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General Politics => U.S. General Discussion => Topic started by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 11:46:52 AM



Title: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 11:46:52 AM
What should he be charged with for this latest leak of classified documents (if anything)?

So far, there's a pretty wide partisan range of support for prosecution:

"This is extremely damaging to U.S. troops, U.S. interests and U.S. intelligence.  They are engaged in terrorist activity.  What they're doing is clearly aiding and abetting terrorist groups.  Either we're serious about this or we're not." - Rep. Peter King (R-NY)

"To the extent that we can find anybody who was involved in the breaking of American law and who has put at risk the assets and the people that I have described they will be held responsible, they will be held accountable." - Eric  Holder

"I also urge the Obama administration, both on its own and in cooperation with other responsible governments around the world, to use all legal means necessary to shut down WikiLeaks before it can do more damage by releasing additional cables." - Joe Lieberman

"The people who are leaking these documents need a gut check about their patriotism, and I think they're enjoying the attention they're getting but, frankly, it's coming at a very high price in terms of protecting our men and women in uniform.  I hope that we can figure out where this is coming from and go after them with the force of law." - Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: tpfkaw on November 29, 2010, 11:49:39 AM
Nothing.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Landslide Lyndon on November 29, 2010, 11:53:48 AM


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: cinyc on November 29, 2010, 11:55:00 AM
He should be treated as what he is - a foreign spy - and dealt with like other foreign spies.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 11:55:35 AM


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: opebo on November 29, 2010, 11:56:53 AM
Ticker Tape Parade.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: MaxQue on November 29, 2010, 11:57:07 AM


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: minionofmidas on November 29, 2010, 11:58:10 AM
Presidential Medal of Freedom maybe?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Free Palestine on November 29, 2010, 11:59:32 AM


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 11:59:37 AM
He should be treated as what he is - a foreign spy - and dealt with like other foreign spies.

I'd tend to agree with this.  If a member of the KGB/FSB did this, and simply brought it back to Russia, he'd be charged with espionage.  Why should it be any different if somebody simply makes classified documents public instead of taking them back to his/her government secretly?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:00:37 PM
So, my question to everybody who says, "Nothing." ... should the U.S. not charge people with espionage?  And if we do, how are those people any different than Assange?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Hash on November 29, 2010, 12:04:37 PM
Medal of Honour? Order of Canada? Legion d'honneur?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on November 29, 2010, 12:10:17 PM
He should be treated as what he is - a foreign spy - and dealt with like other foreign spies.

Agreed.

And any American citizens who conspired with him should be charged with treason.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:11:24 PM
So, my question to everybody who says, "Nothing." ... should the U.S. not charge people with espionage?  And if we do, how are those people any different than Assange?

Uh, Inks and cinyc and don, the guy who allegedly gave him this stuff is being charged.  


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Lief 🗽 on November 29, 2010, 12:12:05 PM
Very little of what he has leaked is damaging to anyone but the criminals and murderers who he is exposing.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:14:51 PM
So, my question to everybody who says, "Nothing." ... should the U.S. not charge people with espionage?  And if we do, how are those people any different than Assange?

Uh, Inks and cinyc, the guy who allegedly gave him this stuff is being charged.  

What Assange has done is still clearly covered under U.S. Code Chapter 37, Section 793...

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/37/793


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:16:50 PM
So, my question to everybody who says, "Nothing." ... should the U.S. not charge people with espionage?  And if we do, how are those people any different than Assange?

Uh, Inks and cinyc, the guy who allegedly gave him this stuff is being charged.  

What Assange has done is still clearly covered under U.S. Code Chapter 37, Section 793...

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/37/793

So the U.S. decides if the information "injures" the U.S.?  Convenient.



Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: cinyc on November 29, 2010, 12:18:25 PM
So, my question to everybody who says, "Nothing." ... should the U.S. not charge people with espionage?  And if we do, how are those people any different than Assange?

Uh, Inks and cinyc and don, the guy who allegedly gave him this stuff is being charged.  

As he should be.  But that doesn't absolve Assange from any liability should he ever be caught.
  
Like other foreign spies, Assange might never be caught- but that's a totally different issue.  As is whether he, like other notorious foreign spies, might meet a different end than being hauled into court.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:19:07 PM
So, my question to everybody who says, "Nothing." ... should the U.S. not charge people with espionage?  And if we do, how are those people any different than Assange?

Uh, Inks and cinyc and don, the guy who allegedly gave him this stuff is being charged.  

As he should be.  But that doesn't absolve Assange from any liability should he ever be caught.
 
Like other foreign spies, Assange might never be caught- but that's a totally different issue.

Anyone........has the U.S. called for his arrest?

I'll answer my own question - The White House apparently isn't. (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/11/28/statement-press-secretary)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Joe Republic on November 29, 2010, 12:19:41 PM
LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:20:51 PM
Gramps, section (e) states:

Quote
Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or
control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch,
photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model,
instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or
information relating to the national defense which information the
possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the
United States

Surely there's reason to believe that this information that was leaked could be used to the injury of the U.S.  Even if Assange didn't have the intent to injure the U.S., he can still be charged.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:22:17 PM
Gramps, section (e) states:

Quote
Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or
control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch,
photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model,
instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or
information relating to the national defense which information the
possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the
United States

Surely there's reason to believe that this information that was leaked could be used to the injury of the U.S.  Even if Assange didn't have the intent to injure the U.S., he can still be charged.


So the U.S. decides if the information "injures" the U.S.?  Convenient.



Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:23:39 PM
LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.

If he's charged under 18 U.S.C. § 793, he'd get at most 10 years in prison and the possibility of a fine.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:26:10 PM
Inks, I"m being serious here, why isn't Gibbs or Obama himself calling for his arrest and deportation to the U.S.?  Or did they and I missed it?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
Gramps, section (e) states:

Quote
Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or
control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch,
photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model,
instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or
information relating to the national defense which information the
possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the
United States

Surely there's reason to believe that this information that was leaked could be used to the injury of the U.S.  Even if Assange didn't have the intent to injure the U.S., he can still be charged.


So the U.S. decides if the information "injures" the U.S.?  Convenient.


When building the case, yes.  When prosecuting him, that'd ultimately be left up to a jury.

Who else is supposed to decide what injures the U.S.?  Should we not have gone after the Rosenbergs simply because you see a conflict of interest in who is defining espionage?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:28:45 PM
Inks, I"m being serious here, why isn't Gibbs or Obama himself calling for his arrest and deportation to the U.S.?  Or did they and I missed it?

The Justice Department is still in an ongoing investigation... I think it'd be premature for the administration to announce their intent before they have conclusively decided what he'll be charged with.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:29:42 PM
Inks, I"m being serious here, why isn't Gibbs or Obama himself calling for his arrest and deportation to the U.S.?  Or did they and I missed it?

The Justice Department is still in an ongoing investigation... I think it'd be premature for the administration to announce their intent before they have conclusively decided what he'll be charged with.

But you guys have conclusively decided what he should be charged with.

I have too.....nothing.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:33:10 PM
Inks, I"m being serious here, why isn't Gibbs or Obama himself calling for his arrest and deportation to the U.S.?  Or did they and I missed it?

The Justice Department is still in an ongoing investigation... I think it'd be premature for the administration to announce their intent before they have conclusively decided what he'll be charged with.

But you guys have conclusively decided what he should be charged with.

I have too.....nothing.
Not at all.  I'm merely offering a suggestion of what he should be charged with.  I'm doing that based on the limited knowledge I have of the situation.

In the least, I think it's pretty clear that he has violated 18 U.S.C. § 793 (e).

The press release from the White House that you linked to cleraly states that "such disclosures put at risk our diplomats, intelligence professionals, and people around the world who come to the United States for assistance in promoting democracy and open government."

If President Obama (and ultimately Eric Holder) believe that, then they believe that he has violated clause (e), and the next logical step would be for them to prosecute Assange.

I'm curious, why is it that you think what Assange has done does not violate clause (e)?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 29, 2010, 12:34:11 PM
I'm pretty sure this is legal under Swedish law (as it should be).


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese on November 29, 2010, 12:37:59 PM
Well the Swedish State is probably going charge him with rape, when they get their hands on him again. Wether that is justified though I can't say, as Mr Assange has yet to leak any information about the investigation about him.

Quote
I'm pretty sure this is legal under Swedish law (as it should be)

It is. Our constitution is pretty clear that what Mr Assange is doing counts as Freedom of Speech. The crime is commited  by the people who leak the information to him.   


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on November 29, 2010, 12:43:00 PM
It is. Our constitution is pretty clear that what Mr Assange is doing counts as Freedom of Speech. The crime is commited  by the people who leak the information to him.

Which is also true under US law. See the publishing of the Pentagon Papers or Bob Novak exposing Valerie Plame. Neither the NY Times or Novak broke any laws.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:43:46 PM
It is. Our constitution is pretty clear that what Mr Assange is doing counts as Freedom of Speech. The crime is commited  by the people who leak the information to him.

Which is also true under US law. See the publishing of the Pentagon Papers or Bob Novak exposing Valerie Plame. Neither the NY Times or Novak broke any laws.

How does what Assange did not fall under the statute that I cited?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on November 29, 2010, 12:46:11 PM
He's never done anything with the intent to harm the US. He hasn't harmed anyone who didn't deserve it so I don't get why people whine about him.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:47:58 PM
He's never done anything with the intent to harm the US. He hasn't harmed anyone who didn't deserve it so I don't get why people whine about him.

Again... under the statute I cited, intent does not matter.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:50:50 PM
It is. Our constitution is pretty clear that what Mr Assange is doing counts as Freedom of Speech. The crime is commited  by the people who leak the information to him.

Which is also true under US law. See the publishing of the Pentagon Papers or Bob Novak exposing Valerie Plame. Neither the NY Times or Novak broke any laws.

How does what Assange did not fall under the statute that I cited?

Let's just stipulate that it does, to make you guys happy and let's call him a spy............so what?  Under the statute, every spy overseas from every foreign country could be charged, because every country friend and foe is spying on us and obtaining documents......it's just the grand scale of his document dump and the others that gauls some here.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 12:52:11 PM
And every spy should be charged (although they'd be charged under more serious statutes, since the intent there is clear).  It's just that most people who violate the law aren't stupid enough to put their name and face out there saying, "Look what I did!"


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Sewer on November 29, 2010, 12:53:28 PM


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on November 29, 2010, 12:54:24 PM
The Israeli government and many of its agents have stolen and misused far more important information far more frequently.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 12:56:55 PM
And every spy should be charged (although they'd be charged under more serious statutes, since the intent there is clear).  It's just that most people who violate the law aren't stupid enough to put their name and face out there saying, "Look what I did!"

Shoot the messenger, eh?  I love how the venom isn't flowing toward the person or persons who gave him all of this stuff.....

He may go down as the greatest whistleblower in history.....I don't think he has any vendetta against the U.S......hell he'd jump at the chance to publish this stuff about any country.....

Intent to inure is very vague, Inks.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 01:03:20 PM
The guy who leaked this information should be charged... I've always said that, and I continue to say it now.

What he and Assange did here does not rise to the level where the intent was clearly to damage the U.S.  I've never said that proof of intent was there.

But, there are times when the intent is clear (during the 30s, if a German spy was caught, for instance).


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on November 29, 2010, 01:12:38 PM

What, every single foreign diplomat currently operating in the U.S should have their collars felt?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 01:12:51 PM
I love how our Israeli allies reacted to the big leak:

From the AP:

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, meanwhile, said the WikiLeaks disclosure of U.S.-led diplomatic efforts to curb Iran's nuclear program vindicated his stance that Iran was the chief threat to peace in the region."

I didn't see any quotes where Bebe condemend the dump......actually, Israel will likely make good use of it.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: beneficii on November 29, 2010, 01:13:51 PM
The guy who leaked this information should be charged... I've always said that, and I continue to say it now.

What he and Assange did here does not rise to the level where the intent was clearly to damage the U.S.  I've never said that proof of intent was there.

But, there are times when the intent is clear (during the 30s, if a German spy was caught, for instance).

Has he ever been to the U.S.?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Landslide Lyndon on November 29, 2010, 01:32:54 PM
Wow! The guys that defended Eric Cantor's semi-treasonous statement, suddenly got the vapors because a foreign citizen disclosed some pretty innocuous cables.

Ain't life funny?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on November 29, 2010, 01:38:05 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: homelycooking on November 29, 2010, 01:41:58 PM
I suppose Mr Assange should be charged with rape after all, since so many of you feel so violated.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on November 29, 2010, 01:45:59 PM
I suppose Mr Assange should be charged with rape after all, since so many of you feel so violated.

This thug actually has been charged with rape and molestation in Sweden, though I don't know if the charges are legit or not.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 01:47:12 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?

Only if the intent is to injure the U.S....... ::)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: cinyc on November 29, 2010, 02:09:21 PM
It is. Our constitution is pretty clear that what Mr Assange is doing counts as Freedom of Speech. The crime is commited  by the people who leak the information to him.

Which is also true under US law. See the publishing of the Pentagon Papers or Bob Novak exposing Valerie Plame. Neither the NY Times or Novak broke any laws.

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of both the Pentagon Papers case and current law.  The Pentagon Papers case was about whether the government could stop the New York Times from publishing classified information, not the criminality of the actual release.  And the government sometimes has good reasons not to go after lawbreakers who release classified information, including not compromising additional classified information during the trial.

LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.

Who said anything about extradition?  There are plenty of ways governments deal with foreign spies, many times not by hauling them into court.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: patrick1 on November 29, 2010, 02:47:15 PM
So much of this is overblown.  It is not like the launch codes are being released. The little information that comes out only confirms much of what we already know.  The real tragedy in this is not for Americans but our foreign sources of intel.  We rely on some people to give us information on the Taliban and Iran.  These documents may redact names, but from the details left in the reports, it is usually pretty easy to figure out who it may be.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on November 29, 2010, 03:34:47 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?

Only if the intent is to injure the U.S....... ::)

Sure, the emperor doesn't like being told he's got no clothes.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Joe Republic on November 29, 2010, 03:55:26 PM
LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.

Who said anything about extradition?  There are plenty of ways governments deal with foreign spies, many times not by hauling them into court.

So you're advocating assassination?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 29, 2010, 03:57:07 PM
LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.

Who said anything about extradition?  There are plenty of ways governments deal with foreign spies, many times not by hauling them into court.

So you're advocating assassination?

Uh, that or GITMOesque living quarters...


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Joe Republic on November 29, 2010, 04:01:59 PM
LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.

Who said anything about extradition?  There are plenty of ways governments deal with foreign spies, many times not by hauling them into court.

So you're advocating assassination?

Uh, that or GITMOesque living quarters...

It'd be pretty funny to see the U.S. invade Sweden to capture one of its residents and drag him to Gitmo...

Well, funny for crazy right-wing "patriots", of course.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Landslide Lyndon on November 29, 2010, 04:05:53 PM
LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.

Who said anything about extradition?  There are plenty of ways governments deal with foreign spies, many times not by hauling them into court.

So you're advocating assassination?

70's are back baby!


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it] on November 29, 2010, 04:09:22 PM
[...]what Mr Assange is doing counts as Freedom of Speech. The crime is commited  by the people who leak the information to him.

This.

Instead of whining on a guy who just spread what he has been given, only speaks, of things about which he didn't give any pledge to keep it secret, only do some kind of journalism then, people should focus on how come the 'secret' of the 1st power in the world is so leaky...



Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 04:41:56 PM
The guy who leaked this information should be charged... I've always said that, and I continue to say it now.

What he and Assange did here does not rise to the level where the intent was clearly to damage the U.S.  I've never said that proof of intent was there.

But, there are times when the intent is clear (during the 30s, if a German spy was caught, for instance).

Has he ever been to the U.S.?


How is that relevant?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 04:43:06 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?

Robert Hanssen was just telling the truth... would you defend what he did?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 04:46:23 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?

Only if the intent is to injure the U.S....... ::)

Again, Gramps, intent does not matter under the law.

I'd like you to answer this... he's been charged under 18 U.S.C. § 793 (e) and you're on the jury.  Where is the reasonable doubt for you to find him not guilty?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Ban my account ffs! on November 29, 2010, 04:54:35 PM
Nothing.

The government is responsible for keeping its classified documents leak-proof... not citizens who want to know what the documents say.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on November 29, 2010, 04:58:06 PM
Patrick made a good point. Who's actually been hurt by this? Not the American diplomatic service; we already knew it was an arrogant institution (it would be amazing if it weren't) and it seems that that's the worst thing revealed about the American government in any form. If anyone has been damaged it's the government's of certain Arab countries, who's fundamental hypocrisy has long been suspected and has now been confirmed beyond all reasonable doubt. Don't dress up a fetish for secrecy as the essence of security.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on November 29, 2010, 05:02:38 PM


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 05:23:07 PM
Nothing.

The government is responsible for keeping its classified documents leak-proof... not citizens who want to know what the documents say.

1. He's not a citizen.

2. In that case, if somebody hacked into government computers, you're saying they shouldn't be charged with a crime?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: cinyc on November 29, 2010, 06:04:51 PM
LOL, "espionage", "treason", "foreign spy".  Good luck getting him extradited to a country that still has a federal death penalty for such offenses, guys.

Who said anything about extradition?  There are plenty of ways governments deal with foreign spies, many times not by hauling them into court.

So you're advocating assassination?

Uh, that or GITMOesque living quarters...

It'd be pretty funny to see the U.S. invade Sweden to capture one of its residents and drag him to Gitmo...

Well, funny for crazy right-wing "patriots", of course.

Who said anything about assassination or invading Sweden?  There are ways to deal with foreign spies without assassinating them or "invading" foreign countries.  Letting the Swedes or Australians deal with him would be one.   Counterspying on him - perhaps publicly to make him know it and think twice before doing it again - would be another.  The guy is a foreign spy and should be treated as such.

Though if Assange did something like this to Russia or China, he would have eaten some polonium soup by now.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on November 29, 2010, 06:12:33 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?

Robert Hanssen was just telling the truth... would you defend what he did?
The two cases aren't comparable. Hanssen was feeding secrets to a supposed enemy nation for money and personal again. Assange and WikiLeaks are simply releasing information that all of the world has the right to know.

Of course I don't really care about the espionage games the two evil empires liked to play during the Cold War anyway. It just serves to illustrate what a joke the State is as an institution, Russian or American, capitalist or socialist.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on November 29, 2010, 07:05:07 PM
Though if Assange did something like this to Russia or China, he would have eaten some polonium soup by now.

But, you know, we don't want to be like those countries.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 07:36:11 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?

Robert Hanssen was just telling the truth... would you defend what he did?
The two cases aren't comparable. Hanssen was feeding secrets to a supposed enemy nation for money and personal again. Assange and WikiLeaks are simply releasing information that all of the world has the right to know.

Of course I don't really care about the espionage games the two evil empires liked to play during the Cold War anyway. It just serves to illustrate what a joke the State is as an institution, Russian or American, capitalist or socialist.

You simplified this to "truth-telling", or, telling something that is true.  That's all Robert Hanssen did... he just did "truth-telling" in secret.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on November 29, 2010, 07:36:29 PM
Nothing.

Assange is a major FF.

You should be grateful for this lesson.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on November 29, 2010, 08:39:05 PM
Truth-telling. It's illegal in the U.S. now, isn't it?

Robert Hanssen was just telling the truth... would you defend what he did?
The two cases aren't comparable. Hanssen was feeding secrets to a supposed enemy nation for money and personal again. Assange and WikiLeaks are simply releasing information that all of the world has the right to know.

Of course I don't really care about the espionage games the two evil empires liked to play during the Cold War anyway. It just serves to illustrate what a joke the State is as an institution, Russian or American, capitalist or socialist.

You simplified this to "truth-telling", or, telling something that is true.  That's all Robert Hanssen did... he just did "truth-telling" in secret.

And? I don't believe the State should have secrets (or exist, but that's another issue).

Hanssen does not deserve praise for funneling secrets to the Soviets in order to procure wealth for himself. Assange, on the other hand, is commendable for revealing truth to the world.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 09:04:05 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on November 29, 2010, 09:14:40 PM
I'm not sure Assange is a criminal, but why people would consider this admirable is beyond me. It's basically just f***cking with the system for its own sake. There's always going to be a distinction between public and private diplomacy, and if the risk of leaks increases, staff will just go even more off the record and phone each other rather than writing things down, and things will become even less accountable.

The phrase "real-life troll" is overused, but Assange is basically a paradigm case.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on November 29, 2010, 09:16:08 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on November 29, 2010, 09:17:47 PM
I'm not sure Assange is a criminal, but why people would consider this admirable is beyond me. It's basically just f***cking with the system for its own sake. There's always going to be a distinction between public and private diplomacy, and if the risk of leaks increases, staff will just go even more off the record and phone each other rather than writing things down, and things will become even less accountable.

The phrase "real-life troll" is overused, but Assange is basically a paradigm case.

This sort of stuff wasn't like Wikileaks was started though.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 09:39:18 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on November 29, 2010, 09:45:54 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well if they didn't do anything wrong, then what is there to hide?

Isn't that the excuse the government itself constantly uses to justify invading the privacy of its citizens?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: J. J. on November 29, 2010, 09:48:01 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well, here is an interesting question.

Somebody sends me a secret document, directly, in the mail.  I scan it, and place it online.  I probably can't be charged with espionage.

Maybe, publishing secret documents, but what if it's from China?  I have not broken any US laws.  Do I have an obligation to obey the laws of another country that I've never visited?  I didn't hack a computer in China; I was just sitting in my house when the mail showed up.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Free Palestine on November 29, 2010, 10:01:56 PM
I was wondering -- could those rape charges against him be legit, or is it just some BS they're using to hold him on?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Platypus on November 29, 2010, 10:05:21 PM
Irrelevance?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 10:07:48 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well if they didn't do anything wrong, then what is there to hide?

National security secrets.  You realize that your logic for "if they didn't do anything wrong, what is there to hid" is the argument that some governments have used to pry into civilians lives...


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 29, 2010, 10:09:11 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well, here is an interesting question.

Somebody sends me a secret document, directly, in the mail.  I scan it, and place it online.  I probably can't be charged with espionage.

Maybe, publishing secret documents, but what if it's from China?  I have not broken any US laws.  Do I have an obligation to obey the laws of another country that I've never visited?  I didn't hack a computer in China; I was just sitting in my house when the mail showed up.

If it's a document that's property of the U.S., you can be charged.  That doesn't mean you'll be extradited...


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: ?????????? on November 29, 2010, 10:50:44 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well if they didn't do anything wrong, then what is there to hide?

National security secrets.  You realize that your logic for "if they didn't do anything wrong, what is there to hid" is the argument that some governments have used to pry into civilians lives...

If you didn't cut out half his post you would have seen he was making a point. :P


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Robespierre's Jaw on November 29, 2010, 11:45:29 PM
High Treason or the Gulag would suffice. (I'm surprised these options haven't been discussed!)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2010, 12:50:26 AM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well if they didn't do anything wrong, then what is there to hide?

National security secrets.  You realize that your logic for "if they didn't do anything wrong, what is there to hid" is the argument that some governments have used to pry into civilians lives...

If you didn't cut out half his post you would have seen he was making a point. :P

I don't even remember cutting that out... or seeing it when I responded to it.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on November 30, 2010, 12:53:34 AM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well if they didn't do anything wrong, then what is there to hide?

National security secrets.  You realize that your logic for "if they didn't do anything wrong, what is there to hid" is the argument that some governments have used to pry into civilians lives...

If you didn't cut out half his post you would have seen he was making a point. :P

I don't even remember cutting that out... or seeing it when I responded to it.

I promise you it was there in the original post; I never edited it. ;)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on November 30, 2010, 01:07:01 AM
The real criminals are those that are upset about the truth coming out.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2010, 02:00:40 AM
The real criminals are those that are upset about the truth coming out.

Ahh yes, because those of us who want to uphold the laws of the U.S. have really committed a crime in doing so. ::)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Zarn on November 30, 2010, 05:59:08 AM
Charge the leakers with espionage or treason.

I don't know about our friend Julian. He's not a good person, but that doesn't mean we just charge him with whatever.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 30, 2010, 08:57:16 AM
Ok, Inks, did you support an effort inside of Germany to indict Donald Rumsfeld, George J. Tenet, former Central Intelligence Agency director; Stephen A. Cambone, undersecretary of defense for intelligence; David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff; Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, former commander of US forces in Iraq; and Colonel Thomas Pappas, the former top intelligence official in Iraq for war crimes? (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/11/charges_sought_against_rumsfeld/)

If the indictment would have been issued, should we have loaded them on a plane and sent them to be tried, or now, since they're all retired, if German charges them with war crimes, what do we do?  They might be guilty under German law......."German law provides "universal jurisdiction," allowing for the prosecution of war crimes committed anywhere, said Rattner, who is in Berlin preparing the case."


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 30, 2010, 10:02:50 AM
A very good analysis by WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/29/AR2010112905973.html)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: ?????????? on November 30, 2010, 11:37:59 AM
Interesting how no Clinton era papers are on this release. Pretty benign stuff anyway.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: phk on November 30, 2010, 01:35:14 PM
I believe whoever is leaking things to him is probably breaking his NDA that he signed.

It really would be if I took an old employer's customer list (which is their property) and leaked it, for no reason.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 30, 2010, 01:36:45 PM
I believe whoever is leaking things to him is probably breaking his NDA that he signed.

And I'm not content to think it's some lowly service man leaking it.......I think he has a very high placed source.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: WillK on November 30, 2010, 02:27:23 PM
[quote author=Assemblyman & Queen Mum Inks.LWC
I'd like you to answer this... he's been charged under 18 U.S.C. § 793 (e) and you're on the jury.  Where is the reasonable doubt for you to find him not guilty?
[/quote]

Section 793 is about "defense information" and part (e) refers to information "relating to the national defense".   Does what Wikileaks released qualify? 


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2010, 03:18:21 PM
Ok, Inks, did you support an effort inside of Germany to indict Donald Rumsfeld, George J. Tenet, former Central Intelligence Agency director; Stephen A. Cambone, undersecretary of defense for intelligence; David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff; Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, former commander of US forces in Iraq; and Colonel Thomas Pappas, the former top intelligence official in Iraq for war crimes? (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/11/charges_sought_against_rumsfeld/)

If the indictment would have been issued, should we have loaded them on a plane and sent them to be tried, or now, since they're all retired, if German charges them with war crimes, what do we do?  They might be guilty under German law......."German law provides "universal jurisdiction," allowing for the prosecution of war crimes committed anywhere, said Rattner, who is in Berlin preparing the case."

I have no problem with Germany charging Rumsfeld with war crimes.  I don't think he authorized torture, however, so it's unlikely that the U.S. would extradite him.

I'm not saying that we need to demand Assange be extradited... that's up to the government of the country he's in at the time.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2010, 03:19:12 PM
Interesting how no Clinton era papers are on this release. Pretty benign stuff anyway.

You're right... it jumps from 1990 to 2003... interesting.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on November 30, 2010, 03:22:20 PM
the Julian Assange's aren't the real problem, rather it's the fact the intelligence and diplomacy departments of the U.S. are filled with antiAmericans.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 30, 2010, 03:23:43 PM
[quote author=Assemblyman & Queen Mum Inks.LWC
I'd like you to answer this... he's been charged under 18 U.S.C. § 793 (e) and you're on the jury.  Where is the reasonable doubt for you to find him not guilty?

Section 793 is about "defense information" and part (e) refers to information "relating to the national defense".   Does what Wikileaks released qualify? 

[/quote]

I would say some of this falls under national defense.

Even if you don't buy that argument, there's 18 U.S.C. § 798, which makes it unlawful to publish classified information, specifically, "concerning the communication intelligence activities of the
United States or any foreign government".


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: J. J. on November 30, 2010, 09:05:32 PM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well, here is an interesting question.

Somebody sends me a secret document, directly, in the mail.  I scan it, and place it online.  I probably can't be charged with espionage.

Maybe, publishing secret documents, but what if it's from China?  I have not broken any US laws.  Do I have an obligation to obey the laws of another country that I've never visited?  I didn't hack a computer in China; I was just sitting in my house when the mail showed up.

If it's a document that's property of the U.S., you can be charged.  That doesn't mean you'll be extradited...

For what?  The document showed up.  I didn't steal it?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: WillK on November 30, 2010, 09:34:13 PM
[quote author=Assemblyman & Queen Mum Inks.LWC
I'd like you to answer this... he's been charged under 18 U.S.C. § 793 (e) and you're on the jury.  Where is the reasonable doubt for you to find him not guilty?

Section 793 is about "defense information" and part (e) refers to information "relating to the national defense".   Does what Wikileaks released qualify? 



I would say some of this falls under national defense.

Even if you don't buy that argument, there's 18 U.S.C. § 798, which makes it unlawful to publish classified information, specifically, "concerning the communication intelligence activities of the
United States or any foreign government".
[/quote]

I think that's a better choice of citation to use against wikileaks.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 01, 2010, 01:27:10 AM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well, here is an interesting question.

Somebody sends me a secret document, directly, in the mail.  I scan it, and place it online.  I probably can't be charged with espionage.

Maybe, publishing secret documents, but what if it's from China?  I have not broken any US laws.  Do I have an obligation to obey the laws of another country that I've never visited?  I didn't hack a computer in China; I was just sitting in my house when the mail showed up.

If it's a document that's property of the U.S., you can be charged.  That doesn't mean you'll be extradited...

For what?  The document showed up.  I didn't steal it?

That doesn't matter.  Both 18 U.S.C. § 798 and 793 have sections that say you can be charged for either posession or even the transmission and/ or publication of classified documents.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: J. J. on December 01, 2010, 01:44:29 AM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well, here is an interesting question.

Somebody sends me a secret document, directly, in the mail.  I scan it, and place it online.  I probably can't be charged with espionage.

Maybe, publishing secret documents, but what if it's from China?  I have not broken any US laws.  Do I have an obligation to obey the laws of another country that I've never visited?  I didn't hack a computer in China; I was just sitting in my house when the mail showed up.

If it's a document that's property of the U.S., you can be charged.  That doesn't mean you'll be extradited...

For what?  The document showed up.  I didn't steal it?

That doesn't matter.  Both 18 U.S.C. § 798 and 793 have sections that say you can be charged for either posession or even the transmission and/ or publication of classified documents.

And I think that's going to be your first amendment issue.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 01, 2010, 02:44:15 AM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well, here is an interesting question.

Somebody sends me a secret document, directly, in the mail.  I scan it, and place it online.  I probably can't be charged with espionage.

Maybe, publishing secret documents, but what if it's from China?  I have not broken any US laws.  Do I have an obligation to obey the laws of another country that I've never visited?  I didn't hack a computer in China; I was just sitting in my house when the mail showed up.

If it's a document that's property of the U.S., you can be charged.  That doesn't mean you'll be extradited...

For what?  The document showed up.  I didn't steal it?

That doesn't matter.  Both 18 U.S.C. § 798 and 793 have sections that say you can be charged for either posession or even the transmission and/ or publication of classified documents.

And I think that's going to be your first amendment issue.

Even if he argues that, he can still be charged under 793 for conspiracy to commit (although there's no ctc clause in 798).


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: opebo on December 01, 2010, 09:26:44 AM
the Julian Assange's aren't the real problem, rather it's the fact the intelligence and diplomacy departments of the U.S. are filled with antiAmericans.

Plenty of Germans who fought or fled the Nazis were called 'anti-German', too, jmfcst.  Those leakers are heroes for trying to expose our murderous empire.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on December 01, 2010, 09:33:09 AM
The state shouldn't exist?  Pure anarchy doesn't work.

Well it does, but that's not the pertinent issue here. Let's focus on why the State is addicted to committing crimes and then arresting people for exposing said crimes.

What crimes were committed as evidenced by this release of documents?

Well, here is an interesting question.

Somebody sends me a secret document, directly, in the mail.  I scan it, and place it online.  I probably can't be charged with espionage.

Maybe, publishing secret documents, but what if it's from China?  I have not broken any US laws.  Do I have an obligation to obey the laws of another country that I've never visited?  I didn't hack a computer in China; I was just sitting in my house when the mail showed up.

If it's a document that's property of the U.S., you can be charged.  That doesn't mean you'll be extradited...

For what?  The document showed up.  I didn't steal it?

That doesn't matter.  Both 18 U.S.C. § 798 and 793 have sections that say you can be charged for either posession or even the transmission and/ or publication of classified documents.

And I think that's going to be your first amendment issue.

Even if he argues that, he can still be charged under 793 for conspiracy to commit (although there's no ctc clause in 798).

Inks, the WaPo article I linked even suggested first amendment issue might trump this stuff and the Feds will be careful on this, trust me.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 01, 2010, 11:53:03 AM
And that may happen.  I'm not going to speculate as to what the Court would do here, but I do think that he could at least be charged under one of the statutes I noted.  Now, could it be challenged?  Of course.  I just don't know which way the SCOTUS would decide.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: J. J. on December 01, 2010, 03:53:17 PM
And that may happen.  I'm not going to speculate as to what the Court would do here, but I do think that he could at least be charged under one of the statutes I noted.  Now, could it be challenged?  Of course.  I just don't know which way the SCOTUS would decide.

There is a jurisdictional problem as well.

How does US statute apply to a non citizen outside of any US territory and not having any direct dealing with the US?  How is Assange even under the jurisdiction of US law?

You can say that violates a statute, but how does Assange suddenly fall under the statute?  We can legally limit the actions of US citizens abroad; we can limit what a non-citizen does in the US, or it territories.  How does the statute extend to non-citizens that are not within US jurisdiction?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: opebo on December 01, 2010, 03:56:40 PM
They're going to have him smeared in Sweden, then perhaps he'll 'commit suicide' in prison.  They'll be subtle, but it'll still be obvious enough.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 03, 2010, 06:33:44 PM
In any case, I suspect that Time is gonna name Assange Person of the Year 2010. This is if they stick to the actual definition of "for better or for worse, ...has done the most to influence the events of the year."

Full list of candidates:
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2028734,00.html

He surely won't be beaten by Lady Gaga. :P

His chances could be hurt by Time's recent reluctance to select perceived enemies of the United States though (despite the fact that even Hitler was Person of the Year once).


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: J. J. on December 03, 2010, 07:16:26 PM
In any case, I suspect that Time is gonna name Assange Person of the Year 2010. This is if they stick to the actual definition of "for better or for worse, ...has done the most to influence the events of the year."

Full list of candidates:
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2028734,00.html

He surely won't be beaten by Lady Gaga. :P

His chances could be hurt by Time's recent reluctance to select perceived enemies of the United States though (despite the fact that even Hitler was Person of the Year once).

As they did with the Ayatollah Khomeini.  They just did a cover story on Assange.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Joe Republic on December 03, 2010, 07:26:10 PM
I believe whoever is leaking things to him is probably breaking his NDA that he signed.

And I'm not content to think it's some lowly service man leaking it.......I think he has a very high placed source.

Maybe they figured out Biden's password?  "coke&hookers123" or something, probably.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 03, 2010, 08:02:15 PM
I believe whoever is leaking things to him is probably breaking his NDA that he signed.

And I'm not content to think it's some lowly service man leaking it.......I think he has a very high placed source.

Maybe they figured out Biden's password?  "coke&hookers123" or something, probably.

I'd like to think it's "thisisabigf****ingpassword" ;)


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: J. J. on December 03, 2010, 09:27:13 PM
I believe whoever is leaking things to him is probably breaking his NDA that he signed.

And I'm not content to think it's some lowly service man leaking it.......I think he has a very high placed source.

Maybe they figured out Biden's password?  "coke&hookers123" or something, probably.

I'd like to think it's "thisisabigf****ingpassword" ;)

Don't be silly.  Biden would be using Lord Kinnock's password.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Zarn on December 03, 2010, 09:43:13 PM
I figured his password would be the punchline of a racist joke or his name.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Inverted Things on December 04, 2010, 10:28:44 AM
It is. Our constitution is pretty clear that what Mr Assange is doing counts as Freedom of Speech. The crime is commited  by the people who leak the information to him.

Which is also true under US law. See the publishing of the Pentagon Papers or Bob Novak exposing Valerie Plame. Neither the NY Times or Novak broke any laws.

How does what Assange did not fall under the statute that I cited?

It probably does fall under the statute, but the statute is (or rather could be*) trumped by the whole "freedom of the press" business in the first amendment.

* If Assange is caught, this will go all the way to the Supreme Court.  I'd be surprised if they didn't come down on the side of the first amendment.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: ?????????? on December 04, 2010, 10:33:29 AM
The problem with him being convicted is that he is basically just copying information given to him by a third source. Is that any difference from a journalist who uses a whistle blower to expose corruption? Also, what needs to be considered is that these documents were confidential and secret but not TOP secret, I think a distinction needs to be made. Some of the memos were already known about but hadn't been viewed by the public. Charge him with a crime if he divulges blueprints to a nuclear sub but not for memos that embarrass the State Department. I think we should embarrass them from time to time, it keeps them honest.

If they aren't doing anything wrong, what do they have to hide?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on December 04, 2010, 10:41:05 AM
Inks, what should the newspapers who publish or link to wikileaks get charged with?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: ?????????? on December 04, 2010, 11:11:53 AM
Inks, what should the newspapers who publish or link to wikileaks get charged with?

Since wikileaks has been shut down, I'd imagine nothing. :P


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on December 04, 2010, 11:14:19 AM
Inks, what should the newspapers who publish or link to wikileaks get charged with?

Since wikileaks has been shut down, I'd imagine nothing. :P

So don't charge Assange if that's the case, right?


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Nhoj on December 04, 2010, 12:44:01 PM
Inks, what should the newspapers who publish or link to wikileaks get charged with?

Since wikileaks has been shut down, I'd imagine nothing. :P
wikileaks Hasnt been shut down just the .org domain, they moved the website to Switzerland now or something.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: ?????????? on December 04, 2010, 12:51:27 PM
Inks, what should the newspapers who publish or link to wikileaks get charged with?

Since wikileaks has been shut down, I'd imagine nothing. :P
wikileaks Hasnt been shut down just the .org domain, they moved the website to Switzerland now or something.

Link to new website? Effectively it has been though.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 04, 2010, 12:55:56 PM
http://www.wikileaks.ch/


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 04, 2010, 05:27:36 PM
Inks, what should the newspapers who publish or link to wikileaks get charged with?

Link to... nothing.

Publish.  They could at least be charged with Section 798 (assuming what they publish was part of one of the classified documents... not everything Assange released was classified).


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Free Palestine on December 04, 2010, 09:01:21 PM

Switzerland may be the best place for that site to go.  Torrent sites should go there next.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 07, 2010, 05:17:54 PM
Glenn Beck is defending Assange against the alleged rape charges (which, even I'll admit are shady AT BEST)... but this is kinda weird.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Lief 🗽 on December 07, 2010, 07:13:57 PM
Glenn Beck is defending Assange against the alleged rape charges (which, even I'll admit are shady AT BEST)... but this is kinda weird.

Well, I heard on the internet that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young woman in 1990, so this isn't surprising.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on December 07, 2010, 07:25:31 PM
Glenn Beck is defending Assange against the alleged rape charges (which, even I'll admit are shady AT BEST)... but this is kinda weird.

Well, I heard on the internet that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young woman in 1990, so this isn't surprising.

Well, I heard 9/11 was an inside job, and that you can charge an ipod with an onion.

For the record: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/glenn-beck-rape-murder-hoax


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: Robespierre's Jaw on December 08, 2010, 12:52:29 AM
Can't believe any of us thought of rape.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: ?????????? on December 08, 2010, 04:17:37 PM

Apparently if you don't wear a condom and the female changes her mind you can be charged with rape in Sweden.


Title: Re: What should Julian Assange be charged with?
Post by: opebo on December 08, 2010, 04:37:32 PM

Apparently if you don't wear a condom and the female changes her mind you can be charged with rape in Sweden.

I think they're considering outlawing certain testosterone levels in that gynarchy.