Environmental Policy Bill of 2007 (user search)
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Author Topic: Environmental Policy Bill of 2007  (Read 9057 times)
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« on: October 24, 2007, 07:54:07 PM »

First things first.  Offered as a friendly amendment: Section 4, Subsection 2, Clause 2, b should read "b.) Multiple-story apartment buildings."  (Spelling error correction.)

Considering the obvious deficiencies of ethanol, I motion to strike Section 1, Clause 3.

I would also motion to strike Section 2.

Maybe more later...

Honestly, I have a problem with just about all of Section 1 except, perhaps, for the CAFE standards (1-1).  Requiring hybrids sounds like a good idea, but honestly, with all the tax breaks we've passed combined with the carbon tax, I'd guess that the number of non-hybrid cars being sold in Atlasia right now are already under 25%.

Further, hybrid technology is likely to be highly outdated by 2021.  We'd be propping up a less earth-friendly technology by legislation.

Ethanol is a fine short term solution to help reduce gas consumption.  Similarly, flex-fuel is good in the short term.  But, just as with the hybrid technology, this is likely to be a less-than-optimal solution by 2020.

I think that eventually, out of necessity, cars will have to move toward an all electric model.  If this is combined with (1) a battery technology capable of achieving ranges of ~300 miles as with a gas powered car, and (2) a fast-charge technology where vehicles need to be plugged in for minutes, rather than hours, and (3) a proliferation of solar cells to ensure that these cars are being powered by renewable sources, we've got a real, lasting solution that gets us out of Middle Eastern affairs, cures our gas addiction, and saves our planet's atmosphere.

This should be cost effective by 2020, but only if the government does not actively work to prevent it.  I fear that's what a good portion of section 1 does.  It's like the Reagan administration passing a bill requiring all cars to have a tape deck standard by 2007.



I agree with Senator Spade on Section 2.  Really, I think that we can move toward quieter snowmobiles to eliminate the main concern of noise pollution.



I don't have any strong objections to Section 3.



I'd like to see Section 4 stricken in its entirity.  I do not support making "regular" light bulbs illegal.  I think the free market is doing a terrific job in making them obsolete, but honestly, in the case of dimmable lights, the technology just isn't there yet.  (As someone who's shopped for and bought dimmable florescents, I can testify to the fact that they suck balls hardcore.)

As for making electric water heaters illegal...how the hell do you think people are going to heat the water for their homes?  There are parts of the country where solar simply is not a workable option, and not every home has access to a natural gas line.  It's just not realistic to make electric heaters illegal at this point.



No problem with Section 5 as written.



Section 6 is ... unrealistic.  I would support a requirement that for every tree cut down, one or more must be planted, not two.
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 11:03:57 PM »

I can agree to strike parts of Section 1 not relating to CAFE standards.

And hopefully the friendly amendment spelling correction too.  Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2007, 02:33:52 PM »

I move that section six be amended as follows...

Section 6: Sustainable Development in Forestry
1. For every tree cut down by any company, co-operative, or individual working in the forestry industry, that company, co-operative, or individual must plant a tree of the same species in the same forest or other woodland environment.

Ah, excellent catch.  Certainly, I support this.
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2007, 07:31:54 AM »

I would like to motion for the adopting of an amendment striking Section 2 from this legislation as a friendly amendment.

Senators shall have 24 hours to object to the adoption of this amendment.

I support removing it, but I doubt you'll be able to get it accepted as friendly.
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2007, 11:38:47 PM »

Aye.  I agree with Verily here: Snowmobiles should be considered in a separate bill.  It seems out of place in this one.
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 07:06:31 PM »

Lord, I wouldn't have even bothered with the damn thing if it was going to get brought up as a vote.

Aye.
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2007, 11:38:09 PM »

Aye.
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 04:20:24 AM »

Because I'm too lazy to check for myself, can someone please restate what the amended copy of the bill is?
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 06:29:27 PM »
« Edited: November 13, 2007, 06:31:29 PM by Mr. Moderate »

I'd like to motion to strike section 3, subsection 1, item 1, which makes incandescent lightbulbs illegal.

A weird world we live in where most recreational drugs are legal, but lightbulbs aren't.



I'd also like to motion to strike all parts of section 3, subsection 2, because outlawing electric water heaters is just not feasible in sections of the country where natural gas pipelines are not available and solar energy is inadequate.

The two are separate amendments, of course.
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 03:22:13 AM »

A weird world we live in where most recreational drugs are legal, but lightbulbs aren't.

Nearly all recreational drugs remain illegal under both federal & regional law (even in the Pacific).

Anyway, this bill DOES NOT BAN LIGHTBULBS.  It bans a certain type of lightbulbs, encouraging use of alternative lightbulbs, a step increasingly supported and being taken by many other Western countries.

Yes, I understand that it only applies to a certain kind of lightbulb, and I still think it's ridiculous.  Like I've said before, if they made a dimmable energy-saving lightbulb that actually worked the way it's supposed to, I'd have them in my condo.
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2007, 05:29:40 AM »

Aye to both.
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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2007, 02:11:17 PM »

Since there has been no new debate in the past 72 hours, I would like to motion for cloture here and (ideally) speed this bill towards final passage.
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2007, 12:15:16 AM »

Aye.
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2007, 05:42:19 PM »

Aye
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2007, 02:04:35 AM »

I take it that the President isn't exactly enthralled with this bill -otherwise it would have been signed by now.  Tongue

So quick to jump to conclusions. I'm more trying to wrap my mind around a car that gets 57 MPG especially when the current mode of transportation gets 15. Smiley

Wrap your mind around plug-in/gas hybrids.  The future is now, but Detroit won't do it on their own without a darn big push...
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2007, 02:18:26 PM »

I take it that the President isn't exactly enthralled with this bill -otherwise it would have been signed by now.  Tongue

So quick to jump to conclusions. I'm more trying to wrap my mind around a car that gets 57 MPG especially when the current mode of transportation gets 15. Smiley

Wrap your mind around plug-in/gas hybrids.  The future is now, but Detroit won't do it on their own without a darn big push...

Well as long as they can make the technology affordable, and doesn't cost $5,000 more than a similar all-gas car, I'm fine with it. I'm sure with standards like this though the car manufacturers will have to develop these affordable and clean technologies.

Well, the senate did pass (and Mr. President did sign) a bill offering up to $6,000 in tax credits to those who purchase one of these next-generation cars rather than an all-gas car, which should cover any initial increased costs for the consumer in the short term.
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