|
Title: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (rejected) Post by: bgwah on November 10, 2011, 01:20:30 AM Quote The Recall of Senators Amendment. Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amending to include: 8: If 30% of a Senator's constituency signs a petition to recall their Senator(s) then the Secretary of Federal Elections shall open a voting booth for the recall election exactly two weeks after the petition obtains the needed amount of signatures. The recall elections shall follow the same procedures as the the general elections for each class of Senators. If the Secretary of Federal elections declares a recall election is to be held, any eligible citizen may declare their intention to be on the ballot up to 48 hours before the booth is open. Should the Senator(s) be recalled, the certified winner(s) of the election may swear in to take their seat in the senate immediately. Sponsor: Jbrase Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Marokai Backbeat on November 10, 2011, 01:23:53 AM I feel like a recall should only be used in extreme situations, and 30% is an incredibly low bar to initiating a recall.
In most regions we're talking about a handful of people, really. I don't really love the idea of a handful of stubborn and highly motivated citizens basically initiating recall after recall. If a Senator needs to be recalled, it should be for good reason and only done if absolutely necessary. A much higher bar, in that case, should be used. 60% or so, let's say. Then again, I'm not really sure we need recall mechanisms in place to begin with, though I admire the brainstorming. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 10, 2011, 01:25:11 AM I would also need a higher threshold as well, in order to support it.
Beyond that, I think it is a great idea. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: bgwah on November 10, 2011, 01:27:48 AM Also keep in mind the nature of STV elections... You only need 15-20% to get elected. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of a smaller party being removed via recall after it wins an STV seat fair and square.
I will not consider supporting this bill unless it only applies to regional seats. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Marokai Backbeat on November 10, 2011, 01:36:57 AM I propose an amendment (changes in bold):
Quote The Recall of Senators Amendment. Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amending to include: 8: After thirty days of a Class A Senator holding office, if 60% of the Class A Senator's constituency signs a petition to recall their Senator then the Secretary of Federal Elections shall open a voting booth for the recall election exactly two weeks after the petition obtains the needed amount of signatures. The recall elections shall follow the same procedures as the the general elections for each class of Senators. If the Secretary of Federal elections declares a recall election is to be held, any eligible citizen may declare their intention to be on the ballot up to 48 hours before the booth is open. Should the Senator be recalled, the certified winner of the election may swear in to take their seat in the senate immediately. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: bgwah on November 10, 2011, 01:46:09 AM Does the sponsor accept the amendment as friendly?
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Napoleon on November 10, 2011, 02:26:29 AM Looking forward to another amendment failure.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Mopsus on November 10, 2011, 10:36:28 AM 60% seems too high to me. If a majority of a Senator's constituents want him recalled, it seems fair to me to allow them to have their special election, regardless of how large that majority is. Why not set the threshold at that?
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on November 10, 2011, 02:26:24 PM Bgwah's concern about possible unfariness of smaller parties in at-large elections is valid.
I'd support this amendment, at least to see how it's working on regional level first. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on November 10, 2011, 06:26:15 PM This bill is insane.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: CatoMinor on November 12, 2011, 12:09:16 PM I'd support raising the percentage a tad bit higher if you all feel its too low, but 60% seems too high. I do not accept as friendly.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Mopsus on November 12, 2011, 05:00:18 PM I'd support raising the percentage a tad bit higher if you all feel its too low, but 60% seems too high. I do not accept as friendly. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: bgwah on November 12, 2011, 06:14:58 PM We are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain.
Quote The Recall of Senators Amendment. [/quote]Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amending to include: 8: After thirty days of a Class A Senator holding office, if 60% of the Class A Senator's constituency signs a petition to recall their Senator then the Secretary of Federal Elections shall open a voting booth for the recall election exactly two weeks after the petition obtains the needed amount of signatures. The recall elections shall follow the same procedures as the the general elections for each class of Senators. If the Secretary of Federal elections declares a recall election is to be held, any eligible citizen may declare their intention to be on the ballot up to 48 hours before the booth is open. Should the Senator be recalled, the certified winner of the election may swear in to take their seat in the senate immediately. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: Mopsus on November 12, 2011, 06:55:39 PM Nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: Marokai Backbeat on November 12, 2011, 07:05:38 PM Aye.
Not sure I can really vote for a final version that's lower than that. As Bgwah and Kalwejt said, there's an STV/small parties problem with allowing recalls. I can't think of any other way to protect against that than this, especially since recalling a Senator should only be done in extraordinarily circumstances. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: Napoleon on November 12, 2011, 08:30:26 PM Nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on November 12, 2011, 08:48:27 PM Nay
With 60% signing they want a Senator out, we may just very well declare seat vacant. This is ridiculously high. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: bgwah on November 12, 2011, 09:24:50 PM aye
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 12, 2011, 10:19:39 PM Aye
The chance of risking an attempted power grab is too great to go much lower. 50 would be my abolute last line in the sand if this amendment fails. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: CatoMinor on November 13, 2011, 02:06:03 AM nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on November 14, 2011, 01:23:56 AM Nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on November 14, 2011, 01:40:49 PM Aye
It' really scary to add a provision that if someone is dissatisfied with a senator, 30% of them can simple vote to recall them. 50% is as low as I can go. 60% is more ideal. 30% is just crazy. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) Post by: bgwah on November 15, 2011, 12:53:48 AM With 4 ayes and 5 nays, the amendment has failed. Debate resumes.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Mopsus on November 15, 2011, 02:03:11 PM Quote from: The Recall of Senators Amendment Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amending to include: 8: After 30 days of a Class A Senator holding office, if 50% of the Class A Senator's constituency signs a petition to recall their Senator then the Secretary of Federal Elections shall open a voting booth for the recall election exactly two weeks after the petition obtains the needed amount of signatures. The recall elections shall follow the same procedures as the the general elections for each class of Senators. If the Secretary of Federal elections declares a recall election is to be held, any eligible citizen may declare their intention to be on the ballot up to 48 hours before the booth is open. Should the Senator be recalled, the certified winner of the election may swear in to take their seat in the Senate immediately. I offer the following amendment. All I did was take Marokai's amendment and reduce the petition requirement from 60% of a Senator's constituents to 50%. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on November 15, 2011, 02:07:17 PM When we say constituents, what do we mean by that? People who voted for that candidate? Or 50% of the region's total population?
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Mopsus on November 15, 2011, 02:09:35 PM When we say constituents, what do we mean by that? People who voted for that candidate? Or 50% of the region's total population? Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on November 15, 2011, 02:24:01 PM When we say constituents, what do we mean by that? People who voted for that candidate? Or 50% of the region's total population? I'll think about it. 50 percent would be as low as I could go. My only concern left with 50% is a candidate from one party could win by small margin in a region where they weren't the favorite, only to have the majority party vote them out 30 days later after being able to get the numbers. If I had my way, I'd make it 2/3s like everything else to override something. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (debating) Post by: bgwah on November 16, 2011, 10:57:07 PM We are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain.
Quote from: The Recall of Senators Amendment Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amending to include: 8: After 30 days of a Class A Senator holding office, if 50% of the Class A Senator's constituency signs a petition to recall their Senator then the Secretary of Federal Elections shall open a voting booth for the recall election exactly two weeks after the petition obtains the needed amount of signatures. The recall elections shall follow the same procedures as the the general elections for each class of Senators. If the Secretary of Federal elections declares a recall election is to be held, any eligible citizen may declare their intention to be on the ballot up to 48 hours before the booth is open. Should the Senator be recalled, the certified winner of the election may swear in to take their seat in the Senate immediately. Nay Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (amendment at vote) Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on November 17, 2011, 05:39:22 AM Aye
I still think it's too high level, but obviously there's no support for lower. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (amendment at vote) Post by: Mopsus on November 17, 2011, 01:25:28 PM Aye
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (amendment at vote) Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 17, 2011, 05:22:18 PM Aye
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (amendment at vote) Post by: Napoleon on November 17, 2011, 06:49:17 PM Nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (amendment at vote) Post by: Marokai Backbeat on November 17, 2011, 07:14:55 PM Nay. I'm just not comfortable allowing something like this with just half the population signing onto it. With small parties or close elections, we could be potentially allowing instant recalls at no fault of the Senator himself. Byway said in the initiative debate "signatures are easier to get in Atlasia." He's right. Sorry guys.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (amendment at vote) Post by: bgwah on November 21, 2011, 11:28:33 PM With 3 ayes and 3 nays, the amendment has failed.
I am bringing this to a final vote. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain. Quote The Recall of Senators Amendment. Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amending to include: 8: If 30% of a Senator's constituency signs a petition to recall their Senator(s) then the Secretary of Federal Elections shall open a voting booth for the recall election exactly two weeks after the petition obtains the needed amount of signatures. The recall elections shall follow the same procedures as the the general elections for each class of Senators. If the Secretary of Federal elections declares a recall election is to be held, any eligible citizen may declare their intention to be on the ballot up to 48 hours before the booth is open. Should the Senator(s) be recalled, the certified winner(s) of the election may swear in to take their seat in the senate immediately. NAY. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 22, 2011, 12:12:25 AM Nay
These levels and terms are unacceptable. Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: Napoleon on November 22, 2011, 05:55:02 AM Nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: Marokai Backbeat on November 22, 2011, 07:07:10 AM Nay.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on November 22, 2011, 08:23:09 AM Aye
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: Mopsus on November 22, 2011, 11:58:04 AM Nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on November 22, 2011, 01:43:20 PM Nay
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on November 22, 2011, 02:21:14 PM Nay.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: bgwah on November 24, 2011, 03:13:48 AM This has enough votes to fail. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.
Title: Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (at final vote) Post by: bgwah on November 25, 2011, 04:56:17 AM With 1 aye and 7 nays, this has been rejected.
|