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Title: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 18, 2016, 02:12:06 PM () Hear ye! Hear ye! Having seen the adoption of the Articles addressing the Regions and the federal Congress, this Convention will now turn its attention to the Executive branch of the national government. As the old thread (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=220722.0) was basically four pages of Griffin and Windjammer arguing about who better understands the U.S. Constitution, I have decided to move debate here; this will make it easier to keep track of relevant proposals and information and will allow me to edit the title of this thread to announce votes and other procedural matters. I would remind the delegates that, by a previous principle vote, this Convention has determined to preserve the position of Vice President. This, to the best of my knowledge, is the only significant decision made in the previous thread. I now open the floor for debate. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on January 18, 2016, 05:32:06 PM I think that we should allow certain members of the executive branch to sit in Congress or in the Regional Legislatures. Probably the only roles that wouldn't be allowed to would be the President, Vice President and the Game Moderator.
I think this will make these roles easier to fill and reduce the amount of positions within the game. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 18, 2016, 05:50:56 PM I think that we should allow certain members of the executive branch to sit in Congress or in the Regional Legislatures. Probably the only roles that wouldn't be allowed to would be the President, Vice President and the Game Moderator. I think this will make these roles easier to fill and reduce the amount of positions within the game. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Lincoln Republican on January 18, 2016, 05:52:25 PM I would support having the Vice President elected separately from the President and being permitted to hold a cabinet position, if he would like to, and if nominated by the President.
This still provides for an immediate successor to the President should he resign or be impeached, as well as providing some meaningful responsibility while still serving as Vice President. The Vice President would still, of course, continue to cast any tie breaking votes in the Senate. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 18, 2016, 05:54:28 PM I would support having the Vice President elected separately from the President and being permitted to hold a cabinet position, if he would like to, and if nominated by the President. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Leinad on January 18, 2016, 09:44:46 PM I would support having the Vice President elected separately from the President and being permitted to hold a cabinet position, if he would like to, and if nominated by the President. That's a good idea. I'm undecided on the matter, myself, hopefully we can get some good debate going and both sides can make their case. I think it would help make the position more relevant, but I'm not sure by how much, and it sounds like something that could have unintended consequences. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Leinad on January 18, 2016, 09:53:11 PM As the old thread (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=220722.0) was basically four pages of Griffin and Windjammer arguing about who better understands the U.S. Constitution That old thread had slipped my mind, and I read through it thinking your description was hyperbole. It actually isn't. Anyway, let me bring back to life an idea Windjammer had: For the VP, Make him a senator. People would vote for a P/VP ticket, and the VP would basically be a senator being the first on the line of succession (maybe with some "additional stuff"). For example, a senate being represented by 2 senators for each region (for example, 1 elected at large, the other by the legislature), the VP being the 7th senator. Of course, he couldn't break the tie anymore. I guess there might be problems with that now that we already had votes on the legislative branch, but it's still food for thought at the very least. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Blair on January 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM The only issue of a Senator being VP, who's also elected is that he'd have a vote on impeachment
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 19, 2016, 11:55:28 AM I would remind everyone that the recently passed Congressional Article tasks the vice president with coordinating the two Houses of Congress; I don't think that's compatible with making him a member of one of those houses.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Lincoln Republican on January 19, 2016, 12:11:57 PM I would remind everyone that the recently passed Congressional Article tasks the vice president with coordinating the two Houses of Congress; I don't think that's compatible with making him a member of one of those houses. Agreed. That is why I say the Vice President could hold a cabinet post if he wants and providing the President wants to nominate him for cabinet. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 19, 2016, 08:14:30 PM Seeing no objection, I herby call a principle vote on the question of vice presidential elections. Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.
Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE on Electing the Vice President Question: Should the vice president be elected separately from the president? [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 19, 2016, 08:17:54 PM Thank you for acknowledging that the Vice President is in the executive branch! I will be engaging with this thread quite a bit obviously in the coming days.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 19, 2016, 08:19:53 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE on Electing the Vice President Question: Should the vice president be elected separately from the president? [ ] AYE [ X ] NAY [ ] Abstain I oppose this proposal for two reasons: first, the duties vested in the vice presidency are not great enough to merit a separate election; second, in the event that the president should be forced to vacate his office, it is best for his successor to come from within his Administration (so as to ensure that the mandate issued by the people in the last presidential election is upheld). By electing the vice president together with the president, we ensure that the vice president is also a recipient of that mandate, and therefore more likely to carry on the policies begun by his predecessor than if he were elected separately. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: windjammer on January 19, 2016, 08:29:14 PM No
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 19, 2016, 08:51:28 PM Since we apparently are not going to abolish the Vice Presidency or entertain the notion of the whole Prime Minister/VP and President concept I came up with (where the President can break ties in one chamber and the Prime Minister - or possibly VP - can break ties in another), then I don't see much of a purpose in separating these.
As-is and at least in one chamber, the President's chosen running mate (and therefore, an extension of the administration) will have the ability to break a vote in the administration's favor. I'm sure that otherwise, the VP role will continue to have a minimal day-to-day role in whatever the final text may be (based on these actions thus far), so I'll say: Nay Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Classic Conservative on January 19, 2016, 09:03:43 PM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: tmthforu94 on January 19, 2016, 09:04:16 PM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: VPH on January 19, 2016, 09:44:45 PM aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Lincoln Republican on January 20, 2016, 12:11:21 AM Aye
I am advocating for this convention to take a bold step forward, to look beyond the mundane and the ordinary, to think outside the box, to venture into new and courageous paths, and what do we get, nothing more than timid and feeble foot shuffling. But VPH, thank you for showing courage. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 20, 2016, 12:21:12 AM PRINCIPLE VOTE on Electing the Vice President Question: Should the vice president be elected separately from the president? [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain I can see arguments in both directions here, but I think with the task of coordinating the houses, having it as a seperate election might be slightly more appropriate than the present status quo because they would be judged on their own performance. However, I can appreciate the Presidential successor being of liked mind concern as well. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Blair on January 20, 2016, 07:43:44 AM Nay,
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: bore on January 20, 2016, 09:41:11 AM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on January 20, 2016, 10:23:30 AM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on January 20, 2016, 10:31:54 AM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: NeverAgain on January 20, 2016, 05:59:44 PM Nay. I agree with Senator Truman's dissent, but I also think that the President and the VP must be able to work together and having a possible partisanship issue in the executive office would not bode well for Atlasia.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Associate Justice PiT on January 20, 2016, 06:19:07 PM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Prince of Salem on January 20, 2016, 09:53:49 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE on Electing the Vice President Question: Should the vice president be elected separately from the president? [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [X] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Senator Cris on January 21, 2016, 03:55:48 PM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: MadmanMotley on January 21, 2016, 04:25:37 PM Nay
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 21, 2016, 09:39:00 PM By a vote of 3 Ayes, 13 Nays, one Abstention, and with six delegates not voting, this question has FAILED.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 24, 2016, 02:25:27 PM I think we need to clarify just what exactly the Vice President's role will be in the tie-breaking situation. Before we know this, we can't really proceed with determining how ties will be broken in the other chamber (although technically, we could allow the VP to break the tie in both chambers). The VP could also have no tie-breaking ability, however, it wouldn't make much sense to have kept this position and not give it tie-breaking power somewhere (not to mention that we'd need to devise potentially two new ways to break ties: either one person in each chamber, or one for both chambers).
Possible options:
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: NeverAgain on January 24, 2016, 03:15:20 PM I think we need to clarify just what exactly the Vice President's role will be in the tie-breaking situation. Before we know this, we can't really proceed with determining how ties will be broken in the other chamber (although technically, we could allow the VP to break the tie in both chambers). The VP could also have no tie-breaking ability, however, it wouldn't make much sense to have kept this position and not give it tie-breaking power somewhere (not to mention that we'd need to devise potentially two new ways to break ties: either one person in each chamber, or one for both chambers). Possible options:
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 24, 2016, 05:25:05 PM In fact, the Convention has already addressed this matter:
ARTICLE [TBD] Section 1 (The Legislature)i. All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia, which shall consist of a Senate and a House of Representatives. ii. The Vice President shall be the President of the Congress, but shall have no vote in the House of Representatives, nor in the Senate save when they be equally divided. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on January 24, 2016, 05:32:19 PM As that's already been settled, is there any other responsibilities that could be designated to the VP? I feel that the VP should have more power than just breaking ties in Congress, but I'm not really sure what powers could be given to the VP.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 24, 2016, 05:46:02 PM Then I would say that the next item should be the discussion as to whether or not the Vice President can hold an additional cabinet position (or elected position, for that matter), unless it's believed superior to discuss this as part of broader package on simultaneous officeholding later. I can see merits in explicitly outlining this in the executive branch of the document, as well as merely covering it as part of cabinet positions and dual officeholding.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 24, 2016, 08:08:22 PM Then I would say that the next item should be the discussion as to whether or not the Vice President can hold an additional cabinet position (or elected position, for that matter), unless it's believed superior to discuss this as part of broader package on simultaneous officeholding later. I can see merits in explicitly outlining this in the executive branch of the document, as well as merely covering it as part of cabinet positions and dual officeholding. As that's already been settled, is there any other responsibilities that could be designated to the VP? I feel that the VP should have more power than just breaking ties in Congress, but I'm not really sure what powers could be given to the VP. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Talleyrand on January 24, 2016, 08:20:27 PM The Vice President is already allowed to be part of the Cabinet and we've had many instances of that happening in the past, including Vice Presidents serving as Attorney General and Secretary of External Affairs. That hasn't made the office "significantly more consequential".
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 25, 2016, 02:40:14 AM However, the merits of it aside from that do stand to give it some justification for its continuing. In real life, the VP is often tasked with certain areas of focus or responsibility. Such is not possible in the same way as it occurs in real life, but this arrangement is a feasible substitute.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 26, 2016, 11:17:53 AM Are we in agreement that the presidential term should last four months (as it does now)? If so, we will begin debate on the powers to be held by the executive.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on January 26, 2016, 11:52:23 AM Are we in agreement that the presidential term should last four months (as it does now)? If so, we will begin debate on the powers to be held by the executive. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Blair on January 26, 2016, 01:06:25 PM I'd rather have term limits of two terms, or simply have no limit. I fear with a cooling off period we'd see a situation like Russia where someone becomes President for 2 terms, resigns to the Senate and then becomes President again
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 26, 2016, 04:09:54 PM Personally, I've never liked the idea of term limits for any office. If I recall correctly, term limits were not around in the original iteration of Atlasia (could totally be wrong about this). Nobody has ever served more than two elected terms as President. Let me be the first to tell you: there's a reason for that! Hell, bore was the first two-term Laborite (who was the 4th elected Laborite to the office); all of the others couldn't handle the chronic abuse - and I don't blame them, based on what I knew they were experiencing.
If someone - god forbid - can handle the office for more than two terms and the public at-large is willing to give them that opportunity, then I personally think that they deserve it. I just don't think anyone would ever be willing to do so. As it stands currently, people who served two consecutive terms can run again just a few months later if they so desire - we don't see that happening, which kind of proves my point. The only reason we have term limits is because a lot of people have a desire to make the game look like the RL US way too much. I also think that 4-month terms are perfectly fine. If someone has to run for President every 2 months, then you might as well just slap a one-term limit on that - can you imagine having to campaign for this office every 2 months? I doubt anyone would do it. You might also lower turnout through such a concept - presidential elections would then become a lot "cheaper". I can't fathom any legitimate argument that seeks to make the term longer than 4 months. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 26, 2016, 04:24:46 PM I agree with Griffin - especially considering how hard it has been to find keep the government fully staffed of late, I don't see the rationale of barring people from running for office if they have the desire and support to do so. Of the last six presidents (not counting Tyrion), barely 50% have chosen to seek reelection, so I doubt that the prospect of an "eternal president" is much of a threat.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Associate Justice PiT on January 27, 2016, 02:30:51 PM Going off of what President Griffin said, it's a stressful job here much as it is in real life. Look at Obama or Bush or any other President towards the end of an eight-year tenure and they look pretty run down. It took the United States 150 years to see a President go past two terms, and even without the 22nd Amendment I doubt we would ever see another one.
Even if we consider the possibility of it happening in Atlasia a problem, the odds of anyone putting themselves through that punishment willingly are rather low. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 27, 2016, 06:20:00 PM Should we have a mere principle vote on this, or what? Compared to the current Constitution, we'd be voting to either omit a restriction in the new document versus keeping it, so that seems that a simple enough of a vote. Perhaps we'll need 2 votes alongside each other - one for the term length and one for the number of terms - to get it all done at once. Then we can craft the actual text for one or both items.
I offer the following for consideration as a principle vote: Quote Number of terms a President may serve: [ ] The office of President shall be limited to one term. [ ] The office of President shall be limited to two terms. [ ] The office of President shall have no term limits. The duration of a presidential term: [ ] The term of a President shall be approximately two months in length. [ ] The term of a President shall be approximately four months in length. [ ] The term of a President shall be approximately six months in length. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on January 27, 2016, 06:27:21 PM I'm proposing a slight amendment to Griffin's principle vote idea - purely adding an option to increase the number of terms, while still keeping a term limit.
Quote Number of terms a President may serve: [ ] The office of President shall be limited to one term. [ ] The office of President shall be limited to two terms. [ ] The office of President shall be limited to three terms. [ ] The office of President shall have no term limits. The duration of a presidential term: [ ] The term of a President shall be approximately two months in length. [ ] The term of a President shall be approximately four months in length. [ ] The term of a President shall be approximately six months in length. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 27, 2016, 06:28:22 PM I'll withdraw my original amendment and allow Clyde's to stand as its replacement.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 27, 2016, 07:07:16 PM Very well, we will now begin a principle vote on the length of presidential terms and the question of term limits. Delegates should rank the following options in order of preference. Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.
NOTE on Question 2: As Griffin/Clyde's proposal did not state whether we were voting on a lifetime term limit (as exists in the real life US) or a limit on consecutive terms only (as exists in Atlasia today), I have broken Question 2 into two parts. In Question 2a, you are given three choices: the first option would place a lifetime term limit on the presidency (i.e. two terms and then you're done forever); the second option would place a limit on consecutive terms (i.e. after you've served two terms, you have to wait one term before you can run again); the third option would eliminate term limits entirely. In Question 2b, you are being asked to pick the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president in the event that a term limit is set. You should vote on Question 2b EVEN IF you voted "No" on Question 2a. Obviously, if a majority votes "No" on 2a, the results of 2b will be discarded. I apologize if this was already obvious, but considering the confusion that has surrounded past principle votes, I wanted to be extra careful. Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ ] Two (2) Months [ ] Four (4) Months [ ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ ] Yes [ ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ ] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [ ] One (2) term [ ] Two (2) terms [ ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 27, 2016, 07:09:04 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ 3 ] Two (2) Months [ 1 ] Four (4) Months [ 2 ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ ] Yes [ ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ 1 ] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [ 2 ] One (2) term [ 1 ] Two (2) terms [ 3 ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Adam Griffin on January 27, 2016, 07:10:31 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [3] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [2] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [2] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [1] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (2) term [2] Two (2) terms [1] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: NeverAgain on January 27, 2016, 07:20:46 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ ] Two (2) Months [ 1 ] Four (4) Months [ ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ ] Yes [ ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ 1 ] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [ ] One (2) term [ 1 ] Two (2) terms [ ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Blair on January 27, 2016, 07:23:59 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ 3 ] Two (2) Months [ 1 ] Four (4) Months [ 2 ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ 2 ] Yes [ 3 ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ 1] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3 ] One (2) term [ 1] Two (2) terms [ 2 ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Classic Conservative on January 27, 2016, 07:24:39 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ ] Two (2) Months [ 1 ] Four (4) Months [ ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ 2 ] Yes [ ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ 1 ] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [ ] One (2) term [ 1 ] Two (2) terms [ ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: VPH on January 27, 2016, 07:28:26 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ 3 ] Two (2) Months [ 1 ] Four (4) Months [ 2 ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ 3 ] Yes [ 1 ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ 2 ] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [ 3 ] One (2) term [ 1 ] Two (2) terms [ 2 ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on January 27, 2016, 07:30:41 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [3] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [2] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [2] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [1] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (2) term [1] Two (2) terms [2] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Lincoln Republican on January 28, 2016, 12:13:53 AM PRINCIPLE VOTE
Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ 2 ] Two (2) Months [ 1 ] Four (4) Months [ 3 ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ 1] Yes [ ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ ] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [ ] One (2) term [1 ] Two (2) terms [ ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Leinad on January 28, 2016, 12:31:42 AM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [2] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [3] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [1] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [2] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (1) term [2] Two (2) terms [1] Three (3) terms On 2a, I'm against term limits for most offices, although I see the wisdom of allowing a limit on consecutive Presidential terms. But I would prefer 3 (a year) over 2, as it is now. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: tmthforu94 on January 28, 2016, 01:36:33 AM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [2] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [3] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [2] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [1] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (1) term [1] Two (2) terms [2] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: ilikeverin on January 28, 2016, 08:18:32 AM Question 1: How long should each presidential term last?
[3] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [2] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [2] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [1] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (1) term [2] Two (2) terms [1] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Associate Justice PiT on January 28, 2016, 04:16:54 PM Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [3] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [2] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [1] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [2] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (2) term [2] Two (2) terms [1] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: bore on January 28, 2016, 04:20:52 PM Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [3] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [2] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [2] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [1] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (1) term [2] Two (2) terms [1] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Prince of Salem on January 28, 2016, 05:16:15 PM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [2] Two (2) Months [1] Four (4) Months [3] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [3] Yes [1] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [2] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [3] One (2) term [1] Two (2) terms [2] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: / on January 29, 2016, 09:03:51 AM Quote PRINCIPLE VOTE Question 1: How long should each presidential term last? [ 1 ] Two (2) Months [ 2 ] Four (4) Months [ 3 ] Six (6) Months Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? [ 3 ] Yes [ 2 ] Yes, but the limit should only apply to consecutive terms [ 1 ] No Question 2b: If Question 2a passes, what is the maximum number of terms a person should be able to serve as president? [ 3 ] One (2) term [ 2 ] Two (2) terms [ 1 ] Three (3) terms Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 29, 2016, 10:32:26 PM RESULTS - Question 1: How long should each presidential term last?
Four Months (14) Two Months (1) RESULTS - Question 2a: Should there be a limit on the number of terms a person may serve as president? No (10) Yes, but... (4) Yes (1) Question 2a having been resolved in the negative, the results of the vote on Question 2b are discarded. So there you have it, folks: the new Constitution will provide for a four month presidential term, renewable indefinitely. Tomorrow, we will begin debate on the powers to be vested in this office. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 30, 2016, 07:54:45 PM We will now begin debating the powers of the executive branch. Delegates have 72 hours to propose any and all powers they feel should be held by the president. Once the 72 hours are up, I will call a principle vote on the matter; those powers that are approved by a majority of the voting delegates will be included in the final draft of the Constitution. (For an example of how this will work, see the previous debate (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=220721.msg4784636#msg4784636) on Congressional powers.)
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on January 30, 2016, 08:27:14 PM The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.
The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit. The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Leinad on January 30, 2016, 08:49:30 PM We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Lincoln Republican on January 30, 2016, 09:16:27 PM 1. The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present. 2. The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. 3. The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit. 4. The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval. Point 1, I agree with Leinad. We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous. Point 2, Agreed. Point 3, Do not agree. This must be subject to debate in the Senate and to Senate confirmation. On this issue, it is absolutely necessary to have a system of checks and balances in place. Point 4, Agreed. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Blair on January 31, 2016, 07:27:50 AM The President should have the ability to create his own cabinet positions; look at what happened recently with the recent changes. We had the rather stupid case back when I was home affairs secretary where I wouldn't have been able to represent the state in the Supreme Court because the Senate had decided to create a solicitor General.
The President is already constrained in Atlasia; let's at least give him the freedom to appoint those around him (subject to Senate approval) Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on January 31, 2016, 11:30:54 AM I would note that, per the previous vote on Congressional powers, all presidential nominations for the cabinet/Supreme Court are subject to Congressional approval. I agree that the president should have control over the structure of the cabinet.
• To establish such executive departments as may be necessary • To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate • To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate • To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress • To exercise a line-item veto over the budget • To issue pardons for crimes committed under federal law; but the President may not pardon himself nor overturn the result of a trial of impeachment • To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant • To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia • To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on February 01, 2016, 01:03:39 PM 1. The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present. 2. The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. 3. The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit. 4. The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval. Point 1, I agree with Leinad. We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous. Point 2, Agreed. Point 3, Do not agree. This must be subject to debate in the Senate and to Senate confirmation. On this issue, it is absolutely necessary to have a system of checks and balances in place. Point 4, Agreed. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on February 01, 2016, 05:35:05 PM I just wish that more of us had a little bit of creativity and dreaming potential here. Notions such as "separation of powers" in a game is not a life or death situation. We are trying to create a new and fun environment, guys: everything doesn't have to be chained to the United States Constitution (and if it is, then *yawn*, it's just going to be more of the same).
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Leinad on February 02, 2016, 03:16:50 PM 1. The President should have the ability to grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present. 2. The President should have the ability to introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. 3. The President should have the ability to appoint cabinet members, and to create cabinet-level offices as he/she sees fit. 4. The President should have the ability to appoint individuals to the Supreme Court, subject to Senate approval. Point 1, I agree with Leinad. We should put some safeguard on the pardoning system, if not scrap it altogether. Letting the president pardon someone unilaterally is dangerous. Point 2, Agreed. Point 3, Do not agree. This must be subject to debate in the Senate and to Senate confirmation. On this issue, it is absolutely necessary to have a system of checks and balances in place. Point 4, Agreed. Indeed. I introduced that as an amendment in the Senate several months ago, but it was voted down because apparently it would dramatically reduce the President's role to require confirmation of pardons. I just wish that more of us had a little bit of creativity and dreaming potential here. Notions such as "separation of powers" in a game is not a life or death situation. We are trying to create a new and fun environment, guys: everything doesn't have to be chained to the United States Constitution (and if it is, then *yawn*, it's just going to be more of the same). I get your point and kind of agree, but the pardon system in particular could have consequences. A rogue president is possible, and allowing said rogue president to unilaterally bring back people who were rightfully banned could have harsh consequences. We should have a principle vote like this: Quote from: Leinad's Proposed Principle Vote on Pardons Principle Vote How should we handle pardons? [ ] President can unilaterally pardon people under the current rules (not him/herself, and not overturning impeachment) [ ] President can pardon people under the current rules, but the Senate needs to approve it [ ] President can pardon people under the current rules, but the both houses of Congress need to approve it [ ] President can pardon people under the current rules, but the a house of Congress needs to approve it [ ] Senate can pardon people under the current rules, but it could be vetoed by the President like a normal bill [ ] Congress can pardon people under the current rules, but it could be vetoed by the President like a normal bill [ ] Senate can unilaterally pardon people under the current rules [ ] Congress can unilaterally pardon people under the current rules Okay, maybe 8 options is a bit pedantic. I've never claimed to not be. Truman can re-word this however he likes--it's more his wheelhouse than mine. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 02, 2016, 04:48:27 PM I think it would be more efficient to have a simple up-or-down vote on the pardoning power, and then consider additional restrictions afterwards (much as we did with the secession issue, minus the weeks of dithering over identical amendments). I have my own thoughts on the advisability (or lack thereof) of weakening executive authority, but I'll save that until after the vote.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 02, 2016, 08:34:33 PM We will now begin a principle vote on the powers of the presidency. Please vote AYE, NAY, or Abstain on each of the following ten (10) questions (except #3, where you are asked to choose between two options). Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.
NOTE: Several delegates have expressed support for restricting the president's ability to issue pardons. Because this is a complicated issue not really suited for a principle vote (which is designed primarily for 'yes or no' questions), I have decided to kick the can down the road until after the current vote. As a result, Question 1 on the below ballot only asks whether you think the president should be able to issue pardons. If your answer to Question 1 is "Yes, but [insert restriction here], you should still vote AYE on Question 1 - we will discuss possible restrictions at a later date. OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: / on February 02, 2016, 09:00:58 PM Quote OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ X ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: VPH on February 02, 2016, 10:20:01 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ x ] To appoint the cabinet [ ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ ] AYE [ x ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: NeverAgain on February 02, 2016, 10:53:44 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ X ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: tmthforu94 on February 02, 2016, 10:54:07 PM Voting Aye on everything. Keep the office strong!
OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [X] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Lincoln Republican on February 02, 2016, 11:22:13 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [X] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Leinad on February 03, 2016, 01:16:59 AM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present. [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ X ] Abstain 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ X ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ X ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Thoughts: 1 - We need to reform the pardoning system. I'd like to see it restricted by the Senate/Congress, but if not I'd rather it go to the Congress than be a unilateral power of the President. So it's hard for me to say either Aye or Nay on this one. 5 - I'd like another option: to establish executive departments as necessary with the advice and consent of the Senate. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: MadmanMotley on February 03, 2016, 01:46:02 AM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [X] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ ] AYE [ X ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ ] AYE [X] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: ilikeverin on February 03, 2016, 10:27:35 AM 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.*
[X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ ] AYE [X] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [X] To appoint the cabinet [ ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ ] AYE [X] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ ] AYE [X] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Blair on February 03, 2016, 10:52:04 AM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ X ] To appoint the cabinet [ ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Senator Cris on February 03, 2016, 11:24:17 AM OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [X] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on February 03, 2016, 01:09:59 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ X ] To appoint the cabinet [ ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 03, 2016, 03:59:43 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ ] AYE [ X ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [X] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ X] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain On Executive departments I recommend an advise and consent vote from both houses. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Adam Griffin on February 03, 2016, 04:32:45 PM Quote OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [X] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate.
3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet
4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate
5. To establish executive departments as necessary
6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress
7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget
8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant
9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia
10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: bore on February 03, 2016, 05:10:30 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ ] AYE [ X ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ X ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ ] AYE [ X ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 03, 2016, 08:16:30 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ X ] To appoint the cabinet [ ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on February 04, 2016, 12:11:02 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ X ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Classic Conservative on February 04, 2016, 02:10:37 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ ] AYE [ ] NAY [ X ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ X ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ ] AYE [ X ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on February 04, 2016, 07:12:24 PM OFFICIAL BALLOT Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present.* [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain *NOTE: We will discuss possible restrictions on this power at a later date. 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. [ ] AYE [ X ] NAY [ ] Abstain 3. (Pick one) [ ] To appoint the cabinet [ X ] To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate [ ] NOTA 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate [ X ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 5. To establish executive departments as necessary [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate [ x ] AYE [ ] NAY [ ] Abstain Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 04, 2016, 08:15:49 PM RESULTS Principle Vote on Presidential Powers The President shall have the power... 1. To grant reprieves and pardon individuals of crimes past and present. PASSED (16 Ayes, 0 Nays, 2 Abstentions) 2. To introduce legislation into the queue of the Senate. PASSED (14 Ayes, 4 Nays, 0 Abstentions) 3. (Pick one) To appoint the cabinet (5) To appoint the cabinet with the advice and consent of the Senate (13) PASSED NOTA (0) 4. To appoint the justices of the Supreme Court with the advice and consent of the Senate PASSED (18 Ayes, 0 Nays, 0 Abstentions) 5. To establish executive departments as necessary PASSED (12 Ayes, 4 Nays, 2 Abstentions) 6. To veto acts of legislation passed by Congress PASSED (18 Ayes, 0 Nays, 0 Abstentions) 7. To exercise a line-item veto over the budget PASSED (15 Ayes, 3 Nays, 0 Abstentions) 8. To appoint the vice president in the event that the office falls vacant PASSED (18 Ayes, 0 Nays, 0 Abstentions) 9. To command the armed forces of the Republic of Atlasia PASSED (18 Ayes, 0 Nays, 0 Abstentions) 10. To make treaties with the advise and consent of the Senate PASSED (18 Ayes, 0 Nays, 0 Abstentions) Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 05, 2016, 04:37:06 PM I offer the following amendment:
Quote ARTICLE [TBD] Section 1 (The Executive) i. The executive power shall be vested in the President of the Republic of Atlasia. He shall hold his office for a term of four months, together with a Vice President chosen for the same term. ii. Elections for President shall be held in the months of February, June, and October, in accordance with the measures prescribed by the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia. Each candidate for President shall run jointly with a candidate for Vice President, with whom his name shall appear jointly on the ballot. A vote for a candidate for President shall be considered a vote for the candidate for Vice President whose name appears on the ballot with the presidential candidate, and accordingly the candidate for Vice President whose name appears on the ballot with the successful candidate for President shall be elected. iii. No person shall be President or Vice President who has not attained 500 or more posts, nor whose account is not at least 4,320 hours old, nor is not a citizen of the Republic of Atlasia. iv. Upon the commencement of his term in office, the President shall swear the following oath: "I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the Republic of Atlasia, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia." Section 2 (Powers) i. The President shall have the power, except where limited elsewhere by this Constitution, to grant reprieves and pardons for crimes committed under the laws of the Republic of Atlasia; to introduce legislation into the queue of the Congress; to appoint, with the advice and consent of the Senate, the Justices of the Supreme Court; to establish such executive departments as may be necessary for the execution of the laws, and to appoint their principle officers with the advice and consent of the Senate; to veto acts of Congressional legislation, and to exercise a line-item veto over the budget; to appoint the vice president in the event of a vacancy in that office; to serve as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Atlasia; and to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate. Section 3 (The Vice Presidency) i. Whenever the office of President shall fall vacant, by reason of the death, impeachment, or resignation of the occupant, the Vice President shall become President. ii. Whenever the President shall submit his written declaration to the presiding officer of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he shall submit a declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties will be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President. iii. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of the principle officers of the executive departments shall submit their written declaration to the presiding officer of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, such powers and duties will be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President until such time as the President should submit his declaration to the contrary. Section 4 (Impeachment) i. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia, shall be removed from office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Delegates have 24 hours to object to Truman's amendment. HOWEVER, because it will be much easier to adopt this amendment and then make changes as necessary that it would be to reject this text and then start again from scratch, I respectfully ask that you refrain from objecting to this amendment. This is by no means a final text nor is it intended to settle every question before us: rather, my objective was to incorporate the changes made by the last several principle votes and to carry over those provisions of the current Constitution relating to the absence or removal of the President (Section 3). Once/if this amendment has been adopted, we will proceed with a debate on the pardoning power. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Amendment Offered Post by: Adam Griffin on February 05, 2016, 04:50:52 PM I'm surprised everything passed. Glad to see it!
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Amendment Offered Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 05, 2016, 04:56:52 PM I'm surprised everything passed. Glad to see it! Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Amendment Offered Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 07, 2016, 12:55:11 PM Seeing no objection, Truman's amendment has been adopted.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Amendment Offered Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on February 08, 2016, 02:31:30 AM I'm surprised everything passed. Glad to see it! 5 is already done, with exceptions for DOJ (and presumably its successors) and DoFE. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 08, 2016, 09:07:56 PM Time for amendments! The current text of this Article can be found here (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=226646.msg4895108#msg4895108); it is the responsibility of every delegate to read through this text and decide what (if any) changes need to be made before we move to a final vote. Prior to the last principle vote, some delegates have proposed placing restraints on the pardoning power: if y'all still think that's a good idea, now is the time to come forward.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) PRINCIPLE VOTE Post by: Leinad on February 10, 2016, 05:57:27 AM Quote from: Leinad Amendment on Pardons ARTICLE [TBD] Section 2 (Powers) i. The President shall have the power, except where limited elsewhere by this Constitution, to grant reprieves and pardons for crimes committed under the laws of the Republic of Atlasia, unless both Houses of Congress overturn it with two-thirds majorities; to introduce legislation into the queue of the Congress; to appoint, with the advice and consent of the Senate, the Justices of the Supreme Court; to establish such executive departments as may be necessary for the execution of the laws, and to appoint their principle officers with the advice and consent of the Senate; to veto acts of Congressional legislation, and to exercise a line-item veto over the budget; to appoint the vice president in the event of a vacancy in that office; to serve as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Atlasia; and to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate. I can change the wording, the number (i.e. it could be three-fourths, simple majority, or whatever--but I think two thirds is the sweet spot), or what houses (i.e. it could be just the Senate if you want). But the point is that it needs to have some Senate oversight. To any skeptics who use this line of attack, this will NOT rob the Presidency of relevance. Why would I want to hurt the office of the Presidency, guys? It's simply a break-glass-if-needed measure. Here's the thread we had six months ago when I first introduced an amendment like this: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=217360.0 It should be a good resource to get the key talking points out of the way, although I hope we'll come to a different conclusion. I'll just repost the key nugget of the debate: With such a large majority required it would only be used when the president is ineffective (inactive, going crazy, etc). I approve of this restraint on the executive. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 10, 2016, 07:54:40 PM Delegates have 24 hours to object to Leinad's amendment.
For reference, the new Congress will consist of a 6-member Senate and a 9-member House, so a 2/3 would require the assent of 4 senators and 6 representatives. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Leinad on February 10, 2016, 08:29:50 PM Delegates have 24 hours to object to Leinad's amendment. 24 hours from when I introduced it to when you announced the start of the 24 hours? Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 10, 2016, 11:56:22 PM Delegates have 24 hours to object to Leinad's amendment. 24 hours from when I introduced it to when you announced the start of the 24 hours? EDIT: So, the latter. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on February 11, 2016, 07:19:11 PM I want to object as a matter of principle, but I won't for fear of slowing down the ConCon and recognizing that it would be unlikely that such a scenario would occur.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 11, 2016, 07:58:24 PM Seeing no objection, Leinad's amendment has been adopted.
Are there any other amendments? Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 14, 2016, 03:19:35 PM I offer the following amendment:
Quote ARTICLE [TBD] Section 1 (The Executive) i. The executive power shall be vested in the President of the Republic of Atlasia. He shall hold his office for a term of four months, together with a Vice President chosen for the same term. ii. Elections for President shall be held in the months of February, June, and October, in accordance with the measures prescribed by the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia. Each candidate for President shall run jointly with a candidate for Vice President, with whom his name shall appear jointly on the ballot. A vote for a candidate for President shall be considered a vote for the candidate for Vice President whose name appears on the ballot with the presidential candidate, and accordingly the candidate for Vice President whose name appears on the ballot with the successful candidate for President shall be elected. iii. No person shall be President or Vice President who has not attained 500 or more posts, nor whose account is not at least 4,320 hours old, nor is not a citizen of the Republic of Atlasia. iv. Upon the commencement of his term in office, the President shall swear the following oath: "I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the Republic of Atlasia, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia." Section 2 (Powers) i. The President shall have the power, except where limited elsewhere by this Constitution, to grant reprieves and pardons for crimes committed under the laws of the Republic of Atlasia, to introduce legislation into the queue of the Congress; to appoint, with the advice and consent of the Senate, the Justices of the Supreme Court; to establish such executive departments as may be necessary for the execution of the laws, and to appoint their principle officers with the advice and consent of the Senate; to veto acts of Congressional legislation, and to exercise a line-item veto over the budget; to appoint the vice president in the event of a vacancy in that office; to serve as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Atlasia; and to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate. Section 3 (The Vice Presidency) i. Whenever the office of President shall fall vacant, by reason of the death, impeachment, or resignation of the occupant, the Vice President shall become President. ii. Whenever the President shall submit his written declaration to the presiding officer of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he shall submit a declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties will be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President. iii. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of the principle officers of the executive departments shall submit their written declaration to the presiding officer of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, such powers and duties will be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President until such time as the President should submit his declaration to the contrary. Section 4 (Impeachment) i. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia, shall be removed from office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. I just realized that the Legislative Article does not use the term "Houses of Congress" to describe the national legislature; therefore, this changes the text of Leinad's amendment to explicitly name the Senate and the HoR (both for the sake of consistency and to eliminate any possible loopholes). It does not alter the effect of this clause. Delegates have 24 hours to object. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 14, 2016, 03:32:08 PM Also, I should note that I will likely call a final vote on this Article around the middle of next week if there is no further debate in this thread. If you have any changes you want to see made, say so immediately - I will not be sympathetic towards delegates who remain silent during debate and then complain when we move to a vote because 'pet issue X' hasn't been considered yet".
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on February 14, 2016, 10:16:05 PM I have no objections in moving toward a final vote.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on February 15, 2016, 03:18:59 PM I have no objections in moving toward a final vote. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 15, 2016, 04:10:18 PM Seeing no objection, Truman's Amendment has been adopted.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 16, 2016, 07:05:18 PM Seeing no further debate, I motion for a final vote on this Article. Delegates have 24 Hours to object.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Senator Cris on February 17, 2016, 10:28:37 AM I have no objections in moving toward a final vote. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 17, 2016, 07:59:43 PM Seeing no objection, a FINAL VOTE is now open on this Article. Please vote AYE, NAY, or Abstain. Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.
Quote ARTICLE [TBD] Section 1 (The Executive) i. The executive power shall be vested in the President of the Republic of Atlasia. He shall hold his office for a term of four months, together with a Vice President chosen for the same term. ii. Elections for President shall be held in the months of February, June, and October, in accordance with the measures prescribed by the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia. Each candidate for President shall run jointly with a candidate for Vice President, with whom his name shall appear jointly on the ballot. A vote for a candidate for President shall be considered a vote for the candidate for Vice President whose name appears on the ballot with the presidential candidate, and accordingly the candidate for Vice President whose name appears on the ballot with the successful candidate for President shall be elected. iii. No person shall be President or Vice President who has not attained 500 or more posts, nor whose account is not at least 4,320 hours old, nor is not a citizen of the Republic of Atlasia. iv. Upon the commencement of his term in office, the President shall swear the following oath: "I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the Republic of Atlasia, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia." Section 2 (Powers) i. The President shall have the power, except where limited elsewhere by this Constitution, to grant reprieves and pardons for crimes committed under the laws of the Republic of Atlasia, but Congress may rescind such pardons by a 2/3 vote of the Senate and the House of Representatives; to introduce legislation into the queue of the Congress; to appoint, with the advice and consent of the Senate, the Justices of the Supreme Court; to establish such executive departments as may be necessary for the execution of the laws, and to appoint their principle officers with the advice and consent of the Senate; to veto acts of Congressional legislation, and to exercise a line-item veto over the budget; to appoint the vice president in the event of a vacancy in that office; to serve as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Atlasia; and to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate. Section 3 (The Vice Presidency) i. Whenever the office of President shall fall vacant, by reason of the death, impeachment, or resignation of the occupant, the Vice President shall become President. ii. Whenever the President shall submit his written declaration to the presiding officer of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he shall submit a declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties will be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President. iii. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of the principle officers of the executive departments shall submit their written declaration to the presiding officer of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, such powers and duties will be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President until such time as the President should submit his declaration to the contrary. Section 4 (Impeachment) i. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia, shall be removed from office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: / on February 17, 2016, 08:16:12 PM AYE
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Classic Conservative on February 17, 2016, 08:33:02 PM AYE
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Former Lincoln Assemblyman & Lt. Gov. RGN on February 17, 2016, 08:35:00 PM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: NeverAgain on February 17, 2016, 08:49:44 PM Aye.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Clyde1998 on February 17, 2016, 09:12:12 PM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Prince of Salem on February 17, 2016, 09:42:51 PM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 17, 2016, 10:16:24 PM AYE!
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Leinad on February 17, 2016, 10:20:00 PM AYE!
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: tmthforu94 on February 17, 2016, 11:49:17 PM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Adam Griffin on February 18, 2016, 12:04:51 AM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Lincoln Republican on February 18, 2016, 12:26:36 AM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: pikachu on February 18, 2016, 04:35:28 AM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Blair on February 18, 2016, 06:13:46 AM aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: ilikeverin on February 18, 2016, 09:32:24 AM ;D
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Associate Justice PiT on February 18, 2016, 05:08:15 PM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 18, 2016, 09:50:19 PM Nay on Unilateral creation of cabinet positions. Aye on everything else. Let my vote be reflected as such.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 18, 2016, 09:56:52 PM Nay on Unilateral creation of cabinet positions. Aye on everything else. Let my vote be reflected as such. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: MadmanMotley on February 18, 2016, 11:08:01 PM Aye.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: bore on February 19, 2016, 09:58:48 AM Aye
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Leinad on February 20, 2016, 07:06:38 AM Nay on Unilateral creation of cabinet positions. I'm also against that, but I remembered that the President still needs congressional approval to appoint someone. So while they can create cabinet positions unilaterally until the cows come home, it means nothing if their attempts to fill said positions get blocked. Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on February 20, 2016, 02:11:44 PM RESULTS - FINAL VOTE
Aye 17 Nay 0 Both? 1 (JCL) By a vote of 17 Ayes and 0 Nays, with 1 vote uncertain and six delegates not voting, this Article has been ADOPTED. As such, I hereby declare debate to be closed in this thread. On to the judiciary! Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Classic Conservative on February 21, 2016, 07:59:00 PM Huzzah!!!
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Senator Cris on February 22, 2016, 04:23:22 PM Aye for the record.
Title: Re: The Executive Branch (President, Vice President, etc.) Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on March 14, 2016, 10:27:19 AM Aye
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