Talk Elections

One thing I've found worrying about the democratic party is its increasing antisemitism. You have people like Gus Savage or Jesse Jackson making incredibly anti Semitic comments and the recognition of Israel taken out of the platform. As I've said earlier, I'm worried about the clients taking over the party. Why do they have to act like a bunch of ingrates? Do they not know that american Jews have played a crucial role in liberal victories such as the civil rights act or the right to choose?

So the idea is that pro-Israel but otherwise liberal democrats (like a Lieberman or Koch type) should form a third party. Such a party I think would be viable and could win over a lot of guilty evangelical Christians that normally vote republican.

Not likely to happen.

ain't two enough?

I don't know about the specific comments to which you are referring, so I can't comment directly on those.  However - be careful with your analysis, while the staunch right wing Israeli party Likud and their crony lobbyists in Washington would have you believe otherwise - being anti-Israel/anti-Zionism DOES NOT inherently equate to anti-Jew.

I abhor the state (NOT the people) of Israel, and am staunchly anti-Zionism, much like these groups of individuals:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ (Jews against Zionism)
http://www.nkusa.org/ (Neturei Karta, another Jewish, anti-Zionism organization)

Actually, one of the many reasons I'm against Zionism is because I believe it is very bad for the Jewish community, in terms of how the Zionist movement has created antagonisms between Muslims and Jews which didn't previously exist (during the inquisition, the Muslims were the only friends they had!).  I'm no holocaust denier, I hate fascism, neo-nazism, and any form of ethnocentrism or racism, I'm extremely concerned for the welfare of Jewish individuals, and am vehemently opposed and disgusted by antisemitism.  

That being said, I just recognize that the existence of that state has created far more problems than solutions, and that the right wing government of Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity.

But if I go out in public and say I'm against the Israeli government, or particularly if I were a notable person, I'd get RAILED for hating Jews - when the OPPOSITE is true!  I'm just wondering if those comments they made are the kind I would make, rather than anti-Jewish comments.  My distaste for Israel is a distaste for a certain state apparatus.  NOT for Jews, in ANY sense.  I support the movements in Israel for peace and those Israelis which comprise of that movement, just as I support the Palestinian peace movement (and equally abhor terrorism as a response to Israel's war crimes).

And really, there's no need for a pro-Israeli third party.  Likud has Washington in their back pocket, and the overwhelming majority of elected officials in both parties are Zionist.  To call for a Zionist third party would be like calling for a third party that exists for the sole purpose of being *for* the War on Drugs.  It's not needed, the political currency is already overwhelmingly there.

Oh god, concern trolls

A third pro-Israel Party?  I'd settle for one party that actually a reasonable approach to Palestine.

Let's just cut out all the middle men and inaugurate Bibi while we are at it.

No. K? Thx.

Apparently not.

It would be nice to have a pro-Israel third party in the sense that it would be nice to have a party that corresponds exactly to my political beliefs, but the Democrats are not becoming more anti-Semitic (or more anti-Israel, for that matter) and if they were considering political realities folks like the ones you mentioned would be slowly joining the GOP, not forming a third party which would crash and burn. (I notice that while you mention Lieberman and Koch, you didn't mention the many, many pro-Zionists that remain in the Democratic Party).


I've had a similar conversation with FallenMorgan -- while I don't deny that you're not anti-Semitic, and that anti-Zionism does not necessarily equal anti-Semitism, it's still important for you to understand that the two of them are inextricably linked, particularly in the Arab World where they go hand in hand, but also in the Western World where they are frequently linked, and that it's very difficult to actively support one of the two and not at least provide succor to the other.


Doesn't say much; ask Ettore Ovazza or Lucas Mangope (though obviously those are extreme examples). The vast majority of Jews support Israel (obviously).


Well, Zionism has given Jews a homeland where they actually constitute a majority; their alternative was remaining in areas where anti-Semitic sentiment ran high. I would also argue Arab nationalism is far more responsible than Zionism for creating antagonisms, but that's all history; it's over and finished with and the main characters are all sleeping in their graves...


Good.  


This, on the other hand, is debatable at best.


Because many (I want to say a majority, but I don't know where I'd find actual statistical evidence, so I won't) notable anti-Zionists are anti-Semites, obviously doing so would bring suspicion of anti-Semitism on you.


Wouldn't we have recognized East Jerusalem as being part of Israel (at the very least) if this were true?

I'd settle for a centrist party that would likely be pro-Israel like the vast majority of people in this country.

As a socially liberal, economically conservative Hawk, it's a lonely day in politics.

OP actually has a good idea folks.  A pro-Israel Christian left third party would be a good way to bring social conservatives toward the center economically and end the whole "voting against self interest" thing in poor rural areas.  It would end the Republican party from using wedge issues to force gridlock and allow moderates and libertarians to thrive in that party.

Anti-semites, all of you!

i'll just leave this here
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/the-democrats-are-tom-friedmans-conservative-party/

gotta chill on the empty quoting guys.

Trollin'.

ha, didnt read much of OP and this one snuck past me. Sneaky racialism.

Also, anybody here up for the idea of a pro-Justice/Israel & Palestine should be treated fairly and equally third party?

Why do we need more pandering to the Zionists?

Maybe we should have an anti-Israel third party... ::)

ok folks - I do like to think my reply was clever, but is it really ziggurat material?

Recognition and protection of Israel should be removed from the platform.

It might even get a couple of percentage points of the Jewish vote. But, then, it won't be the third party - more like the thirty-third :))

I've got a better idea. How about a pro-Liechtenstein (anti-Czechoslovak) third party?

Actually I'd favor amending the party platform to cease diplomatic recognition of Liechtenstein in solidarity with the Czechs and Slovaks for their glorious stand.

I didn't know you were a bourgeois (as in anti-feudal) rebolutionary :))