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General Discussion => History => Topic started by: Mechaman on May 06, 2012, 12:25:36 pm



Title: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Mechaman on May 06, 2012, 12:25:36 pm
Other: They are all fascists.


Title: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Redalgo on May 06, 2012, 01:19:18 pm
None, though most espoused positions that would allow for a lot of comparing and contrasting.


Title: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Nice Guy FF on May 06, 2012, 01:33:59 pm
Other: They are all fascists.

Why the hell did you bump this? I expected better from you. You having a bad day or something?


Title: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Redalgo on May 06, 2012, 01:39:29 pm
Other: They are all fascists.

Why the hell did you bump this? I expected better from you. You having a bad day or something?

It's pertinent to a lulz-worthy chat in the IRC channel last night. Alas, I have no logs of it to share!


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Nice Guy FF on May 06, 2012, 05:05:25 pm
What happened to the original thread?


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Jackson on May 06, 2012, 08:20:08 pm
What happened to the original thread?

It was a BRTD thread. Guess.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Deputy GM R2D2 on May 06, 2012, 08:40:56 pm
Dubya was definitely one.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: cavalcade on May 06, 2012, 09:18:18 pm
I'd nominate Jackson, Polk, Lincoln, Wilson, and Bush II as possibilities.

Jackson most so, I would guess.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: True Federalist on May 06, 2012, 09:52:12 pm
What happened to the original thread?

Your moderator separated the new and old stuff into separate threads and locked the old thread.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: PR on May 06, 2012, 11:18:50 pm
*insert obligatory comment about the use of the term "fascist" being taken out of its historical context yet again*...


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: shua on May 07, 2012, 12:04:21 am
I think TR comes the closest in holding to elements of fascism: machismo, militarism, national organic unity, active (reform) social darwinism. Wilson was influenced by some of these also (not machismo of course), and FDR  (like many Americans of the time) had some admiration for Mussolini's program and implemented corporatism. However, all believed basically in a democratic form of government, and fascism as a full fledged ideology was never promoted by any administration in the way it was in some European countries.

I don't see fascism as influential for any other president besides these.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: A Strange Reflection on May 07, 2012, 01:34:10 pm
It would be nice if people stopped using the term fascist as a synonym for "politician they don't like".


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Nice Guy FF on May 07, 2012, 01:41:35 pm
Hey Red, you still think John Adams, William McKinley, Woodrow Wilson, and George W. Bush are fascists?

By the wy, I'd like an honest answer from you, mech.

I say Bush, Obama, and Wilson.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Mechaman on May 07, 2012, 03:12:59 pm
Hey Red, you still think John Adams, William McKinley, Woodrow Wilson, and George W. Bush are fascists?

By the wy, I'd like an honest answer from you, mech.

I say Bush, Obama, and Wilson.

You know some people have jobs and sh*t that prevent them from actively answering any and all demands (which, by the way, you don't have a right to demand anything from me, period) on some randomass political site that I am growing more and more malignant towards every day!

I'll give you as many dishonest answers as I want!

But, BUT, if you are just dying to know, just dying to know my "honest answer", I'll give it to you.

SOON.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Mechaman on May 07, 2012, 04:26:49 pm
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, THE FASCIST PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES!:

1. George Washington: Sent a bunch of troops to enforce his will against a bunch of Appalachian Scots-Irish (whatever the hell that term means) farmers who protested the Whiskey Tax=FASCIST!
2. John Adams: Uuuuuummmmmm, Aliens and Sedition Act!  Heeeeeello!  Did you sleep in history class or something?!=FASCIST!
3. Thomas Jefferson: Tripled the size of the United States, had grand designs for "civilizing" the Injuns, and my god the trade embargo yuck!=FASCIST!
4. James Madison: Got the US into an unnecessary war and was crazy enough to have an army with Andrew Jackson and William Harrison in it=FASCIST!
5. James Monroe: Was President during the so-called "Era of Goodfeelings" that was effectively an era of one party rule=FASCIST!!!!!
6. John Quincy Adams: Exists because of John Adams=FASCIST!
7. Andrew Jackson: REALLY loved to kill people=FASCIST!
8. Martin Van Buren: Was short and was balding, obvious signs of a FASICST!
9. William H. Harrison: Forced a bunch of people to unwilling stand out in the rain during a cold March day for three hours just to hear him give an Inaugural Address=FASCIST!
10. John Tyler: Was an asshole who disagreed with everybody=FASCIST!
11. James Polk: Got us in a war to make sure we kept Texas=FASCIST!
12. Zachary Taylor: Declared war on healthy diets=FASCIST!
13. Millard Fillmore: Is easily confused with that f***ing smart ass duck on the Sunday Morning Cartoon strips in the local newspaper, therefore a FASCIST!
14. Franklin Pierce: Tried to get the US into Cuba almost fifty years before McKinley did=FASCIST!
15. James Buchanan: Tried to kill some Morons Mormons to prove to Justin Morrill that he was indeed a real man=FASCIST!
16. Abraham Lincoln: Drafted a bunch of immigrants off the boats to fight in the Civil War so he could drink all of their whiskey=FASCIST!
17. Andrew Johnson: Tried so hard, desperately hard even, to be John Tyler=FASCIST!
18. Ulysses S. Grant: Was alright with Military Reconstruction on some (admittedly very backwards and racist) states.  See also "corruption"=FASCIST!
19. Rutherford B. Hayes: Hated alcohol so much that he forbid it at the White House and his wife openly bragged and held parties devoted to lemonade lovers=FASCIST!
20. James Garfield: Was from Ohio=FACIST!
21. Chester A. Arthur: Was really born in Canada and his father was an Arishman=FACIST!
22. S. Grover Cleveland: Started a love affair with Great Britain=FASCIST!
23. Benjamin Harrison: Brought forth yet another era of dickwaving high tariffs=FASCIST!
24. S. Grover Cleveland: Really liked to shoot Union members on strike=FASCIST!
25. William McKinley: Really liked protective tariffs AND imperialism=FASCIST!
26. Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt: Had a hardon for a huge navy and machoism=FASCIST!
27. William H. Taft: Killed OVER 9000 "Trusts" while President=FASCIST!
28. Woodrow Wilson: Woodrow Wilson=FASCIST!
29. Warren G. Harding: Was so trusting of his friends and never ever being suspicious of corrupt people to the point of either extreme naivete or FASCISM!
30. Calvin Coolidge: Despite being commonly known as the "wet" candidate in 1924, didn't do anything about Prohibition and was actually *shocker* okay with federal government agents poisoning the alcohol used in illegal brewery operations=FASCIST!
31. Herbert Hoover: Was dedicated more to trade warfare than he was fixing the economy and often claimed, with a smugf** look on his face, how proud he was of the low immigration rates into the US while President=FASCIST!
32. Franklin Roosevelt: OMG he BLEW UP THE GOVERNMENT!  Also, Japanese Internment and attempts at court stacking and OVER 9000% INCOME TAXATION ON TEH RICH!!!  OMG SUPER FASCIST!
33. Harry Truman: Took on the name "Hiroshima" Harry with pride after blowing up tons of Japanese peeps after a translation error.  Also, loved the idea of war with Communists=FASCIST!
34. Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower: Was a god-fearing man and expanded upon the now popular idea that the US should bomb everything and everybody to make the world a more US favorable world=FASCIST!
35. John F. Kennedy: Was Ike's Illegitimate Son=FASCIST!
36. Lyndon Johnson: Looked uglier than a bag of dog sh*t, liked to having public pissing contests, oh and HOW MANY BOYS DID HE KILL YESTERDAY!?=FASCIST!
37. Richard M. Nixon: Took LBJ's plan of killing lots of people by using less people and more airplanes with explosive devices in a carpet formation.  Also, had to cheat to beat GEORGE FREAKING MCGOVERN!  MY GOD WHAT A FASCIST!
38. Gerald Ford: Forgave Richard Nixon!  What a wuss!  AND A FASCIST!
39. James "Jimmy Boy" Carter: Was a fan of federal judges who have a hard on for gun control=FASCIST!
40. Ronald W. Reagan: Loved Apartheid South Africa, loved to bomb nations that were pissed off at us for being interventionist dickheads, loved to bailout failing car corporations, endorsed the idea of infinite deficits and limited revenues, believed that the military budget should be massive despite campaigning on "smaller limited government", actually his entire presidency was one huge experiment in hypocrisy=FASCIST!
41. George HW Bush: The Politically Correct Ronald Reagan=POLITICALLY CORRECT FASCIST!
42. William J. "Slick Willie" Clinton: Ronald Reagan's illegitimate transsexual son.  Liked to conduct "explosive polling", whereby whenever he gets into a controversy he just sends in some fighter jets to bomb a randomass Sudanese sugar producing factory to raise his approval ratings.  Also, was such a huge ass moderate hero fascist that he was both in favor of Gun Control and Defending Marriage=FASCIST!
43. George Dumbya Bush: Liked the smell of napalm in the morning and American nationalism and threatening nations with WAR!=FASCIST!
44. Barack H. Obama=the White Bill Clinton=FASCIST!

So there you have it ladies and gentlemen, THE FORTY FOUR FASCIST PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Nice Guy FF on May 07, 2012, 04:48:22 pm
:)


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: A Strange Reflection on May 07, 2012, 04:58:19 pm
It would be nice if people stopped using the term fascist as a synonym for "politician they don't like".

I'm glad to see you found an intelligent and sarcastic way to make the same point as me. ;)


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Deputy GM R2D2 on May 07, 2012, 05:00:27 pm
I seriously think Mechaman should run for public office in Oklahoma.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Cath on May 07, 2012, 06:53:51 pm
I seriously think Mechaman should run for public office in Oklahoma.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Mikestone8 on May 08, 2012, 04:39:27 pm
What does "Fascist" mean?


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: Deputy GM R2D2 on May 08, 2012, 04:42:48 pm
What does "Fascist" mean?

As far as I understand it, fascism is the idea of an authoritarian government oppressing its people to the benefit of one group of people. See Germany, with Aryans benefiting from the deaths of millions of Jews.

I may be wrong in my interpretation, however.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: sjoyce on May 08, 2012, 06:18:35 pm
I seriously think Mechaman should run for public office in Oklahoma.

Ya know, Rep. Boren's retiring...


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: shua on May 14, 2012, 01:43:40 pm
What does "Fascist" mean?

As far as I understand it, fascism is the idea of an authoritarian government oppressing its people to the benefit of one group of people. See Germany, with Aryans benefiting from the deaths of millions of Jews.

I may be wrong in my interpretation, however.
It's not really about one group benefiting from another. Fascism tries to create a nation with a singular cultural, economic, and political identity. The Nazis believed that getting rid of the Jews was necessary for this to happen.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: True Federalist on May 14, 2012, 05:28:30 pm
Depending upon which tenets one considers to be essential to fascism, one can argue that the dominant political philosophy of 19th century America was democratic fascismManifest destiny was highly nationalistic. presumed that American culture was superior to both that of the aboriginal inhabitants and that of our neighbors Canada and Mexico. In the words of the fourth stanza of The Star-Spangled Banner, "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto" 'In God Is Our Trust.' "


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: shua on May 14, 2012, 09:24:36 pm
Quote
Depending upon which tenets one considers to be essential to fascism, one can argue that the dominant political philosophy of 19th century America was democratic fascismManifest destiny was highly nationalistic. presumed that American culture was superior to both that of the aboriginal inhabitants and that of our neighbors Canada and Mexico. In the words of the fourth stanza of The Star-Spangled Banner, "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto" 'In God Is Our Trust.' "
fascism wouldn't contain this qualification.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: True Federalist on May 14, 2012, 11:38:42 pm
Quote
Depending upon which tenets one considers to be essential to fascism, one can argue that the dominant political philosophy of 19th century America was democratic fascismManifest destiny was highly nationalistic. presumed that American culture was superior to both that of the aboriginal inhabitants and that of our neighbors Canada and Mexico. In the words of the fourth stanza of The Star-Spangled Banner, "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto" 'In God Is Our Trust.' "
fascism wouldn't contain this qualification.
Fascism thinks their cause is just.  It's why for example Hitler didn't want to fight Britain.  He didn't view it as a just war since England too was an Aryan nation in his view.  While it would be horrible to contemplate, I think Hitler would have been quite willing to not only negotiate a peace with Britain after the Fall of France, but also to honor it.  Whether his successors would have is a different matter.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: shua on May 15, 2012, 12:47:26 am
Quote
Depending upon which tenets one considers to be essential to fascism, one can argue that the dominant political philosophy of 19th century America was democratic fascismManifest destiny was highly nationalistic. presumed that American culture was superior to both that of the aboriginal inhabitants and that of our neighbors Canada and Mexico. In the words of the fourth stanza of The Star-Spangled Banner, "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto" 'In God Is Our Trust.' "
fascism wouldn't contain this qualification.
Fascism thinks their cause is just.  It's why for example Hitler didn't want to fight Britain.  He didn't view it as a just war since England too was an Aryan nation in his view.  While it would be horrible to contemplate, I think Hitler would have been quite willing to not only negotiate a peace with Britain after the Fall of France, but also to honor it.  Whether his successors would have is a different matter.
My understanding is that Hitler wanted Britain to come under Nazi rule to become part of the Aryan dominion, but would have preferred to do it without war against them. The justice of the cause was considered a given because there was no higher law beyond the interest of the Aryan nation, and the Nazi regime embodied that interest.


Title: Re: How many fascist Presidents have we had? (2012 edition)
Post by: TNF on May 15, 2012, 09:54:37 am
Zero.