Talk Elections

In order not to clutter up Sam's topic, I'm making a new topic to house all of the voting done on the budget.

The current budget is as follows:


Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  $4.376 billion
2.   Judicial Branch:  $6.043 billion
3.      Executive Branch:
         a.  Executive Office of the President:  $0.342 billion
         b.  General Services Administration:  $0.230 billion
         c.  Other Independent Agencies:  $17.134 billion (+0.050 billion)
Total:  $28.125 billion

Cabinet Departments

1.      Defense and Security Department:  $631.636 billion
         a.  Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:  $3.989 billion
         b.  Defense Sub-Dept. (military):  $432.853 billion (+$30.220 billion)
         c.  Energy Sub-Dept.:  $23.118 billion (+$1.020 billion)
         d.  Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):  $7.636 billion
         e.  Homeland Security Sub-Dept.:  $31.414 billion
         f.   Interior Sub-Dept.:  $10.591 billion
         g.  National Aeronautics and Space Administration:  $16.245 billion
         h.  Other Defense Civil Programs:  $40.505 billion
         i.   Veterans Affairs Sub-Dept.:  $65.285 billion

2.  Treasury and Social Services Department  $1,917.608 billion ($1.92 trillion)
         a.  Agriculture Sub-Dept.:  $84.283 billion (+$1.000 billion)
         b.  Commerce Sub-Dept:  $5.837 billion
         c.  Education Sub-Dept.:  $84.084 billion (+$17.650 billion)
         d.  Health and Human Services Sub-Dept.:  $571.589 billion
         e.  Housing and Urban Development Sub-Dept.:  $34.042 billion
         f.   Labor Sub-Dept.:  $57.321 billion
         g.  National Science Foundation:  $5.770 billion
         h.  Office of Personnel Management:  $63.688 billion
         i.   Small Business Administration:  $0.681 billion
         j.   Social Security Administration:  $555.031 billion
         k.  Transportation Sub-Dept.:  $58.771 billion (+$0.395 billion)
         l.   Treasury Sub-Dept.:  $396.511 billion

3.  Justice Dept:  $21.776 billion

4.  State and International Affairs Dept.  $29.150 billion
         a.  State Sub-Dept.:  $10.893 billion
         b.  International Assistance Programs:  $18.257 billion

Total:  $2,600.170 billion ($2.60 trillion)

Allowances:  -$0.798 billion

Total (BA):  $2,627.497 billion ($2.63 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  $111.204 billion

---

The first amendment to this budget is to cut the following:

From Other Independent Agencies ($417 million):

Elimination of the Election Assistance Commission at a savings of $50 million to the Atlasian taxpayer.  (lines 386-397).
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

Elimination of the Federal Election Commission at a savings of $52 million to the Atlasian taxpayer.  (lines 617-622)
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

Elimination of the National Archives and Records Administration at a savings of $304 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 823-879)
Rationale: Unnecessary in Atlasia.  The Atlas Wiki forms our Archives and Records

Elimination of the Office of Government Ethics at a savings of $11 million to the Atlasian taxpayer.
Not really needed in Atlasia.  We can police our own ethical problems (not naming names).

From General Services Administration ($20 million):

Elimination of the Electronic Government (E-Gov) fund at a savings of $5 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 103-111).
Rationale: Unnecessary in Atlasia.  The Atlas Wiki forms our Electronic Services to the public.

Elimination of FCIC (Federal Citizen Information Center) at a savings of $15 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 129-138).
Rationale: Unnecessary in Atlasia.  The Atlas Wiki forms our Electronic Services to the public.

From Department of the Treasury (Treasury Sub-Dept.) ($55 million):

Elimination of the Presidential Election Campaign fund at a savings of $55 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 76-78)
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

From Department of the Treasury (Commerce Sub-Dept.)($848 million):

Elimination of the Bureau of the Census at a savings of $848 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer. (lines 106-148)
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

---

I hereby open voting on these cuts.  All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

Aye to all the cuts.

Aye to all of them.

Aye

aye to all.

Aye on all of the cuts.  Good job fellas.

Aye to all these cuts.

With six votes in favor to none against, these cuts have passed.

Aye to all.

Bumping, I will have something to say on this tonight, as well as the Budget Amendment.

Aye to all.

Ok, well we have now cut the Budget Deficit to 502.953 billion.

My suggestion is going to be this:

In the next three or four days, if anyone would like to propose some cuts, we can have a vote on those.

Also, I would like to see how everyone feels on the question I posed in the Budget Amendment earlier.

Otherwise, I think we ought to officially approve this thing and try to get the Budget Deficit down to the magic 223.56 billion dollars it would need to be 2% of the GDP for the next Federal budget in the meantime. (imo)

Aye

For reference, here is the new budget:


Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  $4.376 billion
2.   Judicial Branch:  $6.043 billion
3.      Executive Branch:
         a.  Executive Office of the President:  $0.342 billion
         b.  General Services Administration:  $0.210 billion (-$0.020 billion)
         c.  Other Independent Agencies:  $16.717 billion (-$0.367 billion)
Total:  $27.688 billion

Cabinet Departments

1.      Defense and Security Department:  $631.636 billion
         a.  Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:  $3.989 billion
         b.  Defense Sub-Dept. (military):  $432.853 billion (+$30.220 billion)
         c.  Energy Sub-Dept.:  $23.118 billion (+$1.020 billion)
         d.  Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):  $7.636 billion
         e.  Homeland Security Sub-Dept.:  $31.414 billion
         f.   Interior Sub-Dept.:  $10.591 billion
         g.  National Aeronautics and Space Administration:  $16.245 billion
         h.  Other Defense Civil Programs:  $40.505 billion
         i.   Veterans Affairs Sub-Dept.:  $65.285 billion

2.  Treasury and Social Services Department  $1,916.705 billion ($1.92 trillion)
         a.  Agriculture Sub-Dept.:  $84.283 billion (+$1.000 billion)
         b.  Commerce Sub-Dept:  $4.989 billion (-$0.848 billion)
         c.  Education Sub-Dept.:  $84.084 billion (+$17.650 billion)
         d.  Health and Human Services Sub-Dept.:  $571.589 billion
         e.  Housing and Urban Development Sub-Dept.:  $34.042 billion
         f.   Labor Sub-Dept.:  $57.321 billion
         g.  National Science Foundation:  $5.770 billion
         h.  Office of Personnel Management:  $63.688 billion
         i.   Small Business Administration:  $0.681 billion
         j.   Social Security Administration:  $555.031 billion
         k.  Transportation Sub-Dept.:  $58.771 billion (+$0.395 billion)
         l.   Treasury Sub-Dept.:  $396.456 billion (-$0.055 billion)

3.  Justice Dept:  $21.776 billion

4.  State and International Affairs Dept.  $29.150 billion
         a.  State Sub-Dept.:  $10.893 billion
         b.  International Assistance Programs:  $18.257 billion

Total:  $2,600.170 billion ($2.60 trillion)

Allowances:  -$0.798 billion

Total (BA):  $2,627.497 billion ($2.63 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  $111.204 billion

Though I wish we could reduce the budget deficit soon enough, I would like to propose that we have a vote on passing this one and work on getting things figured for the next budget (which will presumbly be governed by the proposed Budget Amendment next time).

Gabu, I'd like to motion that this be brought to a vote.

We cannot put the budget defecit off.  We need to deal with it now.  We should at least halve the defecit for this budget before moving on.

Even though I think that is unwise, then I guess the answer is that we should have a vote on whether we want to approve this budget now or go back to the drawing table again.

If we do go back, then trust me, I've got a number of things that I'll propose, though honestly others may not like it.

I believe that we should pass this budget as it is now. Between now and June we can come up with ways to reduce the deficit and reduce waste, most likely through the Waste Reduction Committee. By June we should have a better view of what the economy is doing in FY 2005 and what should be cut to reduce the current deficit. I would rather have a working budget ASAP then be haggling with the particulars for a long time.

Since it's been requested, I'm going to bring the budget to a vote.

Here it is in its current form:


Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  $4.376 billion
2.   Judicial Branch:  $6.043 billion
3.      Executive Branch:
         a.  Executive Office of the President:  $0.342 billion
         b.  General Services Administration:  $0.210 billion (-$0.020 billion)
         c.  Other Independent Agencies:  $16.717 billion (-$0.367 billion)
Total:  $27.688 billion

Cabinet Departments

1.      Defense and Security Department:  $631.636 billion
         a.  Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:  $3.989 billion
         b.  Defense Sub-Dept. (military):  $432.853 billion (+$30.220 billion)
         c.  Energy Sub-Dept.:  $23.118 billion (+$1.020 billion)
         d.  Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):  $7.636 billion
         e.  Homeland Security Sub-Dept.:  $31.414 billion
         f.   Interior Sub-Dept.:  $10.591 billion
         g.  National Aeronautics and Space Administration:  $16.245 billion
         h.  Other Defense Civil Programs:  $40.505 billion
         i.   Veterans Affairs Sub-Dept.:  $65.285 billion

2.  Treasury and Social Services Department  $1,916.705 billion ($1.92 trillion)
         a.  Agriculture Sub-Dept.:  $84.283 billion (+$1.000 billion)
         b.  Commerce Sub-Dept:  $4.989 billion (-$0.848 billion)
         c.  Education Sub-Dept.:  $84.084 billion (+$17.650 billion)
         d.  Health and Human Services Sub-Dept.:  $571.589 billion
         e.  Housing and Urban Development Sub-Dept.:  $34.042 billion
         f.   Labor Sub-Dept.:  $57.321 billion
         g.  National Science Foundation:  $5.770 billion
         h.  Office of Personnel Management:  $63.688 billion
         i.   Small Business Administration:  $0.681 billion
         j.   Social Security Administration:  $555.031 billion
         k.  Transportation Sub-Dept.:  $58.771 billion (+$0.395 billion)
         l.   Treasury Sub-Dept.:  $396.456 billion (-$0.055 billion)

3.  Justice Dept:  $21.776 billion

4.  State and International Affairs Dept.  $29.150 billion
         a.  State Sub-Dept.:  $10.893 billion
         b.  International Assistance Programs:  $18.257 billion

Total:  $2,600.170 billion ($2.60 trillion)

Allowances:  -$0.798 billion

Total (BA):  $2,627.497 billion ($2.63 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  $111.204 billion

---

All senators in favor of the above budget, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

Aye

Aye.

We have to start somewhere.

Aye.

Aye

If you're looking for two ways to cut the deficit, repealing the Medicare Rx Benefit and raising the Cap Gains tax back to 20% (And the dividend tax with it, I'd presume) would go a long way.  Of course that looks at the budget in a vacuum, but hey.

I already proposed repealing the Medicare Rx Benefit in the earlier Budget thread to Al as a potential cost-cutting method I would support, though I must admit that I didn't think it would have much support.

Maybe I'll reconsider it now.

Perhaps we could cut something from the Treasury Sub-Dept.  Could a Senator (probably Sam Spade) post a rundown of what is basically included in the Treasury sub-dept. budget?

Ok, but if the President would look through the Treasury budget himself, he would discover that other than some rather minor expenses here and there (1 billion to run the Mint, 8 billion for Financial Management Services and a couple of other minor things), there are basically two major expenses that the Treasury Dept. does that make up all of its budget.

1.  Running of the IRS (roughly about 59 billion)

2.  Paying off the interest on the National Debt (roughly about 350 billion)

Now, if you want to get rid of the IRS, I have no problem with that, but we'd better have an alternative tax system in place before.

---

Simply put, there is pretty much no way to really get into the budget deficit without cutting either:

1. Social programs (things to do with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, in that order)

2. Defense expenditures  (I think there are some things you can cut out of here, but probably not more than 50 billion max.)

Or you can:

3. Raise taxes.

Or you can:

4. Keep spending increases down and hope for another 1990s to boom the federal coffers.

Aye

Hmmmm... I thought we had already voted on this for some reason.


Aye

Aye

The budget now has enough votes to pass.

Senators now have 24 hours to change their votes.

Aye

I just realized that I haven't even voted yet, so...

Aye.

Not that it would have mattered; with nine votes in favor to none against, the budget has passed.

This Budget has brought up another interesting conundrum in the Budget Amendment to be voted on soon and that is that in the Budget Amendment, the President (whoever that is) must approve each version of the Budget, whereas here it seems like that we're just approving it, and that the President (whoever it is at that time) will only approve the final version.

What are your thoughts on this, Gabu?

I think the President should only approve the final budget, unless an the Senate chooses to have him approve every part.  The debate should be left up to the Senate.

I am actually going to work something up in the Budget Amendment for the Senate to vote on answering that question.

Did anything happen to this?

The preliminary budget (or the first revision for that matter) doesn't have to be approved by the President.  Only the final version must.  Or so it says in the rewritten Budget Amendment that passed.

I thought you noticed that considerable gain in Senatorial power earlier.  :P

Okay I think I've worked out what's going on by reading the Budget Amendment again.

Should this "Preliminary Version" be archived on the Wiki?

Sure, if you want to, I have no problem with that.

bumping for Budget matters

bumping