Talk Elections

Yes I'm a history junkie like alot of ppl on this site, but let's say the south wins the Civil War and remains its own country. Would they have gone into WWII earlier and possibly stopped Hitler? It's very interesting to think about their reaction to international affairs had they won the Civil War.

Perhaps they would have signed a treaty with Hitler, become part of the Axis. 

LOL and maybe the little green martians would have as well.

Seems just as likely as what Derek wrote.

WWII as we know it would not have occurred because of the butterfly effect.

The south would have become allies with the british and the north with germany.

The south would've had a chip on their shoulder after defeating the union and taken it upon themselves to lead the way to victory along with Britain possibly. There's also a possibility that they'd stay out of things. I tend to wonder because I'm all about what ifs.

I see someone reads Turtledove.

rebels british natural allies

Actually, if the South won the Civil War, that the North could turn anti-British is quite plausible despite the fact that Turtledove uses it.  That said, I'd expect such sentiments to show up sooner a la The Guns of the South than later as it does in Timeline-191.

That said, I wouldn't expect an Yanko-German alliance as the Germans weren't that interested in fighting the British.  Nor would an Anglo-Confederate alliance be an inevitable response to Anglo-Yankee fighting.

I'll tell you what too, the south has always been tough on defense and I don't see them waiting as long as FDR who is said to have known about Pearl Harbor in advance, to get involved in WWII. I don't know if FDR knew about Pearl Harbor or not, but imagine the lives that could've been saved if the south had stopped Hitler a little sooner.

My friend, have you received an early preview of the new Texas textbook version of "history"?

Given that the South would have had no Pacific coast and no Pearl Harbor, it is not clear why'd they enter the war at all, unless they'd have happened to be a British satellite by then, in which case the might have participated the way South Africa did. In fact, CSA would have resembled the actual SA rather well in a lot of respects.

I could see a situation in which they'd ally with the Axis on the ideological affinity grounds, but that doesn't seem too likely (unless the Brits had made themselves very unpopular while forcing the slavery abolition: but, again, that doesn't seem very likely).

In every other case (i.e., they are neither semi-British, nor anti-British), I'd think the'd have joined the war some time in 1944 (or whenever the victory would have become plausible), in order to get into the United Nations.  May be, they'd have sent a squadron or two to actually fight alongside the Allies - the way, say, Mexico did. Or else, they'd play Irish.

If the US and the UK got into fighting each otheras part of a World War, I could see the CS possibly joining the war on the US side if the British try a third party blockade as they imposed upon Scandanavia and the Netherlands in WW I. Territorially, the CS would have good reason to be interested in Jamaica, the Bahamas, etc., if only to get some additional English speakers if they've absorbed Cuba and/or more of Mexico in the interim.

If the Confederacy gains it's independence, you can be sure that Woodrow Wilson won't become president of the United States, and with America split into two countries, there's a good chance that the U.S. will be run by more isolationist elements when World War I breaks out, assuming it even does as in OTL.  Thus, no U.S. involvement in World War I.  It's possible that Hitler would never come to power in Germany.  Thus, no World War II as we know it.

The Confederacy would have too many of it's own problems to get involved.  The CSA might be a third-world country by the Twentieth Century.

This is interesting let's keep it up.

The Confederacy wouldn't have lasted all the way up to World War II, if there would even have been a World War II.

While it is quite possible that the Confederacy would have fractured further, had the South gained its independence in the Civil War, it would not have been rejoining the Union later.

On the contrary, reasonable sociological comparisons have been made between southern segregation and south african apartheid.

Any reasonable nation acts before it is attacked in order to prevent such things as Pearl Harbor. The south would have done just that.

Therefore, by your logic, it was reasonable for Japan to attack Pearl Harbor in order to get the jump on the US.

No because the US was never plotting an attack on pearl harbor.

Does a reasonable country, in your view, need to be sure of that or are indications that another country might be plotting an attack enough?

Why would the south attack, the south wouldnt have Pearl Harbor as a port nor would it have any reason to be involved in a Pacific war.

How can you be sure? With all the wrongdoings going on at that time I think common sense is plenty.

Stopping WWII was the right thing to do whether your country was involved or not.

Well at the time noone knew of the atrocities taking place. It was a european war.

3rd world country? Possibly and I highly doubt slavery would've lasted more than another 20 years. You're saying that if the south had won then WWII may have never happened and no Adolf Hitler.

Who'd be attacking the South? Unless it is well within the British orbit, it would have been the last country to have problems w/ the Axis. Pearl Harbor wouldn't have had anything to do w/ the South. I am not claiming they'd necessarily send a congratulatory note to the Imperial Japanese Government on their success in screwing the Yanks, but, to the extent there'd be a public sympathy there in the Confederate perss, it wouldn't have been w/ the USA.

What was it, that was going on, that would have made them nervous (again, assuming they are not a British satellite)? Again, I'd say it would have been the Northern threat, not anything whatsoever that was being done by the Axis. The British trade and political influence might have dragged them into the war on the right side. However, the natural sympathies would have been w/ the Axis, of course.

Not that absurd. Racialist states, in both cases. Yes, in the CSA the whites would have been a majority (though not such a big majority in a lot of places - remember, it is possible, the black migration to the Northern factories would have never happened). But the political system would still be incapable of accommodating the blacks as anything other than semi-humans.

I am not saying it would have been a carbon copy of SA, but it is hard for me to see another actually existing state that would have been more similar.

WWII if it happened at all had the south won, may have reunited the CSA and the union.

Why? Unless, that is, you think the CSA would have joined on the side of the Axis and lost.

They would've joined Britain sooner than the US.

What happened to my forum about if the south had won, what would the effects be in regards to WWII? If our nation was still divided, the south may have entered sooner. What are your thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Yes but my question was alot simpler than that. The butterfly effect is reality we all know that.

Your question has no meaning, though.  The differences between the intervening 75 years would be crucial.

Does the US still have Hawaii and the Philippines, thereby giving it influence in China and a regional threat to Japan?  Is Germany still the loser of the First World War in the same sense, with the similar punitive peace deal?  There are so many minor issues that turn into major ones.

In particular, I don't see a major US presence in the Pacific Islands appearing in your scenario, leading to a lack of a Pearl Harbor and, likely, a successful Japanese domination over East Asia.

Yes let's say that every event that happened between 1865 and 1938 are the same. The north is at a depression but the south is fine. What are the WWII ramifications?

Nothing would have remained the same if one of the world's few developed nations (at the time) was split in half...

What exactly do you mean by nothing? You mean international affairs?