Atlas Forum

Atlas Fantasy Elections => Atlas Fantasy Government => Topic started by: JohnFKennedy on November 21, 2004, 03:34:07 pm



Title: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 21, 2004, 03:34:07 pm
Proposed at the request of Attorney General Peter Bell who e-mailed the act to me.



The Miscellany Act

Section 1: The Census

1. The provisions of this Section shall be considered to be carrying out the Constitutionally mandated Census prescribed in the Apportionment of States to Districts Amendment.

2. The Census shall be taken at noon on the first Friday of March, July and November of each year.

Section 2: Contiguity Borders

Since Hawaii and Alaska lack borders with other US States, they are considered to be contiguous for the purposes of redistricting in the following ways:

1. Alaska is contiguous to Hawaii
2. Alaska is contiguous to Washington
3. Hawaii is contiguous to California

Section 3: Party Platform Definition

For a Party to have a Party Platform under the Organised Parties Amendment, its submitted Party Platform shall meet the following criteria:

1. It shall be at least two hundred words in length.
2. It shall address general political issues or issues relevant to the circumstances of Atlasia.

Section 4: Numerical Definition

For the purposes of all statute, executive orders, judicial rulings and other official documents of the Atlasian government, the following shall be the standard definitions throughout Atlasia:

1. One Billion = 1,000,000,000
2. One Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000




Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Colin on November 21, 2004, 03:37:06 pm
Proposed at the request of Attorney General Peter Bell who e-mailed the act to me.



The Miscellany Act

Section 1: The Census

1. The provisions of this Section shall be considered to be carrying out the Constitutionally mandated Census prescribed in

the Apportionment of States to Districts Amendment.

2. The Census shall be taken at noon on the first Friday of March, July and November of each year.

Section 2: Contiguity Borders

Since Hawaii and Alaska lack borders with other US States, they are considered to be contiguous for the purposes of

redistricting in the following ways:

1. Alaska is contiguous to Hawaii
2. Alaska is contiguous to Washington
3. Hawaii is contiguous to California

Section 3: Party Platform Definition

For a Party to have a Party Platform under the Organised Parties Amendment, its submitted Party Platform shall meet the

following criteria:

1. It shall be at least two hundred words in length.
2. It shall address general political issues or issues relevant to the circumstances of Atlasia.

Section 4: Numerical Definition

For the purposes of all statute, executive orders, judicial rulings and other official documents of the Atlasian government,

the following shall be the standard definitions throughout Atlasia:

1. One Billion = 1,000,000,000
2. One Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000



I like this bill and it has my support. It finally resolves the issue of the census and gives needed criteria for party platforms and gives general standards to that Atlasia needs.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 21, 2004, 03:40:13 pm
HAHA


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 21, 2004, 03:41:29 pm
The only thing needing to be altered in this document is the second clause of section 1, it states the census shall be taken at noon, but not by which time zone. The question is, which time zone do we want? EST? GMT?


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Colin on November 21, 2004, 03:42:02 pm
EST since that is the official forum time.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 21, 2004, 03:44:12 pm
The Miscellany Act

Section 1: The Census

1. The provisions of this Section shall be considered to be carrying out the Constitutionally mandated Census prescribed in the Apportionment of States to Districts Amendment.

2. The Census shall be taken at noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday of March, July and November of each year.

Section 2: Contiguity Borders

Since Hawaii and Alaska lack borders with other US States, they are considered to be contiguous for the purposes of redistricting in the following ways:

1. Alaska is contiguous to Hawaii
2. Alaska is contiguous to Washington
3. Hawaii is contiguous to California

Section 3: Party Platform Definition

For a Party to have a Party Platform under the Organised Parties Amendment, its submitted Party Platform shall meet the following criteria:

1. It shall be at least two hundred words in length.
2. It shall address general political issues or issues relevant to the circumstances of Atlasia.

Section 4: Numerical Definition

For the purposes of all statute, executive orders, judicial rulings and other official documents of the Atlasian government, the following shall be the standard definitions throughout Atlasia:

1. One Billion = 1,000,000,000
2. One Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000



Changed to contain Eastern Standard Time so as to prevent a challenge in the courts of someone registering before noon Pacific Standard time but not Eastern.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 21, 2004, 03:45:36 pm
Should have just called it the anti-TexasGurl being a party act.
it would have passed unanimously!


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 21, 2004, 03:47:15 pm
Should have just called it the anti-TexasGurl being a party act.
it would have passed unanimously!

All you'd have to do would be create a real party platform to get around this, besides, this isn't my creation, take it up with Peter if you are angry about it.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 21, 2004, 03:49:17 pm
I'm not angry it's hilarious.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Colin on November 21, 2004, 03:53:36 pm
I'm not angry it's hilarious.
Why is it hilarious? I don't see what's so funny.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 21, 2004, 03:56:29 pm
Because the same people who crammed the original act through the senate despite my objections to it are the ones who are yelping the loudest.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: StevenNick on November 21, 2004, 04:02:40 pm
Section 3 of this bill is a massive violation of political free speech.  I officially move for Section 3 to be removed from this bill.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 21, 2004, 04:10:50 pm
Just to explain a few things about this bill:

Section 1:
Friday at noon was chosen simply because it is the first moment from which the new Senate / President are sworn in. It also helps the redistricting as much as the federal government can.

Section 2:
Its Harry's idea, so he can take credit. Certainly a good idea to ensure their contiguity for redistricting.

Section 3:
I want people to have bothered to do something in writing a platform.

Section 4:
The numerical definitions were brought up some months ago to ensure there is no confusion with the "British" defintions of billion and trillion, not that Britain uses those definitions anyway.

I am also generally declaring this to be an open bill - feel free to put amendments on it to define things in the Constitution that you feel should be defined, but aren't (no dictionary definitions please).


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: StevenNick on November 21, 2004, 04:28:19 pm
I don't feel that it is the right of the government to interfere with political parties' platform writing commissions.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 21, 2004, 04:29:55 pm
I don't feel that it is the right of the government to interfere with political parties' platform writing commissions.
We wouldn't want anyone having fun creating parties.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 21, 2004, 04:42:57 pm
I don't mean to have a go at Texasgurl (mostly because I think she agrees with me), but having a party platform that says my platform is to get myself re-elected makes an a$$ out of the law - its clear that the original intent was for people to address issues of relevance and for it to be of some length. I think 200 words is on the short side, but I want to account for people who like to keep it sharp and punchy.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Defarge on November 21, 2004, 05:19:13 pm
I stand in stand in support of this bill


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: 2,868,691 on November 21, 2004, 05:40:34 pm
We need the bill just for housekeeping purposes.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 21, 2004, 05:42:56 pm
I just noticed an error in the bill - Organised should be spelt with a 'z'. Sorry about that.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: StevenNick on November 21, 2004, 10:24:32 pm
I will vote against this bill unless Section 3 is removed.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: TeePee4Prez on November 21, 2004, 10:32:47 pm
I support this bill as well.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Bono on November 22, 2004, 03:20:40 am
I support this bill as well.

As well as who?


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 22, 2004, 06:01:26 am
A point that Ernest raised in another thread made me realise that another section would be useful for this Bill:

Section 5: System of Measurement

1. For the purposes of all statute, executive orders, judicial rulings, other official documents of the Atlasian government and for all acts of commerce, the International System of Units, as it stands at the passage of this bill into law, shall be the standard system of measurement throughout Atlasia.

2. Other, non-standard systems of measurement may be used, however, all quantities must be defined in the standard system of measurement alongside the non-standard system of measurement.

3. The sole exception to this Section shall be those distances that exceed 200 meters in length, where the mile may be used as a concurrent standard definition and temperature, which may be measured in Celsius or Fahrenheit as a concurrent standard standard definition. The survey Inch may also be used as a concurrent standard definition for surveying purposes only.


Its pretty straight forward, and most of us in here are at worst in our 20s, so we grew up on the metric system for the most part. The exception is given in Section 3 as I recall from my last visit to the US (ILV might still have been in dippers), all road signs are given in miles, and I don't especially want to replace every road sign in the US due to the cost and the inherent confusion it would cause. I would also like everybody to know the pain that I endured mis-spelling metre for this section.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Siege40 on November 22, 2004, 10:11:53 am
Seems fine to me.

Siege


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: True Federalist on November 22, 2004, 10:15:43 am
Section 5 Clause 1 is already US law.  All of the customary units of measure are defined with respect to SI.

Section 5 Clause 2 is close to the existing law.  Most items of commerce now are required to use dual measurement.  Where it would change the law is mainly in the areas of road signage, weather reports, construction, and cooking shows, where the use of SI is essentially non-existent.

Section 5 Clause 3 is said by the proponent to provide an exception for road signs due to the cost and confusion.  But that is hardly the only area that sudden metrification would cause problems.  The gradual metrification that the US has been undergoing in daily life and commerce is slow, and while I would like to see it pick up the pace, going to pure SI overnight is not something I favor.

That said, I wonder if the use of the metric system would increase if the term SI Swimsuit issue had a different connotation. :)


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Colin on November 22, 2004, 12:03:13 pm
I will vote against this bill unless Section 3 is removed.
I don't see why? Section 3 only concerns government recognized organized parties. It is just a criteria to go with the organized party criteria already in place. An unorganized party can still have a platform that is how ever long they want it but Section 3 is only concerned with government recognized organized parties and is thus not a violation of free speech.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Bono on November 22, 2004, 12:15:14 pm
I oppose this. The imperial system is the symbol of the fight against internationalism. I also oppose this adding of items to bills to make them more passable.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Colin on November 22, 2004, 12:32:59 pm
A point that Ernest raised in another thread made me realise that another section would be useful for this Bill:

Section 5: System of Measurement

1. For the purposes of all statute, executive orders, judicial rulings, other official documents of the Atlasian government and for all acts of commerce, the International System of Units, as it stands at the passage of this bill into law, shall be the standard system of measurement throughout Atlasia.

2. Other, non-standard systems of measurement may be used, however, all quantities must be defined in the standard system of measurement alongside the non-standard system of measurement.

3. The sole exception to this Section shall be those distances that exceed 200 meters in length, where the mile may be used as a concurrent standard definition.


Its pretty straight forward, and most of us in here are at worst in our 20s, so we grew up on the metric system for the most part. The exception is given in Section 3 as I recall from my last visit to the US (ILV might still have been in dippers), all road signs are given in miles, and I don't especially want to replace every road sign in the US due to the cost and the inherent confusion it would cause. I would also like everybody to know the pain that I endured mis-spelling metre for this section.

I will not support this bill if it demands that the country use metric. That is an outrage. I say that this shoudn't be a part of this bill and I would like to ask everyone that if this is included to vote against this bill.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Siege40 on November 22, 2004, 01:17:24 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this bill require that all laws be written in metric? If so, that's fine.

Siege


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 22, 2004, 01:18:38 pm
I will not support this bill if it demands that the country use metric. That is an outrage. I say that this shoudn't be a part of this bill and I would like to ask everyone that if this is included to vote against this bill.

Nobody is forced to use soley metric under this system - companies are free to use dual systems of measurement as they wish. I just feel that it is in the best interests of consumers if they are able to compare like for like in one single system of units, rather than having to carry a calculator around with them to do imperial-metric conversions.

I oppose this. The imperial system is the symbol of the fight against internationalism. I also oppose this adding of items to bills to make them more passable.

I thought that Greenpeace was the symbol of the fight angainst internationalism, and besides there's nothing wrong with using one standard system of measurement the world over - it makes international commerce much easier.

I am not trying to add items to make them more passable, I'm simply trying to get them considered. Sections 2 and 4 have come up on previous occassions and they never got anywhere simply because they were such insignificant measures that the Senate wasn't very interested. The advantage of coalescing them into one bill is that things that are good to have on the statute books actually do make into law because the Senate is willing to consider them, especially with something as needed as the Census definitions.

That said, I support having the Senate vote section by section on the bill if they think this is in order so that nobody feels that any of the Sections have been bolted on to ride with the rest of the bill.

As to the concerns that Ernest raises:
I forgot about weather reports and cooking books. I'll draft something on it. I am slightly surprised to hear that construction still works in imperial, especially as the US does not have a uniform usage of the Inch as far as I am aware.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this bill require that all laws be written in metric? If so, that's fine.

Yes it does.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: True Federalist on November 22, 2004, 03:48:34 pm
The US actually has two inches, both defined in terms of the metric system.

The common inch (or international inch as it is officially called as it was adopted in 1959 by an agreement between Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and the United States) uses the conversion 1 inch = 25.4mm.  However, there was a large amount of geodetic data using the inch as it was defined in US law in 1866 which was 1 meter=39.37 inches. This inch is called the survey inch.  The two inches differ by 2 parts per million, so you have to get to some extremely fine tolerences to notice the difference.  The difference between the international inch and the old pre-1959 imperial inch is about 1 part per ten thousand which caused a more noticable, but still not easily noticable change for the Brits.

However, if conversion from the survey inch to the international inch was deemed impractcal when all that is required is a single (albeit non-decimal) conversion factor, can you imagine the troubles that would be caused by a metric requirement, particularly when all the existing geodetic data is in survey units?


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: StevenNick on November 22, 2004, 03:52:52 pm
I oppose this. The imperial system is the symbol of the fight against internationalism. I also oppose this adding of items to bills to make them more passable.

I would like to echo Senator Bono's sentiments.  Adopting the metric system is an unwarranted sacrifice of our national sovereignty.  Here in the United States we use our own system of weights and measures and I see no need to change that at this time.  I also share Senator Bono's general apprehension regarding growing internationalism.   I am a free trader.  I am not afraid of cooperating with other nations to achieve economic growth, but I will resist any measure that would take away any part of American culture and replace it with any kind of international standard.

This addition to the Miscellany Act has further solidified my vote.  I will vote against this bill.  If it passes, I will urge President PBrunsel to exercise his veto power.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Hermit on November 22, 2004, 04:12:37 pm
The Imperial System is an antiquated fossil that has no place in the modern world. You might as well use hogsheads, cubits, and rods and thee, thou and thine.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Siege40 on November 22, 2004, 04:25:57 pm
The Imperial System is an antiquated fossil that has no place in the modern world. You might as well use hogsheads, cubits, and rods and thee, thou and thine.

Agreed. Not to mention its name, Imperial. I oppose all imperialism! ;).
It's not a forced conversion, it's merely to bring continutiy. We cannot continue to ignore other nations, which many have adopted this system. By providing conversions on our bills we lose none of (y)our cultural identity.

Siege


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 22, 2004, 04:28:21 pm
I was going to vote for this until you added section 5.
bring it in as an amendment to the bill.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 22, 2004, 04:32:47 pm
I was going to vote for this until you added section 5.
bring it in as an amendment to the bill.

Since this is far more controversial than I had expected, I don't want to endanger the bill as a whole (especially the census provisions), so I will introduce it as an amendment only.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: ?????????? on November 22, 2004, 05:27:57 pm
This is a terrible bill.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 27, 2004, 05:17:08 am
I hereby open the voting on the amendment that Peter Bell has attached to this act by submitting it myself.

All please vote Yea or Nay (or abstain) on this amendment.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Bono on November 27, 2004, 08:43:39 am
Nay.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: King on November 27, 2004, 01:06:14 pm
You should also include the barring of titles of nobility from the government.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 27, 2004, 01:08:14 pm
You should also include the barring of titles of nobility from the government.

Considering thats in the Constitutional Amendment presently before a public poll, it is unnecessary.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: King on November 27, 2004, 01:15:44 pm
You should also include the barring of titles of nobility from the government.

Considering thats in the Constitutional Amendment presently before a public poll, it is unnecessary.

It is? Well, as they say in the U.S/ House of Representatives, "nobody reads the bills"


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 27, 2004, 02:06:20 pm
I abstain.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: 2,868,691 on November 27, 2004, 02:31:00 pm
I vote Yea.  When the rest of the world uses the more sensible metric system, there's no reason for Atlasia to be a stick-in-the-mud about it.  Especially when the metric system makes so much more sense anyway.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 27, 2004, 02:58:00 pm
Nay.
on the amendment.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 27, 2004, 03:05:33 pm
I abstain.

My reasoning behind this vote is that although the Metric system is far more sensible and comprehensible, I still like using Imperial measurements for things such as height and weight.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: StevenNick on November 27, 2004, 03:08:27 pm
I vote nay.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: ?????????? on November 27, 2004, 05:12:11 pm
Nay


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: 2,868,691 on November 27, 2004, 07:28:17 pm
Shame on you nay voters.  You won't do one simple thing to try to join the international community.  You one get rid of one archaic nonsensical aspect of our country and switch to a sensible system that the rest of the world uses.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: StevenNick on November 28, 2004, 02:34:46 am
Shame on you nay voters.  You won't do one simple thing to try to join the international community.  You one get rid of one archaic nonsensical aspect of our country and switch to a sensible system that the rest of the world uses.

International community?  You must be joking.  What international community?  And why should we have to sacrifice some of our cultural uniqueness just so we can fit in with this nonexistent 'international community?'  Shame on you for your willingness to sacrifice national sovereignty.

Besides, the main reason I voted against this bill was because of the restrictions placed on political parties and platform writing.  This is a serious infringement of free speech rights.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Defarge on November 28, 2004, 09:00:47 am
Nay

Our system of weights and measures is fine.  There is no need to change simply because everyone else uses it.   It is part of our cultural identity.  We are, after all, elitist, arrogant Americans :)


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Bono on November 28, 2004, 10:20:45 am
With Defarge's vote, it's not at 1-5-1. with 3 senators yet to vote. This kills the ammendment.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Peter on November 28, 2004, 10:26:04 am
Besides, the main reason I voted against this bill was because of the restrictions placed on political parties and platform writing.  This is a serious infringement of free speech rights.

Nobodies voted on the bill yet. This was just the metric measures amendment.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: TeePee4Prez on November 28, 2004, 02:30:03 pm
Nay on the Amendment.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 28, 2004, 02:41:17 pm
With IrishDemocrat's vote the amendment has failed with 6 votes against to 1 in favour with 1 abstention.

Would all please now vote on the bill itself.


Yea


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Bono on November 28, 2004, 02:45:09 pm
I abstain.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: StevenNick on November 28, 2004, 09:07:51 pm
Nay.

I already explained my position on the free speech violations contained in this bill earlier in this thread.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: NYGurl on November 28, 2004, 10:04:01 pm
Aye.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Nym90 on November 29, 2004, 12:09:01 pm
For the record, I vote aye on the amendment.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Nym90 on November 29, 2004, 12:18:26 pm
I vote aye on the full bill.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Siege40 on November 29, 2004, 03:49:18 pm
Aye.

Siege


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: TeePee4Prez on November 29, 2004, 04:35:15 pm
Aye on the full bill.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: JohnFKennedy on November 29, 2004, 04:36:31 pm
This bill now has five votes in favour to one opposed with one abstention meaning that this has passed.

I present this bill to the President to sign.

Votes will still be counted.


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: Defarge on November 29, 2004, 07:07:05 pm
Aye


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: 2,868,691 on November 29, 2004, 07:21:54 pm
Aye


Title: Re: The Miscellany Act
Post by: PBrunsel on November 29, 2004, 11:25:39 pm
I sign this into law

President PBrunsel