How would you vote ...

[Franzl]

Conscription is a disgrace to
any free and democratic society. It's very authoritarian to just steal 6 months of someone's life like that.

I've had my experiences with this BS...and I've fought them until the very end in Germany to avoid service. Looks like it was successful, as it seems unlikely that people will be involuntarily called in any more, even if the actual abolition is in July.

[Franzl]

I'd probably abstain as I dislike the idea of a draft, but would be very concerned about the civil service disappearing.

Good to see you like slavery. That's not even hyperbole...it's slavery.


Imagine what kind of money I've paid for my legal representation. It's not funny.

[Franzl]

Women shouldn't be allowed to vote in the referendum. They don't have to pay lawyers 2000€ to avoid going into slavery.

[Franzl]

I don't care about those organizations. If they need more workers, then they need to pay market based wages that people will voluntarily agree to.

[Franzl]

I'm glad Germany never considered the mandatory Civil Service as an alternative. I was afraid that might be the "compromise", but it appears Guttenberg did a great job at convincing the government he was right and that it was the right thing to do for everyone involved.

Shame I wasn't born a year or so later, though...I could have saved a lot of time and money.

[Franzl]

Slaves weren't paid wages. And could be corporally punished.

You're forced (if you don't have a good lawyer like I do) to perform
hard work against your will. That is a form of slavery.

[Franzl]

Well I'm glad you enjoyed your "waste of time". I'm happy I won't be subject to the humiliation of earning 2€/h for a job that I never wanted.

[Franzl]

In both cases, whether as a condition for welfare benefits or simply having a job you hate....You're still free to refuse without fear of legal prosecution.

I know it's not practical....but it's a big big difference in principle.

[Franzl]

Saying no to the draft and yes to the mandatory social year is the ultimate moderate hero position.

[Franzl]

Any chance of the government breaking over this?

At any rate, congratluations for recognizing what the correct thing to do is....

[Franzl]

What the hell, they still have conscription in Austria ?

Horrendous. Abolish it immediately.

We still do in Germany as well......until the 1st of July officially

[Franzl]

For anyone who can read German (Franzl, Lewis etc.) here's a good article about the issue:

Weg mit der Wehrpflicht! Warum das Bundesheer völlig neu definiert gehört.

Good article, BTW.

[Franzl]

No, Antonio....I have a good lawyer. I didn't do military service

[Franzl]

No, Antonio....I have a good lawyer. I didn't do military service

You dirty privileged...

Seriously though, I would also probably have tried any possible way to escape it.

Yeah it's pretty crazy, the way it works in Germany right now. Only about 50% of 18-year olds are declared "medically fit" to serve......and of those, only about 50% ever actually get a letter telling them to report for duty.

Unfortunately, I was unlucky on both

[Franzl]

98% like slave labor?

Why do so many Austrians hate freedom?

[Franzl]

And there's probably also the "if I had to do it when I was young and it didn't kill me, the young people of today should have to do it as well"-mentality ...

You know...it's hard to be more freedom hating than that

[Franzl]

Any idea when (if) such a referendum will be happening?

[Franzl]

Or: Do you want to keep the draft?

[Franzl]

Glad we don't do referenda (federally at least) in Germany...

[Franzl]

How nice for the poor slaves still forced to serve until then.

[Franzl]

Mandatory civil service,abolish that BS called draft.

How about real freedom and nothing mandatory?

[Franzl]

Personally I think that most draftees deserve it. Clever people don't get drafted.

So punish the people that are too dumb/honest/uninformed by hauling them out of their 2nd semester at university or similar unpleasent situations?

It's often said in jest, but serious question: Why do you hate freedom?

[Franzl]

Well, clever people don't get stuck in the slums either, or so I am told.

Haha....I'd generally think you're joking, but I'm worried you might not be

Seriously, there is a rather significant difference between what private individuals do with their lives and what horrors (such as slave-like conscription and civil service) governments inflict on young men.

[Franzl]

Watching today's youth I am pretty convinced that civil service could only improve their mindset.

Typical. You think something is good for someone else and you want to force people to act according to your views. Is it such an awful thing to let people decide for themselves what's good for them without the state dictating it?

[Franzl]

Freedom haters.