Atlas Forum

Atlas Fantasy Elections => Regional Governments => Topic started by: A-Bob on November 18, 2010, 01:16:33 pm



Title: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on November 18, 2010, 01:16:33 pm
Spending ($196.40 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($14.72 billion)
$8.01 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$3.25 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.11 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.06 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$0.87 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($35.12 billion)
$19.12 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$12.97 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$3.03 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($58.85 billion)
$35.87 billion .... Medicaid grants (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... State Children's Health Insurance (No Change)
$0.59 billion ...... Indian health (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.97 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$0.89 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$7.01 billion ...... Prescription drug benefit (No Change)
$0.98 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($10.05 billion)
$0.3 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$8.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$1.70 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($26.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$1.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($12.45 billion)
$7.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$2.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$1.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($163.75 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($15.53 billion)
$7.50 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$4.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($7.09 billion)
$5.55 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.98 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($46.49 billion)
$17.55 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$15.55 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$2.41 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$10.12 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($34.63 billion)
$30.99 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.53 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($22.43 billion)
$10.00 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$4.51 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($37.58 billion)
$8.12 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$7.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$1.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$7.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$0.98 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.56 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$1.02 billion ...... Untaxed foreign personal income (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$1.34 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.39 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)


Total Budget: $360.15 billion


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Northam for Governor '17 on November 18, 2010, 02:34:33 pm
I'd like to see an increase in education spending.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on November 18, 2010, 02:36:49 pm
I'd like to see an increase in education spending.

I am thinking about this as well. If you have the time to break up the sections to be a little more specific, I think that would be better. This is obviously a basic run down and we can be as specific as we want, or introduce legislation specifying how education funds will be spend from this budget (aka not having to raise taxes, but just using existing funds).


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 18, 2010, 10:01:03 pm
Have to agree with Ben on education. I'd like to see a couple more billion invested into it. We had a more in-depth plan on it earlier, I just can't seem to find the written-up version of it.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on November 18, 2010, 11:09:20 pm
Have to agree with Ben on education. I'd like to see a couple more billion invested into it. We had a more in-depth plan on it earlier, I just can't seem to find the written-up version of it.

it never existed in text form. We just discussed it and brought up ideas.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on November 19, 2010, 06:45:34 pm
I plan to have some tax numbers ready as well as updated spending for education during this Thanksgiving so that way we can see what the GM has to say for how much we'll raise in revenue.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on November 20, 2010, 05:47:29 pm
The federal government is spending 64 billion for education.

We're spending about half that but we are only 1/5 of the country. I don't think we should increase education spending unless someone lays out a very specific plan of how the money will be spent.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 20, 2010, 05:55:52 pm
The federal government is spending 64 billion for education.

We're spending about half that but we are only 1/5 of the country. I don't think we should increase education spending unless someone lays out a very specific plan of how the money will be spent.
Great point. Not only in education, but across the board, I worry we're spending way too much. A regional report by the GM would be greatly appreciated on this matter, so we can have something to work with.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on November 24, 2010, 02:48:33 pm
Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.5%    $180,001 - $300,000
3%    $300,001 - $750,000
3.5%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
4.5%    $2,750,001+

-- 0.500 percent on taxable income between $5,001 and $10,000
-- 0.750 percent on taxable income between $10,001 and $15,000
-- 1.000 percent on taxable income between $15,001 and $20,000
-- 1.500 percent on taxable income between $20,001 and $40,000
-- 2.000 percent on taxable income between $40,001 and $80,000
-- 2.500 percent on taxable income between $80,001 and $100,000
-- 3.000 percent on taxable income between $100,001 and $200,000
-- 3.750 percent on taxable income of $200,001 and above.


There will be 0% tax on incomes below $5,000

Corporate Tax Rate:
0.1%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
3.5%    $20,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 1% 5.7% (exemption on medical and grocery tax)

Property Tax Rate:
0.5%    $0 - $50,000
1%    $50,001 - $75,000
1.5%    $75,001 - $125,000
2%    $125,001 - $350,000
2.5%    $350,001 - $750,000
3.5%    $750,001 - $10,000,000
4.5%    $10,000,001 +


Capital Gains: 0%


Excise Taxes:
Gas: 1.5 cents/gallon (2 cents/gallon for diesel).
Cigarettes: $0.70 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 40% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.50 per gallon
Wine: $0.25 per gallon
Beer: $0.15 per gallon

Suggestions? We probably won't keep these numbers, but getting a rundown from the GM would very much help us adjust if we need to go lower (most likely) or higher since our budget is under $200 $360 billion (not including tax cuts) and PS had our made up budget at $500-600 billion. That's a lot of cutting :D


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on November 24, 2010, 10:07:11 pm
I just glanced at this and haven't calculated the numbers to see if the region's in the black or not, but you're to be commended on the structure you've set up here. Very therough.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on November 24, 2010, 10:22:55 pm
I just glanced at this and haven't calculated the numbers to see if the region's in the black or not, but you're to be commended on the structure you've set up here. Very therough.

Thank you. Hopefully we'll be pretty close once you have all the numbers in.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2010, 12:47:01 pm
FYI, this is being worked on as promised. Problem is trying to figure out the likely outcome by comparing the RL numbers of over half a dozen RL state budgets and tax systems. :P

Please be patient.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on December 14, 2010, 03:40:59 pm
It's looking quite good for a first draft. Good job, Speaker!


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 14, 2010, 06:13:00 pm
FYI, this is being worked on as promised. Problem is trying to figure out the likely outcome by comparing the RL numbers of over half a dozen RL state budgets and tax systems. :P

Please be patient.

No problem. Let me know if you come upon another large/important tax I left out. I'm pretty sure I covered all the majors.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 16, 2010, 04:32:34 pm
FYI, this is being worked on as promised. Problem is trying to figure out the likely outcome by comparing the RL numbers of over half a dozen RL state budgets and tax systems. :P

Please be patient.

No problem. Let me know if you come upon another large/important tax I left out. I'm pretty sure I covered all the majors.

Update: I've reviewed some websites that I think will help give an overview of basic taxes and spending:

http://sunshinereview.org/core/state-budgets
http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/State_budget_issues,_2010-2011#Per_capita (click any state in Mideast)
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302a (Ohio listed just for example; also click on taxes tab at top).

The info from the middle link frankly makes my head spin. :P All I need is some time to add the RL spending of "Mideast" states and compare the total to the proposed budget, then compare RL tax rates for those states to the proposal, and reasonably guesstimate the resulting surplus/deficit.

The last link provides some good ratios of RL state spending priorities in pie graph form, btw.

Any/everyone feel free to chime in with thoughts or questions (or even take the lead in calculations ;)).


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 16, 2010, 05:48:04 pm
The last link has a tab with the total state and local spending, so it would be easy to add up, but it isn't just state like Colorado has $47 billion in spending, but our state budget is only around $18-19 billion


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 19, 2010, 03:45:40 pm
We also need to figure out which statutes we'll want to grandfather in, and how they'll affect the budget.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 19, 2010, 06:10:08 pm
Obviously we'd want to include everything passed between the law setting up a budget and now (without any objections) as a start


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2010, 11:08:20 am
We also need to figure out which statutes we'll want to grandfather in, and how they'll affect the budget.

However you guys want to do it is fine by me. You can review statute by statute to determine what effect they have on the final budget, or you can simply "punt" and assume the final numbers you decide on "include" any/all relevant prior statutes. The federal Budget Process Committee ultimately had to settle for this latter option, so again I'm fine with the region doing so too. :P

If there's anything historical that simply can't be ignored for the final numbers I'll let you all know, but I'll admit up front I'll be too busy to go looking. ;)

FYI, my trial today plead out so I hope to have time to assess the budget proposal this afternoon. I'm going to try my darnedest to have my assessment to you all before the holiday.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 21, 2010, 11:07:10 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 22, 2010, 01:57:30 pm
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 26, 2010, 01:32:51 am
I've still got double shifts at work for a couple more days, so there's no huge rush.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2010, 09:58:37 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Cath on December 27, 2010, 10:17:53 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P

I vote we all push to the Hard Right just to annoy Badger.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2010, 10:28:32 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P

I vote we all push to the Hard Right just to annoy Badger.

Mission accomplished. :P

Besides, it'll just annoy A-Bob as yet another free spot on my calander is spent acting as the self-appointed Mideast's voice of reason rather than crunching the regional budget numbers. ;)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Cath on December 27, 2010, 10:30:19 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P

I vote we all push to the Hard Right just to annoy Badger.

Mission accomplished. :P

Oh, you haven't seen "Far Right" yet. You're just seeing somewhere between Moderate and Conservative...If we were to go completely economically Libertarian and completely Socially Authoritarian, then you'd see Far Right.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2010, 10:55:15 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P

I vote we all push to the Hard Right just to annoy Badger.

Mission accomplished. :P

Oh, you haven't seen "Far Right" yet. You're just seeing somewhere between Moderate and Conservative.

The fact that you honestly seem to believe that is....concerning.

Don't fly too close to the sun, young Icarus. The voters of this region are still largely moderates.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Cath on December 27, 2010, 11:18:32 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P

I vote we all push to the Hard Right just to annoy Badger.

Mission accomplished. :P

Oh, you haven't seen "Far Right" yet. You're just seeing somewhere between Moderate and Conservative.

The fact that you honestly seem to believe that is....concerning.

Don't fly too close to the sun, young Icarus. The voters of this region are still largely moderates.

I'm not saying the Assembly whoudl do that or that we would survive the elections. I'm just saying that it would be possible to go farther Right.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 27, 2010, 11:57:15 am
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P
First off, I somewhat take offense to being labeled a right-winger, as my record both in the Senate and as Governor reflect otherwise. On several pieces of legislation, I have rejected some of the Assembly's rightist requests, and tried to compromise. Similar to the position Mitt Romney was in as Governor, there's not really a whole lot I can do, as the conservatives have numbers to override me. So the best I can do is tone down the legislation a bit. You act like you're being completely ignored, and that's not the case. I've taken in your suggestions on multiple occasions, especially on the union bill, and have made amendments to meet your requests.

Badger, you keep whining and moaning about the work being done in this Assembly. You know, we wouldn't be passing all these right-wing bills if we'd have something to work with from the GM's office. All you've given us to this point is a vague unemployment number that shows the work we've done in the past few months has lowered our unemployment numbers. Maybe instead of constantly complaining about the work we're doing and messaging every single moderate or liberal in the region, urging them to run for the Assembly or for Governor, you could actually do your job and give us the reports we've been asking for since you took your job several months ago. And if you really have a problem with the work being done in the Mideast, why don't you run for office yourself?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2010, 12:57:40 pm
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P
First off, I somewhat take offense to being labeled a right-winger, as my record both in the Senate and as Governor reflect otherwise. On several pieces of legislation, I have rejected some of the Assembly's rightist requests, and tried to compromise. Similar to the position Mitt Romney was in as Governor, there's not really a whole lot I can do, as the conservatives have numbers to override me. So the best I can do is tone down the legislation a bit. You act like you're being completely ignored, and that's not the case. I've taken in your suggestions on multiple occasions, especially on the union bill, and have made amendments to meet your requests.

Badger, you keep whining and moaning about the work being done in this Assembly. You know, we wouldn't be passing all these right-wing bills if we'd have something to work with from the GM's office. All you've given us to this point is a vague unemployment number that shows the work we've done in the past few months has lowered our unemployment numbers. Maybe instead of constantly complaining about the work we're doing and messaging every single moderate or liberal in the region, urging them to run for the Assembly or for Governor, you could actually do your job and give us the reports we've been asking for since you took your job several months ago. And if you really have a problem with the work being done in the Mideast, why don't you run for office yourself?

Gov:

1) No offense, Issac, but notwithstanding opposition to capital punishment and and commendable support for animal welfare, you are still quite conservative. Not Sharron Angle or Ken Buck conservative, but still decidedly well right of center. Yes, you can and do compromise and have an equally commendable pragmatic streak, but when a rather staunch conservative such as yourself has become the "political center" for the Mideastern government, well that kind of proves my point.

2) Honestly, I would love nothing more than to be able to be GM. I actually have had the printed out paperwork to run the budget numbers (and FWIW, recruited Dr. Cynic last week to help) for weeks. This is literally the 3rd or 4th afternoon or morning I've had free and planned on crunching the numbers but felt I had to respond to the Reichstag's Assembly's head long lurch to the right (which as Cathcon has indicated, maybe has only just begun).

I'm not going to apologize for that. This region's government has long been a well balanced mix of parties and ideologies, then after the last election its suddenly 100% RPP and everyone but Junkie, a moderate, is a staunch conservative--and at least 2-3 of them are hard right conservatives well out of step for this region. Looking at the voter census, only about half the voters are RPP or Pops, but the government is acting like it wants to be the new IDS. >:( And you expect the rest of the region to be silent about this? I'm only sorry that others like Ben and Happy are too busy in Nyman and others not active enough that I'm the only one voicing such concerns (publically at least).

3) Yes, Issac, I've PM'd 3 people looking for some balance in the regional government. As I've noted above, it desperately needs it. Again, I'd love nothing more to be full time GM again rather than voice of reason/de facto opposition leader. I don't want to have to lead recall and initiative petitions, but faced with this government, what are the options? Ignore it? And I'm asking others to take up that banner so that I don't have to! >:(

And for the record, I'm more than committed to this job as GM. I've turned down offers to run for VP and President in the last week to do it. But if things don't slow down, yes, I may be forced against my very dear wishes to stay GM to instead run for governor to put the brakes on. I really don't want to, but....

4) I'm sorry you're frustrated with my distraction from GM duties to actually be active in regional government. So am I. BUT, just among many many examples, when we have the Speaker of the Assembly and RPP candidate for governor literally proposing to prohibit free speech and association rights to prohibit union organizing in private businesses, and then pushes legalization of blacklisting union organizers for employment, what is one to expect? (Yes, your opposition to both is duly noted, but A-Bob wasn't alone in supporting this either, and as Cathcon noted above there's no plans to stop....)

In short, I only spend so much time objecting because there is an unprecedented amount of objectionable stuff being proposed. With respect, Governor, I believe most Mideasterners would consider the government's abandonment of centerism to be the problem here, rather than my objections to that development.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2010, 01:03:50 pm
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P
First off, I somewhat take offense to being labeled a right-winger, as my record both in the Senate and as Governor reflect otherwise. On several pieces of legislation, I have rejected some of the Assembly's rightist requests, and tried to compromise. Similar to the position Mitt Romney was in as Governor, there's not really a whole lot I can do, as the conservatives have numbers to override me. So the best I can do is tone down the legislation a bit. You act like you're being completely ignored, and that's not the case. I've taken in your suggestions on multiple occasions, especially on the union bill, and have made amendments to meet your requests.

Badger, you keep whining and moaning about the work being done in this Assembly. You know, we wouldn't be passing all these right-wing bills if we'd have something to work with from the GM's office. All you've given us to this point is a vague unemployment number that shows the work we've done in the past few months has lowered our unemployment numbers. Maybe instead of constantly complaining about the work we're doing and messaging every single moderate or liberal in the region, urging them to run for the Assembly or for Governor, you could actually do your job and give us the reports we've been asking for since you took your job several months ago. And if you really have a problem with the work being done in the Mideast, why don't you run for office yourself?


BTW: Please don't try to place the responsibility, Governor, of the above bolded part as a lack of a budget analysis from the GM's Office. Much of the Assembly seems quite committed to its cause of action regardless. ::)

You wrote a very well reasoned post, Isaac, albeit I disagree with it as previously noted. As far as that silly line, however, I'm calling you on it. ;)

But hey, if a budget analysis will really distract the Assembly even temporarily with something new and shiny, I'll be on it in an hour after coming back from lunch. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: tmthforu94 on December 27, 2010, 01:17:22 pm
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P
First off, I somewhat take offense to being labeled a right-winger, as my record both in the Senate and as Governor reflect otherwise. On several pieces of legislation, I have rejected some of the Assembly's rightist requests, and tried to compromise. Similar to the position Mitt Romney was in as Governor, there's not really a whole lot I can do, as the conservatives have numbers to override me. So the best I can do is tone down the legislation a bit. You act like you're being completely ignored, and that's not the case. I've taken in your suggestions on multiple occasions, especially on the union bill, and have made amendments to meet your requests.

Badger, you keep whining and moaning about the work being done in this Assembly. You know, we wouldn't be passing all these right-wing bills if we'd have something to work with from the GM's office. All you've given us to this point is a vague unemployment number that shows the work we've done in the past few months has lowered our unemployment numbers. Maybe instead of constantly complaining about the work we're doing and messaging every single moderate or liberal in the region, urging them to run for the Assembly or for Governor, you could actually do your job and give us the reports we've been asking for since you took your job several months ago. And if you really have a problem with the work being done in the Mideast, why don't you run for office yourself?


BTW: Please don't try to place the responsibility, Governor, of the above bolded part as a lack of a budget analysis from the GM's Office. Much of the Assembly seems quite committed to its cause of action regardless. ::)

You wrote a very well reasoned post, Isaac, albeit I disagree with it as previously noted. As far as that silly line, however, I'm calling you on it. ;)

But hey, if a budget analysis will really distract the Assembly even temporarily with something new and shiny, I'll be on it in an hour after coming back from lunch. :P

Maybe that line is a little dramatic, but I personally know from grumblings from a couple Assemblymembers that they'd much rather be working on finishing this budget than passing these bills. ;) I appreciate your commitment to the region and your position, Badger, and look forward to critically assessing your report. :)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 27, 2010, 04:51:03 pm
If the Reichstag Assembly would please take a break from trying to enact the editoral page of The National Review into law, I might get a chance to work on data for the budget. :P

You are free to leave that debate up to the Assembly and other members of the region if you would like to be able to focus on the budget then :)

I'd like nothing more, A-Bob. But with the Assembly and Governors office entirely consisting of right-wingers (minus Junkie), it feels like its fallen to me to be the de facto opposition representative of anyone in the Mideast to the left of Attila the Hun. :P
First off, I somewhat take offense to being labeled a right-winger, as my record both in the Senate and as Governor reflect otherwise. On several pieces of legislation, I have rejected some of the Assembly's rightist requests, and tried to compromise. Similar to the position Mitt Romney was in as Governor, there's not really a whole lot I can do, as the conservatives have numbers to override me. So the best I can do is tone down the legislation a bit. You act like you're being completely ignored, and that's not the case. I've taken in your suggestions on multiple occasions, especially on the union bill, and have made amendments to meet your requests.

Badger, you keep whining and moaning about the work being done in this Assembly. You know, we wouldn't be passing all these right-wing bills if we'd have something to work with from the GM's office. All you've given us to this point is a vague unemployment number that shows the work we've done in the past few months has lowered our unemployment numbers. Maybe instead of constantly complaining about the work we're doing and messaging every single moderate or liberal in the region, urging them to run for the Assembly or for Governor, you could actually do your job and give us the reports we've been asking for since you took your job several months ago. And if you really have a problem with the work being done in the Mideast, why don't you run for office yourself?


BTW: Please don't try to place the responsibility, Governor, of the above bolded part as a lack of a budget analysis from the GM's Office. Much of the Assembly seems quite committed to its cause of action regardless. ::)

You wrote a very well reasoned post, Isaac, albeit I disagree with it as previously noted. As far as that silly line, however, I'm calling you on it. ;)

But hey, if a budget analysis will really distract the Assembly even temporarily with something new and shiny, I'll be on it in an hour after coming back from lunch. :P

Yes actually. We've actually held off on legislation to wait for this budget (as I told the Governor who has a stack of bills ready for the Assembly). And the reason we aren't focussing on economic growth and anything truly to do with numbers right now is because it is pointless to do when the budget is suppose to be moments away from a numbers report.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 27, 2010, 05:24:34 pm
OK, Mideast: Here is a preliminary comparison of the proposed budget's spending to RL spending. First, a couple of ground rules:

First off: CHECK MY WORK AND COMMENT FREELY IF YOU THINK I'M FACTORING/ADDING THINGS WRONG. While, yes, the GM has the final say on what is "reality", but I trust a group's review of facts more than my individual judgment (as long as I'm part of that group, of course  ;D).

Secondly, this is a review of spending only. A comparison of tax rates and resulting surplus or deficit will come later once Dr. Cynic has provided me the review of RL state tax info I've requested.

Third, A-Bob's quite therough budget outline paralleled the NathanNewmann Budget Simulation (http://www.nathannewman.org/nbs/) the Atlasian federal government adopted. A very good choice. ;) The only problem is that there is no similar on-line model for RL state budgets (at least that I've found), let alone one that combines several state budgets like the Mideast region. Accordingly I've been basing the RL spending on this (http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302a) website. My point here is there's going to be a certain amount of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole between the Assembly's outline and these numbers. I'm going to rely on the regional government to translate between the two.

Finally, I didn't include DC in the calculations as "state spending" is largely a misnomer there and skews the numbers. Also numbers and percentages may not add up exactly due to rounding. (But don't hesitate to point out any errors that are apparently bigger than mere "rounding").

So here is a comparison to RL FY2010 spending in the states comprising the Mideast (in $ Bil):

TOTAL SPENDING: $325.8 Billion

Pensions: $42.7 (13.1%)

Health Care: $99.7 (30.6%)

Education: $67.9 (20.8%)

Welfare: $36.5 (11.2%)

Protection: $19.2 (5.9%)

Transportation: $25.8 (7.9%)

Other: $35.0 (10.7%)


FYI: The total RL budget shortfall of "Mideastern" states is 35.5 Bil, but that has no bearing on the Mideastern numbers until tax rates are completed. (Dr. Cynic just forwarded a list of RL sales taxes for my review, so we're making progress there--thanks Doc!).

A couple notes on these numbers: Do you all see what I mean about fitting the square peg of the Assembly's budget outline into the round hole of these numbers with their only 7 broad spending categories? Since you've all been chomping at the bit to do something, it'll be up to you guys to figure out if the budget priorities are where you want them by comparing these broad catagories to your own proposal. I'll offer any additional detail requested if possible. I suggest first looking at the other two links I provided earlier in the thread.

I'll simply note two observations without judgment: First, there is no provision in the Assembly's outline for pensions; that will have to be addressed as the GM's office will assume the regional budget, like the RL states, carry a heavy load of such expenses. How you want to address it is up to you, of course. Secondly, although the outline spends over 10% more money than RL, it still spends considerably less (at first glance) on education and health care. Much of this seems to stem from the $160 Billion in tax credits that may be more applicable to the federal budget at first glance (though obviously there's no reason the Mideast can't adopt regional level tax credits).

This should give you all enough to do until I get the analysis of the tax proposal done. Thanks for your patience, and the floor is open for questions, comments, invective, etc.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 28, 2010, 12:42:08 am
On education I thought we had enough funds (half of the federal spending) however Illinois alone spends around $8 billion (not that they have much to show) so I am definitely open to increase in education spending.

I see how I've missed pensions though as pensions are addressed via tax credits but not as budget spending.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 28, 2010, 01:28:13 pm
I see how I've missed pensions though as pensions are addressed via tax credits but not as budget spending.

Well, sort of. The tax credits you refer to....

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($46.49 billion)
$17.55 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$15.55 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$2.41 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$10.12 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)


....are federal tax deductions for various pension and retirement payments, but not the actual pension/retirement plan payments themselves. The payment of pensions is a separate matter to address. I'm really not sure if these deductions match what the various "Mideast" states in RL lose from exclusions from state taxation or not. Anybody? ???

However, if you put a gun to my head and forced a guess I'd say the deductions would be a smaller percentage compared to the federal budget, simply because state taxes rely more on sales and property taxes than income and estate taxes.

If someone wants to do even "tip of the iceburg" level research on this, using even just one RL "Mideastern" state, please feel free as it could save the region a lot of revenue. ;) Calculating the relative share of tax breaks/exemptions for regional "spending" compared to the federal budget's share of "spending" would be a good first step.

I'd take a few minutes with a calculator and do it myself, but I gotta get to court. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: President Mitt on December 28, 2010, 01:31:06 pm
Are you in the assembly Badger? You should if your not. :)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 29, 2010, 12:29:29 am
Are you in the assembly Badger? You should if your not. :)

Been there, done that. ;) It was some of my happiest time in Atlasia. Nope, just a happy busybody. AS GM that's kinda my job. ;D


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 30, 2010, 04:56:40 pm
Here's an initial calculation of "sales" (i.e. "ad valorum") taxes in the Mideast. Again, the key here is please check my work and make corrections, comments where you believe my numbers are wrong.

Here is the report SoIA Dr. Cynic prepared at my request re: RL sales taxes (Thanks Doc!):


IN - 7%
KY - 6%
MD - 6%
MO - 4% (rounded)
VA - 4%
WI - 5%

MI - 6%
OH - 6% (Rounded)
IL - 6% (Rounded)

Those are the sales tax figures

I advised him to not include DC or WV for now. Assessing the first 6 states as "size 1" states, and the latter 3 as "size 2"--and thus giving them double weight for averaging the regional sales tax--this averaged a RL sales tax of: 5.67%. It was too hard to average in WV as a "size 1/2" state, so I'll say their 6% sales tax bumps up the RL regional average to: 5.7%

Based on the website below (also linked at the bottom post of page 1 in this thread:

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/#usgs302a

I added the total RL revenue of all ad valorum taxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_valorem#Application_of_a_sales_or_property_tax) (more on the distinction between these and sales taxes later) to be: $76.4 Billion

Translating that from an average 5.7% sales tax rate to the 1% sales tax rate proposed for the Mideast results in net revenue of: $13.4 Billion. This is a shortfall of $63 Billion :o from real life which would have to be cut further from the budget---maybe....

First, I haven't yet calculated what revenues will be raised from other taxes like income, etc. Dr. Cynic hopes to have a similar rundown of RL state income tax rates in Mideastern states over the weekend (thanks again, Doc--you rock! :D).

More importantly, the "ad valorum" taxes in RL don't include property taxes. The Mideast is proposing a rather unusual tax structure. In RL property taxes are almost entirely assessed by local governments rather than state (regional) governments, and have been so for about a century. Now, I'm not sure I personally oppose the RL theory of emphasizing property taxes over sales taxes as the latter are far more regressive. But that's a policy decision for the region.

There are, however, 2 major factors to consider: First, these state regional property taxes would be in addition to all property taxes currently assessed by local governments and school districts, which are no less heavy in Atlasia than in RL. While the region would have a really low sales tax rate (only a couple states are lower in RL), it would be a bitch to property owners.

The second factor is that is going to be an absolute bitch for yours truly to even guesstimate the revenue produced by such a region wide property tax. :P I can add and estimate RL comparisons for sales tax, income tax, etc. to compare, but a state-wide property tax is absolutely without comparison.

While I really don't want to stifle creativity, I'm going to at least float the idea of giving Mideastern property owners a break (as well as the GM :P) and seriously consider replacing the property tax for an increase elsewhere in taxes I can actually measure like sales, income and excise.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 30, 2010, 07:40:51 pm
I had sales tax low and property added to spread revenue out, though I wouldn't be opposed to just a higher sales tax, though I'd like the rest of the numbers completed first since spending should be lower than all the states RL combined and then we can go from there.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 31, 2010, 12:31:13 pm
I had sales tax low and property added to spread revenue out, though I wouldn't be opposed to just a higher sales tax, though I'd like the rest of the numbers completed first since spending should be lower than all the states RL combined and then we can go from there.

??? Por que'?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 31, 2010, 02:33:31 pm
I had sales tax low and property added to spread revenue out, though I wouldn't be opposed to just a higher sales tax, though I'd like the rest of the numbers completed first since spending should be lower than all the states RL combined and then we can go from there.

??? Por que'?

As you already said, the states combined at almost 36 billion in the hole. Plus there's a whole lot of waste. Illinois is approaching the 10 billion mark on education and have nothing to show for it (btw that's over half of Colorado's entire budget :P )


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on December 31, 2010, 02:49:24 pm
I had sales tax low and property added to spread revenue out, though I wouldn't be opposed to just a higher sales tax, though I'd like the rest of the numbers completed first since spending should be lower than all the states RL combined and then we can go from there.

??? Por que'?

As you already said, the states combined at almost 36 billion in the hole. Plus there's a whole lot of waste. Illinois is approaching the 10 billion mark on education and have nothing to show for it (btw that's over half of Colorado's entire budget :P )

"Nothing to show for it"? Cite?

Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that IL has about 3 times CO's population would it?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 01, 2011, 12:15:54 am
I had sales tax low and property added to spread revenue out, though I wouldn't be opposed to just a higher sales tax, though I'd like the rest of the numbers completed first since spending should be lower than all the states RL combined and then we can go from there.

??? Por que'?

As you already said, the states combined at almost 36 billion in the hole. Plus there's a whole lot of waste. Illinois is approaching the 10 billion mark on education and have nothing to show for it (btw that's over half of Colorado's entire budget :P )

"Nothing to show for it"? Cite?

Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that IL has about 3 times CO's population would it?

I got the Illinois info from the link you provided and I know the Colorado budget is $18 billion. Yes they are bigger, but it's still a lot of money


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 04, 2011, 05:23:40 pm
Any observations/problems with the calculations we produced for sales tax revenue? FWIW, if you eliminate the regional property tax (please, on behalf of beleaguered property owners and GM's everywhere :P) and raise the sales tax to 5.7%, the GM's office estimates that it will raise the same "ad valorum tax" revenue as RL--$76.4 Billion.

BTW: I forgot to mention, these calculations include an exemption on sales taxes for groceries and prescription medication which most Mideastern states have in RL. Any increases/reductions in that 5.7% rate (0% on groceries and prescriptions) will accordingly increase or decrease revenues from that $76.4 Bil level.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 04, 2011, 08:44:54 pm
I would be fine supporting this proposal. However, we may not need to even raise it all the way to 5.7%. It will be much more clear on where we can cut and balance taxes once we get everything in, but I see no problem with this, especially wit hthe exemptions you mentioned.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2011, 09:07:13 am
I would be fine supporting this proposal. However, we may not need to even raise it all the way to 5.7%. It will be much more clear on where we can cut and balance taxes once we get everything in, but I see no problem with this, especially wit hthe exemptions you mentioned.

Whatever level you guys want to set it at is your collective decision. My simple point is that, upon (hopeful ;)) elimination of the regional level property tax, the "baseline" level for sales tax is 5.7% (with exemptions for groceries and prescriptions)= $76.4 Billion in revenue.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2011, 11:53:25 pm
Good news. I've found some websites with income tax rate info.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_oh.html

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/edit/state/profiles/state_tax_Ohio.asp

I won't have much chance to work on this stuff until Friday, and I have <gasp> non-forum stuff planned all weekend. If anyone want to even try averaging the non-flat income tax states rates out in the meantime to speed things up I won't complain. ;D


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 06, 2011, 05:21:08 pm
To help your work Badger, here's the new income tax brackets for the region (just to make it universal).

-- 0.500 percent on taxable income between $5,001 and $10,000
-- 0.750 percent on taxable income between $10,001 and $15,000
-- 1.000 percent on taxable income between $15,001 and $20,000
-- 1.500 percent on taxable income between $20,001 and $40,000
-- 2.000 percent on taxable income between $40,001 and $80,000
-- 2.500 percent on taxable income between $80,001 and $100,000
-- 3.000 percent on taxable income between $100,001 and $200,000
-- 3.750 percent on taxable income of $200,001 and above.

There will be 0% tax on incomes below $5,000


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 06, 2011, 05:23:22 pm
I also updated the latest tax info, 5.7% sales tax, eliminating the property tax


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 06, 2011, 05:51:36 pm
Wait a minute, A-Bob. At the risk of seeming ungrateful---and I am for the elimination of the property tax; it'll keep the region from having the highest home taxes in the country as well as make my job easier---please don't feel you have to change the income tax rates just to make my job easier. Seriously, once I figure out an "average" RL income tax rate for states in the Mideast, comparing and calculating the income produced by a regional income tax rate will be a snap. Besides, the rates you're changing to are consistant with Ohio's RL rates only, but vary widely from most other states in the region.

It'll be tricky to "average" tax brackets, but I can do it. ;) Tell you what, since its little work once the RL "average" income tax is determined, I'll do revenue analysis for both proposed tax rates.

Thanks for trying to make it easier on me anyway. ;)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 06, 2011, 07:23:42 pm
Sounds good, at least it will be slightly easier for Ohio ;) Though then it will be less work in the future when we decide if we need more revenue or less and can easily "cut" or "raise" the income tax rates because we already have both plans :D


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on January 08, 2011, 07:18:33 pm

$4.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)


Is this going to be defined by statute, because it is worryingly nonspecific....


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 08, 2011, 08:16:02 pm

$4.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)


Is this going to be defined by statute, because it is worryingly nonspecific....

Feel free to look up every law pretaining to corporate taxes in the multiple Mideast states if you so choose to do so :)

This is based off of Atlasia's budget btw so they have the same thing going on. Obviously this game/simulation is never going to be as hard core as actual government where we spend our entire lives devoted to this budget.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 11, 2011, 03:35:03 pm

$4.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)


Is this going to be defined by statute, because it is worryingly nonspecific....

Feel free to look up every law pretaining to corporate taxes in the multiple Mideast states if you so choose to do so :)

This is based off of Atlasia's budget btw so they have the same thing going on. Obviously this game/simulation is never going to be as hard core as actual government where we spend our entire lives devoted to this budget.

Actually, I think you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised about that section, but I have to finalize some details in a conference call with a forum tax expert. ;)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 11, 2011, 05:57:13 pm
Thank you for your work, and hopefully finished soon? So the nightmere can end for you


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 12, 2011, 11:19:46 pm
OK, another piece of the puzzle falls into place. Good news for the region actually.

My thanks to Torie for his help in analyzing the tax proposal (being a lawyer with significant tax background). Please review the section of spending entitled "Tax expenditures and Tax Cuts" totaling $163.75 Billion in "spending" (an odd use of the term based on the NathanNewman budget sim's terminology, but whatever).

Upon consultation with wise graybeards ;), it would appear that these deductions are already included in state taxes the same as federal taxes. As I am calculating regional revenues based on comparing regional tax rates to RL tax rates and the revenue it produces--which, again, are already subject to these same tax deductions--these deductions have no effect on regional revenues for the starting budget as the current deduction level is not being changed in any category.

Bottom Line: We can remove the $163.75 Bil in "spending" from the budget as the deductions will already be included in the calculation of regional revenues. That should give some serious breathing room. :D

But before we celebrate too much, please note there's still some serious red ink I predict. :( I hope to have an analysis of income tax revenue done before the weekend.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 13, 2011, 05:30:38 pm
Wouldn't the tax cuts be subject to the current budget though? As in here's the 10% rate say for something, but you only have to pay 8% this year?

Still, I'm win with save $163.75 billion :D


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 14, 2011, 07:09:18 pm
Wouldn't the tax cuts be subject to the current budget though? As in here's the 10% rate say for something, but you only have to pay 8% this year?

Still, I'm win with save $163.75 billion :D

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question, A-Bob. In a nutshell the above listed tax deductions are included in the upcoming budget to the same extent as allowed in RL (which according to Torie most states will allow deductions to the same extent as the federal government does). As there is currently no proposed change to the level of such tax deductions, they will already be included in the final calculation of revenue collected and therefore don't impact "spending" levels at all. If such deductions are to be expanded or reduced from present levels in the future, however, that will then obviously affect revenue levels.

BTW: IF they are well-behaved tomorrow (the big key being whether our 5 month old demands to be held for hours straight or if he'll nap), then I MAY actually have close to a final analysis for the budget by Tuesday. Keep fingers crossed.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Cath on January 14, 2011, 11:01:59 pm
Okay, after talks with Tmth, I'm attempting to get more involved here.

First off, I'm a bit confused as to how this works, as it seems that Badger, instead of calculating the tax rates of the Mid-East region, it seems you are calculating the real life tax rates/spending of the states that the Mid-East region would occupy if in real life. Is this true? I'm trying to understand how this works.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 14, 2011, 11:17:36 pm
Okay, after talks with Tmth, I'm attempting to get more involved here.

First off, I'm a bit confused as to how this works, as it seems that Badger, instead of calculating the tax rates of the Mid-East region, it seems you are calculating the real life tax rates/spending of the states that the Mid-East region would occupy if in real life. Is this true? I'm trying to understand how this works.

RL numbers is the only way we can make this somewhat realistic. Otherwise Badger would be pulling numbers out of thin air which is more or less what has happened with the GM position before governments started to actually create deatiled budgets.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 14, 2011, 11:23:22 pm
Okay, after talks with Tmth, I'm attempting to get more involved here.

First off, I'm a bit confused as to how this works, as it seems that Badger, instead of calculating the tax rates of the Mid-East region, it seems you are calculating the real life tax rates/spending of the states that the Mid-East region would occupy if in real life. Is this true? I'm trying to understand how this works.

RL numbers is the only way we can make this somewhat realistic. Otherwise Badger would be pulling numbers out of thin air which is more or less what has happened with the GM position before governments started to actually create deatiled budgets.

Right. I'm comparing the amount of revenue raised by RL states with their RL tax rates, and using that as a basis to calculate how much revenue the tax rates set by the Assembly and Governor would raise.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Cath on January 15, 2011, 08:30:17 am
So, looking over the thread, it seems that the number that we have is either 76.4 billion, or 163.75 billion. However, the second numer is the number you mentioned that we'd save. I'm trying to figure out from what the rest of you are saying, how much we have to spend here.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 15, 2011, 11:59:37 am
So, looking over the thread, it seems that the number that we have is either 76.4 billion, or 163.75 billion. However, the second numer is the number you mentioned that we'd save. I'm trying to figure out from what the rest of you are saying, how much we have to spend here.

no..... We have $163.75 billion in tax credits which we can subtract now and $76.4 billion of revenue from the sales tax to be at that 5.6% rate was it?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 19, 2011, 03:04:00 pm
So, looking over the thread, it seems that the number that we have is either 76.4 billion, or 163.75 billion. However, the second numer is the number you mentioned that we'd save. I'm trying to figure out from what the rest of you are saying, how much we have to spend here.

no..... We have $163.75 billion in tax credits which we can subtract now and $76.4 billion of revenue from the sales tax to be at that 5.6% rate was it?

Close. The budget currently has $196.4 Bil allocated for spending, and a 5.7% regional tax rate (with groceries and prescription meds exempt) will raise $76.4 Billion in revenue.

Income tax analysis being typed up now.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 19, 2011, 05:10:05 pm
Here's the Office of the GM's analysis of revenue produced by the proposed income tax rates. At this time I've only done an analysis of the original proposal (see crossed out list of income tax brackets on page 1 of thread: "0% for income up to $13k; 1% for $13k-$40k", etc.). For reasons soon to be apparent, I don't think the Assembly will want an assessment of the revised proposed rates.

As always, PLEASE double check the math and underlying calculations here, and raise any objection if you believe the figures are misplaced. I emphasize this particularly here as, in summary, the prognosis is grim. :(

The calculations were made based on RL state income tax rates in "Mideastern" states. Here's an overview of RL tax rates compiled by the resolute SoIA, Dr. Cynic. Thanks again, Doc! :D


IL - 3% (flat)

IN - 4% (flat)

VA - 2% (low rate)  &  6% (high rate)

WVA - 3% (low rate) &  7% (high rate)

MD - 2% (low rate)  &  6% (high rate)

DE - 2% (low rate)  &  7% (high rate)

KY - 2% (low rate)  &  6% (high rate)

OH - 1% (low rate)  &  6% (high rate)

MI - 4% (flat)

MO - 2% (low rate)  &  6% (high rate)

WI - 5% (low rate)  &  8% (high rate)

Further details of the non-flat tax state's tax brackets were found in the websites linked at this post (or links to state tax agencies provided therein):

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2774577#msg2774577

Interestingly, many of the graduated tax states have a couple brackets covering very very low incomes, and then only 1 or two tax brackets covering the vast majority of incomes from working class to the uber-wealthy. Ohio is one of the exceptions.

Anyways, based on this link:
http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/#usgs302a

I added up the FY2010 RL income tax revenue in Mideastern states to total: $62.8 Bil.

Compared to RL, the proposed regional income tax rates are quite low. The closest RL state's rates was Illinois' flat 3% rate (recently raised to 5%) which according to the "us government revenue" link above produced $10.7 Bil in revenue. I really tried to give the region the benefit of the doubt considering the increased tax rates of 3.5% and 4.5% the noteworthy number of multi-millionaires living on the Gold Coast would pay, not to mention Chicago's population of billionaires, but even then I felt compelled to determine that cutting the middle class's tax rates by half to two-thirds would still result in overall reduced tax revenues. I accordingly spitballed painstakingly calculated the proposed regional income tax rates would only produce $9.3 Bil in IL.

I use IL as an example as it is actually the best state in terms of coming close to matching RL revenue. Many other states have income tax rates that were roughly double, or even close to triple the proposed RL rates. Not that they have top tax rates of over 13%, but most have rates of over 5% or 6% which kick in at lower middle class income rates, whereas the proposed regional rates don't even hit 2% until income over $100k.

All told, the GM's Office determines this proposed regional income tax rates would produce total revenue of: $32.7 Bil. This is nearly a 50% decrease :o from RL state income tax revenue.

Please note that this is NOT a judgment of the proposal, but rather simply an economic measure of its likely revenue based as close as possible on real world models. If the region wishes to keep these rates, or even reduce them, it is free to do so. The result, however, is that in addition to an already significant budget deficit if RL spending levels are merely maintained, these rates will add an additional approximately $30 Bil that must either also be cut from spending and/or incurring debt.

An analysis of the spending is coming soon. Preview: Remember that $160+ Bil in tax breaks the region recently got to take off its spending ledger? You'll need every penny and much, much more. :(


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 19, 2011, 06:32:48 pm
Thank you for the report.

I'm going to hold off on deciding to raise the taxes or what to cut in the budget until we get that spending report and have all our total tax revenue added together to see the overall deficit (most likely).


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 19, 2011, 10:57:42 pm
Here's the GM Office's analysis of the proposed budget spending.

I used much the same websites as before in reviewing spending by comparing the proposed budget to RL state spending: I've broken down the proposed budget into the same categories the website uses: As always, please aggressively check my work and hollar if I got something wrong---not just math errors, but fundamental reasoning errors as well.

                                   Mideast                        RL

Pensions:                   $10.05 B                  $42.7 B

Health Care:              $58.85 B                  $99.7 B

Education:                 $35.12 B                  $67.9 B

Welfare:                    $31.39 B                  $36.5 B

Protection:                $12.45 B                  $19.2 B

Transportation:         $14.72 B                  $25.8 B

Other:                       $33.8 B                    $35.0 B


TOTAL:                  $196.4 B                  $325.8 B

(For anyone wanting more details on how the RL spending is allocated, go to the gov spending site, hit spending, then at the bottom where it lists actual and guesstimated spending over several fiscal years click on 2010. This will open an option to open these several spending categories into more specific subcategories.)

As we can see, in every category except "Other" and "Welfare" is funding not even remotely close to current real life funding levels. Again, this is NOT a judgment on the proposal. Nevertheless, the fact remains that cuts in spending on these services will reduce services/effectiveness from present real world levels to a degree directly related to the level of funding cuts, be it education, health care, transportation, etc.

The one exception to this rule--I think--is pensions. I'm not certain of this, but I believe that, unlike Social Security where the amount of benefits is discretionary with the government, I believe pensions are contractual in nature and spending on retirement benefits can no more be reduced by the state once earned than a private company can do. I'm exactly 51% sure of this so anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but until when and if that happens the GM's Office rules that pension spending must be increased to RL levels or darned close. (Again, anyone please correct me if I've got this wrong).

Otherwise, you're free to make whatever decisions you wish.

The last part of the budget still to come is an assessment of other taxes including estate, excise and other. I'm going to give the Assembly a heads up so they can start the hard work now, though: I do NOT expect these taxes to materially change the final situation of the regional budget, as they are a relatively small part of state's revenue sources.

Here's an overview: In RL the 10 states of the Mideast Region will spend in FY 2010 approximately $325.8 Bil. Conversely, those states will raise only $248.7 Bil in revenue That leaves a deficit of $77 Bil, and that's with RL tax rates as opposed to the much reduced income tax rate proposed.. The proposed income tax rates would increase the deficit an additional $30 Bil.

There are a few glimmers of hope, though. First off, gambling was legalized in the region some years ago so there will be increased tax revenue from RL compared to states that still largely prohibit gambling (e.g. OH). The extra tax revenue here, however, will likely only total in the single digit billions. :-\

More importantly, though, is the stimulus funding package passed by the Senate which allocates money to the states for various projects. I STRONGLY urge the Assembly to factor in these federal appropriations into its regional spending budget ASAP. You WILL need that cash.

There you go. I bet you all wish I would have held off even longer now. :P Sorry to be the bearer of bad lousy craptastic tidings. :(

But hey, at least you're not the Pacific. Those guys are really screwed. ;D


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 19, 2011, 11:10:44 pm
So if we kept this unrealistic numbers, we'd be fine on spending, however with the necessary even minimal budget increases in areas, we'd be short correct.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 19, 2011, 11:31:20 pm
So if we kept this unrealistic numbers, we'd be fine on spending, however with the necessary even minimal budget increases in areas, we'd be short correct.

Well, lets see: Assuming all other taxes except income tax raise the same revenue as in RL, the region will raise about $218.8 Bil ($248.8 Bil raised in RL -$30 Bil for the reduced income tax rates proposed). If pension funding is raised $32.6 Bil to match RL levels, that would raise overall regional spending from $196.4 Bil as proposed to about $229 Bil, leaving a deficit of just over $10 Bil. Most, if not all, of that however would be made up by additional gambling tax revenue.

So, yes: The Mideast probably could adopt the proposed tax and spending levels and also fully fund state pensions, AND maintain a balanced budget with only nominal cuts to "other" miscellaneous government funding.

However, the down side is doing so would require cutting welfare services by almost 15%, cutting law enforcement and protection funding by over a third, and cutting funding for transportation/road and bridge repair, education, and health care all by almost half.

The one upside, again, is that none of these calculations currently factor in federal stimulus spending.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 19, 2011, 11:41:50 pm
BTW: I'm not aware of any Mideastern law requiring a balanced budget, so the government could choose to incur deficits in the long range plan of paying them off later. Interest costs will of course be added to subsequent budgets, but the choice is yours.

I don't think I need to spell out to anyone here the downsides of deficit spending in opposition to this idea, or the gospel of Keynesian economics in favor of it. ;)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 20, 2011, 05:25:54 pm
Well I'm in favor of a balanced budget so we don't screw ourselves in the long run (Especially since the tax credits now have no effect this first time).

The final budget should be smaller than RL. I know we have some breathing room with the stimulus for health care as well as transportation.

Obviously to make sure we don't have significant cuts, we're going to need to bring the income tax levels much closer to RL.

How much are corporate taxes going to bring in for revenue (we still have the ability to create higher brackets for those making hundreds of millions of dollars, I mean even a 0.5% increase will generate a decent amount)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 20, 2011, 06:59:35 pm
Well I'm in favor of a balanced budget so we don't screw ourselves in the long run (Especially since the tax credits now have no effect this first time).

The final budget should be smaller than RL. I know we have some breathing room with the stimulus for health care as well as transportation.

Obviously to make sure we don't have significant cuts, we're going to need to bring the income tax levels much closer to RL.

How much are corporate taxes going to bring in for revenue (we still have the ability to create higher brackets for those making hundreds of millions of dollars, I mean even a 0.5% increase will generate a decent amount)

Honestly, Mr. Speaker, from what I saw those real life income tax revenue figures appeared to include corporate income taxes as well. (Sorry, forgot to mention that before.) If anything, the difference between RL corporate tax rates and those proposed were probably worse than the approximately 50%  reduction in personal income tax revenue raised. Based on the fact that corporation taxes are generally a rather small share of overall income tax receipts, I did only a rough estimate rather than exact math for corporate income, and that's undoubtedly to the region's benefit as frankly strict application would probably only increase that $30 Bil shortfall in income tax revenue from RL figures. Sorry. :(

Like I said, the remaining excise and estate taxes are a very small portion of overall revenues. Even IF the proposed rates are higher than RL, the resulting increased revenue would be relatively small and do little to address the region's budget crisis.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Cath on January 21, 2011, 09:24:30 pm
This is a quote from my re-election thread where A-Bob asked about ideas for balancing the budget. I'm no expert on what's expected where, but there were things that I had questions on or believed un-necessary.

What specific cuts would you make in the budget and/or tax increases to make up for our projected budget shortfall?

I decided to go over the budget and see what was going on. I came up with two categories for the things I wrote down: "What is this?", and "What is oure role in this?" I'd appreciate an amount of explanation for category one, and an a reason why we're funding category two.

What is this?
Updating Energy Infrastructure
I'm wondering what that means and how it translates into action.

What is oure role in this?
Mental health and substance abuse (Is the reason we're paying for this crime control, or general humanitarianism?)
Agricultural research (It's probably normal for a government to fund research, but why?)
Crop Insurance (Are there private agencies for this? Do people pay, or do they get it for free?)
Fund for alternative energy (Again, I know most government fund this, but why? I'd at least consider leaving it up to private enterprise to research)
Vocational Education (Is this like trade school? I can understand K-12, but please explain this)

I'd like these questions answered.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on January 22, 2011, 11:51:36 pm
This is a quote from my re-election thread where A-Bob asked about ideas for balancing the budget. I'm no expert on what's expected where, but there were things that I had questions on or believed un-necessary.

What specific cuts would you make in the budget and/or tax increases to make up for our projected budget shortfall?

I decided to go over the budget and see what was going on. I came up with two categories for the things I wrote down: "What is this?", and "What is oure role in this?" I'd appreciate an amount of explanation for category one, and an a reason why we're funding category two.

What is this?
Updating Energy Infrastructure
I'm wondering what that means and how it translates into action.

What is oure role in this?
Mental health and substance abuse (Is the reason we're paying for this crime control, or general humanitarianism?)
Agricultural research (It's probably normal for a government to fund research, but why?)
Crop Insurance (Are there private agencies for this? Do people pay, or do they get it for free?)
Fund for alternative energy (Again, I know most government fund this, but why? I'd at least consider leaving it up to private enterprise to research)
Vocational Education (Is this like trade school? I can understand K-12, but please explain this)

I'd like these questions answered.

Its A-Bob's proposal, so ask him. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on January 23, 2011, 11:47:02 am
This is a quote from my re-election thread where A-Bob asked about ideas for balancing the budget. I'm no expert on what's expected where, but there were things that I had questions on or believed un-necessary.

What specific cuts would you make in the budget and/or tax increases to make up for our projected budget shortfall?

I decided to go over the budget and see what was going on. I came up with two categories for the things I wrote down: "What is this?", and "What is oure role in this?" I'd appreciate an amount of explanation for category one, and an a reason why we're funding category two.

What is this?
Updating Energy Infrastructure
I'm wondering what that means and how it translates into action.

What is oure role in this?
Mental health and substance abuse (Is the reason we're paying for this crime control, or general humanitarianism?)
Agricultural research (It's probably normal for a government to fund research, but why?)
Crop Insurance (Are there private agencies for this? Do people pay, or do they get it for free?)
Fund for alternative energy (Again, I know most government fund this, but why? I'd at least consider leaving it up to private enterprise to research)
Vocational Education (Is this like trade school? I can understand K-12, but please explain this)

I'd like these questions answered.
Everthing related to energy is best answered by Governor tmth as he's the one pushing for a large economy economy. For mental health and abuse, that helps overall with not just criminals, but potential would be dangerous people, it would help reform criminals as well as stop certain people from continuing a destructive path. Governments have always given out grants for research, agriculture as well in order to improve effiency, reduce costs, and create healthier crops. With alternative energy research, again, government's give out grants to those that can show promising results.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 23, 2011, 12:34:40 pm
This is a quote from my re-election thread where A-Bob asked about ideas for balancing the budget. I'm no expert on what's expected where, but there were things that I had questions on or believed un-necessary.

What specific cuts would you make in the budget and/or tax increases to make up for our projected budget shortfall?

I decided to go over the budget and see what was going on. I came up with two categories for the things I wrote down: "What is this?", and "What is oure role in this?" I'd appreciate an amount of explanation for category one, and an a reason why we're funding category two.

What is this?
Updating Energy Infrastructure
I'm wondering what that means and how it translates into action.

What is oure role in this?
Mental health and substance abuse (Is the reason we're paying for this crime control, or general humanitarianism?)
Agricultural research (It's probably normal for a government to fund research, but why?)
Crop Insurance (Are there private agencies for this? Do people pay, or do they get it for free?)
Fund for alternative energy (Again, I know most government fund this, but why? I'd at least consider leaving it up to private enterprise to research)
Vocational Education (Is this like trade school? I can understand K-12, but please explain this)

I'd like these questions answered.
Everthing related to energy is best answered by Governor tmth as he's the one pushing for a large economy economy. For mental health and abuse, that helps overall with not just criminals, but potential would be dangerous people, it would help reform criminals as well as stop certain people from continuing a destructive path. Governments have always given out grants for research, agriculture as well in order to improve effiency, reduce costs, and create healthier crops. With alternative energy research, again, government's give out grants to those that can show promising results.
You're correct, I'm pushing for a large economy economy. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Cath on January 23, 2011, 12:51:12 pm
I'd favor some sort of tax credit system rather than the state handing out money, but I'm not sure about the nuances of that, and one of you will most likely explain why that's flawed.

I'd still like an answer to "energy infrastructure" and "vocational education".


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 03, 2011, 04:57:25 pm
so... how do we keep this process moving forward?

and can we look at doing some tax reform?:)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 03, 2011, 07:36:00 pm
To clear this all up for all the tax credits I wrote (no change) for all of them because I was thinking it would be based off of the first budget, therefore it would be impossible for a change of added or subracted dollars. I only could guess on the tax credits necessary for positive economic growth based off of the national tax credits but for 1/4 of the nation. Is this making sense?

Anyways I would just like to clear that up. Ask me if this still doesn't make sense.

Thanks


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 03, 2011, 08:43:33 pm
Where exactly are we at?

Has the GM finalized a full analysis yet?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 03, 2011, 09:42:26 pm
To clear this all up for all the tax credits I wrote (no change) for all of them because I was thinking it would be based off of the first budget, therefore it would be impossible for a change of added or subracted dollars. I only could guess on the tax credits necessary for positive economic growth based off of the national tax credits but for 1/4 of the nation. Is this making sense?

Anyways I would just like to clear that up. Ask me if this still doesn't make sense.

Thanks

I was assuming that the list and figures of tax credits/deductions were based off the total of state level tax expenditures. But now, if I understand you correctly, you are saying they were based on a list of those for the nation, divided by 4? 
I understand then why they added up to be so much in comparison to the budget, since as far as I know, states do not generally have many tax deductions, especially compared to the federal level which has many.
In that case there may not be much room to raise the region's revenue through eliminating tax credits and deductions, but I may look into it a bit more to see which states have them.
   


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 03, 2011, 09:44:52 pm
Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 03, 2011, 10:04:32 pm
Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 03, 2011, 11:09:22 pm
Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 04, 2011, 01:07:21 am
here are links to state tax expenditure reports: http://www.itepnet.org/other_resources/state_tereport.php  (http://www.itepnet.org/other_resources/state_tereport.php)    (some of them - i read not all states do them and Virginia doesn't seem to have its 5yr report completed)
i dunno if maybe there's a way to make a simple estimate, maybe choose one state that's representative of the region and extrapolate that figure based on the ratio of GDP from state to region?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on February 05, 2011, 10:53:14 pm
Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No. :P

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 06, 2011, 12:06:47 am
Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No. :P

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.

But that's the problem, how can we change the deduction numbers or not change them from a number we don't have?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on February 06, 2011, 04:38:36 pm
Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No. :P

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.

But that's the problem, how can we change the deduction numbers or not change them from a number we don't have?

The numbers aren't mine, Governor, they're out there in real life tax statutes. Find them. Google, Wikipedia, etc. It's not that I'm being lazy, I just really don't have time at this moment between China, the GTO bombing, etc. etc. etc.

What I would say is that generally the deductions are allowed in full (i.e. contributions to a Keogh plan, etc). I'm sure there are some limits on some of these deductions, like the $5k limit annually to IRA contributions, but you guys may have to take up the leas there.

What I'd suggest is pick a particular deduction out of that list, and if no one is willing to figure it out individually, do it as a team. there's 5 assembly members plus the gov; everyone take a state or two in the Mideast and look up the RL tax deductability on line. Heck, if it truly is a team effort I'll gladly take a state or two myself to help.

The key here is while I pride myself on being an active number crunching GM, I simply can't do it all. So....GO TEAM MIDEAST!! ;)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 06, 2011, 04:56:16 pm
so if we find the relevant tax statutes, is there a way to calculate the total cost of the deduction?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on February 06, 2011, 05:46:14 pm
so if we find the relevant tax statutes, is there a way to calculate the total cost of the deduction?

If you guys/we guys can do step one, I can seriously help---maybe even do entirely--step 2.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 16, 2011, 12:30:40 pm
Badger, what exactly is it that you need?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on February 16, 2011, 12:51:37 pm
Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 16, 2011, 07:27:11 pm
Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.

Can't we just wait to add the stimulus funds at the end to help make up for the deficit?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on February 18, 2011, 03:07:17 pm
Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.

Can't we just wait to add the stimulus funds at the end to help make up for the deficit?

Tomato, tomahto. Its the same thing whether its done now or at the end. Either way it reduces the defiicit as it shows less regional dollars being spent on such thing as highways etc.

So again, if someone has 10 minutes to do so......


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 21, 2011, 10:00:27 pm
I'm a bit concerned about just adding the stimulus dollars into the figures for the general budget.

That means that when the stimulus money runs out, we have to find a new source of revenue and start from scratch on the budget, right? I think it's better to keep it as a separate add on to a baseline spending amount.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 22, 2011, 06:50:19 pm
I'm a bit concerned about just adding the stimulus dollars into the figures for the general budget.

That means that when the stimulus money runs out, we have to find a new source of revenue and start from scratch on the budget, right? I think it's better to keep it as a separate add on to a baseline spending amount.

The other option would be to raise more taxes right now


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 22, 2011, 08:32:40 pm
so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 22, 2011, 11:46:17 pm
so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 23, 2011, 12:46:53 am
so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

are the rest federal programs? or do we need to budget it?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 23, 2011, 03:59:43 pm
so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

are the rest federal programs? or do we need to budget it?

The rest I was just considering to be extra federal programs on top of our budget. Though if we absolitely had to do balance a budget, we could cut a few billion from health care and be saved this first budget


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 23, 2011, 05:19:23 pm
so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

are the rest federal programs? or do we need to budget it?

The rest I was just considering to be extra federal programs on top of our budget. Though if we absolitely had to do balance a budget, we could cut a few billion from health care and be saved this first budget

yeah I really don't see the sense of budgeting anything except what we actually have control over, and that 3.9 G I would suggest we just set aside directly into the revenue column.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: #IAintAfraidOfNoGoats on February 27, 2011, 02:24:54 am
Wouldn't it be best to balence the budget, not raise taxes and send some of the stimulus back to the Feds? The better thing to do would be to cut spending.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on February 27, 2011, 11:53:43 am
Wouldn't it be best to balence the budget, not raise taxes and send some of the stimulus back to the Feds? The better thing to do would be to cut spending.

hopefully we will be able to use the stimulus funds at our disposal directly toward balancing this year's budget.  we will be cutting spending too, but we wont know how much until we see just how big this deficit actually is.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on February 27, 2011, 12:24:25 pm
Wouldn't it be best to balence the budget, not raise taxes and send some of the stimulus back to the Feds? The better thing to do would be to cut spending.

we've actually cut the budget a huge amount. the estimate PS provided as GM was 500-600 billion. Our budget as you can see is hundreds of billions less than that


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on February 27, 2011, 08:25:06 pm
Wouldn't it be best to balence the budget, not raise taxes and send some of the stimulus back to the Feds? The better thing to do would be to cut spending.

Also, if you have any specific qualms with the budget, we would be glad to bring up debate about it.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 01, 2011, 12:17:35 pm
I'm a bit concerned about just adding the stimulus dollars into the figures for the general budget.

That means that when the stimulus money runs out, we have to find a new source of revenue and start from scratch on the budget, right? I think it's better to keep it as a separate add on to a baseline spending amount.

What I'm suggesting is doing both. Include the amount given in the stimulus for spending totals, but note its source and (correctly noted, Shua) presumably temporary basis.

BTW: Sorry I didn't get the last final touches of figuring out "other" tax revenue (estate, excise, gaming, miscellaneous) before leaving on vacation. This has litterally been the last thing needed on the budget before turning it over to you folks to play with for about 3 weeks now. :-[

I'll try to get on it soon, but this is a busy week. Anyone willing to calculate the stimulus spending into the proposed budget would really help here. ;D

EDIT: Oh! I see that's being done. Thanks!


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 11, 2011, 07:33:46 pm
OK. I should have a final posting of my budget analysis later tonight. Here's some preview:

Sit down. :(

The remaining "other" taxes didn't really have much difference between Gov. A-Bob's proposal and real life, but only because the areas of taxation I hadn't "graded" to real world standards yet--captial gains, and excise taxes--actually come under the categories from the website I've been using to base this on (http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/united_states_total_revenue_pie_chart#usgs30210) of income taxes and "ad valorum" (i.e. sales) taxes.

Here's a comparison to RL tax rates and the proposed budget:

Capital Gains: 0%. This is obviously MUCH lower than other states. Only 9 states in RL have no state capital gains tax (and the same states generally have no income tax either).
http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/united_states_total_revenue_pie_chart#usgs30210
None of these states are in the Mideast. the average RL capital gains rate in Mideast states I estimated to be about 4.8%. That is obviously going to create an even bigger hit to income tax revenues which the GM's Office previously estimated (http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789445#msg2789445) was already on track to produce 50% less revenue than RL states due to very low proposed tax rates.

Excise taxes: Alcohol and Tobacco. The proposed alcohol taxes are about the same as real life rates. Maybe a tinsy bit lower, but I'll give it a pass and say it evens out. ;) Unfortunately the proposed $0.70/pack cigarette tax is about 1/2 to 1/3 the rate of most real life states that set $1.50 to $2/pack taxes. Worse yet, the share of excise taxes collected from tobacco in real life state is 3 to 10 times the amount collected from alcohol taxes; consequently the low proposed cigarette taxes will have a much heavier ding to excise revenue than the "average" alcohol taxes proposed can make up for.

Fuel taxes. The proposed 1.5 cents per gallon is MUCH lower than RL states in the Mideast which assess taxes generally in the upper teens cents per gallon. This proposed rate will cut overall fuel tax revenue by over 90%.

The combined reduction of tobacco taxes by 1/3 to 1/2 and gasoline taxes to less than a tenth of their respective RL levels I estimate will cut overall ad valorum tax revenue by just over 10%. If that doesn't sound like much consider that category includes all sales taxes, and is the region's largest source of income (RL: $92 Bil).

The total numbers coming soon. Brace yourselves for a crisis....... :'(


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 11, 2011, 08:04:59 pm
MIDEAST REGIONAL BUDGET: FY 2011 (Proposed)

SPENDING

                                   Mideast                        RL

Pensions:                   $10.05 B                  $42.7 B

Health Care:              $58.85 B                  $99.7 B

Education:                 $35.12 B                  $67.9 B

Welfare:                    $31.39 B                  $36.5 B

Protection:                $12.45 B                  $19.2 B

Transportation:         $14.72 B                  $25.8 B

Other:                       $33.8 B                    $35.0 B


TOTAL:                  $196.4 B                  $325.8 B


REVENUE:

                                              Mideast                       RL

Income Taxes:                       $29.3 Bil                   $62.8 Bil

Social Insurance Taxes:         $24.4 Bil                   $24.4 Bil

"Ad Valorum" Taxes:              $82.6 Bil                   $92.0 Bil
(i.e. sales, excise, fuel, etc.)

Fees:                                      $43.0 Bil                   $43.0 Bil

Business and Other:              $62.4 Bil                   $57.8 Bil

TOTAL:                                    $241.7 Bil               $290.0 Bil


Several notes: First, the individual RL numbers may not add up exactly; they didn't on the website either, but I used the overall totals so these should be sound. Also the website updated its numbers for FY 2010 that I based these numbers on after I originally wrote them down weeks ago and I may not have caught all the updates in individual categories. Feel free to double check my math, especially if it helps you scrounge some extra bucks.

Secondly. the Business and Other revenue is higher due to legalized gambling being widely available in the region unlike in RL. I may've exaggerated its effects (this year at least), but I figure you guys could use the help. :P

Third, this does NOT factor in federal stimulus money. Be my guest to modify the post once you decide how/where to spend it.

Finally, just to reiterate that while most spending decisions are free to choose, from socialist utopia to libertarian brave new world, the region MUST increase its spending on pensions to equal RL levels. The Mideast region is contractually bound and short of declaring regional bankruptcy must abide by those numbers or face lawsuits--which it will lose. Otherwise, have fun and get creative!

Oh, and good luck. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on March 11, 2011, 08:19:43 pm
From those figures it looks like revenue exceeds spending by 45 B, so  we could raise pensions to RL levels and still be in the black - Am I missing something?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 11, 2011, 08:30:43 pm
From those figures it looks like revenue exceeds spending by 45 B, so  we could raise pensions to RL levels and still be in the black - Am I missing something?

How about the 1/3 cuts to transportation/infrastructure and protection/law enforcement, and the nearly 50% cuts to education and health care spending?

You may adopt such draconian cuts if you wish, but just as in RL there would be "ramifications" to say the least (and not just politically, but in actual services cut).


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on March 11, 2011, 08:43:51 pm
Do you have any figures available for RL capital gains and/or fuel tax revenue?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on March 11, 2011, 09:49:39 pm
Wow, our business taxes are above RL?

Well I think there's room for cuts in all areas (minus pensions which can be constant) in return for this drastic reduction in the income tax (though obviously a 50% cut in education and such isn't a fair trade).

We were given like 10 billion? for Health Care, so keep that in mind everyone for what we want to raise by how much.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on March 12, 2011, 10:58:28 am
okay, from here (http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/District_of_Columbia_state_revenue_2011#usgs302) it looks like the fuel tax is about 9.1 B for mideast states, so i guess we would raise about 8 B by putting this at RL, right?  to me, a fuel tax makes sense as a source of revenue to help pay for transportation costs.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 12, 2011, 03:48:18 pm
Wow, our business taxes are above RL?

No, no. The "Business" in the "Business and Other" category is revenue generated by state owned enterprises like state liquor stores, etc. Its higher than real life because: a) the proposed budget doesn't change anything in this regard and; b) legalized gambling is more widespread in the Mideast than RL, and thus generates more revenue. I suppose I could've added the additional revenue under the "Ad Valorum" category, but tomato, tomahto, its the same amount of revenue regardless.

In fact the proposed business taxes are much lower than in RL.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 12, 2011, 03:49:37 pm
okay, from here (http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/District_of_Columbia_state_revenue_2011#usgs302) it looks like the fuel tax is about 9.1 B for mideast states, so i guess we would raise about 8 B by putting this at RL, right?  to me, a fuel tax makes sense as a source of revenue to help pay for transportation costs.

That sounds about right. It would require raising fuel taxes to between 16-19 cents per gallon. Good use of the website, btw. :)

EDIT: FYI I calculated that the current 1.5 cents/gallon tax would produce about 10% of RL revenues (actually should've been a bit under 10%, but I was being generous ;)). If you simply added up the total fuel tax revenue for RL states and came up with $9.1 Billion, the increase under "Ad Valorum" revenue by increasing Mideast fuel taxes to the RL levels of 16-18 cents/gallon would be only about 8.2 Billion, as I already included about 0.9 Billion from the tiny 1.5 cents/gallon tax proposed.

(Takes of GM hat): My two cents, why not also jack up cigarette taxes to $2/pack? I know cigarette taxes are what everyone goes to first and eventually one will hit diminishing returns and/or a growing black market, but why not keep such taxes at least consistent with RL levels of $1.50-$2/pack before even thinking about cutting road maintenance, police and prison protection, etc?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on March 12, 2011, 04:18:12 pm
Wow, our business taxes are above RL?

No, no. The "Business" in the "Business and Other" category is revenue generated by state owned enterprises like state liquor stores, etc. Its higher than real life because: a) the proposed budget doesn't change anything in this regard and; b) legalized gambling is more widespread in the Mideast than RL, and thus generates more revenue. I suppose I could've added the additional revenue under the "Ad Valorum" category, but tomato, tomahto, its the same amount of revenue regardless.

In fact the proposed business taxes are much lower than in RL.

Thanks for clearing that up


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 21, 2011, 03:33:11 pm
So any proposals for dealing with this short of closing down a third of prison cells and state police posts, and closing half the hospitals and nursing homes and schools as well?

No it wouldn't be THAT bad, as the funding these places rely on generally isn't all from the state (er, "regional") level. Still, it would be "dramatic" to say the very least.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 25, 2011, 12:05:17 pm
Hey All:

Since I assume this isn't the budget proposal you ultimately want to pass (Shua's already suggested some changes to excise taxes), I'm considering a date of, say, Tax Day (4/18 this year) for when the budget goes into effect.

Let me be clear, since A-Bob's budget proposal near the beginning of this thread was, after all, only a proposal, I am going to assume unless the Assembly and Gov act otherwise, the budget going into effect (or rather, continuing in effect) on 4/18 will be the same as RL FY 2011, both in terms of spending and tax levels. Please note even that RL budget includes a $35 Bil deficit (spending levels being about 112% of revenue). However please note I assume unless someone shows me Mideastern law to the contrary that deficit spending is legal and permitted (with the usual RL economic ramifications).

Also note I am open to a different deadline date if the regional consensus wants it changed. Lord knows it took me long enough to get the figure for the budget together. :P I just want to encourage the Assembly and Gov to take action and play with this new toy I made for you. :)

Likewise, there's nothing stopping the government from approving stopgap funding measures if there is no resolution by 4/18/11. Shades of real life, no? ;)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on March 25, 2011, 04:51:18 pm
Since we have a 45 billion surplus, how about we start updating this budget by fixing the pension spending at RL levels and go from there, since that's one of those things that really can't just be cut drastically.

I think the last area we should put more money in is Health Care. Currently our income tax levels are really half that of RL and we're getting 10 billion from the stimulus for health care regional activities.

I'm also fine with increasing the cigarette tax in order to increase funding for transportation and protection as well as a gasoline tax if we can reduce regulations for the energy industry which would balance the tradeoff for drivers, bring us more revenue, and give the people more jobs. Any of you older guys know of energy legislation that has been written? My first session we passed an algae bill.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on March 30, 2011, 08:31:31 am
Well, obviously any proposal needs to be passed by the Assembly. Feel free to use this thread or the ME Assembly Thread to introduce it as separate bill. Gov's and Speaker's decision, though come to think of it the latter (introduced as a separate bill) would probably work best, IMHO, so there is an actual concrete proposal for the Assembly to address and (presumably) amend.

Beyond that, please advise if the 4/18/11 deadline, which the government may extend with ad hoc temporary spending extension resolutions, is OK. If you want a later date before even having to consider such temporary spending extensions if there's no resolution by then, please advise ASAP.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on March 30, 2011, 12:49:37 pm
Well I don't think we really need to propose an amendment, since truly, we haven't officially proposed a budget, this is just a draft correct?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on March 30, 2011, 04:27:44 pm
Who wants to propose the budget?  I think this would be a good power to place in the Governor's hands.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on April 01, 2011, 08:01:58 am
Who wants to propose the budget?  I think this would be a good power to place in the Governor's hands.

Not necessarily. That's fine, but I say let anyone in the government who wants to propose a budget and let a thousand flowers bloom the haggling begin.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on April 01, 2011, 02:34:00 pm
Here's an updated version of spending. Protection, Pension, Education, transportation all pretty much meets up with RL spending. Health Care is only at 60 billion plus 10 from the stimulus giving us 70 when RL if 99. However there is significant funding going to poor families, and adequate pension for retired people and also large tax cuts for health care for those in the private sector.



Spending ($279.26 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)
Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($68.00 billion)
$40.00 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($60.85 billion)
$37.87 billion .... Medicaid grants (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... State Children's Health Insurance (No Change)
$0.59 billion ...... Indian health (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.97 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$0.89 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$7.01 billion ...... Prescription drug benefit (No Change)
$0.98 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($26.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$1.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on April 01, 2011, 10:37:16 pm
I believe the Medicaid program has been replaced by the Atlasian National Healthcare Act, so I don't think we need to be allocating funds to that.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on April 02, 2011, 02:06:01 pm
I believe the Medicaid program has been replaced by the Atlasian National Healthcare Act, so I don't think we need to be allocating funds to that.

That would be wonderful if it were true. Can anyone else verify this? (As you can see I'm not as tunned in with older federal laws as I am with the Mideast)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on April 02, 2011, 02:09:10 pm
Who wants to propose the budget?  I think this would be a good power to place in the Governor's hands.

We could just make this the silent rule that the Governor shall propose it. If anyone else wants to propose a budget they are welcomed to (usually the opposition if they want some drastic changes) as in RL


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis on April 05, 2011, 01:15:24 am
I believe the Medicaid program has been replaced by the Atlasian National Healthcare Act, so I don't think we need to be allocating funds to that.

That would be wonderful if it were true. Can anyone else verify this? (As you can see I'm not as tunned in with older federal laws as I am with the Mideast)

At your service :)
Section 3, Clause b states

Quote
(b.) Medicare and Medicaid shall be phased out, with all necessary personnel and services being transferred to the Atlasian National Health Care Program upon its establishment.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: afleitch on April 05, 2011, 10:47:46 am
I believe the Medicaid program has been replaced by the Atlasian National Healthcare Act, so I don't think we need to be allocating funds to that.

That would be wonderful if it were true. Can anyone else verify this? (As you can see I'm not as tunned in with older federal laws as I am with the Mideast)

At your service :)
Section 3, Clause b states

Quote
(b.) Medicare and Medicaid shall be phased out, with all necessary personnel and services being transferred to the Atlasian National Health Care Program upon its establishment.


Indeed, I think that Federal healthcare reform in the past year or so has saved us a fair bit of money; worth looking into Prescription Drug Benefit too.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on April 05, 2011, 04:40:21 pm
Well that's great. So really we'd only have tax credits for the businesses who provide it for their employees (or self employed people) and could save some tens of billions.

I'd assume we wouldn't need prescription drug funds either as that is currently inclunded in RL section D and atlasia's health care took over all of that correct?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on April 05, 2011, 11:32:14 pm
Well that's great. So really we'd only have tax credits for the businesses who provide it for their employees (or self employed people) and could save some tens of billions.

I'd assume we wouldn't need prescription drug funds either as that is currently inclunded in RL section D and atlasia's health care took over all of that correct?

yes, prescription drugs are specifically mentioned as included. the region should continue funding for public health and the like, but as far as providing insurance, that has been shifted to the national government.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Badger on April 06, 2011, 07:51:37 am
Well that's great. So really we'd only have tax credits for the businesses who provide it for their employees (or self employed people) and could save some tens of billions.

I'd assume we wouldn't need prescription drug funds either as that is currently inclunded in RL section D and atlasia's health care took over all of that correct?

These are all very important questions that I need to work out. My advice: For the moment do NOT assume medical costs have been transferred from the regions by health care reform. I'll come up with an answer before long (I hope), and if the regions are in fact freed of such costs, then you can enjoy a windfall that just might allow you all to (nearly) balance the budget while not (drastically) raising taxes or (overly) slashing spending on education, law enforcement and the like. ;D


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on April 06, 2011, 02:54:09 pm
Here's my most updated version. I took a lot out from tax cuts, and made sure everything is equal in spending to RL pretty much (minus HC) which was already mainly Medicare and Medicaid money. I've also slightly increased taxes, mostly in excise and a little for the rich in income tax (which is still pretty much in line or lower than RL averages).

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Total Budget: $310.61 billion
Spending ($229.41 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)
Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($68.00 billion)
$40.00 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($12.00 billion)
$1.15 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.20 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($5.09 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.64 billion)
$9.80 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$1.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.67 billion)
$5.50 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.01 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.5%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.20%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 1.5 cents/gallon (2 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on April 09, 2011, 12:40:54 pm
Since no one is commenting do you just want me to propose this budget? Note that if there's minor tweeking it will take a lot less time for me to do it now then having to go through a full amendment.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on April 10, 2011, 02:29:11 pm
Sounds good to me.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on August 04, 2011, 11:10:38 pm
As things stand, not a ton has changed from the last time Badger guesstimated revenue numbers. The income tax changes are good, and help, but most of the changes are either very small, or the all new bracket that doesn't really make much of a difference simply because of how much someone has to earn to actually hit it.

But either way.. :

Revenue:Amount
Income Taxes:$34.6 B
Social Insurance Taxes:$24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes:$108.5 B
Fees:$43.3 B
Business and Other:$66.3 B
TOTAL:$277.1 B

*(I included the increase in license fees under Ad Valorum and Business taxes, for the most part. I truthfully had no idea where they really belonged.)

This is roughly a 35 billion increase in projected revenue from the last time Badger came up with numbers. Most of this increase comes from the Ad Valorum taxes, specifically, the incredible increase in cigarette taxes. It makes sense, of course, since those taxes do raise quite a bit of revenue! But it's possible in the long term you will reduce your revenue pool from cigarettes with that hefty additional tax because less and less people will continue smoking in the Mideast.

But that's a long term problem you probably don't need to worry about right away. A decent chunk of money, also, was raised from your changes in business income taxes.

The total of your budget is $310 billion, give or take. (Remember, tax cuts are just as much of a drag on the deficit as spending is!) Considering this, you're about $33 billion short. That's not an insurmountable number by any means. I would suggest an additional regional tax on marijuana (lol, as long as you keep it legal, anyway) and would strongly advise a bump in the taxes on gasoline by a handful of cents (it really wouldn't hurt, I promise) as well as a .25% increase in the $100,001 - $180,000 and $180,001 - $300,000 income tax brackets.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on August 05, 2011, 10:00:45 am
How about this for revenue
----

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:
Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).
Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon
Marijuana: $3.00/gram if owner possesses less than 28 grams
$4.50/gram if owner possesses 28 grams or more


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on August 06, 2011, 02:54:21 am
The Mideast has social insurance taxes?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Yelnoc on August 08, 2011, 06:16:10 pm
I'm baaack!!!!

What do you guys need?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on August 10, 2011, 01:46:37 pm
I'm baaack!!!!

What do you guys need?

You can help MB with the slight tweak in tax numbers. After that we should be ready to finally pass this.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on August 10, 2011, 01:47:07 pm
The Mideast has social insurance taxes?

I'm not sure what you're looking at?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on August 10, 2011, 04:23:07 pm
The Mideast has social insurance taxes?

I'm not sure what you're looking at?
As things stand, not a ton has changed from the last time Badger guesstimated revenue numbers. The income tax changes are good, and help, but most of the changes are either very small, or the all new bracket that doesn't really make much of a difference simply because of how much someone has to earn to actually hit it.

But either way.. :

Revenue:Amount

Income Taxes:$34.6 B
Social Insurance Taxes:$24.4 B[/b]
"Ad Valorum" Taxes:$108.5 B
Fees:$43.3 B
Business and Other:$66.3 B
TOTAL:$277.1 B

*(I included the increase in license fees under Ad Valorum and Business taxes, for the most part. I truthfully had no idea where they really belonged.)



Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on August 10, 2011, 04:31:12 pm
The Mideast has social insurance taxes?

Truthfully I took Badger's analysis and gave it the benefit of the doubt and then just built upon it. I just mirrored them to RL taxes in that respect and kept them that way since they weren't mentioned in your budget.

You could use the help, though. I wouldn't start getting picky. :P

As for the budget more broadly, I'll have an update on those amended numbers for you soon enough.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on August 10, 2011, 06:32:53 pm
The Mideast has social insurance taxes?

Truthfully I took Badger's analysis and gave it the benefit of the doubt and then just built upon it. I just mirrored them to RL taxes in that respect and kept them that way since they weren't mentioned in your budget.

You could use the help, though. I wouldn't start getting picky. :P

As for the budget more broadly, I'll have an update on those amended numbers for you soon enough.
Okay. It's odd because it seemed like we discussed in detail with Badger every other revenue source except that one. I think I was going to ask him about it when he posted those but forgot because he didn't mention them again. It seems like if we're collecting social insurance taxes we ought to be spending it mostly on some sort of social insurance. But I'm not sure what programs that would apply to on the regional level.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Yelnoc on August 17, 2011, 06:41:21 pm
Sorry I'm late, the last few days have been busy for me.  Below is my running tally of updated Mideast revenues.  Since I can't think of any easy short cuts, I'm giving you exact numbers, based on population.  That takes a while; I spent the last hour doing population statistics.  If anyone wants to jump in with, say, excise taxes or corporate taxes, feel free.

                                % Total POP   # POP    Income
US Population:                    (100%)   308,745,538 
Mideast Population:               (23.64%)  72,979,151
Mideast Unemployment Rate:        (07.50%)   5,473,436
Mideast Working Adult Population: (67.00%)  48,896,031
Mideast Total Taxable Population: (59.50%)  43,422,595

Income Tax Rate:               
0%    $0 - $13,000                (12.50%)   5,427,824  $
1%    $13,001 - $40,000           (32.30%)  14,025,498  $
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000        (38.37%)  16,661,250  $
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000       (11.49%)   4,989,256  $
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000       (03.84%)   1,667,428
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000      (~0.80%)     347,381
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000       (~0.40%)     173,690
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999      (~0.20%)      86,845
6.5%   $10,000,000+               (~0.10%)      43,423

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:
Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).
Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon
Marijuana: $3.00/gram if owner possesses less than 28 grams
$4.50/gram if owner possesses 28 grams or more


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on September 03, 2011, 11:17:31 am
Any chance the numbers will be finished before the next session?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: TJ in Wisco on October 07, 2011, 12:03:53 pm
Does anyone have a clue what the current status of this is? Are we waiting for numbers from our vacant GM? Has everyone just entirely forgotten about this?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: afleitch on October 08, 2011, 01:20:35 pm
Does anyone have a clue what the current status of this is? Are we waiting for numbers from our vacant GM? Has everyone just entirely forgotten about this?

I'm of the opinion it should be passed, with some amendments perhaps as it is. It's not important; not really needed for the game which is why I'm suprised it has gone on for so long.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on November 30, 2011, 11:03:57 pm
bumping because we put to much work into this to forget about it completely


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 01, 2011, 12:21:38 am
Where exactly are we at?  Is the last version on here all ready to go?


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on December 04, 2011, 03:36:25 pm
We were waiting on final numbers from the GM. That's all we had left, and then subsequently change tax rates or spending to ensure a balanced budget.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on December 04, 2011, 08:57:20 pm
It looks like you just need the numbers on the tax revenue aside from income tax.
SoIA and/or I can help you with that.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on December 13, 2011, 10:25:55 pm
If someone can let me know what the difference is between the current proposal and the one before it, that would help me figure out how the revenue projection.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 15, 2011, 03:57:03 am
I'm honestly not sure.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: TJ in Wisco on December 15, 2011, 11:02:36 am
If someone can let me know what the difference is between the current proposal and the one before it, that would help me figure out how the revenue projection.

I think the only difference is in the taxes listed at the bottom (not the income or corporate taxes). Although, the economy may have changed enough since April to make some difference in those categories too.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on December 15, 2011, 11:49:13 am
okay, I figured out what the changes are.

----
Income Tax Rate: April Proposal   Revenue projected:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.5%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.20%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Income Tax Rate: August Proposal
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate: no change. 
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)  No change.

Excise Taxes:
April Proposal:
Gas: 1.5 cents/gallon (2 cents/gallon for diesel).
Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon

August Proposal:
Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).
Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon
Marijuana: $3.00/gram if owner possesses less than 28 grams
$4.50/gram if owner possesses 28 grams or more

____________________________________________________
I expect I'll use the previously calculated revenue numbers where there hasn't been a change, since whether these numbers are too high or too low are going to depend so much on unpredictable changes in policy, and these are rough projections/ estimations anyway. 

The marijuana tax doesn't make much sense to me. You can tax marijuana, but when you talk about "possesses" that's not an excise tax - it's a property tax, and you'll need property assessors going around seeing how much marijuana people have.  If you want an excise tax, you really need a single rate regardless of the amount of an item being purchased.  Otherwise, a single transaction can just be divided up into two transactions to escape the higher tax rate.  So . . . I guess I'll just assume it's a $3/gram excise tax.  Maybe someone more familiar with the um, consumption rate of marijuana can help me out in my calculation. :P


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on December 15, 2011, 11:17:09 pm
I figured the change in the income tax there is about +0.7 Billion and the increase in the gas tax is about +1.8 Billion.  So, not a large difference in  terms of the total budget. ( I'll wait on making any estimation on a marijuana tax here, since there's a bill being discussed now that would dedicate any money from a proposed tax. )
I'll need to find out what the deal is with that social insurance tax revenue, since it seems large to me, and I don't know of any social insurance program in the budget except unemployment insurance.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: ZuWo on July 04, 2012, 09:15:40 am
I am bumping this thread because it will be of use soon. One of my campaign promises was that I would work on the budget, and I think it's about time to get started and revive this.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: tmthforu94 on July 04, 2012, 09:42:55 am
It lives!


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: ZuWo on July 07, 2012, 01:23:22 pm
These are the most recent revenue figures (though they must be updated based on shua's latest calculations in the post above):

Revenue:Amount
Income Taxes:$34.6 B
Social Insurance Taxes:$24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes:$108.5 B
Fees:$43.3 B
Business and Other:$66.3 B
TOTAL:$277.1 B

*(I included the increase in license fees under Ad Valorum and Business taxes, for the most part. I truthfully had no idea where they really belonged.)



And this is what we have for spending (though shua's latest post must also be taken into consideration here):

Here's my most updated version. I took a lot out from tax cuts, and made sure everything is equal in spending to RL pretty much (minus HC) which was already mainly Medicare and Medicaid money. I've also slightly increased taxes, mostly in excise and a little for the rich in income tax (which is still pretty much in line or lower than RL averages).

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Total Budget: $310.61 billion
Spending ($229.41 billion)

Energy ($5.85  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)
Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($68.00 billion)
$40.00 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($12.00 billion)
$1.15 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.20 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($5.09 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.64 billion)
$9.80 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$1.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.67 billion)
$5.50 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.01 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.5%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.20%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 1.5 cents/gallon (2 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon


Now this is our basis to work on! ;)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: ZuWo on July 08, 2012, 07:31:11 am
As far as I understand, the original budget (before shua's latest calculations) would have resulted in a deficit of $33.51 B (revenue: $277.1 B, expenditures: $310.61). If we take into account the following:

I figured the change in the income tax there is about +0.7 Billion and the increase in the gas tax is about +1.8 Billion.  So, not a large difference in  terms of the total budget. ( I'll wait on making any estimation on a marijuana tax here, since there's a bill being discussed now that would dedicate any money from a proposed tax. )
I'll need to find out what the deal is with that social insurance tax revenue, since it seems large to me, and I don't know of any social insurance program in the budget except unemployment insurance.

the deficit is reduced to around $31 B, but the marijuana tax is not included in these estimations. I guess once we can get around solving the marijuana tax problem, we can introduce this budget to the Assembly and discuss any further cuts so that the budget will be more balanced.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on July 08, 2012, 05:19:49 pm
The figure for the Marijuana Tax is $2.40 billion.  It is spent on the following:
$1.2 billion    Victim Compensation Fund
$1.08 billion  Cannabis Prevention Center
$0.12 billion  community murals

Under tax expenditures, given the impact of current national policy, employer sponsored health plan deductions should be reduced by $4.5 billion and health savings account deductions should be increased by $3 billion.

Also, please note this budget has public employees funding almost all of their own pensions, so you might get some push back on the unions from that.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on July 10, 2012, 08:41:32 pm
Pensions were a huge problem when I was writing this budget, especially with Badger as GM. We should look into a bill to define pensions and how they will work as well as the retirement ages for various government employees from here forward.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: ZuWo on July 12, 2012, 08:24:52 am
The figure for the Marijuana Tax is $2.40 billion.  It is spent on the following:
$1.2 billion    Victim Compensation Fund
$1.08 billion  Cannabis Prevention Center
$0.12 billion  community murals

Under tax expenditures, given the impact of current national policy, employer sponsored health plan deductions should be reduced by $4.5 billion and health savings account deductions should be increased by $3 billion.

Also, please note this budget has public employees funding almost all of their own pensions, so you might get some push back on the unions from that.

Thanks for your figures for the marijuana tax!

Now regarding your comments on tax expenditures, is that what you meant?


Quote
Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: ZuWo on July 13, 2012, 02:14:00 pm
I went through each part of the budget again, re-calculated every section and found some minor errors, corrected them and amended the entire budget according to GM shua's most recent estimations. As a result, we have a complete version of the budget. I will go through all numbers again later, but take that as a preliminary result:

Quote
Updated budget

Revenue:

Revenue: Amount
Income Taxes: $35.3 B
Social Insurance Taxes: $24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes: $108.5 B
Fees: $43.3 B
Business and Other: $70.5 B
TOTAL: $282 B


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Budget: $314.01 billion
Spending ($232.71 billion)

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Energy ($5.75  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($69.32 billion)
$41.32 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($14.08 billion)
$2.23 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.3 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.93 billion)
$5.50 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.01 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon
Marijuana: $3.00/gram if owner possesses less than 28 grams
$4.50/gram if owner possesses 28 grams or more

Projected Deficit: Revenue - (Spending + Tax Expenditures/Cuts) = 282 - 314.01 = 32.21 --> $32.01 B

(FTR, the $2.4 B the Marijuana Tax brings in are included in the revenue as well as the spending section. The sum is partly included in the "Education" section and partly in the "Health Spending" section.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: A-Bob on July 14, 2012, 09:55:18 pm
Sounds like a moo moo. It will be good to have a budget :D

Btw I just flew in tonight and am back in Denver.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on July 18, 2012, 11:38:36 pm
Quote
Marijuana: $3.00/gram if owner possesses less than 28 grams
$4.50/gram if owner possesses 28 grams or more

That is from a previous proposal.  The current marijuana tax is a 25% sales tax.

I would suggest we list the revenue from the specific sales and excise taxes, and make the marijuana program spending apparent as well. This shouldn't be too hard - a lot of this information is already in this thread and I can help fill in the gaps where needed.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: ZuWo on July 27, 2012, 02:56:49 pm
Quote
Mideast Budget 2012

Revenue:

Revenue: Amount
Income Taxes: $35.3 B
Social Insurance Taxes: $24.4 B
"Ad Valorum" Taxes: $108.5 B
Fees: $43.3 B
Business and Other: $70.5 B
TOTAL: $282 B


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Budget: $314.01 billion
Spending ($232.71 billion)

*(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget.

Energy ($5.75  billion)
$3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so.
$1 Billion  ...... Fund for alternative energy
$1 Billion  ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure
$0.5 Billion  ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy
$0.25 Billion  ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy)

Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion)
$2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change)
$0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change)
$0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change)
$0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change)

Agriculture ($4.04 billion)
$2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change)

Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion)
$0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change)
$0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change)
$0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change)

Transportation ($23.25 billion)
$9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change)
$4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change)
$1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change)
$6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change)

Community and regional development ($4.39 billion)
$2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change)
$0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change)
$0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education ($69.32 billion)
$41.32 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change)
$8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change)

Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion)
$4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change)
$0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change)
$4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Health Spending ($14.08 billion)
$2.23 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change)
$0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change)
$8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change)
$0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change)

Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion)
$1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change)
$29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change)
$11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)

Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion)
$6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change)
$4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change)
$2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change)
$7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change)
$0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change)
$0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change)

General Family Support ($5.39 billion)
$1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change)
$0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change)
$3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change)

Administration of justice ($20.45 billion)
$11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change)
$5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change)
$2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change)
$1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($3.01 billion)
$0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change)
$2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change)
$0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($81.3 billion)

Corporate Tax Breaks ($11.03 billion)
$7.00 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change)
$1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change)
$2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change)

Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion)
$3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change)
$0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change)

Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion)
$10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change)
$7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change)
$1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change)
$6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change)
$0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change)

Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion)
$5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change)
$1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change)
$4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change)
$1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change)

Housing tax benefits ($12.93 billion)
$5.50 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change)
$3.01 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change)
$3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change)
$0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change)

Other individual deductions and exemptions ($14.43 billion)
$3.62 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change)
$1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change)
$0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change)
$3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change)
$1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change)
$1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change)
$0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change)
$0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change)
$0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change)
$0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change)
$0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change)
----------

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
1%    $13,001 - $40,000
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999
6.5%   $10,000,000+

Corporate Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $50,000
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000
1%    $75,001 - $125,000
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Sales Tax Rate: 5.7% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt)

Excise Taxes:

Gas: 7 cents/gallon (10 cents/gallon for diesel).

Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack.
Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price
Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon
Wine: $0.30 per gallon
Beer: $0.20 per gallon
Marijuana: 25% sales tax

Projected Deficit: $32.01 B



Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 15, 2012, 01:38:57 pm
I have some concerns about raising the sales tax, but I can't think of anything else to do.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: GM R2D2 on August 15, 2012, 02:14:03 pm
I have some concerns about raising the sales tax, but I can't think of anything else to do.

This, honestly.


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on August 15, 2012, 03:04:53 pm
Do public employees pay anything into their pensions yet?  If not, then I'd like to introduce legislation regarding future public employees' pensions (that wouldn't affect current employees.)


Title: Re: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)
Post by: shua on August 15, 2012, 03:43:37 pm
Do public employees pay anything into their pensions yet?  If not, then I'd like to introduce legislation regarding future public employees' pensions (that wouldn't affect current employees.)
Yes, they pay quite a bit. That's a lot of what the "social insurance taxes" category is.