Talk Elections

Egypt leader Morsi orders army chief Tantawi to resign

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Relations between Mr Mursi (left) and Field Marshal Tantawi (right) have been tense

Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi has ordered the retirement of the powerful head of the country's armed forces, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, a presidential spokesman has said.

No explanation has so far been given.

President Mursi, who was elected in June, is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Relations between the Brotherhood and the military have been tense since the fall of President Hosni Mubarak last year.

It is not clear whether the president has the power to sack the head of the armed forces, or whether Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi will accept the move.

Before Mr Mursi was sworn in, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (Scaf) stripped the presidency of many of its powers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19234763

Like Turkey, only faster.

When does this take effect?

Dead0man's opposition to the subjection of the military to civilian rule is really terrifying in light of the fact that he's part of the Armed Forces.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Dead0man's concern that civillian government might hinder his safety/the militaries efficiency, but it is a two way street. The military in most countries (not the USA, unless martial law is enacted) is more of a threat than a protector to its peoples liberties. But for members of the armed forces to support the reversal of roles, is indeed scary.

I in no way think the US Military should be in charge of the US.  I hope civilian rule works out in Turkey and Egypt.  I'm certainly not against it, but it does concern me as it should concern anybody that wants peace in the middle east.

Government by an elite unchosen by the people only amounts to a ceasefire and radicalizes civilian opponents to peace. You can only have true peace when you either force it by long brutal occupation or by the consent of an elected government.

Internal peace maybe, but not regional peace if that elected govt declares war on it's neighbors (or allows jerkwads to attack it's neighbors while the govt gives lip service that they are trying to stop it).

This is a good thing.

The question is what the military's next move is going to be.

Mursi has beat my expectations so far. Hopefully he is successful in ending the dictatorship, in spite of the billions of dollars of U.S. "aid" against it.

I don't care how horrible the Brotherhood's ideology is. They won the election fair and square, and they get to govern on their own. If they turn out to be sh*tty rulers, they will be voted out next time. But people who support an old, corrupt junta of wannabe dictators because they see them as a "lesser evil" just don't get it.

Looks like Tantawi and the military may have gone along with this to escape prosecution:

http://world.time.com/2012/08/12/has-egypts-muslim-brotherhood-staged-a-coup-against-the-military/


Also, can someone explain what the current state of play is on the reinstatement of parliament?  The courts dissolved parliament, because they said there was a constitutional problem with how the election was conducted, and SCAF then claimed legislative powers for itself until a new parliament is elected.  Morsi then tried to reinstate them, but they only met for one day to formally lodge a complaint to the judiciary about being reinstated, and I'm not sure what the state of play is there.  According to that Time article, Morsi is now claiming legislative powers for himself, and also taking control of the constitutional committee:


So yes, Morsi won the presidential election, and I'm glad that he's taking power away from the generals, but is he just doing it to grant himself dictatorial powers, with no checks from other branches of government?

Morsi ought to take a note from Andrew Jackson's sleeve and throw out the court on the basis of it being a vestige of the Mubarak dictatorship, then reinstate parliament.

My somewhat significant other who is a Coptic Christian, expressed deep worry today.

Tantawi's really going? I honestly thought this was going to be a "Mister Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it" case.

Yes, Tantawi's really going:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/12/egyptian-defence-chief-ousted-shakeup?newsfeed=true


Now the battle will be between the Muslim Brotherhood and the courts.  The constitutional court will probably call most of the constitutional decrees Morsi is issuing to be illegal.

For Morden: Morsi's proposed timetable is that he appoints a new Constitutional Convention over the next two weeks, they produce a document over the course of the following three months, one month later to be followed by a referenda on whether or not to adopt the new constitution, and if the constitution passes, new popular elections would be held two months after the adoption of the new constitution.

That does mean that for the next ~half a year, Morsi would basically be the government, if this timetable is adopted.

This is terrible.  Is there any chance Tantawi will refuse and have a coup d'état?

No. Tantawi's very old and likely very tired by now.

This is tough to assess, because it looks like Morsi has basically grabbed absolute power for himself on an interim basis until a new constitution and new parliament are in place.  The question is how he's going to use that power.  Is he actually going to try to work with secular liberals to write the new constitution and establish the new system, or shut them out of the game?

"Did Egypt's President Just Make Himself a Dictator?" (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/08/did-egypts-president-just-make-himself-dictator/55698/)

Stuff like this is also less than encouraging:

Egypt TV boss, journalist to be tried for insulting Morsi (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5haKR8L0LFoHJeSh1-F0CannoXPdw?docId=CNG.e73eac565bdf00246753ad8987decb91.7a1)

So Morsi is more like John Adams than Thomas Jefferson?

Now I am more ambivalent toward the situation. It seems that the imperialists are using both the Muslim Brotherhood and the military to hedge their bets:

Pentagon: U.S. to Retain Close Ties with Egypt’s Military (http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120813/DEFREG04/308130005/Pentagon-U-S-Retain-Close-Ties-Egypt-8217-s-Military)