Howard Dean 2008

[cwelsch]

Dean's too forward to win.  He says what he thinks and steps on everybody's toes.  Very McCain.

[Erc]

Dean was compromised the minute he joined the establishment, which he did when he strongly backed the Kerry campaign.

He has no future.

He supported Kerry as part of the Anybody But Bush Bandwagon, not because of any particular fondness for Kerry.  Woulda been the same after Lucky the Dog's acceptance speech in Boston...

[angus]

If Howard Dean wins the nomination, my colours will no longer be 'Red'!

I want to see a Democrat in power not tooting from the fringe!

Dave

he's actually not fringe.  He's fairly centrist, as far as I can tell.  He's a budget balancer, not a tax-and-spend liberal.  Not unlike Bubba.  His problem with the Right is that he's a little too anti-war, which makes him come off as unpatriotic.

My beef with him is that he comes off as a nut.  That's not the same as tooting from the fringe, though.  It's just that he's constantly making verbal gaffes, and not the silly Bushism variety either, but genuine misstatements.  Actually I find Bush's self-effacing, middle-finger poking sense of humor endearing.  There's nothing endearing about Howard Scream.  I know the "liberal media" like to make him out to be further left than he is, but let's be honest, he's hardly Fringe.  Look up his record as a fiscal conservative as Vermont Governor.  Makes these republicans look like big liberal spenders by comparison.  Where's RightWingNut when you need him?  Help me out here, man.

[Ben.]

If Howard Dean wins the nomination, my colours will no longer be 'Red'!

I want to see a Democrat in power not tooting from the fringe!

Dave

he's actually not fringe.  He's fairly centrist, as far as I can tell.  He's a budget balancer, not a tax-and-spend liberal.  Not unlike Bubba.  His problem with the Right is that he's a little too anti-war, which makes him come off as unpatriotic.

My beef with him is that he comes off as a nut.  That's not the same as tooting from the fringe, though.  It's just that he's constantly making verbal gaffes, and not the silly Bushism variety either, but genuine misstatements.  Actually I find Bush's self-effacing, middle-finger poking sense of humor endearing.  There's nothing endearing about Howard Scream.  I know the "liberal media" like to make him out to be further left than he is, but let's be honest, he's hardly Fringe.  Look up his record as a fiscal conservative as Vermont Governor.  Makes these republicans look like big liberal spenders by comparison.  Where's RightWingNut when you need him?  Help me out here, man.

He's also militantly liberal on social issues and very secular... I can't stand him because he doesn't consider me, or any other moderate, a democrat and while he claims to espouse tolerance he is completely intolerant of any moderates within the party… at the same time he doesn’t even belong on the left of the party, he started out as very moderate on the economic side of things etc… but as the primaries wore on he drifted further and further to the left, by the time of Iowa people where already getting worried. If he actually believed in what he did as Governor he could have been a very good candidate and while he wouldn’t have swept to the lead like he did he would have been in contention as much as Edwards or Kerry by the time of Iowa… but he was too inept and too spineless to realise this.         

[angus]

you make a good point ben.  in addition to being perceived as a nut and as unpatriotic, he comes across as spinless, since he thought that bending toward the left he could secure the nomination (more precisely, he allowed the media to portray him that way).  This backfired.  You also point out his intolerance of those who disagree with him.  While this isn't fringe, it's unbecoming.  Clearly, neither the republicans in this forum, nor, for the most part, the democrats, want him to be the candidate, albeit for different reasons.  I don't think you have to worry about your party nominating him, unless, as has been pointed out, the war turns so sour that a flaming antiwar candidate has such appeal among single-issue voters in IA and NH that they manage a coup.  I think it's unlikely.  There will be a new face on both parties next time, and it's a long way off ...

[Ben.]

There will be a new face on both parties next time, and it's a long way off ...

Agreed, however i think the primary process will be longer with a liberal vs. moderate fight developing at this stage Bayh/Rendell/Warner vs. Feingold/Dean/Clinton seems like the way it will probably go… that said I’d have thought that neither Warner or Dean will run, Warner because he will either have only just been elected Senator or because he will be eyeing a Senate run in 2008 and Dean… well who knows with Dean… if he gets the nomination Bayh might pick Warner as his Vp though folks like Rendell, Nelson (Bill), Pryor, Lincoln could all be good choices for him. 

[angus]

rendell is a good choice.  I'll consider voting for rendell, depending on who else is running against him.

[Democratic Hawk]

There will be a new face on both parties next time, and it's a long way off ...

Agreed, however i think the primary process will be longer with a liberal vs. moderate fight developing at this stage Bayh/Rendell/Warner vs. Feingold/Dean/Clinton seems like the way it will probably go… that said I’d have thought that neither Warner or Dean will run, Warner because he will either have only just been elected Senator or because he will be eyeing a Senate run in 2008 and Dean… well who knows with Dean… if he gets the nomination Bayh might pick Warner as his Vp though folks like Rendell, Nelson (Bill), Pryor, Lincoln could all be good choices for him. 

I think the Democratic primaries will be competitive with about five or six contenders to begin with. However, I think a leading moderate and a leading liberal will emerge fairly quickly as the two front runners. I believe that Democrats will ur to a pragmatics (i.e. "electability") rather than ideology (i.e "litmus test")

I know its early days but the Democrats best chance of victory is with a moderate/centrist rather than a liberal.

The moderate vote favoured Kerry over Bush but was not sufficient enough to offset his advantage among conservatives, who decisively outnumber liberals among the electorate

Dave

[CARLHAYDEN]

Actually, except for the crazy opposition to the war in Iraq, Dean was NOT as left-wing as Kerry.

Kerry carefully steered his campaign AWAY from his record in congress.

[Democratic Hawk]

Actually, except for the crazy opposition to the war in Iraq, Dean was NOT as left-wing as Kerry.

Kerry carefully steered his campaign AWAY from his record in congress.

Even though Dean may (bar Iraq) be not as left as Kerry, he would be a disastrous candidate, especially if pitted against a moderate Republican

Dave

[Red Button]

Dean is crazy.  Edwards for President, 2008!

[YRABNNRM]

Dean is crazy.  Edwards for President, 2008!

Dean may be crazy but atleast he's been successful....unlike a certain one term senator

[Red Button]

Even I could be Governor of Vermont