Talk Elections

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html

A lot of Republicans don't care about conservatism and this election proves it.

Vanilla Nationalism aligned with the conservative movement is not Fascism.  We used to have nationalist planks in both parties in this country, Harry Truman wasn't a Fascist, but you would call him one today.  Pursuing The nations interest BEFORE the interests of others isn't Fascism, it's common sense based on logic and reason.       

Don't touch Harry Truman with your dirty hands. Harry Truman is the guy who gave us UN, NATO, Marshall Plan, etc., etc. He was the first US president who came to Mexico City and paid homage to the victims of American invasion in 1847 (just so that you know).

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He was the guy who knew that America's interests involve cooperation with the rest of the world.

Trump does not have America's interests in mind: he does not know what these are and he does not care to learn. What he cares about is his own ego. He is willing to destroy America and the world to satisfy it.

My point is that nationalism is mainstream and always was represented by both parties to some extent, until dems started going nuts in 68 and Republican elites went ultra-internationalist on a few issues more recently. 

People seem to be dense about "cooperation".  It isn't a goal in itself.  You build partnerships when it makes sense and you don't when it doesn't.  You don't "cooperate" when it harms you severely.  Apparently that is a Fascist doctrine that Truman and FDR subscribed to and is now horrifying.                 

You invent a straw man. Nobody in US politics has ever objected to puting US interests first, and no prominent US politician has every done anything else. If any US presidential candidate has ever acted against US interests, it is Donald Trump. In fact, the only nationalist candidate in this race in the sense of Truman/FDR/Eisenhower/Reagan/Bush/Kennedy, you name it, is Hillary Clinton.

The choice in this election is very clear. If you care about the United States of America, you vote Hillary Clinton. If you want to destroy America and its way of life, you vote Donald Trump. As simple as that.

If Americans want to elect a facist President, then so be it. We need to learn our lesson.

Maybe walk through how that would be true in a linear fashion... I'm guessing you can't because it's probably impossible.

Hillary Clinton has never done anything (accomplishments... she has committed crimes and destroyed things), much less something in the interest of the country.  She has accepted money from foreign governments and their agents, who obviously have interests conflicting with the United States (by definition).  

Trump hasn't been bribed by foreigners, is a builder, and a successful negotiator.  

The proof is when you bring up changing trade deals or immigration.  Both issues need to be addressed to prevent continued harm to the country (obviously).  The Dems and some GOPers freak out like you're worshiping the devil if you advocate a pro-American position.  

Hillary Clinton has quite possibly staked out an anti-American position on every conceivable issue... Trying to think of an exception is something I don't have the time to research.  It would be like finding a needle in a haystack.      

It is in her nature to pander to small or fictional grievances in order to gain votes... actually acting out your panders to fictional grievers is by definition harmful to the country.  Additionally, the political art of forming and encouraging the phantom grievance groups has a dividing effect that is harful to the nation particularly from a nationalist perspective.  Anti-marxism and nationalism in america tend to go together, so Hillary can't be a nationalist because of her proximity to neo-marxist acttivities.     

Amen. The mask has been revealed and all that rhetoric about "muh constitution" and "muh small government" was just rhetoric and nothing more.

...basically.  It is kind of complicated.  I have often wondered if a national candidates ideological scorecard matters when weighed against other factors like:
1) ability to win
2) ability to call out democrat/media crap effectively
etc.

If you are a constitutional-ist and a federalist, than just keep insane democrats out of the white house and govern from the legislature and the states... like you should.

Trump will be directly involved in:
1)appointing non-lunatic judges
2)conducting a sane foreign policy
3)cutting a trade deal or two 
4)boarder security / immigration reform
5)maybe reigning in the lunatic EPA
6)appointing a cabinet obviously

Everything else is the states or congressional proposal/deal making.
so, really who cares how pure the guy is.  Democrats can't have the white house is the bottom line. 

Trumps will get 2 major issues done personally (the nationalist two) and delegate the rest to party loyalists and conservatives. 
I can live with that... It's pretty reasonable.

Trump isn't just pushing nationalism. He's going full "palingenetic populist ultra-nationalism" with a dash of violence on top for that extra-fascist touch. All we're missing in a paramilitary wearing gold "T" armbands.

I really fear for this country if Trump somehow becomes president. That will probably lead to the end of the Dollar as the reserve currency and then the sh**t really hits the fan. I would not be surprised if there were massacres in America by Trump supporting forces.

an assertion i would not wager money on
*snort*
well ok, that's true, in the same way that bernie madoff was a "successful negotiator".

One thing is for certain.  If we elect Trump, we deserve whatever happens.

If you elect Trump, you deserve whatever. But we are innocent!

NO. If America goes down we're taking the rest of the world with us, or at least Mexico.

Oh, yeah, innocence is not a defense. We will be screwed horribly, I have no doubts of that whatsoever. Really, if Trump is elected I am building a bunker somewhere in the mountains to survive the next decade. BUT WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO MADE IT HAPPEN!!!

If Mexico had bothered to control their borders at all for the last 50 years Trump would not be where he is today.

Guerrilla forces striking from the hills and fields of the US against Trump's Gold Berets (think gold cloaks ala GoT).  That kind of civil war might have excited me 15 years ago, but now I just want to be left the f alone.  I have my Italian passport (hooray jure sanguinis laws) so I'm ready to go if he's elected.

No. You are, pretty much, flat out wrong in every way imaginable.

"Controling the borders" is like controling the sea: if the water levels are very different, water will flow no matter what you do. And here the difference is dramatic, so controling it is pretty much impossible. In any case, a Mexican government that would have "controlled the borders" (or, at least, gave it a decent try) would have been a nasty and brutal dictatorship, which, by itself, would have only generated larger migration flows than what you see today. Finally, even if there had been no Mexican migrants whatsoever (which, by the way, would have implied lower standards of living for most Americans), Trump would have found something equally ridiculous to base his campaign on.

You know, there is an old joke about that old Armenian guy dying. So, he calls up his family and tells them: "listen to my last command: take care of the Jews." So, everybody is surprized: they guy himself had never shown much concern about the Jews in his life. "Why the Jews, grandpa?" asks one of them. "When they are done with the Jews, they will switch on to us" responds the old guy. Fascism does not need Jews or Mexicans: it only needs some identifiable group to resent. Blacks would have served the need admirably, methinks.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."

- H. L. Mencken and RogueBeaver's signature

Yep

edgy

I really like this quote. Do you mind if I put it in my signature?

Be my guest :)

Thanks!

"comes?"

If Mexico had learned to control their violence and corruption, illegal immigration would not be a problem and Trump would have found some other issue to stoke his candidacy.

One should not forget that substantial part of Mexico's violence and corruption is a direct consequence of US policies, such as the "war on drugs". We are all interdependenet, whether we like it or not.

They probably never heard of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

lol.

FWIW,  a pretty significant number of neo-Nazis and other white supremacists have endorsed Trump because "for the first time, we have a major presidential candidate who is saying what we've been saying all along."

that's why they are going to pay for the wall......

Washington Post for the lulz.....

The USA is the opposite of fascist.

Trump is not advocating for an authoritarian state, nor does he qualify with any definition remotely associated with fascism.

Trump is a populist who advocates overly simplistic solutions to gain votes in a democracy.

To say Trump is a fascist is a reflection more of the political troglodyte who made the statement in the first place.

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Hillary is the Queen of the Neocons.

They said that when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. Those words could not be any truer.

They're not totally accurate in the case of Trump, though. He's lazy, so he just says "flag" and "cross" a lot. (Or at least similar things, as long as they don't have too many syllables.) It seems to be working for him, though.

I hope the first of the fascist will be to clamp down on lousy over labeled political cartoons.

The question is: movement in which direction it will be blocking.

Presumably both.

Lulz CrabCake.

I dont even know what the Foundation scandal is.

Just another mountain ignored by the Washington Post I guess.

Everything he says is Trump-Fascism has been done by Obama...
So given that fact,
1) is Obama a dangerous fascist? 
2) Will Clinton continue Obama's Fascism? 
3) Aren't we already Fascist? How could it come to be by Trump, if Obama already brought it?
4) Is Trump the lesser Fascist compared to Hillary?

...Where has this guy been for 8 years?
 
 

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...Maybe come up with a single thing that isn't factual.  I won't hold my breath.