Talk Elections

Is it just me, or are liberals in New England sort of conservative compared to liberals on the Pacific coast?

While New England has near-universally legalized same-sex marriage, and has elected people like Barney Frank, I get the impression that despite all this, New England is sort of more traditional and such, leaving the Pacific coast to have a higher concentration of major progressives.

Vermont is the only place that seems similar to the Pacific, in terms of the nature of it's left.

Or am I just rambling insanities?

Putting aside political affiliation, I think New Englanders are more traditionalist by a lot of metrics than Pacific Coast people.  I actually have a collection of maps to this effect somewhere...they're pretty legit.

Marijuana will be way slower to be accepted in New England than the left coast.

General hippieness is less appreciated in the East.

Being gay doesn't have to do with being a hippie.

"New England liberals" are anything but monolithic. New Hampshire liberals are practically soft libertarians (so are the Republicans)--look at their governor (though a few are more populist-leaning). Massachusetts liberals are divided between the Ivy League social liberals and working-class Irish & Italians, which are stronger in Rhode Island. Connecticut liberals are much like Scott and Napoleon--economically centrist and socially liberal. Vermont liberals are either greenies or rural populists, while Maine liberals are a combination of Massachusetts and Vermont liberals depending on what part of Maine you're in.

Vermont is very much traditional. And I don't think tradition has as much to do with politics as the Republicans would like us to think. The culture of the Northeast is very much traditional and there are many political philosophies sprouting from that.

Well there's definitely a difference between New England and Pacific Coast rural areas/Republicans.

The righties here are very reactionary

It depends on the Pacific conservatives. Eastern Oregon was, according to one study, the most conservative area in the country. However, the closer you get to the coast (especially in California), the more Republicans you see who are somewhere between Mitt Romney and Gary Johnson on the issues.

Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.

On the contrary, I'd say it's almost certain that the first state to legalize marijuana will be in New England.  Of course, it will be subsequently taxed at 900% and its smoking banned in every conceivable public and private location...

There's not as much polarization in New  England and the East Coast along ideological lines as there is on the West Coast. Part of it might have to do with the fact that the West Coast has lots of people who don't have a shared history together living in the same general area, in contrast to the East Coast. Another part of it is that people who were more idealistic (some would say foolish :P) than the norm made their way out West, and consequently, created a more dynamic ideological culture out there. Perhaps the fact that the West is much younger as a region of major metropolitan development than the East also has a lot to do with it.

Not so sure about that, you would have to beat Washington which is probably at about 50/50 odds for legalizing this year.

For reference, states that have decriminalized marijuana:

()

The medical marijuana bill may finally pass here but it is very restrictive...

BTW

Vermont has a much more rural and agrarian and (formerly and in certain quarters even now) traditionalist character to its liberalism than comparable areas on the Pacific coast. There are still some puritanical cultural attributes, which is also the case in much of Massachusetts outside the Boston area. This doesn't necessary have anything to do with positions on 'social issues' but it's clear in the way politics is often done and the kind of rhetoric and priorities that are usually made and employed.

Just like being homosexual doesn't have anything to do with being GAY.

Vermont has the most progressive tax structure of any state.
Washington has the least progressive tax structure of any state.

I remember those maps! This is what matters and determines how politics is colored in the west. At the local level, it wouldn't be considered controversial for politicians to be known pot smokers in some western cities, atheism is fairly normal (at the local level) and rhetoric is much more "green".

I'd say they're more socially liberal on the West Coast, and maybe more economically leftist in New England. The West Coast also has more of an environmentalist bent.

I can't really put my finger on why, but I certainly enjoy left coast liberal (lefty, whatever you people want to be called this week) more than NE liberal.  Part of it is probably the subtle racism I sense from many a NE liberal.  They also seem more apt to accept political hypocrisy and corruption as a necessary evil than left coast liberal.

At least the West Coast don't have such ridiculous blue laws.

We can still take pride in the fact that we're not the coast that came up with the Californian ideology.

I don't know much, but I have the feeling that West Coast lefties, while more socially liberal, are pretty moderate when it comes to economic issues. Or at least, that the consensus there is more favorable to low taxes.

Which is why my preference goes without saying.

Interesting there's so much more support for restrcitions on alchohol sales than you'd find in much of the country - considering CT and RI were the only states not to ratify Prohibition.

Why do you think that? I think Vermont may be the only candidate. I certainly don't see Massachusetts or definitely Rhode Island doing it. Not Connecticut either. Too much rich, moderate hero suburbs. Washington I think will be the first state, even before California which is probably second. Washington state doesn't have to do deal with Southern California's bullsh**t.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if AZ would be more progressive on this issue.

Eastern Washington, though.

Similar in scale to the Central Valley. I may be underestimating the conservative influence in Western Washington outside the Seattle area though. That might mostly account for the inland areas of Socal. I still have a feeling Washington is more likely to legalize than California.

()

Medical marijuana initiative, 1998

Eastern Washington is pretty libertarian on drug issues and "nanny state" issues: there's a reason why Ron Paul did so well there. Medical marijuana dispensaries are all over Spokane and the white working class in northern Spokane neighborhoods that certainly aren't bastions of liberalism (although they did vote for Obama) couldn't care less about marijuana laws.

Well, at least you got your priorities straight.

()

Though, consideration must be given to:

1. CA being the first state to legalize medical marijuana
2. Having a much more liberal law than WA

A presidential year should help. Hopefully WA can start full legalization off. In my state, it will take a while.

I think an important point to remember in the WA vs. CA debate is that while the Bay Area may be more left-wing than the Puget Sound, the Puget Sound makes up a much larger portion of WA than the Bay Area does CA.

True, we have Eastern Washington. But King County alone is more populous. We don't really have anything comparable to Orange County, or much of Southern California at all, really.

There's a certain type of "liberalism" that I really dislike that isn't so big in New England but rather moreso in places like Maryland and Illinois, that is kind of what like libertarians like to strawman liberalism as and really big nanny-statism. Like those states despite overwhelming Democratic majorities in the legislatures won't liberalize their drug laws, or why it was so difficult to pass medical marijuana laws, and why they have laws on things like making it illegal to film cops, and laws that basically no one favors but get passed anyway (like how Boris said that in Illinois drinking games are illegal and a lot of bars got raided for hosting them. And I've read in some places it's not just that drinking games are illegal in bars but ANYWHERE and private parties have been busted for them.) These are also the type of places that get obsessed over silly gun laws that don't really do anything to reduce gun crime but make people like Carolyn McCarthy feel better about themselves by passing them.

I kind of wonder what type of political culture leads to things like this, since barely anyone in grassroots Democratic activism supports it.

I think you misunderstood. ;)

Sounds likes lot of "liberals" here.

()

Substantial Catholic heritage vs. virtually none.

Fixed. 

You do know why they call it San Francisco, right?

You're kidding, right? On both counts?

The most socially liberal parts of New England are those with Puritan heritage...

(okay, outside of areas with Jewish heritage/areas with large yuppie or alt populations)

Their "social liberalism" isn't really what it appears on the surface, since it's adopted as a form of passive-aggressive ethnic conflict, and in any case it's more "social liberalism" in the Tipper Gore sense than the Howard Stern sense.

Sure. I'm not suggesting they're 17th century Calvinists.  Puritanism has always had a radical character to it. That Puritan heritage involves its post-Enlightenment transformation into movements such as Unitarianism, abolitionism and feminism. Still, many of those who are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage have a fundamentally communitarian approach to civic life. "City on a hill" and all that.

I don't think it's adopted as a form of passive-aggressive ethnic conflict so much as that's just a nice bonus for a lot of people.

This is the kind of vibe I've gotten from Massachusetts and Connecticut, with Massachusetts leaning more authoritarian, and Connecticut more hawkish, specifically Boston and the NYC suburbs.

I don't Massachusetts is really a good example, since it decriminalized marijuana by popular referendum, and passed it by an almost 2:1 margin with the whole vote being pretty uncontroversial.

One interesting thing about the west coast is how much being close to coast increases liberalism.  It's particularly true in California. In New England, Obama was strongest in Vermont and western Massachusetts.