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Title: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on May 06, 2012, 08:40:25 PM http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/06/478786/biden-marriage
So bets on when Obama does? I'll say February 2013. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on May 06, 2012, 08:48:41 PM Probably when he's in his second term, when he's more "flexible." :P
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on May 06, 2012, 08:51:19 PM I don't understand why this is such a huge deal.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook on May 06, 2012, 08:59:38 PM Welcome to the right side of history, Joe.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Ogre Mage on May 06, 2012, 09:04:59 PM Good for Joe.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Lief 🗽 on May 06, 2012, 10:34:20 PM Obama should endorse gay marriage in his DNC speech.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: HappyWarrior on May 06, 2012, 10:48:29 PM One more reason I love Joe Biden and no matter his age I'll be hoping he runs for President in 2016.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on May 06, 2012, 11:05:29 PM The spin is that Biden still has exactly Obama's position that those who are married should have equal rights, but they don't necessarily support allowing those who aren't married to marry. Obama's moderate heroism is pretty lame.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: HST1948 on May 06, 2012, 11:12:00 PM Good for Joe. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: LastVoter on May 06, 2012, 11:25:37 PM One more reason I love Joe Biden and no matter his age I'll be hoping he runs for President in 2016. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Tender Branson on May 07, 2012, 12:14:52 AM Good strategy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: greenforest32 on May 07, 2012, 02:17:53 AM Obama's endorsement of this issue is really going to look cheap considering his path: in support, opposed, "evolving" for 2-3 years, support.
Pretty unprincipled... Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: LastVoter on May 07, 2012, 03:35:44 AM I should say this is a positive development, I am happy that Mr. Biden isn't afraid of the gayz. I'm guessing this is a strategy to court voters that think that Obama is not far left enough.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: opebo on May 07, 2012, 04:48:22 PM Joe Biden does strike me as a man very confident and comfortable with his own sexuality - and thus tolerant of others.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Joe Republic on May 07, 2012, 08:05:49 PM Education Secretary Arne Duncan jumps onboard:
Quote from: http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/05/education-secretary-arne-duncan-declares-clear-support-for-gay-marriage/teBT8BT9gLmxS56Dwi76sI/index.html Asked during an appearance on MSNBC whether he believes same-sex couples should be allowed to marry in the United States, Duncan gave a straight answer: “Yes I do.” The Secretary of Education? Supporting the gays?! Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!?! Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 07, 2012, 08:43:47 PM http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/06/478786/biden-marriage So bets on when Obama does? I'll say February 2013. February 2015. Dude has a midterm election to get through. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 07, 2012, 09:36:40 PM I should say this is a positive development, I am happy that Mr. Biden isn't afraid of the gayz. I'm guessing this is a strategy to court voters that think that Obama is not far left enough. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on May 07, 2012, 10:42:54 PM Indeed, Biden should be happy he is the Vice President of Obama and not of Cameron or he would be in danger of being bounced from the ticket over this.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Хahar 🤔 on May 08, 2012, 01:10:13 AM I would vote for Joe Biden for President.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2012, 08:04:40 AM http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/06/478786/biden-marriage So bets on when Obama does? I'll say February 2013. February 2015. Dude has a midterm election to get through. Yeah, but at that point the Republicans will be out in force so he needs to boost his own base, so he'll come out before then. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on May 08, 2012, 08:28:45 AM I would vote for Joe Biden for President. You know, compared to the lot that ran this time......I would too. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: NY Jew on May 08, 2012, 09:12:17 AM I never thought Biden would come up with a stupider "thought (of course it a very popular stupid idea) then this winner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnKcRo8DNYY but 2 men "marrying" each other takes the record for the dumbest Biden statement. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: k-onmmunist on May 08, 2012, 09:47:59 AM I never thought Biden would come up with a stupider "thought (of course it a very popular stupid idea) then this winner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnKcRo8DNYY but 2 men "marrying" each other takes the record for the dumbest Biden statement. Because the idea of two consenting and responsible adults of the same sex marrying is SO stupid. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on May 08, 2012, 10:19:18 AM ...as it was in the days of Lot, even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: NY Jew on May 08, 2012, 10:22:08 AM I never thought Biden would come up with a stupider "thought (of course it a very popular stupid idea) then this winner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnKcRo8DNYY but 2 men "marrying" each other takes the record for the dumbest Biden statement. Because the idea of two consenting and responsible adults of the same sex marrying is SO stupid. yes it is when it defies the meaning of the word. websters dictionary Quote 1. To unite in wedlock or matrimony; to perform the ceremony of joining, as a man and a woman, for life; to constitute (a man and a woman) husband and wife according to the laws or customs of the place. [imp. & p. p. Married ; p. pr. & vb. n. Marrying.] Tell him that he shall marry the couple himself. - Gay. 2. To join according to law, (a man) to a woman as his wife, or (a woman) to a man as her husband. See the Note to def. 4. A woman who had been married to her twenty-fifth husband, and being now a widow, was prohibited to marry. - Evelyn. 3. To dispose of in wedlock; to give away as wife. Mæcenas took the liberty to tell him [Augustus] that he must either marry his daughter [Julia] to Agrippa, or take away his life. - Bacon. 4. To take for husband or wife. See the Note below. They got him [the Duke of Monmouth] . . . to declare in writing, that the last king [Charles II.] told him he was never married to his mother. - Bp. Lloyd. 5. Figuratively, to unite in the closest and most endearing relation. Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you. - Jer. iii. 14. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: TJ in Oregon on May 08, 2012, 10:24:23 AM Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on May 08, 2012, 11:08:18 AM Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language. then be honest - you want to redefine marriage. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: TJ in Oregon on May 08, 2012, 11:23:39 AM Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language. then be honest - you want to redefine marriage. I never said I wanted to, just that it could be done by the standard he's presenting. That's a huge difference. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: opebo on May 08, 2012, 11:49:42 AM ...as it was in the days of Lot, even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. You mean they had a nice Vice President then too? Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Brittain33 on May 08, 2012, 12:17:05 PM Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language. then be honest - you want to redefine marriage. There's a long tradition of redefining marriage, starting from the creation of civil marriage, the change in women's status from property to equal partner, changing views on divorce, the allowance of interfaith marriages, development of marriage for love, development of marriage for seniors, and the legalization of interracial marriage. Within the current definition of marriage, allowing same-sex unions to be counted is not as dramatic as other changes. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on May 08, 2012, 12:47:22 PM Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language. then be honest - you want to redefine marriage. There's a long tradition of redefining marriage, starting from the creation of civil marriage, the change in women's status from property to equal partner, changing views on divorce, the allowance of interfaith marriages, development of marriage for love, development of marriage for seniors, and the legalization of interracial marriage. Within the current definition of marriage, allowing same-sex unions to be counted is not as dramatic as other changes. dude, those are NOT changes to the definition of marriage, for there are thousands of years of history. Heck, you can find examples of everything bolded, even in the bible. Historically, you had recognition of marriages without a certificate of marriage (the couple simply had to present themselves to the public as husband and wife), marriages between seniors, marriages between the races. Though, I have no idea what you mean by “development of marriage for love”…as if marrying for love’s sake is something new…as if it was always forced and pre-arranged? Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on May 08, 2012, 01:13:32 PM It was certainly considered a type of business contract in most civilizations. Maybe among the peasantry there was greater leeway but that's certainly not normative in the historical record.
Marriage really isn't one of those things that you can present as normative from and for eternity (at least, not from a historical perspective; from a religious perspective you certainly can if you're not hung up on the historical perspective) without going through some pretty convoluted retroactive redefinition anyway. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on May 08, 2012, 01:41:54 PM It was certainly considered a type of business contract in most civilizations. Maybe among the peasantry there was greater leeway but that's certainly not normative in the historical record. Marriage really isn't one of those things that you can present as normative from and for eternity (at least, not from a historical perspective; from a religious perspective you certainly can if you're not hung up on the historical perspective) without going through some pretty convoluted retroactive redefinition anyway. are you saying the bible doesn't view marriage as a contract of love? Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Oakvale on May 08, 2012, 02:13:22 PM Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States?
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on May 08, 2012, 02:20:27 PM Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States? Aside from taxes and health insurance and all the privileges married couples enjoy? Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on May 08, 2012, 02:22:44 PM Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States? Aside from taxes and health insurance and all the privileges married couples enjoy? actually, for the vast majority of cases, there is a tax penalty for being married. and, what, exactly are these "privileges"? Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: greenforest32 on May 08, 2012, 02:37:43 PM Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States? Main legal difference is recognition I believe. There has been no compact for states to recognize other states' civil unions like there has been for marriage (in addition to making the federal government not recognize any same-sex marriage, the federal DOMA law also said states can choose to avoid to recognize other states' marriages if it is between a same-sex couple) and there are many federal legal rights and benefits (such as spousal/survivor Social Security benefits) that civil unions will not confer unless the statutes are rewritten to include civil unions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on May 08, 2012, 02:39:17 PM It was certainly considered a type of business contract in most civilizations. Maybe among the peasantry there was greater leeway but that's certainly not normative in the historical record. Marriage really isn't one of those things that you can present as normative from and for eternity (at least, not from a historical perspective; from a religious perspective you certainly can if you're not hung up on the historical perspective) without going through some pretty convoluted retroactive redefinition anyway. are you saying the bible doesn't view marriage as a contract of love? Well, I mean, that's normative within the Bible, certainly, but it's hard to argue that it's the case with every specific marriage presented or discussed. I'm not really discussing the Bible here anyway, more the general way things were structured in ancient societies (and many modern societies, for that matter). Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 08, 2012, 03:04:07 PM Marriage for love as an ideal has always existed, though other concerns have often taken precedence.
Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on May 08, 2012, 03:14:35 PM Marriage for love as an ideal has always existed, though other concerns have often taken precedence. Exactly. What constitutes that ideal is culturally specific, as is how frequently it's upheld, but that core has always been there. The point is that practically nothing else, certainly nothing of the practice, has been universal. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook on May 08, 2012, 03:57:11 PM ...as it was in the days of Noah, even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on May 08, 2012, 04:09:26 PM ...as it was in the days of are you serious? it wasn't a quote, it was a paraphrase, here is the actual quote: Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed". So, either way you slice it, my statement may not have been verbatim, but it was still accurate. Title: Re: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on May 09, 2012, 11:00:20 PM http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/06/478786/biden-marriage So bets on when Obama does? I'll say February 2013. February 2015. Dude has a midterm election to get through. Well we both were quite off. |