Talk Elections

General Politics => Political Geography & Demographics => Topic started by: Sam Spade on December 21, 2010, 01:46:49 PM



Title: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 21, 2010, 01:46:49 PM
Just as an FYI - don't be surprised to see Texas GOPers try to use Aaron Pena's recent switch to steal a seat (I doubt it's successful - but others have noted it too, and gaining four seats makes it more likely).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 23, 2010, 05:24:53 PM
()

The district in blue is District 10 in which Lloyd Doggett would face off against Michael McCaul. This district is 46 percent white 12 percent black 35 percent Hispanic 6 percent Asian and 1 percent Other. Obama got 71 percent in this district, so Doggett would most likely mop the floor against McCaul.

The pink district is District 31 which includes the least liberal areas of Travis County and the most liberal areas of Williamson County. A very swing district where Obama got slightly over 50 percent. John Carter would be the incumbent in this district. Not sure who would run against him though. The whites in this district are far more progressive than whites in the rest of the state as this district is 76 percent white.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: CatoMinor on December 23, 2010, 05:43:18 PM
Considering the make up of next years legislature, a likely speaker who isn't afraid to Gerrymander, and a douchebag governor,  Doggett probably won't get such a nice looking district as the one in your map shows.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on December 23, 2010, 06:22:29 PM
Considering the make up of next years legislature, a likely speaker who isn't afraid to Gerrymander, and a douchebag governor,  Doggett probably won't get such a nice looking district as the one in your map shows.

Yeah, he will. Austin is growing too fast and is too strongly Democratic to try to split up any more. It would just make Republican incumbents vulnerable. The Republicans will give Doggett a very safe seat and pack the Democrats in Austin in.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 23, 2010, 10:08:53 PM
Considering the make up of next years legislature, a likely speaker who isn't afraid to Gerrymander, and a douchebag governor,  Doggett probably won't get such a nice looking district as the one in your map shows.

Yeah, he will. Austin is growing too fast and is too strongly Democratic to try to split up any more. It would just make Republican incumbents vulnerable. The Republicans will give Doggett a very safe seat and pack the Democrats in Austin in.

I suspect the Texas GOP's interest in playing with Doggett will be directly inverse to the number of Hispanic districts they're forced to draw. 

Nevertheless, never, ever underestimate what Texas lawmakers will attempt to get away with in redistricting.  The plan for subdividing Austin into a million pieces is probably out there.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 23, 2010, 10:45:32 PM
()

This is the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex.

I will start with the blue district which is District 32. This district is a microcosm of what Dallas County politically speaking looked like 20 years ago. This district is 55 percent white and McCain got 54 percent in this district. Pete Sessions and Kenny Marchant would face each other in a primary in this district

The district in green is District 5. This district is 44 percent white, 23 percent black, 3 percent Asian, 29 percent Hispanic and 1 percent other. Obama got 59 percent in this district. Jeb Hensarling would run in this district, but he would have to run as an Olympia Snowe like Republican to keep this seat.

The district in purple is District 30. This district is 29 percent white, 35 percent black, 3 percent Asian, 34 percent Hispanic and 9 percent other. Obama got 74 percent in this district. Eddie Bernice Johnson would run in this district. She is currently in her mid 70s, so Royce West or Rafael Anchia may run in this district when she retires.

The turqoise district is District 24. This district is 52 percent white and Obama got 53 percent in this district. If Martin Frost ever wants to make a political comeback, this seat is open for him. If not, State Senator Wendy Davis or State Rep Mark Veasey or Lon Burnam could run here.

The district in silver is District 33. This has a lot of wealthy areas like Southlake, Richland Hills, Grapevine, Euless etc. This district is 73 percent white and McCain got 62 percent in this district. I'm not sure who would run in this district, maybe State Rep. Vicki Truitt?

The light purple looking district is District 12. This takes in western Tarrant County plus some counties to the north and west. This district is 75 percent white and McCain got 65 percent in this district. Kay Granger should be more than happy to run in this district.

The yellow district is District 3. This takes in parts of Collin County. This is a very affluent district and 76 percent white. McCain got 61 percent in this district. Sam Johnson of course would represent this district, but he is currently 80 years old. Once he retires, I could see Florence Shapiro run in this district.




Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 23, 2010, 11:06:13 PM
()

The district in yellow is District 18. This district is 31 percent white 22 percent black 4 percent Asian and 43 percent Hispanic. Obama got 65 percent of the vote here. Sheila Jackson Lee would run in this district. Although not as strongly democratic as the original TX-18, Sheila will be fine here.

The orange district is District 9. This district takes south central Houston, plus some black Missouri City neighborhoods in Fort Bend County. This district is 20 percent white, 37 percent black, 11 percent Asian, and 32 percent Hispanic. Obama got 73 percent here. Safe democrat.

The light green district is District 29. It takes in northeastern Harris County. Gene Green and Ted Poe would run up against each other. It would be a toss up race. This district is 43 percent white 20 percent black 3 percent Asian and 34 percent Hispanic. Obama got 51 percent of the vote here.

The purple district is district 34. It takes in the fast growing northwest part of Harris County. This district is 55 percent white and McCain got 58 percent of the vote here. State Senator Dan Patrick may run here.

The light green district in west Houston is District 7. This district is 58 percent white and McCain got 59 percent of the vote here. John Culberson should be fine here.

The puke green district to the southeast, District 35, is what puzzles me. This district is very working class with Pasadena, Baytown, Deer Park, LaPorte all being blue collar communities. But McCain got 55 percent here. What's more interesting is that this district is 47 percent white 5 percent black 3 percent Asian and 44 percent Hispanic. Maybe many hispanics aren't old enough to vote yet or maybe the whites in this district are Archie Bunker types. Some republican from the legislature will probably run here, but the district should be competitive by 2018 or 2020.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 23, 2010, 11:23:29 PM
()

This is the San Antonio area. The light green area is District 20. This takes in the urban precincts in San Antonio and is 21 percent white 10 percent black 2 percent Asian 66 percent Hispanic and 1 percent Other. Barack Obama got 64 percent in this district. Charlie Gonzalez should be fine in this district.

The light blue district is District 36. This district is very moderate in nature. This district is 46 percent white, 44 percent hispanic, 5 percent black, 3 percent Asian, and 1 percent other. McCain got slightly over 50 percent in this district. I made this district so that if Speaker Joe Strauss ever wants to run for congress, there would be a district waiting for him.

The tan colored district is District 21, this takes in the most exurban (and most republican) parts of Bexar County as well as the donut counties. This district is 60 percent white and McCain got 63 percent here. Lamar Smith should be happy running in this district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 24, 2010, 01:06:05 AM
Considering the make up of next years legislature, a likely speaker who isn't afraid to Gerrymander, and a douchebag governor,  Doggett probably won't get such a nice looking district as the one in your map shows.

Yeah, he will. Austin is growing too fast and is too strongly Democratic to try to split up any more. It would just make Republican incumbents vulnerable. The Republicans will give Doggett a very safe seat and pack the Democrats in Austin in.
I suspect the Texas GOP's interest in playing with Doggett will be directly inverse to the number of Hispanic districts they're forced to draw. 

Nevertheless, never, ever underestimate what Texas lawmakers will attempt to get away with in redistricting.  The plan for subdividing Austin into a million pieces is probably out there.
Maldef or Lulac had proposed an Austin-San Antonio district as their remedy back in 2006.  That could pull some Democrats out of Bexar, making Canseco safer.  So Doggett's district becomes a Hispanic-opportunity district.  Create a district in Cameron-Hidalgo, which means Farenthold's district becomes pure Coastal Bend.  And move the Big Bend into Cuellar's district.




Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: CatoMinor on December 24, 2010, 01:10:24 PM

As much as I would love to see Harris county districts look that nice, that map would probably see lawsuits with the VRA. Central Harris county should have a majority black district, a two Hispanic majority districts, one on each side. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 24, 2010, 05:19:37 PM
()

This purple district is District 15. Thanks to population growth, Hidalgo County can have a congressional district entirely within the county. At 88 percent Hispanic, this district could easily be the most hispanic in the country. Barack Obama got 69 percent in this district so Ruben Hinojosa should be safe here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 24, 2010, 05:25:59 PM
()

This is the El Paso Area. District 16 changes very little. It is 76 percent Hispanic, 18 percent White, 2 percent Asian, and 4 percent Other. Obama got 65 percent in this district so Silvestre Reyes is fine here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 24, 2010, 05:34:04 PM
()

This is West Central Texas. Right here is District 19 in light orange. Randy Naw-guh-bower would face mike Conaway in a primary. District 19 is probably the smallest it has ever been since it was originally drawn in the 1930s. It takes in the west texas cities of Lubbock Midland and Odessa. Still this is a 59 percent white district and is a safe seat for any republican to run in as McCain got 72 percent here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 24, 2010, 06:34:52 PM
()

This picture here is of the Edwards Plateau. The district in light brown is District 11. I'm not sure who would run here, maybe Susan King or Jimmie Aycock from the State Assembly. This is a safe republican district at 67 percent white and McCain also getting 67 percent here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 24, 2010, 07:45:51 PM
Considering the make up of next years legislature, a likely speaker who isn't afraid to Gerrymander, and a douchebag governor,  Doggett probably won't get such a nice looking district as the one in your map shows.

Yeah, he will. Austin is growing too fast and is too strongly Democratic to try to split up any more. It would just make Republican incumbents vulnerable. The Republicans will give Doggett a very safe seat and pack the Democrats in Austin in.
I suspect the Texas GOP's interest in playing with Doggett will be directly inverse to the number of Hispanic districts they're forced to draw. 

Nevertheless, never, ever underestimate what Texas lawmakers will attempt to get away with in redistricting.  The plan for subdividing Austin into a million pieces is probably out there.
Maldef or Lulac had proposed an Austin-San Antonio district as their remedy back in 2006.  That could pull some Democrats out of Bexar, making Canseco safer.  So Doggett's district becomes a Hispanic-opportunity district.  Create a district in Cameron-Hidalgo, which means Farenthold's district becomes pure Coastal Bend.  And move the Big Bend into Cuellar's district.

Makes sense from the GOP angle, which means I wouldn't be surprised if they do it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 24, 2010, 08:53:32 PM
()

This picture here is the same as last, only zoomed out. The tan/light brown looking district would be District 6, where Joe Barton would face Bill Flores in a primary.  It takes in areas directly south of the Metroplex, including Waco. Barton would most likely win considering he has been around a lot longer. This district is 74 percent white and McCain got 69 percent of the vote here, so any Republican is safe.

The pink/ruby looking district is District 8 which takes in the area along I-45 between Houston and Dallas. Kevin Brady would represent this district and at 78 percent white and 73 percent McCain, he is safe here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 25, 2010, 01:01:20 AM
Without having to do this myself, are we going to get any realistic looks at what's going to go on here? 

Those who want to post ideas need to start thinking like a partisan Republican that thinks all Dems are Commie fags who rape kids - because that's who will draw the maps.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on December 25, 2010, 01:24:05 AM
Chopping up Austin won't get DoJ preclearance and would likely fail in court anyway just like the old border district from DeLay that was shot down.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 25, 2010, 12:51:51 PM
Remember the last hispanic-opportunity district for Doggett? ;)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 25, 2010, 12:52:42 PM
Without having to do this myself, are we going to get any realistic looks at what's going to go on here? 

Those who want to post ideas need to start thinking like a partisan Republican that thinks all Dems are Commie fags who rape kids - because that's who will draw the maps.
Fags who rape kids? Yeah. I for one wouldn't be surprised.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 25, 2010, 01:48:15 PM
()

Here is the area commonly referred to as "North Texas". The red district is District 4. This district is 69 percent white and takes in Rockwall County, Grayson County, rural parts of Collin County, Northeastern Dallas County and some of Hunt County. McCain got 62 percent in this district, so while not as safe as his old district, he should be fine here. But Ralph Hall is 570 years old and should be retiring soon anyways. I could see longtime state rep Joe Driver run in this district if he can put his corruption days behind him.

This also shows a zoomed out view of Kay Granger's new 12th District which is in light purple.

The Pink District is District 26. It takes in all of fast growing Denton County plus some of southern Cooke County. This district is 77 percent white and McCain got 62 percent here, so Burgess is slightly more safe.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 25, 2010, 02:07:26 PM
()

This is the area known as East Texas. Back in the day this area led the nation in lynchings I believe. So naturally a reactionary type is going to represent these districts.

The lime district in the top right (and also shown in the last post) takes in the areas of northeast Texas that used to be in CD 4, plus some areas of CD 1. I renamed this district CD 25. I can see State Senator Bob Deuell run in this district.

The lavender district in the center right of this district is District 1. This belongs to none other than four term congressman Louie Gohmert. He is the epitome of East Texas with his delusions that "homosexuality leads to bestiality" or that "congress has been taken over by demons" or my personal favorite, that "terror babies are crossing the border". At 71 percent white and McCain getting 70 percent in this district, Gohmert can be assured that like minded twats will continue to re-elect him into the foreseeable future.

The darker green district to the southeast is District 2. This has no incumbent and turncoat Allen Ritter may run in this district. This district is not nearly as republican as district 1 due to Jefferson County, which has always been democratic and even voted for Walter Mondale. But this district is still 69 percent white and McCain got 63 percent here, so this district is Safe Republican.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 25, 2010, 02:09:36 PM
East Texas had some highly decent Congressmen until 2004. (And no, I don't recall ever hearing that Texas led the nation in lynchings. Unless you mean since 1965. Or maybe East Texas led within Texas? Would make sense.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 25, 2010, 02:23:18 PM
()

This is south central Texas. All the districts are drawn very neatly. The only district that was slightly f---ed up was the district that took in all the areas within a couple miles of Austin-SA. It is in dark brown. Despite being this far south, this district is 65 percent white and McCain got 62 percent in this district. Not sure who would represent this district, which I named CD 23.

The dark blue district takes in most of Corpus Christi and runs through the Gulf Coast all the way up to Lake Jackson. This district is District 14 and Blake Farenthold would face Ron Paul in a primary. This district is 49 percent white, 42 percent hispanic, 7 percent black, 2 percent Asian, and 1 percent other. Despite the low white population, McCain got 60 percent here. A safe republican seat, but could become competitive by the end of the decade.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 25, 2010, 02:29:26 PM
()

This is the far southern parts of Texas. In fact Brownsville is as far south as Miami. This green district is District 27. This is an open seat that would be open for longtime legislature member Rene Oliveira to run in if he wants. This district is 80 percent hispanic 17 percent white 1 percent black 1 percent Asian 1 percent other. Obama got 61 percent here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 25, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
The only district that was slightly f---ed up was the district that took in all the areas within a couple miles of Austin-SA. It is in dark brown.
Slightly? Lolwut?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: CatoMinor on December 25, 2010, 04:00:54 PM
()

I think this map is a more realistic version of Houston.

Districts 18 and 29 are black and Hispanic, the rest are all fairly strong McCain districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 25, 2010, 04:33:07 PM
That would eliminate a Black (well, Black-held multiracial) district in Houston. Probably not going to fly with the DoJ, I suppose.

(Still, it's more realistic compared to crusher's maps... since Democrats aren't going to draw the map.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Padfoot on December 25, 2010, 05:16:53 PM
()

I think this map is a more realistic version of Houston.

Districts 18 and 29 are black and Hispanic, the rest are all fairly strong McCain districts.

I believe that it is now possible to draw two majority Hispanic districts in addition to one black majority district in the Houston area.  Currently the 9th is a minority coalition district so I assume that it will be altered to become Hispanic majority and the remaining area can be cut up to prevent any new Democrats from getting elected.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 25, 2010, 05:33:32 PM
Remember the last hispanic-opportunity district for Doggett? ;)
Approved by the DOJ and a federal court that had been picked by the Democrats.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sbane on December 25, 2010, 05:39:42 PM
Are two Hispanic districts going to be required in Houston? I drew a 60% Hispanic district, but it was still 58% Obama. The rest of the Hispanics I put in Republican districts. I turned the 18th into a lean Republican district that voted 51-49 Mccain. It contains Hispanic areas and north Harris county suburbs, and is about 32% Hispanic. My 8th consists of Montgomery county and then a sliver down into Harris to pick up some Hispanic areas. That district is 29% Hispanic, but still voted for Mccain with 69% of the vote. I suppose that could be considered diluting the vote, and might not get past the courts.

I put all Houston Blacks in one district, which voted about 90-9 Obama. Republicans will definitely try to draw that district, and it's only 60% black so I don't know if that will be considered packing. You definitely can't draw two Black majority districts there. But how good of an argument is to say that Blacks need two opportunity districts? I suspect Hispanics will get another district but Blacks won't. 

I split Austin in four, but I fear I may have drawn too few Hispanic districts overall. I am guessing Austin Hispanics get put into a district with South Texas, though the courts frowned upon that last time, right?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 25, 2010, 06:11:18 PM
The issue with Hispanics is that unless they're a majority with a sizable black population or, at minimum, over 60% in number (better yet 65%), you never get the result you want in Texas.  They either don't show up - or if they're in the suburbs, they tend to vote more Republican than you want them to.

My gut tells me that the Houston area is going to remain the same and the three minority CDs will simply expand outward to take in more minorities (since the population was either stable or declined).  You can pack the blacks, but then the second Hispanic district will elect a white Dem or maybe a white GOP if you draw it deviously enough.  Besides, the black reps are not going to be happy giving away one of their CDs.

Dallas is rather simple in comparison - the new Hispanic district can be drawn out of 24 and 32 and everyone will be happy.

Rather, the game is going to be in San Antonio, Austin and South Texas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sbane on December 25, 2010, 06:44:52 PM
Yup, Dallas was very easy to draw. Just draw the new Hispanic district and everything falls in place.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on December 25, 2010, 06:45:44 PM
Are two Hispanic districts going to be required in Houston? I drew a 60% Hispanic district, but it was still 58% Obama. The rest of the Hispanics I put in Republican districts. I turned the 18th into a lean Republican district that voted 51-49 Mccain. It contains Hispanic areas and north Harris county suburbs, and is about 32% Hispanic. My 8th consists of Montgomery county and then a sliver down into Harris to pick up some Hispanic areas. That district is 29% Hispanic, but still voted for Mccain with 69% of the vote. I suppose that could be considered diluting the vote, and might not get past the courts.

I put all Houston Blacks in one district, which voted about 90-9 Obama. Republicans will definitely try to draw that district, and it's only 60% black so I don't know if that will be considered packing. You definitely can't draw two Black majority districts there. But how good of an argument is to say that Blacks need two opportunity districts? I suspect Hispanics will get another district but Blacks won't. 

I split Austin in four, but I fear I may have drawn too few Hispanic districts overall. I am guessing Austin Hispanics get put into a district with South Texas, though the courts frowned upon that last time, right?

Last year I posted a Houston area map assuming 36 districts. It includes a black majority district (light blue 9) and two Hispanic majority districts (yellow 18 and olive 29). CD 29 is a solid 68% Hispanic, and easily defensible as a VRA district. CD 18 is at 57% Hispanic with 21% black and will probably be over 50% Hispanic VAP to satisfy section 2. I'll leave it to the local experts to determine how well it would elect a candidate of choice.

As I drew it there are still only three Harris county districts for Dems. That should give the GOP a shot a the new CD 35 (purple). It's a net increase of minority districts and of GOP districts.

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 25, 2010, 08:09:09 PM
()

This district here is of the surrounding area of Houston. The light blue district is District 22. It takes in all of Fort Bend west of HWY 59 and snakes up to Sealy towards College Station. This district is 63 percent white and McCain also got 63 percent here. Pete Olson should be fine here.

The orange looking district south of Harris County is District 17. This district takes in all of Galveston, most of Brazoria, and parts of Fort Bend. This is an open seat and I'm not sure who would run here. But this is a 60 percent white district and McCain got 58 percent here, so a republican would do fine here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 25, 2010, 08:22:50 PM
()

Here is a zoomed out view of the entire state.

The only districts I haven't mentioned yet are District 13 and 28.

District 13 is in silver. This takes in the northwest area of the state and the entire panhandle. This district is the type of Texas that people think of in the movies: cotton fields, oil rigs, small town football, guns, cowboys, chili cook-offs etc. This district is 69 percent white. This district could easily be the most republican leaning in the country with McCain getting 76 percent here, so Thornberry is fine here. But interestingly enough this is a fairly new phenomenon as Jimmy Carter easily won at least half of the counties in this district in 1976.

District 28 is in purple this takes in most of the Rio Grande Valley and could easily be the largest geographical district in the continental U.S. I thought it was big enough that it wouldn't have to go very far north, but unfortunately I had to take in some leftover cracker counties/precincts in District 19, that are overwhelmingly GOP. This district is 73 percent hispanic, 24 percent white, 1 percent black, 1 percent Asian, 1 percent Other. Obama got 52 percent here. This is Henry Cuellar's district, but he may have to go up against Canseco, depending where Canseco lives. This district should become more democratic by the end of the decade as many hispanics in this district reach voting age.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 26, 2010, 05:47:54 AM
My gut tells me that the Houston area is going to remain the same
Same here.
Quote
Dallas is rather simple in comparison - the new Hispanic district can be drawn out of 24 and 32 and everyone will be happy.
Jim thought a map keeping Jackson-Lee the only Democrat was possible, IIRC.

But how good of an argument is to say that Blacks need two opportunity districts?
The thing is that Al Green will be safe in a 45% Hispanic, 30% Black type district - but it would be Hispanic opportunity when open.
Quote
I am guessing Austin Hispanics get put into a district with South Texas, though the courts frowned upon that last time, right?
Technically not, in practice yes - the district struck down was another one, but the remedy chosen made it very very clear what the court actually thought of that monstrosity. (Of course, the district was represented by Lloyd Doggett during the two years that it existed.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 26, 2010, 02:12:44 PM
Quote
I am guessing Austin Hispanics get put into a district with South Texas, though the courts frowned upon that last time, right?
Technically not, in practice yes - the district struck down was another one, but the remedy chosen made it very very clear what the court actually thought of that monstrosity. (Of course, the district was represented by Lloyd Doggett during the two years that it existed.)

Which is why the Texas GOP will probably lump the Austin Hispanics in with the San Antonio Hispanics and split the rest of the white Dem areas in Austin among GOP districts.  Charlie Gonzalez's CD has to expand anyway, and I don't know how much more GOP suburbs he would want.  Plus, as we noted this year, a second San Antonio Hispanic district becomes highly questionable as Dem unless you push it up to Austin (or push it down to the border - which the courts didn't like).  There just simply aren't enough Hispanic Dem precincts.

Also, one of the new districts *has* to be placed within the Austin and San Antonio suburbs, which makes this solution have even more validity.  You move the border portions of TX-23 into TX-28 and the white Republican portions of TX-25 are combined with Corpus Christi to create a new TX-25 for Farenthold.  TX-15 and TX-27 become true border districts, except that you design the more northern of the two to be marginal enough for the party switcher.

Or at least that's how I would do it upon first glance.

As for Houston, I can definitely see the option of packing the blacks and creating another Hispanic opportunity seat that might, in fact, be pretty marginal.  That may well be done.

In Dallas, creating the Hispanic opportunity seat is probably the best idea.  Otherwise, you start knocking your McCain margins down to below 55% in more than one of those Dallas seats.

I'm being nice and creating a 25-11 map (presently 23-9) with a chance for the party switcher to make it 26-10.  Don't underestimate the GOP trying for 26-10 or even 27-9, though.  It can be done, but it's just more challenging and risks court challenges, of course.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 27, 2010, 02:37:55 AM
As for Houston, I can definitely see the option of packing the blacks and creating another Hispanic opportunity seat that might, in fact, be pretty marginal.  That may well be done.

In Dallas, creating the Hispanic opportunity seat is probably the best idea.  Otherwise, you start knocking your McCain margins down to below 55% in more than one of those Dallas seats.

I'm being nice and creating a 25-11 map (presently 23-9) with a chance for the party switcher to make it 26-10.  Don't underestimate the GOP trying for 26-10 or even 27-9, though.  It can be done, but it's just more challenging and risks court challenges, of course.
Based on the 2009 ACS, the states population is divided like this based on share of 36 districts.

CD 10, 17, and 23 were split between two regions.

CD 10: 50% Houston (Austin County east), 50% Central
CD 17: 64% Central (McLennan south), 36% DFW
CD 23: 62% Central (Bexar), 38% South

Houston 9.63 (Currently 8.50, including 50% of CD 10)
DFW 11.84 (Currently 10.36, including 36% of CD 17 plus CD 1)
Central 6.77 (Currently 5.76, including 64% of CD 17, 50% of CD 10, and 62% of CD 23)
West 2.95 (Currently 3)
South 4.82 (Currently 4.38, including 38% of CD 23)

We don't have to do much in West Texas other than unkinking the boundaries and picking up 35,000 people somewhere.

In South Texas, the population isn't really in the right place to promote the non-Bexar part of CD 23 to its own district, so instead that area is added to CD 28.  We then create a new district from the northern parts of CD 15, CD 27, and CD 28.  We designate this district as CD 27, which is a Coastal Bend district and should probably also inlcude Victoria and surrounding areas, so we shift about 0.18 of a district from the Houston area.  The southern part of CD 27 is designated CD 33, and includes portions of Hidalgo County, CD 15 is shifted westward along the Rio Grande (CD 28 can give up its portion of Hidalgo, because it has gained Eagle Pass, Del Rio, and the Trans Pecos from CD 23)

So that makes it 23:10, with a competitive Coastal Bend CD 27.

In the Houston area, the excess of 0.45 (after the shift of Victoria to the Southern area) is about equivalent to its 1/2 of CD 10.  But instead of continuing this as an inner metro-district, we get population from Montgomery and Fort Bend, and perhaps the rural western parts of CD 14.  This 1/2 district will be added to CD 17 - see below.  CD 10 gets converted into a new district 34 with its core in NW Harris County.

Elsewhere, Jefferson gets shifted to CD 8, in exchange for some areas in Montgomery.  CD 2 also picks up some excess from CD 9, 18, and 29, which collectively have only 88K extra to give up.   CD 29 is short -13K, so we add the most Hispanic areas of CD 9 and 18 that are adjacent to CD 29.  The area that gets shifted to CD 2 is in the IAH area, which will make it look less like CD 18 is wrapping around CD 29 in north Houston.  Elsewhere we shift population towards the west to help create CD 34 and provide new population for CD 17.

That makes it 24:10

In the DFW area, CD 35 is created in the northern suburbs.  There is sufficient excess population in CD 3, 4, 12, and 26 for this. 

The northern part of CD 17 becomes CD 36 and adds in parts of CD 6, 24, 30, 5, and 1 (actually, much of it comes from CD 6, with areas in the other districts moving into CD 6.   We also need to add a little bit to the DFW area, so we pick off the northern tip of CD 31, and perhaps additional parts of CD 17 such as Madison, Robertson, and Limestone.  CD 36 might take over the southern tail of CD 6.   CD 6 could pick up Grand Prairie, etc.  CD 32 is short a bit, which it picks up from CD 30.

That makes is 36:10 with CD 32 becoming more competitive.

In Central Texas, you have to bulk up the remaining parts of CD 10 and CD 23.   CD 23 gets its population mainly from CD 21 and the small excess from CD 20.  CD 21 becomes very much a San Antonio-Austin district.  San Antonio really doesn't have enough population for 3 districts.   CD 25 withdraws behind the Armadillo Curtain.   CD 31 takes McLennan county from CD 17, and gives up parts of Williamson County to CD 10 (so CD 31 would become Georgetown, Killeen, Temple, Waco), while CD 10 is more Austin-Round Rock.

The southern part of CD 17 around Bryan-College Station gets the parts of CD 10 and 25 to the east of Austin, in exchange for giving up McLennan, and then adds in portions of the extreme northern and western parts of the Houston area.  It in effect becomes the inter-regional district, bur rather than going from Harris to Travis, it is centered on Bryan-College Station and edges into the suburban areas.

So you have CD 26:10 with CD 23, 27, and 32 being competitive seats.

CD 4 and CD 8 become a bit more pure East Texas, CD 4 is +130K because of growth in Collins and Rockwall which it shed.  I suppose it keeps Rockwall for now.  CD 2 8 picks up Jefferson which has lost enough population that it can be outvoted by areas to the north, and it will still include parts of Montgomery.

CD 31 now becomes a Waco-Temple-Killeen district stretching into the northern part of Austin.  You have a district based in Bryan-College Station, and Corpus Christi-Waco.  You have 4 border districts which will no longer be represented from San Antonio or Corpus Christi.  In the west, you have a better separation into: Amarillo-Wichita Falls, Lubbock-Abilene, and Midland-Odessa-San Angelo-Hill Country districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on December 27, 2010, 11:03:29 AM
Here's my latest attempt at the Hispanic districts in the south:

()

()

In reading the Supreme Court decision, it seems like their beef was that a) the voting age population of Hispanics wasn't enough in TX-23, and b) there was too much of a geographic stretch to go from Austin to Laredo in TX-25.  What I conclude is that 65% Hispanic is enough to satisfy condition a (as that's roughly what the court-drawn TX-23 had), and that if you confine yourself to south Texas, you'll satisfy condition b.  I couldn't find any section in which the court added up votes and said that these Hispanics are too Republican, or anything like that. 

If that's right, then my lines will pass muster.  Canseco's TX-23 (in brown) is 65% Hispanic, 51-48 McCain (previously 51-48 Obama).  I dropped the rural counties in the far west - they can be added to the Midland/Odessa district - so this is less sprawling than it was before (albeit only slightly).  Farenthold's TX-27 (in green) is 65% Hispanic, 50-49 McCain (53-46 Obama previously).

After that it's simple.   Dem districts only in El Paso, San Antonio, Austin, 3 in Houston, and then 1 or 2 in Dallas - I've been able to draw just one and have all the other districts safe for the GOP but if the DoJ insists then draw two.  You have to be a bit careful with the districts in the Austin suburbs (you probably want to split Williamson in case it continues to trend blue) but otherwise almost anything will work once you pack the urban districts. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 27, 2010, 03:54:55 PM
based on my map here is the delegation of the 113th congress

DISTRICT 1 Louie Gohmert R-Tyler
DISTRICT 2 Allan Ritter R-Nederland
DISTRICT 3 Sam Johnson R-Plano
DISTRICT 4 Ralph Hall R-Rockwall
DISTRICT 5 Royce West D-Dallas
DISTRICT 6 Joe Barton R-Ennis
DISTRICT 7 John Culberson R-Houston
DISTRICT 8 Kevin Brady R-Woodlands
DISTRICT 9 Al Green D-Houston
DISTRICT 10 Lloyd Doggett D-Austin
DISTRICT 11 Jim Keffer R-Eastland
DISTRICT 12 Kay Granger R-Fort Worth
DISTRICT 13 Mac Thornberry R-Clarendon
DISTRICT 14 Ron Paul R-Lake Jackson
DISTRICT 15 Ruben Hinojosa D-Mercedes
DISTRICT 16 Silvestre Reyes D-El Paso
DISTRICT 17 Larry Taylor R-Friendswood
DISTRICT 18 Sheila Jackson Lee D-Houston
DISTRICT 19 Mike Conaway R-Midland
DISTRICT 20 Charlie Gonzales D-Houston
DISTRICT 21 Lamar Smith R-San Antonio
DISTRICT 22 Pete Olson R-Sugarland
DISTRICT 23 Harvey Hilderbran R-Kerrville
DISTRICT 24 Wendy Davis D-Fort Worth
DISTRICT 25 Bob Deuell R-Greenville
DISTRICT 26 Michael Burgess R-Lewisville
DISTRICT 27 Eddie Lucio Jr R-Brownsville
DISTRICT 28 Henry Cuellar D-Laredo
DISTRICT 29 Gene Green D-Houston
DISTRICT 30 Eddie Bernice Johnson D-Dallas
DISTRICT 31 John Carter R-Round Rock
DISTRICT 32 Pete Sessions R-Dallas
DISTRICT 33 Chris Harris R-Arlington
DISTRICT 34 Mike Jackson R-Pasadena
DISTRICT 35 Dan Patrick R-Houston
DISTRICT 36 Jeff Wentworth D-San Antonio

24 Republicans 12 Democrats.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 27, 2010, 07:52:37 PM
In my first try (up in a couple of days when I get the numbers exactly right), I have managed to create the Hispanic-majority CD from Austin to San Antonio (not that hard really), while completely f-ing the Austin white students many times over (and from strange angles too), and ensuring no return of Chet Edwards or older time Dems.  The Corpus Christi seat may need a little work, but all border seats have been maintained, as per VRA, even though the new TX-27 is designed as a border seat to give the party switcher a chance..

This is my nice map - The Texas GOP could well be meaner in reality.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on December 27, 2010, 08:16:29 PM
In my first try (up in a couple of days when I get the numbers exactly right), I have managed to create the Hispanic-majority CD from Austin to San Antonio (not that hard really), while completely f-ing the Austin white students many times over (and from strange angles too), and ensuring no return of Chet Edwards or older time Dems.  The Corpus Christi seat may need a little work, but all border seats have been maintained, as per VRA, even though the new TX-27 is designed as a border seat to give the party switcher a chance..

This is my nice map - The Texas GOP could well be meaner in reality.

Do you plan to "publish" your map?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 27, 2010, 09:06:30 PM
In my first try (up in a couple of days when I get the numbers exactly right), I have managed to create the Hispanic-majority CD from Austin to San Antonio (not that hard really), while completely f-ing the Austin white students many times over (and from strange angles too), and ensuring no return of Chet Edwards or older time Dems.  The Corpus Christi seat may need a little work, but all border seats have been maintained, as per VRA, even though the new TX-27 is designed as a border seat to give the party switcher a chance..

This is my nice map - The Texas GOP could well be meaner in reality.

Do you plan to "publish" your map?

Yes, but I have to clean it up a bit first.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on December 27, 2010, 09:21:16 PM
In my first try (up in a couple of days when I get the numbers exactly right), I have managed to create the Hispanic-majority CD from Austin to San Antonio (not that hard really), while completely f-ing the Austin white students many times over (and from strange angles too), and ensuring no return of Chet Edwards or older time Dems.  The Corpus Christi seat may need a little work, but all border seats have been maintained, as per VRA, even though the new TX-27 is designed as a border seat to give the party switcher a chance..

This is my nice map - The Texas GOP could well be meaner in reality.

Do you plan to "publish" your map?

Yes, but I have to clean it up a bit first.

I just post sh*t drafts myself, and clean them up in "public," per the input of others, and as on ongoing work in progress (why or why do I make so many dumb mistakes?). I would  like to think it makes me seem more human to the Forum, as this fossil from another age, another era, does his own thing in his own odd way.  :)

Plus, I think it kind of interesting, to give others some sense of the roadblocks, and conundrums, that I face, as I try to effect my, well as my younger Dem brother told my a day or two ago, my execrable agenda for a Party as to which he is now rather quite confused, as to just why I have any allegiance, whatsoever.

But I know why. :P

And so it goes.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on December 29, 2010, 11:20:57 AM
In my first try (up in a couple of days when I get the numbers exactly right), I have managed to create the Hispanic-majority CD from Austin to San Antonio (not that hard really), while completely f-ing the Austin white students many times over (and from strange angles too), and ensuring no return of Chet Edwards or older time Dems.  The Corpus Christi seat may need a little work, but all border seats have been maintained, as per VRA, even though the new TX-27 is designed as a border seat to give the party switcher a chance..

This is my nice map - The Texas GOP could well be meaner in reality.

Do you plan to "publish" your map?

Yes, but I have to clean it up a bit first.

Sam, just as a note of caution, the population data is only accurate at the county level. Within counties, Dave Bradlee just assumes everything grew or shrank at the same rate since 2000. That is not such a big deal in relatively stagnant states like Wisconsin, but for a demographically dynamic state like Texas, that will tend to make your maps that take in the high population counties a piece of crap. Muon2 pointed this out to me.

And then there is Michigan, where the Detroit metro area has been shrinking. When the real numbers roll in, that might well help the Pubbies a bit from what one can do per Bradlee's software. I suspect the spots were there has been relative population loss are disproportionately Dem within Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 29, 2010, 11:38:55 AM
Round 2 of Delaymanderring doesn't seem all that difficult.

1. 1 new Dem district in Dallas
2. 1 new GOP district south of DFW.
3. 1 new GOP district in the  Houston suburbs (this comes out of Lloyd Doggett's 25th)
4. 1 new swingy (although lean GOP) district in South Texas

The trick is to I think run both CD-15 and CD-28 along the border only, both 70% Obama districts. CD-27 moves a bit north and becomes ~54% McCain. CD-23 runs all the way down to Brooks County, ~54% McCain, both are at 60% hispanic.

CD-35 comes in at the Southern Half of Bexar County, is majority white, and 54% McCain.

Outside of here you have 23 60% McCain districts and the 8 heavy Dem packed districts in Houston/Dallas/Austin/San Antonio/El Paso.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 11:48:51 AM
In my first try (up in a couple of days when I get the numbers exactly right), I have managed to create the Hispanic-majority CD from Austin to San Antonio (not that hard really), while completely f-ing the Austin white students many times over (and from strange angles too), and ensuring no return of Chet Edwards or older time Dems.  The Corpus Christi seat may need a little work, but all border seats have been maintained, as per VRA, even though the new TX-27 is designed as a border seat to give the party switcher a chance..

This is my nice map - The Texas GOP could well be meaner in reality.

Do you plan to "publish" your map?

Yes, but I have to clean it up a bit first.

Sam, just as a note of caution, the population data is only accurate at the county level. Within counties, Dave Bradlee just assumes everything grew or shrank at the same rate since 2000. That is not such a big deal in relatively stagnant states like Wisconsin, but for a demographically dynamic state like Texas, that will tend to make your maps that take in the high population counties a piece of crap. Muon2 pointed this out to me.

And then there is Michigan, where the Detroit metro area has been shrinking. When the real numbers roll in, that might well help the Pubbies a bit from what one can do per Bradlee's software. I suspect the spots were there has been relative population loss are disproportionately Dem within Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties.

I realize the software is not perfect, especially not in the big cities.  For example, errors abound in the internal precincts of Houston, as I see obvious black precincts in Houston where black and Hispanic and/or white and black numbers are screwed up.

I am sure that the growth rates of the areas within the major counties will undoubtedly benefit the GOP in the map, as most of the Dallas/San Antonio/Houston current minority areas have been losing population.

Consider this an attempt that will be clarified when we get good data.

Just FYI, krazen has really stumbled closer to the plan that will probably be used, as Dems will probably complain about the new TX-27 in my map.  To stop the complaining, I would point out that I am also pretty sure that I can put Cuellar and Hinojosa in the same district and create three McCain Hispanic 60% districts. (i.e. instead of 25-11 or 26-10, how about 27-9  :P)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 11:50:25 AM
Texas Gerrymander Attempt #1

Goals: 1) 25 seats of McCain 58% (57.50%) or better; 2) At least one competitive seat (D+5 PVI to R+5 PVI); 3) 9-10 safe Democratic seats; 4) 8 Hispanic majority-minority seats (60% Hispanic or higher, by my count, should get you to 50% VAP).

Major Concern: TX-25 is 46% white, 46% Hispanic and might be viewed as Hispanic vote dilution.

Argument: I can f-ck with you much worse, as in, I'm pretty sure I can put Cuellar and Hinojosa in the same district and create three highly marginal border CDs (definitely two with McCain 53%-55%) that meet all specifications.

Note: Full views of all maps can be found in my folder.  The full view of Texas is cut off a bit at the top.  Did not include CD numbering until later pictures.

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 11:58:33 AM
()

TX-1 (Gohmert's Lair)
Incumbent Home: Tyler (Smith County)
Voting: McCain 68% (69%), Obama 31% (31%)
Race: 70% White, 20% Black, 8% Hispanic, 1% Asian
Comment: Mostly unchanged from previous iteration.  Lufkin is taken out and replaced with a bit of Texarkana and some rural east Texas.

()

TX-2 (Lampson's Nightmare)
Incumbent Home: Humble (Harris County)
Voting: McCain 62% (60%), Obama 37% (40%)
Race: White 69%, Black 14%, Hispanic 12%, Asian 4%
Comment: Similar to the present TX-2, except Kingwood is put in TX-22 and Port Arthur is put into TX-8 (thus separating Port Arthur and Beaumont).  I'm pretty sure Poe's home is in the district - Humble is separate from Kingwood - but change can be made easily if this is a problem.  In exchange, Poe gets northern parts of Liberty, adds Harbin County, and gets a nice (more) rural slice of Montgomery which will probably gain GOP constituents over time.

()

TX-3 (How I Hate Dallas County, Texas)
Incumbent Home: Plano (Collin County)
Voting: McCain 62% (57%), Obama 37% (42%)
Race: 78% White, 9% Hispanic, 8% Asian, 5% Black
Comment: Sam Johnson's CD extricates itself from the older Dallas suburbs to go further north in Collin County, into Grayson County (Sherman and Denison) to the TX-OK border, thereby gaining Republican voters.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 12:30:59 PM
()

TX-4 (Of Memories Past)
Incumbent Home: Rockwell (Rockwell County)
Voting: McCain 70% (69%), Obama 29% (30%)
Race: White 78%, Black 11%, Hispanic 9%, Asian 2%
Comment: In the olden days of Texas politics, no Republican would ever draw this type of CD.  It's got too many rural parts, leaving room for Dems to come in and snatch the thing up.  Now, it will be the most McCain CD in Texas.  Hall's new seat drops all of the Collin County suburbs, part of Grayson County and some of Texarkana to go down south, picking up parts of former TX-5 and TX-6, as well as half of Lufkin (including the black parts).

()

()

TX-5 (Hensarling's Haunt)
Incumbent Home: Dallas (Dallas County)
Voting: McCain 61% (63%), Obama 38% (36%)
Race: White 70%, Hispanic 15%, Black 10%, Asian 4%
Comment: The ugliness of this CD is because I can't remember whether Hensarling lives in Mesquite or in White Rock Lake, and because of the necessities for the new Hispanic majority-minority district.  The CD has also been tightened up a bit, removing all of the territory to the South, removing a lot of the territory to the East, and taking in some of Joe Barton's Dallas suburbs.

()

TX-6 (Best Lunch Ever Was in Ennis, Texas - It Was Also the Scariest)
Incumbent Home: Ennis (Ellis County)
Voting: McCain 61% (60%), Obama 38% (40%)
Race: White 70%, Black 14%, Hispanic 13%, Asian 3%
Comment: Similar to the present TX-6, except some Fort Worth suburbs are taken away.  To compensate that, the CD moves South and adds half of Lufkin, as well as Huntsville (Walker County) and even half of Grimes County!  Truly an I-45 CD now.  


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 01:10:27 PM
()

TX-7 (Rich Houstonians Still Vote Republican)
Incumbent Home: Houston (Harris County)
Voting: McCain 59% (58.54% exact) (58%), Obama 41% (41%)
Race: White 61%, Hispanic 24%, Asian 8%, Black 6%
Comment: Very careful precinct picking has only pushed the CD up 1% in McCain voting.  Because of the tricks that are necessary in the rest of the state (i.e. Austin), the easiest thing is to leave this CD the way it presently is, which is basically what this gerrymander does.  R+13 should be enough, anyway, even as things brown a bit.  I believe the incumbent lives in the rich suburbs south of I-10.

()

TX-8 (Why Waste Montgomery County on One Guy)
Incumbent Home: The Woodlands (Montgomery County)
Voting: McCain 68% (74%), Obama 31% (26%)
Race: White 74%, Black 12%, Hispanic 12%, Asian 3%
Comment: In case, you haven't noticed, I divided fast-growing GOP Montgomery County into three (anticipating potential future movements).  Besides, who wants to waste all those votes on Brady?  Anyway, this CD stretches around to gather in black (err.. Dem) strongholds of Port Arthur, Galveston and part of Texas City, in exchange for removing Huntsville and some lesser rural east Texas counties.

()

TX-9 (The Lesser Al Green)
Incumbent Home: Houston - Alief (Harris County)
Voting: Obama 77% (77%), McCain 22% (23%)
Race: Black 38%, Hispanic 33%, White 17%, Asian 12%, Other 1%
Comment: Much as TX-7, this CD stays pretty much the same, only to expand a little.  Trying to design a second Hispanic-majority CD in Houston is next to impossible unless you want to endanger a Dem seat and/or a GOP seat (especially under the above guidelines), so I just gave up trying.  It's almost impossible to get two Hispanic-majority CDs anyway.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 01:15:27 PM
()

TX-10 (McCaul's Maul)
Incumbent Home: Austin (Travis County)
Voting: McCain 58% (57.57% exact) (55%), Obama 41% (44%)
Race: White 71%, Hispanic 15%, Asian 7%, Black 7%
Comment: Since McCaul lives in Austin, this CD must extend to Austin.  Note that new TX-34 basically does the same thing, so if he lives in TX-34 and not TX-10, he can run there instead (margin is the same).  I have lessened the Austin impact in TX-10 by using TX-34 and doing the evil manuever below (The Dangling Arm of Death).  Some Harris County suburbs are removed, as is Austin and Waller, to TX-34, in exchange for a few hyper-GOP, insanely fast-growing Montgomery County precincts.

()

()

TX-11 (The Dangling Arm of Death)
Incumbent Home: Midland (Midland County)
Voting: McCain 61% (74%), Obama 38% (26%)
Race: White 65%, Hispanic 27%, Black 4%, Asian 3%
Comment: It is nothing but pure evil.  It begins, a much narrower strip than before, which takes up Midland, Odessa, Big Spring and San Angelo, until we reach Burnet County, where the arm stretches out, reaching into the heart of Austin, and castrating all the impotent students and government workers of a chance to pick someone who represents them.  The Bush-God from Midland strikes again against those who fail to worship him.

()

TX-12 (Granger's Getaway)
Incumbent Home: Fort Worth (Tarrant County)
Voting: McCain 62% (63%), Obama 38% (36%)
Race: White 71%, Hispanic 17%, Black 9%, Asian 3%
Comment: Granger trades some hyper-GOP precincts in North Fort Worth to new TX-36 for some rural, west of Fort Worth, counties.  No real change in voting patterns.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 01:18:33 PM
()

()

TX-13 (The Dangling Arm of Death - The Sequel)
Incumbent Home: Clarendon (Donley County)
Voting: McCain 73% (77%), Obama 26% (23%)
Race: White 72%, Hispanic 19%, Black 6%, Asian 3%
Comment: Although centered around Amarillo and Wichita Falls, this west Texas strip is also narrower than before, letting new TX-36 take over its dormant rural areas.  Its little Dangling Arm of Death reaches into Denton this time to castrate all those annoying, impotent University of North Texas students.

()

TX-14 (Ron Paul Land)
Incumbent Home: Surfside (Brazoria County)
Voting: McCain 63% (66%), Obama 37% (33%)
Race: White 65%, Hispanic 20%, Black 10%, Asian 4%
Comment: With the recasting of TX-25 as a Coastal Bend CD, Ron Paul Land gets a rethink.  This version compresses it to most of Brazoria County, Galveston County (minus Galveston), Anahuac County (really the "Deep South") and Harris County "suburbs" along Galveston Bay.  Safely Republican, but less McCain than before.

()

TX-15 (A Real South Texas "Border" CD For Once)
Incumbent Home: Mercedes (Hidalgo County)
Voting: Obama 75% (60%), McCain 25% (40%)
Race: Hispanic 92%, White 7%, Asian 1%
Comment: In the rather conscious attempt to create a lean GOP, open TX-27 (which it is), I put every solidly Dem precinct in Hinojosa's CD along the border.  This means the CD basically rides the border from Brownsville to McAllen, taking in every rural precinct possible (as these are *always* more Democratic), except for Edinburg, so as to give an opportunity for the party-switcher.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 01:21:39 PM
()

TX-16 (El Paso Is Ugly, But Juarez Is a Hellhole)
Incumbent Home: El Paso (El Paso County)
Voting: Obama 65% (66%), McCain 34% (34%)
Race: Hispanic 76%, White 18%, Black 3%, Asian 2%, Other 1%
Comment:Reyes' CD is basically unchanged from before, except that a few precincts have been moved to TX-28 because of population growth greater than the baseline.

()

TX-17 (Edwards Ain't Coming Back Man)
Incumbent Home: Bryan (Brazos County)
Voting: McCain 64% (67%), Obama 35% (32%)
Race: White 68%, Black 14%, Hispanic 13%, Asian 4%
Comment: I take away some of Flores' Dallas suburbs and move the district slightly further East while removing the Grimes County, Madisonville, east Brenham parts.  In its place, I add Edwards' old stomping ground - Fort Hood and Killeen.  So you might ask why I want Edwards back?  For the answer, see TX-19's Dangling Arm of Death into Waco's annoying center of blacks and college students that eliminates any future Edwards return...  :)

()

()

TX-18 (Sheila Jackson Lee is One Annoying B*tch)
Incumbent Home: Houston (Harris County)
Voting: Obama 82% (77%), McCain 17% (22%)
Race: Black 49%, Hispanic 26%, White 16%, Asian 5%, Other 1%
Comment: Just so the d*mn woman doesn't get a bigger head than she already has, I'm leaving her at 49% blacks, even though I could well make it 50%.  The CD is basically the same as before, though the precincts are more carefully cut apart (i.e. why is Garden Oaks in her CD now? - those white precincts with some Hispanic browning should be in TX-7)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 01:22:04 PM
Other half later today.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 29, 2010, 01:45:16 PM

TX-13 (The Dangling Arm of Death - The Sequel)
I prefer "The Daughter of the Dangling Arm of Death".


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 29, 2010, 03:31:16 PM
Sam I require you to do the following:

5 Districts entirely within Harris County
3 Districts entirely within Dallas County
2 Districts entirely within Tarrant County
2 Districts entirely within Bexar County
1 District Entirely within Travis County
1 District Entirely Within Collin County
1 District Entirely within El Paso County
1 District Entirely within Hidalgo County



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 06:00:18 PM
Basically, by playing around with South Texas and West Texas, I managed to create a map which:

1) Holds 24 CDs at 57.50% McCain of higher.
2) Creates 3 safe Dem seats in Houston, 2 in Dallas and 2 in San Antonio/Austin (4 being Hispanic majority-minority CDs)
3) Creates a new TX-15 along the border where Cuellar and Hinojosa must face each other in a primary.
4) Creates a new TX-25 along Corpus Christi with 60% Hispanic and 51% McCain for Farenthold.
5) Creates a new TX-27 with an Edinburg center for the party switcher with 66% Hispanic and 52% McCain.
6) Creates a new TX-28 in west Texas with 64% Hispanic and 53% McCain.

I could even play around and probably avoid the minority-majority CD in Dallas, but I think that may be going too far.  The west Texas CD may well be snatched up by Pete Gallego - I understand that danger.

The map may also be illegal in other ways - it's your choose.  More tonight or tomorrow.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 29, 2010, 08:00:39 PM
Basically, by playing around with South Texas and West Texas, I managed to create a map which:

1) Holds 24 CDs at 57.50% McCain of higher.
2) Creates 3 safe Dem seats in Houston, 2 in Dallas and 2 in San Antonio/Austin (4 being Hispanic majority-minority CDs)
3) Creates a new TX-15 along the border where Cuellar and Hinojosa must face each other in a primary.
4) Creates a new TX-25 along Corpus Christi with 60% Hispanic and 51% McCain for Farenthold.
5) Creates a new TX-27 with an Edinburg center for the party switcher with 66% Hispanic and 52% McCain.
6) Creates a new TX-28 in west Texas with 64% Hispanic and 53% McCain.

I could even play around and probably avoid the minority-majority CD in Dallas, but I think that may be going too far.  The west Texas CD may well be snatched up by Pete Gallego - I understand that danger.

The map may also be illegal in other ways - it's your choose.  More tonight or tomorrow.

I'll post the rest of the *nice* map with comments later, as well as the evil one, but as I look over both maps, the nice one is too conciliatory (even though new TX-25 is not minority-majority Hispanic and really safe R) and I suspect this one is probably too stretched.  It's just nearly impossible to get 27-9 if you concede a Dallas Hispanic majority-minority district, and logic says that this is a wise move imo.

26-10 can certainly be done, however, with the creation of the extra Hispanic minority-majority CD as mentioned above, and I can probably get the McCain % up to 54.50% in the two South Texas CDs and stick with the 57.50% in the other 24 CDs. 

Lastly, the combination of Cuellar with Hinojosa, btw, is a move of brilliance, if I may say so.  The map works even better with that bit of deviousness.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: CatoMinor on December 29, 2010, 08:33:36 PM
Sam, I demand you fix you map and move me back into Texas-08 >:( (East Montgomery County)

and Put Galveston back in Paul's district >:(


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 31, 2010, 08:27:07 AM
Sam, I demand you post the remainder of this particular plan this year. (And no, while it arguably "could be worse", this is probably about as evil as you can get without being shot down by the courts. Actually, that 90-odd% Hispanic district better not border any R-leaning seat if it wants to withstand court challenge.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 31, 2010, 09:15:04 AM
Sam, I demand you post the remainder of this particular plan this year. (And no, while it arguably "could be worse", this is probably about as evil as you can get without being shot down by the courts. Actually, that 90-odd% Hispanic district better not border any R-leaning seat if it wants to withstand court challenge.)

Sure - I get caught up doing other things sometimes.  I'll also post the 27-9 attempt within Map #1.  It's ugly, but I like it.

I'm also working on a second map, which is a bit of a rethink on the Texas gerrymander (not that great of one - since Austin still has to be divided into a million parts) and which makes TX-25 into Hispanic minority-majority.  Or very, very close - I'm only aiming for 58.50% Hispanic here, which should be enough for 50%+1 VAP in most of Texas.

The benefit to this second map is that it *looks* a whole lot better - districts are less fajita-strip and county divides are much less common.  And it should be 25-11 safe, with 26-10 probable, unless Farenthold is a real incompetent - and another Republican would probably have a good chance in this CD.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 31, 2010, 07:46:16 PM
here is my alternative DFW Metroplex. These districts are based on state legislature districts where there are usually 3 or 4 assembly districts embedded within each district, so if one of the legislators want to run for there congress, they can keep their original constituency

()
this is the entire area zoomed out as a whole

()
This is Tarrant County. The light green district in the northern part is District 33. This is some wealthy areas we are dealing with like Southlake Grapevine Euless Bedford Richland Hills Wautauga River Oaks etc. This district is 78 percent white and McCain got 65 percent here. This is an open seat.

The light blue district in the central part of the country is District 32. This takes in the urban areas of Fort Worth. This district is diverse at 47 percent white, 26 percent hispanic, 21 percent black, 5 percent Asian, 1 percent Other. Obama got 56 percent here. This too is an open seat. Lon Burnam may run here.

The dark purplish district in western Tarrant county is District 12. It also takes the surrounding counties as shown above. It goes counterclockwise in taking in some rural areas surrounding Tarrant County. Kay Granger is even safer here. This district is 81 percent white and McCain got 69 percent here.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on December 31, 2010, 08:28:51 PM
()
This is Dallas County. The lime green district (District 30) is basically all of South Dallas and includes Fair Park as well as some southern suburbs like DeSoto, Lancaster, Duncanville. This district is 45 percent black, 29 percent hispanic, 24 percent white, and 2 percent Asian. Obama got 81 percent here. This is a safe dem district obviously

The cerulean district in western Dallas County is District 24 and also takes in some parts of Tarrant County. This district is the most hispanic in the metroplex at 42 percent hispanic. Whites are 40 percent, blacks are 11 percent, and Asians are 7 percent. This looks somewhat similar to Martin Frost's old district, but it also goes north into Coppell, making it less democratic. Obama got 53 percent here. Kenny Marchant is the incumbent and he could keep this seat but he needs to tweak his views to more of a Rockefeller type Republican.

The yellow district is District 5 and takes in Mesquite, the Park Cities, Downtown Dallas, parts of North Dallas as well as parts of Carrollton. Jeb Hensarling would face Pete Sessions in a primary here most likely. This district is 62 percent white and McCain got 52 percent here

()
This here is the northern suburbs. The district in orange is District 3 it takes in the oldest parts of Plano (Jerry Madden's district) as well as Richardson, Garland, parts of North Dallas, Sachse, Rowlett. This district is 60 percent white and McCain got 54 percent here. Safe Republican as long as Johnson is here, lean republican if he retires.

District in light purple (CD 26) takes in most of Plano, as well as a great deal of Denton County like Lewisville, Lake Dallas, Denton, parts of Flower Mound. Michael Burgess would represent this district and at 74 percent white and McCain getting 59 percent here, a republican is safe.

District in red (CD 4) is the poster child of this argument: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=129666.0. 83 percent white, 67 percent McCain, enough said. Ralph Hall is the incumbent here, but he will retire eventually, so Jodie Laubenberg or Ken Paxton may run here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 01:24:06 AM
()

TX-19 (The Dangling Arm of Death - This Time It's Personal)
Incumbent Home: Lubbock (Lubbock County)
Voting: McCain 69% (72%), Obama 30% (29%)
Race: White 65%, Hispanic 24%, Black 9%, Asian 2%
Comment: TX-19 still takes in Lubbock and Abilene, but the CD is narrowed to a nice little strip by removing a number of pointless West Texas rural counties.  This alteration allows its "dangling arm of death" to invalidate all those minority Democratic precincts in Waco and neuter all those annoying Baylor students.

()

TX-20 (Gonzalez - Past and Present)
Incumbent Home: San Antonio (Bexar County)
Voting: Obama 62% (63%), McCain 37% (36%)
Race: Hispanic 66%, White 24%, Black 8%, Asian 2%
Comment: Gonzalez's CD moves outward to take in outer Bexar precincts, while ceding a certain amount of inner Bexar precincts to the largely revamped TX-23.

()

TX-21 (Bexar County Whites Have GOP Tattooed On Their Foreheads)
Incumbent Home: San Antonio (Bexar County)
Voting: McCain 59% (59.10% exact) (58%), Obama 40% (41%)
Race: White 67%, Hispanic 25%, Black 4%, Asian 3%
Comment: My redesign of the TX-21 removes the heart of the German Hill Country and this district's former piece of Austin to give to Canseco in new TX-35.  Since the rest of this CD is growing quite fast, all I need to do is add Hays County to create a nice compact district (for once) that is slightly more Republican than the one before.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 01:45:08 AM
()

TX-22 (Lampson's Temporary Abode)
Incumbent Home: Sugar Land (Fort Bend County)
Voting: McCain 61% (58%), Obama 38% (41%)
Race: White 61%, Hispanic 21%, Asian 10%, Black 8%
Comment: This design exchanges a certain amount of Fort Bend County (not Olson's home in Sugar Land, naturally) for some fast-growing and rather Republican suburbs in NE Harris County, including the already-grown Kingwood area.  This strengthens the Republican lean of the CD already present in the current model.  It also makes the new TX-22 look a bit like Japan...

()

()

()

TX-23 (A Real Hispanic Democratic District This Time)
Incumbent Home: None (pretty sure Doggett doesn't live here)
Voting: Obama 62% (51%), McCain 37% (48%)
Race: Hispanic 60% (59.75% exact), White 24%, Black 13%, Asian 2%
Comment: Another Japan-looking-like snake CD, but any Austin-San Antonio Hispanic majority-minority CD will have to look something like this in order to meet the required VAP.  This is the perfect CD for Ciro Rodriguez to make his return, as most of his old South Bexar stomping grounds remain intact.  Note that the black portions of Austin are found in this CD, whereas the black portions of San Antonio are moved to TX-20 (to create the required VAP number).

()

TX-24 (Another Boring Metroplex District Heads North)
Incumbent Home: Coppell (Dallas County)
Voting: McCain 61% (55%), Obama 39% (44%)
Race: White 72%, Hispanic 13%, Asian 8%, Black 7%
Comment: TX-24 is made considerably more Republican by the creation of TX-33 Hispanic minority-majority district in the middle of Dallas.  This iteration chooses to add further GOP precincts by creating a fajita strip heading northward along the eastern edge of suburbs in Denton County and by grabbing most of rural Cooke County in North Texas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 02:10:14 AM
()

TX-25 (Farenthold Will Survive Here)
Incumbent Home: Corpus Christi (Nueces County)
Voting: McCain 59% (59.18% exact) (40%), Obama 40% (59%)
Race: White 48%, Hispanic 44%, Black 6%, Asian 2%
Comment: Doggett's former TX-25 is completely refashioned, in this map, as a Corpus Christi-Victoria Coastal Bend CD.  Cameron County is removed and replaced by a number of white rural redneck counties to the north that are used to voting for nuts.  The complaint that will be made, naturally, is that there is dilution of Hispanic voters by not creating another Hispanic majority-minority CD in South Texas, which can be done.  The GOP can deal with this, but the result will certainly two, if not three highly marginal CDs.  I've done the three marginal CDs one in another version of the same map - and they are all McCain districts, but barely, and in South Texas, this will create a real problem, if history is any guide.  With the two CDs, I can probably get both up to 53%-54%, but that will be an issue nonetheless.  An interesting alternative will be provided in the second map, which I believe is a more solid 26-10 than this version, but removes the possibility of 27-9.

()

TX-26 (Burgess' Bulwark)
Incumbent Home: Flower Mound (Denton County)
Voting: McCain 61% (58%), Obama 38% (41%)
Race: White 74%, Hispanic 11%, Black 10%, Asian 6%
Comment: Most of Denton (both college students and Republicans) are removed from TX-26 to add a bigger slice of rich Fort Worth suburbs and poor black areas, including parts of TX-24.  Given the growth in this CD, its confines had to shrink a bit, regardless.

()

()

TX-27 (The Party-Switcher's Possibility)
Incumbent Home: None
Voting: Obama 50% (50.29% exact) (53%), Obama 49% (46%)
Race: Hispanic 68%, Hispanic 29%, Black 2%, Asian 1%
Comment: This marginal open seat is designed by the GOP either for the party-switcher in Edinburg (note how Edinburg and much of his House seat is nicely included here) or for a GOP official in Cameron County (which comprises most of this CD's population).  Along the border, precincts have been closely analyzed for their Republican-ness.  The rest of the CD includes most of present-day TX-15 except that Hinojosa in Mercedes is carefully drawn out of the CD.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 01, 2011, 07:52:10 AM
Revenant Ciro!


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 11:01:58 AM
()

TX-28 (Along the Border)
Incumbent Home: Laredo (Webb County)
Voting: Obama 65% (56%), McCain 34% (44%)
Race: Hispanic 86%, White 12%, Asian 1%, Black 1%
Comment: The basic change here is removing the German areas around Seguin and the other Hispanic areas around San Antonio in exchange for the long rural border area presently in TX-23.  This strengthens the Obama tilt of the CD.

()

()

TX-29 (Green is Not a Brown)
Incumbent Home: Houston (Harris County)
Voting: Obama 64% (62%), McCain 35% (38%)
Race: Hispanic 70%, White 18%, Black 9%, Asian 2%
Comment: TX-29 remains basically the same, except with some tightening here and there of the gerrymander and some addition of stronger Obama precincts.

()

()

TX-30 (The Part of Dallas You Don't Want to See)
Incumbent Home: Dallas (Dallas County)
Voting: Obama 78% (82%), Obama 22% (18%)
Race: Black 45%, White 30%, Hispanic 20%, Asian 5%
Comment: I have some fun here going north in a little "octopus tentacle" to pick up some minority precincts, as some of TX-30 has to be cut off in order in order to create new Hispanic minority-majority TX-33.  The other option is going west into Tarrant County, fyi.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 11:22:13 AM
()

TX-31 (Carter's Creation)
Incumbent Home: Round Rock (Williamson County)
Voting: McCain 59% (59.19% exact) (58%), Obama 39% (42%)
Race: White 73%, Hispanic 15%, Black 8%, Asian 3%
Comment: TX-31 basically remains the same, exchanging some stronger McCain precincts for weaker McCain precincts, in particular giving Killeen and Fort Hood back to TX-17.  Carter lives in Round Rock, the most Southern part of Williamson County, so maps almost have to keep Williamson County in one piece.

()

()

TX-32 (Reworking Sessions)
Incumbent Home: Dallas (Dallas County)
Voting: McCain 59% (58.95% exact) (53%), Obama 40% (46%)
Race: White 73%, Hispanic 15%, Black 8%, Asian 3%
Comment: The large Hispanic part of TX-32 is detached to create new TX-33 Hispanic minority-majority district.  In exchange, Sessions gets the Dallas portion of TX-3, the Collin County part of TX-4, and even stretches north to take in half of Grayson County from TX-4.  In other words, much like Johnson in TX-3, Sessions' CD is extended to take in newer line suburbs to protect against future demographic changes

()

TX-33 (Maybe Martin Frost Can Run Here)
Incumbent Home: None
Voting: Obama 66%, McCain 33%
Race: Hispanic 60% (59.97% exact), White 23%, Black 13%, Asian 3%
Comment: From the ruins of TX-24, TX-30 and TX-32 comes the new Hispanic CD in Dallas.  I picked my fine tooth comb through all the Metroplex precincts, and this is basically the only way it can be designed to get it around the 60% magic number, so don't go around thinking there are other possibilities...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 11:40:54 AM
()

TX-34 (Recreating Another McCaul Maul)
Incumbent Home: None
Voting: McCain 58% (57.96% exact), Obama 41%
Race: White 64%, Hispanic 22%, Black 10%, Asian 4%
Comment: Pushing TX-10 further north allows us to create its cousin, TX-34, which takes in west Harris County suburbs, Fort Bend suburbs from TX-22 and Brazoria County areas from TX-14 to balance its dangling arm into the Austin interior..

()

TX-35 (Forcing Hispanic GOPers to Represent GOP Whites Yet Again)
Incumbent Home: San Antonio (Bexar County)
Voting: McCain 58% (57.98%), Obama 41%
Race: White 69%, Hispanic 24%, Asian 3%, Black%
Comment: I'm pretty sure Canseco resides here - if I'm wrong, some alterations can be made without destroying the CD, so...  In short, TX-35 takes the center of German Hill Country and the Austin environs from Smith and attaches it onto TX-23's GOP part of Bexar County, and some rural GOP areas (Uvalde, Hondo and the boonies).

()

()

TX-36 (A Fourth West Texas District?)
Incumbent Home: None
Voting: McCain 64%, Obama 35%
Race: White 59%, Hispanic 28%, Black 10%, Asian 3%
Comment: This new TX-36 is a combination of rural west Texas counties dropped by TX-11, TX-13 and TX-19 and leftover Fort Worth and Denton suburbs from TX-12 and TX-26.  This will be a fair fight between rural interests and suburban interests as a decent bit of the Fort Worth areas (enough to matter in the population contest) are minority-based black areas that vote Democratic.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 11:41:34 AM
And later - something quite different...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 01, 2011, 01:48:20 PM
Sam, I think that your DFW minority districts are not as VRA-proof as the TX GOP might want. This provides more margin to correct for the VAP, and even citizen VAP if needed. This will be especially needed since this would go through the Obama DOJ. So, here's my bullet-proof minority districts for the Metroplex.

()

CD 30:
White 27%, Black 53%, Asian 3%, Hispanic 16%
Obama 79%, McCain 20%

CD 33:
White 21%, Black 9%, Asian 3%, Hispanic 66%
Obama 66%, McCain 33%


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on January 01, 2011, 04:53:25 PM
Yes, having now just looked at the question (because I was in a state of total confusion myself), apparently Justice Kennedy was vague in Bartlett v Strickland (did he mean to be vague, or was he just sloppy?), about whether the relevant minority class under the VRA was VAP or citizen VAP. His language just says VAP, but a later lower court opined in REYES v. CITY OF FARMERS BRANCH TEXAS (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1499114.html) that  given the context of the relevant phrase in Bartlett, and the fact that the issue of VAP versus citizen VAP was not before the Bartlett court, and  that the whole concept of voting means eligible to vote,  what Justice Kennedy really meant to say was citizen VAP, and not just VAP, and so ruled.

And since that lower court was the 5th Circuit, that holding is the governing authority for the moment for Texas, unless and until Justice Kennedy in a later case rules that no, when he wrote VAP, and did not include the qualifier "citizen," that was because he intended not to. It is all very odd, since the lower court in Bartlett which was appealed to SCOTUS, explicitly discussed the issue of citizen versus non-citizen, and explicitly ruled that the relevant number was citizen VAP, and one cannot not include the non citizen minority VAP in the count.

Fun stuff isn't it?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 05:32:12 PM
Sam, I think that your DFW minority districts are not as VRA-proof as the TX GOP might want. This provides more margin to correct for the VAP, and even citizen VAP if needed. This will be especially needed since this would go through the Obama DOJ. So, here's my bullet-proof minority districts for the Metroplex.

()

CD 30:
White 27%, Black 53%, Asian 3%, Hispanic 16%
Obama 79%, McCain 20%

CD 33:
White 21%, Black 9%, Asian 3%, Hispanic 66%
Obama 66%, McCain 33%

I don't think GOP would have any problem drawing those districts, even though they are *butt ugly* (to put it mildly).  I didn't do it, because, odd as it may sound, I'm aiming for something that looks a bit nicer.

Here's what I'm going to point out - Texas is really looking for fights with the Feds right now, and vice versa.  The reason why I'm drawing the maps that raise questions is because Texas lawmakers are almost certainly going to produce one based on their interpretation of LULAC v. Perry that comes as close to skirting the lines as they think possible.

In particular, they are going to read LULAC v. Perry as saying that 'so long as there is 50%+1 Latino citizen VAP, the first Gingles threshold requirement is not met, and, therefore, there is no Section 2 violation.'  TX-23, in that instance had 55% Latino population, 50% VAP and 46% citizen VAP.  TX-23 is probably going to be a tad lower on the citizen VAP than other parts of Texas, but if we have 59% to 60% Latino population, there will be 50%+1 citizen VAP.

And when the Obama Justice Dept. blocks this map through Section 5, they're going to argue the unconstitutionality of the Section 5, which the Court successfully ignored in Northwest Austin Municipal District No.1 v. Holder, but left quite a cautious tone on its continued viability (of course, Roberts does not speak for Kennedy, naturally)..

You'll see this game come to fruition in the next couple of maps I draw.

EDIT:  I see Torie's new post which suggests question between citizen VAP and regular VAP.  I am almost certain it is citizen VAP, just having read the ruling again before making the above post, but I am trying to show the number where 50%+1 citizen VAP is reached, at least along the border in Texas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 01, 2011, 07:07:45 PM
Yes, having now just looked at the question (because I was in a state of total confusion myself), apparently Justice Kennedy was vague in Bartlett v Strickland (did he mean to be vague, or was he just sloppy?), about whether the relevant minority class under the VRA was VAP or citizen VAP. His language just says VAP, but a later lower court opined in REYES v. CITY OF FARMERS BRANCH TEXAS (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1499114.html) that  given the context of the relevant phrase in Bartlett, and the fact that the issue of VAP versus citizen VAP was not before the Bartlett court, and  that the whole concept of voting means eligible to vote,  what Justice Kennedy really meant to say was citizen VAP, and not just VAP, and so ruled.

And since that lower court was the 5th Circuit, that holding is the governing authority for the moment for Texas, unless and until Justice Kennedy in a later case rules that no, when he wrote VAP, and did not include the qualifier "citizen," that was because he intended not to. It is all very odd, since the lower court in Bartlett which was appealed to SCOTUS, explicitly discussed the issue of citizen versus non-citizen, and explicitly ruled that the relevant number was citizen VAP, and one cannot not include the non citizen minority VAP in the count.

Fun stuff isn't it?

Especially since the 7th Circuit wasn't willing to use a standard like CVAP in Gonzalez v. City of Aurora (2008) (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1375584.html). They want to compare the approved map to a race neutral map to test for vote dilution. Clearly the two circuits differ in approach and it sets up an inevitable SCOTUS review after the 2011 redistricting IMHO. Many legal experts I've spoke to in the last year agree that the subject of VAP vs CVAP will need clarification by the high court.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 01, 2011, 07:48:05 PM
Similar to my effort in DFW, here's what I get for the Houston area. Here my goal was 60% for the Hispanic districts. I got close with the estimates and rough mapping of Dave's App. I'm confident that with block-level mapping 60% would be achievable. Definitely not pretty.

()

CD 9:
White 13%, Black 61%, Asian 5%, Hispanic 21%
Obama 86%, McCain 14%

CD 18:
White 22%, Black 14%, Asian 5%, Hispanic 58.2%
Obama 62%, McCain 37%

CD 29:
White 21%, Black 16%, Asian 4%, Hispanic 59.0%
Obama 69%, McCain 31%


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on January 01, 2011, 08:55:29 PM
Yes, having now just looked at the question (because I was in a state of total confusion myself), apparently Justice Kennedy was vague in Bartlett v Strickland (did he mean to be vague, or was he just sloppy?), about whether the relevant minority class under the VRA was VAP or citizen VAP. His language just says VAP, but a later lower court opined in REYES v. CITY OF FARMERS BRANCH TEXAS (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1499114.html) that  given the context of the relevant phrase in Bartlett, and the fact that the issue of VAP versus citizen VAP was not before the Bartlett court, and  that the whole concept of voting means eligible to vote,  what Justice Kennedy really meant to say was citizen VAP, and not just VAP, and so ruled.

And since that lower court was the 5th Circuit, that holding is the governing authority for the moment for Texas, unless and until Justice Kennedy in a later case rules that no, when he wrote VAP, and did not include the qualifier "citizen," that was because he intended not to. It is all very odd, since the lower court in Bartlett which was appealed to SCOTUS, explicitly discussed the issue of citizen versus non-citizen, and explicitly ruled that the relevant number was citizen VAP, and one cannot not include the non citizen minority VAP in the count.

Fun stuff isn't it?

Especially since the 7th Circuit wasn't willing to use a standard like CVAP in Gonzalez v. City of Aurora (2008) (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1375584.html). They want to compare the approved map to a race neutral map to test for vote dilution. Clearly the two circuits differ in approach and it sets up an inevitable SCOTUS review after the 2011 redistricting IMHO. Many legal experts I've spoke to in the last year agree that the subject of VAP vs CVAP will need clarification by the high court.

And of course, how do you count CVAP when it is not included in the census?  And just why would it seem reasonable that persons not eligible to vote, should be factored in as to whether those eligible to vote can elect someone of their choice? Those Hispanic eligible to vote would be getting a boost from those not eligible to vote to reach the 50% plus one threshold. Under that standard, why don't we count the Hispanic minors too? How are they different from VAP's who are as equally ineligible to vote?

And as to VAP's who are not CVAP's, do we count illegals too, or just legal residents with green cards who are not citizens? Why should illegals have some influence on who gets elected?  Just asking. Heck, if I were Hispanic, but all the rest of the Hispanics were illegals, in my community of interest, and the number of illegals were enough to get to 50% plus one, then I suppose as a practical matter, it should come down to whether someone of my choice can get elected. :P

The thing is at once ludicrous and a legal mess, and if something other than VAP is the standard, the courts will be saddled with a host of hack experts testifying trying to create inferential data, sometimes, particularly at the margins, out of something akin to thin air as we "decide" which names on the voting rolls seem "Hispanic" for CVAP purposes, and which not. I once knew a Cuban, who looked quite Hispanic, with the name of "Martin."  He would obviously not be counted as Hispanic on the voting rolls. And a fair number of surnames, could be either facially Hispanic or Anglo, not to mention having to deal with Italian and Portuguese surnames, which cross over into Spanish surnames.

SCOTUS has not distinguished itself on this one - at all. JMO of course.

Do you see how the legal advocacy mind works here?  :P


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on January 01, 2011, 09:20:26 PM
Indeed, it is a mess, and the culprit is the combination of (a) single-member districts with (b) representation for non-geographic minorities.

If you gave up (a), you could get (b) quite easily without any erose (as you like to put it) maps. For instance, STV is used in Northern Ireland for just the reason that the main social cleavage there doesn't correspond to a clear geographic segregation, and the same ought to apply to the southern US.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 01, 2011, 10:57:38 PM
We are in agreement here, Torie.  The Supreme Court decisions in the area of congressional appropriation in recent years generally suck royally.  No wonder is it that so many of the recent ones have been written by Kennedy.

Of course, I also think Reynolds v. Sims was wrongly decided, so maybe my opinion is a little out there.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 01, 2011, 11:25:43 PM
We are in agreement here, Torie.  The Supreme Court decisions in the area of congressional appropriation in recent years generally suck royally.  No wonder is it that so many of the recent ones have been written by Kennedy.

Of course, I also think Reynolds v. Sims was wrongly decided, so maybe my opinion is a little out there.

I was always a bit surprised that the Reynolds court didn't establish separate standards for upper and lower chambers for state legislatures. Clearly there is that distinction for the US Senate. They could have held that as long as one chamber was fairly apportioned, then the republican model applied to the states would work as well as the federal system was intended by the Constitution.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 02, 2011, 06:22:02 AM
I wouldn't worry about Sam's metro districts, what with the fact that not nearly all the non-Blacks / non-Mexicans are Anglo. Though who knows.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 02, 2011, 05:16:03 PM
Yes, having now just looked at the question (because I was in a state of total confusion myself), apparently Justice Kennedy was vague in Bartlett v Strickland (did he mean to be vague, or was he just sloppy?), about whether the relevant minority class under the VRA was VAP or citizen VAP. His language just says VAP, but a later lower court opined in REYES v. CITY OF FARMERS BRANCH TEXAS (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1499114.html) that  given the context of the relevant phrase in Bartlett, and the fact that the issue of VAP versus citizen VAP was not before the Bartlett court, and  that the whole concept of voting means eligible to vote,  what Justice Kennedy really meant to say was citizen VAP, and not just VAP, and so ruled.

And since that lower court was the 5th Circuit, that holding is the governing authority for the moment for Texas, unless and until Justice Kennedy in a later case rules that no, when he wrote VAP, and did not include the qualifier "citizen," that was because he intended not to. It is all very odd, since the lower court in Bartlett which was appealed to SCOTUS, explicitly discussed the issue of citizen versus non-citizen, and explicitly ruled that the relevant number was citizen VAP, and one cannot not include the non citizen minority VAP in the count.

Fun stuff isn't it?

Especially since the 7th Circuit wasn't willing to use a standard like CVAP in Gonzalez v. City of Aurora (2008) (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1375584.html). They want to compare the approved map to a race neutral map to test for vote dilution. Clearly the two circuits differ in approach and it sets up an inevitable SCOTUS review after the 2011 redistricting IMHO. Many legal experts I've spoke to in the last year agree that the subject of VAP vs CVAP will need clarification by the high court.
Shouldn't the high court address the issue of inter-district variation in CVAP?  Doesn't the deliberate packing of citizens of voting age in some districts result in their having less of a vote than citizens of voting age in other districts, and violate the 14th Amendment?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 02, 2011, 08:50:56 PM
The Court considered CVAP only as a proxy for determining the likelihood of a certain outcome, not for an individual's right to representation, which is based on being a resident of the state and not a citizen.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 02, 2011, 10:16:43 PM
I wouldn't worry about Sam's metro districts, what with the fact that not nearly all the non-Blacks / non-Mexicans are Anglo. Though who knows.

I'm not worried about the metro districts - so long as they vote the right way, no one will be complaining.  And the Hispanic CDs probably fit under VAP or citizen VAP - if not, adjustments can be made easily to make them compatible.

Anyway, map #2, which I'm working on, is the real way to f-ck Democrats of which there will be a hard time to find complaints to stop it.  The trick is to go back to the old Republican method of splitting Webb County, pitting Cuellar against Hinojosa in CD-15, and design new CD-28 so that it takes in the former border areas of TX-23, the leftover parts of Webb County and then combine them with Midland and Odessa, thus giving us Conaway as an incumbent.  I can get to 62.74% Hispanic population (definitely good enough for VAP or CVAP) and 55.07% McCain numbers while making everything look nice and pretty.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 02, 2011, 11:13:04 PM
The Court considered CVAP only as a proxy for determining the likelihood of a certain outcome, not for an individual's right to representation, which is based on being a resident of the state and not a citizen.

Quote from: Justice Hugo Black in Wesberry v Sanders
We hold that, construed in its historical context, the command of Art. I, § 2 that Representatives be chosen "by the People of the several States" means that, as nearly as is practicable, one man's vote in a congressional election is to be worth as much as another's.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 03, 2011, 07:36:36 AM
The Court considered CVAP only as a proxy for determining the likelihood of a certain outcome, not for an individual's right to representation, which is based on being a resident of the state and not a citizen.

Quote from: Justice Hugo Black in Wesberry v Sanders
We hold that, construed in its historical context, the command of Art. I, § 2 that Representatives be chosen "by the People of the several States" means that, as nearly as is practicable, one man's vote in a congressional election is to be worth as much as another's.

Interesting. When I have time, I'll have to read that decision for quotes supporting their decision to determine districting by resident population, and not the number of VAP citizens, because if they believed the latter was what mattered, they could easily have ruled for using that as the total. There are always quotes and arguments put forward in decisions that are then outweighed by other arguments seen to have more relevance and a stronger constitutional basis--hence "as nearly as practicable." Do you think that the courts would rule that a citizen's right to an equal distribution of CVAP outweighs the right of residents of the U.S. to equal representation regardless of ability or proclivity to vote? Is there evidence that the courts share that view?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 03, 2011, 07:50:31 AM
I do think it's interesting that Wesberry was decided at a time when the non-citizen adult population in the U.S. was likely at a low for the century... just before immigration reform. However, it was also before the mass registration of African-American citizens in the South, so there were surely districts in Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas with a relatively low number of voters. Did Wesberry comment on any of those districts for the purpose of de facto citizens' equal rights to representation vs. adults (not that African-Americans were represented by their representatives)? Did the courts make a nod to the fact that citizenship did not correlate with voting rights, which is a difference in analogizing that population to non-citizens and children today? I would think that if the court had concerns about districts with roughly equal populations but very different sized electorates, they would have seized the opportunity to say something. Whites in predominantly white areas surely were at a disadvantage to whites in heavily minority areas even when the districts were of equal population, as Wesberry decided was the best solution.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on January 03, 2011, 10:55:52 AM
I do think it's interesting that Wesberry was decided at a time when the non-citizen adult population in the U.S. was likely at a low for the century... just before immigration reform. However, it was also before the mass registration of African-American citizens in the South, so there were surely districts in Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas with a relatively low number of citizens. Did Wesberry comment on any of those districts for the purpose of de facto citizens' equal rights to representation vs. adults (not that African-Americans were represented by their representatives)? Did the courts make a nod to the fact that citizenship did not correlate with voting rights, which is a difference in analogizing that population to non-citizens and children today? I would think that if the court had concerns about districts with roughly equal populations but very different sized electorates, they would have seized the opportunity to say something. Whites in predominantly white areas surely were at a disadvantage to whites in heavily minority areas even when the districts were of equal population, as Wesberry decided was the best solution.

Hmm? Blacks in those places were always citizens, even when they couldn't vote. They met the 14th Amendment requirement of being born in the United States. After all, restrictions on black voting did not consist in laws actually banning blacks from voting (to which the courts would have immediately acknowledged they had a constitutional right) but rather on denying all people with low education levels or the inability to pay a fee the vote, or else through extralegal intimidation.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 03, 2011, 11:20:57 AM
Hmm? Blacks in those places were always citizens, even when they couldn't vote.

You're right of course, I meant to say "voters" in that particular sentence. The rest of my paragraph makes sense with that correction in mind (which I'll make now), I used "de facto citizens" to refer to those who could vote and distinguish them from those who couldn't. (which also included some poor whites, but that's another discussion.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on January 03, 2011, 01:02:42 PM
I wouldn't worry about Sam's metro districts, what with the fact that not nearly all the non-Blacks / non-Mexicans are Anglo. Though who knows.

I'm not worried about the metro districts - so long as they vote the right way, no one will be complaining.  And the Hispanic CDs probably fit under VAP or citizen VAP - if not, adjustments can be made easily to make them compatible.

Anyway, map #2, which I'm working on, is the real way to f-ck Democrats of which there will be a hard time to find complaints to stop it.  The trick is to go back to the old Republican method of splitting Webb County, pitting Cuellar against Hinojosa in CD-15, and design new CD-28 so that it takes in the former border areas of TX-23, the leftover parts of Webb County and then combine them with Midland and Odessa, thus giving us Conaway as an incumbent.  I can get to 62.74% Hispanic population (definitely good enough for VAP or CVAP) and 55.07% McCain numbers while making everything look nice and pretty.

I am finding that drawing really good maps requires a heck of a lot of work, Sam, precinct by precinct, and of course the larger number of CD's involved, the more the work. I found PA to be a bear, and Texas must be an utter nightmare. Can you imagine what will be involved to draw CA, with all those rules as an overlay?  Oh dear!

You can't just spend a couple of hours with your mouse, and call it a day. Not for this endeavor.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 03, 2011, 04:02:01 PM
I wouldn't worry about Sam's metro districts, what with the fact that not nearly all the non-Blacks / non-Mexicans are Anglo. Though who knows.

I'm not worried about the metro districts - so long as they vote the right way, no one will be complaining.  And the Hispanic CDs probably fit under VAP or citizen VAP - if not, adjustments can be made easily to make them compatible.

Anyway, map #2, which I'm working on, is the real way to f-ck Democrats of which there will be a hard time to find complaints to stop it.  The trick is to go back to the old Republican method of splitting Webb County, pitting Cuellar against Hinojosa in CD-15, and design new CD-28 so that it takes in the former border areas of TX-23, the leftover parts of Webb County and then combine them with Midland and Odessa, thus giving us Conaway as an incumbent.  I can get to 62.74% Hispanic population (definitely good enough for VAP or CVAP) and 55.07% McCain numbers while making everything look nice and pretty.

I am finding that drawing really good maps requires a heck of a lot of work, Sam, precinct by precinct, and of course the larger number of CD's involved, the more the work. I found PA to be a bear, and Texas must be an utter nightmare. Can you imagine what will be involved to draw CA, with all those rules as an overlay?  Oh dear!

You can't just spend a couple of hours with your mouse, and call it a day. Not for this endeavor.

With Texas, the only real questions occur from Austin southward and westward.  There's really no point to playing around with the other parts of the state that much, the results are obvious, except that it makes a lot of sense to give Johnson, Culberson and Sessions some younger suburbs.  Map #2 will be a bit different in layout than the present gerrymander than Map #1, and I must admit, looks much better.

I'm going to produce a map with 60%+1 Latino population and one with 62.50%+1 Latino population just for comparison.  The second one I know will produce a Hispanic majority even under CVAP, even though I can only get Farenthold up a bit in GOP strength (about 50-50) and there will be two obvious marginals (I can get TX-27 up to marginal status).  With 60%, I can certainly produce 27 seats that should produce GOP reps as the McCain% should be above 50% in the two marginals.

Depending on the actual numbers, this is the map that should be produced b/c you get the two new Hispanic majority CDs (the third would be made up of almost already all Democratic areas in Houston, if done) and 25 certain GOP reps, along with two marginals that look much better than present TX-23 and TX-27.

Actually, the problem with so many CDs is that it makes it harder for you to open up your eyes and see the best solution, which in Texas is 1) combine Cuellar and Hinojosa together - the geography works; 2) split Webb County; 3) include Midland/Odessa in a border CD.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 04, 2011, 05:18:03 PM
Interview about Texas redistricting.


http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/01/redistricting-q-2.php

MA: I think their starting place will be to try to hold their districts. And they'll do that by keeping the minority percentage the same, but putting in high-voting Anglo-Republicans. High turnout Republicans. What they did this time is they won because you had high turnout among Anglos who vote straight-ticket Republican.

And then they will draw a new Hispanic district in Dallas County and just say that that's a new Hispanic district. Because you can draw it there and not hurt any incumbent. Then they'll draw some kind of Hispanic district, or at least I'll call it a "Hispanic district" from Austin, South. But rather than leave the rest of Travis County for Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D), they'll break up Travis County into three or four pieces.

So Doggett will face a tough race. Either they'll get rid of him by putting him a Republican district or they'll make him run in a Hispanic district. Doggett's been elected in a Hispanic district before; maybe he can do it again. But it keeps Democrats from netting up seats. So then, in effect, what they will have done is created three new Republican districts.



I don't know if I agree with that, but its an interesting point to ponder. It makes much more sense to me just to draw a circle in Travis County and move on.

I don't know where this idea that there's going to be another hispanic majority Dem district in South Texas. I see no reason at all to draw one. If there has to be an 8th hispanic majority district it should use the idea posted above and just rearrange the 3 existing Houston districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 04, 2011, 05:31:07 PM
btw, the next map I'll work on is the Austin pack.  You won't get to 60% Hispanic though, which will probably cause LULAC to file suit for another Hispanic district.  Or maybe not.  

The fact remains is that, without making the map *too* ugly, a pretty safe 25-11 GOP map, with the Austin-San Antonio TX-23, can be created at the 62.5% Hispanic population level with one definite marginal stronger than present TX-23 or TX-27 and another marginal the same or weaker than those..  At the 60%, those two marginals become even stronger, of course.  The issue is that I can't get Farenthold's CD above McCain 52% with 60% Hispanics in its current configuration or something close.  You go to the north and east and you pick up too many whites.

With the Austin pack, I suspect I can get 26-10 with a bit more security, but 27-9 is probably impossible.  It allows me to try to push Farenthold's CD out to the west where I think I can get a better %.  We'll see.  Anything more than 27-9 anywhere, is impossible.  The GOP may be OK with 26-10, since they probably view Farenthold as a fluke, but we'll see.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 04, 2011, 05:37:26 PM
Interview about Texas redistricting.


http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/01/redistricting-q-2.php

MA: I think their starting place will be to try to hold their districts. And they'll do that by keeping the minority percentage the same, but putting in high-voting Anglo-Republicans. High turnout Republicans. What they did this time is they won because you had high turnout among Anglos who vote straight-ticket Republican.

And then they will draw a new Hispanic district in Dallas County and just say that that's a new Hispanic district. Because you can draw it there and not hurt any incumbent. Then they'll draw some kind of Hispanic district, or at least I'll call it a "Hispanic district" from Austin, South. But rather than leave the rest of Travis County for Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D), they'll break up Travis County into three or four pieces.

So Doggett will face a tough race. Either they'll get rid of him by putting him a Republican district or they'll make him run in a Hispanic district. Doggett's been elected in a Hispanic district before; maybe he can do it again. But it keeps Democrats from netting up seats. So then, in effect, what they will have done is created three new Republican districts.



I don't know if I agree with that, but its an interesting point to ponder. It makes much more sense to me just to draw a circle in Travis County and move on.

I don't know where this idea that there's going to be another hispanic majority Dem district in South Texas. I see no reason at all to draw one. If there has to be an 8th hispanic majority district it should use the idea posted above and just rearrange the 3 existing Houston districts.

So, in other words, they're going to follow the initial plan of my maps.  But no one will have the guts to go and draw Midland-Odessa with the border and a Webb County split.  It works - quite well, I might add. 55% McCain.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on January 04, 2011, 05:39:03 PM
 The issue is that I can't get Farenthold's CD above McCain 52% with 60% Hispanics in its current configuration or something close.  You go to the north and east and you pick up too many whites.

I got a Farenthold district at 50% McCain, 65% Hispanic:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=129772.msg2765676#msg2765676

You could probably modify it to get 52% McCain, 60% Hispanic pretty easily.  


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 04, 2011, 05:53:21 PM
 The issue is that I can't get Farenthold's CD above McCain 52% with 60% Hispanics in its current configuration or something close.  You go to the north and east and you pick up too many whites.

I got a Farenthold district at 50% McCain, 65% Hispanic:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=129772.msg2765676#msg2765676

You could probably modify it to get 52% McCain, 60% Hispanic pretty easily.  

I should have clarified - without making it look *butt-ugly*.  :)

But even with that, you should seriously think about f-ing Cuellar.  The trick is going up to Midland-Odessa, pulling in rural counties  around that area in west Texas (which have lots of Hispanics) and splitting Webb.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 04, 2011, 06:10:31 PM
Interview about Texas redistricting.


http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/01/redistricting-q-2.php

MA: I think their starting place will be to try to hold their districts. And they'll do that by keeping the minority percentage the same, but putting in high-voting Anglo-Republicans. High turnout Republicans. What they did this time is they won because you had high turnout among Anglos who vote straight-ticket Republican.

And then they will draw a new Hispanic district in Dallas County and just say that that's a new Hispanic district. Because you can draw it there and not hurt any incumbent. Then they'll draw some kind of Hispanic district, or at least I'll call it a "Hispanic district" from Austin, South. But rather than leave the rest of Travis County for Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D), they'll break up Travis County into three or four pieces.

So Doggett will face a tough race. Either they'll get rid of him by putting him a Republican district or they'll make him run in a Hispanic district. Doggett's been elected in a Hispanic district before; maybe he can do it again. But it keeps Democrats from netting up seats. So then, in effect, what they will have done is created three new Republican districts.



I don't know if I agree with that, but its an interesting point to ponder. It makes much more sense to me just to draw a circle in Travis County and move on.

I don't know where this idea that there's going to be another hispanic majority Dem district in South Texas. I see no reason at all to draw one. If there has to be an 8th hispanic majority district it should use the idea posted above and just rearrange the 3 existing Houston districts.

So, in other words, they're going to follow the initial plan of my maps.  But no one will have the guts to go and draw Midland-Odessa with the border and a Webb County split.  It works - quite well, I might add. 55% McCain.

I wouldn't say nobody. Tom Delay might, if they can find a way to contract him from prison.

I still believe the cleanest solution is 26-10, Austin Pack, 3 GOP marginals (Canseco, Farenholdt, and whomever gets the new district), and 7 hispanic majority districts. LULAC will probably complain no matter what you do.

I don't see any court forcing any type of Austin to San Antonio district, which is really just a waste of Republican votes and forces you to crack the Austin liberal whites. I'm going to try to work on a map to use TX 13, 19, and 11 and utterly chop Austin into bits.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 04, 2011, 06:19:21 PM
Interview about Texas redistricting.


http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/01/redistricting-q-2.php

MA: I think their starting place will be to try to hold their districts. And they'll do that by keeping the minority percentage the same, but putting in high-voting Anglo-Republicans. High turnout Republicans. What they did this time is they won because you had high turnout among Anglos who vote straight-ticket Republican.

And then they will draw a new Hispanic district in Dallas County and just say that that's a new Hispanic district. Because you can draw it there and not hurt any incumbent. Then they'll draw some kind of Hispanic district, or at least I'll call it a "Hispanic district" from Austin, South. But rather than leave the rest of Travis County for Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D), they'll break up Travis County into three or four pieces.

So Doggett will face a tough race. Either they'll get rid of him by putting him a Republican district or they'll make him run in a Hispanic district. Doggett's been elected in a Hispanic district before; maybe he can do it again. But it keeps Democrats from netting up seats. So then, in effect, what they will have done is created three new Republican districts.



I don't know if I agree with that, but its an interesting point to ponder. It makes much more sense to me just to draw a circle in Travis County and move on.

I don't know where this idea that there's going to be another hispanic majority Dem district in South Texas. I see no reason at all to draw one. If there has to be an 8th hispanic majority district it should use the idea posted above and just rearrange the 3 existing Houston districts.

So, in other words, they're going to follow the initial plan of my maps.  But no one will have the guts to go and draw Midland-Odessa with the border and a Webb County split.  It works - quite well, I might add. 55% McCain.

I wouldn't say nobody. Tom Delay might, if they can find a way to contract him from prison.

I still believe the cleanest solution is 26-10, Austin Pack, 3 GOP marginals (Canseco, Farenholdt, and whomever gets the new district), and 7 hispanic majority districts. LULAC will probably complain no matter what you do.

I don't see any court forcing any type of Austin to San Antonio district, which is really just a waste of Republican votes and forces you to crack the Austin liberal whites. I'm going to try to work on a map to use TX 13, 19, and 11 and utterly chop Austin into bits.

The Austin-San Antonio thing won't be forced either, I agree. 

But since I can chop Austin into bits in map #2 with McCain % being 57.50% in all the Austin choppers (map#2 I've designed has it being Smith, Canseco, Neugebauer and Flores!) I don't view it as being that big of a wast.  :)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 04, 2011, 06:32:35 PM
Interview about Texas redistricting.


http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/01/redistricting-q-2.php

MA: I think their starting place will be to try to hold their districts. And they'll do that by keeping the minority percentage the same, but putting in high-voting Anglo-Republicans. High turnout Republicans. What they did this time is they won because you had high turnout among Anglos who vote straight-ticket Republican.

And then they will draw a new Hispanic district in Dallas County and just say that that's a new Hispanic district. Because you can draw it there and not hurt any incumbent. Then they'll draw some kind of Hispanic district, or at least I'll call it a "Hispanic district" from Austin, South. But rather than leave the rest of Travis County for Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D), they'll break up Travis County into three or four pieces.

So Doggett will face a tough race. Either they'll get rid of him by putting him a Republican district or they'll make him run in a Hispanic district. Doggett's been elected in a Hispanic district before; maybe he can do it again. But it keeps Democrats from netting up seats. So then, in effect, what they will have done is created three new Republican districts.



I don't know if I agree with that, but its an interesting point to ponder. It makes much more sense to me just to draw a circle in Travis County and move on.

I don't know where this idea that there's going to be another hispanic majority Dem district in South Texas. I see no reason at all to draw one. If there has to be an 8th hispanic majority district it should use the idea posted above and just rearrange the 3 existing Houston districts.

So, in other words, they're going to follow the initial plan of my maps.  But no one will have the guts to go and draw Midland-Odessa with the border and a Webb County split.  It works - quite well, I might add. 55% McCain.

I wouldn't say nobody. Tom Delay might, if they can find a way to contract him from prison.

I still believe the cleanest solution is 26-10, Austin Pack, 3 GOP marginals (Canseco, Farenholdt, and whomever gets the new district), and 7 hispanic majority districts. LULAC will probably complain no matter what you do.

I don't see any court forcing any type of Austin to San Antonio district, which is really just a waste of Republican votes and forces you to crack the Austin liberal whites. I'm going to try to work on a map to use TX 13, 19, and 11 and utterly chop Austin into bits.

The Austin-San Antonio thing won't be forced either, I agree. 

But since I can chop Austin into bits in map #2 with McCain % being 57.50% in all the Austin choppers (map#2 I've designed has it being Smith, Canseco, Neugebauer and Flores!) I don't view it as being that big of a wast.  :)


Map 2 is the 27-9 map, right? 3 Houston, 2 Dallas, 1 El Paso, 1 San Antonio, 2 South Texas?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on January 04, 2011, 07:27:42 PM
The issue is that I can't get Farenthold's CD above McCain 52% with 60% Hispanics in its current configuration or something close.  You go to the north and east and you pick up too many whites.

I got a Farenthold district at 50% McCain, 65% Hispanic:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=129772.msg2765676#msg2765676

You could probably modify it to get 52% McCain, 60% Hispanic pretty easily.  

I should have clarified - without making it look *butt-ugly*.  :)

But even with that, you should seriously think about f-ing Cuellar.  The trick is going up to Midland-Odessa, pulling in rural counties  around that area in west Texas (which have lots of Hispanics) and splitting Webb.

Not any uglier than some of your dangling arms.   You could call it the Hispanic hook from hell.   :-p

I'm toying with combining that with an Austin-San Antonio VRA district... might be able to get to 25 GOP 2 lean 9 Dem whilst adding two Hispanic seats. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 04, 2011, 07:36:50 PM
Interview about Texas redistricting.


http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/01/redistricting-q-2.php

MA: I think their starting place will be to try to hold their districts. And they'll do that by keeping the minority percentage the same, but putting in high-voting Anglo-Republicans. High turnout Republicans. What they did this time is they won because you had high turnout among Anglos who vote straight-ticket Republican.

And then they will draw a new Hispanic district in Dallas County and just say that that's a new Hispanic district. Because you can draw it there and not hurt any incumbent. Then they'll draw some kind of Hispanic district, or at least I'll call it a "Hispanic district" from Austin, South. But rather than leave the rest of Travis County for Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D), they'll break up Travis County into three or four pieces.

So Doggett will face a tough race. Either they'll get rid of him by putting him a Republican district or they'll make him run in a Hispanic district. Doggett's been elected in a Hispanic district before; maybe he can do it again. But it keeps Democrats from netting up seats. So then, in effect, what they will have done is created three new Republican districts.



I don't know if I agree with that, but its an interesting point to ponder. It makes much more sense to me just to draw a circle in Travis County and move on.

I don't know where this idea that there's going to be another hispanic majority Dem district in South Texas. I see no reason at all to draw one. If there has to be an 8th hispanic majority district it should use the idea posted above and just rearrange the 3 existing Houston districts.

So, in other words, they're going to follow the initial plan of my maps.  But no one will have the guts to go and draw Midland-Odessa with the border and a Webb County split.  It works - quite well, I might add. 55% McCain.

I wouldn't say nobody. Tom Delay might, if they can find a way to contract him from prison.

I still believe the cleanest solution is 26-10, Austin Pack, 3 GOP marginals (Canseco, Farenholdt, and whomever gets the new district), and 7 hispanic majority districts. LULAC will probably complain no matter what you do.

I don't see any court forcing any type of Austin to San Antonio district, which is really just a waste of Republican votes and forces you to crack the Austin liberal whites. I'm going to try to work on a map to use TX 13, 19, and 11 and utterly chop Austin into bits.

The Austin-San Antonio thing won't be forced either, I agree. 

But since I can chop Austin into bits in map #2 with McCain % being 57.50% in all the Austin choppers (map#2 I've designed has it being Smith, Canseco, Neugebauer and Flores!) I don't view it as being that big of a wast.  :)


Map 2 is the 27-9 map, right? 3 Houston, 2 Dallas, 1 El Paso, 1 San Antonio, 2 South Texas?


1 San Antonio-Austin

I can get you 27 McCain districts (25 being 54% or above, 24 being 57.50% or more) with at least 9 Hispanic-majority districts at 60% or more.  But you can probably only count on 26, as the 27th will have to be a kind-of-strange rural district.  The GOP won one of the HDs this year that would almost certainly be in the 27th, and there's the party-switcher, so there will be possible candidates


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 04, 2011, 09:18:03 PM
Actually, the problem with so many CDs is that it makes it harder for you to open up your eyes and see the best solution, which in Texas is 1) combine Cuellar and Hinojosa together - the geography works; 2) split Webb County; 3) include Midland/Odessa in a border CD.

I just tried this. Utterly, utterly brilliant, if I got it right.

I am not sure about your intention, though, is the intention for the Midland district to be Hispanic? Because I didn't see exactly how to get it there, nor do I see a reason to. I just used my CD-11 to dilute those hyperdem 80% counties.

()


CD-16, CD-20 - Whatever.

CD-23 - 62% Hispanic, 55% McCain

CD-28 - 59% Hispanic, 52% McCain

CD-27 - 59% Hispanic, 53% McCain

CD-33 - new Republican 57% McCain district

CD-11 - now *only* 67% McCain

CD-25 - packed in Lloyd Doggett district

You really limit the Democrats to 1 district in South Texas, and that's TX-15. From here you just rampage over the rest of the map.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 05, 2011, 12:38:23 AM
don't include San Angelo, but include Midland.  don't go too far west into central Texas.  Pick through the El Paso precincts for strong Hispanic ones.

I've gotten 60.54% Hispanic and 57.32% McCain; 62.73% Hispanic and 55.09% McCain.  Plus, if you include Midland, you get Conaway as an incumbent in a district with a lot of strange rural counties where it's too GOP for Pete Gallego to take a chance.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 06:32:52 AM
Forget dreaming. You're not going to get these things past any court, if the TX23 decision is any indication.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 05, 2011, 07:36:16 AM
What is the impact if Republicans in the legislature decide they'd rather create a seat for one of themselves instead of shoring up a flake like Farenthold in a marginal part of the state?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 08:16:06 AM
They pretty much have to add some territory to the border seats and create an additional seat there. Not trying to make that an R seat would be silly. Going north from Corpus and drawing a seat for Farenthold is the obvious choice - otherwise you're forced to do the kind of map krazen and Sam are talking about further west.
Obviously, you could make it a whole lot more marginal on the basis of "look at the seat he won in 2010", but...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 05, 2011, 08:26:32 AM
Forget dreaming. You're not going to get these things past any court, if the TX23 decision is any indication.

Unless you know something about Anthony Kennedy that nobody else does, it shouldn't be any indication.

There's no retrogression, and TX-23, TX-27, and TX-28 all resemble their current shapes. Plus, you get 2 new Hispanic districts TX-33 and TX-9.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 05, 2011, 09:03:52 AM
They pretty much have to add some territory to the border seats and create an additional seat there. Not trying to make that an R seat would be silly. Going north from Corpus and drawing a seat for Farenthold is the obvious choice - otherwise you're forced to do the kind of map krazen and Sam are talking about further west.
Obviously, you could make it a whole lot more marginal on the basis of "look at the seat he won in 2010", but...

Lewis, you're basically forced to go north on Farenthold regardless of whether you do the thing out west I'm talking about if you want to give him a McCain CD.  I'm working on trying to get him to 53% or 54% while staying above 60% Hispanic, but it ain't easy, and is probably as far as I can go.

As for Texas, what is pretty clear is this - you have 24 obvious GOP seats and 7 obvious Dem seats (3 Houston, 2 Dallas, 1 San Antonio, 1 El Paso, 4-5 Hispanic minority majority) in a fairly nice looking map, irregardless.  What's left is Doggett, Cuellar, Hinojosa, Canseco and Farenthold.  Drawing Canseco into a new north Bexar and other district is rather easy, so you'll create an open seat.

As for the rest, another Dem seat has to either be the Hispanic-majority Austin to San Antonio thing I mentioned or the Austin pack.  The Hispanics will insist (especially with Austin pack, but with other too) that the others be Hispanic-majority, and it is hard for me to disagree there because the numbers support it.

So we're left with an OK district for Farenthold and even though I can get one of the others into marginal status (kinda), with South Texas this is always a question mark.

That's where the west idea comes from.  And don't think it has no chance in the courts - under the rules laid out by Kennedy, it is a much stronger argument, as it will 1) have a CVAP of over 50% and 2) be fairly compact (less important argument).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 05, 2011, 09:23:50 AM
don't include San Angelo, but include Midland.  don't go too far west into central Texas.  Pick through the El Paso precincts for strong Hispanic ones.

I've gotten 60.54% Hispanic and 57.32% McCain; 62.73% Hispanic and 55.09% McCain.  Plus, if you include Midland, you get Conaway as an incumbent in a district with a lot of strange rural counties where it's too GOP for Pete Gallego to take a chance.

Wait, are you talking about TX-23 (Canseco, the light blue district) or TX-11 (Conoway, the light green district?)

I'm not sure whether you are trying to create 3 McCain Hispanic districts or 4. I found making 3 to be relatively easy. The only question is what you do with the remaining half of Webb County; I chose to just dump it obviously.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on January 05, 2011, 09:27:49 AM
As for Texas, what is pretty clear is this - you have 24 obvious GOP seats and 7 obvious Dem seats (3 Houston, 2 Dallas, 1 San Antonio, 1 El Paso, 4-5 Hispanic minority majority) in a fairly nice looking map, irregardless.  What's left is Doggett, Cuellar, Hinojosa, Canseco and Farenthold.  Drawing Canseco into a new north Bexar and other district is rather easy, so you'll create an open seat.

As for the rest, another Dem seat has to either be the Hispanic-majority Austin to San Antonio thing I mentioned or the Austin pack.  The Hispanics will insist (especially with Austin pack, but with other too) that the others be Hispanic-majority, and it is hard for me to disagree there because the numbers support it.

One could try to make the Austin-to-San Antonio Hispanic seat the same as the San Antonio Dem seat... that's getting really ambitious but I can make that happen in some configurations.  Might require too many districts pitching in to chop the rest of Austin, though. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 05, 2011, 09:30:11 AM
One could try to make the Austin-to-San Antonio Hispanic seat the same as the San Antonio Dem seat... that's getting really ambitious but I can make that happen in some configurations.  Might require too many districts pitching in to chop the rest of Austin, though. 

Bexar has close to 1,000,000 Hispanic residents according to the 2009 Census estimates; Travis has about 300,000. You need more than one district for everyone.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 05, 2011, 09:31:30 AM
Ok, another question. Shouldn't Republicans be worried about banking on multiple 52-54% McCain, 60+% Hispanic districts in places where nearly all of the population growth in the next 10 years is going to make the districts more Democratic?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 05, 2011, 09:35:41 AM
Ok, another question. Shouldn't Republicans be worried about banking on multiple 52-54% McCain, 60+% Hispanic districts in places where nearly all of the population growth in the next 10 years is going to make the districts more Democratic?


I don't think anyone is banking on them (although R+5 to R+7 is not all that unsafe), but what else can you do with the territory?

Between the existing 15, 23, 27, 28 Obama I think won all 4 districts. If you could retrogress you'd just pack 1 of the 4 and create safe McCain districts with the other 3, but you can't.

It's not like you're weakening the remaining 24 districts by monkeying around with 23, 27, 28.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 09:55:15 AM
What you're trying to do is eliminate a Hispanic opportunity seat (that is, a seat in which the victor will be reliant on widespread Hispanic support), while technically fulfilling a random cutoff line and while creating unnecessarily disparate, huge constituencies in particularly empty minority country. You're doing exactly what the TX-23 decision says you can't do in West Texas, except with several districts. And run the risk of the same thing happening again - your seats struck down and your evil plans for other seats thwarted as an indirect consequence.



At which point I went to read the SC decision, because I think I've only ever read the district court's.

Quote
a Latino majority as to voting age population, though not a Latino majority as to citizen voting age population or an effective Latino voting majority
Quote
"Thornburg v. Gingles, 478 U. S. 30, 50-51, identified three threshold conditions for establishing a §2 violation: (1) the racial group must be "sufficiently large and geographically compact to constitute a majority in a single-member district"; (2) the group must be "politically cohesive"; and (3) the white majority must "vot[e] sufficiently as a bloc to enable it ... usually to defeat the minority's preferred candidate." The legislative history identifies factors that courts can use, once all three threshold requirements are met, in interpreting §2's "totality of circumstances" standard (...) The district court's determination whether the §2 requirements are satisfied must be upheld unless clearly erroneous.
Quote
the Latinos' diminishing electoral support for the incumbent indicates their belief he was unresponsive to their particularized needs. In essence, the State took away their opportunity because they were about to exercise it.

Yeah, seems to me like they're saying "random figures like 60% or whatever are not of primary relevance. What matters is the outcome". Oh, and also "what Justice Kennedy thinks is not of primary relevance. These dudes (http://www.txwd.uscourts.gov/general/judges/biographylist.asp) are actually slightly more important - we're unlikely to flat out overturn them unless they unduly provoke us, even if we don't like their reasoning (this is, after all, what they did with TX23 - change the parts of the reasoning that they didn't like while upholding the outcome).
Oh, and here:
Quote
Under §2, by contrast, the injury is vote dilution, so the compactness inquiry considers "the compactness of the minority population, not ... the compactness of the contested district." Vera, 517 U. S., at 997. A district that "reaches out to grab small and apparently isolated minority communities" is not reasonably compact.
Yeah, (largely) non-voting Hispanic communities in the Permian Basin and parts of the panhandle are just about the posterbook case for what's described here.

Ok, another question. Shouldn't Republicans be worried about banking on multiple 52-54% McCain, 60+% Hispanic districts in places where nearly all of the population growth in the next 10 years is going to make the districts more Democratic?


I don't think anyone is banking on them (although R+5 to R+7 is not all that unsafe), but what else
can you do with the territory?
In this case and with these districts... actually I find em quite unsafe. At even money, I'd bet on your TX27 and TX28 voting for Hispanic Democrats most of the time.  Your TX23 wouldn't, but (in conjunction with that 11th) it's not going to last long. It's a fairly unequivocal dilution of Latino voting strength.
The bizarre thing is that from a personal preferences pov, I like a compact Lower Valley district... (though yours isn't as compact as it ought to be)... and that you're at current throwing the gain away by conceding a seat to Doggett. Which is what "ought" to be done, of course, but probably isn't strictly necessary and probably won't be done. Sam's earlier plan to set him up for a battle against Ciro Rodriguez is a very good idea is a very good idea to get rid of him. (Though if I were Canseco I wouldn't have liked Sam's plan at all, actually - safe from the Democrats, but thrown to the Anglo Primary wolves.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 10:14:57 AM
Forget dreaming. You're not going to get these things past any court, if the TX23 decision is any indication.

Unless you know something about Anthony Kennedy that nobody else does, it shouldn't be any indication.
The more I think about it, the surer I am that I know Kennedy's mind on VRA issues quite well.

"I'd much rather not be having to think about them anymore at all. It is my duty to hear these cases, but I am somewhat unlikely to actually listen. Unfortunately not one of my colleagues can be trusted on them, but thankfully most of the lower courts can, and while I reserve the right to contradict them, it is rather unlikely that I will." :-*


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on January 05, 2011, 10:15:22 AM
One could try to make the Austin-to-San Antonio Hispanic seat the same as the San Antonio Dem seat... that's getting really ambitious but I can make that happen in some configurations.  Might require too many districts pitching in to chop the rest of Austin, though. 

Bexar has close to 1,000,000 Hispanic residents according to the 2009 Census estimates; Travis has about 300,000. You need more than one district for everyone.

It's not like all of those Hispanic residents live in areas that need to be part of the Dem pack.  Especially if a good number of them are used in a San Antonio+points south Hispanic marginal seat.  


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 05, 2011, 11:33:35 AM
What you're trying to do is eliminate a Hispanic opportunity seat (that is, a seat in which the victor will be reliant on widespread Hispanic support), while technically fulfilling a random cutoff line and while creating unnecessarily disparate, huge constituencies in particularly empty minority country. You're doing exactly what the TX-23 decision says you can't do in West Texas, except with several districts. And run the risk of the same thing happening again - your seats struck down and your evil plans for other seats thwarted as an indirect consequence.

I'm basically not worried about that.  Any court-designed map based on present gerrymander (which is what they'll do) is going to be hard not to make 24-12, especially if you play Austin-pack and sacrifice Canseco to the Anglo wolves.  Getting seat #25, in almost any way you design it, becomes quite difficult unless you can do what I did or convince them to let you create an Anglo-majority district for Farenthold.  Any Hispanic minority-majority district with Farenthold can be made stronger, but not safe.  There is, at least, a GOP institutional base in Nueces, so if he screws up, the CD is certainly not lost for good.

As for the rest of your points on LULAC v. Perry I respectfully disagree.  Maybe more later.  The last two Texas maps have gone to the Supremes, so I wouldn't be surprised if Kennedy is involved again.


Quote
In this case and with these districts... actually I find em quite unsafe. At even money, I'd bet on your TX27 and TX28 voting for Hispanic Democrats most of the time.  Your TX23 wouldn't, but (in conjunction with that 11th) it's not going to last long. It's a fairly unequivocal dilution of Latino voting strength.
The bizarre thing is that from a personal preferences pov, I like a compact Lower Valley district... (though yours isn't as compact as it ought to be)... and that you're at current throwing the gain away by conceding a seat to Doggett. Which is what "ought" to be done, of course, but probably isn't strictly necessary and probably won't be done. Sam's earlier plan to set him up for a battle against Ciro Rodriguez is a very good idea is a very good idea to get rid of him. (Though if I were Canseco I wouldn't have liked Sam's plan at all, actually - safe from the Democrats, but thrown to the Anglo Primary wolves.)

My point about TX-23 is, once again, how is it dilution of Latino voting strength if, where they are located, they vote more Republican than in other places?  That wasn't really at issue in LULAC, as they voted rather predictably in its prior iteration.  TX-11 is 30% Hispanic, after all, in present form.  Is it a requirement now that you have enough Hispanics that vote Democratic consistently in order for compactness to be met?

My TX-15 and TX-28 are pure border districts and quite legal, regardless of the fact that I can get one of them to potential marginal status if I make Farenthold weaker.  I recognize who they'll probably elect, but that's not the point. 

Lastly, Farenthold's CD will have to push north to take in San Antonio suburbs anyway if you want to make it a good partisan gerrymander with enough Hispanic votes.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 05, 2011, 11:41:28 AM
What you're trying to do is eliminate a Hispanic opportunity seat (that is, a seat in which the victor will be reliant on widespread Hispanic support), while technically fulfilling a random cutoff line and while creating unnecessarily disparate, huge constituencies in particularly empty minority country. You're doing exactly what the TX-23 decision says you can't do in West Texas, except with several districts. And run the risk of the same thing happening again - your seats struck down and your evil plans for other seats thwarted as an indirect consequence.



At which point I went to read the SC decision, because I think I've only ever read the district court's.

Quote
a Latino majority as to voting age population, though not a Latino majority as to citizen voting age population or an effective Latino voting majority
Quote
"Thornburg v. Gingles, 478 U. S. 30, 50-51, identified three threshold conditions for establishing a §2 violation: (1) the racial group must be "sufficiently large and geographically compact to constitute a majority in a single-member district"; (2) the group must be "politically cohesive"; and (3) the white majority must "vot[e] sufficiently as a bloc to enable it ... usually to defeat the minority's preferred candidate." The legislative history identifies factors that courts can use, once all three threshold requirements are met, in interpreting §2's "totality of circumstances" standard (...) The district court's determination whether the §2 requirements are satisfied must be upheld unless clearly erroneous.
Quote
the Latinos' diminishing electoral support for the incumbent indicates their belief he was unresponsive to their particularized needs. In essence, the State took away their opportunity because they were about to exercise it.

Yeah, seems to me like they're saying "random figures like 60% or whatever are not of primary relevance. What matters is the outcome". Oh, and also "what Justice Kennedy thinks is not of primary relevance. These dudes (http://www.txwd.uscourts.gov/general/judges/biographylist.asp) are actually slightly more important - we're unlikely to flat out overturn them unless they unduly provoke us, even if we don't like their reasoning (this is, after all, what they did with TX23 - change the parts of the reasoning that they didn't like while upholding the outcome).
Oh, and here:
Quote
Under §2, by contrast, the injury is vote dilution, so the compactness inquiry considers "the compactness of the minority population, not ... the compactness of the contested district." Vera, 517 U. S., at 997. A district that "reaches out to grab small and apparently isolated minority communities" is not reasonably compact.
Yeah, (largely) non-voting Hispanic communities in the Permian Basin and parts of the panhandle are just about the posterbook case for what's described here.

Ok, another question. Shouldn't Republicans be worried about banking on multiple 52-54% McCain, 60+% Hispanic districts in places where nearly all of the population growth in the next 10 years is going to make the districts more Democratic?


I don't think anyone is banking on them (although R+5 to R+7 is not all that unsafe), but what else
can you do with the territory?
In this case and with these districts... actually I find em quite unsafe. At even money, I'd bet on your TX27 and TX28 voting for Hispanic Democrats most of the time.  Your TX23 wouldn't, but (in conjunction with that 11th) it's not going to last long. It's a fairly unequivocal dilution of Latino voting strength.
The bizarre thing is that from a personal preferences pov, I like a compact Lower Valley district... (though yours isn't as compact as it ought to be)... and that you're at current throwing the gain away by conceding a seat to Doggett. Which is what "ought" to be done, of course, but probably isn't strictly necessary and probably won't be done. Sam's earlier plan to set him up for a battle against Ciro Rodriguez is a very good idea is a very good idea to get rid of him. (Though if I were Canseco I wouldn't have liked Sam's plan at all, actually - safe from the Democrats, but thrown to the Anglo Primary wolves.)



The rest of that opinion, though, specifically referenced CVAP and the ability (or inability) to vote for a candidate. The fact that those people don't vote is their own problem.

In any case, the damage is fairly contained. Even if you are correct, all that probably will happen is the 11th and 23rd flipping territory, with the 23rd becoming a 54-55% Obama Laredo to San Antonio seat and the 11th covering the entire empty area. There's little risk I see to the new 28th and new 27th, which are about 6 points more Republican than they were.

The gain, though, isn't Doggett's seat. It's Cuellar's, who would have to run in either the light blue west Texas district or the pink district that doesn't include Laredo. The pink district is a new district intended for some new Republican to run in.

Someone is going to be suing no matter what they do. I doubt that stops anyone. And didn't the district court, or the appeals court, uphold the fajita strip TX-25?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 05, 2011, 12:57:57 PM
Btw, I may create a version of said map (talked about above in great extent) which leaves Cuellar and Webb intact, thus leaving us to argue whether the fact Canseco and Farenthold got elected in TX-23 and TX-27 means that the Hispanic majority is exercising its vote differently now.  :P


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 03:08:42 PM

My TX-15 and TX-28 are pure border districts and quite legal, regardless of the fact that I can get one of them to potential marginal status if I make Farenthold weaker. 
Wait... which map again? My whole "courts'll strike it down" argument is in reference to krazen's map (and probably the new one you're promising), not your first attempt. Your first attempt looks to me like it ought to stand.
The rest of that opinion, though, specifically referenced CVAP and the ability (or inability) to vote for a candidate.
Yes, but only because that was quite enough on its own to strike it down. It's VRA case law. There aren't any sufficient conditions to prove a district is fine, only necessary conditions. 
Quote
In any case, the damage is fairly contained. Even if you are correct, all that probably will happen is the 11th and 23rd flipping territory, with the 23rd becoming a 54-55% Obama Laredo to San Antonio seat and the 11th covering the entire empty area.
The most likely remedy; but also your best-case scenario once the seats have been struck down. They could easily redraw a few more seats while they're at it, as they did in the TX23 case.
Quote
The gain, though, isn't Doggett's seat. It's Cuellar's, who would have to run in either the light blue west Texas district or the pink district that doesn't include Laredo. The pink district is a new district intended for some new Republican to run in.
Yeah, I was comparing to a hypothetical unposted combination of your and Sam's maps in which they were both targetted. I ought to be technically possible... or would be without the VRA. Anyways, if the Delaymander is anything to go by (possibly not), TX Reps'll be more interested in targetting Doggett than Cuellar.

Quote
Someone is going to be suing no matter what they do.
Oh, quite. :) The question is, how far will they get?
Quote
Didn't the district court, or the appeals court, uphold the fajita strip TX-25?
The District Court *technically* did, or pretended they did, really. The SC expressly struck it down. The SC decision is really just adapting the DC's logic to better fit the precedent without having to change the outcome, though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 03:10:38 PM
Btw, I may create a version of said map (talked about above in great extent) which leaves Cuellar and Webb intact, thus leaving us to argue whether the fact Canseco and Farenthold got elected in TX-23 and TX-27 means that the Hispanic majority is exercising its vote differently now.  :P
I fully expect the state of Texas to make such an argument, actually. And I don't even think it's wholly inaccurate - Ortiz probably got ousted because he was getting too old and people were tired of him.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 03:35:20 PM
Quote
The gain, though, isn't Doggett's seat. It's Cuellar's, who would have to run in either the light blue west Texas district or the pink district that doesn't include Laredo. The pink district is a new district intended for some new Republican to run in.
Yeah, I was comparing to a hypothetical unposted combination of your and Sam's maps in which they were both targetted. I ought to be technically possible... or would be without the VRA. Anyways, if the Delaymander is anything to go by (possibly not), TX Reps'll be more interested in targetting Doggett than Cuellar.
Which still makes for a counting error on my part, given that Sam was replacing Doggett with another Democrat. Just noticed that. Sorry.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 05, 2011, 04:08:42 PM
I would just say the opposite, actually. Part of the point of Delaymandering was to target Cuellar, who wasn't a member of the House yet.

Cuellar almost knocked off Henry Bonilla, so they wanted to knock down the Hispanic % there and remove Laredo from the 23rd. Targeting Doggett was indirect and mostly a side effect because they needed to make a replacement district.

As it stands, last time, they only changed the minimum number of districts required, which was 5 if I recall, and they only made the minimal changes required.

In any case, here's the first redistricting bill. It's set up around 32 districts rather than 36, if someone wants to poke through it.

http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?id=562653


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 05, 2011, 04:17:05 PM
I would just say the opposite, actually. Part of the point of Delaymandering was to target Cuellar, who wasn't a member of the House yet.

Cuellar almost knocked off Henry Bonilla, so they wanted to knock down the Hispanic % there and remove Laredo from the 23rd.
They split Laredo, actually, just as you're doing now. It was an issue in the District Court's ruling. And they drew Cuellar's home into a safe democratic district, which he then ran in, primarying Ciro, so...
Quote
Targeting Doggett was indirect and mostly a side effect because they needed to make a replacement district.
Not really. They argued afterwards that that was what they had done, though, after it became clear that the original line that Bonilla's was still a Hispanic-opportunity district (or alternatively, that it hadn't been before 2002, and thus didn't need to be made into one just because it would be natural to do so. Which, btw, is a line of logic wholly alien to the VRA) wouldn't fly.

Quote
As it stands, last time, they only changed the minimum number of districts required, which was 5 if I recall, and they only made the minimal changes required.
They could have easily left Hinojosa's district alone. Resulting in a less white, less compact seat for Doggett.
Of course, in practice they probably felt that district was just as much of a disgrace as its western neighbors. Changes in outer Bexar (Gonzalez' district was left unchanged) were massive all-round and could easily have been reduced.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 05, 2011, 04:51:24 PM
You know, I can do my map without splitting Webb, though I really don't think that there is any prohibition against that per se.  Splitting Webb is done because I can get the highest McCain % that way (about 1% more than the others that I've found so far) and it makes the map look the prettiest.  Besides, I like the idea of combining Cuellar and Hinojosa in a primary, though there's no real need for it if you concede TX-28 and 10 seats to the Dems, which the GOP may well do, recognizing that Farenthold was likely a fluke who needs protection and attempting to create another south Texas GOP opportunity seat is unlikely to be successful.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 05, 2011, 06:14:38 PM
I drew a map that would have 21 safe GOP districts, 1 lean GOP district, 1 Tossup, 2 Lean Dem Districts, and 11 Safe Dem Districts.

Here they are:

CD 14
all of Jefferson County
all of Chambers County
black areas of Orange County
all of Galveston County
southeastern Brazoria County
61 percent white 58 percent McCain
I: Ron Paul
Comments: I wouldn't be surprised if Michael Dukakis won this district. This area has suffered from Archie Bunker's disease.

CD 22
remaining areas of Brazoria County, all of Matagorda County, anglo areas of Fort Bend County, (basically west of HWY 59), 95% of Colorado County, all of Austin County, 90% of Waller County. 59 percent white, 61 percent McCain
I: Pete Olson
Comments: Olson is safe here

CD 9
part of Fort Bend County in Dora Olivo's district; SW Harris County. 36 percent black, 29 percent white, 25 percent Hispanic, 9 percent Asian, 1 percent Other. 68 percent Obama
I: Al Green
Comments: Probably the most diverse district in the nation. The district isn't as dem as the old CD 9 but it is still a D+15

CD 30 all of Eric Johnson's district, all of Helen Giddings district, all of Yvonne Davis's district, all of Barbara Malloy Caraway's district, part of Roberto Alonzo's district. This district is 45 percent black, 29 percent Hispanic, 23 percent white, 2 percent Asian, 1 percent other. Obama got 81 percent here.
I: EBJ
Comments: The blackest district in Texas. Not surprisingly the most democratic.

CD 24 all of Rafael Anchia's district, all of Linda Harper Brown's district, all of Rodney Anderson's district, all of Dan Branch's district, and part of Kenneth Sheets district. 44 percent Hispanic, 42 percent white, 9 percent black, 5 percent Asian. Obama got 53 percent here giving it a PVI of EVEN. No Incumbent Here.

CD 5 NE Dallas County. Mesquite, Garland, Rowlett, Sachse, part of Richardson. 57 percent white. McCain got 52 percent here. Pete Sessions would face Jeb Hensarling in a primary here.
This is my lean Republican seat. It could possibly become a tossup seat by the end of the decade possibly.

CD 23 Part of HD 117, all of HD 118, all of HD 119, all of HD 120, part of HD 35. Counties: Bexar (partial), Atascosa, Karnes, Live Oak, McMullen, Bee (partial). 55 percent Hispanic, Obama got 56 percent here. Lean Democratic. I believe no incumbent is in this district.

CD 31 Brown, Comanche, Mills, Hamilton, Bosque, Somervell, Hill, Navarro, Henderson, Van Zandt (partial), Coryell, Bell (partial), Williamson (partial). 70 percent white, 64 percent McCain.
I: John Carter

CD 12 rural collin county (east of Trinity north of 380), parts of Denton (northern and western parts), NW Tarrant (basically north of I-30/I-820 and west of I-35W). 80 percent white, 65 percent McCain
I: Kay Granger
Comments: A true exurban district

CD 17 McLennan, Limestone, Freestone, Bell (partial), Falls, Milam, Robertson, Leon (partial), Lee, Burleson, Brazos, Washington, Fayette (partial). 67 percent white, 64 percent McCain.
I: Bill Flores (not sure though)

CD 29 all of HD 134, part of HD 146, all of HD 147, all of HD 145, part of HD 148. In Harris County. 44 percent Hispanic, 30 percent White, 19 percent black, 6 percent Asian, 1 percent Other. 63 percent Obama
I: Gene Green

CD 13 SW Tarrant (Benbrook, White Settlement),  Parker, Palo Pinto, Stephens, Shackelford, Jones, Fisher, Scurry, Borden, Garza, Crosby, Floyd, Hale, Swisher, Briscoe, Hall, Childress, Hardeman, Wilbarger, Wichita (partial), Armstrong, Donley, Collingsworth, Carson, Gray, Wheeler, Hemphill, Roberts, Hutchinson, Moore, Hartley, Dallam, Sherman, Hansford, Ochiltree, Lipscomb. 74 percent white, 71 percent McCain
I: Mac Thornberry
 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 05, 2011, 06:39:57 PM
District 19
Potter, Oldham, Randall, Deaf Smith, Castro, Parmer, Lamb, Bailey, Lubbock, Hockley, Cochran, Lynn, Terry, Yoakum, Dawson, Gaines, Andrews, Martin, Howard, Winkler (partial). 63 percent white, 73 percent McCain
I: Randy Neugebauer
Comments: I don't get why this district is so republican. It borders New Mexico which is a swing/lean blue state

District 3
populated parts of Collin County. Basically everything south of 380 and west of Trinity. 77 percent white, 61 percent McCain
I: Sam Johnson
Comments: May retire soon, Florence Shapiro may run here.

District 18
part of HD 148, all of HD 139, all of HD 140, all of HD 141, some of HD 142. Central and Northern Houston. 45 percent Hispanic, 34 percent black, 18 percent white, 3 percent Asian. 77 percent Obama
I: Sheila Jackson Lee
Comments: Harris County seems to be pretty politically segregated. South of FM 1960 is largely dem, anywhere north of there is fairly republican.

DISTRICT 20
HD 123, HD 125, HD 124, HD 116, part of HD 117. Central Santonio. 66 percent Hispanic. 61 percent Obama
I: Charlie Gonzalez

DISTRICT 26
parts of Richardson, Addison, parts of North Dallas, Carrollton, Coppell, anglo areas of Farmers Branch, Lewisville, the Colony, Lake Dallas, Little Elm, Corinth, Hackberry, Hebron
69 percent white, 58 percent McCain
I: Kenny Marchant vs. Michael Burgess in GOP primary

DISTRICT 10
all of HD 52, all of HD 50, all of HD 46, part of HD 48. Northern Travis, Southeastern Williamson.
59 percent white, 59 percent Obama
I: Michael McCaul
Comments: how does a district so white, vote so democratic?

DISTRICT 1
Bowie, most of Franklin, Titus, Morris, Cass, Camp, Upshur, Marion, Harrison, Gregg, Smith, Rusk, Panola. 70 percent white, 69 percent McCain
I: Louis Gohmert "Gohmert Pyle"

DISTRICT 11
Winkler (partial), Ector, Midland, Glasscock, Sterling, Mitchell (partial), Nolan (partial), Coke, Runnells, Coleman, McCulloch, Concho, Tom Green, Irion, Reagan, San Saba, Lampasas, western Williamson, Burnett, Llano, Mason, Menard, Schleicher, Crockett, Sutton, Kimble, Kerr (partial), Real, Bandera. 68 percent white, 73 percent McCain
I: Mike Conaway

DISTRICT 33
Parts of HD 142, all of HD 143, HD 144, HD 129, parts of HD 128. SE Harris County
49 percent white, 37 percent Hispanic, 9 percent black, 5 percent Asian. 57 percent McCain
I: None
Comments: Areas like Deer Park, LaPorte, Baytown, and parts of Pasadena have all caught Archie Bunker's disease

DISTRICT 7
Piney Point, Hunters Creek, Hilshire, Bunker Hill, Hedwig Villages, parts of Cypress, parts of Katy (entirely south of 290 though) 56 percent white, 59 percent McCain
I: John Culberson






Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 05, 2011, 10:45:58 PM
CD 34
Bastrop, Caldwell, far western Hays, southern Fayette, Gonzales, Lavaca, small area in Colorado, Wilson, DeWitt, Jackson, Victoria, Goliad, Calhoun, Refugio, Aransas, San Patricio, Nueces (partial), Bee (partial). 52 percent white, 59 percent McCain
I: Blake Farenthold (I think)
Comments: I just made Farenthold a hell of a lot more safer assuming he lives in this district

CD 21
Frank Corte Jr and Joe Strauss's districts in Bexar County, Comal, Guadalupe, Kendall, Gillespie, Kerr (partial). 70 percent white, 65 percent McCain
I: Lamar Smith

CD 27
all of HD 38
all of HD 37
all of HD 43
some of HD 34
some of HD 39
all of Cameron County, all of Willacy County, all of Kenedy county, all of Brooks County, all of Jim Hogg, all of Kleberg, all of Jim Wells, parts of Nueces, parts of Hidalgo County. 79 percent hispanic, 60 percent Obama
I: None

CD 2
most of Orange County, Hardin, Liberty, Newton, Jasper, Tyler, Polk, San Jacinto, northern Walker, Madison, Leon (east of I-45), Trinity, Houston, Angelina, San Augustine, Sabine, Shelby, Nacogdoches, Cherokee, Anderson
75 percent white 71 percent McCain
I: None
Comments: "I Like Sugar and I Like Tea but I don't like _______ no sirree" sums up this district

CD 15
part of HD 39, all of HD 36, all of HD 41, part of HD 40. Entirely within Hidalgo County. This district is 88 percent hispanic and Obama got 69 percent here.
I: Ruben Hinojosa

CD 28
Western Hidalgo, Starr, Zapata, Webb, Duval, LaSalle, Frio, Medina, Uvalde, Zavala, Dimmit, Maverick, Kinney, Edwards, Val Verde, Terrell, Pecos, Crane, Upton, Ward, Loving, Brewster, Presidio, Jeff Davis, Reeves, Culberson, Hudspeth, small eastern areas of El Paso County. 84 percent hispanic, 62 percent Obama
I: Henry Cuellar (but Jose Canseco lives here too)

CD 8
most exurban part of Harris County (west of 249, east/north of 290, north of FM 1960), far northern part of Waller County, all of Grimes County, all of Montgomery County, part of Walker County (in Huntsville)

CD 25
parts of HD 48, all of HD 47, all of HD 49, all of HD 51, part of HD 45. counties: Travis (partial), Blanco, Hays (everything except Kyle). 63 percent white, 60 percent Obama.
I: Lloyd Doggett
Comment: How can a 63 percent white district be this democratic?

CD 35
Klein, Spring, Humble, Kingwood, Atascosita. Northern and Eastern parts of Harris County. 65 percent white, 62 percent McCain.
I: Ted Poe

CD 4
Wood, Rains, Hunt, Rockwall, Hunt, Hopkins, Delta, Lamar, Red River, far northern precinct of Franklin, Fannin, Grayson, Cooke, Montague, Wise, Jack, Clay, Archer, Young, far southern precincts of Wichita County, Throckmorton, Baylor, Haskell, Knox, Foard, Stonewall, King, Cottle, Motley, Dickens, Kent. 84 percent white, 73 percent McCain
Comments: The whitest district in Texas. Hall may retire soon; not sure who would replace him



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 05, 2011, 10:53:58 PM
CD 6
eastern Nolan, Taylor, Callahan, Eastland, Erath, Hood, Johnson, Kaufman, NW precincts of Van Zandt. 79 percent white, 73 percent McCain
I: Joe Barton

CD 32
all of HD 90, all of HD 95, all of HD 94, all of HD 96, a few precincts in the southern part of HD 93. Central and Eastern Tarrant County. 49 percent white, 26 percent Hispanic, 20 percent Black, 5 percent Asian. Obama got 54 percent here. Lean Dem
I: None
Comments: Lon Burnam vs. Diane Patrick for this race maybe?

CD 36
eastern and northern areas of Tarrant County. Far eastern parts of Arlington, Euless, Bedford, Hurst, NRH, Haltom City, Watauga, Keller, Southlake, Grapevine. 71 percent white, 61 percent McCain
I: None

CD 16
most of El Paso County. 76 percent Hispanic, 65 percent Obama
I: Silvestre Reyes


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on January 06, 2011, 12:08:48 AM
I've got a map with 8-9 Hispanic districts (depending on whether you want 1 or 2 in Houston) that goes 26 solid GOP, 2 swingish-lean-GOP, and ONLY 8 DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS!!!!  Now, whether this is too ugly to pass muster is another question, and I haven't bothered to check where incumbents live too much.  But here goes:

()

It's not complete, but the rest of the map should be easy.  

Going along the border:

* El Paso district in green.  

* El Paso/Odessa/Midland/Laredo district in pale aquamarine: 65% Hispanic, 56-43 McCain.  Solid GOP.  Midland is split so Conaway might or might not be in this district.  

()

* Midland/San Angelo/San Antonio/border in royal blue: this is a mess but it's not a VRA district so it doesn't matter.  49% Hispanic, 56-43 McCain.  Might be Conaway's or Canseco's, depending on where they live.  

* McAllen/Brownsville in violet-red: 92% Hispanic for Hinojosa.  

* Harlingen-Corpus Christi-Victoria district in spring green for Farenthold: 62% Hispanic, 52-47 McCain.  

()

* McAllen-San Antonio district in Orange for the party-switcher, or maybe for Canseco: 65% Hispanic, 51-48 McCain.  

* north Bexar district in purple for Lamar Smith: 55-44 McCain.  You didn't think there would be a GOP district this compact, did you?  :) 

()

* the Austin-San Antonio pack in greenish grey: 71% Hispanic.  If you get enough heavily Hispanic areas in SA then you can put the black areas of *both* Austin and San Antonio in this district - this is nice if you are trying to crack Austin since the black areas are about 20 points bluer than the Hispanic ones.  

* Bexar county-New Braunfels-San Marcos-Austin + counties northwest in reddish-brown: 55-43 McCain.

* Austin-west Travis/Williamson-rural counties to the northwest in yellow: 55-44 McCain.

* north Austin-Round Rock-Waco outskirts in teal: 55-43 McCain.

* east Austin-Houston exurbs in bronze: 55-44 McCain.

* Corpus Christi-Galveston in maroon: This district still has 107K to go but it's at 56-44 McCain.  

* Abilene-Waco-Killeen-Temple in orange: This district is short 64K right now (not enough to take in Lubbock) but it's at 60-39 McCain.  


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 06, 2011, 11:25:07 AM
I would just say the opposite, actually. Part of the point of Delaymandering was to target Cuellar, who wasn't a member of the House yet.

Cuellar almost knocked off Henry Bonilla, so they wanted to knock down the Hispanic % there and remove Laredo from the 23rd. Targeting Doggett was indirect and mostly a side effect because they needed to make a replacement district.
Actually the goal was to provide a district which Cuellar could win.  Remember that Cuellar had been appointed SOS by Rick Perry (just after Bush had resigned, so it may have even been Bush's decision).

The 2002 election was just an attempt by Laredoans to take back the district that had been taken from them when Albert Bustamante had beaten Chick Kazen in the 1984 primary.

Historical Texas Congressional Districts (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/historical_congress.htm)

 Texas Congressional Map 1934-1956 (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1934_1956.pdf)

Texas gained 3 seats after the 1930 census.  CD 15 is the border district.  Prior to redistricting it had also included the Brush Country.  This was also the first redistricting when Harris, Dallas, and Bexar had their own CD.  CD 8 (Harris County) was only 29% over.

It was after the 1930 Census that Bexar, Dallas, and Harris counties were each entitled to 7 state representatives, and the Texas Constitution was changed to require 100,000 persons for each additional representative.  At the time, each representative represented 38,831 persons.

By 1940, CD 8 was 173% of the statewide average, and by 1950 CD 8 was 219% of the statewide average.  Texas had gained a 22nd representative in 1952, but he was elected at large.

 Texas Congressional Map 1958-1964 (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1958_1964.pdf)

In 1958, the legislature got around to splitting Harris County, which by then had over a million persons.  After the 1960 Census, Texas gained another representative who was elected at large.  Dallas County, CD 5, with 951,000 persons was the most populous district in the country at the time of Wesberry v Sanders (see Appendix to Harlan dissent), 4.40 times the population of the least populous district in Texas.

In 2000 legislative hearings on redistricting, Martin Frost's henchman Gerry Hebert cited this example as being a Texas tradition of protecting incumbents.  In 1960, Joe Pool had run from this district and lost, while garnering almost as many votes as Sam Rayburn and Wright Patman combined.  Unfortunately for Pool, he was running as a Democrat in the only Republican district in Texas, and only got 42% of the vote.  Hebert claimed that the legislature made Pool run at large in 1962, when Texas got another representative, but no redistricting.  In fact, the Democrats were denying representation to Republicans.

 Texas Congressional Map 1966 (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1966.pdf)

 Texas Congressional Map 1968-1970 (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1968_1970.pdf)

Bush v Martin brought one man one vote to Texas.   Bush is George Bush who was Republican State chairman at the time.  In 1966, Bush was elected to Congress from CD 7 which had been moved into Harris County, which increased the Republican representation to 2 from zero.  The other was CD 18 in the panhandle.  The Dallas district had been lost in the 1964 landslide, and Joe Pool won election in CD 3.  After his death, a 3rd Republican was elected.

Notice in particular the 2nd map which implemented one man, one vote, and see what evil the VRA has inflicted since.

There were now 3 CD's wholly within Harris County, 2 within Dallas, and 1 each in Tarrant and Bexar counties.

CD 15 moved to the lower valley, and CD 23 was created south of San Antonio.  In its initial configuration, only 15% of the district was in Bexar County, and about 15% in Webb County.  Chick Kazen of Laredo was elected in this district.

 Texas Congressional Map 1972 (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1972.pdf)

 Texas Congressional Map 1974 (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1974.pdf)

 Texas Congressional Map 1976-1980  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1976_1980.pdf)

The 1972 redistricting pushed CD 23 northward due to slow rural growth.  It appears that the court ordered changes had to do with more rigorous enforcement of equal population, with some really ugly splits (see boundary between 11 and 17 where 3 counties ended up being chopped.

The 24th district was created in Tarrant and Dallas counties, and CD 18 was moved from the Panhandle to Harris County, where Barbara Jordan was elected.

CD 15 was now 35% in Bexar County, and about 16% in Webb County, and continued to be represented by Kazen.

 Texas Congressional Map 1982  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1982.pdf)

 Texas Congressional Map 1984-1990  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1984_1990.pdf)

1980 brought 3 more districts to Texas.  CD 25 was created in Harris County, CD 26 in the Dallas suburbs, and CD 27 the coastal strip of South Texas.

Since South Texas really didn't have the population for a 3rd district, this shifted CD 15 to the west and north, much more into Bexar County.  In the 1984 configuration, Bexar County went to 45% of the district, with Webb now 19%, and loss of much of the district south of San Antonio,   In 1984, Albert Bustamante of San Antonio beat Kazen in the Democratic primary.

 Texas Congressional Map 1992-1996(primary)  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1992_1996P.pdf)

 Texas Congressional Map 1996(general)-2000  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_1996G_2000.pdf)

This was the Frostrosity redistricting.  Egged on by Governor Ann Richards who likened redistricting to hog butchering, and compared a federal court judge to a baby in a high chair, three new districts were hacked out, CD 28 in "South Texas", CD 29 in Harris County, and CD 30 in Dallas County.  Notice all the splits of Midland, Odessa, San Angelo, Lubbock, Amarillo, Tyler, and Nacogdoches.  Besides creating 3 Democratic seats, the Democrats tried to maintain control of other districts, and would eventually lose 5, 9, 12, 13, 14, and 23.

CD 28 of course is a thinly disguised San Antonio district.  Since so much of its population is from Bexar County, it forced a radical shift of CD 23 to the west.  Albert Bustamante also wanted his new mansion in northwest San Antonio to be in his district.  Bexar County was only 27% of the district, and Webb had grown to 24%.  Henry Bonilla beat Bustamante in 1992, in party by running ads showing Bustamante's kited checks from the House Banking Scandal and pictures of his new mansion.

Bush v Vera in 1996 resulted in redrawing the districts in the Dallas and Houston areas, and meant that elections in 13 districts were run as special elections, with the primary results discarded.  This had no impact on South Texas.

 Texas Congressional Map 2002  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_2002.pdf)

The federal district court drew the map in 2002 cleaning up lines to some extend but see CD 4 and CD 5 for example.  The two new districts were CD 31 running from Houston to Round Rock, and CD 32 in Dallas.

CD 23 had only minor adjustments, but now Webb County had 30% of the district, while Bexar was down down to 26%.  When Henry Cuellar challenged Henry Bonilla it was a geographically polarized election more than racially polarized.  But because some of the border counties are so heavily Hispanic you can convince some judges that it was racially polarized.

 Texas Congressional Map 2004-2006 primary  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_2004_2006.pdf)

After the 2001 district court decision invited the legislature to perform its redistricting duties, this map was drawn in 2003.  This map clearly demonstrates that you can't draw 6 border districts.  Henry Cuellar defeated Ciro Rodriguez in the 2004 primary, which simply was another illustration of geographical polarization.

Just for fun, compare CD 27 between the 2002 and 2004 maps.

 Texas Congressional Map 2006 general-2010 (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/pdf/congress_historical/c_2006G_2010.pdf)

These are the districts drawn in 2006.  With Webb placed entirely in CD 28, Bexar County is now 56% of CD 23.  Had it been an ordinary election, Henry Bonilla would have defeated Ciro Gonzalez in 2006, and Quico Canseco did in 2010.

The Supreme Court in 2006 ruled that CD 25 did not count for VRA purposes.  But are CD 15 and CD 28 really any better?  They bypass nearby communities to include far distant population

CD 28: 340 miles (McAllen, Laredo, Floresville, Seguin)
CD 15: 220 miles (McAllen, Alice, Cuero)

CD 23 perhaps could be defended as being "compact" on the basis of having to stick the Trans-Pecos somewhere.  But San Antonio-Del Rio-El Paso is 580 miles and doesn't even include the direct highway route between El Paso and San Antonio, adding another 1-1/2 to a trip that is already 7-1/2 hours.

The first prong of the Gingles Test is that a geographically compact minority can form a majority in a single-member district.  But doesn't that imply that the single-member district should also be compact?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 06, 2011, 11:37:50 AM
In any case, here's the first redistricting bill. It's set up around 32 districts rather than 36, if someone wants to poke through it.

http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?id=562653
It's probably easier to get to from the Texas legislature website.

It is essentially a shell bill.  The Texas Constitution has lots of restrictions on the process of legislation.  In particular, the first month or so of the session is restricted to committee consideration of bills.   So filing a bill permits it to be assigned to a redistricting committee, so that hearings can be held.  You may notice that the bills give the Plan number on the Redviewer site.

I wouldn't be surprised if the congressional and SBOE plans weren't also filed in the House as well.  Traditionally, the two houses redistrict themselves.  The bills then go to the opposite house, where it arranged that they are voted on at the same time.  Doormen are stationed at opposite end of the capital so that they can verify that the two bills are simultaneously gaveled as being approved.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 06, 2011, 12:09:51 PM
Yes, having now just looked at the question (because I was in a state of total confusion myself), apparently Justice Kennedy was vague in Bartlett v Strickland (did he mean to be vague, or was he just sloppy?), about whether the relevant minority class under the VRA was VAP or citizen VAP. His language just says VAP, but a later lower court opined in REYES v. CITY OF FARMERS BRANCH TEXAS (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1499114.html) that  given the context of the relevant phrase in Bartlett, and the fact that the issue of VAP versus citizen VAP was not before the Bartlett court, and  that the whole concept of voting means eligible to vote,  what Justice Kennedy really meant to say was citizen VAP, and not just VAP, and so ruled.

And since that lower court was the 5th Circuit, that holding is the governing authority for the moment for Texas, unless and until Justice Kennedy in a later case rules that no, when he wrote VAP, and did not include the qualifier "citizen," that was because he intended not to. It is all very odd, since the lower court in Bartlett which was appealed to SCOTUS, explicitly discussed the issue of citizen versus non-citizen, and explicitly ruled that the relevant number was citizen VAP, and one cannot not include the non citizen minority VAP in the count.

Fun stuff isn't it?
Lepak v City of Irving, currently pending in federal district court (Northern District, Texas), challenges the notion of whether a city may "voluntarily" draw districts such that the influence of voters in some districts is diluted, even though the districts have the same number of persons, especially when equal population districts can be drawn that do have relatively equal numbers of voters.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 02:01:34 AM
()

Here is Frostrocity Redux. Blue district is District 10. McCaul is the incumbent. 59 percent white, 59 percent Obama. Pink District is District 36. Lloyd Doggett (or as freepers call him Lloyd Dogs#it) is the incumbent. This district is 62% white and Obama got 60 percent here. In a state where McCain won 73 percent of the white vote, I'm surprised Obama could win any districts that are 55-65 percent white.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 02:15:19 AM
()]This is the Rio Grande Valley. District 28 stretches from the western edge of Hidalgo County all the way to the eastern part of El Paso County. Easily one of the largest geographical districts in the U.S. and probably the largest in Texas. This district is 84 percent hispanic and Obama got 63 percent here. Henry Cuellar is the incumbent here.

The orange district takes in most of El Paso County. This district is 76 percent hispanic and Obama got 65 percent here. The incumbent is Silvestre Reyes.

Hidalgo County has grown to the extent that a district can be entirely within it. District 15 (in green) is 88 percent hispanic and Obama got 69 percent here. Ruben Hinojosa is the incumbent.

The district that takes in the far southern coastal counties is District 27. It takes in a small part of Hidalgo County, all of Cameron County, and parts of Nueces County. This district is 79 percent hispanic and Obama got 60 percent here. I split up Nueces County so Farenthold has the option of either running in District 27 and taking a gamble OR running in District 14 and facing Ron Paul in a primary. Farenthold might have a decent shot of unseating Paul as he will be 77 in 2012.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 02:21:39 AM
()

This is the district Farenthold may run in if he wishes to challenge Ron Paul in a primary. This is district 14 in green. It is 53 percent white and McCain got 61 percent here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 02:26:09 AM
()

This is Central Texas. The district in brown is District 31. It basically takes in areas that were in Doggett or McCaul's old district. This district is 70 percent white and McCain got 62 percent here. John Carter should be fine here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 02:48:22 AM
()

District 4 is in silver. Time to pack it in Ralph. Not only has your district been transformed to a mostly rural district to a nearly 100 percent suburban one, but you are 80 odd years old and a turncoat (what ticks me off about you). Instead Taliban Pete would run in this district. He is slightly more safe here in a 60 percent white and 55 percent McCain district.

District 5 is in red. This is 39 percent white 33 percent black 25 percent hispanic and 3 percent Asian. Obama got 68 percent here. Hensarling is the incumbent here.

District 12 is in light blue. Basically takes in the most exurban parts of Denton County, undeveloped areas in western Tarrant County, and some uber wealthy areas in northern Tarrant County like Southlake or River Oaks. Granger is the incumbent here and will be fine in a 82 percent white and 67 percent McCain district.

District 24 is in puke green and takes in the most democratic areas of Tarrant County. This district is 49 percent white 27 percent hispanic 20 percent black and 4 percent Asian. This is an open seat and would probably be a lean R seat. Lon Burnam or Marc Veasey may run here.

District 26 is a green/light green and takes in NW Dallas County, SE Denton, and parts of West Plano in Collin County. Here Kenny Marchant faces off against Michael Burgess in a primary. I'm not sure who would win, both have been in office for about 5-10 years, both are fairly conservative but not a Steve King type loudmouth, and both are around 60 years old. Whoever would win the primary would be reasonably safe in a 68 percent white, 57 percent McCain district.

District 30 is in pink. This is the most hispanic district in the metroplex at 44 percent hispanic. Other races include 29 percent white, 23 percent black, 3 percent Asian, 1 percent Other. Obama got 69 percent here. Eddie Bernice Johnson can run either in District 5 or District 30. If she wants to run here that's fine, but if she wants to run in District 5 and face off against Hensarling that would be fine too. This would lead to an open seat where Rafael Anchia or Roberto Alonzo would probably run.

District 32 is in orange/light orange. It takes in some of northern Dallas and southern Collin county. Although the district is renumbered, Sam Johnson is the incumbent here. This district is 72 percent white and McCain got 58 percent here, which is actually an improvement since the 1980s, when the area in this district was probably the most republican in the country.

District 35 is dark brown in eastern and northern Tarrant County. This district is 67 percent white and McCain got 58 percent here.






Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 12:38:13 PM
()

this is East Texas. The dark purple district is District 34. No incumbent is in here, but a republican will almost certainly represent this district. This district is 74 percent white and McCain got 70 percent here.

The light purple district below it is District 8. Kevin Brady is the incumbent here and is safe in a 76 percent white and 71 percent McCain district.

The light blue district is District 9. This district here has no incumbent depending on whether Ron Paul wants to stay in District 14 or run in this district. If this is an open seat, the right democrat (like Craig Eiland) could win this district. Nick Lampson and Jack Brooks used to represent this district. The sad thing about this district is that it used to be solid democrat and even Dukakis won this area. But this is a racist district. This district is 60 percent white and McCain got 56 percent here.


The silver district is District 11. It basically takes in  part of Waco and runs through Collie Station. This district is 60 percent white and McCain got 59 percent here. Flores is safe here unless Edwards wants his seat back.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 01:00:18 PM
()

This is the Houston Area. Although county results show Dallas County to be more democratic voting than Harris County, this maps confirms that the Houston area is still more democratic as a whole.

Dark Blue District is District 2. Ted Poe is incumbent here. This district is 65 percent white and McCain got 63 percent here

Yellow district is District 18. This district is 42 percent hispanic, 37 percent black, 18 percent white, and 3 percent Asian. Obama got 78 percent here. Sheila Jackson Lee is the incumbent here.

Dark blue district is District 29. Basically takes in some wealthy areas near downtown and also working class areas like NW Pasadena, Jacinto City, Galena Park, South Houston. Gene Green is the incumbent here and is safe in a 54 percent hispanic and 62 percent Obama district.

Silver district is District 25. Probably one of the most diverse districts in the country. 32 percent white, 28 percent hispanic, 26 percent black, 13 percent Asian, 1 percent Other. Obama got 62 percent here. Al Green (no not the singer) is the incumbent here and should be safe, although not as safe as he was in his old district.

Pink District is District 22. This is my big F#ck you to Tom DeLay. A 40 percent white district, 27 percent black, 22 percent hispanic district. Obama got 55 percent here. Lean Dem district, but Pete Olson could survive for a few cycles if he runs as a moderate.

Purple district is District 7. Basically the wealthy areas of midwest Harris County. 60 percent white and 61 percent McCain. Culberson should be fine here.

Light blue district is District 33. Takes in the most exurban and most republican parts of Harris County. 71 percent white, 67 percent McCain district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 06:45:28 PM
()

this is Northeast Texas. The purple district is District 3. It is basically the same as old district 4 except that it doesn't have Rockwall County and has more of Collin County in it. This would be a safe republican district at 79 percent white and 68 percent McCain.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 06:58:22 PM
()

this is a zoomed out area of the state as a whole. Other districts is District 19 in dark pink which is Lubbock Midland area and snakes around to Edwards Plateau. Mike Conaway would face Randy Nawguhbower in a primary. Whoever would win the primary would be safe because the district is 61 percent white and McCain got 73 percent here.

The light pink district is District 6. With the removal of the Fort Worth area, this district becomes much more republican. This district is 77 percent white and McCain got 72 percent here.

The dark purple district west of the metroplex is District 17. This is similar to Charlie Stenholm's old district. He could run here if he wanted too, but he's probably a little old to be making a comeback as he would be 74 in 2012. If he doesn't want to run, a republican will undoubtedly win here. The republicanism in this county is fairly recent. Bill Clinton managed to win a few of the counties in this district. This is the thesis for "What's the Matter with Kansas?" This district is 81 percent white and McCain got 75 percent here.

The light green district east of the metroplex is District 1. This is in many ways the western edge of the deep south. This is Gohmert's district and will be fine in a 76 percent white and a 71 percent McCain district



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 10:25:45 PM
()

This light green district is District 13. This district is 65 percent white and would easily be in the top ten most republican districts in the nation as McCain got 76 percent here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 11, 2011, 10:32:22 PM
()

This is the San Antonio area. Pink district is District 20. This is Charlie Gonzalez's district and is 65 percent hispanic. Obama got 60 percent here.

The gold district is District 23. This is Canseco's district. This district is 55 percent hispanic. Canseco is in the same scenario as Pete Olsen. He would represent a 55 percent Obama district and may survive a few cycles, but the next time a dem wave year comes, he's gone.

The tan district is District 21. This takes in the only strong GOP areas in Bexar County and also some German counties to the NW. Lamar Smith is a lot safer in a 74 percent white and 67 percent McCain district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 16, 2011, 09:02:01 AM
I started out on the premise that an 18-18 Texas oughtn't to be hard if you ignore Blacks' VRA rights, but I got greedy. Guess it's no coincidence that I share a (real life) first name with one former Congressman Frost.

()

Enhances:

Dallas

()

Houston

()

San Antonio with Austin

()

This is far from perfect - there's still a few Democrats marooned in Dallas area Republican districts, there's still far too few Republicans trapped in Houston area Democratic districts, and those border districts slice it far too close - I had 50.5% Obama as a minimum goal, but in the end I decided I didn't want to draw that necessary tentacle into Austin or revisit the El Paso split, and was satisfied with a plurality in two of them. :D

CD2 Beaumont and Galveston, 52% Obama, 45% white, 29% black, 21% hispanic
CD5 SE Dallas and adjoining rural parts, 52% Obama, 60% white
CD7 NW Houston, 55% Obama, 38% white, 34% hispanic, 20% black
CD9 SW Houston, 55% Obama, 32% white, 30% hispanic, 25% black
CD11 a new additional bacon strip to go between Cuellar and Hinojosa, 50% Obama, 62% hispanic
CD12 Fort Worth, 55% Obama, 48% white, 28% hispanic, 19% black
CD15 made a lot more erose, 52% Obama, 69% hispanic
CD16 El Paso to Odessa, 55% Obama, 66% hispanic
CD18 Central Houston, 56% Obama, 49% white, 24% black, 22% hispanic
CD20 WC San Antonio, 51% Obama, 53% hispanic
CD21 EC San Antonio, 51% Obama, 47% hispanic, 40% white
CD22 South Houston, a whopping 62% Obama, 36% white, 33% black, 21% hispanic
CD23 still the huge southwestern district, but now with no San Antonio, only half of Laredo, but with Midland, half of Odessa, half of Abilene and a much larger share of El Paso. 51% Obama, 71% hispanic
CD25 roughly where it was, 55% Obama, 57% white
CD27 roughly as is, 52% Obama, 67% hispanic
CD28 now stretching all the way from Brownsville to Abilene. 53% Obama, 75% hispanic
CD29 East Houston, 55% Obama, 59% hispanic
CD30 East Dallas, 54% Obama, 48% white, 26% hispanic, 22% black
CD31 NW Austin, Round Rock, 52% Obama, 75% white
CD32 Central Dallas, 53% Obama, 45% white, 34% hispanic
CD33 West Dallas County, 53% Obama, 42% white, 39% hispanic
CD34 NE Austin and points north, 56% Obama, 53% white

Oh yeah, Republicans get districts too.
CD1 East Texas, 70% McCain
CD2 Collin County, 61% McCain
CD4 NE Texas, 69% McCain
CD6 suburban Forth Worth, 59% McCain
CD8 Montgomery County and stuff, 70% McCain
CD10 NW Houston and points beyond, 67% McCain
CD13 NW Texas, 76% McCain
CD14 Ronpaulland, 67% McCain
CD17 West Central Texas, 74% McCain
CD19 NW Texas, 72% McCain
CD24 Tarrant/Denton, 63% McCain
CD26 NW Dallas Metro, 68% McCain
CD35 from the southern outskirts of Dallas to Orange County, 70% McCain
CD36 and to think that this actually includes all of Waco. 68% McCain


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on January 16, 2011, 12:50:36 PM
I started out on the premise that an 18-18 Texas oughtn't to be hard if you ignore Blacks' VRA rights, but I got greedy. Guess it's no coincidence that I share a (real life) first name with one former Congressman Frost.

Martin is a name used in Germany? I thought it was French.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 16, 2011, 02:07:44 PM
I started out on the premise that an 18-18 Texas oughtn't to be hard if you ignore Blacks' VRA rights, but I got greedy. Guess it's no coincidence that I share a (real life) first name with one former Congressman Frost.

Martin is a name used in Germany?
Ever heard of Luther?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on January 16, 2011, 04:45:07 PM
I started out on the premise that an 18-18 Texas oughtn't to be hard if you ignore Blacks' VRA rights, but I got greedy. Guess it's no coincidence that I share a (real life) first name with one former Congressman Frost.

Martin is a name used in Germany?
Ever heard of Luther?

Do you mean the German churchman or the badly written TV cop show?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 16, 2011, 05:50:25 PM
I meant Luther Vandross, of course.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on January 16, 2011, 06:03:03 PM
I started out on the premise that an 18-18 Texas oughtn't to be hard if you ignore Blacks' VRA rights, but I got greedy. Guess it's no coincidence that I share a (real life) first name with one former Congressman Frost.

Martin is a name used in Germany?
Ever heard of Luther?

Hmmmm, I don't think or remember things well immediately after waking up.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 17, 2011, 11:15:10 PM
This is the last map I'm going to do until the new numbers come out.  It is really four maps, all of which "pack" Austin, one based on an Odessa-San Antonio TX-23 with 63% Hispanic and no Webb intrusion, the second based on an Odessa-Midland-Laredo TX-23 with 63% Hispanic and a Webb split.  The other two maps give TX-27 60% Hispanic instead of 63% Hispanic with this configuration.

Also, I saw an earlier comment on precincts after new numbers come out - Texas counties almost never redraw their precincts, rather they split current precincts up (when they become too big, I guess).  I should know why but I don't.

Goals:
1) 24 safe GOP seats (McCain 60.00% or greater)
2) 10 safe DEM seats (Obama packs)
3) 2 marginal GOP seats (TX-23 = McCain 55%; TX-27 = McCain 52% (if 63% Hispanic) or McCain 54% (if 60% Hispanic)
4) All incumbents get a seat.  (Exceptions: Canseco has to go into TX-36, where his greatest danger will be an Anglo GOP.  In the Odessa-Midland-Laredo TX-23, Conaway has to go into TX-23 (unless he's scared, and he may well be - he would certainly b!tch), leaving TX-11 open)
5) 8 Hispanic-Majority seats, 2 Black-majority seats, 2 Minority-Majority seats.
6) No safe GOP seat has greater than 29.50% Hispanic population to avoid claims of dilution. (Exception: In the Odessa-Midland-Laredo TX-23 with TX-27 = 60% Hispanic, TX-14 (Paul) has 30.90% Hispanic.  It would require a major redesign of a lot of other Houston area seats (and possibly TX-17 and TX-21) to get this one right, so I passed.  Let them complain - it doesn't make any difference as to the result in TX-14).
7) All deviations under 1,000.

TX-X = Odessa only, TX-23 and TX-27 = 63% Hispanic
TX-Xa = Odessa + Midland, TX-23 and TX-27 = 63% Hispanic
TX-Xb = Odessa only, TX-27= 60% Hispanic
TX-Xc = Odessa + Midland, TX-27 = 60% Hispanic

I think that's about it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 17, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
CODE
a) Incumbent
b) McCain %, Obama %
c) White %, Black %, Hispanic %, Asian %, Other %
d) Comment

()
TX-1
a) Gohmert
b) McCain 69, Obama 30 (previous McCain 69, Obama 31)
c) White 70, Black 20, Hispanic 8, Asian 2
d) Basically the same as before, except it takes in Texarkana now and removes parts south.

()
TX-2
a) Poe
b) McCain 63, Obama 36 (previous McCain 60, Obama 40)
c) White 63, Hispanic 24, Black 8, Asian 5
d) Now a Harris County only seat, it wraps around the city of Houston, with the most important GOP parts being in NW Houston.  I believe Poe lives here; if not, he lives in neighboring TX-35, no biggie.

()
TX-3
a) Johnson
b) McCain 61 (60.95), Obama 38 (previous McCain 57, Obama 42)
c) White 77, Hispanic 9, Asian 9, Black 5
d) Now a Collin County only seat, it stretches much further north to pick up virgin suburban territory.

()
TX-4
a) Hall
b) McCain 64, Obama 35 (previous McCain 69, Obama 30)
c) White 66, Hispanic 16, Black 12, Asian 5
d) Hall's CD moves away from east Texas to pick up some inner Dallas suburbs, including Garland.  Splitting these suburbs east of US-75 is key to making a good Dallas gerrymander.

()
TX-5
a) Hensarling
b) McCain 62, Obama 37 (previous McCain 63, Obama 36)
c) White 71, Hispanic 15, Black 12, Asian 3
d) Hensarling's CD shifts further west to pick up some more inner Dallas suburbs and even some Waco suburbs.  I'm pretty sure he lives here.  Anyway, the key here is keeping fast-growing Kaufman County in its midst.

()
TX-6
a) Barton
b) McCain 61 (61.16), Obama 38 (previous McCain 60, Obama 40)
c) White 74, Hispanic 14, Black 9, Asian 4
d) The areas in Tarrant and Dallas County are quite marginal (mostly taken from TX-24).  The areas in the three counties to the South are not.

()
TX-7 (Odessa only)
a) Culberson
b) McCain 61 (61.00), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 64, Hispanic 23, Asian 8, Black 5
d) Pushing the McCain % up is achieved by taking in virgin suburban territory in NW Houston where whitey is.

()
TX-7a & TX-7c (Odessa + Midland)
a) Culberson
b) McCain 61 (60.56), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 64, Hispanic 23, Asian 8, Black 5
d) The only change here is made because TX-22 needed a little more McCain %.

()
TX-7b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Culberson
b) McCain 61 (60.50), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 63, Hispanic 23, Asian 8, Black 5
d) Ditto with TX-7a.

()
TX-8
a) Brady
b) McCain 64, Obama 35 (previous McCain 74, Obama 26)
c) White 70, Black 16, Hispanic 11, Asian 3
d) TX-8 moves to take in all old parts of TX-2 (including Jefferson County) and Montgomery is split in half.  So is the city of Galveston (not necessary, but amusing).  Montgomery is too useful for the GOP not to split it up.  :P

()
TX-9
a) Green
b) Obama 73, McCain 27 (previous Obama 77, McCain 23)
c) Hispanic 34, Hispanic 32, White 21, Asian 13, Other 1
d) Very similar to before, except it heads further into Fort Bend.

()
TX-10 & TX-10b (Odessa only)
a) McCaul
b) McCain 61 (60.58), Obama 38 (previous McCain 55, Obama 44)
c) White 76, Hispanic 18, Asian 4, Black 3
d) Instead of heading east this time, we head west to pick up sizable chunks of German Texas, San Angelo and assorted rural counties.  And we end up with a safer CD.  I think I have McCaul, but if not, he can just move somewhere else in Austin.

()
TX-10a & TX-10c (Odessa + Midland)
a) McCaul
b) McCain 60 (60.00), Obama 39 (previous McCain 55, Obama 44)
c) White 76, Hispanic 17, Asian 4, Black 2
d) Minor changes - the CD moves further south to pick up even more of German Texas.

()
TX-11 (Odessa only)
a) Conaway
b) McCain 68, Obama 31 (previous McCain 76, Obama 24)
c) White 64, Hispanic 20, Black 13, Asian 3, Other 1
d) This fajita strip is compressed a bit, and makes sure to pick up Fort Hood/Killeen to the east.

()
TX-11a (Odessa + Midland)
a) None
b) McCain 68, Obama 31 (previous McCain 76, Obama 24)
c) White 64, Hispanic 20, Black 12, Asian 3, Other 1
d) In exchange for dropping Midland, a whole bunch of rural counties are picked up, making Abilene the population center of the CD.  Conaway lives in TX-23 in this makeup, so no incumbent!

()
TX-12
a) Granger
b) McCain 62, Obama 38 (previous McCain 63, Obama 36)
c) White 74, Hispanic 14, Black 9, Asian 4
d) Picks up territory from TX-6 and TX-13, in exchange for dropping Wise County.  In actuality, this is rather cosmetic.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 17, 2011, 11:22:08 PM
()
TX-13
a) Thornberry
b) McCain 71, Obama 28 (previous McCain 77, Obama 23)
c) White 79, Hispanic 11, Black 7, Asian 3
d) I figure if we have border districts to the south, why not have a border district in the north.  :P

()
TX-14 (Odessa only)
a) Paul
b) McCain 63, Obama 36 (previous McCain 66, Obama 33)
c) White 60, Hispanic 29 (29.49), Black 7, Asian 3
d) In order to maximize McCain votes in TX-27, you have to split Corpus Christi and San Patricio - there's basically no way around it.  The McCain % in TX-14 is never the problem, since all of Brazoria County is included in TX-14 this time, but the Hispanic % is a bit high for my tastes.  Still pretty compact.

()
TX-14a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Paul
b) McCain 64, Obama 35 (previous McCain 66, Obama 33)
c) White 60, Hispanic 29 (29.47), Black 7, Asian 3
d) The Odessa-Midland-Laredo TX-23 pushes everything further east to get under 29.50% Hispanic.

()
TX-14b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Paul
b) McCain 64, Obama 35 (previous McCain 66, Obama 33)
c) White 60, Hispanic 29 (29.48), Black 8, Asian 3
d) Now things get ugly as the necessary expansion of TX-27 east to pick up white areas gathers steam.

()
TX-14c (Odessa + Midland), TX-27 = 60%)
a) Paul
b) McCain 64, Obama 36 (previous McCain 66, Obama 33)
c) White 58, Hispanic 31 (30.90), Black 7, Asian 3
d) When I realized that I'd have to make major changes to the Houston suburbs to get it down to 29.50% Hispanic, I stopped.  It can be done, however.

()
TX-15 (Odessa only)
a) Hinojosa
b) Obama 70, McCain 29 (previous Obama 60, McCain 40)
c) Hispanic 88, White 11, Asian 1
d) Not that bad really.  Most of the population is Hidalgo County and Hinojosa's home is here too.  Brownsville is included.  Not Harlingen - for rather obvious reasons (it has whites).

()
TX-15a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Hinojosa
b) Obama 70, McCain 29 (previous Obama 60, McCain 40)
c) Hispanic 88, White 11, Asian 1
d) Changes are cosmetic.

()
TX-15b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Hinojosa
b) Obama 71, McCain 28 (previous Obama 60, McCain 40)
c) Hispanic 89, White 10, Asian 1
d) Not much change. Yawn.

()
TX-15c (Odessa + Midland, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Hinojosa
b) Obama 72, McCain 27 (previous Obama 60, McCain 40)
c) Hispanic 90, White 9, Asian 1
d) No changes worth mentioning.

()
TX-16
a) Reyes
b) Obama 65, McCain 34 (previous Obama 66, McCain 34)
c) Hispanic 77, White 18, Black 3, Asian 2, Other 1
d) Basically the same as before.  There is really no reason to play around with El Paso, except at the margins, unless you want to do something like Martin did.

()
TX-17 (Odessa only)
a) Flores
b) McCain 65, Obama 34 (previous McCain 67, Obama 32)
c) White 68, Hispanic 16, Black 13, Asian 3
d) This complete redesign of TX-17 takes advantage of Flores' base to swipe a bit of Austin.  The northern half of Montgomery County is added for good measure, but the heart of the CD will be Bryan-College Station.

()
TX-17a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Flores
b) McCain 64, Obama 34 (previous McCain 67, Obama 32)
c) White 67, Hispanic 17, Black 13, Asian 3
d) Changes are cosmetic to pick up a few more Hispanics from TX-21.

()
TX-17b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Flores
b) McCain 64, Obama 35 (previous McCain 67, Obama 32)
c) White 66, Hispanic 18, Black 13, Asian 3
d) The requirements of TX-14 make this iteration a bit ugly.  Kinda looks like a misshapened bat.

()
TX-17c (Odessa + Midland, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Flores
b) McCain 64, Obama 35 (previous McCain 67, Obama 32)
c) White 67, Hispanic 17, Black 13, Asian 3
d) Only cosmetic changes here.  Major changes would have been required to get TX-14 down to 29.50%, which I didn't do.

()
TX-18
a) Lee
b) Obama 84, McCain 15 (previous Obama 77, McCain 22)
c) Black 53, Hispanic 26, White 16, Asian 4, Other 1
d) This is about as black as I can make the annoying b!tch's CD without making it very ugly.

()
TX-19 & TX=19b (Odessa only)
a) Neugebauer
b) McCain 73, Obama 26 (previous McCain 72, Obama 27)
c) White 64, Hispanic 28, Black 6, Asian 2
d) So I decided to do something which will never happen in real life - the Amarillo and Lubbock CD!

()
TX-19a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Neugebauer
b) McCain 73, Obama 26 (previous McCain 72, Obama 27)
c) White 64, Hispanic 28, Black 6, Asian 2
d) The change here is a county in the south of the CD or something.  No big deal.

()
TX-20
a) Gonzalez
b) Obama 68, McCain 31 (previous Obama 63, McCain 36)
c) Hispanic 68, White 19, Black 10, Asian 2, Other 1
d) TX-20 picks up a chunk of the former TX-23 areas, as required.

()
TX-21 (Odessa only)
a) Smith
b) McCain 61 (60.76), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 61, Hispanic 29 (29.46), Black 7, Asian 3
d) TX-21 is radically altered in these two maps.  Instead of picking up Austin and German Texas, this version goes southeast to pick up Victoria.  Which actually works quite nicely, as the San Antonio suburbs will still control.

()
TX-21a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Smith
b) McCain 61 (60.78), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 60, Hispanic 29 (29.48), Black 7, Asian 3
d) Changes are cosmetic.

()
TX-21b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Smith
b) McCain 61 (60.87), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 61, Hispanic 29 (29.47), Black 7, Asian 3
d) Extends "more literally" to the southeast, but the actual changes really don't mean much.

()
TX-21c (Odessa + Midland, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Smith
b) McCain 61 (60.97), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 60, Hispanic 29 (29.45), Black 7, Asian 3
d) Changes are still cosmetic, actually.

()
TX-22 (Odessa only)
a) Olson
b) McCain 61 (60.52), Obama 38 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 62, Hispanic 19, Asian 11, Black 9
d) A nicely compact CD which takes in all of Fort Bend not in TX-9 and some west Houston suburbs.  Of all of the GOP CDs, this one would worry me the most in the future, but not *that* much.

()
TX-22a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Olson
b) McCain 60 (60.10), Obama 39 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 62, Hispanic 19, Asian 11, Black 9
d) The changes address problems in TX-14, but are still cosmetic.

()
TX-22b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Olson
b) McCain 60 (60.18), Obama 39 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 62, Hispanic 19, Asian 11, Black 9
d) Changes are cosmetic.

()
TX-22c (Odessa + Midland, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Olson
b) McCain 60 (60.00), Obama 39 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 62, Hispanic 19, Asian 11, Black 9
d) Keeps getting uglier, but the changes really aren't important.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 17, 2011, 11:26:45 PM
()
TX-23 (Odessa only)
a) Open
b) McCain 55 (55.26), Obama 44 (previous Obama 51, McCain 48)
c) Hispanic 63 (63.20), White 33, Black 3, Asian 1
d) In the Odessa-only version, TX-23 picks up a number of rural counties north of Odessa (almost all the way to Lubbock) along the border, and then goes east at Del Rio to pick up some of the inner San Antonio Hispanic precincts.  I consider this version a safer VRA test b/c Odessa and San Antonio have been combined in past CDs and are presently combined in Senate District 19.  Going north into west Texas will probably be complained about, but there are Hispanics here (of course, they vote more GOP than the ones in Maverick County, but let the challenge occur).  I do not, however, consider this a safer GOP hold than version 2 because 1) there will be no incumbent; 2) Odessa is not growing (unlike Midland or Laredo); 3) the Dems have a potential very dangerous candidate in Pete Gallego in the Trans-Pecos, who represents a lot of the *swing* area of this CD (his state Rep seat is entirely included - note that I don't include Uresti in this description, as he would need much more of Hispanic Bexar to win).

()
TX-23a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Conaway
b) McCain 55 (54.83), Obama 44 (previous Obama 51, McCain 48)
c) Hispanic 63 (63.04), White 32, Black 3, Asian 1
d) In this version, all of San Antonio, strongly GOP Uvalde and Medina County is moved to TX-28 and TX-36 in exchange for Midland, Maverick County and a little over half of Webb.  Thus, this becomes a much more Hispanic version of the original DeLay-mander.  The problem is that you have to convince Conaway to take a potential problem seat - although Odessa and Midland accounts for about a fourth of the population and about a third of the votes.  Cuellar will probably take the safe road - and run in the southern Webb seat.  Of course, I view this one as more VRA problematic.  You can get it down to 60% and avoid the Webb split, but I didn't make that one.

()
TX-24
a) Marchant
b) McCain 62, Obama 37 (McCain 55, Obama 44)
c) White 72, Hispanic 13, Asian 8, Black 6
d) A nice compact DFW CD that swings west into GOP Tarrant County territory.  Removed most of the rest of the CD into new TX-33.

()
TX-25
a) Doggett
b) Obama 74, McCain 24 (previous Obama 59, McCain 40)
c) White 47, Hispanic 34, Black 12, Asian 6
d) Packed every Austin Democrat into this CD as I thought I could.

()
TX-26
a) Burgess
b) McCain 64, Obama 35 (previous McCain 58, Obama 41)
c) White 77, Hispanic 12, Asian 5, Black 5
d) This DFW CD snakes around a little bit, but is still basically Denton and Tarrant County-based.  Getting rid of minority precincts makes it even more GOP, as expected.

()
TX-27 (Odessa only)
a) Farenthold
b) McCain 52 (52.07), Obama 47 (previous Obama 53, McCain 46)
c) Hispanic 63 (63.18), White 33, Asian 2, Black 2
d) I combed through literally every precinct in Hidalgo and Cameron counties looking for the best Hispanic-GOP ratios, and this is the best I could do, after recognizing that getting to Brownsville is not worth it.  And then I had to do the same for Nueces, splitting the thing in two.  And this is still about the best I can do.  Hey, it's still a lot better than Obama 53, McCain 46.

()
TX-27a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Farenthold
b) McCain 52 (52.18), Obama 47 (previous Obama 53, McCain 46)
c) Hispanic 63 (63.23), White 32, Asian 2, Black 2
d) Very similar, except moved to the east because of TX-28.  I also think my division is slightly better this time (by hundredths of percentage points, I know, but still...)

()
TX-27b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Farenthold
b) McCain 54 (54.17), Obama 45 (previous Obama 53, McCain 46)
c) Hispanic 60 (60.27), White 36, Asian 2, Black 2
d) Now it extends further to the east to take in some more white precincts.  Yawn.  Percentage is up to 54%, but that's about the best you can do.

()
TX-27c (Odessa + Midland, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Farenthold
b) McCain 54 (53.88), Obama 45 (previous Obama 53, McCain 46)
c) Hispanic 60 (60.15), White 35, Asian 2, Black 2
d) Last iteration of this CD looks the cleanest, actually.

()
TX-28 (Odessa only)
a) Cuellar
b) Obama 74, McCain 25 (previous Obama 56, McCain 44)
c) Hispanic 93, White 6, Black 1
d) This version of TX-28 looks rather clean, actually.  A nice border CD, and also much safer than before, btw.

()
TX-28a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Cuellar
b) Obama 72, McCain 28 (previous Obama 56, McCain 44)
c) Hispanic 89, White 9, Asian 1, Black 1
d) Lots of good visual imagery here.  Consider this the son of DeLay-mander, as half of Webb County extends north to take in a number of Bexar County barrio precincts (but not enough for Ciro to win).

()
TX-28b (Odessa only, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Cuellar
b) Obama 74, McCain 26 (previous Obama 56, McCain 44)
c) Hispanic 92, White 7, Asian 1
d) Basically the same as original, with little changes to fit the needs of TX-27.

()
TX-28c (Odessa + Midland, TX-27 = 60%)
a) Cuellar
b) Obama 71, McCain 28 (previous Obama 56, McCain 44)
c) Hispanic 89, White 10, Asian 1, Black 1
d) Same as original, with changes for TX-27's sake.

()
TX-29
a) Green
b) Obama 68, McCain 32 (Obama 62, McCain 38)
c) Hispanic 67, White 18, Black 12, Asian 3
d) Not really much different than before, except more Democratic.

()
TX-30
a) Johnson
b) Obama 82, McCain 17 (previous Obama 82, McCain 18)
c) Black 51, White 25, Hispanic 20, Asian 3
d) Now extends to reach the blacks in Tarrant County.  Also now majority-black.

()
TX-31
a) Carter
b) McCain 60 (60.01), Obama 39 (previous McCain 58, Obama 42)
c) White 74, Hispanic 15, Black 7, Asian 3
d) Not really much different than before, except Killeen and Fort Hood (and all points north are removed) in exchange for a couple of counties to the south.  Williamson County remains in full here, it's kind of hard to separate Carter from it without hurting him (since he lives in Round Rock).

()
TX-32
a) Sessions
b) McCain 60 (60.07), Obama 39 (previous McCain 53, Obama 46)
c) White 71, Hispanic 16, Asian 6, Black 6
d) Getting rid of the Hispanic precincts does wonders to the numbers.  Also adding half of Collin County, half of Grayson County and some of Denton works wonders as well.

()
TX-33
a) None
b) Obama 69, McCain 30
c) Hispanic 63 (63.16), White 21, Black 13, Asian 3
d) What an ugly looking strip of Hispanic minority-majority land.

()
TX-34
a) None
b) McCain 67, Obama 32
c) White 71, Black 16, Hispanic 11, Asian 2
d) The heart of Democratic Waco, with Nacogdoches and Lufkin included.  Let's see Chet Edwards make a comeback here!

()
TX-35
a) None
b) McCain 64, Obama 36
c) White 67, Hispanic 18, Black 10, Asian 5
d) Poe may be here, he may be in TX-2, whichever...  Kingwood plus Pasadena suburbs plus all of the parts of Galveston County where white people from Houston will probably head = safe GOP.

()
TX-36 (Odessa only)
a) Canseco
b) McCain 60 (60.05), Obama 39
c) White 66, Hispanic 27, Asian 3, Black 3
d) NW San Antonio plus German Texas and the more Republican parts of Hays County (well, it does include Texas State, so not exactly).  This is where Canseco resides (I'm pretty sure), so all he has to fear is an Anglo.  I made this a real San Antonio-centered CD to eliminate that possibility as much as possible while keeping the CD safe GOP.

()
TX-36a (Odessa + Midland)
a) Canseco
b) McCain 60 (60.10), Obama 39
c) White 65, Hispanic 28, Asian 3, Black 3
d) Replace German Texas for GOP Medina and Uvalde County.  Yawn.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 17, 2011, 11:28:46 PM
Would you post your entire map Sam, perhaps two maps, one for east Texas and one for the west, since Texas is so big?  Or you could do two that you append together like I did for Indiana; I have become so accomplished at that, that you can hardly see that I appended two screen shots together.

Or you could email me your Dave Bradlee drf data file, and I could put them up for you, making them your mappie with zooms all look so pretty - just gorgeous really. :)

I'll do that - tomorrow.  It will also require more like five to ten maps, not two.  :)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on January 17, 2011, 11:35:36 PM
OK, but I suggest that you darken the colors by reducing the opacity level. Color choices for each CD are also important. But then you do have an artistic side I know.  You probably are a closet metrosexual. :P


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on January 17, 2011, 11:42:32 PM
So even this supposed uber-gerrymander creates a new Hispanic majority seat? Not that I'm surprised though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 18, 2011, 12:00:46 AM
OK, but I suggest that you darken the colors by reducing the opacity level. Color choices for each CD are also important. But then you do have an artistic side I know.  You probably are a closet metrosexual. :P

My artistic side is completely musical and theatrical.  I have below zero visual sense though, really.  I go to the museum, but I can barely draw stick figures.  If you want to redesign the thing, feel free.

And I'm about as far from a metrosexual as possible.  As has been noted by many friends on many occasions.  :P


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 18, 2011, 12:13:07 AM
So even this supposed uber-gerrymander creates a new Hispanic majority seat? Not that I'm surprised though.

You basically have to create one new Hispanic seat in Dallas - some GOP seats will be far too marginal without it.  You can create another San Antonio-Austin one to f-ck Doggett, but it's not necessary.  More than that is probably not going to be needed - I don't think Al Green's seat needs to be Hispanic-majority, and I don't think it can be anyway.

Let's face it - the previous map was a 21-10 GOP gerrymander with one marginal (TX-23).  GOPers wouldn't have considered Ortiz marginal in prior years.  The one the courts struck down was meant to be 22-10 GOP.

I don't really have to see the new Census numbers to know that 24 GOP seats can be created with almost any halfway competent gerrymander - and they can be ultra-safe too.  The problem is after that with the VRA.  It's nearly impossible to get it to 8 DEM seats under the VRA without having the courts strike down your map and I don't think trying to keep them to 9 seats will work either - playing with South Texas is rather problematic, you need decent margins, it's not really worth it under 52% McCain. 

So you pack ten Dems (the 9 already there, plus the new Dallas seat) and create the two most favorable Hispanic-majority seats you can (since you already hold two of them) for TX-23 and TX-27.  This is what is done above.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on January 18, 2011, 12:36:33 AM
I mean I kind of figured that, but it results in the new seats being 3-1 GOP, which is only a +2. Then again shoring up Farenthold and making a Rodriguez comeback impossible might count as two more seats.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 18, 2011, 12:49:22 AM
I mean I kind of figured that, but it results in the new seats being 3-1 GOP, which is only a +2. Then again shoring up Farenthold and making a Rodriguez comeback impossible might count as two more seats.

I just don't think the Texas GOP can make all four new seats GOP with the VRA and all.  You basically have to shore up Farenthold (South Texas seats tend to act 2-4 points Dem PVI than they say, and I assume his seat is 2008 iteration only (ignoring 2004), meaning R/D+0, basically).  And I can't see how they think Canseco's seat will give you the "right" result every time.  It has to be majority Hispanic, and adding more Bexar is not going to up the percentage as much as you like - which is why the radical rethink.  Plus, the majority Hispanic CD in Dallas fixes a lot of problems for the next decade, which is why it'll be done.

I have to think that the Texas GOP basically views Farenthold's seat as a gift, but always thought that Canseco's seat should have been theirs.  Therefore, since the prior map is basically drawn as a 22-10 gerrymander with a lucky bounce (Farenthold), a 26-10 gerrymander should be viewed as a likely end game and not a negative.  But who knows.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 18, 2011, 02:00:48 AM
Also, I saw an earlier comment on precincts after new numbers come out - Texas counties almost never redraw their precincts, rather they split current precincts up (when they become too big, I guess).  I should know why but I don't.
Changes in election precincts and polling places are a change in voting procedure which must be precleared under Section 5 of the VRA.  That means you have to hire very expensive lawyers to justify the change.

Texas election law requires that election precincts not cross, congressional district, legislative district, SBOE district, commissioner precinct, justice of the peace precinct boundaries, and council districts in large cities.

The rule about commissioner precincts is why every county in Texas, even Loving, has at least 4 election precincts.  After the 1990s redistricting, the number of precincts in Harris County roughly doubled, because the congressional and the two legislative redistricting were done independently using the census geography which only shows number of people and race, and not whether a boundary makes sense.  There were precincts with 5 voters because where one district line zigged another zagged.  The Comical would do interviews with election judges in their carport which served as the polling place, and they would say that they had voted when the polls opened, and their neighbor Joe would come over after work, and the other voter had moved.

Since the 1990s redistricting was based on race, it is likely that any area on one side of a line had a different racial makeup than those on the other side.  So if you had a nice rectangular precinct on one side of the road, and another on the other side that was split based on race, you won't want to explain to the USDOJ why you took this nice rectangular precinct on one side of the road and merged it with this odd shaped finger that happened to be 70% minority.  You would simply split the other precinct to conform to the legislatively mandated district lines.

One reasons that the the 1990s lines were so irregular was that the lines had been drawn to pick up apartment complexes for inclusion in the Ben Reyes or Craig Washington districts, and to separate them from the single family homes in the Bill Archer district.  Because Houston doesn't have zoning, there can be apartments in the the middle of single-family residential, and these were connected in an attempt to include the fewest houses.

After the most egregious districts (congressional and senate) were overturned, there was the possibility of merging some precincts back together, and that was done in some cases.  The number of precincts in Harris County is much less than the peak.  It went from around 666 to 1300, and now is somewhere around 850.  The reason that Harris County precinct numbers don't make any sense is that when precincts are merged, the highest number is retired.  And then when they need a new one, they will just take the lowest available.

During the 2000s redistricting, an effort was made to follow existing election precinct boundaries.  While this tended not to make matters worse, it didn't necessarily improve things, because some precinct boundaries are fossilized remains of the 1990s racial divisions.

Currently, elections precincts are limited to a maximum of 5000 voters.  In the past, this maximum this number based on the size of the county.  Montgomery County had to redo most their election precincts when their population reached a certain threshold.  This maximum may not be effectively as large as it used to be, because of it become harder to purge registration lists.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 18, 2011, 04:37:07 AM
this is why I don't like what Martin Frost, Tom DeLay or even Sam Spade did to the maps. What they're doing is basically making apartheid districts. It Frost's case it was uber white districts and in Spade and DeLay's case it is uber Hispanic and black districts.

If you want to see congressional districts that are as close as possible to what they are now, come and see my new districts on this website:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/17/163956/012


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 18, 2011, 06:25:36 AM
Sam, I think that your DFW minority districts are not as VRA-proof as the TX GOP might want. This provides more margin to correct for the VAP, and even citizen VAP if needed. This will be especially needed since this would go through the Obama DOJ. So, here's my bullet-proof minority districts for the Metroplex.

()

CD 30:
White 27%, Black 53%, Asian 3%, Hispanic 16%
Obama 79%, McCain 20%

CD 33:
White 21%, Black 9%, Asian 3%, Hispanic 66%
Obama 66%, McCain 33%

I don't think GOP would have any problem drawing those districts, even though they are *butt ugly* (to put it mildly).  I didn't do it, because, odd as it may sound, I'm aiming for something that looks a bit nicer.

Here's what I'm going to point out - Texas is really looking for fights with the Feds right now, and vice versa.  The reason why I'm drawing the maps that raise questions is because Texas lawmakers are almost certainly going to produce one based on their interpretation of LULAC v. Perry that comes as close to skirting the lines as they think possible.

In particular, they are going to read LULAC v. Perry as saying that 'so long as there is 50%+1 Latino citizen VAP, the first Gingles threshold requirement is not met, and, therefore, there is no Section 2 violation.'  TX-23, in that instance had 55% Latino population, 50% VAP and 46% citizen VAP.  TX-23 is probably going to be a tad lower on the citizen VAP than other parts of Texas, but if we have 59% to 60% Latino population, there will be 50%+1 citizen VAP.

And when the Obama Justice Dept. blocks this map through Section 5, they're going to argue the unconstitutionality of the Section 5, which the Court successfully ignored in Northwest Austin Municipal District No.1 v. Holder, but left quite a cautious tone on its continued viability (of course, Roberts does not speak for Kennedy, naturally)..

You'll see this game come to fruition in the next couple of maps I draw.

EDIT:  I see Torie's new post which suggests question between citizen VAP and regular VAP.  I am almost certain it is citizen VAP, just having read the ruling again before making the above post, but I am trying to show the number where 50%+1 citizen VAP is reached, at least along the border in Texas.

I see you went with something close to my "butt-ugly" version for minority districts in DFW.



()
TX-30
a) Johnson
b) Obama 82, McCain 17 (previous Obama 82, McCain 18)
c) Black 51, White 25, Hispanic 20, Asian 3
d) Now extends to reach the blacks in Tarrant County.  Also now majority-black.

()
TX-33
a) None
b) Obama 69, McCain 30
c) Hispanic 63 (63.16), White 21, Black 13, Asian 3
d) What an ugly looking strip of Hispanic minority-majority land.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 18, 2011, 09:35:07 AM
Are VAP/Citizen VAP problems going to be as dire in the Houston/DFW districts as they are in South Texas?

I always figured part of the problem was that South Texas was full of illegals and thus Citizen VAP is going to be proportionately lower compared to the urban cities, which should have more citizens.

If so, I figure you might as well rebundle 9 and 18 and get yourself a 'free' hispanic district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 18, 2011, 10:10:27 AM
In apologies for my Demmymander, here's "Civic Exercise" Texas, ie something similar to what a redistricting commission might draw if it existed (and given the recent Florida and California initiatives, who knows what the future has in store on that front?) Except they'd do a much better job at dividing Houston Blacks from Houston Hispanics, and maybe the Lubbock-Amarillo thing (why is that "never going to happen in real life", Sam?) Oh, and they'd baulk at the donut I drew around San Antonio, but it was the most reasonable thing to do with the territory I had left.

This has - 8 Hispanic seats (3 South Texas, 2 San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, El Paso), two of them not entirely unwinnable for Republicans (Farenthold's and one in San Antonio), 2 Black seats (Houston and Dallas), 3 White Democrats (2 Austin and Fort Worth) and one coalition seat in Houston that it's really hard to tell who'll win it except that they'll be a Democrat.
Oh, also one seat where, had it existed last decade, Nick Lampson would presumably have lost in 2010 but definitely not before, and one marginal McCain seat in Dallas that demographic change will do in before the decade's out.

()

CD1 (blue) Tyler, Marshall, Longview, Nacogdoches
70 - 9 - 19 (format is white - hispanic - black where over 5 - asian where over 5)
69-30 McCain
Gohmert

CD2 (dark green) Texarkana to Dallas exurbs
78 - 8 - 12
69-30 McCain
Hall

CD3 (purple) North Tarrant to Denison
81 - 10
66-33 McCain (Denton town is ridiculously liberal btw, wtf is up with that?)
Open, right?

CD4 (red) most of Collin County
77 - 10 - 5 - 8
62-37 McCain
Sam Johnson (probably)

time for the DFW map

()

CD5 (yellow) Northeast Tarrant, much of Denton Counties
79 - 10 - 5 - 5
65-35 McCain
Burgess

CD6 (bluegreen) Northwest Dallas County, bleeding over the line into Denton and Collin
56 - 22 - 15 - 7
52-47 McCain
Marchant

CD7 (grey) Northeast Dallas County
67 - 16 - 8 - 9
56-43 McCain
No idea whereabouts in Dallas Hensarling might be living but it could be here. Sessions also has to be living in Dallas someplace.

CD8 (lavender) South Dallas. That ugly spike is sort of unavoidable.
28 - 24 - 46
78-22 Obama
One would hope Eddie Johnson lives here

CD9 (teal) Central Dallas and points west
34 - 50 - 10 - 6
57-42 Obama
Open, or maybe Sessions

CD10 (pink) Fort Worth
48 - 28 - 20
56-43 Obama
Granger (?)

CD11 (light green) suburbs and exurbs southeast, south and west of Fort Worth
81 - 10 - 5
67-32 McCain
Open (unless Granger's home is here after all. She'd probably run here, anyways.)

CD12 (light blue) Wichita Falls, Abilene, and points south to the Colorado and north into the entire eastern half of the Panhandle (it's outside the picture, but it's the three eastern columns of counties except in the northernmost row, where it's only the easternmost county.)
78 - 15 - 5
76-23 McCain
Thornberry

CD13 (tan) Lubbock and Amarillo
63 - 28 - 6
73-26 McCain
Neugebauer

CD14 (golden brown) Killeen, Temple, Georgetown
68 - 15 - 13
59-39 McCain
Open

CD15 (orange) Waco and points northeast around Corsicana, including more genuinely suburban territory than I would have liked
72 - 14 -12
66-33 McCain
Barton

CD16 (green) Bryan, Huntsville, Lufkin
68 - 13 - 16
66-33 McCain
Flores

CD17 (slate) Beaumont/Port Arthur, Galveston/Texas City, Baytown
62 - 14 - 22
58-41 McCain
Open

CD18 (yellow) Montgomery County and some northeast Harris burbs
78 - 12 - 7
71-28 McCain
Brady, Poe (just about - he lives in Humble which is the westernmost area in the Harris portion here)

time for the Harris map

()

CD19 (that faintly disgusting undefinable shade between green and brown) Northwest Harris County
66 - 18 - 9
64-35 McCain
*Probably* open

CD20 (pale pink) North Houston
18 - 46 - 32
76-24 Obama
Gene Green may or may not live here, I've no idea

CD21 (maroon) Centralish Houston
30 - 40 - 23
66-33 Obama
Jackson-Lee may or may not live here, I've no idea

CD22 (brown) West Houston Whiteyland
65 - 21 - 6 - 8
62-37 McCain
Culberson, I suppose?

CD23 (light teal) either side of the Harris-Fort Bend line
24 - 26 - 36 - 13. Wow at the Asian %age here. Yes, it's a coalition seat strictly speaking, not a Black seat.
70-29 Obama
Al Green

CD24 (purple) based around Pasadena
47 - 39 - 8 - 5
56-43 McCain
Open

CD25 (rosé) Brazoria, outer Fort Bend, suburban Galveston County
65 - 21 - 8 - 7
66-33 McCain
Paul, probably Olson (though he might be in Al Green's seat too)

CD26 (dark grey) a Coastal Bend seat based around Victoria, with all sorts of areas that don't quite belong thrown in around the edges
58 - 32 - 7
65-34 McCain
Open

CD27 (another tealish shade) North Austin, Round Rock
63 - 21 - 9 - 7
59-39 Obama
McCaul, Carter. Lol.

time for the San Antonio/Austin map

()

CD28 (lavender) South Austin, San Marcos
57 - 31 - 7
62-36 Obama
Doggett

CD29 (another weird shade) a donut with two fillings. Suburban Bexar, White Flight Comal County, a lot of Hill Country
63 - 31
65-34 McCain
Open unless one of the San Antonio Republicans actually lives here. Smith should run here, anyways.

CD30 (red) East San Antonio
41 - 47 - 9
52-47 Obama
Smith supposedly lives in San Antonio, and so does Canseco. No idea where, but one wonders if Canseco might hold this one down.

CD31 (yellow) West San Antonio. Seeing how exactly two CDs fit within those ring roads, it'd be  criminal not to. Split it north-south instead and the map looks even nicer and the northern seat is marginally McCain, but also marginally majority white. Which wouldn't fly with a commission reading it's VRA caselaw, not with the southern seat next door quite packed with Hispanics.
27 - 65 - 5
59-39 Obama
Don't know which district Gonzalez lives in, either.

time for the South Texas map

()

CD32 (orange) Corpus to Harlingen
27 - 69
54-45 Obama
Farenthold

CD33 (blue) Brownsville to McAllen
12 - 87
68-32 Obama
Hinojosa

CD34 (green) Mission to Del Rio
8 - 91
71-29 Obama
Cuellar

CD35 (purple) Permian, San Angelo, some Hill Country, Trans-Pecos even though it hurt to let it go
53 - 41
71 - 28 McCain
Conaway

CD36 (not shown) El Paso
18 - 77
65-34 Obama
Reyes


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 18, 2011, 06:18:21 PM
here's who i see in the 113th delegation

1. Gohmert
2.  Hall (if he doesn't croak)
3. Jane Nelson
4. Johnson
5. Burgess
6. Marchant
7. Sessions vs. Hensarling primary (Sessions winning)
8. EBJ
9. Rafael Anchia
10. Wendy Davis
11. Granger
12. Thornberry
13. Nawgubower
14. Dan Gattis maybe?
15. Barton
16. Flores
17. Craig Eiland maybe?
18. Brady
19. Poe
20. G. Green
21. SJL
22. Culberson
23. A. Green
24. jackson guy in the state senate
25. Olsen
26. not sure
27. Mark Strama
28.  Doggett
29. Smith
30. Canseco or Van de Putte
31. Gonzalez
32. Farenthold (if he keeps the seat)
33. Hinojosa
34. Cuellar
35. Conaway
36. Reyes


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 20, 2011, 04:01:37 PM
What would the UIL do?

In apologies for my Demmymander, here's "Civic Exercise" Texas, ie something similar to what a redistricting commission might draw if it existed (and given the recent Florida and California initiatives, who knows what the future has in store on that front?) Except they'd do a much better job at dividing Houston Blacks from Houston Hispanics, and maybe the Lubbock-Amarillo thing (why is that "never going to happen in real life", Sam?) Oh, and they'd baulk at the donut I drew around San Antonio, but it was the most reasonable thing to do with the territory I had left.
When it was first possible to draw a Lubbock - Amarillo it would have been very tightly drawn, perhaps going down the New Mexico border to avoid Plainview, but leaving out Dalhart, or it could go further east, to cut down the population, but it would ended up being a donut.  Even now, while the Lubbock-Amarillo district looks neat, you have a huge area which you disguised by cutting off the map.

()

CD3 (purple) North Tarrant to Denison
81 - 10
66-33 McCain (Denton town is ridiculously liberal btw, wtf is up with that?)
Open, right?
University of North Texas, Texas Womens University.  Also Denton is far enough north that it really isn't a suburban.   Because the Denton-Collin border is east of the Tarrant-Dallas border, the suburban growth is in the SE corner, and then you hit a lake so it isn't solid growth to Denton.  Suburban growth from Fort Worth is just barely lapping into Denton County.

()

CD10 (pink) Fort Worth
48 - 28 - 20
56-43 Obama
Granger (?)

CD11 (light green) suburbs and exurbs southeast, south and west of Fort Worth
81 - 10 - 5
67-32 McCain
Open (unless Granger's home is here after all. She'd probably run here, anyways.)
Granger was mayor of Fort Worth.

CD17 (slate) Beaumont/Port Arthur, Galveston/Texas City, Baytown
62 - 14 - 22
58-41 McCain
Open
The state highway between Galveston and Port Arthur was wiped out several decades ago and not replaced.  Your district looks OK simply because lower Galverton Bay is in Galveston County, and upper Galveston Bay is in Chambers.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on January 21, 2011, 12:01:50 AM
Sam's Texas map version 1. Sam you seem to have a hanging precinct in South Texas. :P But I did that in PA, because to do otherwise meant going through a 90% Obama precinct or two to get to South Philly to append to PA-07 (a zone that was very sorely needed to append to PA-07), so I noted that a couple of precinct lines would simply have to be redrawn (so that the connection could be over the Philly airport runway, and a Gulf Oil tank farm)!

()()

()
()
()

Dallas
()

Austin-San Antonio
()

Houston
()

South Texas
()

Sam TX Map version 2 (change in CD's in San Antonio-Houston corridor from version 1)
()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 21, 2011, 08:21:47 AM
For some reason, it told me that it was contiguous, but I changed it in later versions when I saw it wasn't.  It's not a big deal - you can change things around Harlingen an the numbers are not particularly different.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 21, 2011, 07:53:13 PM
does anyone know or remember in 1981 when they were redrawing the lines and there was controversy over the redrawing of the DFW Area.

I believe there was a plan to draw a CD 26 which would have been in south Dallas where pretty much every black precinct was packed in. The remaining parts of CD 24 and CD 5 would then absorb the area in CD 3. I believe there were people in the NAACP who wanted a district that would elect a black person, but there were blacks in the legislature, who although they were supportive of blacks in office, they placed the priorities of the democratic party first.

The controversy is seen in the 1988 election map. Dukakis won District 5 50-49 and District 24 52-47. The black areas of Dallas was split in half and added to suburban areas. District 24 took in Grand Prairie, Irving, Carrollton, Coppell and District 5 took in Mesquite. District 3, which bordered both districts to the north, gave Bush 74 percent as the democrats packed every WASP precinct into that district. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 22, 2011, 03:40:52 AM
For some reason, it told me that it was contiguous, but I changed it in later versions when I saw it wasn't.  It's not a big deal - you can change things around Harlingen an the numbers are not particularly different.
In the federal district court trial on the 2003 district boundaries, the issue of the district boundaries in the Harlingen area were raised.  The plaintiffs claimed that these really weird boundaries (between 27 and 15) were drawn to cut out 15 Hispanic voters.  The State responded that they had simply followed the city limits, including fence lines of Harlingen.  For that reason, Torie's boundaries might be suspect since they ignored conventional redistricting practice of respecting city boundaries, especially if it appeared that the intent was done to deny Hispanics an equal opportunity to elect the candidate of their choice.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 23, 2011, 09:03:51 PM
I kind of did a run over the numbers and came to these conclusions with regards to a really pretty looking map in a GOP gerrymander with the present numbers.

Sam I require you to do the following:

5 Districts entirely within Harris County

Really easy actually.  You get three GOP CDs with 60%+McCain (Culberson, Poe and new Congressman), two Dem CDs, one Hispanic majority and one black majority (Green and Lee) completely within Harris and one Dem CD that extends into Fort Bend County to pick up the rest of Houston and the black precincts around Missouri City.  Yawn.

Quote
3 Districts entirely within Dallas County

This is the one problem county in a pretty Republican gerrymander.  You can't get the new Hispanic-majority CD into safe Hispanic-majority territory without pushing into Tarrant County (and TX-30 remains not black majority, but who cares).  You can create one Republican CD entirely within Dallas County, but the third CD would become pretty marginal.  If you say "screw the Hispanic district", then you can extend that third CD to another county to make it safe Republican.

Quote
2 Districts entirely within Tarrant County

One GOP CD in NE Tarrant County.  Easy.  Then you've got to make it look ugly.  Give the most severely Dem areas to a CD that extends out to the west and north (not Denton).  Create the other GOP CD from the leftovers.  If the Hispanic CD moves into Tarrant, your job becomes easier and you may not have to extend out to the counties to the west and north (not Denton)

Quote
2 Districts entirely within Bexar County

Basically, you have Gonzalez and then you can draw Smith (and possibly Canseco) into a safe Republican seat, with the Bexar County excess Hispanics going into one of the other Hispanic-majority seats.

Quote
1 District Entirely within Travis County

So you pack Doggett into Austin.  Yawn.  As I showed in the last map, if you push McCaul's seat west, instead of east, taking in San Angelo, you make it much more safe even though you take in all the other Travis precincts.  It makes a lot more sense to do this now that Flores holds TX-17 (you can draw his seat to take in a lot (if not all) of the former TX-10 rural areas.

Quote
1 District Entirely Within Collin County

Already did this.  Johnson's seat makes the most sense, of course.

Quote
1 District Entirely within El Paso County

Already did this - the excess goes into the Trans-Pecos area seat.

Quote
1 District Entirely within Hidalgo County

You can make Hinojosa's CD the entire county and spread it into Cameron to take precincts away from TX-27 to make it more Republican-friendly.  Not that difficult really.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on January 23, 2011, 09:10:32 PM
For some reason, it told me that it was contiguous, but I changed it in later versions when I saw it wasn't.  It's not a big deal - you can change things around Harlingen an the numbers are not particularly different.
In the federal district court trial on the 2003 district boundaries, the issue of the district boundaries in the Harlingen area were raised.  The plaintiffs claimed that these really weird boundaries (between 27 and 15) were drawn to cut out 15 Hispanic voters.  The State responded that they had simply followed the city limits, including fence lines of Harlingen.  For that reason, Torie's boundaries might be suspect since they ignored conventional redistricting practice of respecting city boundaries, especially if it appeared that the intent was done to deny Hispanics an equal opportunity to elect the candidate of their choice.


What are exactly the "fence lines of Harlingen"?  The numbers don't make that big of a difference here in my book, so changes could be made to "respect that".


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 24, 2011, 05:02:04 AM
[What are exactly the "fence lines of Harlingen"?  The numbers don't make that big of a difference here in my book, so changes could be made to "respect that".
Go to  http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/redist.htm  And bring up District Viewer (the cursor target is off a bit, so point slightly above).

Select the congressional plan and select on cities, then turn off the congressional map checkbox.  Zoom in on Harlingen (sorry, no box zoom).  And if you notice carefully you see a long yellow spear almost reaching the river.  Turn the congressional map back on.

Texas has (had) pretty liberal annexation laws, where a city can basically say to an area, "you're now in the city".  You might remember when Houston under Bob Lanier annexed Kingwood.  And when NASA was being built at Clear Lake, there were like 13 cities trying to annex it.

So to try to provide some structure, cities were granted Extra Territorial Jurisdiction (ETJ) outside their city limits.  The distance outside your city limits that an ETJ extends, depends on the population of the city.  For Houston, it extends 5 miles.  Another city can not annex within an ETJ of another city, and new city may not be formed within the ETJ (without permission).

Cities used to be able to annex very narrow strips of land, less than 100 feet wide.  You could annex a long strip, and extend your ETJ, and then repeat.  Houston has some areas like that which extend almost to Waller and Tomball, and there is another that goes into the far NW corner of Harris County.  Those that reach out to Waller and Tomball have arms that spread out as if trying to surround those areas.  Those are fence lines, which are being used to fence out other cities.

Strip annexations like that are now illegal, but cities can still keep the existing ones, and annex off them.  Cities are now also required to provide services to an area when they annex it, within a few years.  So most cities only annex retail, offices, and industrial areas, since they bring in more revenue than they cost in services.  Residential areas are expensive - except in cases like Kingwood which already had city-level streets and utilities.  Something like 97% of retail establishments in Harris County are inside city limits, so that the cities can collect the sales taxes.

Back to Harlingen.  The boundary between CD 15 and 27 used to be on the Hidalgo-Cameron County line.  But let's say you want to draw a district between say McAllen and ummmm. how about Austin?  So you need a little bit more of Hidalgo County, and CD 15 needs some more population.  So you shift Harlingen into CD 15 and add some more of San Patricio to CD 27.

And just to keep Justice Kennedy and his never-ending quest for the judiciable political gerrymander standard, you respect the city limits of Harlingen.  When the district court had its trial, the plaintiffs tried to show that the irregularity in district boundaries was racially based, and the State could show that they were following city boundaries.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on January 24, 2011, 01:31:05 PM
Interesting, read, jim. Those annexation laws are actually pretty strict compared to Georgia, though- cities can even annex roadways without annexing the property on either side. The western boundary of my hometown of Auburn is just a patchwork of territory randomly in and outside of city limits, with the city limits doing crazy things like travelling along a road, taking in a cow pasture to reach another road, then extending further along that one. There's an intersection where the town is to the southeast, but the only city territory is the northwest corner. On one smaller road out of town you pass five "Auburn City Limits" signs in about three miles.

And then there's Braselton, a small town along the interstate that extended it's city limits two miles down the highway to get tax revenue from the gas station at the next exit down, and (more importantly) have a longer stretch of interstate to catch speeders.

I'll end my off-topic tangent here, but such crazy things like you describe do happen pretty often.   


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on January 24, 2011, 01:59:09 PM
Wow Auburn has an ugly shape. It looks like a hideously gerrymandered congressional district. So Georgia is full of a sprawly mess and lets it get shaped ugly too.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on January 24, 2011, 02:26:24 PM

Indeed. Here's a map for those keeping score at home:

()

Also, just as an addendum to my earlier post, Braselton has since expanded to encompass the area between the two interstate exits in a normal fashion. Auburn is ridiculous, though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 25, 2011, 04:28:56 AM
()

Pikers.  Alvin is the "A" in the upper center of the map.  It has two little arms extending along Texas 6 to the east and west, and legs along Texas 35 to the south.

Its fence line (1) extends almost the full length of the Brazoria-Galveston county line, (2) almost to the Gulf of Mexico, it then (3,4) comes back north through Brazoria county to keep the Lake Jackson cities out, and then heads west to (5) where it reaches the Brazos River and Fort Bend County.  It then follows the county line, north, east, and NNE, to (6) where it meets the Pearland fence line and heads east.  It is snipped off by Iowa Colony, but starts up again until it meets the Manvel fence line and heads south, end where it meets Iowa Colony again.

I'm guessing that this fence line is about 80 miles in length.

(7) Alvin has another fence line to its north that extends along the Brazoria-Galveston line west of Friendswood, heads west along the Pearland fence line, and then turns south along the Manvel fence line.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on January 30, 2011, 04:36:49 AM
is there a VRA for white people? Cuz if there is I'm pretty sure this map would see lawsuits by the NAAWP.

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on February 08, 2011, 08:42:54 AM
i had a plan that would be to protect all 32 incumbents, which I found difficult to do. I tried to protect Marchant by getting rid of everything south of I-30 and adding some wealthier areas of NE Tarrant County for a 62 percent McCain district. I protected Sessions by getting rid of Cockrell Hill and some mexican areas of Dallas and attaching it to some Dallas county portions of CD 3.

The best way to protect McCaul is to take out the most dem areas of Austin.
Under that plan the only area of Travis County left would be the Pflugerville area (not sure if he lives there). Despite it being a 58% McCain district, it is somewhat difficult to protect Pete Olsen. His district has 900,000 people, so it needed to shed a lot of precincts. I took out a lot of areas in Galveston and Harris counties out of the district, which made it look more compact. The issue for him is that those are the most republican parts of his district, and without them, it would be a 50-50 district for him.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on February 08, 2011, 10:19:48 AM
i had a plan that would be to protect all 32 incumbents, which I found difficult to do. I tried to protect Marchant by getting rid of everything south of I-30 and adding some wealthier areas of NE Tarrant County for a 62 percent McCain district. I protected Sessions by getting rid of Cockrell Hill and some mexican areas of Dallas and attaching it to some Dallas county portions of CD 3.

The best way to protect McCaul is to take out the most dem areas of Austin.
Under that plan the only area of Travis County left would be the Pflugerville area (not sure if he lives there). Despite it being a 58% McCain district, it is somewhat difficult to protect Pete Olsen. His district has 900,000 people, so it needed to shed a lot of precincts. I took out a lot of areas in Galveston and Harris counties out of the district, which made it look more compact. The issue for him is that those are the most republican parts of his district, and without them, it would be a 50-50 district for him.

It is rather easy to protect all incumbents not named Canseco and Farenthold, if you want to.  The creation of the Hispanic-majority CD in DFW allows you to get 60% McCain on all Dallas area CDs without the map looking too bad actually.  As for McCaul, I haven't figured out exactly where he lives in Austin, but the best way to protect him (oddly enough) is to go west, not east, which is made a heck of a lot easier now that Flores holds TX-17 (lives in Bryan-College Station).  That way, you can append Waco to some other CD, like Barton, for example and push Flores to take up McCaul rural areas.

With the strictures of the VRA, it's going to be hard to protect Doggett, if you want to protect Farenthold (as demonstrated earlier).  Otherwise, you'll probably be able to move the scale in favor of Canseco and Farenthold only a few points.  My idea of giving Canseco one of the new districts and redesigning TX-23 is also possible.  You can probably do the same thing with Farenthold, but it's more difficult to do it for both and still have enough Hispanic CDs.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on February 09, 2011, 08:11:21 PM
one idea i had was to make a district entirely on the excess population of other districts. I made a district that took out all the excess population from Ralph Hall, Kay Granger, Sam Johnson, and Burgess district. It took in Western Grayson county and eastern cooke county, anna, frisco, mckinney, celina, melissa, prosper in collin county; the colony, krum, little elm, hackberry, sanger in denton county; all of wise county and most of Parker county.

It is an 82 percent white district. Someone like Phil King or Ken Paxton would run here and probably wouldn't have much trouble getting elected.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on February 12, 2011, 11:17:47 PM
You can probably do the same thing with Farenthold, but it's more difficult to do it for both and still have enough Hispanic CDs.

In actuality, because I had not yet done this, I stand corrected. 

You can give Canseco and Farenthold 60% McCain CDs (Canseco would fear Anglo GOP challenge, of course) and redesign TX23 and TX27 to be 63/64% Hispanic CDs with 55% McCain and 52% McCain totals respectively. 

TX23 remains similar to the Odessa map Torie detailed and TX27 takes the Brownsville portion of Cameron County (pushing the Harlingen part to TX-15, which is a little counterintuitive), pushes up north, bypasses Nueces, takes in San Patricio and centers the other half of the CD around Victoria.  Farenthold's new CD goes along the coast and then moves up to take Paul and McCaul old territories.

That means two of the four open CDs will be very marginal territory, but it may actually make more sense for the GOP, as Victoria (and the surrounding areas Hispanics) are a bit more reliable GOP voters down ballot.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Lief 🗽 on February 13, 2011, 07:27:21 PM
Sam, have you been following the fight between Perry and Doggett over education funding? Do you think Perry might push the legislature to cut up his seat after this?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on February 14, 2011, 05:57:47 PM
Sam, have you been following the fight between Perry and Doggett over education funding? Do you think Perry might push the legislature to cut up his seat after this?

Not really.

Perry might do it.  It can be done - you either make it into a Hispanic-majority seat, he may still win anyway, or you draw him out of the district, but I don't know where exactly he lives in Austin.  The Hispanic-majority seat not pretty, but it can be done.  The only issue is that it makes creating Hispanic-majority seats where GOPers can win a bit more difficult in other parts of the state.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on February 14, 2011, 09:23:12 PM
so who will represent the hispanic district in Dallas? I'm thinking someone like Rafael Anchia may represent him. He's fairly young and has been in the legislature for four terms. He is supposed to be an up and comer. Kind of reminds me of Raul Grijalva only less liberal.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on February 14, 2011, 10:16:57 PM
so who will represent the hispanic district in Dallas? I'm thinking someone like Rafael Anchia may represent him. He's fairly young and has been in the legislature for four terms. He is supposed to be an up and comer. Kind of reminds me of Raul Grijalva only less liberal.

Watch - you'll get a whitey there like Gene Green, although Gene had extremely favorable circumstances when he first ran.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on February 14, 2011, 10:22:23 PM
Sam, have you been following the fight between Perry and Doggett over education funding? Do you think Perry might push the legislature to cut up his seat after this?

Not really.

Perry might do it.  It can be done - you either make it into a Hispanic-majority seat, he may still win anyway, or you draw him out of the district, but I don't know where exactly he lives in Austin.  The Hispanic-majority seat not pretty, but it can be done.  The only issue is that it makes creating Hispanic-majority seats where GOPers can win a bit more difficult in other parts of the state.

So Torie sent me the exact whereabouts of Doggett, and my conclusion is that it's going to be very hard to f-ck him.  You can't draw him into a GOP district without having a really ugly looking claw, and even then you will include a lot of hard Dem territory to where it marginalizes the GOP area and will most likely be minority (which will break the justification).  Drawing the Hispanic minority-majority CD is also difficult in that you need to make sure you've got more San Antonio than Austin, which is difficult, almost impossible.

In short, it's probably not worth the effort.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 14, 2011, 10:46:11 PM
Sam, have you been following the fight between Perry and Doggett over education funding? Do you think Perry might push the legislature to cut up his seat after this?

Not really.

Perry might do it.  It can be done - you either make it into a Hispanic-majority seat, he may still win anyway, or you draw him out of the district, but I don't know where exactly he lives in Austin.  The Hispanic-majority seat not pretty, but it can be done.  The only issue is that it makes creating Hispanic-majority seats where GOPers can win a bit more difficult in other parts of the state.

He can move.  After the 2003 redistricting he rented an apartment in south Austin.  During the court trial, one of the remedy plans said that he didn't live in the new district, but it didn't matter since he didn't live in his old one either, and then one of the briefs noted that he did live in the district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 06, 2011, 01:39:43 PM
My first attempt with 2010 census data:

I'll do a writeup on it later, but I just want to get the images out there.

New districts are the orange one in DFW, the green district in Waco/rural Texas, the purple one in Arlington stretching south parallel to Barton's district, and the light blue one in Port Arthur/Beaumont. New hispanic districts in DFW and Houston.


() (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/texasfinal.png/)

() (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/harrisn.png/)


() (http://img848.imageshack.us/i/valley.png/)


() (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/dallass.png/)



Yeah, I know the 2 DFW districts are not contiguous on Dave's app. Pretend I connected them via I-30 similar to IL-4.

This map gives up on the idea of knocking out Cuellar.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 06, 2011, 04:04:42 PM
Cd-9 and CD-18 are also not contiguous and I don't know how they could be.

I haven't started posting any maps yet because I have to get the partisan figures for the big counties into an excel file in order to properly gerrymander (like Torie does).  :P


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: RI on March 06, 2011, 04:14:08 PM
Cd-9 and CD-18 are also not contiguous and I don't know how they could be.

Probably point-continuity like in NC.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 06, 2011, 05:43:20 PM
Cd-9 and CD-18 are also not contiguous and I don't know how they could be.

I haven't started posting any maps yet because I have to get the partisan figures for the big counties into an excel file in order to properly gerrymander (like Torie does).  :P

It's designed to be touch pointed.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 06, 2011, 05:58:31 PM
Cd-9 and CD-18 are also not contiguous and I don't know how they could be.

I haven't started posting any maps yet because I have to get the partisan figures for the big counties into an excel file in order to properly gerrymander (like Torie does).  :P

It's designed to be touch pointed.

Fair enough.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 06, 2011, 06:33:18 PM
Cd-9 and CD-18 are also not contiguous and I don't know how they could be.

I haven't started posting any maps yet because I have to get the partisan figures for the big counties into an excel file in order to properly gerrymander (like Torie does).  :P

It's designed to be touch pointed.

Fair enough.

I think you could have one district use the Pierce Elevated while the other uses Main Street, or you use the tunnels.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 06, 2011, 06:38:37 PM
I might add, though, that the purpose of touch pointing on that map is kind of limited. All it does is let you put all the Hispanics in CD-9 and create yourself a 'free' Hispanic majority district to make LULAC happy, and with any luck, get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee. It doesn't net the Pubbies any seats.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 06, 2011, 07:13:54 PM
I might add, though, that the purpose of touch pointing on that map is kind of limited. All it does is let you put all the Hispanics in CD-9 and create yourself a 'free' Hispanic majority district to make LULAC happy, and with any luck, get rid of Sheila Jackson Lee. It doesn't net the Pubbies any seats.

Al Green won't defeat Sheila in that CD-18, though I see how you're drawing him in, but he'll be toast.  Gene Green's residence would now be in CD-9, so CD-29 would be very open.  A lot of your proposed CD-29 is very idiosyncratic territory - you could get any type of race in control there, don't let the Hispanic numbers fool you.

You also won't like the partisan numbers on your proposed CD-7.  I also wonder on the partisan numbers of CD-9 and CD-29, they'll be Democratic enough, though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 06, 2011, 07:26:38 PM
Al Green won't defeat Sheila in that CD-18, though I see how you're drawing him in, but he'll be toast.  Gene Green's residence would now be in CD-9, so CD-29 would be very open.  A lot of your proposed CD-29 is very idiosyncratic territory - you could get any type of race in control there, don't let the Hispanic numbers fool you.

You also won't like the partisan numbers on your proposed CD-7.  I also wonder on the partisan numbers of CD-9 and CD-29, they'll be Democratic enough, though.

Hmm, I approximated that CD-7 at 56% McCain or so; its a 59.8% Anglo district. The precincts are pretty carefully chosen. It might be a problem a few years from now, though.

CD-22 was actually my real concern given the massive shifts in Fort Bend.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 06, 2011, 08:09:03 PM
Al Green won't defeat Sheila in that CD-18, though I see how you're drawing him in, but he'll be toast.  Gene Green's residence would now be in CD-9, so CD-29 would be very open.  A lot of your proposed CD-29 is very idiosyncratic territory - you could get any type of race in control there, don't let the Hispanic numbers fool you.

You also won't like the partisan numbers on your proposed CD-7.  I also wonder on the partisan numbers of CD-9 and CD-29, they'll be Democratic enough, though.

Hmm, I approximated that CD-7 at 56% McCain or so; its a 59.8% Anglo district. The precincts are pretty carefully chosen. It might be a problem a few years from now, though.

CD-22 was actually my real concern given the massive shifts in Fort Bend.

The old Culberson CD was 58% McCain, so if that's the case, you've given him a weaker CD.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on March 07, 2011, 05:44:18 AM
Al Green won't defeat Sheila in that CD-18, though I see how you're drawing him in, but he'll be toast.  Gene Green's residence would now be in CD-9, so CD-29 would be very open.  A lot of your proposed CD-29 is very idiosyncratic territory - you could get any type of race in control there, don't let the Hispanic numbers fool you.

You also won't like the partisan numbers on your proposed CD-7.  I also wonder on the partisan numbers of CD-9 and CD-29, they'll be Democratic enough, though.

Hmm, I approximated that CD-7 at 56% McCain or so; its a 59.8% Anglo district. The precincts are pretty carefully chosen. It might be a problem a few years from now, though.

CD-22 was actually my real concern given the massive shifts in Fort Bend.

You're right, it is at about 56% McCain from what I can tell trying to replicate it.   However, it begs the question why you added all the Democrat-leaning territory in the western part of the district and gave the heavily-republican parts to the 8th?  I assume that district doesn't need any help.  Rearrange some lines around there and give some of the red/blue territory to  the 7th, and you can make it at least 59% McCain.

Also, your CD-22 is fine, it's almost 60% McCain.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 07, 2011, 09:01:27 AM
You're right, it is at about 56% McCain from what I can tell trying to replicate it.   However, it begs the question why you added all the Democrat-leaning territory in the western part of the district and gave the heavily-republican parts to the 8th?  I assume that district doesn't need any help.  Rearrange some lines around there and give some of the red/blue territory to  the 7th, and you can make it at least 59% McCain.

Also, your CD-22 is fine, it's almost 60% McCain.

I actually mapped it out; that Woodlands district was close to 70. Thanks, made some swaps. Both districts should be at or above 60 now. I put those Democratic areas in Flores's district since he dropped Waco up north.

() (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/harrisw.png/)



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on March 07, 2011, 09:24:58 AM
I think TX-7 could be safe Republican even with a lower McCain number, much like Torie's district in California. Obama won many high-income voters over McCain-Palin in 2008 that are simply not going to vote for a Democratic candidate for Congress and may not vote for Obama again in 2012.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 07, 2011, 10:05:35 AM
I think TX-7 could be safe Republican even with a lower McCain number, much like Torie's district in California. Obama won many high-income voters over McCain-Palin in 2008 that are simply not going to vote for a Democratic candidate for Congress and may not vote for Obama again in 2012.

You're probably right, of course, but there's no reason not to play it safe since the numbers can be made stronger without much hurt otherwise.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 11, 2011, 11:44:03 AM
what's with Pete Sessions district losing 11,000 people. I'm guessing the district is going to pick up parts of Garland from CD 3.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on March 11, 2011, 11:55:49 AM
what's with Pete Sessions district losing 11,000 people. I'm guessing the district is going to pick up parts of Garland from CD 3.

Probably not--those precincts don't have the kind of numbers that he needs to get a safe district.  It'll probably shoot north towards Frisco and some of the other North-Dallas suburbs in the 4th and 26th that can be safely removed.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on March 11, 2011, 12:21:25 PM
Wait, what is this "touch-pointed"? That doesn't make sense. Mathematically, you shouldn't be able to skip over the center point like that - if you could, then any noncontiguous district with two parts at opposite ends of a state could be made "contiguous" by an infinitely narrow point-wide connection with a Dedekind cut on either side.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 11, 2011, 12:32:17 PM
Wait, what is this "touch-pointed"? That doesn't make sense. Mathematically, you shouldn't be able to skip over the center point like that - if you could, then any noncontiguous district with two parts at opposite ends of a state could be made "contiguous" by an infinitely narrow point-wide connection with a Dedekind cut on either side.

Imagine Utah and New Mexico being in 1 district, and Arizona/Colorado being in a 2nd district.

It's already used in several places. NC-13 for example.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 11, 2011, 03:36:23 PM
Wait, what is this "touch-pointed"? That doesn't make sense. Mathematically, you shouldn't be able to skip over the center point like that - if you could, then any noncontiguous district with two parts at opposite ends of a state could be made "contiguous" by an infinitely narrow point-wide connection with a Dedekind cut on either side.
I think you are going to get different interpretation of whether this is legal in different states,  Just because it happened in North Carolina doesn't mean that it will work in Texas.

If you wanted to maintain literal contiguity you can start out with 36 concentric districts that are a millimeter thick around the outside perimeter of the state.   Pick out a set of discontiguous areas that are to comprise the outermost district.  Connect these with narrow channels 72 millimeters wide that run down the center of roads etc  Run the bundles of districts down the left side if the channel.  When you get to one of the areas that have people that will be in the district, run the bundle around the outside, and then come back down the right side the channel.  Repeat the same for each other district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on March 11, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
It's already used in several places. NC-13 for example.

I'm struggling to think of an example other than that one in use currently.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 11, 2011, 05:39:08 PM
It's already used in several places. NC-13 for example.

I'm struggling to think of an example other than that one in use currently.

You might be right at the Congressional level. I know for a fact that George Democrats used it in 2001 at the state legislative level.

Truthfully the only reason to do it is to achieve a different racial balance in CD-9.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on March 11, 2011, 07:15:42 PM
Yeah, you're right about NC-13 and NC-6 in Greensboro - never noticed that before.

Still, already done doesn't mean legal; it just means never challenged on that basis, and I still maintain it ought not to be legal. Jimrtex's suggestions with millimeters are legalistic but coherent; with these X's, on the other hand, the district's width must be literally just a point, because any larger surface area at all would cut off the other district. And if you allow districts to have sections that don't extend at all in two dimensions then there is effectively no requirement of contiguity at all.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 12, 2011, 05:45:12 PM
Something that I never thought about:

Is it possible to eliminate Gene Green's seat?

() (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/alternateharris.png/)


The yellow and blue are 81/85% Obama dem packs. The grey district is Culbertson's and 58% McCain; the purple is a newly created 60% McCain district. The green incomplete district starts at Humble (Ted Poe's home) and would head towards Port Arthur.

The grey-green seat in eastern Harris is the new Gene Green seat, and is 60% Hispanic, 55% McCain per the old data. It is likely much more hispanic with the new data.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on March 12, 2011, 05:58:03 PM
How is that eliminating Gene Green's seat? It's a purpose drawn Hispanic Dominated seat as is. Yeah, Green's white, but it's not been an issue except on his very first election in 1992.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on March 12, 2011, 06:20:23 PM
How is that eliminating Gene Green's seat? It's a purpose drawn Hispanic Dominated seat as is. Yeah, Green's white, but it's not been an issue except on his very first election in 1992.

He means flip it to a Republican seat.

And yes it is possible, but you'd probably run into a VRA challenge as a result.  By definition a district like that would have to basically contain a bunch of uber-Republican whites to out-vote the Hispanic majority, which I don't think is allowed.  Though you can certainly cut out the Black-heavy parts of the current district to get it down to basically swing while still Highly Hispanic.

You can actually do the same thing with the 27th and 23rd as well (a Laredo-Odessa/Midland District is like 67% Hispanic and 60% McCain), and possibly also with the 28th and the San Antonio suburbs.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on March 12, 2011, 06:28:39 PM
It's already used in several places. NC-13 for example.

I'm struggling to think of an example other than that one in use currently.

GA-08 and GA-11 also had point contiguity before the Republicans did the mid-decade redistricting in 2005.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on March 12, 2011, 06:41:22 PM
Yeah right, sorry. Overlooked that McCain percentage somehow.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 12, 2011, 07:15:21 PM
He means flip it to a Republican seat.

And yes it is possible, but you'd probably run into a VRA challenge as a result.  By definition a district like that would have to basically contain a bunch of uber-Republican whites to out-vote the Hispanic majority, which I don't think is allowed.  Though you can certainly cut out the Black-heavy parts of the current district to get it down to basically swing while still Highly Hispanic.

You can actually do the same thing with the 27th and 23rd as well (a Laredo-Odessa/Midland District is like 67% Hispanic and 60% McCain), and possibly also with the 28th and the San Antonio suburbs.

That would be the general idea, yeah. The existing 15, 28 already contain a Hispanic majority in the south with some uber-Republican whites in the northern rural counties.

That map was drawn with the old census data, though, so the racial percentages are off. I'd expect it to be ~65% Hispanic now, although in a very low turnout area.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: nclib on March 12, 2011, 08:16:52 PM
How is that eliminating Gene Green's seat? It's a purpose drawn Hispanic Dominated seat as is. Yeah, Green's white, but it's not been an issue except on his very first election in 1992.

He means flip it to a Republican seat.

And yes it is possible, but you'd probably run into a VRA challenge as a result.  By definition a district like that would have to basically contain a bunch of uber-Republican whites to out-vote the Hispanic majority, which I don't think is allowed.  Though you can certainly cut out the Black-heavy parts of the current district to get it down to basically swing while still Highly Hispanic.

You can actually do the same thing with the 27th and 23rd as well (a Laredo-Odessa/Midland District is like 67% Hispanic and 60% McCain), and possibly also with the 28th and the San Antonio suburbs.

Yeah, it sounds easy to draw a couple Hispanic majority McCain CD's in Texas involving rural areas and not too much of the border. Is this mainly due to plenty of Hispanics not being citizens (or not turning out) or do some of these areas have more GOP Hispanic support?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 12, 2011, 10:04:02 PM
How is that eliminating Gene Green's seat? It's a purpose drawn Hispanic Dominated seat as is. Yeah, Green's white, but it's not been an issue except on his very first election in 1992.

He means flip it to a Republican seat.

And yes it is possible, but you'd probably run into a VRA challenge as a result.  By definition a district like that would have to basically contain a bunch of uber-Republican whites to out-vote the Hispanic majority, which I don't think is allowed.  Though you can certainly cut out the Black-heavy parts of the current district to get it down to basically swing while still Highly Hispanic.

You can actually do the same thing with the 27th and 23rd as well (a Laredo-Odessa/Midland District is like 67% Hispanic and 60% McCain), and possibly also with the 28th and the San Antonio suburbs.

Yeah, it sounds easy to draw a couple Hispanic majority McCain CD's in Texas involving rural areas and not too much of the border. Is this mainly due to plenty of Hispanics not being citizens (or not turning out) or do some of these areas have more GOP Hispanic support?

It's a bit of both.  I've been recently going through the barrio precincts in San Antonio, and turnout in 2008 in most of these was around 20%-25% of VAP, at best.  Seriously.  Granted, there's a high percentage of non-citizens, but still...

Also, in the suburbs, you get plenty of middle-upper income areas which are much more likely to have Hispanics voting Republican.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on March 12, 2011, 10:59:08 PM
Yeah, it sounds easy to draw a couple Hispanic majority McCain CD's in Texas involving rural areas and not too much of the border. Is this mainly due to plenty of Hispanics not being citizens (or not turning out) or do some of these areas have more GOP Hispanic support?

It depends on where you're talking about.  West Texas has plenty of GOP-voting Hispanics, (the current TX-11 is almost 40% Hispanic, and it was George Bush's best District in the country), and they certainly exist in the rest of the state--they're just spread-in with the white voters so they're harder to detect.  The more concentrated Hispanics are in one place, the more Democrat they tend to be (since such areas are generally urban and poor).

So generally speaking, drawing McCain-Hispanic districts involves a combination of Hispanic-majority areas and precincts that Vote Democrat in depressed numbers and White-majority but still-substantially Hispanic Republican precincts to out-vote them.

In the example i gave above, you combine about 350,000 People in the Laredo and Eagle Pass areas that are like 95% Hispanic and 70% Democrat with about 350,000 People in the Odessa and Midland Areas that are like 35% Hispanic and 80% Republican (and who vote more) to get a district that is 65% Hispanic but also solidly Republican.

You can also do this with the Gulf Coast areas (which are Solidly Republican with a substantial Hispanic Population) and South Texas to give Farenthold a solid R district that's Hispanic-majority.

However in the large cities this breaks down a bit--particularly because you start getting White Liberals and Blacks in the mix, both of which drag down the Hispanic percentage and the McCain percentage, so it becomes a more ugly fine-picking of precincts.  It's generally still possible to get 55% McCain Districts in Houston and San Antonio, and perhaps even Dallas (but I haven't got one there yet).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 01:26:54 PM
Here is a map that both parties would probably agree on. It gives the possibility of republicans having a 27-9 delegation, but it also has the opportunity for the possibility of an 18-18 split by the end of the decade.

()

This is the Houston Area.

Green district is the 2nd District. This takes is the same although it sheds its western appendage and takes in some areas from CD 22. This district is 55.9% White and McCain probably got in the high 50s or low 60s here. Ted Poe is the incumbent in another safe GOP seat.

Silver district is the 7th District. This district is more or less the same as it was before. The district adds a few areas from CD 2 and loses some of the eastern areas of the district, but politically it is probably the same at a 58 or 59 percent McCain District. The district is 55.2% White. Safe Republican

purplish district district is 8th District. This district is more similar to what it looked like before the DeLay gerrymander. This district is 64% White and could be the most republican suburban district in the country as McCain probably got around 71 percent here. Kevin Brady of course is safe here.

Light blue district is District 9. This district is more or less the same give or take some precincts. This district is 43.2% Hispanic, 34.7% Black, 10.9% White, 9.8% Asian, 1.3% Other, and 1% Native American. Obama probably got in the mid-high 70s here. Al Green is safe here.

Yellow District is District 18. Now a more compact looking district, this is now Hispanic plurality at 42.8%. Blacks are 30.5% and Whites are 20.6%. This district is 4.9% Asian, 1.2% Other and .2% Native American. Obama probably got in the mid 70s here. Sheila Jackson Lee, despite being gaffe prone, will be fine here.

Dark brown district is District 22. This district is similar although it sheds a lot of Harris county precincts. This district is 41.2% White, 25.7% Hispanic, 16% Black, 15% Asian, 1.9% other, and .2% Native American. This is probably an R+10 district. Considering Olsen defeated an incumbent in an otherwise good year for democrats, this is a safe GOP district.

Gray district is District 29. This is a 72.2% Hispanic district where Obama probably got in the low to mid 60s. Gene Green is safe in this district.

Dark blue district is District 33. This is a 46.3% White, 29.8% Hispanic, 13.8% Black, 8.1% Asian, 1.8% Other, and .2% Native American district. It basically takes in the fast growing areas of Fort Bend and Harris counties as well as Waller and Wharton counties. McCain probably got in the low 60s here. Dan Patrick or Glenn Hegar, both state senators, may run here.

I'll be back with more later


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 03:50:05 PM
()

This is the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex.

The light purple district in the top right is the 3rd District. This district is similar to the old CD 3 except it takes out Allen, Frisco, and McKinney and adds in some of north Dallas and Richardson. This district is 49.2% White, 24.1% Hispanic, 12.5% Asian, 11.9% Black, 3% Native American, and 2% Other. McCain probably got in the mid 50s in this district. Sam Johnson is the incumbent here. Safe GOP as long as he is there, and lean/likely GOP to whoever succeeds him when he retires (he was born in 1930)

The red district is District 4. This district takes the fast growing exurbs of the metroplex. It takes in all of Jodi Laubenberg and Ken Paxton’s districts as well as some areas of Denton County and I took in a precinct in Grayson county to get it to the magical 698,000 number. This district is 65.3% White and McCain probably got around 2/3 of the vote here. Ralph Hall is the incumbent here but he will be 89 in 2012 and the above mentioned members of the legislature may succeed him (both have 100 ratings from Texans for Fiscal Responsibility).

The yellow district is District 5. Similar to before although it does add in more rural areas previously from CD 6. This district is 54.8% White and McCain most likely got in the high 50s or low 60s here. Jeb Hensarling is safe in this district.

The light blue district on the left side is District 12. This district is 47% White, 34% Hispanic, 15.1% Black, 2.2% Asian, 1.3% other, and .4% Native American. This district sheds the northwestern part of Tarrant County and takes in some black areas from the old 26th district, but Granger should be safe as the district still contains the cracker counties of Parker and Wise. Kay Granger is the sanest out of all the Texas Republicans so I’m fine with her representing this district. McCain probably got in the mid to high 50s here.

Dark purple district in Tarrant County is District 24. This district basically takes in areas of the old 24th, old 26th, and the Tarrant portion of the 6th district. State Senator Chris Harris may run here. I’m guessing this would be an R+8 district. This is still majority white at 51.4%.

Silver District is District 26. Sheds a lot of Denton county area and takes in the northern part of the old 24th District. Kenny Marchant would face Michael Burgess in a primary here. This district is 49.9% White, 28.1% Hispanic, 10.5% Black, 9% Asian, 2.1% other, and .4% Native American. I’m guessing this is an R+12 or R+13 district.

Pink District is District 30. This is a 42.1% Black, 35.1% Hispanic, 19.5% White, 1.8% Asian, 1.2% Other, .3% Native American District. This is probably the most democratic district in Texas as Obama probably got in the high 70s low 80s here. Eddie Bernice Johnson is the incumbent here.

Orange district in Dallas County is District 32. This is Similar to the old 32nd although it loses Richardson/North Dallas and takes in some areas from old CD 5. This is a 43% Hispanic, 41.2% White, 10% Black, 4.2% Asian, 1.3% Other, .3% Native American District. McCain probably got in the low 50s here. Pete Sessions is the incumbent here. He should hold the district in 2012, but in the long term he needs to reposition himself as more of an Olympia Snowe type republican or else he may end up in the same situation Bob Dornan did 15 years ago.

Light orange district is District 36. This takes in a lot of fast growth areas in northern Tarrant County and parts of Denton County. It also adds a precinct from Cooke County to get to the magical 698,000 number. McCain probably got around 65 percent here. Jane Nelson, a high-ranking veteran in the state senate, may run in this 71.5% White district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 03:57:38 PM
()

This is Bexar County.

Pink District is District 20. This Remains a Central San Antonio district. This is a 71.8% Hispanic district and Obama probably got around 65 percent here. Safe DEM.

Dark Brown District is District 21. . This district removes a lot of German Hill country area and adds more precincts from CD 23 in Bexar County. This district has become more Bexar based then what it was in the 1990s when it took in San Angelo and stretched all the way out to Midland/Odessa. This district is 49.7% White, 36.1% Hispanic, 8.5% Black, 3.5% Asian, .3% Native American, and 1.9% Other. McCain probably got around 55-56% here. Lamar Smith is safe here considering his seniority.

Light blue District is District 23. This is pretty similar to the previous 23rd District. I’m surprised the Hispanic % is 77.7%. Of course Canseco is Hispanic and that helps. Obama probably won this district, but by less than 5 points. This is Canseco’s test to prove that 2010 wasn’t a fluke.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 04:21:27 PM
()

This is Austin.

Light green district is District 27. Not to be confused with the old 27th district, this is similar to the old 25th District although it sheds a lot of rural areas to the east. Obama probably got around 65 percent here which is impressive considering that this is a 52.4% White district. This is a safe district for Doggett.

Purple district is District 17. This has nothing in common with the old 17th except that it keeps the Bryan/College Station area. It then takes in some rural territory from CD 10 as well as the Travis County portion of it. Michael McCaul and Bill Flores would face off in a primary here. This is a 53.7% White district. McCain probably got in the low to mid 50s here. Likely republican for the time being, although it may flip by the end of the decade.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 04:23:41 PM
()

This is eastern Texas.

Dark blue district is District 1. This is centered around the eastern cities of Tyler, Longview, Marshall, and Texarkana. This is a 66.4% White District and McCain probably got in the mid to high 60s here. Louie Gohmert is the incumbent in this safe republican district.

Pink district is the 25th district. Not to be confused with the old 25th District, this district is now located in eastern Texas. Kind of reminds me of what Charlie Wilson’s district used to look like. Bill Clinton probably won this district, but McCain easily got over 60 percent here. State Rep. Wayne Christian may run here. This is a 66.3% White district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 04:28:48 PM
()

This is the southern and gulf coast part of the state.

The pink district is the 10th District. This district was formerly the 28th district and has been renamed. It is similar to the old 28th except that the northern (read Republican) areas around Seguin have been taken off. Obama probably got in the low 60s here. This district is 89.8% Hispanic. Henry Cuellar survived 2010 in a harder district, so he is safe.

The puke colored district is District 14. This district is similar to the old 14th except that it sheds the Fort Bend County area and veers north to take in some areas that used to be in CD 25. This is a 58% White district. McCain probably got in the low to mid 60s here. Ron Paul is safe here.

Orange District is District 15. Similar to the old 15th except that it sheds some of the cracker counties to the north. Obama probably got in the low to mid 60s here. In a 88.9% Hispanic district, Hinojosa is safe.

Lavender district on the southern coast is District 28. This is basically the old 27th District renamed the 28th. This is a 71.8% Hispanic district. Obama probably got in the low 50s here. This is a test for Blake Farenthold to prove that 2010 wasn’t a fluke.

Green District is District 34. This is a 57% White District that takes in some random areas from CD 21, CD 25, CD 15, and CD 28. McCain probably got in the low 60s here. Veteran State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran may run here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 04:31:22 PM
()

This is the southwestern tip of the state. The green district in the far left corner is District 16. Pretty much the same although it veers out to take in Pecos to get to the magical 698 as the precincts in eastern El Paso county have too many people. This is an 80.1% Hispanic district and Obama probably got around 65% Here. Safe Democratic district for Reyes.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 04:40:17 PM
()

This is Central Texas.

Blue Greenish district is District 6. Smoky Joe loses the entire Tarrant portion of his district. This is a 67.4% White district and McCain probably got in the mid to high 60s here. Barton is even more safe in this district, and its not like he was vulnerable in his previous district either. This also squashes any possibility of a Chet Edwards comeback.

Tan District is District 31. Another Central Texas district with Williamson and Bell counties making up most of the population. Probably an R+14 district. John Carter is safe in this 64.7% White district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 15, 2011, 04:45:31 PM
()

This is a statewide view. Some districts I missed:

11th District (Light Green). This is similar to the old 11th, only it sheds some areas to the west and adds in some areas from the 31st (that ironically was in the Chet Edwards 11th district before the delay gerrymander). This district is 58.8% White and McCain probably got in the low 70s here. This is a safe district for Conaway.

13th District (Tan). This is now a true panhandle district. This is similar to what the 18th district used to look like, before the district was moved to Houston in 1972. The district is surprisingly only 56.7% White, but don’t let that fool you. This is easily one of the most republican districts in the country and McCain probably got in the low to mid 70s here. Thornberry of course is safe here.

19th District (puke green). This is similar to the old 19th district, except that it takes in the western part of CD 11. This is a 58.4% White district. McCain probably got in the low 70s here. Neugebauer (Naw-guh-bower) is safe here.

35th District (purple). This is a “Red River” District. It also gets the price for the whitest district at 74.4% White. McCain probably got in the high 60s or low 70s here. State Senator Craig Estes may run here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 19, 2011, 06:20:12 PM
Here is the final Harris County product. Bust-a-gene-green.

() (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/bustagreen.png/)



These districts are exactly at population per the 2010 census. Removing the blacks and putting whites in TX-29 does wonders for the results. 60% VAP on the TX-29 here should be adequate as that is just about where it was at the start of the decade.

The current TX-18 actually holds a lot of Republican territory, and the current TX-9 holds some too. It's nice to pluck that out to pick up TX-29's worst precincts.

Final percentages:

TX-9: 79.8% Obama
TX-18: 82.8% Obama
TX-29: 55.8% McCain, 31.8% white, 60.0% hispanic


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 19, 2011, 06:32:02 PM
Why are you so hell-bent on getting rid of Gene Green? He's a quiet guy and not someone to make loudmouthed comments like Alan Grayson. Plus, he represents a district that's nearly seventy percent hispanic. That map would see lawsuits by LULAC.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 19, 2011, 06:36:03 PM
Why are you so hell-bent on getting rid of Gene Green? He's a quiet guy and not someone to make loudmouthed comments like Alan Grayson. Plus, he represents a district that's nearly seventy percent hispanic. That map would see lawsuits by LULAC.

Mostly because we can. LULAC can holler as much as they want; with any luck, the right Texas Hispanic Republican can at least move into TX-29 as an open seat.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 19, 2011, 06:50:41 PM
Greene is too entrenched. He has been in congress for 20 years and in an elected office for nearly 40 years. Doing that will only put him in a position similar to Jim Matheson.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 19, 2011, 09:19:02 PM
Greene is too entrenched. He has been in congress for 20 years and in an elected office for nearly 40 years. Doing that will only put him in a position similar to Jim Matheson.

Quite possibly. Around 80-85% of that district is identical to the existing CD-29 (which of course is underpopulated and has to lose hispanic VAP regardless); the only significant change is in the northeast corner where the black dominated 70-85% precincts are chopped out, which all go into another Democratic district anyway.

Still, if Texas can vote out Ortiz, they can vote out Green.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 19, 2011, 09:50:46 PM
doubt it'll get by the DoJ, but the only real complaint against it from the community of interest perspective is not including the far western edge of East End and Denver Harbor.  And also dividing Jacinto City?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on March 19, 2011, 10:05:03 PM
Greene is too entrenched. He has been in congress for 20 years and in an elected office for nearly 40 years. Doing that will only put him in a position similar to Jim Matheson.

Quite possibly. Around 80-85% of that district is identical to the existing CD-29 (which of course is underpopulated and has to lose hispanic VAP regardless); the only significant change is in the northeast corner where the black dominated 70-85% precincts are chopped out, which all go into another Democratic district anyway.

Still, if Texas can vote out Ortiz, they can vote out Green.

Especially considering Ortiz was in a much safer district (Obama won ~53% there i think). Green will be toast if such a district survives a lawsuit (which is not a sure thing by any means)

Though you can draw a 67% Hispanic district that voted 53% McCain with a similar shape.  You just have to fine-tune the details of it and figure out a good McCain-vote:Hispanic ratio.  There are enough heavily McCain precincts on the outer edges of the district to flip the district--you just have to balance them with Heavily Hispanic districts in inner Houston with low turnouts and medium Obama margins.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 19, 2011, 10:40:16 PM

Especially considering Ortiz was in a much safer district (Obama won ~53% there i think). Green will be toast if such a district survives a lawsuit (which is not a sure thing by any means)

Though you can draw a 67% Hispanic district that voted 53% McCain with a similar shape.  You just have to fine-tune the details of it and figure out a good McCain-vote:Hispanic ratio.  There are enough heavily McCain precincts on the outer edges of the district to flip the district--you just have to balance them with Heavily Hispanic districts in inner Houston with low turnouts and medium Obama margins.

Is that 67% VAP? My district is at 65% population and 60% VAP, and as a general rule of thumb, its a 1% to 1% tradeoff, so that makes sense.

These kinds of small changes also give hispanics a strong plurality in CD-9. I don't know of any cases where districts like this have been overturned in any lawsuit; if they could be, the original TX-29 last decade would have also had problems.

The heavy black areas were all in that central area that connected the 2 big hispanic populations. I'm not sure what town is up there or if its unincorporated.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on March 19, 2011, 11:15:13 PM

Especially considering Ortiz was in a much safer district (Obama won ~53% there i think). Green will be toast if such a district survives a lawsuit (which is not a sure thing by any means)

Though you can draw a 67% Hispanic district that voted 53% McCain with a similar shape.  You just have to fine-tune the details of it and figure out a good McCain-vote:Hispanic ratio.  There are enough heavily McCain precincts on the outer edges of the district to flip the district--you just have to balance them with Heavily Hispanic districts in inner Houston with low turnouts and medium Obama margins.

Is that 67% VAP? My district is at 65% population and 60% VAP, and as a general rule of thumb, its a 1% to 1% tradeoff, so that makes sense.

These kinds of small changes also give hispanics a strong plurality in CD-9. I don't know of any cases where districts like this have been overturned in any lawsuit; if they could be, the original TX-29 last decade would have also had problems.

The heavy black areas were all in that central area that connected the 2 big hispanic populations. I'm not sure what town is up there or if its unincorporated.

67% total Population, though since the current one is like 72% Total Hispanic and much less 10 years ago, it should be fine.

Also, have you tried connecting the two sections directly?  (Cutting through the 18th right at the neck).  That territory is maybe 63% Obama and you only need a few precincts to go through.  then the 18th just wraps around the top part of the 29th and comes back down, like a fishhook.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 20, 2011, 08:18:16 PM
slightly off topic, but didn't Gene Green draw himself into power? I believe he was a state senator in the early 90s, and drew a convoluted district for himself meandering through eastern Harris County in search of democratic precincts. I believe Eddie Bernice Johnson did the same thing. You can see a map of the district here:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/jackbrooks


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 20, 2011, 09:00:36 PM
slightly off topic, but didn't Gene Green draw himself into power? I believe he was a state senator in the early 90s, and drew a convoluted district for himself meandering through eastern Harris County in search of democratic precincts. I believe Eddie Bernice Johnson did the same thing. You can see a map of the district here:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/jackbrooks
He picked a lot of the precincts, picking up more in north Houston which were White transitioning to Hispanic, vs those in east Houston.  It also extended west to Spring Branch to include apartment complexes with Hispanic census counts, but who weren't so likely to be voting.  A lot of all the fingers were due to Houston not having zoning, so they had to search out for multi-family housing.  Because it went so far west, TX-18 had to wrap around the district to get from the 3rd Ward to Acres Homes and Houston Heights and then to the 5th Ward and Kashmere Gardens and Clinton Park and Pleasantville in the northeast.   TX-18 needed to include all the northern black areas, since the Democrats were trying to protect TX-25.  You will notice that TX-25 also wraps TX-29 to include areas north of the ship channel which you might have been put in a Hispanic district.  So unlike IL-4 which actually pretends to be picking up Hispanic voters in the loop to the west, the loop in TX-18 was trying to avoid voters.

The first primary in TX-29 was between Gene Green and Ben Reyes, which was extremely close and ended up in court because of cross-over voting between the primary and runoff.  In Texas, there is not a secret ballot if you vote illegally, so you can be called to testify if you have voted in primaries of two parties.  One old man said something to the effect, I'm 75 years old, I've had a good life, and done all the things I've wanted to do, so you might as well come and put the cuffs on, because I'm not going to tell you who I voted for.

Eventually, a new election was called.  And it was also discovered that the primary had not been run on the correct boundaries, with a few precincts excluded, and others erroneously excluded.  I have a fantasy that it was a Taiwanese graduate student trying to analyze the election results, and discovered they didn't actually match the census block-defined boundaries; or that both the Reyes and Green camps knew of this, and were holding off in case of an adverse court ruling.

Eddie Bernice Johnson testified that she had included her friends in uhh,,, her district.  This may have been so that she could grant scholarships to her friends children, so it was not as corrupt as it would appear.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on March 20, 2011, 09:58:32 PM
a lot of those white transitioning to Hispanic precincts north of Houston used to be in Jack Field's district I believe. Pretty much all the democratic precincts were excised out of the district and added areas like Montgomery County and College Station to the district. He got a pretty good deal. His old district was a district where where Bush got in the low to mid 50s in 1988. The new district he was given was a 73% Bush district. The newly drawn 29th was a 58% Dukakis District.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 20, 2011, 11:03:40 PM
a lot of those white transitioning to Hispanic precincts north of Houston used to be in Jack Field's district I believe. Pretty much all the democratic precincts were excised out of the district and added areas like Montgomery County and College Station to the district. He got a pretty good deal. His old district was a district where where Bush got in the low to mid 50s in 1988. The new district he was given was a 73% Bush district. The newly drawn 29th was a 58% Dukakis District.
North Houston, not north of Houston.  The area starting at North Main, between the East Tex and North Freeways.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on April 05, 2011, 11:21:15 PM
and now for an amusing lawsuit...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7508489.html


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on April 06, 2011, 01:28:07 AM
and now for an amusing lawsuit...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7508489.html
It sounds similar to what happened in 1991.  After the legislature had passed its redistricting bills, they were challenged in a district court in Hidalgo County.  The State (Richards and Morales) conceded that the districts drawn by the legislature were illegal, and that a district court in McAllen should fashion a remedy.  It got moved into a federal court which ruled that the district court hadn't exercised due process, and drew its own plans.  Ann Richards then called a special session to redistrict again.  This was when she was comparing federal judges to infants in a high chair, and that redistricting was like hog butchering.  Most of the legislators were kept out of the process, and Texas ended up with different senate district boundaries in 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, and 1998.  In Harris County, all the Democratic House districts ended up with 5% less population than the Republican districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on April 06, 2011, 03:44:23 PM
and now for an amusing lawsuit...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7508489.html

From the link, it looks like the same type of lawsuit was successful after the 2000 census.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on April 06, 2011, 08:58:44 PM
and now for an amusing lawsuit...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7508489.html

From the link, it looks like the same type of lawsuit was successful after the 2000 census.
Cameron and Hidalgo counties sued Donald Evans, the Secretary of Commerce (Census Bureau is part of Department of Commerce) to have statistically adjusted census figures released.  The district court dismissed all the juicy claims (equal protection, due process, regulatory procedure, and the Census Act), but did grant release of the figures under the Freedom of Information Act.

The case was appealed to the 5th Circuit but it appears that everything was eventually dismissed with the agreement of the litigants.

At issue then was the claim that the counties and cities would lose money from the US government that is distributed on a per capita basis.  I couldn't find anything whether any population counts or disbursements were actually adjusted.

The lawyer in the MALC case is the same lawyer as the 2000s cases.  I don't know why they don't sue Gary Locke, though since they are claiming that it was the Census Bureau decision to not use mail out.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on April 08, 2011, 01:22:25 AM
There are some House of Representative plans submitted by outsiders on the  Texas Legislative Council website (See Districtviewer) (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/redist.htm)

MALDEF thinks it's OK to draw a district from McAllen to not quite Austin, especially if you draw another district from San Antonio to Austin that prevents the first district from actually touching Travis County.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on April 08, 2011, 01:51:40 AM
i like the pates plan. It throws Marchant, Hensarling, and Poe under the bus and also returns the districts to their natural home (17th district is again based in Abilene, 1st is based in Texarkana, 25th in Houston, 11th in Waco-Temple Area)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on April 11, 2011, 11:46:26 PM
all right this is my the last map i'll post of Texas. I drew this map in the mind of a republican opportunist. Do you think the republicans would like this map?

()
()
()
()
()
()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on April 12, 2011, 12:54:28 AM
i like the pates plan. It throws Marchant, Hensarling, and Poe under the bus and also returns the districts to their natural home (17th district is again based in Abilene, 1st is based in Texarkana, 25th in Houston, 11th in Waco-Temple Area)
It shows what political hacks the Democratic lawyers were in 2006 when they tried to disqualify Pate.  I sure hope the attorney fees weren't coming from personal funds of the Representative (other than Jackson Lee of course).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 13, 2011, 02:11:31 PM
There are some House of Representative plans submitted by outsiders on the  Texas Legislative Council website (See Districtviewer) (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/redist.htm)

MALDEF thinks it's OK to draw a district from McAllen to not quite Austin, especially if you draw another district from San Antonio to Austin that prevents the first district from actually touching Travis County.

Sounds like MALDEF should go hike over to California and ask why there are so few Latino representatives there.

I'm happy to see this though. My 27-9 plan would have 8 hispanic districts; if 9 is a real sticking point (for some reason, Al Green's plurality hispanic district doesn't count..), its easy enough to dive TX-25 into San Antonio and throw all the Austin white liberals into TX-19.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 13, 2011, 05:36:17 PM
Finally incorporated my bust-a-green move into the overall texas map.

() (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/anothertexasmap.png/)

Texas is a 67.5% McCain state after the 9 Democratic districts (and some small pieces of some neighboring Republican districts) are drawn. It's just a matter of arranging the Republicans; you probably want to keep Williamson, Mcclennan, and Bell County split apart; figure out how much you want to run Sessions into the rural areas, and you're good to go.



TX-23 is 59% VAP Hispanic and 53% McCain, TX-27 is 63% VAP Hispanic and 51% McCain, and TX-29 is 59% VAP Hispanic and 55% McCain, probably for Orlando Sanchez. Even TX-18 hits 45% VAP Hispanic.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 21, 2011, 03:09:35 PM
Damn.

GRIT has drawn what they claim to be a 29-7 map. No new district in Dallas, Gonzales and Doggett are merged. Bexar county is shattered.

http://gritnewsletter.org/?p=72


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Mr.Phips on April 21, 2011, 03:39:58 PM
Damn.

GRIT has drawn what they claim to be a 29-7 map. No new district in Dallas, Gonzales and Doggett are merged. Bexar county is shattered.

http://gritnewsletter.org/?p=72

That map will never get through the Justice Department. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on April 21, 2011, 03:49:10 PM
Damn.

GRIT has drawn what they claim to be a 29-7 map. No new district in Dallas, Gonzales and Doggett are merged. Bexar county is shattered.

http://gritnewsletter.org/?p=72

No surprise that it is possible. It is probably possible to go one further, maybe even two further. Does not mean it will meet VRA review; nothing less than a Hispanic district in Dallas (plus making a Hispanic district to "replace" Farenthold's) will do for that.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 21, 2011, 04:38:35 PM
Damn.

GRIT has drawn what they claim to be a 29-7 map. No new district in Dallas, Gonzales and Doggett are merged. Bexar county is shattered.

http://gritnewsletter.org/?p=72

No surprise that it is possible. It is probably possible to go one further, maybe even two further. Does not mean it will meet VRA review; nothing less than a Hispanic district in Dallas (plus making a Hispanic district to "replace" Farenthold's) will do for that.


That map claims to have 19 majority minority seats. Probably more than the Democratic plans. I wonder what the demographic distributions are.

I doubt its wise, as a Democratic vote dump in DFW is very smart, but its quite interesting. As drawn there TX-30 probably becomes a majority Hispanic district.

Although, the Maldef plans also slice and dice Bexar, so I doubt they care about that.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on April 21, 2011, 06:49:55 PM
Damn.

GRIT has drawn what they claim to be a 29-7 map. No new district in Dallas, Gonzales and Doggett are merged. Bexar county is shattered.

http://gritnewsletter.org/?p=72

No surprise that it is possible. It is probably possible to go one further, maybe even two further. Does not mean it will meet VRA review; nothing less than a Hispanic district in Dallas (plus making a Hispanic district to "replace" Farenthold's) will do for that.


That map claims to have 19 majority minority seats. Probably more than the Democratic plans. I wonder what the demographic distributions are.

I doubt its wise, as a Democratic vote dump in DFW is very smart, but its quite interesting. As drawn there TX-30 probably becomes a majority Hispanic district.

Although, the Maldef plans also slice and dice Bexar, so I doubt they care about that.

Minority-majority =/= VRA compliant. It must typically elect the preferred candidate of the protected minority group to comply. In theory, you could draw every single Texas district to be minority-majority; that map would certainly not meet VRA requirements.

In fact, beyond a certain point (around 12 minority seats) the more minority-majority districts they create, the less likely the map is to be VRA-compliant as the individual minority groups become more and more limited in their ability to elect their preferred candidates in each individual district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on April 21, 2011, 07:11:39 PM
the supreme court should invent a term. A VRA district has to be one where hispanics make up a majority of REGISTERED VOTERS. In case a hack like krazen starts drawing the maps, it can stop them from enacting them.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on April 21, 2011, 07:32:50 PM
How on earth are they claiming that their District 25 (Travis County - Austin) is a Republican district? 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 21, 2011, 08:14:50 PM
the supreme court should invent a term. A VRA district has to be one where hispanics make up a majority of REGISTERED VOTERS. In case a hack like krazen starts drawing the maps, it can stop them from enacting them.

I don't know if that's true. Your own state has very few districts where hispanics make up a majority of REGISTERED VOTERS. Not sure why you're complaining about GRIT.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 21, 2011, 08:20:17 PM
How on earth are they claiming that their District 25 (Travis County - Austin) is a Republican district? 

Pull up the 112 plan. The Dem districts are 16, 20, 9, 18, 27, 28, and 30, I think. 25 barely touches Travis.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on April 21, 2011, 09:40:23 PM
How on earth are they claiming that their District 25 (Travis County - Austin) is a Republican district? 

Pull up the 112 plan. The Dem districts are 16, 20, 9, 18, 27, 28, and 30, I think. 25 barely touches Travis.

Aha.  They've got the wrong plan number listed on their blog post. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on April 22, 2011, 12:14:12 AM
the supreme court should invent a term. A VRA district has to be one where hispanics make up a majority of REGISTERED VOTERS. In case a hack like krazen starts drawing the maps, it can stop them from enacting them.

No, it really wouldn't.  its not like these districts are R-leaning because most of the Hispanics aren't registered/don't vote ()though that helps), its because they vote 60-40 Democrat while the ~40% white voters vote 75-25 Republican.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on April 22, 2011, 02:31:01 AM
(plus making a Hispanic district to "replace" Farenthold's) will do for that.

Why?  Its not like they can't draw the 27th in a way that is still overwhelmingly Hispanic (like 67% VAP) that also voted for McCain.  You have to trade out Brownsville for the Harlingen area (which is way more Republican and only a little less Hispanic), and add in some of the Hispanic Republican counties more inland, but you can probably draw Farenthold a strong R District that's still easily VRA compliant.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on April 22, 2011, 05:33:09 AM
I think it is probably safe to say at this point that Texas will not use the same map through the decade.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on April 22, 2011, 07:19:06 AM
(plus making a Hispanic district to "replace" Farenthold's) will do for that.

Why?  Its not like they can't draw the 27th in a way that is still overwhelmingly Hispanic (like 67% VAP) that also voted for McCain.  You have to trade out Brownsville for the Harlingen area (which is way more Republican and only a little less Hispanic), and add in some of the Hispanic Republican counties more inland, but you can probably draw Farenthold a strong R District that's still easily VRA compliant.

Because you need to have a district that routinely elects the Hispanic voters' preferred candidate. That may be a Republican, but it seems at least unlikely. It's pretty easy to draw one district containing the Hispanic parts of Corpus Christi then stretching down to all of Cameron County, then draw another district for Farenthold that contains the white parts of Corpus and Republican areas to the north.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on April 22, 2011, 07:26:21 AM
redistricting in Texas is always so much fun...  :)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on April 28, 2011, 03:22:41 PM
Doggett found a proposed Republican map.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/04/28/a_proposed_redistricting_map_w.html

The long and short of it:

1. Doggett's district turned into a Travis-Bexar district, presumably Hispanic VRA.
2. Hispanic 33rd in Metroplex.
3. Corpus-based 35th and points north for Farenthold or someone else, his old district reverting to VRA.
4. 2nd district moves all the way into Harris County, and what used to be the 2nd in East Texas is now the 36th.
5. 34th district looks bizarre, linking Parker County to the Hill Country across the remains of Edwards' pre-Delaymander district. Presumably picking up leftover territory after the 21st and 31st districts shrink and expand into Travis.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 28, 2011, 03:31:46 PM
Doggett found a proposed Republican map.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/04/28/a_proposed_redistricting_map_w.html

The long and short of it:

1. Doggett's district turned into a Travis-Bexar district, presumably Hispanic VRA.
2. Hispanic 33rd in Metroplex.
3. Corpus-based 35th and points north for Farenthold or someone else, his old district reverting to VRA.
4. 2nd district moves all the way into Harris County, and what used to be the 2nd in East Texas is now the 36th.
5. 34th district looks bizarre, linking Parker County to the Hill Country across the remains of Edwards' pre-Delaymander district. Presumably picking up leftover territory after the 21st and 31st districts shrink and expand into Travis.

You can't see the bottom of that map. It depends on how Hidalgo is split; 27 there is almost certainly a Dem district, but 15 might not be.

That 31st is really bad. Williamson and Bell need to be split.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on April 28, 2011, 03:34:17 PM
No, it really wouldn't.  its not like these districts are R-leaning because most of the Hispanics aren't registered/don't vote ()though that helps), its because they vote 60-40 Democrat while the ~40% white voters vote 75-25 Republican.

In South Texas, if you chose the correct Hispanics, you could probably do even better than 60-40.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: rundontwalk on April 28, 2011, 04:43:14 PM
Doggett found a proposed Republican map.
I wish there were some geographical consistency there. The 11th dirstict is going to run from the New Mexican border to almost the Fort Worth suburbs. Ugh.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on April 28, 2011, 05:54:04 PM
Doggett found a proposed Republican map.

htp://ww.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/04/28/a_proposed_redistricting_map_w.html

The long and short of it:

1. Doggett's district turned into a Travis-Bexar district, presumably Hispanic VRA.
2. Hispanic 33rd in Metroplex.
3. Corpus-based 35th and points north for Farenthold or someone else, his old district reverting to VRA.
4. 2nd district moves all the way into Harris County, and what used to be the 2nd in East Texas is now the 36th.
5. 34th district looks bizarre, linking Parker County to the Hill Country across the remains of Edwards' pre-Delaymander district. Presumably picking up leftover territory after the 21st and 31st districts shrink and expand into Travis.

You can't see the bottom of that map. It depends on how Hidalgo is split; 27 there is almost certainly a Dem district, but 15 might not be.

That 31st is really bad. Williamson and Bell need to be split.



You seem to have answered my question. Apperently, it is the 15th that Pena is targeting. The other option was for him to inherit the 27th.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on April 28, 2011, 06:53:07 PM
Not an impossible plan, but from the Republican perspective the 31st is a bit questionable, though Carter will not be in trouble there, but will he serve until he's 80?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on April 29, 2011, 01:25:13 AM
Doggett found a proposed Republican map.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/04/28/a_proposed_redistricting_map_w.html

The long and short of it:

1. Doggett's district turned into a Travis-Bexar district, presumably Hispanic VRA.
2. Hispanic 33rd in Metroplex.
3. Corpus-based 35th and points north for Farenthold or someone else, his old district reverting to VRA.
4. 2nd district moves all the way into Harris County, and what used to be the 2nd in East Texas is now the 36th.
5. 34th district looks bizarre, linking Parker County to the Hill Country across the remains of Edwards' pre-Delaymander district. Presumably picking up leftover territory after the 21st and 31st districts shrink and expand into Travis.
31 doesn't go into Travis County, in fact a bit of Williamson is included in 10. 

MALDEF is demanding a Austin-San Antonio district.  When state demographers were going over the population before the redistricting committee, the Hispanic members, who happen to be lawyers, were carefully eliciting "testimony" about Hispanic growth between the two cities.

34 can be improved.  Give it Kendall, Bandera, Llano, Mason, San Saba, Mills, Hamilton, and all of Hood, so it will look like a Hill Country district.  Move some more of Travis into 21, to make up for Kerr and Bandera, and move the western stack a little bit further east (Cooke, Wise, and Parker) to make up for the loss of the other counties.   Maybe pick up a slice of Williamson.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 14, 2011, 01:15:27 PM
Rumor has it that C115 will be the plan.

DKE in panic mode.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 14, 2011, 05:21:57 PM
Link?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 14, 2011, 05:52:20 PM
http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/

Base Plan C115.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 14, 2011, 06:06:58 PM
http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/

Base Plan C115.

That map has some truly ludicrous and amateurish elements. Basically, three of the four "new" districts plus what the 34th does to the 15th. Surely they can draw a strong Republican map that doesn't look this bad. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 14, 2011, 06:08:20 PM
Also, that map splits Laredo in two. Why would anyone expect that to be more acceptable this decade than it was last time?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 14, 2011, 06:42:28 PM
Also, that map splits Laredo in two. Why would anyone expect that to be more acceptable this decade than it was last time?
The two representatives who represented Webb County (Cuellar and Bonilla) submitted a brief requesting that the split be maintained.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 14, 2011, 07:01:13 PM
Also, that map splits Laredo in two. Why would anyone expect that to be more acceptable this decade than it was last time?
The two representatives who represented Webb County (Cuellar and Bonilla) submitted a brief requesting that the split be maintained.

How was their brief received by the court?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 14, 2011, 07:17:36 PM
Wow Epic Fail.  I can draw a fairly clean 25-9-2 Gerrymander that follows the VRA (all Hispanic-majority districts have more tahn 60% VAP Hispanic).

That's just a mess, and not only that, a poorly drawn mess.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 14, 2011, 07:26:08 PM
That might end up being a 27-9 map. The 15th isn't very dem there. Though they need to smash gene green still and plop a new dallas Hispanic district, which also nicely completely eliminates the last 2 white liberals.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 14, 2011, 07:41:45 PM
That might end up being a 27-9 map. The 15th isn't very dem there. Though they need to smash gene green still and plop a new dallas Hispanic district, which also nicely completely eliminates the last 2 white liberals.

There is no conceivable way the 15th survives a court challenge.  They struck down a Hidalgo-Austin Map, what makes you think they'd approve of a Hidalgo-HOUSTON map?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 14, 2011, 07:55:07 PM
Also, that map splits Laredo in two. Why would anyone expect that to be more acceptable this decade than it was last time?

A lot of meaningful objectionss can be made to the map. Splitting Laredo is simply not one of them.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 14, 2011, 08:01:56 PM
That might end up being a 27-9 map. The 15th isn't very dem there. Though they need to smash gene green still and plop a new dallas Hispanic district, which also nicely completely eliminates the last 2 white liberals.

There is no conceivable way the 15th survives a court challenge.  They struck down a Hidalgo-Austin Map, what makes you think they'd approve of a Hidalgo-HOUSTON map?

While the district may very well be challenged in court, it simply is "conceivable" that the district is upheld. Courts have approved baconmandering South Texas for decades. Failing to baconmander South Texas would result in a couple of very Hispanic districts along the Rio Grand, and series of more marginal districts to the North. That sounds fine with me.

The appearance of the district might not even be an issue.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 14, 2011, 09:18:24 PM
I'm putting this one into Dave's App right now, but it'll will take some time.

I've only done the Dallas metro (which is where Laubenberg lives), and it is a pretty good (IMO) gerrymander of that place without the Hispanic district (which makes me question whether it will be legal under VRA). 

Basically, every CD (except CD-30, of course) is at least 55% McCain, white majority, and less than 30% Hispanic.  CD-24 and CD-32 are bumped up a couple of points (CD-24 from 55 to 57; CD-32 from 53 to 55, respectively).  I think you can improve these another point or two, but the map will be even uglier.

CD-5 and CD-12 are bumped down to compensate (CD-5 from 63 to 58 and CD-12 from 63 to 56, respectively). I think even a more careful gerrymander could up CD-5 and CD-12 a couple of points (more effectively than CD-24 and CD-32), with CD-5 taking from CD-6 and CD-4 and CD-12 taking from CD-26 and new CD-36 (which is an ugly, but effective gerrymander), but CD-5 and CD-12 are done correctly in that they take in fast-growing white areas in the outskirts of the Dallas metro (CD-12 - Parker County, CD-5 - Kaufman County).

Food for thought.  More later.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 14, 2011, 09:33:27 PM
That might end up being a 27-9 map. The 15th isn't very dem there. Though they need to smash gene green still and plop a new dallas Hispanic district, which also nicely completely eliminates the last 2 white liberals.

There is no conceivable way the 15th survives a court challenge.  They struck down a Hidalgo-Austin Map, what makes you think they'd approve of a Hidalgo-HOUSTON map?

While the district may very well be challenged in court, it simply is "conceivable" that the district is upheld. Courts have approved baconmandering South Texas for decades. Failing to baconmander South Texas would result in a couple of very Hispanic districts along the Rio Grand, and series of more marginal districts to the North. That sounds fine with me.

The appearance of the district might not even be an issue.

yeah, but that was back when the Northern part of those districts were overwhelmingly white and needed the Border-Hispanic population to get by the VRA.

You don't really need that anymore.  I can draw 5 Hispanic-Majority Districts in the South Border-San Antonio Area that are all over 60% VAP Hispanic with only 1 "Baconmader", and that's to take Harlingen and put it in a Corpus-Christi District.  Two whole districts are on the South Border (Brownsville to Edinburg, and McAllen to Laredo) that are over 90% Hispanic each and the rest of the map still works.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on May 14, 2011, 10:39:36 PM
I remember Laubenberg back when I lived in the DFW Metroplex. She is basically a clone of your stereotypical neorepublican woman (by neorepublican I mean more like musgrave or blackburn as opposed to the old order of republican women like Margaret Chase Smith or Connie Morella). I hated her then and I hate her now, but I actually sort of like her new plan. It makes a lot of competitive districts so that if another year like 1974 happens, the democrats could maybe hold 14-15 seats.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 14, 2011, 11:07:12 PM
Hmmm...  I wonder whether this is Joe Barton's message to Mr. Lamar Smith.  Smith's CD gets reduced to 52% McCain.  lol  Of course, Smith does get the fast-growing areas...

Canseco's CD becomes 55% McCain, btw.

In DFW, it's a pretty good gerrymander.  Outside DFW, it is fairly inefficient from what I'm seeing, so far.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 14, 2011, 11:39:05 PM
That might end up being a 27-9 map. The 15th isn't very dem there. Though they need to smash gene green still and plop a new dallas Hispanic district, which also nicely completely eliminates the last 2 white liberals.

There is no conceivable way the 15th survives a court challenge.  They struck down a Hidalgo-Austin Map, what makes you think they'd approve of a Hidalgo-HOUSTON map?

The question is whether the 15th has a separate distinct hispanic population on the Houston side, and the vap issue. Texas GOP won't mess up vap again, former I can't tell.

The dallas map probably holds through the decade though. Did they at least get the black population out of the 29th?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 15, 2011, 02:26:34 AM
Also, that map splits Laredo in two. Why would anyone expect that to be more acceptable this decade than it was last time?
The two representatives who represented Webb County (Cuellar and Bonilla) submitted a brief requesting that the split be maintained.

How was their brief received by the court?

The court said we received 14 different maps and we ignored them all.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 15, 2011, 02:27:43 AM

The question is whether the 15th has a separate distinct hispanic population on the Houston side, and the vap issue. Texas GOP won't mess up vap again, former I can't tell.

The dallas map probably holds through the decade though. Did they at least get the black population out of the 29th?

Nope.  In fact aside from throwing Galveston into the new 27th and splitting the 14th and 22nd more cleanly, the Houston map is basically identical to the current one.  I don't know why though--doing that is easy and it takes the 29th from a 62% Obama district to like a 55% one that's actually MORE Hispanic (depending on what you add to compensate though).  Through in the rest of Pasadena, and it winds up a ~70% Hispanic district (66% Hispanic VAP) that voted for McCain.

Though the 22nd is probably under 55% McCain now too, and the 10th looks like it takes in even more of Austin.  Yeah, this is a bad map.  Its ugly and pretty crappy outside of the DFW area, which is the ugliest in the State and will probably get struck down out of sheer ugliness, let alone Population Cracking of the Hispanics there.  I mean, the 31st is probably only about 53% McCain because it takes in Fort Hood (Democratic bastion) instead of the Temple area of Bell County (Republican Bastion).  Its not like Bill Flores needs the extra support--Its an uglyness created that Hurts the Republican incumbent.

Though I toyed with it for a bit, and you can draw about a 62% Hispanic district if you take it from Fort Worth to NE Dallas that looks a bit nicer than that map


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 15, 2011, 05:19:46 AM
That might end up being a 27-9 map. The 15th isn't very dem there. Though they need to smash gene green still and plop a new dallas Hispanic district, which also nicely completely eliminates the last 2 white liberals.

Also, Unless I've missed something, that map only adds 1 net Hispanic-Majority district (33rd and 34th created as Hispanic-majority, and 25th turned into Hispanic-majority, but 23rd and 27th are no longer Hispanic-majority).  I don't think the Courts will allow only 1 new Hispanic Majority District, particularly one that's split between Austin and San Antonio like the 25th currently is.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on May 15, 2011, 12:24:46 PM
I like the map, but does anyone agree that the Dallas map is pure bullsh!t. In 1988, Michael Dukakis won two districts in Dallas, the 5th and 24th, even though George W. Bush carried the county by a 58-42 margin. In 2008, Barack Obama won the county 57-43, yet only won a single district (the 30th) in Dallas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 15, 2011, 12:49:26 PM
I like the map, but does anyone agree that the Dallas map is pure bullsh!t. In 1988, Michael Dukakis won two districts in Dallas, the 5th and 24th, even though George W. Bush carried the county by a 58-42 margin. In 2008, Barack Obama won the county 57-43, yet only won a single district (the 30th) in Dallas.

Of course--The County is basically a Bunch of Blacks in South Dallas surrounded by swing-y areas.  Under a Democratic Gerrymander, said blacks were split up to swing more Districts to the Democrats.  Under a Republican Gerrymander, the Blacks are all concentrated into one district and the swing areas are lumped with heavily Republican areas in the surrounding counties.  Its Gerrymandering 101.  He who draws the lines controls the elections.

Although to be honest Obama would still probably only have won 2 maps in DFW under a fair plan (South Dallas one and Fort Worth one), mostly because the rest of the area is either Uber-Republican Suburbs or lean Republican Cities (Garland, Mesquite, Arlington, North Dallas if it was its own city etc.).  Outside of the Heavily Liberal South Dallas Burbs and Grand Prairie I don't think Obama won a single small city there.  You would however have like 2-3 others that voted barely for McCain on the order of like 51-52% that a Democrat could conceivably win.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: CatoMinor on May 15, 2011, 04:23:59 PM
Doggett found a proposed Republican map.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/04/28/a_proposed_redistricting_map_w.html



I much prefer the 8th district in this map. It keeps my house and the university I attend in the same district. (At least It appears to, the line looks like it goes through the middle of Walker county)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 15, 2011, 05:41:47 PM
Apparently this Laudenberg woman isn't on the redistricting committee, so the map (C115) is probably not the one the Republicans intend to pass.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 18, 2011, 12:44:46 AM
Can Someone help me figure out how to post my screenshots of my TX Gerrymander?  I got the pics saved in Photoshop, but now Photo-bucket apparently can't find them in their folder.  Do i need to convert them to something else instead?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 18, 2011, 07:44:44 AM
Can Someone help me figure out how to post my screenshots of my TX Gerrymander?  I got the pics saved in Photoshop, but now Photo-bucket apparently can't find them in their folder.  Do i need to convert them to something else instead?

You can store pictures on this site, I believe.  Go to gallery.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 19, 2011, 04:49:16 PM
Okay, I got my 24-9-3 (Pretty) Clean VRA-compliant Texas R Gerrymander uploaded.

Full State:
()

Houston Area:
()

DFW:
()

Overall, I added 2 Hispanic Majority Districts (35th in DFW, and the 11th in West Texas is now Hispanic-Majority), a Black Majority District (TX-30 in Dallas is now 50.2% Black and 51.2% Black VAP), and a plurality Hispanic district (TX-25 in Austin).

All Hispanic-majority Districts except the 35th are at least 59% VAP Hispanic, all but the 35th and the 11th are at least 61% VAP Hispanic.  TX-27, TX-23 and TX-29 are all McCain-Voting districts as well, although they are all under 55% McCain so i listed them as "swing" districts since they're really not Safe.  But even assuming worst case for the GOP, and it loses all 3, this map is still a solid 24-12 Gerrymander, which represents a 4-seat pickup from 2008.

District-by-District analysis coming shortly.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 19, 2011, 05:06:49 PM
It's a whole lot easier when you can do the Austin pack, but I suspect that you're going to be required to do the Austin-San Antonio Hispanic thing.  Your TX-11 is a little strange also.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 19, 2011, 06:25:53 PM
It's a whole lot easier when you can do the Austin pack, but I suspect that you're going to be required to do the Austin-San Antonio Hispanic thing.  Your TX-11 is a little strange also.

Well, its the only place in the State where you can draw another Hispanic-Majority district without really ugly gerrymandering, so It'll probably stand.  Its more of a community of interest than the Austin-SA district, which you can't actually do under this map (not enough Hispanics free in SA, both TX-20 and TX-23 are at 62% VRA Hispanic, and they can't afford to give up any more to boost TX-25.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 19, 2011, 07:32:18 PM
District 1:
()

This district doesn't change much.  Incumbent Louie Gohmert is Safe in this District, which voted 69% for McCain

District 2: (Dark Green)
()

This district gets completely confined to Harris County, and as a result gets considerably more Republican, taking in some parts of the current TX-7 and TX-10 while losing Swing-y Beaumont and Port Arthur to the 36th.  It goes from 60% McCain to 64.5% McCain, and is a Safe R district for incumbent Ted Poe

District 3:
()

This District is now completely inside Collins county, taking in Plano and some surrounding Suburbs.  It gets about 5 points more R, and now voted 63% McCain.  Incumbent Sam Johnson is Safe

District 4:
()

This district has the safe rough shape as the current district, but gives up alot of its Dallas Suburbs to the 3rd and 32nd districts.  As a result, it gets about a point more Republican, going from 69.5% McCain to 70.5% McCain.  Incumbent Ralph Hall is Safe here, although his home in Rockwall is very inconveniently place and prevents me from shoring up the 32nd any more.  If he were to retire or move further out from downtown, i could do some reshuffling and make this a primarily rural district.  Either way Safe R.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 19, 2011, 07:47:26 PM
District 5:
()

This district Takes in more of the Garland and NorthEast Dallas, and as a result gets about a point and a half more Democrat.  However, incumbent Jeb Hensarling is still safe in this 62% McCain District (assuming I didn't draw him out of his district, and I don't know precisely where he lives).  Safe R.

District 6:
()

This district loses Arlington and some of its Southern rural counties, but picks up Waco and Grand Prarie in Southwest Dallas county.  It goes from 60% McCain to 62% McCain, though incumbent Joe Barton might not like how much new territory he's getting.  Safe R

District 7:
()

This District loses some of its western swing suburbs and picks up alot of Republican and swing territory from the current 18th near central Houston (that i presume was intended to eliminate a Democratic incumbent).  It gets about a point more Republican, going from 58% McCain to 59% McCain.  Incumbent John Culberson is safe here in this reliably Republican district.

District 8:
()

Much like the 2nd District, this district is now completely based in the Overwhelmingly Conservative Northern Houston Suburbs.  Montgomery county is kept together for incumbent Kevin Brady, and the district remains overwhelmingly Republican.  Safe R


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 19, 2011, 08:02:51 PM
District 9:
()

This district is basically unchanged.  I tried to balance its Black population with the 18th to keep 2 Black-influenced districts, but this one wound up still being plurality VAP Hispanic, but by less than a point.  Incumbent Al Green should be safe in this heavily Minority 79% Obama District.  Save D

District 10:
()

This district changes Radically, and Incumbent Michael McCaul is drawn out of it.  It changed from a finger district between the Heavily Republican parts of Houston and White Liberal Austin, to covering the territory between Bexar and Travis counties.  Its about halfway split between Swing-y South Austin Suburbs and Heavily Republican San Antonio Suburbs.  Incumbent McCaul will probalby not be happy with this district, but its impossible to preserve his district in anything resembleing a clean map, so he'll have to make do with either this district or TX-33, which covers West Austin Suburbs.  Though at 60% McCain, it'll be safe R no matter who runs in it.

District 11:
()

This is the first new Hispanic-Majority VAP district, covering most of West Texas outside of El Paso.  Its 59% VAP Hispanic, and has to include some finger portions to get up to that (including forcing El Paso-based 16th to take some white areas of the big bend to compensate).  The District is based in Odessa/Midland, but steches to San Angelo, El Paso, Eagle Pass, and almost up to Lubbock.

While a kind of ugly district, I think this is the cleanest way to add a 9th Hispanic-Majority district in the state.  It doesn't hurt that its also 61% McCain, though incumbent Mike Conway is probably not going to be happy with a Hispanic-Majority district.  Safe R either way though.

District 12:
()

This District Doesn't change much from its current form.  Its still basically the White and Republican areas of Fort Worth along with the Surrounding Suburbs.  It has gotten about a point more Republican however, and incumbent Kay Granger is Safe in this 64% McCain District.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 19, 2011, 08:16:18 PM
District 13:
()

This District gets alot cleaner than its current counterpart.  It now stretches from Amarillo to Wichita falls, with most of the rural areas West and Southwest of Oklahoma it in.  Incumbent Mac Thornberry is safe in this district, which is about equally as Republican as its would-be predecessor.  McCain got 76% of the Vote here.

District 14:
()

This District consolidates around the Houston Suburbs, picking up the rest of Galveston County along with most of Brazoria county and Southeast Harris County.  Its significantly more Democratic than the current 14th, but still voted 59% for McCain, so Paul should be safe here barring any major backlash against his unique political style.  Safe R

District 15:
()

This is the one that I think is going to be the most controversial, since its basically a Hispanic pack.  At 91% VAP Hispanic, it would be (along with its neighbor the 28th) the most Hispanic district in the US, by a ton.  However, the fact that this district represents a legitimate community of interest instead of a line of counties stretching from the border to Houston (and that the bacon-manderring is no longer needed to satisfy the VRA), I think it'll pass in court.  Incumbent Rueben Hinojosa is very safe here, as the district would have voted 74% Obama (though with extremely low turnout).

District 16: (Darker Green)
()

This district is basically unchanged from its current form despite adding thousands of square miles of west Texas nothing.  its still overwhelmingly based in El Paso, still Safely Democrat, and Still around 65% Obama.  Democratic Incumbent Silvestre Reyes is safe here.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 19, 2011, 08:34:12 PM
District 17:
()

This was basically my left-over district, covering a long stretch of rural territory from the coast to North of Houston.  Incumbent Bill Flores is getting a lot of new territory here, but at 64% McCain, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.  The only oddity is that I threw in a bunch of D-leaning West Harris Suburbs, (they had to go somewhere),  but that can be easily traded to the 8th for parts of Montgomery county if necessary.  Safe R

District 18: (Yellow Curved one)
()

This district is ugly.  Really ugly.  It forms a sort of a toilet seat around the 29th district.  However i got this one back to plurality black VAP, so there probably shouldn't be any racial problems.  its shape comes from the fact that I connected the two prongs of the 29th though the middle of its current form, so its overall location doesn't change much.  It does however get a few points more Democratic, and at 81% Obama should be safe for any Democrat to hold.

District 19:
()

This district takes in most of West-Central Texas, stretching from Lubbock in the Northwest to San Angelo in the South to Abilene in the East.  Incumbent Randy Neugebauer is safe here, in a district that gave McCain 72% of the Vote.  Safe R

District 20: (Pink)
()

This district moves slightly north from its previous form, taking in some more swing areas of northern San Antonio in exchange for some heavily Hispanic precincts in the South.  As a results, it gets a bit less Hispanic (only 62% Hispanic VAP), but it also gets 3 points more Democratic, so incumbent Charlie Gonzalez is safe here, in a district that gave Obama 66% of the vote.  Safe D

District 21: (Brown)
()

This district gets completely confined to Bexar County.  However, it takes all the Republican parts, so it still voted 59% for McCain, and incumbent Lamar Smith is safe here.  The reason for this districts shape is because I needed an "excuse" to crack southern San Antonio, and fitting this district entirely in Bexar county worked out perfectly for that.  Safe R


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 20, 2011, 10:18:56 PM
Some observations:

1) The key to making a GOP Texas gerrymander safe for 10 years is two-fold - 1) utilize West Texas rural areas to eliminate certain issues in the I-35 corridor; 2) connect Democratic areas in the inner cities with suburbs that are likely to grow.  Too many Republicans are still locked in one place, imo.  My proposed map #1 (to be posted tomorrow) is a bit uglier, but it deals with this issue better.
2) I think the TX-11 thing is unnecessary and can be handled better.  It is of questionable legality, anyways.
3) Dividing Montgomery County in half eliminates all problems in the Houston area for Republicans.  I would do it without thinking.
4) There's no need to crack the South SA barrio if you do the Austin-San Antonio Hispanic thing.  And it allows you to let TX-20 take in most of the annoying for Republicans Leon Valley area, as Hispanics take over.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on May 20, 2011, 11:20:26 PM
here is something cool. You can make a district based solely upon the excess of other districts. Here would be the 34th district in Texas that takes off excess population from the 3rd, 4th, 12th, 24th, and 26th.

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 21, 2011, 04:50:33 PM
District 22:
()

This district takes up most of Fort Bend Country, parts of west Harris County, and western Brazoria county.  As a result it gets a bit more Republican, and at 60% McCain, it should be safe for incumbent Pete Olsen.

District 23:
()

This district is now based almost entirely around San Antonio and some rural areas to the East.  Its only about half a point less Hispanic than its current incarnation, but at 52% McCain it should be safer for incumbent Quico Canseco, after trading out the somewhat Hispanic NE San Antonio for the somewhat Hispanic Victoria area, which is far more Republican.  Its probably a Republican-leaning Swing District

District 24:
()

This district sheds its southern half, and is now concentrated around NE Tarrant County.  As a result, it gets significantly Whiter and more Republican, as it would have voted 63% McCain in 2008.  If incumbent Kenny Marchant can be convinced to move into the Tarrant county portino of the district, Coppel and the surrouding Republican areas can be put into the 32nd to make it safer.

District 25:
()

This district is basically an Austin-Pack, though I made sure it wound up being at least plurality Hispanic.  Incumbent LLoyd Dogget will be much safer in this 75% Obama District.

District 26:
()

This District loses its portion of tarrant county, and as a result is now much more Republican.  It takes in parts of Collins County and more of the rural areas north of Dallas, and at 63% McCain, should be safe for Incumbent Michael Burgess.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 21, 2011, 05:00:18 PM
District 27:

()

This district doesn't change much from its current incarnation, although it does trade out Brownsville for the much more Republican Harlington in South Texas.  Keeping Corpus Christi intact makes solidifying this district a problem since it can't really go anywhere else, but i did make it 5 points more Republican (to 51% McCain), so incumbent Blake Farenthold should be much safe here in 2012.  Lean R at worst

District 28:

()

This is the other South-Texas Based district, and like the 15th its about 90% Hispanic and 70% Obama.  Incumbent Henry Ceullar is very safe here, though he might face a primary challenge from a more Liberal Hispanic.

District 29:

()

This is the Houston Hispanic-Majority District, and it gets significantly more Republican.  I basically cut out all the Black-heavy parts and replaced them with heavily Republican parts in SE Harris county.  It goes from 63% Obama to 54% McCain while still under 25% White.  This should be a Republican pickup, although incumbent Gene Green has won in most of this territory before.  Lean R

District 30:

()

This district loses its heavily HIspanic parts to the 35th, but gains the black parts of Tarrant County.  As a result, it gets more slightly more Democrat and Blacker, and is now 51% VAP Black.  Incumbent Eddie Bernice Johnson is safe here


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on May 21, 2011, 08:05:03 PM
enjoy trying to get rid of Gene Green. Even if it has minority VAP, that probably won't stand up in court.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 21, 2011, 08:30:24 PM
Dgov, what do you think of this plan to create 2 hispanic districts? Not that I buy the nonsense that you can't remove the blacks from the 29th district, but its quite easy to push the 18th over the edge anyway.

() (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/alternateharris.png/)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 21, 2011, 08:48:15 PM
enjoy trying to get rid of Gene Green. Even if it has minority VAP, that probably won't stand up in court.

New Jersey Democrats did a very similar thing to LD-33.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 21, 2011, 09:04:56 PM
The district is a bit more Democratic on a local level and Gene Green is a strong politician, so don't think that he is done, but I wouldn't want to be running in a wave year there.

I don't expect Texas Republicans to be this smart, though.  The two maps they've come up with so far have been very uncreative, imo.

As for legality, any map drafted will be challenged, so you might as well take chances.  As I said before, having grown up in this area, it is hard for me to argue against bleaching from a community of interest perspective in the way these maps are drawn, as black areas where Hispanics have infiltrated are quite different than white areas where Hispanics have infiltrated (these areas were Hispanic for much longer).  There are other aspects of challenge, of course.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 21, 2011, 09:42:50 PM
District 31:

()

This district doesn't really change much--It loses its northern Rural areas and Fort Hood in exchange for some rural areas NE of Austin.  At 59% McCain, incumbent John Carter should probably be safe here for the time being.  Safe R

District 32:

()

This district is a bit tricky, since its currently only marginally Republican and has Republican incumbents to the West, NW, North, NE, and East of it, boxing it in from the heavily Republican territory further out from Dallas.  I did manage to get it up to 58% McCain from its current 53%, although its still not as safe as I would like.  If incumbent Ralph hall or Kenny Marchant could be persuaded to either retire or move, this district could easily get up to 61% McCain.


District 33:

()

This district is the first new one, and it takes in 3 very different demographic areas:  the marginally Republican West Austin Suburbs, fairly democratic Fort Hood, and heavily Republican Central Texas.  It all evens out to about 61% McCain, so an easy Republican pickup no matter who runs here.

District 34:

()

This district is the 2nd new one, and takes in most of Arlington and the Southwest Fort Worth Suburbs.  At 63% McCain, its about as safe as most other Dallas-based Republican Districts, and should probably elect an Arlington Republican.  Safe R

District 35:

()

This district is the new Hispanic-Majority VAP one in the Metroplex.  It stretches from Fort Worth to Dallas to Garland, and although its only 55% VAP Hispanic, I don't think it will be much of an issue given that Metroplex Hispanics are so spread out that a district this ugly is basically required to get the Hispanic VAP up to even that.  At 69% Obama, its probably Safe D for whoever decides to run here.

District 36:

()

This district covers the Beaumont/Port Arthur area along with the rural territory north of it.  This area is historically Democratic (Delay actually removed a district roughly this shape in 2003), but turned hard Republican over the last few years, so at 64% McCain it should probably be safe for any R.  If necessary, you can trade territory with the Montgomery-based 8th to shore it up some more, but i don't think thats currently necessary.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 21, 2011, 09:51:33 PM
The district is a bit more Democratic on a local level and Gene Green is a strong politician, so don't think that he is done, but I wouldn't want to be running in a wave year there.

I don't expect Texas Republicans to be this smart, though.  The two maps they've come up with so far have been very uncreative, imo.

As for legality, any map drafted will be challenged, so you might as well take chances.  As I said before, having grown up in this area, it is hard for me to argue against bleaching from a community of interest perspective in the way these maps are drawn, as black areas where Hispanics have infiltrated are quite different than white areas where Hispanics have infiltrated (these areas were Hispanic for much longer).  There are other aspects of challenge, of course.

I know, though the districts itself would be like the 3rd most Republican district represented by a Democrat in the country if he survives, and its not like it makes any of the Republican districts weaker if you don't try that.

Also, at the very least you're going to force Green to run as more of a Conservative than he currently is, which I'd consider a win.  Considering he won 65% in a 62% Obama district in 2010 also speaks highly of his strength as an incumbent, but that proportionally would mean he would have only gotten about 48% in 2010 in this district (a 17-point drop), so its not like he would be totally unbeatable, particularly if he's actually targeted by the RPOT.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 21, 2011, 09:57:20 PM
Just to make things clear, this map was designed to be the cleanest Safe R map rather than the best map in general, which is why o tried to keep some counties and COI intact and mess up others.

For example, I fully expect a legal challenge to the 23rd and 27th districts in this map, but I figure that unless the courts are using a straight "Hispanics must vote for the winner" classification (Which i doubt since they drew the current 15th, 27th, 28th, and 23rd as Bush districts in 2006), they should hold up.  Aside from the fact that they voted for McCain, neither district is particularly ugly, and in the 23rds case is actually a better COI than the current map.  Basically the Republicans can use the excuse of repairing COI influence to give themselves a safer map for their two most vulnerable incumbents, and protect a gerrymander from an ethnic-rights lawsuit.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 21, 2011, 10:00:21 PM
enjoy trying to get rid of Gene Green. Even if it has minority VAP, that probably won't stand up in court.

Technically the excuse is to keep the 18th and 9th as Black-controlled (since i basically just removed all the 20-30% Black precincts from the 29th and put them in the 18th.  There's really no other way to do it, since the 29th has basically the only other accessible blacks in the entire Houston area.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Capitan Zapp Brannigan on May 22, 2011, 08:51:10 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/us/22ttramsey.html

Key quote:
Quote
When it comes to Congressional redistricting in Texas, inaction is louder than words. It’s all but certain now that when Texans go to the polls next year, they’ll elect their 36 members of Congress from maps drawn by federal judges — not by state legislators.


I can't imagine that Perry would ever let this happen.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 22, 2011, 09:01:01 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/us/22ttramsey.html

Key quote:
Quote
When it comes to Congressional redistricting in Texas, inaction is louder than words. It’s all but certain now that when Texans go to the polls next year, they’ll elect their 36 members of Congress from maps drawn by federal judges — not by state legislators.


I can't imagine that Perry would ever let this happen.

Basically, they've got two weeks.  The budget is the other big thing that has to happen, and even though there is a general framework, details are not exactly in stone yet.  I don't know whether they'll be able to accomplish both, and Texas redistricters have not shown great creativity so far, which means they may prefer the court to draw the boundaries and wait, as the court tends to protect incumbents.  We'll see.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Deldem on May 22, 2011, 09:17:07 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/us/22ttramsey.html

Key quote:
Quote
When it comes to Congressional redistricting in Texas, inaction is louder than words. It’s all but certain now that when Texans go to the polls next year, they’ll elect their 36 members of Congress from maps drawn by federal judges — not by state legislators.


I can't imagine that Perry would ever let this happen.

Basically, they've got two weeks.  The budget is the other big thing that has to happen, and even though there is a general framework, details are not exactly in stone yet.  I don't know whether they'll be able to accomplish both, and Texas redistricters have not shown great creativity so far, which means they may prefer the court to draw the boundaries and wait, as the court tends to protect incumbents.  We'll see.
They could call a special session. They did it in 2003. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Perry did it again.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 22, 2011, 09:34:42 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/us/22ttramsey.html

Key quote:
Quote
When it comes to Congressional redistricting in Texas, inaction is louder than words. It’s all but certain now that when Texans go to the polls next year, they’ll elect their 36 members of Congress from maps drawn by federal judges — not by state legislators.

I can't imagine that Perry would ever let this happen.
The senate and house redistricting bills were passed yesterday.

It is pretty likely that there will be a special session to deal with redistricting, plus cleanup of everything that doesn't get finished this week.  Perry gets to set the agenda.  Traditionally, everyone can file bills and they can be taken up in committee, but they can't be passed unless they are on the call or added to the call.

State courts get first crack at redistricting.  In 2001, a state court drew a very nice congressional map, and then Pete Laney queered the deal.  The Texas Supreme Court threw out the state map.  It was only then that the federal court took over.

The federal district court drew a map that maintained existing boundaries to the extent possible (deferring to the legislative intent as expressed in past maps, and locating new districts where there was the most excess population.  This actually works out well for Republicans because a federal court won't draw a contorted district in DFW in an area where the population has not been increasing.  A federal court won't draw another fajita strip in South Texas.  And if the federal court draws the boundaries, it is not subject to Section 5 pre-clearance.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on May 22, 2011, 10:53:02 PM
i know this is slightly off topic, but I heard somewhere recently that Drew Brees had a grandfather who was a congressman in the 1970s and 1980s. Did any of you guys know this?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: RI on May 22, 2011, 10:57:32 PM
i know this is slightly off topic, but I heard somewhere recently that Drew Brees had a grandfather who was a congressman in the 1970s and 1980s. Did any of you guys know this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hightower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hightower)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 24, 2011, 09:35:38 AM
Rep. Barton files in state in Navarro County, at 12:01 A.M. Sunday.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html (http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html)



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on May 24, 2011, 11:02:28 AM
Rep. Barton files in state in Navarro County, at 12:01 A.M. Sunday.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html (http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html)



How is this expected to impact the map?  Any chance of the court's map being less gerrymandered than what the legislature would've produced.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 25, 2011, 09:00:05 AM
Rep. Barton files in state in Navarro County, at 12:01 A.M. Sunday.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html (http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html)



http://jacksonvilleprogress.com/local/x108199430/Congressional-redistricting-likely-in-special-session

Congressional redistricting likely in special session





These clowns basically need someone to tell them what to do and I'm glad Barton is stepping up to the plate.

Politico though is throwing out the numbers. Smith plan is apparently a 25-11 plan, which is somewhat lame, but they claim Barton's plan is also a 25-11 plan, which is just silly as the Barton plan doesn't create the most important Dem district to make. Looking at that plan, Barton's is 26-10 that gives back the Farenholdt district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 26, 2011, 03:27:28 AM
Rep. Barton files in state in Navarro County, at 12:01 A.M. Sunday.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html (http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/23/3097836/facing-legislative-inaction-barton.html)


How is this expected to impact the map?  Any chance of the court's map being less gerrymandered than what the legislature would've produced.
A federal court is required to follow past legislative intent.  They can only make the minimal changes to make the plan legal.  If you look at the 2001 plan, they left as much of the 1991/2/6 gerrymander in place as possible.

A state court might be a little more aggressive, but you could end up having it appealed and overturned.  That is what more or less happened in 2001.  A state court plan would still need to be precleared.

The legislature just moved the filing deadline to November-December (2011).  So a plan probably has to be in place by the first of October.  If it is a State plan, you would have to begin preclearance in early August.





Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 29, 2011, 09:06:52 AM
Perry says he'll call a special session once they have a deal.

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-redistricting/redistricting/perry-session-on-congressional-maps-possible/


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on May 31, 2011, 12:23:47 AM
Any map that means Green could possibly lose won't get preclearance, and would probably be found illegal in court.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 31, 2011, 02:41:34 AM
Any map that means Green could possibly lose won't get preclearance, and would probably be found illegal in court.

Why?  Is Gene Green's incumbency protected under the VRA?

Also, as I mentioned earlier, you can make the district much more Hispanic (to about 65-67% VAP Hispanic) without making it much less Republican (about 52% McCain).

If the Courts are going to shoot down a 65% Hispanic VAP District (More than his current one was in 2000 BTW), they're going to shoot down any map the Republicans propose.  Even then, unless the Courts decide to radically redraw the map instead of just adding back in the 60% Hispanic/30% Black precincts I threw into the 18th, there's really no risk to any other Republican incumbents.  And again, in that case they'd throw out any Republican map anyway.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on May 31, 2011, 07:04:51 AM
Gene Green specifically is not protected, but the preferred Hispanic candidate is. Any 52% McCain district would fail the VRA because it would not typically elect the preferred candidate of the Hispanic voters, which makes it an illegal dilution of Hispanic voting power--regardless of how heavily Hispanic the seat is. (Assuming, of course, that the preferred Hispanic candidate is a Democrat, which they usually are. It is possible, though, to draw 55% Hispanic seats in South Florida that would elect only Democrats. That would likely also be illegal.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 08:06:13 AM
Perry says he'll call a special session once they have a deal.

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-redistricting/redistricting/perry-session-on-congressional-maps-possible/

Apparently its a go. Dewhurst is putting it on the special session, under majority vote  rather than 2/3.


http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2011/05/31/redistricting_map_splits_travi.html?cxntfid=blogs_postcards


Hispanics of course are getting the Doggett district. That looks like a done deal. They definitely took a play from the Will County playbook.

At least among the leaders of the House and Senate, this plan looks like consensus.





Travis County would be split into five congressional districts, up from three, under a redistricting map proposed this morning by the leaders of the Texas House and Senate Redistricting committees.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 10:11:49 AM
And, wow.

http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/

Plan 125 - PLANC125 - SOLOMONS-SELIGER CONGRESSIONAL PROPOSAL
 
This might just be it. And it is glorious in its own way. This could be the 27-9 map we're looking for.

The 33rd connects Arlington with Parker County. Safe R.

The 34th is the new Solomon Ortiz district that bypasses Nueces County and picks up some Hidalgo County Democrats.

The 15th might go Republican at a glance. The 28th experty snakes into Bexar County to grab what I think are the Bexar County blacks, which keeps the Hispanic VAP down. The 20th moves into the Leon Valley. The 23rd grabs a lot more conservative whites and ditches the most liberal hispanics.

The 35th is the vacant Austin to San Antonio district, probably Hispanic, while the 25th becomes a safe R.

The 36th is an absurdity connecting downtown Houston with Grimes County, Tyler County, and Beaumont/Port Arthur. Safe R as well. The 36th is pretty much the height of absurdity.

Tarrant is cracked 5 ways. Travis is cracked 5 ways. Dallas is cracked 5 ways. Harris is part of 9 Congressional districts....



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2011, 10:36:13 AM
This is what results when you try to do a least-change map for incumbents and add four new districts and when you despise one particular congressman.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on May 31, 2011, 10:36:57 AM
looks like a good map, but the Metroplex map will never survive in court


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 10:38:50 AM
This is what results when you try to do a least-change map for incumbents and add four new districts and when you despise one particular congressman.

You referring to Ron Paul? Or Doggett?

They didn't have to do anything like this, though. I don't know why they just didn't split Montgomery County between Brady and Poe, and kept the 36th looking sane.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2011, 10:41:10 AM

The 15th might go Republican at a glance. The 28th experty snakes into Bexar County to grab what I think are the Bexar County blacks, which keeps the Hispanic VAP down.

I cheated and looked at the reports. The 15th is 80% VAP Hispanic (similar to 16th) and the 28th has a trivially small Black population, FWIW. Doggett could still win the primary in the 35th, I believe.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2011, 10:42:02 AM
This is what results when you try to do a least-change map for incumbents and add four new districts and when you despise one particular congressman.

You referring to Ron Paul? Or Doggett?

They didn't have to do anything like this, though. I don't know why they just didn't split Montgomery County between Brady and Poe, and kept the 36th looking sane.

Doggett. I didn't consider the impact on Paul. Maybe Paul can primary Farenthold if he doesn't like the new 14th? Farenthold doesn't seem tough to defeat.

The 36th is completely absurd, the only explanation that makes sense to me was that they wanted Brady to have all familiar territory.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2011, 10:43:37 AM
For the record: I do not care if Timothy or Bob condemn this map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 10:46:15 AM

The 15th might go Republican at a glance. The 28th experty snakes into Bexar County to grab what I think are the Bexar County blacks, which keeps the Hispanic VAP down.

I cheated and looked at the reports. The 15th is 80% VAP Hispanic (similar to 16th) and the 28th has a trivially small Black population, FWIW. Doggett could still win the primary in the 35th, I believe.

Oh, I did not even know they had those reports. That makes things so much easier, thanks.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2011, 10:47:03 AM
Wasn't there some kind of Barton vs. Smith fight over redistricting? From the looks of Barton's district, he lost. His district looks like Sessions's. Winnable, but with a large number of Democrats.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 10:56:06 AM
Wasn't there some kind of Barton vs. Smith fight over redistricting? From the looks of Barton's district, he lost. His district looks like Sessions's. Winnable, but with a large number of Democrats.

He won the battle but lost the war. Barton always wanted to avoid the Dem district in DFW. Naturally that means that he would have to grab some areas somewhere. Smith never had that issue as there are 2 Democrats in that area.

I have to imagine though that Barton is not happy with THAT many of those areas.


http://www.texastribune.org/texas-redistricting/redistricting/texas-state-lawmakers-unveil-congressional-map/


Edit: You are right about the 15th though. It's about 59% Obama. Might be enough to beat Hinojosa for a cycle, but that's about it. Moving Harlinglen in would drop that to about 57%.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 31, 2011, 11:24:06 AM
Gene Green specifically is not protected, but the preferred Hispanic candidate is. Any 52% McCain district would fail the VRA because it would not typically elect the preferred candidate of the Hispanic voters, which makes it an illegal dilution of Hispanic voting power--regardless of how heavily Hispanic the seat is. (Assuming, of course, that the preferred Hispanic candidate is a Democrat, which they usually are. It is possible, though, to draw 55% Hispanic seats in South Florida that would elect only Democrats. That would likely also be illegal.)

I was being sarcastic about Gene Green

Still, I don't really see how this interpretation could actually work.  The Problem is that the current 23rd and 27th would therefore not count as VRA-Districts anymore since they recently elected a candidate that the Hispanic-Majority didn't vote for.  Those are court-drawn districts, and I literally don't think you can make them more DEM while still adding more Hispanic-majority districts to the state.

Also, if its a straight "They Have to vote for Democrats" Rule, there's really no point in even submitting a map.   By Definition, the Texas map would have to be at least 24-12 Republican at minimum to even satisfy it, rendering the whole damn thing a pointless exercise in the first place.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on May 31, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
They don't have to always vote for the preferred Hispanic candidate. Just often enough that the Hispanic voting influence is not clearly being diluted. (And what they did with Farenthold reflects that; he got a safe seat, and they created a new Hispanic seat to replace the Farenthold seat.)

TX-23 is similar; it can elect Republicans sometimes, it just has to generally reflect Hispanic voter will. Which the old probably does, but the new one probably does not and may get thrown out. (It would be easy enough to up the Democratic percentage anyway--Corpus has a bunch of Hispanics who could be taken, for example, and the new TX-28 and TX-15 are packed more than they need to be.)

And, yes, the map does have to be 24-12. Or, at least, it has to be at least 24-10-2 or so.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 12:14:32 PM
They don't have to always vote for the preferred Hispanic candidate. Just often enough that the Hispanic voting influence is not clearly being diluted. (And what they did with Farenthold reflects that; he got a safe seat, and they created a new Hispanic seat to replace the Farenthold seat.)

TX-23 is similar; it can elect Republicans sometimes, it just has to generally reflect Hispanic voter will. Which the old probably does, but the new one probably does not and may get thrown out. (It would be easy enough to up the Democratic percentage anyway--Corpus has a bunch of Hispanics who could be taken, for example, and the new TX-28 and TX-15 are packed more than they need to be.)

And, yes, the map does have to be 24-12. Or, at least, it has to be at least 24-10-2 or so.
Even the current Court map has no real possibility of a 12th dem district without Chet Edwards. They're capped at 11.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on May 31, 2011, 12:27:43 PM

Also, if its a straight "They Have to vote for Democrats" Rule, there's really no point in even submitting a map
That, IMHO, is basically why the court (and for the court, read Anthony Kennedy, I suppose...) hasn't really spelled out or even fully thought through what its recent decisions tend to - that the VRA renders gerrymandering per se illegal in minority-impacted areas. Push him too much with a whole series of 56% VAP Hispanic, 50% Citizen VAP Hispanic, 54% Republican districts, though, and you run the very real risk of eventually getting just that verdict.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on May 31, 2011, 12:48:02 PM
As to the map, not too crazy in some parts, just plain lol in others. (Have a look at what they drew for Granger! :D )
How safe are some of those DFW seats going to remain over the decade, though? Barton's seat is actually plurality Hispanic. (So is Farenthold's new district of course, but that looks safe to me.)
They don't have to always vote for the preferred Hispanic candidate. Just often enough that the Hispanic voting influence is not clearly being diluted. (And what they did with Farenthold reflects that; he got a safe seat, and they created a new Hispanic seat to replace the Farenthold seat.)

TX-23 is similar; it can elect Republicans sometimes, it just has to generally reflect Hispanic voter will. Which the old probably does, but the new one probably does not and may get thrown out. (It would be easy enough to up the Democratic percentage anyway--Corpus has a bunch of Hispanics who could be taken, for example, and the new TX-28 and TX-15 are packed more than they need to be.)

And, yes, the map does have to be 24-12. Or, at least, it has to be at least 24-10-2 or so.
Even the current Court map has no real possibility of a 12th dem district without Chet Edwards. They're capped at 11.
This is a 24-10-2 map. Only, the two (23 and 25) are lean R seats, not pure tossups. This is assuming the DFW carveup is belived to be certain to hold - I can't judge that. I assume the 10th would be fool's gold in 2006/8 repeat conditions, just like its previous incarnation.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 12:54:51 PM
As to the map, not too crazy in some parts, just plain lol in others. (Have a look at what they drew for Granger! :D )
How safe are some of those DFW seats going to remain over the decade, though? Barton's seat is actually plurality Hispanic. (So is Farenthold's new district of course, but that looks safe to me.)
They don't have to always vote for the preferred Hispanic candidate. Just often enough that the Hispanic voting influence is not clearly being diluted. (And what they did with Farenthold reflects that; he got a safe seat, and they created a new Hispanic seat to replace the Farenthold seat.)

TX-23 is similar; it can elect Republicans sometimes, it just has to generally reflect Hispanic voter will. Which the old probably does, but the new one probably does not and may get thrown out. (It would be easy enough to up the Democratic percentage anyway--Corpus has a bunch of Hispanics who could be taken, for example, and the new TX-28 and TX-15 are packed more than they need to be.)

And, yes, the map does have to be 24-12. Or, at least, it has to be at least 24-10-2 or so.
Even the current Court map has no real possibility of a 12th dem district without Chet Edwards. They're capped at 11.
This is a 24-10-2 map. Only, the two (23 and 25) are lean R seats, not pure tossups. This is assuming the DFW carveup is belived to be certain to hold - I can't judge that. I assume the 10th would be fool's gold in 2006/8 repeat conditions, just like its previous incarnation.

I don't see that 25th as particularly competitive at R+8 or so. Travis County Democrats will likely keep nominating liberals that will get drenched in the rural areas and Ft. Worth suburbs. That seat is not a VRA seat anyway, so they could technically crack away with the Conaway district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on May 31, 2011, 01:05:05 PM
Yeah, I'm guilty of simplification: once it's gone Republican it stays that way. It's just not actually a guaranteed pickup. Though maybe they already recruited Doggett's challenger, and it's a strong one?

I mean, this is Doggett's electoral history with his current district, which after all is far from a purely Austin Dem vote sink itself:

2006       68-26
2008       66-30         
2010       53-45

Seven points ahead of Obama in 2008. The man's not entirely unelectable to rural whites versus some random R bloke unless they're in 2010 mood. Though it's worth pointing out that he gets a new set of rural whites this time, of course.

(Or of course he just chicken-moves to the Hispanic seat again. And then the whole discussion is moot.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on May 31, 2011, 01:38:39 PM
They don't have to always vote for the preferred Hispanic candidate. Just often enough that the Hispanic voting influence is not clearly being diluted. (And what they did with Farenthold reflects that; he got a safe seat, and they created a new Hispanic seat to replace the Farenthold seat.)

TX-23 is similar; it can elect Republicans sometimes, it just has to generally reflect Hispanic voter will. Which the old probably does, but the new one probably does not and may get thrown out. (It would be easy enough to up the Democratic percentage anyway--Corpus has a bunch of Hispanics who could be taken, for example, and the new TX-28 and TX-15 are packed more than they need to be.)

And, yes, the map does have to be 24-12. Or, at least, it has to be at least 24-10-2 or so.
Even the current Court map has no real possibility of a 12th dem district without Chet Edwards. They're capped at 11.

They were capped at 11 on the 2000 Census numbers, but there are four new districts. There's no way that DFW map gets past the courts, and that would be the new Hispanic/Democratic seat.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 31, 2011, 03:15:41 PM
Drawing these districts in DRA is really hard because so many precincts are split. This is what I have so far:

TX-10 - goes from 55% McCain to about 56% McCain.
TX-15 - stays the same, still around 60% Obama.
TX-16 - goes from 66% Obama to 67% Obama.
TX-23 - goes from 51% Obama to about 52% McCain.
TX-27 - this one goes from 53% Obama to about 59% McCain.
TX-28 - goes from 56% Obama to about 60-61% Obama.
TX-33 - the new Fort Worth/Arlington district is about 57% McCain.
TX-34 - the replacement Ortiz district is about 60% Obama.
TX-35 - a new Hispanic-majority San Antonio-Austin district is about 59-60% Obama.
TX-36 - a new Houston-Beaumont earmuff district is about 59-60% McCain.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on May 31, 2011, 03:24:37 PM

Also, if its a straight "They Have to vote for Democrats" Rule, there's really no point in even submitting a map
That, IMHO, is basically why the court (and for the court, read Anthony Kennedy, I suppose...) hasn't really spelled out or even fully thought through what its recent decisions tend to - that the VRA renders gerrymandering per se illegal in minority-impacted areas. Push him too much with a whole series of 56% VAP Hispanic, 50% Citizen VAP Hispanic, 54% Republican districts, though, and you run the very real risk of eventually getting just that verdict.


But That's the thing, what if you you draw such a district that isn't a gerrymander at all?  Say a Odessa/Midland West Texas district 10 years from now, which will probably be around 62% VAP Hispanic and at least 60% Republican despite being a COI (as much as west Texas can be anyway) Would that be illegal under the VRA even if its clearly not a gerrymander?

Also, what if I redrew the 29th as closer to 53% Obama, like where the current TX-27 is?  I still need to pull out the Black precincts for the 18th, and you can't get the district above roughly that amount without them.  Would the courts strike down that sort of kind-of gerrymandered (the district's not very clean as is anyway) even if its like 75% VAP Hispanic?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 31, 2011, 03:35:29 PM
TX-20 goes from 63% Obama to about 59% Obama.
TX-21 goes froom 58% McCain to about 56-57% McCain.
TX-25 goes from 59% Obama to 56% McCain. Ouch.

I'm done for now, this is making my mouse hand hurt.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 03:40:37 PM
Wasn't there some kind of Barton vs. Smith fight over redistricting? From the looks of Barton's district, he lost. His district looks like Sessions's. Winnable, but with a large number of Democrats.

Actually, interesting.

The Smith map (allegedly) was splitting the new districts 2-2, while the Barton map was always the 3-1 split. The proposed map closely mirrors the Barton map.

But now Doggett is calling this map the Smith map. So it looks like Smith just took the Barton map, put Barton in an ugly district, and submitted it away.



Of course, that ugly district is 58% McCain, so its not like he will lose it any time soon. The Barton district is deceptively conservative in a manner that its demographics might not suggest.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on May 31, 2011, 05:45:06 PM
remember the old 46th district in California? It went from being a 62% Bush 41 district in 1988 to a 54% Gore district by 2000. Hopefully the Texas Republicans are stupid enough for another CA 46 to happen.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2011, 07:59:53 PM
remember the old 46th district in California? It went from being a 62% Bush 41 district in 1988 to a 54% Gore district by 2000. Hopefully the Texas Republicans are stupid enough for another CA 46 to happen.

Kind of have to pick your side, champ. If they did what you suggested earlier and threw every Democrat from Ft Worth to West Dallas into a single 75% or so district, you kind of lessen the chance of that happening.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 31, 2011, 08:41:40 PM
More district numbers, all that's left is the Houston area.

TX-01 - stays the same at 69% McCain.
TX-03 - goes from 57% McCain to 62% McCain.
TX-04 - goes from 69% McCain to about 70-71% McCain.
TX-05 - goes from 63% McCain to about 62-63% McCain.
TX-06 - goes from 60% McCain to 58% McCain.
TX-11 - stays the same at 76% McCain.
TX-12 - goes from 63% McCain to 57% McCain.
TX-13 - goes from 77% McCain to 78% McCain.
TX-17 - goes from 67% McCain to 59% McCain.
TX-19 - stays the same at 72% McCain.
TX-24 - goes from 55% McCain to 59% McCain.
TX-26 - goes from 58% McCain to about 60% McCain.
TX-30 - stays the same at 82% Obama.
TX-31 - goes from 58% McCain to 57% McCain.
TX-32 - goes from 53% McCain to about 55-56% McCain.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 31, 2011, 09:06:35 PM
The one I'm curious about is TX-22 - that's the one where I think there might be issues long-term for the GOP.  The other districts look pretty well-drawn with regards to where growth and population movement should occur.

Of course, not creating a Hispanic district in Dallas will bring lawsuits galore.  The rest of the gerrymander will be ok VRA-wise, I suspect.

No way Doggett runs in that TX-25; he'll move to the Hispanic district.  Where Ciro will undoubtedly run in - that's his old territory in Bexar.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 31, 2011, 09:51:57 PM
Okay, last batch.

TX-02 goes from 60% McCain to 64-65% McCain.
TX-07 goes from 58% McCain to 60% McCain.
TX-08 stays the same at 74% McCain.
TX-09 goes from 77% Obama to 74-75% Obama.
TX-14 goes from 66% McCain to 65% McCain.
TX-18 goes from 77% Obama to 79-80% Obama.
TX-22 goes from 58% McCain to 64% McCain.
TX-29 goes from 62% Obama to 66-67% Obama.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 31, 2011, 09:57:54 PM
Here's the entire state:


TX-01 - 69% McCain
TX-02 - 64-65% McCain
TX-03 - 62% McCain
TX-04 - 70-71% McCain
TX-05 - 62-63% McCain
TX-06 - 58% McCain
TX-07 - 60% McCain
TX-08 - 74% McCain
TX-09 - 74-75% Obama
TX-10 - 56% McCain
TX-11 - 76% McCain
TX-12 - 57% McCain
TX-13 - 78% McCain
TX-14 - 65% McCain
TX-15 - 60% Obama
TX-16 - 67% Obama
TX-17 - 59% McCain
TX-18 - 79-80% Obama
TX-19 - 72% McCain
TX-20 - 59% Obama
TX-21 - 56-57% McCain
TX-22 - 64% McCain
TX-23 - 52% McCain
TX-24 - 59% McCain
TX-25 - 56% McCain
TX-26 - 60% McCain
TX-27 - 59% McCain
TX-28 - 60-61% Obama
TX-29 - 66-67% Obama
TX-30 - 82% Obama
TX-31 - 57% McCain
TX-32 - 55-56% McCain
TX-33 - 57% McCain
TX-34 - 60% Obama
TX-35 - 59-60% Obama
TX-36 - 59-60% McCain

36 districts with only one competitive in a general election (TX-23). Pretty impressive work.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Mr.Phips on May 31, 2011, 10:01:04 PM
I really doubt this map will pass muster with the DOJ.  It only creates a net of one new Hispanic majority district, and splits up Hispanic communities in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston that could be used to create at least two more Hispanic majority districts. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 31, 2011, 10:02:25 PM
Okay, last batch.

TX-02 goes from 60% McCain to 64-65% McCain.
TX-07 goes from 58% McCain to 60% McCain.
TX-08 stays the same at 74% McCain.
TX-09 goes from 77% Obama to 74-75% Obama.
TX-14 goes from 66% McCain to 65% McCain.
TX-18 goes from 77% Obama to 79-80% Obama.
TX-22 goes from 58% McCain to 64% McCain.
TX-29 goes from 62% Obama to 66-67% Obama.

Maybe I misread that TX-22.  :P  Ugh.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on May 31, 2011, 10:05:55 PM
I really doubt this map will pass muster with the DOJ.  It only creates a net of one new Hispanic majority district, and splits up Hispanic communities in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston that could be used to create at least two more Hispanic majority districts. 

The DFW Hispanic district is the issue.  I've looked at the numbers, and I haven't found a way to create a second Hispanic district in Houston other than the touch-point thing krazen mentioned way back.  The Hispanics are simply too spread out, and it would come at the expense of Al Green anyway.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on May 31, 2011, 11:35:27 PM
That 36th district is the most vile abomination I have seen so far.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 01, 2011, 01:30:36 AM
I really doubt this map will pass muster with the DOJ.  It only creates a net of one new Hispanic majority district, and splits up Hispanic communities in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston that could be used to create at least two more Hispanic majority districts. 

The DFW Hispanic district is the issue.  I've looked at the numbers, and I haven't found a way to create a second Hispanic district in Houston other than the touch-point thing krazen mentioned way back.  The Hispanics are simply too spread out, and it would come at the expense of Al Green anyway.
You obviously didn't see the Maldef map that connected the NE Houston and NW Houston portions of TX-18 via a one block strip through North Houston.  This lets TX-29 connect east and SE Houston with the southern part of North Houston via downtown, while TX-18 also connects to the 3rd Ward.  The new Hispanic district then takes in the northern part of North Houston and wraps over the top of both parts northern arms of TX-18 so it can get to Channelview, Spring Branch and Gulfton.

BTW, the legislature is back in special session because they didn't finish with budget, and Governor Perry has added redistricting to the call.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 01, 2011, 01:33:55 AM
That 36th district is the most vile abomination I have seen so far.
Careful trashing my congressional district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on June 01, 2011, 10:33:21 AM
Okay, last batch.

TX-02 goes from 60% McCain to 64-65% McCain.
TX-07 goes from 58% McCain to 60% McCain.
TX-08 stays the same at 74% McCain.
TX-09 goes from 77% Obama to 74-75% Obama.
TX-14 goes from 66% McCain to 65% McCain.
TX-18 goes from 77% Obama to 79-80% Obama.
TX-22 goes from 58% McCain to 64% McCain.
TX-29 goes from 62% Obama to 66-67% Obama.

Maybe I misread that TX-22.  :P  Ugh.

It's 13% Asian, so perhaps there's a big Vietnamese population in Fort Bend or they're not registered to vote (or a combination of both).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on June 01, 2011, 01:39:26 PM
Okay, last batch.

TX-02 goes from 60% McCain to 64-65% McCain.
TX-07 goes from 58% McCain to 60% McCain.
TX-08 stays the same at 74% McCain.
TX-09 goes from 77% Obama to 74-75% Obama.
TX-14 goes from 66% McCain to 65% McCain.
TX-18 goes from 77% Obama to 79-80% Obama.
TX-22 goes from 58% McCain to 64% McCain.
TX-29 goes from 62% Obama to 66-67% Obama.

Maybe I misread that TX-22.  :P  Ugh.

It's 13% Asian, so perhaps there's a big Vietnamese population in Fort Bend or they're not registered to vote (or a combination of both).

Some cursory checking suggests the both, as taking in 200,000 peoples worth of the most Asian areas on the county (33%) give a 50:49 Obama vote total, and that's with less than 25% Whites.   Turnout in the area is actually slightly higher than the state average too (though that's mostly because the Heavily Hispanic parts of Texas weight its totals down).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 01, 2011, 02:32:06 PM

Also, if its a straight "They Have to vote for Democrats" Rule, there's really no point in even submitting a map
That, IMHO, is basically why the court (and for the court, read Anthony Kennedy, I suppose...) hasn't really spelled out or even fully thought through what its recent decisions tend to - that the VRA renders gerrymandering per se illegal in minority-impacted areas. Push him too much with a whole series of 56% VAP Hispanic, 50% Citizen VAP Hispanic, 54% Republican districts, though, and you run the very real risk of eventually getting just that verdict.


But That's the thing, what if you you draw such a district that isn't a gerrymander at all? 
It would presumably still be legit even in that scenario - just as no one believes the South Bronx must be diluted down to 60% nonwhite. I think that TX-23 they drew should pass muster, for instance. Which is probably why they didn't shore up Canseco more. Wouldn't have been very hard to do.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 01, 2011, 02:41:34 PM
I really doubt this map will pass muster with the DOJ.  It only creates a net of one new Hispanic majority district, and splits up Hispanic communities in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston that could be used to create at least two more Hispanic majority districts. 

The DFW Hispanic district is the issue.  I've looked at the numbers, and I haven't found a way to create a second Hispanic district in Houston other than the touch-point thing krazen mentioned way back.  The Hispanics are simply too spread out, and it would come at the expense of Al Green anyway.

The Veasey guy in the state legislature didn't bother with a new Hispanic district in Harris presumably for that reason. Instead, he put a bunch of whites in the Bernice Johnson district and chopped Arlington into 3 pieces to draw himself a district, and then rounded up all the Hispanics in a district that looks like a scorpion.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on June 01, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
I really doubt this map will pass muster with the DOJ.  It only creates a net of one new Hispanic majority district, and splits up Hispanic communities in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston that could be used to create at least two more Hispanic majority districts. 

The DFW Hispanic district is the issue.  I've looked at the numbers, and I haven't found a way to create a second Hispanic district in Houston other than the touch-point thing krazen mentioned way back.  The Hispanics are simply too spread out, and it would come at the expense of Al Green anyway.
You obviously didn't see the Maldef map that connected the NE Houston and NW Houston portions of TX-18 via a one block strip through North Houston.  This lets TX-29 connect east and SE Houston with the southern part of North Houston via downtown, while TX-18 also connects to the 3rd Ward.  The new Hispanic district then takes in the northern part of North Houston and wraps over the top of both parts northern arms of TX-18 so it can get to Channelview, Spring Branch and Gulfton.

BTW, the legislature is back in special session because they didn't finish with budget, and Governor Perry has added redistricting to the call.

It's actually the Hardy Toll Road - for at least a mile.  When I saw that, I decided not to take the map seriously because there's no way that withstands court scrutiny.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on June 02, 2011, 04:14:58 PM
Solomons is backing away from the map a bit. We all know we're going to see an aggressive Republican map but perhaps the ridiculousness of this TX-36 or the lack of a Hispanic district in DFW are too big to ignore.

Quote
“It’s a proposal, people,” said an exasperated state Rep. Burt Solomons, R-Carrollton, co-drawer of the map. “I can assure you there will be some changes. … It’s a work in progress.”

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-redistricting/redistricting/texas-congressional-map-will-change-leader-says/


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 02, 2011, 06:55:54 PM
James White is a tea party black Republican from Tyler County. I'm guessing they accommodate him; the new district already overlaps him well. In a very interesting observation, all 4 new Texas districts are reasonably likely to go to minorities.

http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/member-page/?district=12


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 02, 2011, 10:58:11 PM
http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PLANC130

New plan is out. They fixed the 36th. Put Ted Poe into a somewhat uncomfortable district. Dallas is unchanged.

Someone needs to bang it into their heads that Kevin Brady needs to be the guy to snag downtown Houston.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on June 02, 2011, 11:50:35 PM
http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PLANC130

New plan is out. They fixed the 36th. Put Ted Poe into a somewhat uncomfortable district. Dallas is unchanged.

Someone needs to bang it into their heads that Kevin Brady needs to be the guy to snag downtown Houston.

At a quick glance, Poe's CD is probably still 60% McCain - there's still far too much north Harris county. More importantly for the GOP, McCaul gets more north Houston, so his % should be helped.

The CD that will lose GOP % with the change should be Ron Paul's CD upon my quick glance.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: cinyc on June 03, 2011, 01:23:37 AM
They don't have to always vote for the preferred Hispanic candidate. Just often enough that the Hispanic voting influence is not clearly being diluted. (And what they did with Farenthold reflects that; he got a safe seat, and they created a new Hispanic seat to replace the Farenthold seat.)

TX-23 is similar; it can elect Republicans sometimes, it just has to generally reflect Hispanic voter will. Which the old probably does, but the new one probably does not and may get thrown out. (It would be easy enough to up the Democratic percentage anyway--Corpus has a bunch of Hispanics who could be taken, for example, and the new TX-28 and TX-15 are packed more than they need to be.)

And, yes, the map does have to be 24-12. Or, at least, it has to be at least 24-10-2 or so.

Riddle me this, then - if 40% of Hispanics generally prefer to elect Republicans, why should Hispanic-preferring Republicans always be forced into districts in which their preferred Republican candidate could never win?  Why should you have to pack every Hispanic-majority district with the requisite number Hispanics and Democratic voters so that they almost always elect Democrats?  In other words, if there should be, say 18 minority-majority CDs drawn for Hispanics in Texas, why shouldn't a Republican be electable in 8-10 of them, instead of creating racial Gerrymandered districts that cater to the preferred candidates of a bare majority of the "special" race?  Why should Hispanic Republicans get disenfranchised due to their race?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on June 03, 2011, 01:51:15 AM
Fun fact: Every single Hispanic Republican lives in a Democratic district. Every single one. This is due to the fact that all Hispanics live in Hispanic-majority Democratic districts. Every single Hispanic in the country. Very interesting, huh?

If Texas had 18 Hispanic districts yet still voted the same way it does now, there WOULD be Republicans elected in some of those Hispanic seats. You can already draw a Hispanic majority seat where a Republican would win. When I was drawing LDs in Washington I figured out that it was easy to draw Hispanic-majority LDs won by Rossi, but impossible to draw any won by Murray. I doubt Hispanics make up anywhere near the majority of voters in those Rossi LDs though. The issue is SPECIFICALLY diluting the Hispanic vote into districts backed by white suburbanites. Hispanics in districts like Gene Green's obviously aren't voting 40% for Republicans either.

But it's moot because it's pretty obvious that even the Texas Republicans get this.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 03, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
Have a look at precinct results in Texas. You don't find many Hispanic-dominated areas voting anywhere near 40% Republican. (There are a few, yes. Mostly the nicer parts of the Lower Valley, which are also the parts that have an Anglo minority presence. Though there are pockets elsewhere.) Two things are happening here: Those Hispanics (or sometimes "Hispanics") not living in Hispanic areas but rather among the White suburbanites tend, in Texas, to vote Republican (if at a lesser rate than their Anglo neighbors). They are also more likely to vote at all. These folks don't meet the Gingles test, the VRA wasn't meant for them. The Barrios do.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Deldem on June 03, 2011, 01:53:30 PM
http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PLANC130

New plan is out. They fixed the 36th. Put Ted Poe into a somewhat uncomfortable district. Dallas is unchanged.

Someone needs to bang it into their heads that Kevin Brady needs to be the guy to snag downtown Houston.

At a quick glance, Poe's CD is probably still 60% McCain - there's still far too much north Harris county. More importantly for the GOP, McCaul gets more north Houston, so his % should be helped.

The CD that will lose GOP % with the change should be Ron Paul's CD upon my quick glance.
This seems to be correct... Paul picks up Beaumont and Port Arthur, it seems. He still looks like he has a pretty safe seat overall, though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on June 03, 2011, 07:51:48 PM
They don't have to always vote for the preferred Hispanic candidate. Just often enough that the Hispanic voting influence is not clearly being diluted. (And what they did with Farenthold reflects that; he got a safe seat, and they created a new Hispanic seat to replace the Farenthold seat.)

TX-23 is similar; it can elect Republicans sometimes, it just has to generally reflect Hispanic voter will. Which the old probably does, but the new one probably does not and may get thrown out. (It would be easy enough to up the Democratic percentage anyway--Corpus has a bunch of Hispanics who could be taken, for example, and the new TX-28 and TX-15 are packed more than they need to be.)

And, yes, the map does have to be 24-12. Or, at least, it has to be at least 24-10-2 or so.

Riddle me this, then - if 40% of Hispanics generally prefer to elect Republicans, why should Hispanic-preferring Republicans always be forced into districts in which their preferred Republican candidate could never win?  Why should you have to pack every Hispanic-majority district with the requisite number Hispanics and Democratic voters so that they almost always elect Democrats?  In other words, if there should be, say 18 minority-majority CDs drawn for Hispanics in Texas, why shouldn't a Republican be electable in 8-10 of them, instead of creating racial Gerrymandered districts that cater to the preferred candidates of a bare majority of the "special" race?  Why should Hispanic Republicans get disenfranchised due to their race?


There is a simple enough answer to this question: 50% of the voting age citizen population could be the threshold. If the Republican, White or Hispanic, wins a higher percentage of the White vote than the Democrat wins of the Hispanic vote, so be it.

People here seem to be arguing the absurdity that if the Hispanics are 51-49 Democrat, while Whites are 75% Republican,  the VRA requires a district that is 98% Hispanic.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on June 03, 2011, 08:33:53 PM
Have a look at precinct results in Texas. You don't find many Hispanic-dominated areas voting anywhere near 40% Republican. (There are a few, yes. Mostly the nicer parts of the Lower Valley, which are also the parts that have an Anglo minority presence. Though there are pockets elsewhere.) Two things are happening here: Those Hispanics (or sometimes "Hispanics") not living in Hispanic areas but rather among the White suburbanites tend, in Texas, to vote Republican (if at a lesser rate than their Anglo neighbors). They are also more likely to vote at all. These folks don't meet the Gingles test, the VRA wasn't meant for them. The Barrios do.

Well, the problem then is that those areas are the ones seeing large increases in Hispanic growth rather than the Barrios.  Aside from Central Houston, South San Antonio, El Paso and South Texas, there's really no large enough concentration of Hispanic to create "Barrio" districts, and those areas alone can't support the current 7, let alone 9.  It's the reason why we have the bacon-mandered South Texas--Heavily Hispanic parts of the lower valley are matched with Hispanic-presence (like 30-40% usually) areas further north.

If the VRA was only intended to prevent vote-dilution of block-minority votes, then you could legitimately argue that aside from maybe a Metro-plex one (which is ugly to draw BTW, and included many such 40% Hispanic areas) Texas shouldn't be forced to create any more VRA districts.  The Vast majority of Hispanic growth since the last census has been areas jumping from 15% Hispanic to 25-30% Hispanic as they move towards the Suburbs rather than South San Antonio gaining 200,000 or so people.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on June 03, 2011, 08:37:01 PM
http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PLANC130

New plan is out. They fixed the 36th. Put Ted Poe into a somewhat uncomfortable district. Dallas is unchanged.

Someone needs to bang it into their heads that Kevin Brady needs to be the guy to snag downtown Houston.

I think they're nervous about creating a purely East Texas District, which has a history of voting for Conservative Democrats.  But logically they should bring the 8th in--Its not like Montgomery County is lacking in Republican votes.  Brady can take the entire county, downtown Houston, and still be at like 67% McCain, leaving Poe to pick up the less Democratic areas East of Houston in the 36th in that map and shore him up.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on June 03, 2011, 09:02:37 PM
Also, why on earth does the 11th take in Hood and Palo Pinto County?  It's not like the 75% McCain district needs the extra support, and the rest of the DFW districts probably could use the boost.

For that matter, why not bring the 11th into West Austin instead of the 25th, which can be kicked up towards Dallas to lend some extra support.  Does Mike Conaway really need all the extra Republican votes in his district?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 04, 2011, 02:31:33 AM
Fun fact: Every single Hispanic Republican lives in a Democratic district. Every single one. This is due to the fact that all Hispanics live in Hispanic-majority Democratic districts. Every single Hispanic in the country. Very interesting, huh?
TX-17 is a Democratic district?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 04, 2011, 04:30:35 AM
Have a look at precinct results in Texas. You don't find many Hispanic-dominated areas voting anywhere near 40% Republican. (There are a few, yes. Mostly the nicer parts of the Lower Valley, which are also the parts that have an Anglo minority presence. Though there are pockets elsewhere.) Two things are happening here: Those Hispanics (or sometimes "Hispanics") not living in Hispanic areas but rather among the White suburbanites tend, in Texas, to vote Republican (if at a lesser rate than their Anglo neighbors). They are also more likely to vote at all. These folks don't meet the Gingles test, the VRA wasn't meant for them. The Barrios do.

Well, the problem then is that those areas are the ones seeing large increases in Hispanic growth rather than the Barrios. 
True enough, of course. True enough. (What else to expect when the concept of "Hispanic" is specifically defined so as to include anybody with any Hispanic ancestry whatsoever?)
Quote
  It's the reason why we have the bacon-mandered South Texas--Heavily Hispanic parts of the lower valley are matched with Hispanic-presence (like 30-40% usually) areas further north.
Although those rural Hispanics don't vote 40% Republican, actually. (Those northeast of Corpus seem to to, though.)

Quote
If the VRA was only intended to prevent vote-dilution of block-minority votes, then you could legitimately argue that aside from maybe a Metro-plex one (which is ugly to draw BTW, and included many such 40% Hispanic areas) Texas shouldn't be forced to create any more VRA districts. 
Yes. That seems to be exactly what everybody but uber-partisan Republicans (as in, more so than the Republican state house leadership) seems to be arguing. -_-

Fun fact: Every single Hispanic Republican lives in a Democratic district. Every single one. This is due to the fact that all Hispanics live in Hispanic-majority Democratic districts. Every single Hispanic in the country. Very interesting, huh?
TX-17 is a Democratic district?

I'm not entirely sure what Red was even trying to say in the bit you quoted... Flores is, of course, whiter than me of countenance*, an army-bases-bred Southern Baptist, and doesn't speak a word of Spanish. But is apparently of "part Spanish" ancestry - around election time, I had looked for something to clear up the matter of this white dude with a Spanish surname, couldn't find anything on him personally, but found that the name also exists in Italy (where it's considered a Napolitan name), and left him tentatively at "not Hispanic". But apparently he is, sort of.

*Mind you, so are all the Cuban-American politicos including Bob Menendez - But Cuba's demographics are very different from Mexico's or New Mexico's. And G.K. Butterfield.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 06, 2011, 04:30:38 AM

Fun fact: Every single Hispanic Republican lives in a Democratic district. Every single one. This is due to the fact that all Hispanics live in Hispanic-majority Democratic districts. Every single Hispanic in the country. Very interesting, huh?
TX-17 is a Democratic district?

I'm not entirely sure what Red was even trying to say in the bit you quoted... Flores is, of course, whiter than me of countenance*, an army-bases-bred Southern Baptist, and doesn't speak a word of Spanish. But is apparently of "part Spanish" ancestry - around election time, I had looked for something to clear up the matter of this white dude with a Spanish surname, couldn't find anything on him personally, but found that the name also exists in Italy (where it's considered a Napolitan name), and left him tentatively at "not Hispanic". But apparently he is, sort of.

*Mind you, so are all the Cuban-American politicos including Bob Menendez - But Cuba's demographics are very different from Mexico's or New Mexico's. And G.K. Butterfield.
He said that the Flores family emigrated to Nacogdoches in 1725.  There are also Raul Labrador and Jaime Herrera.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on June 06, 2011, 10:44:39 AM
Fun fact: Every single Hispanic Republican lives in a Democratic district. Every single one. This is due to the fact that all Hispanics live in Hispanic-majority Democratic districts. Every single Hispanic in the country. Very interesting, huh?
TX-17 is a Democratic district?


Well Waco has been a traditionally democratic city having been held by a democrat in congress from reconstruction to 2010. Of course, with Edwards and Dunnam both being unseated, its safe to say its finally flipped at the local level.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 06, 2011, 10:50:07 AM

Fun fact: Every single Hispanic Republican lives in a Democratic district. Every single one. This is due to the fact that all Hispanics live in Hispanic-majority Democratic districts. Every single Hispanic in the country. Very interesting, huh?
TX-17 is a Democratic district?

I'm not entirely sure what Red was even trying to say in the bit you quoted... Flores is, of course, whiter than me of countenance*, an army-bases-bred Southern Baptist, and doesn't speak a word of Spanish. But is apparently of "part Spanish" ancestry - around election time, I had looked for something to clear up the matter of this white dude with a Spanish surname, couldn't find anything on him personally, but found that the name also exists in Italy (where it's considered a Napolitan name), and left him tentatively at "not Hispanic". But apparently he is, sort of.

*Mind you, so are all the Cuban-American politicos including Bob Menendez - But Cuba's demographics are very different from Mexico's or New Mexico's. And G.K. Butterfield.
He said that the Flores family emigrated to Nacogdoches in 1725.
That's... unlikely. Unless they came from an abandoned Caddo town. It was purely a mission at the time, and remained so for the next two generations.
Quote
 There are also Raul Labrador and Jaime Herrera.
I know, I know. I was just speaking because I had really been wondering about Flores' background.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 06, 2011, 07:25:28 PM

He said that the Flores family emigrated to Nacogdoches in 1725.
That's... unlikely. Unless they came from an abandoned Caddo town. It was purely a mission at the time, and remained so for the next two generations.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9xhKe6Zc__EC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=flores+nacogdoches+1725&source=bl&ots=F0vJC0MFoz&sig=xg9tFcTyMVknkTSPtORUwIpfU2I&hl=en&ei=mWbtTYCOC6O_0AHC5-SrAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=flores%20nacogdoches%201725&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=9xhKe6Zc__EC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=flores+nacogdoches+1725&source=bl&ots=F0vJC0MFoz&sig=xg9tFcTyMVknkTSPtORUwIpfU2I&hl=en&ei=mWbtTYCOC6O_0AHC5-SrAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=flores%20nacogdoches%201725&f=false)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 06, 2011, 09:02:08 PM
Just passed the Senate. Probably no more amendments at this point from the House either.

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-redistricting/redistricting/texas-senate-approves-gop-drawn-congressional-map/?utm_source=texastribune.org&utm_medium=alerts&utm_campaign=News%20Alert:%20Subscriptions

26-10, lock and load.




Edit: Amusing argument.

 "This plan belongs in the 20th century, not the 21st century ," said Sen. Eddie Lucio Jr., D-Brownsville.



I guess he means this is like the Dem drawn plans.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on June 06, 2011, 09:05:44 PM
At least until the inevitable court challenge.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on June 06, 2011, 09:07:07 PM
At least until the inevitable court challenge.

...assuming the DOJ even approves it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 06, 2011, 10:04:43 PM
DOJ won't have anything to say about it.  It will go to the D.C.Court of Appeals


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 14, 2011, 05:00:20 PM
3 things.

1. Marc Veasey can't count.

2. Poe and Brady and their allies are fighting over 300 acres for the new Exxon Mobil Headquarters.

3. Apparently this is being kicked back to the Senate.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 14, 2011, 08:14:32 PM
2. Poe and Brady and their allies are fighting over 300 acres for the new Exxon Mobil Headquarters.
This was only announced last week.  So if the bill had been passed during the regular session, they would have been surprised.  I wonder who gets left with (Greens)point?

HQ of Exxon Mobil is in Irving (but that is more for their business operations).  Exploration and production are handled from Houston which is being consolidated.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 14, 2011, 09:15:39 PM
3. Apparently this is being kicked back to the Senate.

A lot of twiddles here and there.  In some cases, a more rural county got swapped, and then they had to adjust some squiggly lines elsewhere (eg Barton got Navarro, and some lines in Tarrant and Johnson got adjusted).  Some lines were adjusted to avoid splitting cites.

Some other look to make boundaries more continuous, lines through Bastrop and Hays flow naturally into Travis.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 14, 2011, 09:20:47 PM
3. Apparently this is being kicked back to the Senate.

A lot of twiddles here and there.  In some cases, a more rural county got swapped, and then they had to adjust some squiggly lines elsewhere (eg Barton got Navarro, and some lines in Tarrant and Johnson got adjusted).  Some lines were adjusted to avoid splitting cites.

Some other look to make boundaries more continuous, lines through Bastrop and Hays flow naturally into Travis.
The Senate will probably want a conference so that they can finish cleaning up any leftovers, but the House version looks like it will be what is approved.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on July 18, 2011, 02:24:31 AM
Does anyone know if the Black-Pluralty Districts in Houston and Dallas are VRA protected?  I'm trying to draw a Democratic gerrymander, and if they're not that really simplifies things.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on July 19, 2011, 05:40:39 PM
Texas AG Greg Abbott has asked for a 3-judge panel to approved the Texas redistricting maps.  As a matter of courtesy, Texas has sent a copy of the material to the USDOJ. (http://www.quorumreport.com/downloadit.cfm?DocID=9055)

Incidentally, the federal court cases are being consolidated in San Antonio (Texas Western District).  The lead case, Shannon Perez v Texas, argues that prison population should not be considered for redistricting purposes; and secondly with modern computer technology there is no reason to allow 10% deviation.

The other plaintiffs include MALDEF, LULAC, MALC.  Rep. Henry Cuellar is an plaintiff-intervenor.  The Texas Democratic Party is defendant-intervenor.

Another case that argues that the non-legal immigrants should not be counted for redistricting purposes was not consolidated, but was moved to San Antonio.

Trial is September 6.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on July 23, 2011, 01:52:35 PM
Does anyone know if the Black-Pluralty Districts in Houston and Dallas are VRA protected?  I'm trying to draw a Democratic gerrymander, and if they're not that really simplifies things.

Because so many Hispanics are illegals, a 45% black district in VAP probably has a majority black CVAP. Whether 38/40% in CD-9 and CD-18 get there is anyone's guess.

As it stands, the 71.7% Hispanic CD-29 doesn't actually have 50% SSVR; out of 341k Hispanics, there are only 126k SS registered voters. The DFW Hispanic district in Veasey's plan doesn't even cross 40% SSVR.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Dgov on July 23, 2011, 02:05:48 PM
Does anyone know if the Black-Pluralty Districts in Houston and Dallas are VRA protected?  I'm trying to draw a Democratic gerrymander, and if they're not that really simplifies things.

Because so many Hispanics are illegals, a 45% black district in VAP probably has a majority black CVAP. Whether 38/40% in CD-9 and CD-18 get there is anyone's guess.

As it stands, the 71.7% Hispanic CD-29 doesn't actually have 50% SSVR; out of 341k Hispanics, there are only 126k SS registered voters. The DFW Hispanic district in Veasey's plan doesn't even cross 40% SSVR.

Okay, good.  I drew a 35% Black-plurality, 65% Obama District in Dallas (take the black parts and connect them to Ennis and Kaufman counties) and i wanted to know if that would pass VRA muster (its 40% Hispanic VAP and 25% White VAP).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on July 23, 2011, 02:45:56 PM

Okay, good.  I drew a 35% Black-plurality, 65% Obama District in Dallas (take the black parts and connect them to Ennis and Kaufman counties) and i wanted to know if that would pass VRA muster (its 40% Hispanic VAP and 25% White VAP).

Let me correct myself. TX-29 didn't cross 50% SSVR in 2008 but it did in 2010. They probably used the 2010 numbers.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on August 02, 2011, 01:42:03 PM
I was reading about this one race back in 2004 in the magazine the other day. As you know, they redrew the lines in 2003 by the legislature. They drew a district that took in heavily GOP Johnson County, a bedroom community of Fort Worth; and stretched down to the military republican stronghold of College Station. It was drawn so that one of the legislators, Arlene Wohlgemuth, could run there. She was a Marilyn Musgrave type republican woman (the vile, fire-breathing type). She ran in the district in 2004 but ran 22 points behind George W. Bush (who lived in that district) and lost by 3 points. I had always thought that anything past a +6 PVI meant anybody could win the district no matter how partisan they were. Its always good to hear that people will sometimes vote for the person and not the party.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Deldem on August 02, 2011, 09:29:37 PM
I was reading about this one race back in 2004 in the magazine the other day. As you know, they redrew the lines in 2003 by the legislature. They drew a district that took in heavily GOP Johnson County, a bedroom community of Fort Worth; and stretched down to the military republican stronghold of College Station. It was drawn so that one of the legislators, Arlene Wohlgemuth, could run there. She was a Marilyn Musgrave type republican woman (the vile, fire-breathing type). She ran in the district in 2004 but ran 22 points behind George W. Bush (who lived in that district) and lost by 3 points. I had always thought that anything past a +6 PVI meant anybody could win the district no matter how partisan they were. Its always good to hear that people will sometimes vote for the person and not the party.
Well that was Chet Edwards, who was probably the Texas Democrat with the highest ceiling pre-2010. Sadly, that year was too strong, and he's probably done, unless he improbably decides to run for Senate and then wins.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on August 15, 2011, 04:55:20 PM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Emails-show-political-machinations-of-1927494.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Emails-show-political-machinations-of-1927494.php)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Landslide Lyndon on August 15, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Emails-show-political-machinations-of-1927494.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Emails-show-political-machinations-of-1927494.php)

For all their swagger and ruthlessness, Texas Republicans acted like the Keystone cops this time.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Lief 🗽 on August 22, 2011, 03:23:05 PM
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/-perrymander-redistricting-map-that-rick-perry-signed-has-texas-hispanics-up-in-arms-20110819

Quote
Several Republicans are expressing increasing nervousness that Texas could be the scene of the biggest redistricting backfire of the cycle, and that Barton, Texas Gov. Perry, and others could be to blame for playing roulette with both a hyperaggressive map and an untested legal strategy. The GOP's worst nightmare? A federal court in San Antonio could ignore the map that Democrats deride as the “Perrymander” and draw a new plan de novo, replacing Republicans’ plans for a congressional delegation divided 26-10 in their favor with a map that potentially could cost the GOP a disastrous three, four, or even five seats. More optimistic Republicans say that minor changes are more likely.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on September 02, 2011, 11:44:26 AM
The map that the Texas Republican drew sucks.  Its ugly, too partisan and rips a lot of places to shreds.  

I drew a map, and of course I drew it to favor Republicans because I am one, but it doesn't rip communities to shreds as the Legislature's map did.  

()
()
()
()
()
()

I split almost all the heavily populated counties into the fewest number of districts possible

20 districts are 50%+ minorities of all types
16 districts are 50%+ non-Hispanic white
4 districts 27% black or higher (2, 9, 10, 5)
7 districts majority Hispanic (20, 33, 18, 31, 21, 19, 10)
22 districts 20-50% Hispanic

7 McCain 70-77% (36, 24, 35, 34, 23, 25, 17)
8 McCain 60-70% (27, 6, 32, 12, 8, 19, 7, 13)
8 McCain 55-60% (29, 14, 4, 16, 22, 11, 30, 28)
4 McCain 50-55% (15 @ 53.9%, 1 & 3 @ 53.7%, 21 @ 52.6%)

9 Obama districts
2, 9, 10, 26, 20, 31, 18, 33, 5  84.6%-68.7%





Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Miles on September 19, 2011, 05:42:00 PM
Fresh from Lloyd Doggett's Facebook page:

The DOJ rejected the Texas maps. (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Justice-Department-rejects-Texas-redistricting-2178173.php)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on September 19, 2011, 05:44:49 PM
Fresh from Lloyd Doggett's Facebook page:

The DOJ rejected the Texas maps. (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Justice-Department-rejects-Texas-redistricting-2178173.php)

Litigation time - perhaps all the way to SCOTUS.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on September 19, 2011, 05:58:22 PM
Who knows what the statutes are in Texas?

Does the legislature have the right to a redraw or is it in the courts now?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on September 19, 2011, 10:34:57 PM
Who knows what the statutes are in Texas?

Does the legislature have the right to a redraw or is it in the courts now?

The legislature has a right to redraw if it chooses to.

In any case, the Justice Department isn't final here. The 3 judge panel is.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 20, 2011, 03:42:06 AM
Fresh from Lloyd Doggett's Facebook page:

The DOJ rejected the Texas maps. (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Justice-Department-rejects-Texas-redistricting-2178173.php)

Litigation time - perhaps all the way to SCOTUS.

 USDOJ brief  (http://www.quorumreport.com/downloadit.cfm?DocID=9115)

Texas bypassed the DOJ and went directly to the DC District Court for preclearance.  When they did this, they "informally" made a submission to the USDOJ as a matter of courtesy.

The USDOJ brief is with DC District Court and basically says that if it were up to them they would have precleared the senate plan and the SBOE plan.  This should make it real hard for the court not to preclear, since it would imply that the USDOJ doesn't understand the law, or that they are imposing the wrong standards.

The USDOJ also rejected the idea that Section 5 is unconstitutional.

The USDOJ didn't really reject the congressional and house plans, but said that they had insufficient information to evaluate them, but would be providing stipulations by today that would "narrow" the issues.

This is the reason that Texas didn't go through the USDOJ, because they like to negotiate settlements.  It is like then EEOC.  The EEOC might not be able to make their case, but it could be a long drug out affair, so why not just pay a fine, don't admit culpability, and agree to some changes.  You might be right, but it is too costly to win.

The regular trial has been heard in San Antonio the past couple of weeks.   They might or might not wait until the DC court has ruled on preclearance.

The SCOTUS has Texas penciled in on their decennial docket.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on September 23, 2011, 07:02:48 PM
Who knows what the statutes are in Texas?

Does the legislature have the right to a redraw or is it in the courts now?

The legislature has a right to redraw if it chooses to.

In any case, the Justice Department isn't final here. The 3 judge panel is.


DOJ has no issues with the Dallas districts and is only complaining about TX-23 again.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 23, 2011, 11:27:51 PM
Who knows what the statutes are in Texas?

Does the legislature have the right to a redraw or is it in the courts now?

The legislature has a right to redraw if it chooses to.

In any case, the Justice Department isn't final here. The 3 judge panel is.


DOJ has no issues with the Dallas districts and is only complaining about TX-23 again.
They don't like districts that elect Republicans.

4 house districts are challenged.

Republicans were elected to all 3 Nueces County districts (two within the county, and a 3rd with just a small portion of the county).  Because of relatively slow growth, there are only 2 districts in the county, and they didn't like where the line was drawn.  San Patricio the largest county in the Nueces+ district was attached to a South Texas (35) district in exchange for Jim Wells.  This district also elected a Republican.

They didn't like how Aaron Pena's district was drawn because he switched parties.

And they didn't like District 117 which is the westernmost banana in Bexar County, and which dropped 58,000 persons and increased the HVAP from 58.7% to 62.7% in the process.  It too chose a Republican Garza instead of the Democrat Leibowitz who was the Hispanic candidate of choice (even though he didn't actually live in the district).

They're still trying to make up their mind about a Houston district with a 21% Asian population (vs 30% Hispanic, 27% Anglo, and 23% Black) and whether that is because the Vietnamese guy is candidate of choice, or that the Hispanics aren't citizens, and the Blacks aren't as politically organized.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on September 24, 2011, 05:06:42 AM
Who knows what the statutes are in Texas?

Does the legislature have the right to a redraw or is it in the courts now?

The legislature has a right to redraw if it chooses to.

In any case, the Justice Department isn't final here. The 3 judge panel is.


DOJ has no issues with the Dallas districts and is only complaining about TX-23 again.
Morons.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on September 24, 2011, 09:01:40 AM
The actual document mentions issues with TX-23, TX-27 and the fact that there wasn't any other VRA district created in DFW.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on September 24, 2011, 09:36:19 AM
The actual document mentions issues with TX-23, TX-27 and the fact that there wasn't any other VRA district created in DFW.

Yes, the last was Veasey's complaints. He wanted to draw himself a district.

http://txredistricting.org/post/10568635928/state-house-and-congressional-districts-in-dispute


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 24, 2011, 11:02:26 AM
The actual document mentions issues with TX-23, TX-27 and the fact that there wasn't any other VRA district created in DFW.

The USDOJ did not.   Their brief includes summaries of the viewpoints of other parties.

They're goofy because they don't recognize 34 as the successor to 27, and that there is no need for Corpus and Brownsville to share a congressional district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on September 24, 2011, 11:08:30 AM

The USDOJ did not.   Their brief includes summaries of the viewpoints of other parties.

They're goofy because they don't recognize 34 as the successor to 27, and that there is no need for Corpus and Brownsville to share a congressional district.

Well, the courts will decide rather or not it is "goofy" or not. There was obviously some partisan tricks involved regarding the VRA districts. At least one more should have been created and DFW was the place for it, it's very easy to draw one there.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 24, 2011, 11:22:21 AM

The USDOJ did not.   Their brief includes summaries of the viewpoints of other parties.

They're goofy because they don't recognize 34 as the successor to 27, and that there is no need for Corpus and Brownsville to share a congressional district.

Well, the courts will decide rather or not it is "goofy" or not. There was obviously some partisan tricks involved regarding the VRA districts. In DFW, there really should be a VRA seat, there is more than enough population to sustain it and the courts may see it like that.

When an area loses a seat and it is moved to another area of the state it is goofy to compare the two.  You might as well compare a district that is lost in New York and ends up in Texas. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on September 26, 2011, 10:41:35 PM
The case worth making (on the Congressional side, at least) is on the DFW Hispanic seat. Arguments with regards to TX-23 are likely to be a lot of nitpicking over very little and I really don't see how you make the argument that TX-34 is not a valid substitute for TX-27.  What is the argument to make for a required Corpus Christi-Brownsville CD, exactly? 

The Austin-San Antonio Hispanic seat is really the only other new Hispanic-opportunity seat that you can create, and I think that the correct argument is that "if this has been created and mandated, which it probably is, then so should a DFW seat."  Certainly one can create more Democratic seats, but they're not going to be Hispanic-opportunity seats (they may be over 50% VAP, but what is that, like 35% voting population max), because white Democrats will likely win, so what is the point in trying to defend the Austin seat, because you can't create a Hispanic opportunity seat there right now.

Or something like this.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on September 27, 2011, 04:11:23 AM
()

I drew this ages ago for a Black and a Hispanic seat in DFW. I didn't bother saving the stats at the time, but as I remember it yellow is fairly solidly majority Hispanic (57 or 59 or something like that, though I forget if that's total or VAP) and cyan is down to 45% Black, with enough Hispanics and Asians to make Blacks clearly dominant. I didn't spend too much time with it and a better version could probably be developped, though apparently the version actually submitted is far worse.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on September 27, 2011, 04:49:53 PM
I drew a version back in Jan to address the Metroplex. I've updated it for the actual Census numbers. CD 30 is 51.7% BVAP and CD 33 is 65.0% HVAP.

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on September 27, 2011, 09:10:57 PM
Surely you don't think that erose excresence you drew is legally required by the VRA do you Muon2? Or do you?  :)  That is the issue here: what the courts will deem legally required. What will Justice Kennedy think?  Nothing else much matters.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on September 27, 2011, 10:22:32 PM
This whole Texas redistricting crap is outrageous.  Basically the DOJ wants Texas to swap one gerrymandered district for another. 

This racial crap is sickening.  The law is one MAN one vote, not one racial group, one vote.  We all have the same right to walk in to the booth and select one candidate for House of Representatives no matter where we live


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on September 27, 2011, 11:41:25 PM
Surely you don't think that erose excresence you drew is legally required by the VRA do you Muon2? Or do you?  :)  That is the issue here: what the courts will deem legally required. What will Justice Kennedy think?  Nothing else much matters.

Well, IL-4 has been legally required since 1990, and its long thin link through railroad yards and cemeteries to connect two different communities is arguably worse than what I drew. I do know that both districts I drew should be able to elect candidates of the minority group's choice. I think that Kennedy dislikes partisan gerrymandering (see Vieth), and will look for other bases in the law to overturn it when it is otherwise non-justiciable (see LULAC).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on September 27, 2011, 11:49:02 PM
This whole Texas redistricting crap is outrageous.  Basically the DOJ wants Texas to swap one gerrymandered district for another. 

This racial crap is sickening.  The law is one MAN one vote, not one racial group, one vote.  We all have the same right to walk in to the booth and select one candidate for House of Representatives no matter where we live

The Constitution says that Congress has the power to pass laws to ensure that the right to vote may not be abridged on the basis of race. Racial gerrymanders were used for decades to disenfranchise minorities, particularly blacks. Congress used its constitutional power to pass the Voting Rights Act. It is as much the law as one man one vote.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on September 28, 2011, 12:04:29 AM
Surely you don't think that erose excresence you drew is legally required by the VRA do you Muon2? Or do you?  :)  That is the issue here: what the courts will deem legally required. What will Justice Kennedy think?  Nothing else much matters.

Well, IL-4 has been legally required since 1990, and its long thin link through railroad yards and cemeteries to connect two different communities is arguably worse than what I drew. I do know that both districts I drew should be able to elect candidates of the minority group's choice. I think that Kennedy dislikes partisan gerrymandering (see Vieth), and will look for other bases in the law to overturn it when it is otherwise non-justiciable (see LULAC).

Yes, but isn't that about preserving some CD rather than creating another net? Or was it entirely a new net minority CD judicially mandated?  SCOTUS ruled that IL-04 was legally required?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 28, 2011, 12:14:20 AM
The Constitution says that Congress has the power to pass laws to ensure that the right to vote may not be abridged on the basis of race. Racial gerrymanders were used for decades to disenfranchise minorities, particularly blacks. Congress used its constitutional power to pass the Voting Rights Act. It is as much the law as one man one vote.

The Constitution says that the apportionment of a State should be reduced in proportion to the share of male citizens over 21 whose right to vote is abridged for any reason, including race.

Let's assume that an activist court would expand that to include women and those over 18.

You are charged with determining how many citizens over the age of 18 have had their right to vote abridged, how many of these because of felonies and rebellion, and how many for other reasons, which you will be expected to itemize.  How would you do it?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 28, 2011, 12:17:46 AM
Surely you don't think that erose excresence you drew is legally required by the VRA do you Muon2? Or do you?  :)  That is the issue here: what the courts will deem legally required. What will Justice Kennedy think?  Nothing else much matters.

Well, IL-4 has been legally required since 1990, and its long thin link through railroad yards and cemeteries to connect two different communities is arguably worse than what I drew. I do know that both districts I drew should be able to elect candidates of the minority group's choice. I think that Kennedy dislikes partisan gerrymandering (see Vieth), and will look for other bases in the law to overturn it when it is otherwise non-justiciable (see LULAC).

Yes, but isn't that about preserving some CD rather than creating another net? Or was it entirely a new net minority CD judicially mandated?  SCOTUS ruled that IL-04 was legally required?
I remember when a Texas senator was discussing IL-4, and he couldn't understand why the Houston districts after the 1990s weren't legal when they were just as bad (though he favored drawing them that way).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on September 28, 2011, 01:55:20 AM
This whole Texas redistricting crap is outrageous.  Basically the DOJ wants Texas to swap one gerrymandered district for another. 

This racial crap is sickening.  The law is one MAN one vote, not one racial group, one vote.  We all have the same right to walk in to the booth and select one candidate for House of Representatives no matter where we live

The Constitution says that Congress has the power to pass laws to ensure that the right to vote may not be abridged on the basis of race.

Literally, you just said the Constitution prevents governments from erecting barriers to voting based on race. Presumably,  that same Constitution prevents governments from creating systems in which the votes of the members of some races carry more weight than the votes of others, which I think is more of Timothy's point.

Quote
Racial gerrymanders were used for decades to disenfranchise minorities, particularly blacks.

Poll taxes and literacy tests were used to "disenfranchise" Blacks, and gerrymandering was used to prevent "franchised" Blacks from winning elections ["disenfranchise" them]. 

Quote
Congress used its constitutional power to pass the Voting Rights Act.

Clearly, the Congress has the Constitutional power to enact enforcements of the reconstruction Amendments. Clearly, the same Congress has no Constitutional authority to deny equal protection to any race, including Caucasians.  Nor, does the Constitution allow members of Congress to mandate the outcomes of elections. Who wins elections is the Constitutional prerogative of the people.

Timothy seems to be claiming that, effectively, the Congress is going into a geographic area and legislating that some of citizen residents of the appropriate age are not to be allowed to win the next election simply because of their race. There really is something very Constitutionally suspect in noting that if a the majority of some voting block is not part of the majority of all voters something untowards has happened. That's overweighting the vote of that block, which is as Constitutionally unacceptable as underweighting it.

In the real world we all have the same de jure right to win an election, but, radically different defacto rights to win an election. People with IQs of 120-130 win more elections than those with IQs of 70-80. Physically attractive candidates win more often than ugly ones. Taller candidates do better than shorter ones. Nicene Protestants win at a greater rate than Mormons. Wealthy people win more often than poor folk. The Communist candidate has lost every Presidential elections, and, hopeful, that will always be the case.

We all believe that the Congress has the right to legislate against religious discrimination. I don't believe that the Congress has authority to legislate the gerrymandering of districts based on religion so that members of disfavored religions can win. Second guessing the motives of voters in the voting booth is a highly dangerous precedent.

There are Constitutional challenges to the VRA working their way through the system. One of the possible outcomes is that Timothy's position prevails. Another possibility is that it is that the VRA is further narrowed to more racially neutral standards.

Finally, I would note that if Allen West were to be gerrymandered out of his seat, and, if Allen West could produce emails from every legislator stating that their motive in redrawing the districts was to eliminate West's district simply because he was Black, he would have no recourse under the VRA as it is certainly enforced. That's utterly bizarre.

Quote
It is as much the law as one man one vote.

Baker vs Carr is a Supreme Court decision, the VRA is a congressional act.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on September 28, 2011, 07:03:48 AM
Il-4 was two sensible blocks connected by a ridiculous corridor. The Houston districts were fractals.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on September 28, 2011, 08:23:17 AM
Surely you don't think that erose excresence you drew is legally required by the VRA do you Muon2? Or do you?  :)  That is the issue here: what the courts will deem legally required. What will Justice Kennedy think?  Nothing else much matters.

Well, IL-4 has been legally required since 1990, and its long thin link through railroad yards and cemeteries to connect two different communities is arguably worse than what I drew. I do know that both districts I drew should be able to elect candidates of the minority group's choice. I think that Kennedy dislikes partisan gerrymandering (see Vieth), and will look for other bases in the law to overturn it when it is otherwise non-justiciable (see LULAC).

Yes, but isn't that about preserving some CD rather than creating another net? Or was it entirely a new net minority CD judicially mandated?  SCOTUS ruled that IL-04 was legally required?

Prior to 1990 there was no Hispanic-majority district in IL. The legislature did not act to produce a map in 1991 and there were a number of suits with proposed maps later that year. The Federal district court mandated a map supported by a plaintiff, Nieves, that sued to create a section 2 Hispanic district. The 7th Circuit affirmed that Nieves was a prevailing party, but the case(s) did not go to SCOTUS.

After the 1993 Shaw decision there was a new suit (King) that attacked the shape of the new IL-04. This went back and forth through the courts as additional SCOTUS decisions in the 1990's needed to be considered. Finally the lower court found that under SCOTUS precedent "remedying a potential violation of or achieving compliance with § 2 [of the Voting Rights Act] is a compelling state interest." Based on that finding, it affirmed the creation of IL-04 as part of the map mandated earlier in the decade. In 1998 SCOTUS summarily affirmed that lower court decision.

I interpret that as an indirect mandate for the creation of the district by SCOTUS.

I don't claim to know if any of this will apply to TX in this cycle.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on September 28, 2011, 11:14:24 AM
IMHO there's a difference between uniting technically separate but similar areas on the west side of the city of Chicago (plus a couple inner burbs), which looks ugly but is not as ugly as it looks, and uniting downtown (and south) Dallas with downtown Forth Worth - let alone doing so twice.
Which, of course, is why I drew my districts in Dallas and its immediate suburbs alone. Though I did cross the county line.
But yeah, to get the Black district over 50% you need to draw it first and put all the Black-and-Hispanic areas in it. Drawing a Hispanic district from what's left after that requires heading to Fort Worth, I think.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on September 29, 2011, 08:59:16 AM
IMHO there's a difference between uniting technically separate but similar areas on the west side of the city of Chicago (plus a couple inner burbs), which looks ugly but is not as ugly as it looks, and uniting downtown (and south) Dallas with downtown Forth Worth - let alone doing so twice.
Which, of course, is why I drew my districts in Dallas and its immediate suburbs alone. Though I did cross the county line.
But yeah, to get the Black district over 50% you need to draw it first and put all the Black-and-Hispanic areas in it. Drawing a Hispanic district from what's left after that requires heading to Fort Worth, I think.

I suspect that the two neighborhoods linked in Chicago are just as politically and culturally distinct as the two linked in my Metroplex map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on September 30, 2011, 02:21:06 PM
IMHO there's a difference between uniting technically separate but similar areas on the west side of the city of Chicago (plus a couple inner burbs), which looks ugly but is not as ugly as it looks, and uniting downtown (and south) Dallas with downtown Forth Worth - let alone doing so twice.
Which, of course, is why I drew my districts in Dallas and its immediate suburbs alone. Though I did cross the county line.
But yeah, to get the Black district over 50% you need to draw it first and put all the Black-and-Hispanic areas in it. Drawing a Hispanic district from what's left after that requires heading to Fort Worth, I think.

I suspect that the two neighborhoods linked in Chicago are just as politically and culturally distinct as the two linked in my Metroplex map.

The two neighborhoods aren't even the same nationality, right? IIRC one is mostly Mexican while the other is predominantly Puertorican.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sbane on September 30, 2011, 02:30:17 PM
IMHO there's a difference between uniting technically separate but similar areas on the west side of the city of Chicago (plus a couple inner burbs), which looks ugly but is not as ugly as it looks, and uniting downtown (and south) Dallas with downtown Forth Worth - let alone doing so twice.
Which, of course, is why I drew my districts in Dallas and its immediate suburbs alone. Though I did cross the county line.
But yeah, to get the Black district over 50% you need to draw it first and put all the Black-and-Hispanic areas in it. Drawing a Hispanic district from what's left after that requires heading to Fort Worth, I think.

I suspect that the two neighborhoods linked in Chicago are just as politically and culturally distinct as the two linked in my Metroplex map.

The two neighborhoods aren't even the same nationality, right? IIRC one is mostly Mexican while the other is predominantly Puertorican.

I guess that's how it used to be, but now Mexicans are predominant in both areas. Muon might know better though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on September 30, 2011, 07:29:03 PM
Judges to draw interim map. (http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Judges-to-draw-interim-map-for-Texas-2197202.php)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on October 01, 2011, 08:24:29 AM
Judges to draw interim map. (http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Judges-to-draw-interim-map-for-Texas-2197202.php)

That link is broken, but I think this is the interim map (http://www.chron.com/default/article/Panel-turns-to-interim-redistricting-map-2197542.php) story you wanted.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on October 01, 2011, 03:20:41 PM
So if the primary is held under the interim map, that means the general would have to be as well. But I guess that won't stop Texas Republicans from another mid-decade redistricting. Of course in Colorado there was a court-drawn map, the Republicans later tried to pass their own map, but it was ruled illegal by a court and that the current map had to stand.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on October 01, 2011, 07:46:27 PM
So if the primary is held under the interim map, that means the general would have to be as well. But I guess that won't stop Texas Republicans from another mid-decade redistricting. Of course in Colorado there was a court-drawn map, the Republicans later tried to pass their own map, but it was ruled illegal by a court and that the current map had to stand.

Not an issue in Texas. The last 2003 remapping remapped a court map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 01, 2011, 09:22:27 PM
Judges to draw interim map. (http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Judges-to-draw-interim-map-for-Texas-2197202.php)

That link is broken, but I think this is the interim map (http://www.chron.com/default/article/Panel-turns-to-interim-redistricting-map-2197542.php) story you wanted.

The actual order from the court is more tentative.

http://www.quorumreport.com/downloadit.cfm?DocID=9142

The filing deadline for the primary (and independent candidates) is in early December, moved back so that ballots can be mailed overseas 45 days before the election.  County election officials are required to create election precincts before Oct 1, and mail out voter registration cards before the first of the year.

The trial has already been held in San Antonio, but the federal court can't act until the districts have been pre-cleared.  If the districts are not pre-cleared, then the trial in San Antonio wouldn't be able to rule on proposed 2010 districts, but would be modifying 2000-based districts.

The DC court has a hearing set for November 2 on a summary motion for pre-clearance, but no trial date other than for the senate plan.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 01, 2011, 10:29:23 PM
So if the primary is held under the interim map, that means the general would have to be as well. But I guess that won't stop Texas Republicans from another mid-decade redistricting. Of course in Colorado there was a court-drawn map, the Republicans later tried to pass their own map, but it was ruled illegal by a court and that the current map had to stand.

In 1996 and 2006, Texas had maps drawn after the primary, and a special election was held in November (with runoffs as necessary in December).

But right now candidates can not file for the primary, which has a December filing deadline (overseas military ballots have to be sent out in mid-January).

In Colorado, the Colorado Supreme Court made a (mis)interpretation of the Colorado Constitution in a politically aligned decision.  The original constitution said that Colorado should elect its sole representative at large; but when it got additional representatives they should be elected from districts drawn by the legislature.  That is, it was simply saying that multiple representatives should be elected from districts.

Later, a language cleanup removed the provision about electing a single representative at large.  The supreme court then interpreted "when" as governing the timing of the redistricting and not the circumstances when it should occur.

Colorado had practically never followed the constitution.  It never had 3 districts, even though it had 3 representatives, and it didn't create 4 districts until 4 years after the 1910 census.  It redistricted in 1920, even though there was no national reapportionment, and then didn't bother for the next 43 years.  If one reads the constitution literally, there is no authority for redistricting under the state constitution since Colorado did not gain additional representatives.   They would be complying with the federal constitution.

So basically, the court ignored 125 years of actual practice, and determined that a district court had acted on behalf of the legislature 2 years earlier, when no one at the time had any notion that was occurring.

In 1991, the Texas legislature redistricted the legislature.  Someone filed in state district court in the Rio Grande Valley, and the State agreed that they had done badly and the district court drew a map that they could never have got through the legislature.  A federal court tossed that decision on due process grounds.   The infamous Ann Richards called a special session to redistrict.  Those maps did not get precleared until mid 1992 after the primaries.  They considered going on with the general elections (someone nominated in "District 5" could run in "District 5" even though they were different districts.   But finally they used the districts drawn by the federal court in 1991, and used the 1992-drawn districts in 1994.  By 1996, the 1992-drawn districts were found unconstitutional.   Rather than actually creating new districts by passing legislation, the Senate agreed to new districts.  If they had actually passed a law, all senate seats would have been up for election, as they had been in 1992 and 1994.  So because of the illegal districts, some voters were assigned to remedial districts where they had never had an opportunity to vote.  So Texas used different senate districts in 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, and 1998.  They did use the same districts in 2000 as they had in 1998.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on October 02, 2011, 12:06:05 PM
So if the primary is held under the interim map, that means the general would have to be as well. But I guess that won't stop Texas Republicans from another mid-decade redistricting. Of course in Colorado there was a court-drawn map, the Republicans later tried to pass their own map, but it was ruled illegal by a court and that the current map had to stand.
That was based on a literalist interpretation of the relevant clause in the Colorado Constitution. It doesn't apply to Texas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 03, 2011, 03:43:17 PM
I figured it would be worthwhile dusting these off.

()

The four new districts were placed in the following manner.  The 33rd district was placed at the common intersection of the three districts with the largest combined population, that is the districts that had the most excess population which could be used to form the new district.  The deficit represents the additional population needed to form 4 equipopulous districts.  The deficit was apportioned among the neighbors of the three districts in proportion to those neighbor's population in excess of the ideal population.  This recognizes that additional population must flow into the area of the new district, and also tends to distribute the new districts around the state.

This process was repeated for the 34th, 35th, and 36th population.  After the location of the new districts was determined, they were initialized with zero population, and the flow was calculated in the same it would be in states where no districts were added.

The four new districts (Red stars on map above):

TX-33 is in the Cedar Park, Round Rock, north Austin area at the intersection of TX-10, TX-21, and TX-31.  These three districts have a population equivalent to 3.923 districts, which means that a new district can be formed almost exclusively from their excess population.  As it turns out, excess population from the DFW and Houston area flows into TX-31 and TX-10 so that TX-21 doesn't actually contribute to the new district.

TX-31 shifts northward into the western Fort Worth suburbs, and becomes much less Austin focused.  Similarly TX-10 becomes much more of a Houston district.

TX-34 in the Frisco area at the intersection of TX-3, TX-4, and TX-26.  These 3 districts have a population equivalent to 3.728 districts, which requires about 200,000 more persons from other districts in North Texas.  TX-3 and TX-26 contribute excess suburban growth to the new district.  TX-4 continues to withdraw to the north and east, giving somewhat of the appearance of a small city district: Sherman, Denison, Greenville, Paris, Texarkana, etc., but continues to have a significant suburban presence.

TX-35 in the Baytown area at the intersection of TX-2, TX-14, and TX-22.  These three districts have a population equivalent to 3.526 districts, which requires around 330,000 from other districts.  The placement of the district to the east of Houston is a consequence of the excess population of TX-10 being used to form TX-33, and not available for creation of a new district in the faster growing northern or western suburbs.  In a sense, TX-33 is a re-creation of the old TX-9 in the Beaumont, Galveston, Clear Lake area.  TX-2 becomes more obviously a northern and northeast suburban Houston district, and TX-14 shifts southwestward down the coast.

TX-36 is near China Grove southeast of San Antonio at the intersection of TX-21, TX-23, and TX-28.  The three districts have a population equivalent to 3.407 districts which means that an additional 420,000 is needed from other districts.  This deficit of 420,000 was based on allocating the excess of TX-21 to TX-33.  Since this is not required, a large share of the needed population can come from TX-21, with addition contributions from elsewhere.

Texas-wide shifts:  Only 7 districts are completely outside the major metropolitan areas, while 2 others have a significant core outside those areas, while still extending into the suburban areas of the major metropolitan areas.  TX-2, TX-4, TX-5, TX-6, TX-8, TX-10, TX-21, TX-23, and TX-31 have a superficial appearance of being rural districts, but their population is concentrated in the suburban areas.

TX-1 in East Texas has an excess population of 25,000 that is shifted to TX-4.  TX-13, TX-19, and TX-11 have a deficit of around 25,000, a tiny deficit of about 400, and a surplus of 12,000 respectively.  TX-13 takes a major infusion from the DFW area, but passes most of it on to TX-31 and the Austin and San Antonio areas.  TX-11 transfers its surplus to TX-21.

TX-16 in El Paso County has an excess of 59,000 which is transferred to TX-23.  TX-15 and TX-27 in south Texas have an excess of 132,000 which they shift to TX-14 as they concentrate more towards the border.

TX-17 extends into the southern DFW suburbs, but would be described as a Waco, Bryan-College Station central Texas district.  Its excess of 62,000 is shifted into TX-31 for transport further south.

TX-28 includes San Antonio suburbs, but has a focus in Laredo and other south Texas areas.  The northern portion will be used in creation of TX-36.

It appears that the Houston area is a little bit short of the excess population needed to create TX-35 (inflow from TX-15 and TX-27 minus outflow from TX-8, but growth in the Harris County portion of TX-10 provided a significant share of the excess that went into creation of TX-33.

The DFW area has an excess of about 150,000 plus a significant portion of the surplus in TX-17.  This is used to top off TX-13, with the bulk being shifted southward to the Austin and San Antonio areas.

A total of 4.105 million persons are shifted in Texas, representing 14.0% of the state, or the equivalent of 5.03 districts.  But this includes the persons moved into the 4 new districts.

If those persons are excluded, then 717 thousand, or 2.9% of the population is shifted.

()

In the DFW area, most shifts are associated with creating TX-34 in the Frisco area, with direct transfers from TX-3, TX-4, and TX-26, supported by secondary transfers from TX-1 (not shown), TX-5, TX-6, and TX-24.  TX-32 is the least populated district in Texas, and TX-30 has a very small surplus.  Population is transferred from TX-6 to make up this deficit in TX-32.

The DFW area produces a surplus of 149K (210K if the surplus in TX-17 is attributed to the suburban areas (Johnson and Hood counties).  This surplus is directed from TX-12 into TX-13, and then into TX-31.  About 25,000 of the surplus is used to erase the deficit in TX-13, one of four Texas districts that are underpopulated.  This could be made up from Wise County.  The remaining population from Parker County would be moved into TX-31.  If the transfer from TX-17 to TX-31 takes place from the northern end of the district, then TX-31 is shifted northward, with roughly comparable population in the western DFW suburbs, Bell County (Killeen and Temple) and northerly parts of Williamson County.

()

In the Houston area, TX-35 is formed east of the city.  This unexpected result is a consequence of TX-33 being created in the Austin area, which depletes the excess population in TX-10 in northwest Harris County, which might have been used to form a new district in areas to north and west of the city.  But in effect, TX-10 becomes a Houston area district with the transfer of the Travis County portion into TX-33.

Rather than population flowing into the Baytown area, TX-35 would be created from the east portions of TX-2 (Jefferson) and TX-14 (Galveston and Chambers).  The contribution from TX-22 might also include Galveston County, along with areas of southeast Harris County.  Thus TX-35 would be somewhat like the old TX-9.

TX-2 would become more clearly a northern and northeast suburban district, while TX-22 would become more of a southwestern suburban district.  TX-14 would move back down the coast, but would continue to have a significant Houston area population.  This process would be aided by a transfer of population of 132K from the extreme northern portions of TX-15 and TX-27.

There are additional secondary transfers from TX-7, TX-8, and TX-9 into TX-2 and TX-14 to make up for the population used to create TX-35.  TX-29 is one of 4 districts below the ideal population which is matches with a similar small surplus in TX-18.  TX-8 provides a small outflow into TX-10, which strengthens the new Houston orientation of TX-10.

()

Two new districts are created in the San Antonio-Austin area, TX-33 in north Austin and its suburbs and TX-36 southeast of San Antonio.

Because of an inflow of about 185K into TX-31 from the DFW area and 65K into TX-10 from the Houston area, no population is transferred from TX-21 into the new TX-33.  If one wanted to avoid a an additional county split, the small transfer of 18K from TX-31 to TX-21 could be from Travis County, with TX-31 then providing a larger portion of TX-33.  With half of a congressional district being contributed to TX-33 by both TX-10 and TX-31, these districts are shifted out of the Austin area, with TX-10 becoming a Houston area district, and TX-31 becoming a central Texas district stretching north to the western DFW suburbs, while the new TX-33 if fully an Austin area district.

TX-36 is created southeast of San Antonio, but would have most of its population in Bexar County.  In effect Bexar county would have 4 districts: TX-20 in the center, TX-23 in the west extending all the way to El Paso; TX-21 in the north extending into the Hill Country and to Austin, and the new TX-36 in south and east extending into counties further east.  I suspect that TX-36 would have the largest share of Bexar County after TX-20.

TX-25 would also contribute to the new district, with counties southeast of Travis County being shifted through TX TX-28 into the new district.  TX-28 would be moved out of the San Antonio area.  TX-16 (El Paso) contributes its surplus of 59K to TX-23 which moves that district slightly to the west.  TX-11 shifts its small surplus to TX-21.  TX-11 also makes up the tiny deficit (400 persons) in TX-19.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on October 04, 2011, 10:54:26 AM
()

()

This is my solution to the Texas redistricting flap.

Harris County 3 Democrat/3 Republican
Navy - 63% McCain 46.7% White, 27% Hispanic
Olive - 61.7% McCain 42.7% White, 35.9% Hispanic
Maroon - 63.3% McCain 49.3% White, 31.9% Hispanic

Yellow - 54.3% Obama 38.7% Hispanic, 35.2% White
Brown - 86.4% Obama 49.3% Black, 35% Hispanic
Pink - 67.2% Obama 74.6 Hispanic, 12.3% Black



Tarrant/Dallas Counties 3 Democrat/3 Republican
Green - 59.4% McCain 55% White, 26% Hispanic
Red - 66.5% McCain 67.7% White, 18.9% Hispanic
Purple - 60% McCain 55.2% White, 28% Hispanic

Blue - 79.9% Obama 42.5% Black, 38.3% Hispanic
Orange - 62.2% Obama 45.7% Hispanic, 28.5% White
Yellow - 67.1% Obama 42.5% Hispanic, 26.2% Black

DWF has the population for 5.98 seats so I just leveled it off and made 6 entirely within those 2 counties.   For the 98,000 extra persons needed to complete Harris' 6th seat, the black seat dips into the black section of Fort Bend Co.


Does't get fairer than 6-6


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 20, 2011, 04:31:58 AM
Here are the proposed interim plans that some of the plaintiff's want the San Antonio district court to put in place, while the DC court is mulling over preclearance.

LULAC plans for South Texas.   TX-27 comes up the coast to Kleberg Count where it swims across Laguna Madre to Padre Island to bypass most of Corpus Christi and Nueces County before coming into Aransas County (there is a ferry) and then connecting back to Calhoun County via Matagorda Island and the splitting into legs that wander into Matagorda County and up to Caldwell County (avoiding Travis County because the Supreme Court said you can't have a district coming from the Rio Grande to Austin - though technically that was from McAllen and this district would be from Brownsville.  So maybe there is a difference.

Farenthold would be put in the open district TX-36 which connects with Hidalgo County which is more reliably Democratic.

TX-27 and TX-15 form a fajita doughnut around TX-36.

()

LULAC plans for DFW create a Hispanic district in Dallas and a coalition district in Tarrant.  They don't change the Houston districts

()

This is the south Texas plan from the Mexican American Legislative Caucus.  Apparently TX-33 is OK as a Hispanic Opportunity district since the area in Travis County is not majority Hispanic.  TX-28 is OK because Laredo is closer to Austin than McAllen, and Henry Cuellar was Secretary of State.   Doggett and McCaul are paired in TX-25.  TX-10 is now an open Houston to Corpus district.  TX-23 now has almost as much of El Paso County as Bexar County, and it is 96% Hispanic.  The rest of El Paso in TX-16 is 76% Hispanic and extends east to Odessa.

()

MALC's proposal for DFW looks like a man holding a gun on another man who is laying down in a prone position.

()

DFW plan form Texas Latino Task Force.  According to the State of Texas briefs, this is the only demonstrated plan that has a majority HCVAP.

()

This is the Texas Latino Task Force plan for Houston.  TX-18 is contiguous.  Barely.  Race was obviously not the driving factor in these maps.

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on October 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
LULAC plans for South Texas.   TX-27 comes up the coast to Kleberg Count where it swims across Laguna Madre to Padre Island to bypass most of Corpus Christi and Nueces County before coming into Aransas County (there is a ferry) and then connecting back to Calhoun County via Matagorda Island and the splitting into legs that wander into Matagorda County and up to Caldwell County (avoiding Travis County because the Supreme Court said you can't have a district coming from the Rio Grande to Austin - though technically that was from McAllen and this district would be from Brownsville.  So maybe there is a difference.

Farenthold would be put in the open district TX-36 which connects with Hidalgo County which is more reliably Democratic.

TX-27 and TX-15 form a fajita doughnut around TX-36.
Ridiculous stuff.
Quote
()

LULAC plans for DFW create a Hispanic district in Dallas and a coalition district in Tarrant.  They don't change the Houston districts

()
Yes. That (not the exact boundaries, mind) is what would fairly inevitably happen under a VRA-compliant and otherwise fair map. Though I fail to see how the Fort Worth district is enforceable from the bench.
And there's nothing (remotely VRA-relevant) wrong with the Houston districts, and no safe White D district that could be conceivably drawn while the three VRA districts exist; so why should they argue for a change here?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on October 21, 2011, 01:30:53 PM
Uh... had a closer look at that Fort Worth district. Yeah well, no.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on October 21, 2011, 05:01:03 PM
I know Torie didn't like my plans, but I see at least two of the submissions are awfully similar to the Latino district I drew long ago. :)

I drew a version back in Jan to address the Metroplex. I've updated it for the actual Census numbers. CD 30 is 51.7% BVAP and CD 33 is 65.0% HVAP.

()

Here are the proposed interim plans that some of the plaintiff's want the San Antonio district court to put in place, while the DC court is mulling over preclearance.

MALC's proposal for DFW looks like a man holding a gun on another man who is laying down in a prone position.

()

DFW plan form Texas Latino Task Force.  According to the State of Texas briefs, this is the only demonstrated plan that has a majority HCVAP.

()



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 21, 2011, 07:08:59 PM
The two districts Dallas-Tarrant Hispanic districts submitted by plaintiffs have 66.1% HVAP, but end up barely majority HCVAP, so yours might be less.

The LULAC plan has a 58.9% HVAP in Tarrant County

The TLTF plan for Harris County has "Black" districts that are around 40% BVAP and 30% HVAP, and "Hispanic" districts that have a 10% BVAP despite the extraordinarily convoluted nature of the districts.  It appears that they drew one Hispanic double district and one Black double district that was in two parts (and extended out to Rosenberg to pick up some Hispanic areas), and then split the Hispanic district in two based on population, and ran a block-wide connector between them to connect the Black districts.

similarly awful or awfully similar?

I know Torie didn't like my plans, but I see at least two of the submissions are awfully similar to the Latino district I drew long ago. :)

I drew a version back in Jan to address the Metroplex. I've updated it for the actual Census numbers. CD 30 is 51.7% BVAP and CD 33 is 65.0% HVAP.

()

Here are the proposed interim plans that some of the plaintiff's want the San Antonio district court to put in place, while the DC court is mulling over preclearance.

MALC's proposal for DFW looks like a man holding a gun on another man who is laying down in a prone position.

()

DFW plan form Texas Latino Task Force.  According to the State of Texas briefs, this is the only demonstrated plan that has a majority HCVAP.

()



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on October 21, 2011, 10:37:25 PM
The two districts Dallas-Tarrant Hispanic districts submitted by plaintiffs have 66.1% HVAP, but end up barely majority HCVAP, so yours might be less.
I was constrained to precincts by DRA, so I suspect you are correct. I did appreciate how close it was to plan even with my crude building blocks.

I thought it interesting that no group seemed to go for the outright BVAP majority that I drew.

Quote
similarly awful or awfully similar?
;)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on October 22, 2011, 06:11:41 AM
The two districts Dallas-Tarrant Hispanic districts submitted by plaintiffs have 66.1% HVAP, but end up barely majority HCVAP, so yours might be less.
Where do you get reliable data on that?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on October 22, 2011, 08:59:24 AM
The two districts Dallas-Tarrant Hispanic districts submitted by plaintiffs have 66.1% HVAP, but end up barely majority HCVAP, so yours might be less.
Where do you get reliable data on that?

At present, the best technique is to apply the 3-year or 5-year ACS data from 2009 onto districts which are closely approximated by the geography of that data. That ACS data uses neither the 2010 geography, nor is it available at the block level. It also is a small sample so it is prone to statistical errors.

The various federal circuits have not agreed on the use of VAP as opposed to CVAP. VAP can be precisely determined from the Census, but CVAP can only be inferred through statistics. However, for Latino populations CVAP better measures voting strength in a district. SCOTUS has not taken up this issue, though many observers believe it will have to address it in this decade of cases.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 22, 2011, 09:28:51 AM
The two districts Dallas-Tarrant Hispanic districts submitted by plaintiffs have 66.1% HVAP, but end up barely majority HCVAP, so yours might be less.
Where do you get reliable data on that?

The 66.1% HVAP is from the Texas redistricting site.  The barely HCVAP is from the brief of the State of Texas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: lowtech redneck on October 30, 2011, 08:58:51 PM
Anybody know why the Republicans didn't create majority-black districts in Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth?  The end result would be the same (i.e. four safe Dem districts), and there would be no room left to carve out a fifth majority-minority district within the two metropolitan areas.

Also, those fajita strips seem to serve no practical demographic or political purpose; why do that instead of making an equal number of more compact, more hispanic, and more Democratic districts out of southern texas and San Antonio?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 31, 2011, 01:11:22 AM
Anybody know why the Republicans didn't create majority-black districts in Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth?  The end result would be the same (i.e. four safe Dem districts), and there would be no room left to carve out a fifth majority-minority district within the two metropolitan areas.

Also, those fajita strips seem to serve no practical demographic or political purpose; why do that instead of making an equal number of more compact, more hispanic, and more Democratic districts out of southern texas and San Antonio?
It might not be practical to create a majority black district.   For example in Dallas.

TX-30 is 41% Black.  TX-3 is 17% Black, TX-5 is 18%, TX-24 is 17%, and TX-32 is 8% (these are numbers for the Dallas County portions).

Only 56% of Dallas County Blacks live in TX-30.   Dallas has a lot of small farm towns that have become suburbs, but most of them have a small area that is the black section of the old town.  So you would have to try to include those areas, and then you would have to pick up areas that Blacks have moved into.  These aren't necessarily adjacent to the traditional areas.  If you have a job at the airport, you might want to live in Irving, for example.  In the 1990s, the Democrats drew a majority Black district and it horrible tentacles as they literally went down to the block level to try to pick up enough people.

You might be able to draw one majority Black district in Houston, but not two.  Houston has 3 major Black areas (NW, NE, and South/SW).  They separate 4 major Hispanic areas, east, north, west northwest, and southwest.  These explain  the shapes of the districts, but also require districts to wrap around each other.

The legislature did increase the Black percentage a couple of percentage points, but it would really take a lot of intricate line drawing to get above that.

The DOJ calculates "opportunity to elect a candidate of minority choice" on a statewide basis.  So what is being disputed now is whether the number of minority districts has increased from 10/32 to 11/32.  Almost doesn't count.  It is the number of districts, not the concentration in the districts.

Many of the border areas have 90% Hispanic population.  So what you need to do is come north and pick up areas which don't have a majority Hispanic population.  Hardly anybody lives in the brush country once you get out of the immediate Rio Grande Valley.  Along the interstate and divided highways, there are no gas stations for 75 miles.   So you have to start out along the border and start drawing north simply to get enough population for 3 or 4 separate districts, and then you have to carefully pick which population you add to a district.   You can't start picking up a lot of areas that are 20% Hispanic, and you may have to zigzag into or around Corpus or Victoria because you might pick up too many Hispanics or too much population.

()

In the above map, TX-27 skips around Nueces County and Corpus Christi, because that is where the Republican incumbent is from.  Most of the area in that skip is water, and you would need an amphibious vehicle to drive from one end of the district to the other.  And because you want to make it look like a coastal district you extend it up to Matagorda County, and then it extends inland to get enough population.

The new district TX-35 takes in Nueces County, but has enough Hidalgo County to outvote it.  You can create a congressional district in Hidalgo County, but that would waste a lot of Hispanic votes.  So you have these pieces of TX-15 and TX-28 coming in to pick up enough Hispanic votes.  You also want to keep these districts further south so that TX-23 picks up the counties north of Webb County, such as Maverick, Zavalla, and Dimmit, as well as southern Bexar County.  This is also intended to show that you can create a minority majority starting in Travis County without coming south all the way to San Antonio.

()

This one takes a different approach.  It strips out the Anglo areas of Corpus Christi from TX-27 and adds a bit more of Cameron County.  This is placed in TX-10 which is converted from an Austin-Houston district with a representative in Austin to a Houston-Corpus district with no incumbent.

TX-33 takes in a more significant chunk of Hidalgo County.  That is because the area of Travis County it takes is the part that is currently in TX-10, and is plurality Anglo.  A similar district was ruled not to be a Hispanic opportunity district because it linked areas with different interests (eg solely on the basis of race).  Apparently, this one is OK because the Hispanic voters in then southern part of the district have the opportunity to choose their candidate of choice without worrying what the Anglo voters in Austin want.

This plan also avoids taking out too many minority voters in Travis County so Lloyd Doggett can be re-elected.  This means that TX-34 has to take more Hispanic voters out of San Antonio.   It also pushes TX-20 further north.

To make up for the loss of population, TX-23 takes in more of El Paso,  And then TX-16 which is currently in El Paso County extends east to Odessa.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: lowtech redneck on October 31, 2011, 02:14:03 AM
Anybody know why the Republicans didn't create majority-black districts in Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth?  The end result would be the same (i.e. four safe Dem districts), and there would be no room left to carve out a fifth majority-minority district within the two metropolitan areas.

Also, those fajita strips seem to serve no practical demographic or political purpose; why do that instead of making an equal number of more compact, more hispanic, and more Democratic districts out of southern texas and San Antonio?

You might be able to draw one majority Black district in Houston, but not two.  Houston has 3 major Black areas (NW, NE, and South/SW).  They separate 4 major Hispanic areas, east, north, west northwest, and southwest.  These explain  the shapes of the districts, but also require districts to wrap around each other.

The legislature did increase the Black percentage a couple of percentage points, but it would really take a lot of intricate line drawing to get above that.

The DOJ calculates "opportunity to elect a candidate of minority choice" on a statewide basis.  So what is being disputed now is whether the number of minority districts has increased from 10/32 to 11/32.  Almost doesn't count.  It is the number of districts, not the concentration in the districts.


You misunderstand, I'm referring to the creation of one black district and one hispanic district in each metropolitan area, for a combined total of four majority-minority districts.  Its very easily done, and the gerrymandering looks no worse on the map than what the Republicans already produced.  Doing everything I said in my previous post, I was able to produce 12 majority-minority districts, including two hispanic Republican districts.  Of the other 8, 5 were along the Mexican border (one stretching from Laredo to San Antonio, but still more compact than the official map), one in the urban core of San Antonio, one in Austin, and one along the Gulf of Mexico.

I'll add the district profiles later, and if I can figure out how*, I'll post the map.

*The first part of my name is sadly quite accurate, and I already failed at my first attempt at posting my maps.

Edit: I just remembered that the criteria is voting age population, not total population; I'll have to make some changes.  Here's where I'm at right now, with voting age in parentheses.

Edit2: this list now officially serves no point except to drill the information I have learned into my brain.

Mexican border, from left to right:

1.) 81.6 (79.2) hispanic, 66.0 Obama.

2.) 54.1 (49.6) hispanic, 58.4 McCain.

3.) 87.2 (84.8) hispanic, 69.1 Obama.  This district is comprised of Maverik, Zavala, Dimmit, Frio, La Salle, Atoscosa, most of Webb, and part of Bexar counties.

4.) 90.0 (87.8) hispanic, 68.3 Obama.  This district is comprised of Jim Wells, Duvall, Jim Hoag, Brooks, Starr, Zapata, part of Webb, and the majority of Hidalgo counties.

5.) 88.8 (85.8) hispanic, 67.2 Obama.  This district is comprised of Kleberg, Kenedy, Willac, Cameron, and part of Hidalgo counties.

I'll need to adjust #2, but the latter 3 are all more compact and better Democratic vote sinks than the Republican plan.

6.) San Antonio District: 67.1 (63.7) hispanic, 64.7 Obama.

7.) Austin district: 50.1 (44.1) hispanic, 68.4 Obama.  This one wouldn't even have worked with a bare majority, it seems-I might as well have concentrated on creating a maximized Democratic vote sink.

8.) Gulf district: 52.0 (47.7) hispanic, 58.6 McCain.  Another one that would have had to be reworked, but that's a moot point now.






Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on October 31, 2011, 02:52:31 AM
Anybody know why the Republicans didn't create majority-black districts in Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth?  The end result would be the same (i.e. four safe Dem districts), and there would be no room left to carve out a fifth majority-minority district within the two metropolitan areas.

Also, those fajita strips seem to serve no practical demographic or political purpose; why do that instead of making an equal number of more compact, more hispanic, and more Democratic districts out of southern texas and San Antonio?

You might be able to draw one majority Black district in Houston, but not two.  Houston has 3 major Black areas (NW, NE, and South/SW).  They separate 4 major Hispanic areas, east, north, west northwest, and southwest.  These explain  the shapes of the districts, but also require districts to wrap around each other.

The legislature did increase the Black percentage a couple of percentage points, but it would really take a lot of intricate line drawing to get above that.

The DOJ calculates "opportunity to elect a candidate of minority choice" on a statewide basis.  So what is being disputed now is whether the number of minority districts has increased from 10/32 to 11/32.  Almost doesn't count.  It is the number of districts, not the concentration in the districts.


You misunderstand, I'm referring to the creation of one black district and one hispanic district in each metropolitan area, for a combined total of four majority-minority districts.  Its very easily done, and the gerrymandering looks no worse on the map than what the Republicans already produced.  Doing everything I said in my previous post, I was able to produce 12 majority-minority districts, including two hispanic Republican districts.  Of the other 8, 5 were along the Mexican border (one stretching from Laredo to San Antonio, but still more compact than the official map), one in the urban core of San Antonio, one in Austin, and one along the Gulf of Mexico.

I'll add the district profiles later, and if I can figure out how*, I'll post the map.

*The first part of my name is sadly quite accurate, and I already failed at my first attempt at posting my maps.


You have to get around 58% HCVAP for a district to be considered an effective minority district.  Texas is in court now defending TX-23 which is 63.8% HVAP,


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: lowtech redneck on October 31, 2011, 03:07:25 AM

You have to get around 58% HCVAP for a district to be considered an effective minority district.  Texas is in court now defending TX-23 which is 63.8% HVAP,


Wow...that's friggin' insane.  I admit I was assuming that the number was the same as for black districts.

I'll continue with my list on the previous post for the hell of it, though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on October 31, 2011, 01:01:42 PM
I was assuming that the number was the same as for black districts.
Wow... that's friggin' insane.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: lowtech redneck on October 31, 2011, 01:29:26 PM

Speaking of which, would limiting the number of 58+ VRA hispanic districts be given legal cover by the creation of two majority-minority black seats (with a large number of hispanic Democrats included in each district by necessity)?  I still don't see why it would not be in the Republican's interests to do this (as opposed to the 40-40 black/hispanic thing they have going in three districts), and I'm assuming 50+ is still the standard for black VRA seats?  For that matter, are the 40-40 seats even VRA seats by some legal standard I am unaware of?



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on October 31, 2011, 01:47:56 PM
That's the beauty of the VRA. What it actually does is ban racial gerrymandering, ie the kind of calculations you (and politicians) are currently engaging in. This is why you'll never get a hard-and-fast, "if you do this the courts can't touch you" definition - nothing could be further from the spirit of the law.
As is, you need an at least sorta compact hypothetical district in an area that's over 50% the given minority to successfully argue against a state that it must draw an opportunity district here (up to approximately the minority's share in the state) - but an opportunity district drawn by the state doesn't have to fulfill that 50% figure. (So, yeah, those 40-odd% Black districts with some Hispanics in them as well are protected districts. Though if their shapes are odd it serves states defending them in court well to argue that they are not protected and are perfectly legal purely partisan gerrymanders that just happen to be full of Blacks; adding a further layer of complexity.) But this doesn't help us at all in the case of Mexicans, because there's no way a 51% Mexican, 49% Anglo VAP district doesn't elect a candidate of the Anglo's choice. They are a huge majority of the actual registered voters, after all. So your entire guiding line is that you'll have to draw as many districts as possible that will elect a candidate of Hispanics' choice without them being gerrymandered, with the latter term as defined by the court after its seen your maps. The actual geography of the place, and its White and Hispanic voting patterns, will have to be taken into account in deciding whether your district is safe enough.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: lowtech redneck on October 31, 2011, 03:27:02 PM
That's the beauty of the VRA. What it actually does is ban racial gerrymandering, ie the kind of calculations you (and politicians) are currently engaging in.

I love irony.

Anyway, Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth are capable of creating black-majority districts whose contortions are no worse (and in many instances look much better) than elsewhere, and the voting patterns of the urban hispanics in both places make a 58+ standard overkill (its the rural and suburban hispanics north of Corpus Cristie that lack pronounced partisan tendencies, which would seem to neccessitate an even higher bar than 58 to screw over non-hispanics in those districts, if the fluid parameters you outlined were to be objectively applied).   

Also, wasn't part of the challenge to the Texas plan the fact that the (compact) black-plurality district in Dallas-Fort Worth prevents the creation of a hispanic VRA district in the area (I'm still confused on that issue)?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Verily on October 31, 2011, 05:08:28 PM
That's the beauty of the VRA. What it actually does is ban racial gerrymandering, ie the kind of calculations you (and politicians) are currently engaging in.

I love irony.

Anyway, Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth are capable of creating black-majority districts whose contortions are no worse (and in many instances look much better) than elsewhere, and the voting patterns of the urban hispanics in both places make a 58+ standard overkill (its the rural and suburban hispanics north of Corpus Cristie that lack pronounced partisan tendencies, which would seem to neccessitate an even higher bar than 58 to screw over non-hispanics in those districts, if the fluid parameters you outlined were to be objectively applied).    

Also, wasn't part of the challenge to the Texas plan the fact that the (compact) black-plurality district in Dallas-Fort Worth prevents the creation of a hispanic VRA district in the area (I'm still confused on that issue)?

First off, the difference between rural Hispanics and urban Hispanics is not partisanship (this should be obvious, just look at the voting patterns of somewhere like Zavala County). The difference is registration and turnout as well as the partisan/racial voting patterns of non-Hispanics. Hispanics in urban areas are much more likely to be registered voters, and they're much more likely to vote, than Hispanics in rural areas.

Additionally, Hispanics in urban areas tend to live in places where the non-Hispanic voters are more amenable to voting for Hispanic-preferred candidates (inevitably Democrats). A 50% Hispanic, 50% Anglo voting tract in Houston probably voted narrowly for Obama, or at least was marginal. A 50% Hispanic, 50% Anglo voting tract in rural Texas probably voted around 60% for McCain, in some places well over 60% for McCain. The difference is not mostly in the Hispanic voters, though (even assuming identical registration and turnout rates); it's mostly among the Anglo voters, who were moderately Republican in the Houston tract but overwhelmingly Republican in the rural tract. Additionally, urban voting tracts are more likely to have non-negligible non-Hispanic, non-Anglo populations (blacks and Asians, essentially nonexistent in rural Texas [except East Texas, but there are few Hispanics there]) that also are amenable to voting for Hispanic-preferred candidates.

There are still a few areas where the Hispanic percentage and the Democratic percentage don't line up, even accounting for registration, turnout and non-Hispanic votes. These are all in the panhandle area. They're basically explained the same way "Native American" areas in Oklahoma voting Republican are explained. It's a bunch of people of tenuously Hispanic ancestry who've lived in the area for centuries who really are not appropriately grouped with the residents of the Rio Grande Valley or the urban barrios.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: lowtech redneck on October 31, 2011, 06:00:17 PM
First off, the difference between rural Hispanics and urban Hispanics is not partisanship (this should be obvious, just look at the voting patterns of somewhere like Zavala County). The difference is registration and turnout as well as the partisan/racial voting patterns of non-Hispanics.

Zavalas county is located south of Corpus Cristie, which I noted as safe Democrat territory.  I was basing my claim on hispanic voters living in safe Republican precints wherein the McCain vote was substantially higher than the proportion of white voters (in many instances the hispanics comprised a majority or plurality of the population, oftentimes with large Asian and even substantial black minorities).  Assuming a 75-25 break for McCain among white voters, the numbers have to be accounted for among the minorities; the blacks are obviously not the source, and the Asians are not always present in large numbers where this pattern exists.  I think a likely explanation for the difference from the Mexican border and the barrios (aside from greater integration with the dominant culture) is the proportion of voters descended from illegal immigrants (I don't know if this has ever been subject to credible research).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 01, 2011, 03:41:29 PM
http://www.kwtx.com/centraltexasvotes/localheadlines/_Panel_Says_Temporary_Texas_Voting_District_Map_Unlikely_133004788.html

A three-judge federal panel in San Antonio says it's unlikely that it will approve district maps to be used temporarily for next year's congressional primaries while legal challenges to Texas redistricting proceed.



Interesting.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 01, 2011, 03:55:54 PM

Also, wasn't part of the challenge to the Texas plan the fact that the (compact) black-plurality district in Dallas-Fort Worth prevents the creation of a hispanic VRA district in the area (I'm still confused on that issue)?
It does, at least in the shape that it is now, and at least for a compact hispanic district (one not stretching all the way from downtown Dallas to downtown Fort Worth). There are a number of areas in Dallas that have many Black and many Hispanic but few or no White residents.
Also, it's not enough that the Hispanic district elect a Democrat - it also needs to elect the Democrat the Hispanics vote for in the primary. Yes, that is going to be an issue in a 51% Hispanic Dallas district. (Heck, the Hispanic district in Houston is still held by a White man. Though he couldn't hold it these days if he wasn't the Hispanics' candidate of choice, of course. When he was first elected though, it was a different matter.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 03, 2011, 11:54:24 AM
http://www.kwtx.com/centraltexasvotes/localheadlines/_Panel_Says_Temporary_Texas_Voting_District_Map_Unlikely_133004788.html

A three-judge federal panel in San Antonio says it's unlikely that it will approve district maps to be used temporarily for next year's congressional primaries while legal challenges to Texas redistricting proceed.


The state suggested using the maps approved by the legislature, and the maps proposed by the plaintiffs are crap.  So the judges are stuck with siding with one of the parties, or drawing its own map.  And the court denied intervention by a person who could likely draw a reasonable map.

Filing for the primary begins on the 12th of November.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on November 08, 2011, 01:47:25 PM
http://www.kwtx.com/centraltexasvotes/localheadlines/_Panel_Says_Temporary_Texas_Voting_District_Map_Unlikely_133004788.html

A three-judge federal panel in San Antonio says it's unlikely that it will approve district maps to be used temporarily for next year's congressional primaries while legal challenges to Texas redistricting proceed.



Interesting.

The court bounced (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67859.html) the map. The Pubbies think they will have another bite out of the apple. I assume they counted on that when they over-reached. If they didn't, or don't get another bite, they are in a word, colossal dumbs.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 08, 2011, 03:05:36 PM
That does mean they were dumbs in opting to go directly to court, rather than to Holder, for preclearance. Nothing else as far as I can see.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 08, 2011, 03:54:04 PM
I figured it would be worthwhile dusting these off.

Hmm. Looking at these, I see.

1. New GOP district in Frisco. New problems for Pete Sessions. Burgess and Marchant look ok.
2. New tossup/lean Dem district in Williamson/Travis.
3. New GOP district in South San Antonio going east.
4. New GOP district in Galveston along with some discomfort for John Carter?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 08, 2011, 05:26:55 PM
http://www.kwtx.com/centraltexasvotes/localheadlines/_Panel_Says_Temporary_Texas_Voting_District_Map_Unlikely_133004788.html

A three-judge federal panel in San Antonio says it's unlikely that it will approve district maps to be used temporarily for next year's congressional primaries while legal challenges to Texas redistricting proceed.

Interesting.

The court bounced (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67859.html) the map. The Pubbies think they will have another bite out of the apple. I assume they counted on that when they over-reached. If they didn't, or don't get another bite, they are in a word, colossal dumbs.

The order by the DC Court said that Texas had used an "improper analysis" in determining whether a district was a minority opportunity district.

The USDOJ latest brief says that Texas erred in using a bare majority to determine whether a district was a minority opportunity district (being a lawyer, you probably recognize a 58% HCVAP as being a bare majority), and that Texas should have used a "functional analysis" which means looking at election results, and mandates political gerrymandering.

The USDOJ expert drew a plan for TX-23 that only required modifying 6 neighboring districts that the USDOJ liked better.  After it was pointed out that she had drawn Canseco out of the district, she drew another map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on November 08, 2011, 07:58:21 PM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.

I'm sick of hearing the Latinos and blacks complain that they need "minority opportunity" districts


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Padfoot on November 08, 2011, 11:36:39 PM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.

I'm sick of hearing the Latinos and blacks complain that they need "minority opportunity" districts

So you're saying that the one black guy in Wyoming has an equal opportunity to get elected as one of the hundreds of thousands of black people living in Houston or Dallas?

This country has a long history of racial discrimination and despite electing a black president there are still pockets where it is going strong.  Protecting minority voting rights unfortunately still mandates that minorities be concentrated enough within a district to elect a member of their choosing.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: lowtech redneck on November 09, 2011, 05:10:37 AM
This country has a long history of racial discrimination and despite electing a black president there are still pockets where it is going strong.  Protecting minority voting rights unfortunately still mandates that minorities be concentrated enough within a district to elect a member of their choosing.

Whether that's true or not, the minorities in question comprised more than the accepted 'majority' standard in the district under dispute; if that 58% concentration is now viewed as insufficient, then whoever has the authority to determine these things should have been required to make that known beforehand.  To create a new standard after the fact is purely arbitrary government, and an exercise in (and blatant excuse for) Judicial activism.

I could have accepted a decision based on the lack of a second minority district in Dallas, but invalidating the map on the other basis seems like an abuse of judicial authority to me.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 09, 2011, 05:28:16 AM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.

I'm sick of hearing the Latinos and blacks complain that they need "minority opportunity" districts

So you're saying that the one black guy in Wyoming has an equal opportunity to get elected as one of the hundreds of thousands of black people living in Houston or Dallas?

This country has a long history of racial discrimination and despite electing a black president there are still pockets where it is going strong.  Protecting minority voting rights unfortunately still mandates that minorities be concentrated enough within a district to elect a member of their choosing.
Barack Obama couldn't get elected in a VRA district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 09, 2011, 11:45:47 AM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.
You only need to live in the state, not the district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 09, 2011, 01:18:24 PM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.
You only need to live in the state, not the district.
The "opportunity" is not for the candidate, but for the class of voters.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 09, 2011, 01:19:38 PM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.
You only need to live in the state, not the district.
The "opportunity" is not for the candidate, but for the class of voters.
And it is not to vote in an election, but to determine the outcome. (Then again, that opportunity exists in every close election, no? ;D )


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: TJ in Oregon on November 09, 2011, 02:55:07 PM
I agree with lowtech. It would be nice is the law was more mechanical about determining what cases where a minority-majority district would be required (or what constitutes a minority-majority district in the case of Hispanics where 50% + 1 VAP doesn't necessarily cut it). I'm not a huge fan of litigation and I never have been. As bad as some of our elected politicians are, they at least are elected and held accountable to someone. A court...man I don't trust courts.

Most of the VRA is ironically an aid to segregation: it works to ensure blacks will be represented by blacks and whites will be represented by whites. We end up selecting government officials first and foremost by the color of their skin. It's utterly bizarre and backward to think about, yet such a deep part of the political sausage-making when it comes to redistricting that the process would be considerably different without it. Imagine an Ohio map drawn without having add on the strange tail from Cleveland to Akron just so OH-11 is 51% black instead of 48% black. Or the collection of black state senators who said they might vote for the crazy GOP gerrymander if we tacked on part of Dayton to the Columbus seat to make it majority black. I mean, really? Yet, as a Republican it can be rather amusing to watch.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 09, 2011, 05:49:16 PM
http://www.kwtx.com/centraltexasvotes/localheadlines/_Panel_Says_Temporary_Texas_Voting_District_Map_Unlikely_133004788.html

A three-judge federal panel in San Antonio says it's unlikely that it will approve district maps to be used temporarily for next year's congressional primaries while legal challenges to Texas redistricting proceed.

Interesting.

The court bounced (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67859.html) the map. The Pubbies think they will have another bite out of the apple. I assume they counted on that when they over-reached. If they didn't, or don't get another bite, they are in a word, colossal dumbs.

The order by the DC Court said that Texas had used an "improper analysis" in determining whether a district was a minority opportunity district.

The USDOJ latest brief says that Texas erred in using a bare majority to determine whether a district was a minority opportunity district (being a lawyer, you probably recognize a 58% HCVAP as being a bare majority), and that Texas should have used a "functional analysis" which means looking at election results, and mandates political gerrymandering.

The USDOJ expert drew a plan for TX-23 that only required modifying 6 neighboring districts that the USDOJ liked better.  After it was pointed out that she had drawn Canseco out of the district, she drew another map.


In addition, they want the Hispanics in Nueces County placed back into TX-34 rather than in the new TX-27. Not sure what that accomplishes other than cleaving Nueces County into 2.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 09, 2011, 05:51:58 PM
Here is my attempt at a map based on the Jimtrex parameters.

http://www.redracinghorses.com/diary/1348/a-least-change-texas-map


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on November 09, 2011, 09:58:23 PM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.

I'm sick of hearing the Latinos and blacks complain that they need "minority opportunity" districts

So you're saying that the one black guy in Wyoming has an equal opportunity to get elected as one of the hundreds of thousands of black people living in Houston or Dallas?

This country has a long history of racial discrimination and despite electing a black president there are still pockets where it is going strong.  Protecting minority voting rights unfortunately still mandates that minorities be concentrated enough within a district to elect a member of their choosing.

Yup.  Exactly.  Your statement is ridiculous.   Minority voters can always elect a member of their choice.  They walk into the voting booth and choose a candidate for congress.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Miles on November 09, 2011, 10:08:03 PM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.

I'm sick of hearing the Latinos and blacks complain that they need "minority opportunity" districts

So you're saying that the one black guy in Wyoming has an equal opportunity to get elected as one of the hundreds of thousands of black people living in Houston or Dallas?

This country has a long history of racial discrimination and despite electing a black president there are still pockets where it is going strong.  Protecting minority voting rights unfortunately still mandates that minorities be concentrated enough within a district to elect a member of their choosing.

Yup.  Exactly.  Your statement is ridiculous.   Minority voters can always elect a member of their choice.  They walk into the voting booth and choose a candidate for congress.




Opprotunity districts are drawn so that minorities have a chance to actually elect a candidate of their choice, as opposed to just voting for one (as your last post implies).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 09, 2011, 11:15:38 PM

Opprotunity districts are drawn so that minorities have a chance to actually elect a candidate of their choice, as opposed to just voting for one (as your last post implies).

But you then end up with voters of the wrong race for their district.  So a Hispanic in a majority white district is not disenfranchised even thought he decided to go fishing on election day, because somebody somewhere else was able to elect the candidate of choice of the fisherman's race.  You've transformed voting into a collective right.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 09, 2011, 11:29:32 PM
Here is my attempt at a map based on the Jimtrex parameters.

http://www.redracinghorses.com/diary/1348/a-least-change-texas-map

I did the DFW area and got tired.  I think it really works out to create the Frisco district.  In some cases, I didn't follow my instructions since I saw I could move population directly into the new district, so you kind of pull TX-4 eastward so it more or less goes north from Rockwall, and then take the northern part of TX-3 and leave it as a Plano district.  Take the Denton part of TX-24, and the northern part of TX-26 (staying out of Denton city).

TX-30 and TX-5 didn't move.  TX-32, TX-24, and TX-26 moved west, TX-26 is a lot more compact since it lose Cooke as well.  TX-6 becomes definitely an Arlington district, with Ellis and some of Navarro.  Arlington-Johnson makes more sense, but that would count as a population shift.  So TX-17 moves some to the east.

TX-31 and TX-10(west) was a problem because if I did what I suggested, you would pair Carter and McCaul.  So instead TX-31 becomes Williamson-Bell, and the district becomes Travis part of Williamson, and then swings up through McLennan and points north.   This of it sort of like the current TX-31, but with Travis instead of Williamson.  And you did move Orange directly from TX-8 to the new district, so it is a direct shift.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 15, 2011, 08:44:34 AM
DOJ's proposed remedy basically modifies the same 3 districts again; TX-23, TX-20, TX-21.

Both TX-23 and TX-20 become ~57% Obama districts and TX-20 doesn't even sit in Bexar County.

http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PLANc219


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on November 15, 2011, 05:03:40 PM
To my knowledge, all 435 House districts have a non-Hispanic white person over the age of 25.  Thus, every district in this county is a minority opportunity district.

I'm sick of hearing the Latinos and blacks complain that they need "minority opportunity" districts

So you're saying that the one black guy in Wyoming has an equal opportunity to get elected as one of the hundreds of thousands of black people living in Houston or Dallas?

This country has a long history of racial discrimination and despite electing a black president there are still pockets where it is going strong.  Protecting minority voting rights unfortunately still mandates that minorities be concentrated enough within a district to elect a member of their choosing.

Yup.  Exactly.  Your statement is ridiculous.   Minority voters can always elect a member of their choice.  They walk into the voting booth and choose a candidate for congress.




Opprotunity districts are drawn so that minorities have a chance to actually elect a candidate of their choice, as opposed to just voting for one (as your last post implies).

Under the presumption that minorities are sheep and they all vote the same way.  That's offensive.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on November 15, 2011, 05:41:13 PM
There's no such presumption involved, actually. :) For a VRA district to be required, a minority group (that is large enough and inhabits territory compact enough to meet the Gingles threshold) must be shown to vote as a block for specific candidates that would not be elected otherwise.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 17, 2011, 11:01:42 PM
DOJ's proposed remedy basically modifies the same 3 districts again; TX-23, TX-20, TX-21.

Both TX-23 and TX-20 become ~57% Obama districts and TX-20 doesn't even sit in Bexar County.

http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PLANc219

The USDOJ claimed that the Hispanic turnout would be reduced substantially in TX-23.  What they failed to mention was that current TX-23 has 150,000 persons too many, and that turnout of all races would be reduced.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on November 22, 2011, 10:31:54 PM
I don't understand why the TX GOP wouldn't make Gene Green's seat a swing seat by doing something like this in the Houston area:

()

TX-29 (in grey-green) INCREASES its Hispanic VAP from 66.1 to 66.9%, it better respects municipal boundaries (no longer splitting the major cities of Pasadena and Baytown in half); and Obama still won the district (50.4%) so it's not like Democrats can argue that their candidate will be shut out. 

Yellow is SJL's district which is now up to 49.6% black, 33.9% Hispanic; Al Green gets cyan (where whites are the 4th largest race! 29.9% black, 40.6% Hispanic, 14.1% Asian, 13.9% white - is there anywhere else outside of NY and LA where one can do that in such a compact fashion?); and as a further bonus, a new majority-minority (49.9% white) entirely-in-Harris district in purple (which happens to be 63.1% McCain). 

With all of these minority-friendly modifications I can't see how there could possibly be any legitimate VRA issue.  But I'm sure you'll let me know. 

The grey district to the west is TX-07 for Culberson (unchanged in PVI: 58% McCain); Pete Olson's TX-22 in bright green gains a point of Republican PVI (now 59.4% McCain).  Both of these keep their previous shape, for the most part.  TX-02 in Green still has Humble for Ted Poe and still goes out east to Beaumont; and then there's a Galveston district to the south in bronze.  (Outer districts aren't complete, but they're obviously safely Republican.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 23, 2011, 12:26:30 AM
I don't understand why the TX GOP wouldn't make Gene Green's seat a swing seat by doing something like this in the Houston area:

()

TX-29 (in grey-green) INCREASES its Hispanic VAP from 66.1 to 66.9%, it better respects municipal boundaries (no longer splitting the major cities of Pasadena and Baytown in half); and Obama still won the district (50.4%) so it's not like Democrats can argue that their candidate will be shut out. 

Yellow is SJL's district which is now up to 49.6% black, 33.9% Hispanic; Al Green gets cyan (where whites are the 4th largest race! 29.9% black, 40.6% Hispanic, 14.1% Asian, 13.9% white - is there anywhere else outside of NY and LA where one can do that in such a compact fashion?); and as a further bonus, a new majority-minority (49.9% white) entirely-in-Harris district in purple (which happens to be 63.1% McCain). 

With all of these minority-friendly modifications I can't see how there could possibly be any legitimate VRA issue.  But I'm sure you'll let me know. 

The grey district to the west is TX-07 for Culberson (unchanged in PVI: 58% McCain); Pete Olson's TX-22 in bright green gains a point of Republican PVI (now 59.4% McCain).  Both of these keep their previous shape, for the most part.  TX-02 in Green still has Humble for Ted Poe and still goes out east to Beaumont; and then there's a Galveston district to the south in bronze.  (Outer districts aren't complete, but they're obviously safely Republican.)

Harris County is in court now with regard to a commissioners precinct that is somewhat similar to TX-29 (except it has about 1 million people) and must extend further north or somewhere.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on November 23, 2011, 12:57:34 PM
Plan released.

At first glance: it creates a Tarrant-only Dem district.

Keeps Travis split three ways but gives Doggett a compact, winnable district not including Bexar.

35th district is Hispanic and based in Bexar County.

Looks like it restores 27th as a Hispanic district and moves Farenthold into a 34th district equivalent to what the R's had done with 27 before, but only a small slice of Nueces.

I can't analyze Bexar, but Canseco got some territory that the R gerrymander had assigned to TX-20 and lost some in north Bexar, so that can't be good for him. He picked up some rural territory that is heavily Hispanic, but whose electorate in many cases is probably still quite R.

12 D districts plus whatever TX-23 is.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on November 23, 2011, 12:58:33 PM
At least 10 districts wander into Harris County. I don't understand what they did with TX-2.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 23, 2011, 01:38:29 PM
Plan released.

At first glance: it creates a Tarrant-only Dem district.

Keeps Travis split three ways but gives Doggett a compact, winnable district not including Bexar.

35th district is Hispanic and based in Bexar County.

Looks like it restores 27th as a Hispanic district and moves Farenthold into a 34th district equivalent to what the R's had done with 27 before, but only a small slice of Nueces.

I can't analyze Bexar, but Canseco got some territory that the R gerrymander had assigned to TX-20 and lost some in north Bexar, so that can't be good for him. He picked up some rural territory that is heavily Hispanic, but whose electorate in many cases is probably still quite R.

12 D districts plus whatever TX-23 is.

Canseco is in a 51% Obama district. Same as he just won. The Democrats get their 9 + TX-27 +  TX-33 and probably TX-35, although that one is only 54.5% Obama too.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 23, 2011, 01:42:11 PM
Canseco's new district is more Democratic than the one he won in 2010 (edit: This looks like a reply to Krazen now. It isn't. And I can't back it up besides "I read it on the internet".)

That Tarrant district they drew is 40% Hispanic, 28% White, 27% Black... these kind of demographics frequently favor Black candidates.
And I wonder about that 35th - they drew it out of Austin so it's only 55% Hispanic now, even though still clearly Dem-leaning (enough white Dems in Hays. Also, the Black bits of Bexar). Maybe they figure that it's safely enough Hispanic because there's two obvious Representative-apparents, and both are Hispanic - Senor Ciro Rodriguez, and Doggett's primary opponent Joaquin Castro.

Somebody said that McCaul might be in trouble... looks exaggerated to me, though I wouldn't be surprised to hear Obama won the district.
EDIT: Didn't. Went up three points, though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 23, 2011, 02:06:10 PM
Canseco's new district is more Democratic than the one he won in 2010 (edit: This looks like a reply to Krazen now. It isn't. And I can't back it up besides "I read it on the internet".)

That Tarrant district they drew is 40% Hispanic, 28% White, 27% Black... these kind of demographics frequently favor Black candidates.
And I wonder about that 35th - they drew it out of Austin so it's only 55% Hispanic now, even though still clearly Dem-leaning (enough white Dems in Hays. Also, the Black bits of Bexar). Maybe they figure that it's safely enough Hispanic because there's one obvious Representative-apparent, and he's Hispanic - Senor Ciro Rodriguez.

Somebody said that McCaul might be in trouble... looks exaggerated to me, though I wouldn't be surprised to hear Obama won the district.


No need to speculate. Pretty much every incumbent has a safe district. The McCaul district spans 2 very expensive metros and McCain got 52% there.

http://d2o6nd3dubbyr6.cloudfront.net/media/documents/PlanC220_RED206_2008G_Statewides.pdf


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on November 23, 2011, 02:07:24 PM
Great, so if future elections are like 2010 and no one brings up his bankruptcies, Canseco is home free.

D+3 or
D+4.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 23, 2011, 02:17:34 PM
Great, so if future elections are like 2010 and no one brings up his bankruptcies, Canseco is home free.

D+3 or
D+4.

He also needs a quality opponent of course. Not much of Bexar is left there and Bexar Democrats have their own new district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 23, 2011, 02:36:21 PM
Great, so if future elections are like 2010 and no one brings up his bankruptcies, Canseco is home free.

D+3 or
D+4.

He also needs a quality opponent of course. Not much of Bexar is left there and Bexar Democrats have their own new district.
*looks up who represents Eagle Pass and Del Rio in the Texas State House*

Pete Gallego for Congress?

Obama share went up by 0.4 percentage points, btw. Not much (Canseco would still have won under these lines... ignoring the fact that his opponent wouldn't have been there) but every little bit helps.

I wonder where it's coming from. They added a number of Permian counties after all, and just two Rio Grande Valley rural counties, and those cast 5k odd votes together (59% Obama both). And the withdrawal out of Bexar ought to hurt Dems. Must have been doing some pretty clever stuff in El Paso.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on November 23, 2011, 02:47:56 PM
The Bexar and Travis splits are kinda weird, and there is no need for Harris to be cut in 10, but overall I think it's a good map


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on November 23, 2011, 03:03:10 PM
Ciro was never a quality candidate.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 23, 2011, 03:15:33 PM
The Bexar and Travis splits are kinda weird, and there is no need for Harris to be cut in 10, but overall I think it's a good map

It also doesn't seem to be creating any new Hispanic CVAP majority districts. Great map for Veasey and Doggett of course, but neither is Hispanic.

Obviously we will be seeing a 2013 redistricting session.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 23, 2011, 03:30:10 PM
And suddenly it all made sense.

()

See what they did there?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 23, 2011, 04:07:59 PM
The Bexar and Travis splits are kinda weird, and there is no need for Harris to be cut in 10, but overall I think it's a good map

It also doesn't seem to be creating any new Hispanic CVAP majority districts. Great map for Veasey and Doggett of course, but neither is Hispanic.

Obviously we will be seeing a 2013 redistricting session.
Strictly speaking the preclearance case isn't lost yet, right? (Obviously, in a full trial the state would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it neither intended to nor accidentally discriminated against any minority, so, yeah.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 23, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
The Bexar and Travis splits are kinda weird, and there is no need for Harris to be cut in 10, but overall I think it's a good map

It also doesn't seem to be creating any new Hispanic CVAP majority districts. Great map for Veasey and Doggett of course, but neither is Hispanic.

Obviously we will be seeing a 2013 redistricting session.
Strictly speaking the preclearance case isn't lost yet, right? (Obviously, in a full trial the state would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it neither intended to nor accidentally discriminated against any minority, so, yeah.)

No, it's not lost. Strickly speaking of course that won't be settled for a while. If the GOP wins presumably they will ask for these internim maps to be immediately tossed.

We could see another 2006 situation with election day primaries and a runoff.

The TX-23 proposed by the interim plan is certainly much better for Canseco than the 58% Obama DOJ plan talked about a couple days ago. I would hope they leave the entire Valley are alone and redraw DFW and Austin to bust up the 2 districts I mentioned before.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 23, 2011, 05:48:07 PM
At least 10 districts wander into Harris County. I don't understand what they did with TX-2.

The legislature drew TX-36 and included the eastern part of Harris County, which is not particularly heavily populated.  TX-2 was northeastern and northern Harris County, and then came down the western edge of TX-18.

The court instead connected TX-36 to SE Harris County, which makes absolutely no sense.  And then they drew TX-29 a little further east.  into Baytown, and shifted TX-18 northward and added to the NW of arm of TX-18 which is a fairly Hispanic area.   Since TX-18 went west, TX-2 had to swing out even further, and so it gives that strange hook on the western end.

Given that they were supposed to simply add 4 districts and equalize population, they made an awful lot of changes.  They also started from the legislature drawn map, which seems odd since it hasn't been precleared.

I don't see that they really changed TX-23 that much and it took in a more Republican area of El Paso.  It certainly wasn't a big enough change to support a claim that TX-23 couldn't be prceleared.  So that means they changed the San Antonio-Austin district for the sake of change.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: nclib on November 23, 2011, 06:55:22 PM
This is great news.

The Bexar and Travis splits are kinda weird, and there is no need for Harris to be cut in 10, but overall I think it's a good map

It also doesn't seem to be creating any new Hispanic CVAP majority districts. Great map for Veasey and Doggett of course, but neither is Hispanic.

Obviously we will be seeing a 2013 redistricting session.

Even if Obama wins? Or could the GOP pass an equally partisan map in 2013 that would pass the Justice Dept?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 23, 2011, 07:06:56 PM
This is great news.

The Bexar and Travis splits are kinda weird, and there is no need for Harris to be cut in 10, but overall I think it's a good map

It also doesn't seem to be creating any new Hispanic CVAP majority districts. Great map for Veasey and Doggett of course, but neither is Hispanic.

Obviously we will be seeing a 2013 redistricting session.

Even if Obama wins? Or could the GOP pass an equally partisan map in 2013 that would pass the Justice Dept?

Of course, they don't like Doggett and they certainly don't like that self serving Veasey.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: redcommander on November 23, 2011, 07:52:05 PM
Why did Republicans shoot themselves in the foot? They could have gerrymandered the hell out of the state and still complied by VRA.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 23, 2011, 10:26:56 PM
And suddenly it all made sense.

()

See what they did there?

Took a district that had about the right population and transferred territory to a district that was already overpopulated?

BTW, one of the judges is a brother-in-law of Sen.Leticia Van de Putte, who was one of the quorum busters back in 2003.  When the judge left the Texas House, Van de Putte took his seat.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 23, 2011, 11:37:27 PM
*looks up who represents Eagle Pass and Del Rio in the Texas State House*

Pete Gallego for Congress?

Obama share went up by 0.4 percentage points, btw. Not much (Canseco would still have won under these lines... ignoring the fact that his opponent wouldn't have been there) but every little bit helps.

I wonder where it's coming from. They added a number of Permian counties after all, and just two Rio Grande Valley rural counties, and those cast 5k odd votes together (59% Obama both). And the withdrawal out of Bexar ought to hurt Dems. Must have been doing some pretty clever stuff in El Paso.

Indeed, if you look at El Paso they did a solid job plucking out some GOP areas for TX-23 and putting all the Democrats in TX-16. Quite favorable to Canseco.

Then of course you get TX-33 which is just created out of thin air and certainly not based on any existing legislative intent.

Really odd map overall.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on November 23, 2011, 11:41:33 PM
*looks up who represents Eagle Pass and Del Rio in the Texas State House*

Pete Gallego for Congress?

Obama share went up by 0.4 percentage points, btw. Not much (Canseco would still have won under these lines... ignoring the fact that his opponent wouldn't have been there) but every little bit helps.

I wonder where it's coming from. They added a number of Permian counties after all, and just two Rio Grande Valley rural counties, and those cast 5k odd votes together (59% Obama both). And the withdrawal out of Bexar ought to hurt Dems. Must have been doing some pretty clever stuff in El Paso.

Indeed, if you look at El Paso they did a solid job plucking out some GOP areas for TX-23 and putting all the Democrats in TX-16. Quite favorable to Canseco.

Then of course you get TX-33 which is just created out of thin air and certainly not based on any existing legislative intent.

Really odd map overall.

I don't understand why TX-23 has to go all the way to El Paso.  Most of the counties in the trans-Pecos are bluish and TX-23 can get its Hispanics from redder areas elsewhere.  Let the Midland district soak up those voters. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on November 24, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
So, it will basically end up being a 23-13 or 24-12 map.  The real toss-up seat is the Canseco one, but Dems will need to run the right candidate (Gallegos would be the correct choice).  McCaul's seat is too partisanly divided (as well as geographically divided) for Dems to have a chance there, for now.

The obvious mistake the GOP made again was to not draw a Hispanic district in DFW.  That being said, what the court did in Dallas really makes no sense.  I would be surprised in the GOP doesn't realize its mistake this time and correct in 2013.  As for the rest of the map, the protection of Doggett will probably be addressed by the GOP in 2013.  As said many times here, the correct road to go would have been 25-11 (Canseco would always have some issues, so 24-12), but draw a Hispanic district or two looking towards the future.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: dpmapper on November 24, 2011, 08:45:11 PM
So, it will basically end up being a 23-13 or 24-12 map.  The real toss-up seat is the Canseco one, but Dems will need to run the right candidate (Gallegos would be the correct choice).  McCaul's seat is too partisanly divided (as well as geographically divided) for Dems to have a chance there, for now.

The obvious mistake the GOP made again was to not draw a Hispanic district in DFW.  That being said, what the court did in Dallas really makes no sense.  I would be surprised in the GOP doesn't realize its mistake this time and correct in 2013.  As for the rest of the map, the protection of Doggett will probably be addressed by the GOP in 2013.  As said many times here, the correct road to go would have been 25-11 (Canseco would always have some issues, so 24-12), but draw a Hispanic district or two looking towards the future.

They should do 24-9-3, with the 9 being:
* 6 Hispanic seats in El Paso, San Antonio, San Antonio-Austin, Laredo-McAllen, McAllen/Brownsville-Corpus (picking out the worst parts), DFW
* SJL and Al Green in Houston, and the black district in DFW

and the 3 being 3 Hispanic seats that are roughly 49-51% McCain - one for Canseco, one for Farenthold (Harlingen-Corpus), and one in the Houston area (Gene Green's seat). 

How hard would that have been to figure out? 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 26, 2011, 06:07:19 AM
And suddenly it all made sense.

()

See what they did there?

Took a district that had about the right population and transferred territory to a district that was already overpopulated?

Fun fact: Their CD20 has exactly the same racial breakdown as the old one had in 2002.

McCaul's district is not nearly as geographically divided as it used to be, fwiw. It's very much a Travis-Williamson district with pieces all the way into Harris added on now, not really a Travis-to-Harris district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on November 26, 2011, 07:45:46 AM
Lewis, what did you have in mind with your query?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 26, 2011, 11:02:24 AM
So, it will basically end up being a 23-13 or 24-12 map.  The real toss-up seat is the Canseco one, but Dems will need to run the right candidate (Gallegos would be the correct choice).  McCaul's seat is too partisanly divided (as well as geographically divided) for Dems to have a chance there, for now.

The obvious mistake the GOP made again was to not draw a Hispanic district in DFW.  That being said, what the court did in Dallas really makes no sense.  I would be surprised in the GOP doesn't realize its mistake this time and correct in 2013.  As for the rest of the map, the protection of Doggett will probably be addressed by the GOP in 2013.  As said many times here, the correct road to go would have been 25-11 (Canseco would always have some issues, so 24-12), but draw a Hispanic district or two looking towards the future.

The Latino Task Force realized they got hosed in DFW, and proposed changes to make Veasey's district into a Hispanic district in favor of Joe Barton.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 26, 2011, 11:14:43 AM
Lewis, what did you have in mind with your query?
What query?

You mean "see what they did there?" Extending the 23rd into more densely built up parts of San Antonio explains why it became marginally more Democratic overall despite the changes to it elsewhere being helpful to Canseco.
It also means the district remains much more Bexar-y than it looks like at first glance.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Skill and Chance on November 26, 2011, 11:24:27 AM
So, it will basically end up being a 23-13 or 24-12 map.  The real toss-up seat is the Canseco one, but Dems will need to run the right candidate (Gallegos would be the correct choice).  McCaul's seat is too partisanly divided (as well as geographically divided) for Dems to have a chance there, for now.

The obvious mistake the GOP made again was to not draw a Hispanic district in DFW.  That being said, what the court did in Dallas really makes no sense.  I would be surprised in the GOP doesn't realize its mistake this time and correct in 2013.  As for the rest of the map, the protection of Doggett will probably be addressed by the GOP in 2013.  As said many times here, the correct road to go would have been 25-11 (Canseco would always have some issues, so 24-12), but draw a Hispanic district or two looking towards the future.

Only if there is a Republican president.  There won't be any mid-decade redistricting in the South if Obama's DOJ has any say in it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 26, 2011, 01:56:25 PM
Lewis, what did you have in mind with your query?
What query?

You mean "see what they did there?" Extending the 23rd into more densely built up parts of San Antonio explains why it became marginally more Democratic overall despite the changes to it elsewhere being helpful to Canseco.
It also means the district remains much more Bexar-y than it looks like at first glance.
Canseco carried the part of Bexar County that was moved into TX-21 TX-23 by 75% margin.  Canseco's brief says that the area in west central is an Anglo area that is more likely to vote Democratic.

Charlie Gonzalez has announced he isn't running for re-election.  Joaquin Castro says he is going to run in TX-20.  So guess who that leaves for the new district?   C..o R...

Supposedly, the new district is less effective than the district drawn by the legislature.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Mr.Phips on November 26, 2011, 04:22:51 PM
So, it will basically end up being a 23-13 or 24-12 map.  The real toss-up seat is the Canseco one, but Dems will need to run the right candidate (Gallegos would be the correct choice).  McCaul's seat is too partisanly divided (as well as geographically divided) for Dems to have a chance there, for now.

The obvious mistake the GOP made again was to not draw a Hispanic district in DFW.  That being said, what the court did in Dallas really makes no sense.  I would be surprised in the GOP doesn't realize its mistake this time and correct in 2013.  As for the rest of the map, the protection of Doggett will probably be addressed by the GOP in 2013.  As said many times here, the correct road to go would have been 25-11 (Canseco would always have some issues, so 24-12), but draw a Hispanic district or two looking towards the future.

Only if there is a Republican president.  There won't be any mid-decade redistricting in the South if Obama's DOJ has any say in it.

Obama would probably preclear it anyway.  The Obama DOJ had a chance to force new black majority districts in Alabama and South Carolina, but for whatever reason, they chose not to.  Its almost like Obama doesnt care about having a Dem House. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on November 26, 2011, 09:01:01 PM
So, it will basically end up being a 23-13 or 24-12 map.  The real toss-up seat is the Canseco one, but Dems will need to run the right candidate (Gallegos would be the correct choice).  McCaul's seat is too partisanly divided (as well as geographically divided) for Dems to have a chance there, for now.

The obvious mistake the GOP made again was to not draw a Hispanic district in DFW.  That being said, what the court did in Dallas really makes no sense.  I would be surprised in the GOP doesn't realize its mistake this time and correct in 2013.  As for the rest of the map, the protection of Doggett will probably be addressed by the GOP in 2013.  As said many times here, the correct road to go would have been 25-11 (Canseco would always have some issues, so 24-12), but draw a Hispanic district or two looking towards the future.

Only if there is a Republican president.  There won't be any mid-decade redistricting in the South if Obama's DOJ has any say in it.

Obama would probably preclear it anyway.  The Obama DOJ had a chance to force new black majority districts in Alabama and South Carolina, but for whatever reason, they chose not to.  Its almost like Obama doesnt care about having a Dem House. 

One of the things that I think is likely in the back of the mind of any DOJ official right now is the fact that preclearance may not be long for this world.  Go read Northwest Austin Municipal Utility District No. 1 v. Holder, which basically ignores the constitutional arguments, in connection with other recent Section 5 jurisprudence, and you see that five Justices are pretty far down along the road of striking down this section.  A questionable use may be all they need, really.

That being said, the stronger arguments for denying preclearance based in precedence were not in Alabama (really weak) and South Carolina (well, South Carolina would been ok, except Clyburn would have never supported it), but rather in Louisiana and Virginia.  Problem is that the arguments there are still not that strong.

Anyway, the Texas GOP screwed up royally in not creating a Dallas Hispanic CD, and then going to the three-judge panel and not the DOJ.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 26, 2011, 10:44:21 PM
One of the things that I think is likely in the back of the mind of any DOJ official right now is the fact that preclearance may not be long for this world.  Go read Northwest Austin Municipal Utility District No. 1 v. Holder, which basically ignores the constitutional arguments, in connection with other recent Section 5 jurisprudence, and you see that five Justices are pretty far down along the road of striking down this section.  A questionable use may be all they need, really.

That being said, the stronger arguments for denying preclearance based in precedence were not in Alabama (really weak) and South Carolina (well, South Carolina would been ok, except Clyburn would have never supported it), but rather in Louisiana and Virginia.  Problem is that the arguments there are still not that strong.

Anyway, the Texas GOP screwed up royally in not creating a Dallas Hispanic CD, and then going to the three-judge panel and not the DOJ.

Partially yes, and partially no. The DOJ made is clear that they weren't going to give Canseco a fair shake in their remedial plan. He got a much better one through the court.

The 3 judge panel in its briefings specifically noted the difficulty in drawing a 50% HCVAP district there. Plan C216 (the Canseco plan that Jerry Smith wanted implemented) didn't reach it at least, and its the standard prone sniper rifle district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 26, 2011, 11:37:07 PM
One of the things that I think is likely in the back of the mind of any DOJ official right now is the fact that preclearance may not be long for this world.  Go read Northwest Austin Municipal Utility District No. 1 v. Holder, which basically ignores the constitutional arguments, in connection with other recent Section 5 jurisprudence, and you see that five Justices are pretty far down along the road of striking down this section.  A questionable use may be all they need, really.

That being said, the stronger arguments for denying preclearance based in precedence were not in Alabama (really weak) and South Carolina (well, South Carolina would been ok, except Clyburn would have never supported it), but rather in Louisiana and Virginia.  Problem is that the arguments there are still not that strong.

Anyway, the Texas GOP screwed up royally in not creating a Dallas Hispanic CD, and then going to the three-judge panel and not the DOJ.

Partially yes, and partially no. The DOJ made is clear that they weren't going to give Canseco a fair shake in their remedial plan. He got a much better one through the court.

The 3 judge panel in its briefings specifically noted the difficulty in drawing a 50% HCVAP district there. Plan C216 (the Canseco plan that Jerry Smith wanted implemented) didn't reach it at least, and its the standard prone sniper rifle district.
The Canseco and State plans had a higher HCVAP (58.5%) than that drawn by the court.  The court put more blacks into the district and swapped out some more Republican Anglos in NW Bexar for more Democratic Anglos in west central San Antonio.

The legislature increased the HCVAP from that in the current district.  The plaintiffs and USDOJ lied about the the Republicans putting "less mobilized Hispanics" into TX-23.  What they looked out was the number of voters.  If a district is 60% Hispanic and has 150,000 too many people, it is likely to lose 90,000 Hispanics.  Since the district had to gain at the El Paso end, there were even more at the San Antonio end to move into the new San Antonio-Austin district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 27, 2011, 04:54:11 AM
Canseco carried the part of Bexar County that was moved into TX-23 by 75% margin. 
Something's wrong here. "TX-21" instead of "TX-23"?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 27, 2011, 09:34:28 AM

The Canseco and State plans had a higher HCVAP (58.5%) than that drawn by the court.  The court put more blacks into the district and swapped out some more Republican Anglos in NW Bexar for more Democratic Anglos in west central San Antonio.

The legislature increased the HCVAP from that in the current district.
And as the court rightfully pointed out for the umpteenth time, this is not a valid argument, at least not in and of itself...

Ahem. A question and an observation.
Observation: Giving everybody a safe seat, splitting the new districts two-and-two and making sure they're not competitive. You can't give Canseco one, legally, so you at least give him a seat that's no worse than before - though it would have been very very easy to do so - and to treat the 23rd as just another Dem-reserved seat. Or maybe they just read LULAC vs Perry as mandating a marginal seat here. -_- Compensating his accidency Mr Farenthold for the fact that you treat his district as a Dem seat by making sure he lands in one of the new districts, taking the Legislature's plan as a blueprint even though that's far from the ideal place for the new district. But then you can't really put the new district where it logically belongs because of the residences of both Carter and McCaul. So, yeah. Bottomline. This looks like a bipartisan compromise map, not like a court map. It also looks not too unlike a non-greedy Republican map, actually - given population trends around Austin and its proximity to the VAP seats, giving up on Doggett is the sane thing to do, and the court positively packed him in.
And that is why it's such an odd map.
Makes you wonder what could have been without Ortiz' and Rodriguez' defeats...

Oh, and the question. Just for McCaul's and Canseco's precise residence. And ideally Sessions' and Hensarling's too...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 27, 2011, 10:18:05 AM
The Canseco and State plans had a higher HCVAP (58.5%) than that drawn by the court.  The court put more blacks into the district and swapped out some more Republican Anglos in NW Bexar for more Democratic Anglos in west central San Antonio.

The legislature increased the HCVAP from that in the current district.  The plaintiffs and USDOJ lied about the the Republicans putting "less mobilized Hispanics" into TX-23.  What they looked out was the number of voters.  If a district is 60% Hispanic and has 150,000 too many people, it is likely to lose 90,000 Hispanics.  Since the district had to gain at the El Paso end, there were even more at the San Antonio end to move into the new San Antonio-Austin district.

In addition, this right here is pure legislating. Especially considering the last legislature specifically fractured a district on this type.


Because much of the growth that occurred in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex was attributable to minorities, the new district 33 was drawn as a minority coalition opportunity district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 27, 2011, 12:36:33 PM
Canseco carried the part of Bexar County that was moved into TX-23 by 75% margin. 
Something's wrong here. "TX-21" instead of "TX-23"?

Yes.

Judge Orlando Garcia's sister-in-law, Sen. Leticia Van de Putte is going to be at the official kickoff of Castro's congressional campaign in the TX-20.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 27, 2011, 12:55:20 PM
Canseco carried the part of Bexar County that was moved into TX-23 by 75% margin. 
Something's wrong here. "TX-21" instead of "TX-23"?

Yes.

The area is, of course, heavily Anglo and doesn't belong in the district really.
I believe it's "always" (ie, before 2004, and also before 2002) been in it, though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 27, 2011, 11:51:06 PM

The Canseco and State plans had a higher HCVAP (58.5%) than that drawn by the court.  The court put more blacks into the district and swapped out some more Republican Anglos in NW Bexar for more Democratic Anglos in west central San Antonio.

The legislature increased the HCVAP from that in the current district.
And as the court rightfully pointed out for the umpteenth time, this is not a valid argument, at least not in and of itself...

Quote from: District Court
However relied on performance to define this or any other Latino opportunity district.  Rather, the Court has maintained the HCVAP in district 23 above 50% and close to benchmark levels, without decreasing the percent of Spanish-surname voter registration (“SSVR”) and without lowering performance.
The district was overpopulated to begin with.  It had to add population in El Paso County.  The portion in southern Bexar County was needed for the new district.  There was no reason to remove the NW area from the district, and then add territory from TX-20.

See that odd little finger in TX-23 that goes across the top of TX-20.  Guess who lives in the tip of the finger.  So the court moved Canseco's residence barely into TX-23 (he currently lives in TX-21), but moved a good chunk of his constituents into TX-21.

Now looking at the districts on the lege council's redistricting web site.  Use the current district as the base plan and the interim map as the overlay.  TX-20 is only 13,000 from the ideal population, so it really doesn't need much change.

But because TX-23 was pushed in on the west side, TX-20 had to expand.  This was mostly to the north and widening of the eastern arm of the district.  But it also took in a very small are of TX-23 to the northwest.   Guess who lives in that very small area?  Joaquin Castro.

So the court issues its map; Castro talks to Gonzalez; Gonzalez announces his retirement; and Castro announces that he is going to run in the district that the court had barely drawn him into (coincidentally, Castro was introduces at the press conference where he announced his switch by Judge Orlando Garcia's sister-in-law Sen. Leticia Van de Putte

Ahem. A question and an observation.
Observation: Giving everybody a safe seat, splitting the new districts two-and-two and making sure they're not competitive. You can't give Canseco one, legally, so you at least give him a seat that's no worse than before - though it would have been very very easy to do so - and to treat the 23rd as just another Dem-reserved seat. Or maybe they just read LULAC vs Perry as mandating a marginal seat here. -_- Compensating his accidency Mr Farenthold for the fact that you treat his district as a Dem seat by making sure he lands in one of the new districts, taking the Legislature's plan as a blueprint even though that's far from the ideal place for the new district. But then you can't really put the new district where it logically belongs because of the residences of both Carter and McCaul. So, yeah. Bottomline. This looks like a bipartisan compromise map, not like a court map. It also looks not too unlike a non-greedy Republican map, actually - given population trends around Austin and its proximity to the VAP seats, giving up on Doggett is the sane thing to do, and the court positively packed him in.
And that is why it's such an odd map.
Makes you wonder what could have been without Ortiz' and Rodriguez' defeats...

Oh, and the question. Just for McCaul's and Canseco's precise residence. And ideally Sessions' and Hensarling's too...

Canseco is barely, barely on the finger tip of TX-23.  He currently lives in TX-21, and the legislature had drawn a finger tip down from the north (since it had expanded TX-20 northward to make room for the new San Antonio-Austin district).

Find the southeastern corner of TX-32.  See how TX-5 and TX-32 sort of interlock.  Hensarling and Sessions live about a mile apart.  Sessions had been elected from TX-5.  When the district court created TX-32 in 2001, it was an open seat, but Session ran for it even though he lived about a mile east, and Hensarling ran in TX-5.  When the legislature districted in 2003, the boundary was adjusted.  Martin Frost ran campaign ads about Pete Session not living in the district until recently before the election.  Pete Sessions ran campaign ads about Martin Frost not living in the district, and not bothering to update his homestead.

McCaul lives in the hook at the tip of the current TX-10 in the only part of the district that is south of the Colorado River.  TX-21 used to come south of that area into Austin, but that was trimmed back in 2006.  And now it has been pushed back.  The tip of the hook of TX-10 has been cut off, but McCaul lives just north of that.  And the whole boundary of TX-10 has been "squared off" which is really pretty funny since it totally ignores where the river is.  If on Redviewer, zoom in enough to locate the river meanders, and then display the precincts.  Precincts that are on the north side of the river but in a meander to the south are put in TX-21.  You'd have to swim, and there are northward meanders like where McCaul lives that are in TX-10


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 28, 2011, 12:00:52 AM
The Canseco and State plans had a higher HCVAP (58.5%) than that drawn by the court.  The court put more blacks into the district and swapped out some more Republican Anglos in NW Bexar for more Democratic Anglos in west central San Antonio.

The legislature increased the HCVAP from that in the current district.  The plaintiffs and USDOJ lied about the the Republicans putting "less mobilized Hispanics" into TX-23.  What they looked out was the number of voters.  If a district is 60% Hispanic and has 150,000 too many people, it is likely to lose 90,000 Hispanics.  Since the district had to gain at the El Paso end, there were even more at the San Antonio end to move into the new San Antonio-Austin district.

In addition, this right here is pure legislating. Especially considering the last legislature specifically fractured a district on this type.


Because much of the growth that occurred in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex was attributable to minorities, the new district 33 was drawn as a minority coalition opportunity district.
56% of the growth in Collin, Denton, and Rockwall was minorities.  That is where the new district should have been placed.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 28, 2011, 12:24:57 AM
Canseco carried the part of Bexar County that was moved into TX-23 by 75% margin. 
Something's wrong here. "TX-21" instead of "TX-23"?

Yes.

The area is, of course, heavily Anglo and doesn't belong in the district really.
I believe it's "always" (ie, before 2004, and also before 2002) been in it, though.


It was moved into the district in 1991 by Martin Frost and Ann Richards.  The southern part of Bexar County was placed in the new TX-28.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 28, 2011, 02:22:44 PM
56% of the growth in Collin, Denton, and Rockwall was minorities.  That is where the new district should have been placed.
Yeah, going purely by least transfer the new DFW district needs to go on the eastern side. Same with the new Southeast Texas district.
But then again, the new Central Texas Anglo district would logically be built around Williamson and North Travis... oops.


It was moved into the district in 1991 by Martin Frost and Ann Richards.  The southern part of Bexar County was placed in the new TX-28.
So "always" in the sense of "in all maps that still influence the current map of the area". :)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 28, 2011, 02:29:40 PM
See that odd little finger in TX-23 that goes across the top of TX-20.  Guess who lives in the tip of the finger.  So the court moved Canseco's residence barely into TX-23 (he currently lives in TX-21), but moved a good chunk of his constituents into TX-21.

Now looking at the districts on the lege council's redistricting web site.  Use the current district as the base plan and the interim map as the overlay.  TX-20 is only 13,000 from the ideal population, so it really doesn't need much change.

But because TX-23 was pushed in on the west side, TX-20 had to expand.  This was mostly to the north and widening of the eastern arm of the district.  But it also took in a very small are of TX-23 to the northwest.   Guess who lives in that very small area?  Joaquin Castro.

So the court issues its map; Castro talks to Gonzalez; Gonzalez announces his retirement; and Castro announces that he is going to run in the district that the court had barely drawn him into
The fix was in, the fix was in. Bipartisan gerry basically,as I said. Any public word previously that Gonzalez was thinking about retiring - I only know that none reached me.
The expansion of TX-20 do a reasonably good job of removing the last minority areas from Lamar Smith's district, of course. (Not that he needs it or anything, but, you know.)

The bizarre boundary of TX-10 is of course in part because it's a leftover from the 2004 carveup of Austin - the part that didn't get changed in 2006. Now that I think of it... McCaul's residence may have had something to do with that...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on November 28, 2011, 02:54:31 PM
56% of the growth in Collin, Denton, and Rockwall was minorities.  That is where the new district should have been placed.
Yeah, going purely by least transfer the new DFW district needs to go on the eastern side. Same with the new Southeast Texas district.
But then again, the new Central Texas Anglo district would logically be built around Williamson and North Travis... oops.


It was moved into the district in 1991 by Martin Frost and Ann Richards.  The southern part of Bexar County was placed in the new TX-28.
So "always" in the sense of "in all maps that still influence the current map of the area". :)

I actually drew that exactly in my least change map. It ends up being highly desirable in Dallas and highly undesirable in Austin; Austin obviously needs to either be in 1 district or 5. 2 is highly undesirable and yields 2 Dem districts.

The new Bexar district goes south, though, and becomes a Republican district, basically collecting all the excess in Doggett's district and the 3 south Texas districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 28, 2011, 03:01:23 PM
Canseco is barely, barely on the finger tip of TX-23.  He currently lives in TX-21, and the legislature had drawn a finger tip down from the north (since it had expanded TX-20 northward to make room for the new San Antonio-Austin district).
Fun fact: They added three precincts there (in the court map, not sure how different the lege map was in this area).
SW to NE:
3113, 54% Hispanic, 33% White, 64% Obama
3112, 52% Hispanic, 38% White, 55% Obama
3115, 66% White, 28% Hispanic, 65% McCain

Railroad tracks between 3115 (and one other precinct that stayed in TX-23, and most of the area shifted out) and 3112 (and the remainder of TX-23, well its Bexar portion at any rate).
Somehow I'd be surprised to hear that 3115 is not Canseco's home precinct. :D

Quote
Find the southeastern corner of TX-32.  See how TX-5 and TX-32 sort of interlock.  Hensarling and Sessions live about a mile apart.  
By White Rock Lake?

My issue was mostly. I have a map that basically went through three steps: Step 1, just draw the new districts basically where they "ought" to go, except I drew the DFW one as a W Denver County/Arlington Hispanic opportunity seat, and eliminated some bizarre county splits. Step 2, amend some features that bug me about map 1, mostly taken over from before but some new. I forgot to save this step. Step 3, rectify that map to at least put everybody in their home district. This took some major redrawings compared to Step 2, and is as yet in progress as I needed this info. (I also don't know where Doggett lives, but as long as there is a Travis-based Anglo-winnable Democratic district, he'll just move and be fine, so no bother.) Many thanks!

McCaul lives in the hook at the tip of the current TX-10 in the only part of the district that is south of the Colorado River.
[/quote]Ugh. That makes things hard. Only one precinct btw (seeing as they cut back the other one.) Quite the Republican enclave, btw, what's up with that?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 28, 2011, 03:04:59 PM
56% of the growth in Collin, Denton, and Rockwall was minorities.  That is where the new district should have been placed.
Yeah, going purely by least transfer the new DFW district needs to go on the eastern side. Same with the new Southeast Texas district.
But then again, the new Central Texas Anglo district would logically be built around Williamson and North Travis... oops.


It was moved into the district in 1991 by Martin Frost and Ann Richards.  The southern part of Bexar County was placed in the new TX-28.
So "always" in the sense of "in all maps that still influence the current map of the area". :)

I actually drew that exactly in my least change map. It ends up being highly desirable in Dallas and highly undesirable in Austin; Austin obviously needs to either be in 1 district or 5. 2 is highly undesirable and yields 2 Dem districts.
And that's only half of it... you're pitting two Republican incumbents against each other in a Democratic district.

Yeah, I rigged it to ensure the new "southern" district is Hispanic. This led to Doggett's rural parts being split off and going into the "new" Central Texas district, which turned out highly marginal rather than clearly Dem as a result.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 28, 2011, 03:25:57 PM
I just checked what the maximum Dempack district in Austin is... 75%. I'm impressed. It's Hispanic plurality, btw (but not on VAP... presumably Anglo majority CVAP.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on November 28, 2011, 07:28:38 PM
Canseco is barely, barely on the finger tip of TX-23.  He currently lives in TX-21, and the legislature had drawn a finger tip down from the north (since it had expanded TX-20 northward to make room for the new San Antonio-Austin district).
Fun fact: They added three precincts there (in the court map, not sure how different the lege map was in this area).
SW to NE:
3113, 54% Hispanic, 33% White, 64% Obama
3112, 52% Hispanic, 38% White, 55% Obama
3115, 66% White, 28% Hispanic, 65% McCain

Railroad tracks between 3115 (and one other precinct that stayed in TX-23, and most of the area shifted out) and 3112 (and the remainder of TX-23, well its Bexar portion at any rate).
Somehow I'd be surprised to hear that 3115 is not Canseco's home precinct. :D
3112.  I said barely.  Like on the southern edge.

The legislature would have shifted 3070, 3115, and the eastern part of 3112.  The difference is that the legislature would have kept the current district on the NW side of Huebner Road (SW to NE).  The court only kept the long corridor to reach Canseco's house, while dismantling the Bexar County portion of a VRA district.

Quote
Quote
Find the southeastern corner of TX-32.  See how TX-5 and TX-32 sort of interlock.  Hensarling and Sessions live about a mile apart.  
By White Rock Lake?
By the shore of gitche gumee.  I don't think right on the shore, but both are pretty close, so the north/south split of the two precincts is needed.

Quote
My issue was mostly. I have a map that basically went through three steps: Step 1, just draw the new districts basically where they "ought" to go, except I drew the DFW one as a W Denver County/Arlington Hispanic opportunity seat, and eliminated some bizarre county splits.
You're not supposed to legislate.  I assume you mean Dallas County, and not Denver City or Denver Harbor, Texas.  Arlington deserve a district just as much as lesser cities like Pittsburgh or St.Louis or Buffalo or Cincinnati.  Arlington is almost as populous as Mesa and Colorado Springs.

The new district belongs in Denton and Collin counties.

Move the Cooke piece of TX-26 to TX-13

Move 25K from TX-1 to TX-4 (Cass (remnant), Marion, Upshur (part)
Move 27K from TX-5 to TX-4 (you can swap Rains and Wood, and get rid of that near point contiguity).

Create the new district from:

TX-4 200K (Collin) keeping the eastern part above Rockwall.
TX-3 144K (Collin) Allen and McKinney (Johnson lives in Plano)
TX-26 190K (Denton) If you keep out of the city of Denton, Burgess is OK.
TX-24 43K (Denton)
TX-12 121K (Wise) and (Tarrant, Parker)

TX-32 gets replenished from:

TX-30 8K
TX-24 50K

TX-32 could also get some from TX-3 instead of TX-24.  It just switches the contributions from TX-3 and TX-24 into the new district.

Quote
Step 2, amend some features that bug me about map 1, mostly taken over from before but some new. I forgot to save this step. Step 3, rectify that map to at least put everybody in their home district. This took some major redrawings compared to Step 2, and is as yet in progress as I needed this info. (I also don't know where Doggett lives, but as long as there is a Travis-based Anglo-winnable Democratic district, he'll just move and be fine, so no bother.)
Doggett said he lives 4 blocks from TX-35 in the legislature plan.  They left him in TX-25.  So somewhere in that final eastward finger into central Austin.

Quote
Quote
McCaul lives in the hook at the tip of the current TX-10 in the only part of the district that is south of the Colorado River.
Ugh. That makes things hard. Only one precinct btw (seeing as they cut back the other one.) Quite the Republican enclave, btw, what's up with that?
Westlake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Austin

Click on the picture.

The Lower Colorado River Authority (LCRA) was a Depression era project to build flood control and hydroelectric projects on the Colorado River.  Congressman LBJ was probably involved.

The two big dams are Lake Travis (in the western part of the county) and Lake Buchanan which is on the Burnet-Llano border.

Lake Austin is just west of the city of Austin proper, and Town Lake (Lady Bird Lake) is just south of the Capitol, UT, and downtown.  I think they were really more flood control.  If you look on the map below, just east of downtown you can see the bluffs that define the floodplain.  The Black (and now Hispanic) areas of Austin are to the east.

Austin is just east of the Balcones Escarpment that defines the start of the Hill Country, so the city proper is on the flatlands.  Remember that Austin has grown a lot.  At the time the dams were built, it would be more on par with Waco.

At one time when the government was building dams, they would just buy/condemn the land where the water is.  And so the land along the shore line would be private land.  If the lake is somewhat remote, people would build lake houses (equivalent to beach house) which could be used on weekends, and some people might retire to, or if they have a job like fireman or airline pilot could commute from.

But in this case, the flood control made it possible to develop into a rather exclusive close-in suburb.   It happens to have its own school district (Eames ISD, though the high school is Austin Westlake).   During the school funding disputes it would be cited as an example of a school district that money for extravagance vs its poorer city schools (see Highland Park vs. Dallas; and Alamo Heights vs San Antonio and Edgewood).  The comparable areas in Houston don't have a separate school district, so the students have to go to private schools.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=30.314209,-97.766819&spn=0.102844,0.209255&t=p&z=13&vpsrc=6


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on November 29, 2011, 12:56:52 PM
I assume you mean Dallas County, and not Denver City or Denver Harbor, Texas.
Quite.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 07, 2011, 02:44:08 PM
So I abandoned the map talked about here and drew two different ones.

One, maximizing the number of safely Democratic minority districts (14 - 7 in the South and up to Austin, 4 in Houston, 2 in Dallas and 1 in Tarrant) and drawing the remainder fairly (which results in only one further Democratic district in Austin, of course).
The other, based on that but going back to something closer the status quo in minority districts, in order to create an 18-18 map that ought to stand in court. 18-18 in presidential terms that is, and given trends in the places where the most marginal districts are, in terms of representation by the end of the decade. One district certainly, and possibly several others, is still good for a few years of Republican congressional victories.



21-15 Plan

()

Inserts

()

()

()

and cause it's snipped from the bottom of the map

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 07, 2011, 03:27:16 PM
1 rural/exurban northwest. Open (Hall is from Rockwall) 75-12-11 (white, hispanic, black. Total. VAP in brackets where relevant.), 70.9% McCain2 Gohmert's district basically; loses Lufkin though. 65-15-17, 69.8% McCain
3 bit of an oddball remainder of East Texas district, open. 70-13-15. 70.0% McCain
4 Montgomery with Bryan. Brady, Flores. 67-22-6, 73.3% McCain
5 far northern Harris Republican remnants, with part of Liberty. Poe, I think - he lives in Humble, which is diversifying rapidly and split between districts, so it's possible I drew him into the Black district. 59-22-11, 70.0% McCain
6 Beaumont, Galveston, SE Harris County. Open. 54-21-19, 58.0% McCain
7 East Harris Hispanics. Gene Green? (No idea what part of his district he is from and which new district he would run for) 19-67-11 (23-62-11), 55.9% Obama
8 Harris Black sink. Connected through the north now, which actually makes sense to do (or would if it didn't force the Hispanic bisection). Jackson-Lee I suppose. 14-34-47 (16-30-48). 81.4% Obama
9 West Harris Hispanics (light blue). See 7. 20-63-10 (24-58-11), 56.0% Obama
10 West Harris Whites (hot pink). Culberson(?) 51-27-11, 59.9% McCain
11 Harris/Fort Bend coalition district. Al Green. 23-30-30-15 Asian (26-27-30-16). 64.7% Obama
12 Fort Bend/Brazoria/West Galveston. Paul, Olsen (unless his home is in the asian sections of Sugarland, which are mostly removed into the 11th). 54-24-11, 65.8% McCain
13 Rural district (with furthest ends of several metros) centered around Victoria. Open. 56-34-8, 65.7% McCain
14 An I-57 district. Open, thanks to Ortiz' and Ciro's defeats who would I think have been paired here. 23-71 (27-68), 56.2% Obama
15 Cameron to White sections of Corpus (proud of that gerry!) Farenthold I presume, not that he'd want it. 15-82 (19-79), 60.6% Obama
16 A purely Rio Grande Valley district for Hinojosa. Any fairish map will have one. 8-91 (10-88), 69.5% Obama
17 Trans-Pecos paired with Laredo. Makes more sense than with San Antonio imo. Cuellar. 12-86 (14-84), 63.0% Obama
18 El Paso. Reyes. 15-80 (17-78), 65.4% Obama
19 Central San Antonio. Moved northwest a little. Rodriguez (presumably), Canseco (heh). Castro I think as well, might be in the 21st. 21-70-5, 61.0% Obama
20 East San Antonio, San Marcos, East Austin. Wide open. 27-56-14 (32-50-14, barely over). 66.6% Obama
21 White parts of Bexar, with adjoining areas. Smith. 62-29, 64.7% McCain
22 Travis County White district. Doggett, McCaul. 64-21-6, 61.2% Obama
23 Williamson and Bell. Carter. 57-23-12, 55.2% McCain
24 Rural district with Waco as population centre. Open (Flores represents a lot of it and is drawn into Brady's district, so I guess he might run here) 68-20-9, 69.1% McCain
25 Parker, West and North Tarrant. Not sure if Granger lives in it (possibly not), but she ought to run here. 74-16, 70.1% McCain
26 Southeast Tarrant, Ellis, Johnson. Barton. 60-20-13. 62.5% McCain
27 Tarrant County coalition district. Open(?). We know who wants it, not as Black as what the court drew him though since this version is more Fort Worth based. 33-41-21 (39-35-21). 59.3% Obama
28 Denton County. Burgess. 65-18-8. 63.0% McCain
29 North Dallas County (and parts of Tarrant). Chock full with Republican congressmen, and it's not even all that Republican: Marchant, Sessions, Hensarling. 59-21-10. 56.7% McCain.
30 Hispanic Dallas County district. Open. 20-63-13 (25-57-14). 63.4% Obama.
31 Black Dallas County district. Eddie Bernice. 21-32-45 (25-28-45). 75.5% Obama
32 Northeast Dallas County and outwards. Bit unfortunate shape as I avoided splitting Plano. Hall. Might get primaried, I suppose. 54-24-12, 60.6% McCain
33 Plano with Grayson County. Sam Johnson. 66-14-8, 63.7% McCain
34 Amarillo, Wichita Falls. Thornberry. 67-24-5, 77.5% McCain
35 Lubbock, Abilene. Neugebauer. 59-32-6, 72.1% McCain
36 Permian, San Angelo, Hill Country. Conaway. 57-38, 75.7% McCain


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 07, 2011, 03:33:56 PM
And now for the gerrymander.

()

Inserts

()

()

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 07, 2011, 04:10:28 PM
1, 2, 3 not changed
4 Had to snip part of Montgomery to keep 5 contiguous. 67-21-7, 73.3% McCain
5 Pretty unlikely that Poe still lives in it, pretty unlikely that he wouldn't just move. 60-23-10, 70.2% McCain
6 Heh. Crawling as it is, there's a definite oil port CoI vibe to it. Well, except for the Houston proper bit. That's a gerrymander. Open coalition district, would elect a white though. 33-43-20 (37-38-20), 52.7% Obama
7 Yeah, I eliminated the district entirely, redrew it somewhere else, and was to lazy to renumber. All of Fort Bend County, with likeliest parts of Brazoria and Harris to improve Democratic performance. Olsen, and if he's careful he'll be reelected for the time being. 34-24-24-16 Asian (37-22-23-17), 51.2% Obama
8 Still the Houston Black sink. Now in Y shape, Jackson-Lee presumably. 21-31-42 (24-27-42), 79.2% Obama
9 Gene Green district. Loses Baytown because I need that for the 6th, gains more mixed areas (with Blacks and Whites) to the north. 14-66-18 (17-62-18), 65.8% Obama
10 West Harris. Somehow managed to make this much less White while improving its Republican performance. 46-30-12-10 Asian (VAP majority still though). 62.1% McCain
11 Shifted north, Whiter, much more Hispanic and a lot less Black than before. Al Green would never have captured this in the first place, not sure how he'd fare in it. 25-47-16-11 Asian (29-43-16-12), 54.5% Obama.
12 Brazoria, Suburban Galveston County. Paul. 61-26-7, 68.6% McCain
13 Loses marginal and Demifying Bastrop, shifts north as a result. 57-33-9, 66.8% McCain
14 to 18 not changed
19 marginal amendments forced by adherence to county boundaries for 21. Doesn't affect residences I believe. 70-21-5 (66-25-6), 61.0% Obama.
20 ditto. 27-55-14 (33-50-14, just under now. Presumably fixable if considered an issue.) Still 66.6% Obama.
21 loses Hays portion, regains Kerrville etc. Smith. 62-29, 66.7% McCain
22 Travis dominated district, with Killeen upended on it. Doggett, McCaul. 65-19-8, 56.6% Obama.
23 Most of Williamson, northeast Travis, Bastrop. Carter. Might be able to hold on, can't like trends though. 57-26-8, 53.0% Obama
24 Picks up Temple and stuff. Still open. 66-20-10, 67.2% McCain
25 Loses the Southwestern part of Tarrant and a few precincts around Fort Worth, gains in the north of the county. Granger? 76-15. 70.8% McCain.
26 Frees a few Obamaish precincts in Arlington. Picks up in southwest Tarrant. Barton. 61-20-13, 63.0% McCain
27 Even more specifically a Fort Worth district now. Open(?) 39-37-19 (45-32-19). 54.9% Obama
28 Denton County, now taking in Coppell instead of parts in Tarrant. Burgess, Marchant (unless he lives in one of those two precincts cut for population balance). 65-18-8. 62.5% McCain (so marginally less packed as a result)
29 North Dallas (North Central Dallas County). Sessions, Hensarling. Would it fall straight away? 41-39-15 (46-34-15). 53.4% Obama.
30 Middle suburbs, West Dallas. Reminds me of Frost's old district. Open, and safe D. 27-50-14 (32-45-14). 56.1% Obama.
31 Still the Eddie Bernice district. 23-30-44 (27-25-44), 73.0% Obama
32 Lost in the south, gained in the west. Hall. 55-25-10, 61.3% McCain.
33-35 not changed
36 Changes in the Hill Country. 57-37, 76.2% McCain


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Napoleon on December 09, 2011, 11:20:28 AM
Sessions probably beats a Hispanic Dem.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on December 09, 2011, 12:13:44 PM
Yeah, I also noticed that I may have drawn Al Green into the western Hispanic district in the first map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 07:43:01 PM
Scalia to the rescue!

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=8461770

The Supreme Court has blocked the use of Texas state legislative and congressional district maps that were drawn by federal judges to boost minorities' voting power.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Skill and Chance on December 09, 2011, 07:51:07 PM
Scalia to the rescue!

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=8461770

The Supreme Court has blocked the use of Texas state legislative and congressional district maps that were drawn by federal judges to boost minorities' voting power.

It was referred to the full Court with no dissents... interesting.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 09, 2011, 08:12:21 PM
Scalia to the rescue!

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=8461770

The Supreme Court has blocked the use of Texas state legislative and congressional district maps that were drawn by federal judges to boost minorities' voting power.

 Supreme Court Stays Court Drawn Maps (http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/120911zr.pdf)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on December 09, 2011, 08:23:16 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on December 09, 2011, 08:28:39 PM
And the double standard continues, unbelievable.

I hope it is realized that the court could just let the court map go through, since the GOP map was illegal and cannot stand.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 08:29:36 PM
And the double standard continues, unbelievable.

I hope it is realized that the court could just let the court map go through, since the GOP map was illegal and cannot stand.

What double standard?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 08:30:14 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)

The Scalia/Thomas position is that the Voting Rights Act cannot challenge a reapportionment plan.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on December 09, 2011, 08:31:29 PM

The one about courts intervening in redistricting. When it doesn't help Republicans, it's unconstitutional and warrants impeachment, but if it does, it's all well and good.

You can't have it both ways, it's either unconstitutional or it isn't.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Skill and Chance on December 09, 2011, 08:32:33 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)

The Scalia/Thomas position is that the Voting Rights Act cannot challenge a reapportionment plan.

So if that went through, everything from at large districts to multi-member districts would be legal again?  Talk about chaos...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 08:34:49 PM

The one about courts intervening in redistricting. When it doesn't help Republicans, it's unconstitutional and warrants impeachment, but if it does, it's all well and good.

You can't have it both ways, it's either unconstitutional or it isn't.

The courts already intervened by drawing a map out of loin cloth.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 08:37:06 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)

The Scalia/Thomas position is that the Voting Rights Act cannot challenge a reapportionment plan.

So if that went through, everything from at large districts to multi-member districts would be legal again?  Talk about chaos...

One man one vote district rules would apply. 1967 congressional law still bars multi-member districts.

So it would actually be quite a bit simpler.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 09, 2011, 08:38:15 PM
And the double standard continues, unbelievable.

I hope it is realized that the court could just let the court map go through, since the GOP map was illegal and cannot stand.

The US Constitution says that the legislature draws the maps.  PERIOD.  Not some judges from the central government.  In extreme cases they can follow the legislative intent and match the existing (2000) maps as close as possible.  They didn't do that.  The maps from the legislature and Judge Smith were much closer to the current maps.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 09, 2011, 08:42:00 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)

The Scalia/Thomas position is that the Voting Rights Act cannot challenge a reapportionment plan.

So if that went through, everything from at large districts to multi-member districts would be legal again?  Talk about chaos...

One man one vote district rules would apply. 1967 congressional law still bars multi-member districts.

So it would actually be quite a bit simpler.
The Supreme Court says that is not entirely true since Congress did not repeal existing statutes regarding transitions after censuses.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Skill and Chance on December 09, 2011, 08:43:51 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)

The Scalia/Thomas position is that the Voting Rights Act cannot challenge a reapportionment plan.

So if that went through, everything from at large districts to multi-member districts would be legal again?  Talk about chaos...

One man one vote district rules would apply. 1967 congressional law still bars multi-member districts.

So it would actually be quite a bit simpler.

But electing representatives at-large would be legal (and devastating from a partisan standpoint in TX, NY, IL, IN, MD, etc.), because that was specifically a VRA Supreme Court Case.  An at large IL in 2012 would probably elect 18 Democrats, and  TX and GA could go 90-100% GOP


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 08:57:50 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)

The Scalia/Thomas position is that the Voting Rights Act cannot challenge a reapportionment plan.

So if that went through, everything from at large districts to multi-member districts would be legal again?  Talk about chaos...

One man one vote district rules would apply. 1967 congressional law still bars multi-member districts.

So it would actually be quite a bit simpler.
The Supreme Court says that is not entirely true since Congress did not repeal existing statutes regarding transitions after censuses.

Ah, interesting. Although I suspect the current 435 members of Congress would be very quick to repeal such to protect themselves.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on December 09, 2011, 08:58:36 PM

The courts already intervened by drawing a map out of loin cloth.

Whatever that means.

And the double standard continues, unbelievable.

I hope it is realized that the court could just let the court map go through, since the GOP map was illegal and cannot stand.

The US Constitution says that the legislature draws the maps.  PERIOD.  Not some judges from the central government.  In extreme cases they can follow the legislative intent and match the existing (2000) maps as close as possible.  They didn't do that.  The maps from the legislature and Judge Smith were much closer to the current maps.

But, if the maps drawn violate the law, the court must step in. If the legislature could do anything they wanted with the maps, there would be more tricks with deviations like there were in the past to stifle opposition strength.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 09:03:58 PM

The courts already intervened by drawing a map out of loin cloth.

Whatever that means.

And the double standard continues, unbelievable.

I hope it is realized that the court could just let the court map go through, since the GOP map was illegal and cannot stand.

The US Constitution says that the legislature draws the maps.  PERIOD.  Not some judges from the central government.  In extreme cases they can follow the legislative intent and match the existing (2000) maps as close as possible.  They didn't do that.  The maps from the legislature and Judge Smith were much closer to the current maps.

But, if the maps drawn violate the law, the court must step in. If the legislature could do anything they wanted with the maps, there would be more tricks with deviations like there were in the past to stifle opposition strength.


It was never established by any court that the maps drawn violate the law. Hence:


The courts already intervened by drawing a map out of loin cloth.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Skill and Chance on December 09, 2011, 09:07:51 PM
I wonder if this portends that SCOTUS is going to chop back on the VRA (as interpreted by prior courts), something that would not surprise me at all. The VRA in my opinion is out of control. Scalia must have enjoyed issuing that stay. :)

The Scalia/Thomas position is that the Voting Rights Act cannot challenge a reapportionment plan.

So if that went through, everything from at large districts to multi-member districts would be legal again?  Talk about chaos...

One man one vote district rules would apply. 1967 congressional law still bars multi-member districts.

So it would actually be quite a bit simpler.
The Supreme Court says that is not entirely true since Congress did not repeal existing statutes regarding transitions after censuses.

Ah, interesting. Although I suspect the current 435 members of Congress would be very quick to repeal such to protect themselves.

What does that mean?  That states wouldn't formally have to redistrict every 10 years anymore?  Isn't that in Baker v. Carr and unrelated to VRA?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 09:17:11 PM
What does that mean?  That states wouldn't formally have to redistrict every 10 years anymore?  Isn't that in Baker v. Carr and unrelated to VRA?

Well, it's just a guess based on what you and jimtrex said. In any sort of at large free for all, plenty of members of Congress would be at risk. Naturally, then, they would have interest in maintaining single member districts as that's their best chance of being elected.

If the 1967 law is not enough to require single member districts, a hypothetical new law could perhaps rectify that.

Redistricting is of course related to Baker v Carr and one man one vote violations. But by definition, at large districts comply as all districts are the same size.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Skill and Chance on December 09, 2011, 09:30:31 PM
What does that mean?  That states wouldn't formally have to redistrict every 10 years anymore?  Isn't that in Baker v. Carr and unrelated to VRA?

Well, it's just a guess based on what you and jimtrex said. In any sort of at large free for all, plenty of members of Congress would be at risk. Naturally, then, they would have interest in maintaining single member districts as that's their best chance of being elected.

If the 1967 law is not enough to require single member districts, a hypothetical new law could perhaps rectify that.

Redistricting is of course related to Baker v Carr and one man one vote violations. But by definition, at large districts comply as all districts are the same size.

Just imagine the amount of money that would be spent on a ballot referendum to create an at large CA, if such a thing were possible...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 09, 2011, 10:26:28 PM

The courts already intervened by drawing a map out of loin cloth.

Whatever that means.

And the double standard continues, unbelievable.

I hope it is realized that the court could just let the court map go through, since the GOP map was illegal and cannot stand.

The US Constitution says that the legislature draws the maps.  PERIOD.  Not some judges from the central government.  In extreme cases they can follow the legislative intent and match the existing (2000) maps as close as possible.  They didn't do that.  The maps from the legislature and Judge Smith were much closer to the current maps.

But, if the maps drawn violate the law, the court must step in. If the legislature could do anything they wanted with the maps, there would be more tricks with deviations like there were in the past to stifle opposition strength.
There has been no court ruling on the maps drawn by the legislature.  The State of Texas is seeking to preclear the maps.  The USDOJ is stalling (they wanted the interim maps drawn by out-of-control district court to become the baseline).

1. Texas files for preclearance with DC court, that they have not retrogressed from 2000 maps.
2. DC court dawdles along and still has not set a trial date.
3. DC court tells district court to draw "interim plan"
4. District court violates US and Texas constitutions with interim plan, and since it is a federal court it doesn't need preclearance.
5. USDOJ argues that the interim plan is the benchmark, and not simply an interim plan and so the preclearance trial should be delayed to allow them to delay further.

If the legislature had not drawn any map, like happened in 2001, the federal court could only make minimum changes to bring map into compliance into line with OMOV.

If the DC court had ruled on preclearance, any remedial plan would only have had an impact on certain districts.  They wouldn't have license to redraw districts all over the State.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on December 09, 2011, 11:13:18 PM
Well, we'll see what the court says and if they don't rule in the Republicans favor, then there probably isn't much recourse left. This never would have happened if the Republicans hadn't played fast and loose with the VRA in parts of the state.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on December 09, 2011, 11:26:48 PM
Well, we'll see what the court says and if they don't rule in the Republicans favor, then there probably isn't much recourse left. This never would have happened if the Republicans hadn't played fast and loose with the VRA in parts of the state.

Congratulations on making another baseless statement. Cheers!


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on December 09, 2011, 11:36:29 PM
Very unusual ruling, as the Court basically gave the Texas lawyers the more extreme remedy that they had asked for, i.e. take on the cases and issue a prompt ruling, as opposed to merely issuing a stay.

It should also be noted that the Court did not change the filing deadlines.  Since the main filing deadline occurs before the case will be heard, meaning that where exactly to file is completely unknown, it suggests to me that the most likely ruling is that the Court will throw out the San Antonio court's maps, present a ruling on the main issue (discussed below), tell the Court to come up with maps the meet the new standards and change the filing dates.  But we shall see.

The main issue, btw, will likely relate to the issue raised in the dissent to the San Antonio court's maps, namely the Court's decision in the 1982 case of Upham v. Seamon, that strictly limits the power of a federal court to craft its own interim redistricting plan that deviates greatly from one drafted by a state legislature.  It appears that the Court took this argument seriously.  Basically, unless something more surprising happens, the Court will only be ruling on the validity of the San Antonio court’s decision to draw up interim maps of its own.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 10, 2011, 04:04:49 AM
Quote
One man one vote district rules would apply. 1967 congressional law still bars multi-member districts.

So it would actually be quite a bit simpler.
The Supreme Court says that is not entirely true since Congress did not repeal existing statutes regarding transitions after censuses.

Ah, interesting. Although I suspect the current 435 members of Congress would be very quick to repeal such to protect themselves.
2 U.S.C. § 2c   is the provision that requires election from districts, and was passed in 1967.  The exception was to permit Hawaii and New Mexico to elect at large for one last time in 1968.  Hawaii did so, New Mexico districted before 1968.  Because, of this special transition it was assumed that 2 U.S.C. § 2a(c) had implicitly been repealed.

2a(c) has been around since 1941, and there were similar versions before then.  It provides a number of transitional arrangements until a state got around to redistricting.  The basic concept is that if a state gains representatives the new representatives may be elected at large; and if they lose representatives, all should be elected at large.

Wesberry v Sanders was strictly limited to district elections.  The SCOTUS reasoned that if representatives are chosen by the People of a State, and they are elected by districts, that the electoral authority must be shared out equally.  If they are elected at large, then they are obvious chosen by the People.   If you read Justice Harlan's dissent he calculates the number of representatives whose election might be considered legitimate, and specifically includes at large representatives.

After Wesberry there were lawsuits in practically every state that had more than two representatives, and the federal courts and the states struggled with how equal, equal was, and whether the courts could even craft districts.  There were 6 federal courts that were about to order at large elections for some fairly large States (Texas was one).  Texas traditionally had elected its new representatives at large for a few years before bothering to add some districts, but this would have meant all 26(?) representatives at large.

So Congress was pressed to action.  Originally, they had considered more extensive changes, including the amount of deviation that was allowed.  Since Congress was the one who mandated districts, they could presumably mandate the standards for drawing them.  Congress could even draw the districts itself if it chose to.  The legislation would have repealed the existing transitional 2a(c) provisions.  But the Congress being the Congress did what Congress usually does, nothing.  Finally, they stuck 2c into a totally unrelated bill, about the citizenship status of a single person, with no record votes.  You will come across conspiracy theories that this was a sneaky outlawing of proportional representation.

But within weeks of 2c, all the federal courts backed off of ordering at-large elections, and everyone though 2a(c) had been effectively voided.  Until 2003 and Branch v. Smith.

Mississippi lost its 5th representative and the legislature was unable to redistrict.  Blacks wanted to maintain their district, and influence in a second.  Whites could decide on whose district to carve up.

The Branch party filed in Mississippi chancery court (Branch was the head of the Mississippi NAACP).  The Smith party filed in federal court (Smith was a former mayor of Meridian or some such, so there is some political and racial alignment of the parties, but I'm not sure if Smith=Republican and Branch=Democrat, is totally valid).

The chancery court drew a map (there is no explicit authority in Mississippi for judicial intervention in redistricting, so they were acting under some general judicial authority).  The state court plan was going under preclearance (maps drawn by state courts are not exempt from Section 5, because it says before a State or jurisdiction puts into effect a new procedure it has to be precleared.  It is OK for a legislature to draw a plan.  It is not OK to use the plan for an election without preclearance.  And then the USDOJ decided that the actual drawing of the map by the chancery court had to be precleared - that this was a change in the baseline procedure of the legislature drawing the map.  The Mississippi Supreme Court made a decision that it was OK for the chancery court to draw the map, but never issued a formal opinion, and the state stopped seeking preclearance.

The federal court then ruled that (1) the state court did not have authority to draw a map, that under the Constitution, only the legislature (subject to Congressional override) has the authority to prescribe the manner by which representatives are elected, including drawing of districts.   This doesn't mean that the legislature has to draw the districts, but that they have to explicitly give that authority to another body, such as redistricting commission or a court. (2) and that neither the chancery court's map nor their map drawing had been precleared.

The federal court then drew a 4-district map, which is the one currently being used.

The Supreme Court has ruled that federal court's should give deference to state redistricting efforts (that is the core issue in Texas) and should only draw a map as a last resort.

The Smith party appealed the federal court decision, adding in a claim that rather than drawing a map, the federal court should have ordered at large elections under 2a(c).  The Branch party intervened

The Supreme Court ruled that the federal court was correct on the VRA issue, but that its finding on the state court was vacated (see part II C of the decision).   "holding that the District Court specified was set forth to cover the eventuality of the principal stated ground’s being rejected on appeal–and therefore we vacate it as a basis for the injunction."

Actually the district court had ruled the other way - the VRA was a back-up if its main finding was rejected.  But the Supreme Court didn't want to rule on that issue.  If you listen to the oral arguments, there are references to the "constitutional issue" which as used as shorthand to mean they couldn't even specify what the issue was (aka "elephant in the room")

In Part III, the court addresses the at-large election issue.  The Stevens-Souter-Breyer concurring opinion is quite clear that 2a(c) was implicitly voided,  The O'Connor-Thomas concurring opinion is quite clear that 2a(c) is still part of the US Code, and there is no problem reconciling 2a(c) and 2c.   The plurality (Scalia-Rehnquist-Kennedy-Ginsburg) says that 2a(c) is still alive, but mumbles on for pages, which I think means that there might never actually be occasion for its use, since the district court had drawn a 4-district map.

During oral arguments the Smith lawyer suggested that at-large elections did not have to be conducted as a simple multi-member election for 4 representatives, but because of the VRA the court could order cumulative voting or other procedures.  Under cumulative voting, each voter is given 4 votes, which they can spread among 4 candidates, or bullet vote for one, etc.

PS Since the Mississippi legislature has not drawn a 2010 map, the district court has re-opened the case.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 10, 2011, 04:44:37 AM
One man one vote district rules would apply. 1967 congressional law still bars multi-member districts.
So it would actually be quite a bit simpler.
The Supreme Court says that is not entirely true since Congress did not repeal existing statutes regarding transitions after censuses.
Ah, interesting. Although I suspect the current 435 members of Congress would be very quick to repeal such to protect themselves.

What does that mean?  That states wouldn't formally have to redistrict every 10 years anymore?  Isn't that in Baker v. Carr and unrelated to VRA?

Wesberry v Sanders is the relevant decision for congressional districting.  It actually says that at-large elections are fine, because every voter in a State is choosing the representatives.

It used to be that after a census and new apportionment, states could continue to use their old districts "until" new districts were drawn.  Some states went decades until they drew new districts.  If they gained representatives, the additional representatives could be elected at large.  If they lost representatives, all would be elected at large.  I don't think any state ever went two elections at large, it was always enough incentive to redistrict.

These transitional provisions are still law 2 U.S.C. § 2a(c).

After Wesberry, there were lawsuits in almost all states, and no one knew how equal "equal" was.  Courts were reluctant to draw maps, so they started looking at the at-large provisions.  If a state's 25 districts were malapportioned, a court could simply order an at-large election for 25 representatives.   Congress was alarmed, and considered broader legislation but eventually stuck 2 U.S.C. § 2c as a stopgap but left the older provisions in place.

Most of the provisions under 2 U.S.C. § 2a(c) are unconstitutional following a census.   A state could not continue to use malapportioned districts.  It could not continue to use malapportioned districts plus some at large districts.   

But if a state lost representatives it could use at large elections.   These might be unconstitutional.  If there is a significant racial minority, they would be.   And the Supreme Court has hinted that this might apply to political minorities as well.  But there are ways to conduct at large elections that are constitutional such as cumulative voting.

And Congress could always step in and repeal the VRA 2 U.S.C. § 2a(c).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on December 10, 2011, 11:11:27 AM
Well, we'll see what the court says and if they don't rule in the Republicans favor, then there probably isn't much recourse left. This never would have happened if the Republicans hadn't played fast and loose with the VRA in parts of the state.

It never would have happened if the DC Circuit Court of Appeals realized that the legislature had the Constitutional right to draw the map, and the statutory option to  seek preclearance in its court.  Between the two, it would seem obvious that the DC Circuit was obligated to expedite its review.

The DC Circuit Court should have ruled long ago.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on December 10, 2011, 10:59:41 PM
Well, we'll see what the court says and if they don't rule in the Republicans favor, then there probably isn't much recourse left. This never would have happened if the Republicans hadn't played fast and loose with the VRA in parts of the state.

It never would have happened if the DC Circuit Court of Appeals realized that the legislature had the Constitutional right to draw the map, and the statutory option to  seek preclearance in its court.  Between the two, it would seem obvious that the DC Circuit was obligated to expedite its review.

The DC Circuit Court should have ruled long ago.

A year and a half ago the feeling in many circles was that the Obama DOJ was going to prove an obstacle to GOP maps in section 5 states. There was a lot of talk about bypassing DOJ preclearance and using the DC Circuit instead.

Yet, now it looks like the DOJ rolled over on opportunities for minority representation in states it reviewed. OTOH the TX plan goes the circuit route and gets the 3rd degree.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on December 14, 2011, 02:32:39 AM
Well, we'll see what the court says and if they don't rule in the Republicans favor, then there probably isn't much recourse left. This never would have happened if the Republicans hadn't played fast and loose with the VRA in parts of the state.

It never would have happened if the DC Circuit Court of Appeals realized that the legislature had the Constitutional right to draw the map, and the statutory option to  seek preclearance in its court.  Between the two, it would seem obvious that the DC Circuit was obligated to expedite its review.

The DC Circuit Court should have ruled long ago.

A year and a half ago the feeling in many circles was that the Obama DOJ was going to prove an obstacle to GOP maps in section 5 states. There was a lot of talk about bypassing DOJ preclearance and using the DC Circuit instead.

Yet, now it looks like the DOJ rolled over on opportunities for minority representation in states it reviewed. OTOH the TX plan goes the circuit route and gets the 3rd degree.

The GOP received the 3rd Degree from the Appeals Courts. The Supreme Court will have the final say.

We will never know what would have happened if the GOP had chosen to meekly abide by the DOJ rather than preparing to litigate.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 14, 2011, 10:33:41 AM
The GOP received the 3rd Degree from the Appeals Courts. The Supreme Court will have the final say.
Appeals Court?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on December 15, 2011, 03:01:30 AM
The GOP received the 3rd Degree from the Appeals Courts. The Supreme Court will have the final say.
Appeals Court?

DC Circuit.

It was a District Court that screwed them on the maps.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on December 15, 2011, 01:04:43 PM
The GOP received the 3rd Degree from the Appeals Courts. The Supreme Court will have the final say.
Appeals Court?

DC Circuit.

It was a District Court that screwed them on the maps.
DC district court.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 01, 2012, 04:01:39 PM
A year and a half ago the feeling in many circles was that the Obama DOJ was going to prove an obstacle to GOP maps in section 5 states. There was a lot of talk about bypassing DOJ preclearance and using the DC Circuit instead.

Yet, now it looks like the DOJ rolled over on opportunities for minority representation in states it reviewed. OTOH the TX plan goes the circuit route and gets the 3rd degree.

That really I think has much more to do with Texas's unique circumstances. Other states minority populations are dominated by blacks, and those districts pretty much always (other than LA-02 of course, briefly) vote the way you want them to.

Texas has a peculiar tri ethnic coalition that makes things more difficult, and turnout issues. Couple that with the fact that they occasionally vote for Republicans.



What is very interesting is that the DC court rejected the plaintiffs' percentage argument, namely, that it is the number of districts that count and not the percentage of districts. More specifically, going from 7/32 to 7/36 is valid and that an 8th district is not required under S5.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Joe Republic on January 01, 2012, 07:42:17 PM
Can somebody please describe the new TX-27/whichever district contains Brownsville?  The mother of a friend of mine is running for that seat.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on January 01, 2012, 09:17:30 PM
Can somebody please describe the new TX-27/whichever district contains Brownsville?  The mother of a friend of mine is running for that seat.

Brownsville is in the new TX-34. ~80% Hispanic, ~60% Obama district. Most of the territory is everything from the old 27th district south of Corpus Christi, which was moved northward up the coast to give newly-elected Republican Blake Farenthold a more favorable district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Joe Republic on January 01, 2012, 09:44:32 PM
Sweet!  My friend's mother was Solomon Ortiz's chief of staff for twenty years, so she has a pretty good chance I should think.

Edit:  Wait, she still filed in the 27th for some reason, despite living in Brownsville and it being a more favorable, open seat.  Hmm.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on January 01, 2012, 10:16:48 PM
Sweet!  My friend's mother was Solomon Ortiz's chief of staff for twenty years, so she has a pretty good chance I should think.

Edit:  Wait, she still filed in the 27th for some reason, despite living in Brownsville and it being a more favorable, open seat.  Hmm.

Yeah, looking this up myself, I'm not really sure what's going with the 27th and 34th districts; there are several people from the Brownsville area running in both districts, according to the internet. I'm having a hard time finding anything concrete, but I think at some point the numbers might have gotten switched?

edit- yes, looking on the different candidate's websites, it seems like the numbers got flipped between the map that passed the legislature and the court-drawn map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 01, 2012, 10:19:50 PM
Sweet!  My friend's mother was Solomon Ortiz's chief of staff for twenty years, so she has a pretty good chance I should think.

Edit:  Wait, she still filed in the 27th for some reason, despite living in Brownsville and it being a more favorable, open seat.  Hmm.

Yeah, looking this up myself, I'm not really sure what's going with the 27th and 34th districts; there are several people from the Brownsville area running in both districts, according to the internet. I'm having a hard time finding anything concrete, but I think at some point the numbers might have gotten switched?

The legislative map renumbered that district as 34 so Farenholdt could keep his number. The court map that the SCOTUS tossed renumbered it back to 27. So depending on when you filed, you might have filed for the wrong district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on January 01, 2012, 10:25:32 PM
Sweet!  My friend's mother was Solomon Ortiz's chief of staff for twenty years, so she has a pretty good chance I should think.

Edit:  Wait, she still filed in the 27th for some reason, despite living in Brownsville and it being a more favorable, open seat.  Hmm.

Yeah, looking this up myself, I'm not really sure what's going with the 27th and 34th districts; there are several people from the Brownsville area running in both districts, according to the internet. I'm having a hard time finding anything concrete, but I think at some point the numbers might have gotten switched?

The legislative map renumbered that district as 34 so Farenholdt could keep his number. The court map that the SCOTUS tossed renumbered it back to 27. So depending on when you filed, you might have filed for the wrong district.

I realized that and edited my post, but it looks like you beat me to it! Nevertheless, there's a special one-day extension of the filing deadline on February 1st, so presumably the map will be settled by then and every candidate will be able to file appropriately.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on January 01, 2012, 11:06:41 PM
Does anyone have the PVI for TX-33?  Thanks


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Bacon King on January 01, 2012, 11:47:19 PM
Does anyone have the PVI for TX-33?  Thanks

62.5% Obama, according to this: http://d2o6nd3dubbyr6.cloudfront.net/media/documents/PlanC220_RED206_2008G_Statewides.pdf


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on January 02, 2012, 12:07:05 AM
Does anyone have the PVI for TX-33?  Thanks

62.5% Obama, according to this: http://d2o6nd3dubbyr6.cloudfront.net/media/documents/PlanC220_RED206_2008G_Statewides.pdf


Wow!  Thanks Bacon.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 02, 2012, 12:08:59 PM
Does anyone have the PVI for TX-33?  Thanks

62.5% Obama, according to this: http://d2o6nd3dubbyr6.cloudfront.net/media/documents/PlanC220_RED206_2008G_Statewides.pdf

Has anyone combined this with the 2004 data to get PVIs?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 06, 2012, 10:54:33 PM
Sweet!  My friend's mother was Solomon Ortiz's chief of staff for twenty years, so she has a pretty good chance I should think.

Edit:  Wait, she still filed in the 27th for some reason, despite living in Brownsville and it being a more favorable, open seat.  Hmm.
After the Supreme Court stayed the interim map drawn by the San Antonio district court, the district court ordered that filing could continue, with candidates specifying not only the district they were seeking, but the map as well.

Your friend's mother presumably filed for CD-27 (interim map) rather than CD-27 (legislature map).  If she had filed based on the legislature-drawn map she would have filed for CD-34 (legislature).

The San Antonio court then rescheduled the primary, and said that once an interim map is finalized, there would be a new (perhaps very short) filing period.  Candidates would have to change their filing to conform to the final interim map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 09, 2012, 04:39:39 PM
Went to the Supreme Court today. The San Antonio court map (C220) is basically dead.

Nothing much else is clear other than that Scalia wants to use the state's map (C185).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 09, 2012, 04:56:14 PM
Went to the Supreme Court today. The San Antonio court map (C220) is basically dead.

Nothing much else is clear other than that Scalia wants to use the state's map (C185).

Supreme Court Transcript (http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/11-713.pdf)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Miles on January 09, 2012, 10:32:54 PM
Nothing much else is clear other than that Scalia wants to use the state's map (C185).

And I thought Sotomayor and Kagan were the activists. Silly me.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 09, 2012, 11:17:40 PM
Nothing much else is clear other than that Scalia wants to use the state's map (C185).

And I thought Sotomayor and Kagan were the activists. Silly me.


What? Scalia is not creating the state map, the duly elected legislature of Texas did. Sotomayor and Kagan only agreed (basically) that the judge's map is garbage.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas (Supreme Court Dumps Maps)
Post by: jimrtex on January 20, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
 Supreme Court Throws Out Interim Maps (http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-713.pdf)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 20, 2012, 10:37:31 AM
Unanimous too.


The interim plan’s Congressional District 33, for example, disregards aspects of the State’s plan that appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding.



The Justices flatly rejected the declaration of the San Antonio court that it was “not required to give any deference” to what the legislature had crafted.  The lower court was wrong, the Court added, “to the extent” it “exceeded its mission to draw interim maps that do not violate the Constitution or the Voting Rights Act, and substituted its own concept of ‘the collective public good’ for the Texas legislature’s determination of which policies serve ‘the interests of the citizens of Texas.’ ”

Further, the Court wrote, “because the District Court here had the benefit of a recently enacted plan to assist it, the court had neither the need nor the license to cast aside that vital aid.”


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on January 20, 2012, 10:44:02 AM
The map already kept some of the ridiculously drawn districts, so deference was met, except where the VRA wasn't followed. Minority areas of Ft. Worth have zero to do with rural areas hundreds of miles away. Any other civilized country would laugh at such at map as it is, yet the high court validates it. What a joke the system is.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 20, 2012, 11:07:58 AM
Unanimous too.

The interim plan’s Congressional District 33, for example, disregards aspects of the State’s plan that appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding.

The Justices flatly rejected the declaration of the San Antonio court that it was “not required to give any deference” to what the legislature had crafted.  The lower court was wrong, the Court added, “to the extent” it “exceeded its mission to draw interim maps that do not violate the Constitution or the Voting Rights Act, and substituted its own concept of ‘the collective public good’ for the Texas legislature’s determination of which policies serve ‘the interests of the citizens of Texas.’ ”

Further, the Court wrote, “because the District Court here had the benefit of a recently enacted plan to assist it, the court had neither the need nor the license to cast aside that vital aid.”
The Supreme Court remanded the case back to the SA District Court and told them to give more deference to the legislature's plans.

The problem is the district court has already heard the Section 2 claims, but can't rule on them because they aren't ripe for ruling on until the the DC Court rules on the Section 5 claims.  it would have been better if the Texas district court had not acted until after the DC Court had issued its ruling.  It is likely that this would have pushed the DC Court to act quicker.

The SA district court could simply ordered no legislative and congressional elections until a plan was precleared or until any apparent Section 5 violations were remedied.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 20, 2012, 11:08:49 AM
The map already kept some of the ridiculously drawn districts, so deference was met, except where the VRA wasn't followed. Minority areas of Ft. Worth have zero to do with rural areas hundreds of miles away. Any other civilized country would laugh at such at map as it is, yet the high court validates it. What a joke the system is.

What sour grapes, lol. In reality the Minority areas of Ft. Worth were combined with neighboring suburban areas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on January 20, 2012, 11:13:01 AM
The map already kept some of the ridiculously drawn districts, so deference was met, except where the VRA wasn't followed. Minority areas of Ft. Worth have zero to do with rural areas hundreds of miles away. Any other civilized country would laugh at such at map as it is, yet the high court validates it. What a joke the system is.

What sour grapes, lol.

The redistricting system as it is a joke and other countries draw their districts geographically, that's my point.

At least Arizona got a fair map, lol.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 20, 2012, 11:16:59 AM
The map already kept some of the ridiculously drawn districts, so deference was met, except where the VRA wasn't followed. Minority areas of Ft. Worth have zero to do with rural areas hundreds of miles away. Any other civilized country would laugh at such at map as it is, yet the high court validates it. What a joke the system is.
Which areas of Fort Worth have been placed in districts that extend into rural areas 100s of miles away?

Fort Worth itself extends into Denton, Wise, and Parker counties; and reaches the county lines with Dallas and Johnson counties.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: DrScholl on January 20, 2012, 11:32:23 AM
The lines were quite confusing to read and I mistook one district for another that actually went into Ft. Worth.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 20, 2012, 12:01:26 PM
Unanimous too.

The interim plan’s Congressional District 33, for example, disregards aspects of the State’s plan that appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding.

The Justices flatly rejected the declaration of the San Antonio court that it was “not required to give any deference” to what the legislature had crafted.  The lower court was wrong, the Court added, “to the extent” it “exceeded its mission to draw interim maps that do not violate the Constitution or the Voting Rights Act, and substituted its own concept of ‘the collective public good’ for the Texas legislature’s determination of which policies serve ‘the interests of the citizens of Texas.’ ”

Further, the Court wrote, “because the District Court here had the benefit of a recently enacted plan to assist it, the court had neither the need nor the license to cast aside that vital aid.”
The Supreme Court remanded the case back to the SA District Court and told them to give more deference to the legislature's plans.

The problem is the district court has already heard the Section 2 claims, but can't rule on them because they aren't ripe for ruling on until the the DC Court rules on the Section 5 claims.  it would have been better if the Texas district court had not acted until after the DC Court had issued its ruling.  It is likely that this would have pushed the DC Court to act quicker.

The SA district court could simply ordered no legislative and congressional elections until a plan was precleared or until any apparent Section 5 violations were remedied.

They did cast a negative impression on coalition districts. TX-33 is specifically out. I wonder if the San Antonio Court tries to wholesale redraw TX-25 again.

The original dissenting judge upheld a map that dismantled TX-25 and threw Doggett into a Hispanic district. Although now Doggett might still win that as Castro slid over to TX-20.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 20, 2012, 12:12:17 PM
I do note the SC says the state's plan for DFL "appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding" and the district court was right in not following it. Then they say the district court oughtn't to have drawn a coalition district on purpose. Doesn't that mean they ought to have drawn the (possible) Hispanic-majority district instead? It happens to be far more disruptive to the existing GOP gerrymander...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: CARLHAYDEN on January 20, 2012, 12:18:46 PM
The map already kept some of the ridiculously drawn districts, so deference was met, except where the VRA wasn't followed. Minority areas of Ft. Worth have zero to do with rural areas hundreds of miles away. Any other civilized country would laugh at such at map as it is, yet the high court validates it. What a joke the system is.

What sour grapes, lol.

The redistricting system as it is a joke and other countries draw their districts geographically, that's my point.

At least Arizona got a fair map, lol.

I will consider the source.

"Fair"!!!

It is simple theft and will probably also be overturned.

To you, "fair" means create as many Democrat friendly districts as possible.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 20, 2012, 12:33:10 PM
Unanimous too.

The interim plan’s Congressional District 33, for example, disregards aspects of the State’s plan that appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding.

The Justices flatly rejected the declaration of the San Antonio court that it was “not required to give any deference” to what the legislature had crafted.  The lower court was wrong, the Court added, “to the extent” it “exceeded its mission to draw interim maps that do not violate the Constitution or the Voting Rights Act, and substituted its own concept of ‘the collective public good’ for the Texas legislature’s determination of which policies serve ‘the interests of the citizens of Texas.’ ”

Further, the Court wrote, “because the District Court here had the benefit of a recently enacted plan to assist it, the court had neither the need nor the license to cast aside that vital aid.”
The Supreme Court remanded the case back to the SA District Court and told them to give more deference to the legislature's plans.

The problem is the district court has already heard the Section 2 claims, but can't rule on them because they aren't ripe for ruling on until the the DC Court rules on the Section 5 claims.  it would have been better if the Texas district court had not acted until after the DC Court had issued its ruling.  It is likely that this would have pushed the DC Court to act quicker.

The SA district court could simply ordered no legislative and congressional elections until a plan was precleared or until any apparent Section 5 violations were remedied.

They did cast a negative impression on coalition districts. TX-33 is specifically out. I wonder if the San Antonio Court tries to wholesale redraw TX-25 again.

The original dissenting judge upheld a map that dismantled TX-25 and threw Doggett into a Hispanic district. Although now Doggett might still win that as Castro slid over to TX-20.

That makes sense since they had ruled three years ago that crossover and coalition districts were at the discretion of the state. Section 2 only applied to 50%+ majority districts per Gingles.

I do note the SC says the state's plan for DFL "appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding" and the district court was right in not following it. Then they say the district court oughtn't to have drawn a coalition district on purpose. Doesn't that mean they ought to have drawn the (possible) Hispanic-majority district instead? It happens to be far more disruptive to the existing GOP gerrymander...


It seems like they should do so, if they would find that there is a likelihood of a successful challenge on that specific point. If the plaintiffs aren't making that case, then the court should look only to population growth.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 20, 2012, 12:35:01 PM
I do note the SC says the state's plan for DFL "appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding" and the district court was right in not following it. Then they say the district court oughtn't to have drawn a coalition district on purpose. Doesn't that mean they ought to have drawn the (possible) Hispanic-majority district instead? It happens to be far more disruptive to the existing GOP gerrymander...


Based on the next paragraph

If the District Court did set out to create a minority coalition district, rather than drawing a district that simply reflected population growth, it had no basis for doing so.




What they seem to want is Jimtrex's district in Frisco, or the state's 33rd in Arlington.


The previous sentence there is pretty clear. You can't draw districts the way you want without making findings of wrongdoing with the state's districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 20, 2012, 12:46:23 PM
Stress on "coalition", baby.

The previous sentence there is pretty clear. You can't draw districts the way you want without making findings of wrongdoing with the state's districts
unless they reflect aspects of the state plan thatstand a reasonable probability of failing to gain §5 preclearance. And by “reasonable probability” this Court means in this context that the §5 challenge is not insubstantial.

That's a far cry from the Catch-22 you seem to want... and that would render any overturning the VRA moot as the VRA would be effectively irrelevant anyways.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: nclib on January 20, 2012, 01:03:11 PM
So will the final TX map be better or worse for Democrats than the original legis. plan? (I assume worse than the court-drawn map.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 20, 2012, 01:06:20 PM
So will the final TX map be better or worse for Democrats than the original legis. plan?
Better. Or possibly (worst case) same; better for some particular San Antonio Democrats and worse for others. Or it will, in fact, be the original legis. plan; that is still possible.
So will the final TX map be better or worse for Democrats than the original legis. plan? (I assume worse than the court-drawn map.)
The joke is that not even that is clear.
Which in a way is unsurprising given how good that map still was for Republicans.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 20, 2012, 02:26:37 PM
That makes sense since they had ruled three years ago that crossover and coalition districts were at the discretion of the state. Section 2 only applied to 50%+ majority districts per Gingles.

The previously posted standards from the DC court applied S5 protections to such crossover and coalition districts (ie TX-25, and as Wendy Davis requested, SD-10). It remains to be seen if the DC court will now revisit those standards.

In any case, the DC circuit preclearance trial will certainly be appealed up the ladder shortly.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on January 20, 2012, 02:52:47 PM
This is a good opportunity for Republicans to go back to the drawing board and craft a respectable 25-11 map (2 new Dems 2 new Reps).  Its really quite easy, and it could pass muster


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 20, 2012, 03:32:06 PM
I do note the SC says the state's plan for DFL "appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding" and the district court was right in not following it. Then they say the district court oughtn't to have drawn a coalition district on purpose. Doesn't that mean they ought to have drawn the (possible) Hispanic-majority district instead? It happens to be far more disruptive to the existing GOP gerrymander...
The SA district court should just wait for the DC court to issue its ruling.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on January 20, 2012, 08:43:57 PM
I do note the SC says the state's plan for DFL "appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding" and the district court was right in not following it. Then they say the district court oughtn't to have drawn a coalition district on purpose. Doesn't that mean they ought to have drawn the (possible) Hispanic-majority district instead? It happens to be far more disruptive to the existing GOP gerrymander...
The SA district court should just wait for the DC court to issue its ruling.

But are they patient enough to do that?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on January 21, 2012, 05:46:04 AM
In any case, the DC circuit preclearance trial will certainly be appealed up the ladder shortly.
Quite. Absolutely. And whatever the SC will rule, it will once again evade a clear answer on the core issues at hand.

I do note the SC says the state's plan for DFL "appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding" and the district court was right in not following it. Then they say the district court oughtn't to have drawn a coalition district on purpose. Doesn't that mean they ought to have drawn the (possible) Hispanic-majority district instead? It happens to be far more disruptive to the existing GOP gerrymander...
The SA district court should just wait for the DC court to issue its ruling.
The Supreme Court doesn't seem to think so. It seems they (ie, this is what they could all agree on) just bitchslapped the San Antonio court for playing intrapartisan power games. Which I guess I approve of.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 21, 2012, 10:18:36 AM
Stress on "coalition", baby.

The previous sentence there is pretty clear. You can't draw districts the way you want without making findings of wrongdoing with the state's districts
unless they reflect aspects of the state plan thatstand a reasonable probability of failing to gain §5 preclearance. And by “reasonable probability” this Court means in this context that the §5 challenge is not insubstantial.

That's a far cry from the Catch-22 you seem to want... and that would render any overturning the VRA moot as the VRA would be effectively irrelevant anyways.

That still has the basic problem that the SA Court has no authority to make any determinations at all under S5. The entire basic problem with this mess is that 2 courts are involved.

I doubt the GOP is worried. Any plan that resembles the state's but changes DFW is a 25-11 map; Judge Smith already proposed that in the Canseco Cuellar plan, which is identical to the state's map elsewhere and gives Canseco a comfy district. 2 Dem districts in DFW makes every incumbent around there ironclad anyway even if it is disruptive.

If they get what they want for Quico and nail Doggett my guess is the GOP is satisfied. 25-11 is what they started with of course before Barton got greedy.



The terms crossover and coalition are of course pertinent here. If those terms are out all the crying in the world by Wendy Davis and company won't save her.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 21, 2012, 10:54:21 PM
I do note the SC says the state's plan for DFL "appear to be subject to strong challenges in the §5 proceeding" and the district court was right in not following it. Then they say the district court oughtn't to have drawn a coalition district on purpose. Doesn't that mean they ought to have drawn the (possible) Hispanic-majority district instead? It happens to be far more disruptive to the existing GOP gerrymander...
The SA district court should just wait for the DC court to issue its ruling.

But are they patient enough to do that?

They have issued an order that a conference be held on February 1 to discuss what they should do next.  February 1 was supposed to be the filing deadline for a new special filing period in which everyone could correct their filings to match the districts they were filing in.

And even then it was largely wishful feeling that there would enough time to conduct an April 3 primary.

Final arguments in the preclearance case are February 3.

They would now be faced with guessing what the DC court might order.  If they guess wrong, they would have to modify their plan.  And they have held the Section 2 trial, but they can't issue their ruling on Section 2 until after DC court rules.

If they had sense, they would simply let the rest of the primary go on without the congressional and legislative races, and aim for holding those at the time of the June 5 primary.  That gives them a couple of months to work on the districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on January 29, 2012, 01:04:06 PM
File this under "probably too good to be true" - reports that the legislature is willing to concede on the VRA and allow Dems to have a fairer share of the new seats driven by Latino population growth, and not slice Austin 5 ways, as part of a settlement that avoids the SA courts and gives them a map which still preserves Republican gerrymandering and protects most of their incumbents.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/27/imminent-settlement-possible-in-texas-redistricting-dispute/

I'll believe it when I see it. This would take more common sense than we've seen from that side.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on January 29, 2012, 09:05:48 PM
File this under "probably too good to be true" - reports that the legislature is willing to concede on the VRA and allow Dems to have a fairer share of the new seats driven by Latino population growth, and not slice Austin 5 ways, as part of a settlement that avoids the SA courts and gives them a map which still preserves Republican gerrymandering and protects most of their incumbents.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/27/imminent-settlement-possible-in-texas-redistricting-dispute/

I'll believe it when I see it. This would take more common sense than we've seen from that side.

Any compromise extends solely to the interim maps (per Abbott and Mattax) and will of course be immediately voided if and when Texas wins the preclearance case either at the DC circuit court or on appeal.

In the 1990 redistricting of course, Texas Democrats did not give Republicans their fair share of the new districts. How times change!


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on January 30, 2012, 12:22:38 PM
File this under "probably too good to be true" - reports that the legislature is willing to concede on the VRA and allow Dems to have a fairer share of the new seats driven by Latino population growth, and not slice Austin 5 ways, as part of a settlement that avoids the SA courts and gives them a map which still preserves Republican gerrymandering and protects most of their incumbents.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/27/imminent-settlement-possible-in-texas-redistricting-dispute/

I'll believe it when I see it. This would take more common sense than we've seen from that side.

Ferdinand Frank Fischer III likes to boast a lot.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 05, 2012, 11:47:33 AM
File this under "probably too good to be true" - reports that the legislature is willing to concede on the VRA and allow Dems to have a fairer share of the new seats driven by Latino population growth, and not slice Austin 5 ways, as part of a settlement that avoids the SA courts and gives them a map which still preserves Republican gerrymandering and protects most of their incumbents.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/27/imminent-settlement-possible-in-texas-redistricting-dispute/

I'll believe it when I see it. This would take more common sense than we've seen from that side.

Too good to be true, yep. Texas GOP just told the plaintiffs to get lost a couple days back.

I might add that in 1991 Texas Republican Anglos did not get 'their fair share' of the 3 new seats. Martin Frost kept them all.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on February 05, 2012, 11:54:51 AM
Probably just checking to see if Dems might go for an Ohio style "deal".


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 05, 2012, 12:04:20 PM
Probably just checking to see if Dems might go for an Ohio style "deal".

Well, the strategy was to peel off 2 or 3 of the plaintiffs (ie MALDEF). Give them their Metroplex Hispanic district, hose Doggett, and give Canseco a district where he's more likely than not to win rather than a tossup; ie, 24-11-1.

That's probably the most likely outcome when all this settles in about 3 years. As it stands, that's pretty much the map that Lamar Smith started with before Barton got greedy; all the time and effort put it basically gave the GOP a shot at the extra district for 10 years.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 06, 2012, 02:32:14 PM
Probably just checking to see if Dems might go for an Ohio style "deal".

Well, it worked.

It's probably plan C216.

http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PlanC216



A congressman's lawyer says the Texas attorney general has agreed to a temporary voting map that could keep the April 3 date for primary elections in Texas.

Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar's lawyer Rolando Rios tells The Associated Press that the attorney general agreed not to challenge a proposal that would give Texas two new Hispanic congressional seats.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 06, 2012, 03:28:55 PM
Probably just checking to see if Dems might go for an Ohio style "deal".

Well, it worked.

It's probably plan C216.

http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/?PlanHeader=PlanC216

A congressman's lawyer says the Texas attorney general has agreed to a temporary voting map that could keep the April 3 date for primary elections in Texas.

Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar's lawyer Rolando Rios tells The Associated Press that the attorney general agreed not to challenge a proposal that would give Texas two new Hispanic congressional seats.

Attorney General announces agreement. (https://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagnews/release.php?id=3967)

Everyone on board but Mexican American Legislative Caucus and NAACP. (and probably Travis County)

Congressional Map (http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/download/Congress/PLANC226.pdf)

Hispanic majority seat in Dallas/Tarrant county.  Probably not HCVAP majority, but enough blacks to make it a Democratic seat, but not enough to elect Marc Veasey.  1/2 of district in Dallas County is very Hispanic.

San Antonio-Austin seat the same as legislative plan, leaving Doggett carved out of his seat.

TX-23 takes all of Maverick county, and lots of twiddling in Bexar County.

Bunches of little shifts in Harris County (but accidentally makes 14 a little more R)

Currently: 23:9, but really 21:2:9

34,27: Cameron and points north.  +1 D, but 27 made safe:

22:1:10

33: New DFW Hispanic.  +1 D.  But everything that surrounds is safer.

22:1:11

36: Looks like East Texas seat, but is really replacement for 2, 1/2 of District in Harris County.

23:1:11

35,25: San Antonio-Austin Hispanic seat.  These are unchanged from legislative map.  Doggett will run in 35.  About 10 Republicans have filed in 25.

24:1:11

So overall +2.5 R, +1.5 D.

New seats: Hispanic 3, Republican 1, but old seats +1.5 R.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 06, 2012, 04:08:04 PM
Senate Plan (http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/download/Senate/PLANS167.pdf)

Cuts down a bit on the NE arm of 10, and adds areas in west Fort Worth and Tarrant County.

Wendy Davis was hoping to keep more of the district which Perry carried by +8, and was +18 down ballot.   What a whiner.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on February 06, 2012, 04:13:07 PM
A crappy map, but I guess the best were gonna get with all the obsessive racial issues involved


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on February 06, 2012, 04:15:10 PM
Senate Plan (http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/download/Senate/PLANS167.pdf)

Cuts down a bit on the NE arm of 10, and adds areas in west Fort Worth and Tarrant County.

Wendy Davis was hoping to keep more of the district which Perry carried by +8, and was +18 down ballot.   What a whiner.



What the Hell is up with Neuces? It seems to be the same unconstitutional needless split the courts tried to impose.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 07, 2012, 02:17:16 AM
Senate Plan (http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/download/Senate/PLANS167.pdf)

Cuts down a bit on the NE arm of 10, and adds areas in west Fort Worth and Tarrant County.

Wendy Davis was hoping to keep more of the district which Perry carried by +8, and was +18 down ballot.   What a whiner.


What the Hell is up with Neuces? It seems to be the same unconstitutional needless split the courts tried to impose.

Because they are trying to get agreement on an interim map.  They can still argue the constitutional issue elsewhere.

(1) Nueces County has almost the correct population for two districts, and the city of Corpus Christi has 90% of the population, so that two districts with a clear community of interest could and should be drawn.
(2) Moreover, the district to the north (35) is compact, constituting whole counties along I-37 between Corpus Christi and San Antonio, quite similar to its current configuration with adjustments for relatively slower population growth (San Patricio, Duval, La Salle) added, Karnes, Goliad dropped).
(3) And the district to the south (43) is reasonably compact, and quite similar to its current configuration, with Jim Wells added, and Jim Hogg removed, and the configuration of Cameron County adjusted to reflect slower growth in Brownsville vs Harlingen.

The current incumbent, JM Lozano announced that he was moving from Kingsville (in Kleberg) to Alice (in Jim Wells) rather than be placed in a Corpus Christi dominated district.  The compromise map would swap Jim Wells for Kleberg, and perhaps Lozano will move back to Kingsville.
(4) Nueces County has too many Anglos to permit two Hispanic majority districts to be drawn in the county; and San Patricio is too white (54%) to permit its addition to 35.

Therefore the 14th and 15 Amendments require that an area be sliced out of Nueces County (36% Hispanic) and combined with Victoria via two boat crossings; the remainder of Nueces County split in a way that pairs a less Hispanic area of eastern Corpus Christi with Jim Wells, and makes HD-43 stretch from Raymondville to Refugio via a circuitous route around Corpus Christi, in order to outvote San Patricio (this is an improvement over the court drawn plan since it least has road connectivity).

You aren't going to claim this subordinates everything else to race.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on February 07, 2012, 06:05:06 AM
Okay... what are the election figures on the 23rd?

Wait... Farenthold gets to be 25 now? The Paul district is that from the court plan? The 6th and 17th go into Austin now so that there is no open R seat that Doggett could have theoretically run in (but chose not to), as under the state's original map? All of these so they can somehow create two new districts in the DFW? Castro continues to run in the 20th amiright - so the Hispanic 35th would be a, what, Doggett vs Ciro race? Cannot see it, somehow. The new Dem seat is of course far more Tarranty than would have been necessary for creating it... because that way it doesn't impact on the North Dallas Republicans as much. Mark Veasey remains a possibility for it, I think.
D+2 R+2* could have been achieved with an infinitely cleaner map... but that would have stepped on more (non-Doggett) incumbent's toes.

*Based on current incumbents, R+3 D+1 on usual leans, assuming Canseco's remains a tossup. The new districts are two D, three R. One D seat is abolished. One notional D seat held by an R is changed so that it cannot happen again. Anyways, not really an Ohio style "deal" but an actual deal - bagging the Dems an extra seat.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on February 07, 2012, 06:08:02 AM
Oh, I was looking at C216. Apparently C226 is the one to look at?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 07, 2012, 08:14:29 AM
Oh, I was looking at C216. Apparently C226 is the one to look at?


They are just about the same. It's basically the state's map everywhere except Dallas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 07, 2012, 08:17:48 AM
Okay... what are the election figures on the 23rd?

Wait... Farenthold gets to be 25 now? The Paul district is that from the court plan? The 6th and 17th go into Austin now so that there is no open R seat that Doggett could have theoretically run in (but chose not to), as under the state's original map? All of these so they can somehow create two new districts in the DFW? Castro continues to run in the 20th amiright - so the Hispanic 35th would be a, what, Doggett vs Ciro race? Cannot see it, somehow. The new Dem seat is of course far more Tarranty than would have been necessary for creating it... because that way it doesn't impact on the North Dallas Republicans as much. Mark Veasey remains a possibility for it, I think.
D+2 R+2* could have been achieved with an infinitely cleaner map... but that would have stepped on more (non-Doggett) incumbent's toes.

*Based on current incumbents, R+3 D+1 on usual leans, assuming Canseco's remains a tossup. The new districts are two D, three R. One D seat is abolished. One notional D seat held by an R is changed so that it cannot happen again. Anyways, not really an Ohio style "deal" but an actual deal - bagging the Dems an extra seat.

49% Obama 49% McCain. Every other Republican over the last decade has won it more or less.

There are a lot of conservative Anglos in that district's portion of Bexar.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 07, 2012, 08:28:41 AM
Senate Plan (http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/download/Senate/PLANS167.pdf)

Cuts down a bit on the NE arm of 10, and adds areas in west Fort Worth and Tarrant County.

Wendy Davis was hoping to keep more of the district which Perry carried by +8, and was +18 down ballot.   What a whiner.




She must know at this point that she has become to utterly repugnant to Texas whites that she has no chance at winning even that district. McCain got about 52% there.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on February 07, 2012, 08:57:49 AM
Yeah, just playing with the overlay feature. There are minorish changes to the 20th/23rd and 23rd/28th boundary; the latter removing the splits of Maverick and Atascosa. (I wonder whether these changes marginally affect the partisan balance in the D favor? A direct full nonrounded comparison of presidential figures for old 23rd, lege plan 23rd, this 23rd, and maybe the Court's 23rd is what I'd like to see.)
There's also a confusing array of mostly very minor changes in Harris, Ft Bend, Brazoria and Galveston, affecting all districts but the 8th and 10th.
The rest of the change is all Dallas/Tarrant, with minor change to the 30th and 32nd, sizable & reasonable change to the 26th, and massive changes to the 6th and 12th (and 33nd, duh, which has very little overlap with the original version)... while the 24th, 5th and 3rd are actually not changed at all.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 07, 2012, 11:41:00 AM
Yeah, just playing with the overlay feature. There are minorish changes to the 20th/23rd and 23rd/28th boundary; the latter removing the splits of Maverick and Atascosa. (I wonder whether these changes marginally affect the partisan balance in the D favor? A direct full nonrounded comparison of presidential figures for old 23rd, lege plan 23rd, this 23rd, and maybe the Court's 23rd is what I'd like to see.)
There's also a confusing array of mostly very minor changes in Harris, Ft Bend, Brazoria and Galveston, affecting all districts but the 8th and 10th.
The rest of the change is all Dallas/Tarrant, with minor change to the 30th and 32nd, sizable & reasonable change to the 26th, and massive changes to the 6th and 12th (and 33nd, duh, which has very little overlap with the original version)... while the 24th, 5th and 3rd are actually not changed at all.

Sorry I can't give you better, but:

Roughly:

Existing TX-23 is 51% Obama
Legislature's is 48% Obama
SA Court's dead plan is 51% Obama
C226 is 49.7% Obama (he won it barely).

Data here:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1n71iXrMOYIkh770Q7axdYr3Hl5XiB9hXQDwAjuJSvZaLOVKwRIm285dK7xA6&hl=en_US

Compared to the legislature's map, that section of Maverick hurts (hence they removed it). But Quico got his desired precincts in Bexar/El Paso which is really the massive bulk of the district anyway.

TX-33 is less than 40% CVAP, but of course heavily Democratic (69% Obama). Compared to the Court's TX-33, it lowers black CVAP and increases Hispanic CVAP. As everyone has said from the beginning you cannot hit 50% CVAP in DFW, and I think they barely just hit it in Houston this decade (2 decades after the district was drawn).

Minor changes were made elsewhere to move people's houses and offices in/out.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on February 07, 2012, 03:03:34 PM
Probably just checking to see if Dems might go for an Ohio style "deal".

Well, it worked.
.

Has it? My twitter feed is reporting that this Republican victory didn't actually materialize because too many plaintiffs rejected it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 07, 2012, 04:06:18 PM
Probably just checking to see if Dems might go for an Ohio style "deal".

Well, it worked.
.

Has it? My twitter feed is reporting that this Republican victory didn't actually materialize because too many plaintiffs rejected it.

Well, they won't get their primary date, no. But I'd say these maps are quite a bit more likely than any other set of maps as they were drawn according to the Supreme Court criteria and the others were not.

But it's not a Republican victory, really. 11 districts for the Democrats is far out of proportion to what Texas Republicans want.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: freepcrusher on February 07, 2012, 06:30:57 PM
11 districts out of proportion? Considering the democrats usually get around 40 percent of the vote, it's not out of proportion at all.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Miles on February 07, 2012, 08:07:36 PM
11 districts out of proportion? Considering the democrats usually get around 40 percent of the vote, it's not out of proportion at all.
Then shouldn't we give Republicans 3 or 4 seats in Massachusetts?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 08, 2012, 12:24:12 AM
Okay... what are the election figures on the 23rd?

Wait... Farenthold gets to be 25 now? The Paul district is that from the court plan? The 6th and 17th go into Austin now so that there is no open R seat that Doggett could have theoretically run in (but chose not to), as under the state's original map? All of these so they can somehow create two new districts in the DFW? Castro continues to run in the 20th amiright - so the Hispanic 35th would be a, what, Doggett vs Ciro race? Cannot see it, somehow. The new Dem seat is of course far more Tarranty than would have been necessary for creating it... because that way it doesn't impact on the North Dallas Republicans as much. Mark Veasey remains a possibility for it, I think.
D+2 R+2* could have been achieved with an infinitely cleaner map... but that would have stepped on more (non-Doggett) incumbent's toes.

*Based on current incumbents, R+3 D+1 on usual leans, assuming Canseco's remains a tossup. The new districts are two D, three R. One D seat is abolished. One notional D seat held by an R is changed so that it cannot happen again. Anyways, not really an Ohio style "deal" but an actual deal - bagging the Dems an extra seat.

 Texas redistricting  (http://txredistricting.org/)

Scroll to at least the second page and you will find election data.

The compromise plan is based on the plan passed by the legislature.  The only changes are in the DFW area to put in the new district; in the SA area and Maverick County to make TX-23 more palatable; and in the Houston area.  For some reason TX-18 and TX-9 were pushed south.  I'm guessing it was to make the right hook of TX-2 to look more palatable.

In the process they cut downtown Houston out of TX-18 and put it in TX-29.  SJL was Outraged!(tm) because that was where she has her office.  Then the office of TX-9 was placed in TX-18.  They managed to do the same in TX-30, plus got EBJ's residence (her staff apparently didn't know she had moved downtown).

In his testimony Al Green also complained that a couple of upscale undeveloped areas had been put in his district, and it could tip it in a few years (if it was upscale, there wouldn't be enough residents to matter).  Anyhow they played around with the districts a little bit, and TX-14 did end up a little further north in Brazoria County.

Presumably Castro runs in TX-20 because Gonzalez is retiring.  Castro would have been in TX-20 all along, but wasn't running there because Gonzalez was around.  Doggett claims that when Castro talked to him about running for Congress, he thought he was talking about TX-23 which is where Castro lives now.

TX-35 in the legislative map and the compromise map is identical.

In the court drawn map, TX-35 was shifted to south Bexar County and stopped at the Travis County line.   TX-20 was drawn one block beyond Castro's house, and TX-23 was really yanked around (180,000 people moved from TX-23 to TX-21, 180,000 from TX-21 to TX-20, and 180,000 from TX-20 to TX-23).

This meant Doggett could run in TX-25; Gonzalez retired so he could make more money; Castro announces that he is running in TX-20 the district he lives in; Ciro Rodriguez switches to the reconfigured TX-35; Pete Gallego gets a free run in TX-23, and the Republican areas in El Paso County are unlikely to be as supportive as the Republican areas in Bexar County are for Canseco.  (winks and nudges omitted).

If the compromise map is used, Doggett runs in TX-35; Ciro is back to TX-23 against Gallego; Castro is in TX-20.  Maybe someone else runs against Doggett, there were challengers to Ciro under the court-drawn map for TX-35.  And Alberto Bustamante's son is running in TX-23.  I was never able to figure out where he lived - he might have been drawn out of TX-23.  (Alberto Bustamante was who was beaten by Henry Bonilla in 1992; Bustamante had beaten Chick Kazen after an earlier redistricting.

TX-23 was created after the 1970 census, an incumbent has been displaced due to redistricting each decade ever since.

If you don't put a lot of TX-33 in Tarrant, you might end up having to repeat in the future.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on February 08, 2012, 05:26:49 AM
Good enough on TX23, then. (Both good enough on info and good enough on what the numbers are, ie didn't sell out on that.)

Obviously a "fair" design would create a Black and a Hispanic seat in Dallas County and a coalition district in Tarrant (and force one of the three North Dallas Republicans into retirement) but that was never a likely outcome anyhow.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 09, 2012, 01:08:53 AM
Good enough on TX23, then. (Both good enough on info and good enough on what the numbers are, ie didn't sell out on that.)

Obviously a "fair" design would create a Black and a Hispanic seat in Dallas County and a coalition district in Tarrant (and force one of the three North Dallas Republicans into retirement) but that was never a likely outcome anyhow.
You can't create a Hispanic district in Dallas County unless you include enough Blacks to make it a Democratic district.   You also would have to come across along the Trinity River, which would keep SD-30 from going to far north.

And the coalition district in Tarrant is dubious.  The senate district was lost by 18 points in down ballot races in 2010.

Fun exercise: Eddie Bernice Johnson claimed that the compromise Hispanic district excluded Rafael Anchia and Roberton Alonzo, the two Hispanic representatives from Dallas County (HD-103 and HD-104), as well as Domingo Garcia, former Dallas Mayor pro tem and state representative.

But the proposal by MALC (the Mexican American Legislative Caucus) also cut out Anchia and Garcia.  Guess where they live.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 13, 2012, 07:01:53 PM
The NAACP is proposing a Dem gerrymander and spouting one of the more amusing advisory opinions around.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxeOfQQnUr_gY2Q1YjM1MDMtNGRjZC00ZjhkLWJlMmItOTY1NWU2ZjBkYTc2&pli=1



Apparently, they are upset at blacks being removed from TX-6 and TX-24 to be moved into the new TX-33......


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on February 13, 2012, 07:32:14 PM
The NAACP is proposing a Dem gerrymander and spouting one of the more amusing advisory opinions around.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxeOfQQnUr_gY2Q1YjM1MDMtNGRjZC00ZjhkLWJlMmItOTY1NWU2ZjBkYTc2&pli=1



Apparently, they are upset at blacks being removed from TX-6 and TX-24 to be moved into the new TX-33......

The memo claims both a section 2 and 5 violation, but much of the argument is about coalition districts which are only optional under section 2. The only relevance of section 5 here is if the SA court is going to rule that the DC case will likely find a section 5 deficiency. So it seems to me that much of his argument misses the target. But I admit that this is a tangled mess, and I may have missed something.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 13, 2012, 08:55:24 PM
The NAACP is proposing a Dem gerrymander and spouting one of the more amusing advisory opinions around.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxeOfQQnUr_gY2Q1YjM1MDMtNGRjZC00ZjhkLWJlMmItOTY1NWU2ZjBkYTc2&pli=1



Apparently, they are upset at blacks being removed from TX-6 and TX-24 to be moved into the new TX-33......

The memo claims both a section 2 and 5 violation, but much of the argument is about coalition districts which are only optional under section 2. The only relevance of section 5 here is if the SA court is going to rule that the DC case will likely find a section 5 deficiency. So it seems to me that much of his argument misses the target. But I admit that this is a tangled mess, and I may have missed something.

Well, for one, his last sentence is that the San Antonio Court should begin with plan C220. Of course, the Supreme Court ordered them to begin with plan C185.


Blacks are 16.2% of benchmark district 6 and 17.5% of plan C226 district 6. So its quite funny to see him claim that blacks have a better shot at the benchmark than the new district.....


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 22, 2012, 04:52:52 PM
The arguments from the plaintiffs get dumber and dumber.

First, they complained that 'nearly half' of Anglo house districts within 1 county were underpopulated. Apparently, they did not realize that such meant that 'more than half' of Anglo house districts were overpopulated.

Now, they come up with this gem.


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gY2YyMWUyNmUtYzMwNC00NjRhLTkwNGEtZWE5ZTQ5Mzg2MWZl/edit?pli=1


Perhaps even more troubling is the "lost votes" present in the compromise plan. As this
court is aware, there was an effort by the Speaker's staff to cynically game the system to draw districts that created the illusion of voting strength for candidates of choice of the Latino
The compromise plan is the codification of that intentionally discriminatory process.
On average, the candidate of choice of the Latino community can expect fewer votes and less
voting strength as a result of this problem.


Average Midterm
Average Presidential

-13,917
-26,974





By golly, a district with ~850,000 people in it provides fewer votes than a district with ~700,000 people in it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 22, 2012, 06:04:12 PM
The arguments from the plaintiffs get dumber and dumber.

First, they complained that 'nearly half' of Anglo house districts within 1 county were underpopulated. Apparently, they did not realize that such meant that 'more than half' of Anglo house districts were overpopulated.

Now, they come up with this gem.


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gY2YyMWUyNmUtYzMwNC00NjRhLTkwNGEtZWE5ZTQ5Mzg2MWZl/edit?pli=1


Perhaps even more troubling is the "lost votes" present in the compromise plan. As this
court is aware, there was an effort by the Speaker's staff to cynically game the system to draw districts that created the illusion of voting strength for candidates of choice of the Latino
The compromise plan is the codification of that intentionally discriminatory process.
On average, the candidate of choice of the Latino community can expect fewer votes and less
voting strength as a result of this problem.


Average Midterm
Average Presidential

-13,917
-26,974

By golly, a district with ~850,000 people in it provides fewer votes than a district with ~700,000 people in it.
Shh!  They'll catch on that we're trying to flip TX-16 by moving the Hispanics into TX-23.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 24, 2012, 02:06:08 PM
The NAACP is proposing a Dem gerrymander and spouting one of the more amusing advisory opinions around.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxeOfQQnUr_gY2Q1YjM1MDMtNGRjZC00ZjhkLWJlMmItOTY1NWU2ZjBkYTc2&pli=1



Apparently, they are upset at blacks being removed from TX-6 and TX-24 to be moved into the new TX-33......

The memo claims both a section 2 and 5 violation, but much of the argument is about coalition districts which are only optional under section 2. The only relevance of section 5 here is if the SA court is going to rule that the DC case will likely find a section 5 deficiency. So it seems to me that much of his argument misses the target. But I admit that this is a tangled mess, and I may have missed something.

Further update. The Latino groups are extremely upset at the NAACP and the black groups for trying to rig TX-33 in favor of Marc Veasey rather than a Latino.



The advisory described the changes as an effort “to capitalize on racially polarized voting to benefit non-Latino candidates in the Democratic primary.”


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 28, 2012, 04:08:49 PM
New maps are out.

http://txredistricting.org/


As far as I can initially tell they are the state/MALDEF maps.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 28, 2012, 08:17:19 PM
New maps are out.

http://txredistricting.org/

As far as I can initially tell they are the state/MALDEF maps.
There are bunches of reports below that.

The Congressional map has some minor, minor tweaks.   There are 6 shifts of 0 population, 1 of 10 persons and 1 of 16 persons.  I assume they have to do with precinct splits.  So the court plan ends up with a difference of 10 and 16 persons.

The Senate plan has the final compromise of placing SD-10 back to it current boundaries (which is only 2.85% too large).

The House plan restores Nueces County to two districts, overriding the compromise plan, the court interim plan, and the Judge Smith interim proposal.  Because they created a Cameron-Hidalgo district they had to redo the South Texas districts, but ended up restoring much of the Legislature-enacted plan, because the 3-way split of Nueces County had ripple effects.

They also twiddled 4 districts in Harris County, with about 30,000 shift among them.   Perhaps to avoid too many Anglos in one district; but perhaps to avoid too many Blacks in another.  They also made another change between 117 and 118 in Bexar County.  They came so close to a 4-way split of Lytle, I'm disappointed they didn't go for it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 28, 2012, 10:29:12 PM
A lot of moaning among the plaintiffs, naturally. Expected appeal of course, though tough to say on what grounds.

Canseco has 100k Bexar Anglos that will provide him with just about all the vote. You only get ~28% of the district to be Anglo so you have to make them count. Bexar Anglos are surely preferable to rural Anglos that might just vote for Peter Gallegeo.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on February 28, 2012, 11:11:26 PM
Looking at the map, the changes to CD-23 are as follows.  The El Paso section gets a lot more Democratic and Hispanic, as well as gaining a lot of population, and most of Ciro's south side precincts in San Antonio are excised.  That being said, the most black areas of CD-23 remain, and the areas added have a larger black contingent than most of San Antonio (towards the west).  Frio and part of LaSalle are added, but that adds very few votes. 

Anyway, swing district.  I don't think the changes are really that positive for Republicans under the surface, though it is unlikely a San Antonio Dem will run there. 

The rest of the map is 24-11 safe, so who cares.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 29, 2012, 09:21:02 AM
Well, Nick Lampson thinks he can win. I'm not sure what the point is; in the event he does they will redistrict him out again..


TX-15 dropped from 60 to 57% Obama. Might be interesting in a 2010 wave.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 29, 2012, 11:07:32 AM
Well, Nick Lampson thinks he can win. I'm not sure what the point is; in the event he does they will redistrict him out again..

TX-15 dropped from 60 to 57% Obama. Might be interesting in a 2010 wave.
You typically don't get 10 Republican candidates if they don't think winning the primary is the same as winning the election.

TX-15 was 51D-47R in the down ballot races in 2010, and you have a problem getting a candidate.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on February 29, 2012, 01:44:18 PM
Can someone explain to me how precedent does not rule the removal of all of Nueces (as opposed to just the Anglo portion) an illegal retrogression?
Now, I understand it was done because it helps insulate Farenthold in the primary and cook the new 34rd for someone from elsewhere (who's the likely new Democrat here and where's he from - Cameron I suppose?) but what I'd like to know is what would the minimal necessary changes be to undo it? Basically, put the solidly Hispanic areas of Nueces into the 34th, bring the 27th up to population with areas included in the Hispanic districts that are not Hispanic and/or were not included in VRA districts previously; how much do you need to change exactly?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: timothyinMD on February 29, 2012, 01:54:31 PM
Map = embarrassing


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on February 29, 2012, 04:10:37 PM
Can someone explain to me how precedent does not rule the removal of all of Nueces (as opposed to just the Anglo portion) an illegal retrogression?
Now, I understand it was done because it helps insulate Farenthold in the primary and cook the new 34rd for someone from elsewhere (who's the likely new Democrat here and where's he from - Cameron I suppose?) but what I'd like to know is what would the minimal necessary changes be to undo it? Basically, put the solidly Hispanic areas of Nueces into the 34th, bring the 27th up to population with areas included in the Hispanic districts that are not Hispanic and/or were not included in VRA districts previously; how much do you need to change exactly?


According to the bolded logic, the Democrats never would have been able to remove Montgomery County (Alabama) from the 7th district. Yet they did.

I'm curious as to why anyone cares about this.

Texas 15 and Texas 34 have a lot of Anglo northern Counties. If you swap those Anglo counties into TX-27 and swap out Latinos, you're just packing the Latino districts more and making TX-27 even safer.

Nueces County has about 200,000 Latinos. Taking them out of Texas-27 means replacing them with some portion of the following following counties, all Republican.

Guadalupe and Bexar alone probably could do it.




Bee (100%) 31,861 10,967 2,716 17,906 20,490 404 34.4 8.5 56.2 64.3 1.3
De Witt (100%) 20,097 11,482 2,030 6,502 8,366 249 57.1 10.1 32.4 41.6 1.2
Goliad (100%) 7,210 4,337 385 2,462 2,794 79 60.2 5.3 34.1 38.8 1.1
Gonzales (31%) 6,139 2,841 209 3,073 3,242 56 46.3 3.4 50.1 52.8 0.9
Guadalupe (83%) 108,688 58,393 7,360 41,045 47,637 2,658 53.7 6.8 37.8 43.8 2.4
Karnes (100%) 14,824 5,956 1,422 7,376 8,747 121 40.2 9.6 49.8 59.0 0.8
Live Oak (100%) 11,531 6,805 533 4,060 4,536 190 59.0 4.6 35.2 39.3 1.6
Wilson (10%) 4,188 2,840 52 1,266 1,308 40 67.8 1.2 30.2 31.2 1.
Bexar (9%) 158,356 60,509 31,513 62,527 91,419 6,428 38.2 19.9 39.5 57.7 4.1


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on February 29, 2012, 04:40:04 PM
Can someone explain to me how precedent does not rule the removal of all of Nueces (as opposed to just the Anglo portion) an illegal retrogression?
Now, I understand it was done because it helps insulate Farenthold in the primary and cook the new 34rd for someone from elsewhere (who's the likely new Democrat here and where's he from - Cameron I suppose?) but what I'd like to know is what would the minimal necessary changes be to undo it? Basically, put the solidly Hispanic areas of Nueces into the 34th, bring the 27th up to population with areas included in the Hispanic districts that are not Hispanic and/or were not included in VRA districts previously; how much do you need to change exactly?
What is the community of interest between Brownsville and Corpus Christi, other than ethnicity?  LULAC v Perry says that districts linking distant population centers merely to pump up the racial numbers are not VRA districts.  Perhaps in the past the additional population of Nueces County was necessary.  It is no longer so.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 01, 2012, 10:48:03 AM
http://www.texasmonthly.com/blogs/burkablog/?p=12917&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


 It was a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on March 02, 2012, 04:11:40 AM
According to the bolded logic, the Democrats never would have been able to remove Montgomery County (Alabama) from the 7th district. Yet they did.
Yeah, I know.

Basically these are the kind of things you can't do if you want to be extra certain to follow the case law to the t, but that legislatures will be fine with taking a low-risk gamble on. As such, its presence in what's officially a court map stinks a little. But, like, that doesn't tell us anything about these proceedings that we didn't know already.

Jim: Where is Corpus distant compared to, you know, the places northwest of it that were used instead?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 02, 2012, 01:57:49 PM
According to the bolded logic, the Democrats never would have been able to remove Montgomery County (Alabama) from the 7th district. Yet they did.
Yeah, I know.

Basically these are the kind of things you can't do if you want to be extra certain to follow the case law to the t, but that legislatures will be fine with taking a low-risk gamble on. As such, its presence in what's officially a court map stinks a little. But, like, that doesn't tell us anything about these proceedings that we didn't know already.

Jim: Where is Corpus distant compared to, you know, the places northwest of it that were used instead?

I suspect some aspect of this might help in 2020. If population growth in Hidalgo county continues at 20% they simply remove the northern counties for a new district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 03, 2012, 11:28:28 AM
According to the bolded logic, the Democrats never would have been able to remove Montgomery County (Alabama) from the 7th district. Yet they did.
Yeah, I know.

Basically these are the kind of things you can't do if you want to be extra certain to follow the case law to the t, but that legislatures will be fine with taking a low-risk gamble on. As such, its presence in what's officially a court map stinks a little. But, like, that doesn't tell us anything about these proceedings that we didn't know already.

Jim: Where is Corpus distant compared to, you know, the places northwest of it that were used instead?
Maybe the Supreme Court will rule that those areas should be consolidated in one district, instead of being split among three stretching north from the border.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on March 03, 2012, 11:35:38 AM
They did, of course, rule that last time around. (Include that in the remedy for the problems found elsewhere.)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 05, 2012, 09:54:39 AM
If anyone wants to see potent rule governed gerrymandering, check out the Dallas County (8 safe seats out of 14) and Tarrant (8 safe seats out of 11) in the Texas House map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sam Spade on March 06, 2012, 11:42:33 PM
J.M. Lozano (District 43 in the House) switched parties from Democrat to Republican today.

Though the change being given is discussions with George P. Bush, the change in his House district explains things better, as it went from being 53% Obama to being 51% McCain in the new map.

Of course, as I remember, Jose Aliseda (District 35 in the House) is from Bee County, so there might well be a primary.

http://www2.wnct.com/news/2012/mar/05/texas-house-democrat-lozano-becoming-a-republican-ar-2006613/


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 07, 2012, 12:07:37 PM
J.M. Lozano (District 43 in the House) switched parties from Democrat to Republican today.

Though the change being given is discussions with George P. Bush, the change in his House district explains things better, as it went from being 53% Obama to being 51% McCain in the new map.

Of course, as I remember, Jose Aliseda (District 35 in the House) is from Bee County, so there might well be a primary.

http://www2.wnct.com/news/2012/mar/05/texas-house-democrat-lozano-becoming-a-republican-ar-2006613/
Aliseda had announced back in September that he wasn't running for re-election (and that was from a district that was being challenged as being too compact and logical rather than racially gerrymandered), and is running for DA (Bee, Live Oak, McMullen).  Being a legislator can be kind of tough, since you have to take off about 5 months, and only pays $7600/year.

Yvonne Gonzalez Toureilles, who Aliseda defeated, and is also from Bee County has indicated that she is running.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 10, 2012, 12:23:27 AM
J.M. Lozano (District 43 in the House) switched parties from Democrat to Republican today.

Though the change being given is discussions with George P. Bush, the change in his House district explains things better, as it went from being 53% Obama to being 51% McCain in the new map.

Of course, as I remember, Jose Aliseda (District 35 in the House) is from Bee County, so there might well be a primary.

http://www2.wnct.com/news/2012/mar/05/texas-house-democrat-lozano-becoming-a-republican-ar-2006613/
Another party switcher.

http://www.riograndeguardian.com/lista_story.asp?story_no=24



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 12, 2012, 11:27:50 AM
Texas voter ID was of course just rejected by the DOJ. Highly expected and the lawsuits were already filed accordingly months ago.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Gass3268 on March 12, 2012, 01:00:54 PM
Good for the DOJ, too bad they can't do it in Wisconsin.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 14, 2012, 09:21:22 AM
MALDEF brief on TX-25.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gVnAyTjN5aUFRR09iNnU3cE01SDAtdw/edit?pli=1#

Under this logic, any majority-minority district can be dismantled, its Latino and Black voters scattered into districts where they constitute less than 30% of the voters, and, as long as a Democratic candidate wins the General Election, the Voting Rights Act will be satisfied. That is simply not the case.

However, the Voting Rights Act does not exist to protect political parties or office-holders. The Court need not accept the invitation to hold that any district, regardless of its demographic composition or level of polarized voting, is protected by section 5 simply because minority voters agree with the outcome of the General Election because such a holding would stretch section 5 beyond any reasonable interpretation.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on March 14, 2012, 09:58:01 AM
MALDEF brief on TX-25.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gVnAyTjN5aUFRR09iNnU3cE01SDAtdw/edit?pli=1#

Under this logic, any majority-minority district can be dismantled, its Latino and Black voters scattered into districts where they constitute less than 30% of the voters, and, as long as a Democratic candidate wins the General Election, the Voting Rights Act will be satisfied. That is simply not the case.

However, the Voting Rights Act does not exist to protect political parties or office-holders. The Court need not accept the invitation to hold that any district, regardless of its demographic composition or level of polarized voting, is protected by section 5 simply because minority voters agree with the outcome of the General Election because such a holding would stretch section 5 beyond any reasonable interpretation.

The VRA was passed during a time in the South in which the majority of Blacks voted for the Democratic primary, and, the Democratic nominee won the general election. If that was really the standard, there would not have been any need for the VRA. The VRA was passed to ensure Black candidates had the opportunity to win the Democratic primary.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 14, 2012, 06:18:31 PM
Texas has just requested that Section 5 be tossed.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 14, 2012, 06:40:13 PM
Good for the DOJ, too bad they can't do it in Wisconsin.

Texas has added to their lawsuit a challenge to Section 5 based on the fact that USDOJ can block a law that they can't in other states.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 14, 2012, 11:19:04 PM
MALDEF brief on TX-25.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gVnAyTjN5aUFRR09iNnU3cE01SDAtdw/edit?pli=1#

Under this logic, any majority-minority district can be dismantled, its Latino and Black voters scattered into districts where they constitute less than 30% of the voters, and, as long as a Democratic candidate wins the General Election, the Voting Rights Act will be satisfied. That is simply not the case.
I read just the opposite. The brief argues that a section 5 minority district must show that the minority can control the primary as well as the general election. They specifically argue that Doggett's district does not meet that test and can claim no section 5 protection.

Quote
However, the Voting Rights Act does not exist to protect political parties or office-holders. The Court need not accept the invitation to hold that any district, regardless of its demographic composition or level of polarized voting, is protected by section 5 simply because minority voters agree with the outcome of the General Election because such a holding would stretch section 5 beyond any reasonable interpretation.
This is from the brief and affirms what I said above. MALDEF is arguing against the protection of Doggett's district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 15, 2012, 07:09:11 AM
MALDEF brief on TX-25.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gVnAyTjN5aUFRR09iNnU3cE01SDAtdw/edit?pli=1#

Under this logic, any majority-minority district can be dismantled, its Latino and Black voters scattered into districts where they constitute less than 30% of the voters, and, as long as a Democratic candidate wins the General Election, the Voting Rights Act will be satisfied. That is simply not the case.
I read just the opposite. The brief argues that a section 5 minority district must show that the minority can control the primary as well as the general election. They specifically argue that Doggett's district does not meet that test and can claim no section 5 protection.

Quote
However, the Voting Rights Act does not exist to protect political parties or office-holders. The Court need not accept the invitation to hold that any district, regardless of its demographic composition or level of polarized voting, is protected by section 5 simply because minority voters agree with the outcome of the General Election because such a holding would stretch section 5 beyond any reasonable interpretation.
This is from the brief and affirms what I said above. MALDEF is arguing against the protection of Doggett's district.

Ah, yes. The 'logic' being referred to is that of the Travis County plaintiffs, who want to functionally extend S5 to all Democratic districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 17, 2012, 08:44:17 PM
While watching the hoops his weekend, I thought I'd apply my algorithm from CA and NY to TX to compare to the various official maps. As with the other states I start with a regional division of whole counties representing an area with a whole number of districts. However, TX has lots of counties and that allows for more regions with tighter tolerance to the ideal. In this case I required all the regions to be within 0.1% of the ideal district population (ie within 698). This is the map.

()

The regions (district count) and deviations from ideal are:
El Paso region (2 CDs) +133
Lubbock region (1 CD) +24
Amarillo region (1 CD) -160
Brownsville region (3 CDs) -368
San Antonio region (4 CDs) -422
Waco region (1 CD) +167
Austin region (3 CDs) -130
Dallas region (9 CDs) +33
Sugar Land region (1 CD) -182
Houston region (8 CDs) +262
Beaumont region (3 CDs) +644

Had I used the 0.5% tolerance from NY and CA I would have included three additional regions:
The counties east of Bexar and Comal would be separate from the San Antonio region
Denton and Cooke counties would be separate from the Dallas region
The southern part of the Beaumont district would form a single CD and leave the other two districts in a region just over 0.1%.

DRA maps in the next post ...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 17, 2012, 09:08:45 PM
Here's the resulting map in DRA from my initial set of regions. Districts are drawn to minimize county splits and all districts are within 500 and all except 35 and 36 are within 300 of the ideal population. The numbering follows the initial regional divisions.

There are 10 districts with a Hispanic VAP majority and 2 with a Black VAP majority. They are listed below along with the percent VAP and percent of registered voters with Spanish surnames (SSRV).

CD 1 (El Paso) H 77.9% (SSVR 66.2%)
CD 2 (Midland) H 59.9% (SSVR 50.2%)
CD 5 (Corpus Christi) H 67.8% (SSVR 58.4%)
CD 6 (Brownsville) H 85.7% (SSVR 78.5%)
CD 7 (McAllen) H 87.6% (SSVR 78.5%)
CD 9 (San Antonio west) HVAP 61.8% (SSVR 50.7%)
CD 10 (San Antonio south) HVAP 62.0% (SSVR 50.9%)
CD 18 (Dallas central/Ft Worth central) HVAP 63.3% (SSVR 38.0%)
CD 19 (Dallas south) BVAP 50.8%
CD 30 (Houston northwest) HVAP 60.3% (SSVR 33.8%)
CD 31 (Houston central) BVAP 50.9%
CD 32 (Houston east/Pasadena) HVAP 62.4% (SSVR 42.2%)

()

Here's the detail for central TX, DFW, and Houston:

()

()

()


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 20, 2012, 07:22:49 PM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 20, 2012, 09:34:03 PM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.

I don't interpret it that way.

23 is kept at benchmark performance;

33 is to address issues of fragmentation of the minority population in the DFW area, and the court doesn't believe a compact Hispanic CVAP majority district can be drawn.

35 addresses statewide retrogression claims, and 25 is not protected.   And because it is not possible to create 8 compact Hispanic districts in south Texas (maybe the Supreme Court will decide that 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 33, 34, and 35 are all non-compact),


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 20, 2012, 10:12:23 PM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.

I don't interpret it that way.

23 is kept at benchmark performance;

33 is to address issues of fragmentation of the minority population in the DFW area, and the court doesn't believe a compact Hispanic CVAP majority district can be drawn.

35 addresses statewide retrogression claims, and 25 is not protected.   And because it is not possible to create 8 compact Hispanic districts in south Texas (maybe the Supreme Court will decide that 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 33, 34, and 35 are all non-compact),

Is the court going to use CVAP? I noticed that submitted documents typically reference Spanish Surname Registered Voters, rather than CVAP.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 20, 2012, 10:51:27 PM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.

I don't interpret it that way.

23 is kept at benchmark performance;

33 is to address issues of fragmentation of the minority population in the DFW area, and the court doesn't believe a compact Hispanic CVAP majority district can be drawn.

35 addresses statewide retrogression claims, and 25 is not protected.   And because it is not possible to create 8 compact Hispanic districts in south Texas (maybe the Supreme Court will decide that 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 33, 34, and 35 are all non-compact),

Is the court going to use CVAP? I noticed that submitted documents typically reference Spanish Surname Registered Voters, rather than CVAP.
I think that SSVR is used to estimate registration of Hispanic voters since Texas not use race as a voter qualification.  I think that in general that they are using reconstructed election results, as the actual test.  It gets really messy when you start trying to figure out whether you not only have to choose enough minority voters, and factor in whether they vote the right way or, vote at all even though eligible, and whether other voters vote the same way.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 20, 2012, 11:11:04 PM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.

I don't interpret it that way.

23 is kept at benchmark performance;

33 is to address issues of fragmentation of the minority population in the DFW area, and the court doesn't believe a compact Hispanic CVAP majority district can be drawn.

35 addresses statewide retrogression claims, and 25 is not protected.   And because it is not possible to create 8 compact Hispanic districts in south Texas (maybe the Supreme Court will decide that 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 33, 34, and 35 are all non-compact),

Is the court going to use CVAP? I noticed that submitted documents typically reference Spanish Surname Registered Voters, rather than CVAP.
I think that SSVR is used to estimate registration of Hispanic voters since Texas not use race as a voter qualification.  I think that in general that they are using reconstructed election results, as the actual test.  It gets really messy when you start trying to figure out whether you not only have to choose enough minority voters, and factor in whether they vote the right way or, vote at all even though eligible, and whether other voters vote the same way.

In any case I didn't see a CVAP analysis from any of the parties like I did in CA. CVAP also is an estimate since it isn't from 2010 and is a sample. I assumed it wasn't relevant in the TX circuit. It's not used in IL under the 7th circuit.

The interesting feature of SSVR, is when a district is over 50% SSVR and votes solidly GOP. I would conclude that either there isn't much polarized voting compared to other areas of the state. My example is CD 2 in my map - 50.2% SSRV and 60%+ GOP.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 21, 2012, 12:03:02 AM
While watching the hoops his weekend, I thought I'd apply my algorithm from CA and NY to TX to compare to the various official maps. As with the other states I start with a regional division of whole counties representing an area with a whole number of districts. However, TX has lots of counties and that allows for more regions with tighter tolerance to the ideal. In this case I required all the regions to be within 0.1% of the ideal district population (ie within 698). This is the map.

()

The regions (district count) and deviations from ideal are:
El Paso region (2 CDs) +133
Lubbock region (1 CD) +24
Amarillo region (1 CD) -160
Brownsville region (3 CDs) -368
San Antonio region (4 CDs) -422
Waco region (1 CD) +167
Austin region (3 CDs) -130
Dallas region (9 CDs) +33
Sugar Land region (1 CD) -182
Houston region (8 CDs) +262
Beaumont region (3 CDs) +644
I'd start from the following map, which are the state planning regions.

()

I'd let the citizens of each county decide whether they wanted to switch to another apportionment region.  The regions are somewhat imposed, and are centered on cities.  Some of the outer counties like Erath, Walker, Llano, and Matagorda would probably want to switch.   This might be on the ballot in November of the -0 year.

The next step would be to adjust the areas so that they are close to an integer multiple of a number of districts.  The 19 areas with a population less than 1.5 districts, have a total population equivalent to 10.36 representatives.

I would dissolve one at a time, until the number of such areas equals the total number of representatives apportioned to them (eg at least 9 would be dissolved).   Redistricting juries in each county would choose where their county is switched to.  So the counties in the Concho Valley (San Angelo) region would choose first.

There would eventually be 15 or so regions which would each be apportioned an integer number of districts.  Each region would have a surplus or a deficit.

Regions with the deficits would select areas from adjacent regions with a surplus or smaller deficit.  Regions with surpluses would release areas to adjacent regions with a deficit or smaller surplus.

Then regions apportioned multiple districts would be divided.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 21, 2012, 12:20:20 AM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.

I don't interpret it that way.

23 is kept at benchmark performance;

33 is to address issues of fragmentation of the minority population in the DFW area, and the court doesn't believe a compact Hispanic CVAP majority district can be drawn.

35 addresses statewide retrogression claims, and 25 is not protected.   And because it is not possible to create 8 compact Hispanic districts in south Texas (maybe the Supreme Court will decide that 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 33, 34, and 35 are all non-compact),

Is the court going to use CVAP? I noticed that submitted documents typically reference Spanish Surname Registered Voters, rather than CVAP.
I think that SSVR is used to estimate registration of Hispanic voters since Texas not use race as a voter qualification.  I think that in general that they are using reconstructed election results, as the actual test.  It gets really messy when you start trying to figure out whether you not only have to choose enough minority voters, and factor in whether they vote the right way or, vote at all even though eligible, and whether other voters vote the same way.

In any case I didn't see a CVAP analysis from any of the parties like I did in CA. CVAP also is an estimate since it isn't from 2010 and is a sample. I assumed it wasn't relevant in the TX circuit. It's not used in IL under the 7th circuit.

The interesting feature of SSVR, is when a district is over 50% SSVR and votes solidly GOP. I would conclude that either there isn't much polarized voting compared to other areas of the state. My example is CD 2 in my map - 50.2% SSRV and 60%+ GOP.
The DC circuit rejected the use of CVAP for Section 5 purposes.   The USDOJ claims you can't determine "ability" to elect without checking voting results.  This was the interpretation of the Florida Supreme Court of its constitutional amendments (rather than simply saying districts must conform to federal law, Florida incorporated the standards of the VRA into their constitution).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 21, 2012, 12:27:21 AM
While watching the hoops his weekend, I thought I'd apply my algorithm from CA and NY to TX to compare to the various official maps. As with the other states I start with a regional division of whole counties representing an area with a whole number of districts. However, TX has lots of counties and that allows for more regions with tighter tolerance to the ideal. In this case I required all the regions to be within 0.1% of the ideal district population (ie within 698). This is the map.

()

The regions (district count) and deviations from ideal are:
El Paso region (2 CDs) +133
Lubbock region (1 CD) +24
Amarillo region (1 CD) -160
Brownsville region (3 CDs) -368
San Antonio region (4 CDs) -422
Waco region (1 CD) +167
Austin region (3 CDs) -130
Dallas region (9 CDs) +33
Sugar Land region (1 CD) -182
Houston region (8 CDs) +262
Beaumont region (3 CDs) +644
I'd start from the following map, which are the state planning regions.

()

I'd let the citizens of each county decide whether they wanted to switch to another apportionment region.  The regions are somewhat imposed, and are centered on cities.  Some of the outer counties like Erath, Walker, Llano, and Matagorda would probably want to switch.   This might be on the ballot in November of the -0 year.

The next step would be to adjust the areas so that they are close to an integer multiple of a number of districts.  The 19 areas with a population less than 1.5 districts, have a total population equivalent to 10.36 representatives.

I would dissolve one at a time, until the number of such areas equals the total number of representatives apportioned to them (eg at least 9 would be dissolved).   Redistricting juries in each county would choose where their county is switched to.  So the counties in the Concho Valley (San Angelo) region would choose first.

There would eventually be 15 or so regions which would each be apportioned an integer number of districts.  Each region would have a surplus or a deficit.

Regions with the deficits would select areas from adjacent regions with a surplus or smaller deficit.  Regions with surpluses would release areas to adjacent regions with a deficit or smaller surplus.

Then regions apportioned multiple districts would be divided.

What fascinates me is that I can picture my regions emerging from yours through the process you describe. I not saying that those areas would choose to join, but my regions look like they were made by combining the ones in your map, and then adjusting a few counties to get them close to a whole number of districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 21, 2012, 12:30:47 AM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.

I don't interpret it that way.

23 is kept at benchmark performance;

33 is to address issues of fragmentation of the minority population in the DFW area, and the court doesn't believe a compact Hispanic CVAP majority district can be drawn.

35 addresses statewide retrogression claims, and 25 is not protected.   And because it is not possible to create 8 compact Hispanic districts in south Texas (maybe the Supreme Court will decide that 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 33, 34, and 35 are all non-compact),

Is the court going to use CVAP? I noticed that submitted documents typically reference Spanish Surname Registered Voters, rather than CVAP.
I think that SSVR is used to estimate registration of Hispanic voters since Texas not use race as a voter qualification.  I think that in general that they are using reconstructed election results, as the actual test.  It gets really messy when you start trying to figure out whether you not only have to choose enough minority voters, and factor in whether they vote the right way or, vote at all even though eligible, and whether other voters vote the same way.

In any case I didn't see a CVAP analysis from any of the parties like I did in CA. CVAP also is an estimate since it isn't from 2010 and is a sample. I assumed it wasn't relevant in the TX circuit. It's not used in IL under the 7th circuit.

The interesting feature of SSVR, is when a district is over 50% SSVR and votes solidly GOP. I would conclude that either there isn't much polarized voting compared to other areas of the state. My example is CD 2 in my map - 50.2% SSRV and 60%+ GOP.
The DC circuit rejected the use of CVAP for Section 5 purposes.   The USDOJ claims you can't determine "ability" to elect without checking voting results.  This was the interpretation of the Florida Supreme Court of its constitutional amendments (rather than simply saying districts must conform to federal law, Florida incorporated the standards of the VRA into their constitution).


That seems to put SSRV on a stronger footing than CVAP as a proxy for voting strength. Voting analysis can follow. An ecological analysis is probably needed to discern whether the minority engages in sufficient bloc voting to meet the Gingles test for section 2 districts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 21, 2012, 02:11:17 AM
I'd start from the following map, which are the state planning regions.

()

What fascinates me is that I can picture my regions emerging from yours through the process you describe. I not saying that those areas would choose to join, but my regions look like they were made by combining the ones in your map, and then adjusting a few counties to get them close to a whole number of districts.
Something like this, which simply involved combining whole regions (I did split off all the area east of El Paso County, since I'll also have to shift a portion from the county as well.

()

There are some implicit pairing of regions which will get a lot closer to integer apportionment.

Panhandle-Nortex + South Plains-West Central

I might end up shifting Wise to the northern area, and using the surplus from the southern district below.

El Paso + Trans Pecos-Permian Basin-Concho Valley

Will need a shift from El Paso County

Texoma-Ark Tex-East Texas + Deep East Texas-Golden Triangle

Will need a small increment from the west.

Lower Rio Grande Valley-South Texas + Coastal Bend

I'll have to cut into Cameron or Hidalgo county, but I didn't really like your pairing of Corpus Christi and Laredo

Alamo-Middle Rio Grande + Capital

A district between Austin and San Antonio will need to created, and there is a surplus that needs to be shifted east.

North Central (DFW) + Central Texas

Not a real obvious pairing, but coming up to Parker and Hood will create a district that is largely outside the immediate metro area.  This is also the reason for skimming some surplus from the West Central region (Comanche, Eastland).

The DFW area splits roughly Dallas 3.5, Tarrant 2.5, Collin 1, Denton 1, and South and East 1.

Heart of Texas-Brazos Valley

Will need a bit from the west and will transfers some on to the east,

Houston-Galveston-Golden Crescent

Rather than Houston extending eastward, the western district will come into southern Brazoria County; and then there will be a Fort Bend; Galveston-Brazoria; and Montgomery-Walker-Liberty districts which will all extend into Harris County, leaving 5 districts in the county.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on March 21, 2012, 06:58:43 AM

There are some implicit pairing of regions which will get a lot closer to integer apportionment.

Panhandle-Nortex + South Plains-West Central

I might end up shifting Wise to the northern area, and using the surplus from the southern district below.

El Paso + Trans Pecos-Permian Basin-Concho Valley

Will need a shift from El Paso County
My version that used the middle Rio Grande instead of the Concho Valley was to get a 50%+ SSRV district. If that's not a factor, I like your compactness.

Quote
Texoma-Ark Tex-East Texas + Deep East Texas-Golden Triangle

Will need a small increment from the west.
Which is pretty much what I did for my East TX region with 3 CDs.

Quote
Lower Rio Grande Valley-South Texas + Coastal Bend

I'll have to cut into Cameron or Hidalgo county, but I didn't really like your pairing of Corpus Christi and Laredo
But you can't deny that the pairing gets to almost exactly 3 CDs. Once those are paired, are the fajita strips really better than my Laredo-Corpus link?

Quote
Alamo-Middle Rio Grande + Capital

A district between Austin and San Antonio will need to created, and there is a surplus that needs to be shifted east.

North Central (DFW) + Central Texas

Not a real obvious pairing, but coming up to Parker and Hood will create a district that is largely outside the immediate metro area.  This is also the reason for skimming some surplus from the West Central region (Comanche, Eastland).

The DFW area splits roughly Dallas 3.5, Tarrant 2.5, Collin 1, Denton 1, and South and East 1.
I found it much easier to cut Ellis and Navarro out. The remaining population is very close to 9 CDs, and it facilitates drawing VRA districts in Dallas County (in case that matters here). Those excess counties on the south then move to ...

Quote
Heart of Texas-Brazos Valley

Will need a bit from the west and will transfers some on to the east,

Houston-Galveston-Golden Crescent

Rather than Houston extending eastward, the western district will come into southern Brazoria County; and then there will be a Fort Bend; Galveston-Brazoria; and Montgomery-Walker-Liberty districts which will all extend into Harris County, leaving 5 districts in the county.

I also had 5 CDs in Harris, and I also used the Galveston-Brazoria and Montgomery-Liberty links. though I came in from College Station instead of Fort Bend, in part because I could so precisely make a CD with Fort Bend and other counties outside of Harris. I think your region will force a split of Fort Bend.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on March 21, 2012, 08:01:46 AM
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxeOfQQnUr_gOEx1X0dxbllTS3VhVmxtRk9aSjJ6QQ/edit

Ultimately, the court decided that - on an interim basis - the loss of CD-25 was offset for the district’s Hispanic population by inclusion of most of the Hispanic population in the new CD-35 and that the impact on the district’s African-American population was offset by the creation of the new CD-33 in North Texas.

I don't interpret it that way.

23 is kept at benchmark performance;

33 is to address issues of fragmentation of the minority population in the DFW area, and the court doesn't believe a compact Hispanic CVAP majority district can be drawn.

35 addresses statewide retrogression claims, and 25 is not protected.   And because it is not possible to create 8 compact Hispanic districts in south Texas (maybe the Supreme Court will decide that 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 33, 34, and 35 are all non-compact),

What is not addressed is whether 33 is a required district or not. The Court seems to be leaning no, which is excellent for the GOP for a mid-decade redistricting.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 21, 2012, 12:49:57 PM
I'd start from the following map, which are the state planning regions.

()

This combines regions.

()

And this shifts some counties to make the regions more precisely equal.

()

After shifting part of El Paso County to Trans Pecos-Permian Basin-Concho Valley; Travis County to Alamo; and Cameron County to Coastal Bend; all regions except those in the east will be within 0.5% of the ideal population.

The three east Texas districts are collectively within 0.501%, so some tiny county cuts can equalize those.

And with some of the outer districts indicated.

()

County Splits:

El Paso 1.00
El Paso 0.15 + Trans Pecos-Permian Basin-Concho Valley 0.85

Hidalgo 0.53 + Webb-Zapata-Starr 0.47
Hidalgo 0.58 + Cameron 0.42
Cameron 0.15 + Coastal Bend 0.85

Bexar 0.47 + Middle Rio Grande + counties to south and west 0.53
Bexar (2 districts)

Travis 0.06 + area between Austin and San Antonio 0.94
Travis 0.40 + Williamson 0.60
Travis (1 district)

Harris 0.02 + Upper Gulf 0.98
Harris 0.16 + Fort Bend 0.84
Harris 0.42 + Galveston-Chambers-Liberty 0.58
Harris 0.25 + Montgomery-Walker
Harris (5 districts)

Collin 0.05 + Denton 0.95
Collin 0.04 + Hood-to-Hunt 0.96
Collin 0.02 + Dallas 0.98
Collin (1 district)
Dallas (2 districts)
Dallas 0.41 + Tarrant 0.59
Tarrant (2 districts)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 21, 2012, 12:58:48 PM
That seems to put SSRV on a stronger footing than CVAP as a proxy for voting strength. Voting analysis can follow. An ecological analysis is probably needed to discern whether the minority engages in sufficient bloc voting to meet the Gingles test for section 2 districts.
Sort of, though Spanish surnamed and Hispanic are not equivalent.

And what is the measure of "sufficiency"?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on March 22, 2012, 01:00:31 PM
That seems to put SSRV on a stronger footing than CVAP as a proxy for voting strength. Voting analysis can follow. An ecological analysis is probably needed to discern whether the minority engages in sufficient bloc voting to meet the Gingles test for section 2 districts.
Sort of, though Spanish surnamed and Hispanic are not equivalent.

And what is the measure of "sufficiency"?
I would think the reason why people just used the SSVR data and didn't do complex estimative calculations of actual CVAP is presumably that it was available real data, didn't cost anything to produce, and seemed good enough until/unless a court said it wasn't.
Does similar real data actually exist for California?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 22, 2012, 08:51:31 PM
That seems to put SSRV on a stronger footing than CVAP as a proxy for voting strength. Voting analysis can follow. An ecological analysis is probably needed to discern whether the minority engages in sufficient bloc voting to meet the Gingles test for section 2 districts.
Sort of, though Spanish surnamed and Hispanic are not equivalent.

And what is the measure of "sufficiency"?
I would think the reason why people just used the SSVR data and didn't do complex estimative calculations of actual CVAP is presumably that it was available real data, didn't cost anything to produce, and seemed good enough until/unless a court said it wasn't.
Does similar real data actually exist for California?
In the State of Texas Section 5 lawsuit against the United States (when you week judicial preclearance you have to sue the US Government). they used HVAP, HCVAP, and SSVR.

The 5th Circuit (which Texas is under) has ruled that HCVAP is the relevant statistic.

Texas said that 7 districts were over 60% HVAP, and an 8th (TX-35 was at 58.3%, with HCVAP at 51.9%).  The test for the 3 black districts was 40% BVAP.

There is 2010 census data for HVAP and BVAP to the block level, since redistricting data includes race and Hispanicity, for the total population and over 18.

Citizenship is only reported for the ACS, and requires a 5-year sample for statistically reliable small area estimates.  It is reported at a block group level.  The legislative council must somehow massage this to get data for districts.  Perhaps it is as simple as applying the HCVAP/HVAP ratio for a block group times the HVAP for each block in the block group.  Texas generated reports for both 2005-2009 ACS and 2006-2010 ACS (which was released while the litigation was going on).

I'm not sure how the Spanish Surname list was generated.  Maybe it is used by the Census Bureau, or maybe it was generated from census data.  California might not be as automated as Texas.  The Texas complaint said that there was about a 90% correlation between "Spanish-Surnamed" and "Hispanic".   I suspect that SSVR is only reported for an election precinct level.

One of the claims of the plaintiffs in SA, intervenors in DC was that Texas was drawing districts based on race, since they split precincts, and there is no political data for split precincts.  Of course, their hired experts explain how you can estimate vote share by race.

The DC Court has said that that Texas should not based their plan on HCVAP or BVAP, but should use election results.  So Texas had their hired experts calculate the results, and then briefs clash over interpretation. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on March 27, 2012, 07:18:27 PM
Sylvia Romo has been endorsed by former San Antonio mayor and HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros, current mayor Julian Castro, the Bexar County Judge, 5 of 7 Bexar County Democratic representatives and state senator Leticia Van de Putte in the TX-35 race against some guy from Austin.



Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on March 30, 2012, 10:35:21 AM
Hank Sizzlin' Cisneros. He still around?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 30, 2012, 12:05:28 PM
16th District reverts in primary.


Past practise of the DoJ in 1984 [Mississippi] and 2004 [Texas] has been to redraw a yet heavier minority district if the "wrong" candidate won [White Republican in Mississippi and Hispanic Republican in Texas.] Could we see El Paso redrawn to exclude as many Whites as possible?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 30, 2012, 09:35:17 PM
Did the winner of the Dem primary not have a majority of the Hispanic vote?

I'm sure you're well aware that it's the race of the voters, and not the candidate, that is significant for VRA?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on May 30, 2012, 10:11:34 PM
16th District reverts in primary.


Past practise of the DoJ in 1984 [Mississippi] and 2004 [Texas] has been to redraw a yet heavier minority district if the "wrong" candidate won [White Republican in Mississippi and Hispanic Republican in Texas.] Could we see El Paso redrawn to exclude as many Whites as possible?


Only if the counties involved are subject to Section 5 of the VRA, which may not see another year of life before SCOTUS axes it.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2012, 11:32:42 AM
BTW, El Paso County, TX has more than the population of a congressional district but of that population, 82.2% is Hispanic. Only 13.1% (about 100,000 people) is non-Hispanic white. At least some of them are presumably in TX-23 and not TX-16.

It looks like BSB is responding to the fact that the winner has an Irish surname, but that's not relevant to VRA. If there's racially polarized voting in El Paso, than almost definitionally it's not Anglos who are winning.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2012, 11:45:43 AM
BTW, El Paso County, TX has more than the population of a congressional district but of that population, 82.2% is Hispanic. Only 13.1% (about 100,000 people) is non-Hispanic white. At least some of them are presumably in TX-23 and not TX-16.

It looks like BSB is responding to the fact that the winner has an Irish surname, but that's not relevant to VRA. If there's racially polarized voting in El Paso, than almost definitionally it's not Anglos who are winning.

Very few, if memory serves. The state intentionally drew TX-23 to include El Paso County Hispanics, so they could balance it with Bexar County whites.

Bexar County whites are much preferred for Quico Canseco.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 31, 2012, 12:26:47 PM
Did the winner of the Dem primary not have a majority of the Hispanic vote?

No. The winner had 50.4% of the vote, and a much higher percentage among White voters.

Quote
I'm sure you're well aware that it's the race of the voters, and not the candidate, that is significant for VRA?

No, that is the exact opposite of the Truth. The VRA has two key components. First, that Blacks, and other minorities, can vote. And, second, they can vote for whomever they want, and, not just the preferable/least_objectionable White candidate.

Again, the past practise of the DoJ has been to demand that such districts that revert be "packed" with even more minorities so that a minority candidate wins.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 31, 2012, 12:37:29 PM
BTW, El Paso County, TX has more than the population of a congressional district but of that population, 82.2% is Hispanic. Only 13.1% (about 100,000 people) is non-Hispanic white. At least some of them are presumably in TX-23 and not TX-16.

It looks like BSB is responding to the fact that the winner has an Irish surname,

No, I'm responding to the fact that according to media accounts neither his mother or father is of Hispanic heritage.

Quote
but that's not relevant to VRA.

Again, in 1984 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a White Republican beat a Black Democrat in Mississippi in a VRA district, and 2004 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a Hispanic Republican beat a Hispanic Democrat in a VRA district. So why isn't it "relevant to the VRA" that a White Democrat beat a Hispanic Democratic in a VRA district?

Quote
If there's racially polarized voting in El Paso, than almost definitionally it's not Anglos who are winning.

Except, of course, for this election.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 31, 2012, 12:39:03 PM
BTW, El Paso County, TX has more than the population of a congressional district but of that population, 82.2% is Hispanic. Only 13.1% (about 100,000 people) is non-Hispanic white. At least some of them are presumably in TX-23 and not TX-16.

It looks like BSB is responding to the fact that the winner has an Irish surname, but that's not relevant to VRA. If there's racially polarized voting in El Paso, than almost definitionally it's not Anglos who are winning.

Very few, if memory serves. The state intentionally drew TX-23 to include El Paso County Hispanics, so they could balance it with Bexar County whites.

Then, a more heavily Hispanic district could be drawn to remedy the reversion. That's what happened in Mississippi in 1984 and Texas in 2002.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario) on May 31, 2012, 12:50:22 PM
Did the winner of the Dem primary not have a majority of the Hispanic vote?

No. The winner had 50.4% of the vote, and a much higher percentage among White voters.

Quote
I'm sure you're well aware that it's the race of the voters, and not the candidate, that is significant for VRA?

No, that is the exact opposite of the Truth. The VRA has two key components. First, that Blacks, and other minorities, can vote. And, second, they can vote for whomever they want, and, not just the preferable/least_objectionable White candidate.

Again, the past practise of the DoJ has been to demand that such districts that revert be "packed" with even more minorities so that a minority candidate wins.

I can't find any links to exit polls, but this district is something like 70-80% Hispanic. O'Rourke must have received a significant portion of the Hispanic vote. Even if he didn't receive a majority of the Hispanic vote, I don't think you could really classify this as "racially polarized voting."


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 31, 2012, 01:32:01 PM
Did the winner of the Dem primary not have a majority of the Hispanic vote?

No. The winner had 50.4% of the vote, and a much higher percentage among White voters.

Quote
I'm sure you're well aware that it's the race of the voters, and not the candidate, that is significant for VRA?

No, that is the exact opposite of the Truth. The VRA has two key components. First, that Blacks, and other minorities, can vote. And, second, they can vote for whomever they want, and, not just the preferable/least_objectionable White candidate.

Again, the past practise of the DoJ has been to demand that such districts that revert be "packed" with even more minorities so that a minority candidate wins.

I can't find any links to exit polls, but this district is something like 70-80% Hispanic. O'Rourke must have received a significant portion of the Hispanic vote. Even if he didn't receive a majority of the Hispanic vote, I don't think you could really classify this as "racially polarized voting."

If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2012, 01:45:57 PM
Again, in 1984 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a White Republican beat a Black Democrat in Mississippi in a VRA district, and 2004 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a Hispanic Republican beat a Hispanic Democrat in a VRA district. So why isn't it "relevant to the VRA" that a White Democrat beat a Hispanic Democratic in a VRA district?

The identity of the candidate doesn't matter.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario) on May 31, 2012, 01:46:52 PM
Did the winner of the Dem primary not have a majority of the Hispanic vote?

No. The winner had 50.4% of the vote, and a much higher percentage among White voters.

Quote
I'm sure you're well aware that it's the race of the voters, and not the candidate, that is significant for VRA?

No, that is the exact opposite of the Truth. The VRA has two key components. First, that Blacks, and other minorities, can vote. And, second, they can vote for whomever they want, and, not just the preferable/least_objectionable White candidate.

Again, the past practise of the DoJ has been to demand that such districts that revert be "packed" with even more minorities so that a minority candidate wins.

I can't find any links to exit polls, but this district is something like 70-80% Hispanic. O'Rourke must have received a significant portion of the Hispanic vote. Even if he didn't receive a majority of the Hispanic vote, I don't think you could really classify this as "racially polarized voting."

If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!

Again, I'd really like to see the exit polls. I don't know what the margins are in this particular case, but the demographics of the district suggest that O'Rourke received at least a substantial minority of Hispanic voters. I contend that it isn't racially polarized voting on the basis that the Hispanic vote was sufficiently divided in such a way as to allow the white Democrat to emerge victorious. My opinion on this may change when and if I see the exit polls.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Deldem on May 31, 2012, 03:10:22 PM
Did the winner of the Dem primary not have a majority of the Hispanic vote?

No. The winner had 50.4% of the vote, and a much higher percentage among White voters.

Quote
I'm sure you're well aware that it's the race of the voters, and not the candidate, that is significant for VRA?

No, that is the exact opposite of the Truth. The VRA has two key components. First, that Blacks, and other minorities, can vote. And, second, they can vote for whomever they want, and, not just the preferable/least_objectionable White candidate.

Again, the past practise of the DoJ has been to demand that such districts that revert be "packed" with even more minorities so that a minority candidate wins.

I can't find any links to exit polls, but this district is something like 70-80% Hispanic. O'Rourke must have received a significant portion of the Hispanic vote. Even if he didn't receive a majority of the Hispanic vote, I don't think you could really classify this as "racially polarized voting."

If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!

Again, I'd really like to see the exit polls. I don't know what the margins are in this particular case, but the demographics of the district suggest that O'Rourke received at least a substantial minority of Hispanic voters. I contend that it isn't racially polarized voting on the basis that the Hispanic vote was sufficiently divided in such a way as to allow the white Democrat to emerge victorious. My opinion on this may change when and if I see the exit polls.

The district as drawn is north of 75% Hispanic VAP. It's possible to draw a roughly 85% Hispanic VAP seat, but it looks real ugly and splits a few counties, and weakens CD-23.

I think the important thing is to see if this continues in future elections. One fluke election isn't enough to throw out an entire seat- otherwise, CD-23 would've been changed years ago. Now, if the preferred candidate of choice continually is defeated, measures might have to be taken, but it's an overreaction if it's done immediately.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 31, 2012, 03:34:03 PM
If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!

The white population in this district is a) small and b) almost certainly Republican-leaning, not participating in the Dem primary.

You have an 80+% Hispanic district in a state where Anglos are overwhelmingly Republican. If this race was 50-50, that means the Hispanic population did not vote uniformly. If the dominant community did not coalesce behind a single candidate, it's impossible to say that they didn't elect the candidate of their choice.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 31, 2012, 07:15:45 PM
Again, in 1984 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a White Republican beat a Black Democrat in Mississippi in a VRA district, and 2004 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a Hispanic Republican beat a Hispanic Democrat in a VRA district. So why isn't it "relevant to the VRA" that a White Democrat beat a Hispanic Democratic in a VRA district?

The identity of the candidate doesn't matter.

Please, "regression" has everything to do with the "identity" of candidate who wins.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 31, 2012, 07:21:57 PM
Did the winner of the Dem primary not have a majority of the Hispanic vote?

No. The winner had 50.4% of the vote, and a much higher percentage among White voters.

Quote
I'm sure you're well aware that it's the race of the voters, and not the candidate, that is significant for VRA?

No, that is the exact opposite of the Truth. The VRA has two key components. First, that Blacks, and other minorities, can vote. And, second, they can vote for whomever they want, and, not just the preferable/least_objectionable White candidate.

Again, the past practise of the DoJ has been to demand that such districts that revert be "packed" with even more minorities so that a minority candidate wins.

I can't find any links to exit polls, but this district is something like 70-80% Hispanic. O'Rourke must have received a significant portion of the Hispanic vote. Even if he didn't receive a majority of the Hispanic vote, I don't think you could really classify this as "racially polarized voting."

If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!

Again, I'd really like to see the exit polls. I don't know what the margins are in this particular case, but the demographics of the district suggest that O'Rourke received at least a substantial minority of Hispanic voters. I contend that it isn't racially polarized voting on the basis that the Hispanic vote was sufficiently divided in such a way as to allow the white Democrat to emerge victorious. My opinion on this may change when and if I see the exit polls.

The district as drawn is north of 75% Hispanic VAP. It's possible to draw a roughly 85% Hispanic VAP seat, but it looks real ugly and splits a few counties, and weakens CD-23.

I think the important thing is to see if this continues in future elections. One fluke election isn't enough to throw out an entire seat- otherwise, CD-23 would've been changed years ago. Now, if the preferred candidate of choice continually is defeated, measures might have to be taken, but it's an overreaction if it's done immediately.

Redistricting hasn't been finalized, yet, for Texas. There is no reason not to comply with the VRA in a timely fashion. The same remedy wasn't delayed in Mississippi, or Texas. They didn't wait to see if Franklin or Bonilla won another election before demanding a remap.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Joe Republic on May 31, 2012, 07:23:40 PM
How does it make any sense to still be deliberating over the maps when the congressional primaries have already taken place?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 31, 2012, 07:33:53 PM
If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!

The white population in this district is a) small and b) almost certainly Republican-leaning, not participating in the Dem primary.

You have an 80+% Hispanic district in a state where Anglos are overwhelmingly Republican. If this race was 50-50, that means the Hispanic population did not vote uniformly. If the dominant community did not coalesce behind a single candidate, it's impossible to say that they didn't elect the candidate of their choice.


By that logic, any district that is 50% + 1 CVAP is VRA compliant because if that majority uniformly chose to register, and vote for the same candidate that majority's candidate would win. That simply isn't how the VRA is enforced, though you seem to be evolving into my position that that is in fact how it should be enforced.

Conseco and O'Rourke won for the same reason: heavy White support combined with a significant minority of Hispanic support. Either something untowards has happened in both cases, or it hasn't.  What he shouldn't happen is that coalition be declared okay for a White Democrat and unacceptable for a Hispanic Republic.

Considering themselves "Republicans" wasn't an obstacle for many Whites in El Paso to request a Democratic primary ballot to vote for O'Rouke.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2012, 07:42:04 PM
How does it make any sense to still be deliberating over the maps when the congressional primaries have already taken place?

The GOP will certainly attempt to have the state map put in place for the 2012 elections with a favorable court ruling. Or of course redistrict in 2013 to take their districts back.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario) on May 31, 2012, 09:16:04 PM
If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!

The white population in this district is a) small and b) almost certainly Republican-leaning, not participating in the Dem primary.

You have an 80+% Hispanic district in a state where Anglos are overwhelmingly Republican. If this race was 50-50, that means the Hispanic population did not vote uniformly. If the dominant community did not coalesce behind a single candidate, it's impossible to say that they didn't elect the candidate of their choice.

Conseco and O'Rourke won for the same reason: heavy White support combined with a significant minority of Hispanic support. Either something untowards has happened in both cases, or it hasn't.  What he shouldn't happen is that coalition be declared okay for a White Democrat and unacceptable for a Hispanic Republic.

Nothing untoward happened in either case. The way I see it, if there is "significant dissent" within the ranks of the minority voters, then it's okay if the "candidate of choice" of the majority of that minority loses in a VRA district. You don't see me complaining about Quico Canseco or Blake Farenthold, do you?

But 50%+1 majority population isn't enough to force what I'd call "significant dissent." I'd suggest that the "candidate of choice" of a unified white electorate would have to receive about 20-30% of the minority vote in order to win in a VRA district over the "candidate of choice" of the minority. Of course, I'd also prioritize communities of interest and compactness over this criterion. Districts like NC-12 shouldn't exist.

Quote
Considering themselves "Republicans" wasn't an obstacle for many Whites in El Paso to request a Democratic primary ballot to vote for O'Rouke.

If there's anything remotely "untoward" about this race, it would be this. But the fact that I oppose open primaries is another issue.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on June 01, 2012, 12:07:44 AM
If Whites voted overwhelming for the White Democrat, and Hispanics voted mostly for the Hispanic Democrat, that seems to be "racially polarized" voting to me!

The white population in this district is a) small and b) almost certainly Republican-leaning, not participating in the Dem primary.

You have an 80+% Hispanic district in a state where Anglos are overwhelmingly Republican. If this race was 50-50, that means the Hispanic population did not vote uniformly. If the dominant community did not coalesce behind a single candidate, it's impossible to say that they didn't elect the candidate of their choice.

Conseco and O'Rourke won for the same reason: heavy White support combined with a significant minority of Hispanic support. Either something untowards has happened in both cases, or it hasn't.  What he shouldn't happen is that coalition be declared okay for a White Democrat and unacceptable for a Hispanic Republic.

Nothing untoward happened in either case. The way I see it, if there is "significant dissent" within the ranks of the minority voters, then it's okay if the "candidate of choice" of the majority of that minority loses in a VRA district. You don't see me complaining about Quico Canseco or Blake Farenthold, do you?

My point is that the DoJ did complain in Mississippi after the 1982 election, and Texas after the 2002 election. If consistency matter to the DoJ, they should complain about TX-16.

Another point is that many of Democratic posters here have claimed that the overall result must, barring extraordinary circumstances, mirror the majority of the protected minority. Nothing extraordinary occured in TX-16. If they take intellectual consistency seriously, they'd object to the outcome as well.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 01, 2012, 07:13:00 AM
How does it make any sense to still be deliberating over the maps when the congressional primaries have already taken place?
So they didn't pass an injunction against using the maps which of course means they'll probably dismiss all suits, but they haven't done that yet.

As to the question - I wouldn't doubt for a minute that what White vote there is in El Paso played a role in fashioning that winning coalition. But it's a bit questionable how much more Hispanics can be packed into the district... and anyways it, cough, borders another rather more marginally Hispanic opportunity district, and no other district whatsoever. So fixing this district would require bumping the 23rd's Hispanic share as well, presumably in San Antonio, and you would hate that. Bottom line: no one with court access has an interest in it, and thus it will not happen.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 01, 2012, 08:02:36 AM
Oh, and of course Lloyd Doggett easily survived yet another attempt by Republicans to replace him with an Hispanic (as was self-evident, really). Though in that case, Doggett presumably had majority support from Hispanics.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on June 01, 2012, 09:08:12 AM
Again, in 1984 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a White Republican beat a Black Democrat in Mississippi in a VRA district, and 2004 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a Hispanic Republican beat a Hispanic Democrat in a VRA district. So why isn't it "relevant to the VRA" that a White Democrat beat a Hispanic Democratic in a VRA district?

The identity of the candidate doesn't matter.

Please, "regression" has everything to do with the "identity" of candidate who wins.

Nope, Gene Green's district has continued to be a protected Hispanic district despite his win. It's not as if the TX map hasn't been amply litigated over that time.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on June 01, 2012, 11:11:20 AM
Again, in 1984 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a White Republican beat a Black Democrat in Mississippi in a VRA district, and 2004 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a Hispanic Republican beat a Hispanic Democrat in a VRA district. So why isn't it "relevant to the VRA" that a White Democrat beat a Hispanic Democratic in a VRA district?

The identity of the candidate doesn't matter.

Please, "regression" has everything to do with the "identity" of candidate who wins.

Nope, Gene Green's district has continued to be a protected Hispanic district despite his win. It's not as if the TX map hasn't been amply litigated over that time.

"Regression" occurs when a district held by the appropriate minority is won by a non-member, usually a White. Gene Green has nothing to do with that definition.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on June 01, 2012, 03:08:33 PM
Again, in 1984 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a White Republican beat a Black Democrat in Mississippi in a VRA district, and 2004 it was "relevant to the VRA" that a Hispanic Republican beat a Hispanic Democrat in a VRA district. So why isn't it "relevant to the VRA" that a White Democrat beat a Hispanic Democratic in a VRA district?

The identity of the candidate doesn't matter.

Please, "regression" has everything to do with the "identity" of candidate who wins.

Nope, Gene Green's district has continued to be a protected Hispanic district despite his win. It's not as if the TX map hasn't been amply litigated over that time.

"Regression" occurs when a district held by the appropriate minority is won by a non-member, usually a White. Gene Green has nothing to do with that definition.

Nope. TN-9 hasn't regressed.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 02, 2012, 06:36:23 AM
Found some exit poll data (for whatever that poll is worth):

Quote
A Coronado High School exit poll conducted by students during early voting and on election day showed Reyes edging O'Rourke among voters identifying themselves as Democrats.

O'Rourke racked up large margins among voters saying they were independents or Republicans, which represented about a third of Democratic primary voters, according to the exit poll.

More than half of voters said they had a poor view of Congress, and more than two-thirds of such voters cast their votes for O'Rourke, the exit poll said.

About two-thirds of voters said they were Hispanic, and they favored Reyes by almost 9 percentage points. But O'Rourke carried the non-Hispanic vote by almost 50 points, according to the poll results.

The exit poll of more than 900 Democratic primary voters had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Source: El Paso Times (http://www.elpasotimes.com/election/ci_20736581/16th-congressional-district-race-beto-orourke-ousts-eight-term-u-s-rep-silvestre-reyes)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 02, 2012, 06:46:53 AM
Ooh, neat (http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_20747155/west-side-voter-turnout-inattention-cost-reyes).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 02, 2012, 10:45:52 AM
How does it make any sense to still be deliberating over the maps when the congressional primaries have already taken place?
So they didn't pass an injunction against using the maps which of course means they'll probably dismiss all suits, but they haven't done that yet.

As to the question - I wouldn't doubt for a minute that what White vote there is in El Paso played a role in fashioning that winning coalition. But it's a bit questionable how much more Hispanics can be packed into the district... and anyways it, cough, borders another rather more marginally Hispanic opportunity district, and no other district whatsoever. So fixing this district would require bumping the 23rd's Hispanic share as well, presumably in San Antonio, and you would hate that. Bottom line: no one with court access has an interest in it, and thus it will not happen.



Well, the DOJ claims that TX-23 is not a performing district, anyway. Swapping TX-16 whites for TX-23 Hispanics would merely explicitly affirm that status.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 06, 2012, 09:36:58 AM
BTW, El Paso County, TX has more than the population of a congressional district but of that population, 82.2% is Hispanic. Only 13.1% (about 100,000 people) is non-Hispanic white. At least some of them are presumably in TX-23 and not TX-16.

It looks like BSB is responding to the fact that the winner has an Irish surname, but that's not relevant to VRA. If there's racially polarized voting in El Paso, than almost definitionally it's not Anglos who are winning.

Very few, if memory serves. The state intentionally drew TX-23 to include El Paso County Hispanics, so they could balance it with Bexar County whites.

Bexar County whites are much preferred for Quico Canseco.
The line drawing in El Paso County was definitely related to TX-23.  The legislative plan, which in El Paso County is the same as the court-ordered plan, has an area in El Paso County that is 96.3% Hispanic; the vacated interim plan has made the El Paso County portion 75.5%.  The result dropped the Hispanic percentage of TX-16 by 3%.

The legislature plan has a very simple straight line boundary which comes up along I-10 in the Rio Grande Valley below the city of El Paso; while the interim court plan comes up over the north part of the city.  By dropping 20,000 Hispanics in El Paso County, they had to be made up elsewhere which rationalized their radical rejiggering of Bexar County.

Given the narrowness of O'Rourke's victory, it is quite likely that Reyes had majority support among Hispanic's.   I wouldn't be surprised that this election would be added as evidence in the redistricting case.   Dropping the district from 83% to 80% was obviously done with racist intent.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 06, 2012, 10:03:25 AM
How does it make any sense to still be deliberating over the maps when the congressional primaries have already taken place?
The primaries were thrown out in both 1996 and 2006.

The last time Texas used the same districts for an entire decade was 1892-1900.

The curiosity is that the DC Circuit Court has not issued there decision on Section 5 preclearance.   Surely Section 5 is unworkable if judicial preclearance takes a year.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on June 06, 2012, 11:45:23 AM
BTW, El Paso County, TX has more than the population of a congressional district but of that population, 82.2% is Hispanic. Only 13.1% (about 100,000 people) is non-Hispanic white. At least some of them are presumably in TX-23 and not TX-16.

It looks like BSB is responding to the fact that the winner has an Irish surname, but that's not relevant to VRA. If there's racially polarized voting in El Paso, than almost definitionally it's not Anglos who are winning.

Very few, if memory serves. The state intentionally drew TX-23 to include El Paso County Hispanics, so they could balance it with Bexar County whites.

Bexar County whites are much preferred for Quico Canseco.
The line drawing in El Paso County was definitely related to TX-23.  The legislative plan, which in El Paso County is the same as the court-ordered plan, has an area in El Paso County that is 96.3% Hispanic; the vacated interim plan has made the El Paso County portion 75.5%.  The result dropped the Hispanic percentage of TX-16 by 3%.

The legislature plan has a very simple straight line boundary which comes up along I-10 in the Rio Grande Valley below the city of El Paso; while the interim court plan comes up over the north part of the city.  By dropping 20,000 Hispanics in El Paso County, they had to be made up elsewhere which rationalized their radical rejiggering of Bexar County.

Given the narrowness of O'Rourke's victory, it is quite likely that Reyes had majority support among Hispanic's.   I wouldn't be surprised that this election would be added as evidence in the redistricting case.   Dropping the district from 83% to 80% was obviously done with racist intent.


Does O'Rouke's victory mean that all MALDEF has to show for its ligitation is the loss of one Hispanic Democratic Congressman?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 06, 2012, 02:30:31 PM
Does O'Rouke's victory mean that all MALDEF has to show for its ligitation is the loss of one Hispanic Democratic Congressman?
They will show that Reyes is the Hispanic "candidate of choice" and that bloc voting by whites denied him renomination, and that in the past a "coalition" would vote for the Democrat in the general election.

This was the logical of the USDOJ in Kinston, NC.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on June 07, 2012, 04:10:38 AM
Does O'Rouke's victory mean that all MALDEF has to show for its ligitation is the loss of one Hispanic Democratic Congressman?
They will show that Reyes is the Hispanic "candidate of choice" and that bloc voting by whites denied him renomination, and that in the past a "coalition" would vote for the Democrat in the general election.
And in the future. Incidentally, O'Rourke got ~45% of the Hispanic vote according to that exit poll (hardly not a Hispanic candidate of choice as well, then) and still wouldn't have won if it wasn't for the unusually large turnout gap (which is of course the troubling/creating-a-genuine-issue part.)
In the unlikely case that it happens again exactly like that in 2014... the Hispanic candidate has a legitimate point.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on August 01, 2012, 09:18:30 AM
Texas 33rd goes 53% for Veasey (black) and Garcia (Hispanic).

http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/results/july31_163_race5.htm


http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20120801-veasey-defeats-garcia-in-new-33rd-congressional-district.ece

“Veasey did not play in Dallas like we all thought he would,” said Dallas political consultant Vinny Minchillo. “He stuck with the Fort Worth, predominantly black vote and won. ”


Garcia also waited too long to try to fire up Hispanic voters. In the last week of the campaign, he said 1.5 million Hispanics in North Texas were without representation in Congress.




Certainly Hispanics in TX-33 are not able to elect their candidate of choice in this district. This district has 84000 blacks and 287000 hispanics.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on August 01, 2012, 11:34:30 AM
Certainly Hispanics in TX-33 are not able to elect their candidate of choice in this district. This district has 84000 blacks and 287000 hispanics.

With only 30,000 votes cast, it appears that neither candidate was the candidate of their choice. That would be "none of the above." 

This is an interesting situation.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on August 02, 2012, 01:17:30 AM
Certainly Hispanics in TX-33 are not able to elect their candidate of choice in this district. This district has 84000 blacks and 287000 hispanics.

With only 30,000 votes cast, it appears that neither candidate was the candidate of their choice. That would be "none of the above." 

This is an interesting situation.
20,412 which was an increase from 18,868 in the primary.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on August 02, 2012, 08:54:21 AM
Certainly Hispanics in TX-33 are not able to elect their candidate of choice in this district. This district has 84000 blacks and 287000 hispanics.

With only 30,000 votes cast, it appears that neither candidate was the candidate of their choice. That would be "none of the above." 

This is an interesting situation.
20,412 which was an increase from 18,868 in the primary.

Looks like I double counted the early votes. Wow, that's horrible turnout.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Miles on August 02, 2012, 10:40:46 AM
Changing topic, some, but just by looking at the new 36th, it seems like would be a good chance for Jon Turner to make a comeback. The core of his old 2nd is there, but it also contains eastern Harris county, which would probably be quite hostile.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on August 02, 2012, 02:11:50 PM
Certainly Hispanics in TX-33 are not able to elect their candidate of choice in this district. This district has 84000 blacks and 287000 hispanics.

With only 30,000 votes cast, it appears that neither candidate was the candidate of their choice. That would be "none of the above." 

This is an interesting situation.
20,412 which was an increase from 18,868 in the primary.

I wonder how many of those were outside Veasey's Tarrant County house district.


Veasey, in one of the more amusing claims of the year, claims that Ted Cruz and the Republican party does not represent 'mainstream' Texas. I wonder how he came to that conclusion as Cruz will possibly hit 60% and is guaranteed 55%.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on August 05, 2012, 02:48:18 AM
Changing topic, some, but just by looking at the new 36th, it seems like would be a good chance for Jon Turner to make a comeback. The core of his old 2nd is there, but it also contains eastern Harris county, which would probably be quite hostile.

Jim Turner?  The district is about 10% more Republican than the State, and 1/3 of the district is in Harris County.  There is a reason that there were 12 Republican candidates and 1 Democrat in the primary.

Turner is also from Crockett which is north of the district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on August 28, 2012, 05:35:40 PM
The federal district court in DC has denied preclearance to the the legislative enacted plans. Whether a plan is precleared is a true/false decision.  Part of a plan can not be precleared - even though preclearance invariable depends on specific area of a map.   And a court drawing a a plan is still required to defer to legislative policy choices to the extent that is practicable and constitutional.

Presumably, the SA district court will now go ahead and issue its ruling.  It is too late to draw a new map, and a map drawn by a federal court does not need preclearance.  So its remedial plans will be used for 2012.   It might ask for additional briefing to decide whether its plan would have been pre-cleared, and it might realize that it is wasted effort at this point.  The legislature has every right to produce a new plan.  The DC court decision will be appealed possibly directly to the SCOTUS, including a direct challenge to Section 5.  Judicial preclearance is clearly unworkable if the only options are accepting the diktats of a federal bureaucracy or have to have another court step in in order to have other elections.

 Texas v United States  (https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2011cv1303-230)

Congressional Plan:

Everyone agrees that TX-34 replaces TX-27 (Fahrenthold) as being a minority ability to elect district.  The numbering switch simply lets a court to opine for a few more paragraphs.

The court was decisive in that demographic data could not be used to determine whether a district was a minority ability to elect district (unless it is overwhelmingly so).  Instead, a functional analysis (based on election results) should be used.

The court seems to think endogenous results (based on results in a current district), even though this is useless for hypothetical districts.  Exogenous results are based on other elections, typically statewide races.  This can be used for both existing and hypothetical districts.

So it does not matter that the HCVAP for TX-23 (Canseco) was increased under the legislature plan.  TX-23 does not consistently elect the Hispanic candidate of choice in exogenous elections, so the court seemed to prefer the 3 elections held on the 2006 boundaries, one of which Ciro Rodriguez lost, and one of which he would have likely lost if it had been held as a regular election.   The court also found that the legislature deliberately included Hispanic voters who were more likely to vote for a Republican, thereby denying other Hispanic voters the opportunity to vote for the candidate of their choice.

The court split on whether the TX-25 (Doggett) is currently a minority ability to elect district, but agreed that TX-35 the new San Antonio-Austin district was.

So excluding TX-25, it is a new minority districts TX-34 and TX-25, and former districts TX-23 and TX-27, for no net change.  But the court in another split decision found that an additional district should have been drawn due to the increase from 32 to 36 representatives.

The court also made a finding of discriminatory intent, largely based on self-serving testimony by Democrat representatives.   Al Green (TX-9) claimed that the legislature took, "The Medical Center, Astrodome, rail line, and Houston Baptist University" out of his district, and that they would not have done that to a white Congressman.  In fact, Green retained some of the Medical Center, and Culberson (TX-7) was removed from the Medical Center as it was transferred to Jackson Lee (TX-18).  The Astrodome is likely going to be torn down.  Green only had the tail end of the rail line, and HBU can't really be considered a key economic institution.  It also moved his office out of his district, but it is on the very edge of the district, and not necessarily convenient to anyone.

Jackson Lee also had her district office moved out of her district, but it was shifted to TX-29 (Gene Green).  Her office is in the federal building downtown.  Very few people live downtown and it was just an adjustment made to balance population and make it easier to fit in TX-36 and the modified TX-2.   I see no reason why a district office has to be in a congressional district and it would be just as convenient as it is now.   Currently the office is on the edge of the district.  Because it is on a one-way street, you would have to leave the district when driving away.  It would be 1/2 block outside the district under the new map.

Presumably, the interim plan with the inclusion of the revised TX-33 would have complied with Section 5, unless the SA court had a flawed understanding of whether its TX-23 retrogressed.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on August 30, 2012, 11:26:08 AM
For the Senate plan, the court found that SD-10 was not a protected district. It was noted that Wendy Davis relied on an extremely high 26% support from Anglos to win the district in the first place.


Incidentally, the Court seems to have upheld Pena's district as an ability district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on August 30, 2012, 12:54:09 PM
For the Senate plan, the court found that SD-10 was not a protected district. It was noted that Wendy Davis relied on an extremely high 26% support from Anglos to win the district in the first place.

Incidentally, the Court seems to have upheld Pena's district as an ability district.
The court's decision on the senate plan provides an additional basis for a direct challenge to Section 5.  Pages 46 to 51 essentially conclude that Texas has failed to demonstrate that they had not engaged in thought crimes.

They really had no choice on Pena's district, though it might be challenged on equal protection grounds.  There is really a pretty big variation in population which is not justifiable for political purposes (you can't deliberately underpopulate Republican districts, while you can justify variation due to conformance to political boundaries, natural or artificial features, etc.

There must have been interesting communication between the two district courts.  Texas requires the Secretary of State to set the final list of candidates for the November general election by August 27.   The DC court filed their decision on August 28.  The DC decision means that Texas can not use the districts passed by the legislature.  But they weren't going to be used, because of the interim boundaries crafted by the SA court, and now elections based on that map have been finalized.

Yapping Dog LULAC filed a motion with the SA court demanding an immediate status conference.  The SA district court responded with an order setting the status conference for tomorrow, and then added:

Quote from: SA District Court Perez v Texas

This court's understanding of the status of this litigation is as follows:

1. The 2012 general election is proceeding and will be conducted in accordance with this court's interim plans.

2. On August 28, the District Court for the District of Columbia issued a three-judge order denying preclearance. The state has publicly announced that it will file a direct appeal of that ruling. This Court does not presently intend to exercise its authority to remedy the Section 5 violations found by the D.C. Court until all appeals to the United States Supreme Court have been exhausted.

Any Plaintiff who contemplates arguing that the Court’s interim plans may not be used to conduct the November general election must be prepared to present statutory or caselaw in support of any such argument.  The court will permit discussion of any matter that any party wishes to raise. In fairness, however, any such party should file an advisory in advance,
to alert the court and other parties as to what matters might be presented.

It appears that it is the intent of the SA Court to wait until after the Supreme Court makes it ruling on the Section 5 appeal before it issues its opinion.   Which means that Section 5 has prevented Texas from holding its own elections, and also prevented aggrieved plaintiffs from getting relief.

Were there not Section 5, the SA court would have issued their ruling last November and it would have been under appeal.

Texas was correct to take its case to the US Supreme Court because it prevented an out of control district judge who happens to be a former Texas legislator and brother-in-law of a current legislature of drawing new maps out of whole cloth.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on August 30, 2012, 01:13:24 PM
The DC district court has issued an order on the constitutional challenge to Section 5

"FURTHER ORDERED that the parties shall meet and confer and submit a joint proposed schedule on Claim Two (Texas’s claim that Section 5 is unconstitutional) by no later than September 13, 2012."

I don't know whether this means that Texas's appeal on the actual pre-clearance will wait on the opinion on the Section 5 procedure itself.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: muon2 on August 30, 2012, 04:41:32 PM
As I read the opinion I was struck at the number of times the decision pointed out the differences between sec 5 and sec 2 so they could come to their conclusions. That may also be something that gives SCOTUS pause. I also found the dissent on CD 25 far more compelling than the majority from a methodological viewpoint.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on August 30, 2012, 08:11:20 PM
As I read the opinion I was struck at the number of times the decision pointed out the differences between sec 5 and sec 2 so they could come to their conclusions. That may also be something that gives SCOTUS pause. I also found the dissent on CD 25 far more compelling than the majority from a methodological viewpoint.

The dissenting judge noted that the logic used would protect any and every district where Democrats get 50% of the vote.

As an aside, will LULAC be arguing that the interim map's TX-33 when LULAC and Hispanic preferred candidate Garcia had his district captured by Marc Veasey? I wonder.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on August 31, 2012, 10:19:34 AM
As I read the opinion I was struck at the number of times the decision pointed out the differences between sec 5 and sec 2 so they could come to their conclusions. That may also be something that gives SCOTUS pause. I also found the dissent on CD 25 far more compelling than the majority from a methodological viewpoint.

This is the type of evidence used by that opinion:

Quote from: Texas v USA, majority opinion on TX-25
Representative Dukes provided specific examples of elections to support her analysis of minority groups’ voting power in CD 25. She recalled the 2008 election for Travis County Tax Assessor, in which the African-American supported by the coalition successfully defeated, with 74% of the vote, an Anglo male “progressive Democrat.”

Nelda Wells Spears was the tax assessor-collector for nearly 20 years.   In Texas, it is traditional to write the checks for taxes to the name of the county tax assessor, with or without their title, so:

"Nelda Spears" or "Nelda Spears Travis County Tax Assessor" rather than "Travis County" or "Travis County Tax Assessor".   Vehicle registration in Texas is handled by the counties, so that anyone who owned a home or a car in Travis County had likely written a check to the office.   So the incumbent has higher name recognition than you would otherwise expect for the office.

She was facing Glen Maxey, the first openly gay Texas legislator, who was recently elected as the LGBT member of the DNC.   In Texas, the Tax Assessor-Collector is also the voter registrar (a legacy of when the the office collected the poll tax).  Maxey felt it was the key job of the office to lobby the legislature on voter registration and other matters, rather than run a professional office that handles millions of dollars and 100s of 1000s of transactions.

In the 2008 primary, Dukes herself was challenged as being a Craddick D, a Democrat who had been appointed a committee chair and supported Craddick.  I think she was the only Craddick D who survived a primary challenge, and she did so by emphasizing that he did was what was in the best interest of her (Black) constituents, rather than kowtowing to the Democratic party elite (in a 79% Obama district).

Spears herself carried every precinct in Travis County, but a tiny one that Maxey carried on a 1:0 vote, and he managed to get above 40% in just a few precincts.  Because Spears was above 90% in some precincts vs 74% countywide, does that prove Blacks are essential to victory of a Democrat, or simply that they are even more likely to vote for a long-time county incumbent who is Black, particularly when they may feel that the Democratic elite are trying to knock off their representative in the same primary, than other voters.

Spears retired in 2011, and in the 2012 primary endorsed a long time deputy, serving as his campaign treasurer.

 Spears endorses Wilson (http://www.stanleyjwilson.com/endorsements/)

He lost with 25% of the vote to an Anglo male.   There was more of a mix of results.  While Wilson did not win any precincts with 90% of the vote, he did win some with substantial majorities.  

The 2008 race was coincident with the presidential primary, which had 4.4 times as many votes (Obama carried Travis County with 63%, while losing statewide to Clinton).


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on August 31, 2012, 05:32:20 PM
LULAC attempted to throw a hail mary to get the judges to re-enact plan C220 (this was the original San Antonio Court plan that was tossed at the SCOTUS).


The San Antonio Court has declined citing the timeline. Thus, elections will proceed under plan C235.


C185 is thus scrapped, and will almost certainly be moot in 2013 when the legislature returns to do redistricting.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on August 31, 2012, 07:13:24 PM
LULAC attempted to throw a hail mary to get the judges to re-enact plan C220 (this was the original San Antonio Court plan that was tossed at the SCOTUS).

The San Antonio Court has declined citing the timeline. Thus, elections will proceed under plan C235.

C185 is thus scrapped, and will almost certainly be moot in 2013 when the legislature returns to do redistricting.
Texas has appealed the redistricting decision to the Supreme Court.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on September 01, 2012, 03:51:58 AM
The San Antonio Court has declined citing the timeline. Thus, elections will proceed under plan C235.


C185 is thus scrapped, and will almost certainly be moot in 2013 when the legislature returns to do redistricting.
Are these respectively the lines used in the primary and the map passed by the state lege?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on September 01, 2012, 08:25:04 AM
The San Antonio Court has declined citing the timeline. Thus, elections will proceed under plan C235.


C185 is thus scrapped, and will almost certainly be moot in 2013 when the legislature returns to do redistricting.
Are these respectively the lines used in the primary and the map passed by the state lege?

C220 - San Antonio initial plan
C185 - Legislature map
C235 - Court map based on lege


C235 takes C185, builds the Veasey district, and makes minor tweaks elsewhere.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on September 01, 2012, 08:28:02 AM
The San Antonio Court has declined citing the timeline. Thus, elections will proceed under plan C235.


C185 is thus scrapped, and will almost certainly be moot in 2013 when the legislature returns to do redistricting.
Are these respectively the lines used in the primary and the map passed by the state lege?

C220 - San Antonio initial plan
C185 - Legislature map
C235 - Court map based on lege


C235 takes C185, builds the Veasey district, and makes minor tweaks elsewhere.
Yeah, I remember their relationship to each other, I just don't memorize official names/numbers. :)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 01, 2012, 10:03:51 PM
The San Antonio Court has declined citing the timeline. Thus, elections will proceed under plan C235.

C185 is thus scrapped, and will almost certainly be moot in 2013 when the legislature returns to do redistricting.
Are these respectively the lines used in the primary and the map passed by the state lege?

C220 - San Antonio initial plan
C185 - Legislature map
C235 - Court map based on lege


C235 takes C185, builds the Veasey district, and makes minor tweaks elsewhere.
Yeah, I remember their relationship to each other, I just don't memorize official names/numbers. :)

 Texas Legislative Council - Redistricting  (http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/redist/redist.htm)

 Michael Li's Texas redistricting blog  (http://txredistricting.org/)

 US Redistricting  (http://redistrictingonline.org/Home_Page.html)


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sol on May 27, 2013, 06:21:33 PM
It appears that TX may re-redistrict soon.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20130527-breaking-news-governor-announces-special-texas-legislature-session-on-redistricting.ece


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 28, 2013, 07:39:13 AM
The description of the session makes it sound as if they'll ratify the current districts.
Does that sound plausible?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Sol on May 28, 2013, 10:24:10 AM
The description of the session makes it sound as if they'll ratify the current districts.
Does that sound plausible?
My understanding is that the current districts may be a little more Democratic friendly that the TXGOP likes it, as they were drawn by the courts. I could be wrong though.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on May 28, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
Quote
The special session will consider the following issue:

Legislation which ratifies and adopts the interim redistricting plans ordered by the federal district court as the permanent plans for districts used to elect members of the Texas House of Representatives, Texas Senate and United States House of Representatives.
That's pretty clearcut, and the maps are of course ones drawn by Republicans, as emended by the courts, as opposed to actual court-drawn maps. A new even more Republican map will inevitably come under close court scrutiny yet again.

Whether all of the Texas House and Senate Republican caucus see things the same way is another matter entirely.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 28, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
The description of the session makes it sound as if they'll ratify the current districts.
Does that sound plausible?
The governor's call says:

"Legislation which ratifies and adopts the interim redistricting plans ordered by the federal district court as the permanent plans for districts used to elect members of the Texas House of Representatives, Texas Senate and United States House of Representatives."

A literal interpretation would say that the only legislation that could be considered are the interim maps.  I doubt that would stand up to a separation of powers challenge.  Otherwise, a governor could draft bills and say pass this.  And of course a legislature may not bind a future legislature, so a plan could not be permanent.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 13, 2013, 12:25:32 PM
These maps passed the Senate committee.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 25, 2013, 01:44:47 PM
Quote
The special session will consider the following issue:

Legislation which ratifies and adopts the interim redistricting plans ordered by the federal district court as the permanent plans for districts used to elect members of the Texas House of Representatives, Texas Senate and United States House of Representatives.
That's pretty clearcut, and the maps are of course ones drawn by Republicans, as emended by the courts, as opposed to actual court-drawn maps. A new even more Republican map will inevitably come under close court scrutiny yet again.

Whether all of the Texas House and Senate Republican caucus see things the same way is another matter entirely.


Gov. Rick Perry could decide to veto voting maps recently completed by the Texas Legislature as a result of today's decision from the Supreme Court, calling a new special session and allowing conservatives to pass new maps that would have not passed under the now defunct Section 4 of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.




There is some discussion that the maps passed by the legislature in 2011 are now immediately in effect until Rick Perry decides to sign the interim maps into permanent maps.

The difference is a handful of House districts, 1 congressional district, and perhaps 1 Senate district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Torie on June 25, 2013, 02:29:22 PM
Quote
The special session will consider the following issue:

Legislation which ratifies and adopts the interim redistricting plans ordered by the federal district court as the permanent plans for districts used to elect members of the Texas House of Representatives, Texas Senate and United States House of Representatives.
That's pretty clearcut, and the maps are of course ones drawn by Republicans, as emended by the courts, as opposed to actual court-drawn maps. A new even more Republican map will inevitably come under close court scrutiny yet again.

Whether all of the Texas House and Senate Republican caucus see things the same way is another matter entirely.


Gov. Rick Perry could decide to veto voting maps recently completed by the Texas Legislature as a result of today's decision from the Supreme Court, calling a new special session and allowing conservatives to pass new maps that would have not passed under the now defunct Section 4 of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.




There is some discussion that the maps passed by the legislature in 2011 are now immediately in effect until Rick Perry decides to sign the interim maps into permanent maps.

The difference is a handful of House districts, 1 congressional district, and perhaps 1 Senate district.

TX-23 still needs to be 50% Hispanic CVAP does it not?  Did the 2011 map meet that number?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 25, 2013, 02:37:26 PM
Quote
The special session will consider the following issue:

Legislation which ratifies and adopts the interim redistricting plans ordered by the federal district court as the permanent plans for districts used to elect members of the Texas House of Representatives, Texas Senate and United States House of Representatives.
That's pretty clearcut, and the maps are of course ones drawn by Republicans, as emended by the courts, as opposed to actual court-drawn maps. A new even more Republican map will inevitably come under close court scrutiny yet again.

Whether all of the Texas House and Senate Republican caucus see things the same way is another matter entirely.


Gov. Rick Perry could decide to veto voting maps recently completed by the Texas Legislature as a result of today's decision from the Supreme Court, calling a new special session and allowing conservatives to pass new maps that would have not passed under the now defunct Section 4 of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.




There is some discussion that the maps passed by the legislature in 2011 are now immediately in effect until Rick Perry decides to sign the interim maps into permanent maps.

The difference is a handful of House districts, 1 congressional district, and perhaps 1 Senate district.

TX-23 still needs to be 50% Hispanic CVAP does it not?  Did the 2011 map meet that number?


Yes, sir.


Link (http://gis1.tlc.state.tx.us/download/Congress/PLANC185r202.pdf)

Incidentally, SSVR is higher than TX-29. The difference is that the others are Anglos in TX-23 and blacks in TX-29.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 26, 2013, 09:44:34 PM
TX-23 still needs to be 50% Hispanic CVAP does it not?  Did the 2011 map meet that number?

The 2011 Texas map had 54.5% SSVR.  The first federal judiciary map (struck down by the SCOTUS) had 52.2% SSVR.  The final interim federal judiciary map (and now Texas map) has 55.1% SSVR.  It has an estimated 61.1% CVAP.

As Quico Conseco noted, they removed Hispanic voters, and replaced them with Blacks and Anglos who were more likely to vote for the Hispanic "candidate of choice".


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on June 26, 2013, 09:45:59 PM
Quote
The special session will consider the following issue:

Legislation which ratifies and adopts the interim redistricting plans ordered by the federal district court as the permanent plans for districts used to elect members of the Texas House of Representatives, Texas Senate and United States House of Representatives.
That's pretty clearcut, and the maps are of course ones drawn by Republicans, as emended by the courts, as opposed to actual court-drawn maps. A new even more Republican map will inevitably come under close court scrutiny yet again.

Whether all of the Texas House and Senate Republican caucus see things the same way is another matter entirely.

Gov. Rick Perry could decide to veto voting maps recently completed by the Texas Legislature as a result of today's decision from the Supreme Court, calling a new special session and allowing conservatives to pass new maps that would have not passed under the now defunct Section 4 of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

There is some discussion that the maps passed by the legislature in 2011 are now immediately in effect until Rick Perry decides to sign the interim maps into permanent maps.

The difference is a handful of House districts, 1 congressional district, and perhaps 1 Senate district.
Perry has signed the maps passed by the legislature.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on June 27, 2013, 01:13:03 PM
http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/062713zr_c0nd.pdf



The denial of preclearance to Texas redistricting, and to voter ID, has been tossed, and the judgments against Texas have been vacated in light of Shelby v Holder.




Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on July 01, 2013, 08:19:55 PM
http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/062713zr_c0nd.pdf



The denial of preclearance to Texas redistricting, and to voter ID, has been tossed, and the judgments against Texas have been vacated in light of Shelby v Holder.





Link (http://txredistricting.org/)



San Antonio court starts process for deciding if Texas should preclear maps under section 3 of Voting Rights Act

The request to rule on the 2011 maps seemed to confuse the court at first, with the judges asking on several occasions why they shouldn’t just review the 2013 maps. But after several exchanges - and a recess - they reached at least an informal consensus that the section 3 issues should be addressed.

The State of Texas had sought to have the case dismissed, arguing that the 2011 maps were moot. However, the court denied the state’s motion to dismiss without prejudice.





The Supreme Court might be stepping in again, soon, as, in the prior order, the Supreme Court made a 'suggestion' that the 2011 maps and case were moot.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on July 02, 2013, 01:29:35 PM
Wait, what? What are they playing at?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on July 02, 2013, 02:10:01 PM

The plaintiffs are trying to use this section 3 'bail-in' provision to reinstate section V preclearance. It's been used sporadically over the years in other non Section IV places like Arkansas for limited time frames.

Specifically, they are trying to use claims of discrimination of the old, defunct, repealed 2011 maps (which never had any elections under them) to invalidate the 2013 maps, which are of course identical to the 2012 maps.

The state is simply trying to toss everything regarding the 2011 maps.

The Supreme Court stated the following on June 27, 1 day after Rick Perry signed the new maps.

TEXAS V. UNITED STATES, ET AL.
The judgment is vacated, and the case is remanded to the
United States District Court for the District of Columbia for
 further consideration in light of Shelby County v. Holder, 570
U.S. ___ (2013), and the suggestion of mootness of appellees
Wendy Davis, et al.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: minionofmidas on July 04, 2013, 07:32:03 AM
The state is simply trying to toss everything regarding the 2011 maps.
Which is reasonable given that the maps themselves have been tossed.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on September 08, 2013, 09:15:45 AM
Texas 2014 elections will proceed on schedule with the maps passed by the Texas legislature.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on September 10, 2013, 09:20:58 AM
The complaint alleges that changes to the map made in a floor amendment diluted the voter strength of Hispanic voters in the district - a Hispanic opportunity district long represented by State Rep. Lon Burnam - by adding the heavily African-American Como neighborhood back into the district (where it had been prior to 2011).

To accomodate that change, the complaint says the amendment “moves 4,397 individuals out of interim HD 90 and places them into HD 99.” The net effect, according to the complaint, was to reduce Spanish surname voter registration in the district from 51.1% to 50.1%. Meanwhile, the citizen voting age African-American population of the district went from 16.2% to 18.6%.*

The Latino Task Force argues that the changes were made primarily on the basis of race to protect Burnam (an Anglo Democrat), who survived a primary challenge from a Latino candidate in 2012 by a razor thin 159 votes.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on September 10, 2013, 10:53:04 AM
The complaint alleges that changes to the map made in a floor amendment diluted the voter strength of Hispanic voters in the district - a Hispanic opportunity district long represented by State Rep. Lon Burnam - by adding the heavily African-American Como neighborhood back into the district (where it had been prior to 2011).

To accomodate that change, the complaint says the amendment “moves 4,397 individuals out of interim HD 90 and places them into HD 99.” The net effect, according to the complaint, was to reduce Spanish surname voter registration in the district from 51.1% to 50.1%. Meanwhile, the citizen voting age African-American population of the district went from 16.2% to 18.6%.*

The Latino Task Force argues that the changes were made primarily on the basis of race to protect Burnam (an Anglo Democrat), who survived a primary challenge from a Latino candidate in 2012 by a razor thin 159 votes.
I'm sure the Republicans wanted to protect Burnam.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 25, 2017, 08:18:35 PM
So the state of Texas has decided that there will be no redistricting!


My view is that they should redistrict to fortify TX-07 and TX-32 and draw challengers out. TX-27 shall be a district connecting Nueces County to the populations in Eastern Bexar County. TX-35 shall simply be parts of Travis County.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 26, 2017, 09:00:14 AM
So the state of Texas has decided that there will be no [legislative-driven] redistricting!

Excellent news. The federal judges may have the opportunity to draw a fair map.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 26, 2017, 10:10:46 AM
So the state of Texas has decided that there will be no [legislative-driven] redistricting!
Excellent news. The federal judges may have the opportunity to draw a fair map.
The federal judges drew the current map which has been used for the 2012, 2014, and 2016 elections.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: BigSkyBob on May 26, 2017, 10:34:32 AM
The legislature should take the opportunity to end the baconmander in South Texas. Just make one district from the Northern edges, and fatten the bases. Compactness, not race, would be the motivating factor.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 27, 2017, 07:49:42 AM
The legislature should take the opportunity...


The legislature is passing on redistricting. If any maps are drawn, it will be by the federal courts.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Nyvin on May 27, 2017, 09:16:27 AM
So the state of Texas has decided that there will be no [legislative-driven] redistricting!
Excellent news. The federal judges may have the opportunity to draw a fair map.
The federal judges drew the current map which has been used for the 2012, 2014, and 2016 elections.

Which they struck down...


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: JerryArkansas on May 27, 2017, 09:53:26 AM
So the state of Texas has decided that there will be no [legislative-driven] redistricting!
Excellent news. The federal judges may have the opportunity to draw a fair map.
The federal judges drew the current map which has been used for the 2012, 2014, and 2016 elections.

Which they struck down...
No, they struck down the maps the legislator drew in 2011.  But the courts did use several of those districts in the map they drew, which one or two were thrown out.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on May 28, 2017, 12:03:28 PM
The legislature should take the opportunity...


The legislature is passing on redistricting. If any maps are drawn, it will be by the federal courts.

So we'll probably have court-drawn maps for 2018, no?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 28, 2017, 02:45:14 PM
The legislature should take the opportunity...
The legislature is passing on redistricting. If any maps are drawn, it will be by the federal courts.
Any map drawn by a federal court must be consistent with what the legislature has drawn. Don't you remember in 2012 when the SCOTUS struck down the map drawn by the federal judges?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 28, 2017, 04:52:52 PM
So the state of Texas has decided that there will be no [legislative-driven] redistricting!
Excellent news. The federal judges may have the opportunity to draw a fair map.
The federal judges drew the current map which has been used for the 2012, 2014, and 2016 elections.

Which they struck down...
When did they do that?




Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 28, 2017, 05:05:52 PM
The legislature should take the opportunity...


The legislature is passing on redistricting. If any maps are drawn, it will be by the federal courts.

So we'll probably have court-drawn maps for 2018, no?
There has not been a trial yet. If the court has already prepared maps, that would be a violation of due process, no?

The trial on the maps that were imposed by the court in 2012, ratified by the legislature in 2013, and used in 2012, 2014, and 2016 is scheduled for this summer.

The court asked if Texas wanted to draw yet another set of maps - perhaps so they wouldn't have to rule on the legality of the maps that they imposed. Remember that one judge on the three-judge panel says that once they ruled on the 2011 maps, the case should have been closed. There is a possibility that the court no longer has jurisdiction. On appeal to the SCOTUS that will be an issue.

In any event, Texas would be expected to draw a new map pre-assuming what the decision of a trial court will be for what has not yet been tried. Given the appeal to the SCOTUS it is not clear whether that can be done before 2018. Perhaps 2020.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 29, 2017, 08:17:01 AM
Jim, your disagreement is with the Republicans in the TX legislature who fear the courts will fix TX's Congressional map if they don't draw a legally passable map themselves. I'm struggling to reconcile their worry with your posts.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/25/texas-republicans-congress-hope-special-session/


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 29, 2017, 12:16:52 PM
Jim, your disagreement is with the Republicans in the TX legislature who fear the courts will fix TX's Congressional map if they don't draw a legally passable map themselves. I'm struggling to reconcile their worry with your posts.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/25/texas-republicans-congress-hope-special-session/

Huh? Did you read the article?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 29, 2017, 05:22:14 PM
Jim, your disagreement is with the Republicans in the TX legislature who fear the courts will fix TX's Congressional map if they don't draw a legally passable map themselves. I'm struggling to reconcile their worry with your posts.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/25/texas-republicans-congress-hope-special-session/

Huh? Did you read the article?


I encourage you to read the article, Jim.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 29, 2017, 05:55:29 PM
Jim, your disagreement is with the Republicans in the TX legislature who fear the courts will fix TX's Congressional map if they don't draw a legally passable map themselves. I'm struggling to reconcile their worry with your posts.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/25/texas-republicans-congress-hope-special-session/

Huh? Did you read the article?


I encourage you to read the article, Jim.

Which Republican legislators were mentioned in the article?


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on May 29, 2017, 08:12:16 PM
Jim, your disagreement is with the Republicans in the TX legislature who fear the courts will fix TX's Congressional map if they don't draw a legally passable map themselves. I'm struggling to reconcile their worry with your posts.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/25/texas-republicans-congress-hope-special-session/

Huh? Did you read the article?


I encourage you to read the article, Jim.

Which Republican legislators were mentioned in the article?

Aha, now I see the goal of the the Socratic dialogue—it's Republican legislators from Texas in the U.S. Congress who are crapping their pants about the courts redrawing the map.

Randy Weber is one of the Republican legislators quoted in the article. 


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: jimrtex on May 29, 2017, 11:26:04 PM
Jim, your disagreement is with the Republicans in the TX legislature who fear the courts will fix TX's Congressional map if they don't draw a legally passable map themselves. I'm struggling to reconcile their worry with your posts.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/25/texas-republicans-congress-hope-special-session/

Huh? Did you read the article?


I encourage you to read the article, Jim.

Which Republican legislators were mentioned in the article?

Aha, now I see the goal of the the Socratic dialogue—it's Republican legislators from Texas in the U.S. Congress who are crapping their pants about the courts redrawing the map.

Randy Weber is one of the Republican legislators quoted in the article. 
Randy Weber is not in the Texas legislature. The other congressman quoted, Bill Flores, says that lawyers have all kinds of opinions.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: krazen1211 on May 30, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
Randy Weber is not in the Texas legislature. The other congressman quoted, Bill Flores, says that lawyers have all kinds of opinions.


The Texas Congressional delegation is famous for being very aggressive in helping out their fellow Republicans. Indeed, the proposed map in 2011 adheres to the guidelines stated by Joe Barton that Republicans rightfully deserve more seats. He weakened his own district.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Brittain33 on June 05, 2017, 12:40:54 PM
Democrats See New Opportunities in Texas Redistricting Case

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/democrats-see-new-opportunities-texas-redistricting-case

Quote
A congressional redistricting case could offer Texas Democrats a glimmer of hope for making gains in the Republican-dominated state if a new map takes effect shortly before the 2018 midterm elections.

Revised congressional boundaries could create opportunities for Democrats looking to win back the House — but also challenges if they must quickly find formidable candidates in newly competitive races. And if a court redraws the state’s map, the GOP-led state government would lose control of a tool that lawmakers in Texas and across the country have relied on to stay in power.


Title: Re: US House Redistricting: Texas
Post by: Gass3268 on June 05, 2017, 12:49:52 PM
Democrats See New Opportunities in Texas Redistricting Case

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/democrats-see-new-opportunities-texas-redistricting-case

Quote
A congressional redistricting case could offer Texas Democrats a glimmer of hope for making gains in the Republican-dominated state if a new map takes effect shortly before the 2018 midterm elections.

Revised congressional boundaries could create opportunities for Democrats looking to win back the House — but also challenges if they must quickly find formidable candidates in newly competitive races. And if a court redraws the state’s map, the GOP-led state government would lose control of a tool that lawmakers in Texas and across the country have relied on to stay in power.

The decision today about North Carolina only increases the possibility of Texas being forced to redo their maps.