Talk Elections

Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion => Congressional Elections => Topic started by: Kevin on May 02, 2012, 11:57:06 AM



Title: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Kevin on May 02, 2012, 11:57:06 AM
What's the deal over this issue about MA Senatorial candidate Elizabeth Warren and her having Native American heritage over the past couple of days? From what I make over it(having done much reading due to time constraints) she used this unfairly gain advantage's throughout her academic career? Which is a pretty serious allegation if true.

I also find it curious that I haven't read anything about this controversy on the forum, from what I can see that is. Prob due to the possibility that left-wing hacks who dominate this site don't want it to get in the way of their hard on's about Warren.

So what is this controversy really about? Or did I hit the nail on the head with my assumption?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Controversy
Post by: DrScholl on May 02, 2012, 12:18:24 PM
She provided proof of her ancestry and it was really the university that listed her as being a minority in their directories. It hasn't been mentioned, because it's non-factor and it makes me think that Brown is in for more of a struggle than previously thought. If he pushes this, he's going to end up in the Blanche Lincoln-Rick Santorum Club.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Controversy
Post by: tpfkaw on May 02, 2012, 12:25:41 PM
Quote
Christopher Child of the New England Historic and Genealogy Society said Monday he found an 1894 document in which Warren's great-great-great grandmother is listed as Cherokee, which would make the Harvard Law School professor 1/32nd American Indian. Child says more research is needed.

You know who else has a Cherokee great-great-great grandmother?  Yours truly, and everyone else with at least one parent from the Lower Midwest.  I've never even *considered* actually representing myself as "Native American" on college/job applications etc., because that's first of all pretty dishonest and second of all I would've thought there's no way it could actually work.  Apparently it can, laughably enough - maybe I should put it on my grad school application along with my essay about how whitey keeps me down.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Controversy
Post by: bgwah on May 02, 2012, 12:28:43 PM
I'd like to think Kevin is actually just a skilled troll, but I've been reading his posts long enough to know that's not the case...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Controversy
Post by: Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers on May 02, 2012, 12:54:56 PM
Jindell and Rick Perry have Native American roots and when a Democrat has it, it is a net negative but they are prez material.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Controversy
Post by: tpfkaw on May 02, 2012, 12:56:24 PM
Jindell and Rick Perry have Native American roots and when a Democrat has it, it is a net negative but they are prez material.

They didn't exploit it for career gain.  (Also it's somewhat more recent, I believe).


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Controversy
Post by: Kevin on May 02, 2012, 01:34:27 PM
Jindell and Rick Perry have Native American roots and when a Democrat has it, it is a net negative but they are prez material.

Rick Perry never discussed having Native blood let alone try to exploit it for career gain.

"Jindell" as in Bobby Jindal having Nave American heritage? That's news to me!?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 02, 2012, 03:31:41 PM
You have to consider that Brown is a puppet of people and things considerably less liked in Massachusetts than Barack Obama.

That being the case, this could be anything from a mild net negative for Warren to a serious net negative for Brown depending upon how it's spun and who decides to push it how much, and the first is probably somewhat more likely than the second.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Beet on May 02, 2012, 03:35:48 PM
I don't care about "cheating" a system that is unjust to begin with - race-based affirmative action. In any case what she wrote is technically correct. This shouldn't be a big deal.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 02, 2012, 03:40:34 PM
I don't care about "cheating" a system that is unjust to begin with - race-based affirmative action. In any case what she wrote is technically correct. This shouldn't be a big deal.

There are some people who will care strongly if this is roughly as the right here is painting it, but many of them likely won't be voting for Brown anyway. Any problem for Warren will be to a significant degree a matter of turnout (which was also a large part of Coakley's problem), and that could indeed end up being a problem, but it's somewhat less likely in a Presidential year.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: tpfkaw on May 02, 2012, 05:12:32 PM
I don't care about "cheating" a system that is unjust to begin with - race-based affirmative action. In any case what she wrote is technically correct. This shouldn't be a big deal.

There are some people who will care strongly if this is roughly as the right here is painting it, but many of them likely won't be voting for Brown anyway. Any problem for Warren will be to a significant degree a matter of turnout (which was also a large part of Coakley's problem), and that could indeed end up being a problem, but it's somewhat less likely in a Presidential year.

I, for one, am getting increasingly tempted to vote for Brown (as opposed to writing in Carla Howell or something) for the sole purpose of keeping Warren out.  This is also absolutely *not* going to play well in Southie or Quincy or Worcester or anyplace else where folks "work for a living."  The Herald should take this and run with it.

I don't care about "cheating" a system that is unjust to begin with - race-based affirmative action. In any case what she wrote is technically correct. This shouldn't be a big deal.

Awesome!  Harvard, here I come!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: morgieb on May 02, 2012, 06:53:21 PM
What's wrong with this anyway?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 02, 2012, 07:13:15 PM
Complete and total non-issue.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on May 02, 2012, 07:37:40 PM
lol "hard on's" lol.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Ogre Mage on May 02, 2012, 09:00:44 PM
This "controversy" has no relevance to the policy issues at stake in this campaign.  Warren is trying to run a campaign on the issues.  Brown mostly seems to ramble on about blah blah "Harvard Elitist" these days.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Mechaman on May 03, 2012, 12:10:40 AM

A discussion on Massachusetts isn't complete without it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: krazen1211 on May 03, 2012, 08:14:51 AM
Pocohontas Warren's grandpa had high cheekbones!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/warren-my-grandfather-had-high-cheekbones-all-indians-do_643103.html

Speaking to a reporter on a local news station in Boston, Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts cited her ancestor's "high cheekbones" (quoting an aunt) as evidence of her Native American heritage:

Earlier today, the Harvard law professor explained that she listed herself as "Native American" on school directories in the past so she could meet others "who are like I am." Genealogists have been unable to verify that Warren is descended from Native Americans, despite her claims.




Lol! Keep digging, lizzy!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Mechaman on May 03, 2012, 08:58:33 AM
Is she really making this an issue?

I hope Brown isn't stupid enough to make a big deal about it, because damn this sh*t is stupid.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 03, 2012, 09:27:06 AM
If this still is being pushed, Brown really is toast in this election, it's nothing but desperation. In 2010, when Richard Blumenthal made that Vietnam gaffe, it faded away remarkably and that was worse than this "scandal".


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 03, 2012, 09:35:20 AM
Warren's the one pushing it, not Brown. He should stay out of it.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 03, 2012, 09:39:54 AM
He has not stayed out of this http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2012/04/scott-brown-campaign-calls-elizabeth-warren-apologize-for-allowing-harvard-tout-her-native-american-warren-refuses/1Zl5ByWk5GvWgWx8fsAjLL/index.html

If he wasn't in trouble, this issue would have never come up at all, never.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 03, 2012, 10:03:15 AM
Pocohontas Warren's grandpa had high cheekbones!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/warren-my-grandfather-had-high-cheekbones-all-indians-do_643103.html

Speaking to a reporter on a local news station in Boston, Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts cited her ancestor's "high cheekbones" (quoting an aunt) as evidence of her Native American heritage:

Earlier today, the Harvard law professor explained that she listed herself as "Native American" on school directories in the past so she could meet others "who are like I am." Genealogists have been unable to verify that Warren is descended from Native Americans, despite her claims.




Lol! Keep digging, lizzy!

You use of course as always the very picture of a credible news source to back up your interpretation of events.

People from Oklahoma having somewhat...odd definitions of what constitutes the American Indian experience is of course completely unremarkable, but it is a little bit of a spectacle since she's running in Massachusetts. Like everything else that was supposed to sink her (or Brown, for that matter) so far this is overblown.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Mechaman on May 03, 2012, 10:10:52 AM
Pocohontas Warren's grandpa had high cheekbones!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/warren-my-grandfather-had-high-cheekbones-all-indians-do_643103.html

Speaking to a reporter on a local news station in Boston, Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts cited her ancestor's "high cheekbones" (quoting an aunt) as evidence of her Native American heritage:

Earlier today, the Harvard law professor explained that she listed herself as "Native American" on school directories in the past so she could meet others "who are like I am." Genealogists have been unable to verify that Warren is descended from Native Americans, despite her claims.




Lol! Keep digging, lizzy!

You use of course as always the very picture of a credible news source to back up your interpretation of events.

People from Oklahoma having somewhat...odd definitions of what constitutes the American Indian experience is of course completely unremarkable, but it's a little bit of a spectacle since she's running in Massachusetts. Like everything else that was supposed to sink her (or Brown, for that matter) so far this is overblown.

Oh, I must've missed the Weekly Standard part.
God I feel stupid now.

Still though, this is an absurd non-issue that neither side should even touch.  I mean really, who in Mass f***ing cares about NA ancestry?  Want to win votes?  Bring up an immigration document saying your folks were practicing Catholics from County Wexford, not that they were Cherokee.  That would really f*** up Scott Brown.

But yeah, folks here have a very odd definition of "Native American" when it comes to the census here.  Everybody and their grandmother really.  Well except for me, for similar reasons as Wormyguy stated.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: tpfkaw on May 03, 2012, 10:13:30 AM
"High cheekbones, like all the Indians have."

If a Republican in a high-profile Senate race had said this, it'd be all over the national news and there would be a big long thread in which all the liberals, Nathan included, would be yelling about how this is proof of how evil and hateful all Republicans are.  (Not that I like Republicans, but there *is* an *obvious* double standard).


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 03, 2012, 10:20:25 AM
She's something of a fool, for reasons that were relatively easy to divine already (this weird combination of perceived intellectual elitism and vague bumpkinness that's come out in this situation). She's not, in and of this specifically, made herself a worse Senate candidate than Scott Brown, if only because we would have a fool who would occasionally vote based on something other than the specific kind of corporate propping-up that I find most objectionable (I'm not naive enough to believe there wouldn't be other kinds of corporate propping-up) rather than one who wouldn't.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Mechaman on May 03, 2012, 10:30:31 AM
"High cheekbones, like all the Indians have."

If a Republican in a high-profile Senate race had said this, it'd be all over the national news and there would be a big long thread in which all the liberals, Nathan included, would be yelling about how this is proof of how evil and hateful all Republicans are.  (Not that I like Republicans, but there *is* an *obvious* double standard).

Yeah, that was a bit stupid.

So is culturalist behavior (which I make a point to lampoon at times).


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Napoleon on May 03, 2012, 10:40:44 AM
The sinking of her ship starts now. It was fun while it lasted. :(


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 03, 2012, 10:52:49 AM
How does this end an campaign? It's silliness. It's May and these sort of stories have a short shelf life, it won't last until next month, let alone until November. Actual issues might have something to do with how this race turns out, but maybe I'm wrong about that.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Landslide Lyndon on May 03, 2012, 10:56:03 AM
How does this end an campaign? It's silliness. It's May and these sort of stories have a short shelf life, it won't last until next month, let alone until November. Actual issues might have something to do with how this race turns out, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Remember how her mistake about the Red Sox would be the beginning of the end of her campaign? Fun times.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Keystone Phil on May 03, 2012, 11:26:52 AM
Great candidate!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 03, 2012, 11:30:36 AM
"High cheekbones, like all the Indians have."

If a Republican in a high-profile Senate race had said this, it'd be all over the national news and there would be a big long thread in which all the liberals, Nathan included, would be yelling about how this is proof of how evil and hateful all Republicans are.  (Not that I like Republicans, but there *is* an *obvious* double standard).
From the video clip it sounds like she was recounting a story her grandmother told her.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Joe Republic on May 03, 2012, 08:48:35 PM
Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 Cherokee.  As is the principal chief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_John_Baker) of the Cherokee Nation, incidentally.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on May 03, 2012, 09:32:12 PM
On a 0-10 scale, 0 being not a scandal at all, 10 being candidate found with a dead body and murder weapon, this ranks around a 2.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: BM on May 03, 2012, 11:13:03 PM
She is a complete joke and I'm someone who wanted her to live up to the hype. Can't say I'm surprised though.

Why does MA field such awful Democratic candidates from an infinite pool of options? I guess years of just relying on the Kennedys contributed.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: tpfkaw on May 03, 2012, 11:37:21 PM
She is a complete joke and I'm someone who wanted her to live up to the hype. Can't say I'm surprised though.

Why does MA field such awful Democratic candidates from an infinite pool of options? I guess years of just relying on the Kennedys contributed.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  Political machines are very insular, clubby, and downright weird, and the candidates they nominate often reflect that (the saving grace being that non-existent oppositions frequently nominate mentally-ill and/or extremist candidates running "paper" campaigns).  Warren is proving to be the Democratic equivalent of Katherine Harris or Sharron Angle; she may well lose an election that the Democrats ought to easily win by 15 points or more if they nominated someone even remotely likeable or who even pretends to be a moderate.

The other reason why they don't have a nominee is because in a political machine there generally isn't an "infinite pool of options" - there are so many multi-decade incumbents that the bench is pretty short.  Not only that but everyone high-profile wants to wait for a sure victory before running, and won't declare for an election in which they have even the possibility of losing.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: 7,052,770 on May 03, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
Why is Scott Brown so lucky?  I can't believe the Democrats might blow this one AGAIN...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 03, 2012, 11:53:36 PM
Let's talk about something of substance instead, like ethics.

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/03/brown-staff-treads-line-blends-official-work-with-campaign-activity/464XAe7Tu1n4WwUBIgquMI/story.html

May not be anything, but it's certainly more worth discussing than this Native American stuff. How much more of this sort of thing is really going on? Just putting information out there.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: tpfkaw on May 03, 2012, 11:58:37 PM
Let's talk about something of substance instead, like ethics.

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/03/brown-staff-treads-line-blends-official-work-with-campaign-activity/464XAe7Tu1n4WwUBIgquMI/story.html

May not be anything, but it's certainly more worth discussing than this. How much more of this sort of thing is really going on? It should be looked into.

So your opinion is that nobody receiving a government salary should be allowed to work on a political campaign?  Good to know!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 04, 2012, 12:00:03 AM
Let's talk about something of substance instead, like ethics.

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/03/brown-staff-treads-line-blends-official-work-with-campaign-activity/464XAe7Tu1n4WwUBIgquMI/story.html

May not be anything, but it's certainly more worth discussing than this. How much more of this sort of thing is really going on? It should be looked into.

So your opinion is that nobody receiving a government salary should be allowed to work on a political campaign?  Good to know!

The law says they can't campaign on federal time. Brown needs to explain exactly how much his official staff is involved with his campaign.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: tpfkaw on May 04, 2012, 12:06:21 AM
Let's talk about something of substance instead, like ethics.

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/03/brown-staff-treads-line-blends-official-work-with-campaign-activity/464XAe7Tu1n4WwUBIgquMI/story.html

May not be anything, but it's certainly more worth discussing than this. How much more of this sort of thing is really going on? It should be looked into.

So your opinion is that nobody receiving a government salary should be allowed to work on a political campaign?  Good to know!

The law says they can't campaign on federal time. Brown needs to explain exactly how much his official staff is involved with his campaign.

And the article says they weren't campaigning on federal time, making it quite literally much ado about nothing, unlike Warren lying (or at least maintaining a very dubious half-truth) for career gain.

I mean, people in this thread are saying this proves Brown is desperate, but if your best "scandals" are that his daughter's on his health insurance and one of his congressional staffers posted a video to his campaign youtube account...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 04, 2012, 12:14:09 AM

And the article says they weren't campaigning on federal time, making it quite literally much ado about nothing, unlike Warren lying (or at least maintaining a very dubious half-truth) for career gain.

I mean, people in this thread are saying this proves Brown is desperate, but if your best "scandals" are that his daughter's on his health insurance and one of his congressional staffers posted a video to his campaign youtube account...

It's a very thin line where the law goes, I just noted the article for discussion. I'm just curious about how much deeper it could go.

And hypocrisy on policy is an issue. You can't seriously rail against a law and then take advantage of it, without looking hypocritical.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bacon King on May 04, 2012, 03:51:14 AM
I can't sleep and I have nothing productive to do tonight so I looked into this Cherokee ancestry thing.

The ancestor in question, Neoma (or Oma) O.C. Sarah Smith (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lyndasmith395&id=I1977), was almost certainly the child of Wyatt and Peggy Smith, and there's no indication either of them had Cherokee ancestry. I suppose it's possible that when the family moved from North Carolina to Tennessee and they were passing through the Cherokee nation that they took in a young Cherokee girl- her name doesn't actually show up on records until 1820, when she was married to J.H. Crawford and living next door to Wyatt and Peggy in Tennessee- but I don't know how likely something like that is to have happened. It would explain the weird name and initials possibly hiding a Cherokee name, though, in trying to pass as white.

I think it's more likely though that William J Crawford in his 1894 marriage was just putting his mom's race down as Cherokee to try to prove ancestry to get a free Indian land grant from the Dawes Commission (which was established a year before). Literally tens of thousands of whites tried to falsely prove Native American ancestry to the Commission to get a land grant.

Not saying she doesn't actually have Native American ancestry or anything; being a white person from Oklahoma she's probably got 1/32 ancestry from some relative anyway. This probably isn't the source, though.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: krazen1211 on May 04, 2012, 09:35:42 AM
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/20220504warren_brings_no_peace_to_dems/srvc=home&position=0


“There’s nobody watching this that doesn’t think she’s in big trouble,” one well-known Massachusetts Democrat said.




Yep, they are panicking. Next time perhaps the Democrats will nominate a more generic male candidate.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 04, 2012, 09:45:52 AM
If Brown wins, it certainly won't be because of this.....


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Landslide Lyndon on May 04, 2012, 10:28:06 AM
It's funny how this thing has everyone hyperventilating but Brown's Obamacare hypocrisy is business as usual.
Anyone want to bet that by Labor Day only krazey and his fellow nutjobs will remember the "Pocahontas Scandal"?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Brittain33 on May 04, 2012, 11:33:49 AM
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/20220504warren_brings_no_peace_to_dems/srvc=home&position=0


“There’s nobody watching this that doesn’t think she’s in big trouble,” one well-known Massachusetts Democrat said.

The Herald is going to run "sky is falling" articles and damning anonymous quotes from "very important Dems" about Warren every day from now until Election Day. It's what they do. If this column isn't by Howie Carr, I expect the next two or three posted to this thread will be. 

It's hard to see this as being anything anyone will remember a week from now.  


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Oakvale on May 04, 2012, 12:19:40 PM
Thoughts -

1) This is embarrassing and a stupid gaffe by Warren, who's a far, far overhyped candidate anyway. This is what happens when you run untested academics for high office, though.

2) That said, I can't imagine this changing anyone's vote, or being remember by anyone but the resident freepers come Election Day.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: LastVoter on May 04, 2012, 01:58:14 PM
This is MA, she'll win by 3-5 points.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Mechaman on May 04, 2012, 03:41:38 PM
Thoughts -

1) This is embarrassing and a stupid gaffe by Warren, who's a far, far overhyped candidate anyway. This is what happens when you run untested academics for high office, though.

2) That said, I can't imagine this changing anyone's vote, or being remember by anyone but the resident freepers come Election Day.

This.

Sums up my thoughts on the matter exactly.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 07, 2012, 02:03:12 AM
This "issue" is the filthiest race-baiting I've seen in years, quite frankly.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on May 07, 2012, 02:11:46 AM
She's been found to be at least 1/32 Cherokee. Scott Brown must know that the real issues are losers when he's a pawn of Wall Street and she's not.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: freepcrusher on May 07, 2012, 08:36:12 AM
i was never a big fan of Warren in the first place. She just strikes me as a caricature of a neurotic female pol similar to someone like Bella Abzug. The democrats should have found a less foot-in-mouth candidate like Lynch or McGovern.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 07, 2012, 11:43:45 AM
i was never a big fan of Warren in the first place. She just strikes me as a caricature of a neurotic female pol similar to someone like Bella Abzug. The democrats should have found a less foot-in-mouth candidate like Lynch or McGovern.

Lynch or McGovern wouldn't be able to beat Brown. They're about as untested as Warren without any of her positives.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Keystone Phil on May 07, 2012, 11:48:22 AM
She's been found to be at least 1/32 Cherokee. Scott Brown must know that the real issues are losers when he's a pawn of Wall Street and she's not.

What a victory for the Warren campaign!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: tpfkaw on May 07, 2012, 11:48:46 AM
i was never a big fan of Warren in the first place. She just strikes me as a caricature of a neurotic female pol similar to someone like Bella Abzug. The democrats should have found a less foot-in-mouth candidate like Lynch or McGovern.

Lynch is pro-life, McGovern is Fidel Castro and FARC's #1 US fan.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 07, 2012, 11:54:33 AM
This "issue" is the filthiest race-baiting I've seen in years, quite frankly.

Indeed it is and no less from the campaign of a "moderate".


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on May 07, 2012, 12:15:05 PM
She's been found to be at least 1/32 Cherokee. Scott Brown must know that the real issues are losers when he's a pawn of Wall Street and she's not.

What a victory for the Warren campaign!

I think most voters will care more about things like Brown voting down the Buffet Rule than this nonsense.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Oakvale on May 07, 2012, 12:21:14 PM
This "issue" is the filthiest race-baiting I've seen in years, quite frankly.

I think this is certainly a stupid issue and I hope it disappears rapidly, but how on earth is it "race-baiting"?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 07, 2012, 12:24:30 PM
I think this is certainly a stupid issue and I hope it disappears rapidly, but how on earth is it "race-baiting"?

How is it not race-baiting? They had no reason to think Warren was lying about her ancestry, yet they claimed (with no basis whatsoever) she was using her ancestry to win preferences.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 07, 2012, 12:32:41 PM
I think this is certainly a stupid issue and I hope it disappears rapidly, but how on earth is it "race-baiting"?

How is it not race-baiting? They had no reason to think Warren was lying about her ancestry, yet they claimed (with no basis whatsoever) she was using her ancestry to win preferences.

Claiming 1/32 American Indian ancestry as conferring minority status is legitimately disingenuous, though, and it's one of the few genuine negatives that I perceive in Warren. It's just that I don't see it as a particularly major issue considering where she comes from, where Brown comes from, and what this election is about.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Brittain33 on May 07, 2012, 04:47:09 PM
It's race-baiting because it's invoking a backlash against affirmative action.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Torie on May 07, 2012, 10:07:12 PM
It's race-baiting because it's invoking a backlash against affirmative action.

Or it is just a calling out of false and misleading conduct rank with dishonesty, and disingenuousness. If that renders one vulnerable to being b slapped by the race card, that is really sad state of affairs. But, no pain, no gain. If that is the price, so be it. Courage.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Keystone Phil on May 07, 2012, 10:17:53 PM
It's race-baiting because it's invoking a backlash against affirmative action.

Or it is just a calling out of false and misleading conduct rank with dishonesty, and disingenuousness. If that renders one vulnerable to being b slapped by the race card, that is really sad state of affairs. But, no pain, no gain. If that is the price, so be it. Courage.

Torie, Scott Brown is a Republican. They have to say that he is race baiting!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Ogre Mage on May 08, 2012, 03:06:39 AM
Scott Brown is, unsurprisingly, still trying to keep this story going:

Quote
Returning to the Capitol  on Monday evening, the Massachusetts Republican was asked about Warren's rationale to list herself as a minority law teacher from 1986 to 1995.

"The bottom line is: You guys have asked a lot of serious questions and she needs to answer the questions. It's pretty simple," Brown told POLITICO.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-congress/2012/05/brown-to-warren-answer-the-questions-122715.html


Quote
U.S. Sen. Scott Brown demanded that Elizabeth Warren release her law school applications and personnel files today, saying questions about Warren’s Native American heritage mean she must answer, “whether it was appropriate for her to assume minority status as a professor.”
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20220508brown_calls_on_warren_to_reveal_law_school_records/srvc=home&position=0 (http://news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20220508brown_calls_on_warren_to_reveal_law_school_records/srvc=home&position=0)


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 08, 2012, 03:11:48 AM
The Boston Herald is as guilty as Scott Brown is, quite frankly. This behavior is completely unbecoming of a supposedly mainstream paper.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2012, 08:08:36 AM
It's race-baiting because it's invoking a backlash against affirmative action.

Or it is just a calling out of false and misleading conduct rank with dishonesty, and disingenuousness. If that renders one vulnerable to being b slapped by the race card, that is really sad state of affairs. But, no pain, no gain. If that is the price, so be it. Courage.

Consider the possibility that both are at work here.

Some people were genuinely appalled at Rev. Wright, some people also saw the possibility to scare a certain segment of the population. With the Boston Herald, they have quite a track record on issues like this.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 08, 2012, 10:03:33 AM
My own opinion:

The controversy itself is a COTD with little if any staying power. Real lesson is that Team Warren still has some lessons to learn in rapid response and tactical messaging. This race will be won on 2 things: how well blue-collar Democrats receive their microtargeted messages from both candidates 2) GOTV. Everything else is so much background noise.



Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: BM on May 08, 2012, 03:52:40 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/elizabeth-warren-shares-lineage-with-militia-member-implicated-in-run-up-to-trail-of-tears/

LOL!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: phk on May 08, 2012, 04:40:20 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/elizabeth-warren-shares-lineage-with-militia-member-implicated-in-run-up-to-trail-of-tears/

LOL!

So her 1/32 phony heritage was actually not Native American but a dude who actively hurt Native Americans.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 08, 2012, 04:41:51 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/elizabeth-warren-shares-lineage-with-militia-member-implicated-in-run-up-to-trail-of-tears/

LOL!

Assuming some degree of Indian blood is legit, which is certainly possible if not in any of the ways that people appear to have been claiming, this reminds me a little of how there is an entire fraternal organization for people who have both Patriot and Loyalist ancestors (and there are quite a few such people; it's inevitable if enough branches of your family have been in America for long enough).


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Simfan34 on May 08, 2012, 07:08:34 PM
It's dishonesty, plain and simple.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 08, 2012, 09:19:50 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/elizabeth-warren-shares-lineage-with-militia-member-implicated-in-run-up-to-trail-of-tears/

LOL!
Not implicated in a criminal sense, since he was involved as part of his duties as a member of the TN militia. 
He married O. C. Sarah Smith in 1819 (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lyndasmith395&id=I1977).  It might be she was a Cherokee who identified herself as white to cause her and her family less trouble, but her son knew her to be Cherokee. That would be interesting.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on May 08, 2012, 10:38:12 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/elizabeth-warren-shares-lineage-with-militia-member-implicated-in-run-up-to-trail-of-tears/

LOL!

So her 1/32 phony heritage was actually not Native American but a dude who actively hurt Native Americans.

The status of her other ancestors doesn't mean that she's not 1/32 Native American. Obama didn't stop being 1/2 black because he had white ancestors who owned black slaves.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Joe Republic on May 11, 2012, 02:04:49 PM
Quote from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/elizabeth-warren-minority-status_n_1508060.html

BOSTON -- Records show that the leading Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts identified her race as "white" on an employment record at the University of Texas and declined to apply for admission to Rutgers Law School under a program for minority students.

The records on Elizabeth Warren were obtained by The Associated Press on Thursday. Warren's heritage has been under scrutiny after it surfaced that she had listed herself as having Native American heritage in law school directories.

[...]

On the Rutgers application, Warren wrote "No" in response to the question: "Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?"

Warren graduated from Rutgers in 1976.

On a personnel file from the University of Texas, Warren checked the box "White" when asked to select "the racial category or categories with which you most closely identify."

The categories included a box for "American Indian or Alaska Native," which Warren did not check.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 11, 2012, 03:04:08 PM
Quote from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/elizabeth-warren-minority-status_n_1508060.html

BOSTON -- Records show that the leading Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts identified her race as "white" on an employment record at the University of Texas and declined to apply for admission to Rutgers Law School under a program for minority students.

The records on Elizabeth Warren were obtained by The Associated Press on Thursday. Warren's heritage has been under scrutiny after it surfaced that she had listed herself as having Native American heritage in law school directories.

[...]

On the Rutgers application, Warren wrote "No" in response to the question: "Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?"

Warren graduated from Rutgers in 1976.

On a personnel file from the University of Texas, Warren checked the box "White" when asked to select "the racial category or categories with which you most closely identify."

The categories included a box for "American Indian or Alaska Native," which Warren did not check.

Well, that pretty much settles it. Scott Brown is looking even stupider than before.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 11, 2012, 04:19:32 PM
Quote from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/elizabeth-warren-minority-status_n_1508060.html

BOSTON -- Records show that the leading Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts identified her race as "white" on an employment record at the University of Texas and declined to apply for admission to Rutgers Law School under a program for minority students.

The records on Elizabeth Warren were obtained by The Associated Press on Thursday. Warren's heritage has been under scrutiny after it surfaced that she had listed herself as having Native American heritage in law school directories.

[...]

On the Rutgers application, Warren wrote "No" in response to the question: "Are you interested in applying for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students?"

Warren graduated from Rutgers in 1976.

On a personnel file from the University of Texas, Warren checked the box "White" when asked to select "the racial category or categories with which you most closely identify."

The categories included a box for "American Indian or Alaska Native," which Warren did not check.

Well, that pretty much settles it. Scott Brown is looking even stupider than before.
What does it settle? That she only became an American Indian after law school?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bacon King on May 11, 2012, 04:35:55 PM
It means that she didn't use Native American heritage to get ahead in her career, so even though it's stupid her "cultural opportunities" explanation actually fits. I'm willing to bet that around that time, someone important to her on her mom's side had died so she began exploring that part of her heritage (and it seems from family stories that they thought it was a lot more prominent than it actually is).

The only other explanation would be if Harvard's administration pressured her to put it down so it'd look like they had more minority faculty, but only making her do it would be pointless and if they did it on a bigger scale it would have been easily detectable so a scandal would have probaby come out years ago.   


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: zorkpolitics on May 19, 2012, 04:23:11 AM
Warren contributed recipes to something called the Pow Wow Chow cookbook that were obviously copied from other sources, apparently violating copyright laws.  Wonder if the statute of limitations has expired?  At the very least she has a serious ethics problem.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/did-elizabeth-warren-plagiarize-pow-wow-chow-recipes


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on May 19, 2012, 05:34:10 AM
Can't believe krazy wasn't the one to post about cookbookgate.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 19, 2012, 10:24:58 AM
Warren contributed recipes to something called the Pow Wow Chow cookbook that were obviously copied from other sources, apparently violating copyright laws.  Wonder if the statute of limitations has expired?  At the very least she has a serious ethics problem.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/did-elizabeth-warren-plagiarize-pow-wow-chow-recipes

The Scott Brown camp is really grasping.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on May 19, 2012, 10:29:53 AM
Warren contributed recipes to something called the Pow Wow Chow cookbook that were obviously copied from other sources, apparently violating copyright laws.  Wonder if the statute of limitations has expired?  At the very least she has a serious ethics problem.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/did-elizabeth-warren-plagiarize-pow-wow-chow-recipes

Welp, Warren's sunk. Safe Brown.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 19, 2012, 10:36:58 AM
Warren contributed recipes to something called the Pow Wow Chow cookbook that were obviously copied from other sources, apparently violating copyright laws.  Wonder if the statute of limitations has expired?  At the very least she has a serious ethics problem.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/did-elizabeth-warren-plagiarize-pow-wow-chow-recipes
Lol, is crab meat even a common traditional food in the interior south?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Minnesota Mike on May 19, 2012, 01:52:16 PM
Recipes? We are worried about recipes? Shows how desperate and pathetic the Brown camp is.

BTW I had to laugh at yesterdays hit piece by that National Review that accused Warren of plagiarizing a book that was published after her book. Ooops.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: DrScholl on May 19, 2012, 02:59:52 PM
Somehow, I don't think debate over recipes will carry over until November. At this point, it looks like Republicans are just throwing a bunch of stuff out there and seeing what sticks, which says to me Brown doesn't have a chance of winning on the issues, so he needs a gotcha.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on May 19, 2012, 08:37:34 PM
How can anyone take this election at all seriously?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Nichlemn on May 19, 2012, 08:52:16 PM
I think this is more useful as an indicator of Warren's possible future campaigning problems than a scandal in and of itself.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on May 19, 2012, 09:58:37 PM
Recipe plagiarism the best the Brown camp can come up with? Well I guess they can't attack her on the issues so...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 19, 2012, 10:37:18 PM
Recipe plagiarism the best the Brown camp can come up with? Well I guess they can't attack her on the issues so...

Well, they actually have, you know. I mean, she's being called a borderline communist up here.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Joe Republic on May 19, 2012, 10:53:53 PM
How can anyone take this election at all seriously?

It's no more ridiculous than the last Senate election in MA...


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 20, 2012, 01:05:32 AM
Recipe plagiarism the best the Brown camp can come up with? Well I guess they can't attack her on the issues so...

Well, they actually have, you know. I mean, she's being called a borderline communist up here.

They can and have been attacking her on the issues but they clearly don't seem to feel it's been working to their satisfaction.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: The Professor on May 20, 2012, 01:06:59 AM
Recipes? We are worried about recipes?

Not all of us are like you and shovel McDonalds down our throat every day. Some of us like to cook our own meals using recipes and we prefer it if the recipes weren't plagiarized.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 20, 2012, 01:10:27 AM
Recipes? We are worried about recipes?

Not all of us are like you and shovel McDonalds down our throat every day. Some of us like to cook our own meals using recipes and we prefer it if the recipes weren't plagiarized.

Honestly, the concept of 'plagiarizing recipes' reminds me of nothing so much as the more bafflingly nostalgic elements of growing up in a small town with an aging, disproportionately white, disproportionately female population.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: The Professor on May 20, 2012, 01:17:16 AM
Recipes? We are worried about recipes?

Not all of us are like you and shovel McDonalds down our throat every day. Some of us like to cook our own meals using recipes and we prefer it if the recipes weren't plagiarized.

Honestly, the concept of 'plagiarizing recipes' reminds me of nothing so much as the more bafflingly nostalgic elements of growing up in a small town with an aging, disproportionately white, disproportionately female population.

I don't see the problem here


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 20, 2012, 01:23:53 AM
Recipes? We are worried about recipes?

Not all of us are like you and shovel McDonalds down our throat every day. Some of us like to cook our own meals using recipes and we prefer it if the recipes weren't plagiarized.

Honestly, the concept of 'plagiarizing recipes' reminds me of nothing so much as the more bafflingly nostalgic elements of growing up in a small town with an aging, disproportionately white, disproportionately female population.

I don't see the problem here

It wasn't a problem. It's just that old white women in rural New England have historically been stereotyped as having certain attitudes towards agricultural production.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Brittain33 on May 20, 2012, 04:16:25 AM
Naturally, RecipeGate was all over the first three pages of the Herald on Weds. or Thurs.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: zorkpolitics on May 20, 2012, 07:57:42 AM
Naturally, RecipeGate was all over the first three pages of the Herald on Weds. or Thurs.

Somehow the Globe missed the entire story!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on May 20, 2012, 08:24:33 AM
Naturally, RecipeGate was all over the first three pages of the Herald on Weds. or Thurs.

Somehow the Globe missed the entire story!
That's because it's a non-story.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 20, 2012, 10:20:09 AM
Somehow the Globe missed the entire story!

Maybe the Globe is respectable.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on May 20, 2012, 11:02:45 AM
Naturally, RecipeGate was all over the first three pages of the Herald on Weds. or Thurs.

Do you feel like shaking your head in disbelief or...?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 20, 2012, 05:27:36 PM
Naturally, RecipeGate was all over the first three pages of the Herald on Weds. or Thurs.

Do you feel like shaking your head in disbelief or...?

It's the Herald.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on May 20, 2012, 08:46:34 PM
Naturally, RecipeGate was all over the first three pages of the Herald on Weds. or Thurs.

Do you feel like shaking your head in disbelief or...?

It's the Herald.

But this is a real election. For real. In realityland. This is actually happening.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 20, 2012, 09:46:14 PM
Naturally, RecipeGate was all over the first three pages of the Herald on Weds. or Thurs.

Do you feel like shaking your head in disbelief or...?

It's the Herald.

But this is a real election. For real. In realityland. This is actually happening.

The fact that the Boston Herald is actually happening in realityland has given me cause for concern many a time.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Oakvale on May 20, 2012, 10:27:35 PM
I demand to see the original long-form copy of Warren's recipes.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 21, 2012, 01:00:20 PM
I demand to see the original long-form copy of Warren's recipes.
http://imgur.com/nKxAS


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2012, 08:38:01 AM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2012/05/31/elizabeth_warren_acknowledges_telling_harvard_penn_of_native_american_status/

“At some point after I was hired by them, I . . . provided that information to the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard,’’ she said in a statement issued by her campaign. “My Native American heritage is part of who I am, I’m proud of it and I have been open about it.’’

Warren’s statement is her first acknowledgment that she identified herself as Native American to the Ivy League schools. While she has said she identified herself as a minority in a legal directory, she has carefully avoided any suggestion during the last month that she took further actions to promote her purported heritage.

When the issue first surfaced last month, Warren said she only learned Harvard was claiming her as a minority when she read it in the Boston Herald.




Whoops. She lied.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 31, 2012, 10:44:31 AM

No she didn't. Read the article again.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Vosem on May 31, 2012, 07:54:17 PM

She did. First she said she didn't know Harvard had her listed as a minority. Then she said she provided that information herself, which means she already knew.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 31, 2012, 07:55:57 PM

She did. First she said she didn't know Harvard had her listed as a minority. Then she said she provided that information herself, which means she already knew.

"At some point after I was hired by them..."

After. Not before.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Vosem on May 31, 2012, 08:58:44 PM

She did. First she said she didn't know Harvard had her listed as a minority. Then she said she provided that information herself, which means she already knew.

"At some point after I was hired by them..."

After. Not before.

When she told Harvard she was Native American is beside the point. She claimed she never did so, but in actuality she did, even if it wasn't exactly at the time most people assumed. She lied.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 31, 2012, 09:00:01 PM
When she told Harvard she was Native American is beside the point. She claimed she never did so, but in actuality she did, even if it wasn't exactly at the time most people assumed. She lied.

When did she ever claim she wasn't part Native American?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Vosem on May 31, 2012, 09:12:48 PM
When she told Harvard she was Native American is beside the point. She claimed she never did so, but in actuality she did, even if it wasn't exactly at the time most people assumed. She lied.

When did she ever claim she wasn't part Native American?

She never claimed she wasn't part Native American, but she did claim she was unaware that Harvard had registered her as Native American until recently admitting (krazen posted a link) that she had told the university she was Native American.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 31, 2012, 09:16:13 PM
When she told Harvard she was Native American is beside the point. She claimed she never did so, but in actuality she did, even if it wasn't exactly at the time most people assumed. She lied.

When did she ever claim she wasn't part Native American?

She never claimed she wasn't part Native American, but she did claim she was unaware that Harvard had registered her as Native American until recently admitting (krazen posted a link) that she had told the university she was Native American.

The only thing the article proves is that she was telling the truth all along.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Vosem on May 31, 2012, 09:34:10 PM
When she told Harvard she was Native American is beside the point. She claimed she never did so, but in actuality she did, even if it wasn't exactly at the time most people assumed. She lied.

When did she ever claim she wasn't part Native American?

She never claimed she wasn't part Native American, but she did claim she was unaware that Harvard had registered her as Native American until recently admitting (krazen posted a link) that she had told the university she was Native American.

The only thing the article proves is that she was telling the truth all along.

That article clearly demonstrates that she lied.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 31, 2012, 09:38:27 PM
When she told Harvard she was Native American is beside the point. She claimed she never did so, but in actuality she did, even if it wasn't exactly at the time most people assumed. She lied.

When did she ever claim she wasn't part Native American?

She never claimed she wasn't part Native American, but she did claim she was unaware that Harvard had registered her as Native American until recently admitting (krazen posted a link) that she had told the university she was Native American.

The only thing the article proves is that she was telling the truth all along.

That article clearly demonstrates that she lied.

Go ahead. Live in denial. The proof she told the truth is right there in plain sight.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Torie on May 31, 2012, 09:52:19 PM
Brit Hume claimed tonight that Warren has failed to prove that she is even 1/32 Native American. If it turns out that she is as white as I am, that would be an epic fail. Has anyone asked her just who her Native American ancestor was?  Just asking.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on May 31, 2012, 09:57:11 PM
Brit Hume claimed tonight that Warren has failed to prove that she is even 1/32 Native American.

Ooh, Brit Hume said it. Now THAT'S epic fail!


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on June 01, 2012, 12:55:25 AM
Brit Hume claimed tonight that Warren has failed to prove that she is even 1/32 Native American. If it turns out that she is as white as I am, that would be an epic fail. Has anyone asked her just who her Native American ancestor was?  Just asking.

I can't sleep and I have nothing productive to do tonight so I looked into this Cherokee ancestry thing.

The ancestor in question, Neoma (or Oma) O.C. Sarah Smith (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lyndasmith395&id=I1977), was almost certainly the child of Wyatt and Peggy Smith, and there's no indication either of them had Cherokee ancestry. I suppose it's possible that when the family moved from North Carolina to Tennessee and they were passing through the Cherokee nation that they took in a young Cherokee girl- her name doesn't actually show up on records until 1820, when she was married to J.H. Crawford and living next door to Wyatt and Peggy in Tennessee- but I don't know how likely something like that is to have happened. It would explain the weird name and initials possibly hiding a Cherokee name, though, in trying to pass as white.

I think it's more likely though that William J Crawford in his 1894 marriage was just putting his mom's race down as Cherokee to try to prove ancestry to get a free Indian land grant from the Dawes Commission (which was established a year before). Literally tens of thousands of whites tried to falsely prove Native American ancestry to the Commission to get a land grant.

Not saying she doesn't actually have Native American ancestry or anything; being a white person from Oklahoma she's probably got 1/32 ancestry from some relative anyway. This probably isn't the source, though.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on June 01, 2012, 01:04:25 AM
You know what? When I was about 27, my aunt told me that I'm 1/32 Cherokee. I've never seen any paperwork that proves it, but I believe her.

So if I say I'm 1/32 Cherokee, does that mean I'm "lying" just because I haven't seen the documentation?


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Kevin on June 01, 2012, 02:25:16 AM
You know what? When I was about 27, my aunt told me that I'm 1/32 Cherokee. I've never seen any paperwork that proves it, but I believe her.

So if I say I'm 1/32 Cherokee, does that mean I'm "lying" just because I haven't seen the documentation?


No but it doesn't mean you have the right to go around calling yourself a Native American.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Joe Republic on June 01, 2012, 03:22:15 AM
Oh my god who even gives a flying fuck about this


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on June 01, 2012, 11:05:18 AM
No but it doesn't mean you have the right to go around calling yourself a Native American.

According to the Census Bureau, I would. I might not meet the Cherokees' blood quantum, but I'd meet the Census Bureau's definition of Native American, as long as I identified as such.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Vosem on June 01, 2012, 02:35:57 PM
When she told Harvard she was Native American is beside the point. She claimed she never did so, but in actuality she did, even if it wasn't exactly at the time most people assumed. She lied.

When did she ever claim she wasn't part Native American?

She never claimed she wasn't part Native American, but she did claim she was unaware that Harvard had registered her as Native American until recently admitting (krazen posted a link) that she had told the university she was Native American.

The only thing the article proves is that she was telling the truth all along.

That article clearly demonstrates that she lied.

Go ahead. Live in denial. The proof she told the truth is right there in plain sight.

Have you even looked at the article? She lied about registering as a Native American. She said she didn't, but she did.

No but it doesn't mean you have the right to go around calling yourself a Native American.

According to the Census Bureau, I would. I might not meet the Cherokees' blood quantum, but I'd meet the Census Bureau's definition of Native American, as long as I identified as such.

I have an ethnically Greek friend who identifies as 'Other' because he thinks it will help him get into a college. He's encouraged me (I am Ashkenazi Jewish, but have very dark skin) to also do so.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on June 01, 2012, 02:38:03 PM
Have you even looked at the article? She lied about registering as a Native American. She said she didn't, but she did.

I give up. Some people are just thick-skulled.


Title: Re: Elizabeth Warren's "Pocahontas" Problem?
Post by: Vosem on June 01, 2012, 02:46:09 PM
I give up. Some people are just thick-skulled.

I am going to sig this.