Talk Elections

I will keep it simple.  The fantasy elections have become too mean spirited, too complicated, too corrupt and too devisive and ultimatly detrimental to the forum as a whole.  So therefore I will resign from forum politics, at least until there is major reform.  I will continue as an active member of the forum, but this board is no longer fun and the orignal purpose has been lost.

Good Luck everyone one and God Bless.

Another great one gone

I would like to say that I appreciate the sentiment that my former opponent has expressed. He has been a worthy and effective advocate for his cause, and for the cause of all of us as citizens of the Atlas Forum. I regret his decision, but my faith in his good judgement is unshakable, and I respect him for making this decision. I trust that he has thought this through thoroughly. I hope that he will at some point in the future reconsider and rejoin the Fantasy Forums. I also hope that all of the rest of us will take heed of his words and do our best to make the Fantasy Elections hospitable to him and others who may share his sentiment.

I must say that I respect Supersoulty for his honourable exit from Atlasian politics.
---
Al Realpolitik

I have to say that Supersoulty exit will be a loss and wish that he consider that again

I concur with my honourable colleague, and ask another honourable colleague to reconsider :)

I love the word colleague

Sad...

There is too few Republicans left here. Atlas Forum will soon be two party-system again: Democrats and Progressives. This is not good thing.

ave you looked in the registration thread recently, Huck? ;)

What you mean?

There is only few ACTIVE Republicans in the Fantasy Election.

I regret supersoulty's decision to drop out. Surely emotions can run high, I have felt things were not done right here before, but utlimately specific issues pass and passions cool unless they are deliberately stirred up. As for divisiveness, it may excessively affect some, but there is a great amount of mutual respect from many distinguished members of the three parties. We had Democrats voting for Republicans and Republicans voting for Progressives. I supported invalidating the District 4 vote, which obviously was not a partisan decision. But most of all this is a loss because:
1) we need more active Republicans
2) we need as many voices of reason such as supersoulty as possible

The number one goal of this Fantasy Forum should be to keep it fun.

yeaahhha!!!!!!!!

Go away salty!

Who's next?  

your bad

This is sad to see. I hope Supersoulty will reconsider, even though I can't help to agree with his points.

I too hope he will reconsider. Had he been elected, he would have been the first president to resign. yet, I REALLY could see a President Supersoulty administration. Does this mean GWBFan will run?

I completely understand why Supersoulty is dropping out and whatnot, because I mostly feel the same way. But I think if we can keep reasonable individuals, like Chris, who don't let the game become overrun with bureaucrats and frivilous rules, etc (while still maintaining some professionalism about it) we can keep it fun.

Sorry to see you go, soupersalty ;)

No comment.

Well, I can't believe it.  I'm pretty disappointed.  After saying he wouldn't run if Nym runs again, only to run anyway...after I and Reaganfan dropped out to endorse him...

But I like Supersoulty, so I won't leave him on a bad note, I guess.

Reaganfan, no.  I'm not going to run again.  I'm starting to hate the Fantasy Forum just as much (it appears) as Supersoulty hates it.  Who knows?  I might be the next to leave......

This is sad...Maybe Supersoulty will reconsider now that he's had a night to sleep on it.

Maybe.  For the sake of the forum, one can only hope, as he was one of the best members...and one of the few active Republicans.  But it kind of puts a sour note on his campaign if he does return, so who knows?

I would like to echo the setniments of my friend gustaf.

This is a very sad occassion.

I agree, very sad.  But I'd bet there are a few people out there happy about this.  After all, this does mean (at least for the time being) Nym will be easily reelected with no major challenger.

Breaking News
John is Back in the Race
He Said he will not Running for Gonvener but he will run for Presdntial Election Aginst Num
I am Announced my Bid for the Nomtion of the GOP Party
Regean lost a Good Race & after Hering Super Drop out it is time for Leader to Take on num
So i am running & no Democarts Can Stop Me
Thank you

:)  Well good luck to you, John.

Welcome to the race, John. I know that you will be a worthy opponent if you win the nomination.

It's very sad to see Super leave... Yet I tend to agree with him and I too am getting sick of this BS thats been going on lately from certain members of this board... If I don't see change I will also think about walking away from this board for awhile until movement is shifted in a more positive direction.

Well
Thnak you Presdnti num
I will do my Best
If i do win the Nomionton
I want a good Campgin
We will see who wins the Race
GOOD LUCK

Ditto.  "Certain members of this board..."  Yea.

I'm really thinking of walking away too.  I don't know if things will change that much though...

I concur... But I was just thinking if we leave we are dooming this place to stay the way it is... If we stay and try to make change things could improve.

WELL IF I WIN
i NEED SOME Names to chosee my VP
Here are Two
Reagan
Super
GWPFan
I need some if i win the Nomtion

I know what you guys are saying, but please don't go :(  The Republicans here make this stuff interesting.

I agree... if this were fun, I might actually engage in it rather than being an active spectator :)

As the attitude from all this does spill over into the rest of the forum (which is what I am concerned with) -- I do hope that the negative shape that the fantasy stuff is in can be shifted in a more positive direction.  It just seems that there are a few individuals who are the cause of the problems and maybe those individuals can shift their attitude into a different shape, if you get my drift.

Tell that to a few of your fellow Dems and some of the Progressives, who (for me) are the cause for the decline in fun on the forum.  In any case, I have no issue with you, Nation.  :)  It's just a handful in your party I'm at odds with.

name names lol.

I hope that this issue can be resolved soon and will strive to achieve a better forum as Senator for the Western region.

Do you really want me to (name names)?  B/c I can...  :)

Good for you, JFK.  I hope you're succesfull in making a better forum.  Someone screwed up somewhere along the line to make this forum into the non-entertaining warzone it has become.

It's probably not necessary for him to name names, its shifting the shape of the forum's attitude that counts.

All I hear on this tread is more whining and pointing fingers. "It is everyone fault but mine" Sounds like an adult right?

I won't contribute to your childish acts by saying something just as childish as your post. Trust me when I said this, I am not going to pull a SuperSoulty because people don't like me. You can continue with your childish acts and smear campaign, I can care less.

Hey, I never said it wasn't partly my fault for some of the bad moods around here.  I am partly responsible.  But not fully, and not mostly.

I was kidding ;), I don't want names, I have an idea of who he means.

This saddens me. Supersoulty is a good guy and one of the best members of the forum, I hope he will join us again in the future.

The only party, in my opinion that is making this no fun, is the Republican party. All they are doing is whining and pointing fingers. Don't want to take any responsibility. "I'm okay, your not okay" type of childish acts. Smear campaigns and storming out of the board has also contributed to the decline in fun. They are acting like sore losers and calling everything partisan before giving anyone a chance. "Supreme court nominees are partisan."

Calm down Shapey,  I think that's a pretty unfair assessment.

When have we ran smear campaigns? Im pretty sure thats the AFDNC doing that.

Wait. When someone makes an unfair assessment of me, that is okay with you? I am not going to be the scape goat of this board just because I disagree.

Stop saying Cald down. Only people who say that, are people who are intentioning trying to make the person even more hyper so they can look like an as-.

Let me get this straight, Don posts a clever criticism of Shifter saying the forum should be mor epositive, and Shifter denies being a negative force and promptly attacking Don.  Is this the f'ing twilight zone?

Huh? when I said the Republican party, I meant some members of the republican party - not the AFDNC nor the AFRNC. It is the same over generalization some are doing with the Democratic party and Progressive.

Welcome to the Desert of the Real.

Huh? I didn't say anything was OK with me...however, I believe that the attacks on you are based on events about which I don't know a great lot. So that's mostly why I didn't comment on them.

And if you don't want to be calm, go ahead. I won't stop you, or anyone else, from getting into fights.

This is another prime example of what I am talking about. Also, I NEVER attacked Don. I intentionally did not try to match his attack with a childish act in return.

You mean the Democratic party and their affiliated ally? ;) :D

I don't think that is a fair assumption but I guess you are the exception of your own rule.

Thanks JFK for the rare laugh. I am sure you hate me too because everyone is out to blame someone - I may be wrong but everyone is rallying around the scapegoat, which is me.

It seems the mood here has reached the point of no jokes...well, so be it then.

I always found reversed inconsistency pretty fun. You can't attack me for being inconsistent without being inconsistent yourself on this one really...but I was joking, I think you...well, OK, I won't say it... :P

You attacked him when you called him childish!  How do you not realize this!

If you want to continue this witch hunt - go ahead.

By the way, I never said Don was childish. If you read closely because you jump into conclusion, I said his action was childish, not - Don is childish. I will quote myself again just in case.

"I won't contribute to your childish acts by saying something just as childish as your post. Trust me when I said this, I am not going to pull a SuperSoulty because people don't like me. You can continue with your childish acts and smear campaign, I can care less."

Eh...I thought it was childish to engage in childish acts...am I wrong?

I agree with Gustaf here Shifty.

When have you ever agreed with me? No surprise.

You are not wrong. It is a matter of difference in perception.

Personally, I was calling his actions and not him childish.

If I thought he was a childish person, I would had said something else directly.

I don't think Don is a childish person, I just think this particular post was. Yes it is possible to attack someone's action without attacking their character.

Let me just clear some things up:

1) I'm not leaving the forum entirly.  I'm just leaving the fantasy elections.

2) When I ran for President, I never expected any powers or anything of the like.  I just wanted to have fun.  I expected to be nothing better than a "Grand Pooba" with just a title and some recongnition for my possition.  That's it.  That's what I envisioned for this entire process.

I never wanted a "Fantasy Government".  I never wanted Constitutions, or Governors, or Justices, or Senators, or Party Bosses.  I just wanted to have fun.  We aren't having that anymore.  It's not Nym's fault, it is not the Progressives fault (although they pressed for all this crap), it is everyone's fault.  We all let it come to this, because those who were for it wanted to go balls out and those who were against it (such as myself) just went with the flow so we wouldn't piss everyone off.  However, everyone is already pissed off, so that gives at least one group cause to speak-up.

So what would I do?  Well, get rid of the Party Bosses, get rid of the "Fantasy Government", get rid of the Supreme Court and for God's sake get rid of the Constitution (sorry Dan, I know you worked hard, but it has become such a damn hassel).  Stick to ELECTIONS.  Have Presidential election, we can have some Senate elections, have a basic set of election rules and have fun!  That's why we started this.  The possitions should mean NOTHING.  It should be to enjoy.  This has all taken up valuible time that we could have used debating the real issues.  It has brought people ot the forum whos only purpose is to take part in the elections and government so they can show everyone on the world-wide-web that their penis is bigger than that of the guy who they beat.

It shouldn't be this way.  Valuible members such as JR have left because this is out of control.  It's time to put an end to it and if you guys can then I will come back to have fun.

That's all.


PS  A wise man once said "They make a desert and call it peace".  I think that that idea more than applies here.

HEAR HEAR!!!!!

p.s. get on AIM, I want to talk to you.

Amen Super!

Pardon me for obtruding here, but it has been implied that there should be election rules. These very rules will be a constitution, whether you call it a constitution or not.

Now, it has also been suggested that these positions should be meaningless, and that parties should not be allowed to have their own leaders. Then all will descend into a monotonous series of elections and campaigns, with nothing in between. I have not been here since the beginning of this process, so I would not know what the original intention was. Still, it seems that this process makes the entire fantasy election concept more interesting. Please note that these are only my views; they are not meant to attack yours.

I agree. I've been thinking this for some time, but those who are in favour of change are often very persuasive... :(

I also feel a little sorry for all of those who put in a lot of work into details, but it's true that the idea was originally to have fun and have elections, not have anything this complicated.

John I encourage u too run

This is why we wanted Super for president.  There simply is no equal to him.

Just for the records, I was not around when the "original" idea was form. Gus kept alluding to this, but I honestly did not understand but recently after the elections do understand.

People need to stop agreeing when they don't really agree just because they feel that disagreeing will make them look like an as-hole. Stand up for yourself.

I, for one, was looking forward to some debates but my oppontent did not even showed up. How is that my fault? How is it anyone fault who run unopposed?

That is why I keep stressing about having active members run for positions because how can we debate the issues?

Well, SuperSoulty, I enjoyed this post of yours - minus the progressive comment.

I will state something that I have stated a few times before. A lot of people seem to be misinterpreting the purpose of this board. Let me just remind you of the name: The Atlas Forum fantasy elections. This was never supposed to be an all the way government sim, it was supposed to be a part-time thing for the forum members. Now it's grown to an own world and a lot of people are almost exclusively participating in this, and shutting out other forum members through excessive rules. If people want to have a full grown fantasy government, they can honestly make their own site for that. This is supposed to be a corrollary, sort of, to the forum, not an independent world.

I do agree with many of the sentiments that Supersoulty has put forth. I too wanted things to be a little more simplified, with more focus on the election aspect. I enjoyed the debates that we had before the first election because they focused on real issues, not on Fantasy government. Even though it was a fantasy election, it was a real debate, very similar to an actual Presidential debate in terms of questions and answers. That was fun. Bureaucracy isn't fun, at least not for me. I work in government in real life, and I put up with enough of that stuff every day. Don't get me wrong, I love my job, and I love working to help people, but I don't like red tape. In the real world, bureaucracy is necessary in order to ensure that everyone gets treated equally, and without bias. But if there is one thing that bureacuracy isn't, it's fun. That's one thing I will definitely attest to, and agree wholeheartedly with. Elections are fun, but the actual process of running and managing government (as necessary as that is) isn't fun. Since this whole Fantasy elections thing is supposed to be fun, we should try to make it as non-bureaucratic as possible (without letting it go to the point of descending into chaos).

That's just my $0.02.

As I said in my earliest posts opposing the Fantasy elections idea - I feared it might get out of hand and cause trouble and disharmony throughout the entire forum.  I know Super had the same thoughts, but believed that it would stop at the Presidential election and not go further.

There is nothing wrong with having a fully functioning sim and I applaud those who made the attempt.  I used to participate in a fully functioning sim and liked it... but I have experience in just how grusome it can be.  I didn't want to have that happen here.

One of the biggest problems with a sim is the highly charged partisan atmosphere, especially when real parties are involved.  It's difficult to have an election when the outcome of the election is pre-determined by the number of partisans on the respective sides.  For an election to be fun, people have to be free to vote for whom they like and agree with the most - rather than parties fielding candidates.

I was not here for the golden age of the Fantasy Elections. When I came in, I thought it was a Fantasy Elections/Government board. Please in the future, SPEAK UP. Disagreeing might make you unpopular but hey, who cares. :) Take it from me, the person everyone hates - especially ChopFl, and a few others.

I agree with Nym, this needs to relate back to reality.  Its hard to get excited about a war on trolls, for crying out loud.

A trollish curtain has descended across the continent...doesn't work.

Hear, hear.

This brings up another point. Back then the fantasy election ad an image of being set in real life, rather than in the context of the forum. This also added some to the fun.

Agreed and it was much easier to run campaigns ;)

I must agree also.


Off topic, but Ford, you read Virgil eh? read any of his stuff in original latin?

Well thats the thing - just about any poll of any kind (including an election) seems to attract trolls.  If you want to have any kind of vote or election, you MUST be serious about getting rid of trolls.  

Politics1.com had a simple fun poll trying to guage the readership's views on the 2004 election.  It was neat until a bunch of libertarians tried to flood the poll with votes for their candidate.  So Ron had to take the poll down since it wasn't doing any good anymore if people were going to abuse it.   It's a shame that some selfish people have to ruin everyone else's fun.

The problem here is that we do not have the power to get rid of them ourselves - we have to bug Dave about it each time.

I echo ShapeShifter's sentiments. If a constitution undergoes writing, one cannot but assume there is some Government involved.

Oh, that wasn't really the reason. I was hoping that it would work out, but it didn't. And I did try to hint at it, but basically we abdicated from our responsibility...which was dum by us. :(

But I'm awaiting the storm now, lol.

I originally figured that the Constitution would be writen soley for the purpose of establishing election rules.  Those rules would then be enforced (non-partisanly) by the group.  That's it.  I never figured on powers being granted or anything like that.

I wouldn't say I read Virgil.  I've read the Aeneid, but not in Latin.

ah, I have read Orpheus and Eurydice and Elysium in latin.

I'm inclined to agree with Supersoulty that there is too much bureaucracy and Constitution stuff in this forum. Heck, this place is starting to turn into the internet equivalent of the EU.

That said, others are also emanating a bit of a spoilsport attitude about all this simply because some of the humour displayed here isn't entirely to their liking. Fine, it's perfectly  understandable if black humour isn't your cup of tea. However, if you want to improve this place, it's always better to do it from within; no point in running off just because the situation isn't entirely to your liking. Besides, we need more Republicans here.

My impression is that the Constitution IS mostly election rules.  Isn't that what all the debates we are having are about?

What humour would that be? I know some people might have not taken the baby killing and similar campaigns all that well, lol. ;) (I thought it was kind of funny though...) But none of those peopel have left, have they?

for the last couple of months we had a cabinet and we worked ob rhe constitution and the midterms. Every one did. What happend now? why this ? lets clear the atmospher, and have our fantasy corner of the WWW.

Though I am a new poster, I did follow the first elections of the forum from afar. I will miss you Mr. Supersoulty.

1. Here is too much bureaucracy - It takes too much time (although I have enjoyed some part of planning of constitution)

2. "Real issue" debates were interesting.

3. Dave should kill trolls! (But leave John alive)

4. Fantasy Elections is only (small) part of the Atlas Forum. Htmldon, you should stay in the REAL forum and leave Atlas stuff alone.