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Title: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Statute) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 02, 2012, 01:38:07 PM Quote Mideast Budget 2012 Sponsor: Tmthforu94Revenue: Revenue: Amount Income Taxes: $37.2 B Social Insurance Taxes: $24.4 B "Ad Valorum" Taxes: $110.6 B Fees: $43.3 B Regional Lottery: $4.5 B Contest Winnings Tax: $0.9 B Business and Other: $84.9 B TOTAL: $305.8 B --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total Budget: $304.44 billion Spending ($232.71 billion) *(No change) does NOT denote changing in spending levels from RL to this budget. It's really there for the next budget so we can copy this first budget, change the numbers, and then off to the side put the positive/negative change since the preceeding budget. Energy ($5.75 billion) $3 Billion ...... Loans to be granted to energy companies that have a responsible environmental track record, are seriously attempting to develop clean energy alternatives, push for energy efficiency and/or have an approved plan to do so. $1 Billion ...... Fund for alternative energy $1 Billion ...... Updating the Mideast's current energy infrastructure $0.5 Billion ...... Refitting all government buildings to run on clean energy $0.25 Billion ...... Refitting all government vehicles (cars, planes, etc.) to run on clean energy) Natural resources and environment ($5.21 billion) $2.61 billion ...... Water resources (No Change) $0.57 billion ...... Conservation and land management (No Change) $0.42 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources (No Change) $1.11 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement (No Change) $0.5 billion ....... Other natural resources (No Change) Agriculture ($4.04 billion) $2.95 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change) $1.09 billion ...... Agricultural research and services (No Change) Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($1.95 billion) $0.34 billion ..... Housing Loan Programs (No Change) $0.02 billion ..... Deposit insurance (No Change) $1.36 billion ...... Universal service fund (No Change) $0.23 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce (No Change) Transportation ($23.25 billion) $9.00 billion ..... Highways and highway safety (No Change) $4.00 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change) $0.25 billion ...... Railroads (No Change) $2.05 billion ..... Air Transportation (No Change) $1.05 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change) $0.45 billion ...... Other transportation (No Change) $6.45 billion ..... Non-Highway Roads (No Change) Community and regional development ($4.39 billion) $2.50 billion ...... Community development (No Change) $0.96 billion ...... Area and regional development (No Change) $0.93 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change) Education ($69.32 billion) $41.32 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change) $20.00 billion ..... Higher education (No Change) $8.00 billion ...... Research and general education (No Change) Training, labor and unemployment ($9.37 billion) $4.34 billion ...... Training and employment (No Change) $0.2 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration (No Change) $4.83 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change) Health Spending ($14.08 billion) $2.23 billion ...... Substance abuse and mental health services (No Change) $0.70 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism (No Change) $8.45 billion ..... Health research and training (No Change) $1.50 billion ...... Food safety and occupational health and safety (No Change) $0.20 billion ..... Other health care services (No Change) $1.00 billion ...... Health care fraud (No Change) Civilian Retirement ($41.50 billion) $1.0 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance (No Change) $29.50 billion ..... Mideast employee retirement and disability (No Change) $11.00 billion ...... Mideast employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change) Aid to Low-Income Families ($25.00 billion) $6.01 billion ..... Housing assistance (No Change) $4.33 billion ..... Food stamps (No Change) $2.3 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches) (No Change) $3.33 billion ..... Family support payments (TANF) (No Change) $7.01 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change) $0.85 billion ..... Child tax credit (No Change) $0.99 billion ....... Child care funds (No Change) $0.18 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families (No Change) General Family Support ($5.39 billion) $1.32 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance (No Change) $0.33 billion ...... Child support and family support programs (No Change) $3.74 billion ..... Social and family services (No Change) Administration of justice ($20.45 billion) $11.35 billion ..... Regional law enforcement and security (No Change) $5.21 billion ..... Regional litigation and judicial activities (No Change) $2.89 billion ...... Regional prison system (No Change) $1.00 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change) General government administration ($3.01 billion) $0.31 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change) $0.10 billion ...... Executive office programs (No Change) $2.05 billion ....... Fiscal operations (No Change) $0.55 billion ...... Other general government (No Change) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts ($71.73 billion) Corporate Tax Breaks ($7.53 billion) $3.5 billion ...... R&D Tax Breaks (No Change) $1.01 billion ...... Energy, Mining and Timber Tax Breaks (No Change) $2.03 billion ...... Tax Free Bonds (No Change) $0.99 billion ..... Other Corporate Tax Breaks (No Change) Personal Business & Investment Benefits ($4.69 billion) $3.80 billion ..... Tax-Free Bonds (No Change) $0.56 billion ...... Enterprise & Empowerment Zones and New Markets credit (No Change) $0.33 billion ....... Other personal investment tax breaks (No Change) Pension & Retirement Deductions ($26.08 billion) $10.05 billion ..... Employer-paid Pensions (No Change) $7.05 billion ..... 401Ks & Keogh plans (No Change) $1.50 billion ...... IRAs (No Change) $6.62 billion ..... Group and personal life insurance benefits (No Change) $0.86 billion ...... Other retirement benefits (No Change) Health Insurance Tax Benefits ($12.14 billion) $5.30 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance (No Change) $1.03 billion ...... Self-employed medical insurance premiums (No Change) $4.70 billion ...... Medical Savings/Health Savings Accounts (No Change) $1.11 billion ...... Deductibility of medical expenses (No Change) Housing tax benefits ($8.67 billion) $2.75 billion ..... Mortgage Interest (No Change) $1.50 billion ..... Deductibility of property taxes on homes (No Change) $3.51 billion ..... Exclusion of net imputed rental income on owner-occupied homes (No Change) $0.91 billion ...... Housing bonds & low-income housing investments (No Change) Other individual deductions and exemptions ($12.62 billion) $1.81 billion ..... Charitable contributions (No Change) $1.91 billion ..... Local taxes (w/o home property) (No Change) $0.56 billion ...... Workmen's compensation (No Change) $3.33 billion ..... Education deductions and credits (No Change) $1.31 billion ..... Child credit (No Change) $1.38 billion ...... Child care credits and deductions (No Change) $0.46 billion ......... Deduction for the blind and elderly (No Change) $0.41 billion ...... Employee parking and transit expenses (No Change) $0.35 billion ...... Adoption and foster care tax credits (No Change) $0.80 billion ...... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)- revenue loss component (No Change) $0.30 billion ...... Other fringe benefits (No Change) ---------- Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 1% $13,001 - $40,000 1.5% $40,001 - $100,000 2.2% $100,001 - $180,000 2.7% $180,001 - $300,000 3.25% $300,001 - $750,000 4% $750,001 - $2,750,000 5% $2,750,001- $9,999,999 6.5% $10,000,000+ 1.5% Employer conributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $50,000 0.5% $50,001 - $75,000 1% $75,001 - $125,000 1.5% $125,001 - $350,000 2% $350,001 - $1,000,000 2.5% $1,000,001 - $10,000,000 3.25% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Sales Tax Rate: 6% (Groceries, prescription drugs exempt) Excise Taxes: Gas: 45 cents/gallon (50 cents/gallon for diesel). Cigarettes: $1.60 per pack. Other Tobacco Products: 55% Manufactures Price Distilled Spirits: $2.70 per gallon Wine: $0.30 per gallon Beer: $0.30 per gallon Marijuana: 25% sales tax Projected Surplus: $1.36 B Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 02, 2012, 05:16:08 PM The proposed corporate and regional income tax-rates are much too low, at least if we want a balanced budget.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 02, 2012, 06:12:55 PM We could have a flat income tax rate. That is what many states in America do. Maybe 5%? That's about an average tax for Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, etc.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 02, 2012, 06:21:04 PM We could have a flat income tax rate. That is what many states in America do. Maybe 5%? That's about an average tax for Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, etc. The problem with that is that someone making $1,000,000 per-year should be taxed more than a person making $13,000 per-year. A flat tax would put an unfair burden on the poor. If one person has eight cars and another has one car, the first person is being asked to sacrifice much less if everyone loses one car. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 02, 2012, 06:22:00 PM Income taxes are already extremely high from the federal government.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 02, 2012, 06:25:19 PM Income taxes are already extremely high from the federal government. The answer to excessive federal taxation isn't to deprive the regional government of much needed revenue. If you think the federal rates are too high than you should lobby for them to be lowered at the federal level. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 02, 2012, 07:22:54 PM Income taxes are already extremely high from the federal government. ^^^^ needed revenue. If you think the federal rates are too high than you should lobby for them to be lowered at the federal level. This is a pretty bad argument. To suggest that we should lobby to decrease Federal income taxes just so we can increase regional taxes is ridiculous. Whether it be that the Federal Government is taxing you 99% and the Region is taxing you 1% (or vice versa) you're still paying 100%. The only difference is which level of Government will waste the money. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 02, 2012, 07:37:55 PM I would also be in favor of raising taxes on upper income levels and even adding more brackets. The corporate tax rate could also be raised a little bit, but not too much more then its current rate.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 02, 2012, 07:55:50 PM Income taxes are already extremely high from the federal government. ^^^^ needed revenue. If you think the federal rates are too high than you should lobby for them to be lowered at the federal level. This is a pretty bad argument. To suggest that we should lobby to decrease Federal income taxes just so we can increase regional taxes is ridiculous. Whether it be that the Federal Government is taxing you 99% and the Region is taxing you 1% (or vice versa) you're still paying 100%. The only difference is which level of Government will waste the money. I'm not saying that I agree with the argument (I agree that it is a terrible one). My point was only that it makes little sense to say we should reduce regional income tax rates because federal income tax rates are too high and that to argue that we should do so relies on very weak reasoning. I was only observing the implication of Governor Tmthforu94's reason for arguing against an increase in the regional income tax rate (unless I somehow misunderstood what he meant, in which case I retract the earlier post). Regardless, the Mideast regional government ultimately needs more revenue if we are going to pass a balanced budget (or even anything close to that). Budget shortfalls are a revenue problem first and a spending problem second (and sometimes only a revenue problem). Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 02, 2012, 07:58:40 PM I would also be in favor of raising taxes on upper income levels and even adding more brackets. The corporate tax rate could also be raised a little bit, but not too much more then its current rate. You're right, there should definitely be more brackets. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 02, 2012, 10:54:50 PM We could have a flat income tax rate. That is what many states in America do. Maybe 5%? That's about an average tax for Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, etc. The problem with that is that someone making $1,000,000 per-year should be taxed more than a person making $13,000 per-year. A flat tax would put an unfair burden on the poor. If one person has eight cars and another has one car, the first person is being asked to sacrifice much less if everyone loses one car. Compared to the American system, our regional tax rates on the lower and middle class are actually lower. Perhaps something like a Missouri system where from income from say $0-10,000, we increase the tax by .5% per $1,000. Anyone making $10,000 or more would pay a flat rate of 5%. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 03, 2012, 05:23:48 AM Let's not complicate the system more by adding more brackets and making the bottom 1% of people pay 1% of their income and the top 1% pay 99%. We should not be looking at income tax increases, nor should we be looking at gasoline tax increases. We cannot seek to make everyday life for middle class Mideasterners more difficult. When gas taxes increase, it does not harm the rich, only the middle class. We must be sane in approaching our budget shortfalls. At this point, we can only cut spending and wait until the economy improves.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 03, 2012, 07:17:52 AM Let's not complicate the system more by adding more brackets and making the bottom 1% of people pay 1% of their income and the top 1% pay 99%. We should not be looking at income tax increases, nor should we be looking at gasoline tax increases. We cannot seek to make everyday life for middle class Mideasterners more difficult. When gas taxes increase, it does not harm the rich, only the middle class. We must be sane in approaching our budget shortfalls. At this point, we can only cut spending and wait until the economy improves. That's actually not a bad idea. I feel like Mr. X said it best: Regardless, the Mideast regional government ultimately needs more revenue if we are going to pass a balanced budget (or even anything close to that). Budget shortfalls are a revenue problem first and a spending problem second (and sometimes only a revenue problem). I'll vote for a few cuts in spending, but for me its going to have to about 2:1 (added revenue vs. less spending) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 03, 2012, 09:09:07 AM That's actually not a bad idea. It actually is a bad idea, because even if we as a region tax the top income bracket about 75% of their income whilst the Federal Government is taxing them 25% of their income, then they have no money! Wee! Then we have loads of poor people and the economy isn't flowing and then we have to tax people to pay for a stimulus to try to get things going but incidentally no one has any money left then the Government has all the money and the citizens have no money so the Government is handing out money to all the poors to try and get the economy going and once it does we're gonna take all that money back? That sounds incredibly absurd to me. I can't possibly envision how that might work in any way, shape or form. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 03, 2012, 09:42:05 AM That's actually not a bad idea. It actually is a bad idea, because even if we as a region tax the top income bracket about 75% of their income whilst the Federal Government is taxing them 25% of their income, then they have no money! Wee! Then we have loads of poor people and the economy isn't flowing and then we have to tax people to pay for a stimulus to try to get things going but incidentally no one has any money left then the Government has all the money and the citizens have no money so the Government is handing out money to all the poors to try and get the economy going and once it does we're gonna take all that money back? That sounds incredibly absurd to me. I can't possibly envision how that might work in any way, shape or form. I was somewhat joking. Yet I do think we can add a few more tax brackets and double the rates of the top income brackets. 6.5% is way to low! Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 03, 2012, 07:04:30 PM I would like to propose that hot groceries be removed from exemption.
I would also like to propose putting the sales tax at an even 6%. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 03, 2012, 07:46:23 PM I would like to propose that hot groceries be removed from exemption. I would also like to propose putting the sales tax at an even 6%. I'm alright with raising the sales tax to 6% as long as regional income taxes are also raised on the upper-brackets, but I am definitely opposed to removing hot groceries from the exemption. Regional Income Taxes for the wealthy must be increased before we consider eliminating important exemptions from the sales tax. Unsustainably low regional income tax rates for the wealthy and unsustainably low corporate tax rates for big business must not be treated as sacred cows, if for no other reason than we simply can't afford it (or at least not if we are serious about passing an even remotely fair and fiscally responsible budget, let alone a balanced budget). Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: California8429 on October 03, 2012, 09:17:51 PM I suggest cutting credits over raising/creating new tax brackets. If you guys are arguing for more tax brackets at the top that is simply ridiculous, we're talking about a handful of people. There's no use creating brackets for some hundred, a hundred, and then ten people in the region.
Federal taxes are burdensome, I strongly recommend you make the Mideast the most competitive region for economic and living purposes by keeping these tax rates. Quote A flat tax would put an unfair burden on the poor. If one person has eight cars and another has one car, the first person is being asked to sacrifice much less if everyone loses one car. I have no problem with open debate and attacks of the flat or fair taxes, but you need to understand what a flat tax is to participate in a debate. A flat tax does not mean everyone pays the same dollar amount, they only pay the same percentage of their income. The rich gives a car, the poor gives a tire, they both don't give up the same dollar value sacrifice. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 03, 2012, 09:50:13 PM I suggest cutting credits over raising/creating new tax brackets. If you guys are arguing for more tax brackets at the top that is simply ridiculous, we're talking about a handful of people. There's no use creating brackets for some hundred, a hundred, and then ten people in the region. Federal taxes are burdensome, I strongly recommend you make the Mideast the most competitive region for economic and living purposes by keeping these tax rates. Quote A flat tax would put an unfair burden on the poor. If one person has eight cars and another has one car, the first person is being asked to sacrifice much less if everyone loses one car. I have no problem with open debate and attacks of the flat or fair taxes, but you need to understand what a flat tax is to participate in a debate. A flat tax does not mean everyone pays the same dollar amount, they only pay the same percentage of their income. The rich gives a car, the poor gives a tire, they both don't give up the same dollar value sacrifice. I know what a flat tax is. Even though the dollar amount is different, a person making $1,000,000 per-year who pays a 5% rate can much more easily afford to pay that 5% than a person who makes $20,000 per-year. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 03, 2012, 10:19:26 PM I would be curious, Mr. X, on your opposition to removing hot groceries. That's how most states do it, Indiana for certain. Believe me, I worked in a grocery store for two years. :)
I would be open to a balanced effort of raising sales taxes, cutting credits, and cutting overall spending. However, I cannot support increasing our income taxes - Mideasterners already have enough pain on this front from the federal government. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 03, 2012, 11:49:25 PM I am opposed to any sales tax increase. I think our best way of raising revenue is making a flat income tax. If we want to add a higher bracket for those making more money, I'd be ok with that within reason; however, we won't eliminate our deficit without raising some taxes on middle class people. A 0.5% tax on 50-70k is practically unheard of in American states.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 12, 2012, 10:50:15 PM Quote Sales Tax Rate: 6% (Groceries (does not include hot groceries), prescription drugs exempt) I would like to debate this amendment, bringing the sales tax up to 6%. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 12, 2012, 11:13:43 PM What we need is a more progressive tax system with more tax brackets.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 13, 2012, 08:31:44 AM What we need is a more progressive tax system with more tax brackets. No, we don't. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 13, 2012, 09:34:28 AM Can we discuss the sales tax for now?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 13, 2012, 11:46:45 AM What we need is a more progressive tax system with more tax brackets. No, we don't. The current tax rates are not fair to the lower and middle classes. The wealthy need to pay there part to help our great region. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 18, 2012, 12:34:01 AM Governor, I'd really like to get some numbers for the current bill from the GM before we keep making changes, if that's all right with you.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 18, 2012, 12:49:40 AM Governor, I'd really like to get some numbers for the current bill from the GM before we keep making changes, if that's all right with you. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 18, 2012, 09:54:39 AM What we need is a more progressive tax system with more tax brackets. No, we don't. The current tax rates are not fair to the lower and middle classes. The wealthy need to pay there part to help our great region. I agree with Assemblyman Gass3268 on this. At the very least, the regional income tax rates (especially for the upper income brackets) need to be increased as do the corporate tax rates (although the regional income tax brackets are a bigger problem). Long story short, we need a more progressive tax system (at least, if we are serious about passing anything close to a fiscally responsible balanced budget). Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 18, 2012, 02:20:31 PM What we need is a more progressive tax system with more tax brackets. No, we don't. The current tax rates are not fair to the lower and middle classes. The wealthy need to pay there part to help our great region. I agree with Assemblyman Gass3268 on this. At the very least, the regional income tax rates (especially for the upper income brackets) need to be increased as do the corporate tax rates (although the regional income tax brackets are a bigger problem). Long story short, we need a more progressive tax system (at least, if we are serious about passing anything close to a fiscally responsible balanced budget). Actually, a flat tax (which is what most states that make up this region use) would get us much closer than a graduated tax system. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 19, 2012, 05:27:20 PM I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%.
Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 20, 2012, 06:26:53 PM I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%. Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support. I will get back to you on this Monday or Tuesday, Assemblyman TexasDem Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 21, 2012, 09:41:02 AM I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%. Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support. Thank you. I look forward to hearing your suggestions. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 21, 2012, 09:28:18 PM Hey guys! Here are some numbers I received from GM Shua that should help move us along (Inks, if you could add these into the budget, that would be great! :)
Quote For the lottery, the revenue would be $4.5 billion, and about another 900 million in taxes from that. Quote The 5.7% sales tax brings in $60.5 billion. Bringing it up to 6% would bring in an additional $3.1 billion. GM Shua is still working on the pension tax. I also am assuming former Governor ZuWo's amendments to cut tax breaks has also been calculated in terms of what our deficit would be. As it stands, once the $5.5 billion(ish) revenue is brought in from the lottery, we're looking at a deficit of around 17 billion. We also have a potential $3.1 billion from bringing the sales tax up to 6%, which would cut the deficit all the way down to $14 billion. We could discuss what we want to do in terms of that. Also, I would recommend that both sides (proponents of the flat tax and progressive tax) submit their proposals on how the income (and corporate) tax rates should be set up, and let's send that to Shua to see how either/or would affect the deficit. Once we have that established, I'd recommend we all go through the budget once again with a toothpick, finding any area's where changes could possibly be made. We also have some government aid that'll need to be added in there (I'll start working on that). Some scattered thoughts there, both hopefully it all makes sense! :) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 21, 2012, 09:51:22 PM Governor Tmthforu94, would you be willing to support a further increase in the sales tax to 6.3%?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 21, 2012, 10:17:25 PM Governor Tmthforu94, would you be willing to support a further increase in the sales tax to 6.3%? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 21, 2012, 10:21:45 PM Governor Tmthforu94, would you be willing to support a further increase in the sales tax to 6.3%? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 21, 2012, 11:58:35 PM Governor, we still need that increased revenue for the beer. Also, wht is our estimated cost for keeping up the lottery? We now need to add that to expenses as well.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 21, 2012, 11:59:44 PM Governor, we still need that increased revenue for the beer. Also, wht is our estimated cost for keeping up the lottery? We now need to add that to expenses as well. EDIT: Here is what ZuWo said regarding the beer tax: GM shua has informed me that the higher beer taxes generates an additional revenue of $150 million. That's not much more than a drop in the ocean. In fact, our debt is still at $32 billion even with this small tax hike. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 23, 2012, 01:45:05 PM I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%. Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support. These are my proposed rates (I decided against creating any new brackets, although I would not be opposed to this, I doubt that it can make it through the Assembly): Actual Rates (proposed rates) (% Increase) Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 (0%) (0%) 1% $13,001 - $40,000 (1%) (0%) 1.5% $40,001 - $100,000 (2%) (.5%) 2.2% $100,001 - $180,000 (3.5%) (1.3%) 2.7% $180,001 - $300,000 (5.5%) (2.8%) 3.25% $300,001 - $750,000 (6.5%) (3.25%) 4% $750,001 - $2,750,000 (7.5%) (3.5%) 5% $2,750,001- $9,999,999 (8.5%) (3.5%) 6.5% $10,000,000+ (9.75%) (3.75%) 1.5% Employer conributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $50,000 (0%) (0%) 0.5% $50,001 - $75,000 (0.5%) (0%) 1% $75,001 - $125,000 (1.2%) (.2%) 1.5% $125,001 - $350,000 (1.8%) (.3%) 2% $350,001 - $1,000,000 (2.5%) (.5%) 2.5% $1,000,001 - $10,000,000 (3.25%) (.75%) 3.25% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 (4.5%) (1.25%) 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 (5.5%) (1.5%) 5% $70,000,001+ (6.5%) (1.5%) Thoughts? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 23, 2012, 04:40:11 PM I think we should go to a flat tax rate, like most states in America use.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 23, 2012, 05:06:55 PM I think we should go to a flat tax rate, like most states in America use. God bless. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 23, 2012, 05:17:27 PM I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%. Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support. These are my proposed rates (I decided against creating any new brackets, although I would not be opposed to this, I doubt that it can make it through the Assembly): Actual Rates (proposed rates) (% Increase) Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 (0%) (0%) 1% $13,001 - $40,000 (1%) (0%) 1.5% $40,001 - $100,000 (2%) (.5%) 2.2% $100,001 - $180,000 (3.5%) (1.3%) 2.7% $180,001 - $300,000 (5.5%) (2.8%) 3.25% $300,001 - $750,000 (6.5%) (3.25%) 4% $750,001 - $2,750,000 (7.5%) (3.5%) 5% $2,750,001- $9,999,999 (8.5%) (3.5%) 6.5% $10,000,000+ (9.75%) (3.75%) 1.5% Employer conributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $50,000 (0%) (0%) 0.5% $50,001 - $75,000 (0.5%) (0%) 1% $75,001 - $125,000 (1.2%) (.2%) 1.5% $125,001 - $350,000 (1.8%) (.3%) 2% $350,001 - $1,000,000 (2.5%) (.5%) 2.5% $1,000,001 - $10,000,000 (3.25%) (.75%) 3.25% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 (4.5%) (1.25%) 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 (5.5%) (1.5%) 5% $70,000,001+ (6.5%) (1.5%) Thoughts? I'm with you on corporate tax rates, but I'd prefer slightly lower income taxes, such as the following I'd like to propose. Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 (0%) (0%) 1% $13,001 - $40,000 (1%) (0%) 1.5% $40,001 - $100,000 (2%) (.5%) 2.2% $100,001 - $180,000 (3%) (1%) 2.7% $180,001 - $300,000 (4.5%) (1.5%) 3.25% $300,001 - $750,000 (5%) (1.75%) 4% $750,001 - $2,750,000 (6%) (2%) 5% $2,750,001- $9,999,999 (7.5%) (2.5%) 6.5% $10,000,000+ (9.5%) (3%) 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 23, 2012, 05:24:07 PM I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%. Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support. These are my proposed rates (I decided against creating any new brackets, although I would not be opposed to this, I doubt that it can make it through the Assembly): Actual Rates (proposed rates) (% Increase) Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 (0%) (0%) 1% $13,001 - $40,000 (1%) (0%) 1.5% $40,001 - $100,000 (2%) (.5%) 2.2% $100,001 - $180,000 (3.5%) (1.3%) 2.7% $180,001 - $300,000 (5.5%) (2.8%) 3.25% $300,001 - $750,000 (6.5%) (3.25%) 4% $750,001 - $2,750,000 (7.5%) (3.5%) 5% $2,750,001- $9,999,999 (8.5%) (3.5%) 6.5% $10,000,000+ (9.75%) (3.75%) 1.5% Employer conributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $50,000 (0%) (0%) 0.5% $50,001 - $75,000 (0.5%) (0%) 1% $75,001 - $125,000 (1.2%) (.2%) 1.5% $125,001 - $350,000 (1.8%) (.3%) 2% $350,001 - $1,000,000 (2.5%) (.5%) 2.5% $1,000,001 - $10,000,000 (3.25%) (.75%) 3.25% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 (4.5%) (1.25%) 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 (5.5%) (1.5%) 5% $70,000,001+ (6.5%) (1.5%) Thoughts? I'm with you on corporate tax rates, but I'd prefer slightly lower income taxes, such as the following I'd like to propose. Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 (0%) (0%) 1% $13,001 - $40,000 (1%) (0%) 1.5% $40,001 - $100,000 (2%) (.5%) 2.2% $100,001 - $180,000 (3%) (1%) 2.7% $180,001 - $300,000 (4.5%) (1.5%) 3.25% $300,001 - $750,000 (5%) (1.75%) 4% $750,001 - $2,750,000 (6%) (2%) 5% $2,750,001- $9,999,999 (7.5%) (2.5%) 6.5% $10,000,000+ (9.5%) (3%) 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions I can definitely live with that. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 23, 2012, 06:05:17 PM A flat tax is the most realistic way we can do this. AND it would raise more money than a graduated income tax.
I am also opposed to increasing corporate taxes at this time. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 23, 2012, 11:54:24 PM Also, wht is our estimated cost for keeping up the lottery? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 24, 2012, 12:24:12 AM For the pension tax, GM Shua estimates approximately $1.9 billion being brought in.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 24, 2012, 02:41:44 PM The deficit is now down to 15.14 billion
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 24, 2012, 04:15:48 PM Changing my vote on Amendment #2 to Aye if I still can
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 24, 2012, 06:18:33 PM Changing my vote on Amendment #2 to Aye if I still can There aren't any amendments at a vote right now. (Right? - Did I forget to close one?) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 24, 2012, 06:56:21 PM Changing my vote on Amendment #2 to Aye if I still can There aren't any amendments at a vote right now. (Right? - Did I forget to close one?) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 24, 2012, 07:17:36 PM Changing my vote on Amendment #2 to Aye if I still can There aren't any amendments at a vote right now. (Right? - Did I forget to close one?) I think he might be referring to the gas tax. ^^ Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 24, 2012, 11:14:50 PM That's it's own bill: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=160602.25
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 25, 2012, 03:35:13 PM I've done a considerable amount of thinking on the issue of a progressive income tax, and at the end of the day, I just can't support those increases. First, I don't think it'll be necessary, as I think we can find other ways to balance our budget without raising taxes, especially by that much. But raising taxes on the wealthy is also raising taxes on thousands of small businesses across our region, and put together with the corporate tax, I just feel this would stifle job growth.
Considering that there is already a pretty steep progressive tax on the national level (shown below), I have to agree with Inks and 20RP12 and I ask the Assembly to please consider establishing a flat tax. I could probably be swayed to also limit it to two tax brackets, if the left feels strongly about a higher rate for the rich. Federal level: Quote Income Taxes: by tax bracket 9.5K-35K 13% 35K-80K 24% 80K-170K 28% 170K-368K 35% 368K-1M 40% 1M-2.5M 50% 2.5M+ 60% Corporate Taxes: rates 0-50K 12% 50-75K 23% 75K-100K 30% 100K-335K 31% 335K-10M 33% 10M-15M 34% 15M+ 35% Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 25, 2012, 04:43:47 PM I've done a considerable amount of thinking on the issue of a progressive income tax, and at the end of the day, I just can't support those increases. First, I don't think it'll be necessary, as I think we can find other ways to balance our budget without raising taxes, especially by that much. But raising taxes on the wealthy is also raising taxes on thousands of small businesses across our region, and put together with the corporate tax, I just feel this would stifle job growth. Considering that there is already a pretty steep progressive tax on the national level (shown below), I have to agree with Inks and 20RP12 and I ask the Assembly to please consider establishing a flat tax. I could probably be swayed to also limit it to two tax brackets, if the left feels strongly about a higher rate for the rich. Federal level: Quote Income Taxes: by tax bracket 9.5K-35K 13% 35K-80K 24% 80K-170K 28% 170K-368K 35% 368K-1M 40% 1M-2.5M 50% 2.5M+ 60% Corporate Taxes: rates 0-50K 12% 50-75K 23% 75K-100K 30% 100K-335K 31% 335K-10M 33% 10M-15M 34% 15M+ 35% :o Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 25, 2012, 05:18:35 PM Yeah Federal Taxes are pretty ridiculous.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 25, 2012, 07:25:04 PM Income Tax Rate:
1.5% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Would these proposals be acceptable? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 25, 2012, 07:29:33 PM ^ X and Gass are gonna have heart attacks lol
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 25, 2012, 08:00:37 PM Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Would these proposals be acceptable? No. No. No. No. No. No. We need a FLAT tax rate. That's the only thing that will balance this budget. And we can set it at 5 or 6% and be good. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 25, 2012, 08:19:39 PM Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Would these proposals be acceptable? No. No. No. No. No. No. We need a FLAT tax rate. That's the only thing that will balance this budget. And we can set it at 5 or 6% and be good. I would like at least two to four brackets, even if the main rates vary around 5 or 6%. People with millions have much more discretionary income than those making in the tens of thousand only, and therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to pay a higher tax burden than the less wealthy. Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $50,000 3% $50,001 - $180,000 That's what I meant to put for those two brackets. D: Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 25, 2012, 08:34:04 PM Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Would these proposals be acceptable? No. No. No. No. No. No. We need a FLAT tax rate. That's the only thing that will balance this budget. And we can set it at 5 or 6% and be good. I would like at least two to four brackets, even if the main rates vary around 5 or 6%. People with millions have much more discretionary income than those making in the tens of thousand only, and therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to pay a higher tax burden than the less wealthy. Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $50,000 3% $50,001 - $180,000 That's what I meant to put for those two brackets. D: The majority of state governments in America disagree with you. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 25, 2012, 08:39:38 PM A 5-6% flat tax rate is an accurate and reasonable goal. What's wrong with that?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 25, 2012, 10:35:21 PM Here is my proposal:
0-30,000 0% 30,001-250,000 4% 250,001-1,000,000 6% 1,000,000+ 10% The rich must pay their fair share back to the region Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 25, 2012, 11:48:58 PM Here is my proposal: 0-30,000 0% 30,001-250,000 4% 250,001-1,000,000 6% 1,000,000+ 10% The rich must pay their fair share back to the region And why is "fair share" not 6%? Shouldn't everyone pay their fair share? Hence the "fair"? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 26, 2012, 01:49:04 AM s
Here is my proposal: 0-30,000 0% 30,001-250,000 4% 250,001-1,000,000 6% 1,000,000+ 10% The rich must pay their fair share back to the region And why is "fair share" not 6%? Shouldn't everyone pay their fair share? Hence the "fair"? The poor shouldn't have to say the same as millionaires. I withdraw my proposal and support TexasDem's proposal if we is willing to chance the brackets and rates a little bit. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 26, 2012, 05:06:36 AM They're not paying the same. The millionares are paying much more than the poor. But the proportion should be the same.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 26, 2012, 05:14:42 AM If I concede to vote for the immigration bill and the driving bill, will you concede to a flat tax rate for the region, a tax rate in line with most states representative of the Mideast in America?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 26, 2012, 03:57:45 PM Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Would these proposals be acceptable? No. No. No. No. No. No. We need a FLAT tax rate. That's the only thing that will balance this budget. And we can set it at 5 or 6% and be good. I would like at least two to four brackets, even if the main rates vary around 5 or 6%. People with millions have much more discretionary income than those making in the tens of thousand only, and therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to pay a higher tax burden than the less wealthy. Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $50,000 3% $50,001 - $180,000 That's what I meant to put for those two brackets. D: I really don't want to eliminate brackets. But I would be willing to agree to smaller increases (especially for some of the lower and mid-income brackets). Although some of the higher-income bracket rates are a bit too low. Still, with some adjustments and the return of all currently existing brackets, I am certain that there is a compromise to be made here. Thoughts? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 26, 2012, 04:17:09 PM If I concede to vote for the immigration bill and the driving bill, will you concede to a flat tax rate for the region, a tax rate in line with most states representative of the Mideast in America? Unfortunately Mr. Speaker, I am going to have to reject this proposal. We already have a majority on the immigration bill and the driving bill isn't that big an issue, for me at least. Agreeing to a flat-tax would be a huge concession (at least for me) and the concessions should be proportional ;) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 26, 2012, 04:20:41 PM I agree with Mr. X
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 26, 2012, 05:49:15 PM I will not be supporting a flat tax. While I can accept reducing the amount of brackets, and allowing some increases on lower and middle income citizens to reduce the discrepancies in the tax rates, a progressive taxation system should remain, in some form.
We could potentially base tax rates per bracket around 4-7% for all groups each besides those making below $50,000 or lower as an acceptable compromise. I do want to see a budget passed, preferably balanced, but a concession of the magnitude the Speaker would like is unacceptable. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 26, 2012, 06:06:03 PM I will not be supporting a flat tax. While I can accept reducing the amount of brackets, and allowing some increases on lower and middle income citizens to reduce the discrepancies in the tax rates, a progressive taxation system should remain, in some form... ...I do want to see a budget passed, preferably balanced, but a concession of the magnitude the Speaker would like is unacceptable. This. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 26, 2012, 07:32:16 PM I'm willing to take a small progressive tax, with possibly only 2 or 3 brackets (though I prefer a flat tax). But I can't let it get too progressive - I don't too see too much of an increase, as the rich are already paying a pretty substantial tax rate from the federal government. I feel it'd be counterproductive.
We'll have to find some middle ground here, folks, as no one has a majority on this bill. ;) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 26, 2012, 08:01:23 PM I'm willing to take a small progressive tax, with possibly only 2 or 3 brackets (though I prefer a flat tax). But I can't let it get too progressive - I don't too see too much of an increase, as the rich are already paying a pretty substantial tax rate from the federal government. I feel it'd be counterproductive. We'll have to find some middle ground here, folks, as no one has a majority on this bill. ;) What if we only had increases for the top three highest-income brackets (corporate and income), kept the other rates the same, and didn't reduce the number of brackets? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 26, 2012, 09:04:32 PM I'm willing to take a small progressive tax, with possibly only 2 or 3 brackets (though I prefer a flat tax). But I can't let it get too progressive - I don't too see too much of an increase, as the rich are already paying a pretty substantial tax rate from the federal government. I feel it'd be counterproductive. We'll have to find some middle ground here, folks, as no one has a majority on this bill. ;) What if we only had increases for the top three highest-income brackets (corporate and income), kept the other rates the same, and didn't reduce the number of brackets? I would go with that idea Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 27, 2012, 04:30:24 PM Here is another proposal, removing one bracket, and changing the income tax rates slightly.
Income Tax Rate: 2% $0 - $50,000 4.25% $50,001 - $180,000 5.5% $180,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Thoughts? Ideas? Proposed changes? What's clear is that neither a flat tax (supported by the Speaker, Governor, and Assemblyman 20RP12) or progressive system with more than four/five brackets (supported by Assemblyman Gass3268, Assemblyman Mr. X, and myself) can be enacted, so I hope this proposal, or the one I suggested earlier can be a sort of foundation for a middle ground. Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $50,000 3% $50,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 27, 2012, 05:03:53 PM Here is another proposal, removing one bracket, and changing the income tax rates slightly. Income Tax Rate: 2% $0 - $50,000 4.25% $50,001 - $180,000 5.5% $180,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Thoughts? Ideas? Proposed changes? What's clear is that neither a flat tax (supported by the Speaker, Governor, and Assemblyman 20RP12) or progressive system with more than four/five brackets (supported by Assemblyman Gass3268, Assemblyman Mr. X, and myself) can be enacted, so I hope this proposal, or the one I suggested earlier can be a sort of foundation for a middle ground. Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $50,000 3% $50,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ I can live with this. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 27, 2012, 06:11:52 PM I cannot. At most, I'll accept 3 tax brackets.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on October 27, 2012, 06:26:23 PM I cannot. At most, I'll accept 3 tax brackets. Eeeeeeeeeeeyup. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 27, 2012, 06:43:47 PM I'm going to introduce my proposal, which originally had bi-partisan support until someone backtracked. ;) Hopefully we can try and work with it, making small changes to find something acceptable to both sides.
Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $1,000,000 7% $1,000,001+ I'd personally rather do the income tax, see how much that cuts the deficit, then do the corporate tax instead of doing both at the same time. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 27, 2012, 07:04:36 PM Here is another proposal, removing one bracket, and changing the income tax rates slightly. Income Tax Rate: 2% $0 - $50,000 4.25% $50,001 - $180,000 5.5% $180,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ Thoughts? Ideas? Proposed changes? What's clear is that neither a flat tax (supported by the Speaker, Governor, and Assemblyman 20RP12) or progressive system with more than four/five brackets (supported by Assemblyman Gass3268, Assemblyman Mr. X, and myself) can be enacted, so I hope this proposal, or the one I suggested earlier can be a sort of foundation for a middle ground. Income Tax Rate: 1.5% $0 - $50,000 3% $50,001 - $180,000 4% $180,001 - $750,000 5% $750,001 - $2,750,000 6% $2,750,001+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions Corporate Tax Rate: 0.5% $0 - $75,000 1.5% $75,001 - $350,000 3% $350,001 - $10,000,000 3.5% $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 4% $20,000,001-$70,000,000 5% $70,000,001+ I can live with this. Would like a higher percent for the top bracket, but this is better. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 27, 2012, 07:06:15 PM I'm going to introduce my proposal, which originally had bi-partisan support until someone backtracked. ;) Hopefully we can try and work with it, making small changes to find something acceptable to both sides. Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $1,000,000 7% $1,000,001+ I'd personally rather do the income tax, see how much that cuts the deficit, then do the corporate tax instead of doing both at the same time. I'd much prefer the rates and brackets that Assemblyman TexasDem suggested. But I would be willing to wait on the corporate tax (and probably accept smaller increases there) if you'd agree to TexasDem's proposal for the regional income tax. Since TexasDem listed two proposals, this is the one I am referring to: Income Tax Rate: 2% $0 - $50,000 4.25% $50,001 - $180,000 5.5% $180,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions The Governor's proposal is a big step in the right direction, but I still feel I'd be giving up a little more ground than I'm comfortable with by supporting it. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 27, 2012, 07:17:48 PM I'm going to introduce my proposal, which originally had bi-partisan support until someone backtracked. ;) Hopefully we can try and work with it, making small changes to find something acceptable to both sides. Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $1,000,000 7% $1,000,001+ I'd personally rather do the income tax, see how much that cuts the deficit, then do the corporate tax instead of doing both at the same time. I'd much prefer the rates and brackets that Assemblyman TexasDem suggested. But I would be willing to wait on the corporate tax (and probably accept smaller increases there) if you'd agree to TexasDem's proposal for the regional income tax. Since TexasDem listed two proposals, this is the one I am referring to: Income Tax Rate: 2% $0 - $50,000 4.25% $50,001 - $180,000 5.5% $180,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000+ 1.5% Employer contributions to pensions The Governor's proposal is a big step in the right direction, but I still feel I'd be giving up a little more ground than I'm comfortable with by supporting it. I'm with Assemblyman Mr. X on this one, but we can reconcile the two proposals to some extent if mine is unacceptable to the Governor. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 27, 2012, 08:05:28 PM Income Tax Rate:
0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates. The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with. This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support! Thoughts? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 27, 2012, 08:09:59 PM Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates. The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with. This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support! Thoughts? Can we change these two brackets to the following? 3% $13,001 - $175,000 5% $175,001 - $999,999 Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 27, 2012, 08:12:17 PM Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates. The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with. This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support! Thoughts? Can we change these two brackets to the following? 3% $13,001 - $175,000 5% $175,001 - $999,999 I am fine with that if we can get the Governor to support it. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 27, 2012, 08:16:03 PM Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates. The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with. This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support! Thoughts? Can we change these two brackets to the following? 3% $13,001 - $175,000 5% $175,001 - $999,999 I am fine with that if we can get the Governor to support it. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 27, 2012, 08:23:38 PM Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates. The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with. This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support! Thoughts? Can we change these two brackets to the following? 3% $13,001 - $175,000 5% $175,001 - $999,999 I am fine with that if we can get the Governor to support it. Indeed. If that change were made would you support this? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 27, 2012, 08:26:48 PM Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates. The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with. This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support! Thoughts? Can we change these two brackets to the following? 3% $13,001 - $175,000 5% $175,001 - $999,999 I am fine with that if we can get the Governor to support it. Indeed. If that change were made would you support this? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 27, 2012, 08:30:31 PM The original compromise was enough of a stretch for me - I can't support the proposed amendment to it.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on October 27, 2012, 08:31:43 PM Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates. The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with. This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support! Thoughts? Can we change these two brackets to the following? 3% $13,001 - $175,000 5% $175,001 - $999,999 I like this a lot! Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 27, 2012, 08:32:00 PM The original compromise was enough of a stretch for me - I can't support the proposed amendment to it. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 27, 2012, 08:44:22 PM The original compromise was enough of a stretch for me - I can't support the proposed amendment to it. Again, I'm fine with this, but I don't think we should let this become a give an-inch-take-a-yard situation (or at least feel like one to the Governor). The original compromise may be about the only thing that can both get through the legislature and get Governor Tmthforu94's support (remember, he could always veto the budget). Better to have 50% of something than 100% of nothing. Maybe Governor Tmthforu94 might consider $225,000 as a cut-off, but if not, I think this is about as good as we'll get. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 27, 2012, 09:38:18 PM The original compromise was enough of a stretch for me - I can't support the proposed amendment to it. Again, I'm fine with this, but I don't think we should let this become a give an-inch-take-a-yard situation (or at least feel like one to the Governor). The original compromise may be about the only thing that can both get through the legislature and get Governor Tmthforu94's support (remember, he could always veto the budget). Better to have 50% of something than 100% of nothing. Maybe Governor Tmthforu94 might consider $225,000 as a cut-off, but if not, I think this is about as good as we'll get. After speaking with the Governor, I have decided to go ahead and support the original compromise at this time. I do not believe this change is big enough for me to vote against the bill, and our region deserves a budget passed. Nevertheless, I am not displeased with this compromise, and remain glad that we have been able to finally form a clear path for the most important duty of the assembly- passing the budget. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 27, 2012, 09:59:07 PM Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 27, 2012, 10:49:14 PM Proposed Amendment:
The income tax rate section of the budget shall be amended to read the following: Income Tax Rate: 0% $0 - $13,000 3% $13,001 - $250,000 5% $250,001 - $999,999 7% $1,000,000-$10,000,000 9% $10,000,001+ Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 29, 2012, 12:51:22 AM Do we want a GM analysis of the amendment before or after the vote?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on October 29, 2012, 08:10:55 AM One has been requested.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on October 30, 2012, 11:08:43 PM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 30, 2012, 11:48:18 PM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it. Oh hey - like a flat tax rate? Just like I've been saying. ;) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on October 31, 2012, 05:05:07 AM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it. Oh hey - like a flat tax rate? Just like I've been saying. ;) MI, IN and IL have flat taxes; the others have more. Here (http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/state_individualincome_rates-2000-2012-20120216_sept21.pdf) is a list of the tax rates for every state. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 31, 2012, 12:50:45 PM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it. Oh hey - like a flat tax rate? Just like I've been saying. ;) I still would not support a flat tax. Plus, I think my amendment/proposal is a better solution :) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on October 31, 2012, 04:02:07 PM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it. Oh hey - like a flat tax rate? Just like I've been saying. ;) MI, IN and IL have flat taxes; the others have more. Here (http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/state_individualincome_rates-2000-2012-20120216_sept21.pdf) is a list of the tax rates for every state. I thought Missouri and Ohio did as well... apparently I was incorrect in that. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on October 31, 2012, 05:37:06 PM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it. Oh hey - like a flat tax rate? Just like I've been saying. ;) I still would not support a flat tax. Plus, I think my amendment/proposal is a better solution :) I agree with Mr. X. But some states have decent, while not extreme progressive rates in the region- like Maryland, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on November 01, 2012, 10:23:31 PM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it. Oh hey - like a flat tax rate? Just like I've been saying. ;) MI, IN and IL have flat taxes; the others have more. Here (http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/state_individualincome_rates-2000-2012-20120216_sept21.pdf) is a list of the tax rates for every state. I thought Missouri and Ohio did as well... apparently I was incorrect in that. Missouri's is almost flat, since the highest bracket starts at $9K. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 01, 2012, 11:47:54 PM What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it. Oh hey - like a flat tax rate? Just like I've been saying. ;) MI, IN and IL have flat taxes; the others have more. Here (http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/state_individualincome_rates-2000-2012-20120216_sept21.pdf) is a list of the tax rates for every state. I thought Missouri and Ohio did as well... apparently I was incorrect in that. Missouri's is almost flat, since the highest bracket starts at $9K. That's right - I remember that now. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 03, 2012, 02:55:50 AM So, no one answered my question. Do you want a vote before or after the GM's analysis? (This is mainly aimed at whoever introduced the amendment... I can't remember right now)
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 03, 2012, 02:04:02 PM I would prefer a vote on my amendment before the analysis. I think there is already pretty solid support for the compromise.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on November 03, 2012, 02:10:14 PM just to be clear, I haven't yet figured out how to analyze a regional tax plan that isn't either a flat tax or at least somewhat based on RL rates.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 03, 2012, 10:13:35 PM just to be clear, I haven't yet figured out how to analyze a regional tax plan that isn't either a flat tax or at least somewhat based on RL rates. Thank you! :) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on November 04, 2012, 02:40:14 AM the gas and diesel tax revenue increases from 3.1 billion to 17.5 billion (14.4 billion increase). However, revenue from other sources can be expected to decrease by about 900 million due to lower consumer spending on other products. So, net increase of 13.5 billion.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 04, 2012, 09:55:10 AM the gas and diesel tax revenue increases from 3.1 billion to 17.5 billion (14.4 billion increase). However, revenue from other sources can be expected to decrease by about 900 million due to lower consumer spending on other products. So, net increase of 13.5 billion. This bring our deficit down to $1.64 billion! With us being so close to a balanced budget, I won't allow any increases to the income or corporate tax now, as I find it unnecessary. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on November 04, 2012, 10:01:00 AM the gas and diesel tax revenue increases from 3.1 billion to 17.5 billion (14.4 billion increase). However, revenue from other sources can be expected to decrease by about 900 million due to lower consumer spending on other products. So, net increase of 13.5 billion. This was the bill with gas at 45 cents and diesel at 50 cents, right? Either way, I'm very happy with this result. :) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 04, 2012, 11:09:44 AM the gas and diesel tax revenue increases from 3.1 billion to 17.5 billion (14.4 billion increase). However, revenue from other sources can be expected to decrease by about 900 million due to lower consumer spending on other products. So, net increase of 13.5 billion. This bring our deficit down to $1.64 billion! With us being so close to a balanced budget, I won't allow any increases to the income or corporate tax now, as I find it unnecessary. I don't know that I can support a budget that doesn't at least include some increases in the regional income and corporate tax rates. I believe that the regional income tax rates and corporate tax rates are simply too low under the unamended budget proposal and I would urge my fellow members of the Mideast Assembly to oppose the unamended budget. If Governor Tmthforu94 will agree to some additional concessions on the regional income tax rates (along with those in my amendment) than I would be willing to make some concessions on the corporate tax rates (though the concessions would have to be proportional). The regional income tax rates (and to a lesser degree the corporate tax rates) are simply too low, I don't feel the upper-income brackets would be paying their fair share of the regional taxes under the unamended budget proposal. I think that the amendment I had proposed is a fair compromise that requires both sides to make real concessions. Supporting the unamended budget would require Assemblymen Gass, Assemblyman TexasDem, and myself to essentially give away the farm for free and that is not something that I am willing to do. It would be no different than if I refused to support any budget that did not include the original/pre-compromise income and corporate tax rates that I proposed. I would urge Governor Tmthforu94 to reconsider as this sort of ideological rigidity will not lead to the passage of a balanced budget, the fact is that neither the Governor nor the Assembly majority are in a position to be taking a "my way or the high way" on this issue (plus such an approach is generally counter-productive imo). The Assembly majority can simply respond in kind to the Governor's new position and say that we won't "allow" a budget without income and corporate tax increases. So then we don't get a budget because of ideological rigidity and everyone loses. Neither of us can pass a budget without the other's support, so we are equally capable of killing each other's proposals. The only thing that can pass is a compromise everyone can live with. Don't get me wrong, I am open to smaller increases for certain brackets and I am very happy with the progress that has been made, but I do feel strongly about this. I also think that folding to pressure like this would set a terrible precedent for future negotiations. The path to prosperity is one of pragmatic compromise, not ideological rigidity and we must all remember that. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on November 04, 2012, 01:54:58 PM Would anybody consider a 5 cent bag tax? They have it everywhere around DC. It would help bring in a little revenue and it would also help encourage people you use their own reusable bags.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on November 04, 2012, 01:57:25 PM Also I think we can still raise the income/corporate taxes, but it doesn't need to be as much as much as previously proposed.
Lastly, if we choose not to go the tax route, how do we get that last 1.64 billion? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 04, 2012, 03:49:19 PM Also I think we can still raise the income/corporate taxes, but it doesn't need to be as much as much as previously proposed. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 04, 2012, 04:10:32 PM Our economy is already fragile enough as is - I don't believe we should be pushing for more tax hikes when we already are on track to having a balanced budget. There were some pretty lofty increases in the original compromise - I reverse my support for those now because those type of increases are unnecessary in reaching a balanced budget. Why do people want to increase taxes when we don't need to? Let's leave more money in individual's pockets so that they can go out there and invest in our economy and create more jobs.
Now, I'd be willing to go back to the drawing board on tax rates and come out with a fairer system than the current one, but I'm not going to continue to pound the wealthy with more taxes - the progressive tax laid down by the federal government is ridiculously high...are people forgetting that? If these type of tax rates (federal and regional combined) were actually passed in RL, it'd simply cripple the economy. I don't want that to happen. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 04, 2012, 04:11:24 PM Lastly, if we choose not to go the tax route, how do we get that last 1.64 billion? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 04, 2012, 06:50:19 PM Increasing the sales tax to 6.0% would overall increase revenue by $3 billion, putting us several billion over a balanced budget, according to GM Shua.
That being said, I introduce: Quote Sales Tax: Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 04, 2012, 08:34:49 PM OK, so other than Tmthforu94's sales tax amendment, what amendments do members still want brought to a vote?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on November 08, 2012, 06:59:50 PM I say that we vote on the Governor's amendment then go forward and pass this baby!
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 08, 2012, 08:14:30 PM I say that we vote on the Governor's amendment then go forward and pass this baby! Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Vote on Amendment) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 09, 2012, 03:07:00 AM Voting is now open on the following amendment. Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN. This will be a 24-hour vote.
Quote Sales Tax: Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Vote on Amendment) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on November 09, 2012, 06:25:21 AM Nay
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Vote on Amendment) Post by: Talleyrand on November 09, 2012, 05:55:33 PM AYE
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Vote on Amendment) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 09, 2012, 06:19:18 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Vote on Amendment) Post by: Gass3268 on November 09, 2012, 07:51:58 PM AYE
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Vote on Amendment) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 11, 2012, 05:31:52 AM AYE
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 11, 2012, 05:32:56 AM Voting is now closed. The AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 1. The AYEs have it, and the amendment is adopted.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 11, 2012, 11:18:35 AM Ladies and gentleman, I believe we now have a balanced budget! :) Congratulations.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Gass3268 on November 11, 2012, 01:53:22 PM Ladies and gentleman, I believe we now have a balanced budget! :) Congratulations. Nice work everyone! Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 11, 2012, 02:25:49 PM Ladies and gentleman, I believe we now have a balanced budget! :) Congratulations. Nice work everyone! Indeed, hopefully we will be able to pass the budget before the end of the session :) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on November 11, 2012, 06:44:25 PM Excellent.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Talleyrand on November 11, 2012, 06:59:09 PM This is a great step for our region. I am so glad to have been part of it. :)
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: California8429 on November 11, 2012, 06:59:55 PM Well I'm not in favor of these taxes increases...but it is nice to see the budget I wrote so long ago make it through to just before the final vote to become law :)
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 11, 2012, 10:09:30 PM Well I'm not in favor of these taxes increases...but it is nice to see the budget I wrote so long ago make it through to just before the final vote to become law :) Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 11, 2012, 11:36:12 PM Do you think we could get the numbers amended on the first page and proceed to a final vote soon (unless someone else has anything to add)?
I had originally considered proposing a couple cuts to free up money for a jobs bill, but at the end of the day, we're already going to be running a surplus, and I don't want to put any more strain than needed on the government. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 12, 2012, 05:57:17 PM Yeah, I can try to get that done tonight after class.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 12, 2012, 11:22:15 PM Actually, Inks, do you think you could hold off on a final vote after you recalculate the numbers? I have some math I want to do with the tax credits. Thank you! :)
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 14, 2012, 04:38:38 PM Sorry for the delay - I've had a big paper due this week that's finally done. I'll have this updated by late tonight. In the mean time, go ahead and introduce your amendments.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2012, 04:51:35 PM I'm not seeing any information on the sales tax analysis, otherwise, I believe we are now up to date.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2012, 05:11:05 PM Here's the sales tax increase:
5.7% sales tax $59.9 billion 6.0% sales tax $62.9 billion Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2012, 05:12:35 PM 3B has been added to Ad Valorum taxes.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 15, 2012, 05:22:38 PM We currently have $3.9 billion free to spend from the 2010 Stimulus Act - when I was requesting funds way back when, I asked for a small portion of the money delegated to us be used at the Assembly's discretion. I'm trying to figure out if we could apply some to here, either through tax breaks or increased credits, or if we should hold it. Thoughts?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2012, 05:41:29 PM CAN we just "hold it" as a surplus? Is that allowed?
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 15, 2012, 05:48:18 PM We currently have $3.9 billion free to spend from the 2010 Stimulus Act - when I was requesting funds way back when, I asked for a small portion of the money delegated to us be used at the Assembly's discretion. I'm trying to figure out if we could apply some to here, either through tax breaks or increased credits, or if we should hold it. Thoughts? I am very skeptical of passing any new tax breaks while the current regional income and corporate tax rates for the upper income brackets are so low. I won't rule it out without hearing what you had in mind, but my gut feeling is that we would be better off holding onto it than using it to give tax breaks. I would support using that money to help improve our region's infrastructure, *maybe * developing a high-speed rail system (I need to investigate this a bit before taking a position), improving the region's public schools, investing in green energy research, etc. There is a lot of good that we can do with this money and that is what we should be focusing on. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 15, 2012, 05:56:27 PM We currently have $3.9 billion free to spend from the 2010 Stimulus Act - when I was requesting funds way back when, I asked for a small portion of the money delegated to us be used at the Assembly's discretion. I'm trying to figure out if we could apply some to here, either through tax breaks or increased credits, or if we should hold it. Thoughts? I am very skeptical of passing any new tax breaks while the current regional income and corporate tax rates for the upper income brackets are so low. I won't rule it out without hearing what you had in mind, but my gut feeling is that we would be better off holding onto it than using it to give tax breaks. I would support using that money to help improve our region's infrastructure, *maybe * developing a high-speed rail system (I need to investigate this a bit before taking a position), improving the region's public schools, investing in green energy research, etc. There is a lot of good that we can do with this money and that is what we should be focusing on. We can hold it at a surplus, but come on Inks, we have to do something nice for The People. ;) Just no huge tax cut that'll put us back in the whole...paging 2001... Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 15, 2012, 11:56:57 PM We currently have $3.9 billion free to spend from the 2010 Stimulus Act - when I was requesting funds way back when, I asked for a small portion of the money delegated to us be used at the Assembly's discretion. I'm trying to figure out if we could apply some to here, either through tax breaks or increased credits, or if we should hold it. Thoughts? I am very skeptical of passing any new tax breaks while the current regional income and corporate tax rates for the upper income brackets are so low. I won't rule it out without hearing what you had in mind, but my gut feeling is that we would be better off holding onto it than using it to give tax breaks. I would support using that money to help improve our region's infrastructure, *maybe * developing a high-speed rail system (I need to investigate this a bit before taking a position), improving the region's public schools, investing in green energy research, etc. There is a lot of good that we can do with this money and that is what we should be focusing on. We can hold it at a surplus, but come on Inks, we have to do something nice for The People. ;) Just no huge tax cut that'll put us back in the whole...paging 2001... Why was this addressed to me? Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 16, 2012, 12:20:02 AM The first sentence was responding to Mr. X's claim that our tax rates are too low. The second part was in response to you asking if we can just "hold on to" the surplus. :)
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Debating) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 16, 2012, 02:50:21 PM The first sentence was responding to Mr. X's claim that our tax rates are too low. The second part was in response to you asking if we can just "hold on to" the surplus. :) 1. I forgot I had asked a question. 2. I wasn't advocating that we shouldn't do anything with it; I was merely questioning if that was even legal. Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Final Vote) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 18, 2012, 01:10:25 AM Seeing no further debate, I'm bringing this to a final vote. The version on page 1 is up to date. Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN. This will be a 48-hour vote.
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Final Vote) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 18, 2012, 01:11:31 AM AYE
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Final Vote) Post by: tmthforu94 on November 18, 2012, 01:21:30 AM Thank you for bringing this to a final vote. I think my proposed reforms will all just be part of a big jobs bill next session. :)
Great work, Assembly! Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Final Vote) Post by: Talleyrand on November 18, 2012, 08:56:51 AM AYE
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Final Vote) Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on November 18, 2012, 08:59:51 AM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Final Vote) Post by: Gass3268 on November 18, 2012, 05:35:00 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Passed) Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on November 21, 2012, 05:31:29 AM Voting is now closed. The AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 0, with 1 not voting. The AYEs have it, and the bill has passed. The bill is now passed onto the Governor for his signature or veto.
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