$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes, but the question in what areas most of the 1.5 trillion is coming from. If it is coming from Income/Dividends/Capital Gains then this tax plan would be fiscally irresponsible, but if its coming from cutting taxes on Businesses then it is not fiscally irresponsible as you will get that lost revenue back in economic growth.  

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes, but the question in what areas most of the 1.5 trillion is coming from. If it is coming from Income/Dividends/Capital Gains then this tax plan would be fiscally irresponsible, but if its coming from cutting taxes on Businesses then it is not fiscally irresponsible as you will get that lost revenue back in economic growth.  

This is a myth. Kansas is the prime example.

Yes cause Kansas is not a good state to do businesses in the first place and they dramatically cut income taxes which has a far different affect than cutting corporate taxes. Lastly state taxes are already low compared to federal taxes so according to the Laffer Curve that would cause you to lose revenue.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The 1980s tax cuts did create economic growth , and the reason for the deficits were not cause of the tax cuts but because of the spending increases .


Here look at the total tax revenue per year and look at the 1980s : https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762 . It's clear that it was the increas in spending what caused the deficits not the tax cuts . Also the economy did grow from 1986 -1990 just look at the increase in revenue during those years .

Lastly on the increase in revenue over a decade :


In the 1980s revenue went up from 517 billion to  991 billion which is an increase of 91.68 percent

In 1990s revenue went up from 1.03 trillion to 1.82 trillion which is an increase of 79 percent , and even if you include 2000 numbers tax revenue went up by 97.08 percent .


That means despite the tech boom of the 1990s the increase of revenue was barely more then the increase in the 1980s and that is if you include the 2000 numbers .

[OSR stands with Israel]

The 1980s tax cuts did create economic growth , and the reason for the deficits were not cause of the tax cuts but because of the spending increases .


Here look at the total tax revenue per year and look at the 1980s : https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762 . It's clear that it was the increas in spending what caused the deficits not the tax cuts . Also the economy did grow from 1986 -1990 just look at the increase in revenue during those years .

Lastly on the increase in revenue over a decade :


In the 1980s revenue went up from 517 billion to  991 billion which is an increase of 91.68 percent

In 1990s revenue went up from 1.03 trillion to 1.82 trillion which is an increase of 79 percent , and even if you include 2000 numbers tax revenue went up by 97.08 percent .


That means despite the tech boom of the 1990s the increase of revenue was barely more then the increase in the 1980s and that is if you include the 2000 numbers .

I suppose you don't want to talk about how the economy was doing when the Bush tax cuts fully took effect circa 2008-2010.

Lmao the tax cuts weren't why economic crash happened, it was the repeal of glass stegall and keeping interest rates artificially low throught the 2000s.


Also the deficits under Bush were mainly for these two things : Iraq War , and more than doubling military spending in the 2000s(https://www.statista.com/statistics/272473/us-military-spending-from-2000-to-2012/).


The budget deficit in 2006 and 2007(years which the tax cuts had been fully implemented by ) were 248 billion and 161 billion and without the Iraq war and if you had a slight instead of a massive increase in military spending the budget would have been balenced .

[OSR stands with Israel]

I would put a rule though that makes business which have less then 5 employees pay taxes at the income level. For Business which have more then 5 employees they should pay at the Small Business/Corporate Level

[OSR stands with Israel]

I suppose you don't want to talk about how the economy was doing when the Bush tax cuts fully took effect circa 2008-2010.

This is at least the second time in the last couple weeks you have tried to connect the Bush tax cuts to the Financial Crisis. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about because those are totally unrelated to each other. Stop.

The Bush Tax cuts were sold as an economic stimulus, which was obviously an epic fail.

It was sold as an economic stimulus to the early 2000s recession , which indeed it was . The 2008 crash still would have happened without the tax cuts , so no the tax cuts and the crash are not related.

[OSR stands with Israel]

1.5 Trillion over 10 years is not that much(150 billion a year) , if you do these things


1. Cut Military Spending from a projected 652 billion(in 2018) to 550 billion (and spend half that money on infrastructure, and keep the rest to pay for the tax cut)  :

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_spending

2. Impose a 25% wealth tax on offshore tax havens in year one, and in the subsequent years tax off shore havens at a higher rate than the regular rate.

3. End Pork Barrell Spending

This is without taking into account economic growth over the next 10 years , so if you do these 3 things you likely will have a budget surplus by the end of the decade.




Also without the massive increases in military spending under the Bush years, we would have had a surplus in 2007 , if it wasnt for the massive increases in military spending in the Bush years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/272473/us-military-spending-from-2000-to-2012/


The deficit was smaller than the increases in military spending(from 2000-2007) in 2007
 

[OSR stands with Israel]

Remove tax cuts, insert more DoD funding.  Compromise, everyone happy then.

Of course not , as I support doing the opposite.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Do people not get that small business tax rate also will go dramatically done as well .

[OSR stands with Israel]

Won’t be on for long, but I thought I should note that if a 5% VAT would raise $1.8 trillion(which I saw in one source), a 17.5% VAT would raise $6.2 trillion, and even a 10% VAT would raise $3.6 trillion. At that rate, surely some way could be found to balance the budget.

I think cutting military spending , and taxing overseas havens would be better.

[OSR stands with Israel]

So at this point Rand Paul has become even more of a right winger than Cruz.

[OSR stands with Israel]

1.5 million over the next 10 years is not that big of a cut and can easily be made up.


-Taxing overseas havens ,including a one time wealth tax on those havens

- Cutting 70 billion dollars in military spending

[OSR stands with Israel]

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2017/10/23/GOP-Eyes-Million-Dollar-Tax-Bracket

[OSR stands with Israel]

I would fully support it if they added this :

Taxing overseas havens

[OSR stands with Israel]

So they are just punishing Milenials and blue states.....Yep party of Trump alright

The standard deduction will double,


People who make  90k or more their  rate would be reduced from 25 percent on incomes between 38k-90k down to 12 percent  .

[OSR stands with Israel]

Overall I support this tax plan

[OSR stands with Israel]

I suspect that after a huge pushback from special interests, blue state Republicans and the public, they will pass some sort of shell "tax reform" just to say they did something for the midterms.

This tax plan cuts taxes on everyone making one million dollars or less so I dont see why there would be pushback by the public on this plan .

[OSR stands with Israel]

Also the standard deduction will double , so that will more than make up for removing the student loan deduction .

[OSR stands with Israel]

This bill doesn't look like some giant gift to the rich to me.

Highest bracket remains unchanged, people in large, expensive homes paying more, among other things.

Outside of estate tax repeal (which at end of day is not going to be repealed), I'm not seeing any egregious "trickle down economics", as our progressive forum-mates like to say.

The highest tax bracket has been changed. Those making $400,000 to $999,000 get a cut to 35% from the 39.6% top bracket.

Ultimately, I am still inclined to oppose this since it increases the deficit and increases the bottom tax bracket from 10 percent to 12 percent (new standard deduction only partially compensates for it). That being said, if Graham's minimum wage increase ends up being part of the final product, I may be willing to support it.

But the standard deduction doubles meaning that people who currently make between 12k-24k will have their tax rate drop from 10% to 0%.


For middle class families this would be a huge tax rate as their tax rate would drop from 25%(which is the current bracket for people who's taxable income is in between 37,950 - 91,900) all the way down to 12%.



 

[OSR stands with Israel]

Again 1.5 trillion over the next 10 years can easily be made up in spending cuts.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Again 1.5 trillion over the next 10 years can easily be made up in spending cuts.

Trusting politicians to cut spending at some point down the road is always a bad idea.

then its not this tax plan what made the deficit larger, it was politicians who refused to cut spending.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Don't like the implications on the deficit probably getting bigger but.....

do like the lower class tax cuts I would benefit from?

Guess I'm thinking more like the average voter on that 2nd one

same , but I also feel this Tax Cut will really help the economy.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Don't like the implications on the deficit probably getting bigger but.....

do like the lower class tax cuts I would benefit from?

Guess I'm thinking more like the average voter on that 2nd one

What lower class tax cuts?  Even the middle class tax cuts in this proposal are puny in comparison to the largess for the upper class.

Are you kidding me


If your taxable income is in between 38k-90k your tax rate will drop from 25% all the way down to 12% , and the rich do not get a tax cut(people making a million or more tax rate will still be 39.6%)

[OSR stands with Israel]

Don't like the implications on the deficit probably getting bigger but.....

do like the lower class tax cuts I would benefit from?

Guess I'm thinking more like the average voter on that 2nd one

What lower class tax cuts?  Even the middle class tax cuts in this proposal are puny in comparison to the largess for the upper class.

Are you kidding me


If your taxable income is in between 38k-90k your tax rate will drop from 25% all the way down to 12% , and the rich do not get a tax cut(people making a million or more tax rate will still be 39.6%)

You're forgetting, perhaps purposefully, the elimination of the estate tax and, and the cut to 25% or less in taxes on pass through income such as that Trump gets from his business.

Why should small businesses pay taxes at the income level, that makes no sense. We need more small businesses not less.

[OSR stands with Israel]

My dad lives in Portland ,has an upper middle class job ,and this tax plan would reduce my dad's taxes .