Talk Elections

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Candidates participating in the debate:

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WHEN: September 12, 2011 - 8pm Eastern

WHERE: Tampa, Florida

Moderator (Wolf Blitzer):

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Live Stream I guess: http://www.cnn.com/video

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Someone please sticky this ... Thx.

Wolf Blitzer is the most inane person in cable news, and that's saying something.

Keep the Huntsmentum alive.

And probably will be the most sane person in the room which says something else...

But yes you are right on the money here.

Blitzer is... okay, I guess. If nothing else, he won't be engaging in "American Idol or Reach for the Stars" stupid questions.

My prediction: someone after the debate with say something containing a variation on "Romney did well" and "Ron Paul was...Ron Paul" ("RON PAUL WAS AN INSANE LOON WHO DEMONSTRATED HIS LOONINESS" falls into that category), since that happens every debate regardless of content.

When did CNN become the Tea Party network?

I'm really surprised at how much the mainstream media/liberal media hate the Tea Party.  Apparently, they hate the Tea Party because "the tea party is racist" or something like that. 
I agree that the Tea Party is an insurgent, anti-establishment renegade that rubs a lot of the liberals and older GOP the wrong way, but I'm just surprised at how much liberal journalists "hate" the tea party and aren't afraid to say so openly.  I understand the Tea Party is comprised of many loose groups and leaders, who come off as annoying but its also an insurgent populist independent, secular sentiment that helped propel the anti-war and anti-establishment Obama to election victory.  I was watching the Chris Matthews show, which I enjoy for its rapid pace and quick dialogue, and one of the polls said that 11-1 of the panel thought Obama would win re-election despite 8.5% unemployment - either those journalists are obama-loving liberals or they just want to maintain access to Obama until he loses. 

Its just sickening when journalists ignore the numbers and just let their bias overcome rationality.

I love how CNN plays the "Tea Party" card then the next day will accuse them of being rascist and air a special about Islamaphobia or someother stupid thing regarding race.

No.

Ah, so the Tea Party is the Taliban of the United States.  Well, I feel much better.

 

That they are illiberal is enough for liberals of any kind. But worse, it is demagogic, anti-rational, and low-brow.

 

One does not win most political campaigns by showing oneself abrasive, let alone demonstrably wrong. So Barack Obama has become part of the political Establishment? Such demonstrates a measure of success.  




The Hard Right makes President Obama, flawed as he might be as President, look good by contrast.  To be sure, a 12-person panel of educated people is by nature unrepresentative of America. But who else is going to know anything about history or political science?



Which numbers can one believe? Strange, unforeseen things can happen.

It's starting! Love the dramatic opening music lol.

Let's start!

Love the entry!

This opening is terribly over dramatic.

I like how they're trying to sink Huntsman, saying that he wants to carve a "more moderate path." Yeah, that's going to work with this crowd. The Santorum characterization was good.

This is...interesting.

I loved that video-gamey introduction.

Herman Cain
Class: The Businessman

Just missed it (came on for Newt).

What did they say about our favorite Senator? ;)

wow CNN found the one non white guy in the audience

The troops are watching the NFL. Don't kid yourself.

SO PAINFULLY EPIC

And.. HULK HOGAN!

ARE YOU READY TO RUMMBBBBLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Romneys mic is on lol..he sounds so awkward greeting them. Did you hear him make the "muh" sound when he kissed Michelle. Also, anyone notice Paul refusing to shake Santorums hand lol..

He's "the fighter."

The Romney-Bachmann kiss looked painfully awkward.

Please mess up the words like everyone else does.

Damn straight. Paul isn't going to take sh*t from Perry.

Starting stats:

HP/MP: 55/61
Strength: 14
Constitution: 13
Morality: 20
Intelligence: 7

This whole WWF extended intro and music is embarassing. As it is not standard for CNN I suspect the Tea Party people were the geniuses behind it

He just shook Newt's hand because he was right next to him and I'm certainly not one to make excuses for Paul.

Romney got a big kiss from Bachmann.  It looked to me like she tried to slip him a little tongue.

WE ALREADY KNOW WHO THEY ARE!!!!!

My name is Rick Perry and I'm an alcoholic.

Vote for Rick Perry for Government, he hates Government.

Michele's blatant pandering is adorable.

Newt:   The spirit of nine-twelve.  

Nice little jab at Specter, Rick.

What happened on 9/12.

And then Rick lost by 674 points

And Cancer..


I love the Specter jab from Santorum.

WHAA? You ask BACHMANN about SS and not Perry? Stop being a tease Wolf!

RLY? NEVER HEARD THAT!

Social Security up first!

Bachman:  "President Obama stole money..."

Ouc.  First blood is drawn.

Well, apparently Bachmann has at least 3 feet....

Dear God don't say "Slam Dunk"

YES! The patented Romneysmirk returns!

OOOOO Perry's a flip flopper. :P

I'm crossing my fingers he says "bro" at some point.

Rick Perry: No one has had the courage to say how they will fix the [Social Security] system.

...um, neither have you.

Here comes the Romney-Perry war.

Oh, God bless you Mitt.

Here we go :)

Romney is ripping him!! :shock

(wait, what? No emoticon?!?!)

Mitt, you lose. Again. Nice fake attack dog routine though.

P.S. - No one likes you.

this crowd does not like Romney and seems to love Perry

Breaking: Crowd dominated by Republican/conservative activists.

Romney's hitting Perry hard as flip-flopper. Kind of ironic, but true.

Perry won the exchange, though, in my opinion.

I really dislike how loud this crowd is.

Phil you should accept the fact that Perry would be the Republican Mondale if he were nominated and stop defending him.

Tea Party Express.

Paul makes a good point, actually. Part of the problem is we have taken so much out of the fund for other things.

How? He didn't answer the attacks thrown at him. That isn't winning.

I respectfully disagree.

Kurt Cobain? What?

I really hate this excuse that "my plan is okay because it doesn't affect current beneficiaries." It just appeals to peoples' selfish instincts that make them think "Yeah, I'll vote for you because you'll protect me, and when the next generation needs help I'll be dead, so they're on their own!"

No Apology:  All Apologies.

I like cultural allusions, don't you?

I like Newt a lot. I don't know why, but I do. :P

Oh God John. Don't be funny. Or try to be funny.

I know. He actually sounded very good until he tried to make that reference. :P

Privatize it!

9/12 Newt is on a tear.  

I think he avoided masturbating today.  Or took some B12 supplement.  

Suck it to Blitzer Santorum!

Clever, Rick.

Holy crap Santorum just zinged one!

Breaking News: Santorum at one point won elections against democrats.

At least there's something we can all agree on.

Yep. I was right already...

Santorum. Hero.

His base doesn't care, and Romney stumbled a bit at the end. The people will watching will think Perry successfully defended himself since he seemed to get in the last word, even though he never actually made a counterpoint.

Yes, let criminals die on the streets, Newt.

Wow.  Newt used the word "august"  The adjective, not the month.

Reckon Perry has a pocket dictionary?

Er... Social Security is not bankrupt. It's projected to pay out benefits at 100% until 2037. But I know facts play no part in GOP debates.

If it was so easy to cut billions by modernizing the government, why hasn't it been done yet?

But they'll "save" it by demolishing it!

This debate is a joke, even moreso than most other debates.

17 trillion dollar hole in the budget? lol Perry.

Uh oh. Looks like Newt got criticized by Perry.

Perry: "That's what I said at the beginning of the question."

THE BEST

Romney at least is willing to admit the whole cutting waste/fraud thing cant balance the budget

This debate's audience isn't interested in serious responses.

People at home are though.

Blitzer is really bad.

which is why Perry seems to be winning this debate and will win the nomination.

Where the heck are they getting some of these numbers? Are they over ten years? twenty years? a year?

I have to say that with each debate, my respect grows for Romney.

I love Paul, but I wish he didnt bring up the wars--thats the elephant in the room.

Oh no not this ownership society bs....

Oh, good.  Commercial break.  I need to pee.  And refill my glass.

It only just started. Don't let some drones in the audience think that they speak for the average Republican voter.

Well, this is a tea party debate, so their interest in sane responses is even lower than usual.

I really really hope so, man.

Most politicians frame spending cuts about waste, Bachmann is actually campaigning to become an "ownership society" and to "stop taking care of the elderly"

The more I hear these folks talk the more I feel like moving my basic economic ideological positions left.

I guess Romney should just scream one liners for the rest of the debate then, since that is what the audience wants.

lol all these people asking questions look like total tools.

To play to the room just use the phrases
- Obama is a liar
- Freedom
- Keep your money
- Constitution

Huntsman's economic policy is so reasonable. Of course no one there cares.

Nice double chin.

Huntsman just gave an excellent response. Very impressed.

This audience is ridiculous.  Huntsman says all this great stuff on tax reform, but no applause until Hunts shouts out "Obamacare!"

Half of Perry's jobs are going to be jobs!

That's Huntsman for you.

Perry is such a do*che.

Wolfgang is actually giving the others a chance to speak.  We didn't get this in the previous debate, which Brian allowed to be a two-man show.

0 jobs huh? lol

Uh... the only reason there's any "regulatory uncertainty" because of Obamacare and Dodd-Frank is because Republicans want to repeal them. If we just let them be, there'd be no uncertainty. Don't be a dumb, Huntsy.

Huntsman's response was so detailed that all responses look like copycats. Nice.

WOW. Not only is Romney using the Romney-Smirk, he's leaning as far back from Perry as possible. Maybe he knows bad things could happen when Perry tries to do math.

What Huntsman is saying would be red meat conservative rhetoric in any sane country but in America it's considered DINO-speak without constant references to big government, federal waste and the like.

I feel bad for fact-checkers out there. If you dealt with every response you could write a novel.

Is it just me or does it seem like it takes Perry a lot of effort to think?

Yes, let the country default instead. How can someone cheer for that?

Did Bachmann just criticize the Bush tax cuts? (and therefore extending them?)

I wonder what Bachmann used to navigate the wilderness of Washington. :P

American countries overseas?

The hell is Bachmann talking about? She's ignoring Blitzer's question completely.

"1.2 Trillion earned by American countries overseas" oh Bachmann.  

Jobs? Please have Cain talk about the 9-9-9 plan!


I've found that a lot of left-leaners I know respect him. One of my best friends, a liberal from a Democratic family, just loves the guy.

You could see the gears grinding in his head when he was talking about what 0 divided by two is.

nine.
nine.
nine.

Is 9-9-9 a pizza plan.

I like pizza.

Almost everyone is. These are not serious people.

9-9-9 again. But I liked his joke.

And what was with Romney's praise of Texas. And his joke.

He's aware that his economy plan sounds like a pizza deal, I assume?

This crowd is ridiculous. They are only cheering for these talking points and if someone says something of substance, they are silent. It's maddening!

Wow... Obama must be feeling very good about his chances watching this debate.

Don't question the Bachmann, she heard a question and answered that question. It just wasn't the question the rest of us heard.

By the end of this election, anyone who doesn't know Mitt Romney spent 25 years in the private sector is an idiot. :P

Don't get me wrong, I still hate him and think that he's a craven/spineless douchebag but at least he isn't acting like a dolt when it comes to entitlements when he could easily make his rhetoric sound closer to the conservative norm.

I think we should implement a 6% corporate tax, 6% income tax, and 6% sales tax.

lol @ getting our tax code competitive in the world.  Does that mean Romney wants to raise taxes to be equal to the rest of the West?

Businesses arent waiting for the EPA to be abolished to start hiring, they are waiting for consumers to spend more.

Mitt Romney: "Phone metaphor!" [thunderous applause/laughter]

Hey, I notice that left leaning/Dem posters here don't like the candidates' responses. Interesting development!

[Insert really original comment here about how sanity doesn't resonate with these voters.]

WTF Bachmann with that laugh?

0 income tax?

I'm surprised Dominos hasn't sued Cain for ripping off their 5-5-5 deal.

Woah just saw a hot blonde in the audience...

Wow, Rick Perry tapping Romney on the shoulder and Bachmann laughing, great voiceover ... :)

Meh, not a great poker joke...Mitch?

Love Ron Paul...keeping it real.

RON PAUL.

Paul... Not bad. Pretty clever there.

Ron Paul:"You don't have to pay for tax cuts"

cool story bro

RON PAUL EPIC WIN.  "My taxes have gone up since Perry became governor."

Paul just laid the hurt on Perry.

America>>>>>The Vatican. Obviously.

Considering the West and the World are two entirely different things...um, not likely. You can do better than that.

Wait for it...wait...yep. Paul finds a way to reference Iraq/wars/foreign policy in a jobs question.

I just have the biggest mancrush on Ron Paul

Let's just stop inviting people who aren't Romney/Perry/Paul to these miserable things.

I forgot Newt was even there.

What else do you think caused this?

OMG EPIC GINGRICH TRIPLE-BURN

Because the vast amount of money spent on foreign affairs is totally separate from any impact it could have on the economy. Right.

Obligatory Reagan reference #1.

I know.  Moving the camera away from those three is equal to going to a commercial break.  RPP is thrilling.  They all have dirt on each other.

A question from a "Richard S." Hmmm. Did Santorum really get to submit a question?

How can we stop pollution? How can we feed kids? How can we walk our dog?

Paul: We need to quit getting into wahss....

Ugh freakin' Ron Paul.

I have a feeling they won't use any of the questions I put on twitter.

But a good question about being pro business and pro worker at the same time.

"My dad worked in a mill"

Hey? Who invited John Edwards?

lol.  Fair enough.  In four of the five times he got to speak, he mentioned the defense budget.

The crowd just eats up anything Newt says. Why is he doing so bad in the polls?


I know, I know.

Huntsman, your letting me down. Did I hear that right? We need more workers? I thought we had plenty.

On the bright side, no T-PAW meat packing.

Truth hurts, Mike. I know.

Huntsman: yeah, so I'm kinda good at this whole governing thing...

When are they starting to bash the gays ?

We don't get any mention of Reagan till 40 minutes in.  That's weak.

Hard to say who is winning at this point

Therefore Rick Perry is winning

I know we like to make fun of Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman, but both are debating like contenders tonight.  Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, and Santorum (is he even there, I can't tell?) all seem to fall in the background.


FEDERAL RESERVE QUESTION! RON PAUL WEPT!

Really? Because that's exactly what the implication was in your statement.

I understand you like to poo-poo any of us evil lefties that have issues with what the candidates are saying, but this forum is a marginally more serious forum for discussion than that debate is. I see politics as something a little bit more serious than theater.

Ron Paul must be giddy right now with a fed question!

Fed Question comes up; Me: PLEASE ASK RON PAUL, RON PAUL, RON PAUL.

Wolf: Senator Santorum!

Me: NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Did the crowd really just applaud trying Bernanke for treason?

It's up to Governor Perry to try Bernanke for treason? wat

It's the Inks of California for the next question.

Oh look, all the Republicans lack a basic understanding of macro-economics and monetary policy. Neat!

Thank God Santorum and Cain had sane responses to this Fed question. I love how it went to Santorum first. Paul must be crying. But don't worry: he'll get to answer...and find a way to reference foreign embassies, wars, etc.

lol

Romney, that did not go down well at ALL.

Paul didn't get to answer the Fed question. Beautiful!

meowmeowmeow

Ron Paul must be really, really unhappy now.

I do. He is a traitor, and the Fed is controlled by the Bankers who got us into this mess...

This question would have been a perfect lightning-round everyone only gets to say a number question.

not with this crowd.

Huntsman is trying to speak in talking points, but he just can't figure it out.

lol Newt is just here to have fun

How about bashing the Federal Reserve Board instead?

Personally, I think it's refreshing to see a presidential debate, in any party, that avoids issues that don't affect my pocketbook.  

You guys love to make fun of the Tea Party, but at least their questions are relevant.  None of this gay marriage or abortion or school prayer BS.  

This debate actually has some substance.

Huntsman, you rambled on, avoided the question, but still did well with it.

Is Gingrich being applauded for advocating higher tax rates?

Young people are active. We just back Democrats.

Did Newt just ask why we don't have tax breaks for OIL & GAS?!?!?

Breaking: Newt is going to take the bullet for the entire field on "closing loopholes is a tax increase."

Santorum and Newt - The Love Story

Best debate so far. But they dodged the kids question. If I was onstage, I would say this----"In my fantasy world, you get to keep 100 cents. In reality, you get to keep 99 cents".

Screw you, Mitt.  I'd rather see Congress manage our currency than some appointed board chairman who gets to do whatever he wants.

"Yes you're right that would be raising taxes but I'm opposed to raising taxes."

But.. what you just said..

ugh, Nevermind.

Amazing huh?

Gingrich almost answered the tax increase question, but he caught himself.

What were members of the audience shouting before Mitt spoke on the Fair Tax?

In a Perry admin, Romney will be Fed Chairman. I guarentee it.

I remember when I had my first beer....

Poor mitt. Getting booed. lightly.

Mitt Romney, do you support the fair-tax ?

Romney thinking: "What the heck is this ?"

ROMNEY DOESN'T WANT TO CUT TAXES ON THE RICH! SOCIALIST SOCIALIST SOCIALIST RINO RINO RINO!

Oh Romney, saying the Fairtax is too regressive ain't gonna win you much in this crowd.

Just booing him, I think.

Regressiveness is good, you know!

Virginia teapayers.

()

So Romney and Huntsman sound reasonable but are getting no love from the audience?

...Obama Depression?

LOL REPUBS ARE UNREASONABLE! DUH!

Where have you been for the past four hundred pages?

Government injections!

Oh you left-wing poster, you.

Bachmann fires back.

CONSTITUTION-LOVING TEA PARTIERS APPLAUDING PERRY'S PROMISE TO USE EXECUTIVE ORDERS TO REPEAL LEGISLATION

I´m a mom of 3 children

Underestimate ...

Congress would destroy this country if they were put in charge of monetary policy. We would be the United States of Zimbabwe by now if that had been the case from 2009-2010.

Perry shouldn't deserve the respect he is getting from the audience. Santorum for your information is doing very well in my opinion and isn't getting much support either.

Morning after pill is not an abortion pill.

lol Ron Paul is getting to Rick Perry.  Attacking Paul is wasted energy, man!

OMG AREN'T THESE CANDIDATES SO HORRIBLE? I'LL POST THIS AGAIN ABOUT 19 TIMES BEFORE THE END OF THE DEBATE IN CASE YOU DIDN'T SEE IT EARLIER!!!

Bachmann uses Obamacare like Paul does the wars, and Santorum on the gayez...

Bachmann takes a big shot at Perry.

RICK PERRY PLAYS THE "ERR ON THE SIDE OF LIFE" TRUMP CARD

awesome

People are commenting on the individual answers of the candidates in the debate comment thread. SHOCKER.

Slam dunk on Perry.

Perry is going down...

THIS IS AWESOME

Bachmann, for one short moment, was shining like her old self again.

Here we guys! Perry dying on stage!

Bachmann is still viable as a candidate, and I am starting to like her!

What the hell? Did Perry just say, "It takes more to buy me, guys!"? Really?

Holy crap Rick Santorum is winning this debate.

Perry is getting jumped like a gang member on opposing turf!

Quite a forceful answer from Santorum. Effective.

In the words of Yoda in Revenge of the Sith,

'At an end your rule is Perry, and not short enough it was!"

Rick Santorum has obviously never visited an inner-city Texas middle school bathroom...

Perry is getting slammed right now by just about everyone. Santorum gave a good response.

Perry's "I can't be bought for $5000 line" kind of implies there is a number where he can be bought

Rick Santorum put some stank on it!  Wow.

Yeah. We got it. You think they're all dumb. Thanks.

An Michelle Bachmann, too.

Flash poll tomorrow: Rick Santorum surging from 1% support to 4% support !

AWESOME !

Santorum might well come in 2nd, 3rd for this debate. Lets see if he spews the Necon crap out in Foreign policy.

Nah, I don't like implications. Remember, I am America.

Loser pays, yes!

ROMNEY/OBAMA ATTACK AD IDEA AGAINST PERRY ALERT!!!!

Wow, I'm actually feeling bad for Perry...

Bachmann couldn't keep a straight face when Cain brought his stupid 999 plan again.

This woman just referenced the "Peoples' Tea Party." A COMMUNIST TEA PARTY GROUP?

No, not at all. I think they're pretending to be dumb because their audience is. Get it right!

nine.
nine.
nine.

Damn!  I shoulda made "nine" my drinking word for tonight instead of "ponzi"

Amen, people.

Anybody who supports this idiot is supporting Obama's re-election. In the course of two debates, he has given Obama more than enough ammo to DESTROY him. I can only imagine what else he is going to give Obama over the next six months.

Perry is crumbling like a concrete building hit by an atomic bomb. If this keeps up he will make a giant slip-up by the end of the debate.

I think Rick Perry has like a 30 to 40 minute limit for debates and then he starts to lose steam.

Oh my... Romney keeping fact checkers very busy again!

The more Perry gets exposed, the more Independents are turned off. Says PPP:

"Perry favorability nationally is 30/50, down from 33/47 3 weeks ago. 23/51 with independents.

Independents on our national poll: Obama trails Romney by 2 but leads Perry by 10"

http://twitter.com/ppppolls

WTF PEOPLE CHEERING LETTING A 30 YEAR OLD WITHOUT INSURANCE DIE!?!?!?!?1

So far, it's pretty much a draw between the Big Two, with folks like Bachmann, Paul, Huntsman, Cain, Santorum, and Newt--who names her child after an amphibian?  That's weird--all those guys advancing at the expense of Perry and Romney.  We'll have to look at the prediction thread and see who predicted this.  

Will you let him die?

Audience: Yeah!

^^^ This. I was just starting to think he might actually come out of this in better shape, but he's starting to erode.

Did people really just cheer when Paul was asked if the guy in the coma should be left to die? LOL Fail.

3 words that are smarter than 2000 pages of steaming dog crap.

Regardless of what we think here, though, he seems to be doing perfectly well in the polls.

---

Also, JESUS. CHRIST. People in the audience just cheered and hooted for letting people die. Why am I the bad person for calling this crowd repulsive?

hahah, these teabaggers sure do love death.

RON PAUL IS 100% RIGHT!!! Shame on those in the crowd yelling "yes" on the let him die thing...But, churches and friends are always their to help.

The biggest losers for the last two debates: The audiences

BTW that was only a couple of idiots in the audience.

I feel bad for Bachmann. She's trying harder than anyone else up there, though she's doing more stumping rather than debating.

This Tea Party audience just created a good future attack ad made by the Obama campaign.

Ironic since most claim to be pro-life.

Bachmann is back!

Paying more attention to MNF than the debate, so what happened with the cheering death thing?  (which doesn't surprise me considering the audience)

Bachmann seems to think that the louder your answer the better

I think she kept herself alive with her confrontation against Perry for his lobbyist ties and mandate. She's done what she needed to do tonight, and that was regain some lost support from Perry.

I wish these debates were like Survivor where we get to vote off someone for the next debate.  I'm tired of Cain and Newt at least.  Bachmann and Santorum can go, too.

Are they really? Do you have any evidence to back that up? Is there a guarantee that the Pakistani looking guy in rural Alabama who just moved in from New York city will be provided for by the churches in the area and friends he left back at his previous address? (or previous country?)

A problem exists when I am totally in agreement with Marokai Blue.

Say, how about a Risk ceasefire, Marokai?
 

A question was posed to Ron Paul if he would just allow people to die if they don't have health insurance, and a handful of people in the audience shouted "YEAH!" and others applauded. Ron Paul simply said people should "deal with the consequences of their actions" which, in itself, was just a nice way of saying "yeah, uninsured should just die in that situation."

I promise not to invade the south, at least. :P

Yes, grasshopper.  I've been preaching that on this forum for nearly eight years. 

Join us.

LoL, those are the people who say they are pro-life. Teabaggers are really insane. First, it was the death penalty thing, and now this... when I say I'm an atheist, they may call me a bad person. But I would never let someone die because he's poor. Call me a socialist if you want, too ;)
The biggest winner today is Barack Obama. And the biggest looser, whoever republicans nominate.

The Swede will do that for you, unfortunately :(

Not good, Santorum.

Yes, charities go to hospitals looking for uninsuranced people and help them. Ever hear of charity? Its a nice thing people TALK about, but do nothing on.

If it makes you feel any better I don't think I'll survive in that game very long anyway. :(

herp derp haow dew we get riyud uv all da eleegullz

Richard John Santorum is winning this debate.

Finally some boos for Perry for his response on the border fence.

And you want them to be the last line of defense for the uninsured an indigent?

I joined you 6 months ago with my Libertarian awaking. I need to change my avatar. :)

What is Perry saying?

And Latino=illegal now, Rick?

They are bringing up the Iran nuke question. I bet heavy that they call on Ron Paul.

Is it just be or do some of these guys sound completely barbaric?

I hope to whatever God these guys worship that if Obama is going to lose, then he loses to Jon Huntsman because I see America burning in flames with anyone else.

The problem is where does Perry's support go? Romney? Hah! Maybe Bachmann, Santorum, or Cain for a while but they'll eventual go back to Perry because none of them are viable candidates. It's Perry or bust for most Conservatives.

The churches do it, but people dont do it sadly. Im one of those people :(

Santorum sez:

"Maybe Perry made that deal to attract the illegal, uh, I mean Latino vote"

OOPS

Gustaf won a previous game in a position similar to mine now. But this is my first game, ever. I think I'll be out before you. We'll see; if I was Gustaf I'd be more concerned about the green hordes to the north (and whatever color Jas is) than me.

GOD BLESS RICK PERRY, THE SANE REPUBLICAN!

And what happened to Huntsman?

OH, snap!  The honorable Rick Santorum, for the third time tonight, bitch-slapped the honorable Rick Perry.  He's on a roll.

Salad Bowl?

Rick Perry gets a +1 there.   He should have added that as a border Governor he knows more about what goes on there than the gentleman from Pennsylvania.

Rick Perry gets booed. The beginning of the end ?

Santorum doesn't want anyone tossing his salad.

Yes. And thats the problem with relying on charities to pay for the uninsured. There's not enough money there.

Mitt, but Latinos are voting for Democrats.

LOL at some libs defending Perry for his immigration stance.

I have told y'all for years that libertarianism is the ideology of death.  This is the ideology that has infected my Party over the past couple of years.  Sadly, we are moving away from our pro-life roots.

OH SNAP Jon Huntsman!

Come on Huntsman, don't stoop down to Perry's level, even if it's as a joke.

Okay. John's lost his mind

wtf huntsman?

Jon Huntsman with the weakest line of the night by far.

AHAHAHAHA!!!

Romney is strong on immigration.

Immigration Topic - Big Win for Romney, Big Loss for Perry

Huntsman on the hunt!

Yes on H-1B etc.... but bad delivery!

Now Jon is starting to sink low. He isnt going to VP for anyone with that lanquage..

Yes! Huntsman burns Mitt for taking every stance on every issue ever!

Wow Huntsman is going for the cheap shots tonight.

I like Jon but it seems that he feels he has to lower himself in order to compete.

Huntsman throwing punches with the eloquence of a 2nd grade girl.

Well, someone's actually attacking Romney...but it had to be my 2nd favorite attack my favorite.

Thank you, captains obvious.

Right because we know Perry hasn't been all over the map. :P

Is it just me or is Rick Perry being constantly attacked from the right in this embarrassing monstrosity of a thing?

Wow, I thought that was Gary Johnson for a minute. Hermans right on a regulatory reduction commission too.

He is.

Marcus Huey:  "What will you do to ensure that US energy independence will finally become a reality."

Herman Cain:  "I will create a commission made of people who have been abused by the commission"

And the audience goes wild.


?!

Embarrassing? This is awesome.  The audience is proving the Tea Party is everything the "liberal media" says it is.

Turkey!?!?!

Celebrate? Not what I would call it.

I love you.

Pauls time :)

And those attacks seem pretty effective, at least as far as the audience is concerned.

Herman Cain = supreme defender of reckless nature destroying corporatists

Ron Paul just owned Newt with the clearest answer he's given in any of these debates.

Santorum vs Paul. Yay. Let Paul have more time to win!!!

Rick Santorum has won this debate.

Santorum is going to spank the child on this question.

He has done good, but not even close to winning.

Santorum: "The president of the United States should not listen to Osama bin Laden's reasons for attacking us, but instead make up their own reasons, with little basis in reality or fact."

What a silly and immature take on why we were attacked on 9/11. "We were attacked because we love freedom!"

We were attacked because exactly why Paul said we were. It's not up for debate.

They're booing Paul.

But he's been dead for 7 years.

RON PAUL.

So Doc Paul... we occupy Germany still? I know we have a base there, but I'm pretty sure the Merkle government wasn't appointed by the United States.

The rabidly pro Israeli members of the Tea Party are the most annoying people. I know, I am from Little Israel (South Florida).....If you dont support bombing and killing everyone they hate, your a "dirty Liberul Rino Commie Muslim Nazi"

Paul needed at least a minute and a half to make the right rebuttal to that.

It's a shame that they booed the truth.

This crowd certainly likes their platitudes

I have never believed that Ron Paul was a freedom fighter more then I do right now.

Jon! You NEED to learn when to stop!!

Quite impressed with Bachmann tonight.

Republican candidate tries to say a single true thing; Audience immediately starts booing him.

These people are the worst.

Rick saying two things at once.

And...I lose like all my remaining respect for CNN.

Only truth is 'en da bib-el.

WTF WOLF NO ONE CARES WHAT THEY WOULD ADD TO THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

When we come back, pointless questions that don't matter.

This country is so fuçked.

Israel is the only ally we had in the Middle East for many decades -- now, after much bloodshed, I can say the current government of Iraq is also fairly pro-American. Why should we turn our backs after sixty-three years of friendship? Especially if one of al Qaeda's goals in attacking us was for us to turn our backs on them?

Luckily, I'm pretty sure none of the candidates up there, or Barack Obama, agree with you.

"IPHONE OR BLACKBERRY"

Also, I love how Blitzer takes advantage of booing to cut off a response.

I suppose Perry would add a stripper pole for his entertainment when his male friends come to visit.

They should demand audience silence. Both booing and applause are really ruining this.

These people aren't going to win, Lief.  It's quite obvious.  If they do, it means we've all become so delusional that we could go live in piles of dung and think it's a sea of chocolate and so it won't matter anymore.

How many people actually watch this debate ?

It's not like many Republicans are watching CNN ...

NO! NO! NO!

A bedroom, Rick?  Why, so you can have more children?

Who the hell cares about what they'd do to renovate the White House?

There are 6 or 7 straight guys up there. They don't know a thing about interior design.

White House has 50 bedrooms Rick.

Newt would kick out advisors and replace them with ballet dancers.  Sweet.

It's a very important issue to independent voters.

Do they know what Austrian economics are?

Paul would bring a "bushel of common sense."

It has been confirmed, my friends: Ron Paul himself isn't even planning on going to the White House.

CAIN WITH BEST ANSWER.

America's gotta learn to take a joke!!!!

RICK PERRY THINKS HIS WIFE IS BEAUTIFUL AND SEXY AND REALLY LIKES TO PUT HIS PENIS ON HER VAGINA.

I can't stand when CNN does this in debates. We want to hear about the issues!

HE SWEARS.

Quite an anti-Mitt crowd today.  I suppose that's to be expected but jeez.  Mitt's won just about every sparring match with Perry, but the "Te-x-us Gov'ne...er" wins all the applause.

What ? It's already over ?

:(

ranking for performance (although not substance)

Santorum
Bachmann
Paul
Romney
Cain
Gingrich
Perry
Huntsman


...but Perry will still continue to be frontrunner

Paul's not concerned about winning the election, personally.  He just wants to be influential.

But he never puts it in. ;)

Cain: I'm going to bring some humor to the White House because America is too damn uptight.

Easily the best line of the night.

Wolf: You're not debating.

My prediction: Bachmann and Santorum, who I thought was a goner but not yet, are going to eat away at some of Perry's support after this.

You can always count on folks coming to their senses eventually, though. In order to ensure Obama's loss, Romney will still win this nomination...but he might be forced to stick Perry on the bottom of the ticket to placate the radicals.

sh**ttiest debate? There were so many valid questions that could have been asked, and they weren't. They went into immigration again to repeat the same exact points when they could have looked at education, or drugs, or discrimination, or how Rick Santorum had sex with a Belarusian rentboy, or human trafficking, or religious monuments in public areas. Do something new for a change.

1. Romney
2. Santorum
3. Huntsman
4. Paul (was #2 until that last question on 9/11)
5. Bachmann
6. Perry
7. Cain
8. Gingrich
9. The Audience

I was too.  And with Santorum.   And with Paul.  

This debate has been the best one so far, imho.  The top two have been weakened, Romney by his nuance, and Perry by is bravado.  Not that I don't like them.  I'd vote for a Romney/Perry ticket, and possibly even for a Perry/Romney ticket.  But this debate seems to have strengthened the weaker nominees and taken the frontrunners down a notch.

And that's what the GOP needs.  We have a penchant for strong, decisive, and confident leaders.  Leaders who never question their pre-conceived notions.

(This sh**t they're doing now is silly and irrelevant, so I'll exploit the opportunity to say something intelligent.  It's a CNN thing, no matter the moderator, and no matter whether it's a general or primary election debate.  Let them do it.  We'll use the chance to talk.  Joan Rivers style.)

What they're doing tonight is confusing the GOP.  Each party has its weaknesses.  With the Republicans, that weakness is fat-headedness.  Once in a while we need a debate which forces us to rethink.  

None of these candidates looked "presidential" tonight, but many of them said some intelligent things and it helps frame the debate.  IMHO, that's a good thing.

Was there a winner?  Yes, the Republican party is a winner tonight, by virtue of its confusion.  Hopefully, one or more of these candidates will pull his (or her) head out of his (or her) ass and figure out how to execute the office of President.

Unfortunately for Bachmann nobody gives a damn about this vaccine business when the poverty king is currently in office.

1. Santorum
2. Romney
3. Bachmann
4. Gingrich
5. Cain
6. Paul (That 9/11 answer might cause him to lose 1-2 points in the polls)
7. Huntsman (He was much stronger tonight, but his points came off flat)
8. Perry (He was attacked from the right and left, and couldn't hold his ground)
9. CNN (The last ten minutes could have been dedicated to another issue rather than that silly White House question)

Perry ain't president yet.

She has a problem with focusing on minor issues.

I have a hard time gauging who "won" that debate considering the obnoxiousness of the crowd.

Pretty much this.  I'm slightly surprised by Paul, tonight.  He didn't word his points correctly.

Paul's 9/11 answer to Giuliani had about the same feedback, and it ended up rocketing his polling numbers. Most Americans are anti-war at this point.

Anyway, that audience was pretty terrible. First, they say "YES YES" with great enthusiasm as to letting a young man die (before Paul actually gets to answer), then they boo with nearly equal enthusiasm when told that the terrorists might not be villains out to do evil for its own sake.

Anyone watchg MSNBC? Ed looks like a smurf.

It's a tea party debate.

What Huntsman said overall made a lot of sense but the audience....

David Gergen is on now talking about how Romney is the superego of the GOP and Perry represents the id.  Of course he isn't using those hackneyed Freudian terms, but that's the gist of his analysis.  That cowardly analysis confirms my impression:  neither of the two "frontrunners" advanced tonight while the others had some soundbite-worthy moments of attack.

And I still contend that this is a good thing, both for the party and for the nation's public policies.

Thoughts on tonight's debate:

Romney: He emerged unscathed and as always looked and sounded presidential. He has proved once more he has staying power and will be the nominee. A+.

Bachmann: This was a make or break tonight for her and she came back swinging. She attacked Perry and clearly will be chipping away at Perry's support. This is now a Romney, Perry and Bachmann race. B+.

Perry: He is the flavor of the month and like all those who came before him will drift away. Rick Perry will not win the nomination, or the presidency. C-

Gingrich: He is always entertaining and knows how to deliver a punch. I could see Gingrich a VP choice or someone to have a role in a Republican Administration. C

Santorum: He gave a spirited performance tonight, but I don't see him going anywhere. D+.

Cain: He's funny and raises good points. He had some great applause lines, but I don't foresee a rise in the polls. D

Huntsman: An okay performance, but I don't see him going anywhere. C

Paul: There he goes again. F

Conclusion: Romney, Perry and Bachmann are the frontrunners for the nomination. Bachmann will chip away at Perry. This is Romney's nomination.

You don't have to worry, if you actually are one of the few who care about poverty. It was lower under all of the last 3 Texas Presidents.

You mean Lyndon Johnson--Great Society--Texas President?

The questions were fine but the way they responded only to talking points was ridiculous. And Huntsman's appeal to get rid of corporate welfare from the tax code was completely ignored. I thought these people would be in favor of that, but I guess they don't even grasp the concept.

I didnt get to watch he debate so I want to say thank you for this thread and to all who posted in it.
It gave me a way to 'enjoy' the debate. 

Huntsman must have noticed he wasn't getting any attention and so went on the attack, poorly. I doubt you'll see it again.

He would be one of 3. Of course, government spending was much lower then even at the peak of the Vietnam war.

Oh yeah that was awesome! Very Christian of them.

()

That is a very nice graph that unfortunately cuts off quite a bit too soon. Poverty is now likely over 15%.

2011 data does not exist yet.  It was 14.3 in 2010.

It felt like Bachamann was put in the Santorum corner tonight. Sad considering this would be her crowd. I loved Perry getting pwned by Romney and Huntsman on immigration and Paul schooling Santorum on blowback due to foreign interventionism. Remember Chairman Sanchez, I'm one of those odd pro-Israel Ron Paul supporters and think the congressman had to call to account the militarism.

As for my rankings

1. Ron Paul: His line on common sense narrowly overcome my second place pick for tonight. If he had just a little more time regarding the 9/11 comment those misguided boos would've been cheers.
2. Jon Huntsman: He was the most articulate of the candidates tonight made Romney look real bad and was the most improved
This next one I can't believe I'm saying this
3. Rick Santorum: On many issues I agree with him yet your foreign policy is seriously flawed we do not need to police the world
4. Herman Cain: You get points for your 999 plan "which as a bridge to a full fairtax plan I would support" the humor at the end was great
5.Newt Gingrich: Solid as always but it's the little things Newt. Thanks for the dogpile on Romney for Romneycare and Perry for his Dream act lite.
6. Michelle Bachamann: She was largely ignored tonight and it hurt her. When she got in she was excellent but I fell she was lost in the shuffle tonight.
7. Mitt Romney: Thank you for joining in on pwning Perry on immigration. Though you got schooled by everybody on Romneycare. Good comments on eliminating capital gains but I still won't vote for you ever.
8. Rick Perry: If you're gonna be a Tea Party candidate you don't advocate a Dream Act Lite.
 

JohnnyLongtorso,

Not to sound like a broken record, but WTF?  Nice graph, as has been pointed out, but the employment certainly fluctuates.  No new information there.

Not sure what "Good job Texas Presidents" is meant to say either.  The Republic of Texas only had a few presidents, and all of them died long before the 20th century began.  In the time period covered, only one US President was born in Texas, and poverty, according to the graph, fell from about 20 percent to about 12 percent during his tenure.

More broadly, what are we meant to take from this graph?  There doesn't seem to be any correlation to anything.  Even the purple "recession" periods don't show any monotonic increase or decrease.   In some case it's up, in some cases it's down, and in some cases it's just sort of flat.

And, when I try to look at periods wherein congress was controlled by Republicans, sometimes I see unemployment going up and sometimes it's going down.  Similarly, I see times when Democrats controlled congress and unemployment went up and sometimes it's down.

So, what's your point?

14.3 in 2009 actually, for which the data was released in September 2010. We should be due for new figures soon.

It should be pretty obvious that I was making fun of krazen's factually inaccurate comment about "Texas presidents" reducing poverty. Hence why it was, you know, quoted.

Obviously the comprehension of english words is not your strong suit.

Now, now, boys. 

The thing is, you can't say how any president's legislative agenda affected poverty based on this graph alone.  (Although, admittedly, the dramatic decrease in the poverty level during Johnson's administration is hard to ignore.)

You'd have to correlate those decreases or increases with actual policy proposals made by those presidents to the data.  And I'm far to lazy to try to do that for you. 

I think you're both a bit off your rockers.  According to economic theory, unemployment is a function of population, wages, technology, money supply, and inflation. 

But I'm going to bow out now and let you argue among yourselves. 

Dude, it was a joke. I have no reason to argue with krazen because he's a robot that spits out Republican talking points. He's only good for mocking.

Politics, in general, is not one of his strong suits.

And, a condescending arrogant sarcasm directed against their critics is one of hallmarks of left.

In Longtorso we have a man whom claims to support commission-style redistricting, yet, is part of the Swing State Project that equated the gerrymandering of Illinois with the joyous Holiday of Christmas!

Since his actual statement was,



it is quite obvious that you are constructing a strawman.

No, I suspect his lack of grasp of English might lead the words 'lower' and 'reduce' somehow being substituted for each other.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 This moderator (Blitzer) did the best job so far keeping the action on the candidates - CNN gets a good grade.

 The opposition to the TEA party is saying to CNN reporters to be in fear of such a group/audience. There was the national anthem, and, if there would of been the usual accompanying prayer, they the atheist/libs would of most likely had an heart attack, so, CNN had to draw the line, - saving the bulk of their normal audience such an inconvenience.

 I was looking for who could keep at it, with the debate, if, it where longer; it would give more to their ability to keep their wit, not getting punchy, keeping composure from policy assaults and such.

 It didn't look and sound like any of candidates lost any ground with their base.
 Governors and their respective states have a "illegals" problem because of the many years of weak enforcement and appeasement of federal law. Here in Arkansas, illegals get more freebies than it's own citizens do, even a new Mexican consulate at tax payer expense - thank you Huckabee and followed up by now Gov. Beebe.

 If only the Mexican people would have as much ambition to fight for their liberty in their country as they do breaking immigration laws here. There would be plenty of support from here, the USA, to reconstitute, liberate Mexico, yes, people will die from the liberation of Mexico, the ? is, would it be Mexicans?

 Illegals and entitlements (health) are promises made by past politicians that do not have to be held accountable for their actions - they're gone now, leaving the present political structure no sustainable outcome. Perry did what he has done for votes, no different than any other good Democrat and the rino's.

 The comment on Reagan's amnesty - Reagan and the country was burned by the deal from Dems, just like Bush senior did. Romney did say, trusting a Dem in any form of a deal, is a fools choice or something to that effect.

A lot of naivete and simplistic BS was offered up tonight by many, with nobody even breathing the notion that maybe we have some tough choices down the road to make. The list I had was long of nonsensical, dumb, errant, only half the story, and why didn't you say this was the real choice I had to make and it was tough, but why didn't you just say that here is the reason why to me it was prudentially and morally compelling to the point that I took the left fork in the road (, e.g., God I wish I could have helped Perry defend better his Hobson's choice about giving in-state college tuition to illegals).  

The thing I most remember was that terrible off-key rendition of the national anthem. It was one of the worst I have ever had to endure.

Romney was really good. He just gets better and better. It is clear that he just knows more than the rest. He has an organized mind. He was really good this time at neutralizing Mass Romneycare. He really shredded Perry on SS, who just got deeper and deeper into his tarbaby. Perry seems to be saying he is willing to carry on this unconstitutional ponzi scheme for a couple of decades, and then do something unspecified. If he thinks its unconstitutional, why doesn't he just file a lawsuit? Romney just gutted him on that. And why didn't Perry take Bachmann out when she kept calling this teen female vaccination a mandate and coercion and so forth? Santorum sort of almost helped Perry out when he said that the problem was the opt out as opposed to opt in, but then realized he was giving Perry a lifeboat, and shut up before really explaining what he meant. That would have  helped remind Perry to say, hey it is not a mandate, it is a service offered that anyone can refuse. Perry is rather pathetic really. I feel sorry for him almost. He's a masochist for getting into this fray.

Bachmann was given a free ride tonight because she has been written off. Thus she did really well (she is really quite smart and crisp even though I disagree with her on so many levels), and I think maybe gave her maybe about a 1% chance of getting the silver now, if Mitt gets caught in a gay tryst or something.

What is "NGO" about Huntsman?  Stop it!  Huntsman is beginning to persuade me that he is just not as smart and knowledgable as Romney. He just can't offer up some descriptive specifics to embroider his generalized claims, which claims may well be true. Candidates need to learn to offer up descriptive specifics that seem compelling in a very pithy way, when pressed for time. The best debaters do that. Clinton did that. Mitt is getting much better at that. I am concerned that Huntsman just doesn't have a sufficiently disciplined mind. Dubya was no genius, and not very intellectually curious, but made up for it some by being disciplined. I don't see it so far with Huntsman. I do with Mittens.

It is more and more clear to me that Mitt will be the nominee. Drip, drip.

You seem to have way too much confidence that either Mitt or Huntsman could be the nominee. Mitt has a good chance, no doubt, but did you check out the audience? These are the people they have to appeal to in order to win.

Bachmann hurt herself by impugning Perry's motives. Does she really believe it was about a campaign donation?
But I'm so glad Perry errs on the side of life . . .  except when it comes to the state actually killing people.

*is amused at the idea that you can measure poverty in that sort of way*

Well, something is being measured.  Call it what you will.

We like statistics, and HHS has come up with the definition of poverty as a "family of four living at or below an income of $22314 per year."  Other incomes for other family sizes, of course.  And, technically, the income thresholds do vary with age of family members in their full algorithm.  The US Department of agriculture provides food costs data.  There are something like 48 different thresholds in use.  But obviously it's a statistical yardstick, and not a complete description of poverty in the abstract sense.

Whatever you make of it, it's an objective, time-varying parameter, and it's now at 46.2 million people.  That's huge.  Highest level in the 52 years that the statistics have been collected.

The aggregate GDP may be increasing, and that may have economists saying that the recession was brief, and finished about 2 years ago, but maybe other indicators besides GDP growth should be given more weight in the minds of policy makers.  This poverty index is just one of those indicators. 

To say that Obama will coast to re-election with 8.5% unemployment or higher is irrational.  Sure, it depends on his opponent, but in most scenarios, Obama will lose re-election with those numbers. 

As the officially elected and currently serving President, yes Obama is part of the establishment.  He's become management, he's "The Man in Charge" and whether liberals or democrats like it or not, there will always be opposing forces to his supposedly "successful policies." 

I'm surprised that over the last 2 years, Obama was a shrinking president who seemed publicly lost after the success of his "anti-war" platform.  During the campaign, he publicly connected with the anti-war and anti-Bush public.  I think he's in over his head now.  Its good that he seems to be back in campaign mode and publicly talking about the economy and jobs, but I think its too late.  He's lost much of the swing voters by now. 

Prophetic!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/13/national/main20105376.shtml

Poverty continues to rise in U.S., now 15.1%



Since the crown fits, wear it with pride, obama.

Just watching the debate now. 8 minutes in and no debating has started yet. The national anthem thing is rather overboard.

Turkey is our real Middle Eastern ally.

Israel has the right to exist and all, but it needs to get its head out of its rear.

Richard Brookheiser (Sr Editor, National Review) (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277039/debate-reax-richard-brookhiser)

Saw this on a Ron Paul site I frequent, so keep that in mind, but I thought it was interesting.

Total candidate talking time (in seconds): 4041

Percent of time by candidate:

Perry: 21.3%
Romney: 15.7%
Bachmann: 12.7%
Huntsman: 11.3%
Gingrich: 10.8%
Santorum: 10.4%
Paul: 9.6%
Cain: 8.2%

link: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?315288-Percent-Debate-Time-By-Candidate

Paul should have had more time, Huntsman less. Also, I will say that Santorum knows how to utilize his time effectively to get his message out.

It's the highest raw number of people in 52. It's nowhere near the pre-Great Society percent. It is the highest precent since the early 90s recession. And the GOP is 100% convinced that cutting capital gains taxes or the large inheritance tax and all other taxes that primarly hit richers is the solution for people in poverty ::)

That's why we recognize Northern Cyprus.


How is Israel's head in its rear? With regard to its policies on Palestine, the founding declaration of the PLO states that Israel does not have the right to exist. Hamas also affirms this. Fatah believes in (this is a quote the Constitution of Fatah):

12. Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence.

Does this amount to a forced removal (or an 'eradication') of settlers, many of whom have lived in today's West Bank for several generations, since before the Israeli declaration of independence?

Fatah also maintains a military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. The AAMB is recognized by the United States as a terrorist organization, while Fatah is not (something I find contradictory; the two are very closely linked).

Additionally, with many of its neighbors hostile (consider the anti-Israeli agitation in Egypt that recently occurred), Israel must, for its own survival, maintain a large military.

But this is the wrong thread for this sort of thing; that would be International General Discussion.

True, it's the highest raw number, but as a percent it was matched in around 1992.

As for the Great Depression, you cannot make any objective claims, since the agency wasn't collecting this particular statistic.  But, yes, with an unemployment rate of 25ish percent, it's probably safe to say that there was "more poverty" in the 30s than today.  Still, it's not quantifiable.

As for the trickle-down theory, obviously there's room for argument there.  I don't want to get into it, as my views are too left for Republicans and too right for Democrats, and I'd just be like Rick Perry, a faction of one, having to defend arguments from both sides.

Yes, I saw that too. Even more annoying is that Paul was never given a chance of rebuttal until the end, that the question regarding the Federal Reserve (which is to him what frothing at gays is to Santorum) had him as the only candidate NOT given an answer, and several of his questions being entirely loaded (the "YOU WOULD LET THIS INNOCENT MAN DIE" question comes to mind). Fortunately, he performed great up until the 9/11 question (whereupon he managed to stumble upon the only way he could make Santorum look correct), and the main focus of this debate was Perry getting crushed from attacks from literally every direction (Though I doubt the media pundits would admit his overwhelming defeat even if he started engaging in name calling)



Israel punishes innocents as much as it punishes terrorists, if not more. This, in turn, radicalizes those they don't kill into becoming terrorists. For example, starving out what amounts to a giant ghetto with a blockade to defeat a single group of terrorists only makes them angrier, as does carpet bombing large areas to catch a couple of low quality rocket launchers. Yes, Israel fights terrorists. But Israel is a nation, it should hold to higher standards than those of terrorists.

FactCheck.org's take on the debate (http://factcheck.org/2011/09/cnntea-party-debate/), if anyone cares about such things.

It's very easy to spot facts in this debate.  Whatever was booed is the truth.