Talk Elections

General Discussion => Constitution and Law => Topic started by: dead0man on June 03, 2010, 11:57:57 PM



Title: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: dead0man on June 03, 2010, 11:57:57 PM
link (http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns)
Quote
In response to a flood of Facebook and YouTube videos that depict police abuse, a new trend in law enforcement is gaining popularity. In at least three states, it is now illegal to record any on-duty police officer.

Even if the encounter involves you and may be necessary to your defense, and even if the recording is on a public street where no expectation of privacy exists.

The legal justification for arresting the "shooter" rests on existing wiretapping or eavesdropping laws, with statutes against obstructing law enforcement sometimes cited. Illinois, Massachusetts, and Maryland are among the 12 states in which all parties must consent for a recording to be legal unless, as with TV news crews, it is obvious to all that recording is underway. Since the police do not consent, the camera-wielder can be arrested. Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

<snip>

In short, recordings that are flattering to the police - an officer kissing a baby or rescuing a dog - will almost certainly not result in prosecution even if they are done without all-party consent. The only people who seem prone to prosecution are those who embarrass or confront the police, or who somehow challenge the law. If true, then the prosecutions are a form of social control to discourage criticism of the police or simple dissent.

A recent arrest in Maryland is both typical and disturbing.

On March 5, 24-year-old Anthony John Graber III's motorcycle was pulled over for speeding. He is currently facing criminal charges for a video he recorded on his helmet-mounted camera during the traffic stop.

The case is disturbing because:

1) Graber was not arrested immediately. Ten days after the encounter, he posted some of he material to YouTube, and it embarrassed Trooper J. D. Uhler. The trooper, who was in plainclothes and an unmarked car, jumped out waving a gun and screaming. Only later did Uhler identify himself as a police officer. When the YouTube video was discovered the police got a warrant against Graber, searched his parents' house (where he presumably lives), seized equipment, and charged him with a violation of wiretapping law.

2) Baltimore criminal defense attorney Steven D. Silverman said he had never heard of the Maryland wiretap law being used in this manner. In other words, Maryland has joined the expanding trend of criminalizing the act of recording police abuse. Silverman surmises, "It's more [about] ‘contempt of cop' than the violation of the wiretapping law."

3) Police spokesman Gregory M. Shipley is defending the pursuit of charges against Graber, denying that it is "some capricious retribution" and citing as justification the particularly egregious nature of Graber's traffic offenses. Oddly, however, the offenses were not so egregious as to cause his arrest before the video appeared.
Illinois, Massachusetts, and Maryland suck a little bit more than they did before. (and they sucked plenty before)


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on June 04, 2010, 01:03:05 AM
     Yeah, these are messed up laws. It is already so hard to get many juries out there to actually consider that the police can do wrong in the line of duty, I can easily see more officers beating people up & getting away with it. As it stands, the videorecording is one of the best weapons there is against police brutality.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Franzl on June 04, 2010, 02:19:05 AM
Hope I don't get beat up by the police :)


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: dead0man on June 04, 2010, 05:22:12 AM
Isn't this basically admiting to the public that the police in these three states are up to no good and the political powers in the state know it and sanction it?


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Franzl on June 04, 2010, 05:56:46 AM
Isn't this basically admiting to the public that the police in these three states are up to no good and the political powers in the state know it and sanction it?

Yes, not that these three states have a monopoly on police brutality, of course. (Is this even constitutional? Seems like it'd be easy to challenge, doesn't it?)


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: dead0man on June 04, 2010, 06:12:05 AM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Why haven't the Supremes seen this yet?


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 04, 2010, 07:45:02 AM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Why haven't the Supremes seen this yet?

Probably because it hasn't even gotten to the point where he's been tried in the lower court yet.  It might make its way up the food chain, deadone.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 04, 2010, 12:31:21 PM
Actualy I'm surprised the ACLU isn't all jumpin' ugly about this.........


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 04, 2010, 02:34:30 PM
Actualy I'm surprised the ACLU isn't all jumpin' ugly about this.........

Because it's the liberal states that are doing it! :P


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 04, 2010, 02:43:42 PM
Actualy I'm surprised the ACLU isn't all jumpin' ugly about this.........

Because it's the liberal states that are doing it! :P

Damn, I'm a dumb old.........thanks, friend ;)


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on June 04, 2010, 04:11:32 PM
Isn't this basically admiting to the public that the police in these three states are up to no good and the political powers in the state know it and sanction it?

Police in all 50 states and DC are up to no good. Of course they don't want to be caught on camera lest the world see what criminal pieces of trash they really are.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Franzl on June 04, 2010, 04:43:55 PM
Isn't this basically admiting to the public that the police in these three states are up to no good and the political powers in the state know it and sanction it?

Police in all 50 states and DC are up to no good. Of course they don't want to be caught on camera lest the world see what criminal pieces of trash they really are.

So all cops are criminal pieces of trash that serve no legitimate purpose?


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Torie on June 04, 2010, 06:30:14 PM
Someone should challenge this awful law. Cops don't deserve any privacy if performing acts in the line of duty. The whole world should be watching ideally, no?  I want video cameras in the Orange County jail, and plan to make my move in that direction soon. The campaign is about to begin!  :)


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Lunar on June 05, 2010, 08:53:13 AM
What about security cameras?

Quote
Since the police do not consent, the camera-wielder can be arrested. Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

Um, really?  Is there an expectation of privacy when you pull someone over on a public road for a traffic stop?

Quote
The courts, however, disagree. A few weeks ago, an Illinois judge rejected a motion to dismiss an eavesdropping charge against Christopher Drew, who recorded his own arrest for selling one-dollar artwork on the streets of Chicago. Although the misdemeanor charges of not having a peddler's license and peddling in a prohibited area were dropped, Drew is being prosecuted for illegal recording, a Class I felony punishable by 4 to 15 years in prison.

That's more of an injustice than being framed.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on June 05, 2010, 09:08:22 AM
What about security cameras?

Quote
Since the police do not consent, the camera-wielder can be arrested. Most all-party-consent states also include an exception for recording in public places where "no expectation of privacy exists" (Illinois does not) but in practice this exception is not being recognized.

Um, really?  Is there an expectation of privacy when you pull someone over on a public road for a traffic stop?

Quote
The courts, however, disagree. A few weeks ago, an Illinois judge rejected a motion to dismiss an eavesdropping charge against Christopher Drew, who recorded his own arrest for selling one-dollar artwork on the streets of Chicago. Although the misdemeanor charges of not having a peddler's license and peddling in a prohibited area were dropped, Drew is being prosecuted for illegal recording, a Class I felony punishable by 4 to 15 years in prison.

That's most of an injustice than being framed.

15 years?

As if the recording being a crime in the first place wasn't bad enough....


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: fezzyfestoon on June 06, 2010, 10:07:29 AM
Wow, not the states I'd expect to do this.  Cops don't need protection, the people do.  I can't wait for this to be completely denied.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Magic 8-Ball on June 07, 2010, 04:40:38 AM
The question I have is how long until these laws get challenged.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 07, 2010, 08:01:37 AM
The question I have is how long until these laws get challenged.

Well the ACLU usually doesn't wait for a lower court case to start litigating.........but other than them, there is a long process to make it up the line.......could be quite some time.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on June 07, 2010, 08:40:07 PM
For those questioning the ACLU, they are, in fact, providing legal counsel in the very case that the initial post was about:

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/aclu-defends-rights-citizens-monitor-police-representing-motorcyclist-prosecuted-state-p


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 07, 2010, 08:59:45 PM
For those questioning the ACLU, they are, in fact, providing legal counsel in the very case that the initial post was about:

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/aclu-defends-rights-citizens-monitor-police-representing-motorcyclist-prosecuted-state-p

Excellent, Schroeder!  Thank you for finding this....


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Lunar on June 07, 2010, 10:52:22 PM
And people bash the ACLU because they sometimes get silly about small stuff?

ACLU are ff's through and through.  If I were a wealthy man, I'd donate to them.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Franzl on June 08, 2010, 04:22:31 AM
And people bash the ACLU because they sometimes get silly about small stuff?

ACLU are ff's through and through.  If I were a wealthy man, I'd donate to them.

They can get annoying....really annoying......but they serve a noble purpose, and I'm glad they exist.

I'd rather people demand to many constitutional rights than not enough.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: You kip if you want to... on June 08, 2010, 05:56:03 AM
This screams "unconstitutional" to me.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 08, 2010, 07:20:39 AM
And people bash the ACLU because they sometimes get silly about small stuff?

ACLU are ff's through and through.  If I were a wealthy man, I'd donate to them.

Yes, I'm a basher over the small stuff.......this isn't small.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: John Dibble on June 08, 2010, 08:43:08 AM
I find myself wondering whether or not there could be a jury stupid enough to convict on this.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 08, 2010, 10:12:55 AM
I find myself wondering whether or not there could be a jury stupid enough to convict on this.

Depends on if they are willing to do a lil jury nulilfication......I sure would.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Torie on June 08, 2010, 10:25:41 AM
I find myself wondering whether or not there could be a jury stupid enough to convict on this.

Depends on if they are willing to do a lil jury nulilfication......I sure would.

Absolutely. The jury deliberation would be quite short. This totally sucks. Not guilty. Let's go have a drink. It would take about 10 minutes. :)


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 08, 2010, 11:02:53 AM
I find myself wondering whether or not there could be a jury stupid enough to convict on this.

Depends on if they are willing to do a lil jury nulilfication......I sure would.

Absolutely. The jury deliberation would be quite short. This totally sucks. Not guilty. Let's go have a drink. It would take about 10 minutes. :)

Fixed :P


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Magic 8-Ball on June 09, 2010, 02:15:53 AM
While I think that the ACLU deserves criticism for the smaller, trivial stuff, it does redeem itself in cases like this.

Here's to hoping for a swiftish victory.


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on June 09, 2010, 08:29:14 AM
While I think that the ACLU deserves criticism for the smaller, trivial stuff, it does redeem itself in cases like this.

Here's to hoping for a swiftish victory.

I've been softening my opinion of the ACLU lately, perhaps because the bullsh**t Christmas scene lawsuits aren't as much in the news as the meatier issues they've been tackling........


Title: Re: illegal to film cops in public in at least 3 states
Post by: Magic 8-Ball on June 10, 2010, 01:46:54 AM
While I think that the ACLU deserves criticism for the smaller, trivial stuff, it does redeem itself in cases like this.

Here's to hoping for a swiftish victory.

I've been softening my opinion of the ACLU lately, perhaps because the bullsh**t Christmas scene lawsuits aren't as much in the news as the meatier issues they've been tackling........

Yeah, I know what you mean.  Seeing as they only make the news when they do something pointless, the deck is kind of stacked against them.  Them's the breaks, you know?