Talk Elections

Years ago, when I first became interested in politics, I had the thought that politicians should abide by the laws that they make, so I swore to myself that I would always do the best to follow the law (it goes with my nature of being a law and order conservative).

So, I've committed to not drinking before I turn 21 (at least while in the U.S.), not speeding, not illegally downloading music, etc.

Through college, it's become increasingly hard to stick to my principle (especially not drinking), so I was wondering what you guys think.  Is this a solid principle, or just me being no fun and lame?

I find the fact that you're letting other people decide whether your principles are good or not is idiotic.

Stick to what you want to do, regardless.

Idiotic principle. Do what's fun as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

It seems foolish to me, though I guess it is somewhat admirable that you at least practice what you preach if you are going to be an authoritarian regardless.

Following the law is noble, if you believe in the law.  BUT... if you blindly follow the leadership even though you feel you disagree with its decision, that is not noble.
  
It is up for you to decide.  If you decided that all these laws are good because you believe in them, then your principle is solid.  But if you decided all these laws are good simply because they are laws, then your principle is not solid, as it makes you nothing more than a pawn.

And, to +1 Marokai, I find it quite comical that you are letting other people decide whether your principle to follow the laws other people set in front of you to be a good thing.

Good principle for me.

I actually still have a tough time believing there are actually people who wait until they're 21 to drink. Was my university just very abnormal? But when there's tons of easy access to alcohol, a relatively low chance of being caught, and not much in terms of consequences even if you do get caught, there's not much reason not to.

Oh, I'm not letting you guys decide for me whether or not it's a good principle - I'll stick to this til the day I die - I was just curious what you think.

I'm 19 and I've never drank anything, but that's more out of a lack of interest than any sort of "I'm gonna save myself!" thing.

If you believe a law is evil in its consequences, would you still follow it? This obviously doesn't really apply to "this is not legal, therefore I don't do it" and "this is legal, but that doesn't mean I have to do it" situations, but to situations where a course of action is legally prescribed.

It's a good principle for what you believe - perfectly logical and consistent. Good on you for following through on it.

I completely disagree with it, myself, and think that breaking bad laws if you can get away with it is commendable, but that's just me.

That would depend on what the "evil" consequences are, and the definition of evil in that case.  But if it was a situation where 99% of Americans would agree with me that it was an evil law, then no, I wouldn't do it.

Evil by your own definition.

So you do in fact allow other people to decide your opinions for you?

No.  I'm just saying that it would depend what we're talking about as "evil".  If it involved killing somebody, in order to follow some law (other than following out a capital punishment), I probably wouldn't follow the law.  My point was that some people would call things "evil" that really aren't evil.

A good, solid principle Inks.  Keep it up.

Does this also include things like speeding, out of interest?

Fake French-Italian. :P

If you think it's a good principle, than it's a good principle for you.

Phil said he didn't.

Noble and reasonable principle.

Yes, but Phil was a mega-prude. I've never met anyone like him in real life and have a tough time even conceptualizing such a person frankly. At my college you either drank or you weren't interested, no one was "waiting". It's kind of pointless to just refuse to drink on principle anyway if you're at a party or everyone around you is.

Oh I think its a very respectable principle. It is, though, very difficult indeed. I have also committed to no drinking until I am 21, as well as no speeding, and most other things, although I admit I do pirate my ass off with music/games.

Solid. Having self discipline is a good thing to be able to do. And when you stick it out to the end you feel accomplished. I think you should stick to it.

     I plan not to, & after seeing how expensive alcohol is I am doubly sure I won't.

How is it "hard" to not drink?  I never drink, and I regularly hang out with people who are.

Whichg means that it includes speeding (Hamilton's quote makes it seem like it didn't include speeding).

There is no person who drives who has never ever speeded (especially since speeding unintentionally and at a level where you will not be ticketed is quite easy.)

Here are all my crimes:

Underage drinking (quite frequently when I was underage)
Providing alcohol to underage people (never in the last two years or so though.)
Providing pornography to minors (my brothers when they were underage.)
Use of marijuana (rarely, there's maybe three or so instances the statute of limitations hasn't expired on, not that it would matter anyway)
Public intoxication (I'm good at keeping to myself though if I'm just coming home after getting drunk or whatever and don't act like a jerk or anything that would draw attention and result in an arrest. Probably not even illegal under Minnesota law.)
Speeding (Rarely severely, but I've been ticketed twice)
Jaywalking (I never cross at a red light, I'm referring to crossing at the middle of the street. And only if there aren't any other cars around.)
Running a red light (always unintentionally. There's some streets in Minneapolis where this is quite easy to do.)
Illegal parking (Been ticketed once for this.)
Illegally downloading music (Not that often though since I went to college and beyond, and most that I do I later buy. I'm not even morally opposed to it really, it's just not something I have much interest in anymore. I'd rather listen to my records and I prefer online radio like Last.fm's for checking out new stuff)
Engaging in prostitution (I never paid for sex, just for an "erotic massage" a few times, so basically a handjob. Falls under prostitution law but not really enforced here.)
Lewd behavior (Maybe. Some things I've done with strippers in the backrooms and some massage parlors might fall under this but not prostitution. On the other hand Minnesota law is actually very lax about this sort of thing. Even public masturbation isn't illegal in Minnesota!)

Meh, pretty boring overall actually.

Wow, you're badass.

Actually if you read it you'd say that even I admitted it's rather boring.

Nobody asked for your list. If you weren't trying to impress a few impressionable idiots anyone then what was the point of posting all that?

Boredom and curiosity in how long my list would be personally.

Oh yeah I forgot breaking teen curfews, but they weren't really enforced when I was a teen anyway.

compared to your list mine is very short.
Mine is just breaking into the house of the guy who made the game sims to keep my friend from freezing. She fell in the ocean in the winter.

Why did you have to break into the house of the guy who made the game sims to keep your friend from freezing? ???

yeah. My grandfathers house was next door but in that area properties are very far apart. Now the producer of friends has my grandfathers house.

Oh, I admit that I've sped before.  There's times where I'll be driving and my foot gets a little too heavy on the pedal, but I never intentionally speed.  And when I catch myself going over, I slow down.  But by no means do I perfectly follow my principle.

If the speed limits were set at sensible levels, I would not speed either.

But alas, they are not.

Inks, it's a rare thing to actually live by one's own moral code. :P It's commendable. But you should try these things out, because you really can't understand them until you have... ideally, from my point of view, you would ultimately abandon social conservatism; but if not, who cares? Everyone makes mistakes, right? It just proves you have blood in your veins like everyone else.


No. You know when you're on campus on a weekend night, and everyone you see is getting wasted and having a great time? You don't see any straightedge people because they stay at home. That doesn't mean they don't exist, though.

Yeah but those people aren't going to drink after they turn 21 either. Harry comes to mind.

I don't drink, and haven't, despite being 21. I don't feel I'm missing much.

That's not what I'm referring to. I'm thinking of the hypothetical person who doesn't drink a drop until they're 21 and then goes and gets totally wasted. That makes no sense.

That's the goal of MLDA 21.

My principles are:

Smoke

Drink

Download MP3

Actually most states do allow people under 21 to drink in some circumstances (basically under parental supervision.) Though it still doesn't make sense to think of someone who refuses to drink around their parents until they turn 21, especially with how easily available alcohol is on college campuses.

Inks happens to be in one of the worst states for that...


()

Meh underage drinking is so much fun. I miss it.

So I do. Since 2006...

     ^This is why the drinking age is completely useless.

You're so wrong, sir.

Drinking was much more exciting for me before I turned 18 and when it was not legal.

     In other words, it actually undermines the goal it was instituted to achieve.

Well duh...

It is good to have principles, but some laws are just too stupid to follow.

My underage drinking when I was about 6, there were a big feast, and my parents allowed me a cup of Champagne. Damn, couldn't stop laughing then, 1st time I've been drunk I guess. Dunno where to place it in underage drinking laws.

Though, it has been very rare, my parents were very responsible about it.