Pence walks out of NFL game in temper tantrum over Kneeling players

[Crumpets]

Good for Pence!

These kneelers are anti-American.  They hate America.  They deserve to experience the negative feedback from the millions they've offended by their behavior.  If their income streams from endorsements all dry up, I wouldn't shed a tear.

Where was all this conservative outrage against political statements on the job when the NYPD turned their backs on de Blasio?

Can't wait until these anti-freedom couch goblins are irrelevant.

The American flag is not the same thing as the mayor of New York City. One is a man, the other is the designated symbol of national unity. Not that I think Fuzzy has any ground to stand on, as I've made clear in the past. He supported a guy who knowingly invited foreign intelligence to attack American citizens, and enjoyed it, on national TV.

The American flag is a symbol of this nation, and kneeling to protest injustice is one of the most American things you can do.

I tend to think that police officers shooting African-Americans in the back is a lot more disrespectful than an abstract act of protest, but expecting the orangutan in the White House (or Fuzzy Bear) to care about the former is clearly futile.

If I knelt in Court when the Bailiff said, 'All Rise!", a Judge could hold me in contempt.  That's because my act would be considered active defiance of the authority of the Court.

While not mandatory, the gesture of NFL football players kneeling is the display of contempt for the United States.  If you don't believe it, ask the kneelers about what they think of America as a nation.

Police officers involved in a shooting go through a legal nightmare.  If they avoid criminal liability, they still face civil liability that threatens the retirement benefits that are the primary reason these guys hang in at a tough job.  The idea that there is an epidemic of police shootings of blacks that are totally unjustified is nonsense.  Nonsense.  That a black person is killed in a police shooting does not make it murder on its face.  The real threat to black lives are the violent acts of remorseless criminals living in predominantly minority neighborhoods.  Why are these kneelers not addressing any aspect of that?

This is one line of argument I just don't get. In sports, kneeling on the field is typically done as a show of solidarity with an injured player - praying (in a sense) for their speedy recovery. I did this in little league, in my soccer team, really all sports teams I've been on. Isn't the message that they're sending by kneeling more one of "we know you're going through a hard time, America, and we're with you"?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Nonsense.  That a black person is killed in a police shooting does not make it murder on its face.  The real threat to black lives are the violent acts of remorseless criminals living in predominantly minority neighborhoods.  Why are these kneelers not addressing any aspect of that?

First, all black people do not live in neighborhoods with remorseless criminals.

Second, those people are prosecuted, convicted, and swiftly jailed. Police officers can boldly kill black (and non-black) citizens and be acquitted just because of some unspoken code.

If you do not understand that then you are willfully ignorant.

Of course all black folks don't live in neighborhoods that are crime ridden, but it is those neighborhoods that are generating a disproportionate amount of the complaints on this issue.

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I highlighted this quote because it demands some proof.  I might well agree to this about Mississippi in 1964.  I would not agree to this about Ferguson, MO, Baltimore, MD, or New York, NY in 2017.

Do the folks who are prosecuted, convicted, and swiftly jailed not deserve to be?  I'm serious; that's a current issue in criminal justice.  

Blacks (and especially young black males) are arrested, convicted, put on probation, incarcerated at higher rates than all other demographics.  This is an uncomfortable fact, and it begs the question as to why this is so.  I'm all for finding that answer out.  I'm certainly not going to deny that there are issues of racial profiling (covering a wide range of topics), poverty rates, and skewed data that are relevant.  I certainly think that racial bias in criminal sentencing exists; there is clear evidence that black defendants are often sentenced more harshly than white defendants in similar circumstances, and this needs to be not just discussed, but remedied.  I certainly believe that the folks in Ferguson, MO (for example) have a legitimate complaint about the system of fines and fees obtained through enforcement of petit crimes and ordinances against minorities that impacts them more harshly.  I'm for talking about all of this, finding solutions for all of this, having REAL justice for everyone.  That's not been the response, though; the response has been a false narrative about killer police officer and silence about the demographics of crime rates.  That's not fair to anyone, and it's intellectually dishonest.  And the kneelers are on the side of intellectual dishonesty.

[publicunofficial]

Fuzzy Bear in 1955:

[HAnnA MArin County]

Those conservative tears sure are salty.

More conservative political correctness. I really don't get their weird obsession with a piece of fabric. Symbolism? Okay, sure. So why then do they not get all triggered and turn into snowflakes when the Confederate flag is displayed? That flag offends a lot of people as well, no matter how "very fine" the people are who worship it and its fallen leaders' monuments with tiki torches and anti-Semitic chants. Can't have it both ways. The very flag that you're getting your panties in a wad about gives those athletes a right to do what they're doing. You all wanting to take that right away from them because it offends you, now that's deplorable.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Those conservative tears sure are salty.

More conservative political correctness. I really don't get their weird obsession with a piece of fabric. Symbolism? Okay, sure. So why then do they not get all triggered and turn into snowflakes when the Confederate flag is displayed? That flag offends a lot of people as well, no matter how "very fine" the people are who worship it and its fallen leaders' monuments with tiki torches and anti-Semitic chants. Can't have it both ways. The very flag that you're getting your panties in a wad about gives those athletes a right to do what they're doing. You all wanting to take that right away from them because it offends you, now that's deplorable.

My issue isn't about anyone's right to kneel, walk out, etc. 

When you kneel during the Anthem because you view America as an inherently racist nation, that's your right.  But that's the statement folks are making in this case.  Don't make that statement and expect me to agree that you love America and wish it well.

This, by the way, is the issue with millions of ordinary Americans, including a certain number of non-white Americans.  They see rich athletes, whom America has been good to, giving a gesture that says "America Sucks!".  And they see folks, with issues that have some legitimacy, taking it out on the wrong people.

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I'm all for the above.  Unconditionally.  But I would also suggest that "respect" involve me getting some and not just giving some, and that my presence is given some regard and not viewed as undeserved.  "Dialogue" means that I get to speak and be listened to as well as listening to others speak.  "Unity" means that we are one nation, whatever our differences; not multiple nations living in a Balkanized state of affairs, and it means all folks (and not just me) being willing to absorb feedback from folks of ALL backgrounds, and not disqualifying me from giving an opinion solely because of MY background.

[BoAtlantis]

Good for Pence!

These kneelers are anti-American.  They hate America.  They deserve to experience the negative feedback from the millions they've offended by their behavior.  If their income streams from endorsements all dry up, I wouldn't shed a tear.

Where was all this conservative outrage against political statements on the job when the NYPD turned their backs on de Blasio?

Can't wait until these anti-freedom couch goblins are irrelevant.

The American flag is not the same thing as the mayor of New York City. One is a man, the other is the designated symbol of national unity. Not that I think Fuzzy has any ground to stand on, as I've made clear in the past. He supported a guy who knowingly invited foreign intelligence to attack American citizens, and enjoyed it, on national TV.

The American flag is a symbol of this nation, and kneeling to protest injustice is one of the most American things you can do.

I tend to think that police officers shooting African-Americans in the back is a lot more disrespectful than an abstract act of protest, but expecting the orangutan in the White House (or Fuzzy Bear) to care about the former is clearly futile.

If I knelt in Court when the Bailiff said, 'All Rise!", a Judge could hold me in contempt.  That's because my act would be considered active defiance of the authority of the Court.

While not mandatory, the gesture of NFL football players kneeling is the display of contempt for the United States.  If you don't believe it, ask the kneelers about what they think of America as a nation.

Police officers involved in a shooting go through a legal nightmare.  If they avoid criminal liability, they still face civil liability that threatens the retirement benefits that are the primary reason these guys hang in at a tough job.  The idea that there is an epidemic of police shootings of blacks that are totally unjustified is nonsense.  Nonsense.  That a black person is killed in a police shooting does not make it murder on its face.  The real threat to black lives are the violent acts of remorseless criminals living in predominantly minority neighborhoods.  Why are these kneelers not addressing any aspect of that?

This isn't North Korea where not pledging the allegiance or standing up for the flag should be considered a display of contempt, and even worse, punishable by extreme measures unless the NFL is acting in the interest of their business. I do not need to stand up during the anthem to show love for the country. Most advanced world do not play the anthem before every sporting event. Other countries use other measures for unity.  

What have you or critics done to show patriotism for America? Instead of rebuking them, a true patriot would reach out to them to help their cause with civility, instead of resorting to boycott or insults or threats.

Rebuking them does not make you a patriot, just a partisan disguised as a nationalist proudly barking as a patriot. If anything, it makes you or other critics look less patriotic than the athletes.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Pence has a right to protest by leaving
The players have a right to protest by kneeling
Welcome to America. Freedom of expression for all.

Now can we please stop talking about the damn NFL already?

There are real issues facing this country and this is a garbage non issue.

In many way the whole Trump candidacy and presidency was and is a garbage non-issue. And yet here we are, with the whole world swaying at the twit's every Tweet. He's loving that part of it.

America face a great many dire challenges right now. Trump and his antics are a symptom and a distraction. Do you have any suggestions on how we, as individuals can change things for the better?

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

The first German football soccer team - Hertha BSC - was kneeling before the kickoff of today's match in order to declare their solidarity with the victims of police violence and racial discrimination in the USA.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Good for Pence!

These kneelers are anti-American.  They hate America.  They deserve to experience the negative feedback from the millions they've offended by their behavior.  If their income streams from endorsements all dry up, I wouldn't shed a tear.

Where was all this conservative outrage against political statements on the job when the NYPD turned their backs on de Blasio?

Can't wait until these anti-freedom couch goblins are irrelevant.

The American flag is not the same thing as the mayor of New York City. One is a man, the other is the designated symbol of national unity. Not that I think Fuzzy has any ground to stand on, as I've made clear in the past. He supported a guy who knowingly invited foreign intelligence to attack American citizens, and enjoyed it, on national TV.

The American flag is a symbol of this nation, and kneeling to protest injustice is one of the most American things you can do.

I tend to think that police officers shooting African-Americans in the back is a lot more disrespectful than an abstract act of protest, but expecting the orangutan in the White House (or Fuzzy Bear) to care about the former is clearly futile.

If I knelt in Court when the Bailiff said, 'All Rise!", a Judge could hold me in contempt.  That's because my act would be considered active defiance of the authority of the Court.

While not mandatory, the gesture of NFL football players kneeling is the display of contempt for the United States.  If you don't believe it, ask the kneelers about what they think of America as a nation.

Police officers involved in a shooting go through a legal nightmare.  If they avoid criminal liability, they still face civil liability that threatens the retirement benefits that are the primary reason these guys hang in at a tough job.  The idea that there is an epidemic of police shootings of blacks that are totally unjustified is nonsense.  Nonsense.  That a black person is killed in a police shooting does not make it murder on its face.  The real threat to black lives are the violent acts of remorseless criminals living in predominantly minority neighborhoods.  Why are these kneelers not addressing any aspect of that?

This isn't North Korea where not pledging the allegiance or standing up for the flag should be considered a display of contempt, and even worse, punishable by extreme measures unless the NFL is acting in the interest of their business. I do not need to stand up during the anthem to show love for the country. Most advanced world do not play the anthem before every sporting event. Other countries use other measures for unity.  

What have you or critics done to show patriotism for America? Instead of rebuking them, a true patriot would reach out to them to help their cause with civility, instead of resorting to boycott or insults or threats.

Rebuking them does not make you a patriot, just a partisan disguised as a nationalist proudly barking as a patriot. If anything, it makes you or other critics look less patriotic than the athletes.

If true, your rant is no better.  It's just a leftist Democrat partisan rant.

I'm all for a discussion of the criminal justice issues these players claim to be raising by kneeling.  But such a discussion needs to include ALL aspects of this issue.  And a discussion requires folks to listen to input that doesn't necessarily reinforce their point of view.  I'm game for this.  I wonder if the kneelers and their supporters are.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The first German football soccer team - Hertha BSC - was kneeling before the kickoff of today's match in order to declare their solidarity with the victims of police violence and racial discrimination in the USA.

These German jokers can kneel all day as far as I'm concerned.

[Green Line]

The first German football soccer team - Hertha BSC - was kneeling before the kickoff of today's match in order to declare their solidarity with the victims of police violence and racial discrimination in the USA.

Hilarious.