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General Politics => U.S. General Discussion => Topic started by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 12:30:40 pm



Title: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 12:30:40 pm
I have been impressed by some red avatar's ability to make some pretty reasoned or fair arguments on here. Other times I wonder how some people could believe some of things they say on here. But that is just my viewpoint from what I've seen.

But I am genuinely curious what kind of breakdown we have on these forums. How many people are there on here that are the ultimate defenders of their side of the aisle or their current viewpoints? And how many people are there on here that are always persuaded by a well thought out argument?


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Verily on October 17, 2011, 12:34:03 pm
Politically, I won't deny that I am fairly close-minded. Most of you are idiots. <3


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Bacon! 🔥 on October 17, 2011, 12:56:53 pm
Options one through four all apply to me, depending on which issue we're talking about.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: TheDeadFlagBlues on October 17, 2011, 12:59:55 pm
No one is going to change my broadly left-wing value system.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 01:08:38 pm
No one is going to change my broadly left-wing value system.

What if it coincides with your value system and goals, but takes a different approach to reaching said goals?

Extremely skeptical?
or
Genuinely curious?
or
Depends on if the person suggesting a different approach is a D or an R?


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 01:16:05 pm
I have a feeling that a decent number of the people not answering the poll know they are #4, but just don't want to click it.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: opebo on October 17, 2011, 01:22:40 pm
Politics isn't about 'changing ones mind', it is about interests and compromises.  I believe the rich kill and consume the poor every day and have since time immemorial, and that it makes sense from the poors' point of view to try to guillotine the rich.  Now, a compromise between those two positions doesn't require that either side change their opinions.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 17, 2011, 01:26:38 pm
Frankly, people with views that differ even slightly from mine make me almost physically sick. Because how can you go through life being so utterly wrong? Appalling. And how do I know that they're wrong? Because, of course, I am always right, or close enough.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 02:26:29 pm
In particular to those that answered the top 2(but anybody can answer) is there a particular style of argument you tend to prefer? Do you feel more comfortable "letting your guard down" among others that have similar views to your own or is it pretty equal no matter what their views are in relation to your own?


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Trounce-'em Theresa on October 17, 2011, 02:34:31 pm
I feel comfortable letting my guard down around people of several different persuasions, but it's not all equal. For example, I often find it easier to talk to socons than fiscons (though not always) because of greater cultural affinity.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: angus on October 17, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
In particular to those that answered the top 2(but anybody can answer) is there a particular style of argument you tend to prefer? Do you feel more comfortable "letting your guard down" among others that have similar views to your own or is it pretty equal no matter what their views are in relation to your own?

I answered "moderately open minded." 

I like when an expert tells me something.  Like, if I'm arguing about how to pronounce something in chinese with another gringo, and a Chinese person steps in and says, "Well, it's like this..." then I usually shut up.  Or, if I'm saying that this is what you need to do to please a girl, and my friend says, "no, you dork, this is what you should do..." and then an actual female walks in and says, "Well, you should actually do this..." then I shut up and listen.

For policy questions, I also listen to experts, but less.  Because there's not usually a really objectively right answer about those, the way there is when it comes to things like speaking Chinese correctly, or giving a good tumble.  Policy is usually just one person's prediction versus another's.  But usually on policy questions, I listen politely to anyone who disagree with me, and if I start hearing something often enough, then I start to erode over time.  For example, I used to think that we ought not to bail out the banks.  This was back in fall 2008.  Then, a bunch of smart posters like beet and jmfcst and others started ticking off the reasons why we should.  And when I objected to their reasoning they'd offer rebuttals to my rationale.  In the end, I started to be convinced that it was an acceptable thing to do, so long as there were strings attached. 


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 03:25:39 pm
I answered "moderately open minded." 

I like when an expert tells me something.  Like, if I'm arguing about how to pronounce something in chinese with another gringo, and a Chinese person steps in and says, "Well, it's like this..." then I usually shut up.  Or, if I'm saying that this is what you need to do to please a girl, and my friend says, "no, you dork, this is what you should do..." and then an actual female walks in and says, "Well, you should actually do this..." then I shut up and listen.

For policy questions, I also listen to experts, but less.  Because there's not usually a really objectively right answer about those, the way there is when it comes to things like speaking Chinese correctly, or giving a good tumble.  Policy is usually just one person's prediction versus another's.  But usually on policy questions, I listen politely to anyone who disagree with me, and if I start hearing something often enough, then I start to erode over time.  For example, I used to think that we ought not to bail out the banks.  This was back in fall 2008.  Then, a bunch of smart posters like beet and jmfcst and others started ticking off the reasons why we should.  And when I objected to their reasoning they'd offer rebuttals to my rationale.  In the end, I started to be convinced that it was an acceptable thing to do, so long as there were strings attached. 

Good answer. Much appreciated.

I think by "not usually a really objective answer about those" you are meaning to say something like "there is an objective correct answer to policy, but since many issues are so complicated and complex in a lot of cases how can most people tell", right?

Obviously there is a right answer to the question of do tax cuts or government spending better stimulate the economy. The problem is that their are so many things going on in the economy its not an easy thing to prove by either side. Doesn't mean that one isn't the right answer its just that it isn't settled yet.

And realize that 99% of all these questions are pretty much settled in American's minds, but then they are just not asked. If someone advocated doing nothing to a problem and another guy advocated burning all of the dollars in the country, like above there is a better option between the two. And unlike the issue above the American public would probably be 99.9999% on the side of the idea of doing nothing over burning money.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: ZuWo on October 17, 2011, 03:41:56 pm
Options one through four all apply to me, depending on which issue we're talking about.

That's how I view myself, too. I am quite open-minded when it comes to economic issues, for example, but I won't change my mind on social issues such as abortion.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Cincinnatus on October 17, 2011, 03:44:49 pm

Good answer. Much appreciated.

I think by "not usually a really objective answer about those" you are meaning to say something like "there is an objective correct answer to policy, but since many issues are so complicated and complex in a lot of cases how can most people tell", right?

Obviously there is a right answer to the question of do tax cuts or government spending better stimulate the economy. The problem is that their are so many things going on in the economy its not an easy thing to prove by either side. Doesn't mean that one isn't the right answer its just that it isn't settled yet.

And realize that 99% of all these questions are pretty much settled in American's minds, but then they are just not asked. If someone advocated doing nothing to a problem and another guy advocated burning all of the dollars in the country, like above there is a better option between the two. And unlike the issue above the American public would probably be 99.9999% on the side of the idea of doing nothing over burning money.

Fairly certain that's not exactly a topic of complete agreement, even among economists.  Though, I'm sure you point here was to say that tax cuts clearly stimulate the economy better, no?

As for the original OP, I consider myself pretty open-minded.  I like to hear what others have to say, because obviously I can't know every detail or fact.  My opinions and views tend to evolve over time, much like most people IMO.



Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 03:49:09 pm
I think all will agree that in regards to most of these debated topics(outside of true values questions like gay marriage, abortion, etc.) the biggest problem as to why much isn't settled is the absence of a perfect control group. Its not like you can just create an exact replica of the United States to enact a different policy to measure the difference.

With the absence of that the world is just forced to continue to accumulate data differences between countries, periods, actions, etc. and very slowly draw on the differences. Or they are forced to develop proofs within the field to slowly make progress. The amount of time both of those take is much longer than other scientific fields.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 03:54:58 pm
Fairly certain that's not exactly a topic of complete agreement, even among economists.  Though, I'm sure you point here was to say that tax cuts clearly stimulate the economy better, no?

No you misunderstood. Of course there isn't an agreement as to which one is better. But there should be almost universal agreement that one of those is better because there is only 2 possible answers to that question. The problem is that neither side has been able to completely "knock out" the other side with an argument, yet at least. The issue is again that the issue is to complex and complicated to be able to easily deliver that "knock out" argument.

And no that wasn't my point. My point was that one of those had to be better, and that its to complicated and complex for the answer to be settled, yet.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: angus on October 17, 2011, 04:28:55 pm

I think by "not usually a really objective answer about those" you are meaning to say something like "there is an objective correct answer to policy, but since many issues are so complicated and complex in a lot of cases how can most people tell", right?


I'm not so sure about that.  For example, I think you could make some assumptions and show that the Chicago school had it all figured out, but with other assumptions you could show that Keynes was right.

Or, to use a better example, some folks would tell you that the doctrine of Pre-emption makes us safer since it destroys the threat before it has a chance to become significant, while others will argue that it diminishes our national security since it alienates our allies and also makes it harder for individuals (including US citizens) to trust the government.  

Only time will tell which is the right answer, and sometimes not even time tells us the answer.  For example, in another thread, we are still arguing about whether Fat Man and Little Boy saved more lives than they extinguished.  

It also depends upon your goals.  Yes, there's a right answer to the question "Will the wealth be more evenly distributed if everyone donates their savings to a communal fund and then we divide up that fund evenly between all people?"  But that's not the sort of question policymakers generally ask.  They're more likely to ask, "Will the nation's long-term economic security be more secure if our foremost goal is even wealth distribution?"  That question may or may not have a clear-cut answer.

This is why we argue.  


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 04:58:38 pm
I'm not so sure about that.  For example, I think you could make some assumptions and show that the Chicago school had it all figured out, but with other assumptionsyou could show that Keynes was right.

Or, to use a better example, some folks would tell you that the doctrine of Pre-emption makes us safer since it destroys the threat before it has a chance to become significant, while others will argue that it diminishes our national security since it alienates our allies and also makes it harder for individuals (including US citizens) to trust the government.  

Only time will tell which is the right answer, and sometimes not even time tells us the answer.  For example, in another thread, we are still arguing about whether Fat Man and Little Boy saved more lives than they extinguished.  

It also depends upon your goals.  Yes, there's a right answer to the question "Will the wealth be more evenly distributed if everyone donates their savings to a communal fund and then we divide up that fund evenly between all people?"  But that's not the sort of question policymakers generally ask.  They're more likely to ask, "Will the nation's long-term economic security be more secure if our foremost goal is even wealth distribution?"  That question may or may not have a clear-cut answer.
This is why we argue.  

Well I think you are agreeing with my assessment. The situation is so complex that you can't easily definitely prove either of those 2 schools right with few exceptions(the Phillips Curve did get pretty much crushed in the 70s when its supporters argued for 30 years that what was happening was impossible). There are to many factors at play so many times completely different theories can both show the evidence they wanted.

Yeah that would probably take an extremely long time to ever come close to an answer on. I have no clue as to which is the better answer, but in theory 1 of those 2 answers has to be right by first defining "safer" and adding up the total likelihood of a negative event occurring because of the output of each decision. I pity the man that has to try to prove that one though.

1 time historical events are pretty impossible because you will likely never be able to relive anything remotely similar to build more evidence, your just stuck with the evidence from the one event. But a lot of policy questions are based on reoccurring issues not 1 time events(those are more historical questions).

Yes there are differences in goals. I think a better example is to find out if people care more about their standard of living increasing or wealth to be distributed more equitably. Would a person be okay with their own standard of living decreasing if at the same time the wealth/income gap was smaller?


**But you would be surprised how most of our debates are not in what we value, but how we go about addressing it. I don't really think you will find many people in this country that wants the economy, jobs, education, healthcare, funding retirement, public debt, etc. to get worse. So most of the debates are about how to best go about dealing with them.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Democratic Hawk on October 17, 2011, 05:07:54 pm
In my convictions I'm as constant as the Sun though 'events' (9/11 saw me move right on national security and the 'Crash of 2008' leftwards on economics) but more tolerant of differences of opinion these days

Voted Option 3


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 17, 2011, 07:46:13 pm
I've gone through 'evolutions' in my world views - I was a pretty conservative teenager.

I think I'm probably more open-minded than I ever was, but I'm not without firm convictions.

And it generally has nothing to do with being 'convinced' it has to do with experiences.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 17, 2011, 07:52:32 pm
I've gone through 'evolutions' in my world views - I was a pretty conservative teenager.

I think I'm probably more open-minded than I ever was, but I'm not without firm convictions.

And it generally has nothing to do with being 'convinced' it has to do with experiences.

By "conservative" are we referring to by the rest of the worlds standards or by Australia's because besides toilets flushing the opposite way than here, you do kind of have "backwards" parties in the sense that the "Liberal" party in Australia is the "conservative" party elsewhere.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 17, 2011, 07:58:06 pm
I've gone through 'evolutions' in my world views - I was a pretty conservative teenager.

I think I'm probably more open-minded than I ever was, but I'm not without firm convictions.

And it generally has nothing to do with being 'convinced' it has to do with experiences.

By "conservative" are we referring to by the rest of the worlds standards or by Australia's because besides toilets flushing the opposite way than here, you do kind of have "backwards" parties in the sense that the "Liberal" party in Australia is the "conservative" party elsewhere.

Well it should be by the US's standards vs the rest of the world...

But yes, I was certainly much more socially and economically right leaning.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: anvi on October 17, 2011, 08:53:52 pm
I voted moderately open-minded.  I have some core principles about politics that I think have become fairly stable.  But I'm open to arguments as to what are the best ways to fulfill those principles provided that the arguments appeal to evidence and are transparent about their working assumptions.  Of course, every once in a while, a core principle can change too, but it happens less often to me now, which may be yet another depressing consequence of just getting older.  Still, time can, and will, change all things.  Therefore, wisdom dies whenever one stops learning from the world and others.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: freepcrusher on October 17, 2011, 09:21:23 pm
i'm a little open-minded. I could be convinced to vote for someone not of my party it just depends on the circumstances. My political beliefs aren't really beliefs but rather a disdain for the people who vote for the other party.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: fezzyfestoon on October 17, 2011, 09:35:15 pm
Very. I think the most important aspect of a successful political system is being open to new concepts and opposing strategies. The only things I'm 100% decidedly against are those based in faulty reasoning or motivated from a negative place. Other than that, I'd gladly consider any political suggestions. If I don't even bother to consider them, how can I be so sure they're wrong? Without giving proper acknowledgement of different beliefs, there is no understanding of them or a basis for legitimate opposition.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: TJ in Wisco on October 17, 2011, 10:23:45 pm
I voted Option 3, but it depends a lot on the issue at hand. I'm certainly more open-minded when it comes to economic issues than social issues.

In a lot of ways, I'm more open-minded in politics than I am in other areas of life. I was told last year that I was the most stubborn person on the cross-country team. I used to have a notecard hanging above my desk that said "No Compromise" on it in bold, red letters. Sometimes I take it levels that make me my own worst enemy.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Mercenary on October 18, 2011, 07:29:20 am
Someone could sway my views. They have been swayed over the years. Heck even this last year I've shifted quite a bit on my views on economic matters as well as regulatory matters.

Although it has never been one person who has changed my views. It is probably the sum of many discussions combined with events that have changed them. I can think one particular topic where I ended up actually convincing myself of the position I was originally against.

There is at least one issue I've never shifted on and never will though, so I guess you can say I'm "closed minded" there, but considering the issue I am proud to be firm on that. Most any other issue though I've at least considered the opposing position if not actually at one time had it.

All of this has resulted in my views being a mix of some extreme right, extreme left, and a few moderate positions thrown in.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: fezzyfestoon on October 18, 2011, 10:30:09 am
In particular to those that answered the top 2(but anybody can answer) is there a particular style of argument you tend to prefer? Do you feel more comfortable "letting your guard down" among others that have similar views to your own or is it pretty equal no matter what their views are in relation to your own?

Somebody who respects my views and isn't just preaching at me. Most political conversation is based on "you're wrong and need to know it" rather than "here's how I'm looking at it that makes me think differently". People too easily slip into the mentality that them talking about politics is as important as Obama and Boehner talking about politics. Our political discourse in this country is delusional at best. And it's being cultivated to be like that by our "news" outlets.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Wonkish1 on October 18, 2011, 10:40:30 am
In particular to those that answered the top 2(but anybody can answer) is there a particular style of argument you tend to prefer? Do you feel more comfortable "letting your guard down" among others that have similar views to your own or is it pretty equal no matter what their views are in relation to your own?

Somebody who respects my views and isn't just preaching at me. Most political conversation is based on "you're wrong and need to know it" rather than "here's how I'm looking at it that makes me think differently". People too easily slip into the mentality that them talking about politics is as important as Obama and Boehner talking about politics. Our political discourse in this country is delusional at best. And it's being cultivated to be like that by our "news" outlets.

Appreciate the answer!


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on October 18, 2011, 12:35:13 pm
I consider the phrase 'open-minded' to be too overused/misused to have any real meaning.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: John Dibble on October 18, 2011, 01:11:07 pm
I'm very open minded so long as you don't set my bulls**t detector off. After that I'm not that inclined to listen unless you can provide some real facts and evidence.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Hash on October 18, 2011, 06:42:10 pm
A mix of all options, though option 2 in balance. One subjects where my knowledge is limited and my opinion, by consequence, far more shaky or not really well built up; I am certainly quite open-minded and somebody with better knowledge than me (as long as they're not some nutjob) could certainly convince me and change my views. On other stuff where I think my knowledge is pretty solid and my opinion pretty solid, I'm a little open minded but there's little chance my views could change. On political issues which I feel strongly about ("moral issues" or some fiscal issues), then there's little chance of one swaying me over. On the Harper government and the Conservative Party of Canada's record, then I'm totally not open minded and there's nothing which will make me change my views, because Harper is the Antichrist.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: LastVoter on October 18, 2011, 07:28:25 pm
Option 2.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 18, 2011, 07:59:21 pm
because Harper is the Antichrist.

I thought the Antichrist was supposed to be charismatic?


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: The Mikado on October 18, 2011, 11:26:19 pm
I don't change my mind easily, but it has happened.  Michel Foucault caused me to reevaluate many of the things I "knew," for example.  So did Edward Said.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: TJ in Wisco on October 18, 2011, 11:46:56 pm
I've also found over the years that on the rare occasions that my mind is completely changed about something, it is almost always changed by a person I start out agreeing with. When I read or hear something I expect to disagree with, that's exactly what happens. But, on occasion I hear someone I agree with on an issue say something that makes me realize I'm on the wrong side.

It usually doesn't change my mind on the spot. It's more that I realize two different aspects of my belief system are in irreparably conflict and one has to change.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 19, 2011, 12:04:37 am
I voted option 3.  But, it's not so much that I'm not open-minded, it's that I research and have thought through most of my opinions.  Now, I'll listen to anybody and engage in debate and discussion, and when I feel that my opinion is lacking, I'm open to change (marijuana and DADT being 2 big things I've changed, but those were years ago).

So, it's not so much I'm closed minded, but on most issues, I've already looked at both (or several) sides to already come to my opinion.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Torie on October 19, 2011, 02:43:31 pm
I voted moderately open-minded.  I have some core principles about politics that I think have become fairly stable.  But I'm open to arguments as to what are the best ways to fulfill those principles provided that the arguments appeal to evidence and are transparent about their working assumptions.  Of course, every once in a while, a core principle can change too, but it happens less often to me now, which may be yet another depressing consequence of just getting older.  Still, time can, and will, change all things.  Therefore, wisdom dies whenever one stops learning from the world and others.

Exactly.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Insula Dei on October 19, 2011, 06:01:21 pm
In the current political context of course, 'being open minded' and 'open to interesting, new perspectives' really mean 'being willing to eat whatever it is the masters decide to feed you'.

"Oh dear, I now see how unions really kill jobs and make life worse for your average worker."

"Raising taxes on the poor is so completely the right decision, when you think about it."

Case in point: contemporary libertarianism, the TED abomination (though this is not openly rightwing, it serves to foster a thought-toxic climate)

I'm a proud leftwing dogmaticist myself.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: tpfkaw on October 19, 2011, 06:16:34 pm
Well I have had a pretty dramatic shift in views, from latte liberal (kid version) to anarcho-capitalist, and it was pretty much set off by the influence of others and how I've chosen to educate myself.  Then again, I think I've always been pretty sympathetic to libertarian points of view in the abstract, it's just that society always teaches people to think about things in certain ways, or that to oppose Dubya you have to support the Democrats, etc.  You kind of have to be open-minded towards a different point of view if you become a libertarian (unless you're one of those types who get to that position by squaring a circle, e.g. "I'm Republican and gay," "I'm a Republican who smokes pot," etc.).  However, you're probably not going to get me to change my opinion on much by arguing with me on the internet, and while I'm still young I certainly feel like this is pretty much going to be my value-system, so option 4, to be honest.

Things my mind might be changed on are things that are iffy from a libertarian perspective morally (i.e. abortion, voting, how much one should be allowed to take from the state), or on a utilitarian basis (i.e. illegal immigration given the current welfare, education, etc. policy), though of those my position is only really fluid on abortion.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: afleitch on October 20, 2011, 04:23:43 am
I think I'm broadly open minded, but the rational part of my brain kicks in a lot (aspergers woot!) when I focus on alot of issues, especially ones that are considered 'moral'; this leads me to taking very relaxed positions on those issues because social authoritarianism/conservatism is often an irrational response to a social issue. Appeals to tradition and more recently faith don't hold much with me. On economics I'm generally right of centre but they change depending on the state of the economy (as they should) For example about a year ago I would have backed away from big government capital investment programmes during an economic downturn, but it's been done in Scotland, is working, is measured so I now cannot oppose it on a purely ideological basis.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on October 20, 2011, 04:37:02 am
I consider myself very open minded, but not to the point that I'm some sort of political chameleon that will just take on whatever I've been most recently exposed to. I try to look up the vast majority of things before I speak on them, so while I'm open minded, most of my views are based in a relatively solid foundation.

Considering myself to have a very very high respect for empirical evidence, being open-minded is a requirement. I am swayed by concrete and irrefutable evidence that something works or does not work. I have the added bias of wanting things to work that are also fair and just, but I try not to get too subjective with that little "filter" on things, as it were. Appeals to tradition ("this is the way the founders wanted it!"), or on pointless principles ("it's about freedom and keeping the government off our backs!") don't tend to make me move very much.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: fezzyfestoon on October 20, 2011, 09:41:04 am
I consider myself very open minded, but not to the point that I'm some sort of political chameleon that will just take on whatever I've been most recently exposed to. I try to look up the vast majority of things before I speak on them, so while I'm open minded, most of my views are based in a relatively solid foundation.

Considering myself to have a very very high respect for empirical evidence, being open-minded is a requirement. I am swayed by concrete and irrefutable evidence that something works or does not work. I have the added bias of wanting things to work that are also fair and just, but I try not to get too subjective with that little "filter" on things, as it were. Appeals to tradition ("this is the way the founders wanted it!"), or on pointless principles ("it's about freedom and keeping the government off our backs!") don't tend to make me move very much.

Amen


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: The_Texas_Libertarian on October 20, 2011, 04:14:04 pm
Each option depends on the issue; as a person with a background in science I always follow the evidence and not the talking points.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Gustaf on October 25, 2011, 11:49:06 am
Since I don't really have a strong partisan affiliation (nor, really, an ideological one) I'm not sure the concept is applicable to me. There isn't really something for me to be close-minded about the way it is for someone who will reflexively support the Democratic or Republican position.

Because of that, issues for me tend to fall into two categories: those where I have come to an opinion by thinking long and hard about it and those where I don't really care. On the former, I rarely change my mind, on the latter I do quite often. I wouldn't call either of them evidence for me being close-minded or open-minded though.

Since I view most issues as trade-offs I can change my mind on a trade-off without changing my fundamental perspective very much as well.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: Dr. Cynic on October 25, 2011, 01:19:23 pm
I don't change my mind much, but I have evolved my views on economics quite a bit. I'm less protectionist and I've changed my views completely on the death penalty and affirmative action. So, it's happened.


Title: Re: How Open Minded Do You Consider Yourself?
Post by: The_Texas_Libertarian on October 25, 2011, 01:22:33 pm
I don't change my mind much, but I have evolved my views on economics quite a bit. I'm less protectionist and I've changed my views completely on the death penalty and affirmative action. So, it's happened.

The death penalty is one where I also changed my mind completely since becoming politically engaged