Talk Elections

I'm a very Conservative Democrat.  Two of my most Conservative aspects are that
1. I am staunchly pro-life, and
2. I am staunchly pro-school vouchers.
Anyone else?

My most conservative attribute is:

1. I want the size of government scaled down.
2. I don't like labor unions - I support free trade.
3. I want my taxes cut.
4. I don't support affirmative action as it is now.

1) I'm pro-civil unions and not nessesarily anti-gay marriage.

2) This isn't nessesary 'Liberal', but unlike a lot of conservatives I'm not staunchly against social programs, on the contrary I'm in favor of them when I see that they can do some serious good.  i just think that we should keep a really close eye on them to make sure they aren't abused and we should have anti-dependence mechanisims.

3) I, like many conservatives believe in a Reaganesque foriegn policy.  Unlike many convervatives I believe that Reagan would be very much in favor of operation such as Kosovo and Bosnia.

Nice to see another Dem favouring school vouchers. My conservative issues:

1. Pro-school vouchers.

2. Fiscally conservative.

3. Favour free trade, scepytical towards unions.

4. Distrusts government and want it to remain small.

5. Believe in a fairly tough foreign policy, supported the Iraq War.

6. Think it's important with personal resonsibility and think people shouldn't be able to run away from it.

7. Thinks goverment has a moral obligation to keep away from people's lives, both on social issues and economic ones.

8. Think it's vital to uphold law and order, be tough on criminals, harsh punishments, etc.

9. Undecided on abortion, moderately leaning against capital punishment.

10. Dislikes France... ;)

So once again, why are you sporting the Red avatar, Gus?

The conservatives scare me more than the liberals...I can live being in the same party as most of the Dem posters, but being in the same party as PD, Brambilla, StatesRights, Opebo, etc gives me the shudders. I support gay rights and I'm not American, remember? :)

I know you aren't an American and I know you support gay rights and I know that some of those guys are scarey at times, but don't think of it as their party, think of it as Supersoulty's party.

LOL! What a brain-washing attempt! 'It's Supersoulty's party...they're all nice...' :) You know, it almost worked, b/c I do like you...but it didn't remove the image of 'gay people are mentally disordered'-posts which is all to fresh...and due to my background I don't want to leave poor people to die just b/c they didn't succeed in life. But if the green avatar wasn't so damn ugly I might use that instead...but I have to choose one colour and right now I'm fine with this...but I might change it in the future of course...

Who's for all of that.  I certainly am not and I think that most reps., though socially most Reps on here are conservative, I think that economically they are less so.  At anyrate, there are extremists in the other party too.  You could just try on the blue for a while and see how you like it.  :)

Acctually a large majority of people on this site are fairy extreme to one end or the other.  There aren't many flaming moderates out there who are into politics the way we are.  :)

Thanks for the compliments by the way I like you as well.  :)

I did that before...it's a nice colour... :/]

And yes, there are certainly extremists in the Dem party as well, and I disagree with them rather a lot, but they don't SCARE me as much as the Republican extremists...but as I said before, if there was a centrist patry I'd probably join that one...

Well lets see…I would say that I’m fairly moderate on most issues…

I believe in a small, low cost federal government…with the onus placed on state government for things like welfare etc…

I support the idea of American Internationalism in that America should work aggressive to promote and export democracy across the world…

I support the notion of involving faith groups in welfare programs…not replacing the federal government but assisting as private companies do and should…however I would quibble with ultra-conservative groups being so involved…

On cultural issues such as gay marriage and abortion…I’m probably on the right of the party I pretty much share the views of Evan Bayh…while I’m personally opposed under most circumstances (of course instances of rape, incest, danger to the mothers’ health or the risk that the child would be horrifically handicapped I would support the mothers right to decided on the fate of HER child)….on euthanasia I think that a civilised society should leave open to its citizens the right to end their lives so long as they are themselves of sane mind or there instructions (in the case of “living wills”) where given when they where of sane mind in the presence of reputable witnesses…on gay marriage I have mixed feelings, on the one hand I think that gay people are as capable of having loving and rewarding relationships as straight couples and as such should have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples however the idea of recognising these relationships as on a par with what I see as a far more desirable heterosexual relationships worries me, as I think that the only environment where children should be brought up is within a family that consists of a man and a women in a loving relationship and I think that society should encourage that and by legalising gay marriage I think we are not…as I said I have mixed views….

But hey I’m starting to ramble…                  

I don't think I'm liberal on anything now that I think about it.  Libertarian on some, but not liberal.

I think we're pretty close to each other, I'm close to oyu on those social issues.

We may have one of those soon.  At least for the Fantasy Elections.  ;)

That'd be awesome! :)

I think it's funny to hear people say that we shouldn't legalize gay marriage because society should promote child-rearing with a man and a woman...

Maybe we should illegalize divorce and having children out of wedlock then.  Since the VAST majority of children will be impacted by this phenomenon and not by a bunch of gays who want to get married.  

I think I read somewhere that half the children adopted in this country are by gays...  If that's true, where are all these children going to go...  I'm sure Pat Robertson isn't going to adopt them all... he's too busy trying to sell his crap to people who are too dumb to breathe without instructions...  

My most liberal stance on an issue is...... ::drum roll::


I'm against the death penalty.

What does this have to do with the topic? And I doubt that that adoption number is true, it was legalized recentrly in Sweden and the number of interested people was very low.

im strongly opposed to the death penalty.

im also fairly liberal on most civil rights issues.  

This is not a liberal position, and it is one that you and I share, along with only about 20% of all Republicans and 35% of all Democrats.  

It seems liberal to me?

I have to admit I have a little trouble with this.  I keep thinking about the terms Left and Right.  Which we get from France.  (I have no problems with the most of the French people whom I've met.)  The aristocracy sat to the right (droit) of the king and the unwashed masses sat to the left (gauche) of the king.  So, if you're poor you probably support socialized medicine, etc.  If you're rich, you probably say, "let them eat cake."  But, on non-economic issues, how do we define liberal?  Can you give me a succint definition, so that I might consider whether my positions on non-economic issues are 'liberal' or 'conservative'.

I'm pretty liberal on most issues, especially economic ones.  Where I agree with conservatives:

1.) I supported the war in Iraq, albeit for humanitarian reasons.

2.) I'm strongly pro-law enforcement.  I believe we should be diligent in prosecuting even minor crimes, like Giuliani did in NYC.  People may be born poor (which I believe is a massive injustice), but they are not born criminals, they choose to become criminals.  (I am against the death penalty, but not really on moral grounds.)

3.) I think that liberal rhetoric is often insulting to people who base their politics on religious faith.  I think moral and religious values should have a greater place in public debate.  For instance, on abortion, I am personally pro-choice, but I don't think you can counter an "abortion is murder" argument with "right to privacy" argument.

Thanks for the history lesson, though I was aware of the hitory of left and right... ;)

I link conservatism to Hobbes and Golding, the belief that man is evil and has to be controlled by a strong state, i.e. a strong law and order. I also link it to Burke and the concept of pragmatism, not being to interested in moral principles. Liberals, in the classic sense, which I THINK is appliable even in the US on social issues, value the individual and want to keep the state out of people's lives. With that base I find it easy to characterize opposition to capital punishment as liberal.

Given Burke, I am extremely conservative.  Given Hobbes and Golding, I am extremely liberal.  Take your pick.  I support decriminalization of prostitution, marijuana, and all forms of gambling.  I also support the right to keep and bear arms and the right to terminate a pregnancy and the right to keep your hard-earned paycheck.  I'm a strong believer in questioning all authority as well.  For me, those come from the same place.  Limited government.  Yet some of those positions are rather arbitrarily labelled liberal while others are arbitrarily labelled conservative.  

I think NickG hit the nail on the head when he said that the unfortunate language used by many 'liberals' in opposition to abortion restrictions is insulting to individuals who come to their Pro-Life positions from deeply held moral beliefs.  Teresa Heinz Kerry gave a wonderful interview to the NYT, a few weeks ago, in which she excoriated those who use such offensive (and rather unsophisticated) language as 'keep your laws offa my body' in defense of abortion rights.  I appreciated her insight.

In any case, I can't imagine that a candidate's position on such trivial matters as abortion rights and homosexual marriage would affect something important as the selection of our Commander-in-Chief.

Well, this problem occurs b/c you Americans messed up the political labels... ;) You're basically a liberal, in the real sense. That makes you conservative on some issues and liberal on other in the American context and makes you seem inconcsistent. But you're basically a classic liberal.

Pro Vouchers (our family sent us all to catholic school, could have used a hand)

Pro NAFTA and free trade

Pro Balanced Budget Ammendment

Pro Burger Bill (no suing cause Mc Donalds made you fat)

Pro Tort Reform (frivilous lawsuits drive up costs)

Anti Affirmative action


...I am also for a lot of thigns that I think should be considered 'conservative' but are considered liberal for some reason:

Pro envirnonmental protections

Pro civil liberties

Pro equal rights (including gay civil unions)

Thank you.  I have saying just that, as you well know from my previous posts.  

But don't go around calling me a 'liberal' as it is a very pejorative term in some circles    ;)

Lol, of course not, the L-word will not pass my lips as a reference to you, oh, ye mighty arch-conservative. :)

And I'll add being against AA like CD is. :)

One thing I can think of:  Free Trade.

If I was a senator, I would be the most pro-free trade senator in US History.  No joke.

I'm a seriously staunch conservative politically.  Definitely to the right of W, more along the lines of a Cheney or Ashcroft.  It's difficult for me to think of an issue that I'm, let's say, progressive on.

I'd say humane treatment of animals is something that hits home with me.  I love animals and revile hunting.  Those hunting shows on ESPN make me sick.  

What else....hmmm, I guess somewhat on abortion.  I support it only in the first trimester, after that I'm against it under all circumstances, with the exception of the life of the mother being at risk.

I think it says a lot that some people here are trivializing gay rights and abortion rights.  Perhaps if you were gay or having an abortion it wouldn't be so trivial.  

And I agree with the previous poster...  hunting is a disgusting "sport."

I'm a gun rights guy ... but I staunchly favor background checks.

I favor small government.

I'm very shaky on the whole abortion issue.

I don't really care about social security, I'm
for responsible spending, and I am pro-free trade.

I would say that I support certain liberal goals, but not the methods that liberals use to achieve those goals.

I believe in equality of opportunity, to the greatest extent possible, but I am enough of a realist to know that it is not within the power of government to equalize everybody's opportunity.  We are all born into, and raised with, certain circumstances, both good and bad, that make our opportunities in life unequal.  But we should not allow anybody's opportunities to be limited by factors such as race, gender, etc.

I believe in racial equality, but to me that doesn't mean that government should designate certain groups as perennial victims, and favor them over other citizens.  I also don't think that government should be in the business of telling people where to live or go to school, based on skin color.  I don't believe that racial equality will ultimately come through government, but through private initiative, and I think the failure of the civil rights movement to move beyond dependency on government has set black progress back substantially.

I have no objection to background checks for people buying guns, but I don't believe gun control is the answer to our crime problems.  The same people who strongly favor gun control are the ones who have undermined law enforcement by claiming every criminal is really a victim.  Those who are not constrained by laws against robbery and murder will not be constrained by laws against gun possession.

I favor certain anti-poverty programs, those that teach initiative and self-reliance, rather than liberal-style programs that foster dependency and encourage the type of behavior that can only perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

I am not against rehabilitation for criminals, but it has to be accompanied by punishment too.  The "rehabilitation only" philosophy of the liberals has only led to inexorably higher crime rates.

With respect to the financial markets, I think that every effort should be made to allow average investors to have the same level of information as fat-cat insiders, so they can more easily keep from being taken advantage of.

I am relatively tolerant of gay rights.  I don't think that gays should face discrimination in employment, housing, etc.  But I think the institution of marriage should be reserved to the union of one man and one woman.

I'm Gen X Politics-a-riffic!

Conservative:

1. (This has somebow become conservative... I don't know why...) BALANCE THE BUDGET!  NOW!  GAH!

2. Free Trade is good.  More good products for us :)

I'm very socially liberal - basically a Liberal with the capital L, or a 'libertarian'.
Issues I would disagree most with the GOP:

1) Legalization of prostitution.
2) Legalization of drugs.

good to hear you chime in on this.  been waiting for rightwingnut.

angus, ever read Republican Party Reptile by P.J. O'Rourke?  I like his vision of a right-winger who enjoys life's pleasures.

know it well my friend.  that deserves its own thread, but not here.

how's life back in the USA.

Thanks for asking.. I have to admit its a difficult adjustment.  Though I like being American, I generally don't like living here that much.  I don't like being one of those people who go abroad and then complain when they get home... but I will there's too much driving to be done here (driving makes me tense), I really can't stand the food, and everything's expensive.  

But it is interesting to see how things are going back home.  I was surprised to see 'Help Wanted' signs everywhere in the St. Louis and eastern Missouri area, even in small towns.. of course these were for below-subsistence $7-10 an hour type jobs, but still not a bad sign for the economy.

Full faith and credit in whatever papers you carry are what cause '...noble kings and princes to bow when'eer they come...'  Let's hope that your observations speak for your state.  

1. I'm very moderate on the abortion issue(though in recent months I've started to lean more to the right on this issue....)
2. I'm Pro Civil-Unions
3. I am against tobacco products such as cigs and cigars(But I'm not against chewing tobacco)
4.I'm for stronger gun control laws such as back ground checks whenever you buy a gun and I'm for gun locks on all new guns.

and for the heck of it I'm very Conservitive on economic issues, I'm also pro Death penalty, I dislike the way Affirmitive Action is currently set up, and I'm against welfare for those who don't go out and at least try to find a job.

I don't like abortions but think that banning it would only benifit the manufacturers of wire coat-hangers...

I'm anti-free trade

Lol, we have too many heated debates on gay marriage already... ;)

I certainly wouldn't confuse libertarian with liberal...when did it become 'THE Vorlon'? :)

My most liberal aspect is probably my belief that the legal system discriminates against people who don't have a lot of money.

That's not to say that I think the legal system is too hard on criminals from poor backgrounds.  I think it is too easy on rich and famous people.

I think that if you are rich enough, and can get the right lawyer, you can either beat legitimate charges, or reduce your punishment to far less than it would be if you were the average Joe.

Because it takes a lot of money to utilize our slow and ponderous legal system, it inherently favors those who can afford to wade through the whole legal thicket, while those without the resources to do that are forced to settle cases, even if they are right.

On the civil side, so many cases are settled wrongly because it would cost too much money to see the case through legally, and there is so little confidence of a sensible result in any case.

My economic philosophy can be summed up in one word, PRIVITIZE.

I am against Affirmative Action in its current form.

I have some viewpoints which are more libertarian than liberal, but not neccesarily all that alien to liberals, such as on drugs and prostitution.

I am against gay marriage, but I am against heterosexual marriage as well. I think the government should only recognize civil unions for ALL couples, and leave marriage out of it altogether and leave that to the churches. However as long as the government recognizes heterosexual marriage I believe there should be gay marriage as well, as an equal rights issue.  Definately not a conservative position but worth mentioning.

eh, that's about it. and just to chime in, I am anti-death penalty and anti-free trade.

Hey guys I'm a Centrist! lol. No seriously, im slightly Liberal, and very liberal on areas such as gay rights and abortion. But.

1. I can't stand the so called anti-war liberals, what is so 'liberating' about leaving despots in power. True Liberals and Democrats should have no objection to the war.

2. In the UK at least, there are too many people on benefits or 'disability' who have sod all wrong with them. Get out and work, for your self esteem if nothing else.

3. I liked Margaret Thatcher..in retrospect.

4. I hate Political Correctness.

I am pro-death: including murder, suicide, euthanasia, and abortion (if you count them as separate).  It is a state of greater entropy than life, and therefore inevitable.

Anti-voucher but also anti-public education.  I think it's the parent's responsibility to educate the child.  If the parent can't do so, then it is the parent's responsibility to secure funding for the child's education by others, not the government's.

Pro-gay but anti-gay marriage.  The more f****ts there are, the more women for the rest of us.  But marriage is for child-bearing; if two individuals can't conceive a child, then they should not be married.  As humans reproduce sexully, two individuals of the same gender can't conceive.  Ergo they shouldn't be married.

Anti-medicine-  I don't know if this is conservative or liberal but I think that if you're sick than that sucks for you, either die or get over it.

Pro-drugs-  If you wanna  yourself up then it's your responsibility not mine.

Pro-prostitution- It's her body, she can rent it to me whenever she damn well pleases; I pay fair market rent on anything I lease, be it for hours (whores) or years (houses, cars, etc).

Pro-immigration-  If you want to come here and make something of yourself, then I like you more than I like some of the bums born and bred here.

Pro-fiscal responsibility-  How this became liberal I'll never know, but the Republican Congressional Caucus is a bunch of drunken sailors when it comes to weilding the "power of the purse".  I think they got rid of the purse strings when Bush was elected.

Oops, I forgot about that ;)

Seriously, I think I'm on the left in just about every issue.  I WAS pro-life, but as I thought about it, I don't think its right to say to a woman she HAS to have her kid.  The few people that do get abortions are so desperate to not have a baby that I think it's a good idea to do it in a safe way than have her potentially harm herself.  

The size of gov't is two-sided for me.  If its big, I think there are alot of generally decent people serving public office that could really help the people.  But there are the corrupt ones to.  I'm for a middle sized govt.  

I also feel that a teacher in a public school can hang religious symbols on the walls.  AS long as he/she's not forcing her beliefs on students, excessively talking about it, or making others feel excluded.

Other than that, I usually think the liberal view is the right one.  

I'm liberal on almost everything. The only exceptions I can think of are:

Affirmative action, and even there, I support class-based AA, but oppose race-based AA.

Free trade, where I lean left but am somewhat in the middle, I think that we should trade freely with countries that have comparable labor standards to ours, and we shouldn't refuse to trade with any country no matter what, but we should have tariffs to make up for the difference if we are trading with countries that have lower labor standards and wages than our own. Corporations shouldn't have an economic incentive to leave the US.

On taxes, I favor cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, but raising them for the wealthy. So that's still pretty liberal, but I would oppose raising taxes on the poor or middle class.

Otherwise I'm to the left on pretty much everything else. Pro-choice on abortion, pro-gay marriage, anti-death penalty, favor rehabilitation for criminals as more effective than punishment (though I do still support punishment), favor increased spending on social programs, pro gun-control if the gun has no legitimate hunting or sporting purpose, believe government to be more efficient and effective in providing basic services than the private sector, anti-vouchers, pro-drug legalization, favor stronger environmental regulations, anti-war unless we have UN support or our nation or another is directly attacked.

Which you, appropriately enough, misspelled.

Hear, hear.

I completely agree.  Especially with part "a".  I am completely against the death penalty.  It's a hypocracy.  Killing someone for killing for someone else is completely stupid.  Kudos, Vorlon, to your incredible insight that is completely parallel to my own beliefs on the death penalty!

As a moderately conservative Republican, my most "liberal" issues are as follows:

1. I'm pro-choice provided the procedure occurs in the First Trimester.

2. I believe in the concept of Welfare, but feel that once a person accepts Welfare, they give up certain rights to privacy that others are guaranteed. Essentially, Welfare is a moral concept, but by accepting state sponsored charity, the person on Welfare should essentially become a ward of the state.

3. I'm somewhat skeptical of trade agreements like Nafta.

4. I am completely opposed to the "morality police" attempting to censor radio, television and movies.

5. I am in favor of legalizing many of the so-called Vice Crimes. I would legalize Prostitution, Casino and Sports Gambling and some forms of drugs.

Those are about the only issues where I'm "off the reservation" as far as the Republican Party goes.

Care to elaborate?

Angus,

Well, free trade on a conceptual level is obviously a positive. But in practice, it has been less than stellar for the US over the past decade. We have essentially transformed from a manufacturing economy into a service economy, and while that may be a necessary change over the long haul, it has caused a great deal of short term pain for blue collar workers, and even white collar workers in fluid industries. We are asking American workers to compete for jobs with foreign workers who often make only a fraction of the salary....and they're elated to make that much, plus the environmental regulations in the US drive up costs on all levels and forces businesses to go abroad where the environmental policies are less restrictive. Obviously this is a complex issue that I could argue both ways, but I think we as Americans need to do a better job of looking out for our labor force.

"That giant sucking sound you'll hear will be the sound of jobs moving to Mexico."  H. Ross Perot

I guess you don't get to be a multi-billionaire by being a dummy.  Maybe this is a case where pragmatism trumps philosophical principle.  You're right about white-collar guys feeling the sting.  Tough going for lots of folks in my little part of Northern CA.  I still say selling our country off bit-by-bit to East Asians is a bigger problem.

Yeah, Ross Perot may have been a lunatic, but he was a BRILLIANT lunatic, about many, many things.

It will adjust itself in the end. Besides, if people want to pay more money for American products, let them do so, in the market-place, but don't FORCE everyone to do so through tariffs. Hell, the workers can subsidize it themselves, by paying overprize for the products they make. I see no reason why other people in the coutnry should be forced into subventionizing unproductive industries.

No politician would be elected if they voiced the idea that the marketplace should decide whuch company succeeds when the companies most apt to failure in a open market are those who hire the voters they are courting.

Correct, but doesn't really have much to do with my point... :)

Gustaf, the non-sequitur posts are really my favorite ones, at least in this forum.  It emphasizes the futility of every word anyone ever types.  (As though any of us really think we can accurate predict state-by-state winners or tell which cities will be important in 20 years, etc.)  Don't you think the occassional lesson in humility is a wonderful thing.

Why isn't there a questionmark on the last sentence, rethorical question, or did you just not expect a sensible answer anyway and was trying to make a point.

I don't personally think I can predict state-by-state winners accurately, etc. :) or maybe: :(

Ew.. toughie..

1. Pro-civil unions. I don't like gay marriage, but support civil unions. Any two consenting adults should be allowed a civil union, regardless of race, sex, or kindred.

2. Anti-censoring.

3. Anti-death penalty in most issues. Death penalty should be very rare if not nonexistent.

4. Pro-affirmative action until I get into Berkeley... then I'll be against it... muahaha

I knew 20% of us (and about 35% of the dems) felt this way, but had not been able to find them till I came to this forum.  Kudos to Dave Liep for giving the unorthodox American types a forum of hope.  Don't hold your breath for a major change of attitude about this in your lifetime, though.


I'll assume you know that this program specifically works against you, in general, whether intentional or not.

Yes, being conservative but anti-death penalty is rare. I don't even think Usama Bin Laden deserves the death penalty. I think we should give him a sex change and embarass him in Afghanistan. Then we'll put him in the Island of Saint Helena like Napoleon. I'm mostly anti-deaht penalty becuase I'm Catholic though. There, I said it CTguy, happy?

I was joking about affirmative action ;)

The death penalty shows you meant it.

I'm such a liberal that I really can't think of anything that makes me conservative. I've recieved complaints from liberals that I'm too liberal. I'm harsh on criminals, really harsh, but some Liberals are like that... but outside of that... Nope, I'm a liberal.

Siege40

affirmative action = cannon fodder for Iraq

Brambilla,
it occurs to me that anticensorship probably doesn't belong on that list.  In fact, the thought police leftist types are some of the scariest among all Democrats.  Anti-censoring is a GOP value, in my book, as they haven't been the ones looking to fire people over insensitive jokes (like the reasonably funny one which opebo just posted above) and tell people what flags they can fly.  I'd like to take a peek into your head and ask how you'd come to the conclusion that this is an 'off the ranch' position for a Republican.

1. :o I mean, .............. :o

My most conservative aspect are

1. small government

2. states right

3. anti- government depending - like being on welfare for a long period of time

Thinking about it I guess fiscal resonsibility is conservative, and the GOP Congressional Caucus is to my left there.  On government involement in education I think that I'm so far to the right I've come full circle and ended up seeming to be on the left.  Since I'm not of the Christian Right, I'm probably so far right that I seem left.  So that leaves pro-Immigration as my only liberal opinion.  Other than the blatant Christianity and anti-Immigration stance, I agree almost entirely with the Constitution Party

Angus,

I think BOTH parties are guilty of major infractions when it comes to censorship and related abuses of freedom. The big difference is that the Republican threat to freedom is so flagrant, that the American people can easily detect it, and just as easily reject it. Hence the "intolerant right wing" is at best a minor threat to our liberties.

On the other hand, the "politically correct left wing" is a VASTLY greater threat to our freedom because their attacks on our basic rights are far more sublte and not as overt in terms of rapid detection. The left also uses paternalistic issues to mask their oppression...pretending that they are "looking out" for people's safety...things like cigarette lawsuits, hate crime legislation, environmental extremism, smoking bans, hunting bans, etc, etc....

The far right is too overt, so they are rarely successful in their attempts to control your life, but the left is much more clever, and they seek to control your mind rather than your body.

Well said.  (I'm sure we can quibble over the meaning of the phrase 'environmental extremism' later.)

Political correctness is not all-encompassing.  The hunting bans, environmental extremism, etc are separate.  The political correctness is just one of many liberal assault on liberty.

I thought about something else.  We are the self-ordained most highly evolved species, no doubt.  And certainly a moon-reaching mammal is millions of years beyond any reptile whose closest living relative is probably the cayman crocodile.  Yet, I must submit the following evidence for your consideration.  Many species are known to have engaged in community caregiving.  It has been suggested, for example, that many of the hadrosaurids exploited the extended family for this purpose.  For example, the fossil record shows evidence of simultaneous multiple bone fractures healing!  This cannot happen when disadvantaged organisms within a specific community are left to fend completely for themselves.  Bear in mind that many of these species, such as the Mamentiosaur, evolved in the early triassic period and therefore scant genetic evidence still exists.  That this species survived for at least 30 million years is testament to their successful management.  But we have enough evidence for other species, and in fact, various sects within our own over the millenia, from which a similar argument might be constructed.  (I have a personal preference for the arcane, but you can imagine examples closer to home, both in space and in time.)  Yours is a position which may not lend itself to the orthodox convention of arbitrarily labelling as liberal or conservative a given philosophy.  I respectfully submit that there are many lines of evidence that the rejection of medicine, whether holistic, pharmaceutical, or preventative, may be misguided.

Conservative aspects:
1. I am staunchly pro-life
2. I am for school vouchers (competition improves quality)
3. I believe in freedom of religious expression in public places.
4. I am against redefinition of marriage to include same-sex couples.
5. I am against "reverse discrimination" affirmative action.
6. I am pro-Israel.
7. I am against extensive bilinigual education (get students learning in English as quickly as possible).
8. I am for unilateral US military action - IF our national security is at risk, and IF all diplomatic channels have been exhausted.
9. I am for increased globalism to stimulate economic growth in the developing world.
Liberal aspects:
1. I am for responsible environmental management.
2. I am for reducing the tax burden on the working class and poor.
3. I am for a two-state solution to Israel-Palestine.
4. I am for globally reduced military buildup.
5. I believe our government should extensively fund research into alternative energy sources, electric cars, etc.  We should do everything possible to eliminate our reliance on fossil fuels, and build a long-term sustainable society.
6. I am for strong anti-trust protection, and the encouragement of competition over monopolies.
7. I am for strong securities regulations to prevent stock fraud and restore investor confidence in our markets.
8. I believe in encouraging immigration, especially of skilled labor - we should actively encourage a "reverse brain drain."

What the hell was I thinking?  It occurs to me that the use of prescription lenses weaken our species.  600 years ago, only about 2% of the population or less had poor eyesight.  It remained an occassional aberation because if you had bad eyes, you stumbled off a cliff before you passed on your genes.  So humans could see very well.  But since the invention of glasses, nearly-blind people can live long enough to have children, to pass on the bad-eyesight gene.  By now, the portion of the population having bad eyesight will be around one-fifth.  And that's only going to get bigger!

I guess we're figuring out the difference between 'compassionate' and 'conservative' eh, rightwingnut?  No need to let any of that compassion get in our way.

One of the reasons for it being so nice with a red avatar, you know... ;)

But Saudia Arabia, an otherwise very rightist state has one of the best systems of socialized medicine in the world.  Keep the peasants happy and silent if you give them free drugs and bandages, right?  So it's not quite that simple gustaf.  Sorry, you know I like to take a big dump on the easy questions just to make 'em think harder, because, unlike Ross Perot used to say, it is not "just that simple people."

Okay, no more demagoguery for me.  I must contribute to the GDP today.

Well, I don't see it affecting my point, since it's rightist, as you say. Now, i guess if you'd brought up Cuba it would've been different... ;)

Seriously, I value civil liberties much higher than medicine, at least in theory.

As do I young swede.  That's why mine is blue.  :)

Ah, and why mine is red. :)

Way to go, GWBfan!

We're ing up the natural evolution towards a more fit gene pool.  Unless we stop, it will be our downfall as a specie.

That's almost Opebo-like...I'm a humanist myself, so I obivously don't agree with your sentiment.

This has been an extremely interesting thread. As for natural selection, guys, it's too late to try and reverse a lot of the things we've brought onto ourselves. Like bad eyesight. If somoene has bad eyesight nowadays, they're going to get glasses. Oh well.

I find one thing very amusing, and that's how in such short periods of time, the idea of a "liberal" idea and a "conservative" idea have been twisted around. Fiscal responsibility could actually be taken away from the Republicans, if the Democrats play their cards right. Humanitarian Aid used to be a liberal idea, now it's the driving force for why we went into Iraq, since the first argument about WMDs threatening us didn't pan out.

I'm pretty moderate. I vote for Democrats and Republicans alike. I may vote for Nader in 2004, since MD isn't exactly a "swing state."

1. I'm for free trade, but in order to fix problems that NAFTA creates, you can't REPEAL it, that just makes the problem worse. Help make NAFTA better, that should be a concern for anyone who doesn't like it.

2. I'd support a Balanced Budget Amendment.

3. With the deficit rising, social security funding needs to be slightly cut (as does defense spending, though), and social programs need to be analyzed. Those which truly aren't benefiting anyone need to be scrapped. Lower taxes is great, but I'll pay them if it helps the majority of my generation.

4. Race-based affirmative action should be scrapped. I would probably support a class-based affirmative action.

5. Against gay marriage in name, but give the queers their civil unions, that has EVERY benefit of heterosexual marriage. Social security, hospital visits, etc.

6. Less stringent enviornmental regulations. Keep the necessary ones in place, but states like Oregon and Washington take a big hit with stupid-!@#$ enviornmental laws. There are a lot of things that happent to the earth (most of them are NATURAL). In a billion years the sun will collapse anyway, so there.

7. I'm not staunchly against faith-based charity programs, but before you use these, make sure the non-faith based ones are receiving adequate attention.

8. I'm against imperialism masqueading as "humanitarian aid." If you're going to help out crappy countries, there are ones in more dire straits than Iraq.

9. The secularism in America is becoming ridiculous. Teachers can't say the word God or wear a cross around their neck, and the !@#$ing Christmas Vacation, the week off from school that kids love, has become the "Non-Denominational Winter Holiday Break".


On the flip side, I'm very much pro-choice, pro-welfare (true, honest reform is extremely difficult without hurting those who are legitimately using it), anti-capital punishment, pro-immigration, and a strong supporter of public schools (and making them better).

In my country a teacher can always wear a cross, a star, a veil, an ankh, a wheel, a yin-yang symbol, or whatever they like.  I hope.  This is not USSR (or France).  Nor will you ever hear the word secularism pass my lips, except in reference to the statements of others.  It is a silly word describing an artificial concept for people with narrow minds who disdain religion.  In fact, it is a replacement for religion.  Since I am not religious and have no need for religion, I have no need for any replacement thereof.  

With the exception of welfare, I agree with everything you posit "on the flip side."

Secularism is about separating church from state. People's private religious beliefs are all fine by me. Religious traditions that has become national, popular traditions, such as Christmas break is different and shouldn't be messed up by PC, liberal idiots...

Ooh, ooh, another thing. Political Correctness is getting rather ridiculous, but that's only because blowhards like Bill O'Reilly mention the most EXTREME cases in their shows that happen in some messed up part of town.

Legitimate political correctness is actually a good thing, whether you like it or not. There are old stereotypes and slurs that truly do offend people, and truly are mean-spirited (I don't like how "retarded" and "gay" have become names used to degrade others). But that's the liberal side of me kicking in.

No, separation of church and state is about separation of church and state.  I'm all for that.  Secularism is a form of mental masturbation.  You're making me use that nasty word secularism again, but it's important to make this point.  Of all the myths spawned by the Enlightenment, the idea of secularism is the most absurd.  Throughout much of the world, religion is thriving with undiminished vitality. Where believers are in the minority, as they are in your country today, traditional faiths have been replaced by liberal humanism, which is now established as the unthinking creed of conventional people. Yet liberal humanism is itself very obviously a religion -- a shoddy derivative of Christian faith notably more irrational than the original article, and in recent times more harmful.

If you have no religion, I have no problem with that.  If you do, I have no problem with that.  If you feel the need to invent new words to describe your condition because no such word previously existed, I have no problem with that.  But secularism is a false concept.  I need to get to work, but this subject needs its due, so I'll think about it a bit more to see if I can explain more clearly.

Preach it, brother.

I know some homosexuals who use gay as a derogatory term.

That's different, and you know it. Not the same as some obnoxious ten year-old running around calling another kid a f****t.

For the most part, Political Correctness belongs only in official documents and statements that should be correct in every manner not just politically.

However, when refering to a Native American, one shouldn't call him/her an Indian; the two are different groups.  That's more of avoiding stupidity than being Politically Correct though, getting the wrong hemisphere and all.  Similar cases of stupidity should be avoided not for Political Correctness but more in the name of a concious effort to not sound like you couldn't find and name more than 5 geographical or political features on a globe.

Calling someone a n, a gook, a wetback, or any other similarly intoned term is probably not the best way to avoid conflict.  Unless you're picking a fight it would be wise to avoid such terminology, if you don't and get shot then you earned your death.  Of course if you are picking a fight, then go right ahead.

I have a few minutes to drink a cup of coffee and read this.  I agree with of_this_nation that it is one of the most interesting threads.  Thanks to ian for creating it.  

Rightwingnut, you stated pretty clearly the real problem, which is one of ignorance.  One small point:  We were taught in school that Indians were from India, whereas indians are the native peoples of the Americas.  Capital I = asia, lower case i = americas.  But yes, that label came from the fact that the officers and crew of the Santa Maria thought they were in the East Indies.  Nowadays, the official term in the US government (census bureau, for example) is Native American.  Probably better because it is more accurate.  And yes, if you don't want to get slapped hard (or maybe shot), don't use any of those other nasty words.

Gustaf,
I searched around on the web for some material to support my thesis, but could find none, and since expressing an original thought would break the time-honored tradition in this forum of only positing viewpoints which have been expressed by others before, I should use that as a copout.  But I won't.  I still need to think of why the term secularism offends me so much, but it has more to do with general misunderstanding of Western Civilization, and World Civilization, than political correctness.  Although the PC thought-police and book-burning leftists are rather offensive also.  And frightening!  And, now that I think about it, given that political correctness offends me so much, it is the height of hypocrisy for me to tell you what words you should use to describe your version of religion.  So, in that enlightened vein, I say be my guest.  Use whatever silly notion gets you through the day.  But you are far too intelligent not to realize that Liberal Humanism is definitely one form.  And if religion be the opiate of the people, then let them have their favorite poppy fruit, for I shall certainly have mine.  


Long long ago, In China I'm told
To England was traded some tea
And so sealed the fate
In pieces of eight
All England and all of the world
Yeah...poppies
When soon his majesty
sent soldiers and thieves
To India Searching for gold
Instead from the ground
Some magic they found
Something far better I'm told
Yeah...poppies
And now this story told
from days of our own
When gossamer doggies ran ran
They'd patiently wait
With pieces of eight
So everybody could smile one more time
Yeah...poppies
            --J.Wozniak (marcy playground)

The success of the French Revolution is testament to the lasting power of "secularism."  This is why in France, to this day, there are no churches, only "Temples of Reason," and they are still operating on a 10-day week (the 7-day, Exodus-mandated week is SO out of touch!).  No, wait, I forgot, the Revolution failed miserably (if you read the Illuminatus! Trilogy, you will understand that Equality and Brotherhood can only exist in the absence of Liberty :P).

angus, you keep saying your country, where are you from? if you don't mind me asking.

The United States of America.

then why do you keep saying YOUR country to fellow Americans? surely it is yours as well?

I said your country to Gustaf.  Have I also used that phrase with US nationals?  If so, it was accidental.  

oh ok, I thought you had referred to others too, maybe I was mistaken though.

Angus,

I will, however unwillingly, admit to being a little, well, stupid, in my last post... :(

I should of course have realized that secularISM, was an ism of some sort and my assumption of what it referred to was rather unfounded. I do believe in secular humanism as the basis on which to found a society and I am willing to agree that it's a moral belief, just like a religion. And my country is relatively secular, yes, at least the society is.

I personally am pro-idea and anti-belief.  When you believe in something then your mental faculties are weakened by the constraints those beliefs bring.  That's my idea at the moment.  Ideas are in the end evanescent, I think.

How do you define the difference between an idea and a belief?

An idea can change by a brief logical discussion; a belief may never change and if it does, it will take repeated sessions or an enlightenment to change.

Ah, OK. Then beliefs are linked to morality...I see where you're going, and I'm afraid I won't be traveling with you to the land of moral relativism... ;)

I am honored to make a fantastic Republican's acquaintance, although it has little to do with the Election of 2004.

angus, about my anti-censorship belief, I thought it was conservative because many conservatives want to censor the televison from pornography, cussing, and anything immoral.

Like that thing against Harry Potter.  "Suffer not a witch to live" and all that.  There was a Simpsons episode about that too.

Well, Democrats have been more willing to admit to their differences w/ their party than Republicans, and so far, here are the stats.

Most liberal aspect as far as conservatives go...
#4: With one vote each
• Anti-discrimination of gays in workplaces
• Pro-Gun Control
• Anti-School Vouchers
• Pro-Fair Trade
• Pro-Welfare
• Pro-Gambing
• Pro-Affirmative Action
#3: With two votes each:
• Pro-Gay Marriage/Civil Union
• Pro-Immigration
#2: With three votes each:
• Anti-Death Penalty
• Legalization of Prostitution
• Legalization of Drugs
#1: With four votes each:
• Pro-choice

Most conservative aspect as far as liberals go...
#5: With one vote each
• Anti-environment
• Pro-tax cuts
• Pro-states' rights
#4: With two votes
• Pro-war with Iraq
#3: With three votes each
• Pro-school vouchers
• Anti-gay marriage
#2: With four votes
• Pro-life
...and with the outstanding leads...
#1: With seven votes each:
• Anti-Affirmative Action
• Pro-Free Trade

I refused to put things like "pro-small gov't" b/c I don't know of anyone that doesn't support a small gov't.  I refused to put "balance the budget" b/c liberals & conservatives have been more opposite than historically possible since 1980.  I refused to put "Political Correctness" or "Anti-Censorship" b/c these had such a debate over which was a liberal or conservative institution.  Etc, etc, etc.  So, there you go!

I should probably chime in and add that I am VERY strongly pro-immigration.  As long as people are coming to this country legally I have no problem and I think that we should enhance our screening process while at the same time allowing more people to come in.  America was built on immigration and I think that our policy should reflect this.

If you could break it down to who said what so we would have a guid eot work on without going back through all of the posts the would be nice.  (wide-eyed-smile)  :)

Not me.  I feel that without my beliefs, I have nothing to live for.  You guys will notice that I use the words 'feel' and 'believe' more than I do 'think' or 'have an idea'.  That's not an accident, that is very reflective of my personality.

That's not to say that I don't think, it's just that my heart and my head are constatly at war with eachother and my heart usually wins out.  I guess you could say that that's not typical of the old conservative stereotypes.

My most conservative beliefs are:

Pro-Free Trade (although more like Kerry's 'Fair Trade', then Bushes 'let business go to Bahama')

Believe in the need for massive reform in government entitlements
we give way too much to maintain family farms and such. Since agribusiness is the present and future, it lowers our productivity to have little ole family farms

I'm all for Greenspan's thought that we need to reduce Social Security benefits in some way.  The whole thing stopped being a 'thank you American worker' gift in the last 20 years and is now some gruesome Robin Hood-esque way to take from the young to give to the old.

I personally think the retirment age should be 73-ish (that's roughly the age Reagan left office, right? :)

The current version of affirmative action is pretty bad i'll admit.  I am against all affirmative action for college admission (full disclosure:  I'm Indian [of the Asian variety] , and I'm pretty damn tired of people thinking that I got my scholarships because I'm not white. Most rational people know that Asians are no-longer beneficiaries of AA anymore, but many people just assume that because we are brown, that everything we do is because of AA)   .  I'm against it when it comes to color, to being rich, to being an important person's son, etc.   Well I overstated myself, I am for some sort of affirmative action for the very poor.

I'm Indian too, though I'm pure Brahmin Aryan all the way back to the invasion 5000 years ago, whiter than most crackers here who have all sorts of mixed blood.  In any case, AA hurts Asians much more than it helps us.  However, even in this arch-conservative stronghold turned ultra-liberal community most people I know that AA helped were against it both before and after it helped them.  I honestly don't think that AA is a lib/con issue.  It's more of the Dems courting minorities en masse.

I think that if "we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" then it is hypocritical to say that some groups should get special treatment by the government.  That includes minorities of all types: ethnic, economic, etc.  Also including disabled people.  It's like that episode of the Simpsons when Homer is in the Retirement Home and sees how some of the old people have their food chewed for them.

"And all this time I was chewing for myself."

Interesting.  It was said, once upon a time, that Democrats think with their hearts and Republicans think with their heads.  Now it's all mixed up.  I feel that I usually think, except when I feel.  I think.

Ian, thanks for the breakdown.  And the formal welcome to your discussion topic.  You should take a look at the Libertarian Party's "World's smallest political quiz"
http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

Mind you, I am NOT a Libertarian, but I get the following result:
Your Personal Self-Government Score is 100%.
Your Economic Self-Government Score is 80%.

I'm in favor of a bigger government in terms of economic affairs. I support much less government in social affairs, though, so overall, I guess I don't support a "bigger government", just a shift in government priorities.

Though, since I'm making a career of working in government, I suppose I do have a biased view on that. Since "smaller government" means "fewer government jobs".

What part of the U.S. government deals with 'Social affairs'?

several created by President Carter, I think.   and Kucinich has a few more ideas for interesting departments, like a department of Peace.

Angus,

Department of Peace...Kucinich is funnier than any Saturday Night Live skit.

Agree with most of this.  Section 8 housing is a big pro- conservative issue for me being from NE Philly.  I'm basically for limiting, not eliminating it because a lot of people on it are lazy drug addicts that stay up all night and blast their rap music while I'm trying to sleep.  Solution- Job training and increased college/vocational grants.  It's not fair that I and others have to work for a living and these lazy people are living next to me.    

If they're going to be lazy they deserve nothing from the government.  That's the fundamental problem with any welfare system.  If the system was only available to those who are looking actively for gainful empolyment but can't either due to a bad jobs market, poor training, or the lack of a permanent address, then the system would work much better.

This is from the Finnish/European perspective:

I consider myself as conservative, but I am

1) Pro trade unions
2) Pro universal healthcare (Well, most European conservatives are. And I'd like to see that it would be produced by private companies. This is the conservative position in most European countries, btw)
3) Pro civil unions.

I'm conservative on civil rights.  I'm staunchly against things like quotas and special treatment because of ethnicity or gender.

    Economically I'm so right-wing I agree with libertarians more than I do Reps. But in social terms I have to say things like gay marriage, AA, banning the death penalty, and others make me a little uneasy (although I confess that the gay marriage issue is a very complex one, don't misunderstand!).
    However, one of my liberal traits is that I think we should legalize drugs in order to:

1. Rid our streets of gangs
2. Lower the price of these drugs and therefore decrease drug related crimes
3. Refocus our police forces to stop underage drug use and more important crimes
4. Rid our prisons of drug abusers and replace them with real criminals
5. Get rid of the illegal drug-oriented government agencies
6. Give people a huge-ass tax cut

    Sorry for the rant. I figured my position needed a little defending. I only want to do this because I feel it is a better alternative then what we have now. In other words, I in no way condone drug use.

My most conservative traits are...
1) Pro Free Trade
2) Pro Privatisation (apart from health, social security)
3) I'm strongly in favour of Personal Responsibility
4) Pro Nuclear Deterent.

People are amazed at the fact that I usually oppose gun control.

But I think this view is pretty consistent with my other views.

I'd say the only thing  that I am Conservative on is finishing Iraq (although I was against the war & disagree with the way Bush & co has led the war) I do think we need to finish the job & not pull out (not really a Conservative only position as many liberals including Kerry feel we need to finish the job there, but its the only thing I can think of that I am more conservative on)

My most liberal position is on NAFTA. I am for an  "America First" trade policy.

Besides being conservative on civil rights, I also think we should be extensively drilling off the Californian and Floridian Coasts and ANWAR.

I am for more gun control.

Why should people not be able to defend themselves?

The Democratic party has moved enough to the right that I don't think I have the Republican party's position on anything. That said, there are some issues that I don't care much about like gun control and immigration.

No, don't get me wrong--I think people should be able to have guns.  In fact, if someone robs your house w/ a knife, gun, or hammer, I think you have every right to kill them for your safety.  And if you injure them--they shouldn't be able to sue you.  I just see know need for a semi-auto rifle to do this.

I forgot imigration--I think illegal aliens should be deported, and the borders be tightened, but we still should have some immigration.

I had a batch of ver 'liberal' positions (like legalising prostitution within defined areas) and very 'conservative' ones (more private schools and ability streaming) which when they come together appear to cancel each other out on the political compass :) Thank god for the Political Matrix!

This isn't a very Libertarian friendly thread. :P

That being said, here are a few non-libertarian things of mine.

Very Pro-Capital Punishment
Moderate on Environment
Moderate on Defense
Anti-Illegal Immigration
Pro-Minimum Wage

I don't oppose reasonable increases in the minimum wage, though I don't think the minimum wage can ever be a truly living wage.

I am more supportive of mass transit, and research for alternative energy sources, than the typical Republican/conservative.

I don't condemn gay relationships from a personal point of view, though I oppose calling them marriage, and my personal preference is to hang out with predominantly heterosexual people, though I have a few friends who are gay.

I am very tolerant, even supportive, of raunchy jokes and stories, and certain types of 'bad' behavior, though I think the stereotype that conservatives don't like this type of thing is a false stereotype.

At work, I am considered one of the most liberal managers from a personnel development point of view -- in the sense that people working under me have a lot of freedom to make their own decisions and strike out on their own initiative without my direct control.

I'm mostly liberal, but I do tend to want gov't out of business, i hate things like affirmative action and the sort, business owners should be able to hire/not hire anyone they please. 

My conservative aspects:

- I'm STRONGLY pro-life, and I never understood why it should be a leftist position to support Nazi-like mass murder.

- I support free trade (with the "liberal" intention that it would help the poor countrys).

- I oppose affirmative action in most cases.

- I oppose gun control.

and:

- as a nonsmoker I strongly oppose smoking bans, though I'm not sure if this is a conservative or a liberal position...

Decriminalizing the use of marijuana.

I'm opposed to affirmative action due to my life experiences.

In the US that's mostly conservative. Pretty much every single city with a smoking ban in Minnesota voted for Kerry. Of course that's also where all the good bars anyway.

Same here. Those on the left tend to support smoking bans.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Addendum: The Sierra Club.  Those clowns killed the extension of NJ Route 55 in South Jersey to the shore.  It needs to be built and the current configuration to Wildwood/Cape May is much more environmentally damaging in my opinion. 

1 Antiglobalist in terms of thingsl ike the UN but mixed on free trade(I'm for a common market with the other angloshpere nations, and mexico(to boost its standards up). We need to get out of the UN, WTO and NATO right now.
2 Anti-affirmative action and being for states rights when it comes to race(except for attempting to block suffrage). The way I see it is this: if there's a consensus for eqality among the voters in a starte that's good but its not the federal govenrment's duty to interfere in that.
3 Pro-life. It may not be one of my hot button issues but I still beleive that.
4 I support draconian measures for crime(not victimless crimes which I'd legalize) Remember mussolini's italy and Castro's cuba broke the mafia in their territories so we need additional measure.
5 Willing to go with the hard right when it comes to domestic security. If we
6 Anti arab muslim/african/nonarab muslim immigration. Also against letting refugees/the poor. We need more middle class and higher immigration along wit trying to get more immigrants from the first world/second world instea.
7 In favor of having english set as the official language. If you want to speak spansih go back to mexico. Look at Canada's problems with its frenchspeaking minority to see what I'd rather avoid.
8 I want to repeal gun control legislation

I'm fairly conservative on Guns, but there are few issues that I won't try to find a common ground on.

I support free trade
I oppose public financing of campaigns (no way I should pay for some hate-filled conservative's run for office)
I oppose smoking bans

I am a Democratic Hawk.  I believe in high spending on the military(Not quite at the level we're at under Bush due to the Iraq War, but still far higher than more liberal Democrats.)

I am sort of pro-guns.  But this is almost exclusively for hunting.  Hand guns are iffy, and I think you should have to justify carrying one.  Owning one is not a problem though.

Crimes involving guns should have severe penalties.

I'm not really "pro-gun" despite what some posters claim. I'm more anti-gun laws, because I think they're pointless, and don't accomplish anything other than lose the Democrats votes. I think the obsession over guns some have is pretty stupid too, but there's nothing that can be done about that.

Despite that, that's still probably my most conservative issue.

1. Scale of Fed. Govt.
2. Trade Policy

1)I am Pro-Life
2)I am Pro School Vouchers.

1. I support a progressive tax system
2. I support increasing education spending
3. I support importing perscription drugs and allowing the government to bargain for lower prices.
4. I believe that children should have everything provided for them if their parents can't (that includes healthcare). And that stops when you become an adult.
5. I support stricter environmental laws and controls.

Wow that is almost exactly like me.

For me, everything the previous poster just said, except add on "Very Tolerant to Gay Rights," and delete number four, and replace it with support for basic universal health care.

I support the prohibition of alcohol and tobacco.

I'm completely opposed to race based affirmative action.

I also oppose gay marriage, but that's not really that conservative.

I'm also fairly hawkish really.

Many of my key issues run against the platforms of both major parties.  Especially the censorship of various media and decriminalization of victimless crimes.  It's unfortunate that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" have become so loaded with animosity when used in the US, it's totally changed the meaning of the words.  I've always self identified as a conservative, but I'm not conservative.  Not in the traditional sense of the word or how it's used today in America.  But I can't call myself a liberal obviously, the right in this country has turned it into an insult and changed the meaning of the word.

Sorry, that rant wasn't really needed I guess. :)

1.  I'm more hawkish on foreign policy than most
2.  I oppose most affirmative action programs.

I supported the war in Iraq, and I still support it.

I'm pro NAFTA and free trade.

1. I tend to think the U.S. should be a world leader and intervene when necessary in foreign affairs.

2. I despise abortion and only see it as a necessary evil. 

3. The death penalty for murderers doesn't bother me.  Also, I'm against trials for terrorists, I'd rather us just shoot them.  To me if you're a killer, you've failed as a human being and used the gift of life to destory others... so I have no compassion for you. 

4. I don't think taxpayers should prop up failing art institutions.

5. As progressive as they are, and so am I, I really do think West Coast latte liberals are f'in pussies. 

1)I am though nominally pro-choice(Only due to being rational and knowing that outlawing it would do nothing), I personally hate abortion due to my catholicism.

2)I am VERY big on the military and believe it should be given greater funding.  I would support the Iraq War if it had been done right.

3)Anti-drug legalisation

And there are some more I can't think of off the top of my head.

Anti-race-based affirmative action.

Can't think of much else, though I do support bans on smoking with children around.

Pro-School Vouchers
Pro-life
I'm for Bush's missile defense system (if that counts)
Anti-Affirmative action

anti affirmative action
anti massive illegal immigrant legalization
anti drug-legalization
pro-NAFTA and free trade

That's actually a free market conservative position.

wouldn't care if we stayed in Iraq a bit longer if that would do any good (not sure that it would though, it's a cold button issue right now)
anti- affirmative action
pro- vouchers
pro- free trade
pro- police & keeping the death penalty as an option

1. I'm pro-school choice
2. I support free trade
3. I support eliminating the corporate income tax
4. I support income-based affirmative action
5. I'm pro-nuclear power
6. I oppose corporate welfare

Free Trade - Generally anti-tariffs and pro-open markets. However, I support reforming NAFTA and subsidies for industries like steel.
Business Tax Cuts - Big proponent of this.
Balanced Budget - Discretionary spending and tax deductions are out of control. We need a Balanced Budget Amendment and/or other serious reforms.
Social Security - Needs to be scaled back. We phase it out for most and encourage private savings.
Regulation - Very Cynical in this area. I tend to view regulations as nonsensical and biased against small business. Large corporations have the resources to ignore or challenge even basic ones.
Education - For some vouchers; charter schools. For school uniforms and bringing back discipline. Very hostile to what I view as bureaucracy (e.g. No Child Left Behind; Department of Education).
Minimum Wage - Against. It's ineffective and often has unintended consequences.
Gun Control - Generally against, especially at the federal level.
Affirmative Action - Should not be race based because that's unconstitutional.
Faith Based Charities - Okay with allowing regulated use of funds.
Immigration - Against amnesty/'earned citizenship'; guest worker programs. I'm not so sure about current immigration levels either.
Environment - For ANWR and off-shore drilling, very pro-Nuclear Power, against arbitrary emissions caps, concerned about over-regulation.

I don't particularly like Change, I just dislike Hierarchial Snobbery and Smugness even more.

Liberal
1 I favor UHC on the swiss model.
2  I support the age of consent being lowered to 12 or so
3 I believe in abolishing the pledge of alleigance.
4 I believe in abolishing all government grants to faith based programs
5 I believe in legalizing all drugs

Conservative
1 I oppose every regulation on gun ownership passed since the national firearm act got passed sometime in the 30s
2 I oppose any form of restrictions on purchase and use of tobacco.
3 I believe in annexing Mexico and turning it into 25 or so states. Mexicans make good americans so the choice is obvious.
4 I oppose immigration to the US whether it's temporary or permanent. We have enough people as is already so why further strain the environment.
5 I believe in western culture being desirable, and it should be promoted.

Yeah. I'm a corporate suck-up.  As I've said before, I might be the only person in America who supports eliminating the corporate income tax and the cap on payroll taxes.

I support the Death Penalty
I support Nuclear Power (though I don't see this as a dem vs rep thing)
I support NAFTA and free trade
I am against drug legalization (for example: pot)
For the most part I liked Bush's immigration plan that was shot down
I don't support bio-deisel (I don't think it adresses evironmental concerns.)

Me too. That used to be a conservative position. But now the FOX News conservatives are all nativists, so I guess that more of a "liberal" position.

It was sad to see it taken down so quickly from all sides, especially because it was probably one of the two or three things I liked about the Bush administration.

I consider myself a pragmatic conservative since I want a balanced budget, a non-interventionist foreign policy and to stop social engineering.

I am for an high military spending.
I am against drug legalisation.
I am against affirmative action. You should be selected because of your abilities. That is inverted racism.

Don't be fooled.  The McCain/Bush/Kennedy immigration plan was pro-business, not pro-immigrant.

Wow! You were right after all! I now know for sure who the real conservative is!

Pro-choice
Pro-stem cell research
Pro-civil unions (but don't call call it marriage)
Pro-gun control (just background checks)
Legalization of prostitution, assisted suicide (if you want to kill yourself go right ahead)
More funding for education (although I think we need to return controls of the schools to the states and counties, not the federal government.

Oppose Affirmative Action
Favor Death Penalty

I have some purely moderate stances that could go either way:

Believe in free trade in economic principle, but not always practice.
Favor welfare reform
Taxes-  Should be raised temporarily, but make severe budget cuts to pay down debt then reduce taxes.  I don't believe anyone should have to pay mroe than 50% of their income in taxes.

In case anyone thinks I'm completely a DINO I'm also pro-Choice, pro-gay rights (marriage included), anti-War on Drugs, anti-death penalty, pro-universal health-care, oppose the Bush tax cuts, support expanding EITC, pro-Trade Assistance, opposed Bush's SS privatization plan, support Net Neutrality, support Clean Election laws, oppose the Iraq War, oppose any military action in Iran, think the military budget is bloated, and very cautious about supporting Israel (to the left of most Dems).

And of course some of my prior positions on issues like Trade could actually go either way.

Legalizing drugs, gambling, prostitution
Opposition to nation building

Basically I'm old school conservative rather than a neo-con

You're right..all those conservative European countries were flagships for Universal Health Care.

I support bi-partisan measures to-

* Support the Heller v. D.C. decision
* Support the "Castle Doctrine"
* Support increasing the minimium of the Estate Tax to $10,000,000.00 net worth.
* Support the United States' role as a global leader (initially supported the Iraq war)
* Support restrictions on Eminent Domain and Stringent Zoning Codes in low-density areas
* Oppose restrictions on Tobbaco products and use
* Oppose Universal Health Care measures that mandate insurance ownership
* Support the addition of tissues for donation into the market once a reliable source for  organs and tissues for transplants are found

However, I am morally disgusted by these Republican programs, suggestions and supported practices-

* The support Civil Immunity for Medical Torts (In some of these cases, you have to be evil to let those responsible off the hook)
* The continued support for Insurance Company Client Dumping or Refusal
* The support for the prosecutions of abortions in the first trimester when the woman involved cannot carry the pregnancy to term  without the cause of a permanent disability to the fetus or woman involved.
* The continued support Extrajudicial Punishment and Searches
* The support for Execution of non-Homicidal offenders
* The continued violent persecution of Non-Violent soft drug users
* The continued opposition to supporting Stem Cell Research

Pro-Choice
Pro-Stem Cell Research
Pro-Civil Unions
Legalization of prostitution, assisted suicide.
I support a bare minimum "safety net".

I support removing trade tariffs on other countries.
I oppose restrictions on tobacco products and use.  (Other than an age limit)
I oppose public financing of campaigns and am wary of campaign finance reform in general (free speech concerns).
I oppose social engineering taxes (excise taxes on legal products deemed sinful or harmful).

Pro legalized gay marriage
Pro the ponzi social security scheme
guns should be regulated
pro land use controls
Support public financing of campaigns in the sense that if one candidate spends over a limit, the other guy gets funds.

I'm generally opposed to eminent domain (though I realize it is necessary in some cases).

Why is that a conservative position in your opinion?

He's so far left that to him that is conservative.

     I support gay marriage, universal health care, & legalization of most drugs. I'm not very conservative, though I usually take moderate to right-wing stances outside of those issues.

- Foreign policy wise I've always been a knee-jerk hawk
- I'm not against guns. I own one, and like them. I don't think people should have assault weapons, but I support concealed carry.
- Against Partial Birth Abortion
- I think most smoking bans border on being literally retarded. I also oppose over-taxing cigarettes because it just winds up as a tax on the working class, and is really a case of punishing people just because they choose to engage in a habit that you yourself don't enjoy.

- I'm pro-death penalty under certain conditions.

- I essentially oppose the continution of affirmative action programs (although I see how it could be needed in certain situations).

- I have mixed feelings on gun rights issues.

- In some ways, I could be considered a "traditional conservative'' on foreign policy issues.

- I'm against most forms of "political correctness".

Only the last two issues are really that important to me personally.

I oppose racial quotas (of course most liberals do too, so I don't really see that as the "liberal" position anyway...)

Oh here is another one.

I support limited gun control measures.  That puts me at odds with most liberals on this forum.

-- I sometimes support the use of military force.  I supported both Clinton's strikes in Kosovo and the war in Afghanistan. 

-- I support the death penalty for certain heinous crimes.  I supported the execution of Timothy McVeigh, Ted Bundy and would support the execution of Osama Bin Laden.

-- While not a deficit "hawk," I want to see it on a declining trajectory.

-- I remain skeptical about eminent domain.  I thought Kelo v. New London was a bad decision by the Supreme Court.  Justice O'Connor's dissent got it right on that one.

-- I support the right to bear arms with some restrictions. 

-- I oppose legalization of recreational drugs except marijuana. 

Most libertarians have a retarded  nationalistic idea of foreign policy that involves pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist.  I'm a neoliberal who doesn't believe in the sanctity of national boundaries (I would give more power to the UN if I could).  Nationalism scares me.  That's about it. 

I am rather liberal, but my more conservative opinions are mostly related to:
-Family Issues
-Israel
-Affirmative Action
-Military Conscription

I am against divorce and single-parent households, but I wouldn't support a ban on divorce either. I just wish some action were taken to give kids dads.

I support Israel fully, although I'm in favor of a two-state solution and I would like to see peace.

I am entirely against affirmative action. I'm mixed so I can take advantage of it, but it shouldn't be an excuse to class differences and a lack of education for the poor.

And I favor two years of military conscription, but I'm also a pacifist who would like to see a "Department of Peace"

Everything else I am very liberal on except a few issues here and there.

I lean more to the liberal side; my more conservative positions are mostly economic. I'm anti-deficit and I support simplifying corporate taxes.

I suppose my entire foreign policy is conservative, and my economic policy is mostly liberal.

Your foreign policy isn't conservative. The conservative foreign policy is isolationism. Conservatives have adopted imperialism recently, but that is not a trait inherent in American conservatism.

One more issue: Gambling. I absolutely hate casinos. They're tacky, attract asshole tourists, breed crime, and are easily as addictive as drugs. And no, they don't contribute to the economy because they do not produce much of anything of value besides (often low wage) jobs. If places like Nevada want them FINE but keep the filth and shell games out of my state please.

Conservation and Animal Rights.

I am very Left on the economy.

Same here ,but little to conservative on social stuff.

I consider that foreign policy to be liberal and non-interventionism to be conservative.

-- Pro-gay marriage (I'm not gay and have no friends/family that are gay.  It's just that I don't see what the big deal is.)

-- Pro-animal rights legislation

-- In favor of legalization of all drugs (could this be considered a "liberal" position?)

-- In favor of allowing abortion in cases of rape, incest, or danger to life of the mother

-- Opposed to a Right to Life Amendment (I am pro-life but think it should be left up to the states)

-- Conflicted when it comes to foreign policy, not sure where I stand (though I guess you can't really put a Conservative lablel on foreign policy right now)

-- Conflicted on capital punishment.

Maybe you should change to yellow?

I support the Democrats on such issues as: embryonic stem cell research, marijuana, gun control, and to an extent, abortion.

As for economic policy, I'm strongly opposed to privatizing social security, I support public financing, and support sending foreign aid to poorer countries (like Darfur).

Maybe, but I support the PATRIOT Act.  And I think Roe v. Wade was a horrible decision.  I guess I'm a fiscal conservative above all else, and base only the tiniest portion of my vote on social issues.  Personally, I think all capital- L Libertarians would be better served by voting for Republican presidential candidates.

P.S.  I edited my previous post to add the fact that I'm undecided on capital punishment. 

Fiercely anti-gun control

Good for you.

Updated:
Free Trade - Very pro-free trade. We need more trade, particularly with allies like South Korea, Colombia, etc. I do not like the direction many in the party are going on this.
Business Tax Cuts - The tax rate needs to be simplified (i.e. less loop holes) and lowered for small business.
Balanced Budget - Discretionary spending and tax deductions are out of control. We need a Balanced Budget Amendment and/or other serious reforms.
Social Security - I support privatizing it. Give people the choice of investing in bonds, equities, etc. like Galveston County did.
Regulation - Very Cynical in this area. I tend to view regulations as nonsensical and biased against small business.
Education - Strongly for vouchers and making charter schools standard. For school uniforms and bringing back discipline. Very hostile to what I view as bureaucracy (e.g. No Child Left Behind; Department of Education).
Minimum Wage - Against. It's ineffective and often has unintended consequences. Leave to the states at minimum and expand Earned Income Tax Credit instead.
Gun Control - Pretty strongly against except for screening out the criminal or disturbed.
Affirmative Action - Should be income based, not race based because that's unconstitutional.
Death Penalty - I support it with use of DNA evidence.
Faith Based Charities - I support government working with religious charities in some way.
Immigration - Against amnesty/'earned citizenship'; guest worker programs. We need to focus on skilled workers too.
Environment - For ANWR and off-shore drilling, very pro-Nuclear Power, concerned about over-regulation or stupid laws infringing on my rights.
War in Iraq - We are winning and need to finish the job.

--Pro-universal healthcare.
--Pro-progressive taxation
--Pro-gay marriage
--Anti-war on drugs.
--Pro-legalizing prostitution (only if it's very heavily regulated).
--Pro-4th amendment.

     That's all I can think of for now.

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on the Patriot Act?

     Strongly oppose (which is funny because I originally supported Giuliani :P).

     As for pro-4th amendment, I wanted something that captured the political spirit of euphemisms that don't really describe the position (like pro-life & pro-choice).

If it wasn't for his extreme authoritarian tendencies (like attempting to cancel elections) I would have supported Rudy too.

     He & McCain were the only ones who sounded remotely sane on social issues. When it looked like McCain was finished, Giuliani was the only real option for me.

We don't agree on anything but this one believe it or not.

You think we should have a flat tax?

NO the tax system is fine the way it is.

The Rich just need to pay a little more.

No tax on Seniors that are still having to work is about the only change I would like to see.

Just checking, you didn't say you agreed with that too.

Maybe he didn't know what "progressive taxation" is?

     That seems likely.

Well, considering some of Mike's other stances I really have no idea what to expect.

Reaching huh?

Or I guess in forum terms it starts with T and ends with L

Of Course you know iam for spreading the wealth. LOL

To clear up something you said before about blue dogs being conservative on spending.
Yes, they are as in the politicans, however not the base they play to. A major misconception about southern people is that they don't like programs.

For a second I thought you said pogroms.  Lol

Everybody likes "programs" if they are the beneficiary*.  That is one way to tell a Republican from a Democrat, the Dem wants all programs, the Rep just wants his (and sometimes his buddies) programs.  (yes I know that's not universal)


*except us libertarians of course ;)

Yeah, we know you guys don't need no stinkin programs.

*bump*

* Pro free-trade
* Opposed to deficits, but am willing to keep it if it means we get out of a recession.

Other than that, don't know.

Interesting bump.

* Generally anti-abortion.
* Very much non-secularized worldview, though I try not to let my politics become sectarian.
* Anti-drug and 'sex-negative' on a personal level.
* Strong preference for rural areas and lifestyles.

-Against the death penalty
-Pro-immigration
-Somewhat moderate on spending, willing to raise taxes if necessary to balance the budget
-Support the Fed and think the Gold Standard is stupid
-Somewhat pro-union (though not a protectionist)
-Moderate foreign policy views for the most part, though I pretty much never support unilateral withdrawal from wars
-In comparison to my views overall, anything that doesn't have to do with sex or drugs

Gay and lesbian rights and welfare

Legal immigration, evolution, climate change and in some aspects, educaton.

1. I am pretty liberal when it comes to Immigration.
2. I think public schools should be bloody palaces.
3. I do not think gay marriage would be the end of the world, (Although I do prefer some civil union system in general).
4. I do not believe that climate change is a liberal conspiracy to control our lives.

I consider myself more of a Republican than a Democrat, so I'm going off of that basis:

- Pro-Choice
- Pro-Drug Legalization
- Pro-Gay Rights
- Non-Interventionist
- Support drilling for Domestic Oil AND using natural resources
- Abolish DHS
- Abolish the FED
- Atheist

More more Non-Libertarian views:

- Pro-Death Penalty in some cases
- Anti-Amnesty (I believe we should open ourselves up for more legal immigration, but make it less difficult to become a citizen. It shouldn't take years and years to become an American.)

- I would possibly support a very big reduction in or even the abolition of the income tax for the bottom 10% of earners if the circumstances are suitable.

- I don't do tobacco or other harmful drugs. Alcohol is pretty rare for me too.

- I acknowledge that deficits are a major problem.

- I wouldn't call myself a protectionist.

I am anti-tobacco and anti-alcohol (both traditionally leftist positions). Other than that, I am a straight-down-the-line conservative.

I'm generally a "liberal" but my conservative aspects are:

-pretty anti-union, without being right-to-work or any of that junk. I just don't have a very high personal opinion of unions.
-more conservative on immigration, especially immigration in the Canadian or French context
-kind of law and order on certain issues and favourable to the death penalty in limited cases

I also live a fairly conservative life (my friend thought I was a Puritan at first), but it has no effect on my views (I think).

Depends what you call "liberal" and "conservative". I oppose affirmative action (though I arguably oppose it from the left), I oppose legalizing prostitution and I'm undecided regarding soft drugs. I'm also generally supportive of free trade (though with major caveats regarding developing countries), and support foreign intervention in order to stop violations of human rights.

Why?

I'm ULTRA MEGA HARD PALEOCON
But I'm neutral on prostitution and I F***********ING HATE SOPA AND PIPA

A certain conception of human dignity, and the (left-winged) idead that not everything should be for sale.

Just to be clear, I don't think prostitutes themselves should be penalized in any way. Clients and especially pimps should, though.

My more moderate positions:
I kinda un-oppose gay adoption, but at the same time I oppose it?
I support the Matt Shepard Act, and other acts of that nature.

My more Libertarian positions:

Lower drinking age to 18.
Dismantle the FCC in most cases. (Only supporting blocking obscene stuff from kids channels, and blocking porn on tv, and stuff.)
I oppose banning Flag Burning. I'm a damn proud American, but it is that person's property, and therefore they can do what they want with it as long as they don't cause harm/chaos to people. (But if you gotta burn it, wrap yourself in it first ;) )

I'm more liberal than conservative, so here's what I think is essentially the extent of my conservative beliefs:

- Oppose affirmative action.
- I’m pretty neutral on school vouchers (only because public schools don’t receive the funding I think they should).
- Generally pro-life past the first trimester or so (I would say the “point of viability” but that’s a fairly arbitrary threshold), though I am pro-choice when it comes to rape/incest/health of the mother.
- Support free trade in most instances.
- Fine with some offshore drilling until we reach a big breakthrough with renewable energy (which I optimistically believe is going to happen relatively soon).

I'm suspicious of affirmative action (in admittance to colleges, I'd prefer less emphasis on race and more on social class), oppose gun control, and think that as long as it's tightly regulated and produced in the USA, we don't have to give up fossil fuels immediately.

I listen to Howard Stern, a guy that is despised by the politically correct left wing.

I support the abolition of the FCC.

Hugh Hefner>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>radical anti-porn anti-sex prude feminism

I hate hypocrisies of the left but I do the same with the right wing lies.

PETA does more harm for animal right causes then it does good.

 
 

Progressive taxation is not my favorite form of wealth re-distribution.

-I'm don't get into hysterics over the death penalty.
-I don't really care about pet issues over cultural leftists like vegetarianism, animal abuse, gender issues and the like. This doesn't mean I don't have a left-wing slant on these issues, it just means that I tend to shrug my shoulders when I see a flier or advertisement decrying factory farms as immoral.
-Protectionism is stupid.
-Knee-jerk anti-corporatism is stupid
-I support capitalism even I support tight regulation, relatively high taxation and the like.
-I like guns, even I can see the appeal of gun control.

- I'm a lot more hawkish than the average Democrat. That's not to say I'm a neocon, but it's also not to say that I'm a dove and think that all wars are without exception bad. I am a realist and believe that yes, war can be a tool for creating peace and establishing justice just as easily as it can be a tool to create more violence, instability, and chaos. Obama intervening in Libya is something that I probably personally would not have done were I in his shoes, but it's proven to be the right decision and something that I think he deserves credit for. The War in Iraq...not so much. It was completely unrequited and stupid from the start. I am for using military force to stop aggression and in self defense. Everything else should be thought of on a case-by-case basis.
- I think that we should eliminate corporate taxation and/or tax corporate cash stockpiles instead to encourage investment. I'm also in favor of a Value Added Tax, provided that it means we have exemptions for food, clothing, medicine, and education. I think that regressive taxation is easier done than progressive taxation, though I favor the latter; I think that social insurance programs should be entirely financed by payroll taxation, however.
- I think conscription is preferable to an all volunteer military.
- I am totally opposed to any form of gun control at any level.
- There's nothing wrong with using what fossil fuels we have while we transition to cleaner sources of energy. I'm down with clean coal and the Keystone XL pipeline, along with expanding offshore drilling (but not drilling in ANWR) and exploiting our massive reserves of natural gas. I am also a HUGE fan of nuclear power.
- I am opposed to affirmative action.
- I think guest worker programs are immoral in a country with 8.5% unemployment and that they need to be ended until we're operating at something *close* to full employment again. I believe that we need to reform our immigration system to encourage high-skilled, high-wage workers rather than low-wage workers.
- I'm completely fine with the Interstate Highway System and would love to see serious expansion and revitalization efforts therein.
- I'm alright with school choice so long as it's confined to public schools only.
- I think that liberals exaggerate the threat of climatic change. Yes, it's going to be a bitch to live through. No, it's not going to wipe out the human race. Chill the  out.

TNF, please edit your sig...

Fixed. :)

End the fed, anti-fiat, undecided on the death penalty.

Pro free trade, anti gun control, anti affirmative action.

Well, I still support free trade, but as a smoker, I can say that we will follow the law - and if it is illegal to smoke outside of a cafe or restaurant, we will not do it, which indisputably provides a safer environment for employees and patrons alike.  I believe there is a reasonable balance to strike between personal freedom and public safety, and the prohibition of smoking substances outside the privacy of ones own home is really quite fair when one considers the serious health consequences of prolonged exposure to such toxic chemicals.  It is really no different than banning the use of asbestos in the construction of buildings.

-Support the Death Penalty for the most heinous crimes
- Libertarian on drugs, prostitution, and alcohol
- 100% pro-choice( for practical matters)
- Don't believe gun control will work considering the number of unregistered guns in this country
- 100% for gay marriage
- Fairly liberal on economic issues mainly due to rising inequality

You can't be "libertarian" on just one issue, it's an all or nothing philosophy. Might as well say you're "marxist" on those things.

I am relatively pro free trade, I support only modest gun control laws, and I support means testing Social Security.

Is means-testing really a 'conservative' policy? Because in Australia at least, the liberals support means-testing, whereas conservatives support free-for-all.

Why does Marokai support DEVASTATING CUTS to our seniors?

It depends on your perspective, really. I don't personally view it as a right-wing inspired policy choice, since I look at it as "I don't want rich people getting Social Security."

I've heard the reason (elected) Democrats have opposed means-testing Social Security is because they fear the public support for the program will drop significantly once people start viewing it as a welfare program.

The real problem is the lack of public support for broad social welfare policies.

I support gay marriage and limited abortion rights.

I can also understand why they just wouldn't want to open that can of worms to begin with. I would be afraid to let anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders tinker with the inner workings of Social Security. What would start as a well intentioned effort to curtail social security payments to the wealthy might end with the right taking over the entire process and turning "means testing" into the horrible type of means testing that cripples so many other programs.

The wealthy form a very small portion of the population; I can't help but think that means-testing would deprive far more people in need than it would rich people who don't need it.

It is generally noticed that welfare systems which target the neediest are usually less generous, less popular and less effective in terms of inequality reduction, than those based on universal benefits (the so-called "paradox of redistribution").

The Liberal Party of Australia is the conservative party.

I realise that, I'm Australian remember :)

Talking about liberal/conservatives in American terms. There's no 'term' for lefties down under in the same way there is for righties.

Well, I will admit that I am more predisposed to the left-wing (not "liberal") view than many of my fellow Americans...but...

-I think environmental protectionism has gotten out of hand in certain areas (like my state :P)

-I dislike the American obsession with "small business owners"

-I am opposed to prostitution (like Antonio, from a left-wing standpoint)

-I don't think certain drugs should be legalized

-I am opposed to strict gun control laws

-I don't think the State is necessarily "better" than, say, a local community organization at solving some of society's ills

-I like Ron Paul's foreign policy stances, but for entirely different reasons than the Ron Paul loving crowd :P

- Support auditing the Fed
- Support drug testing for welfare recipients (but only if there's evidence that the savings will be greater than the cost of the testing)
- Oppose restrictions on handguns and strict gun control laws
- Support cutting the Corporate Tax
- Support limits on welfare (just so that people aren't living off the system without making an attempt to become self-reliant)
- Support free trade
- Against amnesty

This isn't a thing that happens.

I'm fairly pro-gun and I believe affirmative action has outlived its usefulness.

It is why this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act) was passed.

I'm aware of that legislation. It combated an imaginary problem.

It has happened.  I've seen it from personal experience.  I'm not one of those types who think everyone on welfare doesn't have the incentive to work - most of them do, but there's nothing wrong with making welfare what it is intended to be: a temporary safety net.

teabagger alert

I support auditing the fed, free trade and limits on welfare. I'm undecided on the corporate tax and generally lean against gun control. I support amnesty though and don't want to test welfare recipients. We seem to be similar in our general outlook, which is rare on this forum!

What do you suggest we do with the illegal immigrants already here?

Some of that is legitimately pretty gross.

Do you smoke Nat Sherman?

I support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants already here, which I do not believe would constitute as amnesty.

Faaaaaaaar from it.

I believe the second amendment says what it means; and I am mostly in favor of free trade and nuclear power.  There's also some small-scale deregulation I'd be in favor of, but only on a case-by-case basis: some deregulation is good (Staggers Act) and some deregulation is horrible (gutting the EPA).

Welfare queens are a right wing myth.

Not in the US. It encourages having kids anyway and needs rethought.

The way I see it, the term "welfare queens" is often used by people on the far-right to generalize.  I have nothing against people on welfare and acknowledge that the vast majority of them have the incentive to work in order to make ends meet.  I just believe that welfare should be what it was intended for: a hand-up for people who have the willingness to be successful.

I favor amnesty
I support abortion
I support limited gun control
I support gay marriage
I oppose auditing the fed
I oppose government drug tests for welfare
I support a progressive income tax
I support increased government spending during recessions
I support some regulations on the finance industry
I support the green movement

I think that does it.

I think you're the first person I've seen here with negative social/economic scores and a Republican avatar.

I challenge anyone to explain me AHDuke's politics. :P

I identify as a social democrat or moderate democratic socialist.

My most conservative aspects:

1. I reject class conflict and do not trust the masses to self-govern with good results.
2. I support a market-based economy and oppose the nationalization of most industries.
3. I consider the corporate tax rate in the States to be overly high and uncompetitive.
4. I reckon labour unions need limits to their power, though I would not seek to bust them.
5. I think the government should sustain balanced budgets except for in times of crisis.
6. I feel the top tier of federal government should only amend and uphold the constitution.
7. I happen to have somewhat strong reservations regarding third-trimester abortions.
8. I support bans on hard recreational drugs such as heroin, cocaine, barbiturates, ect.
9. So long as there is some regulation, I think the general population should be armed.
10. Tort reform sounds like a pretty good idea to me - as does streamlining regulations.
11. I often waver on affirmative action - seeing its effects as positive yet having doubts.
12. I like it when states set aside some money to symbolically glorify their achievements.

As far as I know, however, few of these views contradict my other stances and values.


Edit: Oh-ho! I nearly forgot a real doozy from an environmental standpoint!

13. I fancy nuclear energy quite a bit and consider it to be an ideal replacement for coal.

What's there to explain? I lay them out beautifully for all to see everyday! 

He's from South Carolina, ok? He can't expect to survive down there while wearing red avatar.

Secular Bush?

I'm generally opposed to prostitution and the rest of the sex trade (BRTD's beloved strip-clubs, for instance) although I still think making such things illegal is probably the wrong idea. By American standards, this would probably be considered a somewhat conservative position.

I'm also a fairly strong supporter of free trade, although I don't think that's necessarily a counterintuitive position for a liberal to take.

Dude, just get a red avatar. :(

I oppose amnesty.
I oppose abortion.
I oppose gun control.
I support marriage privatization.
I support more privatization in general.
I oppose the federal reserve. (Pro audit too obviously.)
I support government drug tests for welfare recipients. Like bankers.
I oppose income tax and the IRS. I strongly support the FAIR tax.
I oppose increased government spending during recessions.
I support deregulation and cutting/abolishing government departments.
I oppose green hysteria and boondoggles like "cap and trade" & "carbon taxes."
I wish the "99%" (what an idiotic phrase) would shut up.

I think that does it.

Wait, you consider yourself a liberal ? :P

I'm a Democrat. The fox news/dittohead crowd would undoubtedly consider me liberal. Also, note what was omitted there. I didn't once mention bombing Iran, how disgusting fags homosexuals are, jesus, or making sick people choose between food and medicine. That makes me a socialist.

Now. If anyone who is considered a liberal by the Crazy Right was an actual liberal, you'd live in the United Socialist Soviet States of America.

()

Lew Rockwell might consider me a "libertine," I guess.

It seems to me that free trade is an inherently liberal idea.

I support reform and experimentation in public schools even if teachers' unions are against it.
I support fracking.
I support more and faster foreclosures to clear out the housing market.
I oppose further anti-tobacco measures and regulations on unhealthy foods.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Sometimes I forget that you're a Democrat :P

- Oppose the Brady Bill or just about any Federal Gun Control
- Support greater restrictions on Emminent Domain
- Oppose activism against animal abuse and other anti-hunter, anti-rancher and anti-trapper   rhethoric.
- Oppose absexual (look up absexuality) feminism
- I supported Bush's Social Security policies to a point
-  I oppose regulations on GMOs

Starting to reconsider my views on drug-testing welfare recipients after seeing what happened in Florida.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mandatory-drug-testing-for-Corporate-welfare/121317061225727

I support Abortions in Trimester 1
I oppose the Republican parties consistent fiscal defecit increases.
I support the idea of LGBT civil partnerships and the states right to legalize non heterosexual Marriages
I support the states right to legalize any drug it likes
I support the legalization of prostitution
I support the idea that taxation rates should be flat rate or progressive
I support the complete separation of church and state
I support the federal enforcement of civil rights
I support huge cuts to the defense budget
I oppose Agricultural subsides
I support global free trade
I support increasing the education budget
I support a states right to involve themselves in healthcare (and even set up an NHS if they wanted)
I support the right of congress to overrule the Fed.
I do not like capital punishment but it is a states right.

What would happen if I did? The world might end!

Yeah, please don't. You're clearly my bizarro counterpart anyway. We're supposed to be exact opposites.

I don't plan on it. I don't want to fit in, and if I switched I would be just another Democrat. Where's the fun in that?

I agree.

Protectionism seems to be in vogue amongst some of our younger liberal members, though, no?

Maybe I should clarify that I'm using "liberal" in the American sense of the word.

-I support a states right to create a public health system.
-I personally support gay marriage.
-I oppose NAFTA.
-I support lowering all (and outright abolishing some) taxes, but I think the wealthy should almost always pay a higher rate compared to the poor.
-I oppose globalism.

I think of it as a neo-mercantilist sentiment cropping up on both sides of the aisle. Some people are encouraging discrimination against goods and services provided outside of ones community, region, or country, thinking that purchasing foreign-made stuff or outsourcing jobs is in one way or another harmful to workers and/or national interests. I am reluctant to compare it to "free" or "fair" forms of trade since neither aims to rig terms of trade in favor of manipulating the market to mostly - if not overwhelmingly - benefit their own country rather than all of the nations involved.

There are a few instances where I fancy protectionism, but those stances are not meant to shelter Americans from foreign competition so much as to shelter developing countries from what may be terms of trade that threaten to harm their developmental prospects or cause humanitarian issues.

()

Surely most of the liberal aspects Duke has are just out of sanity? :P

()

Seriously stop using the L avatar when you're clearly a right winger.

I support in a pathway to citizenship.
I support the women's right to choose.
I support gay marriage.
I support the green movement.
I support a progressive income tax.

I'm a moderate so I can go both ways here...

Conservatism:
-Believe in civil unions and not outright homosexual marriage.
-Believe marriage should be left for churches.
-Believe regulations must be severely cut down.
-Dislikes unbalanced budgets.
-Believes in the pro-life position.
-Pro-nuclear power.
-Pro school choice.
-Pro right to arms.
-Believe in pro-military budgeting.

Liberalism:
-Believe civil unions should be more empowered and should be for any two people and not just homosexuals.
-Believe in fair not free trade.
-Believe in more science and technology research and development funding.
-Believe in tougher animal cruelty laws.
-Believe in a role for government in the economy and health care.
-Believe in a less military centered foreign policy and non-interventionism.
-Believe in public elections.
-Believe in tougher financial regulations.
-Believe in better pollution controls.

I can go on and on, but basically I am a middle of the road person.

He's basically what the late Einzige would call a 'left-libertarian (http://leftlibertarian.org/leftlibertarianism.html)'.   

In economic terms, I don't really have any left leaning aspects that I can think of right away, so I'm pretty dogmatic there.

Socially, I'm very much in favor of gay rights. Same sex marriage, ENDA, partial repeal of DOMA etc and I absolutely abhor the death penalty.

- Pro-Choice
- Pro-Drug Legalization
- Pro-Gay Rights
- Pro-Immigration
- Pro-Euthanasia

Most non-libertarian aspects:

Pro-union
Anti-privatization
Don't think private is automatically better than public (big business is about equal with big goverment)

Correcting the record, and then adding some more.

- I do not think we should legalize every controlled substance known to man. Cannabis should be made legal and treated as we treat alcohol, but I draw the line there. This is not to say that I support the 'War on Drugs', rather that I am in favor of adopting harm reduction strategies to combat the drug problem in the United States, and requiring rehabilitation, rather than prison time, for addicts.
- The military budget should not be unilaterally cut, rather scaled down in certain areas and ramped up in others. I think we should cut ground forces (but not until the economy is producing enough jobs to make up from the losses) and expand capabilities for space and cyber warfare.
- I am not opposed to the use of drone warfare. If anything, I'm whole-heartedly supportive of the use of drones and would like to see the Air Force mostly automated within my lifetime.
- I am totally in favor of GM foods.
- I am opposed to 'Cap and Trade' and 'Carbon Taxation' because of the negative effects they will have on the poorest Americans with regard to paying energy bills. If anything, we should subsidize the hell out of clean energy, rather than trying to rig markets in favor of energy that isn't as efficient, such as solar. I highly favor transitioning away from oil and coal towards natural gas and (eventually) nuclear power.
- Big business is ten times more efficient and often better for their workforce than are small businesses. Plus, big business is more likely to recognize and work with a union within their plant, shop, factory, etc. Basically, big business > small business in terms of just about everything.
- Anti-trust law has outlived it's usefulness in the 21st Century. We should allow the formation of industrial combines on the condition that these combines allow for unionization and center their production in the United States.
- Corporate welfare needs to be expanded, not eliminated.
- I favor agriculture subsidies.
- I do not favor traditional welfare programs. Rather, I favor the unemployed being put directly to work by the government or being given an education to get a better job at some point in the future, rather than just sitting around and collecting from the public dole.
- I think Bradley Manning is a traitor and reaps whatever he sowed.

()

Anyways, I'm not a liberal.  But I'll try to participate anyways.

I'd say my opposition to gun control is fairly "conservative," but it's actually fairly typical of my ideological brethren.  Hm...

The most "conservative" thing about me would probably be the fact that despite how much I despise traditional values, including monogamy and the nuclear family, I sort of have a "sex is icky" sort of mindset.  And despite the fact that I oppose patriarchy and the sexualization of everything about women, I seem to dislike that sort of pro-breastfeeding in public movement.  But probably because I just find it icky and dislike hippy-dippy crap, rather than any sort of "cover your breasts up" moralfiggotry.  I find babies and everything about our culture in regards to them annoying, so yeah...

Overall I despise hippy-dippy romanticism.

I support nationalizing various sectors of the economy and rigging markets to favor American producers and consumers, as well as strongly supporting unions. Those positions alone make it impossible for me to be a Republican. :P

Well, that and I'd never be caught dead calling myself a Republican, because I'm not a Republican. I'm decidedly left-of-center. You'll notice that just about none of the things I posted have to do with economics, mostly because I'm to the left of the entire Democratic Party on economic policy, save for cap and trade, which is a conservative policy to begin with.

Time for an update:

Least Conservative aspects:

I support gay marriage.
I support a path to citizenship, working visas, oppose border fence, etc.
I believe abortion should be legal.*
I support some regulations on business.
I believe, at the very least, marijuana should be legalized.
I oppose the PATRIOT Act.
I oppose foreign interventionism.
I support free and fair trade.
I believe healthcare should be provided by the state Government to the poorest residents of the state.**
I believe it is, in some cases, appropriate for the rich to pay slightly higher taxes.***
I'm rather neutral regarding the death penalty.

That's basically it.

* = I believe abortion should be legal, but should not be funded using taxpayer dollars. I consider myself morally pro-life, but politically pro-choice. The states should decide their own abortion laws.

** = Not sure how "un-conservative" it is to say the state Government should provide it.

*** = In some cases, such as when there is an economic boom, having a slightly progressive tax system is appropriate. Reagan raised taxes 4 times(?) all during economic upturns.

That's really it.

I was joking, really.  You're more of a Blue Dog Democrat, from what I've seen.  Certainly nowhere near being a Republic**nt.

I think I've actually characterized you, to myself, as "like the average Democratic politician."

Oh no, no. I'm not a Blue Dog. They're mad about reducing the deficit and cutting into social programs. I could care less about the deficit (at least while the economy is completely in the garbage bin) and wouldn't cut a dime from Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. (And would generally make the latter programs a lot bigger and more inclusive, and reduce the retirement age to ~55 over a period of years)