Talk Elections

Because I couldn't find a thread for Germany, here's a new one.  Presidential or parliamentary.  And go

Pretty much CDU/CSU until 2005, then switch to FDP.

SPD traditionally (only non-right party), the Greens or Die Linke since the 90s.

KPD during Weimar, SPD after the war until the 1980s, Green until 2010, Green/Piraten swing voter since then.

The people don't really vote for President, FTR.

SPD all the way ;)

Why would a right-winger who supported SPD in 1998 not support them again in 2002 ?

Well the reason I see myself supporting the SDP in '98 is not only because of the party's 3rd way centrism and moderation but also as a "it's time to retire Kohl" vote. His government had been in power too long and Germany needed some fresh air, by 2002 there was no longer any such need.     

"Let's have left-wingers win elections once every 30 years, just for fun's sake. But only for one term, otherwise they might be tempted to enact left-wing policies." ;)

Yeah that actually sums it up pretty well.

Actually yeah, now you've got it! ;)

I feel the same way about right-wingers, so no worries. ;)

Haha, anything to prevent the silent landslide ;)

Me too. That's why I'm growing concerned about Sweden. :P

More or less this. Hoever, I could imagine myself voting Green or Left in 2002...

Why, what's going on in Sweden?

The left coalition has lost their second election in a row and is still down in the polls. The Social Democrats' leader proved to be an epic fail and resigned recently, leaving the party which once never got below 40% with around 20% of support.

Ah.  Well sucks to be a lefty up there!

1867-1919: Free Conservative
1919-1933: German National People's
1949-1953: Christian Democratic
1953-1965: Deutsche Rechtspartei
1965-1990: National Democratic (as protest because there are no normal right in Germany)
1990-now: Republicans

No, I think we all know who you would have voted for in the 1930s...

1871: Deutsche Fortschrittspartei
1874: Deutsche Fortschrittspartei
1877: Deutsche Fortschrittspartei or Liberale Vereinigung
1878: Deutsche Fortschrittspartei or Liberale Vereinigung
1881: Deutsche Fortschrittspartei or Liberale Vereinigung
1884: Deutsche Freisinnige Partei
1887: Deutsche Freisinnige Partei
1890: Deutsche Freisinnige Partei
1893: Freisinnige Volkspartei
1898: Freisinnige Volkspartei
1903: Freisinnige Volkspartei
1907: Freisinnige Volkspartei
1912: Fortschrittliche Volkspartei
1919: Deutsche Demokratische Partei
1920: Deutsche Demokratische Partei
May 1924: Deutsche Demokratische Partei
Dec 1924: Deutsche Demokratische Partei
1925 President: Willy Hellpach round 1, Wilhelm Marx round 2
Referendum 1926: Abstain.
1928: Deutsche Demokratische Partei
Referendum 1928: Yes.
Referendum 1929: Yes.
1930: Reichspartei des deutschen Mittelstandes
1932 President: Theodor Duesterberg round 1 (better the evil you don't know in this case...), Paul von Hindenberg round 2
July 1932: Reichspartei des deutschen Mittelstandes
November 1932: Reichspartei des deutschen Mittelstandes
March 1933: Deutsche Staatspartei or Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands with hindsight
November 1933: spoil ballot
Referendum 1933: No. (protest vote)
East German election 1946: Liberal-Demokratische Partei Deutschlands
1949: Freie Demokratische Partei
1953: Freie Demokratische Partei
1957: Freie Demokratische Partei
1961: Freie Demokratische Partei
1965: Freie Demokratische Partei
1969: Christlich-Soziale Union in Bayern (you are able to vote for them in other parts of Germany, right?)
1972: Christlich-Soziale Union in Bayern
1976: Christlich-Soziale Union in Bayern
1979 European: Christlich-Soziale Union in Bayern
1980: Freie Demokratische Partei
1983: Freie Demokratische Partei
1984 European: Christlich-Soziale Union in Bayern
1987: Freie Demokratische Partei
1989 European: Die Republikaner
1990 East Germany: Deutsche Soziale Union
1990: Freie Demokratische Partei
1994 European: Die Republikaner
1994: Freie Demokratische Partei
1998: Freie Demokratische Partei
1999 European: Die Republikaner
2002: Freie Demokratische Partei
2004 European: Die Republikaner
2005: Freie Demokratische Partei
2009 European: Die Republikaner
2009: Freie Demokratische Partei

Not.  Nice.  :P

Plus there weren't elections then in the sense that there was only one name on the ballot....

So I guess up till Hitler, essentially Bismarck-esque parties?

Uh no, they were the anti-Bismarck liberals.  The pro-Bismarck "liberals" were the Nationalliberalen.

Sorry, my post-Bismarck to WW2 knowledge about German politics is limited, and the rest is shaky at best.

That's very funny :D  I think you know not so much about Germany.

The Deutsche Fortschrittspartei, Deutsche Freisinnige Partei or the Deutsche Demokratische Partei were left-liberal Party and build in every election an alliance with the SPD. I really can't imagine that an libertarian like you vote for them. You would vote for the Nationalliberale. They were very Conservative in Economical things and  in the center in social issues.

You can only vote for the CSU in Bavaria. Outside you must vote for the CDU.

A swing-voter between FDP and Die Republikaner is quite impossible. They have nearly nothing in common. Die Republikaner are (moderate) fascists and would have a Economical Score -2.0 and Social +7,5. This is quite the opposite to yours ;-)

Swedish Cheese's philosophy can more accurately be summed up as: "Never support left-wingers, but steal many of their crown jewel policies, and proceed to vote for centrists or right-wingers who would've, way back when, almost certainly not implemented the programs I now praise and take for granted."


It's done for a very specific reason. He has an inferiority complex when it comes to other posters' knowledge of foreign politics, and so he (along with someone else) pretends to have more interest and knowledge about foreign affairs than he actually does, because he's convinced that other people are posturing in the same way he now is.

Never claimed to, but I think you'd be surprised.


Well, Eugen Richter, their party leader, at least was quite libertarian, and was very much against Bismarck's welfare state, against protectionism, etc.  "Left-liberal" did not have the same meaning back then as it does now, it referred to whether they thought they should ally with the conservatives against the socialists (right-liberals) or whether they should try to be a unique movement fighting a "two-front war" against both (left-liberals).


"Conservative in economical issues" meant, at the time, supporting protectionism and Bismarck's welfare state, and "in the center on social issues" meant supporting and introducing extremist anti-Catholic legislation.  I think not.


Alright, fine, I'll live in Bavaria then.  Seems like the most fun-loving part anyhow.


I'm only voting for them in European elections, as you can see.


::)

I'm concerned about the high number of votes for neo-nazi and/or extreme nationalist parties on this forum.

As for me, German People's Party until the war, CDU afterwards.

Bismarck was a wise politician. His social program prevented a radicalization of the masses in Germany. He has it enforced against the will of his own supporters. Without his politics you would have a good chance to see a German Soviet Union 1919 ;)

I know also that the DFP and its subsequent parties, were an "economic liberal party" and to this point they wasn't fit together with the SPD, but otherwise had in the most other issues the same interests. By the way, Richter was not alone in the party. There was also a very strong social-liberal wing. Look at the Hirsch-Dunckersche Gewerkvereine (Left-Liberal Unions). All of them were supporters of the DFP, DDP.

to Bavaria:
Welcome in my State ;), but I think that the FDP is more your Party than the CSU. The CSU is socially, for a German party ;), very conservative and from time to time they are in economical issues more Social Democratic than the SPD (not often, but sometimes ;) )

to Republikaner:
Only because you are against the EU, you would vote for a Racist Redneck Party who stand for the exact opposite of your opinion????? Then better stay at home and don't go to the election.

Debatable, I'd think not.


The areas that they cooperated with the SPD in; free speech, legalizing unions, repealing the anti-Socialist laws, anti-anti-Semitism etc. are areas that I'd have agreed with the SPD too, so that's hardly a dealbreaker for me.  I'm aware that they weren't nearly as radical as I am, but then hardly anyone is.


I'm voting for them mainly as a protest vote during the FDP's flirtation with (modern) left-liberalism and cooperation with the SPD, although part of that was over military spending so perhaps I might rethink those votes.


In EU elections the only position that matters is the position on the EU.  I'm not voting for the communists, so that leaves them as the only option.  If there were someone else besides them, the commies and the Nazis who are Euroskeptic, then I'd vote for them.

Straight SPD. Probably PDS/Die Linke in 1998, 2002 and perhaps 2005 as well, but knowing myself I'd probably have gotten cold feet with the SPD being that far behind in polls. Better the devil that at least pretends to cater to your desires,...

[Tepidly raises hand]

Nope. 8)

If I said some of my beliefs, it would be considered trolling and I would risk being banned for inflammatory remarks or some sh-t

SPD pre-Agenda 2010.  Die Linke.PDS/Green swing voter in 2005 till 2009.  Would probably be swinging between the Greens, Linke, and SPD if I were in the West, and between the Greens and SPD if I were in the East, today.  If the SPD went back to the left and ditched Agenda 2010 and aplologized for it, I might go back to being a loyal SPD voter. 

If the SPD kicked out most of the Seeheimer Kreis/Netwerk Berlin/right wing neoliberal hacks (Steinbruck and Steinmeier especially), and if those in die Linke who came from the WASG/formerly SPD faction rejoined the party, then you'd have a party I could see myself voting for quite happily, were I German.

This.

By election:
1912: SPD
1919: SPD
1920: Independent SPD due to the government's handling of the Sparticist Uprising
1928: SPD
1930: Independent SPD again due to Muller's request for emergency powers
July 1932: SPD
November 1932: SPD
March 1933: SPD
1949: SPD
1953: SPD
1957: SPD
1961: SPD
1965: SPD
1969: SPD
1972: SPD
1976: SPD
1980: SPD
1983: Greens
1987: Greens
1990: SPD again with Lafontaine
1994: SPD
1998: SPD
2002: Greens, since I'd be ticked off by Schroder's Third Way policies, and even though the Greens were in his government, the only left-wing alternative would be the PDS, which I could never vote for so long as Stasi scum like Bisky and politically opportunistic hypocrites like Gysi were in major positions in the party.
2005: Eesh.  If I lived in a district with a WASG candidate (as opposed to a PDS one), then I'd vote WASG.  If it were a PDS candidate, then the Greens.  For party lists, the Greens, even though I'd be furious with them.  
2009: Greensagain, fully, and with much more enthusiasm (being incredibly unimpressed by Steinmeier and ticked off at his defense of Agenda 2010.)
Next election: Depends on the SPD's chancellor-candidate.  If it's Kraft, then the SPD.  If it's Steinbruck or Steinmeier, then Greens.  Maybe the Left, since it seems that a new generation is taking over.  Sorry, don't like the Pirates.  

1949: SPD
1953: SPD
1957: SPD
1961: SPD
1965: SPD
1969: SPD
1972: SPD
1976: SPD
1980: SPD
1983: SPD
1987: Greens
1990: SPD
1994: SPD
1998: SPD
2002: SPD
2005: SPD
2009: The Left

Why SPD in 2005?

Mostly because of Schröder's stance against the Iraq War.

Straight CDU in my constituency.
Straight FDP in my proportional ballot.

Even when the FDP were in coalition with the SPD?

Postwar: straight CDU.

Mine are pretty simple:
1949-1980: SPD
1983-present: Greens

I don't know but probably all CDU, at least since the 1980s or so.

Eh. You've exposed my lack of knowledge. Perhaps I would have  voted CDU on the proportional ballot, but I really don't know.

CDU till 2002.  Then as a "retire Kohl" vote FDP, CDU under Merkel.  Btw how does it look for her re-election?  Also, in Germany do people vote more based on their constituency's candidates or just their preferred parties?  Also, why is it that Merkel has approvals in the 60's but CDU would only get 30's or 40's in terms of votes according to recent-ish polls?

I'm no expert on Germany, but with regards to her re-election right now it looks like the only possible result of the next election is a CDU-SPD "grand coalition", with whichever party comes in first getting the Chancellorship. The CDU is still in first place by a good margin, so the odds are very strong that Merkel will be Chancellor under a CDU-SPD coalition, just like she was from 2005-2009.

Why did the original grand coalition fall apart anyway?

Also would it be possible to have a merger of the Pirate Party and the FDP?  What would be the results of such a merger?

I'm not really familiar with why the grand coalition failed, sorry.

With regard to the Pirates and the FDP, I think a merger of the two is very unlikely. The Pirates seem fairly left-leaning, supporting things like a universal basic income, although their positions on anything other than their signature issues are not well defined. Their support is kind of hard to pin down (a lot of it seems to be just anti-"establishment" without any particular ideology), but it seems like their biggest group of supporters are former Greens. I don't think many of their supporters would like a merger with the FDP.

The other parties seem to be taking a cordon sanitaire stance towards the Pirates right now and hoping that they'll just fade out over time. It seems like the CDU and SPD both would rather form a grand coalition than work with the Pirates, and given the amount of support both parties have a coalition between the two will essentially always be mathematically possible. The Pirates also don't seem to have a great desire to work with any of the other parties, as playing the outsider works for them right now. They'd probably lose a lot of support if they ever entered government with anyone.