Lumine/Rpryor for President/Vice-President (Epilogue)

[Lumine]

Note: Due to the past Campaign Thread being so openly hijacked and derailed I'll be starting a new one, I'll quote the speeches of the campaign on this one and then carry on from there.

Lumine for President:

A New Dawn for Atlasia

Former President Lumine announces his third presidential campaign at a rally in San Francisco

Press Release: Following significant reflexion and the urging of several Atlasians to join the presidential race, former President Lumine announced today that he was indeed seeking the White House to be elected to a second full-term, more than three years after his first term. He is to run as an independent, separate from both Labor and the Federalists.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Lumine.

[Lumine]

Campaign Info:

Endorsements:

Former Vice-President Rpryor
Senator Spiral
Former Assemblyman Poirot
Former Senator Cris
Former Senator Talleyrand
Lt. Gov. kyc0705
Former Justice Oakvale
Former GM Simfan
Senator Siren (2nd preference)
Mr. CMB222
Mr. SamTilden2020
Mr. wxtransit

[Lumine]

Yes, I complain about a move to the Left

Former President Lumine offers criticism of the current direction of the Atlasian center-right

Press Release: Deciding to answer to the latest claims by Speaker Yankee, former President Lumine spoke on further detail on his concerns regarding the Federalist Party leadership.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Lumine]

Why Unicameralism Matters

Press Release:Former President Lumine explained today one of his planks for Game Reform, outlining the need for a Unicameral System with both regional and at-large Senators like in the past:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Lumine]

Vice-Presidential Announcement

Press Release:Former President Lumine announced his running mate today at a rally in Los Angeles, unveiling as well his new campaign banner:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Greetings, fellow Atlasians! Over the past few weeks, I have heard the siren call of Nyman in my heart and head, calling me to return to my adopted hometown. My dear friend Oakvale, a former candidate for President, inspired me and many other Atlasians to fight for what we believe in. Even though he has left the race, Oakvale's message of radical change has not died out. We need to shake up the Atlasian system.

We cannot trust our incumbent President. Not only did she vote for Jill Stein, but she has stated a variety of different viewpoints on issues over the last year. Socialist one day, conservative the next. When Simfan questioned if our President's "political transformation had less to do with ideological principles and more to do with her personal support for former president DFW," he had hit the nail on the head. When he admits that he is unsure if she is a crypto-leftist or a left-leaning libertarian, this should frighten all of us. When Labourite supreme Adam Griffin admits that fhtagn's position as a Federalist is due to getting her feelings hurt, this should scare any actual conservative. When leading statesmen have all agreed that there are doubts to the President's actual record of "conservatism." However, that truly doesn't matter.

Whether it's fhtagn or Harry Truman, we will continue to walk the same simple path we've been on for the last few months. Low activity, boring debates, and general small squabbles. If we're going to continue to walk the safe path, then we need a safe pair of hands like Truman. But we shouldn't walk that safe path, the path that continues the downward spiral we've been in as a nation. It's time to shake things up.

That's why I'm running for Vice President with Lumine. Not only is he a safe pair of hands and a respected statesman, but he has the ideas and disposition for change that none of his opponents have. Not only do we need to take a good look at our constitution, but we need to make sweeping policy changes, both foreign and domestic. We need to stand up for those Atlasians who feel disenfranchised by backroom dealings, IRC cabals, and thoughts of "we've always done it that way." There needs to be an alternative to this one-and-a-half party system we have running. That's why I'm here today. It's time for a new dawn for Atlasia and I'm excited to help lead it in.

[Lumine]

A Strong Defense Policy

Press Release: Former President Lumine spoke today about his plans for defense policy, noting the need to achieve a quick end to the War in Korea and raise the defense budget:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Lumine]

Fiscal Responsibility

Press Release: Former President Lumine spoke today about his beliefs on fiscal responsibility, citing three guiding principles for the upcoming budget

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Lumine]

The Campaign Moves On

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The Lumine Campaign is grateful to The Nyman Questioner for its latest editorial, as it shares several of the concerns posed there despite a few disagreements. We believe there is a prevalent "consensus" that far from leading us to productive bipartisanship is doing active harm to the game as both main parties grow closer and closer (and we suspect that it takes place against the actual desires of many voters). In the meantime, we continue to speak up on our platform and our belief that Atlasia must move in a different direction to achieve what we call "A New Dawn".

PMRC/Atlasian Post Poll: October Presidential Election:
Of the following candidates, who would you vote for if the Presidential election was held today?

PM Harry S Truman (L-ND): 35.1%
Pres. Fhtagn (F-ME): 32.4%
Fmr. Pres. Lumine (I-UT): 27%
Other: 5.4%

We are also very thrilled by the latest PMRC/Atlasian Post poll, which places us in a close third with 27% and right on the President's heels. We realize that polling tends to be not very reliable in Atlasia, but believe it shows a trend of significant support for this campaign which we hope will translate into a very positive result come October.

[Lumine]

Statement on North Korea / Ukraine

Ukraine: The news coming out of Ukraine continue to deeply distress me. Not only because of the blatant repression of the Russian Government against Ukrainian protesters in the Crimea, but also because of the evident acts of pro-Russian terrorism at Kiev. My thoughts and my prayers go to President Poroshenko and the people of Ukraine, which are now more than ever threatened by Russian aggression and potential expansion after the reckless lifting of Atlasian sanctions on Russia. I deeply regret to see a country which has grown more and more as a potential adversary only being emboldened further.

North Korea: Yet another attack on Guam, and more Atlasian lives lost (almost 2000!) as any dither and refuse to come to terms with reality. Even more concerning, we stand at the brink with the Atlasian-Chinese deal still on debate on the Senate and contradicting views on reports on what exactly will China do. Understandable as it is that common citizens like myself not have access to the full intelligence, it doesn't seem like Congress has been appropriately briefed, which is a serious concern. My biggest regret is that shortsightedness and incompetence have led us to such a foreign policy crisis, sound to be bound by a treaty which irreparably harms our standing, economy and foreign policy on behalf of the foreign policy debacle we face.

When will we learn that foreign policy has its serious consecuences?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You know we kind of passed a major bill that got rid of Medicaid and replaced Medicare with a system that is aimed at re-consolidating the siloed healthcare market, opening up the potential for competition and focusing subsequent energies in terms of both regional and federal action primarily at dealing with healthcare inflation (be it with changes on drugs, healthcare delivery etc).

Considering that entitlements are the primary drivers of the deficit, and healthcare inflation is (along with the aging population) the primary driver of cost of what was Medicare and Medicaid, I would say we have done quite a lot more to address our long term deficit problem in doing so. More so then cutting waste fraud and abuse or some freeze on spending that then excludes 1, 2 and 3 pet projects, and the simple fact that it had Labor support (largely because we didn't attempt to accrue short term savings at the expense of long term costs by denying preventative care now like RL Republicans always want to do), while indeed facilitating this ridiculous talking point on echo-chamber consensus obviously, does nothing to negate that fact.

As for your defense spending increase, while acknowledging the need for a strong defense, considering you start off about $500 billion in the hole, further digging it deeper before then addressing it seems to ignore the fact that the biggest things the Federal budget is spent on is entitlements, defense and interest on the mounting debt.

And as for the Budget situation I would once again point out that last budget Atlasia had was the RL FY2016 Spending Agreement (or whatever the RL congress calls these things now), inherited with the reset and which expired on September 30, 2016. The means you had about 3 months after taking office as Vice President to lead efforts at creating an Atlasian budget, that perhaps would have pushed some reality into the thinking of subsequent congresses when spending money.

But you do have a point about the situation now, that is why the President, myself and Representative Rfayette are pushing to demand that the Carbon Tax bill (while in my view a horrible idea yes) at least be used to fund the recently passed Green Energy Subsidies rather than using it for another spending item.

[Lumine]

My friend, you certainly seem determined to be a permanent presence on this thread whenever I make a statement, and if you'll allow a compliment on my behalf, it's been rather fun so far!

I don't mind stating health care reform was a step in the right direction, just as I don't mind pointing out you seem to be under the impression I consider any bipartisan initiative to be part of my idea of "echo-chamber consensus", which is far from anything I've stated (if anything, I've taken the time to point our bipartisan per se is not the problem). If you want my congratulations on taking a step towards fiscal responsibility on this particular matter, you only need to ask them and I'll be pleased to oblige, I don't think it was a bad move. But do keep in mind Health Care is one of the few issues which has seen a more active debate, and even then it hasn't been a very contentious one lately.

Yes, well, everyone seems to acknowledge the "need for a strong defence" and "a reasonable foreign policy" until we suddenly bomb North Korea, sign terms of surrender to China and Russia, unreasonably suggest we're not at war when we are or end up caving to the idea that defense is the immediate area to make cuts on (that's not a judgement on you, Yankee, just a general thought on what I've seen lately). Considering the harm done to our navy, to Guam and its military base, the costs of the war and the contingent we will deploy in North Korea (I really hope the War Powers Act had been invoked sooner), those seem to me like pretty convicing regions as to why an increase is actually necessary this year. And since China and Russia are about to be given free reign on a matter of issues, it is even more pressing to count on better defensive and offensive capabilities.

As for the Vice-Presidency, it seems it will be your obligatory argument that since I didn't do "X" as Vice-President (even though the office was about as constitutionally vague as it comes) my argument is invalid, even when it was not my particular duty to do a certain thing. Having said that, I did admit earlier that was one of my most unsuccessful times in office (in all certainty the most), so while I refuse to accept this particular argument of yours, yes, I could and should have done more as Vice-President in that particular time. I hope I get to correct that mistake most actively if elected President.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well Lumine, as someone who has long noted how we dropped the ball in protecting you against Adam, Jambles and assorted crew, I was under the impression that you would at least appreciate that we are now longer going to tolerate attacks on a Federalist President, without a vigorous defense of said President.

While this does nothing to make up for our inability to defend you against those people, I would you hope that you can respect us for trying to address that situation going forward. As you have been in that situation before and had the world resting on your shoulders naturally you can understand why it helps to have people who will stick up for you against attacks.

That being said I think our interests do align well on matters of fiscal responsibility, all attacks on echo chamber consensus aside, there is a big fight in that Carbon tax bill thread trying to get Laborites to come to reality on spending matters and I would welcome you to contribute in aiding our efforts by posting in that thread about the serious matter regarding the deficit and the need to not pass up an opportunity to fund something.

Ironically, I asked the Carbon tax to be kept separate so we could have a vigorous debate on the merits of said program, ie more differences less echo chamber. However in so doing, the discussion about linking it to funding the Green Energy Subsidies was lost on the members of the Senate and house. So in trying to address one problem (before all these attacks about echo-chamber consensus started occurring even, I would note), I seem to have inadvertently created an opportunity for Labor to spend more money and fund less. Ironically in that case, echo-chamber consensus would have been far more favorable towards the deficit situation.

[Lumine]

If you want me to be honest, I would actually appreciate it more if the President in question wasn't parachuted into the White House with some questionable views and if we weren't in the middle of a massive foreign policy disaster caused by a Federalist White House (you have no idea how much it hurts to me that this was allowed to happen under a President from the center-right), but yes, Yankee, I do sincerely congratulate you on doing your best to stand up for the President.

I would expect nothing less from a devoted and committed Party Chairman, and the President has my envy for having a devoted knight at her service.

I hope our interests on fiscal responsibility will indeed align, I think there is an important choice ahead of us and I will be the first to be delighted if the Federalist Party takes up a firm banner of "coming to reality" on fiscal matters, as you eloquently put it. I will be pleased to defend the cause of responsibility before Congress if necessary, elected or not.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As for the Vice-Presidency, it seems it will be your obligatory argument that since I didn't do "X" as Vice-President (even though the office was about as constitutionally vague as it comes) my argument is invalid, even when it was not my particular duty to do a certain thing. Having said that, I did admit earlier that was one of my most unsuccessful times in office (in all certainty the most), so while I refuse to accept this particular argument of yours, yes, I could and should have done more as Vice-President in that particular time. I hope I get to correct that mistake most actively if elected President.

Actually the office wasn't constitutionally vague at all. The Constitution clearly establishes it as President of Congress with the task of keeping the Trains moving between the Senate and the House. Which I respect that you disagree with, but it leads me to ask what alternative would be preferable? In the past VP's have served double duty as cabinet officers. And Vice Presidents have taken a lead role in important projects and one of them certainly could have been the budget. I am not saying your job was to become SoIA, I am saying you could have knocked some heads together to get things done.

It think it is invalid to accuse this President of fiscal irresponsibility, considering she has engaged in Congressional debates about it, she signed the Budget Process & Control Act, and is taking a lead role in trying to get that addressed along with all the billion other things that her predecessors dumped on her incomplete like the FRR (which is now before Congress I would note).

No one is saying your arguments are all invalid, but it is pretty unfair and invalid to call her irresponsible on fiscal issues when she is trying to get the job done against a backdrop of being one of those who was in a potential position to do something a year ago and didn't.

You cannot call yourself an outsider when you are a former Vice President who served within the past year and acknowledges being inactive in that role with "I wish I was more active and hope to be more active as President".

Activity is the only thing that makes your less establishment than I am.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If you want me to be honest, I would actually appreciate it more if the President in question wasn't parachuted into the White House with some questionable views and if we weren't in the middle of a massive foreign policy disaster caused by a Federalist White House (you have no idea how much it hurts to me that this was allowed to happen under a President from the center-right), but yes, Yankee, I do sincerely congratulate you on doing your best to stand up for the President.

Hurts you? And do you think it doesn't hurt me, the President, Secretary Snowguy who we only asked after the fact? And a number of other people that would have said are you fing nuts? I know of no one that isn't hurt that Goldwater made this horrific decision. Everyone on the NSC would come to you in agreement and state they would have opposed this. Well Goldwater didn't have an NSC, dfw didn't have an NSC. Fhtagn does. She weighed the arguments and concluded it was essential and now it is indispensable to Foreign Policy. I always knew that Dfw's deactivation would not last.

And is that her fault? or Dfws and Goldwater's?

I wasn't thrilled with DFW resigning but by the time he did it became resigned to it as unavoidable (we always have encouraged inactive officeholders to resign and you have done so yourself I would point out like in Nov 2015 from the Senate), nor with Goldwater being unable to serve as President. Somewhere in the back of my mind I hoped that Goldwater would try to stick it out. But you know I think in hindsight, considering the decision he made with NK, him resigning too was probably the best outcome.

I begged him to stick it out past the start of Congress so there wouldn't be a chaotic situation or a delay in Congressional Administration. Vice President is kind of really important to that now. Tried to push it beyond that as well, but it is clear he opted for the earliest date and tossed a burning football to Fhtagn to have to run to the end zone.

It is fine to be mad, I am mad too Lumine. But that isn't Fhtagn's fault that she was handed this mess. But you know all things considering, I think Atlasia got a pretty damn good President out of the mix. And I encourage you to look past your anger at dfw and Goldwater and at least consider Fhtagn on her merits and actions rather than let it be clouded with bitterness at those two.

[Lumine]

My, my, a lot to answer to. I'll be brief:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, there's two I have in mind, actually. In terms of simple reform, I believe the Vice-President ought to have an Executive role (taking care of an area of policy or serving in the cabinet) instead of a Legislative one. In terms of radical reform, I've stated in the past that eliminating the Vice-Presidency is not bad idea, I don't think the office itself is a benefit to Atlasia, but I'll go on greater detail on an upcoming speech.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Actually, yes, I can. I've always had an independent streak, I am trying to lead a campaign to differentiate from two main parties which have grown too close, and I'm trying to rally behind some ideals which seem left behind. If you want to go into the silly debate of who is more "establishment" or "anti-establishment" to make your candidate look better, sure, say I'm "establishment". It doesn't change the fact I'm trying to be an outsider to the current context, with experience as an asset.

And if you're going to bring activity against me of all people, well, it just shows how determined to are to shield the President at all costs. Particularly when you're well aware that in almost every office I've served in (and they've been several) I've been active and delivered results.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, if you don't have an objection with the way in which the current President reached the White House then we have a diverging opinion, Yankee. The voters have a right to judge that the manner of her appointment looks questionable at the very least, and a right to judge whether she is a consistent leader for her party with views which are also consistent with it. And the voters may very well embrace the President and give her a landslide, just as they may decide those concerns are right.

I happen to believe those concerns exist for many Atlasians regardless of whether I was running for President or not, and I think it's important those views and those who oppose "echo-chamber consensus" or "Nyman consensus" have a voice on this election. And if I have to pay a personal price for that... well, I'm used to it.

[fhtagn]

Well, if you don't have an objection with the way in which the current President reached the White House then we have a diverging opinion, Yankee. The voters have a right to judge that the manner of her appointment looks questionable at the very least, and a right to judge whether she is a consistent leader for her party with views which are also consistent with it. And the voters may very well embrace the President and give her a landslide, just as they may decide those concerns are right.

I'm not exactly sure what you feel is so "questionable" about how I ended up President, especially since you had no issues with me getting into office in the first place. Here. Let me remind you:

I've stopped paying barely any attention to Atlasia, but damn, that's historic.

The fact of the matter is, we had a President who longer felt he could fulfill the duties of the position, Goldwater agreed to appointing me for the Vice Presidency because I had been active for quite some time, and held offices that proved I was qualified for the position. In fact, the Senate confirmed me unanimously for the position, also praising my qualifications.

I too held out hope that Goldwater would stay on, but given how his Presidency ended, perhaps it was for the best. And I've been working tirelessly to get us out to the mess we were left with, to finish what other Presidents did not finish, continue setting my own goals for this administration, on top of running for the office and proving these qualifications once again to the people.

You can be angry with dfw and Goldwater for not feeling like they could get the job done, but don't blame me for being the person who was there to pick up the pieces.  The only people who seem to have a major issue with this are folks who have not been active in Atlasia in quite some time, and clearly did not care about Atlasia until it was convenient for them to run for office without any recent activity to support it, which includes yourself.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Apparently the responsible thing for the President to do during a potential nuclear crisis is schedule an unprecedented special election for the Presidency, wait around, and do nothing rather than, you know... their job. I mean, why bother having continuity of government or even a vice president when its apparently no big deal if we don't have a commander in chief during a threatened nuclear exchange? IRL Gerald Ford should have refused to take office when Nixon resigned and left America with no leader for 2 years ... because reasons!

[windjammer]

That is so 2014 someone not being elected becoming president.

I suppose the next step if fhtagn revealing she's in fact Ogys?

[fhtagn]

a right to judge whether she is a consistent leader for her party with views which are also consistent with it.

Yep, my party has so many doubts over my ability to lead and whether or not my views fit with our party's mission:

Final Results:
Fhtagn/PiT     32    91% 
Oakvale/Potus  3     9%

[Mr. Reactionary]

a right to judge whether she is a consistent leader for her party with views which are also consistent with it.

Yep, my party has so many doubts over my ability to lead and whether or not my views fit with our party's mission:

Final Results:
Fhtagn/PiT     32    91% 
Oakvale/Potus  3     9%

Sounds like he's calling us Federalists stupid.

[Adam Griffin]

The notion that fhtagn's ascension to the Presidency wasn't a planned and strategic act by DFW, herself and God knows who else (if anybody) is, of course, nonsense. I doubt Goldwater was personally involved in the shenanigans but it's not difficult to bypass any resistance from unwitting participants in getting things like that done in this game. A "helpful" PM recommendation here and there goes a long way.

a right to judge whether she is a consistent leader for her party with views which are also consistent with it.

Yep, my party has so many doubts over my ability to lead and whether or not my views fit with our party's mission:

Final Results:
Fhtagn/PiT     32    91% 
Oakvale/Potus  3     9%

Sounds like he's calling us Federalists stupid.

I don't think he is, but I will (if only slightly).

Let's be real for a second: the only reason that primary was a landslide was because a) there was a strategic PM campaign against oakvale and b) oakvale has a long history of trolling. This isn't the first time oakvale has ran for the Federalist nomination and - with good reason - many Federalists had plenty of reason to be skeptical.

Had there been a trusted conservative running, I doubt fhtagn would have cleared a majority (maybe not even a plurality) and even the neutered Old Guard Feds, content in selling whatever narrative it takes to win these days, would have likely opted for that alternative in an attempt to salvage their party from recent trends. Fhtagn basically had no real competition and got a result commiserate with that reality.

[fhtagn]

The notion that fhtagn's ascension to the Presidency wasn't a planned and strategic act by DFW, herself and God knows who else (if anybody) is, of course, nonsense. I doubt Goldwater was personally involved in the shenanigans but it's not difficult to bypass any resistance from unwitting participants in getting things like that done in this game. A "helpful" PM recommendation here and there goes a long way.

a right to judge whether she is a consistent leader for her party with views which are also consistent with it.

Yep, my party has so many doubts over my ability to lead and whether or not my views fit with our party's mission:

Final Results:
Fhtagn/PiT     32    91% 
Oakvale/Potus  3     9%

Sounds like he's calling us Federalists stupid.

I don't think he is, but I will (if only slightly).

Let's be real for a second: the only reason that primary was a landslide was because a) there was a strategic PM campaign against oakvale and b) oakvale has a long history of trolling. This isn't the first time oakvale has ran for the Federalist nomination and - with good reason - many Federalists had plenty of reason to be skeptical.

Had there been a trusted conservative running, I doubt fhtagn would have cleared a majority (maybe not even a plurality) and even the neutered Old Guard Feds, content in selling whatever narrative it takes to win these days, would have likely opted for that alternative in an attempt to salvage their party from recent trends. Fhtagn basically had no real competition and got a result commiserate with that reality.

Last I checked, you're not exactly qualified to speak on what folks in the Federalist Party think.

But it's adorable you think anything you have to say on the matter is even remotely relevant.

[Adam Griffin]

I know that there hasn't been enough turnover in the rolls (even with your and DFW's machinations) for 90% of Federalists to prefer a left-winger over somebody with conservative principles in the primary - assuming they had actually had that choice.

#HollowVictory

[Adam Griffin]

Also aren't you like pushing 30? I never addressed PiT's ridiculous Myers-Briggs comments that "you evolved late" or whatever, but nobody in their late 20s suddenly goes from Jill Stein supporter to conservative in a matter of weeks LOL