Talk Elections

General Politics => International General Discussion => Topic started by: Vega on October 20, 2015, 03:28:45 PM



Title: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on October 20, 2015, 03:28:45 PM
As soon as the election campaign thread dies out, people can start using this as the venue to discuss the 42nd Parliament, the new government, etc.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on October 20, 2015, 03:30:41 PM
Demographics of the new parliament:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/women-and-visible-minorities-make-election-gains-154729934.html


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DavidB. on October 20, 2015, 03:53:54 PM
Beliebers of all countries, unite!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on October 20, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
Looks like Trudeau is being hammered out the gate over Keystone.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RI on October 20, 2015, 04:58:58 PM
Quote from: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/656585825132650497
Agence France-Presse
‏@AFP   #BREAKING Canada withdrawing fighter jets from Iraq, Syria, Trudeau tells Obama


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DavidB. on October 20, 2015, 05:49:20 PM
Wow. Didn't expect that. I know it came up in the campaign and I know new governments love to do something symbolic on foreign policy, but fighting IS from the air can't be that controversial... even Dutch Labour doesn't mind it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 20, 2015, 07:41:56 PM
Minister of Public Works Diane Finely is rumoured to be getting the interim Tory leader job. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-jenni-byrne-tossed-1.3280702)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Clarko95 📚💰📈 on October 20, 2015, 09:15:15 PM
So what does this mean for CEFTA and the TPP?


I read that the Liberals are in favor of Keystone "with conditions", so is that code for "lol jk it's dead" or was there actually a chance they would support it if Obama had not taken a stand against it? I'm assuming that the Liberals are just going to let it die after all the criticism Harper got for being obsessed with it and annoying Obama.

I was reading the criticism on The Harper Decade blog that Harper had let Canada become too dependent on energy to power the economy. Is this a widely held sentiment, and if so, have the Liberals put forth any plans regarding a reorientation of Canada's economy?

Also, how are the Conservatives (voter base and the party machinery) reacting to this? Are there hysterical breakdowns about the country abandoning them, rage and blame directed at Harper, or shellshock and disbelief that this happened? Are there Conservative voices calling for "moderation" or a change in tone, ala post-Romney's defeat?

How are the New Democrats doing? Are they okay? Manuevering to make something of the Liberal majority and see if they can influence anything?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 20, 2015, 10:04:30 PM
Both deals will stand. Fellow Tories that I'm acquainted with know what we have to do and the leadership process is already underway. On a personal note, I expected to lose even if I hoped we could turn it around in the campaign. All the serious potential leadership contenders have said we need a more optimistic tone and less confrontational media style, and agree that policy fundamentals are fine.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Maxwell on October 20, 2015, 10:08:18 PM
I feel quite bad for Tom Mulcair, who seemed like a knowledgeable gent whose party got caught in the Trudeaumentum.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on October 20, 2015, 10:09:17 PM
So what is Mulcair doing? Will he seriously try to stay on as leader?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 20, 2015, 10:15:09 PM
Party has made clear that Mulcair can stay if he wants. There's a leadership review next spring, but he'd cruise.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on October 20, 2015, 10:18:26 PM
Party has made clear that Mulcair can stay if he wants. There's a leadership review next spring, but he'd cruise.

Has Mulcair made it clear he wants to stay on?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 20, 2015, 10:43:28 PM
He hasn't said anything yet. Everyone speaking on and off the record is saying he can stay and anyone who pushes will be "quite publicly slapped." (http://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/10/20/ndp-will-let-thomas-mulcair-decide-his-fate-as-leader.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed) Considering who lost, there aren't many surviving contenders. The precedent might be Howard Hampton, who got squashed by flash polarization in 1999 and 2003 but stayed as leader until 2009.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on October 20, 2015, 11:33:26 PM
Quote from: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/656585825132650497
Agence France-Presse
‏@AFP   #BREAKING Canada withdrawing fighter jets from Iraq, Syria, Trudeau tells Obama

What a stupid thing. We can help make a difference in this conflict (and it's one we have a big stake in) with minuscule negative consequences for our nation. Sigh.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on October 21, 2015, 12:00:23 AM
He hasn't said anything yet. Everyone speaking on and off the record is saying he can stay and anyone who pushes will be "quite publicly slapped." (http://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/10/20/ndp-will-let-thomas-mulcair-decide-his-fate-as-leader.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed) Considering who lost, there aren't many surviving contenders. The precedent might be Howard Hampton, who got squashed by flash polarization in 1999 and 2003 but stayed as leader until 2009.

Well, Hampton had to deal with Bob Rae's catastrophic legacy, so probably nobody expected him to do better. Mulcair was dealt the best hand imaginable and completely blew it.

Anyway, I guess you're right that there's nobody left to replace him...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on October 21, 2015, 03:09:07 AM
Mulcair was dealt the best hand imaginable and completely blew it.

What was he supposed to do when everyone started talking about niqabs?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ProgressiveCanadian on October 21, 2015, 03:48:57 AM
Quote from: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/656585825132650497
Agence France-Presse
‏@AFP   #BREAKING Canada withdrawing fighter jets from Iraq, Syria, Trudeau tells Obama
Happy he stuck to his word....good move.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on October 21, 2015, 04:25:20 AM
There is no other real candidate to lead the NDP other than Mulcair and throwing him away could result in their Quebec damage being irreparable. Mulcair ran a bad campaign but he is still the only person who has the capacity to unite their Quebec and non Quebec voters, and people still know and like him. Take the time to rebuild their bases of support and refine a center-leftist image in opposition. Infighting is the opposite of what that party needs right now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on October 21, 2015, 04:54:01 AM
What are we to make of the Bloc? They don't have official party status, nor has Duceppe been elected; but will this mini-revival stave off their demise?

I think the NDP is in not that bad a shape in retrospect. Their caucus is a lot more balanced - before it seemed to be Quebec + a handful of other guys, now it seems less vulnerable to the strange and fickle nature of the Québécois electorate. They lost a lot of talented people, but they stil exist - and I imagine a lot of the carer ones could enter their provincial NDP politics and really stir the pot. Plus Trudeau's cabinet is going to be full of people like Blair and Leslie who will probably lose the "progressive" label pretty quickly.


The hard part for the NDP is either getting a decent and reliable hold on Toronto seats or looking away from the capital. He GTA is just a frustrating region for the party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 21, 2015, 10:12:24 AM
I think the NDP is in not that bad a shape in retrospect. Their caucus is a lot more balanced - before it seemed to be Quebec + a handful of other guys

Correct; people who are acting as though they are in a terrible state have clearly not been following Canadian politics for very long (or have forgotten what they used to know). I would also note that there's now more 'logic' to NDP support patterns in Quebec that indicates that they may have attracted a proper base rather than what looked like borrowings from elsewhere.

Quote
The hard part for the NDP is either getting a decent and reliable hold on Toronto seats or looking away from the capital. He GTA is just a frustrating region for the party.

What's new? Toronto has always been a frustration for the federal NDP. Significant breakthroughs in the past have never lasted either.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: pikachu on October 21, 2015, 01:02:09 PM
I think the NDP is in not that bad a shape in retrospect. Their caucus is a lot more balanced - before it seemed to be Quebec + a handful of other guys

Correct; people who are acting as though they are in a terrible state have clearly not been following Canadian politics for very long (or have forgotten what they used to know). I would also note that there's now more 'logic' to NDP support patterns in Quebec that indicates that they may have attracted a proper base rather than what looked like borrowings from elsewhere.

Quote
The hard part for the NDP is either getting a decent and reliable hold on Toronto seats or looking away from the capital. He GTA is just a frustrating region for the party.

What's new? Toronto has always been a frustration for the federal NDP. Significant breakthroughs in the past have never lasted either.

I actually haven't been following Canadian politics for very long, so why is this?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 21, 2015, 01:04:39 PM
Anne McGrath, the NDP's campaign manager, said she expects Mulcair to lead them into another election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: BaconBacon96 on October 21, 2015, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/656585825132650497
Agence France-Presse
‏@AFP   #BREAKING Canada withdrawing fighter jets from Iraq, Syria, Trudeau tells Obama

What a stupid thing. We can help make a difference in this conflict (and it's one we have a big stake in) with minuscule negative consequences for our nation. Sigh.

Canadian soldiers are still helping train Kurdish forces in northern Iraq, which is probably a more practical use of Canadian resources than bombing ISIS, which over a dozen other countries are doing.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 21, 2015, 04:46:00 PM
An interesting question for policy wonks:

Premier Wynne introduced a pension plan in Ontario after Harper refused to expand CPP. Trudeau now has a majority and wants to expand CPP, but that would take a lot of time and negotiations with the provinces. Will/should she continue implementing the new pension plan only to possibly cancel it after a very short period of time, or should she hold off and try to help Trudeau fast track a new solution


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 21, 2015, 05:45:34 PM
An interesting question for policy wonks:

Premier Wynne introduced a pension plan in Ontario after Harper refused to expand CPP. Trudeau now has a majority and wants to expand CPP, but that would take a lot of time and negotiations with the provinces. Will/should she continue implementing the new pension plan only to possibly cancel it after a very short period of time, or should she hold off and try to help Trudeau fast track a new solution

I'm pretty sure I read she would suspend her plan if Trudeau won.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 21, 2015, 07:05:29 PM
Duceppe is quitting tomorrow (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/gilles-duceppe-reacts-federal-election-1.3282887)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on October 22, 2015, 12:21:45 AM
Duceppe is quitting tomorrow (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/gilles-duceppe-reacts-federal-election-1.3282887)

Does BQ have any capable leader to replace him with? Is it likely that this election could be for them what 1997 was for the PCs? Wishful thinking, I know... :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 22, 2015, 11:05:07 AM
Finley running for interim. (http://www.cfra.com/NationalCP/Article.aspx?id=483922) She should be the consensus choice. Clement's considering the permanent leadership and presumably she consulted with Nicholson, the only other plausible choice. Ideally convention held within a year so next fall we're back in business.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on October 22, 2015, 11:11:02 AM
Duceppe is quitting tomorrow (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/gilles-duceppe-reacts-federal-election-1.3282887)

Does BQ have any capable leader to replace him with? Is it likely that this election could be for them what 1997 was for the PCs? Wishful thinking, I know... :P
Mario Beaulieu was the pre-Duceppe leader, and won his seat. I'd consider him a favourite, although admittedly I know nothing about the rest of the BQ caucus. Also, keep in mind that the Bloc vote decreased and they only won more seats because their main competitor, the NDP, collapsed and the Liberal wave was not nearly as strong as the 2011 NDP wave in francophone areas. The next election where the Francophone vote consolidates behind a single federalist party will also be the election where the Bloc is finally wiped out, I wouldn't call that wishful thinking.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 22, 2015, 11:19:15 AM
Duceppe is quitting tomorrow (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/gilles-duceppe-reacts-federal-election-1.3282887)

Does BQ have any capable leader to replace him with? Is it likely that this election could be for them what 1997 was for the PCs? Wishful thinking, I know... :P
Mario Beaulieu was the pre-Duceppe leader, and won his seat. I'd consider him a favourite, although admittedly I know nothing about the rest of the BQ caucus. Also, keep in mind that the Bloc vote decreased and they only won more seats because their main competitor, the NDP, collapsed and the Liberal wave was not nearly as strong as the 2011 NDP wave in francophone areas. The next election where the Francophone vote consolidates behind a single federalist party will also be the election where the Bloc is finally wiped out, I wouldn't call that wishful thinking.

Louis Plamondon is a plausible candidate. He's one of the BQ founders and doesn't have an extremist reputation. However he's in his 70's, and didn't run in the last two leadership contests. He may not want the job.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 22, 2015, 01:49:05 PM
Rheal Fortin, newly elected MP for Riviere du Nord has been named interim Bloc leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on October 22, 2015, 05:25:28 PM
The next election where the Francophone vote consolidates behind a single federalist party will also be the election where the Bloc is finally wiped out, I wouldn't call that wishful thinking.

You're saying this as if it's bound to happen... For all we know, Québec could remain split 4-way for tbe next 50 years... :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on October 22, 2015, 05:31:49 PM
Historically, Francophone Quebec has voted as block for one party. This election was the aberration. The BQ MPs mostly won by narrow margins, single digits mostly. Only a modest improvement from the LPC or NDP would be necessary to take them out.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on October 22, 2015, 05:55:22 PM
And also Duceppe is basically their only good politician. He's funny, can argue a point well, has a wide appeal etc. we'll see if the new bunch has anybody who can hold a candle, but for the most part Quebec is less interested in having sovereignties in parliament, locking the province from influencing government by entering power.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on October 22, 2015, 10:02:06 PM
There is a possibility of electoral reform for the next election (unless it was only campaign promise that they don't intend to pursue). This could change how MPs are elected. Perhaps parties with new leaders next time should not hurry to select new leaders because depending on the system it can influence what type of leader is preferable.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 23, 2015, 03:50:35 PM
Tory leadership is getting ugly. (http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/conservative-caucus-unrest-mounts/)

Poilievre on opposition life. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-pierre-poilievre-ottawas-last-conservative-standing?hootPostID=74cd961221a721c6cb834622c35936a1)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on October 23, 2015, 04:41:07 PM
Not surprised Harper still wants to pull the strings even after he was defeated. ::)

He's really in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If he stays on as MP, he'll be accused of holding back party rebuilding, and the Liberals will gleefully turn 2019 into a second referendum on Harper. If he resigns like Prentice, he'll be forever disgraced and ostracized from the party.

Oh well, the least he could have done was find a consensus interim leader who would assume control first thing on October 20. That was too much for his ego, though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on October 24, 2015, 01:11:17 AM
Do you guys think Elizabeth May will remain Green party leader for the entirety of the incoming Parliament?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on October 24, 2015, 03:11:36 AM
Do you guys think Elizabeth May will remain Green party leader for the entirety of the incoming Parliament?

I think so. Assuming Trudeau keeps his promise to kill FPTP, she needs to prepare the party for 2019 when they will almost definitely elect a sizeable caucus and become a permanent force in Parliament.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 24, 2015, 07:58:38 AM
Just in case you needed further proof that journalists can't do math.

Jeffery Simpson: Soft nationalists moved en masse back to the Bloc (BQ change in Quebec: -4.1%)

Conrad Black: The Tories "substantially increased their share in Quebec", (Con change in Quebec: +0.2%)

::)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 25, 2015, 03:46:05 PM
He's really in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If he stays on as MP, he'll be accused of holding back party rebuilding, and the Liberals will gleefully turn 2019 into a second referendum on Harper. If he resigns like Prentice, he'll be forever disgraced and ostracized from the party.

I think the correct thing to do would be to quit when the new leader is elected. That should be long enough for the Liberal honeymoon to subside and to avoid any "quitting on election night" backlash, while still getting out of the way well in advance of the election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on October 26, 2015, 01:38:18 AM
He's really in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If he stays on as MP, he'll be accused of holding back party rebuilding, and the Liberals will gleefully turn 2019 into a second referendum on Harper. If he resigns like Prentice, he'll be forever disgraced and ostracized from the party.

I think the correct thing to do would be to quit when the new leader is elected. That should be long enough for the Liberal honeymoon to subside and to avoid any "quitting on election night" backlash, while still getting out of the way well in advance of the election.
IMO he should have stated himself on election night that he will step aside as party leader, he is proud of watching the party grow up, that it's time for it to make its own future, and that he will strictly sit as a backbencher.

Not doing so, even if he truly is merely a backbencher, allows the Liberals to accuse Harper of still secretly leading the party. They'll take the punditry speculating about Harper influencing the leadership race and run with attack ads showing Harper pulling the new leader's strings. Then Justin is guaranteed re-election (provided there's no video of him strangling a kitten).

For the good of the party, the leadership convention needs to be delayed to, say, 2017. And then Harper himself quietly resigns as an MP on a Friday night next, say, July, before quietly moving on to whatever else he wants to do. That gives the party enough time to rethink its direction and conduct a thorough debate about its future.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on October 29, 2015, 04:40:24 PM
Does someone have a link to the Macleans article about ethnic diversity in the new parliament? It had a nice visual break down, and I can't seem to find it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ag on October 29, 2015, 07:16:50 PM
Does someone have a link to the Macleans article about ethnic diversity in the new parliament? It had a nice visual break down, and I can't seem to find it.

This one?

http://www.macleans.ca/shape-of-the-house/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on October 29, 2015, 08:57:29 PM
Does someone have a link to the Macleans article about ethnic diversity in the new parliament? It had a nice visual break down, and I can't seem to find it.

This one?

http://www.macleans.ca/shape-of-the-house/

Yes, thank you.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 30, 2015, 09:29:45 PM
Excellent Hebert column on the referendum's 20th anniversary today. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/10/30/election-vote-in-quebec-should-cause-renewed-worry-in-sovereigntist-ranks.html) Highly recommend her and Lapierre's The Morning After.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 01, 2015, 07:57:36 AM
Star revealed some senior portfolios: Goodale as DPM/House Leader, Brison at Finance, Dion at Environment, Freeland at Foreign Affairs or International Trade. (http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/11/01/how-justin-trudeau-picked-his-new-cabinet-hepburn.html) Vaughan and Bennett won't make it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 01, 2015, 08:46:24 AM
Star revealed some senior portfolios: Goodale as DPM/House Leader, Brison at Finance, Dion at Environment, Freeland at Foreign Affairs or International Trade. (http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/11/01/how-justin-trudeau-picked-his-new-cabinet-hepburn.html) Vaughan and Bennett won't make it.

I would have preferred Morneau, but Brison is a good pick to reassure Bay St. I'm kind of curious to see how much an effect he will have on the budget, given that he was a quasi-libertarian at times during his two leadership campaigns. He was pro-private healthcare, pro-EI reform (which is weird considering how EI reform screwed the Tories in ATL), and I think he has said some nice things about corporate tax cuts and flat taxes.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 01, 2015, 09:19:28 AM
More than that: he proposed eliminating capital gains taxes 4 years ago. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/scott-brison-how-the-liberals-might-yet-be-saved) But he'll follow the Grit pattern of other Blue finance ministers who served under Red PMs...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DINGO Joe on November 01, 2015, 02:48:43 PM
Throwing this in here because it Canadian:

Last year Saskatchewan unveiled the Boundary Dam CO2 captured power plant.  It was expensive, $1.5B loonies for 110MW of coal generated power (10x the NG CC generation could be built for that price tag), but it is the cutting edge of technology for coal to possibly be environmentally friendly and there was a unique situation were the CO2 could be sold for oil recovery purposes.  The plant won all the "new plant of the year" awards and the Sask government including Premier Bruce Wall touted the plant running at 90% efficiency.  

Unfortunately, that 90% efficiency only refers to when the plant has been running, and due to a myriad of problems the plant has only run 45% of the time in the last year.  90% of 45% means it really capturing 40% of the CO2 it was expect to.  Since there was an agreement to sell the CO2 to an oil company named Cenovus and SaskPower hasn't been able to meet their contractual obligations they have had to pay fines to Cenovus.  

Power Magazine Article (http://www.powermag.com/saskpower-admits-to-problems-at-first-full-scale-carbon-capture-project-at-boundary-dam-plant/)

Local Newspaper (http://www.thestarphoenix.com/business/sask+premier+wall+defends+lack+transparency+problems+carbon/11478199/story.html)

Lots of other Canadian articles available on the issue.  Looks like there will be lots of lawsuits and pointing of fingers over the various mechanical issues at the plant.  And really, given what is happening in the US at Edwardsport and Kemper, it shouldn't be a surprise that there were problems, though the magnitude and ability to keep problems under wrap for so long is surprising.

The one question I haven't seen asked, given that the government and power executives all say that problems should be expected in the first year of a cutting edge plant like this, is why didn't they negotiate that into the contract with Cenovus?  I mean if it was all expected, why commit to a contract and fines when you expect in advance there to be a problem meeting that commitment?

As a footnote, Premier Wall is supposed to be part of the Canadian delegation that goes to Paris for the Climate talks.  I'm sure he'll have a lovely booth.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on November 03, 2015, 05:11:44 PM
Any predictions re: Trudeau's Cabinet?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 03, 2015, 05:17:51 PM
Robert Falcon-Ouelette won't be in it.  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/robert-falcon-ouellette-not-in-justin-trudeau-s-cabinet-despite-predictions-1.3302511)

Goodale doesn't go back to Finance. Sean Casey gets Justice.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hash on November 04, 2015, 12:02:36 PM
The full cabinet list:

Justin Trudeau (Quebec) - Prime Minister, Intergovernmental Affairs and Youth.
Ralph Goodale (Saskatchewan) - Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.
Lawrence MacAulay (P.E.I.) - Agriculture and Agri-Food.
Stéphane Dion (Quebec) - Foreign Affairs.
John McCallum (Ontario) - Immigration, Citizenship and Refugees.
Carolyn Bennett (Ontario) - Indigenous and Northern Affairs.
Scott Brison (Nova Scotia) - Treasury Board President.
Dominic Leblanc (New Brunswick) - Leader of the Government in the House of Commons.
Navdeep Bains (Ontario) - Innovation, Science and Economic Development.
Bill Morneau (Ontario) - Finance Minister.
Jody Wilson-Raybould (B.C.) - Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
Judy Foote (Newfoundland and Labrador) - Public Services and Procurement.
Chrystia Freeland (Ontario) - International Trade.
Jane Philpott (Ontario) - Health.
Jean-Yves Duclos (Quebec) - Families, Children and Social Development.
Marc Garneau (Quebec) - Transport.
Marie-Claude Bibeau (Quebec) - International Development and La francophonie.
Jim Carr (Manitoba) - Natural Resources.
Mélanie Joly (Quebec) - Heritage.
Diane Lebouthillier (Quebec) - National Revenue.
Kent Hehr (Alberta) - Veterans Affairs, and Associate Minister of National Defence.
Catherine McKenna (Ontario) - Environment and Climate Change.
Harjit Sajjan (B.C.) - National Defence.
MaryAnn Mihychuck (Manitoba) - Employment Workforce Development and Labour.
Amarjeet Sohi (Alberta) - Infrastructure and Communities.
Maryam Monsef (Ontario) - Democratic Institutions.
Carla Qualtrough (B.C.) - Sport, and Persons with Disabilities.
Hunter Tootoo (Nunavut) - Fisheries and Oceans, and Canadian Coastguard.
Kirsty Duncan (Ontario) - Science.
Patricia Hajdu (Ontario) - Status of Women.
Bardish Chagger (Ontario) - Small Business and Tourism.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on November 04, 2015, 02:55:26 PM
Certainly the most diverse Cabinet we've ever seen. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Crumpets on November 05, 2015, 02:16:16 PM
Certainly the most diverse Cabinet we've ever seen. 

Also half women.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hash on November 05, 2015, 02:43:29 PM
The long-form census will be back in time for next year's census. RIP FREEDUMB / RIP MUH PRIVACY


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 06, 2015, 11:01:15 AM
Keystone rejected.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 06, 2015, 11:02:22 AM
NS Environment minister Andrew Younger has been expelled from the Liberal caucus. He failed to appear as a witness in the assault trial of the staffer he was having an affair with. The woman allegedly assaulted him after he broke up with her when he was named to cabinet.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Simfan34 on November 06, 2015, 01:18:19 PM
Can someone explain why the long form census was such a big deal?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 06, 2015, 02:33:07 PM
So this just happened. (https://twitter.com/leeberthiaume/status/662710474153201664)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: andrew_c on November 06, 2015, 07:49:17 PM
Can someone explain why the long form census was such a big deal?

The long form census provides important demographic data that is often used to shape major decisions at all levels of government, most notably taxes and spending.  Voluntary census forms, which replaced the long form census, do not provide accurate data for governments, since they are voluntary.  That makes policy crafting a challenge.  There were also accusations that Harper scrapped the long form census in order to muzzle Statistics Canada.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 08, 2015, 08:32:18 PM
Den Tandt: Mulcair should quit. Names Cullen, Boulerice, Brosseau as potential successors. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/michael-den-tandt-mulcair-ran-a-principled-campaign-and-lost-heres-why-the-ndp-may-want-a-new-leader)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on November 08, 2015, 09:14:55 PM
Ruth Ellen Brosseau: from Carleton University bartender to Prime Minister in eight years. :o


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on November 08, 2015, 09:41:09 PM
Brosseau is a badass but she's too young. Mulcair is probably fine where he is for now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 11, 2015, 05:23:23 PM
Good articles (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/un-to-aid-canada-in-identifying-resettling-syrian-refugees/article27186014/) on the refugee issue. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/11/refugees-as-a-long-term-investment-in-the-country-tim-harper.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on November 11, 2015, 06:31:53 PM
Can someone explain why the long form census was such a big deal?

Municipalities, social service agencies, business etc. want reliable data.  If it's voluntary, it's hard to say how accurate the data really is.  Statscan suppressed the data for many smaller municipalitie.

About half a dozen people in the country objected due to privacy concerns. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Tetro Kornbluth on November 12, 2015, 07:35:21 AM
Why it's almost as if accurate data and ability to analyze the population is a key part of a modern society...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 12, 2015, 04:17:14 PM
Upcoming First Ministers meeting (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-to-meet-with-premiers-on-nov-23-ahead-of-climate-change-conference-1.2655595), Trudeau audience with HMQ  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-the-queen-buckingham-palace-1.3315981)before CHOGM, meeting Obama at G20.
 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/12/us-g20-turkey-obama-idUSKCN0T129J20151112#PDlb963HcCHsgZlK.97)


Evan Solomon gets the refugee planning scoop. (http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/1000-refugees-a-day-to-be-flown-to-canada-document-shows/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 12, 2015, 09:44:08 PM
Excellent: Elections Alberta may deregister the Progressives. (http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-buoyed-by-pc-plight-wildrose-members-plot-path-to-power?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on November 14, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
Excellent: Elections Alberta may deregister the Progressives. (http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-buoyed-by-pc-plight-wildrose-members-plot-path-to-power?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

I'm told that part of the article was written in error; we have till Monday at 4:30 to file, and I'm told that all the documentation will be in.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 16, 2015, 04:57:18 PM
Here in QC, Immigration will process 2700 refugee files by Dec. 18. (http://www.lapresse.ca/international/crise-migratoire/201511/16/01-4921354-accueillir-6000-refugies-dici-janvier-impossible-dit-quebec.php)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on November 17, 2015, 04:14:30 AM
Jason Kenney's Twitter diarrhea is so unprofessional. It's as if he doesn't accept the election results. If this sets the tone for the leadership race, the CPC will be lucky to hold 30% in 2019.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 17, 2015, 11:32:04 PM
Mexican visa requirement will be lifted. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-formally-commits-to-lifting-visa-requirement-for-mexicans-1.3323013)

Wells' interview with the French ambassador. (http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/why-frances-ambassador-to-canada-can-live-with-trudeaus-plans/)

Refugee airlift won't start for another week for logistical reasons, UN diplomats would privately prefer a slower timeline. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/clock-ticking-on-canadas-refugee-plan-while-un-diplomats-express-concern-over-timeline)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 19, 2015, 06:55:13 PM
First group of refugees will arrive at Valcartier by Dec. 1.  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-military-valcartier-syrian-refugees-1.3326088)Meanwhile the feds have started looking for civilian winterized housing. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/19/ottawa-ramping-up-search-for-winter-housing-for-thousands.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 20, 2015, 09:31:06 AM
Tory Shadow Cabinet, via Dale Smith. (https://twitter.com/journo_dale/status/667708434515697665)

()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 20, 2015, 11:25:32 AM
So Armstrong is in the shadow cabinet. Interesting. I assume he plans on running again. He should have a decent shot if Casey retires.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 20, 2015, 02:12:29 PM
Also, no Kenney on the front bench? Whats up with that?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: The Lord Marbury on November 20, 2015, 07:01:46 PM
Also, no Kenney on the front bench? Whats up with that?

Maybe because its obvious that he's going to run as soon as the moment comes up, so then what's the point if he'll just have to step down in the near future?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on November 23, 2015, 01:36:30 PM
NWT votes in a non-partisan general election today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/20/n-w-t-voters-faces-tough-choices-in-gloomy-election_n_8609244.html

I don't know much about their issues sadly.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on November 23, 2015, 11:06:31 PM
Alberta PC MLA and former Cabinet Minister Manmeet Bhullar was killed tonight when he stopped to help a stranded motorist on the highway (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-conservative-mla-manmeet-bhullar-killed-in-highway-crash-1.3331978)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 01, 2015, 03:29:50 PM
Ottawa-Vanier MP Mauril Belanger has Lou Gehrig's disease.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Crumpets on December 01, 2015, 04:06:59 PM
I'm a bit confused regarding shadow cabinets. Does only the official opposition party create a shadow cabinet, or do all opposition parties? What if a party doesn't have enough seats to create a full cabinet, do they double up?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on December 01, 2015, 05:34:06 PM
I'm a bit confused regarding shadow cabinets. Does only the official opposition party create a shadow cabinet, or do all opposition parties? What if a party doesn't have enough seats to create a full cabinet, do they double up?

all parties have a shadow cabinet that are in the legislature. If a party  such as the BQ does not have a member for each shadow cabinet position, then the party in question  will combine a few positions. Some positions may also be ignored in the shadow cabinet.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 02, 2015, 03:41:30 PM
Parliamentary secretaries, including 3 for JT - Caesar-Chavannes as primary, Vaughan as an alternate for IG of all things. (http://pm.gc.ca/sites/pm/files/docs/secretaires_parlementaires_f.pdf)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: andrew_c on December 03, 2015, 04:08:03 PM
Geoff Regan elected House of Commons Speaker.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 03, 2015, 06:08:18 PM
Geoff Regan elected House of Commons Speaker.

Woot, my MP


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 07, 2015, 11:56:29 AM
QP matchups to watch. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/parliament-government-ministers-critics-question-period-1.3351385)

Math is hard.  (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-to-concede-tax-plan-wont-add-up/article27628146/)

Pink slips and running shoes? (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberals-plan-to-ask-harper-s-patronage-appointments-to-step-aside-source-1.2689361)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 09, 2015, 05:12:20 PM
Quarterly CRA polls are out. They neglected to poll Newfoundland on the usual schedule due to the election.

Nova Scotia
Lib: 64% (+14)
PC: 17% (-3)
NDP: 17% (-11)

New Brunswick
Lib: 55% (+19)
PC: 25% (-3)
NDP: 12% (-13)
Green: 7% (-3)

PEI
Lib: 61% (+15)
PC: 18% (-4)
Green: 11% (-2)
NDP: 9% (-9)

Nothing too interesting. Libs popular, Tories not, promiscusous progs dump NDP for Libs.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 10, 2015, 09:45:44 AM
Unite the Right in Alberta? (http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-growing-anger-at-the-ndp-could-lead-to-conservative-union)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on December 11, 2015, 05:46:18 PM
Unite the Right in Alberta? (http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-growing-anger-at-the-ndp-could-lead-to-conservative-union)

Or maybe not? (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/jean-makes-unite-the-right-overture-but-mlas-arent-so-sure)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on December 11, 2015, 05:57:59 PM
Unite the Right in Alberta? (http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-growing-anger-at-the-ndp-could-lead-to-conservative-union)

Or maybe not? (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/jean-makes-unite-the-right-overture-but-mlas-arent-so-sure)

In other new: new Alberta poll from ThinkHQ (http://thinkhq.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/EOA-December-2015-Prov-HR-Release.pdf) (change from Nov. 2015 in brackets)

Wildrose: 33% (+1)
NDP: 29% (-3)
PC: 25% (+2)
Liberal: 8% (n/c)
Alberta Party: 3% (-1)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 11, 2015, 09:29:23 PM
I've come to the conclusions that 99% of people are complete idiots when it comes to pensions, especially political ones.

A Nova Scotia panel has recommended that the time served for MLA's to get their pension be reduced to two years. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/nova-scotia-mlas-to-get-pension-eligibility-after-2-years-1.2604097) I disagree with the position, but it's not totally unreasonable. More to the point, the panel is suggesting partial pensions that scale up over time

Cue eleventy billion comments about how "I should be an MLA for two years, quit and get a full pension."

>:(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 11, 2015, 10:47:56 PM
So people are threatening to kill Rachel Notley.

I'm pretty pissed off at this. Hoping the RCMP takes names and rounds up these people and makes an example of them.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on December 12, 2015, 12:36:29 AM
So people are threatening to kill Rachel Notley.

I'm pretty pissed off at this. Hoping the RCMP takes names and rounds up these people and makes an example of them.

They won't. Knowing RCMP, it's very possible the threats come from RCMP people.

RCMP. Nasty bunch of people.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on December 12, 2015, 07:45:11 AM
Is all this anger over a farm safety bill? Topkek


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 12, 2015, 12:56:13 PM

Apparently some rednecks think it is LITERALLY genocide.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Simfan34 on December 12, 2015, 04:32:41 PM
So people are threatening to kill Rachel Notley.

I'm pretty pissed off at this. Hoping the RCMP takes names and rounds up these people and makes an example of them.

They won't. Knowing RCMP, it's very possible the threats come from RCMP people.

RCMP. Nasty bunch of people.

...the Mounties?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on December 12, 2015, 06:49:28 PM

Apparently some rednecks think it is LITERALLY genocide.

Essentially, family farmers were concerned that the implementation of the rules would threaten the viability of their farms, and they were highly annoyed by the lack of consultation from the government and the government's refusal to delay passing the bill until after the legislature's winter break.  Then the Wildrose decided to take that simmering anger in the rural areas and whip it up into a frenzy.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on December 12, 2015, 08:17:43 PM

Apparently some rednecks think it is LITERALLY genocide.

Essentially, family farmers were concerned that the implementation of the rules would threaten the viability of their farms, and they were highly annoyed by the lack of consultation from the government and the government's refusal to delay passing the bill until after the legislature's winter break.  Then the Wildrose decided to take that simmering anger in the rural areas and whip it up into a frenzy.

So, what, farmers think it's fine to endanger the security of their own family members if it's for the viability of the farm?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 13, 2015, 08:02:49 AM
Nova Scotia's cyber bullying law has been struck down. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cyberbullying-law-struck-down-1.3360612)

The most bizarre charge under the law involved a high school student posting nude photos of an NDP MLA (she was an actress, and they were stills from a part she played in a movie). Anyway, good riddance. It was a poorly written law.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 13, 2015, 09:01:21 AM

Apparently some rednecks think it is LITERALLY genocide.

Essentially, family farmers were concerned that the implementation of the rules would threaten the viability of their farms, and they were highly annoyed by the lack of consultation from the government and the government's refusal to delay passing the bill until after the legislature's winter break. 

In other words, genocide.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 13, 2015, 10:09:14 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/police-likely-to-investigate-death-threats-against-rachel-notley-security-expert-says-1.3362620?cmp=rss

It doesn't matter if these people are just "howlers" as law enforcement puts it, they should be made an example of. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE for death threats against public figures.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 13, 2015, 01:58:05 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/police-likely-to-investigate-death-threats-against-rachel-notley-security-expert-says-1.3362620?cmp=rss

It doesn't matter if these people are just "howlers" as law enforcement puts it, they should be made an example of. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE for death threats against public figures.

We should probably set up a rotation to visit Hash in Kingston Pen then...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 14, 2015, 08:34:44 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/police-likely-to-investigate-death-threats-against-rachel-notley-security-expert-says-1.3362620?cmp=rss

It doesn't matter if these people are just "howlers" as law enforcement puts it, they should be made an example of. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE for death threats against public figures.

We should probably set up a rotation to visit Hash in Kingston Pen then...

As much as Hash hated Harper, I do not recall any death threats.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Talleyrand on December 14, 2015, 10:09:28 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/police-likely-to-investigate-death-threats-against-rachel-notley-security-expert-says-1.3362620?cmp=rss

It doesn't matter if these people are just "howlers" as law enforcement puts it, they should be made an example of. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE for death threats against public figures.

We should probably set up a rotation to visit Hash in Kingston Pen then...

As much as Hash hated Harper, I do not recall any death threats.

He once made a joke about how Mike Harris be cooked in an oven. Not anywhere close to a death threat, but some people don't understand hyperbole...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on December 15, 2015, 04:14:02 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/police-likely-to-investigate-death-threats-against-rachel-notley-security-expert-says-1.3362620?cmp=rss

It doesn't matter if these people are just "howlers" as law enforcement puts it, they should be made an example of. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE for death threats against public figures.

We should probably set up a rotation to visit Hash in Kingston Pen then...

That would be some kind of sadistic solitary confinement these days. :P

Although it's strangely very pretty these days. I went to school for my B.Ed. basically a block away.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 15, 2015, 07:59:47 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/police-likely-to-investigate-death-threats-against-rachel-notley-security-expert-says-1.3362620?cmp=rss

It doesn't matter if these people are just "howlers" as law enforcement puts it, they should be made an example of. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE for death threats against public figures.

We should probably set up a rotation to visit Hash in Kingston Pen then...

As much as Hash hated Harper, I do not recall any death threats.

He once made a joke about how Mike Harris be cooked in an oven. Not anywhere close to a death threat, but some people don't understand hyperbole...

This would have been after he was Premier, so not as treasonous.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 17, 2015, 09:17:29 AM
Grits worried about an Albertan economic meltdown. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/john-ivison-liberals-fear-alberta-economic-meltdown)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 24, 2015, 08:54:05 AM
Defeated Tory MP Steven Fletcher will be acclaimed as the PC candidate in Assiniboia for the next Manitoba provincial election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on December 28, 2015, 06:05:46 PM
 Romeo Saganash MP (NDP, Abitibi-Baie James-Nunavik-Eeyou) won't seek a 3rd term in 2019. (http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Politique/2015/12/27/002-saganash-romeo-quitte-vie-politique-npd.shtml)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 02, 2016, 03:23:23 PM
Will Trudeau loosen the PMO reins? Believe if seen.
 (http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/01/will-justin-trudeau-keep-his-promise-to-loosen-pmos-grip-delacourt.html)

No surprise that Trudeau shrunk from pink slips and running shoes, at least so far. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-wont-force-tory-appointed-neb-members-to-step-down/article27986653/)

Trudeaus vacationing in St. Kitts-Nevis.  (http://timescaribbeanonline.com/2016/01/01/canadian-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-on-vacation-in-the-beautiful-paradise-of-st-kitts-nevis/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 03, 2016, 03:48:42 PM
Fife said 5 senators will be appointed this month.

Seamus O'Regan tweeted that he's entering a treatment program to adopt an alcohol-free lifestyle, will be back for Parliament's return. Best wishes to him.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 05, 2016, 05:56:10 AM
The NS NDP leadership election will be on Feb 27th, and will use IRV. (http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1330102-howe-room-preferential-ballot-adds-new-twist-to-ndp-race)

Tl;dr of the linked article:

Burrill: Left wing socialist
Wilson: Dexter-wing, centrist
Zann: In between


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on January 05, 2016, 11:56:38 AM

He doesn't sound that left wing, from what I've read.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 05, 2016, 07:43:19 PM

He doesn't sound that left wing, from what I've read.

It's Nova Scotia. No one's very anything.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 05, 2016, 09:12:57 PM
Trudeau aiming for a Chinese FTA. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/trudeau-sets-sights-on-free-trade-deal-with-china/article28029612/?cmpid=rss1)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on January 05, 2016, 09:41:13 PM
Jean-François Fortin, founder and leader of Forces et Démocratie is leaving politics.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 06, 2016, 06:18:44 PM
Jean-François Fortin, founder and leader of Forces et Démocratie is leaving politics.

It's fitting as the voters left him.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 06, 2016, 06:21:50 PM
The NS NDP leadership election will be on Feb 27th, and will use IRV. (http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1330102-howe-room-preferential-ballot-adds-new-twist-to-ndp-race)

Tl;dr of the linked article:

Burrill: Left wing socialist
Wilson: Dexter-wing, centrist
Zann: In between

Hardly got any coverage as they said it wouldn't be held until 2017.  Was the date just announced?  I would have assumed based on the lack of coverage (and likely lack of interest in the general public) that they'd have waited until at least May.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 06, 2016, 06:23:03 PM
Not on the Nanos website yet:
http://www.news1130.com/2016/01/06/weak-economy-and-low-loonie-not-hurting-trudeau-governments-popularity/

"Around 60 per cent of people surveyed by Nanos Research say they’re remarkably happy with what Justin Trudeau’s government is doing. (I think 'remarkably happy' is the reporter Simon Druker's term and is not from Nanos.)

Just over that number feel Canada is moving in the right direction."


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 09, 2016, 03:50:23 PM
I just did the math and I am a 8 hour drive from the nearest non-Liberal seat (Rimouski)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 12, 2016, 07:57:38 AM
Mulcair is safe. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/lack-of-a-leadership-rival-boosts-mulcairs-odds-of-survival/article28117300/)

Uniting the Albertan right will have to be done the hard way, as was always the case. (http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-will-jason-kenney-ride-in-to-save-alberta-conservatism) Preferable IMO. Dunno where the idea of federal Tories joining the Progs came from.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 12, 2016, 01:16:42 PM
Mulcair is safe. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/lack-of-a-leadership-rival-boosts-mulcairs-odds-of-survival/article28117300/)

I said from the start that whether Mulcair stays or goes will be left up to him, and I don't know if he's decided on that (actually I said originally that the genuine 'socialists' in the NDP would likely try to get him to step down.)

I think he deserves another shot because while Einstein said "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity" going through two elections with the same things is not 'over and over.'

Nik Nanos said something like "Thomas Mulcair is well respected by the public and they had no problems with the NDP platform, the problem for him was just that they preferred Justin Trudeau as the alternative to Harper."

Mulcair needs to improve his debate performances according to the experts (although I personally thought he was fine in the debates), but if the Liberals are unpopular after four years, Mulcair could run on the exact same platform and get a completely different result.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 12, 2016, 02:07:08 PM
Until the NDP can get a Corbyn or a Sanders type to replace Mulair, they will have to hold their noses a keep him.

The problem for the NDP is that the Liberals have shifted to the left in their attempts to prevent the right-drifting NDP from winning. It worked, so the NDP will have to go to the left in their rhetoric. It won't necessarily win them an election, but it will get some much needed momentum behind them, enough to be able to play king maker in a minority government if we ever get proportional representation.

Hopefully for the NDP's sake, the Liberal's will do as they always do, and govern on the right (no indication of this yet), and so won't have to go too far to the left in the next campaign.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 12, 2016, 02:45:05 PM
Until the NDP can get a Corbyn or a Sanders type to replace Mulair, they will have to hold their noses a keep him.

The problem for the NDP is that the Liberals have shifted to the left in their attempts to prevent the right-drifting NDP from winning. It worked, so the NDP will have to go to the left in their rhetoric. It won't necessarily win them an election, but it will get some much needed momentum behind them, enough to be able to play king maker in a minority government if we ever get proportional representation.

Hopefully for the NDP's sake, the Liberal's will do as they always do, and govern on the right (no indication of this yet), and so won't have to go too far to the left in the next campaign.

The NDP strategists seem to think that the Liberals can campaign on the left because the public believes they have (some) credibility on economics and finance, but that their own party lacks this credibility.  An NDP running on the left would probably result in them getting 10-15% of the vote, depending on how the Liberals have governed and how far to the left they go.

Of course, you're the polling expert, not me, so I could be wrong.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 12, 2016, 03:14:46 PM
If they run a left wing populist campaign, they would get more than 15% of the vote. If Corbyn and Sanders can do it...

Of course, if they just run a boring old school NDP campaign, then yes, expect the same results as the in the 1990s.

Such a populist approach is untested in modern Canadian politics, so don't trust my polling expertise on this one. I'm just observing what's going on in the rest of the Anglosphere.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 12, 2016, 05:06:37 PM
If they run a left wing populist campaign, they would get more than 15% of the vote. If Corbyn and Sanders can do it...

Of course, if they just run a boring old school NDP campaign, then yes, expect the same results as the in the 1990s.

Such a populist approach is untested in modern Canadian politics, so don't trust my polling expertise on this one. I'm just observing what's going on in the rest of the Anglosphere.

Corbyn and Sanders haven't faced a general election yet.  Also, they are running in mostly two party nations (though I think Corbyn could bring the Liberal Democrats back from the (near) dead.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on January 12, 2016, 06:32:40 PM
I'm certainly going to hope the Liberals govern left, even if that means the NDP won't have a shot in 2019. They should always try to always stay measurably to the left of the liberals in any situation. Left wing populism, as Hatman said, will get better results than being Liberal lite.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 13, 2016, 05:12:32 AM
I'm certainly going to hope the Liberals govern left, even if that means the NDP won't have a shot in 2019. They should always try to always stay measurably to the left of the liberals in any situation. Left wing populism, as Hatman said, will get better results than being Liberal lite.

Well I'd rather all the parties propose realistic solutions to what they regard as genuine societal problems from their ideological perspective.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 13, 2016, 06:48:10 AM
If they run a left wing populist campaign, they would get more than 15% of the vote. If Corbyn and Sanders can do it...

Of course, if they just run a boring old school NDP campaign, then yes, expect the same results as the in the 1990s.

Such a populist approach is untested in modern Canadian politics, so don't trust my polling expertise on this one. I'm just observing what's going on in the rest of the Anglosphere.

Corbyn and Sanders haven't faced a general election yet.  Also, they are running in mostly two party nations (though I think Corbyn could bring the Liberal Democrats back from the (near) dead.

The difference is that the NDP are languishing in 3rd place, while Corbyn and Sanders are leading or trying to be the nominee of major parties. The expectations are different. Michael Foote's campaign in 1983, was a total disaster, but I'm sure the NDP would be happy take 27% and Official Opposition today.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 13, 2016, 12:33:34 PM
Being a left wing populist in the 1980s is a big difference than being a left wing populist in the 2010s.

Anyways, let's not forget that my point is that running a left wing populist campaign will not win the NDP the next election, it will just save them from irrelevancy. Running as "Liberal lite" will have to wait until the actual Liberals become unpopular again.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 13, 2016, 08:36:15 PM
Tory leadership vote next spring. Bernier and Leitch are running, MacKay/Raitt/Clement likely. Many think Kenney won't run. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/john-ivison-conservative-leadership-contest-already-fractious)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 13, 2016, 09:00:00 PM
Tory leadership vote next spring. Bernier and Leitch are running, MacKay/Raitt/Clement likely. Many think Kenney won't run. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/john-ivison-conservative-leadership-contest-already-fractious)

Well, my vote is up for grabs assuming Kenney stays out.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 14, 2016, 02:44:03 PM
McGregor has a slightly different take on Tory leadership, though as always I trust Ivison a hella lot more. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/tories-consider-kicking-off-leadership-race-next-month)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 14, 2016, 05:31:09 PM
One PKP is bad enough. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/michael-den-tandt-why-fire-breathing-kevin-oleary-is-a-good-fit-for-conservative-leader)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 15, 2016, 01:27:17 PM
Abacus: Outside Alberta, Trudeaumania continues despite a worsening economy.  (http://abacusdata.ca/how-do-we-feel-about-the-trudeau-government/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 16, 2016, 07:29:45 AM
Abacus: Outside Alberta, Trudeaumania continues despite a worsening economy.  (http://abacusdata.ca/how-do-we-feel-about-the-trudeau-government/)

Related to the NDP's woes, I note that Trudeau has a near 60% approval rating among 2015 NDP voters. That will have to change if they want to do well. OTOH Trudeau has a 15% approval rating among 2015 Conservative voters, which suggests the Tories are close to their floor.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 16, 2016, 07:33:59 AM
Anyways, let's not forget that my point is that running a left wing populist campaign will not win the NDP the next election, it will just save them from irrelevancy. Running as "Liberal lite" will have to wait until the actual Liberals become unpopular again.

One small advantage the NDP will have next time, is that they will be the only major party criticizing the government from the left. So long as the Tories were in power, they had to compete with the Liberals to voice certain kinds of criticism. Now it's more open, as it's not like the Tories are going to start complaining about "tax cuts for the rich". :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 16, 2016, 10:38:21 AM
Meet our new ambassadors to the US and UN. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-picks-close-allies-as-ambassadors-to-us-and-un/article28231669/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 16, 2016, 11:18:37 AM
Peter Stoffer has found a new job (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/veterans-legal-fund-1.3405286)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 18, 2016, 09:26:39 AM
Kudos to him.
 (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/01/18/seamus-oregan-returning-to-work-after-seeking-treatment-for-an-alcohol-problem-3/#.VpzzG_krKUl)
Hmm. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/once-ensconced-in-stornoway-mulcair-now-living-out-of-ottawa-hotels)

NDP will drift into keeping Mulcair. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/01/18/mulcairs-next-job-is-proving-he-deserves-another-chance-tim-harper.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 18, 2016, 06:03:03 PM
Trudeau will be busy in Davos (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/john-ivison-trudeau-to-lean-on-heaviest-hitters-imaginable-in-attempt-to-rebrand-canadas-economy-at-davos), and steady as he goes on infrastructure. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/01/18/liberal-cabinet-meets-amid-gloomy-economic-new-to-lay-out-plans-for-2016/#.Vp1sMTbSmP9)
5 day refugee pause in some cities due to a housing backlog. (http://globalnews.ca/news/2461465/5-day-moratorium-on-arrival-of-government-sponsored-syrian-refugees-set-to-begin-tuesday-iss/)
O'Regan interview. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/mp-seamus-o-regan-alcohol-treatment-1.3408277)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 18, 2016, 10:38:00 PM
The NDP should buy a house somewhere in Ottawa for use of future leaders. Call it Douglas House or something.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 19, 2016, 07:24:04 AM
Ottawa set to lift sanctions on Iran, Tories being hypocritical jerks yet again: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-could-lift-sanctions-against-iran-following-landmark-deal-by-us/article28233774/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-could-lift-sanctions-against-iran-following-landmark-deal-by-us/article28233774/)

Navdeep Bains hints that Iran is a potential market for Bombardier: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/minister-sees-iran-thaw-as-opportunity-for-canadian-aerospace-industry/article28253293/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/minister-sees-iran-thaw-as-opportunity-for-canadian-aerospace-industry/article28253293/)

Moodys downgrades Alberta credit rating: http://ipolitics.ca/2016/01/18/moodys-adjusts-outlook-for-alberta-to-negative-rating-still-triple-a/ (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/01/18/moodys-adjusts-outlook-for-alberta-to-negative-rating-still-triple-a/)

Conservatives in denial that they lost the election, Exhibit #756: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rona-ambrose-economy-1.3408606 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rona-ambrose-economy-1.3408606)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 19, 2016, 06:31:40 PM
A quack was appointed to the Senate advisory board. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/the-gargoyle-senate-appointments-panelist-uses-discredited-pseudoscience-to-recover-past-lives-treat-phobias)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 22, 2016, 05:00:50 PM
Elementary school shooting in SK, 5 dead, 2 wounded.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on January 22, 2016, 07:41:39 PM
Elementary school shooting in SK, 5 dead, 2 wounded.

High school, in fact.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 23, 2016, 08:37:07 AM
A quack was appointed to the Senate advisory board. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/the-gargoyle-senate-appointments-panelist-uses-discredited-pseudoscience-to-recover-past-lives-treat-phobias)

Even leaving out the people who believe in the literal word of the Bible for which there is zero evidence for, according to studies virtually every single person believes at least a few weird things.

Just because this woman is more open about her views does not necessarily make her any stranger than anybody else and should not be an automatic disqualification.

For instance, depending on the poll question, at the height of the '9/11 truther movement' a large number of Canadians believed in several of the conspiracy theories:

"A September 2008 Angus Reid poll showed that 39 percent of respondents either disagree or are unsure that al-Qaeda carried out the attacks. About a third of those surveyed believed the U.S. government allowed the attacks to happen and 16 percent believe the U.S. government made the attacks happen."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories#Canada

I can't find the poll again, but a large number of Canadians also believed that the World Trade Center was brought down by a 'controlled demolition' and not as a result of the planes crashing into the buildings and the subsequent fire.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 24, 2016, 09:19:28 AM
A quack was appointed to the Senate advisory board. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/the-gargoyle-senate-appointments-panelist-uses-discredited-pseudoscience-to-recover-past-lives-treat-phobias)

Even leaving out the people who believe in the literal word of the Bible for which there is zero evidence for, according to studies virtually every single person believes at least a few weird things.

Just because this woman is more open about her views does not necessarily make her any stranger than anybody else and should not be an automatic disqualification.

If right wingers can be criticized for harbouring creationists, it is perfectly reasonable to pick on lefties for harbouring hippy dippy types.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 24, 2016, 09:24:51 AM
Denis Coderre: First of all, you have to allow me a moment to laugh at a guy like Brian Jean, when he says he relies on science. These are probably the same people who think the Flintstones is a documentary.. (http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/01/22/denis-coderre-brian-jean-among-those-who-think-the-flintstones-is-a-documenary)

Since when did Coderre hire Warren Kinsella as an adviser?

Jean: I'm not going to take environmental lessons from a mayor that will release eight billion litres of raw sewage into the river right in front of his community (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-wildrose-leader-accuses-montreal-mayor-of-gutter-politics-1.3414815)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 24, 2016, 10:53:58 AM
A quack was appointed to the Senate advisory board. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/the-gargoyle-senate-appointments-panelist-uses-discredited-pseudoscience-to-recover-past-lives-treat-phobias)

Even leaving out the people who believe in the literal word of the Bible for which there is zero evidence for, according to studies virtually every single person believes at least a few weird things.

Just because this woman is more open about her views does not necessarily make her any stranger than anybody else and should not be an automatic disqualification.

If right wingers can be criticized for harbouring creationists, it is perfectly reasonable to pick on lefties for harbouring hippy dippy types.

1.In any federal election there are always a fair number of Conservatives candidates with publicly stated religious views and I've never heard anybody say they shouldn't be allowed to run if some of those might be odd.

2.I never heard any demands on Stephen Harper to resign as Conservative leader when he signed a party fundraising letter (or more likely an automatic pen signed his name to it, but he's still responsible for it) that called Kyoto 'a socialist scheme.'

3.Most people refer to them as 'new agers' not 'hippy dippy types.'  I don't care for 'new age' thinking myself, but I tend to find that most people who hold these views are no more or less rational than anybody else on other things.  So, just because she has odd views in these areas does not automatically prove she is unable to choose people who would make capable senators as per Justin Trudeau's definition of 'capable.'

Also, unlike an M.P who vote on issues where their beliefs that the earth is 6,000 years old or something may influence their votes, I fail to see how this woman's 'new age' beliefs could effect her very limited role of helping to choose 'capable non partisan upstanding Canadians' as senators.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 24, 2016, 11:05:36 AM
Elementary school shooting in SK, 5 dead, 2 wounded.

The new NDP M.P,  for the riding where this terrible incident occurred, Georgina Jolibois, was previously the mayor of the town where it occurred (La Loche.)  Hopefully she can provide some insight to the government.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 25, 2016, 12:21:37 PM
A quack was appointed to the Senate advisory board. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/the-gargoyle-senate-appointments-panelist-uses-discredited-pseudoscience-to-recover-past-lives-treat-phobias)

Even leaving out the people who believe in the literal word of the Bible for which there is zero evidence for, according to studies virtually every single person believes at least a few weird things.

Just because this woman is more open about her views does not necessarily make her any stranger than anybody else and should not be an automatic disqualification.

If right wingers can be criticized for harbouring creationists, it is perfectly reasonable to pick on lefties for harbouring hippy dippy types.

1.In any federal election there are always a fair number of Conservatives candidates with publicly stated religious views and I've never heard anybody say they shouldn't be allowed to run if some of those might be odd.

2.I never heard any demands on Stephen Harper to resign as Conservative leader when he signed a party fundraising letter (or more likely an automatic pen signed his name to it, but he's still responsible for it) that called Kyoto 'a socialist scheme.'

3.Most people refer to them as 'new agers' not 'hippy dippy types.'  I don't care for 'new age' thinking myself, but I tend to find that most people who hold these views are no more or less rational than anybody else on other things.  So, just because she has odd views in these areas does not automatically prove she is unable to choose people who would make capable senators as per Justin Trudeau's definition of 'capable.'

Also, unlike an M.P who vote on issues where their beliefs that the earth is 6,000 years old or something may influence their votes, I fail to see how this woman's 'new age' beliefs could effect her very limited role of helping to choose 'capable non partisan upstanding Canadians' as senators.

You're missing the point and reading far too much into my comment Adam.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 25, 2016, 12:22:15 PM
In other news Peter MacKay has taken a job with a Bay street law firm.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 26, 2016, 03:57:41 PM
Iranian sanctions will be lifted. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/ottawa-confirms-plan-to-lift-sanctions-against-iran/article28399708/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe)

DC: Hilarious thing is that Kinsella agrees with Jean, not Coderre.

PKP and Snyder have split again. Been intermittent for 15 years.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on January 26, 2016, 04:05:11 PM
Labeaume (Quebec City's mayor) is neutral on Energy East, saying he is for pipelines in general, but saying than Transcanada is incompetent.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 27, 2016, 04:41:22 AM
Labeaume (Quebec City's mayor) is neutral on Energy East, saying he is for pipelines in general, but saying than Transcanada is incompetent.

This is the position I've been posting on Twitter and in news stories. I told Michelle Rempel that she shouldn't be a cheerleader for a private corporation and got a typical juvenile response from her (the Captain Pickard holding his head in frustration picture.)

There was a major CBC expose in 2011 of how either the government or civil servants in the government had covered up evidence of poor practices at TransCanada Pipelines.

I'm not surprised that idiot Terry Glavin is a mindless proponent of Energy East, but I was surprised both Lawrence Martin and even Rick Mercer support the Energy East as if this is a public work project and not a project that will primarily benefit for-profit corporations.

Andew Coyne seemed to be unhappy the government position is to wait for the NEB process to unfold and wants the Liberals to prejudge their report.

I don't think TransCanada is incompetent as much as they put short term profits ahead of long term interests, both their own long term interests and societal long term interests.

I'd support Energy East if all the senior executives and directors at TransCanada were fired.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 27, 2016, 07:04:55 PM
Justin's meeting Notley next week, and there will be an environmental First Ministers Conference in March.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 29, 2016, 10:33:56 PM
Still think Mulcair survives. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-the-ndps-postelection-malaise-could-doom-mulcair/article28470793/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 01, 2016, 08:10:09 AM
Feds still studying the sharing economy. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/02/01/ottawa-examines-challenges-of-disruptive-expanding-sharing-economy.html)

Kuwaiti arms deal going ahead. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-pushes-military-deals-with-kuwait-despite-un-concerns/article28475526/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on February 06, 2016, 05:58:28 PM
New Alberta provincial poll from Mainstreet: (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/albertas-ndp-falls-to-third/)

Decided voters:
WRP: 33%
PC: 31%
NDP: 27%
ALP: 5%
AP: 4%


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 06, 2016, 05:59:46 PM
Necromancy is in the air.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 08, 2016, 09:28:04 AM
Law enforcement concerned about chaos over pot legalization. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-vow-to-legalize-pot-creating-chaos-police-say/article28641321/)

Citizenship Act overhaul, including language requirement elimination, inbound.
 (http://www.hilltimes.com/news/news/2016/02/08/mccallum-promises-radical-changes-to-citizenship-act/45180)

Agreed. (http://www.canada.com/news/michael+tandt+trudeau+could+with+little+less+sunshine/11703807/story.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: President Punxsutawney Phil on February 11, 2016, 10:29:29 AM
New Alberta provincial poll from Mainstreet: (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/albertas-ndp-falls-to-third/)

Decided voters:
WRP: 33%
PC: 31%
NDP: 27%
ALP: 5%
AP: 4%
What chances do the NDP have to get re-elected with these numbers?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 11, 2016, 02:23:06 PM
New Alberta provincial poll from Mainstreet: (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/albertas-ndp-falls-to-third/)

Decided voters:
WRP: 33%
PC: 31%
NDP: 27%
ALP: 5%
AP: 4%
What chances do the NDP have to get re-elected with these numbers?

Probably not great,  especially as their support is concentrated in the Edmonton region, but given that the next Alberta election isn't for a little more than three years, I'd say your question is a little premature.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on February 12, 2016, 05:12:38 PM
New Alberta provincial poll from Mainstreet: (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/albertas-ndp-falls-to-third/)

Decided voters:
WRP: 33%
PC: 31%
NDP: 27%
ALP: 5%
AP: 4%
What chances do the NDP have to get re-elected with these numbers?

Probably not great,  especially as their support is concentrated in the Edmonton region, but given that the next Alberta election isn't for a little more than three years, I'd say your question is a little premature.

^Pretty much that.  The poll still shows the NDP at nearly 50% in Edmonton, so they could still easily win 18-25 seats in the greater Edmonton areas, but beyond that, their prospects would be pretty bleak.   


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 13, 2016, 09:19:27 AM
Agreed with Hébert (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/02/13/hbert.html), Coyne (http://www.canada.com/news/national/andrew+coyne+bombardier+bailout+just+more+same/11716648/story.html) and Simpson. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/is-mulcair-prepared-for-perpetual-opposition/article28747088/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 18, 2016, 07:48:27 AM
Ottawa looking to ink a carbon pricing deal with the provinces. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-seeks-to-set-national-minimum-on-carbon-pricing/article28792641/)


TFW program being reviewed. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/temporary-foreign-workers-program-faces-federal-review/article28792323/)

GIS being upped. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-signals-increase-to-benefits-for-low-income-seniors/article28791239/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 20, 2016, 08:05:38 AM
Forum: (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/02/19/forum-research-poll-liberals-would-win-70-of-seats-in-election-today.html) 49/32/10. Unfortunately, I doubt we see Grit Inc. style results for anyone in the foreseeable future.

Not dangerous but interesting. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/02/20/trudeau-government-starting-to-live-dangerously-hbert.html)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 22, 2016, 08:02:30 AM
Morneau will release updated numbers this week (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/02/21/finance-minister-to-spell-out-canadas-downgraded-economic-outlook-source/#.VssGS_krKUm), and Brison will table the estimates. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/treasury-board-estimates-budget-reform-1.3455511)

Wynne apologizing for Regulation 17 today. (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/kathleen-wynne-apology-francophone-french-education-regulation-17-1.3457990)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 23, 2016, 07:40:35 AM
Hébert on the budget. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/02/23/liberals-might-have-to-bluff-a-little-while-playing-shaky-fiscal-hand-hbert.html)

Alberta to get $250M. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-to-give-alberta-250-million-boost/article28846943/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on February 24, 2016, 12:31:12 AM
Still think Mulcair survives. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-the-ndps-postelection-malaise-could-doom-mulcair/article28470793/)

My prediction:  Mulcair gets 81% at leadership review.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 26, 2016, 08:48:37 AM
Don Getty has died at 82.  (http://globalnews.ca/news/2542140/former-alberta-premier-don-getty-dies-at-82/?sf21580761=1)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2016, 08:06:29 AM
Gary Burrill has been elected Nova Scotia NDP leader.  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ndp-leadership-nova-scotia-zann-burrill-wilson-1.3465722)Bit of a throwback pick since he's a hardline socialist from the religious left.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 02, 2016, 09:27:41 AM
Continental environmental strategy incoming. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-obama-set-to-endorse-continental-strategy-on-climate-change/article28991505/)

Food for thought. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-a-method-in-trudeaus-pipeline-madness)

Forum-ON: (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2470/brown-seen-as-best-premier-by-wide-margin-wynnes-approvals-plummet) 44/27/23. Wynne loathed at 67% disapproval.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 05, 2016, 07:23:32 AM
Environmental holding pattern. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/premiers-climate-change-meeting-long-on-principles-short-on-specifics/article29040659/)

Believe Mulcair loses when seen. Hudak got 78% in '12. Ironically, Edmonton is where Clark lost his leadership... (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/03/04/analysis-mulcair-faces-uphill-battle-in-edmonton.html)

Yeah, the usual (and logical, IMO) pattern is wiping them out. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/history-isnt-on-the-side-of-a-pc-wildrose-party-merger/article29040098/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 11, 2016, 12:34:47 PM
Quebec's unemployment rate is lower than Alberta's for the first time in 30 years. Halifax is a solid 1.5% below Calgary. No schadenfreude for me though as my brother in law was just laid off there :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 12, 2016, 04:50:37 PM
Quebec's unemployment rate is lower than Alberta's for the first time in 30 years. Halifax is a solid 1.5% below Calgary. No schadenfreude for me though as my brother in law was just laid off there :(

Isn't Halifax a fairly wealthy city?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 12, 2016, 05:05:54 PM
Quebec's unemployment rate is lower than Alberta's for the first time in 30 years. Halifax is a solid 1.5% below Calgary. No schadenfreude for me though as my brother in law was just laid off there :(

Isn't Halifax a fairly wealthy city?

Yes. We certainly aren't as well off as the oil producing parts of the country, but its definitely easier to achieve a middle class lifestyle than in Toronto or Vancouver. Household incomes are comparable to Toronto or Vancouver, but you can buy a detached house 20 minutes from downtown for 250k.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on March 12, 2016, 06:03:28 PM
Quebec's unemployment rate is lower than Alberta's for the first time in 30 years. Halifax is a solid 1.5% below Calgary. No schadenfreude for me though as my brother in law was just laid off there :(

Maybe we will see a flood of Albertans rushing to Quebec and Atlantic Canada to find work :P. Would be interesting to see the West becoming stagnant with a booming East.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on March 12, 2016, 06:45:53 PM
Quebec's unemployment rate is lower than Alberta's for the first time in 30 years. Halifax is a solid 1.5% below Calgary. No schadenfreude for me though as my brother in law was just laid off there :(

Maybe we will see a flood of Albertans rushing to Quebec and Atlantic Canada to find work :P. Would be interesting to see the West becoming stagnant with a booming East.

I won't be happy until that putrid Brad Wall is forced to be nice to the East.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 12, 2016, 07:01:40 PM
Very sobering Maclean's long read on NB. (http://www.macleans.ca/economy/can-anything-save-new-brunswick/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on March 12, 2016, 08:13:43 PM
Quebec's unemployment rate is lower than Alberta's for the first time in 30 years. Halifax is a solid 1.5% below Calgary. No schadenfreude for me though as my brother in law was just laid off there :(

Isn't Halifax a fairly wealthy city?

Yes. We certainly aren't as well off as the oil producing parts of the country, but its definitely easier to achieve a middle class lifestyle than in Toronto or Vancouver. Household incomes are comparable to Toronto or Vancouver, but you can buy a detached house 20 minutes from downtown for 250k.

Maybe I'll head out to the east coast, haha. Life in Toronto and Vancouver has made me feel pretty dejected about my future. I don't know if there's enough going on in Halifax for me to be perfectly happy, but... house prices in vancouver are ridiculous.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 14, 2016, 05:32:44 PM
Ontario will be experimenting with a guaranteed minimum income. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-will-test-idea-of-a-guaranteed-minimum-income-to-ease-poverty-spending-on-social-programs) Feds might too.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on March 14, 2016, 08:16:08 PM
Ontario will be experimenting with a guaranteed minimum income. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-will-test-idea-of-a-guaranteed-minimum-income-to-ease-poverty-spending-on-social-programs) Feds might too.

That's awesome!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 14, 2016, 08:26:37 PM
Would be ironic since another Trudeau rejected that idea when first mooted 40-odd years ago.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on March 14, 2016, 08:33:03 PM
Would be ironic since another Trudeau rejected that idea when first mooted 40-odd years ago.

Hey, if Andrew Cuomo and Evan Bayh can piss on their fathers' legacies, I don't see why Justin couldn't improve on his.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 14, 2016, 08:40:24 PM
Ironic because Justin is much more Chretien's ideological heir than his dad's. At any rate, a larger "kill the NDP" strategy, if this is a prelude to that, is something I'd be highly skeptical of.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 14, 2016, 08:40:26 PM
Ontario will be experimenting with a guaranteed minimum income. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-will-test-idea-of-a-guaranteed-minimum-income-to-ease-poverty-spending-on-social-programs) Feds might too.

That's awesome!

As with the Ontario Liberals' pension reforms, the devil is in the details... I like the idea but I'm not confident that Wynne will execute it well.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on March 14, 2016, 09:43:51 PM
Can anyone give me a quick summary of what Trudeau has actually done since become Prime Minister, and what his big proposals are?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on March 14, 2016, 11:15:59 PM
Ontario will be experimenting with a guaranteed minimum income. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-will-test-idea-of-a-guaranteed-minimum-income-to-ease-poverty-spending-on-social-programs) Feds might too.

That's awesome!

As with the Ontario Liberals' pension reforms, the devil is in the details... I like the idea but I'm not confident that Wynne will execute it well.

Looks like Wynne's re-election strategy is well underway. She will pray to God (which she nominally believes in) that her plan to balance the budget by FY17/18 will run its course. She will implement measures such as this and the university tuition program to bolster her progressive credentials which were badly damaged by selling off Hydro. She will then repeat the 2007/11/14 re-election strategy of seizing on Tory stupidity (this time probably through their candidates rather than the leader) to retain the loyalties of centrist voters.

And presto (which, like everything else her government touched, costed way over budget), the OLP becomes the Natural Governing Party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 15, 2016, 05:48:29 PM
Good: feds easing path for international students' permanent residency. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-looks-to-ease-international-students-path-to-permanent-residency/article29242266/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 15, 2016, 07:18:23 PM
Can anyone give me a quick summary of what Trudeau has actually done since become Prime Minister, and what his big proposals are?

Stuff he's done
1) Cut taxes in the 45-90k bracket, raise taxes for people making over 200k

2) Inquiries into the high death and disappearance rates of aboriginal women

To come
3) Consolidating several child benefits into one program. Removing the universal element and making the whole thing income based.

4) Legalizing marijuana

Long term goals
5) Changing the electoral system from FPTP to IRV

6) Expanding the Canada Pension Plan

Other posters feel free to chime in.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 15, 2016, 09:13:16 PM
The tax cut was supposed to pay itself by a tax increase in higher bracker but it turns out it will not be true and this promise will add to the deficit.

One big promise was to invest more in infrastructure.

Things being done:
Reinstate the mandatory long form census
Moratorium on eliminating home delivery of mail (reinstating or what happens in the future remains to be seen)
No toll to be put on the Champlain bridge linking Montreal to the south suburbs
End air strikes mission against ISIS


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on March 15, 2016, 10:12:54 PM
Thanks!

So nothing earth-shaking. I was wondering if there might be, since this was the first big change in Canada's politics in a while, and he seems like a young/charismatic/progressive leader. But Canada is too close to perfect that it doesn't need any fundamental reforms, it seems, at least compared to the USA :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on March 15, 2016, 10:33:49 PM
Has Bieber's war on FPTP sunk down to provinical level yet?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 15, 2016, 11:08:32 PM
One big promise that will not be respected is running a "modest" budget deficit of up to $10 billion in the first two years of the mandate and I think a balanced budget in the fourth year. The deficit in the upcoming budget will be higher than that. People may not mind because there will be money for projects and programmes and investment instead of cuts and spending restraint.

The Parliament Budget Officer told La Presse according to the numbers from the Finance Department, the Conservatives have balanced the budget in 2015-2016. There is a surplus after the first 9 months of the fiscal year. 

http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/canada/201603/15/01-4960825-les-conservateurs-avaient-equilibre-le-budget.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=lapresseaffaires_LA5_nouvelles_98718_accueil_POS15 (http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/canada/201603/15/01-4960825-les-conservateurs-avaient-equilibre-le-budget.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=lapresseaffaires_LA5_nouvelles_98718_accueil_POS15)

One key message I remember hearing in the liberal ads is middle class parents would have more money in their pockets.

To follow the the completion of promises there is the Trudeau polimeter of Université Laval Political Science Dept.
https://www.poltext.org/en/polimeter (https://www.poltext.org/en/polimeter)

And the Trudeaumetre website
https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/ (https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/)

 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 16, 2016, 05:28:21 AM
Has Bieber's war on FPTP sunk down to provinical level yet?

Not really, no. Actually things are worse than a few years ago when a few provinces put on (failed) electoral reform referendums.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 16, 2016, 06:14:19 PM
I've answered an Ipsos poll about the future federal budget. I had to rank 15 priorities, give opinion on different size of deficit number and if I agree on different statements. I hope it was for a media and made public before the next budget.

Will the NDP send itself into a leadership contest ? Some socialist wing wants new leadership. There was also an open letter by 35 NDP members in Quebec saying they don't recognize their party, they want to rebuild the party on its founding values and the party should be more progressive, democratic and transparent. They don't ask for a new leader explicitly but the timing is strange. They could speak within the party at the convention. 40% of them are from NDG-Westmount riding and the vast majority have non- francophone names.

Niki Ashton wouldn't say if she will support Mulcair for leader. Is that because she is interested in the job?

I don't know if the NDP has some mechanism to change leader later but I think it's too soon. Maybe Mulcair will decide before the next election to leave leadership if he sees no improvement. Selecting a new leader should be done later to see what happens in a year or two. You could attract people outside of caucus. Right now probably not possible to choose someone outside caucus. Later you also know who will be the Conservative leader. You know what type of person, or from what region could lead the party to electoral gains.   


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 17, 2016, 12:11:43 PM
Provincial news: PLQ bigwigs and a PQ fonctionnaire arrested by UPAC.
 (http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/high-ranking-liberals-including-nathalie-normandeau-arrested-by-upac-reports)
OAS eligibility age will be reset to 65. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-economy-bloomberg-new-york-1.3495331)

Agreed w/Hebert as usual. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/03/17/cold-reality-awaits-new-democrats-rethinking-partys-future-hbert.html)

An Ottawan Mountie committed suicide. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/03/17/rcmp-member-takes-own-life-near-parliament-hill.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 18, 2016, 09:20:13 PM
OAS eligibility age will be reset to 65. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-economy-bloomberg-new-york-1.3495331)

One of the most fiscally ridiculous and regressive actions of the Liberals to date. Younger seniors as a group are one of the wealthiest demographics in the country. Fixing a retirement system under strain in large part due to low birth rates by transferring funds from folks in their childbearing years is just silly.

The correct solution IMO (and I said this when Harper was in power as well) is to reduce the clawback threshold on OAS. I have clients with household incomes around $100k who still receive their full pension. Such folks do not need income top ups.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 18, 2016, 09:33:47 PM
The Liberals are going to drive this country bankrupt in their attempt to out left the NDP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 19, 2016, 07:37:19 AM
Tiptoeing, but I agree with DC.

Somewhere Harper chuckles to himself. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/03/19/keep-unmuzzled-scientists-on-tight-leash-senior-civil-servants-warn-liberals.html)

Julian endorses Mulcair's leadership. (http://www.thetyee.ca/Opinion/2016/03/19/We-Need-Tom-Mulcair/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 19, 2016, 08:09:30 AM
For the record, I am divided about getting rid of Mulcair. On paper he should go, but who replaces him?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 19, 2016, 06:44:40 PM
For the record, I am divided about getting rid of Mulcair. On paper he should go, but who replaces him?

If I was in the NDP, I would vote to keep him.

Mulcair was hampered by the public's perceptions of the two progressive parties. Similar to how it took Nixon to go to China, it took the Liberals to take a step to the left. The NDP simply didn't have the same fiscal credibility to pull off what Trudeau did.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 19, 2016, 08:25:10 PM
Panzergirl was in town today as part of an EP delegation, no one of importance met her (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201603/19/01-4962600-des-pequistes-rencontrent-marine-le-pen-peladeau-sen-dissocie.php). Some young PQ activists bragged about meeting her, which forced PKP to repudiate them. Her press flack did ask if Drainville is a Commie though. :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 22, 2016, 03:23:13 PM
I've answered an Ipsos poll about the future federal budget. I had to rank 15 priorities, give opinion on different size of deficit number and if I agree on different statements. I hope it was for a media and made public before the next budget.

It was done with Global. For the priorities, they report if they are in the top 3 of respondents.

40% spending more on health care
34% cuttin taxes
28% increasing taxes on wealthiest citizens
28% cutting the deficit
28% spending more to help middle class families

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7182 (http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7182)

For the size of deficit, 74% would support a balanced budget
55% would support a deficit of $10 billion (highest support in BC, lowest in Quebec),
26% would support $20 billion deficit
15% would support $30 billion
12% would support $40 billion

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7179 (http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7179)

And other questions on the government and economy such as 53% believe volatile economic conditions give the right to Liberals to break promises.

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7176 (http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7176)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 23, 2016, 09:29:27 AM
Jim Hillyer has died. (https://twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/712646784531763202) RIP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 23, 2016, 03:49:52 PM
For the record, I am divided about getting rid of Mulcair. On paper he should go, but who replaces him?

If I was in the NDP, I would vote to keep him.

Mulcair was hampered by the public's perceptions of the two progressive parties. Similar to how it took Nixon to go to China, it took the Liberals to take a step to the left. The NDP simply didn't have the same fiscal credibility to pull off what Trudeau did.

Very true, but it's very clear the NDP needs to tack left now if they want to differentiate themselves from the Liberals. Going to the centre is all well and good when the Liberals are in third, but there's no room there now. I doubt Mulcair can pull the party to the left, but who will?

My guess is Mulcair gets about a 60% approval and is forced to step down.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 26, 2016, 06:53:10 AM
For the record, I am divided about getting rid of Mulcair. On paper he should go, but who replaces him?

If I was in the NDP, I would vote to keep him.

Mulcair was hampered by the public's perceptions of the two progressive parties. Similar to how it took Nixon to go to China, it took the Liberals to take a step to the left. The NDP simply didn't have the same fiscal credibility to pull off what Trudeau did.

Very true, but it's very clear the NDP needs to tack left now if they want to differentiate themselves from the Liberals. Going to the centre is all well and good when the Liberals are in third, but there's no room there now. I doubt Mulcair can pull the party to the left, but who will?

My guess is Mulcair gets about a 60% approval and is forced to step down.

How much of a left wing tack do you think the NDP needs? You know I'm not a fan of the cling to the centre theory of electioneering, but there's a huge difference between differentiating the party from the Liberals and adopting the NDP Socialist Caucus platform.

I'm getting the impression, at least on Facebook, that NDP supporters are turning into the Canadian version of those GOPers who think that every defeat is caused by not being conservative enough, but that sort of thinking would be disastrous. Personally I think the NDP is in a no-win situation until the Trudeau government turns into the second coming of Paul Martin, or some Liberals get caught with their hand in the till.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 26, 2016, 06:54:40 AM
Oh, here's an interesting graph outlining the difficult situation the provincial governments are in:

()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 26, 2016, 07:50:20 AM
I don't think the Grits will stay way out on left field and squash the NDP that way. Justin's dad tried that in his first term and nearly lost.  But they can certainly keep them where they are now, IMO.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on March 28, 2016, 02:32:24 AM
Very true, but it's very clear the NDP needs to tack left now if they want to differentiate themselves from the Liberals. Going to the centre is all well and good when the Liberals are in third, but there's no room there now. I doubt Mulcair can pull the party to the left, but who will?

My guess is Mulcair gets about a 60% approval and is forced to step down.

A lot of NDPers don't want to admit it, but they got extremely lucky in 2011.  It wasn't the centrist shift that resulted in the breakthrough or the tactical brilliance of Brad Lavigne or the "inevitable" displacement of the Liberals by a "proper" left-right polarization.  They had the perfect storm: a VERY unpopular Liberal leader, a political vacuum in Quebec, and Layton's personal appeal.  I think people voted NDP because they thought was Jack was a nice guy but didn't have a clue what was in the platform.

Mulcair is sounding really desperate now when he says he's a "democratic socialist", doesn't have a problem with deficits if spending is used to "help people" etc. 

The problem with Mulcair is he offers the worst of both worlds: neither principle or electability. 

As for the question "if not Mulcair then who?" - well the party doesn't have much of a purpose anymore if they're doomed without him.  I think a leadership race would be healthy for the NDP as it would kickstart a debate about the party's future direction.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on March 28, 2016, 02:41:17 AM
How much of a left wing tack do you think the NDP needs? You know I'm not a fan of the cling to the centre theory of electioneering, but there's a huge difference between differentiating the party from the Liberals and adopting the NDP Socialist Caucus platform.

I think the left-populist approach of Bernie Sanders, or Ed Broadbent-style social democracy (those two are pretty much identical ideologically) would work.  

It'll be interesting to see how Gary Burrill does in your home province.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on March 28, 2016, 03:08:18 AM
I don't think the Grits will stay way out on left field and squash the NDP that way. Justin's dad tried that in his first term and nearly lost.  But they can certainly keep them where they are now, IMO.

PET also tacked left in 1980.  It worked wonders in Ontario where the NDP was held down to 5 seats, in spite of getting 22% of the vote.  However by then he was so hated in the West that the Liberals took only 2 seats in the West.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 28, 2016, 07:27:28 AM
Committees are a bit chaotic ATM thanks to rookie Grits. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/03/28/its-been-quite-a-learning-curve-rookie-liberal-mps-want-more-training-on-house-committees-opposition-mps-say-its-time-to-step-up/55170)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 28, 2016, 04:02:46 PM
Alberta's right will have to be unified the hard way. Hopefully Jean's up for that. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/alberta-conservatives-revive-debate-over-uniting-theright/article29394140/%3bjsessionid=zlr4W5ZY4rfmgJlc86QfpxwxLTDrSQGWnGlRZ87dCLpxp6q2lPp8!362198830/?ts=160328165233&ord=1)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 29, 2016, 09:36:42 AM
100% agreed. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/jen-gerson-no-need-for-bombardier-bailout)

Labour remains behind Mulcair. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/03/29/union-heads-pen-joint-statement-in-support-tom-mulcair-ahead-of-leadership-vote/#.VvqPLo-cHIV)

Forum-ON: (http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/03/29/just-20-of-ontario-voter-approve-of-job-wynne-is-doing-as-premier-poll.html) Wynne at 20/64 disapprove, Tories lead 40/30/24. Brown needs personal & policy definition lest it be done for him, as Hudak found out 5 years ago.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on March 29, 2016, 09:52:58 AM
Alberta's right will have to be unified the hard way. Hopefully Jean's up for that. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/alberta-conservatives-revive-debate-over-uniting-theright/article29394140/%3bjsessionid=zlr4W5ZY4rfmgJlc86QfpxwxLTDrSQGWnGlRZ87dCLpxp6q2lPp8!362198830/?ts=160328165233&ord=1)

I'm not sure why that gentleman from Cardston-Taber-Warner feels so strongly about the issue.  No to belittle his views, of course, but even in 2015, the non-PC/WRP vote in that riding was only 22.7%.  I would argue that keeping the parties separate is better for rural Alberta, since the prospect of competition would prevent the residents from being taken for granted like they would be under a theoretical united party.

In all seriousness though, I have a hard time seeing the parties coming together anytime soon.  A strong majority of PC members that I know oppose the idea of a merger.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 29, 2016, 04:03:58 PM
Jean Lapierre and members of his family were killed in a Magdalen Islands plane crash today. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tva-former-mp-jean-lapierre-six-others-killed-in-quebec-plane-crash-1.2836751) RIP. :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 31, 2016, 08:06:41 AM
Trudeau in DC prepping for the next admin. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201603/30/01-4966055-justin-trudeau-prepare-lapres-obama.php) Also has a standing invitation to Havana.
 (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201603/30/01-4965904-justin-trudeau-invite-a-cuba.php)

EKOS: (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/03/31/ekos-ndp-slips-to-lowest-level-since-2003-as-mulcair-leadership-review-looms/) 42.3/31.7/11.7.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 02, 2016, 07:39:14 AM
Good. (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/04/02/spy-helping-spy-csis-cse-planning-more-collaboration.html)

LMAO. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-broken-promise-of-kathleen-wynne/article29502805/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Derpist on April 02, 2016, 08:53:34 AM
Trudeau in DC prepping for the next admin. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201603/30/01-4966055-justin-trudeau-prepare-lapres-obama.php) Also has a standing invitation to Havana.
 (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201603/30/01-4965904-justin-trudeau-invite-a-cuba.php)

EKOS: (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/03/31/ekos-ndp-slips-to-lowest-level-since-2003-as-mulcair-leadership-review-looms/) 42.3/31.7/11.7.

Wow, that's brutal. It reminds me of the global trend in the left - people caring more about being hip and cool and random SJW issues (MOAR REFUGEES!!!) than actual progressive economic policy (say what you must, but the NDP wouldn't have had pulled a 30b deficit out of nowhere).

On the other hand, I have family who work in NDP politics, so I should make fun of them the next time we meet up.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 04, 2016, 08:48:03 PM
Hassan Yusuff is anti-Mulcair and thinks he'll flunk the review. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/canadian-labour-congress-head-says-ndp-needs-new-leader/article29522865/?cmpid=rss1)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 04, 2016, 09:10:58 PM
I think the biggest problem with the Dump Mulcair movement is the lack of a strong prospective leader waiting in the wings. I mean, there is Barry Weisleder from the Socialist Caucus... but...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 05, 2016, 07:00:56 AM
China policy review underway. (http://www.canada.com/business/where+trudeau+government+heading+china/11829330/story.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 06, 2016, 05:56:39 AM
Ottawa looks to ink an infrastructure deal with the provinces. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-looks-to-reach-deal-with-provinces-on-infrastructure-spending/article29535203/)

PC MPP Jack MacLaren is a misogynist douche (NSFW). (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/04/06/ontario-mpps-crude-humour-offends-falls-flat-at-fundraiser.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 06, 2016, 05:52:57 PM
MacLaren being a nutjob is not a new thing. I remember hearing a story from my university days of a professor railing on about him, only to find out that MacLaren's son was in the class!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 06, 2016, 06:06:18 PM
Quote
the lack of a strong prospective leader

The possible names I've read are Nathan Cullen, Megan Leslie, Niki Ashton.

If Mulcair gets 60%, which could be seen as a slap in the face, will he stay as MP or start looking for another job and resign in the short term and let the NDP try to hold the riiding of Outremont.

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 06, 2016, 06:15:29 PM
If Mulcair gets 60 he would quit. But he'll get 70+ and stay.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 06, 2016, 06:52:31 PM
Quote
the lack of a strong prospective leader

The possible names I've read are Nathan Cullen, Megan Leslie, Niki Ashton.

If Mulcair gets 60%, which could be seen as a slap in the face, will he stay as MP or start looking for another job and resign in the short term and let the NDP try to hold the riiding of Outremont.

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.


I have no idea what Mulcair would actually do, but if I was in that situation I would say f[inks] you, resign my seat and let the Liberals take my riding to embarass whoever put the knives in my back. Then again I have a tendency to hold grudges :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 07, 2016, 06:05:50 AM
Jacques Demers had a stroke last night and is hospitalized in stable condition. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jacques-demers-stroke-1.3524608)

NDP youth is anti-Mulcair.  (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-youth-wing-expected-to-seek-new-leadership/article29548290/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 07, 2016, 07:05:29 PM
Just before  the NPD convention Forum has a poll on Mulcair leadership. In the general population, 32% agree Mulcair should step down, 36% disagree. Only Quebec and Ontario have more disagree than agree (in Quebec 50% disagree).

Among those voting NDP, 22% agree with step down while 56% disagree.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2490/just-one-third-of-canadians-think-he-should-stay/ (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2490/just-one-third-of-canadians-think-he-should-stay/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 07, 2016, 10:58:46 PM
It will be interesting to see what the NDP does with the principles of the Leap manifesto. In opposition you can be more against oil and pipeline than in a general election in which your opponents will attack you for hurting the economy and lose potential votes.

Parties adopt policies but they also choose what they put in the election come election. The manifesto seems to question capitalism. The party tried to be seen as a potential responsible government. If they become too radical they will lose that. Maybe they will prefer ideals over electability. I hope they don't think the more left they go the more popular they will be.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-oil-ground-manifesto-1.3523849 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-oil-ground-manifesto-1.3523849)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 08, 2016, 04:21:11 PM
You can watch the NDP convention here: http://www.cpac.ca/en/ndp-convention/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 08, 2016, 06:16:42 PM
It will be interesting to see what the NDP does with the principles of the Leap manifesto. In opposition you can be more against oil and pipeline than in a general election in which your opponents will attack you for hurting the economy and lose potential votes.

Parties adopt policies but they also choose what they put in the election come election. The manifesto seems to question capitalism. The party tried to be seen as a potential responsible government. If they become too radical they will lose that. Maybe they will prefer ideals over electability. I hope they don't think the more left they go the more popular they will be.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-oil-ground-manifesto-1.3523849 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-oil-ground-manifesto-1.3523849)

The NDP does need to tack left to win both to keep their base turning out and win back promiscuous progressives. The question is by how much. If they go too far they risk alienating the centre leftists they need to recover strongly.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 08, 2016, 06:21:12 PM
To add to Hatman's point about Mulcair:

The electoral map in Quebec is quite precarious. The NDP won a mere 6 seats by  >5% and one of those was Mulcair's. If the new NDP leader does not have any regional appeal the NDP could be reduced to a couple popular MPs and progressive enclaves due to a marginal favourite son effect wearing off.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 08, 2016, 06:33:13 PM
Details leaking out about the new assisted suicide law. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/assisted-dying-law-will-come-with-strict-limits-sources-say/article29564467/)

The bill will apparently take a fairly conservative approach and avoid some of the more controversial suggestions out there such as allowing assisted suicide for minors, or requiring physicians to euthanize despite conscience concerns.

Frankly, this is a lot better than I was expecting.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on April 08, 2016, 09:02:52 PM
I finally got around to reading the "leap manifesto". It's actually less radical than I expected from media depictions: higher, more progressive taxes, no new pipelines, public transit, indigenous rights, etc. But it's not really anti-capitalist, at least in its specific proposals.

But I guess it fits a certain narrative about the NDP to have a bunch of radical leftists fighting the leadership.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 08, 2016, 09:05:59 PM
But I guess it fits a certain narrative about the NDP to have a bunch of radical leftists fighting the leadership.

It's Canada, all media do what the Liberal spinroom tells them to say.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 08, 2016, 10:39:12 PM
If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 09, 2016, 02:18:10 AM
If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?

That's quite unfair, as there is no provincial NDP in Quebec.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 09, 2016, 06:51:39 AM
Potential steel protectionism inbound. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-trudeau-takes-protectionist-tone-as-pressure-grows-for-buy-canadian-program)

Conrad Black gives Justin a positive review so far.
 (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/conrad-black-six-months-of-the-trudeau-government-so-far-so-good)

Forum: (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/04/09/trudeau-liberals-continue-to-soar-high-poll-shows.html) 51/28/12.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 09, 2016, 06:53:12 AM
But I guess it fits a certain narrative about the NDP to have a bunch of radical leftists fighting the leadership.

It's Canada, all media do what the Liberal spinroom tells them to say.

Just like in the US, except replace Liberal with Clinton :P

If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?

Tomorrow (Sunday) morning. Or afternoon I guess, given the time change.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on April 09, 2016, 06:27:47 PM
I haven't been paying much attention to Canadian politics much since the elections. Why is Mulcair drawing so much hate from the NDP base? Is it because of the election results and him shifting the party rightward?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on April 09, 2016, 10:09:35 PM
I haven't been paying much attention to Canadian politics much since the elections. Why is Mulcair drawing so much hate from the NDP base? Is it because of the election results and him shifting the party rightward?
Not just that. His concession speech on election night pretended as if the party wasn't thrashed. Then he seemed to cocoon himself around his handlers, only making weak progressive noises (like denouncing Trudeau for not explicitly denouncing Donald Trump ::)) when he realized he truly had a fight on his hands. Who wouldn't be angry in such circumstances?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 09, 2016, 11:58:36 PM
I haven't been paying much attention to Canadian politics much since the elections. Why is Mulcair drawing so much hate from the NDP base? Is it because of the election results and him shifting the party rightward?

I'm wondering if he was ever fully accepted, not having a long NDP pedigree. A good portion of the party (even Broadbent) didn't want him during the leadership race and he represents a "reasonable left" rather than more "radical left".

Alberta Premier Notley pleaded for support for oil and pipeline to help Alberta. Maybe the Alberta delegates should think of voting for Mulcair to stay because if the party choose a new leader with a sharp left discourse, that usually means anti-oil / pro-environment.

I saw a convention delegate count by province (this excludes union delegates who are not representeing provinces)

Ontario 433
Alberta 344
BC 244
Québec 156
Saskatchewan 114
Others 96

I have watched some convention activity on tv and I'm not used to people refering to others as brother or sister. It was a bit weird.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 09:59:23 AM
The large Alberta delegation may just help Mulcair. Though, they many could be hippies from Strathcona, so who knows...



I have watched some convention activity on tv and I'm not used to people refering to others as brother or sister. It was a bit weird.

That's leftist politics for you :D

There are a lot of weird things going on at NDP conventions.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Derpist on April 10, 2016, 10:05:17 AM
If I were him, seeing the number of ex-caucus members or current not supporting me, I would exit the party as quickly as possible if I had another interesting job opportunity.

Maybe he'd become a Conservative, he already tried being a Liberal.

The Review is tomorrow, right?

That's quite unfair, as there is no provincial NDP in Quebec.

Yes, he was a member of the Quebec Liberal Party.

Which means he really could give being a Tory a shot.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 10, 2016, 10:06:19 AM
LMAO. I've always seen PLQ as centre-left, and I'll agree to disagree with Max there. Tom Mulcair joined the NDP in 1974.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on April 10, 2016, 10:07:22 AM
The PLQ is whatever you want it to be.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Derpist on April 10, 2016, 10:07:46 AM
The PLQ is whatever you want it to be baby.

See, I can't tell if this is a joke or not because this is probably their actual M.O.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 10:11:03 AM
Mulcair was on the left of the PLQ, but it is generally a centre to centre right party (or has been since the 1990s). People on the left in Quebec tend to vote PQ or QS unless they are federalists. Mulcair represented a fairly federalist riding when he was an MNA.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 10, 2016, 10:59:49 AM
QP panel and Althia Raj seem rather down on Mulcair's prospects, though I'll only believe he flunks if seen. Last time I saw a leadership review go sour was Landry in '05.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 10, 2016, 11:04:25 AM
Motion to examine Leap for the next convention has been adopted.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 11:18:36 AM
QP panel and Althia Raj seem rather down on Mulcair's prospects, though I'll only believe he flunks if seen. Last time I saw a leadership review go sour was Landry in '05.

Of course he is going to fail. Will get somewhere in the 60s. Willing to change my opinion after speech though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 10, 2016, 11:32:27 AM
Motion to examine Leap for the next convention has been adopted.

I watched some of the debate but didn't see the vote/ result how split it was. The Alberta NDP must be disappointed and angre. They advocated it will hurt them.

Mulcair had to face unhappiness from some progressives and now the Alberta section might feel discouraged by the Leap vote just before the leadership vote and don't have motivation to go vote to keep the leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 11:43:40 AM
The brouhaha over the leap manifesto is overrated. Nobody will be talking about it next election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Speech wasn't that convincing. It may have swayed a few people, but I suspect he still gets less than 70%.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on April 10, 2016, 01:26:20 PM
Results for the NDP Convention leadership vote expected by 12


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 01:43:10 PM
Results for the NDP Convention leadership vote expected by 12

Pacific time?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on April 10, 2016, 01:44:26 PM
Yes, Results are apparently ready now


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on April 10, 2016, 01:48:23 PM
52% vote in favor of a leadership review at the NDP Convention


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 01:50:03 PM
Wow... I knew he'd be forced out, but he couldn't even win a majority? Huge shocker.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Holmes on April 10, 2016, 02:00:48 PM
Idiot party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 10, 2016, 02:03:17 PM
In theory, Mulcair could run in the Leadership election, right?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Holmes on April 10, 2016, 02:03:55 PM
In theory, Mulcair could run in the Leadership election, right?

Yeah. But the message is clear.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 10, 2016, 02:05:56 PM
^True.

What are some good political websites, by the way? CBC is really low key in their coverage.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 10, 2016, 02:09:12 PM

Well, I can't really blame them, there is a problem in the party, but it wasn't the leader.

It's rather his advisors and the high-level employees of the party, which were severely disconnected from the reality during the campaign. Mulcair is a victim of their cluelessness and bad advice.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on April 10, 2016, 02:12:19 PM
Good. It's time the NDP returns to its progressive roots.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on April 10, 2016, 02:13:09 PM
It's a shame. I really like Mulcair and I think he could have been a decent prime minister. The reality is, though, that he basically has no advantages when stacked up against Justin Trudeau. In four years, JT will have enough street cred that knocks against his lack of experience or naivety won't matter... which means Mulcair's commanding presence would be moot. And he does not look hip or radical or in touch with the new progressive left at all. So it's a good choice to go with a fresh face.

How's Megan Lelsie's French?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 02:17:52 PM
The NDP has a lot of problems. Hopefully this will fix some of them, but I wouldn't count on it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Holmes on April 10, 2016, 02:19:34 PM
The NDP has a lot of problems. Hopefully this will fix some of them, but I wouldn't count on it.

We're probably going to get a useless and incompetent leader who can't debate or talk about public policy like an adult. I'm betting on Nikki Ashton.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 10, 2016, 02:23:54 PM
The NDP has a lot of problems. Hopefully this will fix some of them, but I wouldn't count on it.

We're probably going to get a useless and incompetent leader who can't debate or talk about public policy like an adult. I'm betting on Nikki Ashton.

Her policies aren't horrible, but she is one of the most annoying voices of the leftist movement in the NDP.

Nathan Cullen would be a good pick, but he probably would be seen as too similar to Mulcair.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 10, 2016, 02:24:42 PM
The NDP has a lot of problems. Hopefully this will fix some of them, but I wouldn't count on it.

We're probably going to get a useless and incompetent leader who can't debate or talk about public policy like an adult. I'm betting on Nikki Ashton.

Yeah, my worry about all of this is who will replace Mulcair. Ashton could be a disaster. Doubt she would win though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 10, 2016, 02:27:12 PM
Cullen, Ashton, Angus possible. Boulerice not this cycle, but he should be kept as Quebec lieutenant.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 10, 2016, 03:44:30 PM
I found this news:
Quote
Sources told iPolitics nearly 90 per cent of the 344 Alberta delegates in attendance were pushing for a change in leadership – in part because of Mulcair’s unwillingness to shut down the Leap Manifesto debate.

Looks like Mulcair was in a no win situation with the Leap manifesto. Alberta angry he didn't shut it down. Those who find him not enough left or accuse the party of not listening to grassroots were already unhappy. Imagine if party leadership was seen as trying to obstruct debating the resolution.

I don't understand what the Alberta delegates get by a change in leadership (besides an expression of their frustration). It's not like the next leader will be pro oil sands.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Holmes on April 10, 2016, 05:46:29 PM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 10, 2016, 06:28:14 PM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 10, 2016, 08:32:55 PM
View from Alberta: Notley's been betrayed (http://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/graham-thomson-after-a-warm-embrace-ndp-delegates-stab-rachel-notley-in-the-back) and should UDI from the federal party. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-notley-needs-to-divorce-the-federal-ndp)

Interview with Don Davies and Matt Dubé. (http://globalnews.ca/news/2630063/ndp-mps-react-to-vote-ousting-tom-mulcair-as-party-leader/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Holmes on April 10, 2016, 10:34:39 PM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.

Cool, but living under an NDP opposition was the only good thing about a Conservative majority at the time, and they were a damn good opposition under competent leadership. I don't give a damn about some poor stupid delegates thinking that the party doesn't seem to be left-wing enough for them. They've only put another obstacle in the NDP's long road out of obscurity.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 10, 2016, 10:39:38 PM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.

Cool, but living under an NDP opposition was the only good thing about a Conservative majority at the time, and they were a damn good opposition under competent leadership. I don't give a damn about some poor stupid delegates thinking that the party doesn't seem to be left-wing enough for them. They've only put another obstacle in the NDP's long road out of obscurity.

I'm pretty sure the issue of all the petro-delegates of Alberta wasn't that. They want yet naother petro-party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 11, 2016, 08:19:29 AM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.

Cool, but living under an NDP opposition was the only good thing about a Conservative majority at the time, and they were a damn good opposition under competent leadership. I don't give a damn about some poor stupid delegates thinking that the party doesn't seem to be left-wing enough for them. They've only put another obstacle in the NDP's long road out of obscurity.

Being a rhetorical carbon copy of the Liberals is a sure fire way to obscurity though. It's unfortunate, but the Libs have triangulated, and the NDP needs to distance themselves. It's not going to get them power, but it will save them from being wiped out.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 11, 2016, 12:42:31 PM
Cam Broten resigns. (https://twitter.com/davidbaxter_/status/719579510916513794)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 11, 2016, 02:43:47 PM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.

Cool, but living under an NDP opposition was the only good thing about a Conservative majority at the time, and they were a damn good opposition under competent leadership. I don't give a damn about some poor stupid delegates thinking that the party doesn't seem to be left-wing enough for them. They've only put another obstacle in the NDP's long road out of obscurity.

Being a rhetorical carbon copy of the Liberals is a sure fire way to obscurity though. It's unfortunate, but the Libs have triangulated, and the NDP needs to distance themselves. It's not going to get them power, but it will save them from being wiped out.

That's the thing. If Liberals and NDP are seen as being at the same place, Liberals win, since their machine is much better than ours.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 11, 2016, 07:17:24 PM
Justin is gonna support Kinder Morgan expansion and Energy East. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-trudeau-convinced-that-pipeline-strategy-must-be-top-priority)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Derpist on April 11, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.

Cool, but living under an NDP opposition was the only good thing about a Conservative majority at the time, and they were a damn good opposition under competent leadership. I don't give a damn about some poor stupid delegates thinking that the party doesn't seem to be left-wing enough for them. They've only put another obstacle in the NDP's long road out of obscurity.

Being a rhetorical carbon copy of the Liberals is a sure fire way to obscurity though. It's unfortunate, but the Libs have triangulated, and the NDP needs to distance themselves. It's not going to get them power, but it will save them from being wiped out.

The NDP wasn't a carbon copy of the Liberals. They were much more fiscally responsible, well-versed in policy, and serious about governing. Which is why Trudeau won.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 12, 2016, 07:17:45 AM
Formee interim NS NDP leader Maureen MacDonald has resigned her seat.

Her riding is quite NDP friendly, but the Liberals are still polling well above their 2013 result, and MacDonald was quite popular personally. Liberals may win the by-election, but I still give the NDP the edge.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 12, 2016, 09:00:56 AM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.

Cool, but living under an NDP opposition was the only good thing about a Conservative majority at the time, and they were a damn good opposition under competent leadership. I don't give a damn about some poor stupid delegates thinking that the party doesn't seem to be left-wing enough for them. They've only put another obstacle in the NDP's long road out of obscurity.

Being a rhetorical carbon copy of the Liberals is a sure fire way to obscurity though. It's unfortunate, but the Libs have triangulated, and the NDP needs to distance themselves. It's not going to get them power, but it will save them from being wiped out.

The NDP wasn't a carbon copy of the Liberals. They were much more fiscally responsible, well-versed in policy, and serious about governing. Which is why Trudeau won.

Those differences were glossed over by most voters though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Derpist on April 12, 2016, 06:35:16 PM
Well, it's not my New Democratic Party of 2011 anymore. That was peak NDP and now we're back to full on "shoot self in the foot for the sake of it" mode. At least Horvath isn't horrible, I'll continue to support her and the provincial party, but at least I won't have to live under Premier Brown.

I hardly consider peak NDP being at the point when the Liberals are to the left of you.

Cool, but living under an NDP opposition was the only good thing about a Conservative majority at the time, and they were a damn good opposition under competent leadership. I don't give a damn about some poor stupid delegates thinking that the party doesn't seem to be left-wing enough for them. They've only put another obstacle in the NDP's long road out of obscurity.

Being a rhetorical carbon copy of the Liberals is a sure fire way to obscurity though. It's unfortunate, but the Libs have triangulated, and the NDP needs to distance themselves. It's not going to get them power, but it will save them from being wiped out.

The NDP wasn't a carbon copy of the Liberals. They were much more fiscally responsible, well-versed in policy, and serious about governing. Which is why Trudeau won.

Those differences were glossed over by most voters though.

The NDP still managed to sort-of-survive. If anything, I suspect Trudeau's unseriousness and moral preening is what propelled him to victory among the Laurentian elites and the Yuppie "left".


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on April 13, 2016, 02:02:29 AM
A shameless plug to my prediction all the way back on October 1...

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=216858.900


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Derpist on April 13, 2016, 02:47:41 AM
A shameless plug to my prediction all the way back on October 1...

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=216858.900

If anything, you understated how badly the NDP was going to get wrecked. :P

Harper always wanted a two-party system in Canada. He got it. Except the other party isn't the NDP.

In the sense that the Tories can't nominate another Harper, that seems about correct. The old coalition between a solid West and a solid Ontario doesn't really seem plausible anymore to me. A mathematical Tory majority seems hard without Quebec.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 13, 2016, 07:10:42 AM
Christy Clark is also moving towards yes on Trans Mountain. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-signs-that-b-c-premier-is-moving-to-yes-on-pipeline)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Tetro Kornbluth on April 13, 2016, 08:27:27 AM
I wonder whether the Tory majority of 2011 and especially its Ontario results was really just down to the Liberals having a spectacularly bad leader.

Anyway, what is the story wrt weed and the voting system? I haven't been paying attention to Canada recently.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 13, 2016, 09:29:28 AM
I wonder whether the Tory majority of 2011 and especially its Ontario results was really just down to the Liberals having a spectacularly bad leader.


This was very much part of it, yes. Maybe even the biggest part.

Quote
Anyway, what is the story wrt weed and the voting system? I haven't been paying attention to Canada recently.

Still in the works as far as I know.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 13, 2016, 04:03:43 PM
Hopefully Brown refuses to sign this asshole's nomination papers. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-jack-maclaren-on-the-bubble-with-tories-after-latest-gaffe) Problem solved.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 13, 2016, 04:17:10 PM
Hopefully Brown refuses to sign this asshole's nomination papers. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-jack-maclaren-on-the-bubble-with-tories-after-latest-gaffe) Problem solved.

PC can't afford to upset the Ontario Landowners Association. They are the reason John Tory lost his by-election and they are quite powerful in rural Eastern Ontario.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 13, 2016, 06:05:20 PM
An article in Le Journal de Montréal asking if it's the end of the NDP in Québec.

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/04/12/vers-la-fin-du-npd-au-quebec (http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/04/12/vers-la-fin-du-npd-au-quebec)

After kicking out Mulcair two political scientists are pessimistic. Think support for NDP will drop. The party has no deep roots. In the province it was the party of two men: Layotn and Mulcair. Voters vote for the leader. If the next leader is not from Quebec, it doesn't look good. Could be wiped off the map. Their support is fragile and the Trudeau brand is strong.

Another is less pessimistic. Says the party has developped an organization. It will depend on the next leadership race, if there are candidates from Quebec, will the party question it's openess to Quebec. NDP will need to make Quebec a priority if they want to take power or become a strong opposition.     


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 13, 2016, 07:13:37 PM
Harper wasn't from Quebec and he won seats in Quebec. The NDP needs to focus on holding on to the more left wing ridings, like Rosemont and Laurier-Ste. Marie, in the same way the Tories are strong in the Chaudiere-Appalaches.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 13, 2016, 07:33:40 PM
Harper wasn't from Quebec and he won seats in Quebec. The NDP needs to focus on holding on to the more left wing ridings, like Rosemont and Laurier-Ste. Marie, in the same way the Tories are strong in the Chaudiere-Appalaches.

He did speak French though, even if it wasn't the best.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 13, 2016, 11:41:53 PM
An article in Le Journal de Montréal asking if it's the end of the NDP in Québec.

No, but it's not surprising a Péladeau newspaper asks the question.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 14, 2016, 08:03:10 AM
Assisted suicide law being introduced today. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/new-assisted-suicide-law-will-be-limited-to-canadians-to-prevent-suicide-tourism)

Ben Harper has started weighing in on public policy. (http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/harper-and-vera-fiscal-malpractice-history-shows-this-is-no-time-to-be-racking-up-deficits)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 14, 2016, 02:22:55 PM
Supreme Court accepts to hear the case about voting rights of Canadians living abroad.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on April 14, 2016, 05:10:39 PM
Stay classy, Conservatives... (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/13/harjit-sajjan-pierre-paul-hus-cheryl-gallant-eyeroll_n_9684734.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 14, 2016, 05:26:57 PM
Stay classy, Conservatives... (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/13/harjit-sajjan-pierre-paul-hus-cheryl-gallant-eyeroll_n_9684734.html)

It's Cheryl Gallant. Classy and her don't belong in the same sentence.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 14, 2016, 05:34:27 PM
Justin on arms deal: contract must be honoured.
 (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/04/14/as-amnesty-warns-about-saudi-arms-sale-trudeau-says-deal-a-matter-of-principle/#.VxAZevkrKUm)

Ottawa Citizen found more Maclaren recordings. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/david-reevely-relased-tapes-of-ontario-mpp-jack-maclaren-reveal-his-profanity-filled-past)

YUGE deficit in AB. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/04/14/alberta-braces-for-10b-in-red-ink-as-finance-minister-ceci-unveils-budget-2/#.VxAZsfkrKUm)

Interesting BC housing debate. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/colby-cosh-great-leap-a-little-war-of-words-on-the-west-coast)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 15, 2016, 10:29:35 AM
Because of a burnout, the new Quebec Culture minister, Luc Fortin, go on a leave for a few weeks. Replaced by his predecessor Hélène David, also Higher Education minister (all those moves were caused by the sick leave of Pierre Moreau).

Due to illness and scandals, the government lost 3 ministers since February.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on April 15, 2016, 11:43:08 AM
Electoral reform has finally appeared on the agenda in Parliament. Maryam Monsef has laid out eight principles which she wants to use to guide the process. Among them are that the new electoral system shouldn't be more complex, and that the local relationship between the MP and the constituent must be maintained.

Seemingly this rules out party list PR. MMP becomes iffy.

On that note, assuming we receive some form of PR (STV or regional open lists), things will change.

The Liberals must learn the meaning of compromise as it's unlikely to retain its majority. It won't form a coalition with the NDP, or any coalition at all. Borgen becomes mandatory viewing at Langevin Block.

The NDP's leftward lurch last weekend is partly gambling on the introduction of reform. If it hovers at 10-15% support, it's still guaranteed a respectable 35-50 seats. If reform fails, then the NDP will have trouble maintaining official party status.

The Conservatives *should* delay the leadership convention until well after the new system is known. But whether the new system is ranked ballots or PR, they will go nowhere with another Harper-like leader.

The Greens will easily reach official status under PR. It might even win 25 seats if the perfect storm arises. Elizabeth May could well decide to retire after the 2019 election. They will rebuff any Liberal flirting after the 2019 vote.

As long as the Bloc retains 15% of the vote in Quebec, it's guaranteed official status. Perversely this incentivizes it to appeal to the pur et dur segment. Maybe it even becomes a European-style right-wing populist party on the lines of the Front Nationale.

The Conservatives must also watch their backs. PR would allow the emergence of a party to their right, especially if the new leader is unable to fire up the base. Even if the Christian Heritage Party elects only its leader, this grants far greater visibility.

If the NDP is unable to unite after its current soul-searching, there's room for a party to its left. Maybe Quebec Solidaire going federal? Lefties looooove to schism, after all.

No Libertarians will get elected. Not a single Libertarian has been elected to any national parliament anywhere in the world.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on April 16, 2016, 08:24:31 PM
Err, Costa Rica, Australia, Denmark, Slovakia...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 16, 2016, 08:38:56 PM
Great article from the Edmonton Journal's Paula Simons on Alberta's female suffrage centenary. (http://edmontonjournal.com/news/insight/paula-simons-alberta-suffrage-crusaders-unlikely-revolutionaries-on-this-centennial-we-should-celebrate-their-courage-and-their-cunning)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 16, 2016, 08:50:52 PM
The Liberals have absolutely no reason to back electoral reform right now.

However, I think Parallel Voting/Mixed Member Majoritarian would be a great system. It's a good compromise and works well.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on April 17, 2016, 12:54:59 PM
The Liberals have absolutely no reason to back electoral reform right now.

It is strange that the future is so often seen as the present projected forwards, when surely our memories ought to tell us that this is absurd.

The past decade gives the Liberals ample reason to back electoral reform: what proportional representation (for instance) would mean above all else would be a degree of protection from the volatile nature of the Canadian electorate. As such over the long run it is their best hope of returning to their traditional status as a semi-permanent party of power...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lurker on April 17, 2016, 02:14:17 PM
Regarding electoral reform, has there been any discussion of implementing the AV/IRV system in Canada? (Australian style)

I presume the Conservatives would be dead set against this, for obvious reasons when looking at the  second choice preferencea of the voters.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vosem on April 17, 2016, 02:34:07 PM
Wouldn't single-member-district IRV be the best system for the Liberals? It would allow them to reap Conservative votes to challenge NDP members and NDP votes to challenge Conservatives. It wouldn't by any means be a permanent Liberal majority, but it does seem like the Liberals would be in a significantly better spot than they're in now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 17, 2016, 03:11:57 PM
Wouldn't single-member-district IRV be the best system for the Liberals? It would allow them to reap Conservative votes to challenge NDP members and NDP votes to challenge Conservatives. It wouldn't by any means be a permanent Liberal majority, but it does seem like the Liberals would be in a significantly better spot than they're in now.

I personally think that's what they want.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on April 17, 2016, 07:02:55 PM
IRV would hit Bloc worst, I assume?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on April 17, 2016, 07:12:29 PM
Trudeau stated he personally prefers IRV, but that he will respect the parliamentary committee however it decides.

At last weekend's NDP conference, delegates spoke strongly for PR instead of IRV, and pointed out that the latter is a transparent plot to turn Canada into a Japan-style one party state.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 17, 2016, 08:58:03 PM
IRV would hit Bloc worst, I assume?

I think so, but there hasn't been any Quebec 2nd choice polls released to confirm as far as I know. It's possible that there are some scenarios where they could benefit (soft nationalists disliking Liberals, anti-Muslim sentiment, ABC etc.)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on April 17, 2016, 09:12:49 PM
Err, Costa Rica, Australia, Denmark, Slovakia...
Classical liberal parties, but not *Libertarian* parties. There would be room for such a party under PR, but it will have to work hard to distinguish from the Liberal Party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 18, 2016, 09:04:44 AM
Brown finally demotes and suspends MacLaren.  (http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/04/18/pc-leader-demotes-mpp-over-sexist-joke.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on April 18, 2016, 10:43:31 AM
Wouldn't single-member-district IRV be the best system for the Liberals? It would allow them to reap Conservative votes to challenge NDP members and NDP votes to challenge Conservatives. It wouldn't by any means be a permanent Liberal majority, but it does seem like the Liberals would be in a significantly better spot than they're in now.

Short term yes, longer term... hmm... you need to be able to guarantee that you'll be at least second in the overwhelming majority of seats for the system to do you any good, else you get ratfycked as badly as by FPTP second prefs or no.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 19, 2016, 06:57:16 AM
Deja vu all over again: BMD under consideration. Believe acceptance if seen, and given last time count me skeptical. Politics would be easy though, if Justin doesn't mind pissing off the soft left. (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/04/18/going-ballistic-is-canada-finally-ready-for-a-missile-shield/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Simfan34 on April 19, 2016, 10:56:38 AM
Hopefully Brown refuses to sign this asshole's nomination papers. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-jack-maclaren-on-the-bubble-with-tories-after-latest-gaffe) Problem solved.

PC can't afford to upset the Ontario Landowners Association. They are the reason John Tory lost his by-election and they are quite powerful in rural Eastern Ontario.

Such a thing exists? Sounds like a 19th century throwback.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 19, 2016, 12:51:55 PM
Rempel on parliamentary sexism. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/michelle-rempel-confront-your-sexism)
No kidding. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/jen-gerson-trudeau-has-a-talent-for-performance)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on April 19, 2016, 03:01:16 PM
Yeah, I like how all the sexist things that used to be said about women and were thankfully addressed decades ago are given a pass when used to attack a man.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 19, 2016, 06:16:09 PM
Hopefully Brown refuses to sign this asshole's nomination papers. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-jack-maclaren-on-the-bubble-with-tories-after-latest-gaffe) Problem solved.

PC can't afford to upset the Ontario Landowners Association. They are the reason John Tory lost his by-election and they are quite powerful in rural Eastern Ontario.

Such a thing exists? Sounds like a 19th century throwback.

The funny thing is that it only came into existence in 2006


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 20, 2016, 10:00:06 AM
Pot will be legalized next year. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/philpott-un-marijuana-legislation-legalize-1.3544554)

Harper will co-author a history book. (https://twitter.com/LMartinOttawa/status/722806404554162176)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on April 21, 2016, 02:34:50 PM
Mike Duffy cleared on all 31 charges
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mike-duffy-trial-live-blog-63-1.3545326 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mike-duffy-trial-live-blog-63-1.3545326)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on April 21, 2016, 02:36:55 PM
Harper will co-author a history book. (https://twitter.com/LMartinOttawa/status/722806404554162176)

More ridiculous propaganda about the 1812 war, I presume.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on April 21, 2016, 03:45:31 PM
Maybe Harper wants to maintain a public profile because he sees himself pulling off another Diefenbaker or Trudeau Sr.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 21, 2016, 06:43:17 PM
Maybe Harper wants to maintain a public profile because he sees himself pulling off another Diefenbaker or Trudeau Sr.

What public profile? As a few media members have pointed out, the guy has been a ghost. Besides, Harper has already written a book about historical hockey (https://www.amazon.ca/Great-Game-Forgotten-Professional-Hockey/dp/1476716536), so I'd surmise he just likes writing books.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Simfan34 on April 21, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Pot will be legalized next year. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/philpott-un-marijuana-legislation-legalize-1.3544554)

He's turning into a parody of an American liberal's dream leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on April 21, 2016, 11:34:28 PM
If Canada was warmer than the US instead of colder I would probably be looking into dual citizenship :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 22, 2016, 02:46:20 PM
If Canada was warmer than the US instead of colder I would probably be looking into dual citizenship :P

It's called a coat.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on April 22, 2016, 02:55:32 PM
If Canada was warmer than the US instead of colder I would probably be looking into dual citizenship :P

It's called a coat.
I'm talking about sunshine and being able to sunbathe on a hammock in your backyard and never deal with shoveling snow or driving in snow


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 22, 2016, 05:35:48 PM
If Canada was warmer than the US instead of colder I would probably be looking into dual citizenship :P

It's called a coat.
I'm talking about sunshine and being able to sunbathe on a hammock in your backyard and never deal with shoveling snow or driving in snow

*is from New England


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 22, 2016, 07:24:41 PM
If Canada was warmer than the US instead of colder I would probably be looking into dual citizenship :P

It's called a coat.
I'm talking about sunshine and being able to sunbathe on a hammock in your backyard and never deal with shoveling snow or driving in snow

You know, it does get hot here too.

As for the snow, yeah, you live in New England. It's not much worse in Canada. Plus, we have Vancouver.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on April 22, 2016, 09:32:13 PM
I'm seriously thinking of moving to Florida for the weather :) It just has sucky politics


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 23, 2016, 08:17:33 AM
The PQ had to squash their splinter parties 9-10 years ago. Too late now.  (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/469019/convergence-souverainiste-le-pq-ouvre-vraiment-les-bras)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 25, 2016, 11:11:01 AM
Food for thought (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-notley-pitches-pipeline-approvals-to-full-federal-cabinet) on energy policy. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-25/enbridge-s-gateway-rises-from-dead-as-trudeau-wavers-on-tankers)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Simfan34 on April 25, 2016, 01:21:08 PM
The least Trudeau could do, if he is so intent on acting like an American progressive's dream leader, is advance high speed rail in the Quebec-Windsor corridor. That is one thing of which I would highly approve.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 25, 2016, 03:49:39 PM
It will not be high speed. Via Rail is proposing a high frequency train. Slower, less costly and with some stops. They would use dedicated tracks for passengers trains and it would be electric hybrid.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/via-rail-quebec-ontario-1.3537019 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/via-rail-quebec-ontario-1.3537019)

There could be 15 daily departures from Quebec City to Montreal instead of 5 at the moment. It would take 2 hours 10 minutes. It would run north of the St. Lawrence with a stop in Trois-Rivières.

Montreal-Toronto would take 3 hours 45 minutes (4 hours 30 now)
Ottawa-Toronto in 2 hours 30 min.
Montreal-Ottawa 1 hour 20 min.

And since it's the new popular thing, pension funds would be involved in financing this infrastructure project.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Simfan34 on April 26, 2016, 08:09:54 AM
That is unfortunate. The corridor is far less built up with sprawl than the Northeast Corridor, which should mean it'd be possible to build a sufficienly straight right of way for relatively little cost. Canada even already has a manufacturer of high speed trains!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Citizen Hats on April 27, 2016, 11:23:32 AM
That is unfortunate. The corridor is far less built up with sprawl than the Northeast Corridor, which should mean it'd be possible to build a sufficienly straight right of way for relatively little cost. Canada even already has a manufacturer of high speed trains!

VIA's position on full-fat HSR is that it would cost 2.5-3 x as much as their 110 mph proposal, while only attracting 1.4 x more ridership. 

It's worth noting that the existing diesel-powered, 90-95 mph tops Montreal-Toronto expresses run faster average speeds than any Amtrak route save New York - Washington Acela Express trains. The problems are that there's not enough track capacity to do that frequently and reliably, and that it takes just somewhat too long to be practically competitive over the distance.  The old Turbos ran the route in just under four hours. 

Post modernization, Montreal-Toronto trains would be the fastest average speed trains in the Western Hemisphere without breaking 110


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 28, 2016, 09:17:06 AM
So the Libs in Newfoundland are planning to shut down half of the province's libraries and are putting a tax on books. Lord tunderin' jesus b'y.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 29, 2016, 11:41:20 AM
$7.5B surplus as the FY ends. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-had-75-billion-surplus-heading-into-final-month-of-fiscal-year/article29797547/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 30, 2016, 05:29:18 AM
So the Libs in Newfoundland are planning to shut down half of the province's libraries and are putting a tax on books. Lord tunderin' jesus b'y.

The Newfoundland government was relying on oil roughly to the same extent as Alberta was, but without Alberta's strong starting position. The budget was about as nasty as required and had both cuts and tax hikes, but I don't know what they are going to do without another oil boom. Newfoundland's fiscal and demographic position is awful even by Atlantic Canadian standards. :(

Anyways, the result of all this is the first good news poll for the NDP in a long time. (https://ca.news.yahoo.com/n-l-liberals-slide-post-105500968.html) Brackets indicate change from last election.

Lib: 37% (-20)
NDP: 32% (+20)
PC: 30% (nc)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 30, 2016, 05:48:24 AM
Oh, there's a few rumours going around that Stephen McNeil is going to call a snap election this spring. Nova Scotia loves to speculate on this topic with every premier because John Buchanan won back to back re-elections off of snap elections in the 1980's. I personally doubt McNeil calls an election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 30, 2016, 06:00:26 PM
Jean Rousseau, ex-NDP MP for Compton-Stanstead is joining the Green Party. He thinks the environment should be the top priority.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/regions/estrie/2016/04/29/005-rousseau-vert-transition-estrie.shtml (http://ici.radio-canada.ca/regions/estrie/2016/04/29/005-rousseau-vert-transition-estrie.shtml)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on May 02, 2016, 11:42:29 AM
Pot will be legalized next year. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/philpott-un-marijuana-legislation-legalize-1.3544554)

He's turning into a parody of an American liberal's dream leader.

Since when does implementing sensible policy make one a parody? 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 02, 2016, 01:02:48 PM
PKP is retiring from politics for family reasons, namely his ugly separation. First permanent oppo leader never to contest a GE.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 02, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
PKP is retiring from politics for family reasons, namely his ugly separation. First permanent oppo leader never to contest a GE.

Too bad. He would have made for an interesting election.

Leadership candidates?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 02, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
Cloutier, Hivon, Lisée, Aussant, Drainville.  (https://twitter.com/JuDufresne_RC/status/727213378578583557) If I were them I'd go for Cloutier or Hivon. (http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/05/02/5-successeurs-potentiels-a-pkp) Young, likable, talented, no GE baggage. Structural and intraparty will be tough, needless to say.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 03, 2016, 10:03:50 AM
Q1 fundraising numbers are in:  (http://ottawacitizen.com/storyline/kady-tories-back-on-top-latest-party-fundraising-reports-show?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)$5.5M/$4.4M/$1.4M.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 03, 2016, 01:41:05 PM
Oh, there's a few rumours going around that Stephen McNeil is going to call a snap election this spring. Nova Scotia loves to speculate on this topic with every premier because John Buchanan won back to back re-elections off of snap elections in the 1980's. I personally doubt McNeil calls an election.

Calling elections 2 1/2 years after the last election never ends well for the government.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 03, 2016, 01:43:03 PM
Former NDP MP Ian Deans (and ex-husband of Ottawa city councillor Diane Deans) has died. RIP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 03, 2016, 01:56:53 PM
Cool QP game from the National Post. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/play-question-blaster-the-ultimate-parliamentary-combat-simulator)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 03, 2016, 05:04:09 PM
Fort Mac is being evacuated due to wildfires. (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/05/03/mandatory-evacuation-notices-issued-for-fort-mcmurray)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 03, 2016, 08:26:29 PM
Obama will address Parliament at the end of June. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeua-three-amigos-summit-1.3565189)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Cubby on May 03, 2016, 11:42:49 PM
Fort Mac is being evacuated due to wildfires. (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/05/03/mandatory-evacuation-notices-issued-for-fort-mcmurray)

Well this is shocking to say the least.

Has any American or Canadian city this large been completely evacuated since New Orleans during Katrina?

A lot of people are driving all the way to Edmonton rather than stay at nearby campgrounds.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 04, 2016, 05:50:02 AM
Fort Mac is being evacuated due to wildfires. (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/05/03/mandatory-evacuation-notices-issued-for-fort-mcmurray)

Well this is shocking to say the least.

Has any American or Canadian city this large been completely evacuated since New Orleans during Katrina?

A lot of people are driving all the way to Edmonton rather than stay at nearby campgrounds.

Sadly, it was thr right call to do, as the city is currently burning. Beacon Hill is 80% destroyed, some other neighbourhoods are quite devasted, too.

Brian Jean, the Wildrose Party leader, is among the people whose house burnt.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 04, 2016, 06:17:48 AM
Alberta has requested federal assistance, 48 hours till the Army and Air Force arrive. (https://twitter.com/CBCEdmonton/status/727716867285078016)

Wynne says 2 of her MPPs were linked to sexual harassment. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/05/03/two-liberal-mpps-linked-to-sexual-harassment-wynne-admits.html)

Forum-ON: (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/05/04/kathleen-wynne-trails-patrick-brown-in-approval-ratings-forum-poll-shows.html) 39/34.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 04, 2016, 08:38:10 AM
Alberta has requested federal assistance, 48 hours till the Army and Air Force arrive. (https://twitter.com/CBCEdmonton/status/727716867285078016)

Wynne says 2 of her MPPs were linked to sexual harassment. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/05/03/two-liberal-mpps-linked-to-sexual-harassment-wynne-admits.html)

Forum-ON: (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/05/04/kathleen-wynne-trails-patrick-brown-in-approval-ratings-forum-poll-shows.html) 39/34.

Don't post Ontario polls unless you're going to report the NDP as well! (most of us are NDPers here...)

Full #s:

PC: 39 (-1)
OLP: 34 (+4)
NDP: 21 (-3)
GPO: 5 (n/c)






Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 04, 2016, 08:44:48 AM
Didn't see it in the article. :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 04, 2016, 09:18:42 AM

Yeah, I know (shame on them), but Forum had the crosstabs on their site.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 05, 2016, 11:21:22 AM
Government will match funds for Red Cross Fort Mac donations.
 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fort-mcmurray-federal-response-red-cross-1.3567828)
Braid on Notley's first year. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-notley-sails-into-year-two-on-a-sea-of-trouble)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 08, 2016, 10:11:02 AM
Year out from another rock 'em, sock 'em BC campaign. (http://www.theprovince.com/news/solberg+leech+will+year+until+ugliest+ever+election/11902430/story.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 08, 2016, 05:07:27 PM
Feds set to introduce new border regulations. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/05/08/feds-set-to-introduce-bill-on-the-canada-u-s-border-2/#.Vy-2YIQrKUl)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on May 08, 2016, 06:15:21 PM
Alberta PCs held their first AGM since the 2015 election yesterday. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-from-the-fire-a-glimpse-of-the-pcs-as-they-used-to-be)  78% voted in favour of holding an election to find a permanent leader.  Also of note, the party will be returning to the delegated convention style of leadership election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 09, 2016, 08:30:00 AM
Tories pull support for the RCMP unionization bill. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-union-bill-conservatives-1.3572872)

Tories tightening rules for incumbent nomination challenges. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/05/09/proposed-rules-could-help-conservative-incumbent-mps-avoid-nomination-challenges/61196?monte-wente090929)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 10, 2016, 07:58:49 AM
Trudeau: foreign aid target too ambitious. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/05/10/justin-trudeau-un-goal-to-boost-spending-on-aid-too-ambitious-for-canada-right-now.html)

Turns out Albertan parties can't legally merge in the usual sense. So Jean has to wipe out the Progs electorally. (http://www.canada.com/news/national/national+newswatch+gerson+another+alberta+conservative+party+will+lead+civil+with/11907469/story.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 10, 2016, 08:21:03 AM
There's no reason why Alberta shouldn't have two right wing parties. No need to go back to decades of one party rule.

Speaking of Alberta, considering Notley has done a super job handling the Fort Mac fire, I wonder if this might just save the NDP in the province.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 10, 2016, 01:38:58 PM
Trudeau just announced he'll visit Fort Mac on Friday.

BC-Insights West: (http://www.insightswest.com/news/concerns-over-housing-and-poverty-intensify-in-british-columbia/) 40/34/14/10. Almost no change since November.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 11, 2016, 07:24:27 AM
Ivison: why no extra indigenous PSE funding? (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-why-arent-the-liberals-putting-any-funds-into-post-secondary-indigenous-education)

Delacourt: Trudeau should start taking risks, including raising the GST back to 7%.
 (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/05/10/trudeaus-got-political-capital-to-burn-time-to-start-taking-risks/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 11, 2016, 08:31:30 AM
The government is putting forward the motion to strike the special committee on electoral reform today. The committee will have 10 members, 6 Libs, 3 Cons and 1 NDP, plus one Bloc and one Green (Elizabeth May) will sit on the committee but won't be able to vote.

Of course, the Liberals having a majority on the committee is highly ironic.  I doubt they will try to push something through unilaterally though.

In addition to electoral reform, they will also be discussing online voting (what a recipe for disaster that would be) and mandatory voting. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on May 11, 2016, 03:24:32 PM
I know the Liberals will be leaning towards AV, though I really hope not. One electoral reform is done everyone is likely to pat themselves on the back and call it a day for many years.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 11, 2016, 06:57:50 PM
PMO trying to lighten Mme Grégoire-Trudeau's workload. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pmo-looking-at-ways-to-ease-sophie-gregoire-trudeaus-workload/article29986113/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on May 11, 2016, 07:13:47 PM
PMO trying to lighten Mme Grégoire-Trudeau's workload. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pmo-looking-at-ways-to-ease-sophie-gregoire-trudeaus-workload/article29986113/)

I don't believe any spouses of the PM have had to juggle as much as she has since, well, the elder Trudeau.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 11, 2016, 07:46:38 PM
PMO trying to lighten Mme Grégoire-Trudeau's workload. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pmo-looking-at-ways-to-ease-sophie-gregoire-trudeaus-workload/article29986113/)

I don't believe any spouses of the PM have had to juggle as much as she has since, well, the elder Trudeau.

Mila Mulroney did a lot, as did Aline Chrétien. Margaret Trudeau wasn't a huge fan of officialdom, to put it mildly. Mulroney and Chrétien were deeply involved in politics - their husbands' closest advisors - and behind the scenes, played a policy role too.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on May 11, 2016, 08:54:05 PM
If the Liberals were truly Machiavellian, they should go with true PR and not AV/IRV. PR would encourage the other two national parties to fragment into niche parties, leaving the Liberals as the only national, big-tent brokerage party. AV/IRV OTOH, still strongly discourages the creation of new parties.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 12, 2016, 10:18:11 AM
AB-Insights West: (http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/05/12/wildrose-leads-in-latest-opinion-poll) 35/27/22.

Partisan advertising being curbed. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/05/12/federal-liberals-make-interim-move-to-curb-partisan-government-advertising-3/#.VzSgt4QrKUl)

Staff hiring process under scrutiny. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberal-hiring-process-under-scrutiny-after-staffers-tax-troubles-are-revealed/article29988133/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 12, 2016, 06:12:41 PM
Before his defeat, Harper had been hatching a provincial wing of the federal party. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-stephen-harper-had-plan-to-unite-albertas-right-as-conservative-party) Plan isn't quite dead, since the federal party is giving Wildrose and the Progs 2 years to find a solution. If not, they'll move in.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 14, 2016, 05:11:39 AM
If the Liberals were truly Machiavellian, they should go with true PR and not AV/IRV. PR would encourage the other two national parties to fragment into niche parties, leaving the Liberals as the only national, big-tent brokerage party. AV/IRV OTOH, still strongly discourages the creation of new parties.

If we get PR, I'd very much like the threshold to be low, say 1-2%. It'd be interesting to see some of the more active fringe parties (Socons, Commies, Libertarians) win seats.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 14, 2016, 05:20:18 AM
There's no reason why Alberta shouldn't have two right wing parties. No need to go back to decades of one party rule.

AB-Insights West: (http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/05/12/wildrose-leads-in-latest-opinion-poll) 35/27/22.

Well, yeah this isn't 1990's Ontario, so it's not like a divided right can't win, especially if the consolidated progressive vote is stuck below 30%.

I'm kind of surprised the feds are getting involved in this TBH. Given the weakness of PC vote distribution and lack of raison d'etre outside government, a modest swing against them could reduce them to a handful of seats next time.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 14, 2016, 05:36:17 AM
Trudeau toured Fort Mac, promised extended EI benefits for several Western regions and all necessary assistance. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/trudeau-visits--fort-mcmurray-meets-with-alberta-premier/article30007046/)

BC Grit election prep well underway. (http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-premier-plots-course-to-next-years-provincial-election)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on May 14, 2016, 07:14:07 PM
 New BC Poll, BC Liberals leading with strong support from Millennials : (http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7238)  BC Liberals 42/NDP 36/Conservatives 11/Green 10


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 15, 2016, 07:00:51 AM
Mulcair will retire in 2019. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201605/15/01-4981747-thomas-mulcair-quittera-la-politique-en-2019.php)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 15, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
New BC Poll, BC Liberals leading with strong support from Millennials : (http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7238)  BC Liberals 42/NDP 36/Conservatives 11/Green 10


LOL. Junk poll! Does anyone remember how badly Ipsos screwed up in Ontario?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lotuslander on May 15, 2016, 11:35:38 AM
New BC Poll, BC Liberals leading with strong support from Millennials : (http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7238)  BC Liberals 42/NDP 36/Conservatives 11/Green 10


LOL. Junk poll! Does anyone remember how badly Ipsos screwed up in Ontario?

At this point, ~ one year out from the 2013 BC election, Ipsos-Reid had the BC NDP leading by an astounding 19%!

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5659

As for Ipsos-Reid during the 2014 ON election, their last opinion poll pegged the ONDP at 30% - actual was 23.8%.

My main point? Ipsos-Reid and other opt-in online panel pollsters always overestimate the NDP vote. Both Ipsos-Reid and Angus-Reid (also opt-in online) had similar 8%-9% BC NDP leads in their last day polls the day prior to the May, 2013 BC election.

Opt-in online and IVR are just cheap polling junk. Give me a "gold-standard" CATI poll any day of the week. ;)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 16, 2016, 07:08:34 AM
Transgender law will be tabled tomorrow. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201605/15/01-4982002-transgenres-ottawa-deposera-un-projet-de-loi-mardi.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B13b_politique-canadienne_560_section_POS1)

Forum: (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2511/convincing-supermajority-if-election-held-today/) 52/29/11. Justin at 57% approval.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 16, 2016, 08:28:12 AM
New BC Poll, BC Liberals leading with strong support from Millennials : (http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7238)  BC Liberals 42/NDP 36/Conservatives 11/Green 10


LOL. Junk poll! Does anyone remember how badly Ipsos screwed up in Ontario?

At this point, ~ one year out from the 2013 BC election, Ipsos-Reid had the BC NDP leading by an astounding 19%!

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5659

As for Ipsos-Reid during the 2014 ON election, their last opinion poll pegged the ONDP at 30% - actual was 23.8%.

My main point? Ipsos-Reid and other opt-in online panel pollsters always overestimate the NDP vote. Both Ipsos-Reid and Angus-Reid (also opt-in online) had similar 8%-9% BC NDP leads in their last day polls the day prior to the May, 2013 BC election.

Opt-in online and IVR are just cheap polling junk. Give me a "gold-standard" CATI poll any day of the week. ;)

If opt-in panels always over estimate the NDP, then why does ipsos have the NDP lower than any of the other pollsters? Hmmm?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lotuslander on May 17, 2016, 12:39:04 AM
If opt-in panels always over estimate the NDP, then why does ipsos have the NDP lower than any of the other pollsters? Hmmm?

Haha. What other pollsters? BTW... I do know my stuff. So have at 'er! ;)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 17, 2016, 08:21:43 AM
If opt-in panels always over estimate the NDP, then why does ipsos have the NDP lower than any of the other pollsters? Hmmm?

Haha. What other pollsters? BTW... I do know my stuff. So have at 'er! ;)

Howabout the Insights West poll that was posted on this very thread on the previous page? Howabout every other poll published since January 2014?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Zioneer on May 17, 2016, 09:24:10 AM
So what are the electoral reform proposals being looked at, and beyond the letters (IRV, MMP, etc), what exactly do they mean?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 17, 2016, 09:34:24 AM
They haven't mentioned anything specific, but IRV is their likeliest option, reading between the lines.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 17, 2016, 12:24:35 PM
I disagree with that assessment. The Liberals would prefer it of course, but no other party would back them on it, so it would look bad if they pushed for a system that only they support.

What is most likely to happen is not much. The Liberals won't pursue IRV without another party supporting, so they will drop the issue, as most other systems would require boundary changes (see my thread) or increasing the size of parliament, and they would not likely do that. My worst fear is that the only reform they go with, which is the worst possible "reform", is to adopt online voting.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on May 17, 2016, 03:00:14 PM
My worst fear is that the only reform they go with, which is the worst possible "reform", is to adopt online voting.

May I ask why you are so opposed to the idea? Do you think it's going to be compromised or something?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 17, 2016, 03:24:51 PM
My worst fear is that the only reform they go with, which is the worst possible "reform", is to adopt online voting.

May I ask why you are so opposed to the idea? Do you think it's going to be compromised or something?

Yeah, it's always a possibility. This is a good video that explains why it's a bad idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 17, 2016, 08:09:01 PM
No rush to bring back the per-vote subsidy. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/05/17/per-vote-subsidy-canada-trudeau-harper_n_10014486.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 17, 2016, 08:16:11 PM
good policy, but very unpopular.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 18, 2016, 05:13:49 PM
So things got spicy on the House floor today. (https://twitter.com/RichardMadan/status/733053905232224257)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on May 18, 2016, 06:35:24 PM
So things got spicy on the House floor today. (https://twitter.com/RichardMadan/status/733053905232224257)

As concerning as it is that Justin thinks he can manhandle MPs, it's not like he intended for that to happen.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 18, 2016, 06:41:17 PM
Brosseau no. The rest yes. Bouncer's instinct I guess. Context is impending guillotine on euthanasia & other bills.  (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberals-threaten-to-take-full-control-of-the-house-as-deadline-looms-1.2907468)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Famous Mortimer on May 19, 2016, 03:06:49 AM
I generally really like Brosseau and Ashton but God, they both came out of this looking stupid. Brosseau with her "omg someone grazed me while walking through a crowd, I had to leave the room and cry about it!" and Ashton with her "women need to feel safe!" speech. How don't women feel safe? Does she think Trudeau is going to rape someone in the House of Commons?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 19, 2016, 05:02:31 AM
So things got spicy on the House floor today. (https://twitter.com/RichardMadan/status/733053905232224257)

Well it's good to know Trudeau is still prone to saying and doing silly things. This incident won't move many votes but the pattern hopefully might in four years.

Also, what is Trudeau doing that for? He has backbenchers for these tasks :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blair on May 19, 2016, 07:17:27 AM
In all fairness I judge an MP by the number of House of Commons fights they've gotten into


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 19, 2016, 03:06:41 PM
In more important news, the NEB has conditionally approved Trans Mountain. (https://twitter.com/kevinlibin/status/733388072314933248)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: SATW on May 19, 2016, 03:23:32 PM
I generally really like Brosseau and Ashton but God, they both came out of this looking stupid. Brosseau with her "omg someone grazed me while walking through a crowd, I had to leave the room and cry about it!" and Ashton with her "women need to feel safe!" speech. How don't women feel safe? Does she think Trudeau is going to rape someone in the House of Commons?

No, she expects the Prime Minister not to act like a thug on the floor of Parliament. Clearly, he didn't mean to hit her on purpose, but his actions leading up to it were just as disturbing and were directly responsible for the incident that followed.

  I have said  a few times already to some of my friends who follow Canadian Politics...Trudeau makes both President Barack Obama and President Enrique Pena Nieto look like statesmen. #TrudeauIsTruTrash


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Holmes on May 21, 2016, 01:10:25 AM
I mean, I don't care anymore, really they're all horrible and I don't even live there anymore, but it's fun watching people trip over themselves to proclaim that Trudeau is this big feminist icon that must be protected while attacking and denouncing the actual woman that was involved in this altercation.

But he's a man so it's all good.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 25, 2016, 06:57:06 AM
Harper will quit Parliament before fall, will sit on corporate boards and involve himself in the foreign policy world. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-will-step-down-as-mp-before-parliaments-fall-session/article30133335/)

Tories prepping for this weekend's convention. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/conservatives-ready-for-partyconvention/article30133342/)

Wynne planning a Cabinet overhaul after the Leg adjourns in a couple of weeks. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/05/25/kathleen-wynne-plans-major-cabinet-shuffle-in-june.html)

Premier approval ratings. (http://angusreid.org/premier-approval-may2016/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DavidB. on May 25, 2016, 03:58:11 PM
Since the general election I haven't payed much attention to Canadian politics, but I understand the Liberals are riding high in the polls. Are they really so popular, or is it just that there is no alternative because the PC and the NDP don't know what they want and who they are? And could anyone update me on what has happened policy-wise since Trudeau took office? :)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 25, 2016, 04:20:38 PM
Since the general election I haven't payed much attention to Canadian politics, but I understand the Liberals are riding high in the polls. Are they really so popular, or is it just that there is no alternative because the PC and the NDP don't know what they want and who they are? And could anyone update me on what has happened policy-wise since Trudeau took office? :)

Trudeau is quite popular. Obviously there are factions that don't like him (conservatives, socialists, separatists), but he has managed to own the 'promiscuous progressive' demographic. The NDP have struggled to differentiate themselves from the Liberals and are languishing at 1990's levels of support and Thomas Mulcair lost a non-confidence motion at NDP's convention this spring. The Tories still have their ~30% base.  I suspect the polls will stay this way until the Tories and NDP pick new leaders.

Policy wise, some of the more salient points are:
1) Cutting taxes for the $45,000-$90,000 tax bracket and adding a new bracket for incomes over $200,000
2) Expanding child benefits, and removing the universal component to make the program 100% income based
3) Legalizing marijuana
4) An assisted suicide bill which legalizes the practice but is still relatively restrictive.
5) Running a $30 billion deficit instead of the promised $10 billion.
6) Early, early stages of electoral reform (still probably not going to happen)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DavidB. on May 25, 2016, 04:31:23 PM
Thanks! But many of these things have not been implemented yet, right?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 25, 2016, 05:11:07 PM
Thanks! But many of these things have not been implemented yet, right?

The taxes, deficit, and child benefits have all been implemented. Assisted suicide is working its way through parliament. Marijuana legalization and electoral reform have yet to be introduced as bills in parliament.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on May 26, 2016, 06:44:56 PM
Quebec provincial election poll-May 23rd
CROP Poll
Liberal-34%
Coalition Avenir Québec-27%
Parti Québécois-26%
Québec solidaire-11%
Other-3%

http://static.lpcdn.ca/fichiers/html/2508/CROP_-_Course_au_PQ.pdf (http://static.lpcdn.ca/fichiers/html/2508/CROP_-_Course_au_PQ.pdf)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 27, 2016, 12:50:05 PM
Defeated MLA Keith Bain has won the Tory nomination in Victoria-The Lakes. Bain served two terms before being defeated by Pam Eyking, wife of Liberal MP Mark Eyking


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 28, 2016, 08:57:21 AM
Wildrose attacks Wynne's policies to her face when she was Notley's gallery guest this week. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/wildrose-insults-an-ally-alberta-dearly-needs-for-energy-east/article30196332/) Lead attacker suspended from caucus for another reason. (http://globalnews.ca/news/2727371/alberta-mla-derek-fildebrandt-suspended-from-wildrose-caucus-over-unacceptable-social-media-comment/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 28, 2016, 04:57:31 PM
Tories drop opposition to SSM (https://twitter.com/jasonfekete/status/736676678592667648), Grits adopt a new party constitution.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 29, 2016, 07:04:30 AM
The several municipalities in Pictou County (Peter MacKay's home county), with a combined population of 45k have rejected amalgamation in a referendum. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/pictou-county-plebiscite-amalgamation-vote-1.3605486)

Hatman is likely pleased. I am not :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 29, 2016, 03:35:05 PM
The several municipalities in Pictou County (Peter MacKay's home county), with a combined population of 45k have rejected amalgamation in a referendum. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/pictou-county-plebiscite-amalgamation-vote-1.3605486)

Hatman is likely pleased. I am not :P

Woohoo! You have to admit, it has gotten pretty ridiculous in Nova Scotia. Pretty soon the whole province will be one municipality!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 29, 2016, 03:44:14 PM
New Glasgow supported the merger, but the other three municipalities did not. The Town of Pictou was very divided, the western ward supported it 54-46 but the eastern ward did not (58% no).  Results: http://munpict.ca/images/elections_images/may28_2016results.pdf



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 29, 2016, 04:05:57 PM
New Glasgow supported the merger, but the other three municipalities did not. The Town of Pictou was very divided, the western ward supported it 54-46 but the eastern ward did not (58% no).  Results: http://munpict.ca/images/elections_images/may28_2016results.pdf



Page 3 is saying that Yes got 44% and no 66%, so, I wouldn't trust them.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 31, 2016, 06:32:29 PM
Whoa: Tootoo is leaving Cabinet and the Grit caucus to seek addiction treatment.  (https://twitter.com/althiaraj/status/737788329341661184)Best of luck to him. 3rd in recent years after Saganash and O'Regan.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on May 31, 2016, 07:27:40 PM
Whoa: Tootoo is leaving Cabinet and the Grit caucus to seek addiction treatment.  (https://twitter.com/althiaraj/status/737788329341661184)Best of luck to him.

Stepping down from cabinet I understand - but leaving the caucus, to sit as an independent, for addiction treatment? That seems weird. I would not be surprised at all if there turns out to be more to this than has been announced.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 31, 2016, 07:53:18 PM
Whoa: Tootoo is leaving Cabinet and the Grit caucus to seek addiction treatment.  (https://twitter.com/althiaraj/status/737788329341661184)Best of luck to him.

Stepping down from cabinet I understand - but leaving the caucus, to sit as an independent, for addiction treatment? That seems weird. I would not be surprised at all if there turns out to be more to this than has been announced.

Rampant journo speculation on Twitter about that, but nothing yet.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 01, 2016, 09:56:29 AM
Speculation is that he got drunk at the Liberal convention and was inappropriately hitting on a staffer.

Alcohol abuse is unfortunately all to common among the Aboriginal community, even among high profile politicians (as we saw with Saganash). I hope that stories such as these shed a light on this issue. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on June 01, 2016, 04:38:46 PM
Speculation is that he got drunk at the Liberal convention and was inappropriately hitting on a staffer.

That's it?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 01, 2016, 04:54:19 PM
Globe says Trudeau told caucus that there was nothing in particular. There have been embarrassing drunk performances, most infamously the late Ralph Klein. In the Diefenbaker era, there was a minister who was literally piss-drunk at the Montreal airport, and pissed in a potted plant - insisting on pulling down his pants in front of a media gaggle. More recently, Elizabeth May's performance at last year's Press Gallery dinner.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 02, 2016, 11:00:33 AM
Speculation is that he got drunk at the Liberal convention and was inappropriately hitting on a staffer.

That's it?

Well, I guess it depends on how inappropriate he was behaving towards said staffer. I'm sure there's zero-tolerance for sexual harassment within the Liberal caucus considering what happened with the two Liberal MPs in the last parliament. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 02, 2016, 11:33:02 AM
Chinese foreign minister met with Trudeau yesterday. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-02/trudeau-guarding-family-legacy-woos-china-amid-japan-standoff)

Electoral reform committee's composition being changed. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/06/02/democratic-reform-committee-monsef_n_10259300.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 02, 2016, 11:35:05 AM
The Liberals have scrapped their majority on the electoral reform committee and have adopted the NDP plan, which alots seats based on the popular vote: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-electoral-reform-committee-1.3612377

Good move! I told you guys the Liberals weren't going to go it alone on this! Though, I didn't expect them to do this, but hey, why not? They weren't going to push something through on their own anyways, so might as well give themselves a minority (plurality) of seats on the committee.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 04, 2016, 08:18:17 AM
Palmer: BCNDP are underdogs going into next year's campaign. (http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-ndp-face-big-battle-to-grab-dozen-close-margin-seats-from-liberals)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 05, 2016, 06:32:47 AM
Gallery dinner last night. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/parliamentary-press-gallery-dinner-2016-1.3617005?cmp=rss)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on June 05, 2016, 02:00:59 PM
In case anyone hasn't been paying attention to Alberta politics over the past 10 days, the Wildrose Party has not been having a fun time:

Here's a timeline of Derek Fildebrandt's odd and brief suspension from the Wildrose caucus. (http://daveberta.ca/2016/06/derek-fildebrandts-suspension-wildrose/)

CBC analysis of the fallout. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/derek-fildebrandt-s-short-lived-suspension-exposes-cracks-in-wildrose-caucus-1.3614917)

The same week, a group of Wildrose MLAs had to apologize for a blog post comparing the Alberta carbon tax to the Ukrainian Genocide. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/carbon-tax-linked-to-ukrainian-genocide-in-wildrose-post-1.3616083)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In slightly related news, the Alberta PCs will choose a new leader in Spring 2017. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-progressive-conservatives-to-elect-new-leader-next-spring-1.3617259)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 05, 2016, 05:08:20 PM
Fildebrandt is a bit of an odd ball. He was in a few of my classes at university, and his politics were very insane.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 08, 2016, 06:23:47 AM
Clark is eager to lead her Grits into battle. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/christy-clark-sings-familiar-pre-election-song-but-sings-it-louder-now/article30345906/)

Well yeah PM, referenda are supposed to be B&W. As you well know from your own '92 experience. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/06/08/trudeau-points-to-black-and-whiteness-of-referendum-in-electoral-reform-debate-wells.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 08, 2016, 02:31:21 PM
So, there's a giant sinkhole not too far from parliament...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on June 08, 2016, 09:24:52 PM
So, there's a giant sinkhole not too far from parliament...

I guess they'll have to hold their sessions in the other part of Rideau Hall.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 09, 2016, 06:09:42 AM
Big infrastructure announcements inbound. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/06/09/trudeau-says-collaboration-will-mark-relationships-among-levels-of-government.html) Ditto massive expansion of parliamentary IC oversight. (http://www.canada.com/news/national/agencies+unprecedented+parliamentary+oversight+under+liberal/11973536/story.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 09, 2016, 08:30:41 AM
So, there's a giant sinkhole not too far from parliament...

I guess they'll have to hold their sessions in the other part of Rideau Hall.

???


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 09, 2016, 09:06:13 AM
NDP now ahead in latest Newfoundland poll:

38-34-27: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/cra-poll-dwight-ball-popularity-down-1.3624034



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 10, 2016, 06:04:38 AM
Trudeau considering a NATO request to deploy up to 1000 troops to Eastern Europe. (http://www.canada.com/news/national/liberals+98considering+nato+request+2c000+canadian+troops/11976373/story.html) Believe if seen.

Forum: (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/06/10/elbowgate-did-nothing-to-hurt-trudeaus-popularity-forum-poll-says.html) 49/32/10. Justin's approval steady at 57%.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 10, 2016, 09:30:53 AM
Gordie Howe has died. RIP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on June 10, 2016, 02:47:30 PM
More Wildrose Party shenanigans: A constituency association passes a resolution calling for a review of Brian Jean's leadership at the next AGM. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/brian-jean-wildrose-leadership-review-1.3624684)

Alberta NDP convention this weekend in Calgary. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-ndp-convention-2016-calgary-set-up-1.3624926)  According to Twitter, a resolution will be debated about whether the ABNDP should disaffiliate from the national party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on June 11, 2016, 04:23:08 PM
Trudeau considering a NATO request to deploy up to 1000 troops to Eastern Europe. (http://www.canada.com/news/national/liberals+98considering+nato+request+2c000+canadian+troops/11976373/story.html) Believe if seen.

Forum: (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/06/10/elbowgate-did-nothing-to-hurt-trudeaus-popularity-forum-poll-says.html) 49/32/10. Justin's approval steady at 57%.

Holy crap, those NDP numbers are devastating. How many seats do you think the NDP would win with 10% of the nationwide vote?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on June 11, 2016, 05:04:54 PM
Trudeau considering a NATO request to deploy up to 1000 troops to Eastern Europe. (http://www.canada.com/news/national/liberals+98considering+nato+request+2c000+canadian+troops/11976373/story.html) Believe if seen.

Forum: (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/06/10/elbowgate-did-nothing-to-hurt-trudeaus-popularity-forum-poll-says.html) 49/32/10. Justin's approval steady at 57%.

Holy crap, those NDP numbers are devastating. How many seats do you think the NDP would win with 10% of the nationwide vote?

If they centralize their votes in the right places and focus on maintaining rather than gaining, they shouldn't lose more than 10 or so.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 11, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
The NDP better hope the housing booms in Toronto and Vancouver burst and/or liberals antagonise Quebec.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 12, 2016, 07:04:36 AM
Trudeau considering a NATO request to deploy up to 1000 troops to Eastern Europe. (http://www.canada.com/news/national/liberals+98considering+nato+request+2c000+canadian+troops/11976373/story.html) Believe if seen.

Forum: (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/06/10/elbowgate-did-nothing-to-hurt-trudeaus-popularity-forum-poll-says.html) 49/32/10. Justin's approval steady at 57%.

Holy crap, those NDP numbers are devastating. How many seats do you think the NDP would win with 10% of the nationwide vote?

If they centralize their votes in the right places and focus on maintaining rather than gaining, they shouldn't lose more than 10 or so.

That's a big if though. The NDP vote is spread pretty thin. They didn't win many seats by a large margin. If you apply a proportional swing to Forum's regional numbers the NDP win maybe half a dozen seats.

Of course, the NDP will get a new leader, the economy might change, or the Liberals might anger the left, so it's far from hopeless, but the NDP are danger of very, very serious losses next election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 12, 2016, 01:03:47 PM
Wynne's Cabinet overhaul will be tomorrow. (https://twitter.com/robertbenzie/status/742054472483020800)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 12, 2016, 02:03:10 PM
[
Alberta NDP convention this weekend in Calgary. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-ndp-convention-2016-calgary-set-up-1.3624926)  According to Twitter, a resolution will be debated about whether the ABNDP should disaffiliate from the national party.

I really hope this passes. I'm not sure how this would work though.  According to my understanding of the Federal NDP rules, the Alberta NDP would have to change its name, and then the Federal NDP might be required to set up a new provincial Alberta NDP.

Hopefully I'm not right about the second part.  If the NDP lose the next B.C provincial election, I would hope and expect that a similar resolution would be presented at their first convention subsequent to that.

As a federal Liberal and (generally) provincial NDP supporter here in B.C, I really don't like it that only people who are members of the Federal NDP can be members of the provincial NDP.

You might argue in response 'that's just the way it goes' but I'd point out that if the NDP lose the next election, it would be five straight losses.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on June 12, 2016, 07:01:44 PM
[
Alberta NDP convention this weekend in Calgary. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-ndp-convention-2016-calgary-set-up-1.3624926)  According to Twitter, a resolution will be debated about whether the ABNDP should disaffiliate from the national party.

I really hope this passes. I'm not sure how this would work though.  According to my understanding of the Federal NDP rules, the Alberta NDP would have to change its name, and then the Federal NDP might be required to set up a new provincial Alberta NDP.

Wouldn't it work similar to the BC Liberals and the Federal party?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 13, 2016, 04:43:10 AM
[
Alberta NDP convention this weekend in Calgary. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-ndp-convention-2016-calgary-set-up-1.3624926)  According to Twitter, a resolution will be debated about whether the ABNDP should disaffiliate from the national party.

I really hope this passes. I'm not sure how this would work though.  According to my understanding of the Federal NDP rules, the Alberta NDP would have to change its name, and then the Federal NDP might be required to set up a new provincial Alberta NDP.

Wouldn't it work similar to the BC Liberals and the Federal party?

My understanding is that the Federal NDP Constitution mandates that any provincial or civic organization affiliated with the Federal NDP, so that would include any party that uses the name "New Democrat" is automatically tied to Federal NDP rules, so that a person who wants to join the provincial NDP also has to join the federal NDP.

I was just guessing that if the Alberta NDP voted to dissociate with the Federal NDP that the Federal NDP would be obligated under its Constitution to start up a new Alberta NDP, as, for instance, there is no provincial Quebec NDP  political party.  But even if there is no such rule, I would certainly expect that left wing members of the NDP in other provinces and in Alberta would demand that the Federal NDP start a new NDP provincial party in Alberta.

I can only name one New Democrat who was a member of the Provincial NDP who was allowed to not be part of the Federal NDP.  Laurent Desjardins, a member of the legislature in Manitoba for St. Boniface was elected as a provincial Liberal, but when the NDP under Ed Schreyer won the 1969 election with 28 of 57 seats, he was allowed to join the provincial NDP and was named Minister of Health sometime in 1970 or so, while being allowed to remain a Federal Liberal.

There was also some high profile NDP candidate in Quebec in 1988 who was given a special Federal NDP only card so that he didn't have to join the Provincial Quebec NDP which at that time was a fringe party led by some fairly odd people.

I believe the Federal NDP also turned a blind eye towards Bernie Simpson here in B.C who was an MLA from 1991-1996 and who, I'm pretty sure at the time, was regarded to be a Federal Liberal supporter, which turned out to likely be accurate as he played a major role in the Sheila Copps leadership campaign when she ran against Paul Martin.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 13, 2016, 06:00:59 AM
Another hostage has been executed by Abu Sayyaf. Government is aware. (https://twitter.com/CTVMercedes/status/742310258224300032)

Federal carbon tax being mooted by Finance. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/finance-canada-pondering-federal-carbon-tax-to-reduce-emissions/article30408215/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 21, 2016, 05:13:16 AM
The Trudeau government is expected to introduce changes to the taxation of medical practices with the view of avoiding physicians 'abuse' of small business taxation. So now, every accountant I know, including myself is rearranging their physician clients' affairs. This will cost money but will more or less mitigate the tax increase that the changes will bring about...

I'm starting to think Trudeau is in the pocket of the Chartered Accountants :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 22, 2016, 07:17:35 AM
CPP expansion plan has been released. Relevant points:

1) CPP premium will go from 4.95% to 5.95%. Coverage will expand from 25% of pre retirement income to 33%

2) CPP coverage will expand from the first $55k of earnings to over $80k.

3) WITB will expand to compensate for premium increase and CPP premiums over $55k will be tax deductible. ORPP will be scrapped.

I like the plan personally. After the OAS debacle I was skeptical that the Liberals would produce a reasonable CPP refirm, so I'll give Trudeau credit where it's due.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 22, 2016, 12:33:28 PM
CPP expansion plan has been released. Relevant points:

1) CPP premium will go from 4.95% to 5.95%. Coverage will expand from 25% of pre retirement income to 33%

2) CPP coverage will expand from the first $55k of earnings to over $80k.

3) WITB will expand to compensate for premium increase and CPP premiums over $55k will be tax deductible. ORPP will be scrapped.

I like the plan personally. After the OAS debacle I was skeptical that the Liberals would produce a reasonable CPP refirm, so I'll give Trudeau credit where it's due.



I'd like it if all payroll taxes that businesses pay were eliminated.  Tax the dividends or capital gains instead.

I also don't see why there needs to be payroll taxes for CPP and EI.  No other 'entitlement' is paid for by a direct tax, except for the health tax here in B.C.  Even gas taxes that are supposedly earmarked for transit projects mostly go into general revenue.

I can understand the idea for payroll taxes on workers, as it's probably best to have a broad range of taxes so as to keep each rate as low as possible.  "The art of taxation..." said the French finance minister a few hundred years ago.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 27, 2016, 05:26:17 AM
3 Amigos agenda. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/brexit-prompts-new-north-american-leaders-summit-agenda/article30621999/)

19 Senate vacancies will soon be filled. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/06/27/trudeau-government-poised-to-start-the-process-for-filling-19-vacant-senate-seats/71379)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 28, 2016, 10:30:42 AM
3 Amigos update. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/three-amigos-meet-what-to-expect-thisweek/article30629609/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 29, 2016, 08:15:15 AM
We will be sending several hundred troops to lead a NATO MNF in Latvia, and Trudeau will visit Ukraine after the NATO summit next week.  (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/06/29/carrots-and-sticks-play-prominent-role-in-canadian-policy-on-ukraine-paul-wells.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 29, 2016, 08:38:13 AM
15 minute longer commute. THANKS, OBAMA.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 01, 2016, 06:11:37 PM
Trudeau will visit China in September, shortly before the Hangzhou G20, and Chinese Premier Li will visit later that month. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/chinese-premier-li-keqiang-to-visit-canada-in-september/article30730397/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 04, 2016, 12:03:46 PM
Trudeau contemplating privatizing major airports to raise infrastructure cash.  (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/03/ottawa-eyes-airport-sell-off-to-raise-infrastructure-cash.html)

CETA still on track. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/despite-brexit-vote-key-eu-powers-vow-to-ratify-ceta-deal/article30737526/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on July 04, 2016, 02:54:15 PM
Trudeau contemplating privatizing major airports to raise infrastructure cash.  (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/03/ottawa-eyes-airport-sell-off-to-raise-infrastructure-cash.html)

CETA still on track. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/despite-brexit-vote-key-eu-powers-vow-to-ratify-ceta-deal/article30737526/)

would he sell the one named after his dad?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 04, 2016, 03:19:48 PM
Trudeau contemplating privatizing major airports to raise infrastructure cash.  (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/03/ottawa-eyes-airport-sell-off-to-raise-infrastructure-cash.html)

CETA still on track. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/despite-brexit-vote-key-eu-powers-vow-to-ratify-ceta-deal/article30737526/)

would he sell the one named after his dad?

Of course.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on July 04, 2016, 05:46:34 PM
Trudeau contemplating privatizing major airports to raise infrastructure cash.  (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/03/ottawa-eyes-airport-sell-off-to-raise-infrastructure-cash.html)

ALL LIBERAL ALL THE TIME


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on July 04, 2016, 11:20:49 PM
Taking from the Wynne handbook, I see.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 05, 2016, 05:38:01 AM
Alberta holding up an interprovincial trade deal. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/alberta-seeks-exemption-in-provincial-trade-deal-to-favour-local-firms/article30752429/)

EU slow-walking CETA at German & French request. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/ec-set-to-scrap-plans-to-fast-track-ceta-deal-report/article30753778/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hnv1 on July 05, 2016, 05:49:45 AM
Trudeau Jr. is like the dream liberal, he would have taken the democratic primaries in a walk


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 05, 2016, 08:32:56 AM
Meanwhile, in Australia:

()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on July 05, 2016, 05:19:48 PM
Trudeau Jr. is like the dream liberal, he would have taken the democratic primaries in a walk

He is a Conservative. A real Liberal would have booted Deepak Chopra, CEO of Canada Post, as soon he entered office. It's an union-busting, anti-equal pay, anti-customer state corporation which should have been reined in long ago (and Chopra banned from any position in government for mismanagement).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on July 06, 2016, 12:25:12 AM
Justin Trudeau is the dream Liberal with a capital L. Campaign as progressives, govern as technocratic centrists to keep "red Tories" satisfied, and very occasionally throw red meat to keep the NDP down.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 06, 2016, 05:13:06 AM
Trudeau Jr. is like the dream liberal, he would have taken the democratic primaries in a walk

He is a Conservative. A real Liberal would have booted Deepak Chopra, CEO of Canada Post, as soon he entered office. It's an union-busting, anti-equal pay, anti-customer state corporation which should have been reined in long ago (and Chopra banned from any position in government for mismanagement).

You sound like a lot of GOP rhetoric circa 2010


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hnv1 on July 06, 2016, 06:12:47 AM
Justin Trudeau is the dream Liberal with a capital L. Campaign as progressives, govern as technocratic centrists to keep "red Tories" satisfied, and very occasionally throw red meat to keep the NDP down.
...hence the perfect democratic candidate


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 09, 2016, 07:57:55 AM
No surprises in Abacus social issue polling. (http://abacusdata.ca/canadians-moral-compass-set-differently-from-that-of-our-neighbours-to-the-south/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: politicallefty on July 10, 2016, 02:21:28 AM
No surprises in Abacus social issue polling. (http://abacusdata.ca/canadians-moral-compass-set-differently-from-that-of-our-neighbours-to-the-south/)

I think it's pretty interesting that there are no differences between the US and Canada as to the acceptability of the death penalty. I know that many Western countries that have abolished the death penalty still retain general public support in the 50-60% range, but I'm still rather surprised that our two countries are so close as to the moral acceptability.

I'm also surprised that both the US and Canada are so strongly opposed to human cloning. Apart from religious reasons (and even those are debatable), so long as there are proper regulations in place, I don't understand why it's so strongly considered to be immoral.

Overall, I wish there were at least regional breakdowns as to this polling. Considering they're social issues, I'm sure Quebec is pulling Canada to the left and the South is pulling the US to the right. I have to wonder if the US without the South might actually be to the left on many social issues compared to Canada without Quebec. (Also, looking at the poll on pornography, Canadians are probably fairly more honest overall than Americans.)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on July 10, 2016, 03:49:29 AM
(Also, looking at the poll on pornography, Canadians are probably fairly more honest overall than Americans.)

It's dishonest to believe that something you do is immoral?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 10, 2016, 07:13:46 AM
No surprises in Abacus social issue polling. (http://abacusdata.ca/canadians-moral-compass-set-differently-from-that-of-our-neighbours-to-the-south/)

Well that confirms my guess that ~20-25% of Tories are socons. Also, I wish they had thrown in a few economic morality questions. Those might have shown a bit more of a divide between the Liberals and NDP.

(Also, looking at the poll on pornography, Canadians are probably fairly more honest overall than Americans.)

It's dishonest to believe that something you do is immoral?

Agreed


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 10, 2016, 08:07:06 AM
Trudeau visited Auschwitz before heading to Ukraine. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-poland-1.3672380)

Forum: (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/10/trudeaus-liberals-would-sweep-house-of-commons-seats-if-vote-held-today-new-poll-suggests.html)52/28/10. Almost a reverse 1958.

Brown woos Northern Ontario. (https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/are-these-the-tory-leaders-who-could-win-northern-ontario-333243)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 10, 2016, 11:36:04 AM
RB, Obviously it's really early days, and if the Chretien era is any guide to the future, Trudeau's margins will narrow closer to the election. However it's still possible the Liberals could cruise at these levels right through the 2019 election, particularly if the NDP doesn't get their act together. At what point would you start worrying if the Liberals continue to get 45-52% in the polls?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on July 10, 2016, 12:01:29 PM
If we get a PR-based electoral system, *and* the NDP moves left, then I think we'll see many conservatives strategically voting Liberal to grant them a majority.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 10, 2016, 12:14:26 PM
I'll start worrying in 18 months.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 10, 2016, 01:14:24 PM
It seems likely the Liberals will win the next election. Conservatives at the earliest may have a chance of forming government in 2023.

In January 2012, there was serious talk whether the Liberal Party would become a permanent third party like its British cousin. Hell, they were polling in 3rd last summer.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on July 10, 2016, 03:09:50 PM
It seems likely the Liberals will win the next election. Conservatives at the earliest may have a chance of forming government in 2023.

In January 2012, there was serious talk whether the Liberal Party would become a permanent third party like its British cousin. Hell, they were polling in 3rd last summer.

Yeah, but the Liberals have more built-in advantages than the CPC. The ability to pretend to be many things at once is a huge asset. And the only thing that was holding them back during their last slump was an apparent loss of credibility thanks a combination of poor leadership for almost a decade and the NDP projecting strength. The likes of Nikki Ashton won't be able to help make the NDP look like a serious party, and Trudeau will be a popular progressive/centrist incumbent.

Hell, Justin has the potential to beat Laurier's record as longest-serving consecutive prime minister... especially if we get some kind of preferential voting. It's a bit sad, really. But I doubt I'll have very compelling reasons to vote against him myself.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on July 10, 2016, 04:38:11 PM
Predicting the outcome of an election 4 years before is always a terrible idea.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 10, 2016, 06:43:28 PM
Predicting the outcome of an election 4 years before is always a terrible idea.

Especially in Canada, what with our habit of 25% swings.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 10, 2016, 10:14:38 PM
It seems likely the Liberals will win the next election. Conservatives at the earliest may have a chance of forming government in 2023.

In January 2012, there was serious talk whether the Liberal Party would become a permanent third party like its British cousin. Hell, they were polling in 3rd last summer.

Yeah, but the Liberals have more built-in advantages than the CPC. The ability to pretend to be many things at once is a huge asset. And the only thing that was holding them back during their last slump was an apparent loss of credibility thanks a combination of poor leadership for almost a decade and the NDP projecting strength. The likes of Nikki Ashton won't be able to help make the NDP look like a serious party, and Trudeau will be a popular progressive/centrist incumbent.

Hell, Justin has the potential to beat Laurier's record as longest-serving consecutive prime minister... especially if we get some kind of preferential voting. It's a bit sad, really. But I doubt I'll have very compelling reasons to vote against him myself.



lol @ bringing up Nikki Ashton for no reason.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 11, 2016, 05:38:20 AM
Polls: voters want an electoral reform referendum. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/07/11/referendum-question-dominates-initial-electoral-reform-committee-work/73344)

Hmm: senior Grit apparatchik likes preferential ballot. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/07/11/meet-jack-siegel-the-guy-who-led-grits-green-light-committee-and-why-he-favours-preferential-ballot-electoral-system/73044)

Trudeau signed a Ukrainian FTA today. (http://globalnews.ca/news/2815950/trudeau-signs-canada-ukraine-free-trade-agreement/?sf30679940=1)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on July 11, 2016, 04:39:20 PM
It seems likely the Liberals will win the next election. Conservatives at the earliest may have a chance of forming government in 2023.

In January 2012, there was serious talk whether the Liberal Party would become a permanent third party like its British cousin. Hell, they were polling in 3rd last summer.

Yeah, but the Liberals have more built-in advantages than the CPC. The ability to pretend to be many things at once is a huge asset. And the only thing that was holding them back during their last slump was an apparent loss of credibility thanks a combination of poor leadership for almost a decade and the NDP projecting strength. The likes of Nikki Ashton won't be able to help make the NDP look like a serious party, and Trudeau will be a popular progressive/centrist incumbent.

Hell, Justin has the potential to beat Laurier's record as longest-serving consecutive prime minister... especially if we get some kind of preferential voting. It's a bit sad, really. But I doubt I'll have very compelling reasons to vote against him myself.



lol @ bringing up Nikki Ashton for no reason.



There's a very good reason. She exemplifies the generally low calibre of the candidates who will be vying to replace Mulcair. It may not actually be her, but if you can convincingly find me a potential prime minister in the bunch I'll re-evaluate. I don't think you can.

So honestly, I stand by my assertion that the fundamentals are extremely favourable for the Liberal Party. And yes, when I say that I do mean for years and years to come.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 11, 2016, 04:53:31 PM
Hagrid, do you think Julian, Boulerice or Angus are "low-quality?"


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on July 11, 2016, 05:02:33 PM
Hagrid, do you think Julian, Boulerice or Angus are "low-quality?"

Angus still doesn't speak French, as far as I know.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on July 11, 2016, 06:57:03 PM
The NDP will take losses in Quebec no matter if the federal leader speaks French or not, and him learning is certainly not out of the question.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 11, 2016, 08:19:14 PM
Nikki Ashton will not win, so it's plain ol' trolling to bring up her name. Might as well keep talking about Brad Trost for leader of the Conservatives. But that would be intellectually dishonest.

RB is right re Julian and Boulerice. I also keep mentioning Jagmeet Singh as well as a potential candidate. The NDP has some strong leadership potentials, they're just not household names yet.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 14, 2016, 07:21:37 AM
AB-Insights West: (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/pcs-would-take-first-place-with-kenney-at-helm-poll-finds) 35/27/22.

ON-Forum: (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/07/14/ontario-progressive-conservatives-hold-lead-but-liberals-closing-gap-in-new-poll.html) 42/35/17.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 14, 2016, 07:26:16 AM
Nikki Ashton will not win, so it's plain ol' trolling to bring up her name. Might as well keep talking about Brad Trost for leader of the Conservatives. But that would be intellectually dishonest.

RB is right re Julian and Boulerice. I also keep mentioning Jagmeet Singh as well as a potential candidate. The NDP has some strong leadership potentials, they're just not household names yet.

I agree Nikki Ashton won't win, but I wouldn't discount Niki Ashton.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on July 14, 2016, 08:44:06 AM
Grenier: NDP won the First Nations reservation vote in 2015
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-on-reserve-voting-2015-1.3677098

()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 14, 2016, 08:56:16 AM
Headline "NDP still won the First Nations vote " is misleading, but what else to expect from Grenier? Article is about the reserve vote. I suspect the urban First Nations vote was more Liberal (look at Winnipeg Centre for example).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 14, 2016, 01:40:23 PM
Headline "NDP still won the First Nations vote " is misleading, but what else to expect from Grenier? Article is about the reserve vote. I suspect the urban First Nations vote was more Liberal (look at Winnipeg Centre for example).

I don't think Grenier can be blamed for that as most of the time (if not all of the time) the writer of the article doesn't write the headline.  Maybe that's just for newspapers and not for television websites though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 14, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
Maybe; but I'll take any excuse to complain about him ;)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 19, 2016, 09:56:07 AM
Dion replaces 20+ ambassadors (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/07/19/diplomatic-slate-swept-clean-of-more-than-two-dozen-tory-appointed-ambassadors/#.V44oIvnyuUk) while Philpott negotiates a new health accord. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeaus-smooth-provincial-relations-face-first-test-over-health-care/article30973916/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 19, 2016, 04:25:36 PM
Entire federal public service's personal info is now compromised. (https://twitter.com/CBCKatie/status/755513454165884928)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 22, 2016, 04:58:27 AM
NS NDP leader Gary Burrill will not run the Halifax Needham by-election and instead will run in Halifax Chebucto at the next GE. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ndp-nw-democratic-party-gary-burrill-seat-halifax-chebucto-1.3689460) Kind of a surprise move since Halifax Needham is basically a microcosm of the NDP, there's working class bits, minorities, students, and artsy activist types all in one riding.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 22, 2016, 09:22:18 AM
Internal trade as elusive as ever. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/beer-wars-provincial-trade-alcohol-1.3689589)

BC Grit election prep well underway. (http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/vaughn-palmer-liberals-begin-pre-election-transition-into-action-figures)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 22, 2016, 09:44:06 AM
Will we see a BC or NS election first?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on July 23, 2016, 03:31:33 PM
Will we see a BC or NS election first?

BC most likely.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on July 23, 2016, 03:47:22 PM
Will we see a BC or NS election first?
I don't see either provincial government as calling an early election. However if one did it probably would be Nova Scotia.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 27, 2016, 09:11:19 AM
Tootoo won't be readmitted to caucus despite finishing rehab. (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/758298787978809345) Wonder what else there is to this story.

Government wants a FDI-fuelled IT boom, a modern successor to Howe's postwar boom. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/27/justin-trudeaus-summer-homework-easing-canadas-brain-drain-paul-wells.html)

Duke and Duchess of Cambridge will be visiting this fall. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/07/27/newsalert-william-and-kate-are-coming-to-canada-for-their-second-visit-this-fall-2/#.V5jAFPkrKUl)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 28, 2016, 06:48:50 AM
Tootoo was expelled from caucus due to allegations of an inappropriate relationship with a junior staffer. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/sex-allegations-led-to-tootoos-ouster-from-liberal-caucus/article31146044/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 02, 2016, 07:29:22 AM
New Supreme Court nomination process: a 7-member advisory panel chaired by Kim Campbell will make recommendations, and Trudeau will choose from that list. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/why-canada-has-a-new-way-to-choose-supreme-court-judges/article31220275/)

Q2 fundraising # in: (https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/760478268155768832) $5.1M/$4.9M/$1.1M.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 06, 2016, 06:23:05 AM
Mel Hurtig has died (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-born-mel-hurtig-remembered-as-agitator-proud-canadian-1.3707798)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 06, 2016, 06:39:48 AM
Wells on a potential debate commission. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/06/everyone-has-a-stake-in-national-leaders-debates-paul-wells.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on August 07, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
So, I volunteered at the Liberal tent at a Korean heritage festival in Burnaby South yesterday. I had a decent time, but I have to say that I completely underestimated a certain phenomenon at play in federal election politics today. An old lady—a frequent volunteer for the party—pointed it out and I scoffed because I thought it was kind of an insulting way to think of female voters, but through the day it proved to be surprisingly insightful: Women really, legitimately swoon over Justin Trudeau. And the Liberal Party knows it, so virtually all of their branding goes heavy on using his name and picture.

We gave out gigantic posters of his face, little post cards of his face, buttons with his face on them... and women would come and get so giddy and take everything. They took photos with the large sign panel of Trudeau. It's astounding to me. And sadly, I highly doubt they could have told me much of anything about his policies.

Is it a big factor? I don't know. But Trudeau has an image that will be very, very difficult to tarnish, especially now that he has the incumbency on his side. The whole thing put a very sour taste in my mouth. And although I will probably vote Liberal in the next election, I continue to be, uh... not the biggest fan of the Prime Minister. It was great to see him and his perfect family at Pride last weekend, but I can't get over some things about the guy and how his image has been constructed and received.

But I remain convinced that he could literally be the prime minister for decades.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Ebsy on August 07, 2016, 12:21:59 PM
Twitter has been going crazy with shirtless pics of Trudeau on vacation.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 08, 2016, 12:45:02 PM
To be fair, there are a few female politicians that I have swooned over in the past, even Conservative ones (e.g. Helena Guergis).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 08, 2016, 11:56:17 PM
So, I volunteered at the Liberal tent at a Korean heritage festival in Burnaby South yesterday. I had a decent time, but I have to say that I completely underestimated a certain phenomenon at play in federal election politics today. An old lady—a frequent volunteer for the party—pointed it out and I scoffed because I thought it was kind of an insulting way to think of female voters, but through the day it proved to be surprisingly insightful: Women really, legitimately swoon over Justin Trudeau. And the Liberal Party knows it, so virtually all of their branding goes heavy on using his name and picture.

We gave out gigantic posters of his face, little post cards of his face, buttons with his face on them... and women would come and get so giddy and take everything. They took photos with the large sign panel of Trudeau. It's astounding to me. And sadly, I highly doubt they could have told me much of anything about his policies.

Is it a big factor? I don't know. But Trudeau has an image that will be very, very difficult to tarnish, especially now that he has the incumbency on his side. The whole thing put a very sour taste in my mouth. And although I will probably vote Liberal in the next election, I continue to be, uh... not the biggest fan of the Prime Minister. It was great to see him and his perfect family at Pride last weekend, but I can't get over some things about the guy and how his image has been constructed and received.

But I remain convinced that he could literally be the prime minister for decades.

Care to expand? Is it that he essentially went from night club bouncer to Prime Minister?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 09, 2016, 06:09:11 AM
So, I volunteered at the Liberal tent at a Korean heritage festival in Burnaby South yesterday. I had a decent time, but I have to say that I completely underestimated a certain phenomenon at play in federal election politics today. An old lady—a frequent volunteer for the party—pointed it out and I scoffed because I thought it was kind of an insulting way to think of female voters, but through the day it proved to be surprisingly insightful: Women really, legitimately swoon over Justin Trudeau. And the Liberal Party knows it, so virtually all of their branding goes heavy on using his name and picture.

We gave out gigantic posters of his face, little post cards of his face, buttons with his face on them... and women would come and get so giddy and take everything. They took photos with the large sign panel of Trudeau. It's astounding to me. And sadly, I highly doubt they could have told me much of anything about his policies.

Is it a big factor? I don't know. But Trudeau has an image that will be very, very difficult to tarnish, especially now that he has the incumbency on his side. The whole thing put a very sour taste in my mouth. And although I will probably vote Liberal in the next election, I continue to be, uh... not the biggest fan of the Prime Minister. It was great to see him and his perfect family at Pride last weekend, but I can't get over some things about the guy and how his image has been constructed and received.

But I remain convinced that he could literally be the prime minister for decades.

However, that is a bit of a stretch. The stuff you describe tends to wear of fairly quickly as incumbency and your record begins to weigh down on you.

This is true. Dynasties and Interludes (https://www.amazon.ca/Dynasties-Interludes-Canadian-Electoral-Politics/dp/1554887968) has a great account of Trudeaumania 1.0. Trudeau Sr. cruised to victory in 1968, but by 1972 surveys had begun to describe him as arrogant and he nearly lost re-election. By the late 1970's that reputation had been firmly cemented.

Although the fundamentals are extremely sound for the Liberal Party right now, and they will probably win re-election next time, it is conceivable that Justin Trudeau could screw up and have a shorter term in office than Stephen Harper. Suppose we have nasty recession in 2018-2019 and Trudeau makes some off the cuff remarks that come off as uncaring and arrogant. It's not that difficult to imagine especially in Canadian politics.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 09, 2016, 12:03:40 PM
Depends if Justin can consolidate the left while keeping the centre. What Hagrid is describing is Grit Inc., when there was no opposition to speak of inside or outside Parliament till 1945, and a mostly useless one thereafter. (Put another way, do you think he's a political genius like King?) He'll definitely win in 2019, beyond that depends on the economy and remaining scandal-free.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pandaguineapig on August 09, 2016, 01:54:31 PM
Depends if Justin can consolidate the left while keeping the centre. What Hagrid is describing is Grit Inc., when there was no opposition to speak of inside or outside Parliament till 1945, and a mostly useless one thereafter. (Put another way, do you think he's a political genius like King?) He'll definitely win in 2019, beyond that depends on the economy and remaining scandal-free.
His reign as Pm will probably last as long as he has CBC and other major news networks on his jock, his image is doing more for the liberals than any policy or program ever could, if he loses that he could be done very quickly


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 09, 2016, 11:46:59 PM
I think it's important to know that Justin hasn't just been camping shirtless and abusing MPs, he has gotten things done that were in the Liberal platform.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pandaguineapig on August 10, 2016, 12:54:10 AM
I think it's important to know that Justin hasn't just been camping shirtless and abusing MPs, he has gotten things done that were in the Liberal platform.
Yeah but the way CBC fawns over him is similar to how Russia today  covers Putin lol


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hash on August 10, 2016, 01:07:00 AM
I think it's important to know that Justin hasn't just been camping shirtless and abusing MPs, he has gotten things done that were in the Liberal platform.
Yeah but the way CBC fawns over him is similar to how Russia today  covers Putin lol

Please leave.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pandaguineapig on August 10, 2016, 01:08:16 AM
I think it's important to know that Justin hasn't just been camping shirtless and abusing MPs, he has gotten things done that were in the Liberal platform.
Yeah but the way CBC fawns over him is similar to how Russia today  covers Putin lol

Please leave.
It's a hyperbole lol


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: JerryArkansas on August 10, 2016, 03:24:08 AM
I think it's important to know that Justin hasn't just been camping shirtless and abusing MPs, he has gotten things done that were in the Liberal platform.
Yeah but the way CBC fawns over him is similar to how Russia today  covers Putin lol

Please leave.
It's a hyperbole lol
Still, please show yourself out of this thread.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 10, 2016, 08:19:30 AM
While it is very likely he'll win re-election in 2020, nothing is certain in Canadian politics, so I would be very cautious about making bold predictions.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 10, 2016, 08:47:54 PM
Planned ISIS suicide bombing of a major city was thwarted by security services. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadian-terror-threat-linked-to-police-operation-in-ontario-town-1.3023694)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 11, 2016, 10:32:38 AM
Elizabeth May is considering resigning as Leader of the Greens. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elizabeth-may-taking-time-off-to-consider-resigning-as-green-party-leader/article31356925/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pandaguineapig on August 11, 2016, 01:39:44 PM
I think it's important to know that Justin hasn't just been camping shirtless and abusing MPs, he has gotten things done that were in the Liberal platform.
Yeah but the way CBC fawns over him is similar to how Russia today  covers Putin lol

Please leave.
It's a hyperbole lol
Still, please show yourself out of this thread.

Why does he need to do that?
This is a safe space for Canada


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: JerryArkansas on August 12, 2016, 12:03:39 AM
I think it's important to know that Justin hasn't just been camping shirtless and abusing MPs, he has gotten things done that were in the Liberal platform.
Yeah but the way CBC fawns over him is similar to how Russia today  covers Putin lol

Please leave.
It's a hyperbole lol
Still, please show yourself out of this thread.

Why does he need to do that?
Because you, him and others are ruining the commentary which was taking place in the damn thread.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Zioneer on August 12, 2016, 01:45:33 AM
Do the Greens have anybody even remotely notable besides Elizabeth May?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 12, 2016, 04:39:06 AM
Do the Greens have anybody even remotely notable besides Elizabeth May?

They've elected a couple MLA's who are semi-prominent.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 12, 2016, 08:20:04 AM
Do the Greens have anybody even remotely notable besides Elizabeth May?

They've elected a couple MLA's who are semi-prominent.

In otherwords, no.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 12, 2016, 03:56:17 PM
I think it's important to remember that Elizabeth May wasn't too widely known when she was first elected leader. It wouldn't surprise me if the Greens picked a relative unknown with some political experience. Gord Miller (former Environmental Commissioner of Ontario) is a likely contender and the kind of person who would likely succeed her. David Chernushenko (Ottawa City Councillor) is another possibility, along with Andrew Weaver (BC MLA and BC Greens Leader).

This is a rather remote possibility, and is speculation, but if May were to have a particularly rocky exit from the leadership, I could see her crossing the floor and joining the Liberals.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 12, 2016, 04:20:08 PM
Canola dispute threatens to cloud Trudeau's G20 Beijing visit. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canola-dispute-threatens-to-overshadow-trudeaus-trip-to-china/article31384092/) As for May, she's been Grit-friendly throughout her leadership, especially when Dion was Grit leader. Highly unlikely but not totally impossible.

Immigration levels will be substantially increased from this year's 285-305k target. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/john-mccallum-substantially-increase-immigration-labour-shortages-1.3718831?cmp=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 14, 2016, 02:56:27 PM
I think it's important to remember that Elizabeth May wasn't too widely known when she was first elected leader. It wouldn't surprise me if the Greens picked a relative unknown with some political experience. Gord Miller (former Environmental Commissioner of Ontario) is a likely contender and the kind of person who would likely succeed her. David Chernushenko (Ottawa City Councillor) is another possibility, along with Andrew Weaver (BC MLA and BC Greens Leader).

This is a rather remote possibility, and is speculation, but if May were to have a particularly rocky exit from the leadership, I could see her crossing the floor and joining the Liberals.

Chernushenko has been a rather lacklustre city councillor. She probably doesn't speak French, but Adrienne Carr in Vancouver is the strongest Green city councillor in the country.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hash on August 14, 2016, 03:26:28 PM
It's not like the Green Party actually exists in Quebec, though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 15, 2016, 09:30:36 AM
It's not like the Green Party actually exists in Quebec, though.

True, but the leader should at least be able to speak broken French, if they want to participate in t he debates. Only a right wing populist type (e.g. Preston Manning) can get away with not speaking French as leader, as part of their appeal would be not wanting to appease Quebeckers.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 16, 2016, 08:36:19 PM
RIP Mauril Belanger. (https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/765722198845845504) :(

Delacourt floats the idea that May joins the Grits. (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/08/16/is-liz-may-looking-to-make-a-leap-to-the-liberals/) Been waiting for this since 2008.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 17, 2016, 08:08:35 PM
It's not like the Green Party actually exists in Quebec, though.

True, but the leader should at least be able to speak broken French, if they want to participate in t he debates. Only a right wing populist type (e.g. Preston Manning) can get away with not speaking French as leader, as part of their appeal would be not wanting to appease Quebeckers.

When Elizabeth May would speak French, which wasn't often, it was astoundingly bad. I tend to think that people are more critical of how Anglophones' fluency in French than vice versa, but still.

But yeah, a Green leader doesn't need to speak French as much as the others do.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lotuslander on August 18, 2016, 08:17:29 PM
A new opinion poll for BC today by Innovative Research - a CATI poll (landline/cell) with these results:

BC Lib: 38%
BC NDP: 29%
BC Green: 16%
BC Con: 15
Other: 2%

https://www.scribd.com/document/321630168/Innovative-Research-Group-Survey#from_embed



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 19, 2016, 12:00:22 AM
A new opinion poll for BC today by Innovative Research - a CATI poll (landline/cell) with these results:

BC Lib: 38%
BC NDP: 29%
BC Green: 16%
BC Con: 15
Other: 2%

https://www.scribd.com/document/321630168/Innovative-Research-Group-Survey#from_embed



That's incredibly sad.

Also, it's incredibly interesting that the BC Conservatives are starting to poll somewhat highly (higher than they got in the last elections, at least). I'm really not sure what they would have to run on, though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 19, 2016, 06:25:55 AM
Meanwhile in Ontario, (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/08/19/ontario-tories-hold-steady-lead-in-latest-poll.html) Tories holding steady at 41/28/23. Really need a Scarborough poll though.

Wells on Philpott's limo bill. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/19/philpotts-limo-bill-offers-warning-to-liberals-in-future-paul-wells.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 19, 2016, 08:36:42 AM
A new opinion poll for BC today by Innovative Research - a CATI poll (landline/cell) with these results:

BC Lib: 38%
BC NDP: 29%
BC Green: 16%
BC Con: 15
Other: 2%

https://www.scribd.com/document/321630168/Innovative-Research-Group-Survey#from_embed



That's incredibly sad.

Also, it's incredibly interesting that the BC Conservatives are starting to poll somewhat highly (higher than they got in the last elections, at least). I'm really not sure what they would have to run on, though.

The high Green numbers are hurting the NDP. I suspect come election time, the Green vote will go down as left of centre voters rally behind the NDP in a futile effort to stop the Liberals from winning.

Hopefully if the Liberals do lead for most of the campaign, the Conservative will remain high.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 19, 2016, 12:00:48 PM
Will Brown recruit the doctors to his cause? (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/national/ontario-pc-leader-brown-must-weigh-political-costs-of-aligning-with-doctors/article31462289/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe?ord=1)

Cabinet shuffle at the top of the hour. (https://twitter.com/InklessPW/status/766687833063034882)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 19, 2016, 01:07:32 PM
Bardish Chagger is now House Leader. Weird to give a rookie that post, but we know NOTHING MATTERS. (https://twitter.com/AaronWherry/status/766697750922686464)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: emcee0 on August 19, 2016, 01:13:53 PM
Bardish Chagger is now House Leader. Weird to give a rookie that post, but we know NOTHING MATTERS. (https://twitter.com/AaronWherry/status/766697750922686464)
I'm sure she'll do great!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 19, 2016, 06:56:21 PM
Seems odd that Trudeau/The Liberals has included so many South Asians and no East Asians in his Government. Just something I've noticed.

She worked for Trudeau's 2013 leadership campaign, so the two probably have some sort of personal camaraderie.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 20, 2016, 05:50:31 AM
Seems odd that Trudeau/The Liberals has included so many South Asians and no East Asians in his Government. Just something I've noticed.

She worked for Trudeau's 2013 leadership campaign, so the two probably have some sort of personal camaraderie.

IIRC, heavily East Asian ridings stayed relatively Tory while South Asian ridings swung hard Liberal last time. That has to play a part.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 20, 2016, 12:01:22 PM
Seems odd that Trudeau/The Liberals has included so many South Asians and no East Asians in his Government. Just something I've noticed.

She worked for Trudeau's 2013 leadership campaign, so the two probably have some sort of personal camaraderie.

IIRC, heavily East Asian ridings stayed relatively Tory while South Asian ridings swung hard Liberal last time. That has to play a part.

Yeah, I guess that's the case. The Liberals do have some East Asian MPs, though. I'm sure that had Ted Hsu stayed in Parliament he would have got some sort of Cabinet position dealing with  science/technology.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 21, 2016, 07:43:39 PM
May's decision could come as early as tomorrow. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/green-party-leader-elizabeth-may-to-decide-political-future-soon/article31484201/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DINGO Joe on August 21, 2016, 08:12:15 PM
Not really politics (though Trudeau was there) but the Tragically Hip's final concert was quite....lovely?  Didn't quite realize how popular the band was up there.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 22, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
Duke and Duchess of Cambridge will tour BC/Yukon the last week of September. (https://twitter.com/CBCAlerts/status/767693140350361600)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 22, 2016, 08:51:44 AM
Not really politics (though Trudeau was there) but the Tragically Hip's final concert was quite....lovely?  Didn't quite realize how popular the band was up there.

It was very touching. Was nearly in tears. How do you know about them? From what I gather they aren't well known in the US.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 22, 2016, 09:02:06 AM
May is staying as leader. (https://twitter.com/kady/status/767723148234010624)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DINGO Joe on August 22, 2016, 12:52:10 PM
Not really politics (though Trudeau was there) but the Tragically Hip's final concert was quite....lovely?  Didn't quite realize how popular the band was up there.

It was very touching. Was nearly in tears. How do you know about them? From what I gather they aren't well known in the US.

Well, I've lived in New Orleans for some time now and they wrote one song that wasn't about Canada.  Actually saw them play in New Orleans back in the early 90s.  Can't say that I had kept up with them over the years, but I started seeing stories about Gordon and his cancer and the final show, so I tuned in.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2016, 08:50:24 AM
Elsie Wayne has died. RIP. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/768077806672773125)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 23, 2016, 09:11:03 AM
Not really politics (though Trudeau was there) but the Tragically Hip's final concert was quite....lovely?  Didn't quite realize how popular the band was up there.

It was very touching. Was nearly in tears. How do you know about them? From what I gather they aren't well known in the US.


Well, I've lived in New Orleans for some time now and they wrote one song that wasn't about Canada.  Actually saw them play in New Orleans back in the early 90s.  Can't say that I had kept up with them over the years, but I started seeing stories about Gordon and his cancer and the final show, so I tuned in.

Interesting; how many people were there?

Elsie Wayne has died. RIP. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/768077806672773125)

Oh wow. RIP


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DINGO Joe on August 23, 2016, 10:45:39 AM
Not really politics (though Trudeau was there) but the Tragically Hip's final concert was quite....lovely?  Didn't quite realize how popular the band was up there.

It was very touching. Was nearly in tears. How do you know about them? From what I gather they aren't well known in the US.


Well, I've lived in New Orleans for some time now and they wrote one song that wasn't about Canada.  Actually saw them play in New Orleans back in the early 90s.  Can't say that I had kept up with them over the years, but I started seeing stories about Gordon and his cancer and the final show, so I tuned in.

Interesting; how many people were there?


It was in a decent sized open venue (no seating).  I think House of Blues though it could have been Tipitina's.  Not packed but full, maybe 400 people.    "New Orleans is Sinking" would get radio airplay locally long after it came out and this was well after it had been released, but it was still the centerpiece of the show, they played a much longer jammed out version.  I know they came back thru town after Katrina, but I didn't see that show.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 24, 2016, 12:29:33 PM
Amusing FCO 80s dispatches on leading political personalities. Agree with most of them. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/files-show-what-uk-diplomats-really-thought-of-1980s-canada-but-were-too-polite-tosay/article31509943/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 24, 2016, 02:34:25 PM
Richard Hatfield: "very much a bachelor".  I suppose it was common knowledge what this was code for? :D


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 25, 2016, 06:36:53 AM
O'Malley (http://ottawacitizen.com/storyline/kady-monsefs-road-to-electoral-reform-may-not-be-able-to-bypass-referendum?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter) and Hebert (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/25/its-risky-to-use-todays-trends-to-predict-the-electoral-future-hbert.html) on electoral reform.

Trudeau's top choice for ambassador to Beijing has declined. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-fails-to-land-mckinsey-executive-for-envoy-post-in-china/article31547489/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 26, 2016, 06:35:01 AM
Crossposted for obvious reasons: Harper is leaving politics today. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-26/canada-s-harper-iconic-conservative-leader-to-quit-politics?nnw0999)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on August 26, 2016, 07:06:35 PM
Trudeau delivers speech to largest private sector union in Canada. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-strategy-union-ndp-1.3735987)

In the transcript of the speech, Trudeau capitalizes the word "Labour", as if it were a formal organization (ex. party), rather than a movement (ex. labour movement) or noun/verb.

Could a rebranding of the Liberal party be in the works? (Perhaps a "Labour Party of Canada)?

Dear god no... right?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 26, 2016, 07:10:27 PM
No, that's just a strategic move to keep the NDP down. Grits have been doing this with social democratic third parties for nearly a century, it ain't new. Most recently, Paul Martin campaigned with then CAW-chief Buzz Hargrove in 2004/6.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on August 27, 2016, 03:53:09 PM
No, that's just a strategic move to keep the NDP down. Grits have been doing this with social democratic third parties for nearly a century, it ain't new. Most recently, Paul Martin campaigned with then CAW-chief Buzz Hargrove in 2004/6.

It's not just the union speech, it's Trudeau capitalizing "Labour" throughout his speech, as well as making Liberal party membership free and stating he wants to transform the party into a "movement".

It can only be a movement if it becomes the "Labour" party (ie: the Labour movement).

At least that's what has happened in Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

That has happened in exactly none of those places. In Australia and New Zealand the liberal party (that is to say, the pro-free trade party) merged with the conservative party (that is to say, the anti-free trade party), while in Britain the liberal party was reduced to third-party status.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 27, 2016, 07:58:50 PM
NYT on Beijing's attempts to manipulate the Chinese community. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/world/americas/chinese-canadians-china-speech.html?ref=world&_r=0)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Green Line on August 27, 2016, 09:57:19 PM
No, that's just a strategic move to keep the NDP down. Grits have been doing this with social democratic third parties for nearly a century, it ain't new. Most recently, Paul Martin campaigned with then CAW-chief Buzz Hargrove in 2004/6.

It's not just the union speech, it's Trudeau capitalizing "Labour" throughout his speech, as well as making Liberal party membership free and stating he wants to transform the party into a "movement".

It can only be a movement if it becomes the "Labour" party (ie: the Labour movement).

At least that's what has happened in Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

That would make no sense.  They're riding high right now, why rock the boat?  Canada already has a Social Democratic Party, and they've already poached most of the votes from them that they can.  It would be a dumb move.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 28, 2016, 06:33:59 AM
No, that's just a strategic move to keep the NDP down. Grits have been doing this with social democratic third parties for nearly a century, it ain't new. Most recently, Paul Martin campaigned with then CAW-chief Buzz Hargrove in 2004/6.

It's not just the union speech, it's Trudeau capitalizing "Labour" throughout his speech, as well as making Liberal party membership free and stating he wants to transform the party into a "movement".

It can only be a movement if it becomes the "Labour" party (ie: the Labour movement).

At least that's what has happened in Britain, Australia and New Zealand.

That would make no sense.  They're riding high right now, why rock the boat?  Canada already has a Social Democratic Party, and they've already poached most of the votes from them that they can.  It would be a dumb move.

This. If they tried to take the NDP's remaining 10-15% support, they'd lose just as much, if not more to the Tories.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 28, 2016, 07:54:56 AM
No one will be naming their party "labour" in the 21st century (let alone a neo-liberal one). Sorry, comrades.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 30, 2016, 05:53:45 AM
Hugh Segal has issued his guaranteed minimum income report. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minimum-income-hugh-segal-ontario-budget-1.3740373)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 30, 2016, 05:33:17 PM
Canada Post strike action averted. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/08/30/newsalert-canada-post-postal-union-avert-job-action-reach-tentative-deals-2/#.V8YJcCgrKUl)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on August 31, 2016, 05:07:55 PM
Canada Post strike action averted. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/08/30/newsalert-canada-post-postal-union-avert-job-action-reach-tentative-deals-2/#.V8YJcCgrKUl)

"Strike" action. Right-wing hackiness, a lock-out was more likely.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 01, 2016, 12:08:21 PM
The PBO confirms the effects of inflation on the new Canada Child Benefit. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pbo-canada-child-benefit-buying-power-1.3744308) The Liberals won't index until 2020, largely because its f[inks]ing expensive.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on September 02, 2016, 12:25:48 AM
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/09/01/patrick-browns-sex-ed-snafu-dominates-scarborough-byelection.html

God isn't done with Canada yet. :)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 02, 2016, 07:08:02 AM
Wells thinks the electoral reform process will collapse and government backs off.
 (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/02/electoral-reform-consultations-are-in-full-swing-sort-of-paul-wells.html)

DND HQ cost $1B, security not up to IC standards. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/department-of-national-defences-new-1-billion-facility-falls-short-on-security/article31685234/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on September 03, 2016, 01:18:50 AM
Can somebody give a quick-and-simple rundown of Wynne's sex ed curriculum and why it's so disliked?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 03, 2016, 06:55:57 AM
Can somebody give a quick-and-simple rundown of Wynne's sex ed curriculum and why it's so disliked?

Before I answer, I'd like to note how hard it is to find a synopsis of the curriculum online free of over the top rhetoric. The socons are hysterical, and socially liberal writers/publications seem to think no one could ever have a rational reason to oppose it. It took a surprisingly long amount of time to look this up and get a sense of the issues :P

Anyway, here is a quick list of some of the more controversial parts of the curriculum:

1) The curriculum introduces the concept of gender fluidity in the third grade and makes lots of references to 'birth-assigned sex' as opposed to 'sex. Homosexuality and gay marriage are also talked about in third grade.
2) Masturbation is discussed in sixth grade. Oral and anal sex are discussed in seventh grade.
3) It advocates 'making a personal plan' about your sexual activity in middle school, with no references to love or marriage.*

There's also been some controversy because the deputy minister of education (i.e. highest ranking non-politician in the department) when the curriculum was written is currently in prison for possession of child pornography and 'counselling to commit sexual assault'.

*Admittedly this seems like it's awkward tightrope walking by the writers, who realize they can't just tell kids about all this sexual activity without some sort of guidance around sexual decisions, but at the same time don't want to be seen as promoting a particular moral view either.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on September 03, 2016, 06:59:27 AM
3) It advocates 'making a personal plan' about your sexual activity in middle school,

what the Christ


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on September 03, 2016, 07:02:30 AM
Holy crap, that is even worse than I originally thought...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 03, 2016, 08:58:24 AM
Léger federal (http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/09/03/campes-sur-leurs-positions) poll: 53-25-12 nationally, 51-17-16-12 here. Provincial ballot is 34-29-23.

Feds could join Alberta in phasing out coal. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/federal-government-could-join-albertas-coal-phase-out)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 03, 2016, 03:55:01 PM
lol at the childless non-Ontarians criticizing the curriculum. Worry about your own repressed right wing backwaters.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on September 03, 2016, 04:48:17 PM
Worry about your own repressed right wing backwaters.

Uh, okay? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_County,_Massachusetts#Politics)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 03, 2016, 06:25:13 PM
Worry about your own repressed right wing backwaters.

Uh, okay? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_County,_Massachusetts#Politics)

Social liberalism presents its superior case once again.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 03, 2016, 07:31:49 PM
Worry about your own repressed right wing backwaters.

Uh, okay? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_County,_Massachusetts#Politics)

Don't you know? Democrats = conservatives in the Canadian context ;)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on September 04, 2016, 07:20:36 AM
Worry about your own repressed right wing backwaters.

Uh, okay? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_County,_Massachusetts#Politics)

Don't you know? Democrats = conservatives in the Canadian context ;)

Point taken!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 04, 2016, 09:50:49 AM
New coastal strategy will be announced soon. (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/News/12169932/story.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 07, 2016, 06:56:31 PM
Whoa: potential caucus coup against Mulcair soon. Possible interim replacements are Julian, Rankin or Cullen. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/tom-mulcair-unlikely-to-return-to-parliament-as-ndp-leader-after-low-profile-summer)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 07, 2016, 07:06:46 PM
Whoa: potential caucus coup against Mulcair soon. Possible interim replacements are Julian, Rankin or Cullen. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/tom-mulcair-unlikely-to-return-to-parliament-as-ndp-leader-after-low-profile-summer)

Seems kind of pointless to me. What exactly is to be gained here besides making the lame duck leader leave three years before an election instead of two?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on September 07, 2016, 09:48:52 PM
Whoa: potential caucus coup against Mulcair soon. Possible interim replacements are Julian, Rankin or Cullen. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/tom-mulcair-unlikely-to-return-to-parliament-as-ndp-leader-after-low-profile-summer)

Seems kind of pointless to me. What exactly is to be gained here besides making the lame duck leader leave an three years before an election instead of two?

The issue seems than he did no fundraising/activities over the summer.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 12, 2016, 09:43:46 AM
Stephen Harper has taken a job at Dentons (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-law-firm-dentons-1.3758088)

I never got the whole, career after politics thing. If I spent a decade as PM, I'd write my memoirs, do a few speeches for extra cash, and spend a lot of time golfing and/or sleeping :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 12, 2016, 09:53:30 AM
Quarterly CRA Atlantic Canada polls are out. Check out Newfoundland!

Nova Scotia
Liberal: 56% (-2)
Tory: 22% (+1)
NDP: 19% (+1)

New Brunswick
Liberal: 54% (+2)
Tory: 28% (+3)
NDP: 8% (-4)
Green: 8% (-1)

Newfoundland
Liberal: 34% (+7)
Tory: 34% (nc)
NDP: 32% (-6)

PEI
Liberal: 64% (+6)
Tory: 19% (-1)
NDP: 8% (+1)
Green: 9% (-6)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on September 12, 2016, 10:19:36 AM
Woah,  and the Newfie grits were starting from behind after their landslide victory. I assume some oil induced austerity?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 12, 2016, 10:45:30 AM
Woah,  and the Newfie grits were starting from behind after their landslide victory. I assume some oil induced austerity?

Correct. Oil royalties went from 30% of revenue to 7% and they had some pretty nasty structural issues in their economy as well. Despite drastic austerity, they still have the worst deficit as a % of GDP in the country. Glad I don't live on the Rock right now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 12, 2016, 12:25:10 PM
Tootoo was in a love triangle with not only his staffer but said staffer's mother.
 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/hunter-tootoos-messy-love-triangle-helped-spur-resignation-from-cabinet/article31822441/)
Because it's 2016, Justin is keeping Harper's GHG targets for now. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201609/11/01-5019448-ges-trudeau-sen-tient-aux-cibles-de-harper.php)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on September 12, 2016, 12:32:39 PM
Tootoo was in a love triangle with not only his staffer but said staffer's mother.
 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/hunter-tootoos-messy-love-triangle-helped-spur-resignation-from-cabinet/article31822441/)

a y y l m a o
y
y
l
m
a
o


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 12, 2016, 12:37:32 PM
Tootoo was in a love triangle with not only his staffer but said staffer's mother.
 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/hunter-tootoos-messy-love-triangle-helped-spur-resignation-from-cabinet/article31822441/)

a y y l m a o
y
y
l
m
a
o

Bahahahaha


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on September 12, 2016, 03:23:51 PM
Stephen Harper has taken a job at Dentons (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-law-firm-dentons-1.3758088)

I never got the whole, career after politics thing. If I spent a decade as PM, I'd write my memoirs, do a few speeches for extra cash, and spend a lot of time golfing and/or sleeping :P

I know, right? I suppose making more money is his ambition, and you can never have too much of that, I guess.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 12, 2016, 05:46:30 PM
Woah,  and the Newfie grits were starting from behind after their landslide victory. I assume some oil induced austerity?

Literally closing half of the libraries in the province wasn't very popular to say the least.

Disappointing to see they've rebounded a bit :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on September 12, 2016, 06:05:13 PM
Stephen Harper has taken a job at Dentons (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-law-firm-dentons-1.3758088)

I never got the whole, career after politics thing. If I spent a decade as PM, I'd write my memoirs, do a few speeches for extra cash, and spend a lot of time golfing and/or sleeping :P

I know, right? I suppose making more money is his ambition, and you can never have too much of that, I guess.
He's building financial security for his children. He's not a super rich guy and he's still young, so I respect his decision.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 13, 2016, 03:41:35 PM
Paul Hellyer  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer)is giving a talk in Halifax next week.

Sadly he's talking about globalization and not UFOs, but I'm still planning on going.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 16, 2016, 07:12:19 AM
Globe on pipelines. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/tough-calls-ahead-for-trudeau-on-aboriginal-issues/article31913955/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 16, 2016, 08:32:32 AM
Nova Scotia municipal elections are in a few weeks. They aren't nearly as interesting as last time when the inner of districts shrunk and several incumbents faced off. I'm considering not voting as my councillor and school board rep have been acclaimed and the mayor is polling at 85 percent :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 16, 2016, 08:35:48 AM
Never, ever consider not voting.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 16, 2016, 08:52:04 AM

Ok Mom, you always know best. :)

I'll still vote. We have e-voting here, so I really don't have an excuse. And the thought of voting in my pyjamas is appealing :D


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 16, 2016, 09:14:50 AM
:D

I was just doing some reading up on the NS municipals yesterday. Will probably do a thread about it soon. Anything exciting happening across the province? I see that fraudster Dave Wilson is running for a Cape Breton council seat.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 16, 2016, 10:23:35 AM
:D

I was just doing some reading up on the NS municipals yesterday. Will probably do a thread about it soon. Anything exciting happening across the province? I see that fraudster Dave Wilson is running for a Cape Breton council seat.

Not too much going on. There's a couple of interesting council races in Halifax. Dave Wilson is running. Oh, here's another eyebrow raiser:

The Town of Amherst mayor's race has among other candidates, former NDP MLA for Cumberland North, Brian Skabar, and a city councilor who is best known for saying "I'm not your n***er" to a constituent while delivering pizzas.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 16, 2016, 12:32:55 PM
StatsCan chief abruptly quits, blames Harper for undermining his office's integrity and Justin for not fixing it. (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/canadas-chief-statistician-quits-statistic-canada)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Simfan34 on September 16, 2016, 06:33:20 PM
Stephen Harper has taken a job at Dentons (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-law-firm-dentons-1.3758088)

I never got the whole, career after politics thing. If I spent a decade as PM, I'd write my memoirs, do a few speeches for extra cash, and spend a lot of time golfing and/or sleeping :P

Maybe he got a few quotes for a memoir advance and found it wanting.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 18, 2016, 07:12:54 AM
McKenna confirms the Harper GHG targets will remain.
 (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberals-back-away-from-setting-tougher-carbon-targets-1.3075857#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=ocMiVmd)
Forum-ON: (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/09/18/tories-gain-in-popularity-over-liberals-in-ontario-poll.html) 45/25/23.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hash on September 18, 2016, 03:56:24 PM
Woah,  and the Newfie grits were starting from behind after their landslide victory. I assume some oil induced austerity?

Correct. Oil royalties went from 30% of revenue to 7% and they had some pretty nasty structural issues in their economy as well. Despite drastic austerity, they still have the worst deficit as a % of GDP in the country. Glad I don't live on the Rock right now.

It also doesn't really help that the Nfld Liberals ran on an absurd "we'll make the economy boom again while still rolling back the HST increase and simplifying taxes" platform in 2015, and then proceeded to maintain that HST hike, raise taxes and slash spending in their 2016 budget.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 18, 2016, 07:57:01 PM
McKenna confirms the Harper GHG targets will remain.
 (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberals-back-away-from-setting-tougher-carbon-targets-1.3075857#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=ocMiVmd)
Forum-ON: (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/09/18/tories-gain-in-popularity-over-liberals-in-ontario-poll.html) 45/25/23.

If the NDP pivots to the left in the next campaign, they should have no problems coming in 2nd place. Progressives will flock to them when they realize that the Liberals are too unpopular to be able to win again.

Of course, if the NDP runs another populist campaign against the inevitable blue tide, then the Tory landslide is going to be gross.

I know the Liberals have been predicted to lose the last few elections and haven't... but I think this time they are just too toxic.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 19, 2016, 10:23:03 AM
More signals Trudeau may punt on electoral reform. (https://www.hilltimes.com/2016/09/19/parliamentary-schedule-could-delay-major-electoral-reform-despite-committee-rush/80430)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 19, 2016, 02:06:04 PM
Socon pressure groups are pissed at Brown for double-crossing them.  (http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/19/ontario-pc-leader-patrick-browns-supporters-upset-with-his-sex-ed-curriculum-flip-flop) They can only whine and Brown can let them suck it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 19, 2016, 02:18:53 PM
The socons are the only thing stopping him from winning a landslide at this point.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 19, 2016, 02:25:32 PM
So, Brown basically won the Tory leadership by exploiting the sensibilities of activist so con group in a campaign that was never really exposed by the media (we all thought Elliott would win, right?); so now that he's the leader he can pivot and moderate himself.

A cynic's very definition of chameleon politician.

I do feel sorry for the socons. They're probably the most manipulated political group in the country. They're desperate to vote for that one pro-life candidate so they can feel good about not supporting a 'pro-murder' candidate.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 19, 2016, 02:30:21 PM
They were either delusional or suckers if they thought Brown was gonna do that. You'd think the Harper decade would cure them of delusions. A guy whose political mentors are Mulroney and Charest, who was involved in the living dead PCPC, is not gonna be your champion.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 19, 2016, 08:13:04 PM
Brown's statement. (https://twitter.com/allisonjones_cp/status/778037524887433216)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 19, 2016, 09:09:30 PM
I do feel sorry for the socons. They're probably the most manipulated political group in the country. They're desperate to vote for that one pro-life candidate so they can feel good about not supporting a 'pro-murder' candidate.

Socons, especially older ones, have an astonishing amount of faith in elected officials. It's really served us poorly.

They were either delusional or suckers if they thought Brown was gonna do that. You'd think the Harper decade would cure them of delusions. A guy whose political mentors are Mulroney and Charest, who was involved in the living dead PCPC, is not gonna be your champion.

Tory leaders take us for granted. Not showing up for them would teach them, but they serve as a useful buffer against the excesses of the social left. It's not like Premiers Howarth or Wynne would do our side much good either. It's a tough line to walk.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 19, 2016, 09:18:39 PM
I'm sure I'll write an effortpost on what strategies socons should pursue someday, but for now I'll just note:

1) We need to accept that we are a vocal minority, not a moral majority.
2) Setting up our own cultural institutions has been much more successful than political activism.
3) Political activism isn't totally useless.

Strategy should proceed from those principles. Ultra-orthodox Jews in NYC might be a good model here.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on September 20, 2016, 10:22:24 AM
BC NDP back in the lead in provincial polling

Mainstreet Research  September 20th

BC NDP 38%
BC Liberal 33%
Green 16%
Conservative 14%
Other 1%

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-ndp-lead-b-c-liberals-in-new-poll (http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-ndp-lead-b-c-liberals-in-new-poll)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 20, 2016, 09:39:47 PM
20 new senators will be appointed in the next few weeks. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/21/liberals-are-expected-to-appoint-20-new-senators-within-weeks.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 21, 2016, 09:40:27 AM
All PEI schools are being evacuated due to a threat. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-schools-evacuation-1.3772113)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on September 21, 2016, 01:16:50 PM
Part of me thinks Trudeau/Butts is sincere about wanting electoral reform, in small part so that the so-cons in the CPC will become encouraged to break off and form their own party, and thus destroy the CPC as a united entity. It could depend on ~10% of the national vote and therefore 30ish seats, a very significant representation.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on September 21, 2016, 01:49:54 PM
The Conservative Senate majority won't last for long:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/21/liberals-are-expected-to-appoint-20-new-senators-within-weeks.html


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 22, 2016, 02:02:17 PM
Part of me thinks Trudeau/Butts is sincere about wanting electoral reform, in small part so that the so-cons in the CPC will become encouraged to break off and form their own party, and thus destroy the CPC as a united entity. It could depend on ~10% of the national vote and therefore 30ish seats, a very significant representation.

That is the reason I like PR. It would give us a lot more influence within the conservative movement, and give us some more diversity on economics instead of having to toe the Tory fiscal line. Also, the idea of threatening to bring down a government over a pet issue like the Israeli parties can do, is really appealing :D


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 22, 2016, 08:04:04 PM
Butts and Telford are partially repaying their moving expenses.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on September 22, 2016, 09:41:32 PM
The NDP Québec (provincial party) is holding meetings in Quebec City and Montreal this weekend to see who could be local leaders and familiiarize future volunteers with provincial electoral laws.

It is a registered party with 300 members. They say if they decide to be an active party they will be ready in time for the 2018 election.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/480582/un-pas-de-plus-vers-un-npd-quebecois (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/480582/un-pas-de-plus-vers-un-npd-quebecois)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 23, 2016, 12:36:06 PM
The NDP Québec (provincial party) is holding meetings in Quebec City and Montreal this weekend to see who could be local leaders and familiiarize future volunteers with provincial electoral laws.

It is a registered party with 300 members. They say if they decide to be an active party they will be ready in time for the 2018 election.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/480582/un-pas-de-plus-vers-un-npd-quebecois (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/480582/un-pas-de-plus-vers-un-npd-quebecois)

Is it expected that they will 'go active'? If so, how much support could they realistically get, given that they are down so much from their 2011 high?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 23, 2016, 01:00:20 PM
If they do, probably no more than our Tories.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 23, 2016, 02:13:03 PM
How well known is Pierre Ducasse in Quebec? It's really weird that he has been out of the spotlight over the last 5 years.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on September 23, 2016, 02:37:06 PM
How well known is Pierre Ducasse in Quebec? It's really weird that he has been out of the spotlight over the last 5 years.

Not very much.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on September 23, 2016, 03:26:45 PM
Brad Test goes all SJW and said Leitch's Muslim-baiting makes him feel discriminated against:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/tories-who-support-traditional-marriage-feeling-discriminated-against-trost-1.3081392


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on September 23, 2016, 09:18:05 PM
How well known is Pierre Ducasse in Quebec? It's really weird that he has been out of the spotlight over the last 5 years.

He wanted to get the nomination in Manicouagan in the last federal election but withdrew a couple of weeks after his announcement. He would have challenged a sitting MP.

He announced in late September 2014 (for the October 2015 election) and the riding nomination was called for early November so that gave him about a week to sell memberships to people who would be eligible to vote at the nomination meeting. He asked for the date to be in January but it was maintained and he withdrew.

He didn't seem to be aware of the nomination date. I don't know if the date was chosen before he made his announcement or the nomination meeting scheduled in a hurry fater he made his announcement so he didn't have time to organize his campaign to protevt the MP. That was one year before the election.

A provincial NDPQ might run candidates in the next election just to start building for the future. Parties get public financing according to their total vote share, so if they get a minimal source of income it can help to survive until the next election.         


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 23, 2016, 11:31:06 PM
Maybe Mulcair can enter provincial politics again :D


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on September 23, 2016, 11:45:17 PM
Maybe Mulcair can enter provincial politics again :D

He should never have left.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 24, 2016, 11:35:03 AM
Beginning to wonder how long Dion keeps his portfolio. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/dion-denies-extradition-treaty-negotiations-with-china/article32042048/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on September 24, 2016, 02:57:21 PM
Maybe Mulcair can enter provincial politics again :D

He should never have left.

He was forced out by the provincial leadership of his party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 27, 2016, 08:16:23 PM
Feds are approving the Pacific Northwest LNG project in BC. (https://twitter.com/keithbaldrey/status/780938631808585728)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on September 28, 2016, 10:55:26 AM
lol Ipsos

Ontario Liberals would win election if held today: http://globalnews.ca/news/2968555/liberal-support-rises-but-ontarians-believe-province-headed-in-wrong-direction-poll/
40 OLP/35 PC/20 NDP


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 28, 2016, 02:16:24 PM
Another junk poll from Ipsos - SAD!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 28, 2016, 10:00:22 PM
Chretien, Harper, Dion and Ambrose will attend Peres' funeral.

Butts is arguing with journos on Twitter that Monsef stories have racial motivations.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 30, 2016, 07:25:15 PM
Grit MP was loose-lipped about the Supreme Court shortlist.
 (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/30/secret-short-list-of-supreme-court-nominees-sparks-uproar-in-atlantic-canada.html)

CETA still up in the air. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-eu-trade-deal-could-come-unstuck-over-faulty-envelope-glue-really)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 03, 2016, 03:03:02 PM
Carbon  (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2016/10/03/national-carbon-price-to-be-10-a-tonne-in-2018-50-by-2022-trudeau-says/#.V_K2FygrKUl)tax will be in place within 2 years and housing regulatory screws are being tightened. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ottawa-unveils-new-housing-measures-to-slow-foreign-real-estate-investment/article32206297/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 14, 2016, 11:38:09 AM
RIP Jim Prentice: he died in a Kelowna plane crash. (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/14/jim-prentice-dead-in-plane-crash-source/) :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 14, 2016, 02:21:54 PM
When I saw that his name was trending, I thought he had entered the Conservative leadership race. As unlikely as that is...

RIP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 15, 2016, 07:23:44 AM
When I saw that his name was trending, I thought he had entered the Conservative leadership race. As unlikely as that is...

RIP.

Funny how life is. A couple different decisions, and he could very well be Premier of Alberta, not on that plane, and a Tory leadership front runner.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 16, 2016, 07:51:54 AM
Wells on the proposed Canada Infrastructure Bank. In Grit tradition, will require yuge FDI as fuel. (https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/10/16/justin-trudeaus-trillion-dollar-question.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 17, 2016, 10:53:10 AM
BREAKING: Judge Malcolm Rowe of the Newfoundland Court of Appeal has been appointed to the Supreme Court. (http://pm.gc.ca/fra/nouvelles/2016/10/17/premier-ministre-annonce-la-nomination-du-juge-malcolm-rowe-la-cour-supreme-du)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 19, 2016, 10:05:13 AM
Globe on Justin's 1st year. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-year-one/article32419055/)

Alberta: PCs lead Wildrose 38/25 and 2/3 of Albertans support a united Right. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-shocking-poll-shows-huge-backing-for-pcs-and-unity-drive)

Justin continues edging away from electoral reform. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/482514/la-reforme-electorale-n-est-plus-garantie)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vosem on October 19, 2016, 12:16:04 PM
Only saw this just now, but wow, RIP Jim Prentice. He had a very sad last few years of what should've been a very promising career.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 21, 2016, 06:19:07 AM
Here in Quebec, Grit MNA Gerry Sklavounos was expelled from caucus after being accused of sexual assault. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201610/20/01-5032524-allegations-dagression-sexuelle-gerry-sklavounos-force-de-se-retirer-du-caucus-liberal.php)

Wells: Justin should be careful about walking away from major promises. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/10/21/liberals-taking-a-gamble-by-reversing-election-promises-paul-wells.html)

Forum-ON: (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/10/21/49-per-cent-believe-wynne-wont-lead-liberals-into-2018-vote-forum-poll.html) 43/24/23, 49% of Ontarians want a new OLP leader by 2018. Wynne's disapproval at 77%. Now I'm really curious about an Ottawa-Vanier poll.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 22, 2016, 09:41:45 AM
First Minister approval ratings: Justin leads at 65%, McLauchlin, Pallister and Wall are the most popular premiers. (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/65-approve-trudeau-coulliard-popular-premier-nationally/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 22, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
The murderous cult of "Jehovah' Witnesses" killed someone else by denial of blood transfusion, yet no government is ready to take action.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 22, 2016, 06:28:12 PM
The murderous cult of "Jehovah' Witnesses" killed someone else by denial of blood transfusion, yet no government is ready to take action.

Ok I'll bite. What is 'action' in your mind?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 22, 2016, 06:35:51 PM
The murderous cult of "Jehovah' Witnesses" killed someone else by denial of blood transfusion, yet no government is ready to take action.

Ok I'll bite. What is 'action' in your mind?

Require written authorization for denial of blood transfusion.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 22, 2016, 06:56:39 PM
The murderous cult of "Jehovah' Witnesses" killed someone else by denial of blood transfusion, yet no government is ready to take action.

Ok I'll bite. What is 'action' in your mind?

Require written authorization for denial of blood transfusion.

You mean like this? (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/jehovahs-witness-quebec-eloise-dupuis-1.3813974)

Quote
Quebec Health Minister Gaétan Barrette says he has proof a 27-year-old Jehovah's Witness woman who died after giving birth at a hospital near Quebec City understood the risks of refusing a blood transfusion, but insisted one not be performed.

snip

"She was informed, she signed documents many times. She knew, and she made it clear, that if something was to happen, because of her religion she didn't want any transfusion," Barrette told CBC Montreal's Daybreak.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 22, 2016, 07:01:17 PM
The murderous cult of "Jehovah' Witnesses" killed someone else by denial of blood transfusion, yet no government is ready to take action.

Ok I'll bite. What is 'action' in your mind?

Require written authorization for denial of blood transfusion.

You mean like this? (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/jehovahs-witness-quebec-eloise-dupuis-1.3813974)

Quote
Quebec Health Minister Gaétan Barrette says he has proof a 27-year-old Jehovah's Witness woman who died after giving birth at a hospital near Quebec City understood the risks of refusing a blood transfusion, but insisted one not be performed.

snip

"She was informed, she signed documents many times. She knew, and she made it clear, that if something was to happen, because of her religion she didn't want any transfusion," Barrette told CBC Montreal's Daybreak.



There was a second case this week, where the husband pretended such paperwork was filled too, but nobody can find it.

And, in any case, representatives of religious organisations have no business in an hospital.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 22, 2016, 07:07:54 PM
The murderous cult of "Jehovah' Witnesses" killed someone else by denial of blood transfusion, yet no government is ready to take action.

Ok I'll bite. What is 'action' in your mind?

Require written authorization for denial of blood transfusion.

You mean like this? (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/jehovahs-witness-quebec-eloise-dupuis-1.3813974)

Quote
Quebec Health Minister Gaétan Barrette says he has proof a 27-year-old Jehovah's Witness woman who died after giving birth at a hospital near Quebec City understood the risks of refusing a blood transfusion, but insisted one not be performed.

snip

"She was informed, she signed documents many times. She knew, and she made it clear, that if something was to happen, because of her religion she didn't want any transfusion," Barrette told CBC Montreal's Daybreak.



There was a second case this week, where the husband pretended such paperwork was filled too, but nobody can find it.

And, in any case, representatives of religious organisations have no business in an hospital.

Of course. Prayers for the dying are sooooo passe ::)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on October 22, 2016, 07:18:27 PM
There was a second case this week, where the husband pretended such paperwork was filled too, but nobody can find it.

Reprehensible if true.

Quote
And, in any case, representatives of religious organisations have no business in an hospital.

You can't be serious.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 23, 2016, 04:01:51 PM
Quote
And, in any case, representatives of religious organisations have no business in an hospital.

You can't be serious.

I'm not talking of prayers or last services for dying people, but in this case, their goal is clearly is not to support the family, but to frighten people in renouncing their freedom of choice and doing as the sect decided ("do as we, or we will report on it and exclude you"). That's pure coercision and that should be clearly banned in hospitals.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: politicallefty on October 24, 2016, 03:47:40 AM
This may seem like an odd diversion, but what ever happened with the proposed Quebec provincial NDP? There seems to be a huge void for left-wing federalists that could easily be fulfilled by a strong NPDQ.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 24, 2016, 06:24:28 AM
This may seem like an odd diversion, but what ever happened with the proposed Quebec provincial NDP? There seems to be a huge void for left-wing federalists that could easily be fulfilled by a strong NPDQ.

They announced on October 12 that they are going forward with the idea, there will be a convention in Fall 2017 to elect a permanent leader and adopt a platform.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 25, 2016, 07:17:40 AM
Joe Oliver will run provincially in York Centre. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/10/25/joe-oliver-to-run-for-ontario-tories-in-2018-election.html) Won't happen, but would be amusing to see him as finance minister at both levels of government. :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 25, 2016, 02:36:29 PM
Justin hints at TPP ratification. (http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/trudeau-signals-canadian-tpp-approval-amid-european-trade-delays)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 25, 2016, 05:29:37 PM
Quote
And, in any case, representatives of religious organisations have no business in an hospital.

You can't be serious.

I'm not talking of prayers or last services for dying people, but in this case, their goal is clearly is not to support the family, but to frighten people in renouncing their freedom of choice and doing as the sect decided ("do as we, or we will report on it and exclude you"). That's pure coercision and that should be clearly banned in hospitals.

What's that saying? One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

Pro-lifers often complain of pressure to abort babies with disabilities and they are relatively accepted. Jehovah's Witnesses are an unpopular minority, who take a highly unusual approach to medicine. Its quite plausible that they may feel pressure to go against their religion and would want aid to ensure their Charter rights are protected.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on October 26, 2016, 06:00:56 AM
Joe Oliver will run provincially in York Centre. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/10/25/joe-oliver-to-run-for-ontario-tories-in-2018-election.html) Won't happen, but would be amusing to see him as finance minister at both levels of government. :P

Some "young blood" to replace Monte Kwinter!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 26, 2016, 12:43:56 PM
More hints (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/spurning-the-elites-the-day-our-rank-and-file-roared/article32519718/) that Justin may punt on electoral reform. (http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/25/so-what-happens-if-the-electoral-reform-committee-cant-agree/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on October 31, 2016, 01:53:59 PM
Kwinter, 85, says he plans to run again.  Kwinter has been recovering from an illness though, and presumably Oliver (who is 76) is planning to run for the PCs in York Centre because they think Kwinter may not finish his term.

http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/ex-federal-finance-minister-oliver-seeks-provincial-nod-in-york-centre

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/10/17/mpp-absence-not-unprecedented





Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 31, 2016, 07:19:19 PM
How big is Kwinter's personal vote? Would he be a decent pick for an unexpected holdout against a Tory majority if he wins again?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on October 31, 2016, 09:44:42 PM
Hard to say.  I suspect a lot of his hard core supporters over the years have died of old age.   


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 01, 2016, 10:50:44 AM
Economy grew by 0.2% in August. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-s-economy-grew-0-2-per-cent-in-august-1.3140712)

What to expect from this afternoon's econ update. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-morneau-update-1.3829833)

Feds will sharply reduce use of mandatory minimums. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ottawa-plans-to-reduce-use-of-mandatory-prison-sentences/article32609570/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 01, 2016, 04:13:01 PM
Econ update: financial position deteriorating, more red ink will gush. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-election-poll-datapath-systems-1.3830239)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 02, 2016, 05:29:24 AM
British Columbia Court of Appeal has ruled in favour of Trinity Western University and against the Law Society of B.C.'s attempt to deny TWU's law accreditation. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/trinity-western-law-1.3831024?cmp=rss)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 03, 2016, 06:23:38 AM
Econ update: financial position deteriorating, more red ink will gush. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-election-poll-datapath-systems-1.3830239)

Colour me surprised ::)

I will now drink ruefully... well not really because it's 8am but you get my drift.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on November 03, 2016, 10:54:16 AM
Econ update: financial position deteriorating, more red ink will gush. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-election-poll-datapath-systems-1.3830239)

this links to an article on the election in Yukon


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on November 04, 2016, 02:02:19 PM
I started a thread on the Ontario 2018 election:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=250768.0


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 05, 2016, 08:16:45 PM
HuffPo with a Grit perspective on Justin's first year. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/05/trudeau-friends-one-year-liberals_n_12814166.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 07, 2016, 05:08:23 PM
I just met Kellie Leitch. She took my planning to not vote for her well.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 07, 2016, 08:46:55 PM
Clark approves of Justin's marine protection plan. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/trudeau-promises-plan-for-marine-spill-response/article32705582/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 07, 2016, 09:07:49 PM
So I went to a Nova Scotia PC fundraiser tonight. To show you how different Maritime politics are, Jamie Baille, the Tory leader, spent a solid third of his speech attacking Stephen McNeil's "cuts to the bone". He actually used the phrase "you can't balance the budget on the backs of the poor".


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 08, 2016, 12:28:50 AM
OMG. PEI voted form MMP in their electoral reform plebiscite!!!!

http://www.electionspei.ca/plebisciteresults

Glorious news! Thank you potato headed anne of gablers!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 08, 2016, 08:51:48 AM
Another electoral reform wrinkle. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/nationwide-electoral-reform-survey-surprises-and-disappoints-trudeaus-political-opponents)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 08, 2016, 09:42:35 AM
Ugh. David Akin opposes electoral reform, so I don't know if I can trust his analysis here.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 08, 2016, 10:12:56 AM
Ontario will allow municipalities to restore photo radar near schools, all 3 parties support it. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/11/08/a-diver-was-looking-for-sea-cucumbers-he-may-have-found-a-long-lost-nuclear-bomb-instead/)

Hatman: Well, CW does indicate a punt for now. :P

Cool: We found a missing (dummy) nuke from a 1950 USAF B-36 crash. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/11/08/a-diver-was-looking-for-sea-cucumbers-he-may-have-found-a-long-lost-nuclear-bomb-instead/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 10, 2016, 08:20:58 AM
We're starting on thin ice with Trump, some personal diplomacy would help. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-offers-to-renegotiate-nafta-in-effort-to-warm-ties-with-trump/article32781686/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on November 10, 2016, 08:24:41 AM
lol Trump is friends with Mulroney? lmao


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 11, 2016, 10:16:44 AM
We're starting on thin ice with Trump, some personal diplomacy would help. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-offers-to-renegotiate-nafta-in-effort-to-warm-ties-with-trump/article32781686/)

SAD!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 14, 2016, 09:17:31 AM
MacLauchlan confirmed to be terrible Premier: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/11/08/pei-voters-support-switch-to-proportional-representation-in-non-binding-plebiscite.html


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on November 14, 2016, 06:04:33 PM
We're starting on thin ice with Trump, some personal diplomacy would help. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-offers-to-renegotiate-nafta-in-effort-to-warm-ties-with-trump/article32781686/)

SAD!
Having a drama teacher who knows how to stroke an ego (while the details are snarled up in endless committee meetings) won't hurt at all.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 17, 2016, 10:44:46 PM
Grits considering sole sourcing Super Bugs as a stopgap fighter. (http://www.canada.com/news/national/liberals+again+considering+sole+source+purchase+super+hornet/12400551/story.html)

Monsef: no consensus on a particular voting system. (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/no-consensus-among-canadians-on-particular-voting-system-maryam-monsef-writes-to-committee)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 20, 2016, 10:31:24 AM
Expat  (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/19/liberals-to-expand-voting_n_13084200.html)voting rights might be expanded, and Enbridge  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/enbridge-line-3-federal-cabinet-approval-1.3857397)will be decided this week.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 20, 2016, 05:43:29 PM
MacLauchlan confirmed to be terrible Premier: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/11/08/pei-voters-support-switch-to-proportional-representation-in-non-binding-plebiscite.html

This is absurd. (While, admittedly he has a point about the low turnout, a switch to proportional representation would be very beneficial in a place like Canada).

Turnout was not that bad (I mean, terrible for PEI standards, but still), considering it is about the same as your average by-election or municipal election. And those who cared voted. Those who didn't, didn't, and if you don't care enough to vote, you don't care enough about the outcome.

The Liberal Party's flagrant disregard for the democratic deficit is a big reason I've never considered supporting them at all in my adult life.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 20, 2016, 07:08:46 PM
Of course an important referendum like Quebec separation would never have bad turnout. The 1995 referendum had a 94% turnout.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 22, 2016, 01:03:45 PM
18 Superbugs will join the Air Force as a stopgap. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fighter-jet-purchase-announcement-1.3862210?cmp=rss)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 24, 2016, 11:04:56 AM
Globe's Laura Stone on electoral legislation. (https://twitter.com/l_stone/status/801814640015638528)

Electoral reform committee will recommend a referendum. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/electoral-reform-committee-set-to-recommend-referendum-1.3175262)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 24, 2016, 03:42:35 PM
Alberta poll (http://innovativeresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/October-2016-Alberta-Provincial-Politics.pdf)

Tory: 39%
Wildrose: 25%
NDP: 14%!
Liberal: 14%



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 27, 2016, 09:43:33 AM
Electoral reform is dead.  (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/no-electoral-reform-until-enough-canadians-want-it-monsef-says-1.3177209#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=mhp5E7a)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Cubby on November 27, 2016, 11:03:08 AM
Trudeau could teach those jerks on the streets of Miami a thing or two about proper decorum when a famous world leader dies. When was the last time anyone anywhere danced around in public because someone died? Its not done for anyone else but I guess Cuban refugees are allowed a free pass.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on November 27, 2016, 11:59:04 AM
Electoral reform is dead.  (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/no-electoral-reform-until-enough-canadian s-want-it-monsef-says-1.3177209#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=mhp5E7a)

What a shame.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 27, 2016, 12:02:32 PM
Trudeau could teach those jerks on the streets of Miami a thing or two about proper decorum when a famous world leader dies. When was the last time anyone anywhere danced around in public because someone died? Its not done for anyone else but I guess Cuban refugees are allowed a free pass.

I recall that happened when Margaret Thatcher died. And let's get real here. The man was a dictator who censored the press, and executed dissidents. The level of decorum is different.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on November 27, 2016, 01:17:12 PM
Trudeau could teach those jerks on the streets of Miami a thing or two about proper decorum when a famous world leader dies. When was the last time anyone anywhere danced around in public because someone died? Its not done for anyone else but I guess Cuban refugees are allowed a free pass.
I remember celebrations in the UK when Thatcher died. We can debate whether it is in good taste or not to celebrate someone's death, but that does not excuse a democratically-elected leader of a so-called free country lionizing a brutal dictator. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of Canadians did not consider Castro a "remarkable leader", and it damages the country's reputation abroad when its leader says such outrageous things.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Cubby on November 27, 2016, 03:19:07 PM
I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 27, 2016, 05:27:21 PM
I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on November 28, 2016, 05:41:02 AM
I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.

Since when aren't eulogies 'Wasn't he a wonderful person, blah, blah, blah" nonsense?

It was the exact same thing when the vile POS Antonin Scalia died.

In my opinion, in terms of abusing their positions, Scalia was every bit as bad and as evil as Fidel Castro was.

Yet, for instance, here in the Atlas Forum nobody was allowed to write at the time of Scalia's death anything along the lines of: "Wonderful news that this POS Scalia is dead.  I know he's going to rot in Hell where he belongs for all eternity."

Trudeau's comments were nonsensical but the effusive praise about the pond scum Scalia were also equally nonsensical.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 28, 2016, 06:13:42 AM
I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.

Since when aren't eulogies 'Wasn't he a wonderful person, blah, blah, blah" nonsense?

It was the exact same thing when the vile POS Antonin Scalia died.

In my opinion, in terms of abusing their positions, Scalia was every bit as bad and as evil as Fidel Castro was.

Yet, for instance, here in the Atlas Forum nobody was allowed to write at the time of Scalia's death anything along the lines of: "Wonderful news that this POS Scalia is dead.  I know he's going to rot in Hell where he belongs for all eternity."

Trudeau's comments were nonsensical but the effusive praise about the pond scum Scalia were also equally nonsensical.

::)

That's right. I forgot when Scalia seized power in a bloody revolution, executed dissidents and put people in forced labour camps.

Good grief, this false equivalency is foolish.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Intell on November 28, 2016, 06:23:20 AM
They have the right to party, when Castro died, I would've done the same thing with Thatcher. They don’t have any claims on supporting democracy or any of that shyte, they were fine with Bautista as their dictator, and only left because a lot of them were landowning elite who would’ve have property take from them, if they would have faced repression, that still doesn’t mean they can cry DEMOCCRACY, when many of them supported a Bautista dictatorship, when they benefited from it.  All this shyte on “Free Cuba” and all the rest, there fine in where Cuba was a banana republic to the US, ripe with prostitution, gambling, casinos while the other half of the country, was full with poverty and desolation. They have no basis in attacking Castro, less so on democratic grounds but more on ground that HE WAS A COMMIE who took their property, especially in where most of them were supporting a bay of pigs invasion, and a goal of assassinating a foreign leader. Many who left Cuba, were of the middle class and the rich.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on November 28, 2016, 06:39:16 AM
I forgot about Thatcher, it's true there was some uncouth behavior when she died but that was all online, unless there was a conga line through the streets of Sheffield or Glasgow that wasn't reported in the US.

Maybe it's different for Trudeau because he or his father met Castro, not sure what the history is there. It's easy to criticize someone but if you had a relationship with them, in passing or not, the first response might not be to call him a murderous dictator, even if that's the truth.

It's not even that. I get that he's a world leader and he can't just go and damn Castro to hell. I'd be happy to settle for something mealy mouthed like President Obama's statement, but PM Trudeau's was a bridge too far.

Since when aren't eulogies 'Wasn't he a wonderful person, blah, blah, blah" nonsense?

It was the exact same thing when the vile POS Antonin Scalia died.

In my opinion, in terms of abusing their positions, Scalia was every bit as bad and as evil as Fidel Castro was.

Yet, for instance, here in the Atlas Forum nobody was allowed to write at the time of Scalia's death anything along the lines of: "Wonderful news that this POS Scalia is dead.  I know he's going to rot in Hell where he belongs for all eternity."

Trudeau's comments were nonsensical but the effusive praise about the pond scum Scalia were also equally nonsensical.

::)

That's right. I forgot when Scalia seized power in a bloody revolution, executed dissidents and put people in forced labour camps.

Good grief, this false equivalency is foolish.

For some reason you didn't highlight the first part of my sentence.  Could you please explain to me why you did  that.

Here is one article that may or may not be balanced "Is Scalia the most vile person in Washington"

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/05/is_scalia_the_most_vile_person_in_washington/

As the article correctly points out, he assisted in the undemocratic court majority that installed George W Bush as President and prevented a proper recount that would have more accurately determined the actual winner on the basis of reasons that the court clearly itself agreed were nonsense.  That alone showed that when given the opportunity he was every bit as undemocratic as Castro was.

He lied he was a 'Constitutional originalist' yet routinely cast that aside in order to make the ruling that he wanted whether he could find any justification for it in the Constitution or not.  

This included his rulings that would have let the death penalty stand for people who were innocent or intellectually disabled.  That's not the same as personally ordering the executions of dissidents, but if you have to argue that sort of thing on the basis of which is worse, I don't think you have a winning argument there.

He defended torture on the basis that he saw how well it worked in the fictional T.V show '24.'  That is neither a joke nor an unbalanced interpretation of what he said.  He also voted in favor of things that benefited private prisons that do, in fact, sometimes use prisoners as labor, which is obviously forced.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/21/its_time_to_end_antonin_scalias_prison_state_how_the_next_scotus_justice_could_help_end_mass_incarceration/

He routinely made racist, sexist and homophobic comments and clearly was a sexist, racist homophobe.

He dismissed legitimate concerns over conflict of interest.

He was complete scum and he completely abused his position and the world is a better place without him in it, just as the world is a better place without Fidel Castro in it.

In the context that I used, there was no false equivalency.  He didn't need to overthrow the government in order to abuse his office.

The man who Castro overthrew was a brutal dictator as well, btw, so there was no way to remove him from office without a bloody revolution in order to abuse his office.

He wasn't in a position to execute dissidents or put people into forced labor camps personally, but I think I've made a pretty decent case that he was every bit as vile as he could be in his position as Castro was in his position and also that he was as vile a human as Castro was.

So, no.  There was no false equivalency from me in the slightest.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 29, 2016, 04:52:23 PM
Trans Mountain & Line 3 approved, Northern Gateway dead. (https://twitter.com/HannahThibedeau/status/803717612786057218)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 29, 2016, 06:22:20 PM
I am scoffing Adam, because I think the idea of functional equivalency between positions is an absurd premise. What functional equivalence is there to setting up a concentration camp in other professions? There is none, because heads of state operate at a whole different level from the rest of us.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on November 29, 2016, 09:43:25 PM
I am scoffing Adam, because I think the idea of functional equivalency between positions is an absurd premise. What functional equivalence is there to setting up a concentration camp in other professions? There is none, because heads of state operate at a whole different level from the rest of us.

Try to apply utility theory.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 30, 2016, 01:34:20 PM
Alberta poll (http://innovativeresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/October-2016-Alberta-Provincial-Politics.pdf)

Tory: 39%
Wildrose: 25%
NDP: 14%!
Liberal: 14%



JUNK POLL!

Here is another one, with more sane numbers: http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/embargoed-new-alberta-poll-shows-tight-race

Wildrose: 35
NDP: 31
PC: 24
Liberal: 4
AP: 3



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 01, 2016, 11:33:55 AM
Electoral  (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/804360264686637057)reform committee recommends PR & a binary referendum, Grit minority report rejects that. Remember when people (not here obviously) thought this Grit government would be different with the previous one?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 01, 2016, 11:40:43 AM
Electoral reform is one of my bread and butter issues, and I could've spent a lot of time working on submitting my opinions and proposals to the committee. But I knew in the end it would be a big waste of time.

No more sunny ways, eh?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 02, 2016, 10:35:26 AM
Scarpaleggia to Le Devoir: yes we committed to electoral reform, but we wanted a ranked ballot and no one else did. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/486178/mode-de-scrutin-la-reforme-promise-en-peril)

Carr  (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/liberal-government-reviewing-ban-on-chinese-oilsands-ownership)is looking at lifting the restrictions on Chinese oilsands investment and also said all necessary force would be used to clear out violent  (http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/pipeline-protests-will-be-met-by-police-and-military-federal-minister-tells-edmonton-business-leaders)pipeline protests.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 02, 2016, 07:03:38 PM
Scarpaleggia to Le Devoir: yes we committed to electoral reform, but we wanted a ranked ballot and no one else did. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/486178/mode-de-scrutin-la-reforme-promise-en-peril)



::)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 02, 2016, 07:08:16 PM
Scarpaleggia to Le Devoir: yes we committed to electoral reform, but we wanted a ranked ballot and no one else did. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/486178/mode-de-scrutin-la-reforme-promise-en-peril)



::)

Just curious Hatman, do you prefer FPTP or IRV?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 03, 2016, 10:52:53 AM
Trudeau insists electoral reform's still on the table. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/12/02/trudeau-insists-election-reform-still-on-table.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 04, 2016, 07:55:24 AM
The Nova Scotia government has sorta, kinda locked teachers out, starting Monday. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/nova-scotia-teachers-strike-emergency-legislation-1.3880120)

Tl;dr

Union wants roughly $170 million in changes to working conditions (e.g. hiring staff to enter data into report systems, do photocopying etc.) This is a ~14% increase in the education budget. Government is pushing budgetary restraint and balked at this. The Union implemented work to rule, and the government has responded by closing schools... but the teachers are still getting paid and are supposed to show up to work, and teach empty classrooms I guess. The Liberals will be introducing back to work legislation on Monday.

Basically, this is the latest in a long string of examples of the Atlantic provinces crappy fiscal situation.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 05, 2016, 01:34:41 AM
Scarpaleggia to Le Devoir: yes we committed to electoral reform, but we wanted a ranked ballot and no one else did. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/486178/mode-de-scrutin-la-reforme-promise-en-peril)



::)

Just curious Hatman, do you prefer FPTP or IRV?

Well, my preferable system would be ranked ballot house and a PR Senate. I would support ranked ballot over FPTP, but many who support electoral reform see it as a lateral move. I am a big proponent for ranked ballot in municipal elections, as they're not partisan.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 05, 2016, 05:48:07 PM
First Ministers dinner on Friday. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/first-ministers-meeting-health-care-1.3882597?cmp=rss)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 07, 2016, 02:07:54 PM
Alberta poll (http://innovativeresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/October-2016-Alberta-Provincial-Politics.pdf)

Tory: 39%
Wildrose: 25%
NDP: 14%!
Liberal: 14%



JUNK POLL!

Here is another one, with more sane numbers: http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/embargoed-new-alberta-poll-shows-tight-race

Wildrose: 35
NDP: 31
PC: 24
Liberal: 4
AP: 3



Another poll has similar numbers to the poll cited here.  So, given the state of polling, if the election were held today, the Alberta Liberals would win every riding ! :D

WRP: 34%
NDP: 27%
P.C: 27%
Lib: 5%
Other: 6%

http://www.insightswest.com/news/alberta-government-improves-on-energy-and-pipeline-management/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Zioneer on December 08, 2016, 01:03:19 AM
In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 08, 2016, 09:19:02 AM
In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).

He took a party on life support and revitalized them into a strong third party. If NDP gets smashed in 2019, particularly here in Quebec, then he'll be tied with Broadbent as their most successful leader and nothing else.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 08, 2016, 03:34:01 PM
In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).

He extracted a 'better balanced budget' from the Paul Martin Liberal minority government.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 08, 2016, 03:36:45 PM
PEI poll, posting it because I am happy to see Liberal support eroding there after their giant "fuck you" after going against the result of the electoral reform referendum.

Liberal: 46 (-18)
PC: 25 (+3)
Green: 22 (+13)
NDP: 7 (-1)


Ironically due to the vote split, they would probably win every seat with those numbers.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 08, 2016, 03:39:54 PM
In retrospect, since the NDP went so downhill since Jack Layton's death, what is his legacy? Keep in mind that I know some NDP history, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details, not being Canadian or an Dipper (though I am in favor of them).

He extracted a 'better balanced budget' from the Paul Martin Liberal minority government.

Also worked fairly well with Harper during the minority era. But before his death Grits really disliked him for toppling Martin and enabling the Harper decade. Hell, even after his death in some Grit quarters. They did forgive him for saying Martin's budgets caused homeless deaths though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lachi on December 08, 2016, 06:13:56 PM
PEI poll, posting it because I am happy to see Liberal support eroding there after their giant "fuck you" after going against the result of the electoral reform referendum.

Liberal: 46 (-18)
PC: 25 (+3)
Green: 22 (+13)
NDP: 7 (-1)


Ironically due to the vote split, they would probably win every seat with those numbers.
Holy sh**t, that can't be right, the Greens at 22%?!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 12, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
Feds want electoral reform legislation tabled by May. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/12/12/government-working-towards-legislation-may-much-criticism-process/90596)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Mike88 on December 12, 2016, 01:53:02 PM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: JerryArkansas on December 12, 2016, 02:38:42 PM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?
Considering the Honeymoon period was longer than normal, and the last poll has them up still by 8 points, Crashing isn't something I would call it.  A return to normal is more likely.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 12, 2016, 03:27:49 PM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?

There is the Forum Poll, what is the other poll?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Mike88 on December 12, 2016, 03:42:51 PM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?

There is the Forum Poll, what is the other poll?

EKOS - 22 November


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 13, 2016, 11:18:23 AM
Angus Reid premier approvals: Wall 58%, Pallister 50%, Clark 35%, Wynne 16%. (http://angusreid.org/premier-approval-dec2016/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 13, 2016, 11:47:14 AM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?

Maybe, but there is also pipelines, electoral reform flip flopping, etc. Bad last few weeks for the Liberals. I for one am back to my old loathing of Canada's natural  governing party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 13, 2016, 03:37:07 PM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?

There is the Forum Poll, what is the other poll?

EKOS - 22 November

Thanks. Probably this is mainly caused by a reaction to Trump's win, that Canada would do better with Trump with the Conservatives in power here.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on December 13, 2016, 04:21:48 PM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?

They would win by more than they did in 2015 - that isn't crashing like a meteor. The extreme honeymoon is coming to an end.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Mike88 on December 13, 2016, 09:02:28 PM
The latest two polls for the Federal election have the Liberals crashing down like a meteor. What happened? Did that Fidel statement fiasco hurt Trudeau?

They would win by more than they did in 2015 - that isn't crashing like a meteor. The extreme honeymoon is coming to an end.
I used the "crashing like a meteor" term in a Dan Rather way but it was quite a fall in just one month from a 20+ point lead to 10 or even single digits lead and, this is important, the Tories still don't have a leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 15, 2016, 05:39:50 PM
I have a question for those who support the pipelines but oppose the Saudi Arabia arms deal.

The explanation for the support of the pipelines despite the claims of environmental degradation and potential impact on global warming is: "if we don't sell the oil somebody else will and look at all the jobs."

On the Saudi Arabia arms deal it's also true that if we don't sell them the arms somebody else will and this deal will reportedly create about 3,000 jobs.

So, my question is: how do you explain to those 3,000 people why they shouldn't have a job due to some ultimately meaningless moral posturing?

There are slight differences in terms of selling into a Middle East that is already a powder keg and that Global Warming is more of a longer term problem and the effects of selling the oil can be partially mitigated through carbon pricing, but ultimately, given that the carbon pricing proposed by all the countries in the world if actually implemented won't get the world to the targets of carbon reduction that the scientists say is needed to stave off a not too distant world wide catastrophe, I honestly can't see any significant difference between the two.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 15, 2016, 06:25:00 PM
Well for one the pipeline is unlikely to be used to suppress Saudi dissidents.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 15, 2016, 06:27:24 PM
Well for one the pipeline is unlikely to be used to suppress Saudi dissidents.

And global warming won't lead to a lot of deaths?  So, deaths caused by government is bad but deaths caused by environmental destruction isn't?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 16, 2016, 08:03:59 PM
Well for one the pipeline is unlikely to be used to suppress Saudi dissidents.

And global warming won't lead to a lot of deaths?  So, deaths caused by government is bad but deaths caused by environmental destruction isn't?

Are murder, manslaughter and death due to negligence morally the same? That's the issue with equivocating rising sea levels and some poor Shia guy getting shot in the back of the head.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 16, 2016, 08:15:06 PM
Potential Cabinet shuffle in the New Year. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/12/16/trudeau-cabinet-shuffle_n_13682828.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 16, 2016, 08:42:06 PM
Potential Cabinet shuffle in the New Year. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/12/16/trudeau-cabinet-shuffle_n_13682828.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004)

Hmm, wonder who will be the Grits O'Connor or Bernier. My guess is Monsef.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 16, 2016, 09:47:52 PM
Well for one the pipeline is unlikely to be used to suppress Saudi dissidents.

And global warming won't lead to a lot of deaths?  So, deaths caused by government is bad but deaths caused by environmental destruction isn't?

Are murder, manslaughter and death due to negligence morally the same? That's the issue with equivocating rising sea levels and some poor Shia guy getting shot in the back of the head.

I think they are morally the same.  People who live right now in poor nations barely above sea level probably also agree with me.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 16, 2016, 09:52:39 PM
Potential Cabinet shuffle in the New Year. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/12/16/trudeau-cabinet-shuffle_n_13682828.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004)

Hmm, wonder who will be the Grits O'Connor or Bernier. My guess is Monsef.

I don't personally count the four who only hold positions that were previously ministers of state as full cabinet ministers, but yeah Monsef.

I'd say the other really poor performers are (listed by province from west to east,I hope I get the Atlantic provinces in the right geographic order):
1.Kent Hehr
2.Dominic LeBlanc
3.Laurence MacAuley
4.Judy Foote


Listening to Kent Hehr in interviews spouting the government's b.s talking points is just painful.  I'd say he's actually worse than Monsef, because at the very least she, at times, seems to acknowledge that she's made a mistake and tries to learn from it.  Of course, it's possible with her that everything she does is on the orders of the PMO.

In the case of Hehr, I don't want to be one of those who especially criticizes a Veterans Affairs Minister so that I can claim to be morally outraged over the treatment of veterans, but his performances are just embarrasing.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on December 17, 2016, 01:58:13 PM
Potential Cabinet shuffle in the New Year. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/12/16/trudeau-cabinet-shuffle_n_13682828.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004)

Hmm, wonder who will be the Grits O'Connor or Bernier. My guess is Monsef.

I don't personally count the four who only hold positions that were previously ministers of state as full cabinet ministers, but yeah Monsef.

I'd say the other really poor performers are (listed by province from west to east,I hope I get the Atlantic provinces in the right geographic order):
1.Kent Hehr
2.Dominic LeBlanc
3.Laurence MacAuley
4.Judy Foote


Listening to Kent Hehr in interviews spouting the government's b.s talking points is just painful.  I'd say he's actually worse than Monsef, because at the very least she, at times, seems to acknowledge that she's made a mistake and tries to learn from it.  Of course, it's possible with her that everything she does is on the orders of the PMO.

In the case of Hehr, I don't want to be one of those who especially criticizes a Veterans Affairs Minister so that I can claim to be morally outraged over the treatment of veterans, but his performances are just embarrasing.

Hehr and Trudeau have a bit of a rapport, and get along well, so I doubt he'll be sacked right now. He might get a warning, and perhaps next reshuffle if he continues to preform poorly, but not now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 17, 2016, 02:05:13 PM
LeBlanc won't be sacked unless there's a meltdown in his department. They've been close friends since childhood.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 17, 2016, 07:55:39 PM
LeBlanc won't be sacked unless there's a meltdown in his department. They've been close friends since childhood.

Maybe he'd take a major diplomatic posting if one is available.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 28, 2016, 10:22:21 AM
Electricity next on the government's energy agenda. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-28/trudeau-s-energy-boss-turns-to-electricity-after-oil-decisions)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 01, 2017, 11:49:22 AM
NBNDP leader Dominic Cardy quits after being fragged by the left. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/815596707706716161)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 01, 2017, 03:12:02 PM
NBNDP leader Dominic Cardy quits after being fragged by the hard left. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/815596707706716161)

Kind of surprised NBNDP even has a hard left. New Brunswick has got to be the least hospitable province for any sort of radical left, except maybe PEI. It has no big cities, no tradition of mining/farmer activism, and no arch-reactionary tradition to antagonize the left.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 01, 2017, 03:42:08 PM
Maybe I should've just said left. He even quit the party!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 01, 2017, 03:52:11 PM
Maybe I should've just said left. He even quit the party!

Oh, I'm not quibbling with how you characterized it. I just mean I'm surprised their left had much of a presence at all in NB. I guess David Coon will be the left's standard bearer next time.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on January 02, 2017, 04:13:21 AM
NBNDP leader Dominic Cardy quits after being fragged by the hard left. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/815596707706716161)

Kind of surprised NBNDP even has a hard left. New Brunswick has got to be the least hospitable province for any sort of radical left, except maybe PEI. It has no big cities, no tradition of mining/farmer activism, and no arch-reactionary tradition to antagonize the left.

Well, if you read correctly, there is nothing about the "hard left".

It's just annoying unions who refused a leader who wasn't doing their bidding 100% of time.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 02, 2017, 02:44:43 PM
To be honest, I'm rather disappointed in the NDP campaign there. Yes, they won a moral victory of "LARGEST VOTE TOTAL EVARR!!!!" but they failed to win a seat. And what the  was Cardy doing running in Fredericton West instead of Fredericton South or Saint John Harbour? You gotta win a seat to keep momentum going. There's a reason why the Greens are polling third in NB.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 02, 2017, 05:01:36 PM
NBNDP leader Dominic Cardy quits after being fragged by the left. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/815596707706716161)

In his open letter (or Facebook post) he complains about and says part of the reason he quit the NDP was his unhappiness that in being a member of the New Brunswick NDP he also had to be a member of the Federal NDP whether he wanted to be or not.

I was especially pleased to read that from him.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 03, 2017, 11:55:17 AM
and now there are rumours he may join the PCs. Good riddance. I guess we can't trust moderate New Democrats? From the looks of it, he was trying to hijack the NDP as his own personal political vehicle, and almost succeeded because the party lacked any organization.

If he was upset by a minor group of vocal socialists or trade unionists or something, he could've as leader used his power to over rule them. I'm sure he would've had the backing of the majority of the membership, and could've done it using democratic means.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 03, 2017, 03:16:03 PM
and now there are rumours he may join the PCs. Good riddance. I guess we can't trust moderate New Democrats? From the looks of it, he was trying to hijack the NDP as his own personal political vehicle, and almost succeeded because the party lacked any organization.

If he was upset by a minor group of vocal socialists or trade unionists or something, he could've as leader used his power to over rule them. I'm sure he would've had the backing of the majority of the membership, and could've done it using democratic means.

1.I don't think he was trying to hijack anything, he was up front when he first ran for the leadership that he regarded himself as a centrist 'third way' New Democrat. 

2.He commented in his open letter or Facebook comment.  I could get the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of "I could spend all my time fighting these people and I'm sure I would defeat them, but that would leave me no time to prepare for the next election."


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 04, 2017, 10:08:51 AM


2.He commented in his open letter or Facebook comment.  I could get the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of "I could spend all my time fighting these people and I'm sure I would defeat them, but that would leave me no time to prepare for the next election."

Does he not realize that he alone does not have to do everything? This is why politicos have teams.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 04, 2017, 03:17:55 PM


2.He commented in his open letter or Facebook comment.  I could get the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of "I could spend all my time fighting these people and I'm sure I would defeat them, but that would leave me no time to prepare for the next election."

Does he not realize that he alone does not have to do everything? This is why politicos have teams.

Yes, he realizes that, I wrote it wasn't an exact quote, but I was carelessly using the 'plural I' (Is that even a thing?)  "Royal we...."

This is the exact quote from that section:
"Today I have the resources to win a leadership fight, as I have won every fight before, or to win an electoral breakthrough. I cannot do both"


This is his full post on Facebook:

January 1, 2017

Fellow New Brunswickers,
When I ran for leader of the New Brunswick New Democratic Party I challenged my party to become genuinely progressive. To break the network of patronage and bailouts that has undermined our province. To make our province fair, free, and wealthy.

The NDP we built since 2011 attracted lifetime New Democrats, reform-minded Liberals and Conservatives, and others who had never been inspired to run for office. We spoke hard truths: Wasteful government spending threatens the poor and social programs we need just as much as reckless tax cuts. Giving handouts to companies while cutting education is not economic development, it’s social vandalism. We need a strong government, not a big government.

We worked across party lines and got NDP authored bills passed into law – a Canadian first for a party with no seats. With a team of young volunteers and dedicated staff we cleaned up a party massively in debt, chronically disorganized, and deeply undemocratic in its operations. Today the NDP is debt free, the most organized provincial party, and runs according to clear rules.

I am so proud of the work my team accomplished. We ran a team of outstanding candidates and ran on a platform widely acknowledged as the best in 2014. We won more votes than any NDP campaign in New Brunswick’s history. We earned equal billing with the Liberals and PCs. We spooked the Liberals to the point they ran ads against us: I’ll take that as a compliment! We did it all on a shoestring budget, showing we were serious about being good stewards of people’s money. But we could not break the two-party cycle.

Since the disappointment of 2014 I have been honoured to win a leadership review at convention and votes of confidence at Provincial Council meetings. However, some New Democrats unfortunately believe change and openness have had their time. They want to return to an old NDP of true believers, ideological litmus tests and moral victories.

Some of these people, with support from certain leaders of the province’s largest public sector union, have tried to bend and break the rules, abusing new members and trying to undermine the democratic will of the party. They have served notice that, no matter how many votes they lose, they will continue to organize. Not to win elections, but to fight endless internal battles.

As leader, this leaves me with a difficult choice: Reward bad behaviour and adopt a protest platform or marshal the team to win yet another vote. The first choice was never an option. I will not be part of offering our province another set of bad, discredited, ideas. The second choice would exact a toll on party volunteers and staff who have been subjected, from 2011, to unacceptable abuse.

Today I have the resources to win a leadership fight, as I have won every fight before, or to win an electoral breakthrough. I cannot do both.

Today the NDP faces a rerun of 2014. Limited time and energy is being wasted on infighting before the election. That contributed to our loss in 2014 as it will in 2018. Those same destructive forces continue their sterile battle, ignoring the will of the party they claim to champion, using language from the 1930s and policies from the 1970s. There is nothing progressive about this behaviour.

The NDP is a one-stop shop. When you join the provincial NDP you join the federal NDP, whether you like it or not. Recently the federal NDP abandoned its proud history of internationalism, declaring itself a pacifist party. In a world where liberal democratic values are under threat from religious and political extremism and Canada confronts challenges from aggressive authoritarian regimes pacifism is a dangerous, extreme, and immoral position. The federal NDP’s statement that the conflict in Syria is “not our fight” goes against everything I believe: we live on a small planet with a responsibility to look after each other.

I cannot lead a party where a tiny minority of well-connected members refuse to accept the democratic will of the membership. I cannot continue as a member of a party that has abandoned internationalism. Therefore, after a Christmas of reflection with family and friends, I am resigning as leader and as a member of the New Brunswick NDP, effective January 1, 2017.

I grew up in New Brunswick. I love this province. Being leader of this party, having the chance to meet people in every corner of the province, to share their struggles and successes, has been the best experience of my life. We have the people we need to succeed; we still need a political vehicle to drive us where we need to go. I had hoped the NDP was that vehicle and, alongside many talented and caring people, I did my best to build it.

I have always been clear that parties are less important than ideas. I am stepping away from the NDP but I remain a New Brunswicker who loves this province. I look forward to fighting for my team’s ideals in new ways. Thank you to the team who worked alongside me. Thank you to the tens of thousands of New Brunswickers who voted for our vision of a better province.
We did our best. Thank you for the chance to serve,

Dominic Cardy

– 30 –
For further information, contact: Kelly Lamrock
(506) 476-3807
info@nbndp.ca

https://www.facebook.com/dominic.cardy/posts/10157927890850545


There were 117 comments

That's more than voted NDP in New Brunswick in their last provincial election!!!! :D (That's not true at all, sorry.)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 04, 2017, 06:21:15 PM
Meh. Whatever. He doesn't strike me as being very committed. Third wayism has been discredited anyways. I'm not suggesting the NDP make a hard left in the province, but there are some issues it can get behind, like fracking for example. Helped get the Greens elected a seat.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 04, 2017, 09:19:50 PM
NBNDP leader Dominic Cardy quits after being fragged by the hard left. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/815596707706716161)

Kind of surprised NBNDP even has a hard left. New Brunswick has got to be the least hospitable province for any sort of radical left, except maybe PEI. It has no big cities, no tradition of mining/farmer activism, and no arch-reactionary tradition to antagonize the left.

Well, if you read correctly, there is nothing about the "hard left".

It's just annoying unions who refused a leader who wasn't doing their bidding 100% of time.

Ok, point still stands. Factional battles are something relevant parties should do :P The NB NDP should all be singing the chorus to Living on a Prayer, not engaging in factional battles.

Whoa, we're half way there
Whoa, livin' on a prayer
Take my hand and we'll make it - I swear
Whoa, livin' on a prayer

Meh. Whatever. He doesn't strike me as being very committed. Third wayism has been discredited anyways. I'm not suggesting the NDP make a hard left in the province, but there are some issues it can get behind, like fracking for example. Helped get the Greens elected a seat.

What are your thoughts on people who say the Tories (or GOP for that matter) have to moderate to ever stand a chance against Trudeau? There's a refrain from a certain sort of progressive that the right must always moderate and the left lost because they were in the mushy middle. Not asking this as a gotcha question. Just curious.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 05, 2017, 12:49:06 PM
NBNDP leader Dominic Cardy quits after being fragged by the hard left. (https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/815596707706716161)

Kind of surprised NBNDP even has a hard left. New Brunswick has got to be the least hospitable province for any sort of radical left, except maybe PEI. It has no big cities, no tradition of mining/farmer activism, and no arch-reactionary tradition to antagonize the left.

Well, if you read correctly, there is nothing about the "hard left".

It's just annoying unions who refused a leader who wasn't doing their bidding 100% of time.

Ok, point still stands. Factional battles are something relevant parties should do :P The NB NDP should all be singing the chorus to Living on a Prayer, not engaging in factional battles.

Whoa, we're half way there
Whoa, livin' on a prayer
Take my hand and we'll make it - I swear
Whoa, livin' on a prayer

Meh. Whatever. He doesn't strike me as being very committed. Third wayism has been discredited anyways. I'm not suggesting the NDP make a hard left in the province, but there are some issues it can get behind, like fracking for example. Helped get the Greens elected a seat.

What are your thoughts on people who say the Tories (or GOP for that matter) have to moderate to ever stand a chance against Trudeau? There's a refrain from a certain sort of progressive that the right must always moderate and the left lost because they were in the mushy middle. Not asking this as a gotcha question. Just curious.

I used to think that the left had to moderate in order to get elected, but I think there is a real appetite for a more populist left out there, that appeals to people across the spectrum (look at Bernie Sanders). If the NDP focused on issues that really resonated with people, and ran a populist campaign on those issues, they would attract a lot of support. Remember, most people are not that ideological.

As for the Tories, it depends on the circumstance of course. Mike Harris was on the far right of the Tories, but got elected twice in Ontario. It was a visceral reaction to the previous government which I shall not name ;) Tim Hudak, who also ran a far right campaign failed though. But then again, so did John Tory whose campaign was more centrist. I think I'd give the same advice to conservatives as I would for the NDP. Run on a populist campaign that speaks to voters concerns. You don't need to go down the route of Kellie Leitch or Donald Trump- in fact I would say don't touch social issues at all (I'd suggest the same for the NDP, actually) - but do focus on the economy, and focus on taxes. The voters in the 905 eat that kind of thing up, but harping on social issues will alienate them. I think Mike Harris did this fairly effectively, but Hudak didn't. John Tory brought up social issues too much (even though it wasn't from a far right position) and scared off a lot of small-c conservatives as a result.

I hope that answers your question :)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Mike88 on January 05, 2017, 05:53:00 PM
Found on Facebook this report about the government fiscal projections:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/01/04/buried-government-report-reveals-looming-fiscal-crisis

First, i don't know how accurate the "Ottawa Sun" is, or if it is even accurate, but how bad can this government report be to the Libs and for Trudeau policies?



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 06, 2017, 12:00:46 AM
Found on Facebook this report about the government fiscal projections:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/01/04/buried-government-report-reveals-looming-fiscal-crisis

First, i don't know how accurate the "Ottawa Sun" is, or if it is even accurate, but how bad can this government report be to the Libs and for Trudeau policies?



1.The debt/GDP ratio rising to 30.4% by 2021 is, I think, genuinely concerning, though not inherently unstable by itself.  (By 2021 we'd have a better idea of the expected rate out increase out to say 2030 and then be in a better position to judge.) However, it does further point to how ideal it would be to have the Liberals explain how they'll get the budget back into balance.

2.The deficit projections out to 2055 are absurd.  Nobody can predict essentially 40 years into the future with any accuracy. (Other than maybe Nostradamus, but he's dead.)

3.From skimming over the report that is linked to in the article, it reads to me like the main purpose of the report was to justify a fairly massive increase in the level of immigration.

An alternate possibility to increasing immigration is that the government reverses course on its decision to revoke the increase in the retirement age where they put it back to 65 from the 67 it was going to be raised to. To stop the projected deficit increases to, say 2030, they'd probably have to consider increasing the retirement age to around 70.  

Of course, by retirement age, I'm referring to the age when people can collect government pension benefits and the like, and, of course, I'm referring to this age being raised on people who are presently below a certain age, like 40 or 50.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 06, 2017, 07:42:18 AM
Cabinet  (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/01/06/-paul-wells.html)shuffle incoming later this month, quite likely Freeland moves to Foreign Affairs.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on January 06, 2017, 04:09:36 PM
Cabinet  (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/01/06/-paul-wells.html)shuffle incoming later this month, quite likely Freeland moves to Foreign Affairs.

I wonder if she'll still be on Bill Maher. :D


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 06, 2017, 11:11:11 PM
ing-fiscal-crisis

First, i don't know how accurate the "Ottawa Sun" is, or if it is even accurate


LOL! It's not. It's tabloid trash.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 07, 2017, 09:38:02 AM
Justin's top advisors have been meeting with Trump's for months and there seems to be some progress on trade. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/exclusive-top-trudeau-advisers-have-high-level-meetings-with-trump-officials-1.3230229)

More  (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/01/07/dion-tops-shuffle-watch-list/)on the shuffle that may be in the late spring: Dion might lose his current portfolio, Mihychuk is definitely losing hers, Freeland may not get Foreign Affairs due to Trumpian incompability. Chagger could lose Small Business. Possible Bennett and/or McCallum retire.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 08, 2017, 07:57:06 AM
Found on Facebook this report about the government fiscal projections:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/01/04/buried-government-report-reveals-looming-fiscal-crisis

First, i don't know how accurate the "Ottawa Sun" is, or if it is even accurate, but how bad can this government report be to the Libs and for Trudeau policies?


As for the report itself, it's somewhat alarming, but the projections are so far out that they are near useless. Small changes in assumptions could have huge effects on the results down the line. Essentially, Trudeau's fiscal policies are limiting future governments' flexibility but the fed's fiscal house is in ok shape.

The bigger problem in Canada is the provincial governments, many of which face aging populations and have limited abilities to raise new revenue or make cuts to spending.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 09, 2017, 02:34:32 PM
So  (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pmo-held-talks-with-trump-team-to-avert-trade-war/article33544875/)far so good in WH relations, plus Mulroney & Burney are helping out.

Shuffle tomorrow. (https://twitter.com/CFRAOttawa/status/818556092141699073)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DavidB. on January 10, 2017, 11:42:24 PM
Freeland to Foreign Affairs, Ahmed Hussen to Immigration/Refugees/Integration. Champagne to succeed Freeland on International Trade.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: justfollowingtheelections on January 13, 2017, 12:04:52 AM
Jimmy Dore's take on Trudeau lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLER04yXGdk


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 13, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Huh. And the Young Turks were so excited when Trudeau won too. :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on January 14, 2017, 07:16:15 PM
Huh. And the Young Turks were so excited when Trudeau won too. :P

Jimmy Dore definitely doesn't speak for TYT as a whole.

And he's 50 but looks 62.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 15, 2017, 06:54:04 PM
Joe  (https://twitter.com/joeoliver1/status/820780273755455488)Oliver has lost the York Centre PC nomination.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 15, 2017, 07:29:41 PM
Joe  (https://twitter.com/joeoliver1/status/820780273755455488)Oliver has lost the York Centre PC nomination. So far Calandra's the only former MP to secure a PC nomination.

Didn't Daryl Kramp win his nomination? Or am I misremembering that?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 15, 2017, 08:05:41 PM
Joe  (https://twitter.com/joeoliver1/status/820780273755455488)Oliver has lost the York Centre PC nomination. So far Calandra's the only former MP to secure a PC nomination.

Didn't Daryl Kramp win his nomination? Or am I misremembering that?

Oh yeah. Still Truppe and Gill left.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on January 15, 2017, 10:30:54 PM
Joe  (https://twitter.com/joeoliver1/status/820780273755455488)Oliver has lost the York Centre PC nomination.

The guy he lost to is probably 50 years younger than him.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 16, 2017, 03:16:12 PM
VCDS Norman relieved for leaking highly classified info, destination unclear. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-ranked-soldier-in-canadian-armed-forces-relieved-of-duty/article33632281/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=Referrer:+Social+Network+/+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links)

KoK (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/01/16/upstart-roman-baber-trounces-joe-oliver-in-ontario-pc-battle.html): He's 36, but who's counting? :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 17, 2017, 01:57:28 PM
Free trade talks with China start next month. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/ottawa-weeks-away-from-starting-free-trade-talks-with-china/article33646385/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ag on January 17, 2017, 09:35:40 PM
Free trade talks with China start next month. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/ottawa-weeks-away-from-starting-free-trade-talks-with-china/article33646385/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe)

Great news!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on January 18, 2017, 03:30:52 AM
Free trade talks with China start next month. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/ottawa-weeks-away-from-starting-free-trade-talks-with-china/article33646385/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe)

Madness.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Intell on January 18, 2017, 03:58:16 AM
Free trade talks with China start next month. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/politics/ottawa-weeks-away-from-starting-free-trade-talks-with-china/article33646385/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe)

Yuhh! God Awful, but he's an awful neoliberal so what can you can expect.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 18, 2017, 08:02:11 AM
Central to NAFTA renegotiation: rules of origin and independent dispute tribunals. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-given-advance-notice-of-trumps-nafta-demands/article33653320/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 19, 2017, 05:54:58 PM
Relationship with Trump is going OK, but we're upping defence spending and might be cancelling the Africa mission as goodwill gestures. (http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-in-what-will-be-a-bumpy-ride-trudeau-has-to-appease-trump-to-avoid-falling-off-trade-wagon)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 24, 2017, 05:41:23 PM
Keystone has been approved and Justin will be meeting Trump soon.

Democracy survey results have just been released, conclusions further my suspicion that they're planning their own FEA & will call that a day on "reform." (https://www.canada.ca/en/campaign/electoral-reform/learn-about-canadian-federal-electoral-reform/mydemocracyca-online-digital-consultation-engagement-platform.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 24, 2017, 10:49:18 PM
Kevin O'Leary is now the landslide frontrunner: http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/5c0ebf22-45a0-488e-929f-f8579ccbdd67FED_Conservative_Leadership_(012217).pdf


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 25, 2017, 06:35:33 PM
I know it's impossible to poll leadership elections but... this is actually happening, isn't it?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 25, 2017, 11:26:18 PM
On the bright side, at least Kellie Leitch has crashed back to joke status. We've dodged a bullet - for now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 26, 2017, 02:27:20 PM
Internal trade deal reached.
 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/internal-trade-deal-to-be-revealed-soon-set-to-take-effect-july-1/article33767611/)
Polling (http://www.nanosresearch.com/tickers/PDF/20170120%20Political%20Package%20Eng.pdf): Nanos has E-Day numbers & Forum  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/4c699bf4-3920-4f99-b4da-15ccff9003f8FED_Horserace_News_Release%20(012217).pdf)42/36/12, Grits +5 in BC, +21 here & +2 in ON.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on January 26, 2017, 05:27:10 PM
Internal trade deal reached.
 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/internal-trade-deal-to-be-revealed-soon-set-to-take-effect-july-1/article33767611/)
Polling (http://www.nanosresearch.com/tickers/PDF/20170120%20Political%20Package%20Eng.pdf): Nanos has E-Day numbers & Forum  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/4c699bf4-3920-4f99-b4da-15ccff9003f8FED_Horserace_News_Release%20(012217).pdf)42/36/12, Grits +5 in BC, +21 here & +2 in ON.

I somehow doubt a poll which has Lib+2 in Ontario and NDP on 13% in Quebec.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 26, 2017, 07:21:59 PM
Don Martin predicts electoral reform will be formally interred within 2 weeks. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-martin-blog/don-martin-why-the-liberals-electoral-reform-promise-will-be-broken-1.3258794)

Wynne will veto Tory's plan for DVP/Gardiner tolls. (https://twitter.com/spaikin/status/824772209940058112)

Whoa: Brian Jean would be willing to step aside as Wildrose leader & run for leader of a hypothetical CPA *this summer*. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/wildrose-leader-brian-jean-willing-to-step-down-to-head-united-conservative-party-1.3954132)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 27, 2017, 12:49:24 AM
Ah, so the Liberal honeymoon has finally ended. Most of their loss has been to the Conservatives. They'll need to make real accomplishments (the internal trade deal helps, maybe they should start Harper-style national propaganda campaign), and hope O'Leary wins the CPC leadership. They probably already have hours of attack ad footage ready to air.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 27, 2017, 09:23:24 AM
Justin will open up his fundraisers. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-cash-for-access-fundraisers-changes/article33788333/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lachi on January 27, 2017, 09:54:58 PM
Ah, so the Liberal honeymoon has finally ended. Most of their loss has been to the Conservatives. They'll need to make real accomplishments (the internal trade deal helps, maybe they should start Harper-style national propaganda campaign), and hope O'Leary wins the CPC leadership. They probably already have hours of attack ad footage ready to air.
Anything harper-style would be suicide for the Conservatives.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on January 27, 2017, 10:29:15 PM
Ah, so the Liberal honeymoon has finally ended. Most of their loss has been to the Conservatives. They'll need to make real accomplishments (the internal trade deal helps, maybe they should start Harper-style national propaganda campaign), and hope O'Leary wins the CPC leadership. They probably already have hours of attack ad footage ready to air.
I believe a recent poll showed O'Leary is the most electable candidate, while Bernier and Leitch did poorly.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 28, 2017, 06:58:13 AM
Ah, so the Liberal honeymoon has finally ended. Most of their loss has been to the Conservatives. They'll need to make real accomplishments (the internal trade deal helps, maybe they should start Harper-style national propaganda campaign), and hope O'Leary wins the CPC leadership. They probably already have hours of attack ad footage ready to air.
I believe a recent poll showed O'Leary is the most electable candidate, while Bernier and Leitch did poorly.

Most electable or highest name recognition? A lot of those polls are effectively the latter.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on January 28, 2017, 12:30:37 PM
Ah, so the Liberal honeymoon has finally ended. Most of their loss has been to the Conservatives. They'll need to make real accomplishments (the internal trade deal helps, maybe they should start Harper-style national propaganda campaign), and hope O'Leary wins the CPC leadership. They probably already have hours of attack ad footage ready to air.
I believe a recent poll showed O'Leary is the most electable candidate, while Bernier and Leitch did poorly.
Most electable or highest name recognition? A lot of those polls are effectively the latter.
This is what I'm referring to. http://globalnews.ca/news/3207501/kevin-oleary-justin-trudeau-conservative-leadership-race-poll/?sf52910041=1

It could be just name recognization, but 37% for O'Leary and 26% for Leitch is a big difference.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 31, 2017, 09:19:27 AM
Justin will meet Trump soon, perhaps as early as this week. (https://twitter.com/NatashaFatah/status/826427213067202561)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 31, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
Ah, so the Liberal honeymoon has finally ended. Most of their loss has been to the Conservatives. They'll need to make real accomplishments (the internal trade deal helps, maybe they should start Harper-style national propaganda campaign), and hope O'Leary wins the CPC leadership. They probably already have hours of attack ad footage ready to air.
I believe a recent poll showed O'Leary is the most electable candidate, while Bernier and Leitch did poorly.
Most electable or highest name recognition? A lot of those polls are effectively the latter.
This is what I'm referring to. http://globalnews.ca/news/3207501/kevin-oleary-justin-trudeau-conservative-leadership-race-poll/?sf52910041=1

It could be just name recognization, but 37% for O'Leary and 26% for Leitch is a big difference.
It's a yuuge difference. It's the difference between being on the cusp of government and facing an existential crisis.

That said, O'Leary has tied himself to something he has absolutely no control over. The Liberals will be able to run not just against O'Leary's douchey behaviour, but against three years of the Trump Administration (assuming by then the Trump Administration hasn't already ended or is so weakened they are no longer fearful of bashing him).

Very good to see Kellie Leitch failing in both the leadership race and the general election poll.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 31, 2017, 06:07:47 PM
https://twitter.com/glen_mcgregor/status/826558392923721729

Katie Purchase has written to Fox News demanding the take down the tweet that is still up, that says the Moroccan Muslim shot the mosque. I'm proud of the government's response and they should be ready to sue Fox News pants off if they don't comply.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 01, 2017, 01:31:03 PM
ELECTORAL "REFORM" IS DEAD! (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/826848771946532875)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on February 01, 2017, 02:55:35 PM
ELECTORAL "REFORM" IS DEAD! (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/826848771946532875)
Great news. Canada survives for a few more years, at least.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 01, 2017, 05:39:39 PM
ELECTORAL "REFORM" IS DEAD! (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/826848771946532875)

Eh, can't even be bothered to make a snarky remark about Trudeau on this one. Meh.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on February 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM
Goddamit Bieber.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 01, 2017, 05:47:59 PM
ELECTORAL "REFORM" IS DEAD! (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/826848771946532875)
Great news. Canada survives for a few more years, at least.

U.S democracy doesn't though with the election of Trump.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on February 08, 2017, 11:46:48 PM
In a Longueuil Internet media, NDP Pierre Nantel answered he would be interested in switching to provincial politics. The writer says it would be for the PQ and replacing Martine Ouellet in Vachon could be a possibility. There is no quote from the MP talking about party though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 09, 2017, 11:42:47 AM
Justin will meet Trump in DC on Monday. (https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/829731606021672961)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 11, 2017, 07:10:37 AM
Here are some interesting charts from MacLean's about Quebec, ROC and the USA's attitudes towards civil liberties.

()

()

ROC is pretty well in line with the USA, with the exception of banning headscarfs. Quebec is the outlier of course.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on February 11, 2017, 07:59:24 AM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 11, 2017, 09:09:44 AM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.

Quite so, although it wold confirm the biases of our instinctive Quebec bashers :P

The mosque monitoring and headscarf bans are particularly worrying. How on earth can we claim to be 'progressive' and want to monitor minority religions and tell them what to wear?!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on February 11, 2017, 11:05:11 AM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.

Quite so, although it wold confirm the biases of our instinctive Quebec bashers :P

The mosque monitoring and headscarf bans are particularly worrying. How on earth can we claim to be 'progressive' and want to monitor minority religions and tell them what to wear?!
Those are extremely encouraging statistics for me. Perhaps Canada is not gone just yet.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on February 11, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.

Quite so, although it wold confirm the biases of our instinctive Quebec bashers :P

The mosque monitoring and headscarf bans are particularly worrying. How on earth can we claim to be 'progressive' and want to monitor minority religions and tell them what to wear?!

Tbh I think the regions most ripe for seizure by the populist right is the Atlantic provinces imo.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on February 11, 2017, 03:46:08 PM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.

Quite so, although it wold confirm the biases of our instinctive Quebec bashers :P

The mosque monitoring and headscarf bans are particularly worrying. How on earth can we claim to be 'progressive' and want to monitor minority religions and tell them what to wear?!

Calling the average Quebecois "progressive" is most likely the mistake.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lord Halifax on February 11, 2017, 05:29:44 PM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.

Quite so, although it wold confirm the biases of our instinctive Quebec bashers :P

The mosque monitoring and headscarf bans are particularly worrying. How on earth can we claim to be 'progressive' and want to monitor minority religions and tell them what to wear?!

Calling the average Quebecois "progressive" is most likely the mistake.

Left populist?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on February 11, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.

Quite so, although it wold confirm the biases of our instinctive Quebec bashers :P

The mosque monitoring and headscarf bans are particularly worrying. How on earth can we claim to be 'progressive' and want to monitor minority religions and tell them what to wear?!

Tbh I think the regions most ripe for seizure by the populist right is the Atlantic provinces imo.
Didn't that already happen in Toronto though :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on February 11, 2017, 06:04:29 PM
About a year ago in this thread, I asked what Trudeau and his party campaigned on, what they wanted to accomplish, what the Canadian people were demanding.

What is the status of it all now?

(I vaguely remember some form of electoral reform that people thought was shaky even then, some infrastructure/environmental work with a small price-tag, a small budget deficit being reduced, and something about First/Native Americans)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 11, 2017, 06:59:44 PM
About a year ago in this thread, I asked what Trudeau and his party campaigned on, what they wanted to accomplish, what the Canadian people were demanding.

What is the status of it all now?

(I vaguely remember some form of electoral reform that people thought was shaky even then, some infrastructure/environmental work with a small price-tag, a small budget deficit being reduced, and something about First/Native Americans)

TrudeauMeter  (https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/)is your friend. Deficits are gargantuan for the foreseeable future, Harper's GHG targets have been adopted and a federal carbon tax is coming. Aboriginal issues - inquiry into missing & murdered women (MMIW) held but otherwise not a yuge change from Harper, despite a better tone. Electoral reform is dead.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on February 11, 2017, 08:15:37 PM
About a year ago in this thread, I asked what Trudeau and his party campaigned on, what they wanted to accomplish, what the Canadian people were demanding.

What is the status of it all now?

(I vaguely remember some form of electoral reform that people thought was shaky even then, some infrastructure/environmental work with a small price-tag, a small budget deficit being reduced, and something about First/Native Americans)

TrudeauMeter  (https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/)is your friend. Deficits are gargantuan for the foreseeable future, Harper's GHG targets have been adopted and a federal carbon tax is coming. Aboriginal issues - inquiry into missing & murdered women (MMIW) held but otherwise not a yuge change from Harper, despite a better tone. Electoral reform is dead.

Thanks.

Though are those items I listed the "big promises"? Did I miss any "big promises"?
(223 is a lot to scroll through :P )


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 12, 2017, 06:51:40 AM
That would be a great chart to stick in instinctive America bashers' faces.

Quite so, although it wold confirm the biases of our instinctive Quebec bashers :P

The mosque monitoring and headscarf bans are particularly worrying. How on earth can we claim to be 'progressive' and want to monitor minority religions and tell them what to wear?!

Tbh I think the regions most ripe for seizure by the populist right is the Atlantic provinces imo.

Interesting take. Could you elaborate? I'm a bit skeptical given the total flop by right wing populists in the past here.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 12, 2017, 09:00:24 AM
Good for Ambrose. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2017/02/12/conservatives-offer-support-to-trudeau-ahead-of-meeting-with-trump-3/#.WKBqHzsrKUl)

I  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2662/in-toronto-liberals-and-progressive-conservatives-tied/)love how Forum tries to spin a 416 tie as good news for Wynne. Last poll that had similar 416 # also had Brown +19 provincewide. :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 14, 2017, 06:09:08 AM
I  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2662/in-toronto-liberals-and-progressive-conservatives-tied/)love how Forum tries to spin a 416 tie as good news for Wynne. Last poll that had similar 416 # also had Brown +19 provincewide. :P

Why are pollsters so foolish when it comes to electoral commentary? Hatman is literally the only person I've heard who both works for a polling firm and understands political geography well.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 14, 2017, 06:24:06 AM
About a year ago in this thread, I asked what Trudeau and his party campaigned on, what they wanted to accomplish, what the Canadian people were demanding.

What is the status of it all now?

(I vaguely remember some form of electoral reform that people thought was shaky even then, some infrastructure/environmental work with a small price-tag, a small budget deficit being reduced, and something about First/Native Americans)

TrudeauMeter  (https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/)is your friend. Deficits are gargantuan for the foreseeable future, Harper's GHG targets have been adopted and a federal carbon tax is coming. Aboriginal issues - inquiry into missing & murdered women (MMIW) held but otherwise not a yuge change from Harper, despite a better tone. Electoral reform is dead.

Thanks.

Though are those items I listed the "big promises"? Did I miss any "big promises"?
(223 is a lot to scroll through :P )

Kept the promise to make the Senate independent by forming an independent commission to choose the people to appoint.

Kept the promise on the (upper) middle class tax cut.

Brought in a new expanded child benefit that rolled some of the existing benefits into this one and eliminated others.  According to the Liberals, 90% of families will receive higher benefits.

Did away with the muzzle on government scientists and brought back the long form census.

Approved the Kinder Morgan Pipeline.

Also brought in a new law on assisted death after being mandated by the Supreme Court.

Prime Minister Trudeau has broken some promises and breaking the promise on electoral reform was pretty brazen, but overall I'd say this government is a major improvement in policy and tone and has significantly reduced the harshness and hyper partisanship from the Harper Conservative government. Not only is there no noxious person in the cabinet like Pierre Polievre but, in general, I'd say that the Liberal cabinet ministers are far more intelligent than the previous Conservatives.  

The overwhelmingly conservative mainstream Canadian media (at least in terms of the major editorials) has had to whine, for instance, that Justin Trudeau's line at some foreign event of "Canada is back" was nothing more than a boast of "The Liberals are back in power" when what Trudeau clearly meant was that Canada was going to engage in such things as climate change commitments and assisting the United Nations rather than taking disparaging shots at it after not getting a seat back on the Security Counsel.

Also, there will almost certainly not going to be a federal carbon tax as 8 of the 10 provinces and the three  territories already have or will have their own systems in place (either a carbon tax or cap and trade.)  We'll see what happens if Saskatchewan and/or Manitoba hold out (unless the Conservatives win the 2019 election), but I can't imagine whoever the Premiers of those provinces are by then would want to face the wrath of the other Premiers by forcing a national carbon tax.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 14, 2017, 02:26:43 PM
I  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2662/in-toronto-liberals-and-progressive-conservatives-tied/)love how Forum tries to spin a 416 tie as good news for Wynne. Last poll that had similar 416 # also had Brown +19 provincewide. :P

Why are pollsters so foolish when it comes to electoral commentary? Hatman is literally the only person I've heard who both works for a polling firm and understands political geography well.

Thanks :)

But a lot of professional pundits don't know anything about political geography, so it's par for the course.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 14, 2017, 05:22:55 PM
I  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2662/in-toronto-liberals-and-progressive-conservatives-tied/)love how Forum tries to spin a 416 tie as good news for Wynne. Last poll that had similar 416 # also had Brown +19 provincewide. :P

Why are pollsters so foolish when it comes to electoral commentary? Hatman is literally the only person I've heard who both works for a polling firm and understands political geography well.

Thanks :)

But a lot of professional pundits don't know anything about political geography, so it's par for the course.

Yes, that was odd reporting by Forum, something like "If the Conservatives want to form a majority government they need to be doing better than a tie in the city of Toronto."

How much can the Tories lose in the Toronto and still form a majority government?  Obviously the numbers can't be calculated in isolation, but my guess would be around by around 10%


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 15, 2017, 05:56:21 AM
The McNeil government is imposing a contract on Nova Scotia Teachers Union.  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/teachers-union-legislation-contract-bill-75-karen-casey-1.3983450) The union has been working to rule but has been threatening to strike if the contract is imposed. An interesting wrinkle in this case is the fight between the union leadership and membership, which has voted down leadership recommended deals three times.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 15, 2017, 10:38:00 AM
I  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2662/in-toronto-liberals-and-progressive-conservatives-tied/)love how Forum tries to spin a 416 tie as good news for Wynne. Last poll that had similar 416 # also had Brown +19 provincewide. :P

Why are pollsters so foolish when it comes to electoral commentary? Hatman is literally the only person I've heard who both works for a polling firm and understands political geography well.

Thanks :)

But a lot of professional pundits don't know anything about political geography, so it's par for the course.

Yes, that was odd reporting by Forum, something like "If the Conservatives want to form a majority government they need to be doing better than a tie in the city of Toronto."

How much can the Tories lose in the Toronto and still form a majority government?  Obviously the numbers can't be calculated in isolation, but my guess would be around by around 10%

We also have to acknowledge that Forum is particularly awful when it comes to political geography, which is ironic, because they usually do the most geographically granular political polling. Sad!

Keep in mind though, knowledge of political geography is not needed for most of my job as a pollster. It comes in handy occasionally for sure, but it's not crucial in the industry.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on February 15, 2017, 04:43:10 PM
About a year ago in this thread, I asked what Trudeau and his party campaigned on, what they wanted to accomplish, what the Canadian people were demanding.

What is the status of it all now?

(I vaguely remember some form of electoral reform that people thought was shaky even then, some infrastructure/environmental work with a small price-tag, a small budget deficit being reduced, and something about First/Native Americans)

TrudeauMeter  (https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/)is your friend. Deficits are gargantuan for the foreseeable future, Harper's GHG targets have been adopted and a federal carbon tax is coming. Aboriginal issues - inquiry into missing & murdered women (MMIW) held but otherwise not a yuge change from Harper, despite a better tone. Electoral reform is dead.

Thanks.

Though are those items I listed the "big promises"? Did I miss any "big promises"?
(223 is a lot to scroll through :P )

Kept the promise to make the Senate independent by forming an independent commission to choose the people to appoint.

Kept the promise on the (upper) middle class tax cut.

Brought in a new expanded child benefit that rolled some of the existing benefits into this one and eliminated others.  According to the Liberals, 90% of families will receive higher benefits.

Did away with the muzzle on government scientists and brought back the long form census.

Approved the Kinder Morgan Pipeline.

Also brought in a new law on assisted death after being mandated by the Supreme Court.

Prime Minister Trudeau has broken some promises and breaking the promise on electoral reform was pretty brazen, but overall I'd say this government is a major improvement in policy and tone and has significantly reduced the harshness and hyper partisanship from the Harper Conservative government. Not only is there no noxious person in the cabinet like Pierre Polievre but, in general, I'd say that the Liberal cabinet ministers are far more intelligent than the previous Conservatives.  

The overwhelmingly conservative mainstream Canadian media (at least in terms of the major editorials) has had to whine, for instance, that Justin Trudeau's line at some foreign event of "Canada is back" was nothing more than a boast of "The Liberals are back in power" when what Trudeau clearly meant was that Canada was going to engage in such things as climate change commitments and assisting the United Nations rather than taking disparaging shots at it after not getting a seat back on the Security Counsel.

Also, there will almost certainly not going to be a federal carbon tax as 8 of the 10 provinces and the three  territories already have or will have their own systems in place (either a carbon tax or cap and trade.)  We'll see what happens if Saskatchewan and/or Manitoba hold out (unless the Conservatives win the 2019 election), but I can't imagine whoever the Premiers of those provinces are by then would want to face the wrath of the other Premiers by forcing a national carbon tax.

Thanks.

I ask because I often wonder if Canadian liberals/progressives have a big list of policies to change, like they do in the United States, or if they're mostly happy and just want to do some tweaking.

It seems like the answer is the latter. The only "big things" they want deal with political process, like electoral reform and Senate reform. But as for everything else... it seems people just want to tweak some things, and make sure common-sense things like infrastructure are maintained and the deficit shrinks.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 15, 2017, 05:29:23 PM
Liberals have been the Natural Governing Party (TM) for 120 years, easy to be relaxed when everyone works within your paradigm.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on February 16, 2017, 07:46:35 PM
In other news, infrastructure minister Amarjeet Sohi read out condolences to the bus driver in Winnipeg who was stabbed to death. He started by pointing out that he was a bus driver, after which the Conservatives guffawed in a sneering and elitist attitude. House leader Candace Bergen refused to apologize for that disgrace. ::)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on February 16, 2017, 08:25:18 PM
Liberals have been the Natural Governing Party (TM) for 120 years, easy to be relaxed when everyone works within your paradigm.
But I wonder how much is elitism/complacency/out-of-touch... and how much is that almost every liberal dream has been accomplished already in Canada.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 16, 2017, 09:47:40 PM
Liberals have been the Natural Governing Party (TM) for 120 years, easy to be relaxed when everyone works within your paradigm.
But I wonder how much is elitism/complacency/out-of-touch... and how much is that almost every liberal dream has been accomplished already in Canada.

The latter is what I'm getting at.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 17, 2017, 12:27:34 AM
I  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2662/in-toronto-liberals-and-progressive-conservatives-tied/)love how Forum tries to spin a 416 tie as good news for Wynne. Last poll that had similar 416 # also had Brown +19 provincewide. :P

Why are pollsters so foolish when it comes to electoral commentary? Hatman is literally the only person I've heard who both works for a polling firm and understands political geography well.

Thanks :)

But a lot of professional pundits don't know anything about political geography, so it's par for the course.

Yes, that was odd reporting by Forum, something like "If the Conservatives want to form a majority government they need to be doing better than a tie in the city of Toronto."

How much can the Tories lose in the Toronto and still form a majority government?  Obviously the numbers can't be calculated in isolation, but my guess would be around by around 10%

We also have to acknowledge that Forum is particularly awful when it comes to political geography, which is ironic, because they usually do the most geographically granular political polling. Sad!

Keep in mind though, knowledge of political geography is not needed for most of my job as a pollster. It comes in handy occasionally for sure, but it's not crucial in the industry.

How much political geographic knowledge does a person need to know that Toronto is normally a very liberal (and Liberal) leaning city?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 17, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
I  (http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2662/in-toronto-liberals-and-progressive-conservatives-tied/)love how Forum tries to spin a 416 tie as good news for Wynne. Last poll that had similar 416 # also had Brown +19 provincewide. :P

Why are pollsters so foolish when it comes to electoral commentary? Hatman is literally the only person I've heard who both works for a polling firm and understands political geography well.

Thanks :)

But a lot of professional pundits don't know anything about political geography, so it's par for the course.

Yes, that was odd reporting by Forum, something like "If the Conservatives want to form a majority government they need to be doing better than a tie in the city of Toronto."

How much can the Tories lose in the Toronto and still form a majority government?  Obviously the numbers can't be calculated in isolation, but my guess would be around by around 10%

We also have to acknowledge that Forum is particularly awful when it comes to political geography, which is ironic, because they usually do the most geographically granular political polling. Sad!

Keep in mind though, knowledge of political geography is not needed for most of my job as a pollster. It comes in handy occasionally for sure, but it's not crucial in the industry.

How much political geographic knowledge does a person need to know that Toronto is normally a very liberal (and Liberal) leaning city?

Especially when said polling firm is based in Toronto?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on February 18, 2017, 06:13:24 AM
The former NDP, then BQ MP for Jonquière, Claude Patry is now a regional leader for a far-right organisation called "La Meute" (The Wolf-Pack).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 21, 2017, 05:36:39 AM
Here's another example of pundits knowing nothing of political geography. (http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/full-comment/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/who-will-save-the-conservative-party&pubdate=2017-02-21)

Ignore McParland's main point (which is fine) and focus on what he says about political geography: 
Quote
The alternative would seem to be an easy ride for Liberals and other rival parties, both in Ottawa and the provinces, for the foreseeable future. At present there’s only one elected government willing to have the word “Conservative” in its name – Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister, come on down!

snip

There’s no provincial organization to speak of in British Columbia or Quebec. In Alberta, Jason Kenney appears set to be chosen Progressive-Conservative leader on pledge to end its existence. There’s not a sitting Tory premier in any of the four Atlantic provinces. Only Ontario’s opposition leader, Patrick Brown, can boast a certain advantage, based mainly on Premier Kathleen Wynne’s deep unpopularity and the fact Ontarians know too little about Brown to hold it against him yet.

Ignoring McParland's main point (which is fine), lets take a look at what's wrong with his political geography:

1) It's a pretty universal trend that the party in power underperforms in 'midterm' elections. The Tories have been out of power for a year in a half. Give it time. The Liberals had few provincial governments at this point in Mulroney and Harper's administrations

2) B.C and Quebec's conservative situations are complicated to say the least. As every Dipper knows, BC Liberal does not equal federal Liberal.

3) Citing Jason freaking Kenney as an example of how bad the Tories have it is silly to the least.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on February 23, 2017, 03:44:01 PM
I posted this in OT, but you guys might like this too:






Which Millennial Tribe are you in?
 (geared towards Canadians, but could probably apply outside Canada too)

http://environicsresearch.com/insights/meet-millennials/

After taking the quiz, apparently I'm a "Critical Counterculturalist" (I don't think it's the best description of me, but whatever, it was a fun personality quiz)

Quote
These Canadians share many of the same progressive values as their comrades, the Engaged Idealists: they believe in gender equality, are at ease with diversity of all kinds, and reject discrimination and injustice.

 But while the Engaged Idealists see the world through a social and emotional lens—pursuing authentic relationships and experiences, and striving to express their true selves—the gold standard for Critical Counterculture is clear-eyed rationality.

()



The others are "Engaged Idealists," "New Traditionalists," "Bros and Brittanys," "Lone Wolves," and "Diverse Strivers."


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on February 23, 2017, 05:43:00 PM
I posted this in OT, but you guys might like this too:

Which Millennial Tribe are you in?
 (geared towards Canadians, but could probably apply outside Canada too)

http://environicsresearch.com/insights/meet-millennials/

After taking the quiz, apparently I'm a "Critical Counterculturalist" (I don't think it's the best description of me, but whatever, it was a fun personality quiz)

Quote
These Canadians share many of the same progressive values as their comrades, the Engaged Idealists: they believe in gender equality, are at ease with diversity of all kinds, and reject discrimination and injustice.

 But while the Engaged Idealists see the world through a social and emotional lens—pursuing authentic relationships and experiences, and striving to express their true selves—the gold standard for Critical Counterculture is clear-eyed rationality.

()



The others are "Engaged Idealists," "New Traditionalists," "Bros and Brittanys," "Lone Wolves," and "Diverse Strivers."

I got the same result - that was an interesting quiz.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on February 23, 2017, 05:50:48 PM
Didn't see it posted anywhere yet, so here's the latest Alberta poll from Mainstreet. (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/wildrose-leads-favour-merger/)

Topline numbers are 38/29/23/5/5

Edmonton: 43/26/21/5/4
Calgary: 38/26/22/7/7
Rest of Alberta: 48/27/16/4/4


The federal political temperature in Alberta is also taken. The topline results for that are 67/24/6/4

Edmonton: 48/39/9/4
Calgary: 64/26/5/4
Rest of Alberta: 74/17/5/4


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 23, 2017, 06:33:33 PM
I'm a New Traditional, what a surprise :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 24, 2017, 11:24:46 AM
Didn't see it posted anywhere yet, so here's the latest Alberta poll from Mainstreet. (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/wildrose-leads-favour-merger/)

Topline numbers are 38/29/23/5/5

Edmonton: 43/26/21/5/4
Calgary: 38/26/22/7/7
Rest of Alberta: 48/27/16/4/4


The federal political temperature in Alberta is also taken. The topline results for that are 67/24/6/4

Edmonton: 48/39/9/4
Calgary: 64/26/5/4
Rest of Alberta: 74/17/5/4

The only way those numbers work is if by Edmonton and Calgary, they just mean the cities and not their suburbs.  That skews the numbers for the 'rest of Alberta' a bit I think, since the NDP hold all seven (or so) suburban Edmonton ridings.  There are only around 3 suburban Calgary ridings with Wildrose holding all of them.

NDP still look pretty decent in the city of Edmonton, but in the 2015 election, they received over 50% of the vote in all 19 city ridings.

I've been reading that the provincial ridings in Alberta are skewed in favor of rural areas as opposed to Edmonton and Calgary. There may be more rural ridings than is warranted by their population, but I don't see the big problem overall:

Total ridings: 87
Calgary and suburbs: 28
Edmonton and suburbs: 26
Smaller cities: 10
Rural: 23

Also, 7 of the rural ridings are large and remote northern rural ridings.

The 10 smaller city ridings are:
2 for Red Deer
2 for Lethbridge
2 for Grand Prairie
2 for Fort McMurray
1 for Medicine Hat
1 for Wetaskiwin-Camrose




Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 24, 2017, 11:43:44 AM
I posted this in OT, but you guys might like this too:

Which Millennial Tribe are you in?
 (geared towards Canadians, but could probably apply outside Canada too)

http://environicsresearch.com/insights/meet-millennials/

After taking the quiz, apparently I'm a "Critical Counterculturalist" (I don't think it's the best description of me, but whatever, it was a fun personality quiz)

Quote
These Canadians share many of the same progressive values as their comrades, the Engaged Idealists: they believe in gender equality, are at ease with diversity of all kinds, and reject discrimination and injustice.

 But while the Engaged Idealists see the world through a social and emotional lens—pursuing authentic relationships and experiences, and striving to express their true selves—the gold standard for Critical Counterculture is clear-eyed rationality.





The others are "Engaged Idealists," "New Traditionalists," "Bros and Brittanys," "Lone Wolves," and "Diverse Strivers."

I got the same result - that was an interesting quiz.

Michael Adams, the President of Environics gave a lecture at the Vancouver Institute on January 14, 2006 with similar ideas.  

 Dal Grauer Memorial Lecture
Mr. Michael Adams, President, Environics, Toronto, Ontario
Fire, Ice and American Backlash: Social Change Above the Rio Grande

The lecture can be heard here: https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/12708/items/1.0102938

The first seven minutes is for introductions.  The audio on the website froze up for me, but it can be heard by downloading.

The lecture is about 1 hour long with followed with about 30 minutes of questions and answers.  Usually the speaker repeats the question.

I believe at this lecture Michael Adams commented on American voters something like "You are most likely urban liberal Vancouverites who think Republicans and Republican voters are terrible.  If you think they're extreme, they're moderate compared to many of those who don't vote because they feel disaffected."

That was the first time I heard of the idea of the disaffected right wing extremist that clearly Trump tapped into and got out to vote, in many cases, likely for their first time.

I'm also a member of the critical counterculture.  I don't know if Environics/Michael Adams had the same names for the 'tribes' back in 2006 as he does now, but the 'person' who he had as the avatar for that sort of group back in 2006 was Lisa Simpson who he showed a graphic of.

Of course, this recording is strictly audio. I believe he mentions the names of all the avatars though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on February 24, 2017, 01:58:36 PM
Didn't see it posted anywhere yet, so here's the latest Alberta poll from Mainstreet. (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/wildrose-leads-favour-merger/)

Topline numbers are 38/29/23/5/5

Edmonton: 43/26/21/5/4
Calgary: 38/26/22/7/7
Rest of Alberta: 48/27/16/4/4


The federal political temperature in Alberta is also taken. The topline results for that are 67/24/6/4

Edmonton: 48/39/9/4
Calgary: 64/26/5/4
Rest of Alberta: 74/17/5/4

The only way those numbers work is if by Edmonton and Calgary, they just mean the cities and not their suburbs.  That skews the numbers for the 'rest of Alberta' a bit I think, since the NDP hold all seven (or so) suburban Edmonton ridings.  There are only around 3 suburban Calgary ridings with Wildrose holding all of them.

NDP still look pretty decent in the city of Edmonton, but in the 2015 election, they received over 50% of the vote in all 19 city ridings.

I've been reading that the provincial ridings in Alberta are skewed in favor of rural areas as opposed to Edmonton and Calgary. There may be more rural ridings than is warranted by their population, but I don't see the big problem overall:

Total ridings: 87
Calgary and suburbs: 28
Edmonton and suburbs: 26
Smaller cities: 10
Rural: 23

Also, 7 of the rural ridings are large and remote northern rural ridings.

The 10 smaller city ridings are:
2 for Red Deer
2 for Lethbridge
2 for Grand Prairie
2 for Fort McMurray
1 for Medicine Hat
1 for Wetaskiwin-Camrose

I assume that the Calgary and Edmonton numbers are just for the cities proper. That said, remember that while the NDP do hold a number of ridings surrounding Edmonton, their holds on many of them are much weaker than Edmonton proper. For example, the NDP only won the largely-suburban riding of Leduc-Beaumont with 38% of the vote, while the suburban (but within Edmonton) riding of Edmonton-Ellerslie (directly north of Leduc-Beaumont) gave its NDP candidate 62%.

At 43% in Edmonton overall, especially with a divided opposition, the NDP would likely still win most or all of the seats in Edmonton. It's possible that a handful like Edmonton-Whitemud or Edmonton-South West would slip away, but I imagine they'd retain at least 15 or 16 seats from Edmonton alone. The NDP's challenge will be elsewhere - aside from a few ridings like Calgary-Fort, Lethbridge-West, and Spruce Grove-St. Albert, they don't have particularly strong holds on the rest of their seats. The pending redistribution may change this a bit, but not enough.

As for the rural skew, that's mostly a myth in the modern day, and is largely based on how things in Alberta used to be. Ridings are allocated to the three "regions" of Alberta before being drawn: the City of Calgary, the City of Edmonton, and the "Rest of Alberta." The 2009/10 redistribution gave 25 seats to Calgary, 19 to Edmonton, and 43 to the rest of Alberta, which would result in average population sizes of 42,618 in Calgary, 41,181 in Edmonton, and 39,737 in the Rest of Alberta. The only way (aside from "rurban" ridings in Calgary or Edmonton) that the populations could have been equalized more would have been to transfer one additional seat from the Rest of Alberta to Calgary.

That said, the rural-urban disparities did used to be much greater. Before the 1995/96 redistribution commission began their work, for example, the average riding populations were: 38,404 in Calgary, 34,239 in Edmonton, and 27,824 in the Rest of Alberta.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on February 24, 2017, 07:07:55 PM
I posted this in OT, but you guys might like this too:

Which Millennial Tribe are you in?
 (geared towards Canadians, but could probably apply outside Canada too)

http://environicsresearch.com/insights/meet-millennials/

After taking the quiz, apparently I'm a "Critical Counterculturalist" (I don't think it's the best description of me, but whatever, it was a fun personality quiz)

Quote
These Canadians share many of the same progressive values as their comrades, the Engaged Idealists: they believe in gender equality, are at ease with diversity of all kinds, and reject discrimination and injustice.

 But while the Engaged Idealists see the world through a social and emotional lens—pursuing authentic relationships and experiences, and striving to express their true selves—the gold standard for Critical Counterculture is clear-eyed rationality.

()



The others are "Engaged Idealists," "New Traditionalists," "Bros and Brittanys," "Lone Wolves," and "Diverse Strivers."

I got the same result - that was an interesting quiz.

I got this result too, but I don't really see myself in it--of the three demographic highlights, the only one I fit is "single man". I guess I'm too feminist and probably too much of a slob to fit their definition of a New Traditionalist.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 24, 2017, 09:05:01 PM
Didn't see it posted anywhere yet, so here's the latest Alberta poll from Mainstreet. (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/wildrose-leads-favour-merger/)

Topline numbers are 38/29/23/5/5

Edmonton: 43/26/21/5/4
Calgary: 38/26/22/7/7
Rest of Alberta: 48/27/16/4/4


The federal political temperature in Alberta is also taken. The topline results for that are 67/24/6/4

Edmonton: 48/39/9/4
Calgary: 64/26/5/4
Rest of Alberta: 74/17/5/4

The only way those numbers work is if by Edmonton and Calgary, they just mean the cities and not their suburbs.  That skews the numbers for the 'rest of Alberta' a bit I think, since the NDP hold all seven (or so) suburban Edmonton ridings.  There are only around 3 suburban Calgary ridings with Wildrose holding all of them.

NDP still look pretty decent in the city of Edmonton, but in the 2015 election, they received over 50% of the vote in all 19 city ridings.

I've been reading that the provincial ridings in Alberta are skewed in favor of rural areas as opposed to Edmonton and Calgary. There may be more rural ridings than is warranted by their population, but I don't see the big problem overall:

Total ridings: 87
Calgary and suburbs: 28
Edmonton and suburbs: 26
Smaller cities: 10
Rural: 23

Also, 7 of the rural ridings are large and remote northern rural ridings.

The 10 smaller city ridings are:
2 for Red Deer
2 for Lethbridge
2 for Grand Prairie
2 for Fort McMurray
1 for Medicine Hat
1 for Wetaskiwin-Camrose

I assume that the Calgary and Edmonton numbers are just for the cities proper. That said, remember that while the NDP do hold a number of ridings surrounding Edmonton, their holds on many of them are much weaker than Edmonton proper. For example, the NDP only won the largely-suburban riding of Leduc-Beaumont with 38% of the vote, while the suburban (but within Edmonton) riding of Edmonton-Ellerslie (directly north of Leduc-Beaumont) gave its NDP candidate 62%.

At 43% in Edmonton overall, especially with a divided opposition, the NDP would likely still win most or all of the seats in Edmonton. It's possible that a handful like Edmonton-Whitemud or Edmonton-South West would slip away, but I imagine they'd retain at least 15 or 16 seats from Edmonton alone. The NDP's challenge will be elsewhere - aside from a few ridings like Calgary-Fort, Lethbridge-West, and Spruce Grove-St. Albert, they don't have particularly strong holds on the rest of their seats. The pending redistribution may change this a bit, but not enough.

As for the rural skew, that's mostly a myth in the modern day, and is largely based on how things in Alberta used to be. Ridings are allocated to the three "regions" of Alberta before being drawn: the City of Calgary, the City of Edmonton, and the "Rest of Alberta." The 2009/10 redistribution gave 25 seats to Calgary, 19 to Edmonton, and 43 to the rest of Alberta, which would result in average population sizes of 42,618 in Calgary, 41,181 in Edmonton, and 39,737 in the Rest of Alberta. The only way (aside from "rurban" ridings in Calgary or Edmonton) that the populations could have been equalized more would have been to transfer one additional seat from the Rest of Alberta to Calgary.

That said, the rural-urban disparities did used to be much greater. Before the 1995/96 redistribution commission began their work, for example, the average riding populations were: 38,404 in Calgary, 34,239 in Edmonton, and 27,824 in the Rest of Alberta.

Yes, of the seven ridings suburban Edmonton ridings, the NDP only got over 50% of the vote in St. Albert and Sherwood Park.  Still, the NDP did much better in the other five suburban ridings than the 16% this poll has the NDP at in the'rest of Alberta.'


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 01, 2017, 08:47:47 AM
Wynne will try slashing hydro by 25% this year. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/03/01/premier-kathleen-wynne-to-cut-hydro-rates-by-25-per-cent.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 02, 2017, 05:47:18 AM
Wynne will try slashing hydro by 25% this year. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/03/01/premier-kathleen-wynne-to-cut-hydro-rates-by-25-per-cent.html)

If anyone needed a sign that the government is in trouble, there it is.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 06, 2017, 08:32:03 AM
Government and Mulroney are trying to secure the release of a Chinese-Canadian billionaire but the case is politically hypersensitive since he's caught up in CCP internal politics. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/brian-mulroney-liberal-government-seek-release-of-billionaire-in-china/article34210940/)

Oosterhoff is being challenged by someone he squashed for the PC nomination last year. Vote's tomorrow night. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/03/06/teen-tory-mpp-sam-oosterhoff-is-being-challenged-for-his-niagara-seat.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on March 06, 2017, 11:56:57 AM
Good to see Mulroney becoming a point man to manage sensitive relations with the US, and also China.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 07, 2017, 04:29:22 PM
Budget  (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-to-table-second-budget-march-22-with-focus-on-skills-training/article34231139/)2 weeks from tomorrow will focus on skills training and needless to say there's a political  (http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/canadas-last-lines-of-defence-against-populism/)strategy too.

Ivison's  (https://twitter.com/IvisonJ/status/839222969868103682)hearing airport privatization will be included as he predicted.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 08, 2017, 05:32:21 AM
Budget  (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-to-table-second-budget-march-22-with-focus-on-skills-training/article34231139/)2 weeks from tomorrow will focus on skills training and needless to say there's a political  (http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/canadas-last-lines-of-defence-against-populism/)strategy too.

Will be interesting to see how many tax credits are scaled back or axed completely.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 13, 2017, 07:52:39 AM
Traditional mid-mandate shuffle/Throne Speech might happen later this year. (https://www.hilltimes.com/2017/03/13/liberal-caucus-buzzing-speculation-summer-cabinet-shuffle-new-throne-speech/99327)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 14, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
Quarterly Atlantic Canada poll is out.

Nova Scotia
Liberal: 44% (-12)
PC: 28% (+8)
NDP: 23% (+4)

New Brunswick
Liberal: 51% (-1)
PC: 30% (nc)
NDP: 12% (+5)
Green: 5% (-4)

Newfoundland
PC: 39% (+5)
Liberal: 33% (-9)
NDP: 26% (+4)

PEI
Liberal: 48% (+2)
Green: 26%! (+4)
PC: 19% (-6)
NDP: 7% (nc)

NS Liberals are down largely due to labour strife with the teacher's union. Newfoundland Liberals are in 2nd place, probably due to their massive austerity budgets... and holy cow the Greens are in 2nd place in PEI!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 14, 2017, 10:02:57 PM
Québec Solidaire has had 2000 membership request on the net since Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois made his announcement a few days ago.
 
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201703/13/01-5078171-gabriel-nadeau-dubois-a-quebec-solidaire-2000-nouveaux-militants.php (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201703/13/01-5078171-gabriel-nadeau-dubois-a-quebec-solidaire-2000-nouveaux-militants.php)

He is also running to be male spokesperson. He rails against the political class of the last 30 years. He wants to grow the party outside Montreal. He is open to unite with Option Nationale.

Will be watching the size of bump in the polls after the media attention and if it divides the opposition vote to the Liberals even more.

Update: it is now 4,000 in 5 days. They had 10,000 members before.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 14, 2017, 11:28:04 PM
Quarterly Atlantic Canada poll is out.

Nova Scotia
Liberal: 44% (-12)
PC: 28% (+8)
NDP: 23% (+4)

New Brunswick
Liberal: 51% (-1)
PC: 30% (nc)
NDP: 12% (+5)
Green: 5% (-4)

Newfoundland
PC: 39% (+5)
Liberal: 33% (-9)
NDP: 26% (+4)

PEI
Liberal: 48% (+2)
Green: 26%! (+4)
PC: 19% (-6)
NDP: 7% (nc)

NS Liberals are down largely due to labour strife with the teacher's union. Newfoundland Liberals are in 2nd place, probably due to their massive austerity budgets... and holy cow the Greens are in 2nd place in PEI!

strange Green to NDP swing in NB, considering Cardy left the party.

The Greens in 2nd place in PEI doesn't surprise me. Their leader is very popular, and showed leadership during the electoral reform debate.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 18, 2017, 08:57:25 PM
Will be watching the size of bump in the polls after the media attention and if it divides the opposition vote to the Liberals even more.

Québec Solidaire has a 5 point boost compared to the January Léger poll. PQ minus 4. Makes the PLQ in comfortable position. Full results of the poll. http://www.leger360.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/201703181fr.pdf (http://www.leger360.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/201703181fr.pdf)

Party % (% francophone vote)

PLQ 34% (22)
PQ 25% (31)
CAQ 22% (25)
QS 14% (17)
Conservateur 2% (2)
Vert 1% (1)

63% would like a change in government but when asked who represents change the most, it's even between CAQ, PQ and QS with about 25% for each.

32% wish for an electoral alliance betwwen PQ and QS, 36% against. PQ voters are the most in favor, 73% are for, 9% against. QS voters are 43% for, 26% against. 

There is an anti-politics sentiment. 50% agree in some form with the statement We must get rid of the politics class who governed the last 30 years because it betrayed Quebec. 37% disagree.

46% would prefer a new politician who represents change while 41% would choose an experienced politician who knows how government works.     


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: UWS on March 20, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Recently, in Netherlands, Geert Wilders, leader of the Party of Freedom (far-right) lost the 2017 Dutch elections to incumbent Prime Minister Mark Rutte while he had a decent chance to win.

According to a recent poll, Donald Trump's approval rating hit a new low : only 37 % of Americans approve his job performance as President.

In France, recent polls show that Emmanuel Macron is likely to be qualified for the second round against Marine Le Pen and in this round he would receive 60 % of the vote over Le Pen's 40 %.

So, could all these populist failures combined together doom Kevin O'Leary (considered as the Canadian Trump) during the 2017 Conservative Party of Canada Leadership election?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on March 20, 2017, 01:58:14 PM
I would say no. Elections aren't independent events - there is overspill over borders - but it isn't as simplistic as that. Especially as O'Leary isn't really that much like Wilders or Le Pen or even Trump (beyond the superficial similarities).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on March 20, 2017, 02:33:16 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lisa-raitt-bernier-oleary-voter-fraud-1.4032482

Leadership race now a circular firing squad, even without the microwaved Trumpism.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 20, 2017, 05:25:55 PM
Airport privatization won't be in the budget. (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/03/20/liberals-privatizing-airports-canada-budget-2017_n_15500452.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 22, 2017, 08:14:59 PM
CBC budget roundup. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-trudeau-morneau-budget-2017-1.4034793)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Jeppe on March 28, 2017, 09:01:26 AM
Would be nice to see a provincial poll come out of Saskatchewan. The budget was very unpopular with both city and rural folk, and I wouldn't be surprised to see if the Sask Party's 30 point victory evaporated into a single digit lead in a poll.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ProgressiveCanadian on March 28, 2017, 06:58:36 PM
Conservatives are ahead in a new poll by 2 points...The Trudeau government has officially failed.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 30, 2017, 04:59:37 AM
So here's a funny story:

Last night an American conservative writer was on Twitter and mentioned something about Mike Pence was wise not to have dinner alone with women who weren't his wife. He got jumped on for being a sexist and not valuing women's equality... and Kim Campbell of all people came to his defence.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 31, 2017, 07:11:20 AM
Conservatives are ahead in a new poll by 2 points...The Trudeau government has officially failed.

That's a junk Forum Poll. And even worse, it was paid for by the Toronto Sun. 

Of course, if the Liberals fall in support, the Conservatives will rise against them, even in a relative way, but I've seen nothing that suggests to me the Conservative Party has done anything to appeal to anybody beyond it's 30-33% voter base.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 31, 2017, 07:15:09 AM
Speaking  (http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/31/liberals-would-lose-official-party-status-if-election-held-today-poll)of Sun Forum polls, latest one claims Wynne's gonna be Campbelled. Like you, Adam, I have trouble taking Forum seriously.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 31, 2017, 07:20:45 AM
Conservatives are ahead in a new poll by 2 points...The Trudeau government has officially failed.

That's a junk Forum Poll. And even worse, it was paid for by the Toronto Sun. 

Of course, if the Liberals fall in support, the Conservatives will rise against them, even in a relative way, but I've seen nothing that suggests to me the Conservative Party has done anything to appeal to anybody beyond it's 30-33% voter base.

Even if the poll is right, it's meaningless right now. The Liberals were ahead at this point in Harper's second term and we all know how that turned out for them :P

If it's March 2019 and the Tories and NDP have their new leaders and the Liberals are still behind in the polls, then I'll get excited, but for now, this is just fool's gold caused by Liberal errors the past few weeks.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 31, 2017, 07:23:17 AM
Speaking  (http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/31/liberals-would-lose-official-party-status-if-election-held-today-poll)of Sun Forum polls, latest one claims Wynne's gonna be Campbelled. Like you, Adam, I have trouble taking Forum seriously.

Wasn't Forum notorious for overpolling the Liberals until recently? Why the change?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 31, 2017, 07:44:57 AM
Speaking  (http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/31/liberals-would-lose-official-party-status-if-election-held-today-poll)of Sun Forum polls, latest one claims Wynne's gonna be Campbelled. Like you, Adam, I have trouble taking Forum seriously.

Wasn't Forum notorious for overpolling the Liberals until recently? Why the change?

Forum also overpolled the NDP at the start of the 2015 federal election campaign.  The reason their polls are junk isn't because they overpoll a party compared to other polls (whether it's because that party or their supporters paid for that poll or not), it's because their polls are notorious for having fairly wide swings in support over short periods of time.

I don't know what Forum's problem is, but they have obvious problems with their methodology.  Without knowing anything about the firm, but having a background in economics, my best guess is that Forum is the low cost/low quality variety of polling firm, which would undoubtedly be especially appealing to media outlets these days.

From Wiki, these are the Forum polls at the beginning of the 2015 election. Again, that they showed higher support for the NDP and lower support for the Conservatives than any other polling firm is secondary.

August 02, Conservative, 28%, NDP 39%, Liberal 25%
August 11, Conservative 28%, NDP 34%, Liberal 27%
August 19, Conservative 29%, NDP 34%, Liberal 28%
August 24, Conservative 23% NDP 40%, Liberal 30%
Sept    01, Conservative 24%, NDP 36%, Liberal 32%

I suppose if you 'smooth out' these polls, the graph wouldn't be that far off, but, even then, the other polls during this period of the election campaign showed no real change in support for the three parties.
So, in this case, we see here the Liberals don't show any wide swing in support, but they show a 7% increase according to Forum during the month of August when the other polling firms showed essentially no increase or decrease for the Liberals.

Of course, it's also impossible to 'smooth out' a single poll.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 31, 2017, 09:37:52 AM
Came here to post the Forum poll, but I see it's already being discussed. Methodology aside, all I can say is LOL.

If these are the numbers heading into the campaign, you can bet the Liberals will erode even further, as left-Liberals swing to the NDP to try and (futilely) stop Patrick Brown. Maybe we can finally win Ottawa Centre back! I can see the NDP is barely ahead of the Liberals in Toronto, so you can tell there is a lot of room for the NDP to grow there, if voters can behind Horwath whose populism is a bit of a hard sell to the Downtown elites (same deal in Ottawa Centre, which is very similar to DT Toronto).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 31, 2017, 09:52:14 AM
Came here to post the Forum poll, but I see it's already being discussed. Methodology aside, all I can say is LOL.

If these are the numbers heading into the campaign, you can bet the Liberals will erode even further, as left-Liberals swing to the NDP to try and (futilely) stop Patrick Brown. Maybe we can finally win Ottawa Centre back! I can see the NDP is barely ahead of the Liberals in Toronto, so you can tell there is a lot of room for the NDP to grow there, if voters can behind Horwath whose populism is a bit of a hard sell to the Downtown elites (same deal in Ottawa Centre, which is very similar to DT Toronto).

We were mostly discussing the federal Forum polls.

The Ontario Liberals are due to be seriously punished.  Jagmeet Singh for next Ontario NDP leader and Premier!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 31, 2017, 10:19:44 AM
Came here to post the Forum poll, but I see it's already being discussed. Methodology aside, all I can say is LOL.

If these are the numbers heading into the campaign, you can bet the Liberals will erode even further, as left-Liberals swing to the NDP to try and (futilely) stop Patrick Brown. Maybe we can finally win Ottawa Centre back! I can see the NDP is barely ahead of the Liberals in Toronto, so you can tell there is a lot of room for the NDP to grow there, if voters can behind Horwath whose populism is a bit of a hard sell to the Downtown elites (same deal in Ottawa Centre, which is very similar to DT Toronto).

We were mostly discussing the federal Forum polls.

The Ontario Liberals are due to be seriously punished.  Jagmeet Singh for next Ontario NDP leader and Premier!

I'd prefer him as federal leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 31, 2017, 11:20:08 AM
Came here to post the Forum poll, but I see it's already being discussed. Methodology aside, all I can say is LOL.

If these are the numbers heading into the campaign, you can bet the Liberals will erode even further, as left-Liberals swing to the NDP to try and (futilely) stop Patrick Brown. Maybe we can finally win Ottawa Centre back! I can see the NDP is barely ahead of the Liberals in Toronto, so you can tell there is a lot of room for the NDP to grow there, if voters can behind Horwath whose populism is a bit of a hard sell to the Downtown elites (same deal in Ottawa Centre, which is very similar to DT Toronto).

We were mostly discussing the federal Forum polls.

The Ontario Liberals are due to be seriously punished.  Jagmeet Singh for next Ontario NDP leader and Premier!

I'd prefer him as federal leader.

I appreciate that predictions are difficult, especially predictions about the future (I forget who came up with that line) but, not even seriously asking do you think Singh could lead the NDP to power federally.

Which do you think is more likely:
1.That Jagmeet Singh could help the NDP gain a significant amount of seats federally
2.That Jagmeet Singh could become Premier of Ontario

?

Because if he's more likely to become Premier, then he'd clearly be of more use to the NDP provincially than federally.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 31, 2017, 05:52:20 PM
I think the former is more likely, actually. Hard to see the NDP forming government in this province (not until everyone who was of voting age during the Bob Rae premiership dies off), but making seat gains federally? Not at all unlikely.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on April 01, 2017, 02:25:49 AM
I think the former is more likely, actually. Hard to see the NDP forming government in this province (not until everyone who was of voting age during the Bob Rae premiership dies off), but making seat gains federally? Not at all unlikely.

Funny the number of people in Ontario who will never vote NDP again due to the Bob Rae government, but hardly anybody seems to hold the Dalton McGuinty government against either the provincial or federal liberals.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 01, 2017, 03:56:27 AM
I think the former is more likely, actually. Hard to see the NDP forming government in this province (not until everyone who was of voting age during the Bob Rae premiership dies off), but making seat gains federally? Not at all unlikely.

Funny the number of people in Ontario who will never vote NDP again due to the Bob Rae government, but hardly anybody seems to hold the Dalton McGuinty government against either the provincial or federal liberals.

Helps have the CBC propaganda machine on its side.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 04, 2017, 10:04:31 PM
Would be nice to see a provincial poll come out of Saskatchewan. The budget was very unpopular with both city and rural folk, and I wouldn't be surprised to see if the Sask Party's 30 point victory evaporated into a single digit lead in a poll.

Mainstreet did a post-budget poll.

47% would vote for the Sask Party, 42% NDP. NDP lead in Regina, narrow lead in Saskatoon and Sask dominates outside the cities.

Wall has a 46% approval rating, 45% disapproval.

http://leaderpost.com/news/politics/new-poll-shows-walls-popularity-falls-as-taxes-and-cuts-rise (http://leaderpost.com/news/politics/new-poll-shows-walls-popularity-falls-as-taxes-and-cuts-rise)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 05, 2017, 01:47:51 PM
I think the former is more likely, actually. Hard to see the NDP forming government in this province (not until everyone who was of voting age during the Bob Rae premiership dies off), but making seat gains federally? Not at all unlikely.

Funny the number of people in Ontario who will never vote NDP again due to the Bob Rae government, but hardly anybody seems to hold the Dalton McGuinty government against either the provincial or federal liberals.

This is common in many jurisdictions. People hold the NDP to a different standard, because they rarely form government.

Would be nice to see a provincial poll come out of Saskatchewan. The budget was very unpopular with both city and rural folk, and I wouldn't be surprised to see if the Sask Party's 30 point victory evaporated into a single digit lead in a poll.

Mainstreet did a post-budget poll.

47% would vote for the Sask Party, 42% NDP. NDP lead in Regina, narrow lead in Saskatoon and Sask dominates outside the cities.

Wall has a 46% approval rating, 45% disapproval.

http://leaderpost.com/news/politics/new-poll-shows-walls-popularity-falls-as-taxes-and-cuts-rise (http://leaderpost.com/news/politics/new-poll-shows-walls-popularity-falls-as-taxes-and-cuts-rise)


Holy sh*tsnacks!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 08, 2017, 08:42:13 AM
Postmedia's about to croak. (https://ipolitics.ca/2017/04/07/what-happens-when-postmedia-finally-dies/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 18, 2017, 10:50:02 AM
Star hints again that Wynne could resign this summer given the Mulroney 1993 situation on her hands. Grit MPPs swarming exits, bad fundraising & internals showing them a distant 3rd. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/04/18/speculation-swirls-over-wynnes-future.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 24, 2017, 05:46:55 AM
Might be an election call in Nova Scotia in the next several weeks. Everyone's running around nominating candidates and the Nova Scotia NDP had their campaign launch despite the fact that an election hasn't been called. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ndp-election-campaign-gary-burrill-stephen-mcneil-liberals-1.4082114)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: andrew_c on April 28, 2017, 04:41:28 PM
Leaked NS Liberal ad suggests election day on May 30. (http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1463839-mcneil-liberals-take-heat-for-misspelled-word-in-an-early-election-campaign-ad)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 29, 2017, 08:58:39 AM
Albertan  (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-alberta-conservatives-edge-toward-merger-but-who-will-lead)merger talks heating up, agreement might even happen this weekend, but plenty of moving parts. Rempel  (http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/04/28/calgary-conservative-mp-michelle-rempel-is-considering-a-run-for-mayor)is considering challenging Nenshi for the Calgary mayoralty.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 09, 2017, 02:04:11 PM
Good riddance: Meredith has quit. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/05/09/disgraced-senator-don-meredith-is-resigning.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on May 09, 2017, 04:48:35 PM
Albertan  (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-alberta-conservatives-edge-toward-merger-but-who-will-lead)merger talks heating up, agreement might even happen this weekend, but plenty of moving parts. Rempel  (http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/04/28/calgary-conservative-mp-michelle-rempel-is-considering-a-run-for-mayor)is considering challenging Nenshi for the Calgary mayoralty.

I like this part of the report on Michelle Rempel
"She has guts. She’s survived the idiots in Ottawa."

I think she is the biggest idiot in Ottawa. A hyper partisan who claims to decry partisan attacks, when not making nasty partisan attacks herself.  She's also an immature air head.

I hope she runs, resigns from Parliament and gets destroyed by Nenshi.  Addition by subtraction.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on May 10, 2017, 01:27:45 PM
I hope she runs, resigns from Parliament and gets destroyed by Nenshi.  Addition by subtraction.
You know how this works. She won't resign while campaigning for mayor, and then when she's destroyed she'll say voters gave her a mandate to continue being their voice in Ottawa. It doesn't matter either way because she's in a safe blue seat.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 15, 2017, 03:27:22 PM
WHOA: Ambrose quitting politics after the new leader is elected. (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/05/15/ambrose-expected-to-announce-resignation-as-mp-tuesday-sources/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on May 15, 2017, 04:04:38 PM
WHOA: Ambrose quitting politics after the new leader is elected. (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/05/15/ambrose-expected-to-announce-resignation-as-mp-tuesday-sources/)

Jesus, how many actual prominent Harper people are left?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on May 17, 2017, 04:13:51 PM
Shocker poll has the OLP leading with 37% to the PCs 34%: http://www.qpbriefing.com/2017/05/17/ontario-liberals-could-be-on-comeback-trail-a-poll-suggests/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 18, 2017, 09:24:36 AM
Alberta is about to Unite The Right! (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/865201039917625344)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on May 18, 2017, 01:59:52 PM
Alberta is about to Unite The Right! (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/865201039917625344)

Livestream of Jean and Kenney's remarks here for anyone who's interested (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-wildrose-pc-conservatives-merger-1.4121473)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on May 18, 2017, 02:26:22 PM
Thank God. Time to end the socialist tyranny.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on May 19, 2017, 04:35:24 PM
Alberta is about to Unite The Right! (https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/865201039917625344)

Some Wildrose figures (Brian Jean, Drew Barnes, Paul Hinman, etc.) are unsure that the agreement will get enough support from their party. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/party-membership-uncertainty-may-derail-unity-deal-says-wildrose-mla) For context, the WRP constitution requires 75% of their members to vote in favour of a merger. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on May 19, 2017, 04:52:05 PM
WHOA: Ambrose quitting politics after the new leader is elected. (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/05/15/ambrose-expected-to-announce-resignation-as-mp-tuesday-sources/)

Jesus, how many actual prominent Harper people are left?

Rob Nicholson.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on May 19, 2017, 08:41:30 PM
WHOA: Ambrose quitting politics after the new leader is elected. (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/05/15/ambrose-expected-to-announce-resignation-as-mp-tuesday-sources/)

Jesus, how many actual prominent Harper people are left?

Rob Nicholson.

Tony Clement, Diane Finley


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on May 20, 2017, 07:59:55 PM
WHOA: Ambrose quitting politics after the new leader is elected. (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/05/15/ambrose-expected-to-announce-resignation-as-mp-tuesday-sources/)

Jesus, how many actual prominent Harper people are left?

Rob Nicholson.

Tony Clement, Diane Finley

I would argue Nicholson is the biggest name left.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 21, 2017, 08:49:38 AM
How are we defining 'Harper' people? Bernier, Raitt and O'Toole were all in cabinet. So was Chong although he's a different case.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 21, 2017, 09:13:25 AM
If he means people in high-profile ministerial/critic roles during the Martin government or Harper's first term.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 21, 2017, 06:29:54 PM
We're moving ahead with TPP. (http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2017/05/21/canada-10-other-countries-will-move-forward-on-a-new-tpp-after-us-withdrawal/#.WSId6WgrKUl)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on May 23, 2017, 09:51:02 PM
In Quebec provincial politics, delegates at the meeting of Québec Solidaire voted against an electoral pact with the Parti Québécois. In some ridings only one candidate of the two parties would run to increase chances of winning and defeat the PLQ. Polls showed alliances between opposition parties to be popular among their voters. QS has voted to have talks about a merge with Option Nationale.

The left vote will be split and will be very hard to win. The CAQ polled ahead of the PQ in last week poll and could be seen has the best alternative for those wanting a change in government.

There is an agreement between PQ, QS, Option Nationale and the Bloc on a roadmap for sovereignty in the future. It seems there would be a citizens assembly to write a constitution. I think that was QS that wanted that. QS asked to keep it secret for now. Strange that PQ and QS could work together in the future since QS delegates called it racist and see them as neoliberal like the other parties. Some say QS wants to replace the PQ. I don't see how a more radical party would be more successful.

There was hummus in the lunch at the QS meeting. They removed it because it was from Israel and they persecute Palestinians.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 25, 2017, 05:21:06 PM
Mid-mandate housecleaning inbound. (http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAKBN18L2K6-OCADN?sp=true)

On this province: count me extremely skeptical CAQ surge will hold. Happens every 5 years: ADQ 2002/7, CAQ 2011 & now. PQ missed their chance a decade ago (as Josee Legault, Michel David & others have said then & now) to nip these problems in the bud, like Unionists did with BP & RIN. Too late now. So they're stuck in a weird purgatory where QS is an erosion which can't be squashed but not a fatal one a la 1970.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 25, 2017, 05:59:33 PM
Mid-mandate housecleaning inbound. (http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAKBN18L2K6-OCADN?sp=true)

On this province: count me extremely skeptical CAQ surge will hold. Happens every 5 years: ADQ 2002/7, CAQ 2011 & now. PQ missed their chance a decade ago (as Josee Legault, Michel David & others have said then & now) to nip these problems in the bud, like Unionists did with BP & RIN. Too late now. So they're stuck in a weird purgatory where QS is an erosion which can't be squashed but not a fatal one a la 1970.

How exactly did Union Nationale squash BP & RIN?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 26, 2017, 12:06:19 PM
Mid-mandate housecleaning inbound. (http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAKBN18L2K6-OCADN?sp=true)

On this province: count me extremely skeptical CAQ surge will hold. Happens every 5 years: ADQ 2002/7, CAQ 2011 & now. PQ missed their chance a decade ago (as Josee Legault, Michel David & others have said then & now) to nip these problems in the bud, like Unionists did with BP & RIN. Too late now. So they're stuck in a weird purgatory where QS is an erosion which can't be squashed but not a fatal one a la 1970.

How exactly did Union Nationale squash BP & RIN?

To simplify a bit, co-opted their issues in a diluted form then steamrollered them. BP fell apart pretty quickly once the war ended. RIN was different: Johnson and Bourgault negotiated an electoral pact whose effect was bleeding Grits in suburbia both on & off-island, allowing UN to come up the middle there. Especially younger lefty nationalists/separatists who couldn't stomach voting for conservatives. Johnson's death (per Black, Johnson saw '66 as '44 & '70 as '48) ended the prospect of Phase 2. The pact was 1) consolidate behind UN candidate in 12 swing ridings while leaving poteau on ballot 2) no-comp in leader ridings 3) concentrate their combined energy on Grits. Pretty much what Lisée would want now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 26, 2017, 09:41:30 PM
I heard the other day that the NDP is finally going to get the ball running in terms of fielding candidates for the next provincial election? Wonder if that will shake things up a bit. Depends who the leader is, I guess.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 27, 2017, 07:06:00 AM
Mid-mandate housecleaning inbound. (http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAKBN18L2K6-OCADN?sp=true)

On this province: count me extremely skeptical CAQ surge will hold. Happens every 5 years: ADQ 2002/7, CAQ 2011 & now. PQ missed their chance a decade ago (as Josee Legault, Michel David & others have said then & now) to nip these problems in the bud, like Unionists did with BP & RIN. Too late now. So they're stuck in a weird purgatory where QS is an erosion which can't be squashed but not a fatal one a la 1970.

How exactly did Union Nationale squash BP & RIN?

To simplify a bit, co-opted their issues in a diluted form then steamrollered them. BP fell apart pretty quickly once the war ended. RIN was different: Johnson and Bourgault negotiated an electoral pact whose effect was bleeding Grits in suburbia both on & off-island, allowing UN to come up the middle there. Especially younger lefty nationalists/separatists who couldn't stomach voting for conservatives. Johnson's death (per Black, Johnson saw '66 as '44 & '70 as '48) ended the prospect of Phase 2. The pact was 1) consolidate behind UN candidate in 12 swing ridings while leaving poteau on ballot 2) no-comp in leader ridings 3) concentrate their combined energy on Grits. Pretty much what Lisée would want now.

Interesting, thank you.

I heard the other day that the NDP is finally going to get the ball running in terms of fielding candidates for the next provincial election? Wonder if that will shake things up a bit. Depends who the leader is, I guess.

How do you think they would do at this point? I mainly remember this as a pre-Trudeau idea. What's the ignored demographic they'd be targeting? Leftish federalists who can't bring themselves to vote QS?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 27, 2017, 09:41:42 AM
I agree with Bélanger that GND's arrival ends what little prospect there was for NPDQ. (http://lactualite.com/politique/2017/05/26/va-t-il-tuer-le-projet-dun-npd-quebec/) Léger poll showing a potential QS-ON alliance at 18% & increasing regional strength should start worrying the PQ IMO.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 27, 2017, 03:27:59 PM
Caroline Mulroney is considering running for Parliament, presumably in the 905. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/caroline-mulroney-run-federal-politics-1.4134505)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 27, 2017, 04:57:28 PM
Mid-mandate housecleaning inbound. (http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAKBN18L2K6-OCADN?sp=true)

On this province: count me extremely skeptical CAQ surge will hold. Happens every 5 years: ADQ 2002/7, CAQ 2011 & now. PQ missed their chance a decade ago (as Josee Legault, Michel David & others have said then & now) to nip these problems in the bud, like Unionists did with BP & RIN. Too late now. So they're stuck in a weird purgatory where QS is an erosion which can't be squashed but not a fatal one a la 1970.

How exactly did Union Nationale squash BP & RIN?

To simplify a bit, co-opted their issues in a diluted form then steamrollered them. BP fell apart pretty quickly once the war ended. RIN was different: Johnson and Bourgault negotiated an electoral pact whose effect was bleeding Grits in suburbia both on & off-island, allowing UN to come up the middle there. Especially younger lefty nationalists/separatists who couldn't stomach voting for conservatives. Johnson's death (per Black, Johnson saw '66 as '44 & '70 as '48) ended the prospect of Phase 2. The pact was 1) consolidate behind UN candidate in 12 swing ridings while leaving poteau on ballot 2) no-comp in leader ridings 3) concentrate their combined energy on Grits. Pretty much what Lisée would want now.

Interesting, thank you.

I heard the other day that the NDP is finally going to get the ball running in terms of fielding candidates for the next provincial election? Wonder if that will shake things up a bit. Depends who the leader is, I guess.

How do you think they would do at this point? I mainly remember this as a pre-Trudeau idea. What's the ignored demographic they'd be targeting? Leftish federalists who can't bring themselves to vote QS?

I think they might have some following if Pierre Ducasse remained as leader, but the problem in Quebec is there aren't many left wing federalists. Same reason Northern Ireland doesn't have a left wing unionist party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 28, 2017, 07:56:02 AM
Ontario: PC MPP Jack McLaren expelled from caucus for Francophobia. (http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mpp-jack-maclaren-booted-from-tory-caucus-after-video-from-2012-emerges-1.3432696)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 01, 2017, 01:39:14 AM
Saskatchewan NDP have a 9% lead in latest poll
http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/sk-party-fades-as-ndp-takes-9-point-lead/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/poll-lowest-sask-party-support-1.4077126

Brad Wall looks like he's aged a decade in the last 2 years.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 01, 2017, 09:49:52 AM
Lol at the random PC revival though!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 02, 2017, 08:35:28 PM
Bernier might challenge Scheer's legitimacy. (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/maxime-bernier-andrew-scheer-conservative-leadership-race/article35187722/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 06, 2017, 09:33:20 AM
CRA update: 46/33/11 in NB (https://cra.ca/new-brunswick-liberals-continue-to-enjoy-lead-as-preferred-party-although-gap-is-narrowing/), 38/26/26/10 in PEI. (https://cra.ca/pei-liberals-remain-the-preferred-political-party-despite-continuing-decline-in-support/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 07, 2017, 11:47:17 AM
Hey RB, you should include the Greens when reporting on NB polls, since they have a seat in the legislature. Poll has them at 6%, which is 1% lower than in the last election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 07, 2017, 01:03:17 PM
Meilleur withdraws her OLC nomination. (https://twitter.com/ICILouisBlouin/status/872513750166843395)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on June 12, 2017, 02:28:23 PM
Beverley McLachlin stepping down from SC.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-canada-announcement-1.4157132 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-canada-announcement-1.4157132)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 19, 2017, 07:28:38 PM
Denis Lebel is retiring (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/denis-lebel-conservative-retiring-politics-1.4167004)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 21, 2017, 12:33:00 PM
Mainstreet-QC:  (http://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/quebec-poll-fed-by-gabriel-nadeau-duboiss-charm-campaign-qs-nipping-at-pqs-heels)33/27/22/18. Grits lead here on the island with PQ/QS tied at 19%, CAQ leads in Quebec City, 3-way race elsewhere. We'll see how long GND-manie lasts.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on June 22, 2017, 10:57:50 AM
Could QS become a serious competitor? That would be great.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 22, 2017, 05:46:35 PM
Could QS become a serious competitor? That would be great.

They will do as they always do, and gain one more seat (Hochelaga-Maisonneuve to be exact). At this rate, they will get a majority government in ~250 years.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 22, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
What is more important for QS, separatism or leftism?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on June 22, 2017, 07:31:30 PM
Could QS become a serious competitor? That would be great.

They will do as they always do, and gain one more seat (Hochelaga-Maisonneuve to be exact). At this rate, they will get a majority government in ~250 years.

With PQ that low, I would expect Lisée to be in danger in Rosemont, and, if Liberals are to lose, it might be possible in Laurier-Dorion (the fact the MLA was expelled for being a sex creep does help them).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Boston Bread on June 22, 2017, 08:27:47 PM
What is more important for QS, separatism or leftism?
Leftism is the impression that I get from them.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 22, 2017, 08:39:53 PM
Could QS become a serious competitor? That would be great.

They will do as they always do, and gain one more seat (Hochelaga-Maisonneuve to be exact). At this rate, they will get a majority government in ~250 years.

In no way am I trying to play on the sleazy implication that all those on the left are no different than communists, but just to add to the joke here, in order to speed up the date of their majority government, QS should insist on elections being held using the same schedule as elections to the Russian Soviets in 1917: every two weeks.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on June 23, 2017, 03:37:28 PM
What has the PQ done to offend the sensibilities of the left wing sovereignty movement? I do know that when the PQ was founded in the 1970's it was very close with the labour movement and was a dedicated social democratic party. Did they take the Clintonian DLC/Tony Blair New Labour approach in the 1990's then?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 23, 2017, 05:53:17 PM
What has the PQ done to offend the sensibilities of the left wing sovereignty movement? I do know that when the PQ was founded in the 1970's it was very close with the labour movement and was a dedicated social democratic party. Did they take the Clintonian DLC/Tony Blair New Labour approach in the 1990's then?

A lot of it has to do with the election of Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, that and the fact that the PQ has a nobody as its leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 23, 2017, 06:04:13 PM
Yes, QS originates from PQ's fiscal hawkishness under Bouchard and to a lesser extent, Marois - "déficit zéro" as it's known here. Just one of their major structural weaknesses.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 24, 2017, 08:39:42 AM
Leger confirms Mainstreet:  (http://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/sondpolqc_24017.pdf)31/28/22/15.  

No summer shuffle. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cabinet-shuffle-canada-us-relations-1.4175935) Though IMO we'll still have a fall prorogation.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 24, 2017, 03:31:17 PM
I love how QS is polling higher among Anglos/Allos than the PQ; twice as high even.  I suppose the PQ is seen as the "separatist party" whereas QS is seen as the "socialist party" despite the two parties being just as committed to sovereignty. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on June 24, 2017, 04:02:02 PM
I love how QS is polling higher among Anglos/Allos than the PQ; twice as high even.  I suppose the PQ is seen as the "separatist party" whereas QS is seen as the "socialist party" despite the two parties being just as committed to sovereignty. 

There is a difference. Soverignty is the goal for PQ, it's a mean to QS (to execute their program).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on June 25, 2017, 07:44:16 PM
Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-party-centrists-election-2019-1.4176915?cmp=rss) ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 26, 2017, 04:43:47 AM
Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-party-centrists-election-2019-1.4176915?cmp=rss) ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 26, 2017, 07:33:22 AM
Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-party-centrists-election-2019-1.4176915?cmp=rss) ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: TheSaint250 on June 26, 2017, 07:39:30 AM
Any chance of an early Alberta election?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 26, 2017, 07:54:07 AM
Any chance of an early Alberta election?

Can't think why the NDP would call one, especially considering their only hope is to hope the oil prices rise soon and the diasterous move by Prentice in 2015 that brought them into power in the first place.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 26, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
They're polling around 25%, so no. Or she can ask David Peterson and Pauline Marois for advice.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: TheSaint250 on June 26, 2017, 08:43:27 AM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 26, 2017, 12:38:05 PM
Bipartisanship or holding pattern? (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/06/26/lawrence-cannon-reappointed-as-ambassador-to-france/)

Grit backbenchers want Justin to guarantee their nominations. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2017/06/26/liberal-mps-want-protection-nomination-challenges-2019-election/111437)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 26, 2017, 12:48:44 PM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: TheSaint250 on June 26, 2017, 01:37:52 PM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.
Especially, in this case with NDP down by so much.

Also, second question: is there any progress at all on uniting Wildrose and PC, or is that just the leader's fantasy?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 26, 2017, 01:44:26 PM
Read the thread. Both parties will hold merger referenda on July 22.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: TheSaint250 on June 26, 2017, 01:48:35 PM
Read the thread. Both parties will hold merger referenda on July 22.
Oh ok sorry


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 26, 2017, 05:43:36 PM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.
Especially, in this case with NDP down by so much.


Doesn't matter what the polls say, no lead is safe when a snap election is called. I kept telling people this when the UK election was called, but it fell on deaf ears around here.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on June 26, 2017, 05:52:47 PM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.


Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-party-centrists-election-2019-1.4176915?cmp=rss) ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.


On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 27, 2017, 05:16:53 PM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.


Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-party-centrists-election-2019-1.4176915?cmp=rss) ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.


On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.

I can certainly appreciate the 'stocker shock' at the size of the deficits under the NDP government.  But, I think this new 'centrist' party, if it emerges, needs to be made to deal in specifics.  If it wants to cut spending, they need to detail precisely what spending cuts they would make.  If they reply to a question on this with 'reduce waste and make efficiencies' they should not be regarded as a serious political party.

I also am aware that Alberta pays its public servants more than in other provinces and that the NDP is currently in the process of negotiating new contracts that involve 0% wage increases over the life of the contract.  So, if the answer from this new party is 'we would legislate wage rollbacks to the public service'  I think that is a responsible government response to the deficits, but I think Albertans should be aware of that when voting in 2019.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on June 27, 2017, 05:30:12 PM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.


Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-party-centrists-election-2019-1.4176915?cmp=rss) ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.


On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.

I can certainly appreciate the 'stocker shock' at the size of the deficits under the NDP government.  But, I think this new 'centrist' party, if it emerges, needs to be made to deal in specifics.  If it wants to cut spending, they need to detail precisely what spending cuts they would make.  If they reply to a question on this with 'reduce waste and make efficiencies' they should not be regarded as a serious political party.

The Alberta Party, which appears to be the likely vehicle for centrist unity, has been the only opposition party to release shadow budgets each year since the NDP got in. Here is their 2017 shadow budget. (http://www.albertaparty.ca/2017abpartycaucusshadowbudget)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 27, 2017, 06:30:39 PM
Ok, thanks. I saw an article that said something about it, but I didn't think it sounded too realistic.

Calling early elections is just about the stupidest decision a politician can make in a Westminster system.

In any case, Notley's already nixed the idea.


Alberta's political centrists are attempting to consolidate around the Alberta Party (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-party-centrists-election-2019-1.4176915?cmp=rss) ahead of the 2019 election. Alberta Together, a new centrist PAC being run by Stephen Mandel (former Edmonton Mayor) and Katherine O'Neill (until recently, President of PC Alberta) hosted a cross-party meeting of centrists in Red Deer yesterday, during which 83% of attendees voted in favour of the Alberta Party as the best vehicle to present a credible centrist option in 2019.

What's the point? The only way a non right wing party is going to win is with a divided right or a catch-all non Conservative Party. And the NDP is the best vehicle for that, it certainly is very centrist (at least compared to where the NDP is usually in other jurisdictions).

There are quite a number of people who see the NDP as being too fiscally irresponsible (due to year-over-year deficit projections of $10 billion or more even with optimistic oil price projections, the fact that they're on course to rack up $70 billion of debt, the fact that AB has already seen five credit downgrades, etc.), but also don't want to vote for a hard-right Kenney-led party. In other words, the appetite seems to be there for a fiscally conservative, socially progressive party.


On a related note, how are the Liberals doing? Basically moribund or do they have serious plans for a comeback attempt in 2019?

The AB Liberals just wrapped up a leadership race, where former ALP Executive Vice President David Khan beat former LPC candidate (and provincial PC member until Kenney won) Kerry Cundal, 54% to 46%. Cundal was running on a platform of centrist unity, while Khan wants to keep the ALP alive as a distinct party. Khan's planning on running candidates in all 87 ridings in 2019, but I personally don't see the ALP as being in a good position strategically. They only have around 2,000 members (almost half of whom essentially voted to unite-the-centre), are only polling at around 5%, and are likely looking at their only MLA retiring at the next election.

I can certainly appreciate the 'stocker shock' at the size of the deficits under the NDP government.  But, I think this new 'centrist' party, if it emerges, needs to be made to deal in specifics.  If it wants to cut spending, they need to detail precisely what spending cuts they would make.  If they reply to a question on this with 'reduce waste and make efficiencies' they should not be regarded as a serious political party.

The Alberta Party, which appears to be the likely vehicle for centrist unity, has been the only opposition party to release shadow budgets each year since the NDP got in. Here is their 2017 shadow budget. (http://www.albertaparty.ca/2017abpartycaucusshadowbudget)

The Alberta Party plan operating expense by ministry are on page 22.  It's basically a 'flexible freeze' but it calls for a nearly $100 million cut in spending on seniors and housing, a small cut in health spending and a freeze on spending for children's services.  It's honest as far as it goes, but those are obviously things the NDP would focus on.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 28, 2017, 05:13:07 AM
I don't think this has been mentioned before, Andrew Scheer named Alain Rayes, M.P for Richmond-Arthabaska as his Quebec Lieutenant.  Not a surprise that the higher profile Gerard Deltell was passed over given that he endorsed, I believe, Erin O'Toole, but not sure were this leaves Maxime Bernier.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/alain-rayes-andrew-scheer-quebec-1.4177190


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on June 28, 2017, 03:14:59 PM
The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on June 28, 2017, 03:16:07 PM
The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.
You mean the hilariously corrupt one?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on June 28, 2017, 11:12:52 PM
The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.
You mean the hilariously corrupt one?
I believe I was rather clearly referring to her ideology.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 30, 2017, 03:28:11 PM
Hadfield could be the next GG. (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-indigenous-candidates-likely-to-be-overlooked-in-choice-of-next-governor-general/wcm/aab4a600-1595-45d5-afa8-1e46a8ea7d9b)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 30, 2017, 06:49:46 PM
Steven Fletcher expelled from Manitoba P.C caucus
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/steven-fletcher-expelled-from-caucus-1.4185892


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on June 30, 2017, 11:03:48 PM
Happy Dominion Day. :)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: warandwar on July 01, 2017, 02:43:11 AM
The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.
You mean the hilariously corrupt one?
I believe I was rather clearly referring to her ideology.
Isn't her ideology corruption, though?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on July 01, 2017, 02:48:55 AM
The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.
You mean the hilariously corrupt one?
I believe I was rather clearly referring to her ideology.
Isn't her ideology corruption, though?

Well, she had a faction backing her. The centrist one.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: President Punxsutawney Phil on July 01, 2017, 03:13:29 AM
The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.
You mean the hilariously corrupt one?
I believe I was rather clearly referring to her ideology.
Isn't her ideology corruption, though?

Well, she had a faction backing her. The centrist one.
In general it is disingenuous to claim her ideology was 'corruption', because corruption knows no one political ideology.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 01, 2017, 03:51:30 AM
The Alberta Party, if it wants to be seriously effective, needs to ally with the Liberals and the Redford wing of the Progressive Conservatives.
You mean the hilariously corrupt one?
I believe I was rather clearly referring to her ideology.
Isn't her ideology corruption, though?

Well, she had a faction backing her. The centrist one.
In general it is disingenuous to claim her ideology was 'corruption', because corruption knows no one political ideology.

She was no more or less corrupt than Ralph Klein.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 02, 2017, 03:07:55 PM
Hadfield could be the next GG. (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-indigenous-candidates-likely-to-be-overlooked-in-choice-of-next-governor-general/wcm/aab4a600-1595-45d5-afa8-1e46a8ea7d9b)

Not French. GGs alternate between Anglos and Francos, and I suspect there is also a male, male, female, female tradition emerging as well (has been that way since Jeanne Sauve). So, the next GG will likely be a Francophone man. You up for it, RB?

(ETA: The article mentions the French / English tradition, but fails to mention why Trudeau would abandon it, saying only "The belief however is the new governor-general need not be francophone this time". Umm, ok, why?? )


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on July 02, 2017, 05:14:10 PM
Hadfield could be the next GG. (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-indigenous-candidates-likely-to-be-overlooked-in-choice-of-next-governor-general/wcm/aab4a600-1595-45d5-afa8-1e46a8ea7d9b)

Not French. GGs alternate between Anglos and Francos, and I suspect there is also a male, male, female, female tradition emerging as well (has been that way since Jeanne Sauve). So, the next GG will likely be a Francophone man. You up for it, RB?

(ETA: The article mentions the French / English tradition, but fails to mention why Trudeau would abandon it, saying only "The belief however is the new governor-general need not be francophone this time". Umm, ok, why?? )

I think it's implied Hadfield would be too big to pass on and than it's gravita will allow him to pass it easily (even francophones people like him). He can also says he cannot wait 15 years to appoint him (next male anglophone), as he would be old.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 03, 2017, 01:13:50 AM
Hadfield could be the next GG. (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-indigenous-candidates-likely-to-be-overlooked-in-choice-of-next-governor-general/wcm/aab4a600-1595-45d5-afa8-1e46a8ea7d9b)

Not French. GGs alternate between Anglos and Francos, and I suspect there is also a male, male, female, female tradition emerging as well (has been that way since Jeanne Sauve). So, the next GG will likely be a Francophone man. You up for it, RB?

(ETA: The article mentions the French / English tradition, but fails to mention why Trudeau would abandon it, saying only "The belief however is the new governor-general need not be francophone this time". Umm, ok, why?? )

I think it's implied Hadfield would be too big to pass on and than it's gravita will allow him to pass it easily (even francophones people like him). He can also says he cannot wait 15 years to appoint him (next male anglophone), as he would be old.

Hmmm. He would be an awesome choice of course. Perhaps too awesome.  Would Trudeau want to pick someone who would steal his stardom? :D (I guess he's thinking the choice would just enhance his own popularity).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lord Halifax on July 03, 2017, 05:16:12 AM
They should go with an Indigenous candidate as planned - there is at least three good choices.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 04, 2017, 08:00:55 AM
Khadr's getting an apology & $10M compensation. (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-to-offer-omar-khadr-apology-compensation-package/article35538745/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 06, 2017, 04:08:01 AM
Peterson eyeing Ambrose's seat. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/peterson-edmonton-ambrose-riding-1.4190861)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 07, 2017, 04:01:59 PM
Albertan conservatives eyeing Plan B if Wildrose sinks merger. (http://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/graham-thomson-pc-and-wildrose-parties-eye-plan-b-should-merger-vote-fall-narrowly-short)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on July 08, 2017, 10:34:44 AM
The NDP-Québec will choose a permanent leader January 21 2018 to replace interim leader Pierre Ducasse.

Race starts September 1st. Nomination period ends October 20.

It plans to set up regional associations in Quebec City, Chaudière-Appalaches, Montérégie and Outaouais.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/ndp-quebec-to-elect-new-leader-in-january (http://montrealgazette.com/news/ndp-quebec-to-elect-new-leader-in-january)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on July 08, 2017, 03:20:16 PM
Regarding the proposed Alberta conservative merger: Some Wildrosers are preparing to create a new party if the deal goes through (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/wildrose-members-step-up-opposition-to-unity-deal-with-pcs), and Starke seems (IMO) to be hinting at going independent and not joining the UCP if the deal is approved (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/former-leadership-hopeful-richard-starke-not-sold-on-pcwildrose-unity-plan)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 09, 2017, 05:58:11 AM
Regarding the proposed Alberta conservative merger: Some Wildrosers are preparing to create a new party if the deal goes through (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/wildrose-members-step-up-opposition-to-unity-deal-with-pcs), and Starke seems (IMO) to be hinting at going independent and not joining the UCP if the deal is approved (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/former-leadership-hopeful-richard-starke-not-sold-on-pcwildrose-unity-plan)

A couple questions for Njall or anyone else who cares to comment:

1) The 2004 federal election shows us that predicting results won't be as simple as 2015 PC vote + 2015 Wildrose vote. The Tories lost 15-20 seats they "should" have won based on the 2000 results. Assuming all breakaway third parties, indy runs are flops, how much of the combined conservative vote do you think the NDP/Liberals/Alberta Party will be able to pick off? What does that mean in seats?

2) Are Wildrose hardliners mostly libertarians, socons or populists? What are the odds that they are able to get a meaningful % of the vote?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on July 09, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Regarding the proposed Alberta conservative merger: Some Wildrosers are preparing to create a new party if the deal goes through (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/wildrose-members-step-up-opposition-to-unity-deal-with-pcs), and Starke seems (IMO) to be hinting at going independent and not joining the UCP if the deal is approved (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/former-leadership-hopeful-richard-starke-not-sold-on-pcwildrose-unity-plan)

A couple questions for Njall or anyone else who cares to comment:

1) The 2004 federal election shows us that predicting results won't be as simple as 2015 PC vote + 2015 Wildrose vote. The Tories lost 15-20 seats they "should" have won based on the 2000 results. Assuming all breakaway third parties, indy runs are flops, how much of the combined conservative vote do you think the NDP/Liberals/Alberta Party will be able to pick off? What does that mean in seats?

2) Are Wildrose hardliners mostly libertarians, socons or populists? What are the odds that they are able to get a meaningful % of the vote?

1) This question is very difficult to answer for a number of reasons, including not knowing what the price of oil (and therefore the budget and employment situations) will be in 2019, and not knowing who the leader of the UCP will be. That said, I'll take a stab at it. The 2012 and 2015 elections showed that Albertans saw substantive differences between the PCs and WRP, so it's essentially assured that some of their bases will drop off. The Liberals are essentially dead-in-the-water now, so if that stays the same in 2019, I doubt many voters will gravitate there. I also have a hard time seeing the NDP getting a net gain in votes given how poorly they've been polling, and how the ongoing rhetoric from opposition parties and in the media seems to be almost solely blaming the NDP for the province's current economic and financial situation. So that would leave the Alberta Party as the logical recipient of former conservative voters who don't want to support the UCP, especially since the ABP has taken a more clearly fiscally conservative tack since the last election.

In terms of seats, I imagine that gravitation towards the ABP from former conservative voters would probably have more of an effect of preserving some marginal NDP seats than gaining seats for the ABP. Now, we don't know what the map will look like yet, but take the current riding of Calgary-Currie, in inner(-ish) city Calgary, for example: the NDP won there with just under 40% of the vote, and the combined PC+WRP vote was nearly 45%. Given the close margin and the demographics of the riding, I could definitely see a conservative move to the ABP helping the NDP win here again.

I don't know how many voters province wide would move from conservative to ABP, mind you. But I remember seeing an interesting poll from last year that asked about political spectrum identification, amongst other things. In that poll, without excluding those who were unsure (roughly a quarter of respondents), 27% of PC and 11% of WRP voters self-identified as centrists, while a further 9% of PC and 1% of WRP voters self-identified as centre-left. Assuming for a moment that those poll results were accurate, even without considering centre-right voters uncomfortable with a UCP, they suggest that around a third of PC voter and a tenth of WRP voters would be open to migrating to more of a centrist party.


2) From what I can tell, the WRP hardline would likely lean more towards socons and populists. Historically, when right-wing splinter parties in Alberta have gained some steam they've ended up polling between 5% and 12% provincially. This would likely have a spoiler effect for the UCP more than actual success for the hypothetical party. In 2004, for example, the upstart Alberta Alliance got 8.7% of the vote province-wide. They only won 1 seat, but there's a case to be made that they enabled PC losses in up to 7 other seats.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 09, 2017, 07:30:46 PM
Very interesting thanks.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 09, 2017, 11:03:07 PM
Even with a united conservative party, the right wing in Alberta will inevitably splinter. Even if it takes another 30 years.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 12, 2017, 03:51:38 PM
CP says new GG announcement tomorrow probably a Francophone.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 12, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
It's Julie Payette. So, at least they got the profession correct.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 13, 2017, 12:28:33 AM
It's Julie Payette. So, at least they got the profession correct.

Sorry, maybe I'm uninformed lol, but who's the "they" you're referring to??


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 13, 2017, 09:12:35 AM
It's Julie Payette. So, at least they got the profession correct.

Sorry, maybe I'm uninformed lol, but who's the "they" you're referring to??

John Ivison specifically. RB posted an article on the last page by him claiming Chris Hadfield was going to be the next GG.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 13, 2017, 10:45:24 AM
It's Julie Payette. So, at least they got the profession correct.

Sorry, maybe I'm uninformed lol, but who's the "they" you're referring to??

John Ivison specifically. RB posted an article on the last page by him claiming Chris Hadfield was going to be the next GG.

Ah, okie lolol, thanks


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 13, 2017, 12:31:14 PM
It's Julie Payette. So, at least they got the profession correct.

Sorry, maybe I'm uninformed lol, but who's the "they" you're referring to??

John Ivison specifically. RB posted an article on the last page by him claiming Chris Hadfield was going to be the next GG.

John Ivison can be thoughtful and fair minded, but, at the end of the day he is a conservative partisan hack.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 14, 2017, 10:57:42 AM
Jean will run as the centrist candidate? Fits my province's precedent. (http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/07/13/wildrose-leader-brian-jean-believes-the-days-of-hard-right-governments-in-alberta-are-over)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on July 14, 2017, 01:07:59 PM
Jean will run as the centrist candidate? Fits my province's precedent. (http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/07/13/wildrose-leader-brian-jean-believes-the-days-of-hard-right-governments-in-alberta-are-over)

Interesting column, but I'm skeptical about Jean running an actual centrist campaign. If he did, it would be a losing strategy, as he'd likely alienate many from what is arguably his base, and his WRP background would make it tougher for a lot of moderates to stomach voting for him.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 14, 2017, 08:37:37 PM
Braid says a Wildrose splinter is quite plausible. For now Red malcontents grouping around AP. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-new-parties-looming-in-opposition-to-united-conservatives)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 14, 2017, 10:53:17 PM
First poll on Federal politics since the Khadr settlement.  From Nanos weekly tracking

Liberals: 40% +3
Conservatives: 33% +3
NDP: 14% -3
Green 6% -?

https://twitter.com/niknanos/status/885921613757255680

This isn't too much of a surprise to me.  

I think:
1.The Liberals have regained some of the 'left wing' credentials by having the courage to settle with Khadr.  This explains the Liberal increase and the NDP decrease (caveat of reading too much into small shifts in support based on any poll let alone a tracking poll.)

2.The Conservatives have firmed up their support, however

While in that one poll 71% of Canadians expressed disapproval with the Khadr settlement, that poll also showed that most Canadians had a more nuanced position (something like 60% also said he should have been tried as a child soldier.)

So, while 71% of Canadians expressed disapproval, it doesn't surprise me that the actual OUTRAGE! over this was from the usual suspects of the 30-33% of conservative Canadians who seem to be OUTRAGED! over nearly everything.  To me, this was also evident from the letters to the editor in newspapers expressing this OUTRAGE! as these letters were pretty much all either idiotic or misinformed, which suggested to me anyway, that they must have been written by conservatives (and Conservatives.)


On the matter of the NDP leadership, I would also suspect that the lower the NDP support is, the more likely Niki Ashton will win the leadership, however, that would also depend on how many left establishment type New Democrats stick with the party and vote in the leadership race (obviously they are all individuals but I would tend to think that union executives including executives of union locals, as well as charity organization managers and executive directors, academics and left leaning professionals would all be less likely to support Niki Ashton.)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on July 18, 2017, 07:34:04 PM
Kenney is unsure if all PC MLAs will join the new UCP caucus (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/kenney-predicts-bumpy-start-within-ranks-of-a-united-conservative-party).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on July 19, 2017, 12:18:50 AM
PC Leadership financial disclosures are out. (http://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/jason-kenney-spent-1-5-million-to-become-alberta-pc-leader) These only cover donations after the official start of the campaign period (so not donations that went to the Unite Alberta PAC), but these numbers show that Kenney spent $1.5 million to win the leadership, while Starke spent just under $200K, and Khan and Nelson spent around $50K each.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 22, 2017, 05:19:23 PM
95% YES. (https://twitter.com/Graham_Journal/status/888884702077046784) Now awaiting Team Kenney.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 22, 2017, 07:39:35 PM
95% YES. End of the beginning. (https://twitter.com/electionatlasCA/status/888920800790810624)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on July 22, 2017, 08:14:00 PM
Suspiciously high. Kenney and Jean probably cooked up numbers.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 22, 2017, 08:43:18 PM
Unification approved by 95.4% of Wildrose members, w/ 24,598 eligible Wildrosers casting a ballot, a voter turnout of 57.7%: 23,466 voted yes & 1,132 voted no.

PCs voted 95% for unification w/ Wildrose, w/ a total of 27,060 PC members voting, equating to 55% of those eligible to cast a ballot. 25,692 voted yes. 1,344 voted no. 24 spoiled their ballots.

It's happening.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 22, 2017, 08:45:49 PM
Kenney seems to think that WR + PC = automatic power.

He was involved in the PC/CA merger in '04. He should know better.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on July 22, 2017, 08:46:52 PM
I don't see Albertans winning there. A mix of Jean far-right ideas and PC corruption.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 22, 2017, 11:27:15 PM
A very sad for Alberta, indeed.

The right will break up again, mark my words. Even if it takes a few decades.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 23, 2017, 06:18:16 AM
A few comments for the folks salty about the merger:

Suspiciously high. Kenney and Jean probably cooked up numbers.

Citation?

Kenney seems to think that WR + PC = automatic power.

He was involved in the PC/CA merger in '04. He should know better.

That's a bit revisionist:

2000 election: Alliance + PC = 37.7%
2003 polls: Alliance + PC = ~28%

2015 election: Wildrose + PC= 52.0%
2017 polls: Wildrose + PC = ~66%

Before Adscam broke, Unite the Right was all about being avoiding being slaughtered by the Liberals. UCP would have to choke way worse than the '04 Tories did to lose the next election.

The right will break up again, mark my words. Even if it takes a few decades.

The first sentence is an interesting prediction. The second sentence is like saying water is wet :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 23, 2017, 10:34:38 AM
A few comments for the folks salty about the merger:


The right will break up again, mark my words. Even if it takes a few decades.

The first sentence is an interesting prediction. The second sentence is like saying water is wet :P

True. Just trying to console myself. It will probably take a few terms in power for there to be enough anger for a new party.

I must say, the ability for conservatives to unite and find common ground is amazing. I wish the left could do the same.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 23, 2017, 09:17:30 PM
A few comments for the folks salty about the merger:

Kenney seems to think that WR + PC = automatic power.

He was involved in the PC/CA merger in '04. He should know better.

That's a bit revisionist:

2000 election: Alliance + PC = 37.7%
2003 polls: Alliance + PC = ~28%

2015 election: Wildrose + PC= 52.0%
2017 polls: Wildrose + PC = ~66%

Before Adscam broke, Unite the Right was all about being avoiding being slaughtered by the Liberals. UCP would have to choke way worse than the '04 Tories did to lose the next election.

Yeah, true. Even if similar numbers abandon the new merged party (about 20%), that's still enough to stay even w/ the NDP at about 40-45%. That's when all that NDP vote locked up in Edmonton becomes a problem, & that's just assuming they stay the same. The UCP's on much better footing, w/out a shadow of a doubt.

To be fair, though: even though the UCP's goal is to replicate provincially what Harper & MacKay did in '03 when their parties merged to form the Conservatives, while their plan worked out, the newly formed party wasn't ready for the '04 election, allowing Martin's Liberals to get re-elected. It took Harper 2 more years for his party to win a minority gov't. So just based on that playbook, it illustrates some of the difficulties.

All that can be said is that we shall see what happens to the UCP come 2019 lol


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 24, 2017, 08:24:33 AM
Party was barely ready, but a series of tactical errors cost Harper that election. Also cost him majorities in '06/'08.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on July 24, 2017, 11:02:45 AM
As he had previously hinted, Vermilion-Lloydminster MLA Richard Starke will not be joining the UCP caucus. (https://www.facebook.com/StarkeRichard/posts/1379716408811300)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on July 24, 2017, 08:05:14 PM
Party was barely ready, but a series of tactical errors cost Harper that election. Also cost him majorities in '06/'08.

Why did they give Harper a second chance after that humiliating 2004 defeat? Mulclair got turfed out after one loss, as did Dion,and Ignatieff.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 24, 2017, 08:49:28 PM
Party was barely ready, but a series of tactical errors cost Harper that election. Also cost him majorities in '06/'08.

Why did they give Harper a second chance after that humiliating 2004 defeat? Mulclair got turfed out after one loss, as did Dion,and Ignatieff.

B/c they still credited him w/ having been able to bring the PC Party & Alliance together (however precariously) in a short time to fight a (relatively) close election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 27, 2017, 05:11:57 AM
A few comments for the folks salty about the merger:


The right will break up again, mark my words. Even if it takes a few decades.

The first sentence is an interesting prediction. The second sentence is like saying water is wet :P

True. Just trying to console myself. It will probably take a few terms in power for there to be enough anger for a new party.

I must say, the ability for conservatives to unite and find common ground is amazing. I wish the left could do the same.

Well to be fair, ~ 2/3 of the population is opposed to our politics in a way that's quite different from Liberal/NDP fights. It forces a sort of ecumenism of the trenches.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: JoeyOCanada on July 28, 2017, 01:42:52 PM
Any hot takes on the Trudeau Rolling Stone cover/"Why can't he be our President" lolness?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 28, 2017, 02:46:24 PM
Any hot takes on the Trudeau Rolling Stone cover/"Why can't he be our President" lolness?

horribly cringeworthy. My favourite part is when they called the RCMP the "Royal Canadian Mountain Police"


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 28, 2017, 07:06:53 PM
Any hot takes on the Trudeau Rolling Stone cover/"Why can't he be our President" lolness?

horribly cringeworthy. My favourite part is when they called the RCMP the "Royal Canadian Mountain Police"

Oh FFS


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 28, 2017, 07:18:50 PM
What do people think of Don Pittis? I can't decide if I like or dislike him.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on July 28, 2017, 07:38:26 PM
Any hot takes on the Trudeau Rolling Stone cover/"Why can't he be our President" lolness?

horribly cringeworthy. My favourite part is when they called the RCMP the "Royal Canadian Mountain Police"

Oh FFS

The Situation back in the Jersey Shore days bragged that he 'brought home a girl from Canadia'.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on July 30, 2017, 04:57:29 PM
Any hot takes on the Trudeau Rolling Stone cover/"Why can't he be our President" lolness?

horribly cringeworthy. My favourite part is when they called the RCMP the "Royal Canadian Mountain Police"

Oh FFS

The Situation back in the Jersey Shore days bragged that he 'brought home a girl from Canadia'.

Mike and Justin probably have comparable IQs.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 31, 2017, 07:50:09 PM
Mainstreet-ON: (http://www.qpbriefing.com/2017/07/31/half-of-torontonians-would-vote-pc-in-the-next-election-new-poll-suggests/) 50/31/15... in 416! Tories even lead in the downtown core. Wonder what the seat count looks like.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 31, 2017, 11:35:36 PM
Any hot takes on the Trudeau Rolling Stone cover/"Why can't he be our President" lolness?

horribly cringeworthy. My favourite part is when they called the RCMP the "Royal Canadian Mountain Police"

Oh FFS

The Situation back in the Jersey Shore days bragged that he 'brought home a girl from Canadia'.

Mike and Justin probably have comparable IQs.

I'd take Prime Minister Justin Trudeau over Scheer Stupidity any day.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on August 01, 2017, 01:26:09 PM
Mainstreet Alberta Provincial Poll: (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/conservative-summer-love/)

UCP numbers are compared to previous WRP+PC numbers.

Topline numbers (change from April 2017):
UCP: 57% (-9)
NDP: 29% (+5)
AP: 9% (+4)
ALP: 4% (-1)

Including Undecideds (change from April 2017):
UCP: 43% (-14)
NDP: 21% (no change)
AP: 7% (+3)
ALP: 3% (-1)
Undecided: 27% (+12)

Also of note, the Alberta party is now polling at double digits (10% including undecideds and 14% decided and leaning) in Calgary. As well, 53% of respondents aged 18-34, including undecideds (and 67% decided and leaning) are supposedly supporting the UCP. I seriously doubt we'd actually see that latter result in an election though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 02, 2017, 10:06:58 AM
Caroline Mulroney will be the next MPP for York-Simcoe.  (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/08/02/caroline-mulroney-to-seek-tory-nomination-in-york-simcoe.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 02, 2017, 10:23:27 AM
Caroline Mulroney will be the next MPP for York-Simcoe.  (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/08/02/caroline-mulroney-to-seek-tory-nomination-in-york-simcoe.html)

Now there's a prediction I take no issue with ;) (providing that she actually wins the nomination)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on August 02, 2017, 11:45:13 AM
Mainstreet-ON: (http://www.qpbriefing.com/2017/07/31/half-of-torontonians-would-vote-pc-in-the-next-election-new-poll-suggests/) 50/31/15... in 416! Tories even lead in the downtown core. Wonder what the seat count looks like.

JFC. She's so friggin' selfish. For the sake of the future of the province, please resign.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 03, 2017, 04:16:10 AM
Mainstreet-ON: (http://www.qpbriefing.com/2017/07/31/half-of-torontonians-would-vote-pc-in-the-next-election-new-poll-suggests/) 50/31/15... in 416! Tories even lead in the downtown core. Wonder what the seat count looks like.

JFC. She's so friggin' selfish. For the sake of the future of the province, please resign.

Wouldn't it be more selfish to make some poor Liberal play Kim Campbell?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 10, 2017, 11:09:21 AM
Brad Wall is retiring from politics.  (https://twitter.com/PremierBradWall/status/895676119940071425)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 10, 2017, 10:25:57 PM
At the moment it seems progressive politics really dominates the country.  Asides from Manitoba and Saskatchewan and perhaps Quebec, it is mostly centre-left parties in power.  Do you think this is a blip or part of a larger trend.  The polls suggest Ontario and Alberta will swing rightward next provincial election but some are skeptical and with the BC NDP just forming government albeit narrowly losing the popular vote and seat count it is anyone's guess what happens there.  Likewise neither Brad Wall (who is retiring) or Brian Pallister seem massively popular, but not massively unpopular either so possible either but more likely in Saskatchewan than Manitoba they swing leftward next election.  Federal is still over 2 years away, but unless Trudeau does something really stupid or Andrew Scheer really catches fire in the campaign I suspect the Liberals will get back in, just a question if it is a majority or minority (note they only need to lose 15 seats to lose their majority so a very small swing to either NDP or Tories would do this).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 11, 2017, 05:05:58 AM
At the moment it seems progressive politics really dominates the country.  Asides from Manitoba and Saskatchewan and perhaps Quebec, it is mostly centre-left parties in power.  Do you think this is a blip or part of a larger trend.  The polls suggest Ontario and Alberta will swing rightward next provincial election but some are skeptical and with the BC NDP just forming government albeit narrowly losing the popular vote and seat count it is anyone's guess what happens there.  Likewise neither Brad Wall (who is retiring) or Brian Pallister seem massively popular, but not massively unpopular either so possible either but more likely in Saskatchewan than Manitoba they swing leftward next election.  Federal is still over 2 years away, but unless Trudeau does something really stupid or Andrew Scheer really catches fire in the campaign I suspect the Liberals will get back in, just a question if it is a majority or minority (note they only need to lose 15 seats to lose their majority so a very small swing to either NDP or Tories would do this).

I agree that the country as a whole has moved left compared to ten years ago, but the provincial results are more a function of the Trudeau government being < two years old. Provincial governments tend to go the opposite of federal governments over time. Over half the provincial governments were governed by the right when Harper came to power, but that dwindled to just BC and SK by the time Trudeau won. Another good example is the Liberals controlling zero provincial governments from 1978-1985, and then provincially winning basically as soon as the Tories got power federally. I expect the Tories will be doing a lot better provincially in five years.

Also, this is a minor quibble, but the Nova Scotia Liberals have run to the right of the Tories the past two elections, so I guess you could call them the "conservative" party right now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 11, 2017, 12:43:01 PM
At the moment it seems progressive politics really dominates the country.  Asides from Manitoba and Saskatchewan and perhaps Quebec, it is mostly centre-left parties in power.  Do you think this is a blip or part of a larger trend.  The polls suggest Ontario and Alberta will swing rightward next provincial election but some are skeptical and with the BC NDP just forming government albeit narrowly losing the popular vote and seat count it is anyone's guess what happens there.  Likewise neither Brad Wall (who is retiring) or Brian Pallister seem massively popular, but not massively unpopular either so possible either but more likely in Saskatchewan than Manitoba they swing leftward next election.  Federal is still over 2 years away, but unless Trudeau does something really stupid or Andrew Scheer really catches fire in the campaign I suspect the Liberals will get back in, just a question if it is a majority or minority (note they only need to lose 15 seats to lose their majority so a very small swing to either NDP or Tories would do this).

I agree that the country as a whole has moved left compared to ten years ago, but the provincial results are more a function of the Trudeau government being < two years old. Provincial governments tend to go the opposite of federal governments over time. Over half the provincial governments were governed by the right when Harper came to power, but that dwindled to just BC and SK by the time Trudeau won. Another good example is the Liberals controlling zero provincial governments from 1978-1985, and then provincially winning basically as soon as the Tories got power federally. I expect the Tories will be doing a lot better provincially in five years.

Also, this is a minor quibble, but the Nova Scotia Liberals have run to the right of the Tories the past two elections, so I guess you could call them the "conservative" party right now.

That is generally true and I guess using this history that would probably suggest Ontario and Alberta should swing rightward next provincial election and perhaps one or two of the Atlantic provinces will as well.  Still since Trudeau has been elected its been a mixed bag.  Yes Manitoba swung rightward, but Newfoundland, Yukon, and BC all dumped centre-right govenrments since although they didn't do as poorly as earlier polls suggested.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 11, 2017, 12:51:10 PM
Here in Quebec, we have a close race between 2 centre-right parties.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 11, 2017, 01:48:00 PM
Here in Quebec, we have a close race between 2 centre-right parties.

True enough, Quebec does seem to be the one place of all asides from Saskatchewan and Manitoba where the right is doing well.  Perhaps being in more dire straits financially is one reason another is unlike much of English Canada the right there is pretty tame, you don't have the strong reactionary right element that you see in many of the parties on the right west of the Ottawa River which I think scares some voters.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on August 12, 2017, 06:57:26 AM
I think more to the point, it's a successful time for the Liberal brand rather than "progressive politics". After all, most of the Atlantic Canada liberals are hardly particularly progressive.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 12, 2017, 07:20:43 AM
I think more to the point, it's a successful time for the Liberal brand rather than "progressive politics". After all, most of the Atlantic Canada liberals are hardly particularly progressive.

Atlantic Canadian Liberals are funny. Federally, they've found great success as the party of Pogey, but they're practically Tories provincially.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 12, 2017, 07:34:38 AM
Looking through old results, I noticed that the Greens put up great results federally and provincially in Dufferin-Caledon and Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound in the mid 2000's. What was going there? Rural Ontario is not the sort of place where you'd think the Greens would do well.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on August 12, 2017, 10:30:24 AM
Looking through old results, I noticed that the Greens put up great results federally and provincially in Dufferin-Caledon and Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound in the mid 2000's. What was going there? Rural Ontario is not the sort of place where you'd think the Greens would do well.

There is a bit of a hippy scene in this part of the province, (or post-hippy, like organic farming, "artisanal" shops, you know what I mean), even if it's a minority under the surface of typical rural conservatism. Mind you, the way the Greens briefly became the "strategic" progressive party in Bruce-Grey-Owen-Sound was still kind of weird and I don't entirely understand it; the area isn't that green.

A lot of it has to do with the hilly terrain along the Niagara escarpment which is pretty for tourists but not that great for commercial farming: you can see the idea on a topographic map:

()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on August 12, 2017, 02:02:32 PM
Looking through old results, I noticed that the Greens put up great results federally and provincially in Dufferin-Caledon and Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound in the mid 2000's. What was going there? Rural Ontario is not the sort of place where you'd think the Greens would do well.

There is a bit of a hippy scene in this part of the province, (or post-hippy, like organic farming, "artisanal" shops, you know what I mean), even if it's a minority under the surface of typical rural conservatism. Mind you, the way the Greens briefly became the "strategic" progressive party in Bruce-Grey-Owen-Sound was still kind of weird and I don't entirely understand it; the area isn't that green.

A lot of it has to do with the hilly terrain along the Niagara escarpment which is pretty for tourists but not that great for commercial farming: you can see the idea on a topographic map:

()

Walkerton is in that area, so running on water protection was popular with voters.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 12, 2017, 11:55:04 PM
I think more to the point, it's a successful time for the Liberal brand rather than "progressive politics". After all, most of the Atlantic Canada liberals are hardly particularly progressive.

I guess I was thinking on a population weighted basis.  Of the big four provinces which are over 80% of the population, 3 of the 4 (Quebec being the exception) have progressive governments as is our federal government.  Compared to recent governments and in comparison to governments elsewhere in the world Horgan, Notley, Wynne, and Trudeau while not Corbyn type left wing definitely sit to the left of most leaders we've had since the mid 90s and most OECD leaders.  Now to be fair in continental Europe most are grand coalitions so cross county comparisons are a bit difficult and although Trudeau is often referred to as one of the more progressive leaders on earth at the moment elsewhere in the world it could perhaps be circumstance in his case, otherwise if he were leader in just about any other Western country its quite possible he would win and likewise if Canada had the same leaders as you do in the upcoming German election or recent British election Merkel would likely win and May probably although not for certain would beat Corbyn in Canada but all speculation.  I also though think when you look at each one there is a definite trend to the left.  Yes maybe it is waning a bit since 2015 as in the provincial elections since the right has done a bit better, either winning (in Manitoba and Saskatchewan or coming reasonably close in Yukon, BC, and Nova Scotia and yes I understand some would argue in fact the NS Liberals are more to the right of the Nova Scotia PCs so fair point).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 15, 2017, 11:35:28 AM
Would May beat Corbyn in Canada? We did a poll on this in April:

()

Of course, this was before the last minute swing to Labour.

I also can confirm Merkel is very popular in Canada. We did another poll a few years ago and she was basically the most popular world leader at the time (moreso than even Harper!).

Personally, I wouldn't put Trudeau in the same discussion as Wynne, Notley and Horgan. To be a centre-left politician, you have to actually do progressive things, not just say them.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 15, 2017, 01:32:45 PM
Would May beat Corbyn in Canada? We did a poll on this in April:

()

Of course, this was before the last minute swing to Labour.

I also can confirm Merkel is very popular in Canada. We did another poll a few years ago and she was basically the most popular world leader at the time (moreso than even Harper!).

Personally, I wouldn't put Trudeau in the same discussion as Wynne, Notley and Horgan. To be a centre-left politician, you have to actually do progressive things, not just say them.

While a bit off topic, has your firm done or will be doing polling in Alberta post merger as well as the upcoming Ontario election.  In the Election predictions site I gave mine so would be interested if that is similar to what your numbers show or not.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 18, 2017, 05:13:37 PM
Gonna be a busy fall. (http://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/the-next-ontario/three-legislative-loose-ends-trudeau-needs-to-tie-off-asap)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 24, 2017, 08:02:37 AM
Judy Foote is resigning from Cabinet, will quit politics by year's end. O'Regan (one of my favourite Grits) will replace her in Cabinet, unclear whether he'll take Public Works or a whole mini-shuffle to maintain gender balance. (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberal-mp-seamus-oregan-seen-moving-to-cabinet-to-replace-judy-foote/article36076067/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 24, 2017, 02:44:45 PM
Would May beat Corbyn in Canada? We did a poll on this in April:

()

Of course, this was before the last minute swing to Labour.

I also can confirm Merkel is very popular in Canada. We did another poll a few years ago and she was basically the most popular world leader at the time (moreso than even Harper!).

Personally, I wouldn't put Trudeau in the same discussion as Wynne, Notley and Horgan. To be a centre-left politician, you have to actually do progressive things, not just say them.

While a bit off topic, has your firm done or will be doing polling in Alberta post merger as well as the upcoming Ontario election.  In the Election predictions site I gave mine so would be interested if that is similar to what your numbers show or not.

We'll be doing plenty of polling, I'm sure. What election prediction site are you referring to?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 24, 2017, 02:46:23 PM
I am referring to Election predictions on this site.  https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=250768.0


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 24, 2017, 05:11:57 PM
I am referring to Election predictions on this site.  https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=250768.0

Oh, I didn't see that! Thanks.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 26, 2017, 09:06:56 AM
Leger (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/506594/sondage-leger-oui-a-un-acces-plus-facile-aux-ecoles-anglaises) poll on French Language Charter & horse races: Francophones want signage & workplace rules tightened & English CEGEP access loosened. Generation gap unsurprising, though usual warning about tiny sample sizes. Provincial: (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/506608/un-sondage-confirme-la-caq-comme-alternative-en-gestation) 32/28/22/12. Federal: 43/19/16/15. Gonna be a fun leadership review for Lisée this fall, though Cloutier or Hivon wouldn't be doing much better IMO.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 26, 2017, 03:42:33 PM
Leger (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/506594/sondage-leger-oui-a-un-acces-plus-facile-aux-ecoles-anglaises) poll on French Language Charter & horse races: Francophones want signage & workplace rules tightened & English CEGEP access loosened. Generation gap unsurprising, though usual warning about tiny sample sizes. Provincial: (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/506608/un-sondage-confirme-la-caq-comme-alternative-en-gestation) 32/28/22/12. Federal: 43/19/16/15. Gonna be a fun leadership review for Lisée this fall, though Cloutier or Hivon wouldn't be doing much better IMO.

I should start a thread for the Quebec election, but at this point since the Quebec Liberals are heavily skewed to non-Francophones, do you think there is a risk of them winning the popular vote but losing in seats.  Also is the high CAQ numbers just a flash in the pan or do you think they could actually win next year?

Federal numbers not surprising and in fact if an election were held today I suspect you would see similar seat counts for the Liberals with them losing around 20 seats in English Canada (mostly Ontario) while picking up 20 seats in Quebec.  Off course a lot can happen in the next two years but if Trudeau stays well ahead in Quebec he should win in 2019 even if he takes a hit in English Canada.  After all in 1972, 1974, and 1980, the PCs won more seats in English Canada than the Liberals although only a plurality in 1974 and 1980 but he won due to nearly sweeping Quebec, so perhaps the Liberals are re-asserting their dominance of Quebec.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 26, 2017, 04:01:27 PM
Based on the recent merger of the PCs and Wildrose, do you guys believe the NDP still has a chance in 2019 or are they done?  I think the odds of the NDP winning again are extremely low, but I think if everything falls into place they might be able to squeeze out a narrow win although in popular vote I am near certain the UCP will win it however due to voter efficiency the NDP could lose by as much as 5% and still win more seats.  By regions I see the following

Rest of Alberta - Massively UCP and asides from the two Lethbridge ridings see a near sweep here.  In many ridings the UCP will likely top 70% and even 80% in some cases

Calgary - Strong advantage UCP and the NDP will probably only hold a few central ridings, but if the UCP is too extreme and the NDP get a strong uptick they may hold the majority of seats.  Also Alberta Party is strongest here so if they do well whom do they hurt more, former Red Tories who find the new UCP too right wing or former NDP voters who are unhappy with the NDP but cannot stomach the UCP.

Edmonton - Should stay largely NDP, the question is more do they sweep Edmonton or just win the majority of seats here.

I think if Brian Jean is chosen as leader the party will do better in Edmonton than with Jason Kenney.

Also 59.5% voted Conservative federally and I suspect the overwhelming majority from this group will support the UCP although maybe not all.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 26, 2017, 04:22:27 PM
I could see PV happening but it didn't in 2012 (if it did, <1% like 90s & 2012), when CAQ also was projected to do better than they actually did. CAQ minority is possible but I don't see that as a long-term thing anymore than ADQ in 2007. Legault doesn't have any obvious successor and we're in Year 6 of 2011's promised 10-year commitment. Disagree on English Canada.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 26, 2017, 04:35:41 PM
I could see PV happening but it didn't in 2012 (if it did, <1% like 90s & 2012), when CAQ also was projected to do better than they actually did. CAQ minority is possible but I don't see that as a long-term thing anymore than ADQ in 2007. Legault doesn't have any obvious successor and we're in Year 6 of 2011's promised 10-year commitment. Disagree on English Canada.

Interesting.  On English Canada you think the Liberals will gain seats as while I could see them holding what they have now, they are pretty close to their ceiling.  Not suggesting they will fall behind the Tories although even if they did that doesn't mean they would lose necessarily.  Eric Grenier using most of the polls shows the Tories gaining in Ontario although still finishing behind the Liberals (much of that might be provincial spillover due to unpopularity of the Wynne government) while Atlantic Canada going mostly Liberal with a few Conservative and NDP seats but not many.  I do think though the Liberals would gain seats in Quebec federally.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 27, 2017, 03:07:09 PM
Grit MP Darshan King will be expelled from caucus this week. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2017/08/27/alberta-liberal-mp-kang-expected-booted-liberal-caucus-house-sexual-harassment-investigation-report/117286#cdnpoli)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on August 28, 2017, 01:19:59 AM
Grit MP Darshan King will be expelled from caucus this week. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2017/08/27/alberta-liberal-mp-kang-expected-booted-liberal-caucus-house-sexual-harassment-investigation-report/117286#cdnpoli)

This will be a blow to the Liberals in Northeast Calgary. Kang has, or at least had, a lot of personal popularity in that part of the city, with his 2008 provincial and 2015 federal wins both breaking long conservative streaks in his seats.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 28, 2017, 02:03:24 AM
Grit MP Darshan King will be expelled from caucus this week. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2017/08/27/alberta-liberal-mp-kang-expected-booted-liberal-caucus-house-sexual-harassment-investigation-report/117286#cdnpoli)

This will be a blow to the Liberals in Northeast Calgary. Kang has, or at least had, a lot of personal popularity in that part of the city, with his 2008 provincial and 2015 federal wins both breaking long conservative streaks in his seats.

Considering both Liberal wins were fairly narrow, what is the likelihood of them holding those seats.  On the one hand Calgary is not as conservative as 25 years ago so I could even see the Liberals picking up more, but at the same time it seems the Conservative vote will be a lot more motivated to show up in 2019 than it was in 2015.  Obviously that won't be nearly enough to win nationally, heck the Liberals could still easily win a majority even if they lose both seats in Calgary.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 28, 2017, 09:02:41 AM
O'Regan to Veterans Affairs.
 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/seamus-oregan-veterans-affairs-minister-1.4264773)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 28, 2017, 11:56:07 AM
NB's Ginette Taylor gets Health, BC's Carla Qualtrough gets Public Works, Indigenous Affairs gets split into Indigenous Affairs for Philpott and Crown-Indigenous Relations & Northern Affairs for Bennett. Hehr demoted to Sports/Disabilities, O'Regan also gets Associate Defence.  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/seamus-oregan-veterans-affairs-minister-1.4264773)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on August 29, 2017, 12:55:14 PM
Grit MP Darshan King will be expelled from caucus this week. (http://www.hilltimes.com/2017/08/27/alberta-liberal-mp-kang-expected-booted-liberal-caucus-house-sexual-harassment-investigation-report/117286#cdnpoli)

This will be a blow to the Liberals in Northeast Calgary. Kang has, or at least had, a lot of personal popularity in that part of the city, with his 2008 provincial and 2015 federal wins both breaking long conservative streaks in his seats.

Considering both Liberal wins were fairly narrow, what is the likelihood of them holding those seats.  On the one hand Calgary is not as conservative as 25 years ago so I could even see the Liberals picking up more, but at the same time it seems the Conservative vote will be a lot more motivated to show up in 2019 than it was in 2015.  Obviously that won't be nearly enough to win nationally, heck the Liberals could still easily win a majority even if they lose both seats in Calgary.

Liberal favourability in Calgary Centre will depend in part on how good or bad the Conservative candidate is (Crockatt was not well-liked), but at the moment I would say that Kent Hehr would be favoured for re-election there. He's personally popular in the area, and progressive voters in Calgary tend to flock to a progressive incumbent, no matter the party, where one exists

The Calgary Skyview area is always tough to predict politically. It was historically the part of Calgary where progressive voters federally overwhelmingly showed a preference for the Liberals (whereas in other parts of the city the vote would be more fractured, such as Calgary Centre in 2011 where the LPC, NDP, and GPC shared 40-45% of the vote). But Darshan Kang's personal popularity in the area always seemed to push the Liberals over the top there, both provincially and federally. So, the Liberals winning here again will likely rely on them being able to recruit a local leader within one of the leading ethnic or religious communities.

The outcome in both ridings will also likely be impacted by the results of the 2019 provincial election. If the UCP proves victorious and immediately begins enacting a hard-right agenda, some voters may react by voting against Conservative candidate federally, especially in areas where the Conservatives aren't incumbents.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 30, 2017, 01:23:32 PM
Shadow Cabinet shuffle: Poilievre to Finance, O'Toole to Foreign Affairs, Bernier to ISED. Leitch, Obhrai, Trost, Ritz out. Ritz is expected to announce his retirement soon. (http://ipolitics.ca/2017/08/30/scheer-names-poilievre-finance-critic-leaves-leitch-out-of-shadow-cabinet/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 01, 2017, 02:25:33 PM
We've been granting asylum to gay Chechen refugees for the past 3 months, no longer clandestine. (https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/chechnya-canada-gay-persecution/article36145997/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on September 01, 2017, 03:37:03 PM
We've been granting asylum to gay Chechen refugees for the past 3 months, no longer clandestine. (https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/chechnya-canada-gay-persecution/article36145997/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&)

Good! Our mafia sent people in through this system. I won't say anymore, so as not to reveal sensitive information or out the Canadian Ministers.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 02, 2017, 09:20:32 AM
Doug Ford will seek a rematch against John Tory next year. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/09/01/doug-ford-set-run-against-john-tory-in-mayoral-rematch.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 02, 2017, 10:41:33 AM
Doug Ford will seek a rematch against John Tory next year. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/09/01/doug-ford-set-run-against-john-tory-in-mayoral-rematch.html)

This comes as absolutely no surprise.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 03, 2017, 02:35:40 AM
Doug Ford will seek a rematch against John Tory next year. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/09/01/doug-ford-set-run-against-john-tory-in-mayoral-rematch.html)

This comes as absolutely no surprise.

I heard the Ontario PC's didn't want him.  He would probably help them win Etobicoke North, but we would be a liability in much of the rest of the province.  Also his strong support for Trump and other indiscretions would make him an easy target for OLP attack ads.  I get the impression Brown is trying to play it safe and doesn't want to do anything that might cost the party what should be an easy winneable election.

In terms of mayor, he does have his pockets of strong support but I suspect John Tory will easily beat him as he is reasonably popular.  I also suspect with him running the left won't put up a candidate and will instead throw their support behind John Tory just to keep Doug Ford out of office.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 03, 2017, 06:23:42 PM
Doug Ford will seek a rematch against John Tory next year. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/09/01/doug-ford-set-run-against-john-tory-in-mayoral-rematch.html)

This comes as absolutely no surprise.

I heard the Ontario PC's didn't want him.  He would probably help them win Etobicoke North, but we would be a liability in much of the rest of the province.  Also his strong support for Trump and other indiscretions would make him an easy target for OLP attack ads.  I get the impression Brown is trying to play it safe and doesn't want to do anything that might cost the party what should be an easy winneable election.

In terms of mayor, he does have his pockets of strong support but I suspect John Tory will easily beat him as he is reasonably popular.  I also suspect with him running the left won't put up a candidate and will instead throw their support behind John Tory just to keep Doug Ford out of office.

He ought to cruise to reelection regardless of what the left does. An incumbent mayor has to screw it up pretty bad to lose and Tory has already handled Ford and Chow comfortably.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 08, 2017, 08:48:33 PM
Mainstreet: (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/tax-debate-comes-frame/) 43/31/15. Breguet's latest projection (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9hKZEGlI3lXczRIZXljeGpjODg/view) has 234/84/17/2/1, i.e. Making 1950s Liberalism Great Again. Justin at 55/40 approval. Grits would win 65 seats here. But Tories would keep their seats here, including Lac St. Jean, while as I thought, Boulerice, Brosseau and Laverdiere would be our sole Dipper survivors. Near clean Grit sweep in BC too. Policy-wise, Mainstreet says Grits are winning the tax debate.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lachi on September 08, 2017, 10:54:51 PM
Mainstreet: (http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/tax-debate-comes-frame/) 43/31/15. Breguet's latest projection (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9hKZEGlI3lXczRIZXljeGpjODg/view) has 234/84/17/2/1, i.e. Making 1950s Liberalism Great Again. Justin at 55/40 approval. Grits would win 65 seats here. But Tories would keep their seats here, including Lac St. Jean, while as I thought, Boulerice, Brosseau and Laverdiere would be our sole Dipper survivors. Near clean Grit sweep in BC too. Policy-wise, Mainstreet says Grits are winning the tax debate.

Alberta showing it's stuck in the past federally, as usual...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 08, 2017, 11:19:15 PM
absolutely foolish to be looking at seat projections this soon


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 09, 2017, 12:23:01 AM
absolutely foolish to be looking at seat projections this soon

Agreed.  I think a couple of takeaways are as follows.

1.  Liberals are in good position but hardly an insurmountable lead and certainly not the 20+ like they've had last year.  It wouldn't take that big a swing to be reduced to a minority, although agree as long as they don't do something too stupid they should probably win in 2019, but nothing is 100% certain these days.

2.  Tories have a good solid base are consistently staying north of the 30% mark which gives them a good starting point, but cannot seem to get beyond 33% and until they can find a way to appeal to more swing voters they will be stuck in opposition.  Since Scheer is relatively unknown, how he defines himself and how his opponents define him will be very important.

3.  NDP not great numbers but I suspect they will get somewhat of a bounce once the leader is chosen.  That will at least seat wise help the Tories as any gains would come from the Liberals.  That being said if Singh wins I could see him doing quite well amongst millennials.  The NDP aren't likely to win in 2019 so their best case scenario is reduce the Liberals to a minority and then push through progressive policies that way much like they did 1963-1968 and 1972-1974.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 09, 2017, 06:57:51 AM
absolutely foolish to be looking at seat projections this soon

Agreed.  I think a couple of takeaways are as follows.

1.  Liberals are in good position but hardly an insurmountable lead and certainly not the 20+ like they've had last year.  It wouldn't take that big a swing to be reduced to a minority, although agree as long as they don't do something too stupid they should probably win in 2019, but nothing is 100% certain these days.

2.  Tories have a good solid base are consistently staying north of the 30% mark which gives them a good starting point, but cannot seem to get beyond 33% and until they can find a way to appeal to more swing voters they will be stuck in opposition.  Since Scheer is relatively unknown, how he defines himself and how his opponents define him will be very important.

Agreed. To put this in perspective, at this point in Chretien's first mandate, the Liberals had a lead of ~35% over their nearest competitor (the Bloc Quebecois), and a ~25% over Reform and the Tories combined. The right had was polling below what the Tories are scoring in 2017. The situation in 2017 is bad for the Tories and good for the Liberals, but the 2019 election is hardly a fait accompli, particularly if the new NDP leader can shave a few points off the Liberals.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 09, 2017, 11:39:06 AM
On my end, PQ toning down its debate on Francophone access to Anglo CEGEPs. Now just pressuring them to prioritize Anglo needs. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201709/09/01-5131780-congres-du-pq-pas-question-dinterdire-linscription-aux-cegeps-anglophones.php) They've been kicking this issue around for years.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 09, 2017, 04:18:49 PM
absolutely foolish to be looking at seat projections this soon

Agreed.  I think a couple of takeaways are as follows.

1.  Liberals are in good position but hardly an insurmountable lead and certainly not the 20+ like they've had last year.  It wouldn't take that big a swing to be reduced to a minority, although agree as long as they don't do something too stupid they should probably win in 2019, but nothing is 100% certain these days.

2.  Tories have a good solid base are consistently staying north of the 30% mark which gives them a good starting point, but cannot seem to get beyond 33% and until they can find a way to appeal to more swing voters they will be stuck in opposition.  Since Scheer is relatively unknown, how he defines himself and how his opponents define him will be very important.

Agreed. To put this in perspective, at this point in Chretien's first mandate, the Liberals had a lead of ~35% over their nearest competitor (the Bloc Quebecois), and a ~25% over Reform and the Tories combined. The right had was polling below what the Tories are scoring in 2017. The situation in 2017 is bad for the Tories and good for the Liberals, but the 2019 election is hardly a fait accompli, particularly if the new NDP leader can shave a few points off the Liberals.

Good point.  Interestingly enough it always seems the Liberals poll higher in between elections while Tories poll lower so if you look at the normal swing in past elections it would actually put the parties close to tied.  Off course I suspect in the 90s since it was obvious the Liberals would win, many went for their second choice as they wanted some opposition whereas there is no risk in 2019 of the Liberals not having a solid opposition.  In addition prior to Harper, the Tories were quite weak and divided and demoralized whereas now they are pretty united.  The only thing they do have going is if you look at Nanos poll they ask people if you are willing to consider voting for the party and that was 39% would consider voting Tory in 2015 while now it is 47%.  Liberals were at 54% both times so no change, but it did go as high as 64% last year.  So the Tories do have potential to pick up more votes but so far haven't and those might be more people who are willing to switch once they tire of the Liberals which will probably come after 2019.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 09, 2017, 05:50:13 PM
Lisée got 93% at his review. (https://twitter.com/JdeMontreal/status/906650496357814273) Of course if he crashes next year then this means nothing. I remember when Boisclair and Marois were popular.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 13, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
NDP MP Pierre Nantel says he might leave the NDP and sit as an indie, losing faith in federalism and NDP's willingness to recognize this province as distinct. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/507847/pierre-nantel-met-le-npd-en-garde)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 13, 2017, 11:32:50 AM
NDP MP Pierre Nantel says he might leave the NDP and sit as an indie, losing faith in federalism and NDP's willingness to recognize this province as distinct. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/507847/pierre-nantel-met-le-npd-en-garde)

Pierre Nantel used to be artistic director or something for Cirque Du Soleil.  Hasn't the movie 'It' showed us never trust a clown or a person who works with clowns?  :D (Sorry)

As to the issue itself, I can't understand why this is such a complicated thing: secularism, oui, enforced secularism, non.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 13, 2017, 04:37:59 PM
Trudeau era cabinet minister Allan MacEachen has died. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/allan-maceachen-former-federal-liberal-cabinet-minister-dies-1.4286949)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on September 13, 2017, 05:01:45 PM
Trudeau era cabinet minister Allan MacEachen has died. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/allan-maceachen-former-federal-liberal-cabinet-minister-dies-1.4286949)

"Trudeau era" confused me there for a sec!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 13, 2017, 05:41:21 PM
Hebert: Nantel might run for the PQ in a seat-swap with Ouellet, and NDP fading here might revive the Bloc. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/09/13/fading-ndp-presence-in-quebec-could-give-breath-of-life-to-a-moribund-bloc-qubcois-hbert.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on September 13, 2017, 08:52:06 PM
Hebert: Nantel might run for the PQ in a seat-swap with Ouellet, and NDP fading here might revive the Bloc. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/09/13/fading-ndp-presence-in-quebec-could-give-breath-of-life-to-a-moribund-bloc-qubcois-hbert.html)

Hébert is late on this. I shared it here seven months ago!
In a Longueuil Internet media, NDP Pierre Nantel answered he would be interested in switching to provincial politics. The writer says it would be for the PQ and replacing Martine Ouellet in Vachon could be a possibility. There is no quote from the MP talking about party though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 14, 2017, 04:30:38 AM
Trudeau era cabinet minister Allan MacEachen has died. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/allan-maceachen-former-federal-liberal-cabinet-minister-dies-1.4286949)

"Trudeau era" confused me there for a sec!

Haha oops


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 14, 2017, 10:06:22 AM
RIP: Grit MP Arnold Chan (Scarborough-Agincourt) has died at 50. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberal-mp-arnold-chan-dies-1.3589387)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 14, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
RIP: Grit MP Arnold Chan (Scarborough-Agincourt) has died at 50. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberal-mp-arnold-chan-dies-1.3589387)

Very sad, such a young age.  In terms of by-elections this should probably stay with the Grits although the Tories surprisingly did better in 2015 than 2011, one of the few ridings this happened but still would be shocked if they picked it up.  Nonetheless at this point probably best to remember him and worry about the by-election later. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 14, 2017, 05:14:29 PM
RIP: Grit MP Arnold Chan (Scarborough-Agincourt) has died at 50. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberal-mp-arnold-chan-dies-1.3589387)

Very sad, such a young age.  In terms of by-elections this should probably stay with the Grits although the Tories surprisingly did better in 2015 than 2011, one of the few ridings this happened but still would be shocked if they picked it up.  Nonetheless at this point probably best to remember him and worry about the by-election later. 

I would assume the Conservatives did better in 2015 in that riding because Chan was already in poor health. :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 15, 2017, 08:44:54 AM
No, the Chinese are trending Conservative. It could very well be a close race.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 15, 2017, 03:59:35 PM
No, the Chinese are trending Conservative. It could very well be a close race.

Not in Richmond, British Columbia.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 15, 2017, 05:49:02 PM
No, the Chinese are trending Conservative. It could very well be a close race.

Not in Richmond, British Columbia.

Federally they are, but provincially they are not.  The swing against the Conservatives in Richmond was much less than the province as a whole in the same in the heavy Chinese areas of the GTA.  However it's true provincially the swing against the BC Liberals was quite strong there.  I am guessing unlike in the past where many voted Liberal federally and BC Liberal provincially you are seeing those who vote BC Liberal provincially going over to the Conservatives whereas those who have stayed with the federal Liberals are going over to the BC NDP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 22, 2017, 12:00:02 PM
Mainstreet-QC:  (http://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/pq-pulls-itself-up-in-latest-poll-leads-among-francophone-voters#assnat)30/26/26/18. PQ recovering from its summer swoon for now, Grits now 3rd (lmao) among Francophones while Lisée's still in grave danger of losing Rosemont. Per Breguet (http://www.tooclosetocall.ca/2017/09/sondage-mainstreet-de-septembre-une.html), CAQ's better distribution helps them on seat count. In related news, PSPP is officially running in swingy Prévost. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/508527/elections-2018-paul-st-pierre-plamondon-se-lance-dans-l-arene) My guess is that Grits get voted out if they don't win a majority.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 22, 2017, 02:48:29 PM
Mainstreet-QC:  (http://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/pq-pulls-itself-up-in-latest-poll-leads-among-francophone-voters#assnat)30/26/26/18. PQ recovering from its summer swoon for now, Grits now 3rd (lmao) among Francophones while Lisée's still in grave danger of losing Rosemont. Per Breguet (http://www.tooclosetocall.ca/2017/09/sondage-mainstreet-de-septembre-une.html), CAQ's better distribution helps them on seat count. In related news, PSPP is officially running in swingy Prévost. (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/508527/elections-2018-paul-st-pierre-plamondon-se-lance-dans-l-arene) My guess is that Grits get voted out if they don't win a majority.

Maybe a repeat of 2007 where you had similar seat breakdowns.  Although the Liberals being ahead amongst seniors is probably a good thing is they are most likely to vote and I have found in recent elections polls tend to underestimate PLQ support.  By contrast I find polls tend to overestimate Quebec Solidaire support which skews heavily towards younger voters who are least likely to vote so I would be surprised but not shocked if QS actually got 18%.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 26, 2017, 12:58:18 AM
This seems a bit out of whack with other polls http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2782/federal-horserace-september-2017/ so probably a rogue poll although maybe picking up on a trend.  We shall find out with the next round of polls.  Although I've noticed in general Conservatives tend to do best on the IVR polls while online polls the worst and CATI somewhere in between.  I am guessing perhaps age demographics as IVR polls skew heavily towards older voters while online are more skewed towards younger.  That being said Trudeau's approval is only -4 which is better than most premiers including one's who have successfully been re-elected and Scheer is largely unknown making those numbers even more questionable.

I've found Forum is pretty good when it comes to final polls, but definitely in between elections they've had a lot of weird ones that didn't make sense, but no way of knowing whether they were right or not as you can only accurately compare final polls to actual results as opposed to midterm ones.  If this were the numbers on October 20, 2019 then maybe it would be a sign something big is going to happen, but two years out from an election, probably doesn't mean a whole lot.  Off course the Liberals would be silly to assume they have the election in the bag and likewise the Tories would be silly to think winning in 2019 will be easy (the odds of them winning even with this poll are still fairly low although not zero).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on September 26, 2017, 01:15:16 AM
This seems a bit out of whack with other polls http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2782/federal-horserace-september-2017/ so probably a rogue poll although maybe picking up on a trend.  We shall find out with the next round of polls.  Although I've noticed in general Conservatives tend to do best on the IVR polls while online polls the worst and CATI somewhere in between.  I am guessing perhaps age demographics as IVR polls skew heavily towards older voters while online are more skewed towards younger.  That being said Trudeau's approval is only -4 which is better than most premiers including one's who have successfully been re-elected and Scheer is largely unknown making those numbers even more questionable.

I've found Forum is pretty good when it comes to final polls, but definitely in between elections they've had a lot of weird ones that didn't make sense, but no way of knowing whether they were right or not as you can only accurately compare final polls to actual results as opposed to midterm ones.  If this were the numbers on October 20, 2019 then maybe it would be a sign something big is going to happen, but two years out from an election, probably doesn't mean a whole lot.  Off course the Liberals would be silly to assume they have the election in the bag and likewise the Tories would be silly to think winning in 2019 will be easy (the odds of them winning even with this poll are still fairly low although not zero).

How were things looking electorally for Jean Chretien halfway through his 1st term in 1995? We're the PC's or  Reform in any reasonable striking distance? I guess things may have looked artificially bad, as this would have been during the lead up to the Quebec independence referendum.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 26, 2017, 04:45:15 AM
This seems a bit out of whack with other polls http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2782/federal-horserace-september-2017/ so probably a rogue poll although maybe picking up on a trend.  We shall find out with the next round of polls.  Although I've noticed in general Conservatives tend to do best on the IVR polls while online polls the worst and CATI somewhere in between.  I am guessing perhaps age demographics as IVR polls skew heavily towards older voters while online are more skewed towards younger.  That being said Trudeau's approval is only -4 which is better than most premiers including one's who have successfully been re-elected and Scheer is largely unknown making those numbers even more questionable.

I've found Forum is pretty good when it comes to final polls, but definitely in between elections they've had a lot of weird ones that didn't make sense, but no way of knowing whether they were right or not as you can only accurately compare final polls to actual results as opposed to midterm ones.  If this were the numbers on October 20, 2019 then maybe it would be a sign something big is going to happen, but two years out from an election, probably doesn't mean a whole lot.  Off course the Liberals would be silly to assume they have the election in the bag and likewise the Tories would be silly to think winning in 2019 will be easy (the odds of them winning even with this poll are still fairly low although not zero).

How were things looking electorally for Jean Chretien halfway through his 1st term in 1995? We're the PC's or  Reform in any reasonable striking distance? I guess things may have looked artificially bad, as this would have been during the lead up to the Quebec independence referendum.

The Chretien era Liberals tended to poll really well (like 50-55%) most of the time before coming down to earth during election campaigns.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 26, 2017, 06:55:53 AM
This seems a bit out of whack with other polls http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2782/federal-horserace-september-2017/ so probably a rogue poll although maybe picking up on a trend.  We shall find out with the next round of polls.  Although I've noticed in general Conservatives tend to do best on the IVR polls while online polls the worst and CATI somewhere in between.  I am guessing perhaps age demographics as IVR polls skew heavily towards older voters while online are more skewed towards younger.  That being said Trudeau's approval is only -4 which is better than most premiers including one's who have successfully been re-elected and Scheer is largely unknown making those numbers even more questionable.

I've found Forum is pretty good when it comes to final polls, but definitely in between elections they've had a lot of weird ones that didn't make sense, but no way of knowing whether they were right or not as you can only accurately compare final polls to actual results as opposed to midterm ones.  If this were the numbers on October 20, 2019 then maybe it would be a sign something big is going to happen, but two years out from an election, probably doesn't mean a whole lot.  Off course the Liberals would be silly to assume they have the election in the bag and likewise the Tories would be silly to think winning in 2019 will be easy (the odds of them winning even with this poll are still fairly low although not zero).

Yes, this would be a 13% swing from their poll from last month, which is a bit hard to believe, though not actually outside the realm of statistical possibility. 

I don't have any evidence regarding this, but while Forum certainly does have a solid track record of their final election polls which was reported by the one outlet that I read who reported on this poll, I wonder if Forum doesn't spend a great deal more money on their final pre-election survey than they do on their other polls.

I've written before that Forum is perfect for the sensationalist mainstream media:  not only are their polls cheap which means less cost for the media, but they sometimes produce wild swings like this poll, which the media loves to breathlessly report on.  Of course, it also can't be discounted that this poll is accurate.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 26, 2017, 07:02:42 AM
This seems a bit out of whack with other polls http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2782/federal-horserace-september-2017/ so probably a rogue poll although maybe picking up on a trend.  We shall find out with the next round of polls.  Although I've noticed in general Conservatives tend to do best on the IVR polls while online polls the worst and CATI somewhere in between.  I am guessing perhaps age demographics as IVR polls skew heavily towards older voters while online are more skewed towards younger.  That being said Trudeau's approval is only -4 which is better than most premiers including one's who have successfully been re-elected and Scheer is largely unknown making those numbers even more questionable.

I've found Forum is pretty good when it comes to final polls, but definitely in between elections they've had a lot of weird ones that didn't make sense, but no way of knowing whether they were right or not as you can only accurately compare final polls to actual results as opposed to midterm ones.  If this were the numbers on October 20, 2019 then maybe it would be a sign something big is going to happen, but two years out from an election, probably doesn't mean a whole lot.  Off course the Liberals would be silly to assume they have the election in the bag and likewise the Tories would be silly to think winning in 2019 will be easy (the odds of them winning even with this poll are still fairly low although not zero).

How were things looking electorally for Jean Chretien halfway through his 1st term in 1995? We're the PC's or  Reform in any reasonable striking distance? I guess things may have looked artificially bad, as this would have been during the lead up to the Quebec independence referendum.

The Chretien era Liberals tended to poll really well (like 50-55%) most of the time before coming down to earth during election campaigns.

I think that was much more the case in 1997 than in 2000 when the Liberals were clearly surprised by the ferocity of the attacks from the opposition parties, and even more so, by having to respond to these attacks that were coming at them from various sides of the ideological spectrum as the Progressive Conservatives made a comeback under Jean Charest in the Atlantic Provinces and somewhat in Quebec.

In that election, the Progressive Conservatives were set to make a much bigger comeback in Quebec, but the one province Chretien was an expert in campaigning in was Quebec and he used some underhanded campaign tactics himself to reduce the P.C vote to the point where the P.Cs only won five seats. 

I forget what Chretien did, but with that and with the Reform Party under Preston Manning running his 'not just Quebec politicians anymore' advertisement that was correctly interpreted as 'no more Quebec politicians anymore,'  the 1997 election wasn't one that the main parties could exactly be proud of.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 26, 2017, 11:25:26 AM
Chretien had a much bigger lead than Trudeau did mind you he faced a much more divided and weaker opposition.  The PCs got 2 seats in 1993 and NDP 9 seats so neither could realistically win the next election while the BQ only ran in Quebec and the Reform Party may have won more seats than the NDP has now, but their vote was heavily concentrated in the Western provinces thus they would have needed a much bigger uniform swing to topple the government.

Interestingly enough Nanos sort of confirms Forum at least directionally although not to degree (I find Forum is good at picking up trends, but tends to exaggerate shifts).  Last week Liberals had a 10.9 lead (40.9 to 30%) while this week it is only six points (38.5% to 32.5%) and Nanos is a four week rolling poll so this week's numbers were probably even tighter.  Still it's two years away and I suspect if the Liberal's own internal polls paint as bad a picture they will make changes.  Off course their tax fight might be more about distracting the upcoming NDP leadership race hoping to drive down the NDP vote thus why they are playing up the class warfare and it seems to be working considering the NDP polling numbers.  Yes it may be costing them some Red Tory and Blue Liberal votes, but perhaps they figure they will win those back on something else or if they paint Scheer as an extremist that group will hold their nose and vote Liberal even if unhappy.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 26, 2017, 11:32:31 AM
Chretien had a much bigger lead than Trudeau did mind you he faced a much more divided and weaker opposition.  The PCs got 2 seats in 1993 and NDP 9 seats so neither could realistically win the next election while the BQ only ran in Quebec and the Reform Party may have won more seats than the NDP has now, but their vote was heavily concentrated in the Western provinces thus they would have needed a much bigger uniform swing to topple the government.

Interestingly enough Nanos sort of confirms Forum at least directionally although not to degree (I find Forum is good at picking up trends, but tends to exaggerate shifts).  Last week Liberals had a 10.9 lead (40.9 to 30%) while this week it is only six points (38.5% to 32.5%) and Nanos is a four week rolling poll so this week's numbers were probably even tighter.  Still it's two years away and I suspect if the Liberal's own internal polls paint as bad a picture they will make changes.  Off course their tax fight might be more about distracting the upcoming NDP leadership race hoping to drive down the NDP vote thus why they are playing up the class warfare and it seems to be working considering the NDP polling numbers.  Yes it may be costing them some Red Tory and Blue Liberal votes, but perhaps they figure they will win those back on something else or if they paint Scheer as an extremist that group will hold their nose and vote Liberal even if unhappy.

I don't think the Liberals meant to have the elimination of these small business tax breaks as 'class warfare.'  That seems to be an argument entirely from small business groups themselves as well as from the Conservatives.  The Liberals themselves clearly seem to have been taken by surprise at the charges leveled against them by the effected small businesses as well as the breathtaking dishonesty these small business groups are employing.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on October 01, 2017, 12:01:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/01/americas/edmonton-vehicle-attacks-investigation/index.html

Terrorist attack in Edmonton being investigated. Fortunately, it doesn't seem like anyone was killed, but the details of the attack on the police officer are rather horrific.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kamala on October 01, 2017, 08:30:39 PM
It's kinda funny that now "young" Justin Trudeau is the oldest of the three major party leaders.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: NewYorkExpress on October 01, 2017, 10:22:35 PM
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-10-01/canadian-sikh-politician-is-new-leader-of-federal-new-democrat-party (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-10-01/canadian-sikh-politician-is-new-leader-of-federal-new-democrat-party)

Quote
Jagmeet Singh, an Ontario provincial lawmaker and practicing Sikh, was elected on Sunday as leader of Canada's left-leaning New Democrats, becoming the first non-white politician to head a major Canadian political party.


The 38-year-old lawyer, whose penchant for colorful turbans and tailor-made three-piece suits made him a social media star, was elected on the first ballot to lead the New Democratic Party into the 2019 federal election against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's Liberals.


"Thank you, New Democrats. The run for Prime Minister begins now," Singh tweeted.


Singh secured 54 percent of the vote, defeating three rivals to become the new head of the NDP, succeeding Thomas Mulcair. The results of the vote, conducted online and by mail, were announced at a party meeting in Toronto.



The Toronto-area politician, who led in fundraising since joining the race last May, had been touted by supporters as someone who could bring new life to the party, which has struggled since the death of charismatic former leader Jack Layton in 2011.


The NDP is the third largest party in the federal Parliament, with 44 of 338 seats. The party lags well behind the centrist Liberals and right-leaning Conservatives in political fundraising this year, according to Elections Canada data.


Singh will now focus on rallying supporters and targeting center-left voters who helped propel Trudeau's Liberals to a decisive victory in 2015.


There are hurdles ahead. Singh does not have a seat in the federal parliament and will have to win one in a special election. He also needs to persuade voters that his party can form a government, although it has never held power federally.


There are also questions over whether he will have success in Quebec, Canada's mainly French-speaking province, where overt signs of faith are frowned upon.


Cue the comparisons to Barack Obama in three, two, one...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on October 02, 2017, 12:12:27 AM
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-10-01/canadian-sikh-politician-is-new-leader-of-federal-new-democrat-party (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-10-01/canadian-sikh-politician-is-new-leader-of-federal-new-democrat-party)

Quote
Jagmeet Singh, an Ontario provincial lawmaker and practicing Sikh, was elected on Sunday as leader of Canada's left-leaning New Democrats, becoming the first non-white politician to head a major Canadian political party.


The 38-year-old lawyer, whose penchant for colorful turbans and tailor-made three-piece suits made him a social media star, was elected on the first ballot to lead the New Democratic Party into the 2019 federal election against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's Liberals.


"Thank you, New Democrats. The run for Prime Minister begins now," Singh tweeted.


Singh secured 54 percent of the vote, defeating three rivals to become the new head of the NDP, succeeding Thomas Mulcair. The results of the vote, conducted online and by mail, were announced at a party meeting in Toronto.



The Toronto-area politician, who led in fundraising since joining the race last May, had been touted by supporters as someone who could bring new life to the party, which has struggled since the death of charismatic former leader Jack Layton in 2011.


The NDP is the third largest party in the federal Parliament, with 44 of 338 seats. The party lags well behind the centrist Liberals and right-leaning Conservatives in political fundraising this year, according to Elections Canada data.


Singh will now focus on rallying supporters and targeting center-left voters who helped propel Trudeau's Liberals to a decisive victory in 2015.


There are hurdles ahead. Singh does not have a seat in the federal parliament and will have to win one in a special election. He also needs to persuade voters that his party can form a government, although it has never held power federally.


There are also questions over whether he will have success in Quebec, Canada's mainly French-speaking province, where overt signs of faith are frowned upon.


Cue the comparisons to Barack Obama in three, two, one...

Americans may compare Singh to Obama, but I think most Canadians who are familiar with Singh compare him to former NDP leader Jack Layton in terms of his rhetoric and to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in terms of his youth and charisma (Layton was also charismatic, and I think Singh's charisma is more comparable to Layton's personally in that they're both kind of pleasantly goofy.)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: America Needs R'hllor on October 02, 2017, 03:32:48 AM
It's kinda funny that now "young" Justin Trudeau is the oldest of the three major party leaders.

Wow, yeah, this is pretty impressive. He's 7 years older than both of the other leaders. Quite the contrast against the US, where so many major contenders for 2020 are around 70.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: America Needs R'hllor on October 02, 2017, 03:35:35 AM
It's kinda funny that now "young" Justin Trudeau is the oldest of the three major party leaders.

Wow, yeah, this is pretty impressive. He's 7 years older than both of the other leaders. Quite the contrast against the US, where so many major contenders for 2020 are around 70.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on October 04, 2017, 10:38:54 AM
Alberta MLA Karen McPherson (Calgary-Mackay-Nose Hill) has left the NDP caucus (https://twitter.com/ndpkaren/status/915597926587523073) to sit as an independent, citing dissatisfaction with increased polarization in the political system.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on October 04, 2017, 04:48:00 PM
I was able to find some pretty rare footage of different Canadian election nights. I watched 93,97,2000, 2004 on C-SPAN. I was trying to find 1993 coverage for years on YouTube with no luck.


2004 https://www.c-span.org/video/?182468-1/canadian-election-night-coverage

2000 https://www.c-span.org/video/?160814-1/canadian-election-returns

1997 https://www.c-span.org/video/?c3342938/1997-canadian-election

1993 https://www.c-span.org/video/?51860-1/canadian-election-special



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 04, 2017, 06:14:44 PM
Alberta MLA Karen McPherson (Calgary-Mackay-Nose Hill) has left the NDP caucus (https://twitter.com/ndpkaren/status/915597926587523073) to sit as an independent, citing dissatisfaction with increased polarization in the political system.

Interesting.  To be fair the riding pretty much always went PC prior to 2015 and still votes Conservative federally so it's not likely she would have been able to hold her riding unless the UCP messes up really badly.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on October 04, 2017, 06:30:39 PM
I was able to find some pretty rare footage of different Canadian election nights. I watched 93,97,2000, 2004 on C-SPAN. I was trying to find 1993 coverage for years on YouTube with no luck.


2004 https://www.c-span.org/video/?182468-1/canadian-election-night-coverage

2000 https://www.c-span.org/video/?160814-1/canadian-election-returns

1997 https://www.c-span.org/video/?c3342938/1997-canadian-election

1993 https://www.c-span.org/video/?51860-1/canadian-election-special



It's probably pretty embarrassing to admit, but I have some election returns (CBC, CTV) on video tape.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 10, 2017, 08:56:59 AM
I'm in Calgary visiting my in laws. Some quick thoughts:

Roads: Excellent
Sprawl: Everywhere
Consumerism: Rampant
Scenery: Beautiful

Also, Nenshi seems to be winning the sign war.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 10, 2017, 10:50:29 AM
I'm in Calgary visiting my in laws. Some quick thoughts:

Roads: Excellent
Sprawl: Everywhere
Consumerism: Rampant
Scenery: Beautiful

Also, Nenshi seems to be winning the sign war.

Polls suggest otherwise.  I was in High River for Thanksgiving and there Trudeau and Notley seemed universally hated mind you 75% voted Tory last federal election and 75% voted for either the PCs or Wildrose last provincial election no surprise.  Calgary will be interesting, but if Mainstreet Poll is to believed, a 17 point gap is a big one to overcome.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lachi on October 10, 2017, 04:23:41 PM
I'm in Calgary visiting my in laws. Some quick thoughts:

Roads: Excellent
Sprawl: Everywhere
Consumerism: Rampant
Scenery: Beautiful

Also, Nenshi seems to be winning the sign war.

Polls suggest otherwise.  I was in High River for Thanksgiving and there Trudeau and Notley seemed univrsally hated mind you 75% voted Tory last federal election and 75% voted for either the PCs or Wildrose last provincial election no surprise.  Calgary will be interesting, but if Mainstreet Poll is to believed, a 17 point gap is a big one to overcome.
uhh, NOT EVEN CLOSE to correct.
Federally, they won 59.5%, and in the provincial election, PC+WR won 52.03% (27.8+24.23, respectively)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 10, 2017, 04:51:06 PM
I'm in Calgary visiting my in laws. Some quick thoughts:

Roads: Excellent
Sprawl: Everywhere
Consumerism: Rampant
Scenery: Beautiful

Also, Nenshi seems to be winning the sign war.

Polls suggest otherwise.  I was in High River for Thanksgiving and there Trudeau and Notley seemed univrsally hated mind you 75% voted Tory last federal election and 75% voted for either the PCs or Wildrose last provincial election no surprise.  Calgary will be interesting, but if Mainstreet Poll is to believed, a 17 point gap is a big one to overcome.
uhh, NOT EVEN CLOSE to correct.
Federally, they won 59.5%, and in the provincial election, PC+WR won 52.03% (27.8+24.23, respectively)


High River isn't in Calgary.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 10, 2017, 04:55:24 PM
Also to answer Miles, I agree that signs doesn't equal votes, but it may indicate Nenshi has a stronger organization, and/or his vote is more resilient than we may have otherwise thought. That said I still think he's going down.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 10, 2017, 10:15:53 PM
I'm in Calgary visiting my in laws. Some quick thoughts:

Roads: Excellent
Sprawl: Everywhere
Consumerism: Rampant
Scenery: Beautiful

Also, Nenshi seems to be winning the sign war.

Polls suggest otherwise.  I was in High River for Thanksgiving and there Trudeau and Notley seemed univrsally hated mind you 75% voted Tory last federal election and 75% voted for either the PCs or Wildrose last provincial election no surprise.  Calgary will be interesting, but if Mainstreet Poll is to believed, a 17 point gap is a big one to overcome.
uhh, NOT EVEN CLOSE to correct.
Federally, they won 59.5%, and in the provincial election, PC+WR won 52.03% (27.8+24.23, respectively)


That was High River, not Calgary which like most small towns in Rural Alberta is staunchly conservative.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on October 11, 2017, 12:18:43 AM
I was able to find some pretty rare footage of different Canadian election nights. I watched 93,97,2000, 2004 on C-SPAN. I was trying to find 1993 coverage for years on YouTube with no luck.


2004 https://www.c-span.org/video/?182468-1/canadian-election-night-coverage

2000 https://www.c-span.org/video/?160814-1/canadian-election-returns

1997 https://www.c-span.org/video/?c3342938/1997-canadian-election

1993 https://www.c-span.org/video/?51860-1/canadian-election-special



It's probably pretty embarrassing to admit, but I have some election returns (CBC, CTV) on video tape.

You should really consider uploading it somewhere.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 11, 2017, 09:04:47 AM
I was able to find some pretty rare footage of different Canadian election nights. I watched 93,97,2000, 2004 on C-SPAN. I was trying to find 1993 coverage for years on YouTube with no luck.


2004 https://www.c-span.org/video/?182468-1/canadian-election-night-coverage

2000 https://www.c-span.org/video/?160814-1/canadian-election-returns

1997 https://www.c-span.org/video/?c3342938/1997-canadian-election

1993 https://www.c-span.org/video/?51860-1/canadian-election-special



Good find. At 15:08 of the 2004 election, you can see the Marxist-Leninist party take the lead in a riding :D

(that 'error' showed up in the official returns too, and was never corrected, but was obviously an error as the Liberal candidate won 0 votes in the poll, and it was actually one of those divided polls, so it won't show up on a map, as the results would've been added with the other parts of the poll)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: NewYorkExpress on October 19, 2017, 12:14:33 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/world/canada/quebec-face-coverings-ban.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/world/canada/quebec-face-coverings-ban.html)

Quote
The Quebec provincial legislature on Wednesday barred people who are wearing face coverings from receiving public services or working in government jobs, a move that opponents criticized as unfairly singling out Muslims.

The law will prohibit public workers like doctors and teachers from covering their faces at work, and will effectively bar Muslim women who wear face veils from using public transportation or obtaining public health care services, although it will be possible to apply for exemptions.

Proponents said the legislation would ensure state religious neutrality, and Quebec’s minister of justice, Stéphanie Vallée, who sponsored the bill, said it would foster social cohesion.

But Canadian Muslim groups have long complained that the legislation, which languished for years before it was passed, 66 to 51, on Wednesday, would penalize Muslims, particularly in a province where few women wear face coverings.

I'm curious about which parties voted for/against this measure... any ideas?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 19, 2017, 01:48:14 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/world/canada/quebec-face-coverings-ban.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/world/canada/quebec-face-coverings-ban.html)

Quote
The Quebec provincial legislature on Wednesday barred people who are wearing face coverings from receiving public services or working in government jobs, a move that opponents criticized as unfairly singling out Muslims.

The law will prohibit public workers like doctors and teachers from covering their faces at work, and will effectively bar Muslim women who wear face veils from using public transportation or obtaining public health care services, although it will be possible to apply for exemptions.

Proponents said the legislation would ensure state religious neutrality, and Quebec’s minister of justice, Stéphanie Vallée, who sponsored the bill, said it would foster social cohesion.

But Canadian Muslim groups have long complained that the legislation, which languished for years before it was passed, 66 to 51, on Wednesday, would penalize Muslims, particularly in a province where few women wear face coverings.

I'm curious about which parties voted for/against this measure... any ideas?

I think Quebec Solidaire was the only one to vote against but could be wrong.  There was only one vote against while everyone else voted in favour.  The CAQ and PQ tend to play identity politics far more than the PLQ so you can pretty much bank on them supporting such a bill.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on October 19, 2017, 09:34:30 AM
Vive le Québec! Vive le Québec libre!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 19, 2017, 11:55:47 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/world/canada/quebec-face-coverings-ban.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/world/canada/quebec-face-coverings-ban.html)

Quote
The Quebec provincial legislature on Wednesday barred people who are wearing face coverings from receiving public services or working in government jobs, a move that opponents criticized as unfairly singling out Muslims.

The law will prohibit public workers like doctors and teachers from covering their faces at work, and will effectively bar Muslim women who wear face veils from using public transportation or obtaining public health care services, although it will be possible to apply for exemptions.

Proponents said the legislation would ensure state religious neutrality, and Quebec’s minister of justice, Stéphanie Vallée, who sponsored the bill, said it would foster social cohesion.

But Canadian Muslim groups have long complained that the legislation, which languished for years before it was passed, 66 to 51, on Wednesday, would penalize Muslims, particularly in a province where few women wear face coverings.

I'm curious about which parties voted for/against this measure... any ideas?

I think Quebec Solidaire was the only one to vote against but could be wrong.  There was only one vote against while everyone else voted in favour.  The CAQ and PQ tend to play identity politics far more than the PLQ so you can pretty much bank on them supporting such a bill.

If that's true, my top choice for Quebec 2018 will probably be... Quebec Solidaire!?

Truth is stranger than fiction.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 19, 2017, 12:03:08 PM
Also, Neil MacDonald said in his column on the bill he doesn't trust Singh (Scheer too) to keep his religion out of politics.

*Sigh*

Are there any Sikh views that most secular folk would find objectionable a la Evangelical opposition to abortion, or is this more Liberal/Bloc concern trolling?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 19, 2017, 06:41:57 PM
Actually CAQ and PQ voted against it, but only because they felt it didn't go far enough.  They want to introduce legislation that will go even further.  Interestingly enough next door in Ontario, the legislature unanimously condemned it.  I am guessing Wynne did this to try and trip up Patrick Brown which she has tried and many issues and everytime she tries he refuses to take the bait.  In fact Lisa MacLeod of the PCs asked if Ontario would ask for intervener status in a court case if a charter challenge is launched against this.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on October 20, 2017, 03:07:31 PM
Out of curiosity, why was the poll at the above of the page added, and who did it? I created this thread but had no part in creating a poll. Just curious.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 20, 2017, 05:25:33 PM
Out of curiosity, why was the poll at the above of the page added, and who did it? I created this thread but had no part in creating a poll. Just curious.

I added this, but meant the Alberta UCP leadership discussion so accidentally got put on the wrong page.  Do you know how to move this to the correct one?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on October 20, 2017, 08:58:18 PM
Out of curiosity, why was the poll at the above of the page added, and who did it? I created this thread but had no part in creating a poll. Just curious.

I added this, but meant the Alberta UCP leadership discussion so accidentally got put on the wrong page.  Do you know how to move this to the correct one?

How though? I wasn't aware that non-moderators could edit a topic to include a poll. I'll see if a Mod can delete it, as this thread will probably be around until the next election and it's weird to have that poll on it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 20, 2017, 11:06:05 PM
Out of curiosity, why was the poll at the above of the page added, and who did it? I created this thread but had no part in creating a poll. Just curious.

I added this, but meant the Alberta UCP leadership discussion so accidentally got put on the wrong page.  Do you know how to move this to the correct one?

How though? I wasn't aware that non-moderators could edit a topic to include a poll. I'll see if a Mod can delete it, as this thread will probably be around until the next election and it's weird to have that poll on it.

I can delete it, but we prefer to keep it up, just on a different thread so is there a way to move it.  I accidentally posted it in the wrong thread, otherwise a fair poll just not the right thread so hoping it can be moved over to the other one.  If that doesn't work I will then delete this one and redo a new one on the correct thread, but would rather not lose the votes so far.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 21, 2017, 09:02:55 AM
Morneau is walking back some of the proposed tax changes and is cutting the small business tax rate. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/morneau-tax-reform-farmers-fishers-1.4361746)

I'm not a fan of the small business tax cut or the original changes, but geez Dippers, this must be killing you watching "progressive" party cutting corporate taxes.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 21, 2017, 02:22:18 PM
Morneau is walking back some of the proposed tax changes and is cutting the small business tax rate. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/morneau-tax-reform-farmers-fishers-1.4361746)

I'm not a fan of the small business tax cut or the original changes, but geez Dippers, this must be killing you watching "progressive" party cutting corporate taxes.

Actually I think the dippers support small business tax cuts, but want to raise it on large corporations.  Nonetheless the Toronto Star has criticized this arguing like UK we should have a single rate as having different rates just acts as discouragement to grow larger as most large corporations originally started out as small businesses.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 21, 2017, 02:50:31 PM
Morneau is walking back some of the proposed tax changes and is cutting the small business tax rate. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/morneau-tax-reform-farmers-fishers-1.4361746)

I'm not a fan of the small business tax cut or the original changes, but geez Dippers, this must be killing you watching "progressive" party cutting corporate taxes.

The current NDP policy on small businesses is built around 2 elements:
1. Lowering small businesses tax rate to 9%
2. Lowering the transaction fees businesses have to pay to when a customer uses debit/credit.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 21, 2017, 04:47:09 PM
Really? Never would have guessed that. My mistake.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 22, 2017, 10:10:02 AM
Really? Never would have guessed that. My mistake.

Why? The NDP is all about helping the "little guy", and that includes small businesses.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on October 23, 2017, 06:11:43 PM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 23, 2017, 06:27:57 PM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)

Since finance requires experience, I would promote Ralph Goodale or Scott Brison to it as both are veterans in the house of commons and have strong finance backgrounds.  Obviously keep Chrystia Freeland in foreign affairs as that will be a difficult profile with NAFTA talks and so as one of the stronger performers you want to keep him there.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on October 23, 2017, 06:48:45 PM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)

Since finance requires experience, I would promote Ralph Goodale or Scott Brison to it as both are veterans in the house of commons and have strong finance backgrounds.  Obviously keep Chrystia Freeland in foreign affairs as that will be a difficult profile with NAFTA talks and so as one of the stronger performers you want to keep him there.


1.Carr has been an M.P for two years now.

2.From 1992 to 1997, Carr was on the editorial board of the Winnipeg Free Press. In 1998, he became president and CEO of the Business Council of Manitoba,[4] an organization which he co-founded.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 23, 2017, 07:08:46 PM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)

Since finance requires experience, I would promote Ralph Goodale or Scott Brison to it as both are veterans in the house of commons and have strong finance backgrounds.  Obviously keep Chrystia Freeland in foreign affairs as that will be a difficult profile with NAFTA talks and so as one of the stronger performers you want to keep him there.


Brison is a deficit hawk, won't work and Goodale was terribly incompentent as finance minister under Martin.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 23, 2017, 08:10:00 PM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)

Since finance requires experience, I would promote Ralph Goodale or Scott Brison to it as both are veterans in the house of commons and have strong finance backgrounds.  Obviously keep Chrystia Freeland in foreign affairs as that will be a difficult profile with NAFTA talks and so as one of the stronger performers you want to keep him there.


Brison is a deficit hawk, won't work and Goodale was terribly incompentent as finance minister under Martin.

Considering how strongly the economy is growing I don't think a deficit hawk would be too big a problem and a balanced budget before 2019 would be a pleasant surprise and make it more difficult for the Tories to pull over the Blue Liberals they need to win.  Now if the economy tanks that is a different story, but I suspect even Brison would be fine with a deficit if we go into recession.  The idea of a large deficit may have had some logic when our economy was struggling to reach 1% growth but makes little sense at 3% growth.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on October 24, 2017, 12:06:39 AM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)

Since finance requires experience, I would promote Ralph Goodale or Scott Brison to it as both are veterans in the house of commons and have strong finance backgrounds.  Obviously keep Chrystia Freeland in foreign affairs as that will be a difficult profile with NAFTA talks and so as one of the stronger performers you want to keep him there.


Brison is a deficit hawk, won't work and Goodale was terribly incompentent as finance minister under Martin.

Considering how strongly the economy is growing I don't think a deficit hawk would be too big a problem and a balanced budget before 2019 would be a pleasant surprise and make it more difficult for the Tories to pull over the Blue Liberals they need to win.  Now if the economy tanks that is a different story, but I suspect even Brison would be fine with a deficit if we go into recession.  The idea of a large deficit may have had some logic when our economy was struggling to reach 1% growth but makes little sense at 3% growth.

People like balanced budgets in abstract, but I don't think a governing party ever lost an election for having a deficit. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 24, 2017, 12:47:01 AM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)

Since finance requires experience, I would promote Ralph Goodale or Scott Brison to it as both are veterans in the house of commons and have strong finance backgrounds.  Obviously keep Chrystia Freeland in foreign affairs as that will be a difficult profile with NAFTA talks and so as one of the stronger performers you want to keep him there.


Brison is a deficit hawk, won't work and Goodale was terribly incompentent as finance minister under Martin.

Considering how strongly the economy is growing I don't think a deficit hawk would be too big a problem and a balanced budget before 2019 would be a pleasant surprise and make it more difficult for the Tories to pull over the Blue Liberals they need to win.  Now if the economy tanks that is a different story, but I suspect even Brison would be fine with a deficit if we go into recession.  The idea of a large deficit may have had some logic when our economy was struggling to reach 1% growth but makes little sense at 3% growth.

My point is than Trudeau wants huge spending and a deficit now and I don't think Brison is interested in defending as Finance minister. Trudeau won't chnage his mind to please Brison, either.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 24, 2017, 05:55:55 AM
Really? Never would have guessed that. My mistake.

Why? The NDP is all about helping the "little guy", and that includes small businesses.

The small business limit is $500k. I figured that would be too high to qualify as "little guy" for the NDP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on October 24, 2017, 07:44:53 AM
Proposed cabinet changes
1.Drop Bill Morneau (you're fired biggest loser, get off the island)
2.Move Jim Carr from Natural Resources to Finance (steady performer with a business background)
3.Move Navdeep Bains from Industry (old name) to Natural Resources
4.Move Marc Garneau from Transport to Industry
5.Promote Kevin Lamoureux to Transport
6.Promote Celina Caesar-Chavannes to Small Business and Tourism (Currently held by Bardish Chagger who is also the Government House Leader)

Since finance requires experience, I would promote Ralph Goodale or Scott Brison to it as both are veterans in the house of commons and have strong finance backgrounds.  Obviously keep Chrystia Freeland in foreign affairs as that will be a difficult profile with NAFTA talks and so as one of the stronger performers you want to keep him there.


Brison is a deficit hawk, won't work and Goodale was terribly incompentent as finance minister under Martin.

Considering how strongly the economy is growing I don't think a deficit hawk would be too big a problem and a balanced budget before 2019 would be a pleasant surprise and make it more difficult for the Tories to pull over the Blue Liberals they need to win.  Now if the economy tanks that is a different story, but I suspect even Brison would be fine with a deficit if we go into recession.  The idea of a large deficit may have had some logic when our economy was struggling to reach 1% growth but makes little sense at 3% growth.

My point is than Trudeau wants huge spending and a deficit now and I don't think Brison is interested in defending as Finance minister. Trudeau won't chnage his mind to please Brison, either.

Maybe not, but Brison would be a powerful ally if Trudeau wants to be assured of his support in the event of a leadership challenge.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 25, 2017, 05:36:57 PM
The PLQ MLA for Chomedey, Guy Ouellette has been arrested by the anti-corruption unit.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 27, 2017, 05:40:42 AM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 27, 2017, 01:05:21 PM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 27, 2017, 01:47:20 PM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Agree with the law, but think politics played a role too.  Wynne is not doing so well in the polls so she is trying everything possible to trip up the PCs.  Since many in the caucus are pro-life and even Brown once was, she was hoping at least some PCs would break ranks and vote against this which didn't happen, only Jack MacLaren who is now in the Trilium Party voted against.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 27, 2017, 03:37:13 PM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Speaking as a protester you're full of it Max.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 27, 2017, 07:07:04 PM
Harper betrays Canada, undermine Canada position in NAFTA talks (http://torontosun.com/news/national/napping-on-nafta-harper-blasts-trudeau-governments-handling-of-negotiations)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on October 27, 2017, 07:42:47 PM
Harper betrays Canada, undermine Canada position in NAFTA talks (http://torontosun.com/news/national/napping-on-nafta-harper-blasts-trudeau-governments-handling-of-negotiations)
It's called real talk from a real leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 27, 2017, 08:19:15 PM
I think it will just re-enforce what most on each side believe already.  Most Conservatives think Trudeau is more style than substance so they will agree with Harper while most Liberals think Harper was a disaster and too willing to suck up to the GOP in the US and had few friends abroad so they will argue he is doing more harm.  Whether helping or not, I doubt it will have that big an impact either way.  Anyways the Liberals do have James Moore and Rona Ambrose on their NAFTA committee and do use Brian Mulroney who unlike Harper knows Trump well and has a lot more connections to the Republicans than Harper ever have and unlike Harper doesn't have a strong grudge against Trudeau.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 28, 2017, 08:21:51 AM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 28, 2017, 11:02:56 AM
Leger provincial:  (https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-liberal-party-slips-as-caq-surges-less-than-a-year-before-election-poll/article36758953/?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com&click=sf_globe)34/28/20/12. Lowest ever scores for PLQ/PQ. QS not high or dispersed enough to reverse 1970.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 28, 2017, 02:34:32 PM
Leger provincial:  (https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-liberal-party-slips-as-caq-surges-less-than-a-year-before-election-poll/article36758953/?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com&click=sf_globe)34/28/20/12. Lowest ever scores for PLQ/PQ. QS not high or dispersed enough to reverse 1970.

Interesting, while numbers seem on the high side for CAQ, the by-election in Louis-Hebert results certainly would play to this being true.  Also I wonder if Bill 62 is an effort by the PLQ to win back some soft CAQ supporters?

Leger also has a federal poll which paints a much rosier picture for the Liberals 42% to Conservatives 30% NDP  15% so once again no bounce for Singh.  Although with Leger when you look at the provinces it seems the Ontario numbers look most out of wack as it is 47% Liberal and 28% Conservative which is way off what all others are saying.  All the other regions are in line with other polls.  NDP doesn't seem to be getting a bounce, but I think on the business taxation issue the Liberals did that when they did to try and drive down NDP support as Singh probably worries them a lot more than Scheer does.  Yes the Conservatives are doing a bit better, but 2015 from historical standards was on the low side for the Conservatives so a slight bounce is no surprise, their main problem is they still have a ways to go before they can win never mind even if they won a minority, it's quite possible the NDP and Liberals would gang up to defeat them on the throne speech and then form a coalition like they tried in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_43rd_Canadian_federal_election


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Blue3 on October 28, 2017, 05:30:51 PM
So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 28, 2017, 06:41:56 PM
So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

The decline in polling #'s for Trudeau is more due to the poor handling of the tax changes.  Basically he wanted to limit income sprinking so he alienated much of the small business community while his finance minister did a horrible job of defending it.  Also when it turned out his finance minister had a French villa not affected, put his money in Alberta to pay lower taxes, many thought he was being hypocritical.  None of the opposition parties have gained a lot, more Trudeau has taken a hit.  Not a fatal one by any means, but at least somewhat vulnerable at the moment.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 29, 2017, 06:04:45 AM
So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

To answer #2, none of the opposition parties have released any big ideas yet. I wouldn't expect that until much closer to the campaign.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 29, 2017, 07:06:01 AM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.

A little, yes. I took a guess at how the regular posters on this thread would feel, and I was on the fence about you... didn't really know how whether you were a civil liberties absolutist or not, so I couldn't make a proper guess.

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Agree with the law, but think politics played a role too.  Wynne is not doing so well in the polls so she is trying everything possible to trip up the PCs.  Since many in the caucus are pro-life and even Brown once was, she was hoping at least some PCs would break ranks and vote against this which didn't happen, only Jack MacLaren who is now in the Trilium Party voted against.

A government (or person for that matter) can't credibly claim to support civil liberties if those civil liberties don't apply to people or policies it finds distasteful. If abortion protesters are really harassing like the bill's proponents claim, then they should be dealt with under existing harassment laws.

Moving onto the politics, yes this was clearly Wynne trying to trip up the PC's, and Brown being disciplined/craven depending on your POV. This is a good reason why I would be a terrible retail politician, as I would have whipped a "No" vote based on civil liberties grounds. I'm not sure who I would vote for if I were in Ontario, probably Trillium/some other fringe party/spoiled ballot depending on the riding.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 29, 2017, 10:34:58 AM
So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on October 29, 2017, 01:11:43 PM
So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

You can never really rely on one of the big parties to actually enact such major reform, especially electoral reform, if it doesn't immediately benefit them.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on October 29, 2017, 03:26:17 PM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.

A little, yes. I took a guess at how the regular posters on this thread would feel, and I was on the fence about you... didn't really know how whether you were a civil liberties absolutist or not, so I couldn't make a proper guess.

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Agree with the law, but think politics played a role too.  Wynne is not doing so well in the polls so she is trying everything possible to trip up the PCs.  Since many in the caucus are pro-life and even Brown once was, she was hoping at least some PCs would break ranks and vote against this which didn't happen, only Jack MacLaren who is now in the Trilium Party voted against.

A government (or person for that matter) can't credibly claim to support civil liberties if those civil liberties don't apply to people or policies it finds distasteful. If abortion protesters are really harassing like the bill's proponents claim, then they should be dealt with under existing harassment laws.

Moving onto the politics, yes this was clearly Wynne trying to trip up the PC's, and Brown being disciplined/craven depending on your POV. This is a good reason why I would be a terrible retail politician, as I would have whipped a "No" vote based on civil liberties grounds. I'm not sure who I would vote for if I were in Ontario, probably Trillium/some other fringe party/spoiled ballot depending on the riding.

So, voting against the rights of the Francophones, instead.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 29, 2017, 04:23:02 PM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

You might find it surprising that I oppose the law; I believe it violates freedom of speech.

A little, yes. I took a guess at how the regular posters on this thread would feel, and I was on the fence about you... didn't really know how whether you were a civil liberties absolutist or not, so I couldn't make a proper guess.

Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

Well, it passed with only 1 vote against.
And you know very well than those "protests" are just screaming insults to patients and employees.

Agree with the law, but think politics played a role too.  Wynne is not doing so well in the polls so she is trying everything possible to trip up the PCs.  Since many in the caucus are pro-life and even Brown once was, she was hoping at least some PCs would break ranks and vote against this which didn't happen, only Jack MacLaren who is now in the Trilium Party voted against.

A government (or person for that matter) can't credibly claim to support civil liberties if those civil liberties don't apply to people or policies it finds distasteful. If abortion protesters are really harassing like the bill's proponents claim, then they should be dealt with under existing harassment laws.

Moving onto the politics, yes this was clearly Wynne trying to trip up the PC's, and Brown being disciplined/craven depending on your POV. This is a good reason why I would be a terrible retail politician, as I would have whipped a "No" vote based on civil liberties grounds. I'm not sure who I would vote for if I were in Ontario, probably Trillium/some other fringe party/spoiled ballot depending on the riding.

So, voting against the rights of the Francophones, instead.

::)

What are the odds that I know the language policies of some fringe party that ran two candidates in 2014 and has a whopping four sentences in the body of its Wikipedia entry? Did DC Al Fine make a quick list of potential options for a pro-life voter after a skim of Wikipedia? Nah, he must have gone out of his way to find an option screw the Francos!

Get a grip.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 29, 2017, 04:28:51 PM
So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

Eh, I'm sort of torn. I'm disappointed we didn't get MMP or STV, but if the alternative was Trudeau's preferred IRV option (which would have exacerbated the bad tendencies of our current system), I'm not that upset.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 29, 2017, 10:15:33 PM
So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

You can never really rely on one of the big parties to actually enact such major reform, especially electoral reform, if it doesn't immediately benefit them.

Did I think he would actually do it? No. But I can still be disappointed. At least I can use it next time a Liberal tries to get me to vote for them.

So I seem to ask this every 8 months or something, but still curious since I'm not a regular observer of Canadian politics...


1. What appear to be Trudeau's broken promises and failures, so far? What did he say he'd do but hasn't done, at least not yet? That's still on their To-Do list?

2. What are the biggest ideas of the opposition?

Trudeau's biggest failure IMO is his 180 on electoral reform. Still very angry about it.

Eh, I'm sort of torn. I'm disappointed we didn't get MMP or STV, but if the alternative was Trudeau's preferred IRV option (which would have exacerbated the bad tendencies of our current system), I'm not that upset.

This is very true. Though, I wouldn't mind IRV if we had a PR senate.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on October 31, 2017, 11:58:12 PM
I think most polls have shown BC has the highest support for PR so if it fails there it probably is unlikely it would pass elsewhere.  If it passes, Trudeau can easily see best to take a wait and see approach since if it works others will follow and if not others won't.  Certainly there is a strong age divide as older voters are generally content with the current system while younger voters are much more favourable to PR.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 03, 2017, 05:47:37 AM
One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jewish-census-numbers-1.4381585).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Santander on November 03, 2017, 09:36:41 AM
One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jewish-census-numbers-1.4381585).

Supposedly there are only 20,000 Jews living in York Region. Yeah right.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on November 03, 2017, 10:50:51 AM
One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jewish-census-numbers-1.4381585).

I am guessing it is more due to people giving different responses.  Jewish is an ethnic group, but many might be identifying by the country their ancestors immigrated from as opposed to Jewish.  Otherwise did the numbers of Russians, Polish, Ukrainians, Hungarians or other countries with large number of Jewish immigrants see a similar jump and if so that probably is the reason.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Tender Branson on November 03, 2017, 11:18:00 AM
Trudeau recently said the following when asked about Kurz:

Quote
@justintrudeau on Austria's new (and young) leader:

"I disagree with him even more than I think I disagree with President Trump."

https://twitter.com/CBCPolitics/status/926116702877822983

... which is very odd to say, because other than on immigration they are virtually the same on policies. Even on gay marriage, which Kurz personally favours (but is opposed because of party group pressure) and Trump opposes. Trump also favours the death penalty (Kurz and Trudeau of course not). Trump is a strong climate-change critic, Kurz and Trudeau are not. Trump is a sexist troll, Kurz and Trudeau are not.

So, what was Trudeau speaking about ?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on November 03, 2017, 12:30:40 PM
Trudeau recently said the following when asked about Kurz:

Quote
@justintrudeau on Austria's new (and young) leader:

"I disagree with him even more than I think I disagree with President Trump."

https://twitter.com/CBCPolitics/status/926116702877822983

... which is very odd to say, because other than on immigration they are virtually the same on policies. Even on gay marriage, which Kurz personally favours (but is opposed because of party group pressure) and Trump opposes. Trump also favours the death penalty (Kurz and Trudeau of course not). Trump is a strong climate-change critic, Kurz and Trudeau are not. Trump is a sexist troll, Kurz and Trudeau are not.

So, what was Trudeau speaking about ?

You could say on economic policy more aligned with Trump as both favour tax cuts whereas Trudeau only cut for the middle class but not the lower and actually hiked them for the rich (mind you Austria's top rate is already 55% so I think even for Trudeau he wouldn't hike them at that rate).  While I think the emphasis is on tax cuts for the middle class, I presume the lower rates will get dropped and would be surprised if the top rate isn't dropped at some point.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 03, 2017, 07:30:51 PM
One of the weirder results of the census is that the number of ethnic (as opposed to religious) Jews appears to have declined by over 50% in five years (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jewish-census-numbers-1.4381585).

I am guessing it is more due to people giving different responses.  Jewish is an ethnic group, but many might be identifying by the country their ancestors immigrated from as opposed to Jewish.  Otherwise did the numbers of Russians, Polish, Ukrainians, Hungarians or other countries with large number of Jewish immigrants see a similar jump and if so that probably is the reason.

Apparently they list the top twenty ethnicities from the previous census as options on the next one. If you aren't in the top twenty you need to write it in. Jewish apparently dropped out of the top twenty in 2011. They would be more prone to a big drop as a result of that than compared to say Greeks for the reasons you outlined above.

It's an interesting exercise on the quirks and limitations in census data.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 04, 2017, 05:30:47 AM
Nova Scotia Tory leader Jamie Baillie has resigned (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/jamie-baillie-quitting-role-as-leader-of-progressive-conservatives-1.4382107). He will stay on as MLA for Cumberland South until the next election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on November 05, 2017, 10:04:45 PM
Ontario tramples on one our most fundamental liberties by forbidding protests within 50 meters of an abortion clinic. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090)

The measure has been justified by claims that protests intimidate patients using the clinic and employees trying to go to work. I am eagerly waiting for the same logic to be applied to union pickets ::)

Protests with the potential to prohibit business transactions, including any and all medical procedures, are absolutely unlawful.

I mean, I'm not really very pro-choice, but your position here is concerning to me.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on November 11, 2017, 04:11:03 PM
Alberta Party Leader Greg Clarkhas resigned as Leader (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/clark-steps-down-as-alberta-party-leader) in order to trigger a leadership race. It appears that the hope is that this leadership race will generate excitement around the Alberta Party, attracting new members and donors, in the wake of Kenney's election as UCP leader. Clark has said that he may run in this leadership race, but that he is undecided as of yet. He will, however, definitely be staying on as MLA for Calgary-Elbow, and will be running for re-election in 2019.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 13, 2017, 06:27:05 AM
Alberta Party Leader Greg Clarkhas resigned as Leader (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/clark-steps-down-as-alberta-party-leader) in order to trigger a leadership race. It appears that the hope is that this leadership race will generate excitement around the Alberta Party, attracting new members and donors, in the wake of Kenney's election as UCP leader. Clark has said that he may run in this leadership race, but that he is undecided as of yet. He will, however, definitely be staying on as MLA for Calgary-Elbow, and will be running for re-election in 2019.

So he's triggering a leadership race, and (probably) running in it, not because he's in trouble, but because he wants to add members? That's kind of lame.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 14, 2017, 06:24:10 PM
Alberta Party Leader Greg Clarkhas resigned as Leader (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/clark-steps-down-as-alberta-party-leader) in order to trigger a leadership race. It appears that the hope is that this leadership race will generate excitement around the Alberta Party, attracting new members and donors, in the wake of Kenney's election as UCP leader. Clark has said that he may run in this leadership race, but that he is undecided as of yet. He will, however, definitely be staying on as MLA for Calgary-Elbow, and will be running for re-election in 2019.

So he's triggering a leadership race, and (probably) running in it, not because he's in trouble, but because he wants to add members? That's kind of lame.

Sounds like he's an attention whore.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on November 16, 2017, 11:18:12 AM
Alberta Party Leader Greg Clarkhas resigned as Leader (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/clark-steps-down-as-alberta-party-leader) in order to trigger a leadership race. It appears that the hope is that this leadership race will generate excitement around the Alberta Party, attracting new members and donors, in the wake of Kenney's election as UCP leader. Clark has said that he may run in this leadership race, but that he is undecided as of yet. He will, however, definitely be staying on as MLA for Calgary-Elbow, and will be running for re-election in 2019.

So he's triggering a leadership race, and (probably) running in it, not because he's in trouble, but because he wants to add members? That's kind of lame.

Is this also part of the 'unite the center' movement?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 16, 2017, 02:33:16 PM
Alberta Party Leader Greg Clarkhas resigned as Leader (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/clark-steps-down-as-alberta-party-leader) in order to trigger a leadership race. It appears that the hope is that this leadership race will generate excitement around the Alberta Party, attracting new members and donors, in the wake of Kenney's election as UCP leader. Clark has said that he may run in this leadership race, but that he is undecided as of yet. He will, however, definitely be staying on as MLA for Calgary-Elbow, and will be running for re-election in 2019.

So he's triggering a leadership race, and (probably) running in it, not because he's in trouble, but because he wants to add members? That's kind of lame.

Is this also part of the 'unite the center' movement?

Can't see a political movement in Canada adopting that spelling. :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on November 17, 2017, 07:35:11 AM
Alberta Party Leader Greg Clarkhas resigned as Leader (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/clark-steps-down-as-alberta-party-leader) in order to trigger a leadership race. It appears that the hope is that this leadership race will generate excitement around the Alberta Party, attracting new members and donors, in the wake of Kenney's election as UCP leader. Clark has said that he may run in this leadership race, but that he is undecided as of yet. He will, however, definitely be staying on as MLA for Calgary-Elbow, and will be running for re-election in 2019.

So he's triggering a leadership race, and (probably) running in it, not because he's in trouble, but because he wants to add members? That's kind of lame.

Is this also part of the 'unite the center' movement?

Can't see a political movement in Canada adopting that spelling. :P

Now I don't speak any English, just American without tears.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 27, 2017, 06:41:26 AM
Pictou East MLA and Tory finance critic Tim Houston is the first candidate to enter the NS PC leadership race. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/tim-houston-running-for-pc-party-leader-1.4409407)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 29, 2017, 06:39:09 AM
NS NDP executives resign in protest over party leader Gary Burrill (https://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2017/11/27/ndp-executives-resign-in-protest-over-party-leader-gary-burrill)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on November 29, 2017, 10:15:38 PM
NDP narrowing the gap a bit in Alberta

Insights West
UCP 47%
NDP 33%
Liberal 10%
Alberta Party 7%


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on November 30, 2017, 10:28:09 PM
Conservative MP Blake Richards expelled from house for "excessive heckling"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/speaker-expels-tory-mp-heckling-1.4427036 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/speaker-expels-tory-mp-heckling-1.4427036)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 02, 2017, 10:00:57 AM
PQ polling (http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/514502/sondage-leger-rien-ne-va-au-pq) in the teens again per Leger, though IIRC need closer to 15% for a wipeout. SAD! Full result is 36/32/19/11.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 06, 2017, 10:22:49 AM
New CRA poll on PEI:

Lib 37 (-8)
PC 28 (+4)
Grn 25 (+7)
NDP 11 (-1)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 07, 2017, 07:00:21 AM
Why is the NDP so historically (and currently) weak in the maritime provinces?

The groups that historically favour the NDP are very thin on the ground here. We have very little heavy industry, very few "new left" types, and no major ethnic minorities that might support the NDP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: NewYorkExpress on December 09, 2017, 01:56:25 PM
https://nypost.com/2017/12/08/bat-wielding-racist-screams-isis-at-family-speaking-spanish/ (https://nypost.com/2017/12/08/bat-wielding-racist-screams-isis-at-family-speaking-spanish/)

Quote
Startling cellphone video posted online Friday shows the moment a Canadian man and his family were attacked by a bat-wielding lunatic shouting “terrorists” and “ISIS” — all because they were speaking in Spanish.




“Get the f–k outta here,” the attacker seethes in the now-viral footage.

“Terrorists! We got terrorists here!” he says repeatedly. “ISIS! ISIS! We got ISIS right here!”

The sickening incident was caught on camera Thursday afternoon outside a mall in St. Thomas, Ontario.

Suspect Mark Philips, 36, was later arrested charged with aggravated assault and assault with a weapon, according to CBC News.

His alleged victims were identified by the local outlet as Sergio Estepa, of St. Thomas, his common-law partner, Mari Zambrano, and their 13-year-old son, who was not named.

Zambrano posted the video showing the attack on her Twitter page early Friday, sparking countless responses.

“We were victims of a hate crime in St Thomas Ontario,” she tweeted. “A guy got mad, because we were talking in Spanish . He was about to hit my son who is 13th years old, but my Hubby jumped while the aggressor swings the baseball bat.”

Estepa reportedly suffered a cracked rib and bruising during the bizarre assault as he stepped in to protect his son.

“It’s disturbing. This was an isolated and quite disturbing incident. Hopefully it remains isolated,” St. Thomas police Sgt. Brian Carnegie told CBC.

“It’s quite disturbing for any community, never mind the community of St. Thomas,” he said. “Not only being a police officer in this community but a member of this community, I’m shocked and outraged that something like this would happen.”


Estepa can be heard on video repeatedly asking Phillips to “stay away” from him and his family, to no avail.

“At some point he started to charge my son, and I went in front,” Estepa said. “Only one person helped us. It happened at 4:30, in a mall with a movie theatre and many stores. It’s quite an active mall. We were surprised that they pretended that nothing happened.”

This is disturbing at best...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on December 09, 2017, 05:48:28 PM
Not surprising from the Ontario Bible Belt, alas.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 10, 2017, 08:41:00 AM
Abella will probably be appointed Chief Justice. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/12/08/trudeau-to-name-new-top-judge-for-supreme-court-next-week.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on December 14, 2017, 11:30:22 AM
Not surprising from the Ontario Bible Belt, alas.

Not sure I would call Southwestern Ontario the bible belt, that is more Central Ontario and Eastern Ontario although unlike in say southern New Brunswick, southern Manitoba, southern Alberta, and the Fraser Valley of BC, Ontario doesn't have a really strong bible belt the way those do.  Now yes Elgin-Middlesex-London is a fairly solid conservative seat, but that is probably more economic.  There is a feeling the Liberals are very Toronto centric so areas furthest removed from Toronto tend to go either Tory or NDP.  Heavily unionized areas like Windsor, Hamilton, and Northern Ontario more NDP while most rural Ontario ridings go Conservative.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on December 14, 2017, 11:35:05 AM
While no NDP supporter, any of the NDP supporters here have any idea why the NDP is doing so poorly in the polls?  I would have thought Jagmeet Singh would have helped them or is perhaps with Trudeau moving to the left he has more or less squeezed out the NDP.  The Tories while not up or not down either and seem to be holding their vote despite the fact Andrew Scheer is not exactly someone that is overly appealing although he doesn't anger people the way Harper did either and to be fair most on the right hate Justin Trudeau so much I suspect they would go Tory no matter who was the leader.  Just curious on this. 

Also not only bad news for the NDP, but also Tories.  As we saw in the recent by-elections, the Tories got over 40% in 3 of the 4 yet only won one seat so tough for them to win without better splits.  Getting over 40% in 170 ridings will be a very long shot in 2019, but at least plausible if everything goes right whereas getting over 45% in 170 ridings is pretty much impossible unless you have a Mulroney type leader who can sweep Quebec which Scheer is not thus the dilemma for the Tories too.  In 2004, 2006, 2008, and 2011 Tories won more seats than seats they got over 40% whereas in 2015 they got over 40% in more ridings than they won thus my point about how weak NDP hurts them.  No more was this true than the 905 belt where the Tories got over 40% in most ridings in 2015 yet lost almost all of them.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on December 15, 2017, 01:28:59 AM
https://nypost.com/2017/12/08/bat-wielding-racist-screams-isis-at-family-speaking-spanish/ (https://nypost.com/2017/12/08/bat-wielding-racist-screams-isis-at-family-speaking-spanish/)

Quote
Startling cellphone video posted online Friday shows the moment a Canadian man and his family were attacked by a bat-wielding lunatic shouting “terrorists” and “ISIS” — all because they were speaking in Spanish.





“Get the f–k outta here,” the attacker seethes in the now-viral footage.

“Terrorists! We got terrorists here!” he says repeatedly. “ISIS! ISIS! We got ISIS right here!”

The sickening incident was caught on camera Thursday afternoon outside a mall in St. Thomas, Ontario.

Suspect Mark Philips, 36, was later arrested charged with aggravated assault and assault with a weapon, according to CBC News.

His alleged victims were identified by the local outlet as Sergio Estepa, of St. Thomas, his common-law partner, Mari Zambrano, and their 13-year-old son, who was not named.

Zambrano posted the video showing the attack on her Twitter page early Friday, sparking countless responses.

“We were victims of a hate crime in St Thomas Ontario,” she tweeted. “A guy got mad, because we were talking in Spanish . He was about to hit my son who is 13th years old, but my Hubby jumped while the aggressor swings the baseball bat.”

Estepa reportedly suffered a cracked rib and bruising during the bizarre assault as he stepped in to protect his son.

“It’s disturbing. This was an isolated and quite disturbing incident. Hopefully it remains isolated,” St. Thomas police Sgt. Brian Carnegie told CBC.

“It’s quite disturbing for any community, never mind the community of St. Thomas,” he said. “Not only being a police officer in this community but a member of this community, I’m shocked and outraged that something like this would happen.”


Estepa can be heard on video repeatedly asking Phillips to “stay away” from him and his family, to no avail.

“At some point he started to charge my son, and I went in front,” Estepa said. “Only one person helped us. It happened at 4:30, in a mall with a movie theatre and many stores. It’s quite an active mall. We were surprised that they pretended that nothing happened.”

This is disturbing at best...

Shockingly, the suspect is the great-grandson of Nathan Phillips, Toronto's first Jewish mayor elected in the 1950s.  He was known as the mayor of "all the people" and for promoting inclusion and tolerance.
 



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on December 15, 2017, 01:30:47 AM
Not surprising from the Ontario Bible Belt, alas.

Not sure I would call Southwestern Ontario the bible belt, that is more Central Ontario and Eastern Ontario although unlike in say southern New Brunswick, southern Manitoba, southern Alberta, and the Fraser Valley of BC, Ontario doesn't have a really strong bible belt the way those do.  Now yes Elgin-Middlesex-London is a fairly solid conservative seat, but that is probably more economic.  There is a feeling the Liberals are very Toronto centric so areas furthest removed from Toronto tend to go either Tory or NDP.  Heavily unionized areas like Windsor, Hamilton, and Northern Ontario more NDP while most rural Ontario ridings go Conservative.

Ontario's most evangelical areas are in SW Ontario and the Niagara region.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 16, 2017, 09:50:36 AM
Not surprising from the Ontario Bible Belt, alas.

Not sure I would call Southwestern Ontario the bible belt, that is more Central Ontario and Eastern Ontario although unlike in say southern New Brunswick, southern Manitoba, southern Alberta, and the Fraser Valley of BC, Ontario doesn't have a really strong bible belt the way those do.  Now yes Elgin-Middlesex-London is a fairly solid conservative seat, but that is probably more economic.  There is a feeling the Liberals are very Toronto centric so areas furthest removed from Toronto tend to go either Tory or NDP.  Heavily unionized areas like Windsor, Hamilton, and Northern Ontario more NDP while most rural Ontario ridings go Conservative.

Ontario's most evangelical areas are in SW Ontario and the Niagara region.

Huh? I knew that was the Dutch Calvinist belt, but they're a minority among Evangelicals. Didn't know that SW Ontario had high numbers of Baptists/Pentecostals.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 16, 2017, 09:59:55 AM
Quick question: How many current fringe parties do you think would win seats if we switched to the Dutch system? (i.e. We know the major parties would break up and form new parties if we changed, but what about the current fringey types)

The Libertarians were already 2/3's of the way to a seat in 2015 despite only running 70 candidates, so I'm sure they'd get a couple seats. Christian Heritage didn't do well in 2015, but I'm sure they could tap into socons dissatisfied with the Tories if the system changed. Anyone else?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 16, 2017, 03:03:29 PM
The CHP and Libertarians would probably win seats; don't think anyone else would.

As for splits, I think this would be a more interesting question. Honestly, I think only the Conservatives would, but not right away. Some socialists in the NDP would probably form their own party too and would win a few seats.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on December 18, 2017, 07:52:39 PM
Huh? I knew that was the Dutch Calvinist belt, but they're a minority among Evangelicals. Didn't know that SW Ontario had high numbers of Baptists/Pentecostals.

Outside Atlantic Canada, evangelicals in Canada are largely Mennonite or Dutch, no?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on December 19, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Quick question: How many current fringe parties do you think would win seats if we switched to the Dutch system? (i.e. We know the major parties would break up and form new parties if we changed, but what about the current fringey types)

The Libertarians were already 2/3's of the way to a seat in 2015 despite only running 70 candidates, so I'm sure they'd get a couple seats. Christian Heritage didn't do well in 2015, but I'm sure they could tap into socons dissatisfied with the Tories if the system changed. Anyone else?

What specifically is the Dutch system?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on December 19, 2017, 01:32:58 PM
Quick question: How many current fringe parties do you think would win seats if we switched to the Dutch system? (i.e. We know the major parties would break up and form new parties if we changed, but what about the current fringey types)

The Libertarians were already 2/3's of the way to a seat in 2015 despite only running 70 candidates, so I'm sure they'd get a couple seats. Christian Heritage didn't do well in 2015, but I'm sure they could tap into socons dissatisfied with the Tories if the system changed. Anyone else?

What specifically is the Dutch system?

Nationwide constituency, no threshold.

I could imagine a suite of parties getting in tbh - there would be astonishing low barier to getting on - the Communists, the Rhinos, the Marxists Leninists, the Pirates and the Animal Party would probably get their feet in the door. Assuming they get on the national ballot.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 21, 2017, 07:12:50 AM
The CHP and Libertarians would probably win seats; don't think anyone else would.

As for splits, I think this would be a more interesting question. Honestly, I think only the Conservatives would, but not right away. Some socialists in the NDP would probably form their own party too and would win a few seats.

Agreed. I wonder if the Liberals would split? If they don't, we basically get Italy 1945-1990, where the big party makes a deal with a different opposition party each election. The other big question is hwo the Tories would split. Everyone keeps saying on PC/Reform lines, but I think that's a little antiquated (and let's be honest, what's really left of the old PC's in the Tories anyway). I would guess they split along orthodox conservative/populist lines.

Huh? I knew that was the Dutch Calvinist belt, but they're a minority among Evangelicals. Didn't know that SW Ontario had high numbers of Baptists/Pentecostals.

Outside Atlantic Canada, evangelicals in Canada are largely Mennonite or Dutch, no?

Nope. Evangelicals are disproportionately Mennonite/Reformed in Canada, but the American non-denom/Penetecostal/Baptist dominance is still there. Per the 2011 Household Survey, the population of groups that could be construed as Evangelical are:   (http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/dp-pd/dt-td/Rp-eng.cfm?LANG=E&APATH=3&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=0&GID=0&GK=0&GRP=0&PID=105399&PRID=0&PTYPE; =105277&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&Temporal=2013&THEME=95&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=)

Generic Christian 1.475k (includes "born again" etc, but also lots of cultural Christians/non-evangelicals)
Baptist: 635k
Generic Protestant: 550k
Pentecostal: 478k
Mennonite: 176k
Dutch Reformed: 100k
Generic Evangelical 92k
Salvation Army: 71k
Adventist: 66k
Christian and Missionary Alliance: 51k
etc, etc.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 22, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
The CHP and Libertarians would probably win seats; don't think anyone else would.

As for splits, I think this would be a more interesting question. Honestly, I think only the Conservatives would, but not right away. Some socialists in the NDP would probably form their own party too and would win a few seats.

Agreed. I wonder if the Liberals would split? If they don't, we basically get Italy 1945-1990, where the big party makes a deal with a different opposition party each election. The other big question is hwo the Tories would split. Everyone keeps saying on PC/Reform lines, but I think that's a little antiquated (and let's be honest, what's really left of the old PC's in the Tories anyway). I would guess they split along orthodox conservative/populist lines.



I think the obvious split would be between social conservatives vs. libertarians (aka Sheer vs Bernier), but the Conservative Party doesn't have that many populists in their ranks (hence why Leitch didn't do well), but they there are lots of populists who vote Conservative. Our polling suggests a not insignificant percentage of Canadians have right-populist views. So, I could see a conservative populist movement forming from outside the Conservative Party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on December 22, 2017, 03:58:18 PM
The CHP and Libertarians would probably win seats; don't think anyone else would.

As for splits, I think this would be a more interesting question. Honestly, I think only the Conservatives would, but not right away. Some socialists in the NDP would probably form their own party too and would win a few seats.

Agreed. I wonder if the Liberals would split? If they don't, we basically get Italy 1945-1990, where the big party makes a deal with a different opposition party each election. The other big question is hwo the Tories would split. Everyone keeps saying on PC/Reform lines, but I think that's a little antiquated (and let's be honest, what's really left of the old PC's in the Tories anyway). I would guess they split along orthodox conservative/populist lines.



I think the obvious split would be between social conservatives vs. libertarians (aka Sheer vs Bernier), but the Conservative Party doesn't have that many populists in their ranks (hence why Leitch didn't do well), but they there are lots of populists who vote Conservative. Our polling suggests a not insignificant percentage of Canadians have right-populist views. So, I could see a conservative populist movement forming from outside the Conservative Party.

What about the market for a Blue Liberal/Red Tory type party which would be to the right of the Liberals but left of the Tories.  Certainly historically there was a large number of voters in this area but not sure how many today.  True some like the Ontario PCs under Brown and BC Liberals conquer this segment well but I think its more they have the right wing base locked up and need to find a way to pick up the additional votes to put them over the top.  In Europe you have many parties like this, in fact most parties in power would fall in this category.  Certainly post merger the Tories have swung rightward while the Liberals under Trudeau have swung leftward so I think there is a spot on the spectrum where your John Manley type Liberals and Joe Clark type Tories could form a party, but not sure if many would vote for it or are we too polarized.  In the UK, the Liberal Democrats are not far off the median voter but since they have no chance at winning people tend to go for whichever party they fear less of the main two (Labour vs. Tories) so would be interesting.

Do you know when Ekos will release the national numbers as I heard on TVO, Frank Graves saying the tracking has the Tories ahead federally unlike other polls?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 22, 2017, 05:02:11 PM
Well, we just wrapped up a pretty big poll, and have already released dribs and drabs, but I'm not sure if and when we'll do a full release.

Something we should be releasing soon talks about what I mentioned in my last post vis-a-vis right wing populism in Canada, and will hopefully include some maps I made :)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 22, 2017, 07:59:01 PM
Well, we just wrapped up a pretty big poll, and have already released dribs and drabs, but I'm not sure if and when we'll do a full release.

Something we should be releasing soon talks about what I mentioned in my last post vis-a-vis right wing populism in Canada, and will hopefully include some maps I made :)


Decent maps from a pollster? Ideological polling? Merry Christmas to Atlas haha.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on December 22, 2017, 11:38:45 PM
[the Conservative Party doesn't have that many populists in their ranks (hence why Leitch didn't do well), but they there are lots of populists who vote Conservative.

Yeah, the Conservatives are a pretty "orthodox" small-"c" conservative party. 

Kellie Leitch was a pretty dreadful populist though.  She had no charisma whatsoever and came across as reading Trump talking points from a teleprompter.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 23, 2017, 02:16:43 AM
[the Conservative Party doesn't have that many populists in their ranks (hence why Leitch didn't do well), but they there are lots of populists who vote Conservative.

Yeah, the Conservatives are a pretty "orthodox" small-"c" conservative party. 

Kellie Leitch was a pretty dreadful populist though.  She had no charisma whatsoever and came across as reading Trump talking points from a teleprompter.

Kevin O'Leary didn't fully catch on either.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on December 23, 2017, 08:56:00 AM
Well, we just wrapped up a pretty big poll, and have already released dribs and drabs, but I'm not sure if and when we'll do a full release.

Something we should be releasing soon talks about what I mentioned in my last post vis-a-vis right wing populism in Canada, and will hopefully include some maps I made :)


Decent maps from a pollster? Ideological polling? Merry Christmas to Atlas haha.

:) The plan is to have me make more maps in the future. Might as well use my interests for good use!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 24, 2017, 07:02:24 AM
[the Conservative Party doesn't have that many populists in their ranks (hence why Leitch didn't do well), but they there are lots of populists who vote Conservative.

Yeah, the Conservatives are a pretty "orthodox" small-"c" conservative party. 

Kellie Leitch was a pretty dreadful populist though.  She had no charisma whatsoever and came across as reading Trump talking points from a teleprompter.

Kevin O'Leary didn't fully catch on either.

He wasn't really a proper Trumpist either. Much too libertarian. If you could mix Leitch's views with O'Leary's bombast, you would have had a solid populist candidate.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on December 24, 2017, 04:19:12 PM
[the Conservative Party doesn't have that many populists in their ranks (hence why Leitch didn't do well), but they there are lots of populists who vote Conservative.

Yeah, the Conservatives are a pretty "orthodox" small-"c" conservative party. 

Kellie Leitch was a pretty dreadful populist though.  She had no charisma whatsoever and came across as reading Trump talking points from a teleprompter.

Kevin O'Leary didn't fully catch on either.

He wasn't really a proper Trumpist either. Much too libertarian. If you could mix Leitch's views with O'Leary's bombast, you would have had a solid populist candidate.

I liked O’Leary’s views...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 29, 2017, 12:59:16 PM
An interesting enough year end interview between hack Post Media Columnist John Ivison and Conservative Party leader Andrew Scheer.  

Andrew Scheer, in my opinion, continues to show his Scheer Stupidity by largely answering questions with vague references:  "I believe the problem with Liberals is that they don't care about the results of their policies, they just care about the intentions that they show.  They wrap themselves up in emotion about sending a signal about what they care about. The effects of their policies are usually terrible but they try to gloss over that."

No doubt this answer is partly inspired by the growing view that the Justin Trudeau Liberal government addresses a good number of issues through symbolism, but my guess is if Scheer had been asked which of these policies resulted in terrible effects he would have looked like a deer caught in the headlights.

Or, Andrew Scheer answers with right wing platitudes: "Here's what the Conservative Party stands for.  It's based on greater individual freedom of belief and a trust in free people making free decisions in a free market, not government control and government deciding things."

Interestingly, Ivison did test Scheer on this with a question about a specific government policy: does Scheer support the new law to ban (or limit) advertising to those under 13?

Scheer "I'll be voting against that bill.  I don't believe the government needs to help me the parent.  I can do that."

I wonder what outgoing Premier Brad Wall would say to Scheer about that:

Brad Wall:
“We’re a free-enterprise party. We believe in markets. But we also have to respect that Saskatchewan people aren’t really interested in ideology … they’re interested in results and they’re also interested in a government reflecting their priorities.”

I could be wrong, but I think most parents will be glad to see the result of having these sorts of advertisements banned, recognizing, unlike Andrew Scheer, that companies that heavily market to young children aren't dealing with adults capable of providing informed consent, which is actually an important principle for the proper workings of free markets.  Edit to add: this legislation is actually the work of Conservative Senator Nancy Greene Raine.

Of course, both Scheer and Wall are in opposition to the carbon tax.  

Finally, and I thought most interesting is Scheer's view of what Trump and the Republican Party are doing in the United States:  'At the same time, our biggest trading partner is trying to make its economy more competitive."

Recognizing that, of course, both Conservatives and blue Liberals would likely be in support of the lowering corporate tax rate especially those as (nominally) high as 35%, it certainly is interesting that Scheer regards the U.S adding an additional $100-150 billion a year to its deficit as well as gutting environmental and consumer regulations as making 'its economy more competitive.'

I think there is no question that Andrew Scheer Stupidity is completely in over his head. Nice smile though.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 29, 2017, 01:23:30 PM
As an addendum:  what strikes me as the most clear in that interview and from seeing Scheer's leadership in the Commons during the last session, is Scheer has a clear philosophical direction when it comes to economics despite his reliance on vague generalities and right wing platitudes:  he is essentially a 'small government' U.S Republican.

A hack like Ivison is clearly mostly impressed with Scheer's platitudes of 'fighting for the average person and not being an elitist'  (refreshingly, at least in the published interview, Scheer, to his credit did not use the words 'elite' or 'elitist' even once)  but it is clear that Scheer's platitudes of being 'an average person' (unlike Prime Minister Justin Trudeau)  and fighting for 'freedom' are straight from the U.S Republican Party buzz word playbook.

Scheer's economic policies are clearly 'freedom for corporations.'  This is most evident in his party's opposition to the small business tax changes that took away benefits from the wealthiest small business owners and professionals, his opposition to the carbon tax, his opposition to banning advertising aimed at those under 13, and his apparent belief that gutting environmental and consumer regulations make "an economy more competitive."



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 01, 2018, 08:10:07 AM
It's a bit late, but CRA's quarterly Atlantic Canada poll was released in December:

Nova Scotia
Liberal: 38% (-7)
Tory: 29% (nc)
NDP: 27% (+5)

New Brunswick
Liberal: 47% (nc)
Tory: 28% (-4)
NDP: 11% (-1)
Green: 9% (+2)

Newfoundland
Liberal: 44% (+4)
Tory: 33% (nc)
NDP: 19% (-5)

Prince Edward Island
Liberal: 37% (-8)
Tory: 28% (+4)
Green: 25% (+7)
NDP: 11% (-1)

Obviously the PEI result is most interesting but who knows how that translates into seats. PEI is a crapshoot. Otherwise nothing too crazy.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 01, 2018, 10:05:21 AM
It's a bit late, but CRA's quarterly Atlantic Canada poll was released in December:

Nova Scotia
Liberal: 38% (-7)
Tory: 29% (nc)
NDP: 27% (+5)

New Brunswick
Liberal: 47% (nc)
Tory: 28% (-4)
NDP: 11% (-1)
Green: 9% (+2)

Newfoundland
Liberal: 44% (+4)
Tory: 33% (nc)
NDP: 19% (-5)

Prince Edward Island
Liberal: 37% (-8)
Tory: 28% (+4)
Green: 25% (+7)
NDP: 11% (-1)

Obviously the PEI result is most interesting but who knows how that translates into seats. PEI is a crapshoot. Otherwise nothing too crazy.


I guess nothing came of the 2 Nova Scotia NDP executives resigning their positions.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 02, 2018, 07:11:32 AM
It's a bit late, but CRA's quarterly Atlantic Canada poll was released in December:

Nova Scotia
Liberal: 38% (-7)
Tory: 29% (nc)
NDP: 27% (+5)

New Brunswick
Liberal: 47% (nc)
Tory: 28% (-4)
NDP: 11% (-1)
Green: 9% (+2)

Newfoundland
Liberal: 44% (+4)
Tory: 33% (nc)
NDP: 19% (-5)

Prince Edward Island
Liberal: 37% (-8)
Tory: 28% (+4)
Green: 25% (+7)
NDP: 11% (-1)

Obviously the PEI result is most interesting but who knows how that translates into seats. PEI is a crapshoot. Otherwise nothing too crazy.


I guess nothing came of the 2 Nova Scotia NDP executives resigning their positions.

Yeah. No one outside of political junkies cared.... Progressive wing of the NDP is more firmly in control there now with centrists on the outside looking in.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 02, 2018, 12:51:23 PM
CP talks about sexual harassment on the Hill, a lot of harassers were fellow MPs. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/02/mps-share-stories-sexual-misconduct-off-parliament-hill/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 02, 2018, 10:30:01 PM
CP talks about sexual harassment on the Hill, a lot of harassers were fellow MPs. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/02/mps-share-stories-sexual-misconduct-off-parliament-hill/)

To the surprise of no one in Ottawa. There are a lot of things that go down in this town that go unreported. The media feels much safer reporting on an MP using tax dollars to pay for a $10 glass of orange juice rather than any kind of sex scandal.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on January 04, 2018, 10:48:08 PM
Conservatives kick Senator Lynn Beyak out of their caucus

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/ottawa/lynn-beyak-kicked-out-conservative-caucus-1.4474130


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on January 05, 2018, 06:25:15 PM
Conservatives kick Senator Lynn Beyak out of their caucus

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/ottawa/lynn-beyak-kicked-out-conservative-caucus-1.4474130

Good. But it’s still disappointing that Scheer didn’t do this much earlier. Beyak’s views on residential schools have been well-known for a while.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 05, 2018, 06:44:28 PM
There are so many Tory senators who should also get the boot. Next should be Nicole Eaton.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 06, 2018, 05:46:19 AM
CP talks about sexual harassment on the Hill, a lot of harassers were fellow MPs. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/02/mps-share-stories-sexual-misconduct-off-parliament-hill/)

To the surprise of no one in Ottawa. There are a lot of things that go down in this town that go unreported. The media feels much safer reporting on an MP using tax dollars to pay for a $10 glass of orange juice rather than any kind of sex scandal.

Quote
Twenty-two MPs who said they had personally experienced some form of sexual misconduct in office chose to answer a question about the perpetrators, with five saying it came from an MP from her own party. Ten said it came from an MP in a different political party.

I can kind of understand taking one for the team, but reporting pervy messages from an opposing MP should be a slam dunk. There's no Tory/Lib/NDP news source that wants to make their opponents look bad?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 07, 2018, 12:48:14 PM
CP talks about sexual harassment on the Hill, a lot of harassers were fellow MPs. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/02/mps-share-stories-sexual-misconduct-off-parliament-hill/)

To the surprise of no one in Ottawa. There are a lot of things that go down in this town that go unreported. The media feels much safer reporting on an MP using tax dollars to pay for a $10 glass of orange juice rather than any kind of sex scandal.

Quote
Twenty-two MPs who said they had personally experienced some form of sexual misconduct in office chose to answer a question about the perpetrators, with five saying it came from an MP from her own party. Ten said it came from an MP in a different political party.

I can kind of understand taking one for the team, but reporting pervy messages from an opposing MP should be a slam dunk. There's no Tory/Lib/NDP news source that wants to make their opponents look bad?

Well, I was thinking more of things along the lines of infidelity and the like. There are so many rumours out there, but nothing in the news.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 07, 2018, 04:36:59 PM
CP talks about sexual harassment on the Hill, a lot of harassers were fellow MPs. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/02/mps-share-stories-sexual-misconduct-off-parliament-hill/)

To the surprise of no one in Ottawa. There are a lot of things that go down in this town that go unreported. The media feels much safer reporting on an MP using tax dollars to pay for a $10 glass of orange juice rather than any kind of sex scandal.

Quote
Twenty-two MPs who said they had personally experienced some form of sexual misconduct in office chose to answer a question about the perpetrators, with five saying it came from an MP from her own party. Ten said it came from an MP in a different political party.

I can kind of understand taking one for the team, but reporting pervy messages from an opposing MP should be a slam dunk. There's no Tory/Lib/NDP news source that wants to make their opponents look bad?

Well, I was thinking more of things along the lines of infidelity and the like. There are so many rumours out there, but nothing in the news.

I am sure with the lifestyle politicians lead and the time away from work, this probably happens quite a bit.  Mind you infidelity as long as consensual shouldn't be an issue for the general public, yes maybe enough for their spouse creating a divorce, but doesn't matter to the public at large.  On the other hand sexual harassment that is serious.  It might though be smaller numbers in Canada than say US or UK simply due to turnover of MPs as only a handful of the current MPs were there a decade ago and I think a lot of it happened more in the past when there was less awareness of it.  In many ways the whole Clarence Thomas scandal was when sexual harassment actually got discussed and in some ways the turning point although much still happens since, but before that it was sadly widely accepted.

I think where it could be more newsworthy is in places where the margins are razor thin.  In the UK, if enough Tory or DUP MPs get nailed, they could lose their majority triggering another election.  In BC after the Kelowna West by-election is held (which the BC Liberals will almost certainly hold), you only need two NDP/Greens caught in this to bring the government down and same in Nova Scotia with their Liberals, whereas federally there is a big enough cushion that while embarrassing and looking bad no chance of the government falling.  In the US also big in the senate due to how close and the fact any seats the Democrats pick up before midterms there increases their chances of gaining control of the senate.  Won't change the house where GOP has a solid majority (which they can and likely will lose in midterms).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 08, 2018, 09:16:41 AM
Kings North MLA John Lohr is running for the Nova Scotia PC leadership.

No news stories yet, but his website says he's running. (http://www.johnlohr.ca)

The only other candidate is Pictou East MLA Tim Houston, who has received the endorsement of five MLAs


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on January 11, 2018, 03:08:10 AM
The leadership election for the Alberta Party, which will conclude on February 27th, looks like it's shaping up to be a three-person race to succeed former leader Greg Clark. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-4) While candidates have until January 15th to enter the race, it seems unlikely at this point that anyone else will step forward. The currently-declared candidates are as follows (alphabetical by last name):

Rick Fraser: MLA for Calgary-South East since 2012. Fraser was elected as a Progressive Conservative MLA in both 2012 and 2017. He initially joined the UCP in July, but left the party to sit as an Independent in September while decrying the increasing polarization in Alberta politics. Prior to his election, he was a paramedic, and was for a time the President of the CUPE union local which represented a majority of Alberta paramedics. Concurrent with his leadership announcement, he also crossed the floor to the Alberta Party in the legislature, bringing the party caucus to 3 MLAs.

Kara Levis: Calgary-based lawyer for Transcanada Corporation and President of the National Womens' Liberal Commission (womens' engagement arms of the Federal Liberal party). Levis was also a founder of the non-profit Ask Her, which was active in the 2017 Calgary municipal election encouraging more women to put themselves forwards as candidates for City Council.

Stephen Mandel: best known as being the Mayor of Edmonton between 2004 and 2013, and a strong advocate for urban and social issues. He also served as Health Minister in Jim Prentice's brief PC government, and was MLA for Edmonton-Whitemud between November 2014 and May 2015. Prior to his entry into politics, he was President of the Mandel Group (a real estate company), and was and continues to be active with a number of community organizations in Edmonton. He was also, as of recent, appointed Chancellor of Concordia University in Edmonton.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: NewYorkExpress on January 12, 2018, 02:57:21 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html)

Quote
A Canadian man who was accused of sexually exploiting a 13-year-old girl was allowed back in school after a judge moved to delay his sentence so he could finish his college courses.

Connor Neurauter, 21, a University of Calgary student, pleaded guilty in November to “one count of sexual interference with a minor," the Toronto Star reported. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail, two years of probation and must register as a sex offender.

Neurauter began serving his sentence Jan. 4 but a judge is allowing him to serve his remaining time after he finishes his spring semester at the university, the Toronto Star reported.

When Neurauter was 18-years-old, he requested photos from a 13-year-old girl and the two had a short relationship. The teenager alleged Neurauter “choked her before giving her a bra as a present,” the BBC reported. Neurauter threatened to show the nude photos of her to her family if she did not keep quiet about the relationship. The girl was not named due to a publication ban.

The University of Calgary has not expelled Neurauter but advised him to “not return to campus for the remainder of the term.” The school said they could not expel him because the incident occurred before he was a student at the university.

Shouldn't there be laws covering this?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on January 12, 2018, 03:15:24 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html)

Quote
A Canadian man who was accused of sexually exploiting a 13-year-old girl was allowed back in school after a judge moved to delay his sentence so he could finish his college courses.

Connor Neurauter, 21, a University of Calgary student, pleaded guilty in November to “one count of sexual interference with a minor," the Toronto Star reported. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail, two years of probation and must register as a sex offender.

Neurauter began serving his sentence Jan. 4 but a judge is allowing him to serve his remaining time after he finishes his spring semester at the university, the Toronto Star reported.

When Neurauter was 18-years-old, he requested photos from a 13-year-old girl and the two had a short relationship. The teenager alleged Neurauter “choked her before giving her a bra as a present,” the BBC reported. Neurauter threatened to show the nude photos of her to her family if she did not keep quiet about the relationship. The girl was not named due to a publication ban.

The University of Calgary has not expelled Neurauter but advised him to “not return to campus for the remainder of the term.” The school said they could not expel him because the incident occurred before he was a student at the university.

Shouldn't there be laws covering this?

Covering which part of this? He was sentenced, so by definition there were laws covering this, though it's arguable that they weren't applied stringently enough. For the part of the University, as the article explains, they can't do anything regarding his student status because he was not a student at the time that this occurred.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on January 12, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html)

Quote
A Canadian man who was accused of sexually exploiting a 13-year-old girl was allowed back in school after a judge moved to delay his sentence so he could finish his college courses.

Connor Neurauter, 21, a University of Calgary student, pleaded guilty in November to “one count of sexual interference with a minor," the Toronto Star reported. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail, two years of probation and must register as a sex offender.

Neurauter began serving his sentence Jan. 4 but a judge is allowing him to serve his remaining time after he finishes his spring semester at the university, the Toronto Star reported.

When Neurauter was 18-years-old, he requested photos from a 13-year-old girl and the two had a short relationship. The teenager alleged Neurauter “choked her before giving her a bra as a present,” the BBC reported. Neurauter threatened to show the nude photos of her to her family if she did not keep quiet about the relationship. The girl was not named due to a publication ban.

The University of Calgary has not expelled Neurauter but advised him to “not return to campus for the remainder of the term.” The school said they could not expel him because the incident occurred before he was a student at the university.

Shouldn't there be laws covering this?

Yes. The moment short jail terms are done can be ajusted to allow for work/studies.
The ultimate endgoal is than the person still stay in the society.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 13, 2018, 11:28:04 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html)

Quote
A Canadian man who was accused of sexually exploiting a 13-year-old girl was allowed back in school after a judge moved to delay his sentence so he could finish his college courses.

Connor Neurauter, 21, a University of Calgary student, pleaded guilty in November to “one count of sexual interference with a minor," the Toronto Star reported. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail, two years of probation and must register as a sex offender.

Neurauter began serving his sentence Jan. 4 but a judge is allowing him to serve his remaining time after he finishes his spring semester at the university, the Toronto Star reported.

When Neurauter was 18-years-old, he requested photos from a 13-year-old girl and the two had a short relationship. The teenager alleged Neurauter “choked her before giving her a bra as a present,” the BBC reported. Neurauter threatened to show the nude photos of her to her family if she did not keep quiet about the relationship. The girl was not named due to a publication ban.

The University of Calgary has not expelled Neurauter but advised him to “not return to campus for the remainder of the term.” The school said they could not expel him because the incident occurred before he was a student at the university.

Shouldn't there be laws covering this?

Covering which part of this? He was sentenced, so by definition there were laws covering this, though it's arguable that they weren't applied stringently enough. For the part of the University, as the article explains, they can't do anything regarding his student status because he was not a student at the time that this occurred.

I can't understand why the university can't act on the basis that he did not disclose any of this.  I think this is a fairly tough issue because there are legitimate competing interests, but I certainly think it's fair to argue that he should be required to serve time and take rehab courses while in jail before a university lets him back on their campus.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on January 15, 2018, 10:21:40 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/12/sex-offenders-sentence-delayed-so-can-finish-college.html)

Quote
A Canadian man who was accused of sexually exploiting a 13-year-old girl was allowed back in school after a judge moved to delay his sentence so he could finish his college courses.

Connor Neurauter, 21, a University of Calgary student, pleaded guilty in November to “one count of sexual interference with a minor," the Toronto Star reported. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail, two years of probation and must register as a sex offender.

Neurauter began serving his sentence Jan. 4 but a judge is allowing him to serve his remaining time after he finishes his spring semester at the university, the Toronto Star reported.

When Neurauter was 18-years-old, he requested photos from a 13-year-old girl and the two had a short relationship. The teenager alleged Neurauter “choked her before giving her a bra as a present,” the BBC reported. Neurauter threatened to show the nude photos of her to her family if she did not keep quiet about the relationship. The girl was not named due to a publication ban.

The University of Calgary has not expelled Neurauter but advised him to “not return to campus for the remainder of the term.” The school said they could not expel him because the incident occurred before he was a student at the university.

Shouldn't there be laws covering this?

Covering which part of this? He was sentenced, so by definition there were laws covering this, though it's arguable that they weren't applied stringently enough. For the part of the University, as the article explains, they can't do anything regarding his student status because he was not a student at the time that this occurred.

I can't understand why the university can't act on the basis that he did not disclose any of this.  I think this is a fairly tough issue because there are legitimate competing interests, but I certainly think it's fair to argue that he should be required to serve time and take rehab courses while in jail before a university lets him back on their campus.

I'm not sure where in the process of applying to university this would have come up. That said, I agree that his sentence shouldn't have been moved, and that he should have served his sentence before coming back to attend classes.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on January 17, 2018, 02:17:47 PM
BC Supreme Court has ruled solitary confinement is unconstitutional

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/solitary-confinement-in-canadian-prisons-ruled-unconstitutional-1.4491526 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/solitary-confinement-in-canadian-prisons-ruled-unconstitutional-1.4491526)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 19, 2018, 06:56:30 AM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on January 19, 2018, 04:36:39 PM
Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 19, 2018, 04:41:07 PM
Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

My understanding is it is not just churches affected but every employer has to more or less sign off saying they support the right to abortion.  Otherwise any employer in any position who opposes abortion personally even if completely unrelated to the job could have it cut off.  I think groups that have opposing abortion as their main mission absolutely should have summer grant jobs cut off, but I don't think you have to ask each employer what they personally think, that is going a bit overboard.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 19, 2018, 10:59:33 PM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.

I agree what the Liberals are doing is heavy handed, but, of course, there is a right to abortion in the Charter.  That was why the Supreme Court struck down the law against abortion in 1987.  The Supreme Court did not say that the government of Canada could not pass any law that would have regulated abortion, but it did declare a basic right to abortion.  To state anything else is completely dishonest.

There was a letter to the editor in the Vancouver Sun today stating the same falsehood.  This seems to be the talking point for social conservative groups.  I think they have a strong argument in terms of whatever the Canadian equivalent of 'due process and equal protection' is, so it's a shame they're trying to use a dishonest argument.

From wiki: The majority of the Court held that "the structure of the system regulating access to therapeutic abortions is manifestly unfair. It contains so many potential barriers to its own operation that the [exception] it creates will in many circumstances be practically unavailable to women who would prima facie qualify." Noted barriers included all-male TACs, doctors who did not wish to refer matters to TACs, and geographical and financial differentials in treatment. As such, the provision was held to violate the principles of fundamental justice and was struck down, leaving Canada with a legislative vacuum to this day.

The majority of the court in Morgentaler did not find that there was a substantive right to abortion under Section 7, as this was only explicitly argued by Wilson. The court found it unnecessary to consider whether the substance of section 7 implies a right to abortion, but instead made its decision on procedural grounds.

So, the court definitely ruled that there is a basic right to abortion in Canada, but it 'found it unnecessary' to state whether the Charter implied a fundamental right.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In terms of 'due process and equal protection' I think these groups could certainly argue they are being discriminated against in terms of having a broad question like that be asked to apply for a grant when the funding these groups want the grant for has nothing to do with abortion.

I think Prime Minister Justin Trudeau pretty much admitted this when he defended the government's new policy here with a ridiculous false binary along the lines of 'we either have legal abortions or we fund these groups.'

I don't normally watch At Issue, but I read on Twitter that Andrew Coyne was outraged that the Liberal government was trying to demonize anti abortion types.  I agree with him that that is the ultimate aim of the Liberal government here.  I disagree with the Liberals methods here, but I can sympathize with the idea of pro choice groups and feminists trying to make those who want to make abortion illegal again in Canada out to be pariahs.  For instance, Andrew Scheer played his usual simple minded politics on this, but I can just imagine how outraged he'd be if the Liberals gave a grant to an organization that as part of its mandate wanted to (re)legalize adults being able to have relationships with minors, even if the grant had nothing to do with that, specifically.  

I don't think that's all that minor either, although it's certainly something most people wouldn't publicly state or advocate for, after all, Roy Moore did get 49% of the vote in Alabama.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 19, 2018, 11:14:19 PM
Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

The churches do a lot of good work that probably can't be easily replaced.  I don't care much for 'but who will think of the children?' arguments, but in this case, they are the ones who would literally be hurt by this heavy handed policy.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on January 20, 2018, 05:58:46 PM
Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

The churches do a lot of good work that probably can't be easily replaced.  I don't care much for 'but who will think of the children?' arguments, but in this case, they are the ones who would literally be hurt by this heavy handed policy.

Bible Camps are mainly religious indoctrination. Give the money to towns to organise music or science summer camps.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 20, 2018, 06:30:42 PM
Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

The churches do a lot of good work that probably can't be easily replaced.  I don't care much for 'but who will think of the children?' arguments, but in this case, they are the ones who would literally be hurt by this heavy handed policy.

Bible Camps are mainly religious indoctrination. Give the money to towns to organise music or science summer camps.

Maybe I'm biased, but when I was a student I had friends who went to Bible Camp and they were decent people.  Religious groups may be anti-abortion but we don't have large numbers of Southern Baptists here in Canada.  Even most of the Baptists in Canada that I know (I live in an urban area, so maybe they're more moderate) aren't Southern Baptists.

As far as I can tell, to the degree that they're 'indoctrinated,' the lessons they learn are to be kind and to help others.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 20, 2018, 08:47:14 PM
Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

The churches do a lot of good work that probably can't be easily replaced.  I don't care much for 'but who will think of the children?' arguments, but in this case, they are the ones who would literally be hurt by this heavy handed policy.

Bible Camps are mainly religious indoctrination. Give the money to towns to organise music or science summer camps.

::)

Adam and Miles I'm busy now but will address your points when I get a chance.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 23, 2018, 08:34:39 PM
Leitch retiring.  (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-shunned-values-crusader-kellie-leitchs-political-career-comes-to-its-inevitable-end)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Chunk Yogurt for President! on January 23, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.

Do pro-lifers even have any influence in Canadian politics?  Why would they even need to marginalize them?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 24, 2018, 04:15:19 AM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.

Do pro-lifers even have any influence in Canadian politics?  Why would they even need to marginalize them?

I think that's a decent question, but I think that so many, I assume, sincere people, have falsely claimed in response to this story that 'there is no right to an abortion in Canada', shows that anti abortion activists do have a great deal of sympathy in Canada, even among people who are primarily pro choice.

Also, there were many parts of Canada until recently, especially the Atlantic provinces, where getting an abortion used to be difficult.

Finally, this isn't just about anti abortion, it's also about gay rights.  In the minority Liberal government just before the 2006 election, more than 30 social conservative Liberals voted against protections for the LGBTQ community.   And, of course, the sleazy Jason Kenney in Alberta is still playing whistle dog anti LGBTQ. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 24, 2018, 05:53:15 AM
Kind of a loaded question, but who are considered to be the rising stars (a brazen term, sure) in the Liberal Party at the moment? Asking for a Timeline.

A bit premature given that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is barely half way through his first term.  In terms of those who are considered to be the best performers in cabinet, nearly all of them have 'blotted their copybook' at least once, but from my vantage point as an interested observer (I'm no insider), I would look at:

1.Environment Minister Catherine McKenna.  Once the carbon tax (carbon pricing) goes into effect, I think we'll get a better sense of her capabilities.

2.Justice Minister Jody Wilson Raybould.  Obviously has had significant problems with the missing and murdered aboriginal women's inquiry to the degree that she's responsible for it, but seems to be a generally highly capable person.

3.Indigenous Services Minister Jane Philpott.  Moved recently from the Health Ministry where she was regarded as having performed well.  The Health ministry is sort of a 'sexy role' in that most Canadians I'm pretty sure think that it's one of the top responsible ministries, but the provinces are actually responsible for health services (other than to indigenous Canadians) and the main responsibilities of the ministry are just public health and some of the responsibilities that in the United States are part of the Food and Drug Administration.

4.International Trade Minister Francois Philip Champagne.  I know just a little while ago people were asking "what does he do?" since the Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland is still responsible for the U.S trade portfolio.

5.Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland.  I think she is the one undisputed 'star' of this government.

So, there is only one male in this group.  Partly this is because the ones who I'd say are the most capable male cabinet ministers: Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr and Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale are in their mid 60s.

Of those not in cabinet, the ones who seem to be getting the best notices on the back bench, from what I've heard, or were getting the best notices are Kim Rudd and Pamela Goldsmith Jones.
 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 24, 2018, 07:13:36 AM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.

I agree what the Liberals are doing is heavy handed, but, of course, there is a right to abortion in the Charter.  That was why the Supreme Court struck down the law against abortion in 1987.  The Supreme Court did not say that the government of Canada could not pass any law that would have regulated abortion, but it did declare a basic right to abortion.  To state anything else is completely dishonest.

There was a letter to the editor in the Vancouver Sun today stating the same falsehood.  This seems to be the talking point for social conservative groups.  I think they have a strong argument in terms of whatever the Canadian equivalent of 'due process and equal protection' is, so it's a shame they're trying to use a dishonest argument.

From wiki: The majority of the Court held that "the structure of the system regulating access to therapeutic abortions is manifestly unfair. It contains so many potential barriers to its own operation that the [exception] it creates will in many circumstances be practically unavailable to women who would prima facie qualify." Noted barriers included all-male TACs, doctors who did not wish to refer matters to TACs, and geographical and financial differentials in treatment. As such, the provision was held to violate the principles of fundamental justice and was struck down, leaving Canada with a legislative vacuum to this day.

For someone who loves to throw out the words "falsehood" and "dishonest", you have quite the habit of declaring there to be no nuance on an issue when there clearly is.

Even a quick skim of wiki and your own post finds that

a) The decision was made on procedural grounds
b) R v. Mortgentaler precedent isn't even binding
c) Only Justice Wilson found there to be a substantive right to an abortion under section 7 of the Charter

The majority of the court in Morgentaler did not find that there was a substantive right to abortion under Section 7, as this was only explicitly argued by Wilson. The court found it unnecessary to consider whether the substance of section 7 implies a right to abortion, but instead made its decision on procedural grounds.

So, the court definitely ruled that there is a basic right to abortion in Canada, but it 'found it unnecessary' to state whether the Charter implied a fundamental right.

The second paragraph doesn't follow from the first one at all.

Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

My understanding is it is not just churches affected but every employer has to more or less sign off saying they support the right to abortion.  Otherwise any employer in any position who opposes abortion personally even if completely unrelated to the job could have it cut off.  I think groups that have opposing abortion as their main mission absolutely should have summer grant jobs cut off, but I don't think you have to ask each employer what they personally think, that is going a bit overboard.

Why though? If other political advocacy groups can get  them, why not pro-life ones?



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 24, 2018, 07:24:16 AM
In other news, some of my Tory sources tell me that Cecil Clarke, former MLA for Cape Breton North and current mayor of Cape Breton is planning on running for the Nova Scotia Tory leadership, and is planning to declare in early February. That would bring the field to three.

Leitch retiring.  (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-shunned-values-crusader-kellie-leitchs-political-career-comes-to-its-inevitable-end)

Good


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 24, 2018, 10:08:05 AM
Re: abortion: This is just the Liberals dog whistling to their base. Social issues are the great divider, after all. If they can make the debate about social issues, they can deflect from their shortcomings like on electoral reform.

Re: Catherine McKenna being a possible rising star.   🤢🤢🤢 ok, well I'm still mad at her beating Paul Dewar and her being a strong MP/cabinet minister will cement Ottawa Centre into a safe Liberal seat like it is provincially.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Jeppe on January 24, 2018, 11:45:38 AM
I was actually talking about rising stars in Trudeau’s government and how most were women. People were complaining about Trudeau’s gender-equal cabinet, but I think maybe there should be more women than men, given how low-profile or scandal-prone the men seem to be (Bill Morneau, Kent Hehr, Harjit Sajjan, and Hunter Tootoo). On another note, Carla Qualtrough has been doing really well, it seems, well enough to have gotten a higher profile cabinet posting in the last shake-up.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 24, 2018, 12:00:23 PM
Re: abortion: This is just the Liberals dog whistling to their base. Social issues are the great divider, after all. If they can make the debate about social issues, they can deflect from their shortcomings like on electoral reform.

Re: Catherine McKenna being a possible rising star.   🤢🤢🤢 ok, well I'm still mad at her beating Paul Dewar and her being a strong MP/cabinet minister will cement Ottawa Centre into a safe Liberal seat like it is provincially.

She is quite polarizing.  Progressives like her, but amongst conservatives she is probably the most hated cabinet minister.  Actually as silly as it sounds the NDP's best chance in Ottawa Centre might be to convince Conservatives (who have zero chance at winning there) to strategically vote NDP as most Conservatives despise Catherine McKenna and would love to defeat her.  I also think being called Climate Barbie and being hated by the Rebel media is probably a plus for her as most Canadians find the Rebel media quite extreme, while some might have some sympathy for her being called Climate Barbie especially amongst women who see this as just another example of misogyny.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 24, 2018, 10:09:26 PM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.

I agree what the Liberals are doing is heavy handed, but, of course, there is a right to abortion in the Charter.  That was why the Supreme Court struck down the law against abortion in 1987.  The Supreme Court did not say that the government of Canada could not pass any law that would have regulated abortion, but it did declare a basic right to abortion.  To state anything else is completely dishonest.

There was a letter to the editor in the Vancouver Sun today stating the same falsehood.  This seems to be the talking point for social conservative groups.  I think they have a strong argument in terms of whatever the Canadian equivalent of 'due process and equal protection' is, so it's a shame they're trying to use a dishonest argument.

From wiki: The majority of the Court held that "the structure of the system regulating access to therapeutic abortions is manifestly unfair. It contains so many potential barriers to its own operation that the [exception] it creates will in many circumstances be practically unavailable to women who would prima facie qualify." Noted barriers included all-male TACs, doctors who did not wish to refer matters to TACs, and geographical and financial differentials in treatment. As such, the provision was held to violate the principles of fundamental justice and was struck down, leaving Canada with a legislative vacuum to this day.

For someone who loves to throw out the words "falsehood" and "dishonest", you have quite the habit of declaring there to be no nuance on an issue when there clearly is.

Even a quick skim of wiki and your own post finds that

a) The decision was made on procedural grounds
b) R v. Mortgentaler precedent isn't even binding
c) Only Justice Wilson found there to be a substantive right to an abortion under section 7 of the Charter

The majority of the court in Morgentaler did not find that there was a substantive right to abortion under Section 7, as this was only explicitly argued by Wilson. The court found it unnecessary to consider whether the substance of section 7 implies a right to abortion, but instead made its decision on procedural grounds.

So, the court definitely ruled that there is a basic right to abortion in Canada, but it 'found it unnecessary' to state whether the Charter implied a fundamental right.

The second paragraph doesn't follow from the first one at all.

Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

My understanding is it is not just churches affected but every employer has to more or less sign off saying they support the right to abortion.  Otherwise any employer in any position who opposes abortion personally even if completely unrelated to the job could have it cut off.  I think groups that have opposing abortion as their main mission absolutely should have summer grant jobs cut off, but I don't think you have to ask each employer what they personally think, that is going a bit overboard.

Why though? If other political advocacy groups can get  them, why not pro-life ones?



That is simply not true, the procedural reasoning to strike down the law on abortion was informed by Section 7. 

In the 1980s, Morgentaler was prosecuted again for providing abortions. In 1988, his case R. v Morgentaler went to the Supreme Court, which evaluated his actions this time in relation to the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The court found that the Criminal Code provision on abortion violated a woman's right to "life, liberty and security of the person" guaranteed under Section 7 of the Charter.

Wrote Chief Justice Brian Dickson: "Forcing a woman, by threat of criminal sanction to carry a foetus to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman's body and thus a violation of her security of the person."

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/abortion/

Since then, there have also been court rulings striking down provincial rules against private abortion clinics.

So, it's bullsh**t to say there is no basic right to an abortion in Canada.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 24, 2018, 10:11:48 PM
Re: abortion: This is just the Liberals dog whistling to their base. Social issues are the great divider, after all. If they can make the debate about social issues, they can deflect from their shortcomings like on electoral reform.

Re: Catherine McKenna being a possible rising star.   🤢🤢🤢 ok, well I'm still mad at her beating Paul Dewar and her being a strong MP/cabinet minister will cement Ottawa Centre into a safe Liberal seat like it is provincially.

Yes, I think this is more about the Liberals under Justin Trudeau and their repeated use of symbolic acts than about anything of real substance.  Not that this isn't important for a fair number of people.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 24, 2018, 10:14:08 PM
Re: abortion: This is just the Liberals dog whistling to their base. Social issues are the great divider, after all. If they can make the debate about social issues, they can deflect from their shortcomings like on electoral reform.

Re: Catherine McKenna being a possible rising star.   🤢🤢🤢 ok, well I'm still mad at her beating Paul Dewar and her being a strong MP/cabinet minister will cement Ottawa Centre into a safe Liberal seat like it is provincially.

She is quite polarizing.  Progressives like her, but amongst conservatives she is probably the most hated cabinet minister.  Actually as silly as it sounds the NDP's best chance in Ottawa Centre might be to convince Conservatives (who have zero chance at winning there) to strategically vote NDP as most Conservatives despise Catherine McKenna and would love to defeat her.  I also think being called Climate Barbie and being hated by the Rebel media is probably a plus for her as most Canadians find the Rebel media quite extreme, while some might have some sympathy for her being called Climate Barbie especially amongst women who see this as just another example of misogyny.

I don't think she's all that polarizing for most Canadians.  Just for the remaining dimwitted climate change/global warming deniers.  I.E idiots like Gerry Ritz.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 24, 2018, 11:55:58 PM
Re: abortion: This is just the Liberals dog whistling to their base. Social issues are the great divider, after all. If they can make the debate about social issues, they can deflect from their shortcomings like on electoral reform.

Re: Catherine McKenna being a possible rising star.   🤢🤢🤢 ok, well I'm still mad at her beating Paul Dewar and her being a strong MP/cabinet minister will cement Ottawa Centre into a safe Liberal seat like it is provincially.

I am a moderate conservative and I don't particularly like her, find her quite arrogant and condescending.  Chrystia Freeland, Ralph Goodale, and Marc Garneau would be me top choices but I think you have some other potential ones too.  Jane Phipott is one I am interestingly watching as she has a very difficult portfolio and if she can succeed where others haven't I will give her all credit, but its a portfolio that is tough to get any major results in short timeframe.
She is quite polarizing.  Progressives like her, but amongst conservatives she is probably the most hated cabinet minister.  Actually as silly as it sounds the NDP's best chance in Ottawa Centre might be to convince Conservatives (who have zero chance at winning there) to strategically vote NDP as most Conservatives despise Catherine McKenna and would love to defeat her.  I also think being called Climate Barbie and being hated by the Rebel media is probably a plus for her as most Canadians find the Rebel media quite extreme, while some might have some sympathy for her being called Climate Barbie especially amongst women who see this as just another example of misogyny.

I don't think she's all that polarizing for most Canadians.  Just for the remaining dimwitted climate change/global warming deniers.  I.E idiots like Gerry Ritz.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 25, 2018, 08:49:04 AM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.

I agree what the Liberals are doing is heavy handed, but, of course, there is a right to abortion in the Charter.  That was why the Supreme Court struck down the law against abortion in 1987.  The Supreme Court did not say that the government of Canada could not pass any law that would have regulated abortion, but it did declare a basic right to abortion.  To state anything else is completely dishonest.

There was a letter to the editor in the Vancouver Sun today stating the same falsehood.  This seems to be the talking point for social conservative groups.  I think they have a strong argument in terms of whatever the Canadian equivalent of 'due process and equal protection' is, so it's a shame they're trying to use a dishonest argument.

From wiki: The majority of the Court held that "the structure of the system regulating access to therapeutic abortions is manifestly unfair. It contains so many potential barriers to its own operation that the [exception] it creates will in many circumstances be practically unavailable to women who would prima facie qualify." Noted barriers included all-male TACs, doctors who did not wish to refer matters to TACs, and geographical and financial differentials in treatment. As such, the provision was held to violate the principles of fundamental justice and was struck down, leaving Canada with a legislative vacuum to this day.

For someone who loves to throw out the words "falsehood" and "dishonest", you have quite the habit of declaring there to be no nuance on an issue when there clearly is.

Even a quick skim of wiki and your own post finds that

a) The decision was made on procedural grounds
b) R v. Mortgentaler precedent isn't even binding
c) Only Justice Wilson found there to be a substantive right to an abortion under section 7 of the Charter

The majority of the court in Morgentaler did not find that there was a substantive right to abortion under Section 7, as this was only explicitly argued by Wilson. The court found it unnecessary to consider whether the substance of section 7 implies a right to abortion, but instead made its decision on procedural grounds.

So, the court definitely ruled that there is a basic right to abortion in Canada, but it 'found it unnecessary' to state whether the Charter implied a fundamental right.

The second paragraph doesn't follow from the first one at all.

Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

My understanding is it is not just churches affected but every employer has to more or less sign off saying they support the right to abortion.  Otherwise any employer in any position who opposes abortion personally even if completely unrelated to the job could have it cut off.  I think groups that have opposing abortion as their main mission absolutely should have summer grant jobs cut off, but I don't think you have to ask each employer what they personally think, that is going a bit overboard.

Why though? If other political advocacy groups can get  them, why not pro-life ones?



That is simply not true, the procedural reasoning to strike down the law on abortion was informed by Section 7. 

In the 1980s, Morgentaler was prosecuted again for providing abortions. In 1988, his case R. v Morgentaler went to the Supreme Court, which evaluated his actions this time in relation to the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The court found that the Criminal Code provision on abortion violated a woman's right to "life, liberty and security of the person" guaranteed under Section 7 of the Charter.

Wrote Chief Justice Brian Dickson: "Forcing a woman, by threat of criminal sanction to carry a foetus to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman's body and thus a violation of her security of the person."

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/abortion/

Since then, there have also been court rulings striking down provincial rules against private abortion clinics.

So, it's bullsh**t to say there is no basic right to an abortion in Canada.

Again such strong words from someone who pays so little attention to nuance.

As I noted above, the wiki article for R v Mortgentaler notes that the decision was not binding precedent. Furthermore even the Canadian Encyclopedia article you cited notes there is no inherent right to an abortion.

I'm less familiar with ether provincial cases. Could you point me to their reasoning and where they imply there is a right to an abortion?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 25, 2018, 08:53:59 AM
Jamie Baillie has resigned due to sexual harassment allegations (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/nova-scotia/jamie-baillie-resigns-inappropriate-behaviour-1.4501742)

Baillie is the luckiest politician in quite sometime because on the same day...

 Patrick Brown has resigned due to even worse sexual misconduct allegations. (https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/patrick-brown-denies-sexual-misconduct-allegations-from-two-women-resigns-as-ontario-pc-leader-1.3774686)

Also, I would like to point out that I called Brown's scandal months ago. I will now accept my accolades.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 25, 2018, 09:00:56 AM
Re: abortion: This is just the Liberals dog whistling to their base. Social issues are the great divider, after all. If they can make the debate about social issues, they can deflect from their shortcomings like on electoral reform.

I agree. However, the story seems to be generating far more negative  attention than positive. Even the Toronto Star criticised the attestation.

It seems to have backfired and become a (minor) losing issue for them. Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 25, 2018, 09:59:17 AM
Kent Hehr has been accused on Twitter of creeping female staffers in elevators while an MLA.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 25, 2018, 11:59:43 AM
Mainstreet has been releasing a bunch of provincial polls. The most surprising is PEI:

Greens: 36 :o
PC: 30
Liberals: 29
NDP: 5

First time ever the Greens have led in a province wide poll before


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 25, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
Here are some more numbers:

BC
NDP: 39
Liberals: 34
Greens: 28 (another big number for the Greens)

With PR coming it, it's a shame they didn't ask about the Conservatives...

Manitoba
PC: 40
NDP: 37(fairly good result at this stage!)
Liberals: 13
Greens: 10

Saskatchewan
Sask Party: 51
NDP: 34
Liberals: 9
Greens: 6

Not such good numbers there

Alberta
UCP: 56
NDP: 27 :(
Alta Party: 7
Liberals: 7
Greens: 3

Newfoundland
Liberals: 44
PCs: 41
NDP: 15 :(

Quebec
CAQ: 32
PLQ: 31
PQ: 18
QS: 15


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 25, 2018, 12:27:28 PM
Holy crap PEI!!!

What happened to the NDP in Saskatchewan? I thought they were neck and neck with SP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 25, 2018, 02:01:25 PM
Holy crap PEI!!!

What happened to the NDP in Saskatchewan? I thought they were neck and neck with SP.

Brad Wall is resigning so like many outgoing leaders their numbers tend to shoot up.  Obama's approval rating shot up by almost 10% in the final year for the same reason.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: NewYorkExpress on January 25, 2018, 03:38:46 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-25/ontario-opposition-leader-quits-over-sexual-misconduct-claims (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-25/ontario-opposition-leader-quits-over-sexual-misconduct-claims)

Quote
The opposition party in Canada’s most populous province will select an interim leader Friday after the former head resigned overnight in the wake of sexual misconduct allegations.

Patrick Brown, 39, stepped down early Thursday as leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario after two women accused him of unwanted sexual advances when they were teenagers, and said Brown had provided them with alcohol, according to reports on CTV News.

The party’s caucus will meet to choose an interim leader, deputy leader Sylvia Jones said at a press conference in Toronto. Jones didn’t indicate whether the interim head would lead the party in June elections, or if a leadership convention would be held before then.

So, assuming a leadership convention is held, who becomes the new leader? Also, how does this impact the Progressive Conservative party's chances in the June elections?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 25, 2018, 03:59:55 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-25/ontario-opposition-leader-quits-over-sexual-misconduct-claims (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-25/ontario-opposition-leader-quits-over-sexual-misconduct-claims)

Quote
The opposition party in Canada’s most populous province will select an interim leader Friday after the former head resigned overnight in the wake of sexual misconduct allegations.

Patrick Brown, 39, stepped down early Thursday as leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario after two women accused him of unwanted sexual advances when they were teenagers, and said Brown had provided them with alcohol, according to reports on CTV News.

The party’s caucus will meet to choose an interim leader, deputy leader Sylvia Jones said at a press conference in Toronto. Jones didn’t indicate whether the interim head would lead the party in June elections, or if a leadership convention would be held before then.

So, assuming a leadership convention is held, who becomes the new leader? Also, how does this impact the Progressive Conservative party's chances in the June elections?

It hurts their chances, but a lot will depend on what happens in the coming weeks and whom is the next leader.  In a few weeks we will have a better idea of how severe the damage is.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 25, 2018, 08:51:04 PM
Trudeau has slipped into illiberal liberalism by requiring that Canada Summer Jobs grant applicants tick a box attesting to their mandate not interfering with Charter rights, including "the right to access safe and legal abortions" (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/summer-job-program-changes-anger-churches-1.4490237)

Of course there is no right to abortion in the Charter, but that does not deter our PM from discriminating against other Charter rights such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and freedom of religion.

To top it off, Labour Minister Patty Hajdu has insisted that the application does not discriminate against churches, despite its shoddy wording and has suggested that churches violate their consciences and sign it anyway. What a farce.

I agree what the Liberals are doing is heavy handed, but, of course, there is a right to abortion in the Charter.  That was why the Supreme Court struck down the law against abortion in 1987.  The Supreme Court did not say that the government of Canada could not pass any law that would have regulated abortion, but it did declare a basic right to abortion.  To state anything else is completely dishonest.

There was a letter to the editor in the Vancouver Sun today stating the same falsehood.  This seems to be the talking point for social conservative groups.  I think they have a strong argument in terms of whatever the Canadian equivalent of 'due process and equal protection' is, so it's a shame they're trying to use a dishonest argument.

From wiki: The majority of the Court held that "the structure of the system regulating access to therapeutic abortions is manifestly unfair. It contains so many potential barriers to its own operation that the [exception] it creates will in many circumstances be practically unavailable to women who would prima facie qualify." Noted barriers included all-male TACs, doctors who did not wish to refer matters to TACs, and geographical and financial differentials in treatment. As such, the provision was held to violate the principles of fundamental justice and was struck down, leaving Canada with a legislative vacuum to this day.

For someone who loves to throw out the words "falsehood" and "dishonest", you have quite the habit of declaring there to be no nuance on an issue when there clearly is.

Even a quick skim of wiki and your own post finds that

a) The decision was made on procedural grounds
b) R v. Mortgentaler precedent isn't even binding
c) Only Justice Wilson found there to be a substantive right to an abortion under section 7 of the Charter

The majority of the court in Morgentaler did not find that there was a substantive right to abortion under Section 7, as this was only explicitly argued by Wilson. The court found it unnecessary to consider whether the substance of section 7 implies a right to abortion, but instead made its decision on procedural grounds.

So, the court definitely ruled that there is a basic right to abortion in Canada, but it 'found it unnecessary' to state whether the Charter implied a fundamental right.

The second paragraph doesn't follow from the first one at all.

Good, mainly because I don't think "Canada Summer Jobs" money should not go to churches.

My understanding is it is not just churches affected but every employer has to more or less sign off saying they support the right to abortion.  Otherwise any employer in any position who opposes abortion personally even if completely unrelated to the job could have it cut off.  I think groups that have opposing abortion as their main mission absolutely should have summer grant jobs cut off, but I don't think you have to ask each employer what they personally think, that is going a bit overboard.

Why though? If other political advocacy groups can get  them, why not pro-life ones?



That is simply not true, the procedural reasoning to strike down the law on abortion was informed by Section 7.  

In the 1980s, Morgentaler was prosecuted again for providing abortions. In 1988, his case R. v Morgentaler went to the Supreme Court, which evaluated his actions this time in relation to the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The court found that the Criminal Code provision on abortion violated a woman's right to "life, liberty and security of the person" guaranteed under Section 7 of the Charter.

Wrote Chief Justice Brian Dickson: "Forcing a woman, by threat of criminal sanction to carry a foetus to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman's body and thus a violation of her security of the person."

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/abortion/

Since then, there have also been court rulings striking down provincial rules against private abortion clinics.

So, it's bullsh**t to say there is no basic right to an abortion in Canada.

Again such strong words from someone who pays so little attention to nuance.

As I noted above, the wiki article for R v Mortgentaler notes that the decision was not binding precedent. Furthermore even the Canadian Encyclopedia article you cited notes there is no inherent right to an abortion.

I'm less familiar with ether provincial cases. Could you point me to their reasoning and where they imply there is a right to an abortion?

Nope, you are wrong.  

From the wiki article it states 'there is no binding precedent' because the reasons for the majority opinions differed with 3 different opinions being written.  So, essentially, the lack of binding precedent says nothing about whether there is a basic right to an abortion and is a meaningless point.

In regards to the opinions, Dickson joined by Lamar's opinion was informed by Section 7 even if he did not base his ruling on section 7.  That is, that if Dickson had felt that the only problem with the abortion law was procedural, he could have struck down only those administrative sections, instead he struck down the entire law.  It is clear that the reason for that is that he and Lamar felt that a basic right to an abortion does exist (I write 'basic' in this case, because the courts would likely uphold any law that placed greater restrictions on abortion the later into the pregnancy, which is essentially the ruling of Roe V. Wade.)

Wilson based her rulings on Section 251, 7 and 2.


Of course, that likely means that since that 4 of the justices (2 justices did not take part in the hearing) ruled on narrower grounds, that, at that time, there was no 'inherent' right to an abortion.


However, since then there have been several additional rulings that have touched on abortion rights, and all of them have been in favor:

1.1991: The Supreme Court rules in the Sullivan/Lemay case that two midwives were not negligent in the death of a fetus, because it is not a person with legal rights until born alive.

2.1999: The Supreme Court rules in Dobson v. Dobson that children cannot sue their mother for injuries suffered in the womb while pregnant.

3.The two rulings in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia that struck down laws against abortion clinics in those provinces.  I actually can't find any information on those rulings at this time, however:

Prince Edward Island expects to be providing abortions by the end of the year, as the country's last holdout gave up its opposition in the face of a legal challenge from a women's advocacy group. The last elective abortion on the island was in 1982.

Liberal Premier Wade MacLauchlan, who also serves as Justice Minister, said the government is announcing its historic about-face on abortion now because a 90-day period to respond to a notice of a legal challenge ends Monday.

"I think the character of all places changes and evolves," he told The Globe and Mail on Thursday. "It's one of those things that comes at its time."

Mr. MacLauchlan, a former law dean at the University of New Brunswick who grew up in PEI, cited women's right to equality in health care as a key reason for the change – accepting that the challenge under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, begun in January by Abortion Access Now PEI Inc., was correct in law.

"I believe it's true that government has the right to decide what health-care services are available under the Canada Health Act. That wasn't the basis on which we formed the view that a change was in order. Rather, it was that we are currently funding the service in Moncton and Halifax. The question becomes whether on equality grounds, it could be justified not to provide the service in the province."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/pei-to-allow-abortions/article29474278/

Also, what has been written by some in the National Post, and I believe by you, that only rights explicitly stated in the charter exist, was also shot down by the R v Morgentaler:

"A dissent was written by McIntyre J, with La Forest J concurring. McIntyre found that there was no right to an abortion under section 7 nor under other laws. His argument was based on the role of judicial review and how the courts must not go about creating rights not explicitly found in the Charter nor interpret Charter rights to protect interests that the rights were not initially intending to protect. He said that nowhere in any constitutional texts, history or philosophies is there support for any such rights. Furthermore, there is no societal consensus that these interests should be protected either."

Only 2 of the 7 judges agreed with that.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 25, 2018, 08:59:58 PM
And again, while I believe it's more than clear that there is a right to an abortion in Canada, even if it's not 'inherently' an absolute right, I oppose this heavy handed regulation.

Even on first blush, NDP M.P Nathan Cullen opposed it:

OTTAWA — New Democrat MP Nathan Cullen has apologized for criticizing the Trudeau government's decision to force groups applying for summer-job grants to affirm their respect for a woman's right to have an abortion.

The apology came hours after Cullen criticized the way the Liberals added the new requirement to the Canada Summer Jobs program, which helps employers subsidize the cost of hiring students for summer work.

The requirement stipulates that an applicant must affirm that both the job description and the group's core mandate respect human rights, including reproductive rights.

Cullen initially called the new requirement "offensive" during a news conference on Wednesday, and compared it to the Harper government's decision to cut funding for foreign aid groups that supported abortion.

But he took to Twitter a few hours later to say he was sorry "for the harm from my comments," and asserted that he and the federal NDP are "fiercely pro-choice."

"I reacted to concerns raised by groups in my riding on the government's first statement on the policy," Cullen wrote.

A subsequent clarification earlier this week from the department responsible for the program "put those fears to rest," he added.

Since the clarification changed nothing, obviously Cullen was just looking for a way to get back onside. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 25, 2018, 10:42:57 PM
Kent Hehr has been accused on Twitter of creeping female staffers in elevators while an MLA.

Kent Hehr is finally out of cabinet.  I've thought there was something off about that guy for about a year now.

I think the three most obvious to replace him in cabinet are:
1.Randy Boissonnault, the other Liberal M.P from Alberta (but from Edmonton.) Boissonnault is presently the Parliamentary Secretary (or something like that) to the Prime Minister with responsibilities for LBGTQ issues. So, he is sort of already a junior minister.

2.Dan Vandal as Manitoba has been down a representative in Cabinet since Mary Ann Mihychuk was dropped.  Dan Vandal is also a former professional boxer who has a degree in social work.

3.Stephen Fuhr, the Liberal M.P from Kelowna.  Kelowna is probably geographically closest to Calgary of all non cabinet ministers (except for Boissonnault.)  Fuhr is presently the Chair of the Defense Committee.  

However I don't know that I see much of a fit for Fuhr to become Minister of Sport and Persons with Disabilities. As I've written before, I'd like to see a wider shuffle with Finance Minister Morneau also dropped (hopefully after the next budget) and Vandal, Fuhr and Celina Caesar Chavennes or Kim Rudd all added in.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 25, 2018, 10:50:25 PM
Here are some more numbers:

BC
NDP: 39
Liberals: 34
Greens: 28 (another big number for the Greens)

With PR coming it, it's a shame they didn't ask about the Conservatives...

Manitoba
PC: 40
NDP: 37(fairly good result at this stage!)
Liberals: 13
Greens: 10

Saskatchewan
Sask Party: 51
NDP: 34
Liberals: 9
Greens: 6

Not such good numbers there

Alberta
UCP: 56
NDP: 27 :(
Alta Party: 7
Liberals: 7
Greens: 3

Newfoundland
Liberals: 44
PCs: 41
NDP: 15 :(

Quebec
CAQ: 32
PLQ: 31
PQ: 18
QS: 15

Did the Green Party pay for most of these polls?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 26, 2018, 09:50:24 AM
Well, the Greens do tend to over-poll with IVR


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 26, 2018, 11:02:01 AM
Well, the Greens do tend to over-poll with IVR

I've found they tend to overpoll whenever prompted and only when unprompted do they go down.  Also they tend to poll higher in between elections than what they get on election day suggesting many who don't like any of the options park their vote there, but when it comes time to vote they swing behind one of the main parties.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on January 26, 2018, 01:46:29 PM
Jamie Baillie has resigned due to sexual harassment allegations (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/nova-scotia/jamie-baillie-resigns-inappropriate-behaviour-1.4501742)

Baillie is the luckiest politician in quite sometime because on the same day...

 Patrick Brown has resigned due to even worse sexual misconduct allegations. (https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/patrick-brown-denies-sexual-misconduct-allegations-from-two-women-resigns-as-ontario-pc-leader-1.3774686)

Also, I would like to point out that I called Brown's scandal months ago. I will now accept my accolades.

Whoa, that is some stunning accusations against Patrick Brown, he was my local MP for 10+ years and having a home town boy in Queens Park would have been sort of cool, despite him being Conservative. He certainly smashed the Conservative stereotype of grumpy old men running the party. I added him on Facebook as well like 10 years ago, and there was lots of pictures of him at local bars, I was wondering WTF was he doing at all those bars if he did not drink. Maybe he went so he could creep on young drunk women?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 29, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
I've heard rumours there is a much bigger explosive sex scandal lurking that will hit someone a lot higher up and bigger than Patrick Brown.  Not sure if there is any truth in these rumours, but it would not surprise me if by year's end someone even higher up the food chain gets taken down.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 29, 2018, 09:29:13 PM
Kinsella all but named the man. In her latest, Hebert says there's a lot more #MeToo inbound for all 3 parties.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 29, 2018, 09:49:58 PM
Kinsella all but named the man. In her latest, Hebert says there's a lot more #MeToo inbound for all 3 parties.

Wonder when this will blow up.  I suspect a whole bunch of politicians will get swept out of office on the #metoo.  Could even impact not just Ontario election, but also Quebec and New Brunswick if any leader is involved (not suggesting any are, just saying in terms of implications).  Likewise in BC, if two or more NDP/Greens get named the government could potentially fall (not suggesting this will happen just saying a possible implication). 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 29, 2018, 09:58:37 PM
If what they claim is true, then when was the last time the entire political establishment of a country was decapitated on such a scale?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 29, 2018, 10:09:17 PM
If what they claim is true, then when was the last time the entire political establishment of a country was decapitated on such a scale?

The only one I can think of is Saskatchewan in the early 90s when several cabinet ministers of the Grant Devine government went to prison. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on January 30, 2018, 01:07:39 AM
If what they claim is true, then when was the last time the entire political establishment of a country was decapitated on such a scale?

Brazil in the past few years?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on January 30, 2018, 01:21:51 AM
If what they claim is true, then when was the last time the entire political establishment of a country was decapitated on such a scale?

Well, since this is a thread about Canada, how about the 1993 federal election?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: NewYorkExpress on January 30, 2018, 02:43:13 AM
I've heard rumours there is a much bigger explosive sex scandal lurking that will hit someone a lot higher up and bigger than Patrick Brown.  Not sure if there is any truth in these rumours, but it would not surprise me if by year's end someone even higher up the food chain gets taken down.

Couldn't it be Trudeau, could it?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: super6646 on January 30, 2018, 02:57:56 AM
If what they claim is true, then when was the last time the entire political establishment of a country was decapitated on such a scale?

Well, since this is a thread about Canada, how about the 1993 federal election?

What a time. Was 3 years old and had no clue what was really going on, but the look on the mp's of the PC's that night as they dropped like flies is something I will never forget.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on January 30, 2018, 09:30:27 AM
I've heard rumours there is a much bigger explosive sex scandal lurking that will hit someone a lot higher up and bigger than Patrick Brown.  Not sure if there is any truth in these rumours, but it would not surprise me if by year's end someone even higher up the food chain gets taken down.

Couldn't it be Trudeau, could it?

That seems to be the implication (as well as Scheer, possibly?)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on January 30, 2018, 12:43:09 PM
It could be many.  From reading Warren Kinsella's postings and Chantal Hebert's recent column, looks like there will be multiple politicians brought down and in more than one party.  Interesting times ahead.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 30, 2018, 12:47:33 PM
I've heard rumours there is a much bigger explosive sex scandal lurking that will hit someone a lot higher up and bigger than Patrick Brown.  Not sure if there is any truth in these rumours, but it would not surprise me if by year's end someone even higher up the food chain gets taken down.

Couldn't it be Trudeau, could it?

That seems to be the implication (as well as Scheer, possibly?)

Possibly, although I think it's more likely to be at the cabinet/critic level.

Kinsella all but named the man. In her latest, Hebert says there's a lot more #MeToo inbound for all 3 parties.

To quote Kinsella:

Quote
Hearing at least one more Tory MP is in big trouble – and that he, along with various Liberals (elected and otherwise) are very, very nervous…


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 30, 2018, 06:52:47 PM
Trudeau tells CBC that he's confident no one will accuse him, and he's been careful all his life to be respectful of women. Says accusers must be believed but there also has to be an independent investigation. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-careful-metoo-1.4511093?cmp=rss)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: super6646 on January 30, 2018, 07:38:36 PM
While I've always been skeptical of the #MeToo movement, its going to be very interesting seeing just how many politicans are in for a sh!tshow.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on January 30, 2018, 09:49:16 PM
Apparently one of the claims against JT is that he had a consensual relationship with a male conservative staffer, and that both parties were aware during the 2015 election. If that's really it, this is a nothingburger.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 31, 2018, 06:26:55 AM
Apparently one of the claims against JT is that he had a consensual relationship with a male conservative staffer, and that both parties were aware during the 2015 election. If that's really it, this is a nothingburger.

If true, he was cheating on his wife, so that's got to count for something... *sigh* who am I kidding, you're probably right.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: cp on January 31, 2018, 08:31:27 AM
If true, I want to know whether any more of my Canadian politics slash fiction stories might actually be real :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 31, 2018, 10:10:55 AM
Wow!

So, all three parties have skeletons in the closet? I wonder who in the NDP has been naughty... I haven't heard any rumours myself.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on January 31, 2018, 11:56:32 AM
Apparently one of the claims against JT is that he had a consensual relationship with a male conservative staffer, and that both parties were aware during the 2015 election. If that's really it, this is a nothingburger.

If true, he was cheating on his wife, so that's got to count for something... *sigh* who am I kidding, you're probably right.

could be in an open relationship tbf


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on January 31, 2018, 01:26:53 PM
Apparently one of the claims against JT is that he had a consensual relationship with a male conservative staffer, and that both parties were aware during the 2015 election. If that's really it, this is a nothingburger.

If true, he was cheating on his wife, so that's got to count for something... *sigh* who am I kidding, you're probably right.

could be in an open relationship tbf
I'd believe that.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on January 31, 2018, 01:37:19 PM
Apparently one of the claims against JT is that he had a consensual relationship with a male conservative staffer, and that both parties were aware during the 2015 election. If that's really it, this is a nothingburger.

If true, he was cheating on his wife, so that's got to count for something... *sigh* who am I kidding, you're probably right.

could be in an open relationship tbf

I'd imagine it's somewhat common(?) for spouses to allow the other spouse to sleep with members of their own sex on the side, as pregnancy is not a concern.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on January 31, 2018, 11:59:38 PM
Apparently one of the claims against JT is that he had a consensual relationship with a male conservative staffer, and that both parties were aware during the 2015 election. If that's really it, this is a nothingburger.

If true, he was cheating on his wife, so that's got to count for something... *sigh* who am I kidding, you're probably right.

I remember reading sketchy rumours about Obama and Rahm Emanuel hitting the bath houses in Chicago, or Obama being lovers with his Pakistani college roommate. They were all BS, but still funny to read.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on February 01, 2018, 12:58:52 PM
Jagmeet Singh will be addressing the media at 1.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/singh-allegation-ndp-1.4514117?cmp=rss


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 01, 2018, 01:15:12 PM
Erin Weir suspended from caucus duties due to 3rd-party allegation. NDP doesn't yet have complainant's name.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 01, 2018, 03:28:25 PM
Looks like collateral damage from the #metoo movement in all parties.  Hopefully that will gain all of them to focus on cleaning things up instead of using this to score political points.  This is a serious problem that needs fixing.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on February 03, 2018, 12:41:38 AM
Former BC premier Dave Barrett, certainly one of the most colorful characters in Canadian politics, has died:

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/first-ndp-premier-of-b-c-dave-barrett-dead-at-87


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 04, 2018, 06:38:35 AM
Former Cape Breton North MLA and current Mayor of Cape Breton Cecil Clarke has entered the NS PC leadership race. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cecil-clarke-announcement-pc-leadership-plans-1.4518284) Clarke came out as gay last week in anticipation of his entry into the leadership. He has picked up the endorsement of Sydney River-Mira-Louisbourg MLA Alfie MacLeod.

Also, Cumberland North MLA Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin will be making an announcement on Tuesday.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 05, 2018, 01:08:22 PM
Okay its forum and its out of whack with other pollsters so probably one of the 1 in 20 http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2826/federal-horserace-january-2018/ . but FWIW interesting but probably not true.

Liberal support at 38% is not too far off other pollsters, but none have the Tories anywhere near 43% and likewise most have the NDP higher than 12% and Greens higher than 3% (the Greens always tend to poll higher in between elections, so they might get that come election day but I suspect the NDP or Liberals as opposed to Tories will benefit more).

Looking at the regional numbers

Atlantic Canada: Small sample but I don't buy for a minute the Tories are tied or over 40%.  Yes things have tightened up a bit there and the Tories may have crossed the 30% line, but most still show the Liberals 15-20 points ahead.

Quebec: This is the one region where the numbers actually seem reasonable.

Ontario: Some other polls have put the Tories over 40% so low 40s is believable, but 46% I highly doubt, even provincially where Wynne is a lot less popular than Trudeau, the provincial PCs don't have those type of numbers.

Saskatchewan/Manitoba: Unlike their past ones, the numbers here are at least somewhat believable.

Alberta: 68% is a bit on the high side for the Tories even in Alberta, but for all intents and purpose no matter what poll you use, you have the Tories winning the vast majority of seats so seat wise doesn't make that big a difference.

British Columbia: While 43% for the Tories is not impossible based on how they've done in the past, I have a tough time believing they are at that is most other pollsters show them below the 30% so while its possible in the right circumstances they could get those numbers, I don't believe they are there right now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on February 07, 2018, 12:32:01 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/wine-boycott-alberta-british-columbia-trans-mountain-1.4523473

Crazy Alberta Premier bans British Columbia wines.

Hopefully federal NDP wakes up and kick out that oil industry puppet out of the party, with every MLA that refuses to vote her out.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DavidB. on February 07, 2018, 02:53:38 AM
P e o p l e k i n d


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 07, 2018, 06:58:57 AM

That was a very silly clip.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/wine-boycott-alberta-british-columbia-trans-mountain-1.4523473

Crazy Alberta Premier bans British Columbia wines.

Hopefully federal NDP wakes up and kick out that oil industry puppet out of the party, with every MLA that refuses to vote her out.

Puppet? Good grief. Might I suggest Notley takes the stances she does because she wants to be re-elected and the Albertan public is generally pro-oil? If the NDP wants to lose elections on a principal that's their business, but let's stop this silly nonsense about someone who started their career in what was then a permanently minor party being a careerist puppet of industry.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 07, 2018, 07:08:01 AM
Rookie MLA for Cumberland North, Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin is running for NS PC leader (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rookie-mla-announces-run-for-pc-party-leadership-1.4522396), bringing the field to four. No other candidates are expected to run.

Scott Armstrong, former MP for Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley has endorsed her and will likely co-chair her campaign.

The standings for caucus endorsements are as follows:

Houston: 5
Clarke: 3
Lohr: 0
Smith-McCrossin: 0

Undeclared: 4
Neutral (interim leader): 1


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 07, 2018, 09:49:42 AM

That was a very silly clip.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/wine-boycott-alberta-british-columbia-trans-mountain-1.4523473

Crazy Alberta Premier bans British Columbia wines.

Hopefully federal NDP wakes up and kick out that oil industry puppet out of the party, with every MLA that refuses to vote her out.

Puppet? Good grief. Might I suggest Notley takes the stances she does because she wants to be re-elected and the Albertan public is generally pro-oil? If the NDP wants to lose elections on a principal that's their business, but let's stop this silly nonsense about someone who started their career in what was then a permanently minor party being a careerist puppet of industry.

Indeed. The cynic in me believes that she only way she can get re-elected is by attacking her own party. :P (and maybe Horgan is in on this too, and is a scheme to siphon off votes from the Greens)

It's unfortunate that this party is experiencing a civil war of sorts, but I must admit it is pretty damn amusing.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 07, 2018, 01:56:25 PM
I agree with the Alberta and BC feud are all tactical.  Considering how far back Notley is and that there is only 478 days left in her mandate, this is pretty much the only chance she has although even with this, I expect polls might tighten, but doubt it will be enough to overcome the gap.  In the case of BC, Horgan has probably figured there are few BC Liberal votes for taking, otherwise the party is down to its core so to win next time around he needs to pick up some Green votes.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ProgressiveCanadian on February 07, 2018, 02:19:44 PM
Notley has been nothing but a disappointment. Her father would be ashamed.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 07, 2018, 06:19:01 PM

That was a very silly clip.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/wine-boycott-alberta-british-columbia-trans-mountain-1.4523473

Crazy Alberta Premier bans British Columbia wines.

Hopefully federal NDP wakes up and kick out that oil industry puppet out of the party, with every MLA that refuses to vote her out.

Puppet? Good grief. Might I suggest Notley takes the stances she does because she wants to be re-elected and the Albertan public is generally pro-oil? If the NDP wants to lose elections on a principal that's their business, but let's stop this silly nonsense about someone who started their career in what was then a permanently minor party being a careerist puppet of industry.

Indeed. The cynic in me believes that she only way she can get re-elected is by attacking her own party. :P (and maybe Horgan is in on this too, and is a scheme to siphon off votes from the Greens)

It's unfortunate that this party is experiencing a civil war of sorts, but I must admit it is pretty damn amusing.

This may be the first time it's happened in the NDP, but it isn't the first time it's happened between two governments of the same party.  In the early 1980s, after the imposition of the National Energy Program, then Progressive Conservative Alberta Premier Peter Lougheed got into a civil war with then Progressive Conservative Ontario Premier Bill Davis who was a staunch supporter of the National Energy Program.

Lougheed's comment of "let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" was largely directed at Premier Bill Davis.

At that time, the two provincial and federal Progressive Conservative Parties were much more linked.  Davis' Big Blue (campaign) machine assisted the federal party as did the Alberta Progressive Conservatives and both Peter Lougheed and Bill Davis were considered as potential candidates in the 1983 federal Progressive Conservative leadership race.

I've written this a number of times before here: the reason this is considered a 'family fight' is because in order to join a New Democratic Party at any level (Federal, Provincial and, where existing municipal), you have to join at all levels.  If I recall correctly, Rachel Notley had previously threatened to try to split the Alberta NDP from the Federal NDP during the debate over the LEAP Manifesto.  I don't know if this civil war over a pipeline is a good reason to separate the parties, but overall I think it's by far a net negative to have all the NDP parties combined. 

I recently read Brad Levigne's book on the 'Orange Crush' and he also was unhappy with it, though for completely different reasons which I believe he said he successfully resolved.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 07, 2018, 06:38:04 PM

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau apologized for this, calling it a 'dumb joke.'  Watching the clip, it was clear most of the audience thought it was a joke.

However, people don't like it because they don't like the implications, but there are likely sound reasons for gender neutral language.  

I've been reading the book Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahenman and he mentions a phenomenon called the anchoring effect.  Unfortunately, in the book it only mentions this effect with numbers, but I don't see why it wouldn't apply to any language, including use of the term 'man' for people.

The example given in the book is a (statistically significant) group of people are asked 'Was Gandhi older than 141 years old when he died.  If not, how old was he when he died?"

I believe another (statistically significant) group of people are asked "was Gandhi younger than 10 when he died.  If not, how old was he when he died?"

(I realize Gandhi didn't just die, but was assassinated, but I presume the intention was to not provide any other information.)

Even though the people in both groups knew the '141 years of age' and 'the 10 years of age' were obviously not true and was, therefore, irrelevant information,  the people who were asked was he older than 141? gave a much longer life span than the people who were asked was he younger than 10?  The separation of the answers was greater than 50% (the 'older' group gave an answer of around 80 and the 'younger' group gave an answer of around 50.)

Kahneman then showed that this 'anchoring effect' occurs all the time with people (at least when numbers are involved)  and explains the two likely reasons for it that comport with 'fast thinking' and 'slow thinking.'  He ends with "people don't believe that obviously irrelevant information affects them personally. They are wrong."

Kahenman gives a couple reasons for that as well, mainly that it suggests that people don't fully have free will.  I think the explanation is even simpler than that: to realize you (and me) are influenced by irrelevant information means we're no where near as smart as we all like to think we are.

https://newrepublic.com/article/100050/reason-thinking-fast-slow-kahneman


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on February 07, 2018, 07:04:22 PM
Ten years ago, the idea of a gender-neutral anthem would have also been thought of as a dumb joke but yet here we are.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 07, 2018, 10:18:36 PM
Ten years ago, the idea of a gender-neutral anthem would have also been thought of as a dumb joke but yet here we are.

it was brought up 10 years ago, and it was thought of as a dumb joke. (Well, 17 years ago, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot_k59A5yrA)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 07, 2018, 11:12:00 PM
Ten years ago, the idea of a gender-neutral anthem would have also been thought of as a dumb joke but yet here we are.

20 years ago the idea that people would fall for 'anchoring' would have been thought of as a dumb joke, but yet here we are.





Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Dr. MB on February 08, 2018, 12:54:21 AM
Trudeau's been a failure of a PM. I have a hard time buying that the "peoplekind" thing was a joke – he seemed to be taking it pretty seriously. Shows even more he likes to focus on non-issues.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 08, 2018, 06:37:33 AM
Trudeau's been a failure of a PM. I have a hard time buying that the "peoplekind" thing was a joke – he seemed to be taking it pretty seriously. Shows even more he likes to focus on non-issues.

Eh, I very much dislike the guy and disapprove of (most) of his politics, but he's not a failure thus far. There has been a trickle of incidents where he and his government have come off as arrogant or self-interested (being only in favour of electoral reform so long as it benefits his party comes to mind) that he needs to get under control, but it's certainly not a disaster yet.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lechasseur on February 08, 2018, 07:44:02 AM
Trudeau's been a failure of a PM. I have a hard time buying that the "peoplekind" thing was a joke – he seemed to be taking it pretty seriously. Shows even more he likes to focus on non-issues.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 08, 2018, 09:54:09 AM
Trudeau's been a failure of a PM. I have a hard time buying that the "peoplekind" thing was a joke – he seemed to be taking it pretty seriously. Shows even more he likes to focus on non-issues.

Eh, I very much dislike the guy and disapprove of (most) of his politics, but he's not a failure thus far. There has been a trickle of incidents where he and his government have come off as arrogant or self-interested (being only in favour of electoral reform so long as it benefits his party comes to mind) that he needs to get under control, but it's certainly not a disaster yet.

"Disappointment" is the best word to use, I think.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 08, 2018, 10:09:11 AM
Trudeau's been a failure of a PM. I have a hard time buying that the "peoplekind" thing was a joke – he seemed to be taking it pretty seriously. Shows even more he likes to focus on non-issues.

Eh, I very much dislike the guy and disapprove of (most) of his politics, but he's not a failure thus far. There has been a trickle of incidents where he and his government have come off as arrogant or self-interested (being only in favour of electoral reform so long as it benefits his party comes to mind) that he needs to get under control, but it's certainly not a disaster yet.

"Disappointment" is the best word to use, I think.

Canadian conservatives are in a bubble every bit as much as U.S conservatives are.  They continue to believe that 'once Canadians comes to realize as we do that Trudeau is a dunce, support for the Liberals will decline."

The problem for them on that is, outside of their bubble, Canadians don't believe that.

What Canadians of all partisan stripes are increasingly believing is that Trudeau and this Liberal government advocate symbolism over substance.  If either the NDP or the Conservatives want to defeat the Liberals in 2019, I think that is the criticism of the Liberals they should adopt.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on February 08, 2018, 01:55:27 PM
Yes, the general opinion around here seems to be he's all talk and no action, but than it's not Harper, at least.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 08, 2018, 07:57:30 PM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario.  For the NDP, with Trudeau moving leftward, cannot see them winning, but I could see them having more influence.  If the Liberals drop to a minority, the NDP will hold the balance of power and could push through some of their policies.  Many progressive policies like Medicare and CPP happened in Liberal minority governments due to the NDP so you don't have to win to matter, you can have an impact even without winning.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 08, 2018, 08:16:44 PM
Peter Stoffer accused of sexual harassment. (http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/former-ndp-mp-peter-stoffer-denies-sex-misconduct-allegations)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on February 08, 2018, 11:02:44 PM
^ Horrible.  Reading that made me ill.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 09, 2018, 04:51:34 PM
I had heard some strange things about Stoffer (like refusing to use a computer), but hadn't heard that. Then again, I was never invited to the notorious 'all party party' that he hosted. Apparently lots of people knew though...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on February 09, 2018, 06:44:58 PM
He was voted Parliamentarian of the Year by MPs of all parties.  What does that say about the culture on Parliament Hill?

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/presenting-the-2013-parliamentarians-of-the-year/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 10, 2018, 07:51:48 AM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario. 

There's still time for a major scandal or the economy to take a downturn, but assuming neither of those happen, the trickle of unforced Liberal errors won't be good for anymore than a Tory minority and probably not even that. Eyeballing the polls, it looks like the Tories will take back a decent number of seats from the Liberals in Anglo Canada, but the Liberals will more or less break even by swallowing the NDP and Bloc Quebecois in Quebec.

Someone needs to emerge as a clear runner up in Quebec to force a minority (assuming the Tories don't pick up the pace in the ROC). The Liberals will run the table in Quebec if the polls hold and the result is something like 45-15-15-15


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on February 10, 2018, 09:56:51 AM
Scheer isn't helping himself every time he harps on and on about the Agha Khan, as if anyone south of Queensway cares.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 10, 2018, 01:44:39 PM
Scheer isn't helping himself every time he harps on and on about the Agha Khan, as if anyone south of Queensway cares.

What should he be pushing exactly? Liberal corruption sounds like a winning issue to me.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 10, 2018, 01:46:02 PM
Actually, I'd like to get the rooms opinion on this.

What issues/strategies should Scheer and Singh be pushing from now until the writ drops?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on February 10, 2018, 04:49:32 PM
Scheer isn't helping himself every time he harps on and on about the Agha Khan, as if anyone south of Queensway cares.

What should he be pushing exactly? Liberal corruption sounds like a winning issue to me.

The issue is than nobody I know thinks of that when they think of Liberal corruption.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 10, 2018, 05:16:52 PM
Scheer isn't helping himself every time he harps on and on about the Agha Khan, as if anyone south of Queensway cares.

Heh. That's the first time I've head the Quensway used the in same way as "The Beltway". :)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 10, 2018, 06:36:04 PM
Actually, I'd like to get the rooms opinion on this.

What issues/strategies should Scheer and Singh be pushing from now until the writ drops?

Symbolism over substance seems to be the biggest thing the public has concerns about.

As I wrote previously though, Canadian conservatives are in every bit as much of a bubble as American ones and they want red meat.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on February 10, 2018, 07:38:09 PM
Apparently one of the claims against JT is that he had a consensual relationship with a male conservative staffer, and that both parties were aware during the 2015 election. If that's really it, this is a nothingburger.

If true, he was cheating on his wife, so that's got to count for something... *sigh* who am I kidding, you're probably right.

I remember reading sketchy rumours about Obama and Rahm Emanuel hitting the bath houses in Chicago, or Obama being lovers with his Pakistani college roommate. They were all BS, but still funny to read.

> sketchy
> rumors


Pick one.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 10, 2018, 07:44:55 PM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario. 

There's still time for a major scandal or the economy to take a downturn, but assuming neither of those happen, the trickle of unforced Liberal errors won't be good for anymore than a Tory minority and probably not even that. Eyeballing the polls, it looks like the Tories will take back a decent number of seats from the Liberals in Anglo Canada, but the Liberals will more or less break even by swallowing the NDP and Bloc Quebecois in Quebec.

Someone needs to emerge as a clear runner up in Quebec to force a minority (assuming the Tories don't pick up the pace in the ROC). The Liberals will run the table in Quebec if the polls hold and the result is something like 45-15-15-15

With Andrew Scheer Stupidity as Conservative Party leader.  I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservatives lose another 20-30 seats in the next election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 10, 2018, 08:25:17 PM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario. 


There's still time for a major scandal or the economy to take a downturn, but assuming neither of those happen, the trickle of unforced Liberal errors won't be good for anymore than a Tory minority and probably not even that. Eyeballing the polls, it looks like the Tories will take back a decent number of seats from the Liberals in Anglo Canada, but the Liberals will more or less break even by swallowing the NDP and Bloc Quebecois in Quebec.

Someone needs to emerge as a clear runner up in Quebec to force a minority (assuming the Tories don't pick up the pace in the ROC). The Liberals will run the table in Quebec if the polls hold and the result is something like 45-15-15-15

With Andrew Scheer Stupidity as Conservative Party leader.  I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservatives lose another 20-30 seats in the next election.

Possible but the Tories are more or less down to their core now so I still think modest gains are more likely than losses.  While harping on the scandal may seem silly and most may not care, generally that is what opposition parties do, their job is not to be nice to the government but to go after their weaknesses.  Governments never lose on single issues, its when enough baggage develops.  At the moment the Liberals need a lot more baggage to lose, but as an opposition your goal is to speed that up.  The real problem the Tories face is with the NDP weakness it will likely be a two way race so even if they won 130 seats (not saying they will not just saying what if) they would still remain in opposition and the Liberals even at that could still get a majority.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 10, 2018, 08:31:52 PM
Actually, I'd like to get the rooms opinion on this.

What issues/strategies should Scheer and Singh be pushing from now until the writ drops?

I would say you should still go after those.  Saying no one cares is simply not true.  A more accurate statement is one scandal won't move the needle much, but if it happens repeatedly it will.  So its more you establish a pattern of behavior than one off.  Also Scheer and Singh need to develop policies but at the same time don't reveal too many now as any popular one they propose, the Liberals will just adopt so that is why you keep the powder dry until closer to the election so the Liberals cannot react.

For the NDP I would recommend the following.  Run on a truly progressive platform and focus on creating a new national program, I think pharmacare would be a good one or perhaps even guaranteed annual income or something along those lines.  Otherwise don't get to caught up on bringing PR or other left wing causes, focus on pocket book issues that will help those left behind.  Also promise to close the stock option loophole which the Liberals promised but haven't done yet and make affordability and helping those left behind the main theme.  Trudeau is appearing fairly left wing, but a lot of that is more talk than action.

For the Conservatives I would focus on fiscal responsibility and the upcoming economic challenges.  Otherwise things like lower taxes and balanced budgets for sure but those alone won't be enough.  Instead I think issues like an aging population, automation they should think of conservative solutions.  They could go the cultural wars route as I do get a sense seem feel Trudeau is pushing too far on the PC front, but that is extremely risky and go easily blow up in their face.  I think rather bold economic ideas that involve smaller government but will help create strong growth is where they should go.  Erin O'Toole, Andrew Saxton, Michael Chong, and Maxime Bernier all had much more detailed plans so use some of those.  Also Ontario, Quebec, and Alberta elections will be interesting as they can learn from those.  If the Ontario PCs, CAQ, and UCP win (not a given but quite possible) they should probably try and adopt some of their more popular policies while if they lose figure out why and stay away from those.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on February 10, 2018, 09:25:16 PM
Scheer isn't helping himself every time he harps on and on about the Agha Khan, as if anyone south of Queensway cares.

What should he be pushing exactly? Liberal corruption sounds like a winning issue to me.

Nobody ever explained what was the quid pro quo in exchange for the vacation, and the polls show that voters have simply tuned out.

Scheer should, if he is cunning, learn from Harper's ruthlessness and willingness to silence his backbenchers whose bozo eruptions doomed the 2004 Conservative campaign. But the landscape will be even worse than in 2004, since the Liberals will be eager to attack him as Harper-lite. Worse, they could attack him as Trump-lite, a charge that he will find hard to refute without alienating his base.

Before anyone says the Conservatives are at their bottom and could only go back up, keep in mind that the Liberals were in the exact same position a decade ago (30% of the vote, 100 or so seats, a leadership race that leads to an upset by a not-a-leader who goes on to lose byelections to the government). And frankly, when they're actually posting nonsense like this (https://twitter.com/coryhann/status/940469449596977152), it doesn't look like they really understand why they're where they are.

The NDP should appeal to those who voted Liberal and feel disappointed at a government that is basically Harper-lite with a smile. They could point out that some of Canada's biggest social achievements were done under a Liberal minority that depended on NDP support, and make inroads in inner-city ridings to at least offset their expected losses in Quebec.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 10, 2018, 09:52:46 PM
Scheer isn't helping himself every time he harps on and on about the Agha Khan, as if anyone south of Queensway cares.

What should he be pushing exactly? Liberal corruption sounds like a winning issue to me.

Nobody ever explained what was the quid pro quo in exchange for the vacation, and the polls show that voters have simply tuned out.

Scheer should, if he is cunning, learn from Harper's ruthlessness and willingness to silence his backbenchers whose bozo eruptions doomed the 2004 Conservative campaign. But the landscape will be even worse than in 2004, since the Liberals will be eager to attack him as Harper-lite. Worse, they could attack him as Trump-lite, a charge that he will find hard to refute without alienating his base.

Before anyone says the Conservatives are at their bottom and could only go back up, keep in mind that the Liberals were in the exact same position a decade ago (30% of the vote, 100 or so seats, a leadership race that leads to an upset by a not-a-leader who goes on to lose byelections to the government). And frankly, when they're actually posting nonsense like this (https://twitter.com/coryhann/status/940469449596977152), it doesn't look like they really understand why they're where they are.

The NDP should appeal to those who voted Liberal and feel disappointed at a government that is basically Harper-lite with a smile. They could point out that some of Canada's biggest social achievements were done under a Liberal minority that depended on NDP support, and make inroads in inner-city ridings to at least offset their expected losses in Quebec.

Agreed Scheer needs to control the bozos.  As for going lower, possible but the problem is the Liberals are a centrist party Tories on the right and Trudeau running on a left wing platform so if you are on the right you have nowhere else to go unless it splits again.  Now perhaps many on the moderate right might stay home.  The Liberals by contrast essentially had their progressive flank go over to the NDP and right flank go over to the Conservatives.  Not saying Conservatives cannot lose, just saying I think Canada is a left leaning country, but I wouldn't say its overwhelmingly left wing, there still is a sizeable minority on the political right and at the moment they only have one political option. 

As for the vacation, I don't think it hurt the Liberals much in the polls but one scandal never brings down a government.  You make the most of it since if it becomes a repeated pattern it does become politically devastating.  Some seem to be saying the Tories should just shut up and I don't think that is the way to go.  Opposition is not there to be singing the praises of Trudeau and there is a sizeable chunk albeit minority on the right who are unhappy with Trudeau so its important to have a party speak for them.  In terms of support the reason I think they are more likely to gain than lose is more regional breakdown.

Atlantic Canada: Tories can only go in one direction and while I doubt they will pose much of a challenge to the Liberals there, I suspect they will win a few seats next time around although unless the Liberals do something stupid far less than the Liberals.

Quebec:  Agreed Liberals should gain here and Tories could lose some here, but probably won't get shut out.

Ontario: Could go either way although lets remember rural Ontario pretty much always goes conservative unless the right is divided like in the 90s so things would have to go really badly to lose more than 10 seats here and that would mean losing in many traditional strongholds.  By contrast a slight uptick and slightly better splits would pick up a whole whack of seats (They had many strong second finishes throughout the province) but will be tough to pull ahead of the Liberals and even if they did beat the Liberals here, probably just a Liberal minority due to Liberal gains in Quebec sort of like 1972.

Prairies: Could lose a few urban seats but could gain a few but would be surprised if the change is more than +/-5 in either direction.  Rural parts of the Prairies except the two northern ridings are solidly conservative so don't see that changing.

British Columbia: Could lose although from historical perspectives they are now at rock bottom, but there is some signs millennials are much more progressive than older generations so maybe a generational change.  Also NDP and Greens are strong so BC has better splits never mind if you look at provincial politics, the centre-right BC Liberals still won almost half the seats so winning back the Interior and some of the more affluent Lower Mainland ridings is certainly possible but agree winning more than half of the seats in BC unlikely although BC is quite unpredictable and wacky in its federal voting patterns so tough to predict.  The Reform/Alliance did quite well in the 90s even when the province went NDP provincially.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 10, 2018, 09:55:12 PM
Actually, I'd like to get the rooms opinion on this.

What issues/strategies should Scheer and Singh be pushing from now until the writ drops?

Symbolism over substance seems to be the biggest thing the public has concerns about.

As I wrote previously though, Canadian conservatives are in every bit as much of a bubble as American ones and they want red meat.

True enough but if Scheer was smart he would do what Patrick Brown did and flip flop.  Will anger the base but they have nowhere else to go.  Definitely right the red meat policies sell well to the base but not the general public although even though Scheer's history suggests he is pretty right wing as Harper did its not that hard to convince the public you aren't provided you run on a more centrist platform.  Liberal attack ads will portray him like that and if he takes the bait or has many bozo eruptions (Hudak 2014 or Harper 2004) it will work very well.  But if he doesn't take the bait could smack of desperation (Harper 2006) nonetheless in 2006 Liberals had been in power for 13 years and people were ready for change whereas after 4 years people rarely turf a government unless they screw up badly.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 11, 2018, 02:34:09 AM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario. 


There's still time for a major scandal or the economy to take a downturn, but assuming neither of those happen, the trickle of unforced Liberal errors won't be good for anymore than a Tory minority and probably not even that. Eyeballing the polls, it looks like the Tories will take back a decent number of seats from the Liberals in Anglo Canada, but the Liberals will more or less break even by swallowing the NDP and Bloc Quebecois in Quebec.

Someone needs to emerge as a clear runner up in Quebec to force a minority (assuming the Tories don't pick up the pace in the ROC). The Liberals will run the table in Quebec if the polls hold and the result is something like 45-15-15-15

With Andrew Scheer Stupidity as Conservative Party leader.  I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservatives lose another 20-30 seats in the next election.

Possible but the Tories are more or less down to their core now so I still think modest gains are more likely than losses.  While harping on the scandal may seem silly and most may not care, generally that is what opposition parties do, their job is not to be nice to the government but to go after their weaknesses.  Governments never lose on single issues, its when enough baggage develops.  At the moment the Liberals need a lot more baggage to lose, but as an opposition your goal is to speed that up.  The real problem the Tories face is with the NDP weakness it will likely be a two way race so even if they won 130 seats (not saying they will not just saying what if) they would still remain in opposition and the Liberals even at that could still get a majority.

About half of the Conservatives 33 seats are in the 905 (I think four) and 12 or so are in South West Ontario (as I describe them, the London to Windsor region and the Kitchener to Niagara region.)  Of course the Conservatives have support in South West Ontario, but the are usually very competitive ridings, except for the most rural ridings.  Pierre Polievre's riding in Ottawa I think is winnable as well.

I think the NDP could knock of Brad Trost in Saskatchewan.

In British Columbia, the Conservative held ridings of Richmond, Cariboo-Prince George, Central Okanagan-Similkameen-Nicola, Kamloops-Thompson-Cariboo and maybe Langley-Aldergrove are all possible pick up opportunities for the Liberals.

I'm less knowledgeable about opportunities for the other parties in Alberta or Quebec.

Of course, this isn't to say that the Conservatives will lose any riding, but after the 2006 election, the Liberals continued to lose seats for a couple elections and I don't think by any means the Conservatives are down to just their core ridings.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 11, 2018, 04:26:48 PM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario. 


There's still time for a major scandal or the economy to take a downturn, but assuming neither of those happen, the trickle of unforced Liberal errors won't be good for anymore than a Tory minority and probably not even that. Eyeballing the polls, it looks like the Tories will take back a decent number of seats from the Liberals in Anglo Canada, but the Liberals will more or less break even by swallowing the NDP and Bloc Quebecois in Quebec.

Someone needs to emerge as a clear runner up in Quebec to force a minority (assuming the Tories don't pick up the pace in the ROC). The Liberals will run the table in Quebec if the polls hold and the result is something like 45-15-15-15

With Andrew Scheer Stupidity as Conservative Party leader.  I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservatives lose another 20-30 seats in the next election.

Possible but the Tories are more or less down to their core now so I still think modest gains are more likely than losses.  While harping on the scandal may seem silly and most may not care, generally that is what opposition parties do, their job is not to be nice to the government but to go after their weaknesses.  Governments never lose on single issues, its when enough baggage develops.  At the moment the Liberals need a lot more baggage to lose, but as an opposition your goal is to speed that up.  The real problem the Tories face is with the NDP weakness it will likely be a two way race so even if they won 130 seats (not saying they will not just saying what if) they would still remain in opposition and the Liberals even at that could still get a majority.

I think the NDP could knock of Brad Trost in Saskatchewan.


Hilarious to think that Trost's riding name has "University" in its name.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 11, 2018, 04:39:25 PM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario.  


There's still time for a major scandal or the economy to take a downturn, but assuming neither of those happen, the trickle of unforced Liberal errors won't be good for anymore than a Tory minority and probably not even that. Eyeballing the polls, it looks like the Tories will take back a decent number of seats from the Liberals in Anglo Canada, but the Liberals will more or less break even by swallowing the NDP and Bloc Quebecois in Quebec.

Someone needs to emerge as a clear runner up in Quebec to force a minority (assuming the Tories don't pick up the pace in the ROC). The Liberals will run the table in Quebec if the polls hold and the result is something like 45-15-15-15

With Andrew Scheer Stupidity as Conservative Party leader.  I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservatives lose another 20-30 seats in the next election.

Possible but the Tories are more or less down to their core now so I still think modest gains are more likely than losses.  While harping on the scandal may seem silly and most may not care, generally that is what opposition parties do, their job is not to be nice to the government but to go after their weaknesses.  Governments never lose on single issues, its when enough baggage develops.  At the moment the Liberals need a lot more baggage to lose, but as an opposition your goal is to speed that up.  The real problem the Tories face is with the NDP weakness it will likely be a two way race so even if they won 130 seats (not saying they will not just saying what if) they would still remain in opposition and the Liberals even at that could still get a majority.

About half of the Conservatives 33 seats are in the 905 (I think four) and 12 or so are in South West Ontario (as I describe them, the London to Windsor region and the Kitchener to Niagara region.)  Of course the Conservatives have support in South West Ontario, but the are usually very competitive ridings, except for the most rural ridings.  Pierre Polievre's riding in Ottawa I think is winnable as well.

I think the NDP could knock of Brad Trost in Saskatchewan.

In British Columbia, the Conservative held ridings of Richmond, Cariboo-Prince George, Central Okanagan-Similkameen-Nicola, Kamloops-Thompson-Cariboo and maybe Langley-Aldergrove are all possible pick up opportunities for the Liberals.

I'm less knowledgeable about opportunities for the other parties in Alberta or Quebec.

Of course, this isn't to say that the Conservatives will lose any riding, but after the 2006 election, the Liberals continued to lose seats for a couple elections and I don't think by any means the Conservatives are down to just their core ridings.

Of the 905 ones, Durham, York-Simcoe, Dufferin-Caledon, and Wellington-Halton Hills are all fairly rural so unless something dramatic happens don't see those flipping.  Oshawa could go NDP but won't go Liberal.  Markham-Unionville is winneable and actually I was surprised the Tories held that one.  Thornhill was their best showing in Ontario, mind you it is heavily Jewish and Harper's pro-Israel stance was popular so be interesting to see if Scheer holds the Jewish vote like Harper was able to.  Milton probably would have gone Liberal had it not been for Lisa Raitt mind you all four Halton ridings were fairly close so anything from the Liberals sweeping all four to the Tories sweeping all four seems possible to me.  Flamborough-Glanbrook is fairly rural at the moment but depending on how many new subdivisions are added might be more competitive.  Niagara West is a safe Conservative one.  Niagara Falls could flip, a lot will depend if Rob Nicholson runs again or not.  If he runs then it should stay Tory, but if he steps down could flip.  In Central Ontario, Barrie-Oro Medonte-Springwater is the only one I could see them losing.  In Southwestern Ontario, most of the ridings they won were rural.  The only ones that have large urban components were Kitchener-Conestoga, Brantford-Brant, and Sarnia-Lambton and even in those the Tories tend to run up the margins in the rural parts but definitely could see those three flipping, but that is about it.  Pierre Polievere's riding went over 60% Tory in 2011 and even Hudak cracked the 50% mark so asides from the 2015 election, its one of the safest seats in Ontario.  A lot of civil servants were mad at Harper so you saw a stronger swing in the National Capital Region than elsewhere but how things will go going forward is tough to say.  His riding is also more rural than suburban so a lot will depend on how many new subdivisions get built as each new one benefits the Liberals.

In terms of Brad Trost, he can be defeated but only if there is a strong level of strategic voting.  His riding does include areas where the Saskatchewan Party got over 70% last provincial election and the more affluent parts of Saskatoon.  Nonetheless that was when Brad Wall was still widely popular and Brad Trost's extreme views just might cost him the riding.

In BC, all the ridings mentioned could flip although if you look at the history of BC, the Tories had their worst showing since 1968 and they've never performed that poorly in two back to back elections.

I think the bigger reason why the Liberal decline after 2006 cannot be applied here is where do they go.  The NDP under Layton was fairly moderate so he could pick up off many left leaning Liberals while the Tories while Harper had a minority also were pretty moderate so he could pick off many Blue Liberals.  He only turned rightward once he got a majority and most of those Blue Liberals ditched him then.  By contrast right now, Trudeau is a left leaning not Blue Liberal so if you are on the political right you won't be voting Liberal or NDP.  Otherwise I think the country as a whole leans to the left, but I don't think it's 75% or 80% left wing.  I think you've always had at least 30% who are on the right side of the political spectrum and thus the only way to push the Tories below that is if the right splits like it did in the 90s or if the federal Liberals become like the BC Liberals, a pro free enterprise coalition and I see neither happening.  Lets remember Liberals in 1988 and PCs in 1997 all rebounded after their massive defeat the year before so historically when parties lose usually they tend to rebound although not enough to defeat the government.  Liberals declining was an exception to the rule.

Now not saying the Tories cannot lose seats, they most certainly can, just saying they are pretty close to the core so they have to mess up really badly to fall much further.  


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on February 11, 2018, 06:02:31 PM
While I never want to make any firm predictions considering how often the unexpected has happened, I see a Conservative majority is extremely unlikely.  Minority perhaps (but I suspect the NDP and Liberals would gang up them to keep them out).  The best case scenario for the Tories, albeit not most likely, is around 150 seats, otherwise 7 in Atlantic Canada, hold what they have in Quebec, 60 seats in Ontario, 20 seats in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, 32 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in British Columbia.  Obviously they will likely do worse, but if the Liberals continue to mess up and the Tories have a strong platform and campaign, I see this as their best case scenario. 


There's still time for a major scandal or the economy to take a downturn, but assuming neither of those happen, the trickle of unforced Liberal errors won't be good for anymore than a Tory minority and probably not even that. Eyeballing the polls, it looks like the Tories will take back a decent number of seats from the Liberals in Anglo Canada, but the Liberals will more or less break even by swallowing the NDP and Bloc Quebecois in Quebec.

Someone needs to emerge as a clear runner up in Quebec to force a minority (assuming the Tories don't pick up the pace in the ROC). The Liberals will run the table in Quebec if the polls hold and the result is something like 45-15-15-15

With Andrew Scheer Stupidity as Conservative Party leader.  I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservatives lose another 20-30 seats in the next election.

Possible but the Tories are more or less down to their core now so I still think modest gains are more likely than losses.  While harping on the scandal may seem silly and most may not care, generally that is what opposition parties do, their job is not to be nice to the government but to go after their weaknesses.  Governments never lose on single issues, its when enough baggage develops.  At the moment the Liberals need a lot more baggage to lose, but as an opposition your goal is to speed that up.  The real problem the Tories face is with the NDP weakness it will likely be a two way race so even if they won 130 seats (not saying they will not just saying what if) they would still remain in opposition and the Liberals even at that could still get a majority.

About half of the Conservatives 33 seats are in the 905 (I think four) and 12 or so are in South West Ontario (as I describe them, the London to Windsor region and the Kitchener to Niagara region.)  Of course the Conservatives have support in South West Ontario, but the are usually very competitive ridings, except for the most rural ridings.  Pierre Polievre's riding in Ottawa I think is winnable as well.

I think the NDP could knock of Brad Trost in Saskatchewan.

In British Columbia, the Conservative held ridings of Richmond, Cariboo-Prince George, Central Okanagan-Similkameen-Nicola, Kamloops-Thompson-Cariboo and maybe Langley-Aldergrove are all possible pick up opportunities for the Liberals.

I'm less knowledgeable about opportunities for the other parties in Alberta or Quebec.

Of course, this isn't to say that the Conservatives will lose any riding, but after the 2006 election, the Liberals continued to lose seats for a couple elections and I don't think by any means the Conservatives are down to just their core ridings.

Opportunities for non-Conservative parties in Alberta:

In Edmonton, the most realistic target would be Edmonton Griesbach for the NDP. Kerry Diotte of the CPC, who hasn't turned out to be the most effective/well-liked MP, only won the riding with 40% of the vote. Janis Irwin of the NDP had been seen as a possible winner here, but the LPC's surge later in the election led the vote to split 34% NDP and 22% LPC. The riding overlaps with provincial NDP strong areas as well, so if the progressive vote consolidates around the NDP in this riding in 2019, it would be winnable. The rest of Edmonton will be much trickier.

In Calgary, the most obvious target would be Calgary Confederation for the LPC. The LPC's Matt Grant only lost here by 2.5% to Len Webber in 2019, and like Diotte in Edmonton, Webber has not proved to be the most effective MP. Calgary Forest Lawn also has the potential to become competitive in the future, with longtime CPC incumbent Deepak Obhrai having only been able to take 48% of the vote in 2015, but will likely still go CPC in 2019. I would be very surprised if any of the remaining 6 Calgary ridings currently held by the CPC became competitive at any point soon.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 11, 2018, 06:14:02 PM
More women are accusing Stoffer of sexual harassment, dating back almost 20 years. (http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/more-allegations-about-ex-mp-peter-stoffer-emerge-as-ndp-plans-harassment-policy-updates-at-convention)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 12, 2018, 07:28:14 AM
As for the vacation, I don't think it hurt the Liberals much in the polls but one scandal never brings down a government.  You make the most of it since if it becomes a repeated pattern it does become politically devastating.  Some seem to be saying the Tories should just shut up and I don't think that is the way to go.  Opposition is not there to be singing the praises of Trudeau

snip

Miles touches on the point I was trying to make. This board and many analysts seems to have two biases when assessing Scheer's performance (and Singh and Trudeau's but it seems to come up most often with Scheer); progressive bias, and political junkie bias.

The progressive bias is not understanding that the Tories face a different calculus from the Liberals and therefore will behave in a puzzling manner to many progressives. A party with a low ceiling that needs to turn out a large base alienated from the other parties is very different from being a centrist party with a smaller base but a much higher ceiling. To apply this to the Aga Khan case: so what if there is no smoking gun? It keeps the base motivated and has the added benefit of not being prone to "bozo eruptions" like say an immigration gaffe would be.

The other side of progressive (or conservative in many cases) bias is saying things are bad politics because one doesn't like them. Take the Khadr settlement for example. I read many columns in the media and posts on Atlas discussing how the Tories were discussing non issues or risking backlash by attacking the settlement despite the bulk of Canadians opposing the decision, including a majority of Liberal and NDP supporters (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-khadr-poll-1.4198306). This language seemed based on opposition to the Tories position rather than a rational evaluation of the Tories political strategy.

Lastly is political junkie bias; judging things as people who obsessively follow the Hill, and not the average voter who isn't particularly interested in politics. We sometimes think politicians should focus on policies that few people care about, or scandals that are too intricate to gain much traction. "Trudeau takes taxpayer funded vacation with lobbyist" or "Trudeau promotes middle class tax cut" are both easy to digest. The in and out scandal or anything to do with parliamentary procedure is not.

Case in point:

The NDP should appeal to those who voted Liberal and feel disappointed at a government that is basically Harper-lite with a smile. They could point out that some of Canada's biggest social achievements were done under a Liberal minority that depended on NDP support, and make inroads in inner-city ridings to at least offset their expected losses in Quebec.

Citing the Pearson and Trudeau Sr. administrations to win votes in 2018? You'd have to be collecting CPP now to even remember the administration that created it. Perhaps the Tories should win back their seats in Calgary by attacking the NEP :P. People's memories just aren't that long, nor are most folks that interested in policy. That's why opposition parties like focusing on scandal.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on February 12, 2018, 08:43:10 PM
Miles touches on the point I was trying to make. This board and many analysts seems to have two biases when assessing Scheer's performance (and Singh and Trudeau's but it seems to come up most often with Scheer); progressive bias, and political junkie bias.

The progressive bias is not understanding that the Tories face a different calculus from the Liberals and therefore will behave in a puzzling manner to many progressives. A party with a low ceiling that needs to turn out a large base alienated from the other parties is very different from being a centrist party with a smaller base but a much higher ceiling. To apply this to the Aga Khan case: so what if there is no smoking gun? It keeps the base motivated and has the added benefit of not being prone to "bozo eruptions" like say an immigration gaffe would be.

The other side of progressive (or conservative in many cases) bias is saying things are bad politics because one doesn't like them. Take the Khadr settlement for example. I read many columns in the media and posts on Atlas discussing how the Tories were discussing non issues or risking backlash by attacking the settlement despite the bulk of Canadians opposing the decision, including a majority of Liberal and NDP supporters (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-khadr-poll-1.4198306). This language seemed based on opposition to the Tories position rather than a rational evaluation of the Tories political strategy.

The Omar Khadr payout was almost exactly like the niqab issue in 2015: perhaps the majority of Canadians agreed with the Conservatives, but they didn't like the attitude exhibited. As a result, Scheer received virtually no post-election leadership bump.

And it's not my idle punditry. The strategy employed by the Conservatives has, materially, not worked: they have lost not one but two long-held seats to the government. They should have held these seats to at least stay in the game, and instead bizarrely spun these losses as wins. This indicates their strategy of merely motivating their base isn't working, especially when it also depends on a simultaneous Liberal slump and NDP surge (entirely outside their control).

Quote
Lastly is political junkie bias; judging things as people who obsessively follow the Hill, and not the average voter who isn't particularly interested in politics. We sometimes think politicians should focus on policies that few people care about, or scandals that are too intricate to gain much traction. "Trudeau takes taxpayer funded vacation with lobbyist" or "Trudeau promotes middle class tax cut" are both easy to digest. The in and out scandal or anything to do with parliamentary procedure is not.
The Conservatives aren't the only party that can and will use that tactic. "Scheer's campaign was/is run by a neo-nazi propagandist" or "Harper is slinking around as the Conservative Party fundraising director" are also easy to digest to a target demographic.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 12, 2018, 08:48:47 PM
Miles touches on the point I was trying to make. This board and many analysts seems to have two biases when assessing Scheer's performance (and Singh and Trudeau's but it seems to come up most often with Scheer); progressive bias, and political junkie bias.

The progressive bias is not understanding that the Tories face a different calculus from the Liberals and therefore will behave in a puzzling manner to many progressives. A party with a low ceiling that needs to turn out a large base alienated from the other parties is very different from being a centrist party with a smaller base but a much higher ceiling. To apply this to the Aga Khan case: so what if there is no smoking gun? It keeps the base motivated and has the added benefit of not being prone to "bozo eruptions" like say an immigration gaffe would be.

The other side of progressive (or conservative in many cases) bias is saying things are bad politics because one doesn't like them. Take the Khadr settlement for example. I read many columns in the media and posts on Atlas discussing how the Tories were discussing non issues or risking backlash by attacking the settlement despite the bulk of Canadians opposing the decision, including a majority of Liberal and NDP supporters (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-khadr-poll-1.4198306). This language seemed based on opposition to the Tories position rather than a rational evaluation of the Tories political strategy.

The Omar Khadr payout was almost exactly like the niqab issue in 2015: perhaps the majority of Canadians agreed with the Conservatives, but they didn't like the attitude exhibited. As a result, Scheer received virtually no post-election leadership bump.

And it's not my idle punditry. The strategy employed by the Conservatives has, materially, not worked: they have lost not one but two long-held seats to the government. They should have held these seats to at least stay in the game, and instead bizarrely spun these losses as wins. This indicates their strategy of merely motivating their base isn't working, especially when it also depends on a simultaneous Liberal slump and NDP surge (entirely outside their control).

Quote
Lastly is political junkie bias; judging things as people who obsessively follow the Hill, and not the average voter who isn't particularly interested in politics. We sometimes think politicians should focus on policies that few people care about, or scandals that are too intricate to gain much traction. "Trudeau takes taxpayer funded vacation with lobbyist" or "Trudeau promotes middle class tax cut" are both easy to digest. The in and out scandal or anything to do with parliamentary procedure is not.
The Conservatives aren't the only party that can and will use that tactic. "Scheer's campaign was/is run by a neo-nazi propagandist" or "Harper is slinking around as the Conservative Party fundraising director" are also easy to digest to a target demographic.

If you look at the 12 by-elections since the last election, the Tories have seen their share of the popular vote go up in 9 down in 3 so while certainly not enough to win a general election hardly a disaster.  Yes agree those losses look bad although also both were won in 2015 largely due to local candidates and the Liberals attracted star candidates (admittedly if they do this across the country they could pick up several). 

I think the problem with many on both sides is those on the right think Trudeau is hated as much as they hate him which is false thus why he would almost certainly win an election if held today.  But I think many progressives wrongly assume support for conservative ideas is much smaller than it is.  Conservatives aren't the majority far from it, but they aren't a tiny minority, there is still a solid 30% who sit on the right side of the political spectrum.  Also calling the party extreme right works with some but I find most people make their own judgement of where they think a party lies not what those from other parties say it is.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on February 12, 2018, 09:26:10 PM
If you look at the 12 by-elections since the last election, the Tories have seen their share of the popular vote go up in 9 down in 3 so while certainly not enough to win a general election hardly a disaster.  Yes agree those losses look bad although also both were won in 2015 largely due to local candidates and the Liberals attracted star candidates (admittedly if they do this across the country they could pick up several).

I think the problem with many on both sides is those on the right think Trudeau is hated as much as they hate him which is false thus why he would almost certainly win an election if held today.  But I think many progressives wrongly assume support for conservative ideas is much smaller than it is.  Conservatives aren't the majority far from it, but they aren't a tiny minority, there is still a solid 30% who sit on the right side of the political spectrum.  Also calling the party extreme right works with some but I find most people make their own judgement of where they think a party lies not what those from other parties say it is.

The Conservatives could just as easily have recruited star candidates. South Surrey White Rock was previously held by Dianne Watts, who herself was a star candidate who clearly believed she was just wasting her time being a backbencher of a party that won't win in 2019. They could have simply convinced her not to resign, and not trigger a byelection at all. So blaming their losses on Liberal star candidates smacks of sour grapes. And if the Liberals continue to appear to hold the upper hand, they will continue to have better luck attracting star candidates.

Agreed, that Conservatives don't understand that their hatred of Trudeau isn't shared by those outside their bubble. Also agreed that I think the absolute worst (barring a Scheer-BBQing-kittens scandal) the Conservatives could do is like Dion in 2008. It wouldn't require any of the Conservative base voting Liberal: a small minority of that base (say 10% of their 30% base, so 3% of the electorate) concentrated in say 20 ridings could be convinced to stay home, or worse not to donate. Insinuating that the CPC is infested by the far-right would merely serve to convince those who voted Liberal in 2015 and who feel disappointed at Trudeau's centrist policies and are tempted to vote NDP (say 5% of the total electorate), to stay with them. In our age of microtargeting, the parties don't even need to run messages for everyone, when they can channel their finite budgets into advertising to limited swing demographics like the two mentioned.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 13, 2018, 06:40:17 AM
Miles touches on the point I was trying to make. This board and many analysts seems to have two biases when assessing Scheer's performance (and Singh and Trudeau's but it seems to come up most often with Scheer); progressive bias, and political junkie bias.

The progressive bias is not understanding that the Tories face a different calculus from the Liberals and therefore will behave in a puzzling manner to many progressives. A party with a low ceiling that needs to turn out a large base alienated from the other parties is very different from being a centrist party with a smaller base but a much higher ceiling. To apply this to the Aga Khan case: so what if there is no smoking gun? It keeps the base motivated and has the added benefit of not being prone to "bozo eruptions" like say an immigration gaffe would be.

The other side of progressive (or conservative in many cases) bias is saying things are bad politics because one doesn't like them. Take the Khadr settlement for example. I read many columns in the media and posts on Atlas discussing how the Tories were discussing non issues or risking backlash by attacking the settlement despite the bulk of Canadians opposing the decision, including a majority of Liberal and NDP supporters (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-khadr-poll-1.4198306). This language seemed based on opposition to the Tories position rather than a rational evaluation of the Tories political strategy.

The Omar Khadr payout was almost exactly like the niqab issue in 2015: perhaps the majority of Canadians agreed with the Conservatives, but they didn't like the attitude exhibited. As a result, Scheer received virtually no post-election leadership bump.

And it's not my idle punditry. The strategy employed by the Conservatives has, materially, not worked: they have lost not one but two long-held seats to the government. They should have held these seats to at least stay in the game, and instead bizarrely spun these losses as wins. This indicates their strategy of merely motivating their base isn't working, especially when it also depends on a simultaneous Liberal slump and NDP surge (entirely outside their control).

Quote
Lastly is political junkie bias; judging things as people who obsessively follow the Hill, and not the average voter who isn't particularly interested in politics. We sometimes think politicians should focus on policies that few people care about, or scandals that are too intricate to gain much traction. "Trudeau takes taxpayer funded vacation with lobbyist" or "Trudeau promotes middle class tax cut" are both easy to digest. The in and out scandal or anything to do with parliamentary procedure is not.
The Conservatives aren't the only party that can and will use that tactic. "Scheer's campaign was/is run by a neo-nazi propagandist" or "Harper is slinking around as the Conservative Party fundraising director" are also easy to digest to a target demographic.

If you look at the 12 by-elections since the last election, the Tories have seen their share of the popular vote go up in 9 down in 3 so while certainly not enough to win a general election hardly a disaster.  Yes agree those losses look bad although also both were won in 2015 largely due to local candidates and the Liberals attracted star candidates (admittedly if they do this across the country they could pick up several).  

I think the problem with many on both sides is those on the right think Trudeau is hated as much as they hate him which is false thus why he would almost certainly win an election if held today.  But I think many progressives wrongly assume support for conservative ideas is much smaller than it is.  Conservatives aren't the majority far from it, but they aren't a tiny minority, there is still a solid 30% who sit on the right side of the political spectrum.  Also calling the party extreme right works with some but I find most people make their own judgement of where they think a party lies not what those from other parties say it is.

I don't consider myself a 'progressive' but I don't know of Canadians who believe that Conservatives (and conservatives) are a 'tiny minority' (unless you are referring to mostly New Democrats who like to claim 'they represent the powerful, we represent the people') to which I always say should be added, 'even though the people actually vote for the parties who we say represent the powerful.'

I have always written here that the base Conservative voter support is between 30-33%.  

However, as we know at times a small swing in the total vote can lead to fairly large swing in seat totals.

The 2015 election result was 39.5% Liberal, 31.9% (32%) Conservative.  If the 2019 election was instead 41.5% Liberal, 30.0% Conservative, I could see the Conservatives losing somewhere around 20 seats. And if the Liberals could gain some votes at the expense of the NDP in British Columbia, Alberta and Quebec, and end up at around 43% support, I could see the Conservatives losing 25-30 seats.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In British Columbia, don't assume that the Liberals asserting national authority to push through the pipeline would hurt the Liberals, the reality is outside of the most affected ridings, there seems to be little indication that beyond the hardcore environmental and the hard core 'resource development' types, that very many British Columbians care all that much about this.

According to this site: there is an up to 87% chance of an oil spill in the Burrard Inlet occurring in the next 50 years.  (This is from an anti pipeline website, so I suspect that's an 87% chance in the next 50 years with no mitigation effort.)

Indeed: https://tinyurl.com/y7otffhc (I swear I did not know this was the result directly below the first google link.)
Mitigation makes probability of oil spill very low, according to risk analysis done for Kinder Morgan

So, if the reality is the odds of a spill in the Burrard Inlet is, say, 25% over the next 50 years, that's the exact same odds of a major earthquake occurring in British Columbia over the next 50 years.
http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/earthquake-facts.aspx

Now, of course, people are generally very poor at assessing risk, and even though the odds may be roughly equal that doesn't mean people think the outcomes would be equally bad "I'm willing to take my chances because I like living in British Columbia but there's nothing in that pipeline for me."

But, all in all, I think a lot of people overlook that British Columbians have learned to accept a high degree of risk, even if they don't think about it every day.

I think Terry Beech will likely lose to the NDP in Burnaby North-Seymour, but I don't think the pipeline would  effect any other incumbent Liberal riding. I also don't think the Liberals sticking up for the pipeline would benefit the Federal Liberals in the Interior, but the Liberals could swing the other Kelowna riding, the Kamloops riding and the Prince George-Cariboo riding on the basis of taking a small amount of Conservative votes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, I could also see a Conservative minority government being the result of the 2019 election, but Andrew Scheer Stupidity is going to have to grab a brain.

The Khadr situation is actually a great example of conservatives (and Conservatives) being in a bubble.  Yes, most Canadians of all political stripes were unhappy with the payout, but the responses to many of the other questions showed the fairly frequent 2/3 to 1/3 split, with about 2/3 of Canadians responding to the other questions with a great deal of nuance while conservative Canadians largely saw the situation in stark terms.

So, if that becomes an issue in the next election, I would expect Conservatives would play the issue to their base rather than find a way to nuance the issue so that most Canadians would support them on it.

Of course, it's always possible that Andrew Scheer Stupidity is in reality Andrew Scheer Genius and he's just playing rope-a-dope (which is actually largely what Justin Trudeau and the Federal Liberals did in 2015.)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on February 14, 2018, 06:08:33 PM
http://torontosun.com/news/provincial/key-accusation-against-patrick-brown-false-ctv-now-admits

Oops

#PatrickBrown2018?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 14, 2018, 08:15:39 PM
Justin blasts Horgan for sabotaging his climate plan. (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/02/14/news/inside-interview-trudeau-spills-kinder-morgan-pipeline)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 14, 2018, 09:14:33 PM
Justin blasts Horgan for sabotaging his climate plan. (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/02/14/news/inside-interview-trudeau-spills-kinder-morgan-pipeline)

This will get interesting.  Probably a wash overall for him, but should help him amongst Liberal-Conservative swing voters who mostly support the pipeline and are BC Liberals provincially but might hurt him amongst NDP-Liberal swing voters and NDP-Green swing voters.  I've heard Horgan has a tendency to lose his temper so will see what happens.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 15, 2018, 07:19:16 AM
The Khadr situation is actually a great example of conservatives (and Conservatives) being in a bubble.  Yes, most Canadians of all political stripes were unhappy with the payout, but the responses to many of the other questions showed the fairly frequent 2/3 to 1/3 split, with about 2/3 of Canadians responding to the other questions with a great deal of nuance while conservative Canadians largely saw the situation in stark terms.

So, if that becomes an issue in the next election, I would expect Conservatives would play the issue to their base rather than find a way to nuance the issue so that most Canadians would support them on it.

This seems to parallel a wedge issue the Liberals have been pushing lately; abortion. Polls indicate that:

a) Canadians are generally pro-choice including a majority of Tory supporters.

b) Positions are generally more nuanced than the Liberal-NDP-Bloc stance of no law regulating abortion.

Would you say the Liberal Party of Canada and their supporters are in a bubble too?

Now as much as I would hate to admit, I think the Liberals were doing the politically advantageous thing by putting the abortion attestation in the Canada Summer Jobs Grant application (although the blowback was probably more than they would have liked). Similarly, I think the Tories made the right decision slamming the Khadr payout. Yeah it would be dumb if they made it the focus of their campaign, but in the middle of a popular Prime Minister's mandate, it makes sense to attack him over his unpopular decisions even if they aren't platform material.

Furthermore, I think you are slipping into the political junkie bias I described earlier by suggesting that the Tories should have been more nuanced. You still need a simple, attention grabbing message, especially outside of campaign season when no one is paying attention to politics. "Middle class tax cut" instead of "flat tax" works. I don't really see an equivalent for the Khadr case.

What's the *attention grabbing* line/message they should have taken on Khadr? Mealymouthed quibbling isn't going to grab headlines.

Of course, it's always possible that Andrew Scheer Stupidity is in reality Andrew Scheer Genius and he's just playing rope-a-dope (which is actually largely what Justin Trudeau and the Federal Liberals did in 2015.)

That's some CBC commenter level of silly. Do you call the parties CONservatives and LIEbrals too?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 15, 2018, 08:41:38 AM

The Omar Khadr payout was almost exactly like the niqab issue in 2015: perhaps the majority of Canadians agreed with the Conservatives, but they didn't like the attitude exhibited. As a result, Scheer received virtually no post-election leadership bump.

And it's not my idle punditry. The strategy employed by the Conservatives has, materially, not worked: they have lost not one but two long-held seats to the government. They should have held these seats to at least stay in the game, and instead bizarrely spun these losses as wins. This indicates their strategy of merely motivating their base isn't working, especially when it also depends on a simultaneous Liberal slump and NDP surge (entirely outside their control).

Quote
Lastly is political junkie bias; judging things as people who obsessively follow the Hill, and not the average voter who isn't particularly interested in politics. We sometimes think politicians should focus on policies that few people care about, or scandals that are too intricate to gain much traction. "Trudeau takes taxpayer funded vacation with lobbyist" or "Trudeau promotes middle class tax cut" are both easy to digest. The in and out scandal or anything to do with parliamentary procedure is not.
The Conservatives aren't the only party that can and will use that tactic. "Scheer's campaign was/is run by a neo-nazi propagandist" or "Harper is slinking around as the Conservative Party fundraising director" are also easy to digest to a target demographic.

One has to consider polling numbers in context. Trudeau is in his first mandate. His government has only had minor screwups and the economy is strong. The NDP haven't picked up much,  but I don't think they should abandon their strategy of attacking the Liberals from the left, because it's still the best option despite the lack of movement in the polls.

I don't think it's fair to lay the lack of leadership bump at Scheer's feet entirely. The Khadr's case didn't occur until he had been leader for two months and Singh is also lacking a big bump.

According to Grenier's polling average, the Tories are up two points from their 2015 result. Those aren't winning numbers, but they aren't nothing. How much more should the Tories have shaved off the Liberals and more importantly how? You've said the Tories should prevent bozo eruptions. That's all well and good but you still need a message to push.

Your last paragraph proves my point. If the Liberals can (and I really think they should) attack the Tories with simplistic messaging, why on earth do you think the Tories attacking Trudeau with the same is a bad idea?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 15, 2018, 03:25:30 PM
The Khadr situation is actually a great example of conservatives (and Conservatives) being in a bubble.  Yes, most Canadians of all political stripes were unhappy with the payout, but the responses to many of the other questions showed the fairly frequent 2/3 to 1/3 split, with about 2/3 of Canadians responding to the other questions with a great deal of nuance while conservative Canadians largely saw the situation in stark terms.

So, if that becomes an issue in the next election, I would expect Conservatives would play the issue to their base rather than find a way to nuance the issue so that most Canadians would support them on it.


Of course, it's always possible that Andrew Scheer Stupidity is in reality Andrew Scheer Genius and he's just playing rope-a-dope (which is actually largely what Justin Trudeau and the Federal Liberals did in 2015.)

That's some CBC commenter level of silly. Do you call the parties CONservatives and LIEbrals too?

1.As opposed to "Justin over his head"?
Or even Stephane Dion "not a leader."

You oppose the use of nuance but you don't think slogans like that can work?  I suspect you're unhappy with it because you're afraid it might be picked up and used regularly. (If you check the hashtag or something similar you'll find a whole lot of people using it already.  I like to think I originated it, but I doubt it.) https://twitter.com/hashtag/ScheerStupidity?src=hash

2.Even if I'm wrong that you're afraid of it and genuinely think it's silly (though I think that contradicts your 'no nuance' stance)  what are you picking on the CBC for?

Have you checked out the global news or yahoo news discussions?  They sometimes make the CBC discussions look like university seminars.

The problem with all those message boards is similar to Akerlof's 'market for lemons' problem (used cars):  the bad commenters chase away the good commenters until all that's left is the bad.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 15, 2018, 04:29:09 PM
The Khadr situation is actually a great example of conservatives (and Conservatives) being in a bubble.  Yes, most Canadians of all political stripes were unhappy with the payout, but the responses to many of the other questions showed the fairly frequent 2/3 to 1/3 split, with about 2/3 of Canadians responding to the other questions with a great deal of nuance while conservative Canadians largely saw the situation in stark terms.

So, if that becomes an issue in the next election, I would expect Conservatives would play the issue to their base rather than find a way to nuance the issue so that most Canadians would support them on it.


Of course, it's always possible that Andrew Scheer Stupidity is in reality Andrew Scheer Genius and he's just playing rope-a-dope (which is actually largely what Justin Trudeau and the Federal Liberals did in 2015.)

That's some CBC commenter level of silly. Do you call the parties CONservatives and LIEbrals too?

1.As opposed to "Justin over his head"?
Or even Stephane Dion "not a leader."

You oppose the use of nuance but you don't think slogans like that can work?  I suspect you're unhappy with it because you're afraid it might be picked up and used regularly. (If you check the hashtag or something similar you'll find a whole lot of people using it already.  I like to think I originated it, but I doubt it.) https://twitter.com/hashtag/ScheerStupidity?src=hash

2.Even if I'm wrong that you're afraid of it and genuinely think it's silly (though I think that contradicts your 'no nuance' stance) 


I want to have intelligent, nuanced discussions on Atlas. I recognize that simplistic, unnuanced messaging can be very effective for political parties. Those two sentences are not contradictory.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 15, 2018, 05:16:41 PM
The Khadr situation is actually a great example of conservatives (and Conservatives) being in a bubble.  Yes, most Canadians of all political stripes were unhappy with the payout, but the responses to many of the other questions showed the fairly frequent 2/3 to 1/3 split, with about 2/3 of Canadians responding to the other questions with a great deal of nuance while conservative Canadians largely saw the situation in stark terms.

So, if that becomes an issue in the next election, I would expect Conservatives would play the issue to their base rather than find a way to nuance the issue so that most Canadians would support them on it.


Of course, it's always possible that Andrew Scheer Stupidity is in reality Andrew Scheer Genius and he's just playing rope-a-dope (which is actually largely what Justin Trudeau and the Federal Liberals did in 2015.)

That's some CBC commenter level of silly. Do you call the parties CONservatives and LIEbrals too?

1.As opposed to "Justin over his head"?
Or even Stephane Dion "not a leader."

You oppose the use of nuance but you don't think slogans like that can work?  I suspect you're unhappy with it because you're afraid it might be picked up and used regularly. (If you check the hashtag or something similar you'll find a whole lot of people using it already.  I like to think I originated it, but I doubt it.) https://twitter.com/hashtag/ScheerStupidity?src=hash

2.Even if I'm wrong that you're afraid of it and genuinely think it's silly (though I think that contradicts your 'no nuance' stance)  


I want to have intelligent, nuanced discussions on Atlas. I recognize that simplistic, unnuanced messaging can be very effective for political parties. Those two sentences are not contradictory.

Oh I see, that's a fair point.  I don't think it's contradictory to engage in intelligent nuanced discussion while sometimes using simplistic messaging.  I don't think that is contradictory either and simplistic messaging sometimes gets a point across very well.

One example of that is the line attributed to a number of people of "If I had more time to write this letter, it would be shorter."

Another is something like "if you can't fit an argument on a bumper sticker, you probably don't understand it."

I don't always agree with second maxim, but I generally agree that relatively simple ideas should build on relatively simple ideas to become complex.

In this case, from what I've seen I genuinely believe that Andrew Scheer isn't an intelligent person.  I don't know if he's actually stupid, but he often speaks only in conservative platititudes (not that different from Justin Trudeau who often speaks in liberal platititudes)  but, unlike Justin Trudeau who  does seem to be knowledgeable of public policy (far more than Conservatives seem to appreciate, but it seems clear most Canadians recognize Trudeau's not out to lunch) and usually makes nuanced comments (this is why Conservatives have resorted to making false claims about what Trudeau said, like on the small business tax issue)  Scheer doesn't seem to consider the consequences of what he says before making relatively specific comments on actual policy.

I refer to his initial absolute position to free speech on campuses which he had to walk back, and his position on safe consumption sites where he got basic facts wrong.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 24, 2018, 07:25:28 AM
It's a bit late coming, but the NS PC leadership rules have been set. They will follow the 100 point per riding system used on the federal level.  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ns-pc-leadership-race-halifax-oct-26-27-1.4530711)This is a first in Nova Scotia. We used a delegated convention in 2006, and Baillie was acclaimed in 2009.

Also Julie Chiasson, a failed candidate in Chester-St.Margaret's has thrown her hat itno the ring.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on February 26, 2018, 06:28:25 PM
Justin Trudeau: Is Canada's love affair with its PM over?

Quote
Link (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-26/justin-trudeau-is-canadian-love-affair-with-pm-over/9483970)

When Justin Trudeau was elected prime minister of Canada in 2015, he seemed to be a refreshing combination of optimism and heritage.

His "sunny ways" approach and efforts at including all manner of Canadians in power sharing won him world attention. Americans could only look on enviously as their political scene deteriorated into darkness and disagreements.

But lately, Mr Trudeau — son of the late Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau — has come off as less adorable than irritating in some Canadian quarters. And the cheerful shield he wore when he took office seems to be frayed around the edges.

The eye-rolling reached a crescendo last week, when Mr Trudeau took his photogenic family to India on what was ostensibly an official visit, but appeared to be more a series of photo ops.

()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on February 26, 2018, 10:01:17 PM
A majority of the Bloc MPs have a problem with leader Martine Ouellet. Like it happened in the crisis of June of last year, 7 MPs are unhappy with Ouellet and 3 MPs (including Mario Beaulieu) side with the leader. She doesn't have the reputation of working well with others or be a team player.
   
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bloc-quebecois-in-turmoil-as-mps-question-martine-ouellets-leadership (http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bloc-quebecois-in-turmoil-as-mps-question-martine-ouellets-leadership)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 27, 2018, 11:29:00 AM
Justin Trudeau: Is Canada's love affair with its PM over?

Quote
Link (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-26/justin-trudeau-is-canadian-love-affair-with-pm-over/9483970)

When Justin Trudeau was elected prime minister of Canada in 2015, he seemed to be a refreshing combination of optimism and heritage.

His "sunny ways" approach and efforts at including all manner of Canadians in power sharing won him world attention. Americans could only look on enviously as their political scene deteriorated into darkness and disagreements.

But lately, Mr Trudeau — son of the late Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau — has come off as less adorable than irritating in some Canadian quarters. And the cheerful shield he wore when he took office seems to be frayed around the edges.

The eye-rolling reached a crescendo last week, when Mr Trudeau took his photogenic family to India on what was ostensibly an official visit, but appeared to be more a series of photo ops.

()

You left out the best part; his entourage accidently invited a terrorist to dinner!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ProgressiveCanadian on February 27, 2018, 03:30:36 PM
Trudeau is doing everything to hand the next election to Conservatives. I hope he comes in 3rd place in the next election, where the Neo-Liberals deserve to be.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 27, 2018, 04:18:02 PM
Trudeau is doing everything to hand the next election to Conservatives. I hope he comes in 3rd place in the next election, where the Neo-Liberals deserve to be.

This isn't really the right place for this discussion, but if Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals are 'Neo-Liberals' then the NDP are communists who, if they ever got into power, would turn Canada into the next Venezuela.

This idea that everybody who is to the right of Bernie Sanders have all the same economic views, is no different than the garbage the right wing in the 1970s and the 1980s pulled that there is no difference between a liberal and a communist.

So, if I'm a 'neo-liberal', you're a communist.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on February 27, 2018, 06:10:29 PM
Trudeau is the worst PM ever and he is much worse than even Trump: https://globalnews.ca/news/4049900/trudeau-omar-khadr-lawyer-john-norris-justice/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 27, 2018, 10:45:45 PM
Trudeau is doing everything to hand the next election to Conservatives. I hope he comes in 3rd place in the next election, where the Neo-Liberals deserve to be.

This isn't really the right place for this discussion, but if Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals are 'Neo-Liberals' then the NDP are communists who, if they ever got into power, would turn Canada into the next Venezuela.

This idea that everybody who is to the right of Bernie Sanders have all the same economic views, is no different than the garbage the right wing in the 1970s and the 1980s pulled that there is no difference between a liberal and a communist.

So, if I'm a 'neo-liberal', you're a communist.

What a load of garbage. I'm not a fan of the 'neoliberal' slur myself for a variety of reasons (neoliberalism is a systemic trend following the collapse of the post-war consensus, not a meaningful ideological descriptor), but surely labelling a party whose budget is prepared by the likes of Bill Morneau as such is more reasonable than describing a very moderate party of labour as EVIL COMMIES?

Despite Bill Morneau's association with the CD Howe Institute, his budget's have been in the red liberal tradition.  The government has spent billions on a greatly expanded children's benefit and the government is in the process of implementing carbon taxes.  Compare that to genuine 'neo-liberal' policies of the likes in the U.S of Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader McConnell along with the Trump Administration.

The 'neo-Liberal' agenda is largely defined by the so-called 'Washington Consensus', especially, as we see in the United States, cuts to social spending and regulations.

If the Canadian Liberal Party's economic policies, of which it seems you know practically nothing, are going to be placed into some idiotic binary of which it is on the right along with the U.S government of Randian extremists, then the NDP is equally part of this binary and is no different than Chavez in Venezuela or, presumably, Stalin in the old Soviet Union.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on February 27, 2018, 10:55:18 PM
Trudeau is doing everything to hand the next election to Conservatives. I hope he comes in 3rd place in the next election, where the Neo-Liberals deserve to be.

This isn't really the right place for this discussion, but if Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals are 'Neo-Liberals' then the NDP are communists who, if they ever got into power, would turn Canada into the next Venezuela.

This idea that everybody who is to the right of Bernie Sanders have all the same economic views, is no different than the garbage the right wing in the 1970s and the 1980s pulled that there is no difference between a liberal and a communist.

So, if I'm a 'neo-liberal', you're a communist.

What a load of garbage. I'm not a fan of the 'neoliberal' slur myself for a variety of reasons (neoliberalism is a systemic trend following the collapse of the post-war consensus, not a meaningful ideological descriptor), but surely labelling a party whose budget is prepared by the likes of Bill Morneau as such is more reasonable than describing a very moderate party of labour as EVIL COMMIES?

Despite Bill Morneau's association with the CD Howe Institute, his budget's have been in the red liberal tradition.  The government has spent billions on a greatly expanded children's benefit and the government is in the process of implementing carbon taxes.  Compare that to genuine 'neo-liberal' policies of the likes in the U.S of Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader McConnell along with the Trump Administration.

The 'neo-Liberal' agenda is largely defined by the so-called 'Washington Consensus', especially, as we see in the United States, cuts to social spending and regulations.

If the Canadian Liberal Party's economic policies, of which it seems you know practically nothing, are going to be placed into some idiotic binary of which it is on the right along with the U.S government of Randian extremists, then the NDP is equally part of this binary and is no different than Chavez in Venezuela or, presumably, Stalin in the old Soviet Union.

Yet, he refuses to stop exempting half the capital gains from taxes and to do anything about doctor incorporation or fiscal paradises.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 27, 2018, 11:13:41 PM
Trudeau is doing everything to hand the next election to Conservatives. I hope he comes in 3rd place in the next election, where the Neo-Liberals deserve to be.

This isn't really the right place for this discussion, but if Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals are 'Neo-Liberals' then the NDP are communists who, if they ever got into power, would turn Canada into the next Venezuela.

This idea that everybody who is to the right of Bernie Sanders have all the same economic views, is no different than the garbage the right wing in the 1970s and the 1980s pulled that there is no difference between a liberal and a communist.

So, if I'm a 'neo-liberal', you're a communist.

What a load of garbage. I'm not a fan of the 'neoliberal' slur myself for a variety of reasons (neoliberalism is a systemic trend following the collapse of the post-war consensus, not a meaningful ideological descriptor), but surely labelling a party whose budget is prepared by the likes of Bill Morneau as such is more reasonable than describing a very moderate party of labour as EVIL COMMIES?

Despite Bill Morneau's association with the CD Howe Institute, his budget's have been in the red liberal tradition.  The government has spent billions on a greatly expanded children's benefit and the government is in the process of implementing carbon taxes.  Compare that to genuine 'neo-liberal' policies of the likes in the U.S of Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader McConnell along with the Trump Administration.

The 'neo-Liberal' agenda is largely defined by the so-called 'Washington Consensus', especially, as we see in the United States, cuts to social spending and regulations.

If the Canadian Liberal Party's economic policies, of which it seems you know practically nothing, are going to be placed into some idiotic binary of which it is on the right along with the U.S government of Randian extremists, then the NDP is equally part of this binary and is no different than Chavez in Venezuela or, presumably, Stalin in the old Soviet Union.

Yet, he refuses to stop exempting half the capital gains from taxes and to do anything about doctor incorporation or fiscal paradises.

I seem to recall then NDP Finance Critic Alexandre Boulerice supporting the doctors (and others) in the small business tax fight.  So, the NDP are communist neo-liberals, the worst kind.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2018, 06:40:23 AM
Major items out of budget day: (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-budget-2018-main-1.4552933)

1) Five weeks of use it or lose it parental leave for fathers.
2) In time honoured tradition, the Liberals are stealing a policy from the NDP by pledging to implement pharmacare.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on February 28, 2018, 09:33:24 AM
Trudeau is doing everything to hand the next election to Conservatives. I hope he comes in 3rd place in the next election, where the Neo-Liberals deserve to be.

This isn't really the right place for this discussion, but if Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals are 'Neo-Liberals' then the NDP are communists who, if they ever got into power, would turn Canada into the next Venezuela.

This idea that everybody who is to the right of Bernie Sanders have all the same economic views, is no different than the garbage the right wing in the 1970s and the 1980s pulled that there is no difference between a liberal and a communist.

So, if I'm a 'neo-liberal', you're a communist.

What a load of garbage. I'm not a fan of the 'neoliberal' slur myself for a variety of reasons (neoliberalism is a systemic trend following the collapse of the post-war consensus, not a meaningful ideological descriptor), but surely labelling a party whose budget is prepared by the likes of Bill Morneau as such is more reasonable than describing a very moderate party of labour as EVIL COMMIES?

Despite Bill Morneau's association with the CD Howe Institute, his budget's have been in the red liberal tradition.  The government has spent billions on a greatly expanded children's benefit and the government is in the process of implementing carbon taxes.  Compare that to genuine 'neo-liberal' policies of the likes in the U.S of Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader McConnell along with the Trump Administration.

The 'neo-Liberal' agenda is largely defined by the so-called 'Washington Consensus', especially, as we see in the United States, cuts to social spending and regulations.

If the Canadian Liberal Party's economic policies, of which it seems you know practically nothing, are going to be placed into some idiotic binary of which it is on the right along with the U.S government of Randian extremists, then the NDP is equally part of this binary and is no different than Chavez in Venezuela or, presumably, Stalin in the old Soviet Union.

Yet, he refuses to stop exempting half the capital gains from taxes and to do anything about doctor incorporation or fiscal paradises.

I seem to recall then NDP Finance Critic Alexandre Boulerice supporting the doctors (and others) in the small business tax fight.  So, the NDP are communist neo-liberals, the worst kind.

There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Major items out of budget day: (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-budget-2018-main-1.4552933)

1) Five weeks of use it or lose it parental leave for fathers.
2) In time honoured tradition, the Liberals are stealing a policy from the NDP by pledging to implement pharmacare.

Funnily, this amount to exactly 0 in Québec because we already have generous provincial parental leave (financed by a specific payroll deduction, but we pay less federal EI) and we already have Pharmacare since the 70's.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 28, 2018, 09:42:01 AM
Small business owners are definitely not the NDP's key demographic, but supporting them definitely is within the NDP's mantra of 'helping the little guy'.  Let's drop the absurd extremist ideology name calling, mmkay?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 28, 2018, 10:39:03 AM
Bloc implodes as 7/10 MPs quit to sit as Indies.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2018, 10:57:00 AM
Bloc implodes as 7/10 MPs quit to sit as Indies.

Wonder how this plays out in 2019?

The problem for non-Liberal Quebecers is that the opposition is so evenly divided, which should allow the Liberals a massive majority in Quebec on 40-45% of the vote. If Bloc support mainly goes to one party (NDP?), it could help keep the Liberals in check. On the other hand Indies vs official Bloc candidates could give even more seats to the Liberals.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 28, 2018, 12:55:30 PM
People who voted Bloc in 2015 weren't gonna vote NDP next year. At any rate I expect Grits to win 60+ seats here regardless.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 28, 2018, 12:59:02 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2018, 04:23:33 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'


There are strong progressive criticisms of the Liberal tax changes. For example, the Liberal proposal would have resulted in a combined tax rate over 100% on the gain on sale of assets when winding down a company in some situations, until they fixed the wording on budget day.

Seems like the sort of thing the NDP could attack in good conscience. Besides, the proposals were a vaguely worded mess.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 28, 2018, 07:29:01 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'


There are strong progressive criticisms of the Liberal tax changes. For example, the Liberal proposal would have resulted in a combined tax rate over 100% on the gain on sale of assets when winding down a company in some situations, until they fixed the wording on budget day.

Seems like the sort of thing the NDP could attack in good conscience. Besides, the proposals were a vaguely worded mess.

Of the three areas of proposed changes, two of them were clear.  These incorporated small business tax perks are not a new issue and have been getting larger as the small business tax rate has decreased.  The idea used to be to that an incorporated small business and an unincorporated sole proprietorship or partnership would end up paying roughly the same total tax, but that hasn't been the case for a while now.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2018, 08:37:50 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'


There are strong progressive criticisms of the Liberal tax changes. For example, the Liberal proposal would have resulted in a combined tax rate over 100% on the gain on sale of assets when winding down a company in some situations, until they fixed the wording on budget day.

Seems like the sort of thing the NDP could attack in good conscience. Besides, the proposals were a vaguely worded mess.

Of the three areas of proposed changes, two of them were clear.  These incorporated small business tax perks are not a new issue and have been getting larger as the small business tax rate has decreased.  The idea used to be to that an incorporated small business and an unincorporated sole proprietorship or partnership would end up paying roughly the same total tax, but that hasn't been the case for a while now.

I'm well aware of the rationale, that was always clear. The nitty gritty of the proposals was not.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 28, 2018, 10:03:56 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'


There are strong progressive criticisms of the Liberal tax changes. For example, the Liberal proposal would have resulted in a combined tax rate over 100% on the gain on sale of assets when winding down a company in some situations, until they fixed the wording on budget day.

Seems like the sort of thing the NDP could attack in good conscience. Besides, the proposals were a vaguely worded mess.

Of the three areas of proposed changes, two of them were clear.  These incorporated small business tax perks are not a new issue and have been getting larger as the small business tax rate has decreased.  The idea used to be to that an incorporated small business and an unincorporated sole proprietorship or partnership would end up paying roughly the same total tax, but that hasn't been the case for a while now.

I'm well aware of the rationale, that was always clear. The nitty gritty of the proposals was not.

Kevin Milligan, who was the economist behind many of the proposals disagrees with you
http://blogs.ubc.ca/kevinmilligan/2017/09/10/taxation-of-private-corporations-an-explainer-compendium/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2018, 10:50:58 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'


There are strong progressive criticisms of the Liberal tax changes. For example, the Liberal proposal would have resulted in a combined tax rate over 100% on the gain on sale of assets when winding down a company in some situations, until they fixed the wording on budget day.

Seems like the sort of thing the NDP could attack in good conscience. Besides, the proposals were a vaguely worded mess.

Of the three areas of proposed changes, two of them were clear.  These incorporated small business tax perks are not a new issue and have been getting larger as the small business tax rate has decreased.  The idea used to be to that an incorporated small business and an unincorporated sole proprietorship or partnership would end up paying roughly the same total tax, but that hasn't been the case for a while now.

I'm well aware of the rationale, that was always clear. The nitty gritty of the proposals was not.

Kevin Milligan, who was the economist behind many of the proposals disagrees with you
http://blogs.ubc.ca/kevinmilligan/2017/09/10/taxation-of-private-corporations-an-explainer-compendium/

Milligan likes his own proposal?! We'll gee whiz. Next you'll tell me that Trudeau is voting Liberal in 2019.

Milligans website doesn't change the fact that the proposal as originally written, produced some really weird results like my 100% tax example. Bizarre cases like that indicate the proposal wasn't well written.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 01, 2018, 08:07:40 AM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'


There are strong progressive criticisms of the Liberal tax changes. For example, the Liberal proposal would have resulted in a combined tax rate over 100% on the gain on sale of assets when winding down a company in some situations, until they fixed the wording on budget day.

Seems like the sort of thing the NDP could attack in good conscience. Besides, the proposals were a vaguely worded mess.

Of the three areas of proposed changes, two of them were clear.  These incorporated small business tax perks are not a new issue and have been getting larger as the small business tax rate has decreased.  The idea used to be to that an incorporated small business and an unincorporated sole proprietorship or partnership would end up paying roughly the same total tax, but that hasn't been the case for a while now.

I'm well aware of the rationale, that was always clear. The nitty gritty of the proposals was not.

Kevin Milligan, who was the economist behind many of the proposals disagrees with you
http://blogs.ubc.ca/kevinmilligan/2017/09/10/taxation-of-private-corporations-an-explainer-compendium/

Milligan likes his own proposal?! We'll gee whiz. Next you'll tell me that Trudeau is voting Liberal in 2019.

Milligans website doesn't change the fact that the proposal as originally written, produced some really weird results like my 100% tax example. Bizarre cases like that indicate the proposal wasn't well written.

All it indicates is that it's impossible to write legislation, especially tax legislation, that fits into every individual circumstance.  This is why the tax code is as long as it is.  I don't doubt that there were problems with some of the regulations, especially in the one area, but by and large the legislation and the accompanying regulations were as clear and as well thought out as possible pending consultations.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on March 02, 2018, 04:59:16 PM
Looks like the budget and India trip aren't helping the liberals.  Not just Forum is showing the Tories ahead (I don't for a minute believe the Tories are at 46% nationally or leading in Quebec), but now Ipsos shows them ahead by 5 points, 38% to 33% and NDP at 21%.  I still think Trudeau is favoured to win in 2019, but it seems he has been having a lot of self inflicted wounds and is somewhat arrogant.  Usually arrogance is a party's downfall so the liberals should probably stop assuming they have the next election in the bag and instead assume they are the underdog if not.  Complacency and arrogance are usually party's downfalls.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 03, 2018, 05:59:24 PM
SK: Meili won the Dipper leadership.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on March 06, 2018, 11:59:44 AM
Former Alberta Opposition Leader Brian Jean has resigned his seat in the legislature. (http://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/former-ucp-leadership-contender-brian-jean-quits-as-fort-mcmurray-mla)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on March 06, 2018, 03:37:55 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'



Small Businesses are the job creators and should be taxed at less than the Income Rate


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 09, 2018, 05:00:43 PM
Quote
There was issues with the small business changes, which could have been very bad for small businesses

Not a single one of the changes as per the defined regulations would have been bad for small businesses whatsoever, as only the already extremely profitable small businesses would have been subject to the tax changes. There were a handful of proposed regulations that according to the small business community might have been harmful because they were not precisely spelled out.

The arguments of how these small business tax changes would have hurt small business or Canada in general are definitely 'neo liberal' arguments:

1.Business people deserve extra tax advantages because they are 'job creators'

2.If business owners (not the businesses themselves) are taxed at normal rates they won't grow the economy is an argument which is the very definition of 'trickle down supply side economics.'



Small Businesses are the job creators and should be taxed at less than the Income Rate

There is no shortage of people who want to be 'job creators.'  By far the bigger problem is people who want to be 'job creators' because they are enticed by the lower taxation but don't otherwise have the temperament or skills to own a business than any problem with a lack of would be 'job creators.'


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 10, 2018, 06:50:10 PM
In non-PCPO news, Trost has lost renomination.  (https://twitter.com/tammyrobert/status/972617281359482880)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 11, 2018, 12:42:37 PM
In non-PCPO news, Trost has lost renomination.  (https://twitter.com/tammyrobert/status/972617281359482880)

Story time: during the Tory leadership race, some friends and I were trying to decide which socon to first preference, so we decided to ask the candidates some questions at an event. Lemieux when pressed, admitted that he was running to give socons someone to vote for without reservations, and to make sure the new leader couldn't ignore us. Trost on the other hand really seemed to believe that he could pull off a victory.

I wonder if his penchant for overconfidence played a role in his downfall?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on March 11, 2018, 04:38:38 PM
In non-PCPO news, Trost has lost renomination.  (https://twitter.com/tammyrobert/status/972617281359482880)

Story time: during the Tory leadership race, some friends and I were trying to decide which socon to first preference, so we decided to ask the candidates some questions at an event. Lemieux when pressed, admitted that he was running to give socons someone to vote for without reservations, and to make sure the new leader couldn't ignore us. Trost on the other hand really seemed to believe that he could pull off a victory.

I wonder if his penchant for overconfidence played a role in his downfall?

https://twitter.com/yknot05/status/972621238513184768


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: TheSaint250 on March 11, 2018, 05:13:49 PM
I can't find it now, but there was a poll or two released after the PC leadership results showing the NDP surpassing the Liberals and PC dropping down into the 30s.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 14, 2018, 07:32:11 AM
Leger has released a federal poll pegging the Bloc at 12% in Quebec. Guess 2015 was their last hurrah.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 16, 2018, 10:09:03 PM
Leger has released a federal poll pegging the Bloc at 12% in Quebec. Guess 2015 was their last hurrah.

That poll also has questions about the Bloc.
http://leger360.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/RapportPolitiqueF%C3%A9d%C3%A9ralMars2018_FINAL.pdf (http://leger360.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/RapportPolitiqueF%C3%A9d%C3%A9ralMars2018_FINAL.pdf)

Bloc MP's role in Ottawa should mostly be defends Quebec interests (76%); 8% promote sovereignty. Among Bloc voters, in this poll about 40 people,  it's 69% to 31%.

52% think Ouellet should resign, 15% stay. Among the remaining Bloc voters subgroup it's split, 37% stay, 36% resign.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ProgressiveCanadian on March 16, 2018, 11:42:30 PM
Leger has released a federal poll pegging the Bloc at 12% in Quebec. Guess 2015 was their last hurrah.

That poll also has questions about the Bloc.
http://leger360.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/RapportPolitiqueF%C3%A9d%C3%A9ralMars2018_FINAL.pdf (http://leger360.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/RapportPolitiqueF%C3%A9d%C3%A9ralMars2018_FINAL.pdf)

Bloc MP's role in Ottawa should mostly be defends Quebec interests (76%); 8% promote sovereignty. Among Bloc voters, in this poll about 40 people,  it's 69% to 31%.

52% think Ouellet should resign, 15% stay. Among the remaining Bloc voters subgroup it's split, 37% stay, 36% resign.
Provincial numbers are a bit off on that poll. Greens are way too low in BC.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on March 17, 2018, 12:26:20 AM
Re: Jagmeet Singh, JT's India trip etc., how does this impact diaspora poltiics and voting patterns?  Do the Tories basically give up on appealing to much of the Sikh community at all and just become the "pro-Modi" party and focus on Hindus? How do the Liberals balance taking on Singh's "weakness on Khalistani terrorism" without alienating their own sizable Sikh vote?  



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MAINEiac4434 on March 18, 2018, 01:05:32 AM
I do think it’s kind of interesting that in 20 years the Quebec sovereignty went from the precipice of victory to basically completely dead.

Who even are the souveranistes anymore?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 18, 2018, 05:31:49 AM
I do think it’s kind of interesting that in 20 years the Quebec sovereignty went from the precipice of victory to basically completely dead.

Who even are the souveranistes anymore?

Boomers mostly.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 19, 2018, 05:32:47 PM
Ouellet has agreed to a confidence vote on her leadership. (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/ouellet-bloc-leadership-vote-1.4582649)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on March 19, 2018, 09:56:36 PM
Two new Polls out today and neither good for Trudeau

Angus Reid

Cons 40%
Libs 30%
NDP 19%

Nanos (four week rolling so Tories might have pulled ahead but narrowest margin since 2015 election nonetheless)

Libs 35.9%
Cons 34.8%
NDP 18.5%

Also on best PM, party power index, and leadership approval Liberals at record low so far and Tories at high point.  Not saying the Liberals are out of it, they still have lots of time to recover, but probably might want to change tactics a bit.  It seems not just federally but provincially in Ontario, there is a goal of who can out left each other between the Liberals and NDP forgetting it is the centre not left where elections are usually won.  Millennials may want to move leftward, but Gen Xers, Boomers, and Silent generation don't.  Otherwise it appears Red Tory and Blue Liberal support is leaking away to the Tories.  Off course they may find Scheer and/or Doug Ford too extreme, but the fact it is their right flank not left flank deserting them suggests they might want to pay a bit more attention to it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 20, 2018, 09:36:53 AM
Two new Polls out today and neither good for Trudeau

Angus Reid

Cons 40%
Libs 30%
NDP 19%


What I found interesting about that poll is that they had approval ratings of various PM's at equivalent points in their mandates. Apparently Harper had a better approval rating at this stage, which I found surprising.

Also on best PM, party power index, and leadership approval Liberals at record low so far and Tories at high point.  Not saying the Liberals are out of it, they still have lots of time to recover, but probably might want to change tactics a bit.  It seems not just federally but provincially in Ontario, there is a goal of who can out left each other between the Liberals and NDP forgetting it is the centre not left where elections are usually won.  Millennials may want to move leftward, but Gen Xers, Boomers, and Silent generation don't.  Otherwise it appears Red Tory and Blue Liberal support is leaking away to the Tories.  Off course they may find Scheer and/or Doug Ford too extreme, but the fact it is their right flank not left flank deserting them suggests they might want to pay a bit more attention to it.

Well, some of that centre to centre right support, will drift back when the SCARY SCHEER attack ads start, but you're right that Trudeau will need to shore up that flank at some point.

It's been quite a while since Trudeau has said anything appealing to me. Now obviously I'm a hardcore socon and will never vote Liberal, but I'm in their universe economically, and I still haven't liked anything I've heard in a long time. I don't think that's necessarily the case for our resident NDP voters.

I'd also suggest that Trudeau's India debacle has disproportionately impacted his right flank. The sort of people who like Paul Martin, Scott Brison etc seem very concerned with "seriousness" and that trip really impacted Trudeau's credibility as a "serious" politician.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on March 22, 2018, 08:37:27 PM
Right now progressives clearly dominate most levels of government, but will be interesting if a rightward shift is happening.  Both Doug Ford in Ontario and Jason Kenney in Alberta are well to the right of centre and have large leads in the polls so will be interesting what affect that has on national relations and conservatism should both win.  Also Quebec could swing rightward too with the CAQ ahead in most polls.

I do wonder though if Kenney, Ford, and Legault win in each of their provinces, that will help Trudeau since people will want someone on the left to balance the right wing dominance at the provincial level from the Rockies to the Atlantic or does it really matter?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: EPG on March 23, 2018, 02:52:37 AM
With the greatest of respect to Ontarian voters, it seems that the winning party in their provincial elections can be strongly predicted based on the identity of the federal opposition parties.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 23, 2018, 09:09:19 AM
Ontarians tend to vote for the opposite party that is in power federally. 2003 & 2007 are the only recent exceptions.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on March 23, 2018, 11:33:08 AM
Ontarians tend to vote for the opposite party that is in power federally. 2003 & 2007 are the only recent exceptions.



You mean 2015, not 2007 as then we had a federal Conservative government.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on March 26, 2018, 12:47:14 PM
More bad news for the Trudeau government https://globalnews.ca/news/4104673/trudeau-liberals-approval-rating-down/ .

Cons 38%
Lib 31%
NDP 23%

NDP seems a bit on the high side compared to others, but the trend seems to show the past few weeks have not been a good one for the Trudeau government.  Off course there is still plenty of time to recover before the election and of the Conservative support only 30-33% could be described as solid, the additional 5-7% are dissatisfied Liberals parking their votes there and depending on how things go between now and the next election may stay there or return to the Liberals.  But the Liberals need to take this seriously and make changes if they want to win them back.  It can easily be done, but will they or not is the question.  Also Nanos has a poll out tonight so interesting if the Liberals will still be in the lead or not.  If the Tories do poll ahead, it will be the first time in 2.5 years they have done so and if they break the 35% mark, that will be the first time since 2012 they have done that.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on March 26, 2018, 09:27:24 PM
Nanos has the Liberals still slightly ahead so whichever one is right seems support is soft and we would probably get a minority government now, but a lot can and will change in the next 18 months.

Libs 38.1%
Cons 34.7%
NDP16.3%


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 26, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
There is a bog difference in the NDP number.
Perhaps the Ipsos numbers in Ontario is more for the provincial election than federal numbers.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on March 26, 2018, 10:44:04 PM
There is a bog difference in the NDP number.
Perhaps the Ipsos numbers in Ontario is more for the provincial election than federal numbers.


Or maybe people are confusing the two as provincial is coming up soon as its true the Ontario numbers look more realistic for provincial than federal as least with respect to the Liberals and NDP.  The Tory numbers are actually almost identical in Ontario, 43% in Nanos, while 42% in Ipsos, but NDP vs. Liberals much different.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on March 27, 2018, 12:24:42 AM
There is a bog difference in the NDP number.
Perhaps the Ipsos numbers in Ontario is more for the provincial election than federal numbers.


Nanos always has much lower for NDP than other pollsters (except just before an election) and Nik never hid his comtempt for them.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 28, 2018, 05:42:13 AM
Wells on the Dipper mini-crisis. (http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/free-advice-to-the-ndp-measure-twice-cut-once/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 03, 2018, 02:20:31 AM
I just had a flash. Why no party (the NDP, for exemple) never ran on a of dismantling communications companies (like Bell)?

Given how much they are hated, this would be a popular policy.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 03, 2018, 01:08:35 PM
Interesting article by Eric Grenier on Trudeau's midterm slump http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-midmandate-polls-1.4597222 .  Looking at the past it seems he could certainly recover, but also just as easily slide further.  Usually parties recover by changing channels so probably needs to focus more on economic issues and less virtue signaling and maybe be in front of the camera a little less.  At the same time if Ford wins in Ontario that should help him there as Quebec and Atlantic Canada will likely go Liberal no matter what in most seats, BC will be a mix of the three parties, Prairies mostly Tory, so comes down to Ontario where unpopularity of Wynne is probably dragging him down.  Looking at past first term provincial governments, at this point, this is what I've found.

BC:

NDP in the 90s: Trailing by over 25 points, but did manage to come back and win in 1996 although this was before fixed election dates so had an extra year and also change of leader.

BC Liberals 2004:  I think 18 months out the BC Liberals were around 45% so close to what they got in 2005, but NDP was much lower than the 42% they got due to vote splits.  However, 12 months out, the NDP had pulled ahead and wasn't until the final four months the BC Liberals regained the lead.

SK:

NDP in 90s: Believe Romanow had a big lead at this point, but not sure if he went up or down.

Saskatchewan Party circa 2010: Brad Wall was polling north of 60% so similar to the results in 2011.

MB:

NDP circa 2002:  NDP was in the lead but I believe polls showed things tighter than they actually were in 2003 so NDP gained.

ON:

Libs circa 1988: David Peterson had massive lead, but lost in 1990 on opportunistic early election call

NDP circa 1993: Trailing very badly in the polls, I believe below what they got in 1995, mind you Liberals not PCs were in the lead.

PCs circa 1998: I believe polls were tied or Liberals slightly ahead but in the final year PCs regained the lead and won in 1999.

Liberals circa 2006: Liberals tied or slightly ahead but in minority territory so did better in 2007 that polls at this point.

Actually in Ontario, since 1995, the governing party has always rebounded somewhat and the opposition in each case dropped a bit.

QC:

PLQ circa 2006: Charest trailing in the polls although starting to recover a bit.  I think the PLQ actually got roughly the same percentage as polls said in 2007, the big differnece is PQ plummeted while ADQ surged.

NB:

PCs circa 2002: PCs led by Bernard Lord had a massive lead in the polls while in 2003 they barely hung onto power

Liberals circa 2009: Liberals ahead in the polls, but plummeted after the Hydro-Quebec deal and ended up losing quite badly in 2010

PCs circa 2013: Were trailing by 20 points so recovered a bit but not enough to win in 2014.

PEI:

Liberals circa 2010: Had a 20 point lead so tightened although I think Liberal support only dropped a few points, but PCs surged by 10 points while third parties fell.  Liberals still won handidly in 2011 anyways.

NS:

NDP Circa 2012: Trailing badly in the polls but did even worse on election day.  Liberal support was pretty much bang on what they got but PCs climbed and NDP fell further.

Liberals circa 2016: Liberals had a 25 point + lead yet narrowed to only 3.5 points in 2017 election.

NL:

PCs circa 2006: PCs had big lead then, but grew even larger in 2007

So as you can see certainly Trudeau can eaisly recover to majority territory, but also the Tories (I don't think they are likely to get a majority BTW) could also climb into majority territory too based on history.  Ironically enough since the 80s, the Tories in every election save 1993 have always outperformed what polls showed them 18 months earlier even in the elections they lost.  For the Liberals they have underperformed their polls 18 months in every election save 2015 when they outperformed them (NDP underperformed there).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 03, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
Speaking of Peterson, why on earth did he call that snap election in 1990? He had a massive majority so it's not like he could expect to improve on his 1987 result.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 03, 2018, 03:42:55 PM
Speaking of Peterson, why on earth did he call that snap election in 1990? He had a massive majority so it's not like he could expect to improve on his 1987 result.

He saw the recession coming and knew that would hurt his poll numbers so wanted the election before then.  Same reason Harper in 2008 and Prentice in 2015 went.  In Harper's case it worked out okay (although I think he would have won a majority had he let the opposition take him down) and Prentice it didn't.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on April 07, 2018, 02:03:46 PM
A year ago, I was lamenting that the Boy-Emperor would be with us until the 2030s and now it seems that the only thing that might save his hide is... Doug Ford.

Funny world we live in.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 07, 2018, 07:08:05 PM
Ontarians tend to vote for the opposite party that is in power federally. 2003 & 2007 are the only recent exceptions.



You mean 2015, not 2007 as then we had a federal Conservative government.

I meant in provincial elections.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on April 07, 2018, 08:49:34 PM
The mayor of Trois-Rivières, Yves Lévesque, could finally make a move to federal politics in 2019. The news speculated with the Conservatives but he had talks with both the Liberals and Conservatives in previous elections.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 08, 2018, 04:56:11 PM
Kinder Morgan news. (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/kinder-morgan-canada-limited-suspends-non-essential-spending-on-trans-mountain-expansion-project-300626072.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on April 09, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
A year ago, I was lamenting that the Boy-Emperor would be with us until the 2030s and now it seems that the only thing that might save his hide is... Doug Ford.

Funny world we live in.


Go Doug Ford then



Trudeau is he worst Canadian PM at least since WW2


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 09, 2018, 02:10:58 PM
A year ago, I was lamenting that the Boy-Emperor would be with us until the 2030s and now it seems that the only thing that might save his hide is... Doug Ford.

Funny world we live in.


Go Doug Ford then



Trudeau is he worst Canadian PM at least since WW2

It's been 2 1/2 years and he hasn't done anything particularly memorable from an historical perspective. I don't like him but Trudeau Sr. and Mulroney are much better candidates for worst PM depending on your politics. (It's not a left right thing either. Trudeau and Mulroney both did stuff to upset their respective sides)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 18, 2018, 08:05:22 AM
Nanos has the Liberals in the 40's again, so the India debacle may have sorted itself out on its own. Will have to see if other polls confirm.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on April 19, 2018, 01:44:58 AM
Tories next time they get in power should deregulate the media



If CBC is good enough they should be able to handle new competition


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 19, 2018, 02:39:15 AM
Tories next time they get in power should deregulate the media



If CBC is good enough they should be able to handle new competition

Canadian media is very deregulated. Only reason CBC has not much competition is because Bell, Rogers and Quebecor owns the great majority of TV channels. They just bought out the other players.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on April 19, 2018, 08:31:10 AM
Why hasn't this troll been banned yet?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on April 19, 2018, 03:04:50 PM
Why hasn't this troll been banned yet?

Don't be rude, this is not a troll, just a Fox News viewer.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: cp on April 20, 2018, 07:34:30 AM
Six of one ... :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 20, 2018, 09:19:53 AM
The Liberals are disciplining Scott Simms for voting with the Tories on the abortion motion by removing him from his committee chair. The NDP have backed down from disciplining David Christopherson for the same thing.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 22, 2018, 12:01:01 AM
Mainstreet Research will have a big poll out next week for each province and federally.  Will be interesting if it shows Tories ahead like some have or Liberals well ahead as Nanos does as it seems there is little consensus on federal polling.  Mind you digging deeper into the Nanos numbers suggests there are a lot of soft supporters on the fence so maybe that is why.  Claimed there was a Kinder Morgan surprise so will be interesting what this is.  Have the BC Liberals regained the lead in BC or have the NDP either pulled ahead or significantly closed the gap in Alberta?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 22, 2018, 05:54:00 AM
The Supreme Court upheld New Brunswick's liquor laws in R v. Comeau. My dream of importing cheap booze is dead :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 22, 2018, 03:26:15 PM
Grit MP Francis Drouin has been accused of sexual assault in Halifax, he says he's cooperating with police. No PMO comment.  Former Tory MP Keith Ashfield has died at 66.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 25, 2018, 10:19:33 AM
Mainstreet has their first part of their mega poll and BC is now out on scribd.com.  Quite interesting.  The horse race in BC only for federal parties is as follows:

Cons 39%
Libs 25%
NDP 20%
Greens 13%

While provincially looks like some movement over the pipeline as other polls seem to be hinting.  That being said with no other direct polls, it would be nice to get confirmation to see if this is the result of real movement or just noise.  Either way if the numbers are true, it makes sense on where the parties stand on PR.  BC Liberal majority under FTFP, while nail biter between centre-right (BC Liberals + BC Conservatives) and centre-left (NDP + Greens) under PR.

BC Libs 37%
NDP  31%
Greens 17%
BC Cons 13%

So centre-right is 50% and centre-left is 48%, which is actually pretty close to what it was in 2013, but well off last election.  Off course always best to view this one with a bit of skepticism.  Tomorrow Alberta and national are out although a Jan Brown poll just on the issues seems to hint the pipeline is not doing the NDP any favours while UCP leading on who is best to handle different issues by a sizeable margin but no horse race numbers.  Insights West and Angus-Reid also both show most in BC are now for the pipeline and support has risen.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 26, 2018, 09:13:10 AM
Mainstreet research is out with their omnibus poll.  The numbers for BC are a bit different than posted above as these appear to be different surveys, but still broadly similar.  It appears the pipeline dispute is helping Notley who has narrowed the gap quite a bit, while hurting Horgan who has fallen behind.  Nationally, the Liberals are still ahead, but with Conservatives at 37.1% and NDP at only 11.9% it appears lack of splits on the left is helping the Liberals and hurting the Conservatives despite support being similar to what they got in 2006 and 2008 when they won.

National:

Libs 40.4%
Cons 37.1%
NDP 11.9%
Greens 5.9%
BQ 2.6%

Alberta:

UCP 48.6%
NDP 35.4%
Libs 6.2%
AB party 5.1%
Greens 2.4%

BC:

BC Libs 36.8%
NDP 34.8%
Greens 15.7%
BC Cons 11.4%

BC Conservatives at 11.4% seems rather high so if the next election is held under FTFP and these numbers hold (obviously with no election on the horizon, they will change), that could mean a bigger BC Liberal win.  If we go to PR, narrow edge for the NDP/Greens as it is 48.2% for BC Libs + BC Cons vs. 50.5% for BC NDP + BC Greens, but does show switching systems does not guarantee the NDP and Greens will get back in.  In fact it could actually pull the BC Liberals further to the right as I suspect for the BC Conservatives backing, they would demand certain concessions such as scrapping the carbon tax and perhaps a few other things.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lachi on April 28, 2018, 07:56:31 AM
What is it with Forum Research and their obviously pro conservative polling?
()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 28, 2018, 06:55:21 PM
What is it with Forum Research and their obviously pro conservative polling?
()

Forum has been showing the Tories ahead in contrast with others so probably a methological problem.  If you look at the breakdown, there is no way in hell the Tories are in the lead in Quebec.  Yes they are now in solid second place and north of 20%, but not in front.  Atlantic Canada numbers are a bit tighter than others but could be chalked up to margin of error.  Ontario numbers at least seem plausible, Prairies Tories a bit on the high side.  The Tories are at 73% in Alberta and while they wouldn't make much difference in seats, I suspect they are not that high as even Alberta has a strong progressive minority, its not monolithically right wing.  British Columbia at least seems believable as both Angus-Reid and Mainstreet suggest Tories due to pipeline politics have pulled ahead there.  My guess is either things are tied or Liberals are slightly ahead but if an election were called today it would probably be a Liberal minority IMHO.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on April 29, 2018, 02:20:51 AM
NDP under Jagmeet Singh is looking like an unmitigated disaster. Not going for a seat in the House was a ridiculous decision. He comes off as an over-confident high-school debater on TV and could have seriously benefited from having some practice and actual attention in the HoC. His caucus doesn’t respect him because its members don’t know him, and they’re probably all losing faith by the day with poll numbers like these.

Sure, Mulcair made some tactical errors, but surely there must be some party members regretting that they gave him the boot. After Justin’s sanctimonious and empty tenure as PM, Mulcair might actually be exactly the kind of leader people would want. Kind of a shame.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: EPG on April 29, 2018, 02:23:56 AM
They didn't want him when he was actually opposition leader, correct?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on April 29, 2018, 02:28:10 AM
They didn't want him when he was actually opposition leader, correct?

I don’t recall hearing this. Maybe I’m wrong though. But it looks like the “not good enough” showing they had in 2015 will be far better than whatever abysmal result they manage next time, so...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 29, 2018, 06:31:12 AM
What is it with Forum Research and their obviously pro conservative polling?
()

Forum has been showing the Tories ahead in contrast with others so probably a methological problem.  If you look at the breakdown, there is no way in hell the Tories are in the lead in Quebec.  Yes they are now in solid second place and north of 20%, but not in front.  Atlantic Canada numbers are a bit tighter than others but could be chalked up to margin of error.  Ontario numbers at least seem plausible, Prairies Tories a bit on the high side.  The Tories are at 73% in Alberta and while they wouldn't make much difference in seats, I suspect they are not that high as even Alberta has a strong progressive minority, its not monolithically right wing.  British Columbia at least seems believable as both Angus-Reid and Mainstreet suggest Tories due to pipeline politics have pulled ahead there.  My guess is either things are tied or Liberals are slightly ahead but if an election were called today it would probably be a Liberal minority IMHO.

What's funny is that everyone used to complain about Forum's pro-Liberal polling pre-2015


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on April 29, 2018, 07:33:34 AM
Weird how the polling world has completely Balkanized and how many of them openly hate on each other online since Justin won.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 29, 2018, 03:19:11 PM
NDP under Jagmeet Singh is looking like an unmitigated disaster. Not going for a seat in the House was a ridiculous decision. He comes off as an over-confident high-school debater on TV and could have seriously benefited from having some practice and actual attention in the HoC. His caucus doesn’t respect him because its members don’t know him, and they’re probably all losing faith by the day with poll numbers like these.

Sure, Mulcair made some tactical errors, but surely there must be some party members regretting that they gave him the boot. After Justin’s sanctimonious and empty tenure as PM, Mulcair might actually be exactly the kind of leader people would want. Kind of a shame.

That is probably true although I am not sure changing leaders would do much.  The problem the NDP faces as the Liberals have abandoned the centre and moved to the left into traditional NDP territory so they have little space left.  If they tried to move into the centre where the Liberals are that wouldn't work as most Blue Liberals and Red Tories can swing between the Tories and Liberals but will never vote NDP.  So they are between a rock and a hard place.  The best strategy for the NDP is just wait until Trudeau screws up badly as I suspect any votes who loses to the Tories will be in 2019, but after that so when people tire of him the NDP much like the Ontario NDP who is almost identical to the Ontario Liberals will stand most to benefit.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on April 30, 2018, 12:01:06 PM
Mainstreet has their first part of their mega poll and BC is now out on scribd.com.  Quite interesting.  The horse race in BC only for federal parties is as follows:

Cons 39%
Libs 25%
NDP 20%
Greens 13%

While provincially looks like some movement over the pipeline as other polls seem to be hinting.  That being said with no other direct polls, it would be nice to get confirmation to see if this is the result of real movement or just noise.  Either way if the numbers are true, it makes sense on where the parties stand on PR.  BC Liberal majority under FTFP, while nail biter between centre-right (BC Liberals + BC Conservatives) and centre-left (NDP + Greens) under PR.

BC Libs 37%
NDP  31%
Greens 17%
BC Cons 13%

So centre-right is 50% and centre-left is 48%, which is actually pretty close to what it was in 2013, but well off last election.  Off course always best to view this one with a bit of skepticism.  Tomorrow Alberta and national are out although a Jan Brown poll just on the issues seems to hint the pipeline is not doing the NDP any favours while UCP leading on who is best to handle different issues by a sizeable margin but no horse race numbers.  Insights West and Angus-Reid also both show most in BC are now for the pipeline and support has risen.

Have the BC Conservatives actually reestablished themselves or are their double digit polls just people who aren't aware of the difference between federal and provincial politics?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on April 30, 2018, 01:51:09 PM
Mainstreet has their first part of their mega poll and BC is now out on scribd.com.  Quite interesting.  The horse race in BC only for federal parties is as follows:

Cons 39%
Libs 25%
NDP 20%
Greens 13%

While provincially looks like some movement over the pipeline as other polls seem to be hinting.  That being said with no other direct polls, it would be nice to get confirmation to see if this is the result of real movement or just noise.  Either way if the numbers are true, it makes sense on where the parties stand on PR.  BC Liberal majority under FTFP, while nail biter between centre-right (BC Liberals + BC Conservatives) and centre-left (NDP + Greens) under PR.

BC Libs 37%
NDP  31%
Greens 17%
BC Cons 13%

So centre-right is 50% and centre-left is 48%, which is actually pretty close to what it was in 2013, but well off last election.  Off course always best to view this one with a bit of skepticism.  Tomorrow Alberta and national are out although a Jan Brown poll just on the issues seems to hint the pipeline is not doing the NDP any favours while UCP leading on who is best to handle different issues by a sizeable margin but no horse race numbers.  Insights West and Angus-Reid also both show most in BC are now for the pipeline and support has risen.

Have the BC Conservatives actually reestablished themselves or are their double digit polls just people who aren't aware of the difference between federal and provincial politics?

Largely the latter although I think this fall's referendum on whether to switch to PR or not will be key for them.  If PR passes, I suspect they will get around those numbers, but if voters opt to stick with FTFP, I suspect those will fall back to low single digits.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 01, 2018, 02:13:52 PM
The seven ex-Bloc MPs are considering forming their own party. (http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/seven-ex-bloc-quebecois-mps-considering-forming-new-party)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on May 01, 2018, 09:16:05 PM
The seven ex-Bloc MPs are considering forming their own party. (http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/seven-ex-bloc-quebecois-mps-considering-forming-new-party)

They were convinced to wait the Bloc's general council (held last weekend) before definitively cutting ties with the Bloc. MP and party President Mario Beaulieu was no longer supporting Ouellet and with maybe 40 riding presidents were behind a proposal to have a confidence vote on leadership in mid-May and it would take 75% support for her to stay. The meeting was about 200 people and the proposal was narrowly defeated. So the Ouellet plan of a confidence vote and question on primary goal of the Bloc on June 1-2 was adopted. She says a simple majority is enough for her to stay.

In her speech she blamed the ex-MPs for the crisis and fake news, criticized Duceppe. Last month she threatened media with lawsuit. Maybe she can win the confidence vote since a lot of people are leaving already. Even if she loses the vote, there is too much damaged for someone to become leader or be involved with the party.

Mario Beaulieu is thinking about his future, the VP has resigned, the director od the party and the finance director are quitting.     


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 02, 2018, 10:25:39 AM
Yikes what a crapshow. Any ideas for a name for the new parti?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on May 02, 2018, 10:54:05 AM
More sad news on parliament hill, Conservative MP Gord Brown (Leeds-Grenville-Thousand Islands & Rideau Lakes) died of a heartattack this morning.  He was 57.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 08, 2018, 11:11:49 AM
NDP MP Christine Moore accused of sexual harassment by a disabled veteran. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/jagmeet-singh-says-he-always-believes-survivors-well-here-s-another-one-1.4652795)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 10, 2018, 01:49:17 PM
Moore also sexted Glen Kirkland (the vet in question) after sleeping with him. (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/mp-kennedy-stewart-to-make-an-announcement-about-vancouver-mayoral-election-thursday)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on May 11, 2018, 07:24:55 PM
Weir is now listed as a Cooperative Commonwealth Federation member in the House of Commons. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/weir-new-party-ccf-1.4659853)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on May 11, 2018, 08:04:39 PM
Weir is now listed as a Cooperative Commonwealth Federation member in the House of Commons. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/weir-new-party-ccf-1.4659853)

Haha


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 12, 2018, 09:18:30 AM
Former Bloc leader Michel Gauthier has joined the Tories. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201805/11/01-5181588-michel-gauthier-se-joint-aux-conservateurs.php)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 12, 2018, 09:43:34 AM
Weir is now listed as a Cooperative Commonwealth Federation member in the House of Commons. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/weir-new-party-ccf-1.4659853)

Haha

That's amazing.

Former Bloc leader Michel Gauthier has joined the Tories. (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201805/11/01-5181588-michel-gauthier-se-joint-aux-conservateurs.php)

Will that move any votes or is he basically unknown after ten years out of parliament?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 12, 2018, 10:16:02 AM
No effect. Scheer's looking for strong local candidates, like the mayor of Trois-Rivières mentioned in that article.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: TheSaint250 on May 12, 2018, 11:24:38 AM
Has the House of Commons ever been this diversified in terms of declared parties?

(Seriously asking. I have no frame of reference.)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 12, 2018, 11:36:38 AM
Has the House of Commons ever been this diversified in terms of declared parties?

(Seriously asking. I have no frame of reference.)

Yes. In the last Parliament, Bloc also splintered into a regionalist group called Strength in Democracy, which won no seats in 2015 and is now defunct. I imagine the same will happen again. 5 parties have been represented more often than not since multiparty politics sprouted after WW1.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on May 12, 2018, 06:36:39 PM
The federal constituency of Manicouagan will likely change name to become Côte-Nord.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1100463/la-circonscription-federale-manicouagan-change-de-nom (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1100463/la-circonscription-federale-manicouagan-change-de-nom)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on May 12, 2018, 06:49:29 PM
Yikes what a crapshow. Any ideas for a name for the new parti?
The ex-Bloc MPs will registere under the name Québec Debout.
Some have said they would welcome federalists wanting to work with them to defend Quebec's interests, that they are not stricly for sovereignists. The new Bloc VP called the new party crypto federalists.

Mario Beaulieu has decided to stay in the Bloc but will work to defeat Ouellet. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on May 13, 2018, 01:38:00 AM
Wait I thought Beaulieu was a hardcore seperatist, what's his beef with Ouellet?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 13, 2018, 03:20:49 PM
Wait I thought Beaulieu was a hardcore seperatist, what's his beef with Ouellet?

He considers her management of the crisis to have hurt the party and, as such, is a terrible party leader who brought division into the party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on May 13, 2018, 03:25:46 PM
Bit rich from what I remember of his leadership of the party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 13, 2018, 07:01:21 PM
Bit rich from what I remember of his leadership of the party.

To be fair to him, he actually stepped down when he realized it wasn't working well for the party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 17, 2018, 06:48:15 AM
Angus Reid has released a detailed poll about the Trudeau government's summer job abortion attestation. (http://angusreid.org/summer-job-attestation/)

The results are decidedly mixed. Opinion of the policy is divided exactly 50/50. When polled further, Canadians generally oppose the attestation when applied to things like churches running a soup kitchen, but support it when applied to political activism (which is fair IMO, so long as it's applied to all political activism).

I was surprised at the relative lack of partisanship on this issue. A large minority of Tory voters support the attestation and large minorities of Liberals and NDP supporters oppose it. I guess there are more pro-choicers absolutists on the right and more civil liberties absolutists on the left than I thought.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 17, 2018, 05:55:06 PM
Angus Reid has released a detailed poll about the Trudeau government's summer job abortion attestation. (http://angusreid.org/summer-job-attestation/)

The results are decidedly mixed. Opinion of the policy is divided exactly 50/50. When polled further, Canadians generally oppose the attestation when applied to things like churches running a soup kitchen, but support it when applied to political activism (which is fair IMO, so long as it's applied to all political activism).

I was surprised at the relative lack of partisanship on this issue. A large minority of Tory voters support the attestation and large minorities of Liberals and NDP supporters oppose it. I guess there are more pro-choicers absolutists on the right and more civil liberties absolutists on the left than I thought.

There is also a very significant part of Tory voters which are pro-choice.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 17, 2018, 06:27:37 PM
Patrick Brown's being wooed to run for Peel Region mayor but is noncommittal so far. Could be a comeback perch if he ran and won. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/17/patrick-brown-writing-a-tell-all-book-about-his-political-assassination.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 18, 2018, 06:22:24 AM
Patrick Brown's being wooed to run for Peel Region mayor but is noncommittal so far. Could be a comeback perch if he ran and won. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/17/patrick-brown-writing-a-tell-all-book-about-his-political-assassination.html)

Will believe it when I see it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 18, 2018, 07:11:22 AM
Angus Reid has released a detailed poll about the Trudeau government's summer job abortion attestation. (http://angusreid.org/summer-job-attestation/)

The results are decidedly mixed. Opinion of the policy is divided exactly 50/50. When polled further, Canadians generally oppose the attestation when applied to things like churches running a soup kitchen, but support it when applied to political activism (which is fair IMO, so long as it's applied to all political activism).

I was surprised at the relative lack of partisanship on this issue. A large minority of Tory voters support the attestation and large minorities of Liberals and NDP supporters oppose it. I guess there are more pro-choicers absolutists on the right and more civil liberties absolutists on the left than I thought.

There is also a very significant part of Tory voters which are pro-choice.

Oh I'm aware of that. I just figured that if they were that attached to abortion rights, they wouldn't vote Tory and therefore would be more partisan on this attestation issue. The same goes for why I'm surprised at how many Liberals and NDPers opposed the attestation.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 19, 2018, 12:06:35 PM
Patrick Brown's being wooed to run for Peel Region mayor but is noncommittal so far. Could be a comeback perch if he ran and won. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/17/patrick-brown-writing-a-tell-all-book-about-his-political-assassination.html)

Regions do not have mayors. He would be running for chair.

The federal constituency of Manicouagan will likely change name to become Côte-Nord.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1100463/la-circonscription-federale-manicouagan-change-de-nom (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1100463/la-circonscription-federale-manicouagan-change-de-nom)

Good call. Now if they could only re-name the provincial riding Duplessis to something less offensive.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 19, 2018, 02:44:08 PM
Why do they even name ridings after people in Quebec? Anything newer than Sir John A is bound to be controversial.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on May 19, 2018, 06:34:36 PM
Another name change for federal riding.. Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot will become Saint-Hyacinthe-Acton so the MRC d'Acton feels included and represented.

https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7 (https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7)

The article says it's part of riding name changes wanted by MPs in bill C-402 that looks to be in Senate now and take effect in next election.
http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496)

Nova Scotia:
Cape Breton—Canso becomes Cape Breton—North Nova
South Shore—St. Margarets becomes South Nova
Sydney—Victoria becomes Cape Breton by the Sea

Quebec:
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis becomes Lévis—Bellechasse—Etchemins
Jonquière becomes Jonquière—Haut-Saguenay
Manicouagan becomes Côte-Nord
Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot becomes Saint-Hyacinthe—Acton

Ontario:
Mississauga—Streetsville becomes Streetsville—Meadowvale—Lisgar
Nickel Belt becomes Greater Sudbury—Nickel Belt

Manitoba:
Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley becomes Winnipeg West—Headingley

Saskatchewan:
Regina—Lewvan becomes Regina West

Alberta:
Calgary Signal Hill becomes Calgary West
Fort McMurray—Cold Lake becomes Fort McMurray—Lac La Biche—Cold Lake

British Columbia:
Burnaby South becomes Burnaby—Douglas
Langley—Aldergrove becomes Langley—West Abbotsford
Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon becomes Abbotsford—Mission—Fraser Canyon


While looking for C-402 I came across another riding name change but it's not at the same legislative stage.  C-377 would change Châteauguay—Lacolle to Châteauguay—Les Jardins-de-Napierville.

http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on May 19, 2018, 07:19:16 PM
Why do they even name ridings after people in Quebec? Anything newer than Sir John A is bound to be controversial.

I imagine historically it was a way to honor political or historical figures and names are now kept because of history. For example there are 13 names of Premiers When Montreal ridings with people name merged instead of finding a new name both names were kept (like Bourassa-Sauvé, Jeanne Mance-Viger, Laurier-Dorion).

Unfortunately it's not a tradition of the past with the renaming of Crémazie to Maurice-Richard. I don't know what will happen if we get a mixed proportional system and the number of ridings reduced, if all people's name will be gone.   


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 19, 2018, 10:16:45 PM
Patrick Brown's being wooed to run for Peel Region mayor but is noncommittal so far. Could be a comeback perch if he ran and won. (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/17/patrick-brown-writing-a-tell-all-book-about-his-political-assassination.html)

Regions do not have mayors. He would be running for chair.

The federal constituency of Manicouagan will likely change name to become Côte-Nord.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1100463/la-circonscription-federale-manicouagan-change-de-nom (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1100463/la-circonscription-federale-manicouagan-change-de-nom)

Good call. Now if they could only re-name the provincial riding Duplessis to something less offensive.

The issue is than the constituency is named about the touristic region (for historical reasons Côte-Nord is split in two touristic regions; Manicouagan and Duplessis) and the border of both constituencies and touristic regions are similar.

Note they recently merged, but obviously, the names are still used.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on May 21, 2018, 05:45:37 PM
Notley's skipping the western premiers meeting and will send her deputy because in her words, Horgan's choking the Albertan and national economies. (https://twitter.com/RachelNotley/status/998691756479725568)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 21, 2018, 06:02:18 PM
Notley's skipping the western premiers meeting and will send her deputy because in her words, Horgan's choking the Albertan and national economies. (https://twitter.com/RachelNotley/status/998691756479725568)

Can the federal NDP kick her out already?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 23, 2018, 06:44:27 PM
Another name change for federal riding.. Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot will become Saint-Hyacinthe-Acton so the MRC d'Acton feels included and represented.

https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7 (https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7)

The article says it's part of riding name changes wanted by MPs in bill C-402 that looks to be in Senate now and take effect in next election.
http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496)

Nova Scotia:
Cape Breton—Canso becomes Cape Breton—North Nova
South Shore—St. Margarets becomes South Nova
Sydney—Victoria becomes Cape Breton by the Sea

Quebec:
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis becomes Lévis—Bellechasse—Etchemins
Jonquière becomes Jonquière—Haut-Saguenay
Manicouagan becomes Côte-Nord
Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot becomes Saint-Hyacinthe—Acton

Ontario:
Mississauga—Streetsville becomes Streetsville—Meadowvale—Lisgar
Nickel Belt becomes Greater Sudbury—Nickel Belt

Manitoba:
Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley becomes Winnipeg West—Headingley

Saskatchewan:
Regina—Lewvan becomes Regina West

Alberta:
Calgary Signal Hill becomes Calgary West
Fort McMurray—Cold Lake becomes Fort McMurray—Lac La Biche—Cold Lake

British Columbia:
Burnaby South becomes Burnaby—Douglas
Langley—Aldergrove becomes Langley—West Abbotsford
Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon becomes Abbotsford—Mission—Fraser Canyon


While looking for C-402 I came across another riding name change but it's not at the same legislative stage.  C-377 would change Châteauguay—Lacolle to Châteauguay—Les Jardins-de-Napierville.

http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762)

Most of these are terrible, but I'm glad to see the undoing of the dumb idea of listing the names within a riding name alphabetically in Quebec.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on May 23, 2018, 07:03:04 PM
York Centre should be changed to Downsview.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 23, 2018, 07:12:38 PM
York Centre should be changed to Downsview.

Or Downsview-Wilson Heights


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on May 24, 2018, 04:47:03 AM
Another name change for federal riding.. Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot will become Saint-Hyacinthe-Acton so the MRC d'Acton feels included and represented.

https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7 (https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7)

The article says it's part of riding name changes wanted by MPs in bill C-402 that looks to be in Senate now and take effect in next election.
http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496)

Nova Scotia:
Cape Breton—Canso becomes Cape Breton—North Nova
South Shore—St. Margarets becomes South Nova
Sydney—Victoria becomes Cape Breton by the Sea

Quebec:
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis becomes Lévis—Bellechasse—Etchemins
Jonquière becomes Jonquière—Haut-Saguenay
Manicouagan becomes Côte-Nord
Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot becomes Saint-Hyacinthe—Acton

Ontario:
Mississauga—Streetsville becomes Streetsville—Meadowvale—Lisgar
Nickel Belt becomes Greater Sudbury—Nickel Belt

Manitoba:
Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley becomes Winnipeg West—Headingley

Saskatchewan:
Regina—Lewvan becomes Regina West

Alberta:
Calgary Signal Hill becomes Calgary West
Fort McMurray—Cold Lake becomes Fort McMurray—Lac La Biche—Cold Lake

British Columbia:
Burnaby South becomes Burnaby—Douglas
Langley—Aldergrove becomes Langley—West Abbotsford
Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon becomes Abbotsford—Mission—Fraser Canyon


While looking for C-402 I came across another riding name change but it's not at the same legislative stage.  C-377 would change Châteauguay—Lacolle to Châteauguay—Les Jardins-de-Napierville.

http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762)

Most of these are terrible, but I'm glad to see the undoing of the dumb idea of listing the names within a riding name alphabetically in Quebec.

Those Nova Scotia names are AWFUL!

What is it with our government and calling every non-Halifax mainland riding _____ Nova?! Cape Breton-Canso, Sydney-Victoria and South Shore-St.Margaret's are all all accurate names for the places that people actually use in real life. Also, Cape Breton By The Sea sounds like a lame tourist slogan. Next redistribution I'm making a submission protesting these stupid, godawful names.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on May 24, 2018, 10:44:28 AM
Inserting tourist names into riding names is the whole new rage, don't you know? At least it's now as bad as Leeds-Grenville-Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on May 28, 2018, 11:25:07 PM
Sounds like Kinder Morgan will go ahead with rumours the federal government will buy out the pipeline.

 https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/feds-to-announce-tuesday-morning-that-trans-mountain-moving-forward-1.3949175

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-05-29/canada-said-likely-to-buy-full-trans-mountain-pipeline-project-jhr1as22?__twitter_impression=true


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 29, 2018, 12:07:58 AM
Shameful. Government shouldn't waste out money in Alberta's vanity project.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on May 29, 2018, 12:17:43 AM
Another name change for federal riding.. Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot will become Saint-Hyacinthe-Acton so the MRC d'Acton feels included and represented.

https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7 (https://www.lavoixdelest.ca/actualites/nouveau-nom-meme-identite-40d819ad72b947ec0d620530d9ce48b7)

The article says it's part of riding name changes wanted by MPs in bill C-402 that looks to be in Senate now and take effect in next election.
http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9831496)

Nova Scotia:
Cape Breton—Canso becomes Cape Breton—North Nova
South Shore—St. Margarets becomes South Nova
Sydney—Victoria becomes Cape Breton by the Sea

Quebec:
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis becomes Lévis—Bellechasse—Etchemins
Jonquière becomes Jonquière—Haut-Saguenay
Manicouagan becomes Côte-Nord
Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot becomes Saint-Hyacinthe—Acton

Ontario:
Mississauga—Streetsville becomes Streetsville—Meadowvale—Lisgar
Nickel Belt becomes Greater Sudbury—Nickel Belt

Manitoba:
Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley becomes Winnipeg West—Headingley

Saskatchewan:
Regina—Lewvan becomes Regina West

Alberta:
Calgary Signal Hill becomes Calgary West
Fort McMurray—Cold Lake becomes Fort McMurray—Lac La Biche—Cold Lake

British Columbia:
Burnaby South becomes Burnaby—Douglas
Langley—Aldergrove becomes Langley—West Abbotsford
Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon becomes Abbotsford—Mission—Fraser Canyon


While looking for C-402 I came across another riding name change but it's not at the same legislative stage.  C-377 would change Châteauguay—Lacolle to Châteauguay—Les Jardins-de-Napierville.

http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762 (http://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=9096762)

Most of these are terrible, but I'm glad to see the undoing of the dumb idea of listing the names within a riding name alphabetically in Quebec.

Those Nova Scotia names are AWFUL!

What is it with our government and calling every non-Halifax mainland riding _____ Nova?! Cape Breton-Canso, Sydney-Victoria and South Shore-St.Margaret's are all all accurate names for the places that people actually use in real life. Also, Cape Breton By The Sea sounds like a lame tourist slogan. Next redistribution I'm making a submission protesting these stupid, godawful names.

I’m not a fan of the inconsistencies in the name changes in Calgary and Mississauga. For Calgary, Signal Hill was never the best name, but it was a lot more descriptive than some of the other riding names the commission came up with, like Calgary Rocky Ridge or Calgary Skyview (both are named after small, relatively insignificant communities in the ridings). At least with Signal Hill, the name had a historical connection to the name of the prominent hill in the rough centre of the riding on which the community of Signal Hill is no built. It makes no sense to revert to a directional name only for Signal Hill but not for many of the other ridings in the city. Similarly for Mississauga, someone with local knowledge may be able to correct me on why it’s appropriate, but it strikes me as odd that now one of the six ridings there will omit the word Mississauga for no apparent reason.


Sounds like Kinder Morgan will go ahead with rumours the federal government will buy out the pipeline.

 https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/feds-to-announce-tuesday-morning-that-trans-mountain-moving-forward-1.3949175

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-05-29/canada-said-likely-to-buy-full-trans-mountain-pipeline-project-jhr1as22?__twitter_impression=true

I’m not a huge fan of putting tax dollars towards this, but if this is what it’s come to, then so be it at this point. We need this pipeline built.


Shameful. Government shouldn't waste out money in Alberta's vanity project.

Seriously, “Alberta’s vanity project”? That’s incredibly dismissive of the importance of this project. Alberta, and Canada, lose out on billions of tax dollars and economic activity in the absence of greater access to tidewater for our natural resources. And economically speaking, we need to have the ability to sell to more markets than only that of the US. Kinder Morgan has toiled, deservedly, for years going through the nevessary approval processes and doing their due diligence, but having gone through these steps, they deserve better than to have their project essentially held hostage by local and provincial governments in BC.

It’s attitudes like this which stoke feelings of western alienation here in Alberta. And I’m saying that as one who has always said rolled my eyes whenever someone has tried to claim that the eastern provinces don’t care about Alberta. I still don’t believe that, but having seen sentiments like this expressed by several of those from the other side of the country with no understanding of our dire need for more pipelines to tidewater, I have a much better understanding of where those feelings of western alienation come from.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on May 29, 2018, 04:57:48 AM
We also got evidence yesterday in the House than Kinder Morgan are tax dodgers. Over the last 3 years, they paid one million in taxes on an income of 360 millions, which is an effective tax rate of 0.3%.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on May 31, 2018, 01:31:06 PM
Nanos this week for the first time since September 2015 shows the Tories in the lead and at 36%, that is the highest the Tories have had in their tracking since 2012.  I think we can read a few things from this.

Trudeau: He can still win next year, but this should be a wake up call he doesn't have the election in the bag and so needs to actually achieve something noteworthy, not just rely on his opponents to screw up.

Scheer: Up until now he has largely pandered to his base as the thinking seemed to be it wouldn't be until 2023 they would be able to win, so the goal was to hold what they have and pick up a few marginal seats.  I think now that polls show they have a chance to win, they need to pivot towards the centre since if they run on a fairly right wing platform the lead will disappear once the campaign starts, but if they pivot towards the centre, they might have a shot although a Tory majority is still pretty unlikely unless they can swing Quebec there way.

Looking at regions I see the following:

Atlantic Canada: Liberals still well ahead, but not as massive as in 2015 so would probably win most of the seats, but not a clean sweep.  The Tories would probably retake a few of their traditional strongholds but still finish well behind in seats.  NDP may or may not win a seat or two here, depends on candidates.

Quebec: Liberals are up slightly from 2015, but well down from a year ago so still would make gains here, but cannot afford to fall any further and with expected losses in English Canada, making gains in Quebec is key.  Tories are also up a bit, but still probably only 20-25% range and seat wise that would make little difference.  Whether they get 15% or 25% in Quebec, makes little difference in seats.  They have to cross the 30% mark before they start flipping lots of seats.  BQ in crisis and NDP struggling so I suspect NDP seats will be more ones with strong incumbents.

Ontario: It appears Tories are clearly ahead here and would win slightly more than half of their seats while Liberals would lose a lot and NDP get more or less what they would now.  That being said I think depending on the outcome of the Ontario election, those are likely to shift a fair bit in the next six months.

Sask/Manitoba: Tories well ahead here followed by Liberals and NDP.  On the other hand seatwise might not change a lot as Tories tend to have massive blowouts in the rural sections so it will come down to Regina, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg which could still go either way.  Liberals and NDP are irrelevant in many seats, but still competitive in the three main cities plus two Northern ridings.

Alberta: Tories have a gigantic lead so would win most seats, but NDP and Liberals still might have chances in central Calgary and central Edmonton which have much more left leaning demographics than the rest of the province.

British Columbia: Liberals still competitive here, but Tories now in a tie.  NDP a bit back.

Off course polls will undoubtedly change between now and October 21, 2019, so this is just where they stand now, not where they will end up.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: EPG on May 31, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Presumably Ontario will like the federal Liberals again once they elect Doug Ford. It seems like the only remaining iron law of politics, that they split their votes.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on May 31, 2018, 03:12:09 PM
Presumably Ontario will like the federal Liberals again once they elect Doug Ford. It seems like the only remaining iron law of politics, that they split their votes.

True enough, but that assumes Ford will win.  While he has a slight edge on seats, I wouldn't count the NDP out.  If the NDP wins in Ontario, that is probably good news for the federal Tories.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on June 03, 2018, 03:07:24 PM
Martine Ouellet only get 32% of votes in her confidence vote, is removed as Bloc leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on June 03, 2018, 03:46:16 PM
Martine Ouellet only get 32% of votes in her confidence vote, is removed as Bloc leader.

Probably good news for the BQ, but damage might be done.  Somewhat bad news for the Tories as their recent uptick in Quebec support was mostly from BQ supporters.  Don't think many Liberal and especially NDP ones would go over to the Tories.  Although BQ a centre-left party, much of the progressive element left in 2011 for the NDP and some stayed NDP in 2015 while others went over to the Liberals.  Most who stayed with the BQ were more your older rural nationalist types thus why Conservatives had the best chance to pick them off.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 04, 2018, 06:43:04 AM
Me thinks the damage is done. Even if the Bloc gets a semi credible, non-absolutist leader, most of the places they could salvage a caucus from are held by Quebec Debout MP's.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 04, 2018, 06:51:21 AM
Or put another way:

If we do a quick and dirty adjustment by comparing the 2015 result to Grenier's average, the only Bloc won seats that have a hope of staying in non-federalist hands are Gill's and Plamondon's. Plamondon's is fine if he doesn't run (and he's 74 ) and he may not even retain it if the Bloc runs someone. That would leave Gill in Manicougan as an independent in all but name.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 12, 2018, 08:38:18 AM
Paul Dewar has terminal brain cancer. :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ON Progressive on June 12, 2018, 08:55:05 AM
Paul Dewar has terminal brain cancer. :(

:(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 12, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
Leger provincial poll has  (http://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2018/06/12/lavance-de-la-caq-se-retrouve-dans-la-majorite-des-regions)37/28/19/9. CAQ leads in almost all regions except, naturally, the West Island.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on June 12, 2018, 05:22:11 PM
Leger provincial poll has  (http://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2018/06/12/lavance-de-la-caq-se-retrouve-dans-la-majorite-des-regions)37/28/19/9. CAQ leads in almost all regions except, naturally, the West Island.

Some of those regional numbers make no sense, like mine in Abitibi (CAQ 37, PQ 25, QS 15, PLQ 15).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Mike88 on June 12, 2018, 05:51:41 PM
Nanos Research poll:

35.3% Lib (+1.2)
33.0% Con (-1.0)
22.0% NDP (+0.8 )
  4.8% Green (-0.6)
  4.1% BQ (-0.3)
  0.8% Others (-0.1)

No bounce, at all, for the Conservatives and a small increase for the NDP. Interesting.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on June 12, 2018, 06:32:04 PM
Nanos Research poll:

35.3% Lib (+1.2)
33.0% Con (-1.0)
22.0% NDP (+0.8 )
  4.8% Green (-0.6)
  4.1% BQ (-0.3)
  0.8% Others (-0.1)

No bounce, at all, for the Conservatives and a small increase for the NDP. Interesting.

Why the Conservatives should get a boost? They were proven wrong about NAFTA.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Mike88 on June 12, 2018, 06:45:16 PM
Nanos Research poll:

35.3% Lib (+1.2)
33.0% Con (-1.0)
22.0% NDP (+0.8 )
  4.8% Green (-0.6)
  4.1% BQ (-0.3)
  0.8% Others (-0.1)

No bounce, at all, for the Conservatives and a small increase for the NDP. Interesting.

Why the Conservatives should get a boost? They were proven wrong about NAFTA.
I though that the Ontario results would give a bounce to both the Conservatives and NDP. I know that the PC and the OLP aren't 100% aligned with the Federal Conservatives and Liberals, but still, Ontario is the biggest province in Canada.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 12, 2018, 07:16:34 PM
Andrew Scheer removes Maxime Bernier from Tory front bench
'I have removed Maxime Bernier from the Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet, effective immediately'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-removed-front-bench-1.4703609


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 12, 2018, 07:36:18 PM
Andrew Scheer removes Maxime Bernier from Tory front bench
'I have removed Maxime Bernier from the Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet, effective immediately'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-removed-front-bench-1.4703609

Probably a good idea. Twitter spats aren't accomplishing anything for the party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 12, 2018, 07:39:04 PM
Andrew Scheer removes Maxime Bernier from Tory front bench
'I have removed Maxime Bernier from the Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet, effective immediately'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-removed-front-bench-1.4703609

Probably a good idea. Twitter spats aren't accomplishing anything for the party.

I wonder if Bernier will run for the CAQ.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on June 12, 2018, 07:56:02 PM
Nanos Research poll:

35.3% Lib (+1.2)
33.0% Con (-1.0)
22.0% NDP (+0.8 )
  4.8% Green (-0.6)
  4.1% BQ (-0.3)
  0.8% Others (-0.1)

No bounce, at all, for the Conservatives and a small increase for the NDP. Interesting.

Why the Conservatives should get a boost? They were proven wrong about NAFTA.
I though that the Ontario results would give a bounce to both the Conservatives and NDP. I know that the PC and the OLP aren't 100% aligned with the Federal Conservatives and Liberals, but still, Ontario is the biggest province in Canada.

If anything, this should help Liberals, Ontarians loves having different parties in power federally and provincially.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on June 12, 2018, 08:09:47 PM
Andrew Scheer removes Maxime Bernier from Tory front bench
'I have removed Maxime Bernier from the Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet, effective immediately'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-removed-front-bench-1.4703609

Probably a good idea. Twitter spats aren't accomplishing anything for the party.

Official reason is than he continues to attack Trudeau over supply management, while he agreed a few months ago to stop breaking the party line on that issue. Cross-party unity is needed on that question, given Trump's attacks on it, from what I understand.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 13, 2018, 05:28:49 AM
 Delacourt is speculating that Trudeau will call a snap election this summer to get a new mandate to deal with the Trump/Trade issue. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/06/12/anyone-in-the-mood-for-a-summer-election/)

Really doubt he does it, but it's an interesting hypothetical.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 13, 2018, 08:14:38 PM
Patemkin openly says he's considering running for Peel Region chair, having relocated to Mississauga with his fiance.  (http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/patrick-brown-may-be-eyeing-a-return-to-politics-after-being-urged-to-run-for-chair-of-peel-region)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 15, 2018, 12:08:21 PM
Elmer MacKay (Peter's father and Mulroney era cabinet minister) has endorsed Cecil Clarke for ND Tory leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 20, 2018, 08:26:57 AM
Dippers pantsh**tting about this province again, renewed talk about deposing Singh and potential mass retirements. What's new is so far failed attempts by Grits to snatch some floor crossers. (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/530724/le-npd-entame-un-examen-de-conscience)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 20, 2018, 05:54:35 PM
Dippers pantsh**tting about this province again, renewed talk about deposing Singh and potential mass retirements. What's new is so far failed attempts by Grits to snatch some floor crossers. (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/530724/le-npd-entame-un-examen-de-conscience)

Well at least they're doing better than the post-Charest Tories.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on June 22, 2018, 07:53:36 PM
Hébert on how Trump's upended our political landscape (https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/06/22/in-ottawa-all-eyes-are-on-donald-trump.html), and while a snap election is possible it would probably be around NAFTA crunch time rather than this summer. Justin could call a fall one like Chrétien if that's what he wanted. Coyne doesn't think one will or should happen (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-a-snap-election-unlikely-but-with-the-obstacles-ahead-liberals-may-be-tempted), but Grits might regret it later if they don't. On a related note, Grit nominations start next week. (https://globalnews.ca/news/4292248/liberal-nominations-2019-election-race/)

Star on Singh's travails. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/06/22/ndp-leader-jagmeet-singhs-rough-ride.html)

Trump unhappy with our defence spending ahead of the NATO summit. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/06/22/trump-warns-trudeau-on-lack-of-defence-spending-ahead-of-nato-summit/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 22, 2018, 10:38:28 PM
I wish people would stop speculating about 'snap elections'. There will be no snap election. Justin isn't that stupid.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on June 27, 2018, 11:26:09 AM
Tom Parkin, who kind of operates as the NDP's official stenographer in the Toronto Sun, seems to think that  the BC and Ontario NDPs owe Singh big time and will yield big results.

 (http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/parkin-jagmeet-singh-helped-ontario-and-b-c-and-theyll-help-him-back[/url)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 27, 2018, 11:33:28 AM
Tom Parkin, who kind of operates as the NDP's official stenographer in the Toronto Sun, seems to think that  the BC and Ontario NDPs owe Singh big time and will yield big results.
 (http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/parkin-jagmeet-singh-helped-ontario-and-b-c-and-theyll-help-him-back[/url)

I know polls are 'lagging indicators' but I can't see where this media 'it will be all over for Jagmeet as soon as he Singhs' comes from. Three of the four latest polls have the NDP at around 20% which is at the high end of their traditional polling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_43rd_Canadian_federal_election


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on June 27, 2018, 11:44:00 AM
Can Singh at least hold the ROC seats and make some gains with an appeal to urban progressives, environmentalists and Sikhs?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 27, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
Can Singh at least hold the ROC seats and make some gains with an appeal to urban progressives, environmentalists and Sikhs?

Based on these polls I'd say it would have to be that way: if they're down in Quebec, they have to be up elsewhere.  I'm contrary to what others say about B.C though.  Keep in mind that, although the NDP knocked out several Conservatives, they kept their percentage of seats here the exact same: from 12/36 to 14/42.  The only seats I could really see the NDP gain here are Surrey Center and the Burnaby riding held by Liberal Terry Beech. If Jonathan Wilkinson in Burnaby-North Vancouver loses, I think it's more likely it would go to the Conservatives than to the NDP.

I don't know the electoral situation in any other parts of the country but If the NDP remains at 20% but declines in Quebec, I'd expect the NDP to gain in Toronto, South Western Ontario, Northern Ontario and Halifax.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on June 27, 2018, 07:04:00 PM
I am a bit worried; our internal polling shows some rather high disapprovals for Singh in Ontario, even from progressives. I guess this might be because he doesn't have a seat (which I had thought didn't matter) and has been somewhat underwhelming so far.  I wonder if the fact that the NDP is at 20% has more to do with progressive dissatisfaction with Justin.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on June 27, 2018, 07:38:45 PM
I am a bit worried; our internal polling shows some rather high disapprovals for Singh in Ontario, even from progressives. I guess this might be because he doesn't have a seat (which I had thought didn't matter) and has been somewhat underwhelming so far.  I wonder if the fact that the NDP is at 20% has more to do with progressive dissatisfaction with Justin.

Weird.  I guess the most positive take on this is that the opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on June 28, 2018, 08:20:17 AM
Can Singh at least hold the ROC seats and make some gains with an appeal to urban progressives, environmentalists and Sikhs?

Based on these polls I'd say it would have to be that way: if they're down in Quebec, they have to be up elsewhere.  I'm contrary to what others say about B.C though.  Keep in mind that, although the NDP knocked out several Conservatives, they kept their percentage of seats here the exact same: from 12/36 to 14/42.  The only seats I could really see the NDP gain here are Surrey Center and the Burnaby riding held by Liberal Terry Beech. If Jonathan Wilkinson in Burnaby-North Vancouver loses, I think it's more likely it would go to the Conservatives than to the NDP.

I don't know the electoral situation in any other parts of the country but If the NDP remains at 20% but declines in Quebec, I'd expect the NDP to gain in Toronto, South Western Ontario, Northern Ontario and Halifax.

The NDP ought to win Halifax next time as that seat is a fantastic fit for them. It's like a microcosm of the NDP coalition and I was really surprised the Liberals won it last time. Outside of that seat any success they have in Atlantic Canada will be heavily candidate based IMO.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 03, 2018, 11:24:06 AM
Of the few predictions I get right, this had to be one. Patemkin is running for Peel Region chair. (https://twitter.com/patrickbrownont/status/1014179000153866240)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 04, 2018, 05:38:09 PM
Scheer rejected requests from certain MPs to expel Bernier from caucus, and the MP who started it whined to CP. (https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/07/04/conservative-leader-rejected-caucus-calls-to-kick-maxime-bernier-from-caucus-3/#.Wz1GntJKiUn)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 04, 2018, 05:51:01 PM
Scheer rejected requests from certain MPs to expel Bernier from caucus, and the MP who started it whined to CP. (https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/07/04/conservative-leader-rejected-caucus-calls-to-kick-maxime-bernier-from-caucus-3/#.Wz1GntJKiUn)

Thoughts on who it was?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 04, 2018, 06:52:18 PM
The media talking heads say the NDP is in serious trouble and yet they're actually reaching post election highs (20% or so.)  Why is the NDP actually doing so well?  Post Ontario provincial election confusion or is there something more permanent to it?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on July 05, 2018, 12:12:23 AM
The media talking heads say the NDP is in serious trouble and yet they're actually reaching post election highs (20% or so.)  Why is the NDP actually doing so well?  Post Ontario provincial election confusion or is there something more permanent to it?

Possible post election bounce, I suspect things will normalize over time as asides from Ontario no bounce in other provinces.  Also Wynne's unpopularity is probably a big reason many polls showed the Tories over 40% in Ontario, but I suspect with her now gone, the Tories will fall back into the 30s.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 05, 2018, 02:15:25 AM
The media talking heads say the NDP is in serious trouble and yet they're actually reaching post election highs (20% or so.)  Why is the NDP actually doing so well?  Post Ontario provincial election confusion or is there something more permanent to it?

Possible post election bounce, I suspect things will normalize over time as asides from Ontario no bounce in other provinces.  Also Wynne's unpopularity is probably a big reason many polls showed the Tories over 40% in Ontario, but I suspect with her now gone, the Tories will fall back into the 30s.

Thanks for the reply.

The only poll I saw with Ontario numbers had the Federal NDP at 26% in Ontario.  How does this compare with a couple months ago?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 05, 2018, 02:51:31 PM
Justin responds to groping questions (https://twitter.com/VassyKapelos/status/1014950055462232064), he didn't and doesn't feel he acted inappropriately but understands that the woman felt differently, and men and women experience such situations differently. He apologized in the moment.

Christopherson won't seek re-election next year.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 08, 2018, 05:30:16 PM
Bev Shipley is retiring. (https://twitter.com/DanAlbas/status/1016085948608573440)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 08, 2018, 10:52:11 PM
Bev Shipley is retiring. (https://twitter.com/DanAlbas/status/1016085948608573440)

Since that tweet is now down:
http://www.wallaceburgcourierpress.com/2018/07/08/bev-shipley-wont-be-running-in-next-federal-election

Also, "Bev Shipley is a man baby."


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 09, 2018, 07:03:42 AM
Bev Shipley is retiring. (https://twitter.com/DanAlbas/status/1016085948608573440)

Should be a boring by-election.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 09, 2018, 08:22:28 AM
I should've said retiring next year. Anyway, Laverdiere is also retiring next year. (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/531978/npd)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 09, 2018, 08:24:34 AM
I should've said retiring next year. Anyway, Laverdiere is also retiring next year. (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/531978/npd)

Well, since Shipley would have remained in his seat, that would have made for a very interesting by-election.  :)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 12, 2018, 04:10:46 PM
Don Martin on MPs leaving politics next year: (https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-martin-blog/don-martin-mps-mulling-their-political-best-before-dates-1.4010955#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=qdU6bhh) MacAulay and Plamondon definitely, possibly Nicholson. Lisa Raitt denied on Twitter she's leaving. Bennett might leave sooner to take a diplomatic appointment.

Ivison lists 3 ParlSecs to watch in next week's shuffle: Mendocino, Miller, Wilkinson. (https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/john-ivison-the-liberals-plan-to-tell-voters-its-andrew-scheer-whos-just-not-ready?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1531162227)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 22, 2018, 01:15:45 AM
Like everybody else here, I don't make much out of a single poll, but I found the latest Ipsos poll interesting for a couple reasons

Liberal: 39%
Conservative: 32%
NDP: 21%

First, these results are virtually identical to the 2015 election results. Second, the NDP is still at 21% even though it has lost its Ontario bounce as a result of the provincial election (back at 20%.)

The NDP is only at 18% in Quebec in this poll, but, instead the NDP retains this relatively high poll standing on the basis of British Columbia, where, according to this poll, they lead at 35%.

Of course, the overall survey was of 1,000 people so, the polling from B.C would be maybe 150, so, that gets back to the first point of not making too much of a single poll, but if the NDP received 35% of the vote in B.C it would be nearly unprecedented.  Only in the 1988 free trade election did the NDP come in first and get a higher share of the vote: 37%.  In the 2011 'Orange Crush' election, the NDP only received 32% of the vote in B.C.    


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 22, 2018, 02:26:50 PM
Well if that's true, I guess Jagmett has to run in Burnaby then.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on July 23, 2018, 04:30:22 PM
Why isn't some back bench party hack giving up his seat to the seat less party leader? Having no seat in parliament is pretty embarrassing.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 23, 2018, 04:49:38 PM
Why isn't some back bench party hack giving up his seat to the seat less party leader? Having no seat in parliament is pretty embarrassing.

Because it's risky and the NDP needs all the talent they have in the house and it's not really that embarassing. Jack Layton didn't have a seat when he became leader.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on July 27, 2018, 12:54:40 AM
Why isn't some back bench party hack giving up his seat to the seat less party leader? Having no seat in parliament is pretty embarrassing.

Because it's risky and the NDP needs all the talent they have in the house and it's not really that embarassing. Jack Layton didn't have a seat when he became leader.

Depends what seat as there are some pretty safe ones.  I think if David Christophson retired early, Singh could run there as I cannot see Hamilton Centre going anything but NDP.  Also with an election only a little over a year away, Jenny Kwan could step aside in Vancouver East (probably the safest NDP seat in the country) and then run again in 2019, that is what Scott Brison did when he stepped aside for Joe Clark, but made a comeback in 2000 and is still an MP to this day albeit in a different party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on July 27, 2018, 08:13:21 AM
Why isn't some back bench party hack giving up his seat to the seat less party leader? Having no seat in parliament is pretty embarrassing.

Because it's risky and the NDP needs all the talent they have in the house and it's not really that embarassing. Jack Layton didn't have a seat when he became leader.

I'm not sure how.many people care outside of the media and political junkies. Also, for better or worse, the NDP is going to get less crap for this than a Tory or Liberal would. It's a very high risk, low reward proposition for the NDP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 27, 2018, 09:21:07 AM
So, looks like Doug Ford is becoming a dictator?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ON Progressive on July 27, 2018, 10:10:46 AM
So, looks like Doug Ford is becoming a dictator?

This kind of thing is why we really need to loosen provincial power over municipalities. Provinces shouldn't be so powerful that they can literally cancel elections and nuke entire city councils.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: President Punxsutawney Phil on July 27, 2018, 10:11:51 AM
So, looks like Doug Ford is becoming a dictator?
you mean Dougtator. :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on July 27, 2018, 10:24:48 AM
So, looks like Doug Ford is becoming a dictator?

It will be interesting what he does now with John Tory's response to put the issue to a referendum.  Tough to see say no to taking it to the people.  It will be interesting what his response is to this, but I think John Tory might have cornered him well on this one.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 27, 2018, 11:24:58 AM
John Tory isn't going to do anything. He got what he wanted; nominations for mayor still close today, but for every other race, they'll be extended. So any would-be challenger for mayor who doesn't want to run against a colleague in any of these new mega-wards will not be able to do so.

Hopefully someone challenges this in the court. 25 seats is not effective representation (this has already been established in court, whether you agree with it or not).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on July 27, 2018, 01:19:31 PM
But wouldn't Ford look bad if he ignored the referendum results? I think in many ways this could make things interesting. Also will be interesting to see what his 11 MPP's from Toronto say since if they get enough pushback from constituents it could get interesting. I do think though using federal/provincial boundaries makes sense but if 25 is too small then 50 so two per riding which is essentially what it was before as it used to be 22 ridings and 44 wards and boundaries by and large corresponded with ridings ones.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: ON Progressive on July 27, 2018, 01:27:40 PM
Wouldn't 25 seats literally mean a city council member has a larger average constituency than an MPP does? That sounds absurd.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 27, 2018, 05:09:54 PM
Wouldn't 25 seats literally mean a city council member has a larger average constituency than an MPP does? That sounds absurd.

Hmm, that is technically true. We have some ridings covering just 20k people up north, brining the average down.

Bizarrely this wouldn't be as bad as some cities in western Canada that have more provincial ridings than wards.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on July 27, 2018, 05:20:00 PM
Wouldn't 25 seats literally mean a city council member has a larger average constituency than an MPP does? That sounds absurd.

Hmm, that is technically true. We have some ridings covering just 20k people up north, brining the average down.

Bizarrely this wouldn't be as bad as some cities in western Canada that have more provincial ridings than wards.

This is definitely true of Vancouver and Calgary. Mind you in Vancouver it has always been 10 councillors for as long as I've been around so it probably was at one time less. They also up until the 1991 election used to have double member provincial ridings until the courts stopped this. This was the Socreds gerrymandering by putting a strong Socred riding with a narrow NDP to get two Socreds elected.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 30, 2018, 07:47:44 AM
Mainstreet-AB: (https://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/the-ucp-have-wide-lead-over-the-ndp/) 52/33. Tories even lead in Edmonton.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on July 30, 2018, 12:13:59 PM
Mainstreet-AB: (https://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/the-ucp-have-wide-lead-over-the-ndp/) 52/33. Tories even lead in Edmonton.

It looks like they are do their quarterly poll for all provinces.  Also did BC today, while New Brunswick and Ontario earlier.  Federally Liberals have a slight lead, but are ahead in all areas except the Prairies.  New Brunswick shows a tie although if that pans out probably means a PC majority as PC vote is more efficient since NB Liberals tend to run up the margins in the Francophone areas while PCs win by smaller margins in the Anglophone areas.  Ontario shows the PCs well ahead, but just had an election so largely irrelevant as it is almost 4 years until they go to the polls.  BC shows NDP and BC Liberals tied but both barely at a third.  If you look at the left vs. right vote, also pretty close to tied too (NDP + Greens on left, while BC Liberals + BC Conservatives on right).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on July 31, 2018, 11:41:52 AM
Mainstreet-AB: (https://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/the-ucp-have-wide-lead-over-the-ndp/) 52/33. Tories even lead in Edmonton.

It looks like they are do their quarterly poll for all provinces.  Also did BC today, while New Brunswick and Ontario earlier.  Federally Liberals have a slight lead, but are ahead in all areas except the Prairies.  New Brunswick shows a tie although if that pans out probably means a PC majority as PC vote is more efficient since NB Liberals tend to run up the margins in the Francophone areas while PCs win by smaller margins in the Anglophone areas.  Ontario shows the PCs well ahead, but just had an election so largely irrelevant as it is almost 4 years until they go to the polls.  BC shows NDP and BC Liberals tied but both barely at a third.  If you look at the left vs. right vote, also pretty close to tied too (NDP + Greens on left, while BC Liberals + BC Conservatives on right).

The New Brunswick poll was a bit odd in that I believe it showed pretty even support for both the P.Cs and the Liberals throughout the entire province. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on July 31, 2018, 11:57:12 AM
Mainstreet-AB: (https://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/the-ucp-have-wide-lead-over-the-ndp/) 52/33. Tories even lead in Edmonton.

It looks like they are do their quarterly poll for all provinces.  Also did BC today, while New Brunswick and Ontario earlier.  Federally Liberals have a slight lead, but are ahead in all areas except the Prairies.  New Brunswick shows a tie although if that pans out probably means a PC majority as PC vote is more efficient since NB Liberals tend to run up the margins in the Francophone areas while PCs win by smaller margins in the Anglophone areas.  Ontario shows the PCs well ahead, but just had an election so largely irrelevant as it is almost 4 years until they go to the polls.  BC shows NDP and BC Liberals tied but both barely at a third.  If you look at the left vs. right vote, also pretty close to tied too (NDP + Greens on left, while BC Liberals + BC Conservatives on right).

The New Brunswick poll was a bit odd in that I believe it showed pretty even support for both the P.Cs and the Liberals throughout the entire province. 

It did Fredericton, Moncton, and everywhere else when the real divide is along linguistic lines.  Moncton is a bilingual city so probably close to provincewide averages while Fredericton is the capital so more civil servants plus the one Green MLA comes from there so skew things a bit.  I suspect within the rest of NB, you would see a big Liberal lead amongst Francophones while a somewhat more modest PC lead amongst Anglophones.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 01, 2018, 10:33:09 AM
The fringe Atlantica Party in Nova Scotia is in trouble for violating election spending laws :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Tintrlvr on August 02, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
The fringe Atlantica Party in Nova Scotia is in trouble for violating election spending laws :P

How did they get enough money to violate election spending laws?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 02, 2018, 02:29:51 PM
The fringe Atlantica Party in Nova Scotia is in trouble for violating election spending laws :P

How did they get enough money to violate election spending laws?

I phrased that poorly. Their leader donated way more than limits allow under the guise of "loans"


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 05, 2018, 05:07:16 PM
Breaking: Saudis have PNG'd our ambassador, recalled theirs and frozen new trade & investment over our Badawi complaints. (https://twitter.com/fxmacro/status/1026227575591452674)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on August 05, 2018, 09:39:28 PM
Good thing the Harper government rushed through the sale of a controlling stake of CWB to the Saudi state, even when a consortium of Canadian farmers were raising money to propose a higher offer.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on August 08, 2018, 03:17:26 PM
So Jagmeet Singh says he's committed to moving to Burnaby.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 09, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
Wouldn't 25 seats literally mean a city council member has a larger average constituency than an MPP does? That sounds absurd.

Hmm, that is technically true. We have some ridings covering just 20k people up north, brining the average down.

Bizarrely this wouldn't be as bad as some cities in western Canada that have more provincial ridings than wards.

Halifax is like that too. 16 councilors, 21 MLA's.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on August 09, 2018, 11:52:02 AM
So Jagmeet Singh says he's committed to moving to Burnaby.

Too little too late, I think. The NDP has greatly shrunk in stature during his tenure and I’m honestly not sure how he recovers. Devastating if he loses this byelection. I don’t think he’d make it to the 2019 election. And if he does, with or without his own seat, the NDP will not do well. His youthfulness and seemingly brash confidence makes him look small (IMO). Progressives will still rally around Trudeau.

But there’s my baseless speculation for the day. It’s a shame. Mulcair, packaged correctly, seems like the perfect counterweight to JT.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 09, 2018, 09:42:44 PM
The NDP is still polling 15-20%, so it's just a reversion to the mean really. We're not in Audrey McLaughlin territory, and not even Alexa McDonough territory either.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 10, 2018, 06:41:47 AM
The NDP is still polling 15-20%, so it's just a reversion to the mean really. We're not in Audrey McLaughlin territory, and not even Alexa McDonough territory either.

Hell, they're in Jack Layton (04-10) territory, which wasn't exactly considered terrible at the time.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 10, 2018, 08:57:25 AM
The NDP is still polling 15-20%, so it's just a reversion to the mean really. We're not in Audrey McLaughlin territory, and not even Alexa McDonough territory either.

Hell, they're in Jack Layton (04-10) territory, which wasn't exactly considered terrible at the time.

The pundit class has short memories.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on August 10, 2018, 09:00:05 AM
Andrew Scheer is arguably doing much worse than Jagmeet Singh. However, the vast majority of the Canadian punditocracy is conservative so that view hardly ever gets expressed.

The Conservatives are doing better in the polls than the result they received during the 2015 election, while the NDP is, at best, only doing as well (not a huge amount of difference either way) however I think the Conservatives are doing so in a way that could rebound on them negatively. They are clearly playing up fears over the irregular crossings and I think Scheer leaves himself open to charges that he is a dishonest fear monger.  Impossible to know how these things will work out, but this isn't the first time that Scheer has gone for short term gain at the possible expense of his longer term prospects.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 10, 2018, 08:28:22 PM
Notley trashes Singh on the record as a thoughtless elitist who doesn't care about working people. (https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/graham-thomson-rachel-notley-fed-up-with-federal-ndp-leader-singhs-anti-pipeline-elitist-views#pq=yKvHhb)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 11, 2018, 06:24:58 AM
Notley trashes Singh on the record as a thoughtless elitist who doesn't care about working people. (https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/graham-thomson-rachel-notley-fed-up-with-federal-ndp-leader-singhs-anti-pipeline-elitist-views#pq=yKvHhb)

Why don't the Liberals ever infight like this anymore? :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on August 11, 2018, 08:13:47 AM
Notley trashes Singh on the record as a thoughtless elitist who doesn't care about working people. (https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/graham-thomson-rachel-notley-fed-up-with-federal-ndp-leader-singhs-anti-pipeline-elitist-views#pq=yKvHhb)

Why don't the Liberals ever infight like this anymore? :(

The New Brunswick Liberal government opposes the carbon tax.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on August 11, 2018, 12:09:17 PM
Andrew Scheer is arguably doing much worse than Jagmeet Singh. However, the vast majority of the Canadian punditocracy is conservative so that view hardly ever gets expressed.

The Conservatives are doing better in the polls than the result they received during the 2015 election, while the NDP is, at best, only doing as well (not a huge amount of difference either way) however I think the Conservatives are doing so in a way that could rebound on them negatively. They are clearly playing up fears over the irregular crossings and I think Scheer leaves himself open to charges that he is a dishonest fear monger.  Impossible to know how these things will work out, but this isn't the first time that Scheer has gone for short term gain at the possible expense of his longer term prospects.

I think Scheer will have difficulty catching on in the GTA and Greater Vancouver.  Running up the margins in the Prairies and rural Ontario won't translate into many seats.

The NDP will almost certainly lose ground in Quebec, but there may be an opening for Singh among progressives in Ontario and BC as well as in the Sikh community.   But he's not running "for PM."


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 12, 2018, 01:50:21 PM
Andrew Scheer is arguably doing much worse than Jagmeet Singh. However, the vast majority of the Canadian punditocracy is conservative so that view hardly ever gets expressed.

The Conservatives are doing better in the polls than the result they received during the 2015 election, while the NDP is, at best, only doing as well (not a huge amount of difference either way) however I think the Conservatives are doing so in a way that could rebound on them negatively. They are clearly playing up fears over the irregular crossings and I think Scheer leaves himself open to charges that he is a dishonest fear monger.  Impossible to know how these things will work out, but this isn't the first time that Scheer has gone for short term gain at the possible expense of his longer term prospects.

I think Scheer will have difficulty catching on in the GTA and Greater Vancouver.  Running up the margins in the Prairies and rural Ontario won't translate into many seats.

The NDP will almost certainly lose ground in Quebec, but there may be an opening for Singh among progressives in Ontario and BC as well as in the Sikh community.   But he's not running "for PM."

John Ibbitson had an interesting article on the irregular crossers and actually it could go either way.  Polls clearly show most Canadians want stronger action on it and while generous with immigration, people tend to not like those coming in illegally thus risk for Liberals, particularly in Quebec which tends to be more nationalistic.  On the other hand if the Tories come across as xenophobic could hurt them big time especially in the GTA and Lower Mainland.  As for the GTA, I could still see them making big gains in the 905 belt, after all Harper got over 40% in most 905 ridings in 2015 so it will come down to splits.  If NDP does poorly then 905 stays red, but NDP gains then the splits are enough to allow the Tories to flip most of those ridings they got over 40%.  In the Lower Mainland suburbs, again also comes down to splits.  The Tories were rock bottom so expect them to improve a bit in 2019, but obviously well short of where they were in 2011.  If you have a perfect three way split like you did in 2004, they could win a whole wack of seats with only 1/3 of the vote, but if not I suspect they won't win many west of Langley.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on August 12, 2018, 02:01:48 PM
Andrew Scheer is arguably doing much worse than Jagmeet Singh. However, the vast majority of the Canadian punditocracy is conservative so that view hardly ever gets expressed.

The Conservatives are doing better in the polls than the result they received during the 2015 election, while the NDP is, at best, only doing as well (not a huge amount of difference either way) however I think the Conservatives are doing so in a way that could rebound on them negatively. They are clearly playing up fears over the irregular crossings and I think Scheer leaves himself open to charges that he is a dishonest fear monger.  Impossible to know how these things will work out, but this isn't the first time that Scheer has gone for short term gain at the possible expense of his longer term prospects.

I think Scheer will have difficulty catching on in the GTA and Greater Vancouver.  Running up the margins in the Prairies and rural Ontario won't translate into many seats.

The NDP will almost certainly lose ground in Quebec, but there may be an opening for Singh among progressives in Ontario and BC as well as in the Sikh community.   But he's not running "for PM."

John Ibbitson had an interesting article on the irregular crossers and actually it could go either way.  Polls clearly show most Canadians want stronger action on it and while generous with immigration, people tend to not like those coming in illegally thus risk for Liberals, particularly in Quebec which tends to be more nationalistic.  On the other hand if the Tories come across as xenophobic could hurt them big time especially in the GTA and Lower Mainland.  As for the GTA, I could still see them making big gains in the 905 belt, after all Harper got over 40% in most 905 ridings in 2015 so it will come down to splits.  If NDP does poorly then 905 stays red, but NDP gains then the splits are enough to allow the Tories to flip most of those ridings they got over 40%.  In the Lower Mainland suburbs, again also comes down to splits.  The Tories were rock bottom so expect them to improve a bit in 2019, but obviously well short of where they were in 2011.  If you have a perfect three way split like you did in 2004, they could win a whole wack of seats with only 1/3 of the vote, but if not I suspect they won't win many west of Langley.

I agree that 30% is the Conservative base but I don't agree completely that they hit rock bottom. They had 140 or so incumbents running again (to be sure some of the riding boundaries had changed, but they mainly got smaller.) This time they'll have about 90.  It's the Liberals this time who will benefit from any 'incumbent vote.'

This is a factor that has clearly NOT been taken into account in the discussion to this point.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 12, 2018, 02:07:40 PM
Andrew Scheer is arguably doing much worse than Jagmeet Singh. However, the vast majority of the Canadian punditocracy is conservative so that view hardly ever gets expressed.

The Conservatives are doing better in the polls than the result they received during the 2015 election, while the NDP is, at best, only doing as well (not a huge amount of difference either way) however I think the Conservatives are doing so in a way that could rebound on them negatively. They are clearly playing up fears over the irregular crossings and I think Scheer leaves himself open to charges that he is a dishonest fear monger.  Impossible to know how these things will work out, but this isn't the first time that Scheer has gone for short term gain at the possible expense of his longer term prospects.

I think Scheer will have difficulty catching on in the GTA and Greater Vancouver.  Running up the margins in the Prairies and rural Ontario won't translate into many seats.

The NDP will almost certainly lose ground in Quebec, but there may be an opening for Singh among progressives in Ontario and BC as well as in the Sikh community.   But he's not running "for PM."

John Ibbitson had an interesting article on the irregular crossers and actually it could go either way.  Polls clearly show most Canadians want stronger action on it and while generous with immigration, people tend to not like those coming in illegally thus risk for Liberals, particularly in Quebec which tends to be more nationalistic.  On the other hand if the Tories come across as xenophobic could hurt them big time especially in the GTA and Lower Mainland.  As for the GTA, I could still see them making big gains in the 905 belt, after all Harper got over 40% in most 905 ridings in 2015 so it will come down to splits.  If NDP does poorly then 905 stays red, but NDP gains then the splits are enough to allow the Tories to flip most of those ridings they got over 40%.  In the Lower Mainland suburbs, again also comes down to splits.  The Tories were rock bottom so expect them to improve a bit in 2019, but obviously well short of where they were in 2011.  If you have a perfect three way split like you did in 2004, they could win a whole wack of seats with only 1/3 of the vote, but if not I suspect they won't win many west of Langley.

I agree that 30% is the Conservative base but I don't agree completely that they hit rock bottom. They had 140 or so incumbents running again (to be sure some of the riding boundaries had changed, but they mainly got smaller.) This time they'll have about 90.  It's the Liberals this time who will benefit from any 'incumbent vote.'

This is a factor that has clearly been taken into account in the discussion to this point.

True enough, although amongst the base I sense a strong hatred of Trudeau.  Not enough to defeat him, but enough to make it tough for Liberals make inroads.  Also many Blue Liberals are not overly happy with Trudeau either and with Scheer being unknown a lot will depend on how disciplined a campaign he runs.  If he panders too much to his base they will swing back, but if he runs a disciplined one like Harper did in 2006, I could see him picking up many of those.  Not enough to actually win the election, far from it.  Although Nanos which is the most accurate pollster has Liberals only 0.3 ahead so while a lot can happen between now a next year, I would probably want the Liberals to have a bigger lead before safely concluding they are going to win.  That being said don't think Scheer will become PM in 2019 since I cannot see a path to 170 for the Tories and if they fail to win a majority, NDP will prop up the Liberals much like Greens are for BC NDP.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on August 12, 2018, 02:14:57 PM
Illegal border crossing seems a good issue for Scheer. Angus Reid poll shows he is more trusted than Trudeau on this.
Quote
When asked which major party leader they trusted most to handle the border crossings, 48 per cent chose Scheer — including 30 per cent of people who voted for the Liberals in 2015.

Trudeau followed with 35 per cent, while NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh came in third with 16 per cent.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/angus-reid-border-poll-1.4771961 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/angus-reid-border-poll-1.4771961)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on August 12, 2018, 02:21:15 PM
Andrew Scheer is arguably doing much worse than Jagmeet Singh. However, the vast majority of the Canadian punditocracy is conservative so that view hardly ever gets expressed.

The Conservatives are doing better in the polls than the result they received during the 2015 election, while the NDP is, at best, only doing as well (not a huge amount of difference either way) however I think the Conservatives are doing so in a way that could rebound on them negatively. They are clearly playing up fears over the irregular crossings and I think Scheer leaves himself open to charges that he is a dishonest fear monger.  Impossible to know how these things will work out, but this isn't the first time that Scheer has gone for short term gain at the possible expense of his longer term prospects.

I think Scheer will have difficulty catching on in the GTA and Greater Vancouver.  Running up the margins in the Prairies and rural Ontario won't translate into many seats.

The NDP will almost certainly lose ground in Quebec, but there may be an opening for Singh among progressives in Ontario and BC as well as in the Sikh community.   But he's not running "for PM."

John Ibbitson had an interesting article on the irregular crossers and actually it could go either way.  Polls clearly show most Canadians want stronger action on it and while generous with immigration, people tend to not like those coming in illegally thus risk for Liberals, particularly in Quebec which tends to be more nationalistic.  On the other hand if the Tories come across as xenophobic could hurt them big time especially in the GTA and Lower Mainland.  As for the GTA, I could still see them making big gains in the 905 belt, after all Harper got over 40% in most 905 ridings in 2015 so it will come down to splits.  If NDP does poorly then 905 stays red, but NDP gains then the splits are enough to allow the Tories to flip most of those ridings they got over 40%.  In the Lower Mainland suburbs, again also comes down to splits.  The Tories were rock bottom so expect them to improve a bit in 2019, but obviously well short of where they were in 2011.  If you have a perfect three way split like you did in 2004, they could win a whole wack of seats with only 1/3 of the vote, but if not I suspect they won't win many west of Langley.

I agree that 30% is the Conservative base but I don't agree completely that they hit rock bottom. They had 140 or so incumbents running again (to be sure some of the riding boundaries had changed, but they mainly got smaller.) This time they'll have about 90.  It's the Liberals this time who will benefit from any 'incumbent vote.'

This is a factor that has clearly NOT been taken into account in the discussion to this point.

True enough, although amongst the base I sense a strong hatred of Trudeau.  Not enough to defeat him, but enough to make it tough for Liberals make inroads.  Also many Blue Liberals are not overly happy with Trudeau either and with Scheer being unknown a lot will depend on how disciplined a campaign he runs.  If he panders too much to his base they will swing back, but if he runs a disciplined one like Harper did in 2006, I could see him picking up many of those.  Not enough to actually win the election, far from it.  Although Nanos which is the most accurate pollster has Liberals only 0.3 ahead so while a lot can happen between now a next year, I would probably want the Liberals to have a bigger lead before safely concluding they are going to win.  That being said don't think Scheer will become PM in 2019 since I cannot see a path to 170 for the Tories and if they fail to win a majority, NDP will prop up the Liberals much like Greens are for BC NDP.

I agree with the characterization from Ibbitson, but the way I'd put it is the Conservatives seem to be playing for short term political gains at the possible expense at the ballot box.  Not only in terms of xenophobia but also in terms of being characterized as a fear-monger (on irregular border crossings, on marijuana legalization, on deficit spending on the one hand and then calling for massive tax cuts to match Trump and the U.S lest the Canadian economy collapse.)  Except to the hard core conservatives they can hardly counter that being concerned about and wanting to address global warming is fear mongering any more.

The issue here though is that Scheer seems to be incapable of learning from his mistakes. When he was first elected as leader I believe the first issue he addressed was 'free speech' on university campuses and not surprisingly after a few months he had to walk it back by essentially saying 'when I meant free speech for everybody, I didn't literally mean 'everybody''

These Conservatives seem to be increasingly addicted to scoring the immediate political points as they are increasingly right wing (reactionary) populist.  Certainly it's my bias that I want and hope that it ends up hurting them bigly, but that it will is, I think, much greater than just a 'non zero possibility.'


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on August 12, 2018, 03:04:47 PM
I don't see Scheer winning but the Tories at least avoided catastrophe by not going with Bernier.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 12, 2018, 07:13:49 PM
I don't see Scheer winning but the Tories at least avoided catastrophe by not going with Bernier.

I think Leitch, Trost, and Lemieux would have been even more catastrophic.  Michael Chong on paper seemed like the one who would be the toughest challenge, but probably much like Patrick Brown, the party would have tried to find a way to dump him ahead of time.  Lisa Raitt and Erin O'Toole probably would have done better than Scheer but not sure if it would be enough to win.  I think on the carbon tax issue, the Tories will only change after the lose an election over it and even then it might take a few before they decide it is a vote losing issue.  I actually don't think it has as big an impact either way.  I think the PCs in Ontario would have won either way and the carbon tax had very little impact either way.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 12, 2018, 08:06:14 PM
Don't think Bernier would've been a disaster. Sure he wouldn't have won but you could say the same for any other major contender, since JT's name isn't Joe Clark and there won't be a depression next year.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 12, 2018, 08:09:18 PM
Don't think Bernier would've been a disaster. Sure he wouldn't have won but you could say the same for any other major contender, since JT's name isn't Joe Clark and there won't be a depression next year.

Eh, Bernier doesn't seem to play well with others and is a little too attached to his libertarianism.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 12, 2018, 08:14:43 PM
I still don't see how that means less than 90-odd seats, since all those hard nationalist votes have to go somewhere here next year in a 2-party race. Maybe some close ON suburban seats from last time, taking only Fundy Royal and NB Southwest out East.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 12, 2018, 08:49:18 PM
Illegal border crossing seems a good issue for Scheer. Angus Reid poll shows he is more trusted than Trudeau on this.
Quote
When asked which major party leader they trusted most to handle the border crossings, 48 per cent chose Scheer — including 30 per cent of people who voted for the Liberals in 2015.

Trudeau followed with 35 per cent, while NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh came in third with 16 per cent.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/angus-reid-border-poll-1.4771961 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/angus-reid-border-poll-1.4771961)

The word is irregular.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 12, 2018, 11:17:55 PM
Illegal border crossing seems a good issue for Scheer. Angus Reid poll shows he is more trusted than Trudeau on this.
Quote
When asked which major party leader they trusted most to handle the border crossings, 48 per cent chose Scheer — including 30 per cent of people who voted for the Liberals in 2015.

Trudeau followed with 35 per cent, while NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh came in third with 16 per cent.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/angus-reid-border-poll-1.4771961 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/angus-reid-border-poll-1.4771961)

The word is irregular.

Technically both are correct as signs at the border do read illegal so entering Canada at any point other than a point of entry is illegal, however if one claims asylum they must be given a full hearing and how they entered Canada is not factored in when making the final decision.  Essentially its like if your life was in danger and you had to trespass to seek help, you are still trespassing but due to the circumstances you would not be penalized for it.  I am not sure the legal term but when two laws conflict and one supercedes it.  Nonetheless anyone who crosses illegally without declaring asylum is entering illegally but if they declare asylum how they entered is irrelevant.  As for terminology it is perhaps better to say irregular than illegal, but making a big stink about it is not exactly an issue that is going to get a lot of support outside your downtown progressives who would never vote Conservative anyways. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 13, 2018, 05:42:02 PM
Maxime Bernier last night goes on twitter tirade on diversity that I think many would say is bigoted.  While tough to say the exact impact as no election coming up, probably a good thing for the party he was not chosen as leader.  Kick him out and that could divide the party, but let him stay on and he might say or tweet something stupid during the election campaign which sinks the party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 13, 2018, 06:18:13 PM
I still don't see how that means less than 90-odd seats, since all those hard nationalist votes have to go somewhere here next year in a 2-party race. Maybe some close ON suburban seats from last time, taking only Fundy Royal and NB Southwest out East.

Maxime Bernier last night goes on twitter tirade on diversity that I think many would say is bigoted.  While tough to say the exact impact as no election coming up, probably a good thing for the party he was not chosen as leader.  Kick him out and that could divide the party, but let him stay on and he might say or tweet something stupid during the election campaign which sinks the party.

See this is what I mean. Dude has repeatedly shown he has no discipline. He'd have a much, much higher downside risk in a campaign than Scheer.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on August 13, 2018, 11:12:22 PM
I still don't see how that means less than 90-odd seats, since all those hard nationalist votes have to go somewhere here next year in a 2-party race. Maybe some close ON suburban seats from last time, taking only Fundy Royal and NB Southwest out East.

Maxime Bernier last night goes on twitter tirade on diversity that I think many would say is bigoted.  While tough to say the exact impact as no election coming up, probably a good thing for the party he was not chosen as leader.  Kick him out and that could divide the party, but let him stay on and he might say or tweet something stupid during the election campaign which sinks the party.

See this is what I mean. Dude has repeatedly shown he has no discipline. He'd have a much, much higher downside risk in a campaign than Scheer.

Frank Graves of Ekos says that since the June Ontario election, the Federal Liberals have surged in Ontario from a 10 point deficit to a 10 point lead. And, that was before the Twitter feud with the Saudis, which will surely boost them further.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 14, 2018, 06:01:50 PM
With the Liberals clearly leaning in the progressive direction and conservatives pandering more to their base, does anyone think there are enough Blue Liberals/Red Tories out there that a party that appealed to them could gain traction or are we in a more polarized era where such demographic is not as big as it once was.  Also will be interesting to see which party or how they split next election.  I tend to assume around 50-60% of Canadians sit left of centre, 30% are part of the conservative base while 10-15% make up those Blue Liberals/Red Tories, but what are others thoughts?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 14, 2018, 07:26:23 PM
Mad Max is getting into Leitch territory.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Kingpoleon on August 14, 2018, 10:22:07 PM
Mad Max is getting into Leitch territory.
>Bernier attempting a sophisticated philosophical debate with Trudeau about diversity of opinions using hyperbole

Someone could use some rhetoric and debate classes.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 15, 2018, 07:03:14 AM
With the Liberals clearly leaning in the progressive direction and conservatives pandering more to their base, does anyone think there are enough Blue Liberals/Red Tories out there that a party that appealed to them could gain traction or are we in a more polarized era where such demographic is not as big as it once was.  Also will be interesting to see which party or how they split next election.  I tend to assume around 50-60% of Canadians sit left of centre, 30% are part of the conservative base while 10-15% make up those Blue Liberals/Red Tories, but what are others thoughts?

There's no group more coddled, more overrepresented in our institutions than the fiscally conservative socially liberal crowd. They don't need a new party. Besides, they aren't concentrated enough to win seats. It's be like the Chretien era Tories without the Atlantic regionalism.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: EPG on August 15, 2018, 04:16:53 PM
With the Liberals clearly leaning in the progressive direction and conservatives pandering more to their base, does anyone think there are enough Blue Liberals/Red Tories out there that a party that appealed to them could gain traction or are we in a more polarized era where such demographic is not as big as it once was.  Also will be interesting to see which party or how they split next election.  I tend to assume around 50-60% of Canadians sit left of centre, 30% are part of the conservative base while 10-15% make up those Blue Liberals/Red Tories, but what are others thoughts?

I would guess people content with the historic Liberal party are probably content with Trudeau.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on August 16, 2018, 09:01:45 AM
If Maxime Bernier were removed from the Conservative caucus how likely would he be to be reelected as an independent in Beauce?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 16, 2018, 09:21:38 AM
If Maxime Bernier were removed from the Conservative caucus how likely would he be to be reelected as an independent in Beauce?

Worked for his father.

Not sure if it would for Maxime though. The farmers in the riding hate him.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 16, 2018, 09:50:41 AM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 16, 2018, 10:49:46 AM
People need to stop speculating about early elections. They never come true. Trudeau is not that stupid; he knows he would lose if he went against the fixed election date.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 16, 2018, 10:56:13 AM
If Maxime Bernier were removed from the Conservative caucus how likely would he be to be reelected as an independent in Beauce?

Worked for his father.

Not sure if it would for Maxime though. The farmers in the riding hate him.

People that go that route and win usually have something special going for them. Casey had the equalization issue,  Arthur had his radio show and the Tories giving him a pass etc etc. I think Bernier would do better than the average Indy running for re-election, but I doubt he has anything to put him over the top.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 16, 2018, 01:09:37 PM
Bernier has a lot "going for" him, but just as much (if not more) "going against" him too.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 16, 2018, 02:06:04 PM
Bernier has a lot "going for" him, but just as much (if not more) "going against" him too.

I think if Canada weren't in a trade war with the US, his argument on supply management might gain more traction but right now with the US attacking us in other areas people are in no mood to make any concessions.  Even Brian Mulroney has called for supply management to be phased out as has Martha Hall Findlay who is a Liberal so he is not totally alone on this and the fact he comes from a rural riding with a lot of dairy farmers makes it more gutsy.  Nonetheless he is too much of a free market fundamentalist so he may have some appealing ideas, but I don't think there is a big appetite for a free market fundamentalist.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 17, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
Quite a few Tory MPs want Bernier gone, but not yet a majority.  (http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/8270140f-ccc5-49ae-ba17-762adfdd1dbc__7C___0.html?utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=Internal+Share&utm_content=Screen)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2018, 07:38:35 AM




Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 23, 2018, 08:52:14 AM
Wonder what that will be about?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2018, 08:59:44 AM
He's leaving, possibly to join the Libertarians. (http://www.985fm.ca/nouvelles/politique/140189/maxime-bernier-claquerait-la-porte-de-son-parti)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2018, 09:49:01 AM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 23, 2018, 10:04:32 AM
Well let's hope it doesn't take off. The right's only been united for fifteen years. You'd think most Tories would remember the folly of schism.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on August 23, 2018, 10:19:49 AM
The official theme song of the Halifax convention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQzU6mXwrHw


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 23, 2018, 10:35:14 AM
Well let's hope it doesn't take off. The right's only been united for fifteen years. You'd think most Tories would remember the folly of schism.

I don't think it will, BC Conservatives, Trilium Party in Ontario all went nowhere so suspect same here.  If the Tories don't win in 2019, which is a strong likelihood, it will be because they were unable to convince enough middle of the road voters to support them not because of some split.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on August 23, 2018, 11:18:18 AM
Neither of these two parties were founded by the frontrunner of the previous leadership race who then lost by the narrowest possible margin, and then spent the next year sniping at the leader. And even if Bernier's party fizzles out, Joe and Jane in Oakville will have heard that Andrew Scheer is a bumbler who no-comments out of every controversy.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2018, 11:59:01 AM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 23, 2018, 12:04:04 PM
Bernier speaking now. Mainly talking about supply management.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 23, 2018, 12:22:29 PM
Suspect it goes nowhere.  The problem with the Tories is not they are not conservative enough, the problem is they are too conservative so until either people get so tired of the Liberals they want change like Ontario or they move towards the centre they will remain in opposition split or no split.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2018, 01:06:28 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2018, 01:59:24 PM






Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on August 23, 2018, 02:59:07 PM
The way this infighting has played out has been very Canadian. In Britain, Bernier and Scheer would be openly feuding for weeks with their supporters openly commenting to tabloids. In Australia, Bernier would have called for a surprise leadership vote after one or both byelection losses. In the US, the two would be relentlessly touring Iowa drumming up support for next January's caucus. In France, the two would have viciously traded insults before Bernier goes out with a bang and Scheer faces an open rebellion.

But here, the tensions have been simmering for weeks and after Bernier goes, the entire party establishment closes ranks.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on August 23, 2018, 03:07:31 PM
Is it brave or foolhardy for a Quebec based politician to have ending supply management as one of his signature issues?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 23, 2018, 03:39:44 PM
Is it brave or foolhardy for a Quebec based politician to have ending supply management as one of his signature issues?

Foolhardy

Bernier probably lost the leadership race due to it. Andrew Scheer won a lot of rural Quebec seats thanks to pissed off dairy farmers that should have been easy wins for Maxime.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 23, 2018, 03:49:49 PM
This is all very frustrating as a Tory. I didn't think Scheer would win the election for is but he was low risk and could capitalize to of events went our way. Though I don't think Bernier's party will be Reform 2.0, even a modest showing on his part could screw us out of a lot of seats.



Agreed. Scheer ought to be thankful that Bernier is such an undisciplined politician. That might be his best shot at recovery.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 23, 2018, 03:51:27 PM


Two questions:

1) Anyone have suggestions for what he should call this new outfit?

2) You backing Bernier RB?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on August 23, 2018, 03:52:42 PM
I mean, I'd be surprised if he got over fifteen percent in  his own seat, let alone seriously damage the Tories' chances elsewhere.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 23, 2018, 03:58:55 PM
Is it brave or foolhardy for a Quebec based politician to have ending supply management as one of his signature issues?

Foolhardy

Bernier probably lost the leadership race due to it. Andrew Scheer won a lot of rural Quebec seats thanks to pissed off dairy farmers that should have been easy wins for Maxime.

probably
?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on August 23, 2018, 04:24:14 PM
Two questions:

1) Anyone have suggestions for what he should call this new outfit?
Is a new party allowed to use a word associated with another registered party in its name or could Elections Canada refuse a name that could create confusion ? Could he used the word conservative in a name, like real conservative or conservative libertarian. Or just join the Libertarian party if they already have a structure instead of starting from nothing.   


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on August 23, 2018, 04:28:29 PM
I think it's a case by case basis. The Alliance (Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance) coexisted with the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. But the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist Leninist) was ordered by EC to register as Marxist Leninist Party of Canada due to likelihood of confusion with the Communist Party of Canada. Probably the former, since it's a more relevant precedent.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on August 23, 2018, 04:47:48 PM
Vive Max.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Don Vito Corleone on August 23, 2018, 06:30:12 PM
I mean, I'd be surprised if he got over fifteen percent in his own seat, let alone seriously damage the Tories' chances elsewhere.
The Bernier name carries a lot of weight in Beauce, so his party will probably carry his own seat but no others.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on August 23, 2018, 06:51:26 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DabbingSanta on August 23, 2018, 08:24:32 PM
The PC party have drifted more and more towards liberalism. Such a split is an inevitability. There are many canadians who are very dissatisfied with the current choices.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 23, 2018, 08:31:27 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on August 23, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
The issue that might lead such a party to take off is immigration. On economic issues, there's little appetite for a party to the right of Scheer's Conservatives. Most normal people don't care about supply management. But a large slice of the population is more hostile to immigration and multiculturalism than the leadership of all the political parties. Bernier is speaking for a lot of people who have felt unrepresented on these issues.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 23, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
I mean, I'd be surprised if he got over fifteen percent in his own seat, let alone seriously damage the Tories' chances elsewhere.
The Bernier name carries a lot of weight in Beauce, so his party will probably carry his own seat but no others.

If the Tories were smart, they would run a dairy farmer as a candidate for Beauce against Bernier.  His riding I believe is in the top 10 for most dairy farms so they could make a difference.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on August 23, 2018, 09:51:19 PM
The issue that might lead such a party to take off is immigration. On economic issues, there's little appetite for a party to the right of Scheer's Conservatives. Most normal people don't care about supply management. But a large slice of the population is more hostile to immigration and multiculturalism than the leadership of all the political parties. Bernier is speaking for a lot of people who have felt unrepresented on these issues.

Most Canadians don't care about supply management because they don't understand what it is. The new Bernier party should (and presumably will) campaign on halving Canadians' grocery bills on staple goods and that will strike a chord.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on August 23, 2018, 10:25:00 PM
How does Bernier reconcile his libertarianism with his newfound focus on multiculturalism and immigration?  Anti-immigration politicians usually have some "protectionist" policies and tailor their message to the economically insecure?  But libertarianism is an idelogy of the well-off with little mass appeal.  You won't find much support for it outside the National Post and the Fraser Institute.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 24, 2018, 04:29:41 AM
How does Bernier reconcile his libertarianism with his newfound focus on multiculturalism and immigration?  Anti-immigration politicians usually have some "protectionist" policies and tailor their message to the economically insecure?  But libertarianism is an idelogy of the well-off with little mass appeal.  You won't find much support for it outside the National Post and the Fraser Institute.

I don't think he's figured that out yet. At the press conference the media kept asking him about immigration and multiculturalism, but he refused to answer and kept trying to steer the conversation back to supply management and corporate welfare.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 24, 2018, 07:54:25 AM
Most of the Beauce riding association has resigned, so it looks like Bernier will have a decent organization in his own seat at least.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 24, 2018, 08:27:17 AM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 24, 2018, 09:51:19 AM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on August 24, 2018, 11:17:43 AM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: cp on August 24, 2018, 12:30:16 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".

Lol. Maybe we should just go with 'The Party'. It's got a nice Soviet ring to it :P

In all sincerity, Bernier would probably try to come up with something idiosyncratic, knowing his enormous ego. I'm thinking something like 'En Marche' by Macron.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on August 24, 2018, 02:26:05 PM
to go with libertarian and individual freedom theme and having a name that is similar as much as possible in English and French, I propose the name Liberty / Liberté.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: EPG on August 24, 2018, 04:20:39 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".

Lol. Maybe we should just go with 'The Party'. It's got a nice Soviet ring to it :P

In all sincerity, Bernier would probably try to come up with something idiosyncratic, knowing his enormous ego. I'm thinking something like 'En Marche' by Macron.

Surely "En Marche avec Maxime"


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 24, 2018, 05:19:16 PM




Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on August 24, 2018, 06:03:25 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".
Or "the Waffle."


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MAINEiac4434 on August 25, 2018, 12:54:02 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".

Lol. Maybe we should just go with 'The Party'. It's got a nice Soviet ring to it :P

In all sincerity, Bernier would probably try to come up with something idiosyncratic, knowing his enormous ego. I'm thinking something like 'En Marche' by Macron.
The MAXimum Bparty


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MAINEiac4434 on August 25, 2018, 12:55:00 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".
Or "the Waffle."
The Waffle is a good name actually


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 25, 2018, 09:02:52 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".
Or "the Waffle."
The Waffle is a good name actually

The Waffle is actually a name of a left wing movement within the NDP back in the 70s so not sure that would work so well.  They were a group within the NDP who wanted to move it a lot further to the left.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 26, 2018, 06:18:11 AM
to go with libertarian and individual freedom theme and having a name that is similar as much as possible in English and French, I propose the name Liberty / Liberté.

I like that choice. It's inoffensive but it still gets the ideological point across.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 26, 2018, 06:23:01 AM
Newspaper coverage of Parti Bernier seems near-universally negative.

I would find his choice puzzling if he already hadn't proven to be so undisciplined. Dude would probably be Tory leader two years from now if he had just shut up and been a team player, or at least gone to the private sector for a few years. Hell, even going Indy probably would have garnered less ridicule.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on August 26, 2018, 09:29:27 AM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".
Or "the Waffle."
The Waffle is a good name actually

The Waffle is actually a name of a left wing movement within the NDP back in the 70s so not sure that would work so well.  They were a group within the NDP who wanted to move it a lot further to the left.
Yeah, James Laxer led them IIRC.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on August 26, 2018, 04:12:52 PM
Abacus did a first test here and does show a Bernier led party doing some damage but also hurts the other parties albeit somewhat less.  If Bernier led party goes anywhere, wonder if you will start seeing more Tories supporting PR as Abacus shows 34% for the Tories without a Bernier led party, but with one it is 28% Tories, 13% Bernier led party for a total of 41% so if his becomes a reality it does make it somewhat more difficult for the Tories to win nationally, but not insurmountable (Considering how much Tories hate Justin Trudeau, I could see much like in BC 2013, much of that group swinging back at the last moment similar to the BC Conservatives), but could also be damaging too especially in a lot of close races.  Another possibility is taking a page from Germany and Australia perhaps the Tories cut a deal where Bernier led party only runs candidates in Quebec and they only in the rest of Canada thus become sister parties much like the CDU/CSU (CSU runs only in Bavaria, CDU elsewhere) or Liberal/National Party (Liberals in urban areas, National party in rural areas) although that has its risk.

A quicker easier solution if this goes anywhere, is the Tories just change their position on electoral reform and agree to support ranked ballots which the Liberals favour and that would solve the issue.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 26, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
Abacus did a first test here and does show a Bernier led party doing some damage but also hurts the other parties albeit somewhat less.  If Bernier led party goes anywhere, wonder if you will start seeing more Tories supporting PR as Abacus shows 34% for the Tories without a Bernier led party, but with one it is 28% Tories, 13% Bernier led party for a total of 41% so if his becomes a reality it does make it somewhat more difficult for the Tories to win nationally, but not insurmountable (Considering how much Tories hate Justin Trudeau, I could see much like in BC 2013, much of that group swinging back at the last moment similar to the BC Conservatives), but could also be damaging too especially in a lot of close races.  Another possibility is taking a page from Germany and Australia perhaps the Tories cut a deal where Bernier led party only runs candidates in Quebec and they only in the rest of Canada thus become sister parties much like the CDU/CSU (CSU runs only in Bavaria, CDU elsewhere) or Liberal/National Party (Liberals in urban areas, National party in rural areas) although that has its risk.

A quicker easier solution if this goes anywhere, is the Tories just change their position on electoral reform and agree to support ranked ballots which the Liberals favour and that would solve the issue.

Let's wait and see if Bernier's movement isn't strangled in its cradle before we start talking about the Tories making massive changes.

Also link for anyone who's interested. (http://abacusdata.ca/will-max-bernier-be-a-spoiler-for-the-conservative-party/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 26, 2018, 05:12:42 PM
Ok, so just for the hell of it, I used the cube root rule by region to estimate the results of the next election with and without Parti Bernier. Here's what I got with Bernier (change from without Bernier in parentheses):

Liberal: 187 (+7)
Conservative: 105 (-21)
NDP: 33 (+6)
Bernier: 8 (+8)
Bloc: 2 (nc)
Green: 2 (nc)

Of course all of that is contingent on Bernier actually putting together a party organization and not imploding in the next fifteen months, which I highly doubt.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Mike88 on August 26, 2018, 05:40:56 PM
I wasn't following this. So, Bernier lost the leadership in 2017, he then became part of Scheer's team, started to criticize Scheer's leadership for being weak and left the party to form his own party. In reaction to this, many believe he's only feeding his ego, never accepted the results in 2017 and is trying to divide the Conservatives.

This may be just coincidence, but if you go to the Portuguese politics and elections thread, the exact same thing happened, here, in the biggest party on the center-right, with the split between Santana Lopes and the PSD. The exact same thing, episode by episode. Quite curious.

What kind of party is Bernier is thinking of? Center-right but hard on immigration and social issues?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on August 26, 2018, 06:01:11 PM
I wasn't following this. So, Bernier lost the leadership in 2017, he then became part of Scheer's team, started to criticize Scheer's leadership for being weak and left the party to form his own party. In reaction to this, many believe he's only feeding his ego, never accepted the results in 2017 and is trying to divide the Conservatives.

This may be just coincidence, but if you go to the Portuguese politics and elections thread, the exact same thing happened, here, in the biggest party on the center-right, with the split between Santana Lopes and the PSD. The exact same thing, episode by episode. Quite curious.

Haha neat.

What kind of party is Bernier is thinking of? Center-right but hard on immigration and social issues?

He's a libertarian who mostly wants to attack supply management (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_management_(Canada)), but he's gotten a lot of notice for his anti-multiculturalism comments (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/08/22/bernier-calls-out-conservative-leadership-before-release-of-immigration-platform/). What way the party goes remains to be seen.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 27, 2018, 09:46:16 AM
NDP MP Irene Mathysen (London-Fanshawe) won't run next year. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/08/27/longtime-ndp-mp-irene-mathyssen-retiring/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 28, 2018, 12:23:45 PM
Linda Duncan won't run again. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-federal-ndp-linda-duncan-retire-1.4801671)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 30, 2018, 09:33:30 AM




Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on August 31, 2018, 02:38:56 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MAINEiac4434 on August 31, 2018, 11:59:15 PM
Any clue unto what this party might be named? I don't know why I'm so interested in that rather small detail, but I am.

No idea, but I bet it will be something vague and boring.

Strong words coming from an NDP supporter  :P

:D Hey, when did I ever say I liked the name? At least it beats "New Party".
Or "the Waffle."
The Waffle is a good name actually

The Waffle is actually a name of a left wing movement within the NDP back in the 70s so not sure that would work so well.  They were a group within the NDP who wanted to move it a lot further to the left.
Yes, I know.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 04, 2018, 01:28:51 PM
NDP is deeply in the red and Grits are also in deficit. (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/09/04/federal-ndp-facing-hard-times-latest-financial-report-shows/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Orthogonian Society Treasurer on September 04, 2018, 04:46:06 PM
Bernier’s party up to 17% in new Nanos poll. Almost at Reform ‘93 numbers. (https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/09/04/17--des-canadiens-ouverts-a-lidee-dappuyer-maxime-bernier)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on September 05, 2018, 05:02:49 AM
Tbf that poll says 17% "would consider" voting for a Bernier's party. That said, if that does happen then next election will be a roasting for every non-Grit party.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 05, 2018, 06:29:50 AM
Bernier claims support from 3 current MPs and several former ones. Believe if seen. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/09/04/maverick-quebec-mps-no-name-party-draws-political-interest-ahead-of-official-announcement-next-week.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on September 05, 2018, 01:02:19 PM
Bernier claims support from 3 current MPs and several former ones. Believe if seen. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/09/04/maverick-quebec-mps-no-name-party-draws-political-interest-ahead-of-official-announcement-next-week.html)

I wanted to play guess the 3 MPs. I was thinking of Alupa Clarke from Quebec City who supported Bernier in the leadership race. I looked at the wiki Conservative leadership race page and the list of MPs endorsing Bernier is:

Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
Alupa Clarke (Beauport—Limoilou)
Tony Clement (Parry Sound—Muskoka)
Jacques Gourde (Lévis—Lotbinière)
Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard)
Alex Nuttall (Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte)
Len Webber (Calgary Confederation)

I think Albas, Clement, Gourde and Nuttall have said they were not following him. That leaves Kmiec and Webber. Maybe there is someone wild like an ex Bloc or a NDP MP who would want to join a new party.

There is also a list of former MPs endorsing Bernier on the wiki leadership page (and maps of first round and last round of vote) to maybe give an idea on who could be wanting to make a comeback. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_of_Canada_leadership_election,_2017 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_of_Canada_leadership_election,_2017)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 05, 2018, 03:07:06 PM
Does anybody know of any former Canadian journalist who now works in international relations? Genuinely asking for a (twitter) friend


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 06, 2018, 08:55:53 AM
Bernier claims support from 3 current MPs and several former ones. Believe if seen. (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/09/04/maverick-quebec-mps-no-name-party-draws-political-interest-ahead-of-official-announcement-next-week.html)

Agreed. Unless I see them cross the floor or at least openly complain about Scheer, it's all talk.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 06, 2018, 05:59:19 PM
On Power and Politics today one commentator said that "Three Quebec NDP M.Ps have decided they are going to retire and four others are considering it."

I presume this includes the two who have already announced, Laverdiere and Saganash. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 06, 2018, 06:08:29 PM
JdM has the names. (https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/09/06/vers-une-vague-de-departs-de-neo-democrates) "Ainsi, les Québécois Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, Anne Minh-Thu Quach, Christine Moore et Robert Aubin ont laissé planer le doute sur leur avenir politique." Akin spoke to Boulerice, Dube, REB who all said they're running. Interestingly, Pierre Nantel, Singh's most outspoken caucus critic, isn't on the list.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 06, 2018, 06:10:53 PM
JdM has the names. (https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/09/06/vers-une-vague-de-departs-de-neo-democrates) "Ainsi, les Québécois Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, Anne Minh-Thu Quach, Christine Moore et Robert Aubin ont laissé planer le doute sur leur avenir politique." Akin spoke to Boulerice, Dube, REB who all said they're running. Interestingly, Pierre Nantel, Singh's most outspoken caucus critic, isn't on the list.

It seems Mulcair was the third. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 06, 2018, 09:53:46 PM
On At Issue, Chantal Hebert said she believes Singh would lose a leadership review if held today.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 07, 2018, 08:02:33 AM
On At Issue, Chantal Hebert said she believes Singh would lose a leadership review if held today.

Does the NDP have automatic leadership reviews and if so will one happen before the election?

Also, as with Scheer, I'm not sure why everyone thinks the leadership is so disastrous. They're both facing a fairly popular  first term Liberal PM. One has to grade this on a curve and given the circumstances  I'd say they're both doing ok. They can always be turfed after an election loss.

What are your thoughts Dippers?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Vega on September 07, 2018, 12:02:49 PM
Gary Doer should replace Singh.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on September 07, 2018, 03:55:07 PM
On At Issue, Chantal Hebert said she believes Singh would lose a leadership review if held today.

Does the NDP have automatic leadership reviews and if so will one happen before the election?

Leadership review at every convention.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on September 07, 2018, 05:07:00 PM
Also, as with Scheer, I'm not sure why everyone thinks the leadership is so disastrous. They're both facing a fairly popular  first term Liberal PM. One has to grade this on a curve and given the circumstances  I'd say they're both doing ok. They can always be turfed after an election loss.
He has shown a lack of leadership whenever the party was confronted with a thorny issue. Every time the media asks him a tough question, his handlers simply respond "no comment", thus allowing the media or even the Liberals to answer that question for him. No one has any idea what he stands for, other than some vague platitudes about a positive vision.

Finally, when Maxime Bernier quit, he revealed that the last time Scheer spoke to him was nine days earlier during their last caucus meeting. So Scheer made no effort to prevent an embarrassing split, and just let it happen, for a whole nine days???

And what's with the defeatist attitude about Trudeau and the next election? Even if it's an uphill battle, at the very least the Conservative Party could reduce the Liberals to a minority which would pave the way for a victory in the next vote. But as it stands, there's the real chance the Trudeau Liberals would win 200+ seats with just 37% of the national vote. Jean Chretien would be proud.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 07, 2018, 05:11:45 PM
Also, as with Scheer, I'm not sure why everyone thinks the leadership is so disastrous. They're both facing a fairly popular  first term Liberal PM. One has to grade this on a curve and given the circumstances  I'd say they're both doing ok. They can always be turfed after an election loss.
He has shown a lack of leadership whenever the party was confronted with a thorny issue. Every time the media asks him a tough question, his handlers simply respond "no comment", thus allowing the media or even the Liberals to answer that question for him. No one has any idea what he stands for, other than some vague platitudes about a positive vision.

Finally, when Maxime Bernier quit, he revealed that the last time Scheer spoke to him was nine days earlier during their last caucus meeting. So Scheer made no effort to prevent an embarrassing split, and just let it happen, for a whole nine days???

And what's with the defeatist attitude about Trudeau and the next election? Even if it's an uphill battle, at the very least the Conservative Party could reduce the Liberals to a minority which would pave the way for a victory in the next vote. But as it stands, there's the real chance the Trudeau Liberals would win 200+ seats with just 37% of the national vote. Jean Chretien would be proud.

Andrew Scheer(stupidity) seems to make the same mistake over and over again of going for the immediate political gain while leaving himself open for longer term negatives.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lord Halifax on September 08, 2018, 04:11:02 AM

Too old.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 09, 2018, 07:06:46 AM
Also, as with Scheer, I'm not sure why everyone thinks the leadership is so disastrous. They're both facing a fairly popular  first term Liberal PM. One has to grade this on a curve and given the circumstances  I'd say they're both doing ok. They can always be turfed after an election loss.
He has shown a lack of leadership whenever the party was confronted with a thorny issue. Every time the media asks him a tough question, his handlers simply respond "no comment", thus allowing the media or even the Liberals to answer that question for him. No one has any idea what he stands for, other than some vague platitudes about a positive vision.

Finally, when Maxime Bernier quit, he revealed that the last time Scheer spoke to him was nine days earlier during their last caucus meeting. So Scheer made no effort to prevent an embarrassing split, and just let it happen, for a whole nine days???


Also, as with Scheer, I'm not sure why everyone thinks the leadership is so disastrous. They're both facing a fairly popular  first term Liberal PM. One has to grade this on a curve and given the circumstances  I'd say they're both doing ok. They can always be turfed after an election loss.
He has shown a lack of leadership whenever the party was confronted with a thorny issue. Every time the media asks him a tough question, his handlers simply respond "no comment", thus allowing the media or even the Liberals to answer that question for him. No one has any idea what he stands for, other than some vague platitudes about a positive vision.

Finally, when Maxime Bernier quit, he revealed that the last time Scheer spoke to him was nine days earlier during their last caucus meeting. So Scheer made no effort to prevent an embarrassing split, and just let it happen, for a whole nine days???

Andrew Scheer(stupidity) seems to make the same mistake over and over again of going for the immediate political gain while leaving himself open for longer term negatives

Yes, but what about Singh guys? I'm aware of the centre left consensus on Scheer here, but what do you guys think about Singh's leadership? That was more the point of my post.


And what's with the defeatist attitude about Trudeau and the next election? Even if it's an uphill battle, at the very least the Conservative Party could reduce the Liberals to a minority which would pave the way for a victory in the next vote. But as it stands, there's the real chance the Trudeau Liberals would win 200+ seats with just 37% of the national vote. Jean Chretien would be proud.

I wouldn't call it defeatist. The Liberal lead has declined to about 4% from 8% in the 2015 election and 15-20% earlier in Trudeau's mandate. That's not A+ material, but it isn't disastrous, especially against a popular first term PM. In fact I'd say we'd be in the minority territory you mentioned if it weren't for the NDP and Bloc pooping the bed in Quebec... but then that's not Scheer's fault is it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on September 09, 2018, 09:33:12 AM


I thought Trudeau was much more careful with his language

Well, everything goes towards more entropy, it's a basic physical law.

Not surprised the anti-science alt-right is not aware of that or fights against physics, through.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: cp on September 10, 2018, 12:42:31 AM

And what's with the defeatist attitude about Trudeau and the next election? Even if it's an uphill battle, at the very least the Conservative Party could reduce the Liberals to a minority which would pave the way for a victory in the next vote. But as it stands, there's the real chance the Trudeau Liberals would win 200+ seats with just 37% of the national vote. Jean Chretien would be proud.

I wouldn't call it defeatist. The Liberal lead has declined to about 4% from 8% in the 2015 election and 15-20% earlier in Trudeau's mandate. That's not A+ material, but it isn't disastrous, especially against a popular first term PM. In fact I'd say we'd be in the minority territory you mentioned if it weren't for the NDP and Bloc pooping the bed in Quebec... but then that's not Scheer's fault is it.
[/quote]

Eh, it kind of is. At least insofar as he has been utterly incapable of taking advantage of the NDP/Bloc implosions. A more charismatic or intellectually forceful leader might have been able to make some intervention to shift people's perceptions, or at least capture their attention and help him redefine his image.

As for Singh, I think he's done reasonably well. He hasn't stepped in it on any major issues and he's still a good spokesman for the NDP and his brand of politics. As far as I can gather, the prevailing attitude about him is a general sense of frustration about the political landscape rather than his deficiencies as a leader: it sucks that his not an MP, that the Liberals are still popular, and that the two NDP provincial governments aren't aligned on oil exploitation.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on September 10, 2018, 01:57:07 AM
He hasn’t stepped in it over major issues? What? He got into a civil war with his caucus over abortion, feuds daily with a successful premier from a provincial arm of his party over pipelines, and was seen by some as being too earnest when it came to his strategy for dealing with allegations of abuse/harassment against members of his party.

I won’t rip him to shreds, but there’s no way he could be called a success. Not only has he been an ineffective and hollow spokesperson, but his decision to not immediately seek a seat has since proven to be a huge blunder. He has very little credibility among his own caucus, has not built important intra-party relationships, and has now accumulated such a stink of failure that there’s very little he can do to get out from under it even if he manages to do everything perfectly up to the election. It’s not fair, but it’s the reality. He had lots of chances.

So I maintain that the party made a huge mistake turfing and disrespecting Mulcair. He did not meet expectations in 2015, I’ll grant that. But people saw him and knew he was tough and capable. A bit of course correction for 2019 and he could have been the perfect counterpoint to Trudeau.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 10, 2018, 11:18:29 AM
He hasn’t stepped in it over major issues? What? He got into a civil war with his caucus over abortion, feuds daily with a successful premier from a provincial arm of his party over pipelines, and was seen by some as being too earnest when it came to his strategy for dealing with allegations of abuse/harassment against members of his party.

I won’t rip him to shreds, but there’s no way he could be called a success. Not only has he been an ineffective and hollow spokesperson, but his decision to not immediately seek a seat has since proven to be a huge blunder. He has very little credibility among his own caucus, has not built important intra-party relationships, and has now accumulated such a stink of failure that there’s very little he can do to get out from under it even if he manages to do everything perfectly up to the election. It’s not fair, but it’s the reality. He had lots of chances.

So I maintain that the party made a huge mistake turfing and disrespecting Mulcair. He did not meet expectations in 2015, I’ll grant that. But people saw him and knew he was tough and capable. A bit of course correction for 2019 and he could have been the perfect counterpoint to Trudeau.



This seems quite a bit over the top.  I doubt most Canadians could even name Jagmeet Singh as head of the NDP yet alone know anything about any of these things.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 10, 2018, 01:09:54 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 10, 2018, 07:35:12 PM
Jagmeet's leadership hasn't been that good so far, I'm afraid, but this is Canadian politics; he has plenty of time to redeem himself.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on September 10, 2018, 10:13:36 PM
He hasn’t stepped in it over major issues? What? He got into a civil war with his caucus over abortion, feuds daily with a successful premier from a provincial arm of his party over pipelines, and was seen by some as being too earnest when it came to his strategy for dealing with allegations of abuse/harassment against members of his party.

I won’t rip him to shreds, but there’s no way he could be called a success. Not only has he been an ineffective and hollow spokesperson, but his decision to not immediately seek a seat has since proven to be a huge blunder. He has very little credibility among his own caucus, has not built important intra-party relationships, and has now accumulated such a stink of failure that there’s very little he can do to get out from under it even if he manages to do everything perfectly up to the election. It’s not fair, but it’s the reality. He had lots of chances.

So I maintain that the party made a huge mistake turfing and disrespecting Mulcair. He did not meet expectations in 2015, I’ll grant that. But people saw him and knew he was tough and capable. A bit of course correction for 2019 and he could have been the perfect counterpoint to Trudeau.



This seems quite a bit over the top.  I doubt most Canadians could even name Jagmeet Singh as head of the NDP yet alone know anything about any of these things.

And that’s pretty bad too.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on September 11, 2018, 01:07:36 PM
Noticed this on Twitter: Manitoba MLA and former MP has taken over the fledgling Manitoba Party, apparently without the knowledge of the party’s Board (https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/09/11/ousted-tory-mla-borrows-play-from-bernier-takes-reins-of-new-manitoba-party/)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 11, 2018, 02:06:11 PM
I don't think Trudeau's numbers are great but they are not bad either.  There are not the type of numbers that make re-election a complete certainly, but high enough that the odds are heavily in his favour.  He doesn't have the approval rating Brad Wall had in 2016, but its not rock bottom like Selinger in 2016 or Wynne this past June.  If anything his approval rating is similar to Harper going into 2008 and 2011 as opposed to 2015 and in both cases Harper's lead in the polls going in was pretty small yet still won.  Christy Clark who came one seat shy of a majority and Stephen McNeil who was re-elected both had worse approval ratings than Trudeau.

Trudeau's main danger is a crisis emerges and he handles it poorly or he makes some completely idiotic decision (a good example of this is Shawn Graham who had a much bigger lead a year out form the election but then tried to sell NB Power to Hydro-Quebec which cost him the election).  Where he needs to step up his game is more for 2023 as I think if he continues to govern like he does, 2023 could be a challenge.  Also having Trump, Ford, and probably soon Kenney gives him a good whipping boy and he can claim voting for Scheer means you will get the same from those three.

In terms of parties, the Tories can win in 2019, but it is a steep hill to climb and the odds are definitely not in their favour, but its not impossible, just not likely.  For the NDP winning is pretty close to impossible but they can hold the balance of power if there is a minority thus allowing them to push through some policies they want.  Also another is just patience as Liberal support is mile wide, inch deep so much like Ontario it is not totally inconceivable if the Liberals are in power for a really long time (I am thinking 2027 and beyond), they could fall to third and with no obvious savior, if NDP forms official opposition, they might have a chance sometime in the 2030s at forming government.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 11, 2018, 05:49:38 PM
Noticed this on Twitter: Manitoba MLA and former MP has taken over the fledgling Manitoba Party, apparently without the knowledge of the party’s Board (https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/09/11/ousted-tory-mla-borrows-play-from-bernier-takes-reins-of-new-manitoba-party/)

LOL!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on September 11, 2018, 11:48:01 PM
Doug Ford so far has been awesome


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 12, 2018, 01:43:27 AM

If you like people who believe that a democracy is a four year dictatorship.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 12, 2018, 08:32:45 AM
Please don't quote reply that troll. I have him on ignore, and I don't wish to see his trolling.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 12, 2018, 10:03:24 AM
Please don't quote reply that troll. I have him on ignore, and I don't wish to see his trolling.

Sorry.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 12, 2018, 10:21:52 AM
Blue skying ideas here. With the Liberals meeting in Saskatchewan and the NDP presently in some disarray in Saskatchewan, I wonder if the Liberals will look at 'finessing' the carbon tax. 

1.Saskatchewan is presently the only province where the federal Liberals are the 3rd party: the NDP has managed to remain as the major opposition to the Conservatives in Saskatchewan.  If Ralph Goodale's riding is excluded, the Liberals received something like 17% of the vote in Saskatchewan in the 2015 election.

3.Saskatchewan has 6 (mostly) urban ridings (and the 1 Northern riding though that's a bit different) where the Liberals should be competitive based on the 2015 election results in other provinces and there are the 4 ridings in Alberta they won in the last election and some other ridings where they were competitive but did not win in Alberta, so this does not add up to an insignificant number of ridings.

4.Everybody with any sense knows that regulations to reduce carbon emissions are (much) more expensive than the imposition of a carbon tax, but since no Premier wants to be seen as being a climate denier, they do seem to be willing to apply regulations that would achieve roughly the amount of carbon reductions demanded by the federal government.

The problem here of course is that the Premiers are cowards who simply don't want to impose a direct tax on consumers.  However, since the Federal Liberals are politicians as well, they certainly shouldn't be above accomodating the Premiers in a way that achieves the maximum political gain for them as well.  Backing off the carbon tax might even provide a lifeline to Rachel Notley.

5.While I don't think it would be in the best interests of the Liberals to destroy the NDP, weakening them to the point where the major remaining supporters are Niki Ashton types I think would be the sweet spot for the Liberals. 

The Liberals could certainly use a foil on the left that (not to make too much of a strawman), for instance, argued based on the Chartalist economics view that 'government debt is the long run driver of economic growth', that Israel is the most evil nation in the world today and that even listening to African music is 'cultural appropriation' would certainly make the Liberals look dead centrist in comparison.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MAINEiac4434 on September 12, 2018, 04:16:07 PM
He hasn’t stepped in it over major issues? What? He got into a civil war with his caucus over abortion, feuds daily with a successful premier from a provincial arm of his party over pipelines, and was seen by some as being too earnest when it came to his strategy for dealing with allegations of abuse/harassment against members of his party.

I won’t rip him to shreds, but there’s no way he could be called a success. Not only has he been an ineffective and hollow spokesperson, but his decision to not immediately seek a seat has since proven to be a huge blunder. He has very little credibility among his own caucus, has not built important intra-party relationships, and has now accumulated such a stink of failure that there’s very little he can do to get out from under it even if he manages to do everything perfectly up to the election. It’s not fair, but it’s the reality. He had lots of chances.

So I maintain that the party made a huge mistake turfing and disrespecting Mulcair. He did not meet expectations in 2015, I’ll grant that. But people saw him and knew he was tough and capable. A bit of course correction for 2019 and he could have been the perfect counterpoint to Trudeau.


Hot, unprovable take: if Mulcair was still leader the party would be polling exactly where it is right now.

But I found Tom Mulcair to be the exact wrong person to lead the party after Layton's death and never quite forgave him for running to the center in 2015, so...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 13, 2018, 11:20:55 AM
Bill Casey retiring next year. (http://www.iheartradio.ca/big-dog-100-9/bigdog-news/mp-bill-casey-to-retire-in-2019-1.7951909)

I agree with maineiac that Mulcair or an alternate NDP leader wouldn't be doing much better.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 13, 2018, 11:28:15 AM
Bill Casey retiring next year. (http://www.iheartradio.ca/big-dog-100-9/bigdog-news/mp-bill-casey-to-retire-in-2019-1.7951909)

Casey was like a Greek god in Cumberland-Colchester. Tories might actually pick up an NS next year.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 13, 2018, 12:53:01 PM
Bill Casey retiring next year. (http://www.iheartradio.ca/big-dog-100-9/bigdog-news/mp-bill-casey-to-retire-in-2019-1.7951909)

I agree with maineiac that Mulcair or an alternate NDP leader wouldn't be doing much better.

Considering he will be 76, not really surprised.  Interestingly enough with him not running, the Tories might have a shot at this seat as he was popular enough they didn't stand a chance against him, but without him this area is more conservative than most of Nova Scotia, mind you also Red Tory so a lot will depend if the party moves towards the centre or moves further to the right.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on September 13, 2018, 02:37:14 PM

And what's with the defeatist attitude about Trudeau and the next election? Even if it's an uphill battle, at the very least the Conservative Party could reduce the Liberals to a minority which would pave the way for a victory in the next vote. But as it stands, there's the real chance the Trudeau Liberals would win 200+ seats with just 37% of the national vote. Jean Chretien would be proud.

I wouldn't call it defeatist. The Liberal lead has declined to about 4% from 8% in the 2015 election and 15-20% earlier in Trudeau's mandate. That's not A+ material, but it isn't disastrous, especially against a popular first term PM. In fact I'd say we'd be in the minority territory you mentioned if it weren't for the NDP and Bloc pooping the bed in Quebec... but then that's not Scheer's fault is it.

Eh, it kind of is. At least insofar as he has been utterly incapable of taking advantage of the NDP/Bloc implosions. A more charismatic or intellectually forceful leader might have been able to make some intervention to shift people's perceptions, or at least capture their attention and help him redefine his image.
[/quote]

The Conservatives were the beneficiary of other parties implosion. They won the Chicoutimi by- election and positioned as the only government alternative to Trudeau in polling over 20% in Quebec. Maybe Bernier will fraction the vote and jeopardize their Quebec seats but the Conservatives were working on a plan to male some gains with other parties trouble. It's not about Scheermania but it's still about leadership, choosing the people to work for you and people willing to support you or run for you.

I thought that firing Mulcair was to get a better leader to get better results. It doesn't seem to be happening for now. You get rid of the party's figurehead in Quebec if you figure you will compensate with more in other regions. Ontario has more seats so it can makes sense if the leader can deliver. Singh might have a problem with the transition to federal politics, not being from the caucus and not being always aware of the party policies. It can be tough for leaders of third place parties, the media don't talk about you much (unless you are Trudeau).   


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 14, 2018, 09:28:05 AM
Maxime Bernier has admitted that he registered "People's Party  of Canada" with Elections Canada but he's also considering "Citizen's Party". Guess were getting a lame generic name :(


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 14, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
And its People's Party


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on September 14, 2018, 05:59:59 PM
Will the party aim to run candidates outside of Quebec or is this just a Quebec only party?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 14, 2018, 06:02:15 PM
Will the party aim to run candidates outside of Quebec or is this just a Quebec only party?

He's aiming to go national


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 14, 2018, 06:03:13 PM
Will the party aim to run candidates outside of Quebec or is this just a Quebec only party?

All 338 ridings.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Pragmatic Conservative on September 14, 2018, 06:14:49 PM
Will the party aim to run candidates outside of Quebec or is this just a Quebec only party?

All 338 ridings.
oof that's going to make it tough for the Conservatives to win. I could even see them taking a net loss in seats in 2015. I wonder though what % Peoples will take I imagine 8-10% (I don't think their is a huge market for a libertarian style party in Canada but will see.)

Also outside of Beauce what do you think the most likley seat Peoples would win?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 14, 2018, 09:12:42 PM
Will the party aim to run candidates outside of Quebec or is this just a Quebec only party?

All 338 ridings.
oof that's going to make it tough for the Conservatives to win. I could even see them taking a net loss in seats in 2015. I wonder though what % Peoples will take I imagine 8-10% (I don't think their is a huge market for a libertarian style party in Canada but will see.)

Also outside of Beauce what do you think the most likley seat Peoples would win?

According to Craig Oliver (about the only liberal national media commentator around) Maxime Bernier's party could do very well in and around Quebec City: right wing populist but pro free trade.

Based on that, there may be parts of Alberta where the Weekend at Bernier's Party could do well as well, but I don't know if Bernier could establish himself well enough in a year's time to win any seats in Alberta.

The analogy made by some with Preston Manning and the Reform Party regarding the 1988 election really does not hold water though.  The 1988 election ended up as a referendum on free trade and many Western conservatives held their noses to vote Progressive Conservative.  The leading western conservative publication at the time (Western Report or Alberta Report published by the noxious Byfield family) urged conservatives to hold their nose and vote Progressive Conservative.

Of course, byelections are easy to vote against a government with a solid majority, but I think it's fairly instructive that only a few months after the 1988 election, Deborah Gray won a landslide victory for the Reform Party in Alberta.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 14, 2018, 10:24:49 PM
Actually Rural Alberta is one area where Conservative support is so strong a split would be harmless as one of the two parties would win.  On the other hand could be bad news in Calgary and especially Edmonton if it gets any traction.  Whether it does or not is tough to say.  I tend to think it won't make much difference as most Conservatives hate Trudeau with a passion so the base will coalesce behind whichever party is most likely to defeat them.  Where things could get interesting is can he pull away some swing voters who dislike both the Liberals and Tories.  While much of that group is not libertarian per se, some might who find Liberals too left wing and Tories too right wing vote for him as a protest vote.

Also wondering if some Conservatives wish Trudeau kept his election promise on electoral reform as with PR a split would actually be in the Tories' benefit since whenever you merge two parties you never get the sum of both.  True it is unlikely they would get over 50% although if say Michael Chong split off and formed his own more moderate one it might be plausible of the three parties albeit still a stretch.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 14, 2018, 10:59:20 PM
Actually Rural Alberta is one area where Conservative support is so strong a split would be harmless as one of the two parties would win.  On the other hand could be bad news in Calgary and especially Edmonton if it gets any traction.  Whether it does or not is tough to say.  I tend to think it won't make much difference as most Conservatives hate Trudeau with a passion so the base will coalesce behind whichever party is most likely to defeat them.  Where things could get interesting is can he pull away some swing voters who dislike both the Liberals and Tories.  While much of that group is not libertarian per se, some might who find Liberals too left wing and Tories too right wing vote for him as a protest vote.

Also wondering if some Conservatives wish Trudeau kept his election promise on electoral reform as with PR a split would actually be in the Tories' benefit since whenever you merge two parties you never get the sum of both.  True it is unlikely they would get over 50% although if say Michael Chong split off and formed his own more moderate one it might be plausible of the three parties albeit still a stretch.

Yes. In referring to the late 80s with that though, I don't think strategic voting was as well understood, and so had Alberta Report/Western Report written something like 'these are the ridings where it's safe to vote Reform, but in these ridings you should stick to voting P.C', it probably would have been confusing.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 14, 2018, 11:03:39 PM
Will the party aim to run candidates outside of Quebec or is this just a Quebec only party?

All 338 ridings.
oof that's going to make it tough for the Conservatives to win. I could even see them taking a net loss in seats in 2015. I wonder though what % Peoples will take I imagine 8-10% (I don't think their is a huge market for a libertarian style party in Canada but will see.)

Also outside of Beauce what do you think the most likley seat Peoples would win?

According to Craig Oliver (about the only liberal national media commentator around) Maxime Bernier's party could do very well in and around Quebec City: right wing populist but pro free trade.



Ralliement créditiste 2.0 ?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 14, 2018, 11:23:09 PM
Will the party aim to run candidates outside of Quebec or is this just a Quebec only party?

All 338 ridings.
oof that's going to make it tough for the Conservatives to win. I could even see them taking a net loss in seats in 2015. I wonder though what % Peoples will take I imagine 8-10% (I don't think their is a huge market for a libertarian style party in Canada but will see.)

Also outside of Beauce what do you think the most likley seat Peoples would win?

According to Craig Oliver (about the only liberal national media commentator around) Maxime Bernier's party could do very well in and around Quebec City: right wing populist but pro free trade.



Ralliement créditiste 2.0 ?

Weren't they extreme social conservatives though?  Bernier for all his 'too much diversity' is mainly a libertarian.  Bernier's non racist concerns over immigration might also play well in places where there are many non racists who are unhappy with the negative effects of large amounts of immigration: traffic jams, reduced public services...  So, he might have some popularity in the Lower Mainland and populist areas of Toronto like Scarborough, maybe some parts of the GTA as well.

In the case of the Lower Mainland there are a fair number of people who go to Point Roberts, Washington to pay lower prices for dairy products.  And this maybe compounded by the dislike of the monopoly taxi cartel here in British Columbia as well.

Again, I doubt it would be enough support to actually win a seat even with 4 or 5 way vote splits in the Lower Mainland anyway, don't know enough about Scarborough or the GTA.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 15, 2018, 08:45:45 AM
I know. I meant more in terms of what the electoral map could look like, based on Craig Oliver's comments. That's a big *if* though; assuming Quebec conservatives align more with Bernier's politics. The leadership election proved that the Tory base in Quebec is not that libertarian, but perhaps the voters are?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 2952-0-0 on September 15, 2018, 06:05:44 PM
I know. I meant more in terms of what the electoral map could look like, based on Craig Oliver's comments. That's a big *if* though; assuming Quebec conservatives align more with Bernier's politics. The leadership election proved that the Tory base in Quebec is not that libertarian, but perhaps the voters are?
The Tory base, or the party membership which included dairy farmers who were convinced by Scheer to sign up?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 16, 2018, 07:26:53 AM
I know. I meant more in terms of what the electoral map could look like, based on Craig Oliver's comments. That's a big *if* though; assuming Quebec conservatives align more with Bernier's politics. The leadership election proved that the Tory base in Quebec is not that libertarian, but perhaps the voters are?

Relative to Quebec voters, sure. Relative to Anglo CPC voters, hell no.

I know. I meant more in terms of what the electoral map could look like, based on Craig Oliver's comments. That's a big *if* though; assuming Quebec conservatives align more with Bernier's politics. The leadership election proved that the Tory base in Quebec is not that libertarian, but perhaps the voters are?
The Tory base, or the party membership which included dairy farmers who were convinced by Scheer to sign up?

()

If we ignore the rotten boroughs and just look at Quebec ridings were the Tories either won or did pretty well last time (and therefore have some sort of base and organization on the ground), Bernier ran up the score in Quebec City, but lost in  rural places.

IMO he hasn't really figured out whether his party is going to be a free marketeer or a right wing populist. If the former, I don't see him having much of an impact outside of Quebec City, Beauce and maybe the better off bits of Calgary. If the latter, he has a much bigger market for his ideas, especially in Quebec.

None of the major parties seem to be a great fit for the current tone of Quebec politics. The Liberals and NDP are too federalist and too pro-multicultural. The Bloc is too nationalist,  and the Tories are too... Tory. If Bernier plays his cards right, and that's a big if, he could  make some noise there.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: JoeyOCanada on September 16, 2018, 07:11:27 PM
I fear that the People's Party is gonna split the vote and cause a Trudeau reelection...


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Rules for me, but not for thee on September 17, 2018, 12:01:43 PM
Go Mad Max!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFdolEltCgs


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 17, 2018, 12:20:57 PM
I fear that the People's Party is gonna split the vote and cause a Trudeau reelection...

I don't think it will have much impact as unlike the 90s, the Conservative base hates Trudeau with a passion, whereas they didn't loathe Chretien to the same degree they loathe Trudeau so they will coalesce behind whichever is stronger, almost certainly the Conservatives.  The Conservatives are more likely to lose due to inability to appeal to centrist swing voters not split on the right.  The bigger danger of Maxime Bernier's new party, is the Tories will move rightward to prevent a split and this will make them unacceptable to middle of the road swing voters thus hurting their chances of winning.  Never mind for Trudeau, Trump and Ford and likely Kenney by 2019 is a perfect trio Trudeau can whip the Tories with and claim voting Tory means you get what those three offer. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: EPG on September 17, 2018, 12:24:52 PM
Sorry, why exactly is this a phenomenon? Is Andrew Scheer too, what, moderate? Surely not. Or just not an inspiring leader?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 17, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
Grit backbencher crosses the floor to the Tories. (https://twitter.com/paulvieira/status/1041744303314354176)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on September 17, 2018, 01:02:44 PM
She is from York Region, which is trending Conservative relative to the rest of the GTA.  She only won narrowly in the big red wave.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on September 17, 2018, 01:43:31 PM
She is from York Region, which is trending Conservative relative to the rest of the GTA.  She only won narrowly in the big red wave.

Also her riding went massively PC last June going 56% so this was probably one of the lowest hanging fruits for the Conservatives.  Not saying it is totally out of principle, but I think the Conservatives probably had a slight edge here to begin with.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 17, 2018, 01:57:03 PM
Sorry, why exactly is this a phenomenon? Is Andrew Scheer too, what, moderate? Surely not. Or just not an inspiring leader?

I'd say it's two things:

1) Harper kept a lot of people under wraps in order to gain power. Scheer has failed to keep those people happy.

2) Bernier has an ego the size of the Canadian Shield.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 17, 2018, 02:02:42 PM
She is from York Region, which is trending Conservative relative to the rest of the GTA.  She only won narrowly in the big red wave.

Also her riding went massively PC last June going 56% so this was probably one of the lowest hanging fruits for the Conservatives.  Not saying it is totally out of principle, but I think the Conservatives probably had a slight edge here to begin with.

She has a military background so it's not outlandish that she might find the Tories appealing, but since she is a backbencher with no track record of rightist statements, I'm going to assume its self interest.

Guilty until proven innocent :P


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: cp on September 17, 2018, 02:21:38 PM
She is from York Region, which is trending Conservative relative to the rest of the GTA.  She only won narrowly in the big red wave.

Also her riding went massively PC last June going 56% so this was probably one of the lowest hanging fruits for the Conservatives.  Not saying it is totally out of principle, but I think the Conservatives probably had a slight edge here to begin with.

She has a military background so it's not outlandish that she might find the Tories appealing, but since she is a backbencher with no track record of rightist statements, I'm going to assume its self interest.

Guilty until proven innocent :P

Yup, that sounds about right. Military folk tend to lean Conservative in Canada most of the time, so the groundwork is laid. If she thinks she's going to be listened to more as a Tory backbencher than a Liberal one, fair enough. If she thinks she's lining herself up for a Cabinet position in the 2019-2023 Scheer government ... she may be being a touch premature.


2) Bernier has an ego the size of the Canadian Shield.



*Epic* analogy. Well done.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 17, 2018, 10:12:12 PM
Sorry, why exactly is this a phenomenon? Is Andrew Scheer too, what, moderate? Surely not. Or just not an inspiring leader?

He's an airhead who can only speak about policy using meaningless right wing cliches.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 18, 2018, 07:26:53 AM


2) Bernier has an ego the size of the Canadian Shield.



*Epic* analogy. Well done.

Haha, thanks.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on September 18, 2018, 07:28:13 AM
The Libertarian Party is considering merging with Bernier's new outfit. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-libertarian-party-merger-1.4827241)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 19, 2018, 09:26:07 AM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: JoeyOCanada on September 19, 2018, 04:37:28 PM
The Libertarian Party is considering merging with Bernier's new outfit. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-libertarian-party-merger-1.4827241)

Intriguing but I doubt this would have any major effect.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 21, 2018, 09:11:10 PM
This week at Rideau Hall: Both government officials and Payette herself are quite frustrated with her performance to the extent there's speculation her term might end early. (https://nationalpost.com/news/failure-to-launch-inside-julie-payettes-turbulent-first-year-as-governor-general)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on September 28, 2018, 06:20:07 PM
https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/09/28/montreal-area-mp-nicola-di-iorio-mulling-political-future/#.W662iWhKiM-

But in a message on his Facebook page this week, the MP says he is giving himself another month to reflect on his future as well as to consult his loved ones and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

That message came after he told Le Progres de Saint-Leonard, a weekly newspaper in his neighbourhood, he would stay on until the end of his mandate in 2019.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 29, 2018, 01:28:04 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on September 29, 2018, 06:49:06 PM
So it was probably true they were waiting after the elections to sign a deal with concessions.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on September 30, 2018, 09:04:27 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on October 03, 2018, 11:36:37 AM
Le Devoir is reporting on Bernier's new party. The party has recruited 20 374 members and raised $338,000. They say by comparison the Conservative party has about 100,000 members and the Green 20,000.  The party expect to  raise $3.5 million this year. In 2017 the Conservatives raised $20 million, Liberals $15.7 million and NDP $4.8 million. The article also talks about some Conservatives in Quebec on riding executives switching to the new party.

https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/538193/parti-progressiste-conservateur-bernier-debauche-six-presidents-d-association-au-quebec (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/538193/parti-progressiste-conservateur-bernier-debauche-six-presidents-d-association-au-quebec)   


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 03, 2018, 02:30:36 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Njall on October 03, 2018, 03:36:47 PM


This move has a similar effect as Notley's tbh. They're still going ahead with their "made in Manitoba" $25/tonne carbon tax, which will be above the federal standard until 2020.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 04, 2018, 06:38:09 AM
Adam van Koeverden will be the Grit candidate against Lisa Raitt in Milton. (https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2018/10/04/olympic-kayak-champion-adam-van-koeverden-to-seek-liberal-nomination-in-milton.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 04, 2018, 08:10:26 AM
Adam van Koeverden will be the Grit candidate against Lisa Raitt in Milton. (https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2018/10/04/olympic-kayak-champion-adam-van-koeverden-to-seek-liberal-nomination-in-milton.html)

Neat. I paddled and met him the one year I went to nationals. Very nice and approachable guy. You'd think someone like him would be able to get a safer seat instead of trying to pick off a Tory notable.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 04, 2018, 08:50:39 AM
Just adding to the long list of notable athletes/minor celebrities running as sacrificial lambs for the Liberal Party. Remember when Ross Rebagliati ran?

[ETA: Rebagliati didn't actually run apparently, he dropped out. Still though, wanting to run against Stockwell Day was a bit of an uphill battle]


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 04, 2018, 08:58:04 AM
It's his hometown and there aren't any safer ones open. I'd have given Bennett an ambassadorship, maybe WHO rep, and given him St. Paul's.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 04, 2018, 09:21:33 AM
It's his hometown and there aren't any safer ones open. I'd have given Bennett an ambassadorship, maybe WHO rep, and given him St. Paul's.

Haha. If I ever got a safe seat, I'd be angling for a cushy ambassadorship as soon as I could. Hon. DC Al Fine, Ambassador to the Bahamas has a nice ring to it :)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on October 04, 2018, 11:06:07 AM
It's his hometown and there aren't any safer ones open. I'd have given Bennett an ambassadorship, maybe WHO rep, and given him St. Paul's.

Does WHO Rep matter?  Carolyn Bennett is flaky.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: King of Kensington on October 05, 2018, 01:01:23 AM
It's his hometown and there aren't any safer ones open. I'd have given Bennett an ambassadorship, maybe WHO rep, and given him St. Paul's.

I'm thinking Eric Hoskins might run in St. Paul's.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 09, 2018, 02:47:44 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on October 09, 2018, 06:58:48 PM
Is Pharmacare the next big policy goal, assuming the Liberals win a second term? Pharmacare has around 90% support nationally, it must have very high approval ratings even among Conservatives. I have always found it weird that we have had universal healthcare for the last 50 years, but no Pharmacare.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 17, 2018, 07:47:07 PM
Nanos is prompting for the People's Party. Only has them at 1.3%


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 22, 2018, 03:09:26 PM
Feds will announce details of their carbon tax mandate tomorrow. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-carbon-tax-plan-trudeau-1.4873177)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on October 22, 2018, 03:54:33 PM
Is Pharmacare the next big policy goal, assuming the Liberals win a second term? Pharmacare has around 90% support nationally, it must have very high approval ratings even among Conservatives. I have always found it weird that we have had universal healthcare for the last 50 years, but no Pharmacare.

Would Ottawa pay for it all or send the bill to provinces. I'm curious how it would work, who would decide what drugs are on the drug insured list. For Quebec, would it be a better insurance plan than the public drug insurance plan or it keeps the same plan but Ottawa sends money for it (or part of it).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on October 22, 2018, 04:02:57 PM
Nanos is prompting for the People's Party. Only has them at 1.3%

I imagine growth will depend how much media gives them coverage, maybe these days you can get around that with social media.

If they are at 1 or 2% in polls Bernier might not be invited to particiapte in debates and great exposure that comes with it. He needs big numbers to force his way in debates.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on October 24, 2018, 07:13:14 PM
In addition to the 5 Quebecers regularly mentioned in French media, Cullen, Rankin and Masse are mulling retirement. (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1131808/npd-nouveau-parti-democratique-incertitude-deputes-elections-jagmeet-singh)



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 27, 2018, 02:02:05 PM
It's not official yet, but Tim Houston nearly won on the first ballot and the runner up Cecil Clarke has conceded. Houston will be the next leader of the NS Tories.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 27, 2018, 10:41:32 PM
In addition to the 5 Quebecers regularly mentioned in French media, Cullen, Rankin and Masse are mulling retirement. (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1131808/npd-nouveau-parti-democratique-incertitude-deputes-elections-jagmeet-singh)



I was hoping Yvan Baker's political career would be dead. His private member's bill attempting to ban texting and crossing the street was ludicrous.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 28, 2018, 07:20:53 AM
NS PC leadership results

Tim Houston (MLA Pictou East): 49%
Cecil Clarke (Mayor of Cape Breton, former cabinet minister): 27%
John Lohr (MLA Kings North): 14%
Elizabeth Smith McCrossin (MLA Cumberland North): 8%
Julie Chiassion (some rando): 2%

The party used the same system as federally. No detailed results by riding are out as far as I know.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on October 28, 2018, 12:00:53 PM
So no second ballot, because Clarke dropped out? Makes sense, 49% is a guaranteed win.

Do you think Houston will take the party back to the right?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 28, 2018, 04:41:35 PM
So no second ballot, because Clarke dropped out? Makes sense, 49% is a guaranteed win.

Correct

Do you think Houston will take the party back to the right?

Fiscally yes, socially he's as red as Baillie was.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on October 28, 2018, 09:27:26 PM
Hope this passes: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-teachers-math-test-ontario-1.4878114


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on October 29, 2018, 03:53:07 AM
Heaven forbid students practice experimenting, problem-solving, and thinking critically to build computational math skills/number sense. ::)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 02, 2018, 05:28:36 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 06, 2018, 02:34:33 PM
Bernard Landry has died at 81. (https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/obituary-former-parti-quebecois-leader-bernard-landry-do-not-publish)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 08, 2018, 02:24:57 PM
The Clement scandal gets worse. (https://m.thestar.com/politics/federal/2018/11/08/attempts-to-expose-former-conservative-mp-tony-clements-online-sexual-activities-go-back-to-last-summer-women-say.html)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 08, 2018, 09:29:25 PM
The Clement scandal gets worse. (https://m.thestar.com/politics/federal/2018/11/08/attempts-to-expose-former-conservative-mp-tony-clements-online-sexual-activities-go-back-to-last-summer-women-say.html)

Oh boy


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on November 13, 2018, 03:14:46 PM
Apparently Maxime Bernier's People's party has 33,000 members and is able to draw large crowds.  I am skeptical the party will go very far.  People may be split on whether we should have less or more government, but I don't think libertarianism is very popular.  Most seem to see it as only favouring the very rich thus making it a very tough sell.  As such I don't see his PPC going very far, but even if it only got 5-10% of the popular vote, that could cost the Tories a whole wack of seats thus guaranteeing an even bigger Liberal majority.  Also PPC gaining will probably force the Tories to move rightwards thus making it tougher for them to win over the Liberal-Tory swing votes they need to win.  On the other hand if Bernier attracts enough kookie candidates, they might end up being like the BC Conservatives or if they get little media attention could end up being like the Trilium Party in Ontario.  Both were expected to cause headaches for the Ontario PCs and BC Liberals yet neither materialized.

Mainstreet is now doing their quarterly provincial polls.  So far mixed results.

BC: Referendum like with insights West looks to be a nail biter so depends heavily on turnout.  Older voters generally favour FTFP and are more likely to vote, but those who want to change to PR are more passionate about it thus might be more inclined to vote.  BC Liberals have a very narrow lead, but considering BC Conservative support it is likely under FTFP things are looking good for the BC Liberals.  Only thing that might help the NDP is John Horgan is more popular than Andrew Wilkinson so numbers could easily move.  If PR goes through then slight advantage NDP and NDP + Greens are just over 50%, but no matter who wins neither side has a lock.  Besides I expect the government to last until 2021 so lots can change.

Alberta:  As mentioned elsewhere, big UCP lead so they are heavy favourites and unless they screw up badly, will likely win next year.

Ontario: Unlike other polls, PCs still have a strong lead although with no election until 2022, polls are meaningless at this point.

New Brunswick - MQO: It appears recent drama has helped the Greens dramatically, helped the PCs slightly, while hurt the Liberals and had no impact on People's Alliance.

PEI: Both polls show a tight three way race so anyone's game.

Nova Scotia - MQO: Liberals have slight lead, but with an election not until 2021 still plenty of time for things to change.

Newfoundland & Labrador: Liberals in lead so in good shape to win re-election next year, but PCs not totally out of it, but have an uphill battle.  Will likely form a stronger opposition, but need to up their game to win outright. 

Still waiting to see what is in store in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Quebec.  My guess is Saskatchewan Party and Manitoba PCs are in the lead, but not as big as what they got in 2016, but we shall see.  Quebec just had their election so will be interesting to see if Legault gets any bounce here.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 13, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
The Tories just picked a new leader in NS, so that likely explains the Liberals drop.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on November 13, 2018, 07:07:26 PM
Interestingly enough Campaign research in Ontario has 34% PC, 32% Liberal, and 25% NDP so more in line with Innovative than Mainstreet research.  Only caveat I have with the poll is over half sampled are in the 416 although I suspect they weight it.  In 416 it is 37% Liberal to 30% PC which seems plausible, but in 905 belt it is 38% PC to 32% Liberal while rest of Ontario 40% PC, 27% NDP, and 21% Liberal so doesn't quite seem to add up since 416 is under 25% of the population so using 25% in 416, 25% in 905 and 50% elsewhere I get 37% PC and 28% Liberal, but whichever one you want to believe it is clear Ford is not enjoying a honeymoon and more dislike him than like while the Liberals with Wynne gone are rebounding, it is just a question of how much while NDP doesn't seem to benefitting.  On the minimum wage hike, both show similar numbers with a slim majority opposing his decision to cancel the hike to $15/hour, but still over 40% supporting it.  Either way with no election until 2022, I suspect you will get a fair bit of variation.  Either way all post election polls show the PCs ahead but generally below what they got on e-day, Liberals rebounding, and NDP falling a bit.  With the government less than six months old, not a very good start, but Ford was always a very polarizing figure so hard to say if numbers will shift or perhaps he is simply the type you either love (a minority around 35%) or hate (around 60%).


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on November 25, 2018, 06:25:01 PM






Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on November 25, 2018, 08:09:41 PM
Ah yikes, that's huge


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on November 26, 2018, 07:16:36 PM
That's one of my big fears about the electric car transition: overall you have far less moving parts in an electric car, so any region dependent on automative industry Jobs is going to be severely hurt by the switchover.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 02, 2018, 08:04:11 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on December 06, 2018, 04:29:03 AM
Seems like the Liberals have backed down on the summer grant program attestation nonsense. 

Fairly obvious compromise: funding can no longer go to programs that are 'anti charter' i.e to a program funding anti abortion activities, but the organizations can continue these programs by themselves.  There will be no attestation either, but Service Canada civil servants will check out the grant seeking programs to ensure they don't violate the new rules.

Seems most people are happy with this. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4732603/canada-summer-jobs-attestation-change/


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 09, 2018, 02:42:21 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 10, 2018, 08:58:58 AM
Svend Robinson planning a comeback in his old riding. (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/543275/svend-robinson-songe-a-un-retour)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on December 20, 2018, 07:58:15 PM
FPTP wins with 61% in BC.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: brucejoel99 on December 21, 2018, 05:34:57 AM

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on December 21, 2018, 02:12:51 PM

The absolute worst thing is my BC Liberal acquaintances pretending to be progressive. They celebrate the defeat of proportional representation but two years ago lamented the way Trudeau abandoned it.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on December 21, 2018, 02:27:00 PM

The absolute worst thing is my BC Liberal acquaintances pretending to be progressive. They celebrate the defeat of proportional representation but two years ago lamented the way Trudeau abandoned it.

That was a weird case. I was annoyed at Trudeau abandoning democratic reform but at the same time, I would take FPTP over Trudeau's proposed IRV system and I'm a huge fan of proportional representation.

IRV is irritating since how much a party is disliked can have a substanstial effect on its result, regardless of it's vote share. FPTP has this, but the effect is much more muted.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: MaxQue on December 21, 2018, 04:46:12 PM

The absolute worst thing is my BC Liberal acquaintances pretending to be progressive. They celebrate the defeat of proportional representation but two years ago lamented the way Trudeau abandoned it.

BC Liberals aren't progressive, according to any definition.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on December 25, 2018, 03:58:34 PM
In New Brunswick, Deputy premier Robert Gauvin is pondering his ffuture with the PC party.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/gauvin-questions-future-pcs-1.4956691 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/gauvin-questions-future-pcs-1.4956691)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lechasseur on January 03, 2019, 08:28:27 AM

The absolute worst thing is my BC Liberal acquaintances pretending to be progressive. They celebrate the defeat of proportional representation but two years ago lamented the way Trudeau abandoned it.

That was a weird case. I was annoyed at Trudeau abandoning democratic reform but at the same time, I would take FPTP over Trudeau's proposed IRV system and I'm a huge fan of proportional representation.

IRV is irritating since how much a party is disliked can have a substanstial effect on its result, regardless of it's vote share. FPTP has this, but the effect is much more muted.

Yeah, imo IRV is the worst election system possible. It also for the most part makes sure that two parties dominate a system and can't be punished the way they should be. The acceptable systems in my eyes are either FPTP, jungle primary+runoff or proportional representation. But I'd always vote against IRV.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Joe Republic on January 07, 2019, 11:58:36 AM
Kim Campbell agrees with Rashida Tlaib (https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-called-motherfer-second-time-3-days-time-canadas-first-woman-1281336)


()


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 10, 2019, 10:06:38 AM
Brison resigning from Cabinet and will retire from politics in October to spend more time with his family. (https://globalnews.ca/news/4833757/scott-brison-resigns-2019-canadian-election/?utm_source=%40globalnews&utm_medium=Twitter)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 10, 2019, 11:39:00 AM
Kings-Hants might be a dark horse candidate for most surprising Tory pickup this fall.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 11, 2019, 09:56:19 AM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: PSOL on January 11, 2019, 02:26:38 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/11/canada-pipeline-indigenous-trudeau-treaty
Quote
Justin Trudeau was in campaign mode this week, striding around a school gymnasium, shirtsleeves rolled up and brow suitably furrowed as he addressed voters’ concerns at one of his annual town hall-style meetings.

A day earlier and nearly 800km away, another face of the federal government was on display as dozens of police – some heavily armed – stormed a makeshift barricade, arresting 14 indigenous protesters and prompting others to flee for safety on snowmobiles.

The protesters in northern British Columbia had camped out for days amid bitter cold and deep snow, manning a checkpoint to prevent construction vehicles from entering the territory of the Wet’suwet’en nation.

Their demonstrations, part of a fight against a multibillion-dollar natural gas pipeline, galvanized supporters across the country, and at his town hall meeting, the prime minister was forced to contend with a barrage of angry questions.
So what has been the reaction to this by the parties? Will this impact elections in B.C. Or nationally in 2019?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 11, 2019, 03:45:47 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/11/canada-pipeline-indigenous-trudeau-treaty
Quote
Justin Trudeau was in campaign mode this week, striding around a school gymnasium, shirtsleeves rolled up and brow suitably furrowed as he addressed voters’ concerns at one of his annual town hall-style meetings.

A day earlier and nearly 800km away, another face of the federal government was on display as dozens of police – some heavily armed – stormed a makeshift barricade, arresting 14 indigenous protesters and prompting others to flee for safety on snowmobiles.

The protesters in northern British Columbia had camped out for days amid bitter cold and deep snow, manning a checkpoint to prevent construction vehicles from entering the territory of the Wet’suwet’en nation.

Their demonstrations, part of a fight against a multibillion-dollar natural gas pipeline, galvanized supporters across the country, and at his town hall meeting, the prime minister was forced to contend with a barrage of angry questions.
So what has been the reaction to this by the parties? Will this impact elections in B.C. Or nationally in 2019?

With the exception of the Greens, all of the parties are a party to this (sorry.)  I suppose even the Greens in B.C could be seen as supporting this if they don't pull out of their agreement with the NDP.

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on January 14, 2019, 03:36:07 PM
Cabinet shuffle, probably the last one before the election: David Lametti joins cabinet as Justice Minister. Wilson-Raybould to Veterans Affairs. Seamus O'Regan to Indigenous Services, Jane Philpott to Treasury replacing Scott Brison.

The government also made a new Minstry of Economic Development for Bernadette Jordan, who will be the NS cabinet minister now that Brison is gone.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 26, 2019, 02:57:33 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on January 27, 2019, 07:13:40 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on January 29, 2019, 02:51:03 AM
Harper goes on Prager U : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWE2jl5mwA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2vlhsyxA3UGJJrG15E4f88L8CscC3QVIkDwywoM7Yz35uVQUchPPZFz0s


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 29, 2019, 02:57:48 AM
Harper goes on Prager U : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWE2jl5mwA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2vlhsyxA3UGJJrG15E4f88L8CscC3QVIkDwywoM7Yz35uVQUchPPZFz0s

With most videos from Prager 'U', you end up knowing less facts than before you saw the video.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on January 29, 2019, 02:59:26 AM
Harper goes on Prager U : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWE2jl5mwA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2vlhsyxA3UGJJrG15E4f88L8CscC3QVIkDwywoM7Yz35uVQUchPPZFz0s

With most videos from Prager 'U', you end up knowing less facts than before you saw the video.

Harper though almost always make a reasonable and intelligent point


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 29, 2019, 03:27:12 AM
Harper goes on Prager U : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWE2jl5mwA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2vlhsyxA3UGJJrG15E4f88L8CscC3QVIkDwywoM7Yz35uVQUchPPZFz0s

With most videos from Prager 'U', you end up knowing less facts than before you saw the video.

Harper though almost always make a reasonable and intelligent point

I'm familiar with Harper's arguments because he wrote a book on it that had some discussion in the media. Even with some conservative leaning Canadian columnists (Andrew Coyne and Tristan Hopper at the National Post) the concept of the 'anywheres' was ridiculed.

Andrew Coyne: Stephen Harper comes across as banal in effort to claim mantle of populism
Harper’s book is largely an attempt to portray his own government, not as the cynical power-seeking machine it appeared to be, but as populist before its time.

I disagree in that Harper did market his government at the time as 'populist' but without using that word: a 'Tim Horton's conservative' and his signature tax cut was the reduction of the GST from 7% to 5% 

Canada has also benefited from our large resource economy: young people, not necessarily straight out of high school, but after maybe a 6 month certificate program can get a relatively well paying job in the oil patch or in mining.  For most other jobs, it's now almost impossible to get a high paying job roughly straight out of high school.

However, this does bring up the point.  The irony of Trump and the Congressional Republicans benefiting from the 'somewheres' revolt against the 'elites' is that it was Republican policies that led to the real elites (the 1% approximately) gaining a larger and larger share of national income.

I support free trade and oppose tariffs, but there was always a concern with a fallacy of composition/commons problem: each individual wealthy business owner benefited from taking nearly all of the gains from trade for themselves, but all together, they've poisoned the well a great deal for support of free trade.

Republican policies that enabled this include:
1.anti union policies like the so-called 'right to work.'
2.tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy
3.rising tuition rates
4.Inadequate social programs in order to ensure that corporations have a pool of unemployed to keep wages depressed
5.Opposition to campaign finance reform


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: OSR stands with Israel on January 29, 2019, 03:33:49 AM
Harper goes on Prager U : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWE2jl5mwA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2vlhsyxA3UGJJrG15E4f88L8CscC3QVIkDwywoM7Yz35uVQUchPPZFz0s

With most videos from Prager 'U', you end up knowing less facts than before you saw the video.

Harper though almost always make a reasonable and intelligent point

I'm familiar with Harper's arguments because he wrote a book on it that had some discussion in the media. Even with some conservative leaning Canadian columnists (Andrew Coyne and Tristan Hopper at the National Post) the concept of the 'anywheres' was ridiculed.

Andrew Coyne: Stephen Harper comes across as banal in effort to claim mantle of populism
Harper’s book is largely an attempt to portray his own government, not as the cynical power-seeking machine it appeared to be, but as populist before its time.

I disagree in that Harper did market his government at the time as 'populist' but without using that word: a 'Tim Horton's conservative' and his signature tax cut was the reduction of the GST from 7% to 5% 

Canada has also benefited from our large resource economy: young people, not necessarily straight out of high school, but after maybe a 6 month certificate program can get a relatively well paying job in the oil patch or in mining.  For most other jobs, it's now almost impossible to get a high paying job roughly straight out of high school.

However, this does bring up the point.  The irony of Trump and the Congressional Republicans benefiting from the 'somewheres' revolt against the 'elites' is that it was Republican policies that led to the real elites (the 1% approximately) gaining a larger and larger share of national income.

I support free trade and oppose tariffs, but there was always a concern with a fallacy of composition/commons problem: each individual wealthy business owner benefited from taking nearly all of the gains from trade for themselves, but all together, they've poisoned the well a great deal for support of free trade.

Republican policies that enabled this include:
1.anti union policies like the so-called 'right to work.'
2.tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy
3.rising tuition rates
4.Inadequate social programs in order to ensure that corporations have a pool of unemployed to keep wages depressed
5.Opposition to campaign finance reform



Harper did negotiate most of Canada's Free Trade Deals , and handled the 08 Recession better than America or Europe Did .


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on January 29, 2019, 03:40:54 AM
Harper goes on Prager U : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWE2jl5mwA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2vlhsyxA3UGJJrG15E4f88L8CscC3QVIkDwywoM7Yz35uVQUchPPZFz0s

With most videos from Prager 'U', you end up knowing less facts than before you saw the video.

Harper though almost always make a reasonable and intelligent point

I'm familiar with Harper's arguments because he wrote a book on it that had some discussion in the media. Even with some conservative leaning Canadian columnists (Andrew Coyne and Tristan Hopper at the National Post) the concept of the 'anywheres' was ridiculed.

Andrew Coyne: Stephen Harper comes across as banal in effort to claim mantle of populism
Harper’s book is largely an attempt to portray his own government, not as the cynical power-seeking machine it appeared to be, but as populist before its time.

I disagree in that Harper did market his government at the time as 'populist' but without using that word: a 'Tim Horton's conservative' and his signature tax cut was the reduction of the GST from 7% to 5%  

Canada has also benefited from our large resource economy: young people, not necessarily straight out of high school, but after maybe a 6 month certificate program can get a relatively well paying job in the oil patch or in mining.  For most other jobs, it's now almost impossible to get a high paying job roughly straight out of high school.

However, this does bring up the point.  The irony of Trump and the Congressional Republicans benefiting from the 'somewheres' revolt against the 'elites' is that it was Republican policies that led to the real elites (the 1% approximately) gaining a larger and larger share of national income.

I support free trade and oppose tariffs, but there was always a concern with a fallacy of composition/commons problem: each individual wealthy business owner benefited from taking nearly all of the gains from trade for themselves, but all together, they've poisoned the well a great deal for support of free trade.

Republican policies that enabled this include:
1.anti union policies like the so-called 'right to work.'
2.tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy
3.rising tuition rates
4.Inadequate social programs in order to ensure that corporations have a pool of unemployed to keep wages depressed
5.Opposition to campaign finance reform



Harper did negotiate most of Canada's Free Trade Deals , and handled the 08 Recession better than America or Europe Did .

Canada had a better regulated banking system that wasn't all that involved with the buying of the bundled mortgages.  Canada also has more conservative (as opposed to Conservative) bankers due to not having the capital to invest in the expensive high risk/high reward projects.  That's what the mergers were all about.  Had the mergers gone ahead, the banking culture almost certainly would have changed.

Thanks Finance Minister Paul Martin!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/ban-on-bank-mergers-helped-canada-withstand-crash-imf-says/article4600686/

Stephen Harper supported the chartered bank mergers and other financial deregulation.  Had he been Prime Minister in the late 1990s, Canada almost certainly would have been as bad off as the United States and Europe.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 02, 2019, 04:32:07 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: warandwar on February 02, 2019, 11:15:31 PM

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 02, 2019, 11:32:12 PM

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: warandwar on February 02, 2019, 11:48:02 PM

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

????? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 02, 2019, 11:55:39 PM

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

????? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: warandwar on February 03, 2019, 02:05:28 AM

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

????? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?

Not sure expansion of the franchise went alongside respect for human rights in a linear fashion! Many bumps in that road, I say that as a Jew...


Do you think the Wet'suwet'en are suffering under the yoke of dictators? Were the RCMP acting as liberators? C'mon bruh... saying traditional chiefs are dictators, when they're the ones who've got the barrels pointed at them...

Anyways, Most of your questions can be answered by this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA1dihXTjBU).

Anyways


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: warandwar on February 03, 2019, 02:09:59 AM

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

????? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?

Not sure expansion of the franchise went alongside respect for human rights in a linear fashion! Many bumps in that road, I say that as a Jew...


Do you think the Wet'suwet'en are suffering under the yoke of dictators? Were the RCMP acting as liberators? C'mon bruh... saying traditional chiefs are dictators, when they're the ones who've got the barrels pointed at them...

Anyways, Most of your questions can be answered by this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA1dihXTjBU) and these (https://nowtoronto.com/news/trans-canada-pipeline-first-nations-bc/?fbclid=IwAR2xCv5UQJf4p7BtrKnZ8yzpGpEAeU9EJEHt_igDU9YRhWDlwpRt9UXD7qQ#) articles (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-at-the-core-of-the-wetsuweten-conflict-how-ultimately-should/)
 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 03, 2019, 10:31:36 AM

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

????? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?

Not sure expansion of the franchise went alongside respect for human rights in a linear fashion! Many bumps in that road, I say that as a Jew...


Do you think the Wet'suwet'en are suffering under the yoke of dictators? Were the RCMP acting as liberators? C'mon bruh... saying traditional chiefs are dictators, when they're the ones who've got the barrels pointed at them...

Anyways, Most of your questions can be answered by this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA1dihXTjBU).

Anyways

1.I don't know if the hereditary chiefs are considered to be dictators by the people they claim to represent or not since they don't have to face elections.

2.I don't know what the Supreme Court would say about hereditary chiefs these days. Since 1997 there has been a great deal of effort at reconciliation between indigenous peoples and British Columbia and the principle of representative elected band councils and chiefs seems to be generally accepted.  The indigenous people themselves also seem to clearly want elected representatives and not chiefs who claim some divine right.





Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: warandwar on February 03, 2019, 12:07:33 PM
I really don't know why you keep calling hereditary chiefs "divine right" dude - it's just not what they are...I was an anthropology major - give me some credit here! (it's true that they're not elected in the "every four years, vote in a designated place" sense, but they're chosen through consensus at potlachs and can be recalled...)

hereditary chiefs have authority over unceded traditional land, court precedent (and UNDRIP!) points to consulting w/ hereditary chiefs as well as band councils, and Trudeau's government has stated they want to move to consulting w/ First Nations on a "nation-to-nation" basis - aside from all of this - a militarized response was clearly inappropriate and brings back bad memories of Lake Gustafson and Oka...



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: 136or142 on February 03, 2019, 12:41:31 PM
I really don't know why you keep calling hereditary chiefs "divine right" dude - it's just not what they are...I was an anthropology major - give me some credit here! (it's true that they're not elected in the "every four years, vote in a designated place" sense, but they're chosen through consensus at potlachs and can be recalled...)

hereditary chiefs have authority over unceded traditional land, court precedent (and UNDRIP!) points to consulting w/ hereditary chiefs as well as band councils, and Trudeau's government has stated they want to move to consulting w/ First Nations on a "nation-to-nation" basis - aside from all of this - a militarized response was clearly inappropriate and brings back bad memories of Lake Gustafson and Oka...



1.Hereditary chiefdom is passed down as an heir: just like a king.

http://fngovernance.org/resources_docs/TraditionalGovernance_Wetsuweten2.pdf

2."Militarized response" i.e maintaining the rule of law. This is a situation of hereditary chiefs claiming to speak on behalf of an area of land who are responsible to nobody and who have therefore have no incentive to negotiate or otherwise act responsibly.  

It has certainly been shown to not be the case that these hereditary chiefs speak on behalf of even the majority of the people on the land.  One thing mentioned in that link is the 'father clan' vs the 'mother clan' and how the 'father clan' is favored.  There was a Supreme Court decision just a few years ago striking down the preferential treatment given to children of the male member of indigenous tribes when an indigenous person marries a non native.

https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1467227680166/1467227697623

With obviously recognizing the gross mistreatment indigenous people have received, that does not negate that indigenous people are not above nepotism, sexism or obstructionism among other negative things and that these things are more likely to occur when you have hereditary chiefs who, in fact, are no different than divine right kings.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Smid on February 06, 2019, 09:09:57 PM
I just read of Paul Dewar's passing, another life taken too soon by cancer. May he rest in peace. Thinking of his family at this terribly tough time for them.

Edit: If I recall correctly, EarlAW used to be active on his riding committee, and perhaps would care to share a memory or two with us.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 07, 2019, 07:24:48 PM
Trudeau under fire over claim he pressured justice minister to intervene in SNC-Lavalin fraud case (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-snc-lavalin-fraud-corruption-1.5009578)


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 12, 2019, 11:30:12 AM
Yuge: JWR resigns from Cabinet due to SNC. (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-wilson-raybould-resigns-from-trudeau-cabinet-in-wake-of-snc-lavalin/) Don Martin reported an emergency Cabinet meeting happening this afternoon.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DabbingSanta on February 12, 2019, 03:09:16 PM




Mad Max....... Why would you say this?? Not the right kind of attention the PPC needs.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Obama-Biden Democrat on February 12, 2019, 06:22:31 PM




Mad Max....... Why would you say this?? Not the right kind of attention the PPC needs.

High energy guy!


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on February 13, 2019, 06:39:28 AM
Trudeau under fire over claim he pressured justice minister to intervene in SNC-Lavalin fraud case (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-snc-lavalin-fraud-corruption-1.5009578)

He was pretty vehement in his denial so either it's true or he thinks they covered up enough of their tracks. If someone has a smoking gun, he's probably finished.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: mileslunn on February 13, 2019, 05:23:08 PM




Mad Max....... Why would you say this?? Not the right kind of attention the PPC needs.

He has no chance of winning, he wants to appeal to 5-10% of the population who are racists so he is going after that group.  I don't think his goal is to ever be PM, rather he is bitter he lost the Conservative leadership race and so wants to ensure Scheer never becomes PM thus laying a trap for him; stay moderate and risk a split on the right like the 90s, or move rightward to appeal to PPC supporters and scare away the key swing voters he needs to win.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 14, 2019, 12:26:10 PM
Trudeau under fire over claim he pressured justice minister to intervene in SNC-Lavalin fraud case (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-snc-lavalin-fraud-corruption-1.5009578)

He was pretty vehement in his denial so either it's true or he thinks they covered up enough of their tracks. If someone has a smoking gun, he's probably finished.

Yes, that is the $1,000,000 question.

Also, the scandal broke a week ago, and we still don't have any polls. Very irritating.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 17, 2019, 01:11:51 PM
First post scandal poll is out from Campaign Research (https://www.campaignresearch.ca/single-post/2019/02/13/Conservative-Party-has-a-clear-lead-over-the-Liberal-Party-just-8-months-out-from-the-electionurl)

Conservative: 37%
Liberal: 32%
NDP: 14%
Green: 7%
Bloc: 5%
People's: 3%

Large change from pre-scandal polling but not a major shift from the last Campaign Research poll, which had the Liberals and Tories statistically tied.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 19, 2019, 11:07:44 AM
Butts resigned yesterday.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lumine on February 27, 2019, 11:48:12 PM
It seems the minister who resigned dropped the bomb: Trudeau refuses to resign over claims officials interfered in bribery prosecution (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/27/canada-trudeau-snc-lavalin-jody-wilson-raybould).

Asking out of ignorance, can Trudeau survive without his government being crippled or could the pressure lead to his actual resignation/implosion?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2019, 05:54:18 AM
It seems the minister who resigned dropped the bomb: Trudeau refuses to resign over claims officials interfered in bribery prosecution (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/27/canada-trudeau-snc-lavalin-jody-wilson-raybould).

Asking out of ignorance, can Trudeau survive without his government being crippled or could the pressure lead to his actual resignation/implosion?

We're only eight months from a scheduled election, so I suspect he stays on. He has a majority in parliament and Canada doesn't have as much of a history parties of knifing their own leaders like say Australia.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on February 28, 2019, 06:42:38 AM
To add to my previous comment, the PM is in deep, deep trouble, and could still resign if things get bad enough. I still think he stays on until at least E-day. Time to wait and see.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on February 28, 2019, 04:03:01 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Suburbia on March 01, 2019, 02:04:47 PM
I think Trudeau will win another federal term as Prime Minister, or in Beltway/Westminster speak: The Liberal Party will win another term, or keep seats.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 04, 2019, 03:15:59 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 06, 2019, 06:12:04 PM
In non-Ottawa news.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 08, 2019, 07:08:21 PM
Celina Caesar-Chavannes expounds on her recent tweets. (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-liberal-mp-celina-caesar-chavannes-says-she-was-met-with-hostility/)


Title: The rise and fall of Justin Trudeau
Post by: Suburbia on March 11, 2019, 03:58:19 PM
What did the promising world leader do wrong?



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 15, 2019, 12:09:36 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 16, 2019, 08:59:33 AM
QC-prov Leger:  (https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2019/03/16/les-vieux-partis-seffondrent)44/21/15/15. Brutal poll for both PLQ and PQ. No one since Bouchard's won a majority of Francophones, while Grits only poll 10% among Francophones.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 18, 2019, 12:54:45 PM


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Continential on March 18, 2019, 03:42:58 PM
Why would anyone vote for the Greens? It's like the American Green Party which has a Stein cult but Canada has a May cult.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on March 18, 2019, 03:44:26 PM
Why would anyone vote for the Greens? It's like the American Green Party which has a Stein cult but Canada has a May cult.
From my understanding, neither of those statements are true.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on March 18, 2019, 04:15:31 PM
I think the conversation around what one might call "green values" is also a little bit different here than it is in the United States, though I might be wrong. Anthropogenic climate change is obviously worth discussion (and that's an understatement), but it seems like there are more shades of environmentalism here because of the deservedly big focus we're putting on Reconciliation with Indigenous people. It doesn't feel like Green Party politics in Canada is Al Gore's brand of climate action. It's deeply connected to place, history, stewardship, and interconnectedness between people and the "more-than-human world." Maybe I'm conflating politics with my own niche interests, but the CBC seems to dig into these issues a lot differently than the American media does, which I imagine does influence our national consciousness to conceptualize environmental issues just a little bit differently too.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: PSOL on March 18, 2019, 04:42:35 PM
Why would anyone vote for the Greens? It's like the American Green Party which has a Stein cult but Canada has a May cult.
From my understanding, neither of those statements are true.
The May cult is more true considering how long she has been leader. For the American Green Party, Jill Stein isn’t running again in 2020, signaling the end to her presidential runs and waning of her power in the party at-large. The American Green Party seems to be taken over by more eco-socialist and nonwhite members, as seen from the 2016 anti-Capitalist stance and Ajamu Bakur as the recent running mate.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Continential on March 18, 2019, 04:45:46 PM
Credit to T. Chopra
This can help anyone who doesn't know Canadian politics

Québec - Gouvernement Majoritaire du Coalition Avenir du Québec
Parti Liberal (Moderate Left-Wing)
Supporté par les Libéraux Fédéraux
Coalition Avenir du Québec (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supporté par les Conservateurs Fédéraux
Québec Solidaire (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supporté par le NPD Fédéraux
Parti Quebecois
Supporté par le Bloc Québécois


Ontario - Progressive Conservative Majority Government
Liberal Party (Moderate Left-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Liberals
Progressive Conservative Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP
Green Party (Environmentalist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal Greens


BC - New Democratic Party Coalition w/ the Green Party “Majority Government”
Liberal Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Moderate - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP
Green Party (Environmentalist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal Greens


Alberta - New Democratic Party Majority Government
United Conservative Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Moderate - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP
Many other smaller parties

Saskatchewan - Saskatchewan Party Majority Government
Saskatchewan Party (Conservative)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP


Manitoba - Progressive Conservative Majority Government
Progressive Conservative Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP
Manitoba Party (Libertarian - Right Wing)
No Federal Counterpart (perhaps in the future the PPC)
Liberal Party (Liberal - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal Liberals


Yukon - Liberal Majority Government
Liberal Party (Moderate Left-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Liberals
Yukon Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP


New Brunswick - PC & PA Coalition “Majority Government”
Liberal Party (Moderate Left-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Liberals
Progressive Conservative Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP
Green Party (Environmentalist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal Greens
People’s Alliance (Centre-Right)
No Federal Counterparts

Nova Scotia - Liberal Majority Government
Liberal Party (Moderate Left-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Liberals
Progressive Conservative Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP
Green Party (Environmentalist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal Greens


Prince Edward Island - Liberal Majority Government
Liberal Party (Moderate Left-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Liberals
Progressive Conservative Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
Green Party (Environmentalist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal Greens


Newfoundland & Labrador - Liberal Majority Government
Liberal Party (Moderate Left-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Liberals
Progressive Conservative Party (Moderate Right-Wing)
Supported by the Federal Conservatives
New Democratic Party (Socialist - Left Wing)
Supported by the Federal NDP


Nunavut & the Northwest Territories - Independent Governments
They elect Independent Members, these people have no public political affiliation (e.g. Green, PPC, NDP, Conservative, Liberal etc.)





Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: LabourJersey on March 20, 2019, 07:29:29 AM
Why are the BC Liberals supported by the Federal Tories? Is BC that much more left-leaning than the rest of Canada?

Also why is Saskatchewan the only province that has just two parties?


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Tintrlvr on March 20, 2019, 07:46:57 AM
Why are the BC Liberals supported by the Federal Tories? Is BC that much more left-leaning than the rest of Canada?

Also why is Saskatchewan the only province that has just two parties?

The BC Liberals are a purely center-right party. They are significantly to the right of the federal Liberals, though some more center-to-center-right federal Liberals are also BC Liberals. So it is natural that the BC Liberals have the support of many of the federal Conservatives and only more far-right federal Conservatives back the small and disorganized BC Conservatives, which are very far on the right. The BC NDP is a center-left party and includes some center-left federal Liberals in addition to federal NDPers.

Saskatchewan is currently the only province with only two parties represented in its legislature. There are, of course, other parties in Saskatchewan, including some that could theoretically win seats. A number of other provinces are effectively two-party provinces as well, though all have a least one member of a third party currently in office.



Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: DC Al Fine on March 20, 2019, 09:41:30 AM
That summary has a lot of errors and issues. E.g. Putting Quebec politics on a left-right spectrum alone doesn't make sense.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 20, 2019, 05:42:06 PM
I'm not used to seeing the Quebec Liberals being put on the left. Being a party concerned with the economy and on the side of business, it's ususally considered centre right on economics.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 20, 2019, 10:41:54 PM
On the provincial scene, Catherine Fournier quit the PQ caucus and that puts Québec Solidaire with more members in the assembly into second opposition role. The PQ has always people causing problems from the inside. 


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Lechasseur on March 21, 2019, 05:20:59 AM
That summary has a lot of errors and issues. E.g. Putting Quebec politics on a left-right spectrum alone doesn't make sense.

Yeah, in Quebec I think it's more about Federalists (Liberals) vs Nationalists (most of the other parties). The Quebec Liberals were even led by the former federal Progressive Conservative leader, Jean Charest, for a long time, and I think he was the last Liberal Premier of Quebec if I'm not wrong.

At anyrate if I lived in Quebec I'd be a Conservative voter at federal level but a Liberal voter at provincial level.


Title: Re: Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II
Post by: Poirot on March 21, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
Quote
nd I think he was the last Liberal Premier of Quebec if I'm not wrong.

He was not the last. Philippe Couillard was Premier from April 2014 through October 2018.