Atlas Forum

General Politics => International General Discussion => Topic started by: Duke David on September 17, 2011, 10:39:27 am



Title: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 17, 2011, 10:39:27 am
On Sunday, 9/18/2011 Berlin's mayor, Klaus Wowereit, will be reelected in an election which has been attached much value, not only in Germany but also in many European countries.
There's a reason for that: The Social Democrats (SPD) are going to hold primaries for the first time to nominate a chancellor candidate, who will run against Christian Democrat Angela Merkel by September 2013 (presumably even earlier); Wowereit is talked about as a nominee by the left wing, whereas his hardest opponent, former Finance Minister Peer Steinbrück, achieves support from fiscal conservatives.

The interesting thing about that primary is: Klaus Wowereit is gay. His most famous statement is:

Ich bin schwul, und das ist auch gut so, liebe Genossinnen und Genossen.
In English: I am gay, and that is a goog thing, dear party members.

Since Merkel's CDU will definitely lose the next federal election, which is verified by each poll, it may become possible that Germany will be ruled by a homosexual for the first time. (Hey Forbes, I've got an idea for you. :) ) In that case Wowereit will also be the most powerful homosexual in the world - assumed Fred Karger will not be the Republican nominee for President. And yes, Iceland's prime minister is a Lesbian, but it's just ... Iceland. ;)

Could you imagine a gay Chancellor representing Germany in the US, in Russia, in China or even in Saudi-Arabia? Will the foreign press still take us seriously? Will the future US president receive Wowereit, no matter who has made it to the White House; Obama or Paul wouldn't cause trouble, but won't Perry or even Bachmann either?

BTW: Our foreign minister and former Vice Chancellor, Guido Westerwelle, is gay, and he has been failing miserably. He isn't even capable of speaking English. :)

So, what do you think about this topic? Scandal or pettiness?

PS: Sorry for my lousy English.

PPS: I am not gay!!!


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: A Strange Reflection on September 17, 2011, 10:41:49 am
Why in the world would it ? I like to think most people aren't that stupid in 2011.

Also, you made me learn a new German word. :P


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 17, 2011, 10:44:22 am
Also, you made me learn a new German word. :P

Which?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on September 17, 2011, 10:52:39 am
On Sunday, 9/18/2011 Berlin's mayor, Klaus Wowereit, will be reelected in an election which has been attached much value, not only in Germany but also in many European countries.
There's a reason for that: The Social Democrats (SPD) are going to hold primaries for the first time to nominate a chancellor candidate, who will run against Christian Democrat Angela Merkel by September 2013 (presumably even earlier); Wowereit is talked about as a nominee by the left wing, whereas his hardest opponent, former Finance Minister Peer Steinbrück, achieves support from fiscal conservatives.

Last thing I heard is that Sigmar Gabriel was backpaddeling on that one. In any case, the SPD wanted to hold a primary-like election since at least 1994 and it never materialized. I believe it when it happens.



Since Merkel's CDU will definitely lose the next federal election, which is verified by each poll, it may become possible that Germany will be ruled by a homosexual for the first time. (Hey Forbes, I've got an idea for you. :) )

Any event that is still two years into the future is far from "definite".



Could you imagine a gay Chancellor representing Germany in the US, in Russia, in China or even in Saudi-Arabia? Will the foreign press still take us seriously? Will the future US president receive Wowereit, no matter who has made it to the White House; Obama or Paul wouldn't cause trouble, but won't Perry or even Bachmann either?

Well, Westerwelle made it out of Saudi Arabia alive, so I don't see how it should be a problem. No big deal here.



Voted for option 3 btw. Same as with Westerwelle, basically.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 17, 2011, 10:55:10 am
Tempted to move this to International General. Thoughts?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: A Strange Reflection on September 17, 2011, 11:00:22 am
Tempted to move this to International General. Thoughts?

Yeah, that seems right.


Also, you made me learn a new German word. :P

Which?

Guess. ;)


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 17, 2011, 11:04:00 am
Tempted to move this to International General. Thoughts?

Nope. There are so many threads in this forum that it's hard to find one's bearings. I'm sorry.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Tender Branson on September 17, 2011, 11:04:46 am
Tempted to move this to International General. Thoughts?

Yes.

As for the question:

I think Wowereit would of course be taken seriously by the leaders of other countries. Most of them are not backwards thinking. Unless maybe Rick Santorum or Michele Bachmann would be elected President next year ...

PS: The difference between Westerwelle and Wowi-Bear is that Westerwave is an arrogant prick, while Wowereit comes over as likeable.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Swedish Austerity Cheese on September 17, 2011, 11:41:26 am
I don't think he'd have much of a problem. As someone pointed out, Westerwelle hasn't had any problems right. And Iceland already has a lesbian Prime Minister.   

That being said for the sake of us gays good reputation everywhere I hope the first gay chancellor isn't a crappy Berlin communist.

Also as someone pointed out polls two years before an election does not mean anything. Otherwise Margret Thatcher would have been a one-term Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd would have won a decisive victory in the 2010 Australian election, Olof Palme would have been rejected by the Swedish voters for a fourth time in 1985, and our current PM would be named Mona Sahlin. And even if the left were to win the next German election, not too long ago the Greens were at SPD's heels for largest left-wing party. That trend might very well return.

EDIT: I'm guessing Franzl would immigrate if that happened. He hates Wowereit with a burning passion. :P (It's alright, you'd always be welcome in Sweden Franz)


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: greenforest32 on September 17, 2011, 11:49:39 am
I don't think it would be a problem. Not to mention one of the first things they'd see done if they + Greens/Left/etc win the 2013 elections is legalizing same-sex marriage in Germany. The CDU/CSU is the main blockers of this right now I think.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: A Strange Reflection on September 17, 2011, 11:56:56 am
That being said for the sake of us gays good reputation everywhere I hope the first gay chancellor isn't a crappy Berlin communist.

::)


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Franzl on September 17, 2011, 12:00:55 pm
That being said for the sake of us gays good reputation everywhere I hope the first gay chancellor isn't a crappy Berlin communist.

::)

Swedish Cheese summarized it pretty well. ;)


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: MaxQue on September 17, 2011, 12:55:50 pm
Considering than Germany is the more powerful country in European Union, no counry will be dumbb enough to ignore them.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 17, 2011, 12:59:44 pm
Tempted to move this to International General. Thoughts?

Nope. There are so many threads in this forum that it's hard to find one's bearings. I'm sorry.

Do you mean that the entire forum is hard to find your way around, or the IGD board in particular?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Tender Branson on September 17, 2011, 01:00:44 pm
Considering than Germany is the more powerful country in European Union, no counry will be dumbb enough to ignore them.

We should also consider that any leader that voices "discontent" with Wowereit's sexuality would probably be ripped apart by the media in his/her home country. At least in the EU countries and also in the US. Probably also in the Latin American countries. Don't know about it how the "media" in Asian/Arab/African countries would react.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Franzl on September 17, 2011, 01:05:50 pm
Internally in Germany at least, I've come to believe that sexual orientation is truly irrelevant now. We've made it to that wonderful point.

Many people love Wowereit, I think he's a complete idiot and I have a strong dislike for his character...but neither they nor I consider his sexuality when forming these opinions, as far as I can see.

Westerwelle led the FDP to their best result of all time, and now he's probably the most hated figure in German politics. If you didn't know he was gay, you wouldn't find out in political discussions or in the media.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Teddy (IDS Legislator) on September 17, 2011, 03:07:55 pm
Toronto Mayor George Smitherman and Quebec Premier Andre Boisclair both had huge leads in the polls at one point...


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: big bad fab on September 17, 2011, 03:09:38 pm
This belongs to IGD board.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 17, 2011, 03:18:01 pm
This belongs to IGD board.

Then, dear moderator, relocate this thread, or tell me how to do it by myself (as far as I'm authorized.)


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: JonBidinger on September 17, 2011, 03:19:44 pm
I believe that within Germany it would be a non-issue for the most part, and as for without, Westerwelle and Sigurdardottir don't seem to be having major problems.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Come grasp the mighty avatar of our admin on September 17, 2011, 03:40:36 pm
This belongs to IGD board.

Then, dear moderator, relocate this thread, or tell me how to do it by myself (as far as I'm authorized.)

Didn't know Fab has an authority over third board.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 17, 2011, 06:16:46 pm
This belongs to IGD board.

Then, dear moderator, relocate this thread, or tell me how to do it by myself (as far as I'm authorized.)

Ah, but this is not his board, but mine. Anyways, I guess I'll allow democracy to reign for a change.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: MaxQue on September 17, 2011, 06:56:47 pm
Toronto Mayor George Smitherman and Quebec Premier Andre Boisclair both had huge leads in the polls at one point...

André Boisclair was an embarassingly bad campaigner, too.
And he was a cocaine-user while he was in Cabinet, which sounds bad in the mind of voters.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 17, 2011, 07:01:12 pm
And he was a cocaine-user while he was in Cabinet, which sounds bad in the mind of voters.

Love the litotes there.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Come grasp the mighty avatar of our admin on September 17, 2011, 07:23:06 pm
Anyway, I'd like to remind our new poster that Germany is not Oklahoma. Get it?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 17, 2011, 07:43:27 pm
Anyway, I'd like to remind our new poster that Germany is not Oklahoma. Get it?

What do I need to express regret for, Texecutioner?
For having been born in Oklahoma? Or for my parents having moved back to Germany?


@ Sibboleth

Could you delete all comments that don't bear upon the topic, please? Thanks.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: MaxQue on September 17, 2011, 08:16:27 pm
And he was a cocaine-user while he was in Cabinet, which sounds bad in the mind of voters.

Love the litotes there.

Oh, I'm not denying than him being gay probably had a role in his bad result, but I don't see any litote in my comment.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 17, 2011, 08:25:20 pm
And he was a cocaine-user while he was in Cabinet, which sounds bad in the mind of voters.

Love the litotes there.

Oh, I'm not denying than him being gay probably had a role in his bad result, but I don't see any litote in my comment.

I'm a bit tired so used the wrong word :)

I just liked the almost rhetorical understatement (whether intentional or not) of 'sounds bad' in that context.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: MaxQue on September 17, 2011, 09:23:38 pm
And he was a cocaine-user while he was in Cabinet, which sounds bad in the mind of voters.

Love the litotes there.

Oh, I'm not denying than him being gay probably had a role in his bad result, but I don't see any litote in my comment.

I'm a bit tired so used the wrong word :)

I just liked the almost rhetorical understatement (whether intentional or not) of 'sounds bad' in that context.

Well, with Quebec voters, you never know!

To return to the subject, the biggest problem of Wovereit is him being quite to the left, not him being gay.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on September 18, 2011, 02:01:01 am
I don't think it would be a problem. Not to mention one of the first things they'd see done if they + Greens/Left/etc win the 2013 elections is legalizing same-sex marriage in Germany. The CDU/CSU is the main blockers of this right now I think.

Not entirely. The issue is different from the one in America. We have something that could be called "civil unions" for a little over a decade now. Since then, political debate has been about making those civil unions equal/virtually identical to heterosexual marriages in all but name. Which is exactly what started to happen step by step over the years.

However, Germany never had much of a fetish over calling it "marriage". Colloquially it is usually referred to as marriage anyway, even if the letters of the law says otherwise (officially it is called eingetragene Lebenspartnerschaft which of course nobody would use for the sheer length of the term). Debate has been more about substantial things like giving gays the right to adopt children than to change the formal name to "marriage".

Fun fact: Westerwelle originally voted against legalizing civil unions back in 2000. He's now married himself. :P Then again, he voted against the law prior to his coming out.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Swedish Austerity Cheese on September 18, 2011, 02:34:08 am
Anyway, I'd like to remind our new poster that Germany is not Oklahoma. Get it?

What do I need to express regret for, Texecutioner?
For having been born in Oklahoma? Or for my parents having moved back to Germany?

Oh don't mind Kalwejt. He's a nice guy, he just has a complex because his country (Poland) was pwned by so many other places in history he needs to find his own place to pick on to compensate. :P And he might be confusing you with our other forum Oklahoma Democrat.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 18, 2011, 04:20:02 am
PPS: I am not gay!!!

This is very important, evidently.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: A Strange Reflection on September 18, 2011, 04:23:48 am
PPS: I am not gay!!!

This is very important, evidently.

LOL


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 18, 2011, 12:15:39 pm
Wowereit's SPD, as expected, has won today's Berlin state election with about 30% and is able to form a red-green coalition.

With this election result, a potential candidacy of Wowereit for Chancellor is coming closer.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Come grasp the mighty avatar of our admin on September 18, 2011, 01:30:19 pm
Anyway, I'd like to remind our new poster that Germany is not Oklahoma. Get it?

What do I need to express regret for, Texecutioner?
For having been born in Oklahoma? Or for my parents having moved back to Germany?

Oh don't mind Kalwejt. He's a nice guy, he just has a complex because his country (Poland) was pwned by so many other places in history he needs to find his own place to pick on to compensate. :P And he might be confusing you with our other forum Oklahoma Democrat.

I thought it's Mechaman :P

(Also, apologize for Deluge)


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on September 18, 2011, 03:07:09 pm
With this election result, a potential candidacy of Wowereit for Chancellor is coming closer.

I don't see how this has become more likely now because of this election. His victory was solid, but not exactly spectacular.

Election result: 28.5%
Final poll prior to election: 31.0%

2006 election result: 30.8%
2001 election result: 29.7%

SPIEGEL Online calls his victory "unglamorous".


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on September 18, 2011, 03:19:38 pm
Wowi is very happy to stay where he is for as long as the voters allow. I think that was quite clear from his tv appearances today.
Which were also uncharacteristically camp.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on September 18, 2011, 03:29:36 pm
Which were also uncharacteristically camp.

Mabye he was just drunk. :D


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 18, 2011, 03:30:21 pm
Wowi is very happy to stay where he is for as long as the voters allow. I think that was quite clear from his tv appearances today.
Which were also uncharacteristically camp.

Either way, Wowereit is going to stay in Berlin. :P


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on September 18, 2011, 03:33:50 pm
Which were also uncharacteristically camp.

Mabye he was just drunk. :D
I'm pretty sure he had a couple of glasses of Sekt just before. He was soberer again later on.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 18, 2011, 04:08:15 pm
I don't see how this has become more likely now because of this election. His victory was solid, but not exactly spectacular.

When the new senate is built, it will be irrelevant how "glamorous" the election results have been.

In case Wowereit is running for Chancellor, Steinbrück (and maybe Steinmeier) will be his main opponent.
Whereas the latter has never won any election (not even a direct mandate), Wowereit has been reelected for a second time. It's a fact that matters to the party strategists.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on September 18, 2011, 04:25:59 pm
By that logic, Kurt Beck should have become the SPD's nominee in 2009 (or 2013, for that matter).


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 18, 2011, 05:18:24 pm
By that logic, Kurt Beck should have become the SPD's nominee in 2009 (or 2013, for that matter).

If Beck hadn't been bullied by his colleagues, he could have run against Merkel in 2009.
Of course, he wouldn't have had any chance of becoming Chancellor, but he might have performed well enough in the southwest so that we could have been spared the humiliation of Westerwave. :o

Moreover, I don't claim that Wowereit will become the SPD's nominee at any rate, I just say that his chances have risen tremendously since his reelection.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: J. J. on September 18, 2011, 07:43:32 pm

Since Merkel's CDU will definitely lose the next federal election, which is verified by each poll, it may become possible that Germany will be ruled by a homosexual for the first time. (Hey Forbes, I've got an idea for you. :) )

Since von Bulow.  ;)

Quote
PPS: I am not gay!!!

Not that there is anything wrong with it.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on September 19, 2011, 02:40:42 am
Moreover, I don't claim that Wowereit will become the SPD's nominee at any rate, I just say that his chances have risen tremendously since his reelection.

This was his worst election result since 2001. He was re-elected as expected, but not as strong as expected. The fact that the Greens also failed to meet expectations doesn't change that.

So I fail to see how this risis his chances "tremendously". His chances are the same as before the election, maybe even a little lower.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Franzl on September 19, 2011, 02:44:25 am
Moreover, I don't claim that Wowereit will become the SPD's nominee at any rate, I just say that his chances have risen tremendously since his reelection.

This was his worst election result since 2001. He was re-elected as expected, but not as strong as expected. The fact that the Greens also failed to meet expectations doesn't change that.

So I fail to see how this risis his chances "tremendously". His chances are the same as before the election, maybe even a little lower.

His government was voted out....and his prefered coalition has a majority of 2 seats. I can't see how this improves his chances for anything. Except being able to continue as Mayor of Berlin.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: The Mikado on September 19, 2011, 11:58:52 am
Atheist 2006, is 2006 your birth year?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on September 19, 2011, 12:24:51 pm
Atheist 2006, is 2006 your birth year?
No, that's your death year, Mick.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 19, 2011, 04:30:19 pm
Atheist 2006, is 2006 your birth year?

What's the red blob on your profile picture? An optical magnification of your brain?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Come grasp the mighty avatar of our admin on September 19, 2011, 04:35:06 pm
Atheist 2006, is 2006 your birth year?

You really need to ask obvious questions?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 20, 2011, 06:22:40 am
Any event that is still two years into the future is far from "definite".

Under no circumstances will this malformed black-yellow coalition endure two more years...


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: A Strange Reflection on September 20, 2011, 06:25:16 am
Any event that is still two years into the future is far from "definite".

Under no circumstances will this malformed black-yellow coalition endure two more years...

You really seem to be a great expert on German politics. ::)


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Come grasp the mighty avatar of our admin on September 20, 2011, 07:14:53 am
Any event that is still two years into the future is far from "definite".

Under no circumstances will this malformed black-yellow coalition endure two more years...

You really seem to be a great expert on German politics. ::)

Under no circumstances such things would happen in Oklahoma.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Duke David on September 20, 2011, 07:20:09 am
How brilliant is that? I've finally got a stalker...


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Come grasp the mighty avatar of our admin on September 20, 2011, 09:53:15 am
How brilliant is that? I've finally got a stalker...

In your dreams.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Trounce-'em Theresa on September 20, 2011, 10:00:37 am
How brilliant is that? I've finally got a stalker...

First time on the internet, sugar?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Peter the Lefty on November 13, 2011, 04:35:03 pm
A question for Germans: As of right now, what would you say are Wowereit's chances of being the SPD's nominee for Chancellor percentage wise?  And are there any polls showing how the SPD would fare if he were it's nominee?


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on November 13, 2011, 05:01:07 pm
A question for Germans: As of right now, what would you say are Wowereit's chances of being the SPD's nominee for Chancellor percentage wise?

Uh, hard to say. 10%? 20% max.? Probably much closer to 10% after his decision to form a coalition with the CDU instead of one with the Greens in Berlin.

Gabriel, Steinmeier, and Steinbrück are the relevant potential candidates at the moment. Wowereit is probably fourth in line, maybe even fifth, if we count Olaf Scholz in.



And are there any polls showing how the SPD would fare if he were it's nominee?

We don't do such polls. There are only "which party would you vote for" and (hypothetical) "which Chancellor would you vote for" polls? I don't know if a Merkel vs. Wowereit poll was ever done though.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Peter the Lefty on November 13, 2011, 07:32:53 pm
A question for Germans: As of right now, what would you say are Wowereit's chances of being the SPD's nominee for Chancellor percentage wise?

Uh, hard to say. 10%? 20% max.? Probably much closer to 10% after his decision to form a coalition with the CDU instead of one with the Greens in Berlin.

Gabriel, Steinmeier, and Steinbrück are the relevant potential candidates at the moment. Wowereit is probably fourth in line, maybe even fifth, if we count Olaf Scholz in.



And are there any polls showing how the SPD would fare if he were it's nominee?

We don't do such polls. There are only "which party would you vote for" and (hypothetical) "which Chancellor would you vote for" polls? I don't know if a Merkel vs. Wowereit poll was ever done though.

I know that, but there must be polls on how people's voting intentions would change depending on who a party was led by.  I realize it's by party, which I think is a much better system than the one we have in the US. 


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on November 14, 2011, 12:26:07 pm
I know that, but there must be polls on how people's voting intentions would change depending on who a party was led by.

None that I'm aware of.

The closest thing are the "who would you prefer as Chancellor (Merkel vs. X)?" and "who would you prefer as SPD Chancellor-candidate?" polls. Usually, Steinmeier, Steinbrück, and Gabriel are included in these polls. Sometimes also Wowereit, Scholz, and Hannelore Kraft, but those tend to be the SPD Chancellor-candidate polls and not the Chancellor polls.

Polls are usually led by Steinbrück and/or Steinmeier. At best, Wowereit is then tied with Gabriel for 3rd place.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: republicanism on November 15, 2011, 12:37:18 am

Wowereit didn't make a move to run for nomination until now. Not the slightest. Many see him as a potential candidate for the very fact that he is the only high-ranking "left-winger" in the SPD at the moment. Besides that, no sign of interest on his side.

But the election is two years ahead.
And it seems that Steinbrück's strange ego-campaign flanked by his 91-year-old buddy Helmut Schmidt came to early, the media is annoyed already.

Of course the party leaders will try to make him the candidate anyhow.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: True Federalist on November 15, 2011, 01:51:16 am
likely to have some difficulty finalizing trade deals in parts of Africa and the Middle East, but that can be dealt with by leaving that to the foreign minister.  Only if Germany had a gay trifecta of President, Chancellor, and Foreign Minister would there be a serious problem for Germany.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: republicanism on November 15, 2011, 10:13:07 am

Oh, and this:

The interesting thing about that primary is: Klaus Wowereit is gay. His most famous statement is:

Ich bin schwul, und das ist auch gut so, liebe Genossinnen und Genossen.
In English: I am gay, and that is a goog thing, dear party members.

Of course he says "comrades", not "party members".


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on November 15, 2011, 05:43:55 pm
Many see him as a potential candidate for the very fact that he is the only high-ranking "left-winger" in the SPD at the moment.

It's time to do away with that myth.

I bet most people couldn't name three political issues where Wowereit is more left-wing than, let's say, Frank-Walter Steinmeier. Wowereit's reputation as a left-winger is mostly based on the fact that he had governed with the PDS/Left for the past ten years, and even preferred such a coalition over SPD/Greens. However, he's governing with the CDU now (and again, preferring it over SPD/Greens), so the reason for his classification as a left-winger has ceased to exist.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: republicanism on November 16, 2011, 11:50:25 pm
It's time to do away with that myth.

Well, he is a leftwinger because that is just his position in the framework of wings and groups inside the SPD. And that is what counts politically.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on November 17, 2011, 08:44:13 am
Well, he is a leftwinger because that is just his position in the framework of wings and groups inside the SPD. And that is what counts politically.

Yeah, that's the way this things work. A nice historical example from over here would be the fact that on most issues, Gaitskell was clearly to the left of Wilson, but to have argued that at the time... lol.


Title: Re: A gay Chancellor?
Post by: Great Again: Roy Moore's Handmaid's Tale on November 17, 2011, 11:43:13 am
It's funny though. Kurt Beck, who had started his career in a SPD/FDP coalition, formed a SPD/Green coalition this year rather than a SPD/CDU one.

And Klaus Wowereit, who had started his career with a SPD/PDS coalition, formed a SPD/CDU coalition rather than a SPD/Green one.

"Right-wing" and "left-wing" doesn't mean squat.