Talk Elections

For a while now, I have been corresponding with a website design and development firm who saw my resume' on Career Builder about an opening for an Assistant Manager position.  The headquarters for this company is actually in Auckland, New Zealand, but this would be a work from home position basically being the liason between the Company and their clients all over the world.  It would offer much higher pay and pretty darn good benefits, including health and disability, vacation pay, sick pay, social security, and even workman's compensation, as well.  Right now, at Oklahoma Natural Gas, I am pulling in a measley $26,000 a year which may increase to $27,500 in 2011, but with this new company, I would be pulling in $54,000 a year, which is $4500 a month payable semi-monthly.  The hours would even be much, much better as well such as 9 am - 3 pm Monday-Friday.  They have already told me they want me and I'm now waiting on them to answer my specific questions.  They have already sent me the contract which I need to print out, sign, scan, and send back to them in an e-mail along with my ID.  They way it's looking now, I could be starting no later than September 1, which is only 6 weeks from this Wednesday.

This would be a huge blessing, because I would be able to pay down my credit card, buy my bride's dress, and pretty much pay for this entire wedding, which should be under $5,000 all together including honeymoon.  This would also make it much easier to transfer to Arizona, since I would be working from home.

I went to school for an E-Commerce degree and about halfway through the program, I realized this would probably be a work-from-home type field as opposed to the traditional office setting.  This sure would cut down on gasoline and wear and tear on the car as my only trips during work hours would be maybe to the bank and to a Western Union.

It does have specific hours that I do have to work because I have to keep within the bank's hours and the WU hours.

This is a legitimate company with a legit website.  I looked on their site and saw a number of their clients.  This is a salary position, not a per diem or a pay-per-performance compensation structure like most other home-based businesses which are mostly scams.

Above the countless other questions that I won't even bother with, why would you choose to transfer to Arizona if you could work anywhere?

If you got that job, we'd make the same amount of moniez!

Why would the bank's hours be in the middle of the night? New Zealand time is very different than ours.

Presumably he means the bank he has an account at.

How are you getting married on that salary?  Is Oklahoma really much cheaper?  I make way more and it's a bitch to pay for things where I live.  I know some guys from Tinker AFB who make a few dollars less than me who were buying 4 BR homes. 

That said, I'd be careful of such firms.  I've had my resume on CB and Monster and got a lot of crap that was not Accounting related and looked like a scam.

No, no, no.  If you are a poor, and you have a job at the Electric Company, you stay there, and say 'yes sir' and 'no sir, and just batten down the hatches and wait.  It will all be over soon enough.  No need to rush it by getting conned up the a**s by some Kiwi b******s and ending up living under a bridge.

Seriously, I know poors who work at the Power Company (true they're from the previous unionized generations so they made $70,000/year, but still), and they survived.  Every one of them - and they will get to die in hospitals with medical treatments.  Yes, Public Utilities are not government jobs, but they're the next best thing.

How will this affect Arizona?

Congratulations!

This time of year it wouldn't be that bad. M-F 9am-3pm New Zealand time is Su-Th 3pm-9pm Mountain time.

I'm kind of concerned, though, if this is indeed a 9-3 M-F job that I would have to give up my current job for a job that may fall flat on it's face, and then I'd be up a creek without a paddle.

My dad gave me a good perspective today.  It's a bird in the hand thing.  I may not be making a whole lot right now, but I should get a raise come January 1 about $0.75 an hour more, which would be $1,500 a year.  Plus, before this new job came around, I was already planning to provide for two people on $26-28K of my own salary.  Hopefully, we'll be able to keep her disability which would give me $4,800 extra a year, so together, i would bring home about $2,000 a month with her $400.  My mother and dad said it is possible to support two people with just $30,000ish.  Really, it wouldn't be too much more than what I'm doing now with one person, and a heck of a lot better than what her mom would be up against.  $1,200 for two people.

If there was a way I could work on this in the evenings to try it out so I didn't have to give up the security of my day job, I would probably do that.

Will Christmas still be your main focus?

Just IMO, but this new job seems too good to be true.

()

Actually to my way of thinking I find his Gas Company job better than I would have thought possible for a poor in the Middle West.

The HR rep I've been talking to answered some more of my questions today and it turns out they're based in Adelaide, Australia, not Auckland, New Zealand.  Hmmm, I wonder if Smid or any other of our friends down under might know this company "ON-company" with the URL www.on-company.com.  One of the questions she answered is that I wouldn't leave ONG until after training which would give me a chance to "test" this company out and see if they will actually deposit the $1,800 for training in my account (minus taxes, of course).  They said there would be no out-of-pocket expenses on my part and that they would take care of all taxes and expenses.  I replied back asking her how it would work with me working at ONG and with her company simultaneously.

Why would this Company PAY all that? Think about whether it makes sense. Nothing against you....but why are you worth this much to them?

You have to pay them to train you?  SCAM

Where did he say that?

Wait, your soon to be is on disability? Why? Are you sure that's something you want to jump in and commit your life to?

No, I don't have to pay a dime.  They will pay me.  I can work at the gas company and train at the same time for 2 weeks and then I will put in my two weeks notice at ONG and transition to ON-Company.

My parents are warming to this idea, as well, and my Dad said sometimes you just have to step out on faith and let the Lord take care of you.  This is a big leap, but I've been getting increasingly unhappy with ONG over the last few months and my bank account is struggling.

States, yes my fiancee' is on disability for a medical condition, and that's why I am going to try this new job because $54,000 will go a lot further than $30,800 which is what I would make with her $400 a month.

It sounds admirable why you'd do this.  I don't know how you'd be able to get married on that money you and her are currently making.  However, I'd like to see a months, if not a few months pay before you give 2 weeks notice.  Or get a 2nd job.

I'm so glad Okie's soon to be gets disability for a "medical condition" and yet my mom is not considered disabled.  She just doesn't have use of the left side of her body because she chose not to, apparently.

I get really bitter towards people that get disability unless they're really actually disabled.  Is your wife unable to work at all?  Or is she more unwilling + qualifies for disability?

I hope she doesn't vote Republican.  Her disability is nothing but laziness in their eyes!  So I hope lip service on banning abortion and keeping the sissy boys from marrying is worth it when they cut her disability payments so we can afford another tax cut to the rich!

She actually receives SSI and is unable to be gainfully employed.  I think she would love to work, but with her condition, she'd be more of a liability than an asset.

We could have made it on that income, it would have been tough, but it could have been done, but this will make things easier.  Now, it won't solve all problems, but it will definitely help.

I would like to have at least a month to work at both places, but that's just not possible.  Instead, I'll have a couple weeks to train and work at the same time.  The way it's looking, I have at most one more month at ONG.

Is there a guarantee that company will be around down the road if it is legit? You aren't making much now, but you may not be making anything in a few months. I'm sure Oklahoma NG is more stable than whatever company you're looking at now.

Well, they've been in business for over 10 years and are in the ever-growing industry of web-design.  I've no doubt that this company will be here for the long-term.

Well, I didn't mean to sound so acerbic.  If your fiancee has a disability, then I'm sorry about that.  But I'm sure you get frustrated when the people who need help are denied it and you see abuse all over the place.

And the only people who wish to actually fix this only wish to cut everybody off.. so there's no real solution.

Well, hopefully your soon to be will at least find some good hobbies that help her forget about her disability for a while.

Class envy anyone?

Sorry for not answering this, but they are paying the industry norm.

What now?  What class are you talking about?  Are you suggesting I am in a class envying another class?  I thought I was pitying the working class.  Pity is different from envy, Denver.

That is disturbing.  To your question about how she votes, she does vote Republican, because she's afraid of the Democrats doing exactly what you mention the Republicans would want to do.  She is afraid Obama wants to get rid of Social Security assistance for retirees and the disabled.  She doesn't mind me being a Democrat and an Obama voter, but she herself will never be one.

Might want to keep that in mind before you plunge into matrimony, big boy.


Why on earth does she believe that nonsense?  When you say 'disabled' do you mean mentally?

Wtf I agree with opie.

To me, she more of an asset than a liability, but companies may see her differently.  However, she is an artist and possibly may go into business selling her artwork which would help supplement our income and give her spending money, basically.  While my wife may not be "working", she may be an entrepreneur.


I don't know, I think she's just been "Oklahomanized" which in the context of politics is not necessarily a good thing.

I'm not going to disclose her condition, but suffice it to say it is significant enough for SSI, but still leave her nearly normal.  She is extremely intelligent and very knowledgeable for a 25-year-old woman who has never lived away from her mother.  She really will help offset my personality.

Go wash your mouth out with soap. :P

Kidding, but that is very rare for States and Opie to agree with each other.

This thread will end well.

Are you sure it will end?  I mean, the Update thread is alive and well after more than six months since creation.

When you stay out of it.

My parents are on board with this job and so is my bride-to-be.  I have the ball rolling and this company has already put in their intranet to increase safety of communication.  My training will begin most likely on Monday, July 26.  My first paycheck should come in the second week of August at the end of the training.  I'm growing increasingly more confident with this company that it is what it says it is.  They've been extremely prompt in returning my e-mails.  If I e-mail them in the evening, they respond by 10:30 the next morning and if I e-mail during the day, they will respond within an hour, usually in under half an hour.

Ok, I'm a bit skeptical here. 

1. Did you have this contract looked at by a lawyer?

2. Is all of your communication via email?  If you have talked to them verbally who are you talking to?

3. What ID are you send them?  Are we talking about scanned and faxed docs? Drivers License etc.

You have to be careful man.  When they ask for your bloody routing # and account # to "deposit" your first check they could be also taking all your money out with the correct information.  It could be perfectly legit but you have to be super careful because ID theft and stuff can ruin your life.  I wouldnt be heartened that they answer your emails promptly because many crooks are quite diligent and hard working too.

I just find it odd that any company would hire management without a face to face meeting.  If this company can't afford to fly you out there to Australia or have them fly to OKC- What does that say about their financial viability.  8k or so shouldnt be too much money to invest on a new hire.  At the very least request a meeting via Skype to meet some of the highers ups of this company.

I wouldn't quit your job at the other place until you have been fully trained and get the first paycheck.  I am skeptical about this as well.

Wait, you weren't even interviewed? This is worse than i thought.... Definitely don't quit your job at Ok Natty Gas until you're positive this is real.

I echo Meeker. I don't see this thread ending well. 

Ok, Inspired by watching Sherloke Holmes I'm pretty much 100% sure this is a scam of some sort.

1.  No Hoover's information- I once worked at a company with like 6 people and they are on there

2. No linkedin information that I could find. They also weren't on career builders.

3. website seems to be of a new vintage if I'm tracking it right June 1, 2010 or that could be date of ownership privacy protection.  Company also protects themselves from internet archiving.

4. Website really is management and techno jargon.  The client list is dodgy, intentionally vague- look to be a couple of fake companies thrown in there.

5. On the website they have listed a 23 Waymouth Street.  ANZ building occupies 11 thru 29 Waymouth Street.  I don't see them listed as tenants in any search at all. 

I could be wrong, but Okie I just hope you didnt give them too information. 

I have to echo Patrick's concern.  And thanks for doing all that factfinding!

BushOk... you might close your checking account and open a new one tomorrow if you want to be safe.  Or remove all money except a small amount and see what happens.

WOW!  Even for jobs that pay far less, you can be put through the ringer with interviews.  Well, let's just say NORMALLY put through the ringer.  Hell and as patrick1 said- no LinkedIN, not Hoover's info.  Those are MAJOR red flags for me.  I concur with Snowguy.

After all that I really hope you didn't quit your job. This smells like a scam to the max.

Oh, BushOK ... be careful here. I echo the other sentiments that are cautioning you about jumping into this one. You didn't even know where they were based as of a few days ago, confusing http://www.on.co.nz/ with http://www.on-company.com/. Are they one in the same? Is one a subsidiary of the other?

I'll be honest ... I'm a vice president of a web-development firm, and I would never hire you or anyone else for an "assistant manager" position (whatever that means) without having had extensive over-the-phone and on-site meetings. That would be for my benefit and comfort-level as well as yours.

So here are a few questions, and if you haven't done so already, you really, really need to get them answered:

 - What is an "assistant manager?" What is the job description, the day-to-day expectations, your short-term and long-term goals and your expected workload?

 - Who will you be working with and will you be expected to manage any staff? In what piece of the company will you be operating (sales, marketing, operations, development, etc.)?

 - What exactly does this company do? The two URLs I posted above show varying expertises ... web design, custom development, a variety of web-applications, etc. It's not that a single company can't do this, but it's best that you have an idea of what their true strength is before jumping in.

 - What do you bring to the table? In other words, why are they interested in you?

 - Why doesn't a web-design company's website look better? Why does it return so many errors and warnings when run through a W3C validation checker? (This is not really a big deal, but it would be comforting if they could give you a realistic explanation of why their home pages return very messy validation when they're supposed coding experts.)

 - How large is their client base? What is their average and expected annual revenue? Are they profitable?

And I could go on ... but I think a lot of the other concerns, particularly those about your bank account, have already been covered. In other words, this is as much your opportunity to interview them as it is for them to interview you ... and it sounds to me like they've done a lousy job of interviewing you to this point. Plus, Patrick has incredibly valid concerns.

Don't jump into this based on faith, my friend. Be smart about it and make them prove themselves to you. They're offering a good chunk of salary for a remote employee with little-to-no management credentials or experience beyond education ... that's rare, and it makes me skeptical. You ought to be skeptical, too.

I agree, run far far away.

The New Zealand one seems to be legit and they even have a picture of their headquarters on the website. The Australian one is sketchy as hell though.

I know he's gonna quit his current job before making sure.....I know it.  :(

I have the same feeling, gramps.

Yeah so please take it seriously.

Seriously, man, I live in a constant state of fear of poverty (and by that I mean including death by poverty), and I've got money in the family. 

So I just want to stress, please be cautious and take things seriously.  The world is a very terrible and awful place, and you are incredibly lucky to have a subsistence job at the Gas Company.  You're not just playing around with a little mishap, you're playing around with a painful, miserable death, as is any american who becomes unemployed.

All opebo doomsday speak aside, he's right. The worst thing that could happen to you is that you leave OK Natty Gas for this company and it turns out to be a scam. Combine that with the fact that you have a wedding, honeymoon and then a wife who doesn't work to support on top of that, things could turn ugly fast.

If this is what you want, meaning, to move to work for ON-Company, at least wait until you are fully hired, have your first paycheck, etc, before you decide to leave OK Natty. The fact that they didn't even interview you is a huge red flag to me. It's also kind of puzzling that they are hiring you as an assistant manager to work from thousands of miles away. How can you manage anything in that manner?

I got some more clarification today on the "assistant manager".  That title is given because they are looking to expand into the States and open more offices in this area, and they will eventually put other employees under me.  I can still move to Phoenix real easily, but they want to expand into the country.  I do have a voice to put with the online communication now, so that's a step in the right direction.

Do you listen to anything people say???

Do you have any interest in buying the Menai Suspension Bridge?

Le sigh.  I tried....

()

Ugh... from the looks of it, BushOK has already quit his job at OK Natty Gas...

Compulsiveness and gullibility are a lethal combination when it comes to being scammed.

My friends and family are comfortable with this switch.  Yes, it is a big risk, but as I've said before, sometimes you just have to step out in faith.  I'm growing increasingly confident in this company.  They've been in business over 10 years and it's absolutely impossible to be in business that long and conduct illegal business.  The government would have found them out and shut them down for now.  Also, they gave me their registration information with the Australian Government and I have checked them out on their version of the Better Business Bureau as well as America's BBB and have found no complaints.  I do indepth research before I make a decision, especially one as big as this, and that my mother can verify.  Sometimes I do make mistakes, but I always do extensive research on my decisions before I jump in with both feet.

Duke, you are correct, my last day at ONG is tomorrow, but I'm not worried at all.  I'll get started with my first training day on Monday and will get paid at the end of the first week of August.

Yeah, I thought he had to do the depositing, not them.  Regardless, the other concerns are enough.  This thread is such a disappointment.

Bushie, are the issues others are pointing out concerning to you? Even a little?

Since it's too late to talk you out of this, how about a job description? Or have they given you that yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia

Here is the job description:

This is the job description:
The position is home-based and your duties will include the following areas:
- maintaining business correspondence with customers of the company, replying on time and managing it,
-working out internal reports and classifying fiscal information (all stages of the process: from data collection to its organization),
-processing direct payments from the customers to programmers, working for our company (paper formalities),
- starting a new branch office (your assistance in looking for a proper office space and solving possible administrative issues).
- helping the company design and maintain websites on occasion.

To carry out your work you will be admitted to the corporate banking account as soon as you start working for us.

Memphis,

I hear what everybody else is saying and I had the same concerns at first, but as I've researched this company over and under, forward and backward, inside and out, I've grown more and more confident in not only their legitimacy, but their stability.  This is not a fly-by-night gig.  My mother and dad are also on board with this decision.  It took a while to convince them, but they are on board.

BushOk, I wish you the best on your new endeavor and I hope my suspicions are very, very wrong.

However, get elaboration on what below entails:

processing direct payments from the customers to programmers, working for our company (paper formalities),

To carry out your work you will be admitted to the corporate banking account as soon as you start working for us.

There is a scheme to establish a front company, offer someone a job and then use said person for wire and banking fraud.   Maybe I'm paranoid but wouldnt want to see you facing Federal wire fraud or passing bad check charges.   Hell its even alluded to a craiglist:# 7 http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

There is really NO LEGITIMATE REASON that a company would not be able to handle their own corporate accounts payable and receiving on a Global level from Australia.  My previous companies HQ was in London and handled all payment/receiving and annoyingly even payroll for over 100 countries. 

Also re: Contract-  for something this important have it looked at by a lawyer. 

P.S.- I hope I'm not coming off like a jerk.  This could very well be your dream job- just want to make sure all bases are covered.

This does not pass the smell test.

Stupidity needs to be punished, I suppose. I won't have much sympathy when the Truth comes out....but you just go ahead and let God lead the way!

P.T. Barnum was spot on.

As far as I'm concerned, the real clincher here is they finding you. That doesn't happen. A company doesn't randomly find some dude in another country with no previous experience in the particular field and give them a dream-job.

People do get dream jobs they're not qualified for (I know of cases similar to this one) but in those cases it always happens EITHER from personal contacts OR through the person himself seeking out the company.

If the business is legitimate, this way of conducting business is sufficiently unprofessional that they're unlikely to survive. :P

At the very, very least you should take some pre-caution in emptying the account you give them any kind of information on. Also, if they're good at this they might give you a little bit of money early on to instill confidence. If you're smart, don't get fooled by that.

Does anyone but me smell money laundering?

I think I smell the same thing, Gramps. It smells rank for sure.

I often wondered how people could possibly fall for Nigerian scams. Now I see how.

He has to be kidding us.

How can it be that a poor person exists who does not fear the pains of death by starvation?

This.

Can we at least have an assurance that your password to this forum is not something that could be easily worked out from information that you've given to these people? You are a moderator and this is an issue of forum security.

Does this company have a website? The New Zealand one seems to be somewhat legit, but I can't find the Australian version anywhere.

I'm going to feel bad when this thing blows up. I'm almost certain it will. Whatever you do, do not, I repeat, do not give them your bank account information.

My forum password is secure.

The Australian Version is www.on-company.com.

The New Zealand Version is related to it, as well.

Again, I have checked this company through and through and have left no stone unturned.  They're legit.  I would not involve myself in something I knew was a criminal practice.

But does it make any sense???

http://www.phishbucket.org/main/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=4826

Wow, just wow.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This is both hilarious, because I saw it coming from a mile away, or sad, because apparently BushOK quit his OK Natty Gas job today.

It does make sense.  I had the same concern about money laundering when I first made contact with this company, so that's why I investigated them thoroughly, asked for their registration with the Australian Government, and checked with the Aussie's version of the Better Business Bureau.  I have no red flags that haven't been addressed and satisfied.

I will kind of go back on one thing I said earlier that Gustaf mentioned.  They didn't find me out of the blue, rather I had my resume' out on Career Builder and that's how they got a hold of me.  Now, I know you can't trust every company that uses Career Builder or Monster, so that's why I checked these people out before I committed to them.

They have no complaints with the BBB of Australia because this is a hit and run operation.  Once they commit a crime under this name- which YOU will be a fall guy for- they will then change their name to some other non descript company name-  Global Inc. and get more people.  Cut your loses.  You cannot focus on Christmas from a bleeding Federal Prison!!!!!!

Did you read Boris' link.  Are they expanding that rapidly?  It really sucks man, you made a mistake.  Start making it right and cease immediately. 

I hope you didn't give them your Social Security Number or Banking information .....if so, doomsday

Did you read Boris' link? Because it's pretty clear this is a scam.

Hopefully God will see you safely through this though.

I also hope, for your sake, OK Natty Gas will take you back. However, if they know you are actively looking to leave them, that may not be the case.

LOL how stupid can you be? Someone posts a link proving it's a scam....and you still talk about how you researched it extensively.

No pity from me.

Boris probably found out about the scam in 5 minutes, and Bushie's extensive research didn't find it.

Yep, doomsday is here, financially.

This is not good if you're planning on getting married and potentially starting a family. This was like an oncoming train that as all saw coming towards BushOK and he was the only one that didn't or refused to see it.

BuskOK, did you not have to work out a two week notice at OK Natty Gas? How did you quit so soon?

I'm going to wait until Monday morning to see what's going on, but I do have a backup plan just in case I need something to use it.  It's too late to do anything else tonight, but I'm going to look at it again on Monday.

So you seriously quit your job at ONG?

I think it's as clear as day as to what's going on... you need to go with your backup plan because you'll only lose if you stick with ON-company.

But won't God lead the way to the promised land?

Perhaps, if God wants him to live in poverty with a hungry wife to feed. Then again, some churches do preach that education, money and a decent, enlightened lifestyle is sinful and must be avoided. Maybe this is what God wants!

You can't say we didn't warn you.

I have trouble feeling any pity as well.

And I'm sure it'll be another case of, if it had worked out... God is all to thank.. but since it didn't... we'll just blame that bitch Eve.

Amazing.  How stupid can you be to follow this?  I mean really Jeff, this is so obviously a scam.

Why does BushOK ignore all the posts clearly identifying this as a scam?

Indeed. Bush, did you read the link to the Aussie website? The spelling/grammar is shocking

SHORTLY ABOUT US

Welcome to ON Company, one of the leading software outsourcing companies delivering consultancy, development and QA services.

Reliable software consultancy with local project management. Experts in .NET, JAVA/J2EE, Microsoft, Borland & Oracle technologies. Our comprehensive portfolio of software services and consultancy, cover different industry verticals such as Finance, Travel, Healthcare, Retail, Telecom and Utilities and our client engagements include all size of company.

Projects are managed locally and executed locally and/or remotely. We provide best value through a combination of local & offshore software development outsourcing. We are an Australian company with offshore development centres so you need not go through the software outsourcing learning curve or suffer the usual communication problems.

I need to make a sincere apology...

The more and more I look at this website and line it up against Boris's link that he posted, the more I'm thinking this could really be a scam.  I've been trying to deny it.  It's probably too late for ONG (though I may call Monday morning), but I am going to implement this new backup plan first thing Monday morning.  I will have enough money coming in from ONG to last me through Labor Day (almost $1,800 after taxes).  I have faith in my God that He will put me back in a meaningful employment by September 1.

I made a mistake by leaving ONG, but hopefully, I can cut the losses and get right back into the working world.

Bush you need to learn to engage with your brain a little more before taking 'leaps of faith.' That aside, at least you've realised at the 11th hour that this is a scam; consider it a learning experience and I hope you find a job soon.

One last gasp.  Would someone check this website of ASIC (Australian Securities and Investments Commission) and tell me what you think of this.

http://www2.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=119_068_138&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1

3 days ago you said "Instead, I'll have a couple weeks to train and work at the same time.  The way it's looking, I have at most one more month at ONG."

How did you go from a month left to no job there so fast?

And please tell me you didn't give them your SS# and bank account info.

The first question - I misjudged the timeline.

The second question - nope, i gave them none of those.

Good man....

So, based on that, I'm still going to give them a couple days to prove themselves since they have none of my very personal informatoin.  I still have the backup plan.  I feel safer doing it this way knowing that if any monies are transferred via payroll, it would have to be by check which then I could see if it is a legit check before I deposit it.  They did contact me by phone, though, yesterday, so now at least I have a voice to put with the e-mails and communications.

And, to answer an earlier question, they are not really expanding rapidly, they are in the research phase of trying to expand.

What good does having a voice do you? Is it nicer being lied to orally than written?

I'm confused by this.  It's almost fake.  He talks right past them.  He'll probably ignore this post too.

Bushie, this is money laundering man.  The checks you would be likely receiving would likely be from legitimate people or companies who have been defrauded in another scam.  You take part in any of the process and you become part of the crime.  It is like receiving stolen property.  You would be there to wash the money and then forward it on.  When the money is found to be fraud you can get nailed for receiving these sums and you would be left with the cabs taken out.

Regarding the ASIC, If one component is a scam then the rest are also fraud.  It could be a ghost company set up as a sleeper or it could be someone else's information.  It is pretty easy to set up a fake companies.
Below is a link that goes into some of the details.

http://www.thatsnonsense.com/index.php?location=fake_job

Edit: And yes Lunar I feel like we are getting phished with Bush Ok being some damned obstinate. 

Okay, that does it for me.  I'm going to tell them no deal and move on.

I find it interesting comparing aspects of Jeff's behaviour in this topic (the cheerful stubbornness until it's too late, jumping into stuff on 'faith' and sudden shortening of previously-established timeframes) to the various 'Update' topics and the sheningans contains within. I'm a casual follower and even I can see that there are very clear patterns occuring and they're not particularly healthy ways to behave.

Is PrivacyProtect.org [who are masking the "Australian" company website] a legitimate website?

I concur.  Nothing to gloat about because I would have fallen for something like this if I were younger.  

I've gotten e-mails off CareerBuilder for the many months I was out of work.  Of course they were all marketing crap that I wasn't interested in anyway so I ignored it.  It was blatantly obvious they didn't even look at my resume.  

Bushie-- COME ON BUDDY!!!! For being in the professional world as long as you have, this should have been fairly easy to know this was fishy.  At the LATEST, I could see someone 18/19 falling for this, not 27/28 and about to be married.  I wish you luck with this.  And as for your parents, they're thinking is it's your judgment.  Hey, I'm in a rent vs. buy a home argument with mine right now so....  you have to know what's best man.  

So what's Plan B?

Yeah, they seem to be a legitimate company that protects illegitimate websites and activity.  They say they protect you against spammers and phishers, but really protect those.

Scammers can be quite sophisticated and are always coming up with new schemes.

I've got a couple jobs I'm going to call on Monday and try to get something set up.  One is a tech support for Cox Communications and one is a sales-rep for Sprint.  The tech support job would be a minor pay cut ($1000/yr), but it would still be fairly easy to transfer to the Cable Company in Phoenix.  I could also transfer from Sprint store to Sprint store.

Some quick Googling brings up a few folk complaining that domain name squatters/resellers have used the PrivacyProtect service to mask their details, and that PrivacyProtect are apparently rather less than helpful when it comes to enquiries about it. That does seem to be their stock in trade though, so I guess it's to be expected. I also notice that when you type 'privacyprotect' into Google,  the second autocomplete suggestion (after 'privacy protect') is 'privacyprotect.org scam'.

None of that is proof they're not legit, of course, but I can't help but wonder why a reputable company would be using such a service in the first place. Particularly one in the web sector; if they wanted to hide details from a WHOIS I'm sure they could've done so without using a third-party service.

I have more sympathy for Bushie than most of you guys. Yes, he's too way trusting, but it's obvious he really just wants to get married and get a better job and get out of Oklahoma. I feel awful for him now that he has no job, enough savings for a month, and his soon to be wife is disabled. Now, he's going to have to find a new job in a time of high unemployment. Assuming the utility won't take him back, he's almost certainly going to have to settle for an undesirable, low-paying job, at least until he can find something better. He's not even eligible for unemployment because he voluntarily left his job. My advice to him would be to apply for lots of jobs waiting tables until he can get something more permanent. While the pay is not amazing, it's better than you might think, and turnover at restaurants is very high so they are always hiring.

Well, I reported Bushie's company to see if we might find out which African country actually hosts it.

I have many fake email addresses that I use for spam sites and other purposes, but I didn't even give them that much, using DeclineToState@hotmail.com instead.

I think if you called your manager at the gas company and just explained the situation to them, they might understand and offer you the previous job back - I can't imagine they're filled your position yet, and if you explain your reasons for wanting to go for a higher-paying job (particularly with regard to the upcoming marriage and related financial pressures) I don't think anyone would blame you for what you did.

It's alright guys.  Yes, I made a mistake by leaving ONG, but I am trying to cut everything there as I have told the scammers no deal.  So, Monday morning, I am going to call on these jobs and hopefully, Lord willing, be able to find something relatively quickly.  Remember, the recession didn't hit Oklahoma as hard as other parts of the country, so that's a plus.  I'm also going to call ONG back on Monday morning and see if I can go back to work for them at the same job and same pay.

Note:  None of this conversation makes it to facebook.  I'm trying to save face there.

That's a good idea, and plus they haven't even de-activated my account, yet, as I can still get into my e-mail, so it would be a lot simpler for them to let me back in.  It would be embarrassing, but not near as bad as if I were to fall flat on my face with a wedding, a mortgage, a student loan, and a credit card payment.  All they would have to do is just give me my badge and garage transponder back and since I already know how to do the work, they wouldn't have to train anybody for my job.

Best of Luck, Jeff.  If you can't get it back, you can move on and find something else.  You weren't that happy there so maybe a new job will come up that will be even better.  Stay positive and don't let a misstep hold you back.

How long have you worked there? If there's a particular manager or other employee with a bit of clout that you've built up a good rapport with over the years, then I'd start by talking to them :)

You need to put patrick and boris in your will.

memphis, if we didn't care we wouldn't be harrassing him to stop seeing through rose colored glasses.

Hell I've made more stupid mistakes than I can count and if I added up all the money I lost because of it I'd blow my brains out.

We're just trying to help but he doesn't make it easy.

I know I need to be positive, and I'm trying.  I just don't want to end up going into September with still no job and no means of income.

This is why you need a temporary job. Swallow yur pride, and don't worry if it's not your dream job. It's just to get you enough time to find a "real" job. Your savings will go faster than you anticipate. I've been in a similar place. I learned that delivering pizzas is actually a lot of fun :)

http://www.petitiononline.com/h2o/petition.html

That damn crap ruined my old car.
()

Well unsurprisingly opebo was right on.

I just talked to one of my co-workers privately on facebook and she said it's worth a shot to call my manager back and see if i can get my job back.  What's the worst he can say?  No?  Especially when i told her that I was trying to make things better for my future wife and I and ended up nearly involved in a big scam.

Yes, the red states didn't get hit as hard, partially because we are subsidizing them. California is really hurting. But in any case, I would imagine that finding a new job probably isn't that easy there either.  If you can't get your current job back and you're going to run out of cash by September, you might be lucky to get a job at McDonalds.

I will call first thing Monday. I've been given a sign not to worry tonight - my computer quit

Moral of the story: Listen to opebo.

I just now applied to a local car dealership that offers $31K base pay and a 5-day work week plus benefits.  I meet the qualifications listed on the advertisement, so we'll see where it leads.  The thing I'm after is base pay.  I do not want any commission only jobs, which is why I won't do normal car dealerships.

Oh lord ... Jeff, why wouldn't you listen to any of us? Gramps is right -- you need to be kissing Patrick and Boris' feet for stopping you from going any further.

As much as you hate to take other peoples' advice, here's a bit:

 - Slow down. Your rush-rush-rush mentality made you quit ONG way too early (a month sooner than you originally predicted just a few days ago!). Now you're banging out applications to a slew of other jobs. Stop. You probably have your ONG supervisor's contact information -- call him / her this weekend and have an honest conversation, and if you can't reach your boss ASAP, call on Monday. If you were a solid employee, there's a good chance they'll let you back in.

 - Share your job desires and ONG job description with this forum. There are -- apparently -- a lot of smart people here. There are connected people, too. If you want to make more than $31k a year, let us know what you were doing and ... who knows? One of us may be able to help you find something better.

 - Don't do the Sprint sales rep job. It's low-paying, the quotas are stressful and the commission isn't worth it.

 - "Faith" is not an excuse for stupidity. God gave you a brain for a reason. Ears, too. Start using them.

And best wishes. We are here for you.

There's no excuse for continuing after Boris posted that link.

That's what I will do.  I will call my supervisor first thing Monday morning and see if I can get my old job back.  I was one of their best employees, so I don't think it would be much trouble.  I'll just try to go in and act like nothing ever happened.  Plus, we are very near August 1, which means I am just under 8 1/2 months left until a wedding.  It's way too late in the game to be gambling with our futures.

The lesson is that in general you take things way too fast. It's in your best interests to slow things down.

Best of luck, though. A job change will probably be good for you.

Getting in the next workday after you quit shouldn't be that hard as it's not likely you were even dropped from payroll yet. Probably will have to fill out your W-2s and all again though. But it'd make more sense to take you back as you can fill your old position instantly and not have to worry about being trained in.

I was trying to tell you that earlier.

Good man, although if you can, try to call your supervisor this weekend. It's possible that ONG has some HR rules in place that would prevent a sympathetic rehire, but most individuals have a hard time separating their core identities from their role at a job ... in other words, your supervisor will likely be sympathetic to the truth and do all he can to help you out, if corporate rules allow him that flexibility.

Having that conversation before Monday morning means that your supervisor can get a potential rehire in motion immediately at the start of the week. If you wait till Monday morning to call, you risk catching your supervisor off-guard or missing each other completely, wasting valuable time.

How is that the moral of the story? I'd say it is rather "listen to anyone who posted in this thread".

I don't think anyone posted anything other than warnings.

True but I was the most vociferous and extreme, because I am the most pessimistic person on the forum.  The moral is:  he who is most pessimistic is oracle.

You just wanted another opportunity to engage in your usual ravings on how horrible it is to be poor, living in America today and how good it is to have a public sector job. You took a pretty limited interest in the actual case, unlike the people who actually put in research or valid points on the specifics of this situation.

It doesn't really matter much either way, but calling yourself an oracle for predicting what everyone else predicted seems a little over the top to me.

Yes of course!  And all of those things are absolutely true, Gustaf.


Only an imbecile would need to research this to know it was what it was, Gustaf.   (not dissimilar from the economics thread).

That's not the point...the point was that this actually convinced BushOK to not go through with it. That is, those people actually did some good for him instead of using this as an excuse to recycle their tired tirades about politics.

But my tirades, however tired, are always correct, Gustaf.  I'm not going to jump through hoops to get some worker to recognize himself, when I've already trotted out the truth for him once.  Good lord man, if we set ourselves up to actually reform the idiocy of the masses, rather than just poke fun at them for it, we'd live a life of even great frustration.

http://www.dhmo.org/

Oh wow. That would be the core post of the whole thread.

I normally try to stay out of these trainwreck potential threads because... uh... hard to explain really, but I try not to read them. But just right now I read most of this, only skimmed some parts.
That on-company link also looked like one of those registered domains that aren't being used, and not at all like how legit company websites look.

Damn you for quitting your job... why the hell did you do that before signing anything with what you thought would be your new employers?
Ifyou hadn't done that everything'd be fine right now, you needed a little help seeing through the scam, invested some time and nerve in it too but that can happen to people, the important part would be that in the end you did see through it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revenge_(Seinfeld)#Plot

Not on the first page.

The worst part is your signature.


That's really not witty at all and doesn't make any sense. You're a Bush fan, who is apparently quite conservative. If you were going to switch to the G.O.P. that means you were already a Dem, which means that you didn't need to re-register. WTF?

BushOK likes all establishment politicians (except coastal Liberal Democrats without national ambitions and the worst Christian Rightists of the Oklahoma Republican party). It's a mistake, though an understandable one, to jump from his username to the conclusion that he is "a Bush fan".

He was beaten by this.

Yes, but if he was planning on switching to R, then why would he need to register again as a D, unless he had already switched and had "voter's remorse"?

Jesse, I. Will try to call my sup tomorrow afternoon and see what he says. Hopefully, if I can't
Get on Monday, then Tuesday and just lose a day's pay.

No idea. Maybe he moved? Or Oklahoma contacts you at regular intervals to ask if anything had changed?

LOL. No idea.


Well, Bushie, I wish you the best of luck and have you in my prayers. That's tough to do, but please don't be naïve. There are a lot of people with intentions to hurt out there and intentions to cheat.

You're a really good guy, and a hard worker and I'd hate to see crap happen to you. So please, please, be careful.

The point was I got the impression he thought because it came from CB it was legit.  Mind you I've had legit interviews from there and it's a good tool, but I wouldn't overly trust it.

I asked a co-worker if she thought I could get back on at my same position and she highly doubts it considering that I left ONG with 48 hours notice.  She does think it's possible to call HR, though, and see if I can get A job with them, whether that's the call center or meter reading or what have you.  That's what I'll probably do at 8:00 am Monday morning.  I'm still going to put resumes out and see if i can get anything that way.  Now, if and when I get a job, either ONG or elsewhere, I am going to disable that e-mail account where the scam went to.  It was just my school account, so it's no biggie.

Guys, if you pray, please pray for me.  I've worried myself to the point that I'm starting to get physically sick.  I don't need this heartache and I would give anything to just go back to this past Wednesday morning and start again.

I've prayed that I'm giving it to God, but I still keep trying to take it back and that's causing me even more heartache.

Why don't you try calling your supervisor instead of asking coworkers what they think? It's time to take control and stop relying on prayer when it comes to this. This is your destiny. You can either make or break it. All they can tell you is no. I have no idea why you left with only 48 hours notice considering you said yourself that you would work a 2 week notice.

God gave you your body and mind and the free will to make your own choices.  While you claim he is guiding you, I see you making rash and compulsive decisions without thinking them through all that much.

Do as Duke says.  Call your supervisor and let him or her know what happened and ask him or her if there's anything they could do to get your job back.

I don't know that praying would do any good because
1)  God didn't guide you nor was he involved in any way whatsoever with this process
2)  He will also not be involved with making it better

He can help you make yourself feel better... but the moving and hte doing has to be done using your own determination and willpower.  You can't nor should you just submit yourself to "God's Will" because all it does is make your compulsiveness worse and makes you use God to justify it.

I'm a little encouraged now.  I've got friends who are helping me out and trying to pull some strings at ONG and elsewhere, so at least I'm not alone in this fight, although I should be since it was my mistake.

Don't be afraid to use connections when you can. As they say, it's not about what you know, it's who you know. But you need to be proactive in this rather than throwing up your hands and saying that God will handle it. You apparently did that last time and look where it got you!

You're anything but alone in the fight, Bushie.  Even if we think it was a stupid thing to do, we're all hoping for you too.

And damn do some of us know how some employers can be.  They can jettison you in an instant, but so help you God you don't give 2 weeks notice.  I can definitely empathize with your objective BushOK.  A lot of employers want to be cheapskates right now and love the current workers' mentality of "I'll take anything."  This is a race to the bottom and could lead to a deflationary spiral we don't need right now.  IMO, now more than ever we need EFCA passed, but it seems to be stalled.  That would be FAR more important than the health care bill. 

One of my friends just called me and gave an interesting scenario that I had not thought of, and I wanted to pass it by you guys and see what you think.

Susan and I want to move to Arizona in 2012.  This friend told me to go ahead and start looking in Arizona now and if I get a job down there in the place we want to live, then take my fiancee', elope, and get moved down there.  As far as my house is concerned, talk to people at church and rent it out for three or four years so I wouldn't have to sell it and have to pay back the government.  Of course, she said definitely keep looking up here, but don't rule Arizona out right now, either.

You're trying to do way too much at once. How much time can you be unemployed before you start having trouble paying your bills etc. 2012 is far out and the world may end then!

Planning on getting married sooner instead of putting all your energies into getting your old job back?  Hmmmm

I'd focus on one thing at a time for now. Quick reinstatement of stable employment should be goal number one. There are a lot of factors to consider when making a big move, so I think you ought to clear your mind of any Arizona moves for the time being. A move like that can't be a spur-of-the-moment thing ... it takes lots of planning and, most of all, patience.

Plus, Susan strikes me as someone who wants a traditional wedding, especially given all the planning you've done so far. I'd hate to see too many radical shifts in priority too quickly that may damage the relationship.

Right. If you start freaking out, she may do the same and your whole relationship may go up in smoke.

Yeah, I won't rush into anything, anymore.  I definitely want to get a job back at ONG, anywhere within the company.  It doesn't matter if it's Customer Accounting where I was at, or the call center, or meter reading, service tech, dispatch.  Wherever, I'm willing.  On the chance they won't hire me back anywhere, I've sent in several applications and have places in mind to visit and to call on Monday and Tuesday.  I'm trying to get in ahead of the game here since I've only got a 6-week window here before my funds really dry up.  This friend also advised to look ANYWHERE (legit that is :) ), in an effort for me to buy time.

I'll be alright.  I've got friends helping me out, and thank you Jesse for being one of them.  Thank you to the rest of you for your support.  That does mean a lot. 

I'm not freaking out as bad right now as I was earlier in the day.  I'm just trying to figure out a game plan for this week.  Like I said, I want ONG back and that would be most ideal, but I can't rely on that alone, so I'm being proactive and sending out applications and resumes and am lining up places to visit early in the week.

Like I said earlier, once I find a job, I'm going to kill that e-mail account that the scam was sent to me on.  Career Builder has none other of my e-mails.  Monster has one, but I don't even read their e-mails or updates and they always find my trash can right when I get them.  I'll just have to relocate my Atlas e-mails and notifications somewhere else before I kill the account.

Just find a job, get married, and keep it at that for now. Dont worry about deleting emails, or anything like that. Your going to get emails like that all the time. If you didnt apply for a position with any company and you get one, just delete it. I just dont understand how this really turned into something that big here.  Just try and get your job back, or find a new job. Stop saying that your going to put this into Gods hands. You got your last job, YOU got that email, YOU decided to quit your last job for this "new" one, YOU learned that it was a scam, and YOU have to find new employment.

 Life is difficult, but so easy at the same time. You only get to ride this crazy thing once, so you might as well make it wort it, but just dont jump into things. God isnt there making every desision for you. Its you doing that. Think things out, and enjoy life while you can.

 

Can you move to your parents' basement?  (does he have parents?  Is Oklahoma one of those states without basements?  maybe they live in a trailer?)

Tornadoes & whatnot

That's good - so maybe they have a basement.

BUSHOK, do you have parents?  Do they have a basement?  Can you move to that basement?

(don't worry too much about the Brown Recluse, its better than under the Bridge).

By the way if you keep asking us to 'Pray for you' we might take offense..

They do live in a mobile home, so no basement.

Dam. Spare room?  Some of those Mo-Biles are pretty big.  Is it a sixteen by eighty?

Ok, seriously, why is it no one doubts the authenticity of BushOK?

Because we know far too much about him and the details gel? You can't make an entire life up; all the sock accounts remain curiously hazy as people no matter how welldeveloped their political views.
nomo's sock MissCatholic excepted... but that's exactly why we all knew who it was.

I do.  Nobody can come off as this dense and still be a real person.

"Here's hopin' Jebus finds me a new jorb before the scammers steals my monies!"

Every time I've said he's putting us on no one agrees.  But just in case he's real we have to give him the best advice for the scenario we can, especially since HE asks for it.

I think there's unanimous consent that Blubb is the most skilled of the trolls around here, but if Bushie isn't real, he makes Blubb look like a kindergarten troll.

BushOK seems to genuine to be a sock/fake person. He even has a facebook that people post on which seems difficult to do if you weren't real unless he maintains hundreds of fake facebook accounts too. He was just incredibly dense through all of this. It's a learning lesson the hard way.

I guess Joe and I are the only two who are having trouble with his genuineness.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=120859.msg2588866#msg2588866

I'm not saying I am not having trouble with it! I am having a hard time believing someone can be that dense when it comes to something like this, and it seems like BushOK's life has been one hilarious event after the other over the course of the past year or so which seems almost impossible. You HAD to believe something bad would happen before his wedding, whether it was he moved to Arizona prematurely, eloped, etc... but I didn't see this coming.

Sorry, friend.  ;)  Welcome to the club.

While I agree that it's tough to see how someone can be this dense and naive about this sort of thing, plenty of people in real life somehow are. As I said earlier, look at all the folks who fall for those Nigerian scams. Even this isn't quite as transparent as that.

There does appear to be a sort of "blind faith" mindset that leads to this sort of thing that I've noticed, I remember reading about one old retiree who was scammed out of life savings by Nigerian scammers and it said the main thing that caused him to actually buy into it was the "God bless you" at the end of the email, he thought "Well God sometimes brings us opportunities like this for a reason", BushOklahoma sort of seemed to think the same way. Considering this is the same type of crowd who donate money to the likes of Benny Hinn it starts to make more sense.

Maybe it's because they only read one book? So they miss obvious hints when presented with any other type of writing.

But he never bothers to take our advice. He wants everyone to post what a genius he is and how he's doing the right thing....and when that doesn't happen, he posts about how God is leading the way....and that he knows best for himself.

He doesn't want advice. He wants attention.

Spot on :)

It's impossible for him to be a fake. The Facebook activity is far too complex to not be real.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Everything about him is too complex. Parts of his back story may be embellished. That's true of a lot of members though.

The conspiracy, should it be the case, would be a blend between reality [his life] and his wild story [which he made special mention to ask us not to mention to any of his Facebook friends].

But his scammer was a rather obscure one, but an actual scammer.  One would almost have to have been propositioned with such a scam offer, and then create a story based around a hypothetical.  And then the conspiracy becomes so deep and complex that it's probably not a conspiracy and just an overactive imagination

His Facebook does have the story of the scam on it, but I think as people relationships as he has on there, he's a legit person.

Alright, tomorrow morning, i will wake up early, around 7:00 and then call the human resources department at ONG at 8:15 (give them time to get into the office).  Depending on what i hear there, I'm going to go to a couple different places tomorrow and look to see what I can find.  I'm hoping above all hope that I can get back on with ONG in some capacity.  Like I said, even if it's not my old job, then the call center, meter reading, service tech, dispatch.  Whatever, I'll take it.

I just saw my fiancee' this evening as we went to a home Bible Study and had fellowship.  I was crying on the inside because I feel i've let her down.  However, I know that if I just work at it long enough, and be patient, but don't be picky, I'll find a job fairly soon.  Like I said, I've got enough funds to last me until mid-September, which is not long, but hopefully, I can find something long before then.  I am really hoping I can be working again before this week ends.

Just out of curiosity, what are Susan's thoughts on all this?

Or more importantly, does she know?

She understands I was just trying to make things better for us, albeit in a foolish manner, but she understands where I'm coming from, but is glad that I've cut my ties to the company.  She doesn't like the fact that I quit ONG in a rush, but she's not mad or anything.

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Dude you didn't misjudge the timeline, you purposefully destroyed the timeline by giving no notice and just quitting.

Now get out a big fork and start eating crow.

There is a lesson here about not quitting your job without two weeks notice. Even if you get a new obviously legitimate one it's quite possible it just won't work out. In BushOK's case if he had bothered to do so he could've just rescinded his resignation now and the whole thing would've just have been a rather embarrassing experience instead of the crisis it is now.

I wonder how things went today? I'm surprised he hasn't updated us yet with the latest breaking news.

This thread is a f'ing train wreck. And nobody can stop watching.

Mostly because you knew that train was coming, and only BushOK lacked the foresight to notice. I am almost certain there will be another twist to this before it's over. I see a move to Arizona and a shotgun wedding on the horizon if Susan doesn't get cold feet and leave first.

Very true, though in general it is highly inadvisable for any poor to quit a job, and most particularly a job at a public utility.

Really BushOK was incredibly lucky to have as good a position as he had - the majority of poors work for $7-8/hour and have to do backbreaking labour.

Working at a big box store or fast food outlet is backbreaking labour? We have illegals to do the hard jobs.

Yes, obviously.  If you think otherwise you have no idea what it is like.

I once worked at a supermarket for a day, and I was required to stand up the entire time!  I was shocked.

I have a hard labor job where I make $9 an hour interning at a law firm too. I understand opebo's plight! I haven't had a thing to do productive all day! Just standing and sitting at a computer with occasional request to go to the courthouse which is an unreasonable 2 blocks away!

Spoiled boy, imagine being required to stand on a concrete floor for 4 hours, then 4 hours again after a brief eating-break.  Do you not understand that this will cause severe pain in legs and feet, and in many cases permanent damage?

Man up dude.  I'm glad you have a soft job and stipend to ease the pain.  ;)

So says another privileged.  How many fat assed office workers sitting in ergonomic chair will we hear from?

The term 'back-breaking labor' implies labour which causes physical pain, exhaustion, and even physical changes.  I for one certainly believe that the toils forced upon poors at the Fast Food restaurant and the 'Big Box' store fit that definition perfectly.

I wouldn't mind your offensive disregard for their condition if they were getting a $35/hour union wage, full benefits, and retirement, but they get less than subsistence.  (I grew up around construction guys who suffered abominably due to toils, but at least they got a living out of it).

I guess you can't call me out opie. I've put in my fair share of 16 hour days.

Well you haven't made the assertion from a well-padded desk chair that people toiling in Fast Food or Retail shops aren't doing hard labours.

They are doing hard labours.......but they don't whine like you're doing.

Here is an update:  I went two places today and applied at a couple other places.  The first thing  did, though, was call ONG's HR department and he is going to sit down with the HR manager and the hiring supervisor of my department and see what he can do.  He should let me know by tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest.  One job I should hear back from either the end of the day today or first thing tomorrow.  It's not much different than what I was doing before, with basically the same pay, except a little farther drive.

For the sake of gasoline, I am through searching for today, and will resume early tomorrow morning after I vote.  (Oklahoma's primary is tomorrow).

Thank you for reminding me not to vote in our useless elections.

They bloody well aught to whine, GG.  Accepting miseries imposed on you by force by your betters is not a sign of strength of character - its a sign of weakness.

Do you know that in Europe cashiers sit on little seats, GG?

I was very surprised when I saw that as an 8-year-old.

Like Thai hookers?

Well, its not a good example as they actually recline in their work, much less have to stand up all day.

1) Yeah that's not encouraging.

2) How is that possible for any job other than a minimum wage one?  No one knows that fast or is that desperate considering you only called on them today.

What job could BushOK possibly get other than a minimum wage one?

Heck if I went back to the Bad Place that's all I could get.

Opie, you could bring some ladies back with you and be a pimp. Lol

Ugh.  Little life lesson for you fellows - don't ever turn what you love into a job.  You'll just ruin the fun in it.

I think you'd probably be able to do better than minimum wage, although you'd have to keep your attitude hidden. As an employer, I don't like it when my employees try to tell me what they believe themselves to be worth. But they're all making far beyond minimum wage, too.

Maybe they just don't believe in interviews in Oklahoma? Yeah, weird.



So you'll never be a porn star?

I don't think it's all that strange. He had a job there as of just a few days ago, so he wouldn't need to go through a lot of the formalities of a typical interview. And maybe they're just seeing if they can pull some strings and place him in his old spot or elsewhere within the company where a transition would be easy.

He tried calling me back today, but I missed his phone call by just one second.  I called the number back and left a message on his phone since it was already 4:30, so he should try to call me tomorrow morning.  I will also call my supervisor first thing in the morning.

Here is my agenda for Tuesday -

5:30 am - Wake Up
6:00 am - Eat Breakfast
7:00 am - Start Waiting on Calls
7:30 am - Call my Supervisor
8:00 am - Leave line open for any other calls
6:00 pm - Vote
7:00 pm - Watch Election Returns

I'm not going to go anywhere other than to vote unless I get a call directing me to go somewhere or get a negative call.

Where does Christmas/Wedding planning fit in?

I don't mean his old job, obviously his supervisor and HR should be able to decide without an interview.  I meant that some other job might not require an interview, although it's unclear what "hear back from" means.

I went through a temp agency to update my profile from 2007, the last time i was in there, and had a specific job in mind when i went to apply.  The guy at said temp agency said he would get in touch with them and let me know.

They remain to be seen.  The Wedding plans are still going to happen as planned, unless I don't have a job by September 1.  Then, we'll postpone it for a while.  Christmas, is... well... Christmas.  Of course, it would be more enjoyable if I had a job living in my own house.

Keep your phone handy! You missed my call, too!

Why does it take you an hour to eat breakfast?

Also what kind of terrible job starts at 7:00 in the morning?!

It doesn't take me an hour, but there was other stuff in the middle of that hour that I chose not to mention.

Very good jobs.  I'd rather start at 7:00 than 8:00, because I get off earlier.

I tried to call you  back, jesse, but you didn't answer.

I was playing games with some of the guys from church as well as Susan.

Does Bushie not have a cell phone? He can't be out doing something and take a call? Even my grandmother had one before she passed away.

And if he's home is it not a portable home phone?  Damn man, take it in the latrine with you if need be.......don't miss calls!!!!!

6:00-6:15 - eat breakfast
6:15-6:45 - epic poop
6:45-7:00 - complete breakfast transaction

I do have a cell phone, and he called it yesterday afternoon, but I picked up the phone just after he hung up.  Doh!!!

Still no word today, yet. :(

Lots of people at my job actually considering the shift starting at 6AM desirable. Never got it.

What happened to 7:30 "Call my supervisor"?

I've been trying every 20 minutes since 7:30 and no one is answering...

Yeah. Time to stop, I think. Have you ever considered cleaning toilets?

Toilets are cleaned in Oklahoma?

I hear Domino's will hire anybody without a criminal record, at least in Ithaca.  get weekend shifts and you'll occasionally eke out a living wage incl. tips.

Well thanks for the encouraging words (however little I believe them), but obviously I never reveal anything in real life exept the most obsequious a*s-kissing.  What sort of employer are you, J-Mann?

Feeling bad now for Bushie......  :(  Just past high noon and nada.

It'll be alright.  After HR's lunch hour, I'm tempted to walk in there and see what I can come up with.

Take your cell phone with ya.

No returned calls is not encouraging. Surely he's been back in his office by now. Not working a 2 week notice may have been the nail in your coffin. They may be afraid to hire you back if you are going to just quit without notice a few weeks later.

Well, scratch ONG off the list. :(  They don't rescind resignation letters of any length.

It's a shame.....but think about it, would you not do the same in their position?

The probably don't because of the way it was handled. If you just up and quit, it looks much worse than if you worked your two weeks, gave them time to hire someone else, and then left. Instead, they were left high and dry.

Move on to the next one.

I've got a bit of good news to report.  I was looking in our Sunday newspaper this afternoon for the fourth time and found an administrative assistant and light sales position for a health care company in Oklahoma City.  It would pay $600 per week plus benefits and it would be a blend of little home, but mostly office work.  They want me to come in for an interview this evening at 7:00.

My Dad told me that if the company looks reputable and they want me, TAKE IT!!!

They want to interview you? That's more than what ON-Company wanted. If they do, then take it. Unless something big comes along, you don't want to stay unemployed very long.


Good luck.

Yes, and it's only 11 1/2 miles from my house instead of thousands of miles of land plus thousands of miles of ocean plus a hemisphere away.

That ON Company didn't have a location, so use dwelling on where it was. It didn't exist.

At least this one seems to have a physical person, location and legitimate interest in interviewing you, not just offering you twice the way with no explanation at all behind it.

In case Ameripride falls through tonight, I've got another interview tomorrow morning at 11:15 with a marketing company located here in Oklahoma City just north of the OKC Airport.  This would have a guaranteed salary and benefits of $3,000 a month (IN WRITING) for Platinum Services.

So, I've suddenly gone from a hopeless case of despair about 3:00 this afternoon to 2 interviews within the next 24 hours just 90 minutes later at the current time of 4:30.

Don't they have Real Companies in Oklahoma?  I mean, I know Real Ones only pay $7-8/hour, but anyway they're real.

Yes, but I can't make $1,300 a month worth of bills on $8.00 an hour.

Well how does the rest of the country do it?

(seriously I don't know how about 60% of the population even survives)

A variety of means. Help from family. Crime. Government assistance. Not paying bills. Charity. A combination of many of these.

Well, I know that the poor live very short lives - usually dying off somewhere between 30s and late 50s - but, still that's still a lot of months to months, and hand-to-mouths.  It really is astounding they live even as long as they do.

No, not usually. Patterns of early death usually follow patterns of class pretty closely, but nowhere in the 'West' (well, outside certain small groups on the margins of society) is early death the norm. It's not 1842 anymore, thank God.

Ironically, my company does much of what BushOK's scam company claimed to do -- web design, web application development, consulting and hosting ... except we're a legitimate company!


This is encouraging. I'm sorry to hear about ONG, but it sounds as if a couple of better opportunities may have presented themselves. The administrative assistant job alone pays better than ONG, although make sure to clarify what "light sales" means. Cold-calling or sales in general can be miserable if you're not prepared for it ... I know a few very good salespeople, and a lot of people that just plain suck at it.

As others have said, I think if something seems stable, legitimate and pays more than ONG, you should take the opportunity.


I don't see much -- if any -- poverty where I'm at. True, the cost of living is significantly lower, but even my college interns make $11 an hour plus commission and bonuses. I'm not sure I know anyone who makes $7 or $8 an hour as an adult.

J-Mann, stop poking holes in Opebo's narrative conceit.  He has put a lot of time and thousands of posts constructing this and it is not right.

In the meantime BushOK ought to hit up the temp agencies. You can actually get fairly decent jobs from them, temporary of course and not the best, but working for 6 weeks at $11/hour while you search for a permanent job beats sitting on your ass or working at McDonald's in the meantime.

Wow, the job market sounds a lot better there than it is here. And of course one can live on these kinds of money there. Here, you'd be screwed with that kind of money, and you need 6 digits to consider buying a house in any sort of reasonable neighborhood.

In case you haven't read facebook in the past 5 minutes or less - I HAVE A JOB!!!!  The company is actually called Ameriplan, not Ameripride.  It is a work-from-home job, but I have local offices to go to when i need it.  The headquarters is located in Plano, Texas, but has operations in all 50 states.  I will basically be doing marketing.  The company promotes benefits packages that no employer will ever give, such as dental insurance with no annual cap, also vision, medical, great prescription benefits covering up to 85% on some meds.  Also included is ID theft protection, 24/7 credit monitoring, automobile maintenance discounted, as well as numerous discounts at a lot of retailers and restaurants.  The benefits are effective immediately, there is no waiting period.  For an entire household, the whole schebang runs $50.00 a month.  There is also a live nurse on call 24/7/365 to help curb some late night trips to the ER.  There is a base salary of $600 per week plus what I make from the sales, and I will have meetings to go to about 2 or 3 evenings a month here in Oklahoma City.  I get the same benefits that I market.  On the days that I do have meetings, i will work 7:30-2:30, normally it is 7:30-4:30.  I also have free conference calls at 8:00 each morning just to give encouragement to and get encouragement from my peers and supervisors.  I don't have to do any prospecting or cold calling.  I will generate leads through a variety of sources, including, but not limited to the newspaper, craigslist, etc.  They will, in turn, call me and I will always have the support of my boss  There are no chargebacks, no monthly quotas, no persistency requirements.  They have an A rating with the BBB.

I am very pleased and very excited.  I will get started on Friday, July 30, 2010

Congrats. I hope it works out for you!

That is fantastic, Jeff. Congratulations! I'm glad that everything worked out for you and hope this new job works out well ... and hopefully, all of this was a bit of a learning experience, too :)

It does sound as if you'll be more marketing oriented, but I know a bit about sales :)  Feel free to reach out to me if you need some encouragement as you get started in this new endeavor.

PS: do keep your ears to the ground for other opportunities. Ameriplan is one of those multi-level marketing IBOs that looks great but can be a lot of hard work and has likely maxed out its full potential for individual representatives. Make sure that there is actually a guaranteed salary involved (beyond sales).

The good news is - I already have benefits.  There is no waiting period for this stuff.

I have a conference call at 8:00 tomorrow morning, followed by some online training, but my first day of actual work will be this Friday, July 30, 2010.

I've been employed for a few months and I don't even have that.

Waiting around for ObamaCare to kick in and for me to leach off my parent's health insurance plan.

Hold them to it! Get an employment agreement, a benefits summary and guarantee, and document everything!

If the term "multi level marketing" is involved, I hate to say this, but that's a code word for a pyramid scheme. Not nearly as much of a scam as the last one, but make sure they don't charge you for any training materials or anything of the sort and that there is indeed a guaranteed base salary regardless of any sales you may or may not make.

Many people have lost their family and friends over MLMs. Be wary.

This is no MLM, and there is a base salary of $600 per week.

Think of it as a base + commission instead of MLM.

I didn't have to pay a dime to get started.

Jesse, I will indeed hold them to it.

So long as that base is guaranteed even if you don't make a single sale, it sounds ok then--make sure there's nothing in the fine print about having to hit any sort of sales quotas. I'm not saying they don't have a right to expect you to be successful at what you do, but these types of jobs can be very stressful and you will likely be under constant pressure to sell, sell, sell.

Also try to check into whether they do things like dock your pay for customers leaving the program or the like, that's another way these places will sometimes get you. Or at the very least take it out of future commissions.

Budget based on the assumption that you will make zero commission and then any you do earn is gravy.

From everything I've read about it online, I'd be very nervous about this. But good luck, my friend.

There are no chargebacks, no monthly quotas, and no persistency requirement.

Oh, and the wedding plans will NOT be postponed, at least for now!!!!

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Alternative-Health/AmeriPlan-USA/ameriplan-usa-took-away-my-bro-ceje3.htm

http://www.articlesbase.com/home-business-articles/is-ameriplan-a-scam-or-legit-opportunity-ameriplan-review-1454653.html

http://www.watchforscams.com/ameriplan_scam.html

There are also some positive reviews out there for what it's worth.

Best of Luck. 

Let me also preemptively say, NO, I would not like to hear about the benefits of Ameriplan. 

Meeker,

Your articles gave me a lot of confidence in this company.  I am going to do my best to make this work, because my fiancee' depends on it.

Also, I'm not going to say anything of the benefits of my company initially, all I will do is point them to my website.  Then, if they want to know more, I will point them to my supervisor and if not, that's fine, too.

The median wage in the US is apparently about $26 000. That would be $14-15 per hour based on an average work year of 1777 hours (which is what wikipedia tells me).

So, Opebo is living in fantasyland as usual.

How? Did you see his last link?

"Ameriplan is a MLM business opportunity and shares most of the characteristics of network marketing.

The success factor in network marketing is all about leverage as it works on geometric expansion.

You can leverage your time and increase the number of hours of work effort on which you can be paid by sponsoring other people and earning an income off their efforts.

All MLM/network marketing models require distributors to buy in either through the purchase of products or special licenses. There is also a strong focus on not just the selling of the product, but also recruiting new distributors. There is often also a big push by upline members [the sellers above you] to purchase training materials and attend conferences. "

Did you read that?  WTF?

I don't think he read them... Sounds like a pryamid to me..

Bushie says guaranteed no MLM and no chargebacks.......that's not what the last link says.  I mean what kind of sh**tty research is he doing?  I remember hearing how he researched and left no stone unturned for the ON company......ha.   When you're blind, you don't see what's right there.  He owes Meeker, big time.  Each of the links tells the real tale - scam.

Jeff, have you done sales before of this kind? It's very different from marketing or any other job where you put in your work and you get a salary. You can work very hard but if it isn't something you are good at, you will find yourself out of a job and with less money than when you started. That $600/week will be withdrawn. Perhaps you'll turn to friends and family and sell to them first before reaching that point, and it will destroy your relationships with them. Do you believe in the product AmeriPlan sells? What about the reports all over the web about how hard it is to use and how much it costs for what you get? You need to be able to address that before you can sell it to others in good faith.

I have to wish you good luck in this, but I am not optimistic that this will turn out to be a real job.

I just hope that he stops himself before approaching his family and his fiancee's family to buy AmeriPlan memberships because his supervisor is using these "supportive" phone calls to abuse him for not providing the sales he needs, and the wedding is coming up. I don't know if he'll listen, though.

Considering the demographics of the forum, I'm mildly surprised we've never had a thread where one of our teenaged posters starts regaling us with the wonders of Cutco knives.  Only a matter of time, I suppose.

This thread is getting depressing.

I have a set of those! I wouldn't be caught selling them any time soon, but they are damn good knives.


At the very least, this one isn't money laundering! BushOK made it sound as if there was a guarantee with this, and hopefully that's not the "average IBO makes $600 a week" guarantee. He'll have to get that all figured out. His descriptions thus far have made it seem like he'll be helping someone else who's doing it ... but I may be misinterpreting the standard MLM speak.

Jeff, brittain is right -- sales is tough. It is the most challenging job I've ever done and is consistently disappointing and stressful ... and I'm selling something I believe in 100 percent! But there are some people who are just wired for it. If that's you, you might be able to make a go of this. If not, it can be miserable.

Let us know what you find out about the weekly pay ... is it guaranteed and not dependent on sales?

They had the words NO CHARGEBACKS written in big letters on their presentation.  They also had NO MONTHLY QUOTAS and NO PERSISTENCY REQUIREMENTS.  Now, the last article did mention that if the customer backs out you would not receive income from him anymore, which is true.  A chargeback means you would have to pay back ALL the premiums he paid, which is not the case.

Anyhew, I've got another interview this morning at 11:15, so I'm going to see what it's all about and then weigh apples to apples.

At least i've got something.  It may not be everybody's version of a "good" job, but it could at least pay the bills for me.

Now, if this interview here at 11:15 comes up with something better, then I'll compare apples to apples and decide which one I want.  I am encouraged, though, that no matter what happens I will be working by the end of the week.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein.

Jeff: we are concerned that it isn't what you would consider a good job, either. It won't provide the stability you need nor use your skills, and you will find yourself worse off for having taken it rather than waiting for something more reputable. It won't pay the bills after the first week or so, is the concern. The reason you have been picked up for positions like this so very, very quickly is that they rely on people who are in great need of finding work right away and will take any offer they get that looks reasonable to them. They know that most people they hire won't pan out in this role and can be replaced quickly with the next guy who thinks he is getting a steady job that will pay the bills, too.

I'm glad you have another interview with a more traditional job as an administrative assistant. Please do take a very close look at that apple before you compare--both the positive spots they are promising you right now, and blemishes people are pointing out to you about the skills this job needs and how difficult it is to succeed. You need stability above all else and a job in sales for a questionable product will not provide it.

I got a letter from someone in nigeria about my uncle dying. Should I send some money to get his insurance money?

Just go into town and apply at McDonalds.  The internet is your worst enemy at this point.

Let me put it this way.

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the devil.

But I believe there are bad people out there who will pretend to be your friends and tempt you with offers that are too good to be true, playing off of your good faith and goodness as a person, only to take from you what you have and leave you and your loved ones worse off than before. They thrive in our world, abusing other people's trust and turning it into their own livelihood. You may think of this as the devil at work, or sinners, but it is a truth of our world that we can all agree on.

I don't know how you cope with the presence of evil like this in the world. It is hard. You can't close your eyes and hope that God will lead you in the right direction. You know, and I see that you know, that you have to gather up as much information as you can and hope you make the right decision. Part of this can be through doing web searches, but it is not enough. You need to build on your own knowledge from your previous jobs. The pay has to match what you know your labor is worth; the tasks have to be what you know you can do well. Ask yourself why they would hire you and not someone else. And if you want to trust a job, it has to look something like what you know from work you've already done. It has to look familiar and draw on the wisdom you have gained as an adult. If it is very different and looks too good to be true, if it isn't familiar to you, it's probably a false gift that will leave you worse off than before. This is how our world works.

Again, I do not know if you believe in the devil. But if you do, you will see his handiwork in ON-company and in AmeriPlan. I have complete faith in that and hope you can believe that we are sincere and deeply concerned in expressing this to you.

There is reasonable money to be made waiting tables. It's pretty demanding and the money's not 100% consistant, but it's a decent temporary job that's fairly easy to get.

Or just go to a temp agency like I said. Worse things than getting $11/hour to do data entry for six weeks.

Yeah, I don't see bushie busing tables.

How do you like driving a truck? I hear that pays fairly well.

The other people on the road are the biggest problem. Many people don't know how to drive properly on the interstate. But the job does pay well if you work for a company. I'll probably walk away with 60k this year which is pretty good money for Florida.

Well, at least it's a slow train wreck as opposed to a fast train wreck.

Totally.
Actually, I think it would be a better idea if you left them your bank account number and your social security, that way it is MUCH EASIER to put money into your account and they know you are a very trustworthy person.
[/Extreme Sarcasm]

Yes, the median, Gustaf - which obviously means that half the population is living on less than that, and it is quite likely that millions upon millions are in fact living on $7-8/hour.  So nothing about your post refuted any of my remarks, and we're still left with the question - how do these millions survive on $7-8/hour?


The life of most people is depressing Gustaf - life is misery, at least for the vast majority.  Even for those who are privileged, such as yourself, pain and suffering are the norm near the end of life.  Wake up and smell the stench of death, Gustaf - the world sucks.

I name this thread "Traincrash". May God bless her and all who sail in her.

This other interview didn't turn out so well.  I'm not going to even do it.  My mother and dad are optimistic about Ameriplan and they know I can do it.  They just want me to have a job, and have a job now, and this is not the worst thing in the world.  This job can pay pretty well, if I am willing to put in the work required, which I am, and Mom and Dad know that.  See, I need something that will help cover $3,000 in medication.  This company will allow me to do that, or at least get it down to a more manageable $1,000-$2,000.

This other job would have required be to be away from home from early Monday morning clear through to midnight Friday morning sleeping in hotels away fro m my fiancee'.  It would be very hard to plan a wedding being gone 3 nights a week and would be even harder being gone 3 nights a week when trying to nurture a brand new marriage.

At least with Ameriplan, it will still be hard initially to plan the wedding, but I have 8 months to save up and grow my business and the marriage would be off to a more financially stable foot, since the presentation he gave me yesterday absolutely said NO chargebacks.

...

Yeah.

I wish someone could have offered better advice to the parents about what this opportunity really is or isn't, but they'll learn.

The Problem is that the people whose advice he listens to are just as naive...

How old are you?

Yep, as I first feared. Pyramid scheme (that's what MLM stands for).

Whether they are a scam or not is I guess a matter of opinion. Some people do indeed make money, a lot of it, and most of these companies do manage to stay just this side of legal (the company itself makes oodles of cash and so can afford good lawyers to ensure it all skates on the right side of the thin edge of the ice).

But you have to be able to convince other people to become brokers/representatives in order to make any real cash. If they cite "average" income figures, they are almost certainly a mean which is highly skewed by a tiny percentage of very well to do reps at the top of the pyramid.

I sold Cutco for one summer during college. I ended up at least making enough to pay for the knives that I had to buy to get started (I didn't actually make any profit but being 19 and on summer break I didn't really care anyway). But yeah, they are great knives, I still have them and getting them for free was I guess an ok deal (I only did it for about 2-3 weeks). It's just kinda hard to make money selling them since not many people want to pay hundreds of dollars for knives and even fewer want you to try to convince them to.

No Nym, I don't want any damn knives. :D

And oh yeah, your "upline" will be constantly telling you that if you just work harder, you'd make money, and the fact that you aren't is your own fault and of course not the system. Get used to that.

Anyway, I hope it works out for you. Just be aware that 97 percent of people in MLMs make no money at all and usually lose money actually. The document that Meeker linked to did indeed show that there were start up fees, training kits, etc.

Is Avon considered that Nym?

Absolutely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avon_Products

Aren't they fairly legit though?

I think the advantage Avon has is positive name recognition and a core product line. Maybe AmeriPlan will have that, too, though I'd never heard of them before now. When you think of other MLMs like Amway, there are literally hundreds of products that you can sell and a negative connotation with the name. Avon doesn't seem to have that ... a lot of women not only know it and think well of it, they need it.

Ah yes, Amway.

http://www.workathomenoscams.com/2007/09/25/is-ameriplan-usa-a-work-at-home-scam/

I think this thread gave me a migraine.

It was pretty obvious that Bushie should have dropped this and stayed at Oklahoma Natural Gas by the start of Page 2.  By Page 3, it was just unbelievable that he hadn't already.   By Page 22, I'm at a complete loss.

I would make sure all references to your real name are removed from this thread if they exist, Jeffrey.  If I was an employer, this thread shows poor judgment and an inability to listen to others' ideas.  I would not hire you after reading this.


Yeah, the makeup companies are probably the only legitimate version of this.  Mainly because they actually have a product to sell.  I imagine these schemes would work with Apple and Dell brand electronics, farm fresh wholesale produce, and other products that people... you know... actually buy.

Warren Buffet's first rule of business is to only invest in products you would use yourself.  Take that one to the bank.

Well at least they give you reassurance.

FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FINE PRINT! FOR GOD SAKES MAN READ THE FINE PRINT.  NO MONTHLY QUOTAS COULD JUST MEAN NO MONTHLY QUOTAS FOR THE FIRST MONTH.  THEY JUST PUT THAT PART IN REALLY TINY TYPE.  IT'S LIKE 0% INTEREST FOR 6 MONTHS.  THE GIANT 0% IS BIG BUT THE 6 MONTHS IN SMALLER TYPE IS BIGGER. AAAAH!!!!

Well, now I know what it would have felt like to be in observation of the Titanic sinking.

Except in this version, none of the passengers get off or seemed at all alarmed by the sudden angled tilt and rush of water into the cabins.   They all drown in place.  A surreal experience.

I actually applied for a Cutco sales job and got accepted but was a bit more savvy than BushOK and realized what it was so I declined the orientation. Right after that I got the job I had the rest of my time in college.

I've been taken in by two of these scams before, one was one of those "GET PAID TO TAKE SURVEYS!" deal for only $20...which then turns out just gives you access to a bunch of companies that offer paid surveys which may or may not accept you for certain ones. Good thing it was only $20 and I made about $10 back from the paid surveys anyway. The other one was one that sells you training material for US Postal Service jobs that the USPS provides for free anyway and promises a refund if you fail to land a USPS job but only if you can meet all these criteria and fulfill the fine print. Luckily I managed to cancel my transaction on that one shortly after signing up and thus avoided the $180 hit.

But yes, BushOK needs to stay far from the internet. At least stick to Craigslist, you'd think it was a bit more scam-heavy, but they're actually good at either weeding out the scams or making them blatantly obvious (though with his naivete so far...) Local employment newsletters are a better deal, they aren't completely scam-free but have a much higher ratio than most of what you see on the internet, I got my current job from one. Temp agencies also have the advantage of often being used as recruitment methods by serious companies.

And worth noting, at least Cutco and Amway like Avon sell actual products that you might have a use for. Ameriplan doesn't.

I agree with BRTD.  Get a temp job.

And maybe find your local employment agency for advisement.  They won't set you up on scam central.

You can try to make a go of this, BushOK, but I would keep on the lookout for other jobs. I still don't get it ... they "guaranteed" $600 a week. Did you ever confirm what this meant? It could have been an average based on sales, or it could have been a legitimate guarantee. I'm guessing the former.

A few years ago, I had a friend of mine contact me about a "new business opportunity." He drove a couple of hours with a "business associate" to see me in my (very intimidating) office, and ended up trying to get me on board with Quixtar ... which is now been re-branded as Amway Global.

I was pissed that he tried to make me think he was into something legitimate but knew he was under pressure to bring affiliates on board. I ran an office at the time and figured I could use the little bullsh**t online store to purchase a regular stream of supplies. The promised income never came (despite purchasing hundreds of dollars per month in office supplies through the Quixtar store), and I dropped them like a hot rock later. I didn't have the time to devote to making it work, but had I been otherwise unemployed, I possibly could have ... but it was high pressure from the get-go.

Don't take yourself off the job market yet, Jeff -- this could work out, as MLM opportunities do for some people. I have some serious doubts, and since MLMs are traditionally billed as supplemental income, you'll have time to get out there and search for something else while trying to make due with this job.

And again, I'd get clarification on the guarantee. I'm worried that the $600 per week is nothing more than an average statistic that they threw at you. In fact, I've never known an MLM position to provide a base or benefits.

Jmann, given the content of this thread, the odds of this working out for Bush are less than negative one.  I already know he'll be posting how he's in even worse financial shape in a couple weeks.  It's pretty cruel to try and give him hope working at a company like that, akin to telling a rape victim thatt maybe her attacker loved her.

Brtd, craigslist has just as many scams.  My friend's sister got caught up in one like Bush's at the start of this thread.  But she also had ruined two, yes two, toasters on different occasions by putting the cheese on the bread before toasting

This fail thread has just been so awesome, I feel like I just had sex with tragedy 3 times over now! Now let's wait for that next shoe to fall, and I can take it for a ride again!

Next job: Mexican drug mule.  Hey, at least that could end up making money, unlike AmeriPlan

These kinds of companies are often legitimate in the sense that they're not illegal. They do however screw people over quite a bit, especially customers but also a lot of employees.

It's an ok gamble to work for this type of company when you're doing what Nym was doing - earning college money over the summer. It's not something to found a marriage upon.

I can see how you would get that idea from having no friends beyond the people you buy and no meaning to your life, but most people, including myself, are actually quite happy (at least in the Western world). The most recent figure from the US said about 84% were happy with their personal lives.

You constantly project your own misery onto the rest of the world - instead of facing up to the fact that you ed up your own life you try to feel better by making it seem as if everyone else's life is bad. It strikes me as a petty and silly thing to engage in.

And as regards minimum wages...oh dear. There you did it again. What is with you and the compulsive lying? You said that "the rest of the country" survived on 7-8 dollars, implying everyone except BushOK and then you clarified by saying that you didn't understand how 60% of the country survived, suggesting that you thought 60% lived on minimum wage. The actual figure is more like 1% (well, 2-3 if you divide by number of workers which seems more appropriate). It's 3.5 million people. Of course, half of them are 25 or younger so they may not be dependent on their wage anyway.

It's still a lot of people who do not have very much money, but I don't think it is stunning that the bottom percent of wage earners in the US are poor. You were, as usual, making things up to make it seem like everyone is poor but it was actually incorrect.

He'd describe it as coordinating the transportation of imported Mexican toys for children delivered to schools throughout the Southwestern U.S., and all from HOME!!!!!!!  Guaranteed pay $1000. a week!!!!  Whooooooo Hoooooooooo!!!  Wedding on!!

And of course, Mom and Dad approve.  ::)

There's an anti-Mary Kay Cosmetics website out there full of complaints about that company's recent policies.

There are certainly legitimate ones though, like Oriflame. Doesn't Tupperware work more or less this way too?

As a funny aside, I've been studying trust recently and apparently people who are less trusting are often easier to fool, for various reasons. These kind of companies are good examples of that - people get in on them to make money off of suckers stupid enough to buy the worthless products they're selling. But they don't realize they're getting fooled by the people above them.

No, it's not. It's not that hard to plan a wedding on weekends only and some phone calls in the evening. My partner and I did it without any parental involvement or support (guess why) in less time than you and Susan have, and it was a fabulous ****ing event that cost us a nice amount of money. Excuse my profanity.

I'm telling you this because in a few weeks you may be faced with choices of jobs that require hours or travel that conflict with what you perceive as your needs, and if you let "I need to plan every night" become an obstacle to taking one of those jobs, there won't be a wedding and there won't be money to pay for it.

Ouch! But I suppose you're right. It's been rather predictable from the get-go.


This is true, as well. All the timelines, countdowns and assumptions about "how things need to be done" will only impede what should be a top priority right now, which is legitimate employment. There are a ton of professions that separate couples for periods of time, and the couple is willing to do it because they know it'll make their futures stronger. I wouldn't let a little time on the road scare you from other opportunities that may present themselves.

I think these organizations have been conceived with the original sin that they will eventually max out their market, and from that point on individuals within the hierarchy are going to abuse their positions and their underlings to keep making the good money and keep ahead of their competitors. There's a Malthusian aspect that comes from expanding geometrically. It's equivalent to how polygamous communities eventually lead to child abuse, with boys expelled and girls married off too young, because men need to compete for wives.

Pyramid schemes have that inherent quality I suppose. I was thinking more of personal selling where you buy the product.

I'm thinking about when I read on the MK site about them changing the brand lines often so that salespeople are stuck with inventory they can't sell, but their managers make out well because they get a commission from all that restocking. I think with proper management and ethics from the top it can be a sustainable business model, but that means resisting the urge to keep adding more and more salesfolk to pad the bonuses of upper managers.

I have avoided BushOK's threads like they were the plague, but got conned into reading this one thanks to links in other threads. I now know better.

It amuses me that he's a moderator here. Amuses, not surprises.

My mom makes a lot of money in Tupperware sales and frequently travels around the state and sometimes even to Montana on the weekends to sell it. For some reason rural North Dakotans are the biggest on buying that stuff.

Of course it's far from her only job or primary source of income. Sometimes people can make money off this stuff, I know of a guy who made good money selling Cutco knives too. Just not something you can rely on.

And once again, note that Cutco and Tupperware sell actual products that you might have a use for, unlike Ameriplan.

What would you guys think of this scenario?  Take this other job, Platinum Services, that travels around the state of Oklahoma Monday-Thursday and then work this Ameriplan on weekends when I'm home.  The Platinum Services guy told me yesterday in the interview that I would get a $3,000 a month guarantee IN WRITING when I sign the contract.  It is a $3000 or commission meaning if my commssion is less than $3000 a month then I would be cut a check for the difference.  If my commission is more than $3000, then I would just get the commission, not the base.  It is a safety net.  I would be home by midnight Friday morning and I could still work Ameriplan on weekends and get a little residual income that way.  This is a scenario where I can do both.  He said that he rarely has to make up the difference and that I would basically need 10 sales a month to reach that, which is not hard to do considering I am on the road Monday-Thursday.  There is no follow up, there is no overhead.  This way, also, there is a safety net just in case Ameriplan busts wide open, I've got another income coming in.  While I am getting licensed with Platinum Services in the couple weeks, I could work Ameriplan part-time and still get some money that way, as well, and then when I'm home on Friday's, work 3 hours for Ameriplan.

()

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Insurance-Companies/Platinum-Services-Pl/platinum-services-platinum-ser-64m89.htm

File for unemployment (ONG probaby won't challenge it) then get a real job at a brick and mortar company.

How have you not drowned in your own bathtub yet?

Now if you can squeeze ON-Company in during your nights?

Seriously, find something at a real business, not one of these! It might not be the best job, but it sure beats some of these scams, and at least you'd be bringing in some income...

Quite frankly, I'm surprised Bushie hasn't deleted this thread yet.  It's what I would do if I were the OP.

(Not that I'm touching this: if he wants to reveal a sh**t-ton of personal information of himself and follow up by making himself look incredibly gullible, that's his business.)

Wow, I'm glad you posted that link.  That tells me what I need to know.  Then, forget that scenario, and i'll just go with Ameriplan.  At least I know it's legit.  My parents were even encouraged by it yesterday when they were at my house and my supervisor actually called me.  It tells them that I actually can talk to someone.  Tonight, they will get to hear his voice.  Most of you don’t know this, but I have actually worked for an MLM before.  It was with Primerica Life Insurance back in 2005-2006.  With them, it cost me $200 to get started plus $48 for the life insurance exam (which I had to take 7 times before passing), so that’s a total of $336 for the exam plus $200 for the initial fee = $556.00, which I never made up.  I got suckered into that by my youth minister of all people as he got suckered into it.  I did learn a lot of valuable financial tools, but it sure was hard.  Selling that stuff was the hardest thing in the world to do.  At least with Ameriplan, I don’t have to become licensed and I can use the same stuff I sell (benefits packages).  The benefits come out of my paycheck, and I have my own website.  This stuff should be a lot easier to sell, because it’s stuff people can actually use without having to jump through a lot of hoops such as blood tests or stuff.  If they want it, great, they can purchase it and start using it immediately, and for a lot less.  The most comprehensive package we sell costs just $50 a month.  Sell a few of those and I’ve already got a nice residual income each month.  One of my former co-workers said she used to do Ameriplan and she said if you work hard, you can do it and make good money.  It does take hard work, though, you can’t slack off, but it is definitely possible.  If I slack off, then you’re right, I won’t make a dime, but if I work as hard as I can, I can make it with this.

You know, I have been tempted to at least lock it.

Why would you delete/lock it? This thread is the reason you're not in prison

I had alarm bells going off with my family as well with that one.  This one, they're easier with.

Because, I have people here at home who used to do it or are still doing it saying it can be done if you just work hard.

How do you keep stumbling onto all these scams? One after another...

I am going to lock this thread and let it sink down to the back pages, because I don't need discouragement when I'm trying to do the best job I can for my family.