Talk Elections

For New Mass, Closer to Latin, Critics Voice a Plain Objection (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/us/12mass.html?_r=1&hpw=&pagewanted=all#)

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: April 11, 2011
 
Throughout much of the English-speaking world, the Roman Catholic Church is preparing its priests and parishes for the most significant changes to the Mass in the more than 40 years since the church permitted English in place of the Latin.

The changes are included in a new English-language translation of the Roman Missal, a translation produced after almost 30 years of labor, intrigue and infighting. The new missal, the book of texts and prayers used in the Mass, is intended to be closer to the liturgical Latin that was used for centuries than the current version. The church officials promoting it say it will bring an elevated reverence and authenticity to the Mass. Many Catholics who prefer a more traditional liturgy are eagerly anticipating the change.

But after getting a glimpse of the texts in recent months, thousands of priests in the United States, Ireland and Australia have publicly objected that the translation is awkward, archaic and inaccessible. Although most are resigned to adopting the new missal, some have mounted campaigns to prevent it from being introduced.

“What we are asking of the bishops is to scrap this text,” said the Rev. Sean McDonagh, a leader of an Irish group, the Association of Catholic Priests, which represents 450 priests — about 1 out of 10 — in that country. “I know people are not going to use it. I wouldn’t use it, because everything I know in terms of theology and anthropology and linguistics, it breaches every one of those.”

American Catholics will first encounter the new missal on Nov. 27, the first Sunday of Advent, the start of the liturgical year and the season leading up to Christmas. Even bishops and church officials in charge of preparing the way for the new language in the Mass acknowledge that it will take some adjustment — especially for priests, who will have to master complicated new speaking parts.

I went to my share of latin masses as a kid and learned it in school, won't affect me.

Link?

Also, there are few things more beautiful than a well-orchestrated Latin Mass.  Bach's Mass in B Minor is one of my favorites.  (And Bach wrote it as a Lutheran!)

No, a link to the text of the new Mass.  That said, I'll find it on my own.

Oh -then why didn't you just say so?

Here is a link (http://latinmass.com/) that might help, at least for the time being until I can find better ones.

It should be noted that this (the op) isnt a Latin mass. It is still in the vernacular with different wording.

Found it while skimming though the Catholic Answers forum.  It's called Sancta Missa (http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/missa/missa.pl).  And another (http://www.angelqueen.org/mass/contents.shtml). 

Hope it's in the ballpark of what you're looking for.  

Much thanks.  :)

The first link is what you are looking for.  The haven't read over the second thoroughly, but by glancing at it I believe they are describing the Tridentine mass which is something entirely different.

The new translations are terrible and just clunky in my opinion.  I dont really go to Mass much anymore, but this could screw up my system of following the lead of the oldest lady in church for my cues.  

Edit: The first link isnt it either.  That is the Tridentine mass as well. The standard for the liturgy is the Roman missal and what is being implemented is a new translation from the official Latin to English.  I dont think it has been published yet.

Here is a basic overview of the changes that are likely to be implemented.
http://content.ocp.org/shared/pdf/general/Advent2010.pdf

Now that it has been more than a year since its (re-)introduction, how do the Catholics on this board feel about the new Latin Mass? 

OP says it wasn't actually put into place until November 27.

But I have attended one Mass under the new translation and let's just say that I thought the church service I went to today that consisted of a 20something woman wearing a T-shirt, jeans and flip-flops having everyone crowd up around her and read from a Dr. Seuss book for part of the sermon was superior. (I know that description above is probably going to horrify TJ and realisticidealist as well as Nathan.)

The changes were incredibly minor. Basically, and also with you becomes and with your spirit

     I love Latin masses. Even if I can't believe, I still have to hand it to the Church for making worship a glorious event.

Why not have them in both Latin and English and let the people decide on an individual basis?

From what TJ has said, lots of churches do.

Which is ridiculous. I insist on saying it, and most other things, the old way.

That is the current policy. Most people don't really notice because almost no one chooses to go to them in Latin. And another part of the reason why almost no one goes to the ones in Latin is that most people don't realize they exist.

But in most major cities there is at least one Mass in Latin every weekend. Even Madison has one (though I've never been to it).

Do you realize that the "new" way is actually much closer to the actual old way that the "old" way?