Talk Elections

General Politics => Individual Politics => Topic started by: Phony Moderate on December 09, 2011, 06:53:17 PM



Title: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Phony Moderate on December 09, 2011, 06:53:17 PM
She has, of course, been in the news a lot recently, so....


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on December 09, 2011, 06:57:10 PM
Neither. She isn't an HP, I think she's competent and means well enough....but she's disappointed me too often to be called FF either.

Voted HP because I don't approve of the current federal government.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 09, 2011, 07:19:48 PM
Mostly FF.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 09, 2011, 07:34:43 PM
HP

Opportunist who's mainly interested in staying Chancellor and who's reversing her political positions as it suits her needs.

So, basically the German version of Mitt Romney, albeit with less sex appeal. :P


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Snowstalker Mk. II on December 09, 2011, 10:11:21 PM
inb4 SPD landslide


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 10, 2011, 06:13:37 AM
HP. Stubborn idiot who's putting the entire Europe (his own country comprised) in danger just to please her public opinion.

The true responsible for the Euro debt crisis.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on December 10, 2011, 06:16:19 AM
HP. Stubborn idiot who's putting the entire Europe (his own country comprised) in danger just to please her public opinion.

The true responsible for the Euro debt crisis.

Yeah. Obviously not the countries in massive debt and little interest in cleaning up. That'd be too easy!


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: ZuWo on December 10, 2011, 06:21:38 AM
The German version of Mitt Romney. What are her convictions? What does she stand for?


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: © tweed on December 10, 2011, 06:43:59 AM
Berlusconi had it right


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 10, 2011, 06:48:36 AM
HP. Stubborn idiot who's putting the entire Europe (his own country comprised) in danger just to please her public opinion.

The true responsible for the Euro debt crisis.

Yeah. Obviously not the countries in massive debt and little interest in cleaning up. That'd be too easy!

Massive debt ? The only country which qualifies as "massively indebted" is Greece, all the others managed to pay off their debts without problems before the crisis started. So yeah, Grece's debt was the spark which caused the explosion. BTW, I'd like to remind you that "a country" isn't collectively responsible for its debt. The government is, and, in this case, Caramanlis' right-wing government.

Anyways, the crisis didn't become what it is now because of Greece. It has become what it is because of the governments' poor reaction to the Greek crisis. It would have been sufficient to establish Euro-bonds, with the possibility for countries to effectively collectivize Greece's debt, and the crisis would have been solved from the beginning. You just can't have a common money and not have financial solidarity among countries, it just can't work. Of course, once they saw the pathetic half-assed measures Merkozy have put forward, the markets realized that after all, all the EU countries were at risk. Of course : they were left to their own devices regarding debt, but couldn't use monetary tools to fight against it because the Euro was managed by the ECB ! So they began speculating against Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy... France is the next on the list, and, in the end, Germany's turn will come too. The result is what we have now : the whole Eurozone is in danger.

Let's also talk about the way Merkel&co shoved austerity plans through these countries' throat. Is there in the world a more mind-numbingly retarded measure to fight against deficits ? Those countries are dismantling their whole welfare states, leading to mass poverty. We're turning them into third-world countries to "punish" them for their deficits ! You might not care about people dying from starvation and these kind of things, but do I have to remind you that poverty means recession ? And that recession means less tax revenues, and thus, more deficit ? Yeah, that's it : austerity plans are just the way to raise deficits. What will we do once deficits will have risen ? New austerity plans ! Austerity ! Austerity ! Austerity ! Until the countries will be reduced to the stone age. After all, that's just the eventual goal of all neoliberals, isn't it ?

So yeah, sorry if I don't buy into the moronic idea that "evil southern countries deserve it because they are BAD". I'm just sad you fall so easily into such a ridiculous view, and I'm sure you genuinely think so. After all, you're not the only one : the neoliberal dogma has dominated Europe for over 30 years now. But I'm fairly confident that the pack of lies, caricatures, populism and primary insticts it carries will be eventually exposed for what it is.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on December 10, 2011, 06:58:12 AM
So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. ;)


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Tender Branson on December 10, 2011, 07:04:53 AM
So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. ;)

And a few Dutch, Luxembourg and Finnish people as well. Otherwise we are seen as Nazis ...


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on December 10, 2011, 07:06:16 AM
So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. ;)

And a few Dutch, Luxembourg and Finnish people as well. Otherwise we are seen as Nazis ...

Oh yes. Quite right.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 10, 2011, 07:13:54 AM
So let's just stop the whole Euro thing and let every country fend for themselves. It's unfortunate that this project was started at all.

Germany has been one of the main beneficiaries of the common money, though.


Quote
Either that, or actually put Germans or Austrians in charge of finances. ;)

No, put an European government elected by all Europeans. This is the only fair and sound way for Europe to remain a world power and not fall into utter irrelevancy.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on December 10, 2011, 07:32:54 AM
Quote
Germany has been one of the main beneficiaries of the common money, though.

To an extent. The Euro, more accurately, has turned the Eurozone into a place of fair competition. At the same time, it's clear that Germany has won the competition, being the most efficient and producing the highest quality.

That said, yes, in practice, the Euro has helped Germany's exports by making them relatively cheaper. But anyone who signed onto the Euro had to accept that they were entering this competition. That includes Greece and Italy, wouldn't you agree?

And apparently these countries are not capable of competing with Germany, Austria and the Netherlands. The Euro isn't in the interest of the entire Euro zone. Perhaps stopping this whole nonsense would be best?

Quote
No, put an European government elected by all Europeans. This is the only fair and sound way for Europe to remain a world power and not fall into utter irrelevancy.

This is where I draw the line. I'm not a "European citizen". Considering that Germany is the one giving everyone else all the money, I will only accept German terms. If that's unacceptable to others, then that's fine as well. But I will never allow our sovereignty to be taken over by people less responsible than we. :)


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 10, 2011, 07:44:50 AM
Quote
Germany has been one of the main beneficiaries of the common money, though.

To an extent. The Euro, more accurately, has turned the Eurozone into a place of fair competition. At the same time, it's clear that Germany has won the competition, being the most efficient and producing the highest quality.

That said, yes, in practice, the Euro has helped Germany's exports by making them relatively cheaper. But anyone who signed onto the Euro had to accept that they were entering this competition. That includes Greece and Italy, wouldn't you agree?

And apparently these countries are not capable of competing with Germany, Austria and the Netherlands. The Euro isn't in the interest of the entire Euro zone. Perhaps stopping this whole nonsense would be best?

Quote
No, put an European government elected by all Europeans. This is the only fair and sound way for Europe to remain a world power and not fall into utter irrelevancy.

This is where I draw the line. I'm not a "European citizen". Considering that Germany is the one giving everyone else all the money, I will only accept German terms. If that's unacceptable to others, then that's fine as well. But I will never allow our sovereignty to be taken over by people less responsible than we. :)


That is exactly the point. The Euro was intended to favor the competitivity of the whole Europe in the global economy, not to ensure competition within the zone. The fact national egoism has prevailed over feelings of solidarity is not only unfortunate. It will eventually hurt everybody, Germany comprised. By 2050, a country representing less than 1% of the world population, with horrible demographics an an irrelevant money will be utterly screwed. European federalism is not only an opportunity to develop democracy and develop feelings of community, it's also the only way to survive in the world economy.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on December 10, 2011, 07:49:53 AM
I suppose we've come to a point where there are just principal disagreements. I'm not concerned with the individual competitivity of strong European nations.

But then I suppose there's a reason you wouldn't give me a foreign affairs or economic role in your fantasy government ;)


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 10, 2011, 07:53:51 AM
I suppose we've come to a point where there are just principal disagreements. I'm not concerned with the individual competitivity of strong European nations.

But then I suppose there's a reason you wouldn't give me a foreign affairs or economic role in your fantasy government ;)

Indeed. Let's take back this discussion 30 or 40 years from today and see which of us was right. ;)


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: You kip if you want to... on May 10, 2012, 07:25:06 PM
BUMP, due to the news cycle and I didn't wanna start a new one.

HP, human filth.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 10, 2012, 07:38:12 PM
No change since December, and I wish her the best of political luck.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on May 10, 2012, 07:50:28 PM
FF.

-hides-


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Frodo on May 10, 2012, 07:56:45 PM
Apart from her impressive cleavage -HP.  The euro crisis pretty much sealed my opinion of her leadership. 


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: LastVoter on May 10, 2012, 09:53:45 PM
Terrible. EU should at least have equalization payments like provinces of Canada do if they want to continue of having Germany selling sh**t to southern  countries.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on May 10, 2012, 10:46:07 PM
Truly awful.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: LiberalJunkie on May 10, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
Just.....No. HP


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Beet on May 10, 2012, 10:52:28 PM
Between a rock and a hard place, obviously. I wish her the best in her management of the euro crisis, really, because although I disagree in the strongest possible terms with the focus on austerity, she has good intentions and is at least on the right side of things. On domestic affairs I don't wish her the best, as I believe Germany would be better off with a more explicitly pro-worker, pro-wage and pro-growth government, but that is up to Germans to decide.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on May 11, 2012, 03:26:17 AM
Still one of the best European leaders, IMO. Unchanged.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Tender Branson on May 11, 2012, 04:05:15 AM
Still one of the best European leaders, IMO. Unchanged.

BTW, Franzl: How would you vote in NRW on Sunday ? I really can't stand this Röttgen guy.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on May 11, 2012, 04:08:31 AM
Still one of the best European leaders, IMO. Unchanged.

BTW, Franzl: How would you vote in NRW on Sunday ? I really can't stand this Röttgen guy.

Either FDP, Linke or Pirates. Sound weird? ;)

FDP or Linke, whoever seems to be closest to 5%. Best and only way to kill Kraft's red-green. I'm in an obstructionist mood in NRW.

If I decided to take things seriously and voted my political conscience: Pirates


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Tender Branson on May 11, 2012, 04:15:47 AM
Still one of the best European leaders, IMO. Unchanged.

BTW, Franzl: How would you vote in NRW on Sunday ? I really can't stand this Röttgen guy.

Either FDP, Linke or Pirates. Sound weird? ;)

FDP or Linke, whoever seems to be closest to 5%. Best and only way to kill Kraft's red-green. I'm in an obstructionist mood in NRW.

If I decided to take things seriously and voted my political conscience: Pirates

Then you must vote Linke. They are closest to 5% (but I guess in the end will get less than that). The FDP should be in, Barney Lindner should follow Kubicki's example. The Pirates might actually not get that much support in NRW, because of their utopic free of charge public transport proposal. Those voters might stay with the SPD and Greens instead, with the Pirates topping out at 7%.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Franzl on May 11, 2012, 04:34:05 AM
Well, zum Glück, I'm in Hessen and not NRW.... ;)


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Supersonic on May 11, 2012, 06:06:18 AM
No strong opinion either way. Very narrowly FF.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on May 11, 2012, 06:24:41 AM
Exceedingly low.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on May 11, 2012, 08:25:38 AM
A truly despicable person, and one of the leaders of modern times who has done the most harm to the European people.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: k-onmmunist on May 11, 2012, 08:58:25 AM
Neoliberal, and thus automatic HP.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: All Along The Watchtower on May 11, 2012, 09:58:26 AM
HP.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: You kip if you want to... on May 14, 2012, 04:38:11 PM
Supplementary question:

Angela Merkel or Margaret Thatcher?


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on May 14, 2012, 04:45:49 PM
Supplementary question:

Angela Merkel or Margaret Thatcher?

Who was the worst ? We'll see in a decade.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: politicus on May 14, 2012, 05:41:20 PM
Ill choose Merkel over Thacher any day. Dont make her worse, than she is.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: k-onmmunist on May 14, 2012, 07:21:01 PM
Ill choose Merkel over Thacher any day. Dont make her worse, than she is.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 14, 2012, 07:25:15 PM
Supplementary question:

Angela Merkel or Margaret Thatcher?

Thatcher, but I like both a lot.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: fezzyfestoon on May 14, 2012, 11:18:46 PM
No me gusta


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: Leftbehind on May 15, 2012, 04:17:05 PM
HP, but I doubt she'll have people cheering at her death like Thatcher will.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on May 15, 2012, 04:26:30 PM
Come on, don't be so harsh to Angela now. She just lost her puppet in Paris.


Title: Re: Opinion of Angela Merkel
Post by: © tweed on May 15, 2012, 07:08:17 PM
surprised to see her even poll 16/47 here