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Title: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: TNF on December 20, 2013, 08:04:22 PM FO, one of the best activist organizations of the 1960s.
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Peter the Lefty on December 20, 2013, 08:23:20 PM Epic Freedom Fighters. The youthful activist spirit of these types of groups is one of many reasons why I wish I could've come of age in the late 60's and/or early 70's, even in spite of my sexual orientation (though I realize I'd be likely to modify that viewpoint if I were taken back in time to that era.)
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: H. Ross Peron on December 21, 2013, 01:13:50 AM HO. The New Left in general was terrible.
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Oakvale on December 21, 2013, 02:02:28 AM Massive FO obviously.
HO. The New Left in general was terrible. ^ This post is the worst. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Redalgo on December 21, 2013, 03:58:16 AM I have a higher opinion of the New Left than its older counterpart. Voted FO for now but this is not based on much information; my opinion could be very easily swayed on this one.
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Cassius on December 21, 2013, 04:38:09 AM Needless to say, I'm definitely not a fan.
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: dead0man on December 21, 2013, 07:16:45 AM They didn't like women very much.
Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: politicallefty on December 21, 2013, 09:01:03 AM Overall, FO. I'm sure I would've strongly supported them if I were alive during the Vietnam War.
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 21, 2013, 09:03:50 AM They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. Ugh. I wish I could change my vote. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Mechaman on December 21, 2013, 09:30:26 AM They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. Ugh. I wish I could change my vote. dead0straw puts in a quote from Wikipedia about a few events in a group that catered to college aged individuals including horny young men in a time that was overwhelmingly chauvinistic that would surely reveal the overwhelming hypocrisy of the vast majority of a national organization that had chapters all around the nation! Wow, this changes everything! Or, you could read the rest of the wikipedia article and realize that in every basket of apples there are a few rotten ones that the good ones at least made some efforts to address: Quote The 1967 convention took an egalitarian turn by eliminating the Presidential and Vice-Presidential offices and replacing them with a National Secretary (20 year old Mike Spiegel), an Education Secretary (Texan Bob Pardun of the Austin chapter), and an Inter‑organizational Secretary (former VP Carl Davidson). A clear direction for a national program was not set but they did manage to pass strong resolutions on the draft, resistance within the Army itself, and they made a call for immediate withdrawal from Vietnam. A women's liberation resolution on the issue of male chauvinism was passed by conference attendees, for the first time. But don't let inconvenient things like facts get in the way! Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: TNF on December 21, 2013, 10:09:17 AM They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. Ugh. I wish I could change my vote. Dude, it was an organization that existed in the 1960s. Which, if you'll recall, was not as enlightened on issues of sex, race, etc. as the society we live in today. It's kind of ridiculous to criticize the SDS for being sexist when literally every institution in American life was sexist in the 1960s. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 21, 2013, 11:56:29 AM Dead0man is, of course, trolling you a bit (it's his thing as I'm sure he'd gleefully admit), but he's actually got a legitimate point in this instance. With a couple of exceptions the New Left was - for the most part - stridently, shockingly and disgustingly sexist.* And also hypocritically so, because even if it was only as bad as society at large (which, alas, is not so) organisations that claim to stand for the liberation of humanity and all that really ought not relegate 50% of it to an essentially servile role.
*One reason for the... er... perhaps somewhat over-enthusiastic nature of the radical fringes of c.1970s Feminism was a pretty conscious backlash against this. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 21, 2013, 12:04:06 PM Dead0man is, of course, trolling you a bit (it's his thing as I'm sure he'd gleefully admit), but he's actually got a legitimate point in this instance. With a couple of exceptions the New Left was - for the most part - stridently, shockingly and disgustingly sexist.* And also hypocritically so, because even if it was only as bad as society at large (which, alas, is not so) organisations that claim to stand for the liberation of humanity and all that really ought not relegate 50% of it to an essentially servile role. *One reason for the... er... perhaps somewhat over-enthusiastic nature of the radical fringes of c.1970s Feminism was a pretty conscious backlash against this. Yeah, it's personally something I have a hard time getting past. That probably doesn't make SDS a HO, but I have a hard time calling it a FO now. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Tetro Kornbluth on December 21, 2013, 12:52:29 PM Dead0man is, of course, trolling you a bit (it's his thing as I'm sure he'd gleefully admit), but he's actually got a legitimate point in this instance. With a couple of exceptions the New Left was - for the most part - stridently, shockingly and disgustingly sexist.* And also hypocritically so, because even if it was only as bad as society at large (which, alas, is not so) organisations that claim to stand for the liberation of humanity and all that really ought not relegate 50% of it to an essentially servile role. *One reason for the... er... perhaps somewhat over-enthusiastic nature of the radical fringes of c.1970s Feminism was a pretty conscious backlash against this. This is of course entirely true but I will point out that as far as offenders go the SDS were far from the worst. The harder Yippies and Hippie activists (important not to confuse these two with the New Left as a whole) were far worse. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on December 21, 2013, 01:12:41 PM This is of course entirely true but I will point out that as far as offenders go the SDS were far from the worst. The harder Yippies and Hippie activists (important not to confuse these two with the New Left as a whole) were far worse. Yes. The SDS were positively charming in comparison to that delightful crowd... Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Peter the Lefty on December 21, 2013, 01:23:38 PM They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Supersonic on December 21, 2013, 01:39:20 PM I was reading about them the other day.
They're the absolute worst. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: ElectionsGuy on December 21, 2013, 01:42:41 PM Their strategy seems good and they seem well-intentioned. But what they advocate for is awful in every way. HO
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on December 21, 2013, 01:46:06 PM I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall.
They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 21, 2013, 01:47:04 PM I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall. They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. One of the most badass men alive, yes. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Redalgo on December 21, 2013, 01:49:00 PM Yeah, it's personally something I have a hard time getting past. That probably doesn't make SDS a HO, but I have a hard time calling it a FO now. Yeah, I suppose that's about right. :\ Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on December 21, 2013, 01:53:39 PM This is of course entirely true but I will point out that as far as offenders go the SDS were far from the worst. The harder Yippies and Hippie activists (important not to confuse these two with the New Left as a whole) were far worse. Yes. The SDS were positively charming in comparison to that delightful crowd... Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: politicus on December 21, 2013, 08:51:01 PM I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall. They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. One of the most badass men alive, yes. Eldridge Cleaver died in 1998. Badass normally has positive connotations. Do you admire this piece of scum? Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 21, 2013, 08:58:42 PM I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall. They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. One of the most badass men alive, yes. Eldridge Cleaver died in 1998. Badass normally has positive connotations. Do you admire this piece of scum? Advocated for civil rights, sexual freedom, limited government, and the doctrine of Jesus Christ. What's not to like? Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on December 21, 2013, 09:01:42 PM I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall. They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. One of the most badass men alive, yes. Eldridge Cleaver died in 1998. Badass normally has positive connotations. Do you admire this piece of scum? Advocated for civil rights, sexual freedom, limited government, and the doctrine of Jesus Christ. What's not to like? Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 21, 2013, 09:03:12 PM I don't care for their views, but I think their activism helped define an important era (1967-1971ish). HO overall. They didn't like women very much. Quote There was also resistance to women's equal participation, which drove some women away from the group. According to Jacqui Ceballos, "Women at a 1965 SDS conference [were] put down with she just needs a good screw; the following year SDS women [were] pelted with tomatoes when they demand[ed] a plank on women's liberation." <snip> Also in 1968, an SDS organizer at the University of Washington told a meeting about white college men working with poor white men, and "[h]e noted that sometimes after analyzing societal ills, the men shared leisure time by 'balling a chick together.' He pointed out that such activities did much to enhance the political consciousness of poor white youth. A woman in the audience asked, 'And what did it do for the consciousness of the chick?'" <snip> Also in 1969, the New Left was present at a Counter-Inaugural to Richard Nixon’s first inauguration, at which the antiwar leader Dave Dellinger, serving as master of ceremonies, incorrectly announced, “The women have asked all the men to leave the stage.” [26] After that, SDS activist Marilyn Salzman Webb attempted to speak about women's oppression, and SDS men heckled her, shouting, "Take her off the stage and f--k her!" and so forth until she was drowned out. One of the most badass men alive, yes. Eldridge Cleaver died in 1998. Badass normally has positive connotations. Do you admire this piece of scum? Advocated for civil rights, sexual freedom, limited government, and the doctrine of Jesus Christ. What's not to like? Just goes to show he didn't discriminate between races. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Antonio the Sixth on December 21, 2013, 09:13:12 PM I'm pretty sure Cath is trolling you guys...
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 21, 2013, 09:25:28 PM I'm pretty sure Cath is trolling you guys... Thank you! The fact that some people persist in taking me seriously makes me continually lose faith in the forum. That said, with all my sarcasm is a tiny bit of seriousness (or vice versa). Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: politicus on December 21, 2013, 10:31:05 PM I'm pretty sure Cath is trolling you guys... Thank you! The fact that some people persist in taking me seriously makes me continually lose faith in the forum. That said, with all my sarcasm is a tiny bit of seriousness (or vice versa). I generally never read his posts, so I wouldn't know. And the share of sexists on here is so high you never know if people are serious, semi-serious or just cynical when they say things like that. The word badass is generally a trigger word for me - filled with admiration for jerks and scumbags. Also serial rape is no laughing matter - especially if you know rape victims personally, as I do. But what the heck, it just remind me why I took a 5 month break from the forum - probably shouldn't have come back. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on December 21, 2013, 10:34:51 PM I'm pretty sure Cath is trolling you guys... Thank you! The fact that some people persist in taking me seriously makes me continually lose faith in the forum. That said, with all my sarcasm is a tiny bit of seriousness (or vice versa). Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 21, 2013, 10:39:31 PM I'm pretty sure Cath is trolling you guys... Thank you! The fact that some people persist in taking me seriously makes me continually lose faith in the forum. That said, with all my sarcasm is a tiny bit of seriousness (or vice versa). The badassery was relegated to the Black Panther --> Reagan conservative thing. The best of both worlds. The rape-related information was new news that I nevertheless had to role with. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Vosem on December 21, 2013, 11:19:30 PM HO, and that's before I begin to think about what they thought about women's rights.
Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: TNF on December 21, 2013, 11:21:12 PM HO, and that's before I begin to think about what they thought about women's rights. >implying that you or any of the Republicans on this board care about women's rights Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on December 22, 2013, 12:01:12 AM HO, and that's before I begin to think about what they thought about women's rights. >implying that you or any of the Republicans on this board care about women's rights TNF's right. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Cassius on December 22, 2013, 09:18:22 AM HO, and that's before I begin to think about what they thought about women's rights. >implying that you or any of the Republicans on this board care about women's rights I think we have a different conception of what 'women's rights' actually means. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Mechaman on December 22, 2013, 09:36:31 AM Again, just in case you missed it the first time:
Quote The 1967 convention took an egalitarian turn by eliminating the Presidential and Vice-Presidential offices and replacing them with a National Secretary (20 year old Mike Spiegel), an Education Secretary (Texan Bob Pardun of the Austin chapter), and an Inter‑organizational Secretary (former VP Carl Davidson). A clear direction for a national program was not set but they did manage to pass strong resolutions on the draft, resistance within the Army itself, and they made a call for immediate withdrawal from Vietnam. A women's liberation resolution on the issue of male chauvinism was passed by conference attendees, for the first time. Would you guys call Abraham Lincoln's Republican Party a "Horrible Organization" because a lot of the members thought the blacks should be moved to Africa? Jesus Christ. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Redalgo on December 22, 2013, 09:50:33 AM Would you guys call Abraham Lincoln's Republican Party a "Horrible Organization" because a lot of the members thought the blacks should be moved to Africa? Jesus Christ. No but I wouldn't call it a "Freedom Organization" either. This is a reasonable result of the options being so damned absolute in these polls. Most people and groups contain elements of greatness and awfulness alike. Posters at times shy from a "freedom" vote if it means implying something nice about something terrible, and yet in casting a "horrible" vote one tends to overlook some of the positive things about a bloke or organization. Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: TNF on December 22, 2013, 10:40:49 AM Again, just in case you missed it the first time: Quote The 1967 convention took an egalitarian turn by eliminating the Presidential and Vice-Presidential offices and replacing them with a National Secretary (20 year old Mike Spiegel), an Education Secretary (Texan Bob Pardun of the Austin chapter), and an Inter‑organizational Secretary (former VP Carl Davidson). A clear direction for a national program was not set but they did manage to pass strong resolutions on the draft, resistance within the Army itself, and they made a call for immediate withdrawal from Vietnam. A women's liberation resolution on the issue of male chauvinism was passed by conference attendees, for the first time. Would you guys call Abraham Lincoln's Republican Party a "Horrible Organization" because a lot of the members thought the blacks should be moved to Africa? Jesus Christ. Isn't it odd how liberals overlook the faults of liberal politicians (FDR interning the Japanese, Truman nuking Japan twice, JFK getting us involved in Vietnam, LBJ continuing mass slaughter in Vietnam for no reason, Carter doing nothing of value at all, Clinton signing NAFTA, welfare reform, etc) and liberal organizations (like the 1860s GOP, which wanted to deport blacks to Africa, as did Lincoln up until very late in the war) but fixate themselves on a sole failure of radical or conservative organizations? Or have a marked inability to judge historical figures by the standards of their own day? Title: Re: Opinion of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) Post by: Redalgo on December 22, 2013, 11:54:28 AM Aye, TNF, there are double-standards and such. Though a bit sympathetic to Carter on account of his intentions, I have yet to be convinced that any of our other U.S. Presidents were clearly FFs in a way nothing nauseatingly horrible could detract from. I dislike judging people by contemporary standards though. It makes it too easy to romanticize and laud people who thought and often did terrible things. There is a difference between thinking poorly of a historical figure and thinking their contributions to society did no good.
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