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Election Archive => 2012 Elections => Topic started by: Phony Moderate on April 13, 2012, 08:43:25 pm



Title: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Phony Moderate on April 13, 2012, 08:43:25 pm
....or at least that's what some of his supporters may think when they read this.

Quote
Ron Paul to Obama and Romney: “Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.  Get over it.”

News is now leaking out about a private meeting between evangelical leaders and presidential candidate Ron Paul which took place last Wednesday night.  The leaders asked Dr. Paul about an Executive Order moving the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.  “The real issue here is not what America wants but what Israel wants.  We have no right to chose their capital,” Dr. Paul said, “If they say it is Jerusalem, then it is Jerusalem.”

The Barack Obama administration has consistently rejected this idea and Governor Mitt Romney steadfastly refuses to make a commitment on the issue.

The meeting held last Wednesday night in Ft. Worth, Texas, had two representatives of evangelicals presenting Dr. Paul with a list of questions they had received from denominational leaders, pastors and television evangelists.  In the wake of Senator Rick Santorum’s departure from the presidential race, many evangelical leaders are turning to Ron Paul.

The question to Dr. Paul was posed by Rev. Brian Jacobs, one of the evangelical participants.  Jacobs, a former consultant to the Billy Graham Association and a pastor of the Ft. Worth Metroplex Church asked the question at the beginning of the meeting. According to Jacobs, Dr. Paul asked, “How would we feel if some other nation told us that we would have to make our capital in New York and they refused to build their embassy in Washington, D.C.  It is none of our business.”

Paul’s answer even surprised some of his own staff.

http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/ron-paul-to-obama-and-romney-jerusalem-is-the-capital-of-israel/


Title: Re: Ron Paul: "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel"
Post by: Phony Moderate on April 13, 2012, 08:54:56 pm
This seems to be travelling pretty quickly in libertarian circles....


Title: Re: Ron Paul: "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel"
Post by: LastVoter on April 13, 2012, 08:56:49 pm
Wah wah Rahn Pahl! But shouldn't this destroy his base.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: argentarius on April 13, 2012, 09:09:00 pm
Paul was never anti-Israel.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: ag on April 13, 2012, 09:13:12 pm
Paul was never anti-Israel.

Which only goes to show that Israel isn't a Jewish state :))


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Miles on April 13, 2012, 09:16:49 pm
Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: ColonelSanchez on April 13, 2012, 09:22:45 pm
Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.
Why? I see nothing wrong with this. If Israel militarily controls it, then Israel as the right to make it the capital. If the Palestinians take it back, they have the right to make it their capital. 


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: America First on April 13, 2012, 09:24:30 pm
All he's saying is that if he was President, the US would move their embassy to wherever Israel wants their capital to be.  He's not saying that he supports one capital over another.  This doesn't bother me, and I'm usually very critical of politicians for pandering to Israel.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Miles on April 13, 2012, 09:25:17 pm
Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.
Why? I see nothing wrong with this. If Israel militarily controls it, then Israel as the right to make it the capital. If the Palestinians take it back, they have the right to make it their capital. 

Because I don't accept the premise that Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: The Mikado on April 13, 2012, 09:29:44 pm
I hate to admit it, but doesn't he have a point?  Wouldn't this be like someone in 1800 refusing to make the embassy to the Ottoman Empire be Istanbul because Constantinople belongs to the Greeks?  I mean, I don't feel that Israel has a legitimate claim to East Jerusalem, but they claim it as their capital. 


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Bull Moose Base on April 13, 2012, 09:41:07 pm
This feels like the flip side of people taking Obama's real original opposition to the Iraq War and projecting it into an assumption that he opposed all US military action then claiming they were defrauded.  People assume Ron Paul is kneejerk anti-Israel by taking his real opposition to other sacred cows of neocons and making unfounded assumptions.  Paul obviously is smart enough to realize he was telling this audience what they wanted to hear and was glad to, but it's not like he strayed from any non-interventionist positions he's taken previously or sold out.  I'm surprised his staff was surprised by his answer.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: tpfkaw on April 13, 2012, 11:21:20 pm
I was sort of shocked at first, given the symbolic implications, but then again Tel Aviv is also stolen land so it's not like there's any difference.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Senator R2D2 on April 13, 2012, 11:25:49 pm
I'm not exactly sure why this has bad connotations. He's got a point.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on April 13, 2012, 11:35:27 pm
Moreover, how is this surprising? Ron Paul's chief message has been "mind our own business." This is pretty much the epitome of minding our own business.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Penelope on April 13, 2012, 11:40:48 pm
Uhm, yeah, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Fact.

Quote
“The real issue here is not what America wants but what Israel wants.  We have no right to chose their capital,” Dr. Paul said, “If they say it is Jerusalem, then it is Jerusalem.”

I don't know, but this seems rather reasonable.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Mehmentum on April 14, 2012, 06:54:19 pm
Quote
Mitt Romney steadfastly refuses to make a commitment on the issue.
Mitt Romney firmly stands for not having an opinion!


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: politicus on April 14, 2012, 07:18:01 pm
Quote
Mitt Romney steadfastly refuses to make a commitment on the issue.
Mitt Romney firmly stands for not having an opinion!
;) So true!

On topc: An embassy should of course be in the host countrys de facto capital.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Torie on April 14, 2012, 07:28:03 pm
West Jerusalem has been a part of Israel since the beginning. Why are folks here disputing that bit of territory?  Is it a dispute over the existence of the state itself?  If not, why would one dispute on just which piece of real estate a nation chooses to host its capital?


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Jerseyrules on April 14, 2012, 09:40:41 pm
Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.

I don't see any significance in this article WHAT SO EVER!  Frankly, my dears, u don't give a damn.  And I'm going to vote for him in the primary no matter what.  Ron Paul is saying what he always does.  WE SHOULD LET THEM DO WHAT THEY WANT!


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Compassion Fills the Void on April 14, 2012, 09:57:01 pm
Are there any countries that do have their embassies in Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv?


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: The Mikado on April 14, 2012, 11:26:35 pm
Are there any countries that do have their embassies in Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv?

According to Wiki:

Quote
Subsequent to UNSC resolution 478, 13 countries (Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, the Netherlands, Panama, Uruguay and Venezuela) which had maintained their embassies in Jerusalem, moved their embassies out of the city, primarily to Tel Aviv. Costa Rica and El Salvador moved theirs back to Jerusalem in 1984. Costa Rica moved its embassy back to Tel Aviv in 2006 followed by El Salvador a few weeks later.[60][61] No international embassy remains in Jerusalem, although Paraguay has its embassy in Mevasseret Zion, a suburb 10 km west of the city,[62] as did Bolivia until relations were severed in 2009.[62][63]
Various countries recognized Israel as a state in the 1940s and 1950s, but they did not recognize Israeli sovereignty over West Jerusalem. There is an international sui generis consular corps in Jerusalem. It is commonly referred to as the "Consular Corps of the Corpus Separatum". The states that have maintained consulates in Jerusalem say that it was part of Mandate Palestine, and in a de jure sense, has not since become part of any other sovereignty.[13] The Netherlands maintains an office in Jerusalem serving mainly Israeli citizens. Other foreign governments base Consulate General offices in Jerusalem, including Greece, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States.[64] Since the President of Israel resides in Jerusalem and confirms the foreign diplomats, the ambassadors have to travel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to submit letters of credentials upon being appointed.
[edit]


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: True Federalist on April 15, 2012, 10:59:19 am
West Jerusalem has been a part of Israel since the beginning. Why are folks here disputing that bit of territory?  Is it a dispute over the existence of the state itself?  If not, why would one dispute on just which piece of real estate a nation chooses to host its capital?

Technically, West Jerusalem has not been a part of the State of Israel since the beginning.  Under the UN partition plan, Jerusalem was not part of either the Arab or Jewish states.  Tel Aviv was included in the area allocated to the Jewish state.  However, West Jerusalem is not the only area not part of the 1947 borders that is within the 1949-1967 borders, yet it is the part of which generates the most angst.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: TheGlobalizer on April 16, 2012, 04:50:48 pm
As someone who has spent time in Israel, yes, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.  Asserting otherwise is fantasy-land, and isn't based on any sort of actual facts.

Whether it's right that it is the case is another matter, but arguing about it is really just another piece of this retardedly elaborate Kabuki dance going on between the Israeli government and Palestinian Authority.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: #IAintAfraidOfNoGoats on April 16, 2012, 05:05:25 pm
This isn't selling out one bit. It's rather consistant with his views.


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: Democratic Hawk on April 16, 2012, 08:03:04 pm
And? Jerusalem is the capital of Israel


Title: Re: Ron Paul Sells Out
Post by: IDS Delegate Ben Kenobi on April 16, 2012, 08:29:36 pm
I think this was a great statement by Paul. Fully support.