not about personal opinion on politics.

Israel is not immune from criticism and criticizing Israel does not equate with anti-Semitism.

Blaming Israel for Iraq certainly does.

It's certainly true that Netanyahu, who is now back in power, supported the war, which in turn helped create the Islamic State. All I'm saying is I want him to be a major player in taking these monsters down.

You advocate for a war, consequences ensue, now clean up the mess you partly contributed to.

A boatload of countries supported Iraq. Had nothing to do with Israel.

You should know Netanyahu wasint even in office during Iraq.

And obviously Israel should, will, and is helping us destroy the disgusting monster of ISIS. The county that really needs to pay for legit evil is Saudi Arabia.

I know he wasn't, but now he's back and since he's the one in charge, he should fight them too.

Everyone should fight ISIS. We all need to play a part in destroying this scourge to humanity.

That being said, Israel doesn't "owe" anything in particular to this fight, certainly not more than other countries. In fact, I would urge everyone to drop the whole argument of what "Israel owes", simply because any discussion of debt in terms of Israel's population and the rest of the world is not going to end with Israel in the red.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So is the annexation of Palestine just hot air or are they genuinely considering it? What would happen if they did it and found themselves told that they are going too far by the International Community? Or would Trump possibly carry enough weight to wave it through?

The concept of annexing the West Bank/Judea and Samaria (the areas have never been part of an independent entity named Palestine, and were taken over from Jordan) is essentially just hot air because Israel does not want to take on responsibility for millions of Palestinians that would threaten Jewish sovereignty over the area. Nor would they be willing to disenfranchise those Palestinians, because that would legitimately be apartheid and wouldn't be tolerated by the center.

If the international community chooses to push the Jerusalem issue, though, I could very well see an annexation of that area plus several key Jewish regions past the green line, to make that a settled issue.

Let's be clear, though, the "international community" holds very little water in Israel right now, and even less after the EU's drone spying scandal.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It feels like it should have been a military excessive force trial, not a civilian manslaughter trial.

And it should go without saying that any attempt to take this trial international should be met with complete opposition and threats of retaliation against any body that cooperates.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It feels like it should have been a military excessive force trial, not a civilian manslaughter trial.

It was a military trial, not a civilian one.

Huh, missed that. Either way, I do think the charges were excessive.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If Obama and the Palestinians' actual goal was to create a far-right-wing Israel that would never return to the table again and would rule through escalating military force, they could not have planned this month any better.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The UN gave them no wiggle room on this. By turning every Jewish home in eastern Jerusalem into the equivalent of an illegal outpost, the UN gave Israel the choice between total surrender and waiting for the UN to declare Tel Aviv illegally occupied, or holding the line and making clear to the UN that their filthy piece of paper means nothing. They made the right choice.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/228988

It's really well past time for Israel to get tough with UNESCO. Stop acknowledging them as a legitimate branch of the UN and treat them as the enemy entity they are. Deny anyone with UNESCO credentials the authority to do any work in Israel.

Either the UN can rein in their rogue branch, or they can double down. If that's the case, then the UN is the enemy as well and should be treated as such.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It's definitely going to hurt Hotolevy's career. Working in her favor is that it's likely a popular opinion in conservative US quarters, sadly. But she's doing a lot of damage when it comes to Israel's Jewish outreach efforts.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It could have been an indelicate way to state that due to America's lack of a universal draft, the majority of American Jews never see military service. (Same as every group in America) But it couldn't have been said worse, if so.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

No discussion on Israel murdering unarmed protesters and journalists this week? Cool.

Oh, great! You're back! Can't wait for you to start spewing blood libels and demented murder fantasies again!