Talk Elections

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/lashes+UNESCO+over+Palestinian+vote/5632544/story.html

United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

Education. Science. Why should Palestine get any of that?

I'm pro-Israel, but this is ridiculous.

 Israel and their puppet state.

Pathetic.

ugh.

http://www.jpost.com/VideoArticles/Video/Article.aspx?id=243944

"We are in the process of evaluating our future participation" in UNESCO, [Canadian Foreign Minister John] Baird told reporters, adding that "We are not happy with UNESCO's decision. We are working to determine what our response will be."

I just...what in God's name is this sh**t?

The full vote:

There were 107 “yes” votes, 14 “no” votes, 52 abstentions and there were also 21 Member States absent:

Yes: Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Burkina Faso, Cambodia, Chad, Chile, China, Congo, Costa Rica, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Lebanon, Lesotho, Libya, Luxembourg, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Qatar, Russian Federation, Sant Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Slovenia, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syrian Arab Republic, Tunisia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zimbabwe.

No: Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, Germany, Israel, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Palau, Panama, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Sweden, United States of America, Vanuatu.

Abstentions: Albania, Andorra, Bahamas, Barbados, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Burundi, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Colombia, Cook Islands, Côte d’Ivoire, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Fiji, Georgia, Haiti, Hungary, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Kiribati, Latvia, Liberia, Mexico, Monaco, Montenegro, Nauru, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Switzerland, Thailand, Macedonia, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Zambia.

Absent: Antigua and Barbuda, Central African Republic, Comoros, Dominica, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Madagascar, Maldives, Marshall Islands, Confederated States of Micronesia, Mongolia, Niue, Sao Tome and Principe, Sierra Leone, South Sudan, Swaziland, Tajikistan, Timor-Leste, Turkmenistan.

http://humanprovince.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/unesco-palestine

This is funny:

Germany: No
Austria: Yes
Switzerland: Abstain

:P

It is rather nonsense.

I just realized that if this means less US style Education in the world, then that' be good

It does seem a little silly. Isn't an automatic thingy though?

Yes, but if the US announcement was that "we have to comply with the law which prohibits funding UN bodies which admit Palestine" rather than "we believe Palestine should negotiate with Israel to form a state instead of unilaterally going to the UN", then the context would have been different. The former could be a subtle sign the US is starting to soften its position. The latter shows nothing has changed. And the latter has been true.

Well, Switzerland makes sense. After all, they're neutral. :P

I hear the Palestinians are going to go to the World Health Organization next.....Would they really defund THAT?

That sort of language is seriously not helpful.

If so, this would open up whole new possibilites. Imagine there's an outbreak of bird flu during election year 2012 and the WHO needs additional money. So Obama goes to Congress asking for a repeal of that law which recquiers the cutting of funding to Palestine-recognizing international organization. As a result, Obama gets attacked by the Tea Party and the Republicans for being anti-Israel.

And we are not ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Neutrality) :P

I feel ashamed to be an American for having to explain this decision on behalf of my country.

Yeah, actually I doubt that.

That's a faux neutrality, because Austria is part of the Common Security and Defence Policy of the EU.

In case of an Russian attack on the Baltic countries, Austria surely would support the latter, wouldn't it?

Indeed. There's no need for a small and politically insignifcant country like Switzerland to meddle too much in explosive international affairs.

That will be less likely to be approved. People actually care about seeing that funded.

Given the margin at UNESCO, even if a few states defect, chances are, if they ask for it, they will be admitted into any UN organization, where decisions are to be taken by simple majority.

BTW, Mexican abstension is extremely controversial down here - Mexican Senate is raising huge stink about it. There is no way Mexico is voting against Palestinian membership of anything - even to stick w/ abstension is not going to be very simple.

You live in Mexico?

Looks like someone's been reading the Chinese classics:

Israel has retaliated for the UNESCO recognition by accelerating settlement construction within their biblical homeland of east Jerusalem and the West Bank 

me thinks it is time for Israel to simply annex Samaria and Judea and let the chips fall where they may

Well, that would certainly shake things up. But seriously, if that happened I would expect actually serious diplomatic actions (withdrawal of ambassadors, embargoes) against Israel.   

It's sad that jmfcst's comment either leads to Israel ceasing to exist as a Jewish state, or an Apartheid regime, or a Final Solution to a problem of Six Million untermenschen (maybe this time round there will be less emphasis on concentrating them in camps and more on giving them quick showers).

EDIT: Another option would be for the Israeli government to require all Jews to wear yellow stars in public to receive special privileges not available to the majority Arabs in Israel.

I must remind again that this Palestinian state won't accept Palestinian refugees (even those living INSIDE the Palestinian state) and it wants to be a "pure" (Arab Muslim only) state.  A decent chunk of the state isn't under the control of the people proclaiming this new state and the people that do rule that chunk are against this entire charade.  ALL of the people voting against it at the UN want there to be a Palestinian state, even the US and Israel, but not this back door way.  It needs to be done the right way, with everybody involved sitting down at the table and hammering something out.  This is simply a political move used to reinforce to the "believers" that Israel and the US (always conveniently ignoring everybody else that is saying "no" too) are always wrong and the fun loving Palestinians just want to live in their own state in peace.

Now pick the part you think you might be able to get me on and ignore the rest.  May I suggest the last line?  Those first few are (apparently) really hard to spin.

Why should the Palestinian State accept refugees? Seems inconsistent when you don't like the Mexicans to move into the US yourself.

PALESTINIAN refugees. 

And when have I ever said I don't like Mexicans moving into the US?

I don't know, you seem the anti-immigration sort of guy.

And as the refugees mainly used to live in Israel, I'm hardpressed to see how they are anything but Israeli refugees.

Even the ones IN Palestinian territory?

Asking for formal recognition just like any other country at the U.N. is not ''back door''.

Somalia, Sudan, and Haiti have official recognition at the U.N. Being a country without problems isn't a prerequisite that any other country is held to, nor is the permission of Israel needed for any other country.

Palestine deserves the same, to deny them that is to keep them in a drastically inferior position where Israel can continue to build illegal settlements on Palestinian land, stalling for more time to simply keep building more and more illegal settlements.

I almost agree with you here- I really like the idea, but I'm not sure how Palestine could be a viable state. It'd have more exclaves than a meditatized German principality.

At least 2/3 of the above statement is an outright lie (whether deliberate or not I don't know). Palestinian refugees residing in the West Bank and Gaza are as "accepted" as anyone else there, and nobody has ever seriously suggested they won't be citizens of the new state. Nor is the Palestinian Authority (as distinct from Hamas or from certain individuals) proposing a purely Muslim state (nor a purely Arab: nobody is talking of getting rid of, say, Samaritans).

Until and unless you disavow the above statement, I will not take any of your statements about the Middle East seriously.

Ok, they aren't saying it will be Arab Muslim only, they just don't want da Joos.  I suppose that's a touch better.  That was my mistake.

Before quoting some no-name ambassador in an obscure paper, who is (if he is quoted right) obviously trying to play on Lebanese internal politics, you might have checked the biography of this refugee from Safed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas

I am sure, his citizenship is also in question.

Bye

later

It's rather funny how so many countries who recognize Palestine (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Palestine_recognitions_only.png) abstained from the vote and in the case of the Czech Republic even voted no.

You do know how hypocritical and ridiculous an American sounds when he justifies possession of a territory based on ancient history?

Most of your other points have been addressed, so I'll limit myself to the underlined part: you really think that Israel wants an independent Palestinian state?

Yes, a peaceful one.

And one that is very small, fragmented and totally under the control of Israel.

Anyone else catch the Daily Show on Thursday? :P

Yes, it was funny. Especially the part in Gabon.  I can't believe they (Comedy Central, being the stingy Jews that they are) actually sent him there.

I don't think I've ever seen an episode without a guest before. I'm glad they did a piece on this. :]

I've been watching since before Stewart took over and I don't think I've seen it either...but I've missed episodes and tend to forget things.

I'd be happy to see them do this more often when they don't have an interesting guest. Going from Grover Norquist one day to Will Ferrell the next = ugh.

That Norquist interview was one with several...uhh... uncomfortable moments.  I like those...usually...sometimes I just feel bad for everybody involved.