Talk Elections

Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion => Congressional Elections => Topic started by: RogueBeaver on March 09, 2017, 02:14:30 PM



Title: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 09, 2017, 02:14:30 PM
Per Howey Politics. (http://howeypolitics.com/Files/HPI170309.pdf#page=4)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer entering by May
Post by: Pandaguineapig on March 09, 2017, 02:33:31 PM
R+1, I guess. Donnelly will start out with a lead in the polls (just like Bayh), but Messer should win in the end.

That being said, I really don't think he is the best candidate Republicans have.
Weaker than Brooks or Ballard but won't self-destruct like Murdock or Stutzman


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer entering by May
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on March 09, 2017, 03:02:05 PM
He said he'd decide by May, not that he was running.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer entering by May
Post by: Maxwell on March 09, 2017, 03:10:34 PM
Messer's a middle tier candidate in the grand scheme of things - he wouldn't win it outright but he also isn't gonna completely butcher it ala Mourdock, MacIntosh, or even Stutzman. He's pretty conservative, and supported the Trump Travel Ban. If Messer does jump in as this article insinuates he will, I think he'd have the advantage but not a stable one.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer entering by May
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on March 09, 2017, 03:27:42 PM
Messer's a middle tier candidate in the grand scheme of things - he wouldn't win it outright but he also isn't gonna completely butcher it ala Mourdock, MacIntosh, or even Stutzman. He's pretty conservative, and supported the Trump Travel Ban. If Messer does jump in as this article insinuates he will, I think he'd have the advantage but not a stable one.

Sounds about right


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Rjjr77 on March 09, 2017, 04:14:57 PM
I wonder if someone like Curtis Hill would hop in.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Blackacre on March 09, 2017, 04:18:41 PM
If Messer does get in, this race becomes Tilt or Lean Republican. Donnelly is the most vulnerable Democratic incumbent. He's fairly anonymous, (unlike McCaskill) comes from a clearly Republican state that also has a record of ousting incumbents, (unlike Brown) comes from an average-sized state that is too big for retail politics alone to succeed, (unlike Heitkamp) only won once against a terrible opponent, (unlike Tester) and doesn't appear to be a very talented or a very conservative politician, plus his last elected office was US Rep. (unlike Manchin, who was Governor)

However, Donnelly isn't dead on arrival. He outperformed Obama in 2012 by seven points, he's not gaffe-prone, and his state's voters might take out their anti-incumbent anger on Trump rather than on him if Trump is unpopular enough on election day.

With a mid-tier candidate like Messer being Donnelly's opponent, however, I can say this for sure: this race will be one to watch on election night. Indiana closes its polls very early. An early call in IN-Sen will indicate a big night for whichever party wins that race. If the race isn't called for a while, the entire election night will be a nail-biter. (however, since the race starts out as Tilt/Lean Messer, a long wait could indicate good things for Dems elsewhere)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on March 09, 2017, 04:25:49 PM
Someone other than Messer could still get in. Like Stutzman. Or maybe Ballard.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on March 09, 2017, 06:17:39 PM
Really, what the hell is so bad about Messer? He's way better than Lil' Marlin, and of the Indiana Republican Congressmen, he's the closest (personally) to Pence, who's VP. He should beat Donnelly, especially after all that happened last year.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on March 09, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Really, what the hell is so bad about Messer? He's way better than Lil' Marlin, and of the Indiana Republican Congressmen, he's the closest (personally) to Pence, who's VP. He should beat Donnelly, especially after all that happened last year.
It's almost like they represented the same district... I think people are underestimating how unpopular Pence was in Indiana. Yes, yes, Trump and Pence swept Indiana, but Gregg was in line to take Pence down. Clinton and Bayh, were a major drag.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on March 09, 2017, 06:52:52 PM
Really, what the hell is so bad about Messer? He's way better than Lil' Marlin, and of the Indiana Republican Congressmen, he's the closest (personally) to Pence, who's VP. He should beat Donnelly, especially after all that happened last year.

He strikes me as the typical condescending Republican who you can't help but dislike (a Rick Berg, if you will). I'm worried that he could be labeled "out of touch", especially against "good ol' Hoosier Joe :)".

But yeah, I agree that he will most likely beat Donnelly. Bayh's landslide loss (this is a man who won basically all of his previous elections with at least 60% of the vote) was completely unexpected and is not a good sign for Donnelly, to say the least.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer entering by May
Post by: Vosem on March 09, 2017, 07:12:37 PM
He said he'd decide by May, not that he was running.

Messer's actions strongly suggest that he's running. Susan Brooks has already bowed out; Rokita may still challenge him but Messer's already out to a pretty solid head start.

Really, what the hell is so bad about Messer? He's way better than Lil' Marlin, and of the Indiana Republican Congressmen, he's the closest (personally) to Pence, who's VP. He should beat Donnelly, especially after all that happened last year.

Years have their own personalities. I agree that Donnelly may be likely to be defeated at the moment, but what happened in 2016 can easily be completely reversed in 2018. Indiana is actually a very good example of this, since it's recently swung heavily together with the prevailing winds:

√ Dan Coats (Republican) 56.4%
Brad Ellsworth (Democratic) 38.1%
Rebecca Sink-Burris (Libertarian) 5.4%

√ Joe Donnelly (Democratic) 50.0%
Richard Mourdock (Republican) 44.2%
Andrew Horning (Libertarian) 5.7%

Two-year difference there. Much bigger swing than would be necessary from the 2016 results to give Donnelly a victory.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer entering by May
Post by: Coolface Sock #42069 on March 09, 2017, 10:53:50 PM
He said he'd decide by May, not that he was running.

Messer's actions strongly suggest that he's running. Susan Brooks has already bowed out; Rokita may still challenge him but Messer's already out to a pretty solid head start.

Really, what the hell is so bad about Messer? He's way better than Lil' Marlin, and of the Indiana Republican Congressmen, he's the closest (personally) to Pence, who's VP. He should beat Donnelly, especially after all that happened last year.

Years have their own personalities. I agree that Donnelly may be likely to be defeated at the moment, but what happened in 2016 can easily be completely reversed in 2018. Indiana is actually a very good example of this, since it's recently swung heavily together with the prevailing winds:

√ Dan Coats (Republican) 56.4%
Brad Ellsworth (Democratic) 38.1%
Rebecca Sink-Burris (Libertarian) 5.4%

√ Joe Donnelly (Democratic) 50.0%
Richard Mourdock (Republican) 44.2%
Andrew Horning (Libertarian) 5.7%

Two-year difference there. Much bigger swing than would be necessary from the 2016 results to give Donnelly a victory.
But Mourdock was a trash-level candidate who made a stupid comment about rape. No way Donnelly would have beaten Richard Lugar.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on March 09, 2017, 11:35:07 PM
Really, what the hell is so bad about Messer? He's way better than Lil' Marlin, and of the Indiana Republican Congressmen, he's the closest (personally) to Pence, who's VP. He should beat Donnelly, especially after all that happened last year.

He strikes me as the typical condescending Republican who you can't help but dislike (a Rick Berg, if you will). I'm worried that he could be labeled "out of touch", especially against "good ol' Hoosier Joe :)".

But yeah, I agree that he will most likely beat Donnelly. Bayh's landslide loss (this is a man who won basically all of his previous elections with at least 60% of the vote) was completely unexpected and is not a good sign for Donnelly, to say the least.
Is this a joke? Donnelly was born and raised in Long Island. He didn't move to Indiana until his college years. Messer is a native Hoosier and lifelong Indiana resident. Also he's Pence's BFF in the House so Pence would be way more fired up to help him as opposed to say, Lil' Marlin or Tennessee Trey.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Blackacre on March 10, 2017, 10:08:22 AM
Is this a joke? Donnelly was born and raised in Long Island. He didn't move to Indiana until his college years. Messer is a native Hoosier and lifelong Indiana resident. Also he's Pence's BFF in the House so Pence would be way more fired up to help him as opposed to say, Lil' Marlin or Tennessee Trey.

What matters is how voters in Indiana view him, not we. :P

Perception is reality, after all :P


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Figueira on March 11, 2017, 11:26:46 AM
If Messer does get in, this race becomes Tilt or Lean Republican. Donnelly is the most vulnerable Democratic incumbent. He's fairly anonymous, (unlike McCaskill) comes from a clearly Republican state that also has a record of ousting incumbents, (unlike Brown) comes from an average-sized state that is too big for retail politics alone to succeed, (unlike Heitkamp) only won once against a terrible opponent, (unlike Tester) and doesn't appear to be a very talented or a very conservative politician, plus his last elected office was US Rep. (unlike Manchin, who was Governor)

However, Donnelly isn't dead on arrival. He outperformed Obama in 2012 by seven points, he's not gaffe-prone, and his state's voters might take out their anti-incumbent anger on Trump rather than on him if Trump is unpopular enough on election day.

With a mid-tier candidate like Messer being Donnelly's opponent, however, I can say this for sure: this race will be one to watch on election night. Indiana closes its polls very early. An early call in IN-Sen will indicate a big night for whichever party wins that race. If the race isn't called for a while, the entire election night will be a nail-biter. (however, since the race starts out as Tilt/Lean Messer, a long wait could indicate good things for Dems elsewhere)

This seems pretty accurate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: houseonaboat on March 16, 2017, 11:17:00 PM
Lugar lost by 20 points though, it's not like Mourdock won in a fluke. Indiana's electorate of GOP primary voters is very conservative, so I think whoever wins the primary (I assume it will be Messer) will have to run as unabashedly pro-Trump. So if Trump is unpopular, Donnelly could win this the same way he won in 2012.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on March 17, 2017, 07:57:20 AM
Toss-Up

Despite voting for Trump pretty handily, Indiana is a fairly elastic state. If the anti-Trump sentiment is strong enough, it's certainly within margin for Democrats to win. Also, Indiana Republicans tend to be pretty gaffe-prone.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on March 17, 2017, 09:44:45 AM
Seems like it's shaping up to be a Messer vs Rokita primary. I think Messer would get more national support and he is way more likeable, although Rokita might be better known because he has won statewide races in the past. Ideologically they are pretty similar, both solidly conservative but neither is a radical, Rokita might be slightly more likely to align with the tea party than Messer who quickly rose in the house ranks. I like Messer and think Rokita is horrible.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: RogueBeaver on March 21, 2017, 11:28:54 AM
Messer  (http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Congressman-Messer-Announces-Statewide-Campaign-Finance-Committee.html?soid=1123214391458&aid=fWVSe4M8R-0)creates a statewide finance committee and Banks  (https://twitter.com/sfpathe/status/843967268086255616)is out.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Figueira on March 21, 2017, 11:46:36 AM
Why did Lugar lose so badly, and why did Stutzman lose so badly?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Maxwell on March 21, 2017, 11:53:37 AM
Why did Lugar lose so badly, and why did Stutzman lose so badly?

Lugar was perceived as out of touch and Lugar didn't really do much to change that perception.

Stutzman ran against someone just about as conservative as he was in Todd Young, except way more electable. Also, Indiana Republicans learned the hard way with Mourdock not to just elect "muh conservative" candidate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on March 21, 2017, 07:20:15 PM
Why did Lugar lose so badly, and why did Stutzman lose so badly?

Lugar was perceived as out of touch and Lugar didn't really do much to change that perception.

Stutzman ran against someone just about as conservative as he was in Todd Young, except way more electable. Also, Indiana Republicans learned the hard way with Mourdock not to just elect "muh conservative" candidate.

Agreed about Lugar. Young had way more money and establishment support, when Holcomb dropped out basically all of his supporters and donors went to Young. Stutzman also hurt himself by failing in an attempt to take Young off the ballot which angered many republicans. Agreed that Stutzman was also hurt by the recent defeat of Mourdock, Indiana GOP didn't want to nominate another far right loser. Young is conservative but more pragmatic.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: InheritTheWind on March 27, 2017, 12:19:17 PM
Why did Lugar lose so badly, and why did Stutzman lose so badly?

Idk about Stutzman, but Lugar and Bayh both lost their respective races so badly because they were (rightly, might I add) portrayed as being out-of-touch with Indiana, both of them barely living in the state anymore. In that sense, I think Donnelly is safe from a blowout- both Lugar and Bayh had a stench of "Washington insider" firmly on them, something that Donnelly is (probably) safe from. IMO, this is a toss-up.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on March 27, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

Bayh, one of the most popular IN politicians ever, was literally considered unbeatable and up by like 30 points when he entered the race. The fact that he lost by such a blowout on election day isn't exactly encouraging news for Donnelly, to say the least.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Blackacre on March 28, 2017, 11:47:40 AM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on March 28, 2017, 12:24:47 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz
I'm not too sure, but I can try to help you: It sounds like he's talking about a male Senator (his, he) who served only one term. Udall is far from a moderate and if anything, Colorado favors Democrats.
I think he's talking about Begich.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Figueira on March 28, 2017, 12:33:58 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz
I'm not too sure, but I can try to help you: It sounds like he's talking about a male Senator (his, he) who served only one term. Udall is far from a moderate and if anything, Colorado favors Democrats.
I think he's talking about Begich.

Using Begich to argue that Donnelly will lose is pretty silly, considering that Begich came close to winning in a very Republican year.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on March 28, 2017, 12:40:47 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz
I'm not too sure, but I can try to help you: It sounds like he's talking about a male Senator (his, he) who served only one term. Udall is far from a moderate and if anything, Colorado favors Democrats.
I think he's talking about Begich.

Using Begich to argue that Donnelly will lose is pretty silly, considering that Begich came close to winning in a very Republican year.

I wasn't talking about Begich but rather about the former Senator from the state that neighbors Indiana. :P I'm not saying Donnelly will lose that badly, though, I just think there are some interesting similarities here.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on March 28, 2017, 12:57:10 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz
I'm not too sure, but I can try to help you: It sounds like he's talking about a male Senator (his, he) who served only one term. Udall is far from a moderate and if anything, Colorado favors Democrats.
I think he's talking about Begich.

Using Begich to argue that Donnelly will lose is pretty silly, considering that Begich came close to winning in a very Republican year.

I wasn't talking about Begich but rather about the former Senator from the state that neighbors Indiana. :P I'm not saying Donnelly will lose that badly, though, I just think there are some interesting similarities here.
I wouldn't necessarily say Duckworth was a mediocre opponent, not quite sure who would actually be considered "stronger" to be honest.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on March 28, 2017, 01:00:35 PM
^^Cheri Bustos? Lisa Madigan? I remember a lot of Democrats worrying in 2014/15 that Duckworth might blow it.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on March 28, 2017, 01:01:55 PM
^^Cheri Bustos? Lisa Madigan? I remember a lot of Democrats worrying in 2014/15 that Duckworth might blow it.
Forgot about Bustos LOL. I think she would have been the strongest. Lisa Madigan has the unfortunate last name, but still would have won.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Figueira on March 28, 2017, 03:03:45 PM
The Kirk comparison does make sense, although it's unclear if Donnelly will be as bad a re-election candidate as Kirk. I have this as Lean R, which is about the opposite of what I had Illinois as 2 years ago.

Lisa Madigan was widely considered to be the strongest possible candidate, for the record.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: InheritTheWind on March 28, 2017, 03:11:50 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz
I'm not too sure, but I can try to help you: It sounds like he's talking about a male Senator (his, he) who served only one term. Udall is far from a moderate and if anything, Colorado favors Democrats.
I think he's talking about Begich.

Using Begich to argue that Donnelly will lose is pretty silly, considering that Begich came close to winning in a very Republican year.

I wasn't talking about Begich but rather about the former Senator from the state that neighbors Indiana. :P I'm not saying Donnelly will lose that badly, though, I just think there are some interesting similarities here.

I mean, Kirk himself imploded in 2016. Remember what he said about Duckworth's heritage? As long as Donnelly stays away from attacking his opponent's parents, he has a fighting chance, just as Kirk did before he put his foot in his mouth.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on April 07, 2017, 08:43:33 PM
Quote
#INSen watch: Luke Messer campaign announces $700K raised in Q1, $1.6M COH

https://twitter.com/sfpathe/status/849748770157973504


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on April 09, 2017, 04:40:08 PM
There was no way Donnelly wasn't in trouble come re-elect. It may not win him supporters among Indiana Republicans, but joining the airport protests back when the travel ban was announced shows he's awake, which is more than I think could be said for much of his time in office. (Also curious how the travel ban plays in Indiana. RFRA was unpopular because it went against Hoosier hospitality.)

If he plays up his Catholic roots through his relatively pro-life positions, it's not entirely impossible he makes it through in a squeaker.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Gass3268 on May 03, 2017, 09:08:13 AM
Todd Rokita says United passenger shouldn't have resisted (http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/02/todd-rokita-says-united-passenger-shouldnt-have-resisted/101208676/)

Don't know if this will go over well.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Shameless Lefty Hack on May 03, 2017, 09:28:13 AM
Unsure if it has been mentioned here, but Donnelly's CM was announced some time ago to be Peter Hanscom, fresh off of two losses as Evan Bayh's CM and Hillary Clinton's Indiana State Director for the primary.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on May 03, 2017, 09:30:47 AM
Unsure if it has been mentioned here, but Donnelly's CM was announced some time ago to be Peter Hanscom, fresh off of two losses as Evan Bayh's CM and Hillary Clinton's Indiana State Director for the primary.
That sure is discomforting.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on May 03, 2017, 01:25:33 PM
Unsure if it has been mentioned here, but Donnelly's CM was announced some time ago to be Peter Hanscom, fresh off of two losses as Evan Bayh's CM and Hillary Clinton's Indiana State Director for the primary.

Hanscom sucks. Why would Donnelly pick him?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Shameless Lefty Hack on May 03, 2017, 03:18:02 PM
Unsure if it has been mentioned here, but Donnelly's CM was announced some time ago to be Peter Hanscom, fresh off of two losses as Evan Bayh's CM and Hillary Clinton's Indiana State Director for the primary.

Hanscom sucks. Why would Donnelly pick him?

Failing upward is a very real phenomenon in professional politics, especially for white dudes with a professional affect.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on May 12, 2017, 08:08:21 PM
Penelopegate in Indiana? http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/messer-defends-wifes-contract-city

I doubt it will sink a Messer candidacy but it could pose trouble down the line.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on May 14, 2017, 02:09:00 PM
Penelopegate in Indiana? http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/messer-defends-wifes-contract-city

I doubt it will sink a Messer candidacy but it could pose trouble down the line.

Rokita put this out there. Hopefully it doesn't hurt Messer, he would be a way better senator than Rokita.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Pericles on May 14, 2017, 07:47:01 PM
Donnelly is very vulnerable, though Democrats still have a good shot at keeping McCaskill.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on May 15, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Rep. Todd Rokita looks like he's going to run.

Quote
Rep. Todd Rokita, R-4th, has taken a step toward launching a U.S. Senate bid by appointing a statewide campaign finance staff.

Rokita has named Dan Dumezich to chair the team. Dumezich, an attorney from Schererville, is a former treasurer of the Indiana Republican Party and a former state legislator who has worked on campaign finance teams for GOP presidential candidates Donald Trump, Mitt Romney and George W. Bush.

“There is no better political fundraiser in Indiana,” Rokita said in a news release.

Other members of Rokita's finance team include Jamie Weber and Dave Buskill, who have worked on Rokita's House campaigns, and Washington-based fundraisers Laura Van Hove, Jon Graham and Mike Gula.

Rokita is considering seeking the Republican nomination next year for the seat held by Sen. Joe Donnelly, D-Ind. Rep.

http://journalgazette.net/blog/political-notebook/20170514/rokita-hires-prominent-gop-fundraiser


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on May 16, 2017, 06:21:45 PM
Another hideous Indiana GOP Senate primary? Yes, please.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cynthia on May 16, 2017, 10:45:32 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz
I'm not too sure, but I can try to help you: It sounds like he's talking about a male Senator (his, he) who served only one term. Udall is far from a moderate and if anything, Colorado favors Democrats.
I think he's talking about Begich.

Using Begich to argue that Donnelly will lose is pretty silly, considering that Begich came close to winning in a very Republican year.

I wasn't talking about Begich but rather about the former Senator from the state that neighbors Indiana. :P I'm not saying Donnelly will lose that badly, though, I just think there are some interesting similarities here.

I mean, Kirk himself imploded in 2016. Remember what he said about Duckworth's heritage? As long as Donnelly stays away from attacking his opponent's parents, he has a fighting chance, just as Kirk did before he put his foot in his mouth.

My memory didn't tell me that Giannoulis imploded...


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on May 31, 2017, 06:32:40 PM
Well, he has four and a half hours...


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: krazen1211 on May 31, 2017, 07:06:55 PM
Anonymous Senator in a state that favors the other party who only won because his opponent in his first race imploded and who we're told shouldn't be underestimated because he's a moderate and he's likely to face a mediocre opponent. Sounds familiar...

....I don't think I follow. Pryor? Blanche? Um... Begich? Udall? Kirk? Help me out here plz
I'm not too sure, but I can try to help you: It sounds like he's talking about a male Senator (his, he) who served only one term. Udall is far from a moderate and if anything, Colorado favors Democrats.
I think he's talking about Begich.

Using Begich to argue that Donnelly will lose is pretty silly, considering that Begich came close to winning in a very Republican year.

I wasn't talking about Begich but rather about the former Senator from the state that neighbors Indiana. :P I'm not saying Donnelly will lose that badly, though, I just think there are some interesting similarities here.

I mean, Kirk himself imploded in 2016. Remember what he said about Duckworth's heritage? As long as Donnelly stays away from attacking his opponent's parents, he has a fighting chance, just as Kirk did before he put his foot in his mouth.

My memory didn't tell me that Giannoulis imploded...

His family's bank went under in 2010...at a time when bankers were not popular.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on June 01, 2017, 06:00:38 PM
Messer says he will make an official decision “in the next couple months.” It does sound like both he and Rokita will run though. Rokita is expected to announce in the early summer. AG Curtis Hill and State Rep. Mike Braun are also looking at a potential run.

http://cbs4indy.com/2017/05/31/television-ads-hint-at-whats-to-come-for-indianas-2018-u-s-senate-race/
http://howeypolitics.com/Files/HPI170525.pdf#page=10


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on June 01, 2017, 09:19:48 PM
Messer says he will make an official decision “in the next couple months.” It does sound like both he and Rokita will run though. Rokita is expected to announce in the early summer. AG Curtis Hill and State Rep. Mike Braun are also looking at a potential run.

http://cbs4indy.com/2017/05/31/television-ads-hint-at-whats-to-come-for-indianas-2018-u-s-senate-race/
http://howeypolitics.com/Files/HPI170525.pdf#page=10

Beautiful. I hope this is a dumpster fire.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Shameless Lefty Hack on June 01, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
Messer says he will make an official decision “in the next couple months.” It does sound like both he and Rokita will run though. Rokita is expected to announce in the early summer. AG Curtis Hill and State Rep. Mike Braun are also looking at a potential run.

http://cbs4indy.com/2017/05/31/television-ads-hint-at-whats-to-come-for-indianas-2018-u-s-senate-race/
http://howeypolitics.com/Files/HPI170525.pdf#page=10

Beautiful. I hope this is a dumpster fire.

Curtis Hill just got elected this cycle against no real effective opposition. I'll be amused to see what kind of campaign he runs in an honest-to-goodness cutthroat primary.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on July 13, 2017, 09:27:31 AM
Rough story from AP on Sen. Donnelly: "AP Exclusive: Senator profits from outsourcing he slams"

Quote
An Indiana senator railed against Carrier Corp. for moving manufacturing jobs to Mexico last year, even as he profited from a family business that relies on Mexican labor to produce dye for ink pads, according to records reviewed by The Associated Press.

Joe Donnelly, considered one of the nation’s most vulnerable Democratic senators up for re-election next year, has long blasted free-trade policies for killing American jobs. He accused Carrier, an air conditioner and furnace maker, of exploiting $3-an-hour workers when it announced plans to wind down operations in Indiana and move to Mexico.

However, an arts and crafts business Donnelly’s family has owned for generations is capitalizing on some of the very trade policies — and low-paid foreign labor — the senator has denounced.

https://apnews.com/6d7d48ba7ae3420982c313192549805f


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Brittain33 on July 13, 2017, 10:00:44 AM
Rough story from AP on Sen. Donnelly: "AP Exclusive: Senator profits from outsourcing he slams"

Quote
An Indiana senator railed against Carrier Corp. for moving manufacturing jobs to Mexico last year, even as he profited from a family business that relies on Mexican labor to produce dye for ink pads, according to records reviewed by The Associated Press.

Joe Donnelly, considered one of the nation’s most vulnerable Democratic senators up for re-election next year, has long blasted free-trade policies for killing American jobs. He accused Carrier, an air conditioner and furnace maker, of exploiting $3-an-hour workers when it announced plans to wind down operations in Indiana and move to Mexico.

However, an arts and crafts business Donnelly’s family has owned for generations is capitalizing on some of the very trade policies — and low-paid foreign labor — the senator has denounced.

https://apnews.com/6d7d48ba7ae3420982c313192549805f

Given the Trump family's success with "America First" while hawking cheap ties and dresses made in China with their names literally on them I wonder if these charges stick.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: windjammer on July 13, 2017, 10:07:46 AM
Rough story from AP on Sen. Donnelly: "AP Exclusive: Senator profits from outsourcing he slams"

Quote
An Indiana senator railed against Carrier Corp. for moving manufacturing jobs to Mexico last year, even as he profited from a family business that relies on Mexican labor to produce dye for ink pads, according to records reviewed by The Associated Press.

Joe Donnelly, considered one of the nation’s most vulnerable Democratic senators up for re-election next year, has long blasted free-trade policies for killing American jobs. He accused Carrier, an air conditioner and furnace maker, of exploiting $3-an-hour workers when it announced plans to wind down operations in Indiana and move to Mexico.

However, an arts and crafts business Donnelly’s family has owned for generations is capitalizing on some of the very trade policies — and low-paid foreign labor — the senator has denounced.

https://apnews.com/6d7d48ba7ae3420982c313192549805f

Given the Trump family's success with "America First" while hawking cheap ties and dresses made in China with their names literally on them I wonder if these charges stick.
Probably not to be honest.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Beet on July 13, 2017, 10:08:42 AM
Rough story from AP on Sen. Donnelly: "AP Exclusive: Senator profits from outsourcing he slams"

Quote
An Indiana senator railed against Carrier Corp. for moving manufacturing jobs to Mexico last year, even as he profited from a family business that relies on Mexican labor to produce dye for ink pads, according to records reviewed by The Associated Press.

Joe Donnelly, considered one of the nation’s most vulnerable Democratic senators up for re-election next year, has long blasted free-trade policies for killing American jobs. He accused Carrier, an air conditioner and furnace maker, of exploiting $3-an-hour workers when it announced plans to wind down operations in Indiana and move to Mexico.

However, an arts and crafts business Donnelly’s family has owned for generations is capitalizing on some of the very trade policies — and low-paid foreign labor — the senator has denounced.

https://apnews.com/6d7d48ba7ae3420982c313192549805f

Given the Trump family's success with "America First" while hawking cheap ties and dresses made in China with their names literally on them I wonder if these charges stick.
Probably not to be honest.

He can mitigate it by coming out hard for protectionism.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on July 13, 2017, 10:22:31 AM
Rough story from AP on Sen. Donnelly: "AP Exclusive: Senator profits from outsourcing he slams"

Quote
An Indiana senator railed against Carrier Corp. for moving manufacturing jobs to Mexico last year, even as he profited from a family business that relies on Mexican labor to produce dye for ink pads, according to records reviewed by The Associated Press.

Joe Donnelly, considered one of the nation’s most vulnerable Democratic senators up for re-election next year, has long blasted free-trade policies for killing American jobs. He accused Carrier, an air conditioner and furnace maker, of exploiting $3-an-hour workers when it announced plans to wind down operations in Indiana and move to Mexico.

However, an arts and crafts business Donnelly’s family has owned for generations is capitalizing on some of the very trade policies — and low-paid foreign labor — the senator has denounced.

https://apnews.com/6d7d48ba7ae3420982c313192549805f

Bad look, but I'm not sure how much or little voters care about the business practices of a senator's brother.

It's stranger to me that he owns shares valued at 50,000, but received a dividend of between 16,000 and 50,000. That's a pretty high div % relative to the value of the stock.

As for the race itself, this was already a seat that was going to be decided by slim margins. Something like this certainly doesn't help.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on July 14, 2017, 12:39:28 PM
Seung Min Kim @seungminkim
Wow-@SenDonnelly says he's selling stock in brother's company after AP revealed it uses Mexican labor as Donnelly rails against outsourcing

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/885904866589147140


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Pollster on July 18, 2017, 07:04:46 PM
Ran a GCS poll of Donnelly vs. Rokita. Raw results were 25-20 Donnelly. Undecided was 36 (19 said unlikely/unregistered to vote). Will weight results when I have more time on my hands.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on July 18, 2017, 10:54:52 PM
https://twitter.com/KimberlyRailey/status/887372526036422657


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on July 20, 2017, 06:07:57 PM
https://twitter.com/KimberlyRailey/status/887372526036422657

Not sure what Messer was thinking moving out of Indiana consider how much hay was made about Bayh's residency. Could be enough for Rokita to be favored.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on July 21, 2017, 01:51:28 AM
https://twitter.com/KimberlyRailey/status/887372526036422657

Not sure what Messer was thinking moving out of Indiana consider how much hay was made about Bayh's residency. Could be enough for Rokita to be favored.

Very bad look for Messer.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: SATW on July 21, 2017, 02:16:20 PM
What a pathetic recruiting season its been for the GOP.

I like Messer, but he's a fool for moving out of Indiana. I dislike Rokita, though :(


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on July 22, 2017, 11:26:34 PM
lol Rokita says natural disasters are "God's will":

()

Well, I guess it's a step up from rape.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on July 22, 2017, 11:56:03 PM
I don't really see a problem with that.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on July 23, 2017, 12:00:51 AM
I don't really see a problem with that.

The average Hoosier voter isn't going to have a problem with it, either. Atheists on the left might chuckle, but otherwise, it's a big bowl of "meh."


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: _ on July 23, 2017, 12:03:19 AM
This isn't bad at all, maybe a tad overreligious, but I see nothing wrong.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on July 23, 2017, 12:18:06 AM
The main difference from the rape comments were that they used God as an excuse for the behaviors of man in promoting a pro-choice policy stance. Here, it's just semantics.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: windjammer on July 23, 2017, 09:40:26 AM
Honestly Messer definitely seems to be a better candidate than Rokita. Rokita seems to be the kind of evangelical moron saying cringeworthy things killing his campaign.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on July 23, 2017, 07:06:19 PM
Neither seems particularly good. Messer is going to be killed for living in D.C. and being part of the leadership. Rokita would probably be a little better, but is more gaffe-prone. Either way, Donnelly seems to be the slight favorite so far. Still a toss-up.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on July 23, 2017, 07:17:48 PM
Of all the vulnerable senators, Donnelly is the most anonymous. A bitter republican primary should give him time to define himself rather than his opponent doing so


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: JMT on July 23, 2017, 10:12:20 PM
Does anyone else get the sense Messer may get cold feet and decide not to run? He was supposed to decide by May, and now it is almost August and we haven't heard anything. Messer is young and could rise up in House leadership, and would definitely win reelection. He may want to avoid a tough primary with Rokita (especially considering the whole Messer residency issue) and a close general election against Donnelly in a Trump midterm. While Messer could still run, maybe he will come to the same conclusion as Ann Wagner in Missouri and decide it's not worth it. That's just something I thought of, Messer very well may still run for Senate for all I know


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on July 23, 2017, 10:18:42 PM
Does anyone else get the sense Messer may get cold feet and decide not to run? He was supposed to decide by May, and now it is almost August and we haven't heard anything. Messer is young and could rise up in House leadership, and would definitely win reelection. He may want to avoid a tough primary with Rokita (especially considering the whole Messer residency issue) and a close general election against Donnelly in a Trump midterm. While Messer could still run, maybe he will come to the same conclusion as Ann Wagner in Missouri and decide it's not worth it. That's just something I thought of, Messer very well may still run for Senate for all I know
He could still enter, but at this point, it is very likely he goes Ann Wagner and says no. In addition to the residency issue and a tough primary, you have to remember, as noted before, that he's very well positioned in the House: Unlike Wagner, he has a VERY safe district that wont be targeted, and he's near the top of leadership, with a very plausible path to the speakership.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 25, 2017, 05:01:00 PM
Sounds like Messer's in tomorrow. (https://twitter.com/PoliticoKevin/status/889968060274290688)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Coraxion on July 25, 2017, 05:03:03 PM
As someone who doesn't know much about Indiana politics, is this good news or bad news for Donnelly?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: windjammer on July 25, 2017, 05:04:17 PM
As someone who doesn't know much about Indiana politics, is this good news or bad news for Donnelly?
Messer seems to be an establishment type, no idea about his skills.
Probably better than Rokita.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on July 25, 2017, 07:21:00 PM
As someone who doesn't know much about Indiana politics, is this good news or bad news for Donnelly?

Bad news for Donnelly provided he can find a way to get past the residency issue which is huge in Indiana. Messer is the strongest of the three candidates who have been realistically looking at running (along with Rokita and Curtis Hill). He will have strength in the primary as well because he has the backing of the Pence people and at least some of Todd Young's circle, which will help him get donors on board. Curtis Hill is too unknown despite his landslide record breaking victory, and Rokita is slimy and prone to making minor gaffes.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on July 25, 2017, 07:30:04 PM
I think Messer might be the only guy who is blander than Donnelly. Plus, Messer is a total establishment goon in an environment that doesn't favor such candidates.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: RogueBeaver on July 26, 2017, 11:25:20 AM
Messer's in, kickoff at his family BBQ next month. (https://twitter.com/LukeMesserIN/status/890234428902998020)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: krazen1211 on July 26, 2017, 03:19:47 PM
I believe this is a Republican pickup.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Figueira on July 26, 2017, 03:22:11 PM
The Republicans are favored here, but not by a huge amount.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Mike Thick on July 26, 2017, 03:34:39 PM
Hot take: Messer is more likely to lose the general than Rokita.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on July 26, 2017, 03:39:46 PM
Hot take: Messer is more likely to lose the general than Rokita.
Agreed.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on July 26, 2017, 04:53:35 PM
Hot take: Messer is more likely to lose the general than Rokita.
Agreed.

Eh I would say they are pretty equal. Neither veers much from the conservative orthodoxy although Romina is more aligned with the tea party and Messer is more establishment. Both have been described as libertarian republicans, although to this day I can't figure out why.  Messer is rather bland and Rokita is less bland but is pretty unlikeable. Rokita has been elected to statewide office but both have pretty low name recognition. I'm rooting for Messer, I think he and Young would make a good senate team. Messer seems a tad bit more pragmatic than Rokita, although both are to the right of Young.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Coraxion on July 26, 2017, 04:56:03 PM
Hack. Per usual.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: SATW on July 26, 2017, 05:14:26 PM
I'll be backing Messer, but I'd prefer if he didn't run. He doesn't seem ready.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon on July 26, 2017, 05:25:15 PM
#reelectdonnelly


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on July 26, 2017, 08:26:40 PM
Hot take: Messer is more likely to lose the general than Rokita.
Agreed.

Nope.

And frankly, R+1 seems about right. Donnelly might be able to pull it out, but he was basically a warm body in 2012 before Lugar lost his primary. Yeah, Donnelly's been putting in work, but this is going to be uphill and if Messer makes it to the general, which is not a given, he should clean up nice.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: I’m not Stu on July 26, 2017, 09:47:17 PM
Messer is in (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/politics/indiana-rep-luke-messer-announces-2018-senate-bid).


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on July 26, 2017, 10:13:52 PM
Hot take: Messer is more likely to lose the general than Rokita.
Agreed.

Eh I would say they are pretty equal. Neither veers much from the conservative orthodoxy although Romina is more aligned with the tea party and Messer is more establishment. Both have been described as libertarian republicans, although to this day I can't figure out why.  Messer is rather bland and Rokita is less bland but is pretty unlikeable. Rokita has been elected to statewide office but both have pretty low name recognition. I'm rooting for Messer, I think he and Young would make a good senate team. Messer seems a tad bit more pragmatic than Rokita, although both are to the right of Young.

Messer seems like he'll get pummeled for living out of state and -separately- working in lobbying in between his time in the Indiana House and the 6th District.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on August 02, 2017, 08:35:38 PM
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/02/senate-slugfest-9-fights-so-far-indianas-bare-knuckle-us-senate-race/525108001/

Good article from the Star


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MarkD on August 02, 2017, 09:05:22 PM
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/02/senate-slugfest-9-fights-so-far-indianas-bare-knuckle-us-senate-race/525108001/

Good article from the Star

Yes, good article.

The story of Rokita and Messer attacking each other, even though they're not the only candidates running for the GOP nomination, reminds me of how Russ Feingold came from way behind to win the Democratic nomination for the Senate in 1992. It's a story I've always thought was fascinating, amusing, and insightful. If Poli Sci departments have not been teaching students about that story for the last 25 years, they ought to start teaching it.
Early in 1992, Russ Feingold was a little-know state senator in Wisconsin, who, according to the polling, was in a distant third place behind two major, wealthy candidates: Rep. Jim Moody and businessman Joe Checota. Throughout the primary season, Moody and Checota each assumed that the other was their main opponent in the primary, and they attacked each other viciously, repeatedly, in their TV ads. Feingold ran a positive campaign, emphasizing his good qualities, and the only negative thing he ever said about Moody and Checota was to point out how they were slinging so much mud at each other. Feingold's strategy worked like a charm, while Moody and Checota succeeded only at making each other look terrible. Feingold ended up with a huge 70% win, and Checota and Moody were virtually tied for a distant second place at about 14% each.

Likewise, for Rokita and Messer to attack each other as often as they appear to be willing to do, is a strategy that can backfire, and it could easily lead to a win by someone like Mike Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 02, 2017, 10:13:10 PM
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/02/senate-slugfest-9-fights-so-far-indianas-bare-knuckle-us-senate-race/525108001/

Good article from the Star

Yes, good article.

The story of Rokita and Messer attacking each other, even though they're not the only candidates running for the GOP nomination, reminds me of how Russ Feingold came from way behind to win the Democratic nomination for the Senate in 1992. It's a story I've always thought was fascinating, amusing, and insightful. If Poli Sci departments have not been teaching students about that story for the last 25 years, they ought to start teaching it.
Early in 1992, Russ Feingold was a little-know state senator in Wisconsin, who, according to the polling, was in a distant third place behind two major, wealthy candidates: Rep. Jim Moody and businessman Joe Checota. Throughout the primary season, Moody and Checota each assumed that the other was their main opponent in the primary, and they attacked each other viciously, repeatedly, in their TV ads. Feingold ran a positive campaign, emphasizing his good qualities, and the only negative thing he ever said about Moody and Checota was to point out how they were slinging so much mud at each other. Feingold's strategy worked like a charm, while Moody and Checota succeeded only at making each other look terrible. Feingold ended up with a huge 70% win, and Checota and Moody were virtually tied for a distant second place at about 14% each.

Likewise, for Rokita and Messer to attack each other as often as they appear to be willing to do, is a strategy that can backfire, and it could easily lead to a win by someone like Mike Braun.

The cynic in me doesn't believe that strategy could work in today's environment. Regardless, it's an interesting story - thanks!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: libertpaulian on August 03, 2017, 07:05:55 AM
So, Messer's in...

...does this mean we'll be hearing from John Morgan in FL soon?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on August 08, 2017, 10:12:46 PM
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/08/rep-todd-rokita-embraces-trump-he-launches-indiana-senate-bid/550882001/

Rokita is in! Great news for Donnelly. The more messy the GOP primary is, the better.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: _ on August 08, 2017, 10:14:04 PM
and so it begins, IN-2012 redux.

WHO WILL BE THE NEW MOURDOCK


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on August 08, 2017, 11:06:41 PM
and so it begins, IN-2012 redux.

WHO WILL BE THE NEW MOURDOCK

Messer should do fine if he makes it through, but Rokita...

I can't over state how much I dislike Messer. I know for a fact Keith Ellison slept in his office when he first got to Congress because he couldn't afford to live in the District. Messer, meanwhile, went out and bought a bunch of $3,000 suits, while the median district of IN-06 is $50,588.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MarkD on August 08, 2017, 11:08:41 PM
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/08/rep-todd-rokita-embraces-trump-he-launches-indiana-senate-bid/550882001/

Rokita is in! Great news for Donnelly. The more messy the GOP primary is, the better.

This is similar to what I was suggesting before, except that I was saying that maybe neither Rokita or Messer will win the primary because of how much they attack each other, making each other look so bad that Indiana Republicans will look to someone else who runs a more respectable campaign.

The story of Rokita and Messer attacking each other, even though they're not the only candidates running for the GOP nomination, reminds me of how Russ Feingold came from way behind to win the Democratic nomination for the Senate in 1992. It's a story I've always thought was fascinating, amusing, and insightful. If Poli Sci departments have not been teaching students about that story for the last 25 years, they ought to start teaching it.
Early in 1992, Russ Feingold was a little-know state senator in Wisconsin, who, according to the polling, was in a distant third place behind two major, wealthy candidates: Rep. Jim Moody and businessman Joe Checota. Throughout the primary season, Moody and Checota each assumed that the other was their main opponent in the primary, and they attacked each other viciously, repeatedly, in their TV ads. Feingold ran a positive campaign, emphasizing his good qualities, and the only negative thing he ever said about Moody and Checota was to point out how they were slinging so much mud at each other. Feingold's strategy worked like a charm, while Moody and Checota succeeded only at making each other look terrible. Feingold ended up with a huge 70% win, and Checota and Moody were virtually tied for a distant second place at about 14% each.

Likewise, for Rokita and Messer to attack each other as often as they appear to be willing to do, is a strategy that can backfire, and it could easily lead to a win by someone like Mike Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Coraxion on August 08, 2017, 11:39:06 PM
As a Democrat, I'm feeling pretty confident about this seat - and I definitely did not feel the same way in, say, December.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Lachi on August 08, 2017, 11:49:47 PM
If Rokita wins the primary, Donnelly will be fine.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Mike Thick on August 08, 2017, 11:54:52 PM
Messer, meanwhile, went out and bought a bunch of $3,000 suits, while the median district of IN-06 is $50,588.

Leaked footage of Messer on the job (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=81Nl7VYFEaI)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on August 13, 2017, 06:44:17 PM
Young had a rough primary with Stutzman in 2016 and it didn't stop him from beating the most successful democratic politician of the last half century in Indiana in a ten point landslide.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 16, 2017, 09:17:13 AM
Politico on Messer-Rokita: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/todd-rokita-luke-messer-indiana-primary-241622


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on September 01, 2017, 05:42:16 PM
Howey's take on the race, he thinks it's Lean Democrat (http://www.pharostribune.com/opinion/columns/article_05e6feff-ee0a-5c40-9929-21d09a9b3f06.html)

I agree with some of his points, honestly. Donnelly will probably be up by a lot in the first public polls.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on September 01, 2017, 05:50:48 PM
Donnelly's all steak and no sizzle. He's inoffensive and a very solid senator. If this was a Clinton midterm he'd be severely disadvantaged, but in Trump's midterm I think he's got an advantage.

I think, in general, he's very similar to Rob Portman, in the lack of glitz and focus on being a good fit for the state.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon on September 01, 2017, 05:53:12 PM
Indiana Dems are favored to lose until polls show otherwise, but Donnelly has a far better chance than Generic D would.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on September 01, 2017, 05:54:16 PM
Donnelly's all steak and no sizzle. He's inoffensive and a very solid senator. If this was a Clinton midterm he'd be severely disadvantaged, but in Trump's midterm I think he's got an advantage.

I think, in general, he's very similar to Rob Portman, in the lack of glitz and focus on being a good fit for the state.

Basically this. Hoosiers prefer republicans but will vote for a "good" democrat over a "meh" republican. Nobody hates Joe Donnelly. I think tossup is more accurate though with a very slight edge to Donnelly.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on September 02, 2017, 12:22:59 PM
I'm considering moving this from "Toss-up" to "Tilt-D". I think Donnelly has done a great job projecting his moderate positions to the state, while also staying vigilant in the resistance. Also the R-Primary being a complete sh*tshow helps.

Also: http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/01/former-aides-say-rep-todd-rokita-yelled-staff-docked-pay/624152001/

lol


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on September 02, 2017, 12:48:33 PM
Donnelly's all steak and no sizzle. He's inoffensive and a very solid senator. If this was a Clinton midterm he'd be severely disadvantaged, but in Trump's midterm I think he's got an advantage.

I think, in general, he's very similar to Rob Portman, in the lack of glitz and focus on being a good fit for the state.

Basically this. Hoosiers prefer republicans but will vote for a "good" democrat over a "meh" republican. Nobody hates Joe Donnelly. I think tossup is more accurate though with a very slight edge to Donnelly.

What do you think a public poll would show right now? Donnelly +12? Too bad that IN, ND, MT and PA all haven't been polled yet.

Wild guess I would say Donnelly +5-10. He is not well known enough to be up by 20+ points.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on September 02, 2017, 12:49:28 PM
I'm considering moving this from "Toss-up" to "Tilt-D". I think Donnelly has done a great job projecting his moderate positions to the state, while also staying vigilant in the resistance. Also the R-Primary being a complete sh*tshow helps.

Also: http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/01/former-aides-say-rep-todd-rokita-yelled-staff-docked-pay/624152001/

lol

Rokita is terrible. He's unpleasant to be around.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: windjammer on September 02, 2017, 01:17:05 PM
Howey's take on the race, he thinks it's Lean Democrat (http://www.pharostribune.com/opinion/columns/article_05e6feff-ee0a-5c40-9929-21d09a9b3f06.html)

I agree with some of his points, honestly. Donnelly will probably be up by a lot in the first public polls.
Yeah honestly even if it is toss up, it's more tilt dem than tilt rep for now. Donnelly is underrated and Rokita/Messer don't seem to be great candidates like Todd Young.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: KingSweden on September 02, 2017, 03:34:10 PM
Young had a rough primary with Stutzman in 2016 and it didn't stop him from beating the most successful democratic politician of the last half century in Indiana in a ten point landslide.

TBF didn't Bayh have some pretty extreme liabilities with his residency gaffes? Took down Luger, too.

(Pro tip, aspiring pols: live in your goddamn home state)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Maxwell on September 02, 2017, 03:37:58 PM
Young had a rough primary with Stutzman in 2016 and it didn't stop him from beating the most successful democratic politician of the last half century in Indiana in a ten point landslide.

TBF didn't Bayh have some pretty extreme liabilities with his residency gaffes? Took down Luger, too.

(Pro tip, aspiring pols: live in your goddamn home state)

residency issues were the least of Bayh's problems, which ultimately was him being a gignatic swamp monster who left the Senate to become a major lobbyist and then running back to Indiana for an electoral gig. Hint hint that never works.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: windjammer on September 02, 2017, 03:59:16 PM
Howey's take on the race, he thinks it's Lean Democrat (http://www.pharostribune.com/opinion/columns/article_05e6feff-ee0a-5c40-9929-21d09a9b3f06.html)

I agree with some of his points, honestly. Donnelly will probably be up by a lot in the first public polls.
Yeah honestly even if it is toss up, it's more tilt dem than tilt rep for now. Donnelly is underrated and Rokita/Messer don't seem to be great candidates like Todd Young.

Yeah, though I still think it's the most likely Democratic-held seat to flip after MO. Sure, they have a very good chance in MT, but Tester's floor is too high for MT to be more likely to flip than IN IMO. And Heitkamp and Manchin are way too popular and better known than Donnelly.
Oh I definitely agree with this sentiment.

Regarding MT, I think it's a bit too early to have any feelings about the outcome of the race.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on September 02, 2017, 04:11:13 PM
Oh I definitely agree with this sentiment.

Regarding MT, I think it's a bit too early to have any feelings about the outcome of the race.

Oh, sure. I won't feel 100% confident about Republican chances here until I see the checkmark next to the Republican candidate's name. I definitely believe it's a Tossup, though (even if early polling will indicate otherwise)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: I’m not Stu on September 03, 2017, 06:26:42 PM
Who wins the primary, Rokita or Messer?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on September 03, 2017, 08:18:03 PM
Who wins the primary, Rokita or Messer?

Absolute Tossup until we see some polling. Messer would be my preference. Rokita is probably better known because he has won statewide in the past. Messer will get more establishment backing.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MarkD on September 03, 2017, 08:57:15 PM
Who wins the primary, Rokita or Messer?

Maybe neither.
As I've pointed out before on this thread, Rokita and Messer engaging in a fierce fight with each other could end up making them both look so bad that one of the other candidates in this race - someone we might look at now as likely to come in third place - might be able to beat both of them. Someone like state Rep. Mike Braun might end up winning the primary because a war between the two congressmen ruins both of their images.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on September 20, 2017, 03:44:26 PM
Susan Brooks endorses Luke Messer.

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Press-Release--Susan-Brooks-Endorses-Luke-Messer-.html?soid=1123214391458&aid=cV0NtqoURWE


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on October 21, 2017, 03:23:12 PM
Braun launches a Super PAC. (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/19/group-no-spending-limit-created-help-mike-braun-win-gop-senate-primary/781559001/)
And will resign from the State House to focus on his campaign. (https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/braun-to-resign-state-house-seat-amid-us-senate-run)

Edit: Fixed broken link.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cactus Jack on October 21, 2017, 03:26:54 PM
Braun launches a Super PAC. (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/19/group-no-spending-limit-created-help-mike-braun-win-gop-senate-primary/781559001/)
[urlhttps://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/braun-to-resign-state-house-seat-amid-us-senate-run]And will resign from the State House to focus on his campaign.[/url]

Call me crazy, but Braun worries me more than either of the big names currently gunning for the seat. Messer and Rokita have national profiles that Donnelly can use against them, but Braun is a local politician running an anti-establishment campaign.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MarkD on October 21, 2017, 03:39:05 PM
Braun could learn something from the campaign tactics of Russ Feingold in 1992, per the story I posted about before on this thread, on August 2.

Run a positive campaign about himself, never mentioning Messer or Rokita except to point out the fact that they are running extremely negative campaigns against each other.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kingpoleon on October 21, 2017, 08:59:14 PM
Greg Ballard, Mitch Daniels, or a former Daniels ally could beat Donnelly, such as Bill Oesterle or Murray Clark. That said, Curtis Hill seems much stronger than Rokita or Messer.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Maxwell on October 21, 2017, 09:01:23 PM
yeah I definitely think both Messer and Rotika could blow it and allow Braun to win the nomination. Messer is aggressively anti-charismatic and mediocre and Rotika is aggressively unlikable and a diva and both HATE eachother.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on October 24, 2017, 02:26:17 PM
Quote
Only 38 percent of 600 adult Hoosiers surveyed for the Old National Bank/Ball State University 2017 Hoosier Survey recognized the names of Reps. Todd Rokita, R-Brownsburg, and Luke Messer, R-Shelbyville. [...]

The two have attacked each other early and often. But while the sparring has been covered by the media, the candidates haven't aired extensive television ads that would boost their profile.

“Clearly, we can expect Rokita and Messer to continue working to make their names known to the 60 percent of Hoosiers who say they haven’t heard of them,” said Charles Taylor, managing director of the Bowen Center for Public Affairs, which conducts the annual public opinion survey.

Donnelly, who served six years in the House before being elected to the Senate in 2012, was recognized by nearly 70 percent.

Among respondents who had heard of Donnelly, 32 percent said there was a “good chance” they would vote for him. For Rokita and Messer, the percentages are 27 and 21 respectively.  

The survey was conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International (PSRAI) from Oct. 2 through Oct. 15. The margin of error for the name recognition question was 5.3 percentage points.

Full results of the survey will be released Nov. 9.

Link. (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/24/poll-gop-challengers-donnelly-not-well-known-despite-being-congressmen/794120001/)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on October 24, 2017, 05:58:02 PM
Why would they wait so long to release the full results? Strange.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on October 24, 2017, 07:07:20 PM
32% of people who'd heard of Donnelly seems like a bad result for his campaign.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on October 24, 2017, 07:26:03 PM
32% of people who'd heard of Donnelly seems like a bad result for his campaign.

32/70. Which isn't bad because this is basically a generic poll. 47% of New Yorkers say they would vote to reelect Cuomo against an unnnamed opponent, but that number always goes up when an opponent is named

That's reasonable.

 It's not clear to me in this article if respondents are only able to choose one candidate or if they can say there's a good chance they'd vote for more than one candidate. Either way, I look forward to the crosstabs on this.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on October 26, 2017, 08:23:11 AM
Another interesting factoid from that poll was Trump's approval rating here is 41/45. Definitely going down. Curious if that will pull down Messer/Rokita's numbers.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on November 03, 2017, 09:22:20 PM
FWIW, Donnelly has a primary challenger. His challenger, a veteran named Martin Del Rio, only has a website and a facebook page I believe. However, I haven't found any policy positions, and coincidentally the two things he vaguely mentioned (veteran issues and being bi-partisan) are two of Donnelly's strongest issues. Seems weird.

Overall, I'm not worried at all. He would be lucky to get 15%.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=6831246 (This is his personal page with his announcement video, he hasn't done anything on his campaign page yet)

http://www.martindelrio.com/


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: MT Treasurer on November 10, 2017, 12:12:19 AM
Quote
Only 38 percent of 600 adult Hoosiers surveyed for the Old National Bank/Ball State University 2017 Hoosier Survey recognized the names of Reps. Todd Rokita, R-Brownsburg, and Luke Messer, R-Shelbyville. [...]

The two have attacked each other early and often. But while the sparring has been covered by the media, the candidates haven't aired extensive television ads that would boost their profile.

“Clearly, we can expect Rokita and Messer to continue working to make their names known to the 60 percent of Hoosiers who say they haven’t heard of them,” said Charles Taylor, managing director of the Bowen Center for Public Affairs, which conducts the annual public opinion survey.

Donnelly, who served six years in the House before being elected to the Senate in 2012, was recognized by nearly 70 percent.

Among respondents who had heard of Donnelly, 32 percent said there was a “good chance” they would vote for him. For Rokita and Messer, the percentages are 27 and 21 respectively.  

The survey was conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International (PSRAI) from Oct. 2 through Oct. 15. The margin of error for the name recognition question was 5.3 percentage points.

Full results of the survey will be released Nov. 9.

Link. (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/24/poll-gop-challengers-donnelly-not-well-known-despite-being-congressmen/794120001/)

This poll has been released, btw: (http://bowencenterforpublicaffairs.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2017-Hoosier-Survey-Topline.pdf)

Holcomb approval: 51/13 (+38)
Trump approval: 41/45 (-4)
Pence approval: 50/37 (+13)

Joe Donnelly

25% Have heard of him/Good chance that I will vote for him
23% Have heard of him/Some chance that I will vote for him
16% Have heard of him/No chance that I will vote him
16% Have heard of him/ Don’t know if would vote for him
19% Have not heard of him

Luke Messer

8% Have heard of him/Good chance that I will vote for him
12% Have heard of him/Some chance that I will vote for him
9% Have heard of him/No chance that I will vote him
9% Have heard of him/ Don’t know if would vote for him
59% Have not heard of him

Todd Rokita

11% Have heard of him/Good chance that I will vote for him
9% Have heard of him/Some chance that I will vote for him
10% Have heard of him/No chance that I will vote him
9% Have heard of him/ Don’t know if would vote for him
60% Have not heard of him


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on November 10, 2017, 12:15:59 AM
So Donnelly has about (with leaners) 48%? That's pretty good.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on November 10, 2017, 09:00:23 AM
A few thoughts: 1) it's awful for Rokita that his name recognition is 41% and within the margin of error with Messer. The former was Secretary of State for 8 years in Indiana and should have a higher name recognition than he currently does. I still think the primary favors Messer. 2) Donnelly at 48 with leaners is a good sign for him, especially with only 16% conclusively saying they won't vote for him. 3) Holcomb is already safe R in 2020. Challenging him would be a suicide mission (hint, hint, Buttigeg. Don't run yet, wait for it to be open in '24).


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: libertpaulian on November 11, 2017, 10:35:57 PM
A few thoughts: 1) it's awful for Rokita that his name recognition is 41% and within the margin of error with Messer. The former was Secretary of State for 8 years in Indiana and should have a higher name recognition than he currently does. I still think the primary favors Messer. 2) Donnelly at 48 with leaners is a good sign for him, especially with only 16% conclusively saying they won't vote for him. 3) Holcomb is already safe R in 2020. Challenging him would be a suicide mission (hint, hint, Buttigeg. Don't run yet, wait for it to be open in '24).
Pete should definitely wait until 2024.  Assuming the GOP wins in 2020, 2024 will be a blue typhoon that will make 2008 look like child's play.  That would be Pete's time to shine.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on November 13, 2017, 08:28:56 PM
A few thoughts: 1) it's awful for Rokita that his name recognition is 41% and within the margin of error with Messer. The former was Secretary of State for 8 years in Indiana and should have a higher name recognition than he currently does. I still think the primary favors Messer. 2) Donnelly at 48 with leaners is a good sign for him, especially with only 16% conclusively saying they won't vote for him. 3) Holcomb is already safe R in 2020. Challenging him would be a suicide mission (hint, hint, Buttigeg. Don't run yet, wait for it to be open in '24).
Pete should definitely wait until 2024.  Assuming the GOP wins in 2020, 2024 will be a blue typhoon that will make 2008 look like child's play.  That would be Pete's time to shine.


I'm rooting for Suzanne Crouch in 2024, but it might be tough to hold that office for 24 years.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on November 13, 2017, 08:34:02 PM
A few thoughts: 1) it's awful for Rokita that his name recognition is 41% and within the margin of error with Messer. The former was Secretary of State for 8 years in Indiana and should have a higher name recognition than he currently does. I still think the primary favors Messer. 2) Donnelly at 48 with leaners is a good sign for him, especially with only 16% conclusively saying they won't vote for him. 3) Holcomb is already safe R in 2020. Challenging him would be a suicide mission (hint, hint, Buttigeg. Don't run yet, wait for it to be open in '24).
Pete should definitely wait until 2024.  Assuming the GOP wins in 2020, 2024 will be a blue typhoon that will make 2008 look like child's play.  That would be Pete's time to shine.


I'm rooting for Suzanne Crouch in 2024, but it might be tough to hold that office for 24 years.

Crouch would also be pushing 75 by 2024. Plus, as you mention, it'd be really hard to hold the governor's mansion for 2 1/2 decades


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Kamala on November 13, 2017, 08:36:17 PM
Plus, as you mention, it'd be really hard to hold the governor's mansion for 2 1/2 decades

Here in South Dakota, if (more like when) Republicans win the 2018 election, it'll be 4 decades of their rule!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on December 01, 2017, 09:54:30 PM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cactus Jack on December 01, 2017, 10:16:23 PM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide

A Republican pol with honesty and integrity when it comes to the new-gen Neo-Nazis? Goddamn. Yeah, Donnelly has easily the most to fear from Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Heisenberg on December 01, 2017, 11:26:09 PM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide

A Republican pol with honesty and integrity when it comes to the new-gen Neo-Nazis? Goddamn. Yeah, Donnelly has easily the most to fear from Braun.
I think, probably, Braun just hired some random guy who he didn't know was a White Nationalist, then fired him when he found out. Nothing wrong, but I will say he should probably start vetting his aides.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cactus Jack on December 01, 2017, 11:37:26 PM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide

A Republican pol with honesty and integrity when it comes to the new-gen Neo-Nazis? Goddamn. Yeah, Donnelly has easily the most to fear from Braun.

I think, probably, Braun just hired some random guy who he didn't know was a White Nationalist, then fired him when he found out. Nothing wrong, but I will say he should probably start vetting his aides.

Oh, that's likely, but my point is that Braun is the sort of principled candidate that Donnelly needs to fear - the type that won't depress turnout among any Republican bloc except the hardcore deplorables who actually like white nationalists.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cactus Jack on December 01, 2017, 11:42:50 PM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide

A Republican pol with honesty and integrity when it comes to the new-gen Neo-Nazis? Goddamn. Yeah, Donnelly has easily the most to fear from Braun.

I think, probably, Braun just hired some random guy who he didn't know was a White Nationalist, then fired him when he found out. Nothing wrong, but I will say he should probably start vetting his aides.

Oh, that's likely, but my point is that Braun is the sort of principled candidate that Donnelly needs to fear - the type that won't depress turnout among any Republican bloc except the hardcore deplorables who actually like white nationalists.

You act as if rejecting white nationalism is a winning strategy in a GOP primary. Strange.

Edgy. :P But it is in Indiana, evidently. Pence aside, Indianans seem to prefer principled, mainstream conservatives like Young, Daniels, and Holcomb. It's why I highly doubt Rokita is going to be the nominee in any case (that and the fact that he's an aggressive asshole).


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cactus Jack on December 01, 2017, 11:46:22 PM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide

A Republican pol with honesty and integrity when it comes to the new-gen Neo-Nazis? Goddamn. Yeah, Donnelly has easily the most to fear from Braun.

I think, probably, Braun just hired some random guy who he didn't know was a White Nationalist, then fired him when he found out. Nothing wrong, but I will say he should probably start vetting his aides.

Oh, that's likely, but my point is that Braun is the sort of principled candidate that Donnelly needs to fear - the type that won't depress turnout among any Republican bloc except the hardcore deplorables who actually like white nationalists.

You act as if rejecting white nationalism is a winning strategy in a GOP primary. Strange.

Edgy. :P But it is in Indiana, evidently. Pence aside, Indianans seem to prefer principled, mainstream conservatives like Young, Daniels, and Holcomb. It's why I highly doubt Rokita is going to be the nominee in any case (that and the fact that he's an aggressive asshole).

How silly of you. That means Rokita is the prohibitive favorite in the GOP primary.

Tell that to Marlin Stutzman.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on December 04, 2017, 04:04:01 PM
Todd Rokita is introducing a bill in the House to imprison politicians that maintain sanctuary cities.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/after-steinle-verdict-rep-unveils-bill-to-imprison-officials-who-shelter-illegal-immigrants.amp.html


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Gass3268 on December 04, 2017, 04:07:05 PM
Todd Rokita is introducing a bill in the House to imprison politicians that maintain sanctuary cities.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/after-steinle-verdict-rep-unveils-bill-to-imprison-officials-who-shelter-illegal-immigrants.amp.html

What a nut.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Skunk on December 04, 2017, 04:09:03 PM
Todd Rokita is introducing a bill in the House to imprison politicians that maintain sanctuary cities.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/after-steinle-verdict-rep-unveils-bill-to-imprison-officials-who-shelter-illegal-immigrants.amp.html

What a nut.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on January 07, 2018, 10:55:40 PM
I completely missed that End Citizens United endorsed Donnelly...

https://twitter.com/StopBigMoney/status/949411801233543169


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on January 08, 2018, 07:37:05 AM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide

A Republican pol with honesty and integrity when it comes to the new-gen Neo-Nazis? Goddamn. Yeah, Donnelly has easily the most to fear from Braun.

I think, probably, Braun just hired some random guy who he didn't know was a White Nationalist, then fired him when he found out. Nothing wrong, but I will say he should probably start vetting his aides.

Oh, that's likely, but my point is that Braun is the sort of principled candidate that Donnelly needs to fear - the type that won't depress turnout among any Republican bloc except the hardcore deplorables who actually like white nationalists.

You act as if rejecting white nationalism is a winning strategy in a GOP primary. Strange.

Edgy. :P But it is in Indiana, evidently. Pence aside, Indianans seem to prefer principled, mainstream conservatives like Young, Daniels, and Holcomb. It's why I highly doubt Rokita is going to be the nominee in any case (that and the fact that he's an aggressive asshole).

How silly of you. That means Rokita is the prohibitive favorite in the GOP primary.

Tell that to Marlin Stutzman.

Tell that to Richard Lugar.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on January 08, 2018, 08:57:23 AM
Forgot to post this:

https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-senate-candidate-mike-braun-fired-white-nationalist-aide

A Republican pol with honesty and integrity when it comes to the new-gen Neo-Nazis? Goddamn. Yeah, Donnelly has easily the most to fear from Braun.

I think, probably, Braun just hired some random guy who he didn't know was a White Nationalist, then fired him when he found out. Nothing wrong, but I will say he should probably start vetting his aides.

Oh, that's likely, but my point is that Braun is the sort of principled candidate that Donnelly needs to fear - the type that won't depress turnout among any Republican bloc except the hardcore deplorables who actually like white nationalists.

You act as if rejecting white nationalism is a winning strategy in a GOP primary. Strange.

Edgy. :P But it is in Indiana, evidently. Pence aside, Indianans seem to prefer principled, mainstream conservatives like Young, Daniels, and Holcomb. It's why I highly doubt Rokita is going to be the nominee in any case (that and the fact that he's an aggressive asshole).

How silly of you. That means Rokita is the prohibitive favorite in the GOP primary.

Tell that to Marlin Stutzman.

Tell that to Richard Lugar.

Actually I think the memory of the lugar mourdock race helped Young in 2016, a lot of GOP primary voters realized they blew an easy win and didn’t want to repeat the mistake. I’m not sure if that will carry over into 2018, but there is a solid base of mainstream republicans that has retained more power in Indiana than in other states. Also as a side note, “Indianans” is incorrect and makes folks from here cringe. The correct term for a person from Indiana is a Hoosier.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: The Other Castro on January 11, 2018, 02:33:52 PM
Rokita and Braun accuse Messer of rigging a Senate straw poll.

Quote
U.S. Senate candidate Luke Messer is paying for college students to attend a state Republican party straw poll event on Saturday — a move his opponents are criticizing as vote rigging.

But Messer's campaign and the state's Republican party chairman are defending the tactic.

Emails and social media exchanges obtained by IndyStar show that Messer campaign staffers offered to cover registration and hotel costs for college students to attend the Indiana Republican Party's Congress of Counties conference.

The event takes place Friday and Saturday and will include a straw poll featuring all six GOP candidates running in Indiana's contentious U.S. Senate primary. The state party describes the straw poll as "the first grassroots barometer to measure early support in this high-profile, statewide race that has national implications."

More than 500 Republicans are expected to attend.

https://twitter.com/sfpathe/status/951513399363502081


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cactus Jack on January 11, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Yeah, Messer is definitely a Todd Youngian force of electoral nature.

Braun continues to be the strongest Republican going, and it's looking all the likelier he cuts up through the middle between Messer and Rokita.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on January 13, 2018, 09:54:12 PM
https://twitter.com/indgop/status/952253852484554752

Messer wins the strawpoll at the GOP meeting. About the result I'd expect looking at the Messer/Rokita/Braun ratio.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on January 14, 2018, 01:16:16 PM
https://twitter.com/indgop/status/952253852484554752

Messer wins the strawpoll at the GOP meeting. About the result I'd expect looking at the Messer/Rokita/Braun ratio.

Good result. Won’t matter much but it should be a good signal to GOP donors that Messer is their man.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on January 14, 2018, 10:09:33 PM
https://twitter.com/indgop/status/952253852484554752

Messer wins the strawpoll at the GOP meeting. About the result I'd expect looking at the Messer/Rokita/Braun ratio.

Good result. Won’t matter much but it should be a good signal to GOP donors that Messer is their man.

He's the man to the Indiana establishment. I'm not sure that his support from them will translate to the GOP grassroots. Have they learned their lesson? Maybe. But I'm skeptical.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on February 01, 2018, 09:45:21 AM
Q4 numbers:

Braun: 2 million (!!!)
Donnelly: 1.2 million
Messer: 430 thousand (!!!)
Rokita: hasn't posted his numbers yet...?

(source) https://howeypolitics.com/

Okay, I'm not sure how Rokita hasn't posted his numbers yet since we're past the filling deadline, but whatever. I know Braun is independently wealthy, but wow. 2 million? And Messer could only muster up 430 thousand? This is a three-way horserace. Definitely one to watch.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: _ on February 01, 2018, 10:17:20 AM
Q4 numbers:

Braun: 2 million (!!!)
Donnelly: 1.2 million
Messer: 430 thousand (!!!)
Rokita: hasn't posted his numbers yet...?

(source) https://howeypolitics.com/

Okay, I'm not sure how Rokita hasn't posted his numbers yet since we're past the filling deadline, but whatever. I know Braun is independently wealthy, but wow. 2 million? And Messer could only muster up 430 thousand? This is a three-way horserace. Definitely one to watch.


Go Braun!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: KingSweden on February 01, 2018, 11:43:43 AM
https://twitter.com/indgop/status/952253852484554752

Messer wins the strawpoll at the GOP meeting. About the result I'd expect looking at the Messer/Rokita/Braun ratio.

Is this the straw poll he was accused of rigging?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on February 01, 2018, 02:29:49 PM
https://twitter.com/indgop/status/952253852484554752

Messer wins the strawpoll at the GOP meeting. About the result I'd expect looking at the Messer/Rokita/Braun ratio.

Is this the straw poll he was accused of rigging?

Yes.

Also, Rokita comes up with 450 thousand, essentially nothing (lol.)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: KingSweden on February 01, 2018, 03:09:31 PM
Braun might seriously become the front runner soon


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: TheRocketRaccoon on February 02, 2018, 09:18:20 AM
Braun might seriously become the front runner soon

Braun concerns me much more than the Congressmen clowns.

Same. Everyone has 3 months left to get him out of the race.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on February 02, 2018, 10:07:00 AM
I am concerned by Donnelly's small haul.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on February 09, 2018, 02:38:10 PM
For all the talk, Donnelly passes the filling day without a primary challenge. Will be Donnelly, Braun, Messer and Rokita on the May 8th primary ballots.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Former Kentuckian on February 09, 2018, 11:57:41 PM
Q4 numbers:

Braun: 2 million (!!!)
Donnelly: 1.2 million
Messer: 430 thousand (!!!)
Rokita: hasn't posted his numbers yet...?

(source) https://howeypolitics.com/

Okay, I'm not sure how Rokita hasn't posted his numbers yet since we're past the filling deadline, but whatever. I know Braun is independently wealthy, but wow. 2 million? And Messer could only muster up 430 thousand? This is a three-way horserace. Definitely one to watch.

Braun is self-financing. 90% of his funds are from himself, and he says he has more on the way. Donnelly and the other Republicans have been relying on traditional fundraising.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on February 12, 2018, 09:59:21 AM
Q4 numbers:

Braun: 2 million (!!!)
Donnelly: 1.2 million
Messer: 430 thousand (!!!)
Rokita: hasn't posted his numbers yet...?

(source) https://howeypolitics.com/

Okay, I'm not sure how Rokita hasn't posted his numbers yet since we're past the filling deadline, but whatever. I know Braun is independently wealthy, but wow. 2 million? And Messer could only muster up 430 thousand? This is a three-way horserace. Definitely one to watch.

Braun is self-financing. 90% of his funds are from himself, and he says he has more on the way. Donnelly and the other Republicans have been relying on traditional fundraising.

Still, that’s unideal. Maybe Donnelly is in more trouble than McCaskill.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Blair on February 12, 2018, 10:07:08 AM
This is just a guess, but I assume Donnelly lacks the fundraising base that McCaskill has? He's never been a very high figure in the party, seems to keep to himself etc


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Former Kentuckian on February 12, 2018, 10:32:32 AM
If 90% of Braun's funds are self-financed as Cal said, then that would put his traditional fundraising figures at ~200k.  Which would still mean Donnelly is outraising the Republican field through traditional fundraising.  A bit over ~1mil for the Republican field and ~1.2mil for Donnelly is encouraging numbers.

I'm not saying that Braun's self-fundraising should be ignored, it's very clearly a threat.  But I don't think we should act like Donnelly's fundraising is suddenly awful because Braun has more personal wealth to juke up his own numbers.

Here's percentages breaking down donations and self-financing: https://www.opensecrets.org/races/candidates?cycle=2018&id=INS1&spec=N (https://www.opensecrets.org/races/candidates?cycle=2018&id=INS1&spec=N)

Braun has raised less than $400,000 from donors and has loaned his campaign over $3 million since announcing. Donnelly still has over twice on-hand what Braun does, though.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Mycool on February 12, 2018, 11:46:23 AM
Q4 numbers:

Braun: 2 million (!!!)
Donnelly: 1.2 million
Messer: 430 thousand (!!!)
Rokita: hasn't posted his numbers yet...?

(source) https://howeypolitics.com/

Okay, I'm not sure how Rokita hasn't posted his numbers yet since we're past the filling deadline, but whatever. I know Braun is independently wealthy, but wow. 2 million? And Messer could only muster up 430 thousand? This is a three-way horserace. Definitely one to watch.

Braun is self-financing. 90% of his funds are from himself, and he says he has more on the way. Donnelly and the other Republicans have been relying on traditional fundraising.

Still, that’s unideal. Maybe Donnelly is in more trouble than McCaskill.

I so agree. I think McCaskill is often underrated as a campaigner and fundraiser. Her win in 2012 was not accidental, whereas Donnelly’s was much less intentional.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on February 12, 2018, 05:32:25 PM
Q4 numbers:

Braun: 2 million (!!!)
Donnelly: 1.2 million
Messer: 430 thousand (!!!)
Rokita: hasn't posted his numbers yet...?

(source) https://howeypolitics.com/

Okay, I'm not sure how Rokita hasn't posted his numbers yet since we're past the filling deadline, but whatever. I know Braun is independently wealthy, but wow. 2 million? And Messer could only muster up 430 thousand? This is a three-way horserace. Definitely one to watch.

Braun is self-financing. 90% of his funds are from himself, and he says he has more on the way. Donnelly and the other Republicans have been relying on traditional fundraising.

Still, that’s unideal. Maybe Donnelly is in more trouble than McCaskill.

I so agree. I think McCaskill is often underrated as a campaigner and fundraiser. Her win in 2012 was not accidental, whereas Donnelly’s was much less intentional.

I think  McCaskill is an exceptionally talented politician, but have thought she’s the weakest Democrat up this cycle, with Donnelly a close second. That might not quite be the case anymore, but we’ll see. It’s good to know Donnelly still has much more on hand than Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Cactus Jack on February 12, 2018, 05:44:31 PM
I really wish I had been wrong about Braun being the strongest candidate in the primary. Couple his self-funding with his being easily the most Indiana-friendly candidate of the three Republicans and I really don't like the idea of facing him.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: TheRocketRaccoon on February 28, 2018, 09:29:36 AM
Rokita has his 1st TV slot up.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4r5QXctM4L8


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Canis on February 28, 2018, 09:48:20 AM
Isn't trump below water in Indiana? running as Pro-trump might hurt him more than its going to help him


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on February 28, 2018, 01:57:36 PM
Here are two of Braun’s. The immigration one is on tv now. I’m not sure if messer has a spot up yet or not. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OKCbQ5UFgbY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OKCbQ5UFgbY)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VXuwIZEVmFM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VXuwIZEVmFM)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on February 28, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Here is the first debate if anyone’s interested. Messer is the sensible one but is afraid to say that so he tries to justify his less extremist positions like voting to not shutdown the government as what Trump wanted. Rokita might be the strongest debator but he was full of attack’s and in general is not a very nice guy. Braun was pretty rambly, and avoided taking clear positions.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rXcrhC1r8UY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rXcrhC1r8UY)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Bismarck on February 28, 2018, 02:10:21 PM
Isn't trump below water in Indiana? running as Pro-trump might hurt him more than its going to help him

Trump is barely underwater but certainly is not among GOP primary voters.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on March 02, 2018, 09:32:27 AM
Isn't trump below water in Indiana? running as Pro-trump might hurt him more than its going to help him

Not in the primaries


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on March 15, 2018, 10:06:47 AM
A little old news here, but Rokita is skipping the final debate (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/03/09/rokita-wont-debate-gop-primary-opponents-event-held-independent-commission/411694002/). I still firmly believe that Todd is the weakest potential opponent to Donnelly and this stunt only confirms it


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on March 15, 2018, 11:20:29 AM
A little old news here, but Rokita is skipping the final debate (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/03/09/rokita-wont-debate-gop-primary-opponents-event-held-independent-commission/411694002/). I still firmly believe that Todd is the weakest potential opponent to Donnelly and this stunt only confirms it

I think Messer is without question

They're both worse than Braun at the moment, but I tend to view Rokita as more likely to underperform in Indianapolis and Fort Wayne and their suburbs.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on March 15, 2018, 11:30:24 AM
A little old news here, but Rokita is skipping the final debate (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/03/09/rokita-wont-debate-gop-primary-opponents-event-held-independent-commission/411694002/). I still firmly believe that Todd is the weakest potential opponent to Donnelly and this stunt only confirms it

I think Messer is without question

They're both worse than Braun at the moment, but I tend to view Rokita as more likely to underperform in Indianapolis and Fort Wayne and their suburbs.

After seeing Saccone and Gillespie go down in flames in the burbs, I’m not sure it matters who Republicans run. Their perceived difference in appeal in the suburbs will be negligible. Messe rwould be a much easier opponent to paint as an out of touch asshole DC elite in the rural areas.

Ya know what, that's plausible. Donnelly has decent rural / working class credibility and LM's weaknesses there could have an impact. That said, it'd probably wash with TR's weaknesses with the Mitch Danielses / suburbia republicans of the IN GOP.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on March 15, 2018, 11:34:51 AM
A little old news here, but Rokita is skipping the final debate (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/03/09/rokita-wont-debate-gop-primary-opponents-event-held-independent-commission/411694002/). I still firmly believe that Todd is the weakest potential opponent to Donnelly and this stunt only confirms it

I think Messer is without question

They're both worse than Braun at the moment, but I tend to view Rokita as more likely to underperform in Indianapolis and Fort Wayne and their suburbs.

After seeing Saccone and Gillespie go down in flames in the burbs, I’m not sure it matters who Republicans run. Their perceived difference in appeal in the suburbs will be negligible. Messe rwould be a much easier opponent to paint as an out of touch asshole DC elite in the rural areas.

I think people aren't realizing that most Trump approvers are voting for republicans and most Trump disapprovers are voting democrat. Doubly so in federal races.

Conor Lamb got 5% of Trump approvers and Rick Saccone got 3% of Trump disapprovers. Very little crossover. And Lamb did a ton to distance himself from the national dem party.

The good news for these democrats in heavy Trump states is that Trump's approval has plummeted in a lot of them.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on March 15, 2018, 12:18:21 PM
I wonder how Hamilton County will behave this cycle. Obama got 38.5% in Hamilton County in 2008, and Donnelly got at least 40% in '12, +8% more than Obama who only 32%.

It's also worth noting that Donnelly was always competitive against Mourdock, even before the rape comments, which were made in October. Polling showed Donnelly and Mourdock tied in March and then again in May. Mourdock then held a 2% lead over Donnelly in July and August, Donnelly took a 2% lead in September -- before the rape comments -- and then was tied or at least 3% ahead from post-Mourdock's incredible blunder. One poll even showed him 11% ahead in October.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Sestak on March 15, 2018, 12:22:59 PM
Why is the title of this board still "Messer deciding by May"?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on March 15, 2018, 12:26:35 PM
I wonder how Hamilton County will behave this cycle. Obama got 38.5% in Hamilton County in 2008, and Donnelly got at least 40% in '12, +8% more than Obama who only 32%.


Wouldn't surprise me if Donnelly exceeded his '12 performance in the county.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on March 20, 2018, 08:47:04 AM
I wonder how Hamilton County will behave this cycle. Obama got 38.5% in Hamilton County in 2008, and Donnelly got at least 40% in '12, +8% more than Obama who only 32%.


Wouldn't surprise me if Donnelly exceeded his '12 performance in the county.

I don't think Donnelly can win Hamilton, but it wouldn't surprise me if the county was within 10 points. It is diversifying, has very high education rates and is becoming more young, three great trends for Democrats. I've done some canvassing there and there are a *lot* of former Republicans willing to vote for Donnelly or another Democrat. Again, I know it's anecdotal, but I genuinely think that Donnelly could be competitive there.

And I'm very undecided on who would be the strongest candidate. If I had to say, I'd probably go with Braun>Messer>Rokita, though marginally. Although Braun has the residency issues and won't be as good of a fundraiser, he doesn't have the massive residency issue of Messer and isn't ridiculously gaffe-prone like Rokita. And as previously noted, Rokita would be a really weak candidate in areas like Hamilton County.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on March 20, 2018, 02:22:03 PM
I wonder how Hamilton County will behave this cycle. Obama got 38.5% in Hamilton County in 2008, and Donnelly got at least 40% in '12, +8% more than Obama who only 32%.


Wouldn't surprise me if Donnelly exceeded his '12 performance in the county.

I don't think Donnelly can win Hamilton, but it wouldn't surprise me if the county was within 10 points. It is diversifying, has very high education rates and is becoming more young, three great trends for Democrats. I've done some canvassing there and there are a *lot* of former Republicans willing to vote for Donnelly or another Democrat. Again, I know it's anecdotal, but I genuinely think that Donnelly could be competitive there.

And I'm very undecided on who would be the strongest candidate. If I had to say, I'd probably go with Braun>Messer>Rokita, though marginally. Although Braun has the residency issues and won't be as good of a fundraiser, he doesn't have the massive residency issue of Messer and isn't ridiculously gaffe-prone like Rokita. And as previously noted, Rokita would be a really weak candidate in areas like Hamilton County.

Depending on the nominee (*cough* Rokita *cough*), Hamilton could also see a disproportionately high share of third-party votes, as it did in '16-PRES. Something like 7-7.5% of voters there voted third party in the presidential election, which is just about double the share of voters who voted third party in the gubernatorial race. Roughly 4.4% voted third party in the Senate race. Braun and Messer would probably bring home those conservative third party protest voters moreso than Rokita in Hamilton County and wouldn't shed as many to Donnelly.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on March 20, 2018, 03:46:36 PM
If Hamilton is within 10 points, would that be a result of a very tight election, or potential third-party split? If it’s the former, and Republicans put up Rosita, it seems like Donnelly could maybe when I plurality in the county.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on March 20, 2018, 04:06:09 PM
If Hamilton is within 10 points, would that be a result of a very tight election, or potential third-party split? If it’s the former, and Republicans put up Rosita, it seems like Donnelly could maybe when I plurality in the county.

I lived in Hamilton for 15 years. It's not going for Donnelly this year, even with high third party turnout. Honestly, Donnelly's best realistic case is something like 42 Donnelly / 52 Rokita / 6% Libertarian. Maaaaaybe 45/49/6 in a blue tsunami and with low R turnout and high third party. And that's taking into consideration suburbs swings in PA-18, Virginia, GA-06,15 etc.

 As Nick mentioned above, there are demographic changes - it's getting younger and it's very well educated. But it's been a republican stronghold for decades and it's my personal opinion that there's a lot of inertia there for the older voters in the county.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: StateBoiler on March 30, 2018, 10:28:07 AM
Braun internal polling released, per Howey Politics' weekly newsletter:

Braun 30%, Rokita 21%, Messer 16%, Undecided 33%

https://howeypolitics.com/Files/HPI180329-4b1dfd469e4c45af977734e4ba515529.pdf

Interview of race's history, per Braun:

Quote
HPI: You’ve got some new internal polling. What does it tell you?

 Braun: Early on … back in July it was rumored that I might run and Curtis Hill, and there was a poll that showed me at 1 to 2%, Curtis at 2 to 3%. All the polls showed Todd Rokita, due to being secretary of state, at about 27%, and Luke Messer at 20 to 21%. It was mostly name recognition. After I declared in early August, we did our first baseline poll in September. All that had changed had been the acrimony that was out there. That had started to gin up. It was mostly about Todd Rokita talking about Luke Messer not having a home in the state and his wife’s being on the payroll in Fishers. We found out because of that we had risen into the high single digits and they had basically stayed the same. We didn’t do anything else until early February. The biggest decision I’ve had to make in the whole campaign was with resources always being the driver.

 HPI: And what Rokita and Messer’s resources were.

 Braun: They were each at $2.5 million from their declared congressional accounts. That is an intimidating amount of money. In early February, we had been on the air in November, December and January and I had done well in fundraising early. I put some of my own skin in the game. In early February, we were at 24%, Todd Rokita was at 20% and Luke Messer at 14%. Obviously, Todd’s negative work against Luke had taken a toll. Our rising from 7% to 24% was taken out of each of their pots, and the undecideds started to commit. There were 42% undecided. The most recent poll taken, about a week ago, had me rising to 30%, Todd Rokita was at 21% and Luke Messer at 16%. And they both had been on the air a little bit, and his PAC was kicking in, but it showed unbelievable movement in my direction. It was better than what we thought we’d be. Our message is resonating. That early acrimony between the two of them set the stage for people not certain how to take it, disappointed it wasn’t more about what you’re going to do, what are your accomplishments, what are your ideas and that has kind of set the early dynamic. We came in, got the message out early, basically had the airspace to ourselves for four months.

HPI: I am shocked they let you fill that vacuum. How many gross rating points did you have?
 
Joshua Kelley (Braun campaign aide): About 3,000, depending when exactly they got up. We were on our fourth flight statewide by the time they went up.

 HPI: They let you in the game.

 Braun: You know why I think they did? Because their fourth quarter fundraising numbers were so
weak, about 40% off. I think they each ended up with about $450,000 and were hoping to be $700,000 or $750,000. That was a bad omen for the rest of the campaign. Because here’s what happened: It was known I was going to make a serious effort. It wasn’t going to be a whim. I was going to back it up with points where you can see this was going forward. Their contributions, even though they weren’t coming my way, weren’t coming their way.

My personal take is Rokita has really bombed things skipping out on the Indianapolis April 30th debate. Not so much the debate itself, but the impression it's given that he runs away from being challenged. Braun has gotten a lot of name recognition for a state representative vs. the 2 federal Congressmen from running ads a long time unchallenged by the other two.

I'll be attending the April 23rd debate. Don't know who I'll vote for yet but it definitely won't be Rokita (so Braun or Messer). Rokita winning the primary would be the best news for Donnelly's reelection campaign in my opinion.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on March 30, 2018, 10:56:48 AM
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/02/senate-slugfest-9-fights-so-far-indianas-bare-knuckle-us-senate-race/525108001/

Good article from the Star

Yes, good article.

The story of Rokita and Messer attacking each other, even though they're not the only candidates running for the GOP nomination, reminds me of how Russ Feingold came from way behind to win the Democratic nomination for the Senate in 1992. It's a story I've always thought was fascinating, amusing, and insightful. If Poli Sci departments have not been teaching students about that story for the last 25 years, they ought to start teaching it.
Early in 1992, Russ Feingold was a little-know state senator in Wisconsin, who, according to the polling, was in a distant third place behind two major, wealthy candidates: Rep. Jim Moody and businessman Joe Checota. Throughout the primary season, Moody and Checota each assumed that the other was their main opponent in the primary, and they attacked each other viciously, repeatedly, in their TV ads. Feingold ran a positive campaign, emphasizing his good qualities, and the only negative thing he ever said about Moody and Checota was to point out how they were slinging so much mud at each other. Feingold's strategy worked like a charm, while Moody and Checota succeeded only at making each other look terrible. Feingold ended up with a huge 70% win, and Checota and Moody were virtually tied for a distant second place at about 14% each.

Likewise, for Rokita and Messer to attack each other as often as they appear to be willing to do, is a strategy that can backfire, and it could easily lead to a win by someone like Mike Braun.

Major props, Mark.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: KingSweden on March 30, 2018, 12:00:17 PM
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/02/senate-slugfest-9-fights-so-far-indianas-bare-knuckle-us-senate-race/525108001/

Good article from the Star

Yes, good article.

The story of Rokita and Messer attacking each other, even though they're not the only candidates running for the GOP nomination, reminds me of how Russ Feingold came from way behind to win the Democratic nomination for the Senate in 1992. It's a story I've always thought was fascinating, amusing, and insightful. If Poli Sci departments have not been teaching students about that story for the last 25 years, they ought to start teaching it.
Early in 1992, Russ Feingold was a little-know state senator in Wisconsin, who, according to the polling, was in a distant third place behind two major, wealthy candidates: Rep. Jim Moody and businessman Joe Checota. Throughout the primary season, Moody and Checota each assumed that the other was their main opponent in the primary, and they attacked each other viciously, repeatedly, in their TV ads. Feingold ran a positive campaign, emphasizing his good qualities, and the only negative thing he ever said about Moody and Checota was to point out how they were slinging so much mud at each other. Feingold's strategy worked like a charm, while Moody and Checota succeeded only at making each other look terrible. Feingold ended up with a huge 70% win, and Checota and Moody were virtually tied for a distant second place at about 14% each.

Likewise, for Rokita and Messer to attack each other as often as they appear to be willing to do, is a strategy that can backfire, and it could easily lead to a win by someone like Mike Braun.

Major props, Mark.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on April 04, 2018, 08:17:43 AM
Heard it down the grapevine from an Indiana Republican officiant that they don't want Braun to be the nominee. Which doesn't make sense to me, but Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: KingSweden on April 04, 2018, 10:30:36 AM
Heard it down the grapevine from an Indiana Republican officiant that they don't want Braun to be the nominee. Which doesn't make sense to me, but Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

Lolwut why on earth? He’s easily the strongest nominee. I’d set this race to Tilt R if he wins the primary


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
Heard it down the grapevine from an Indiana Republican officiant that they don't want Braun to be the nominee. Which doesn't make sense to me, but Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

Lolwut why on earth? He’s easily the strongest nominee. I’d set this race to Tilt R if he wins the primary

I really don't know. My guess is they feel Braun won't fire up the base enough? Donnelly will definitely benefit from a trade war, since tariffs on pork are riling up farmers, and if a soy tariff follows? Boy howdy.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on April 04, 2018, 11:57:06 AM
Heard it down the grapevine from an Indiana Republican officiant that they don't want Braun to be the nominee. Which doesn't make sense to me, but Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

Lolwut why on earth? He’s easily the strongest nominee. I’d set this race to Tilt R if he wins the primary

I really don't know. My guess is they feel Braun won't fire up the base enough? Donnelly will definitely benefit from a trade war, since tariffs on pork are riling up farmers, and if a soy tariff follows? Boy howdy.

Yeah, I think on paper, Braun's the strongest candidate. Maybe they're concerned with his demeanor (I haven't seen the debate(s) admittedly, so i don't have a handle on his speaking style) but it's honestly pretty hard to imagine either of the two Reps being any more energizing for both of the two disparate Republican wings in Indiana.

My sneaking suspicion is one of two things: 1) as a quote-unquote proud outsider, Republicans may believe Braun could be a headache for McConnell; or 2) they've got damaging oppo on Braun that the Reps haven't yet found or they hear that Donnelly has but is saving for the general if Braun scores the nom.

Like I said, on paper and based on what we know now, Braun is a really good candidate. The only way that changes is if there's something that isn't captured in public information, which I would guess is damaging oppo.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: StateBoiler on April 05, 2018, 09:11:10 AM
Braun riled things up when it became clear he was going to enter. Everyone expected a straight up Rokita vs. Messer fight more or less.

I think Braun's presence in the race hurts Messer more than Rokita.

I'm not privy to the thoughts of "Indiana Republican officiants", but the other two rail on Washington insiders, and Braun points out "you guys have been in government for years". His cardboard cutout ad on the two of them is a stroke of genius if you haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUIqBhU-WU

Quote
My sneaking suspicion is one of two things: 1) as a quote-unquote proud outsider, Republicans may believe Braun could be a headache for McConnell; or 2) they've got damaging oppo on Braun that the Reps haven't yet found or they hear that Donnelly has but is saving for the general if Braun scores the nom.

1. Rokita is running as if he'd be more a headache for McConnell.

2. It's out in the open and has been since late last year I think, but Braun voted in Democratic primaries until 2012 I think the year was. Braun has said "where I'm from, the Democrats always won; to have real influence as a voter I had to vote as a Democrat".


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: StateBoiler on April 05, 2018, 09:30:30 AM
Heard it down the grapevine from an Indiana Republican officiant that they don't want Braun to be the nominee. Which doesn't make sense to me, but Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

Lolwut why on earth? He’s easily the strongest nominee. I’d set this race to Tilt R if he wins the primary

I really don't know. My guess is they feel Braun won't fire up the base enough? Donnelly will definitely benefit from a trade war, since tariffs on pork are riling up farmers, and if a soy tariff follows? Boy howdy.

Ironically, Pete Visclosky, Democrat representative in Congress from Lake County, is full on board with the tariffs. Jackie Walorski, Republican representative in Congress from next door in northern Indiana (where a lot of RV manufacturing is done, in addition to farming), is against it.

I do wonder how many voters though are actually impacted by tariffs on farming. There's been a lot of consolidation of the small family farms. There's still family farmers, but they're larger operations now acreage-wise, which means there's less of them as a percentage of overall voters.

That said, I don't expect Lake County Democrats to vote for the Republican, or a lot of Walorski's constituents to vote for Donnelly. Tariffs would hurt Braun's business, so not sure he'd be for it. Watched the economic debate a week or so ago, and I think he was against it. This hand grenade the president threw doesn't really fit on left-vs-right lines. Union voters for example are probably a majority for them. Due to my line of work, I'm not pro-tariff. I am more pro-stopping countries from intentionally undervaluing their currency than anything (which the entire tariff conversation is a reaction to, of course the media and no one else are near smart enough on the issue to talk about that). This is more just an example of how Bretton Woods II is failing and we need a Bretton Woods III.

WIBC recap of the 1st debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpOsDErRx_s


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: PragmaticPopulist on April 05, 2018, 01:43:17 PM
https://apnews.com/amp/aaeb92bec9c2430ea6b23c85fab84948

Rokita used to be a Never-Trumper. Messer isn't gonna let him off the hook for it.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 05, 2018, 01:47:06 PM
https://apnews.com/amp/aaeb92bec9c2430ea6b23c85fab84948

Rokita used to be a Never-Trumper. Messer isn't gonna let him off the hook for it.

This primary is such a sh!tshow.

I think Braun will win because of the ad he did comparing the two. Rotika and Messer are just flinging poop at each other. This primary could look like Russ Feingold's primary win.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: StateBoiler on April 05, 2018, 04:18:20 PM
https://apnews.com/amp/aaeb92bec9c2430ea6b23c85fab84948

Rokita used to be a Never-Trumper. Messer isn't gonna let him off the hook for it.

This primary is such a sh!tshow.

Eh, not really, that's just politics. The first debate between the 3 was very civil.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: KingSweden on April 05, 2018, 04:34:02 PM
https://apnews.com/amp/aaeb92bec9c2430ea6b23c85fab84948

Rokita used to be a Never-Trumper. Messer isn't gonna let him off the hook for it.

This primary is such a sh!tshow.

Eh, not really, that's just politics. The first debate between the 3 was very civil.

Who do you prefer, out of curiosity?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 05, 2018, 04:39:56 PM
https://apnews.com/amp/aaeb92bec9c2430ea6b23c85fab84948

Rokita used to be a Never-Trumper. Messer isn't gonna let him off the hook for it.

This primary is such a sh!tshow.

Eh, not really, that's just politics. The first debate between the 3 was very civil.

Rotika's 30 second dogwhistle primary ad is one of the worst ads I've ever seen.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: StateBoiler on April 05, 2018, 10:07:16 PM
https://apnews.com/amp/aaeb92bec9c2430ea6b23c85fab84948

Rokita used to be a Never-Trumper. Messer isn't gonna let him off the hook for it.

This primary is such a sh!tshow.

Eh, not really, that's just politics. The first debate between the 3 was very civil.

Who do you prefer, out of curiosity?

Not decided yet. I know it's not Rokita, so I'll vote for either Braun or Messer. Right now I'm leaning Braun.

I'll be attending the April 23rd debate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: BuckeyeNut on April 05, 2018, 11:34:58 PM
Heard it down the grapevine from an Indiana Republican officiant that they don't want Braun to be the nominee. Which doesn't make sense to me, but Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

Lolwut why on earth? He’s easily the strongest nominee. I’d set this race to Tilt R if he wins the primary

I really don't know. My guess is they feel Braun won't fire up the base enough? Donnelly will definitely benefit from a trade war, since tariffs on pork are riling up farmers, and if a soy tariff follows? Boy howdy.

Ironically, Pete Visclosky, Democrat representative in Congress from Lake County, is full on board with the tariffs. Jackie Walorski, Republican representative in Congress from next door in northern Indiana (where a lot of RV manufacturing is done, in addition to farming), is against it.

I do wonder how many voters though are actually impacted by tariffs on farming. There's been a lot of consolidation of the small family farms. There's still family farmers, but they're larger operations now acreage-wise, which means there's less of them as a percentage of overall voters.

That said, I don't expect Lake County Democrats to vote for the Republican, or a lot of Walorski's constituents to vote for Donnelly. Tariffs would hurt Braun's business, so not sure he'd be for it. Watched the economic debate a week or so ago, and I think he was against it. This hand grenade the president threw doesn't really fit on left-vs-right lines. Union voters for example are probably a majority for them. Due to my line of work, I'm not pro-tariff. I am more pro-stopping countries from intentionally undervaluing their currency than anything (which the entire tariff conversation is a reaction to, of course the media and no one else are near smart enough on the issue to talk about that). This is more just an example of how Bretton Woods II is failing and we need a Bretton Woods III.

WIBC recap of the 1st debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpOsDErRx_s

Eh, I wouldn't be so sure. Donnelly was their Congressman for a couple of terms, and he fended off Walorski in '10, and she then went on to narrowly win in '12.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Free Bird on April 06, 2018, 12:19:04 AM
We really should change the thread title lol


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: KingSweden on April 06, 2018, 08:47:26 AM
https://apnews.com/amp/aaeb92bec9c2430ea6b23c85fab84948

Rokita used to be a Never-Trumper. Messer isn't gonna let him off the hook for it.

This primary is such a sh!tshow.

Eh, not really, that's just politics. The first debate between the 3 was very civil.

Who do you prefer, out of curiosity?

Not decided yet. I know it's not Rokita, so I'll vote for either Braun or Messer. Right now I'm leaning Braun.

I'll be attending the April 23rd debate.

Fair enough. You didn’t strike me as a Rokita guy, so that makes sense.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Pandaguineapig on April 06, 2018, 08:53:44 AM
As a current Indiana resident I'm currently torn between Braun and Messer though I think Braun has a better shot in the General


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: _ on April 11, 2018, 12:50:24 PM
Another ad out by Braun, looks as good as the cutout ad of Messer and Rokita imo. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlA0x4zxYjs)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on April 11, 2018, 01:06:42 PM
Another ad out by Braun, looks as good as the cutout ad of Messer and Rokita imo. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlA0x4zxYjs)

Braun has a really good ad agency. This ad is really clever and stands out against the typical political ads. It's a little cheesy, but tbh a little cheesy plays well in Indiana.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on April 13, 2018, 03:48:32 PM
Rokita accessed Republican Party records on his government computer while serving as IN Secretary of State (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/indianas-gop-senate-candidate-accessed-donor-database-from-government-office-report/).

The literal definition of a nothingburger.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: UWS on April 13, 2018, 03:54:29 PM
Rokita accessed Republican Party records on his government computer while serving as IN Secretary of State (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/indianas-gop-senate-candidate-accessed-donor-database-from-government-office-report/).

The literal definition of a nothingburger.

I guess its a great opportunity for Messer to jump on it to attack Rokita as we are approaching the senate primary on May 8.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Ye We Can on April 13, 2018, 10:05:10 PM
I currently think that the Republicans will beat one of the Trump state incumbents, and I could see Braun being the only R gain.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 13, 2018, 10:06:16 PM
I currently think that the Republicans will beat one of the Trump state incumbents, and I could see Braun being the only R gain.

I'd give it to Jenkins before Braun, but if Morrissey or god forbid Blankensh!t wins, then Braun is the most likely.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 19, 2018, 06:27:54 AM
The Trump reelection campaign has demanded the Rokita campaign remove these road signs.

()

http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/indiana/20180419/trump-team-rokita-must-remove-signs

Rokita has agreed to participate in the Indiana Debate Commission's April 30th debate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on April 19, 2018, 08:07:41 AM
Good lord, Rokita is a cluster of a bad campaign. How can someone who's been in Indiana politics for going on 15 years be so bad at it?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: TheRocketRaccoon on April 19, 2018, 10:03:17 AM
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/19/luke-messer-indiana-primary-2018-senate-race-didnt-disclose-duis-when-lawmaker-drunk-driving/511788002/

Y I K E S


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Hindsight was 2020 on April 19, 2018, 10:04:31 AM
This primary is a car wreck


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on April 19, 2018, 10:12:56 AM
Mike Braun's got this. I'm almost at the point where I'd give him like a 75% chance of winning, even though that's the outcome I want least (the other two would be much, much easier to beat.)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 19, 2018, 02:17:13 PM
Brian Howey:

https://howeypolitics.com/Content/Default/Lead-Story/Article/Horse-Race-Rokita-teeters-as-Messer-makes-Indy-TV-push/-3/346/17387

Quote
And in the first independent polling in this race, Gravis Marketing (using what it described as an “online panel”) finds Mike Braun is leading with 26%, followed by Rokita at 16%, and Luke Messer at 13%. The likely voter sample for the Republican primary was conducted April 6-11 and has a 5.9% margin of error. Gravis is credible enough that it is included the Real Clear Politics polling composites. In head to heads with Sen. Joe Donnelly, Messer trails 46-36% and Rokita 50-36%. There was no head to head with Braun.
    
The perception of the final three weeks is that this is a race to be had by those with big checkbooks or a competent ground game. All three campaigns insist they have ground game strategies. Both Messer and Rokita have long ties with the GOP, with Messer serving as executive director of the Indiana Republican Party and Rokita winning two terms as secretary of state, though he has alienated himself with much of the party establishment.
    
Braun had been seen as an emerging front runner, particularly with his big TV advertising lead ($3 million to $2 million for Rokita and Messer) we revealed last week. But his latest “Swamp Brothers” ad that accuses Rokita as a “fraud” and Messer as a “liberal” will strain his credibility and could be a classic overreach.
    
The latest competitive TV ad report shows Braun preparing modest buys in Evansville, $22,142 and $3,084 over the final two weeks; $76,535 and $10,934 in Indianapolis; $27,133 and $3,883 in South Bend/Elkhart; and $15,043 and $2,149 in Terre Haute. Braun is spending $15,073 and $2,153 in the Chicago cable market.
    
Messer is making a final big push, spending $151,520 and $155,005 in the Indianapolis broadcast market over the final two weeks; $36,220 in each of the final two weeks in Louisville broadcast; $26,045 and $39,725 in the Fort Wayne market; and $20,680 and $35,035 in South Bend/Elkhart. Curiously, Messer has not advertised in the Evansville market.
   
A group allied with Messer, Hoosiers for Conservative Values, is spending $306,000 on negative ads against Braun in Fort Wayne, South Bend, Evansville and Terre Haute. The ad calls Braun “Tax Hike Mike,” saying he raised taxes 45 times, voted for the “biggest tax hike in history” and voted Democratic 16 years.
    
Rokita is making a $14,036 buy next week in the Indianapolis broadcast market, and $5,943 in Fort Wayne. Clearly, Rokita is getting out-gunned in the air war.
   
“Rokita is running out of money (best illustrated by this week’s ads), so is holding it right now if he even has some declining cash,” said Mark Souder a former congressman and current HPI columnist. “Braun may think he has a lead, plus has to be exceeding is spending estimates, or the combination.  Messer was sitting on his cash – like he had it won and was waiting for the general.  He is spending too late, and with minimally effective ads. However, he has more big donors who suddenly could pump in some soft money. If Rokita can’t pump it up when there are 10 days left and compete, it could become a three-way race or a romp for Braun.”
   
“Messer seems to have his strategy anchored on the Indy market – once again, that is why the Delph poll is so interesting,” Souder added, making reference to a poll in State Sen. Mike Delph’s Senate district that showed Rokita with a lead. Souder added, “The intensity against Rokita is rather amazing. But that has been true ever since he got into politics. Rokita could be the last grassroots guy with a chance to win statewide.  
    
And at this writing, only Messer has released his FEC first quarter, reporting $389,000 with $1.86 million cash on hand. Some of that can’t be spent until the fall. The perception on that front is that Rokita and Messer continue to languish on the money front and Braun is simply awaiting their hauls in order to make a corresponding final media purchase.

Former Congressman Mark Souder's take on the race for the same publication. The Messer line is worth a laugh.

Quote
As we enter the last weeks of this campaign, here are the campaign strategies that have increasingly become apparent:

1.) Braun had a clear media strategy and he has implemented it almost flawlessly.  Outsider, businessman, cardboard cutout opponents who are non-practicing lawyers. He developed the foundation while the others were asleep, then attacked with humor. When they counterattacked, he responded with a nice family ad making them look negative (Braun is controlling the rhythm of this race). He ignored the facts that he was a long-time Democrat and officeholder. He has spent lots of money. Lots and lots of money.

2.) Rokita’s approach has been less disciplined (ironic for a long-time control freak), but the net result still is consistent. Be Trump Jr., appeal to conservatives, run around the state like there is a scorecard somewhere of hands shaken and counties covered. Take a weakness — established Republican leaders dislike him intensely — and turn it into a strength. Bait them, in fact. Raise enough money to be in the race, then punch and keep punching because some will land. It has worked well for both him and Trump in Indiana. Make America Great Again.

3.) Messer had a strategy most effective to become a state chairman, Republican conference chairman, maybe win a convention, and something that could, for example, get you picked as the Fishers city attorney while living in Washington. And be a good congressman, which tends to get lost in politics today. To be completely fair, he’s a responsible leader in a world that doesn’t value that much right now. In other words, he’s a weak third if there is much of a vote.



Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 19, 2018, 02:20:18 PM
How did Mike raise taxes?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 19, 2018, 02:26:56 PM

The supermajority Republican state legislature has most notably approved a decent-sized gas tax hike for the purpose of repairing the state's road infrastructure in the past couple years. Braun served in the state House until late last year.

Not sure how they get the 45 number, but that's the key one.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Lamda on April 19, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
Here is something that Joe Donnelly can use against Braun if he the Republican nominee.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/06/mike-braun-indiana-primary-2018-senate-race-ethics-concerns-timber-industry/490093002/



Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on April 19, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
The timber story won't do lasting damage. It'll hurt as much as Donnelly's (now former) ownership in his family business that's accused of outsourcing.

But I do maintain that while Braun might have a high ceiling as a candidate, he also has a lower floor than the Reps. Their negatives are fairly priced in and Braun hasn't been vetted much. He'll probably be the best candidate, but don't count out some pretty bad oppo.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on April 19, 2018, 04:00:51 PM
Here is something that Joe Donnelly can use against Braun if he the Republican nominee.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/06/mike-braun-indiana-primary-2018-senate-race-ethics-concerns-timber-industry/490093002/



Nobody will care. Almost all 2018 races are a referendum on Trump period


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Young Conservative on April 19, 2018, 05:21:20 PM
Here is something that Joe Donnelly can use against Braun if he the Republican nominee.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/06/mike-braun-indiana-primary-2018-senate-race-ethics-concerns-timber-industry/490093002/



Nobody will care. Almost all 2018 races are a referendum on Trump period
Nobody will care because the legislation benefited his entire industry, not just his business.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Bidenworth2020 on April 19, 2018, 09:34:53 PM
Here is something that Joe Donnelly can use against Braun if he the Republican nominee.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/06/mike-braun-indiana-primary-2018-senate-race-ethics-concerns-timber-industry/490093002/



Nobody will care. Almost all 2018 races are a referendum on Trump period
Nobody will care because the legislation benefited his entire industry, not just his business.
deregulating oil companies-

Nobody will care because the legislation benefited his entire industry, not just his business.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 20, 2018, 07:19:47 AM
Here is something that Joe Donnelly can use against Braun if he the Republican nominee.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/06/mike-braun-indiana-primary-2018-senate-race-ethics-concerns-timber-industry/490093002/



Nobody will care. Almost all 2018 races are a referendum on Trump period
Nobody will care because the legislation benefited his entire industry, not just his business.
deregulating oil companies-

Nobody will care because the legislation benefited his entire industry, not just his business.

Braun is not in the oil business. He owns an auto parts distributor business.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 23, 2018, 09:38:32 AM
morning update

https://howeypolitics.com/Content/Default/Lead-Story/Article/Atomic-Braun-loans-5M-Rokita-cash-tape-Pence-bankruptcies/-3/346/17427

Quote
Monday, April 23, 2018 10:01 AM
 
By BRIAN A. HOWEY, in Southport
 
1. Rokita, Braun poles apart on money
 
Here are your Monday power lunch talking points: With Todd Rokita posting an underwhelming $425,532 in the first quarter, and Mike Braun’s report showing $5.449 million in loans he made to his Republican U.S. Senate campaign, it’s clear what is driving the final TV in this race: Money and personal wealth. Luke Messer raised just $389,000 for the quarter and as they did on prior FEC reports, Messer and Rokita headed into the final five weeks with close to the same amount of cash, $1.865 million for Rokita and $1.86 million for Messer. GOP sources tell us that more than 10% of the Rokita and Messer cash won’t be available to the fall campaign, if they survive. Braun reported $2.42 million cash on hand, but he is part of the “green wave” of self-funders running in Indiana this cycle. We figured he was awaiting the Rokita and Messer hauls before upgrading modest TV buys in the final weeks. And there is still plenty of gross rating points to buy.
 
Howey Politics Indiana still has this race as a “Tossup” with, perhaps, a slight edge to Braun  because he has more resources, though his ground game is questionable. The Gravis Marketing Poll last week showed Braun leading with 26%, Rokita at 16% and Messer at 13%. That leaves a huge number of undecideds, some of whom will be watching the Allen County Republican Party debate at 7 tonight in Fort Wayne. It will be the first debate since Messer’s two DUIs  surfaced and Rokita was rebuked by President Trump’s reelection campaign for a perceived endorsement on yard signs. The two C-Men will try to paint Braun as “Mexico Mike” who votes Democratic and loves to raise taxes. This is a very, very fluid primary race.
 
2. Where you can watch the INSen debate
 
The Republican Senate debate will also be broadcast on a network of radio stations, with Fort Wayne’s WOWO as the originating station. WOWO’s Pat Miller will be the debate moderator. The broadcasters include TV stations WPTA in Fort Wayne, WNDU and WNIT in South Bend, WYIN in Merrillville, WLFY in Lafayette and WTHR in Indianapolis, and radio stations WOWO in Fort Wayne, WFBM in Muncie and WEOA in Evansville. The final debate will be at 7 p.m. April 30, with Todd Rokita changing his mind and joining his two rivals in the Indiana Debate Commission event.

Radio interview with Messer this morning: https://www.wowo.com/congressman-messer-speaks-ahead-of-tonights-senate-debate/


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on April 26, 2018, 04:40:15 PM
Rokita with his own youthful indiscretion.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/25/indiana-senate-race-2018-rokita-arrest-messer-dui/546480002/


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: ON Progressive on April 26, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Todd Rokita released a children's book attacking Messer.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/behind-closed-doors/2018/04/25/indiana-senate-race-2018-rokita-childrens-book-messer-braun/546499002/ (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/behind-closed-doors/2018/04/25/indiana-senate-race-2018-rokita-childrens-book-messer-braun/546499002/)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on April 26, 2018, 09:00:06 PM
Todd Rokita released a children's book attacking Messer.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/behind-closed-doors/2018/04/25/indiana-senate-race-2018-rokita-childrens-book-messer-braun/546499002/ (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/behind-closed-doors/2018/04/25/indiana-senate-race-2018-rokita-childrens-book-messer-braun/546499002/)

This is the pettiest, most immature primary race I’ve ever seen


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: henster on April 26, 2018, 09:08:35 PM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on April 26, 2018, 09:10:24 PM
Todd Rokita released a children's book attacking Messer.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/behind-closed-doors/2018/04/25/indiana-senate-race-2018-rokita-childrens-book-messer-braun/546499002/ (https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/behind-closed-doors/2018/04/25/indiana-senate-race-2018-rokita-childrens-book-messer-braun/546499002/)

This is the pettiest, most immature primary race I’ve ever seen

If only Mike Braun weren't running...


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: LimoLiberal on April 26, 2018, 09:53:19 PM
Why aren't they attacking Mike Braun? Isn't he leading? Is this just an excuse for Messer and Rokita to hash out their political vendettas against each other?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 26, 2018, 10:33:01 PM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Canis on April 26, 2018, 11:53:01 PM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle
Love the its always sunny music


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Maxwell on April 27, 2018, 12:00:26 AM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: henster on April 27, 2018, 12:08:29 AM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.

Yea Messer and Rokita both carry quite a bit of baggage with them while Braun is kind of a clean slate and basically as close as you can get to a Generic R.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Canis on April 27, 2018, 12:27:45 AM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.

Yea Messer and Rokita both carry quite a bit of baggage with them while Braun is kind of a clean slate and basically as close as you can get to a Generic R.
Yeah while Donnelly has the right set of beliefs Bruan is an exceptionally good candidate with no baggage Donelly can be attacked he is treading water but the IN GOP could rip him apart if the DNC doesn't take the threat seriously


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 27, 2018, 12:29:43 AM
Yeah I think Braun would beat Donnelly by around 2, whereas Donnelly beats Messer by 3 and Rotika by 6


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Heisenberg on April 27, 2018, 12:31:55 AM
Yeah I think Braun would beat Donnelly by around 2, whereas Donnelly beats Messer by 3 and Rotika by 6
This. Completely agree. Braun is by far the strongest candidate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 27, 2018, 08:44:28 AM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.

Yea Messer and Rokita both carry quite a bit of baggage with them while Braun is kind of a clean slate and basically as close as you can get to a Generic R.

I think Messer is more "generic R" than the other two. Rokita is clearly portraying himself as the spitting image of Trump, and Braun is "outsider businessman". Although there's very little policy differences between the 3 when it comes to the debates.

Local take:

https://howeypolitics.com/Content/Default/Lead-Story/Article/Horse-Race-An-utterly-fluid-Republican-U-S-Senate-finish/-3/346/17465

Quote
Horse Race: An utterly fluid Republican U.S. Senate finish

Thursday, April 26, 2018 11:39 AM
 
By BRIAN A. HOWEY
   
INDIANAPOLIS – The Republican U.S. Senate primary heads into its final fortnight as a “tossup,” mostly because the scant polling available signals a large pool, between 30 and 40%, of undecided voters.
   
Anecdotally, we see a light turnout, in part because of the lack of enthusiasm for President Trump while Luke Messer, Mike Braun and Todd Rokita continue to emphatically embrace him. This should be the homestretch of the campaign where they burnish key talking points, like Todd Young did in his race against Marlin Stutzman in 2016. Young repeatedly mentioned he was a Marine in his final debates to the point of some ridicule. But news coverage picked up this angle, achieving audience saturation of that portion of Young’s resume.
   
Of the current field, Braun appears to have a slight edge because his “outsider businessman” branding comes as close to Young’s consistent Marine Corps branding effort. In first quarter FEC filings, Braun has loaned his campaign an unprecedented (for Indiana) $5.5 million, has $2.42 million cash on hand, and has the ability to write more checks to protect his already seismic investment.
   
Rokita reported $425,532 during the first quarter and $1.865 million cash on hand, while Messer reported $389,000 with $1.86 million cash on hand. But the two congressmen can’t spend all of that, as some of it is general election money. Of the two, Rokita’s late media buys have been light, suggesting he faces a real cash crunch. Braun is likely to up his totals even further in the final week. The notion that he’s already invested $5.5 million means he’s likely to protect that investment with another $1 million or $2 million to achieve victory. Messer and Rokita simply don’t have the same deep pockets.
      
In the latest competitive TV ad buy data set, Messer has purchased 306 gross rating points in Fort Wayne broadcast ($26,045), 674 points in Indianapolis ($151,005), 302 points in Louisville ($36,220); and 276 in South Bend/Elkhart ($20,680) for the week of April 24-30. For the final week, Messer has 467 points in Fort Wayne ($39,725), 674 points in Indinapolis ($155,005), 302 points in Louisville ($36,220) and 467 in South Bend/Elkhart ($36,035.
   
Rokita has purchased 5,967 gross rating points in broadcast TV this week, including 919 points in Indianapolis ($117,754), 670 points in South Bend/Elkhart ($26,886), 1,275 in Fort Wayne ($47,574) and 730 in Terre Haute ($12,068). For the final week, Rokita’s buy dwindles to just 612 GRP, with 185 points in Fort Wayne ($6,939), 136 in Indianapolis ($17,286) and less than $10,000 in three other markets. Rokita has purchased no radio in the final two weeks. Clearly, Rokita’s campaign is running on fumes.
   
However, the Rokita campaign released a children’s book aimed at Messer on Wednesday.
   
Braun’s final week is far off from previous weeks. He has purchased just 786 points in seven markets, with the biggest $13,000 in Indianapolis broadcast and $5,000 in Fort Wayne.
   
Worth noting is that the campaigns may be buying by the day in the final weeks, keeping their cards close to the vest. The fact that Braun’s buy is currently light may be because he realizes people are deciding late, and could be poised to bury the C-Men with a late buy, perhaps day by day.
   
So why isn’t this “Leans Braun” in HPI Horse Race parlance? Because while Braun will be traveling with his Messer and Rokita cardboard cutouts across the state in the final days, building on the most successful TV ad of the 2018 cycle nationwide, he doesn’t appear to have a corresponding ground game. We believe that both Messer and Rokita have more ground resources.
   
Messer has gotten aggressive with his TV ads against Braun, trying to portray the Jasper businessman as a tax-hiker and career politician. While Braun may have far more financial resources, we’re not sure how durable his key attributes will be when they come under fire. The perceptions of him are likely soft and potentially could pop under a withering line of attack.
   
And what is Messer’s closing argument? During Monday night’s debate, the refrain that kept popping up was a mealy-mouthed “I am who I say I am.” That is not nearly as convincing an argument as Todd Young’s “Semper Fi” Marine persona.
   
The final weeks of the campaign have thrown curve balls at both the C-men. For Messer, it was the IndyStar’s reporting of his two DUIs coming before he replaced State Rep. Roland Stine, who was killed by a drunk driver. That’s a messy story line. Rokita attempted to make this an issue at the Fort Wayne debate, while Messer’s retort was, “So many attacks and so little time.”
   
Messer denied that he kept his DUI arrests quiet. “We’re going to continue to be clear about what occurred. Again, I’m very sorry about what occurred 23 and 28 years ago,” Messer told WIBC, saying that information of his arrests was made public in the Shelbyville News nearly a decade ago. “Other campaigns have tried to use this unsuccessfully in the past and I think this is going to be unsuccessful, too. Clearly, the folks I’m running against would rather talk about my past than talk about our state’s future.”
   
Having to go there is not a good way to enter the homestretch.
   
Rokita’s embarrassment was the rebuke from President Trump’s reelection campaign to cease and desist using yard signs proclaiming the endorsement of “Trump/Pence 2016 leadership team” (See related article on page 7).  Messer gigged Rokita on Monday night for that the controversy, saying, “Mr. Rokita runs around the state in a MAGA hat and the Trump campaign has asked him to take his yard signs down.” But a light TV audience watched that debate and it hardly resulted in headlines that can secure votes.
   
Rokita may have other troubles brewing. WIBC talk host Rob Kendall has been relentless of his criticism of Rokita after the congressman initially said he would duck two debates. Kendall, who appears on several WIBC shows, is suggesting that Rokita may have been using congressional office personnel on his campaign. Kendall tweeted, “Odd that Nathan Brand, the very terrible spokesperson for@ToddRokitaIN CAMPAIGN was on the GOVERNMENT payroll as of December 31. Interesting, considering I was getting CAMPAIGN emails with his name on them during this time.”
   
Kendall pointed out that Brand was receiving $2,666 in salary during the pay period of Dec. 11-31, 2017. Over the weekend, Kendall tweeted: “Will someone please tell this moron that actual ‘Hoosier Trumpers’ want nothing to do with @ToddRokitaIN because a.) he’s a disingenuous windbag and b.) we don’t want Trump having to work with @SenDonnelly for 6 more years! “
   
That’s the kind of coverage Rokita is getting on conservative talk radio down the homestretch.
   
The $5 million Braun has loaned his campaign along with his paid media advantage suggests he’s in the best position to pull this off. A highly informed and reliable 3rd CD source tells HPI that Braun had a lead in polling in State Sen. Travis Holdman’s SD19. The source added, “I’ve got to think that’s indicative of the 3rd District.”
   
The notion that Braun is running strong in Northeast Indiana corresponds with the 8,043 gross rating points he had in the Fort Wayne broadcast market as of last week, compared to 1,905 for Messer and 1,824 for Rokita. Braun has also spent $74,185 on Fort Wayne radio compared to $26,565 for Rokita and $4,375 for Messer.
   
When you add up the money advantage, the access to more resources that Messer and Rokita don’t have, a more consistent brand message, and his clear advantage in gross rating points, the tell tales suggest Braun is in the best position to win this primary.
   
However, his lack of a ground game, light early voting and the large pool of undecided voters suggest that Braun is still away off from locking this up. Republican Primary Horse Race Status: Tossup.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Alabama_Indy10 on April 27, 2018, 08:47:23 AM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.

Yea Messer and Rokita both carry quite a bit of baggage with them while Braun is kind of a clean slate and basically as close as you can get to a Generic R.

I think Messer is far more "generic R" than the other two. Rokita is clearly portraying himself as the spitting image of Trump, and Braun is "outsider businessman". Although there's very little policy differences between the 3 when it comes to the debates.

I agree with this.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 27, 2018, 08:57:52 AM
Not expecting much of anything to happen in the final April 30th debate based on the one I attended this past Monday. But my guess at this point is Braun wins this due to being considered the most electable. The reason Donnelly is in this seat to begin with is Republicans nominated someone that turned out to be unelectable. And since it's a competitive 3-way race, he only needs 40% to win most likely. The thing that gives Howey pause is there's hardly been any polling by independent orgs and it's believed there are a ton of undecideds.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 27, 2018, 09:01:11 AM
Yeah I think Braun would beat Donnelly by around 2, whereas Donnelly beats Messer by 3 and Rotika by 6

I think Braun is the strongest, but I don't think he's as strong as Atlas is hyping him up to be against Donnelly. I don't think he'd beat Donnelly at the moment.

Braun's strongest asset policy-wise in my opinion is how he describes how he handled healthcare and its costs for his company's employees negotiating with the insurers. It shows he gets how screwed up healthcare is and even if you're anti-Obamacare, you still know it needs to be fixed.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 27, 2018, 09:07:57 AM
Here's a more cynical take on the race from a Republican:

https://howeypolitics.com/Content/Columns/Columns/Article/Mark-Souder-A-choice-between-2-cardboard-cutouts-and-a-Democrat/10/20/17463

Quote
Mark Souder: A choice between 2 cardboard cutouts and a Democrat

   BY: MARK SOUDER

Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:44 AM

FORT WAYNE – The intense, bitter Indiana Republican primary for the United States Senate nomination has apparently come down to a choice between one of the cardboard cutouts or a Democrat.
   
Or perhaps one of the Swamp Brothers.
   
Given these choices, combined with Trump successfully dominating everyone’s daily lives and general lack of interest in any other politics, it is not surprising that in spite of being inundated with advertising of all types, an extraordinary number of likely voters remain undecided. Furthermore, I personally think the undecided vote is understated. There is a new type of undecided – the weekly switcher. From people I talk to, and as indicated by erratic polling, voters are still going back and forth among the options.
   
One reason is that voters believe that politicians won’t tell the truth about themselves and the media is so biased that it is untrustworthy. Only the negative ads tell the truth and thus everybody must be terrible.
   
First let’s discuss the cardboard cutouts. Unfortunately for them, the two congressmen are about the same age, look vaguely similar, went to Wabash College, have blonde wives and nice families, and nearly identical voting records. It is no shock that Braun’s cardboard cutouts ad worked as a concept.
   
The two congressmen have reinforced that image, not with their votes in Congress, but by the behavior of their campaigns. They made it personal, not policy-based. The leaks about Rokita possibly misusing the Republican database, presumably from Messer supporters, should have been resolved or dropped long before now. The charges perhaps give some insight into character the of both campaigns, as does the attempt to smear Rokita with a leaked memo about his tendency to control details.
   
Similarly, debating Luke Messer’s long ago DUIs, and his allegedly concealing one before a nominating caucus that put him in office for the first time, also potentially gives an insight into the character of both campaigns.  “These guys,” as Mike Braun personally calls them, are far too often acting like the cardboard cutouts or swamp creatures they are alleged to be.
   
Then there is the dust-up about Rokita’s Trump-Pence signs. They are designed to look like an endorsement by Trump-Pence though they correctly say the endorsement is by his Indiana campaign leaders, though in small print that you may or may not notice. Trump’s campaign, for a variety of reasons that certainly included some strong-arming from the other campaigns, said they should be removed. Rokita’s campaign responded with a television ad that attempted to clarify who actually made the endorsement. That ad has been reinforced by Messer’s highlighting it. The more they complain, to this point, the more it reminds voters that the Indiana Trump leaders back Rokita.
   
While it was not appropriate to mislead that deliberately, that tactic is being used by Messer as well. In the debate, for example, Messer slyly said that he coached his son’s basketball team like other Hoosier dads. Except he’s a Virginia dad coaching Virginia players, which is a deliberate attempt to mislead. And it is so much like Evan Bayh shooting hoops with his Virginia boys that it is an eerie Indiana reminder of a losing campaign. The point here is that Messer often does exactly the same things as Rokita, only in a more polished way. Rokita uses boxing gloves and “Make America Great Again” baseball caps when he does it.
   
Every sign indicates that Braun is taking away votes from both of them. The larger the turnout, the better for Braun.  Braun, in fact, has the best chance for a sizeable victory. But then there is the Democrat thing.
   
Braun has offered no compelling reason for his party switch. It wasn’t about Donald Trump because Braun switched parties to run for the state legislature. He won’t answer whether he voted for Obama or Hillary. He associated himself with the gun control, pro-abortion, big government party for his entire life before he ran for the General Assembly.  Thus, many Republicans decide to vote for Braun, then pause. When Braun says that Rokita and Messer vote the same way 95% of the time, as if that is bad, is he saying that his support of conservative Republican principles would be less than 95%?  Is he saying that he will break ranks in a potentially 50-50 split Senate more often? On what issues will he defy the president, who has been supported on almost every vote by Rokita and Messer?
   
Braun’s gimmick, equally as deceptive as anything Rokita or Messer has done or said, is to act like any one individual is going to change the fundamental votes. And picking a couple of issues such as fast track (which actually is what gives the president the authority to do what Braun says he wants to give the president, which apparently Braun doesn’t understand) or the budget (which Trump supported and then gave himself political cover by whining about it, something that apparently Braun doesn’t understand either) is not the point.
   
There are at least 300 votes per year. Will Braun support the president and the GOP 95% of the time and become, by his definition, a Swamp Brother or a cardboard twin, or not? If we want a bipartisan senator who votes with Democrats, we already have Joe Donnelly.
   
This dilemma – “I want change but not another Democrat who says he agrees with me but doesn’t” – is why this race is likely to remain fluid until the end.

Souder is a former Republican congressman from Indiana.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Oryxslayer on April 27, 2018, 09:10:53 AM
Not expecting much of anything to happen in the final April 30th debate based on the one I attended this past Monday. But my guess at this point is Braun wins this due to being considered the most electable. The reason Donnelly is in this seat to begin with is Republicans nominated someone that turned out to be unelectable. And since it's a competitive 3-way race, he only needs 40% to win most likely. The thing that gives Howey pause is there's hardly been any polling by independent orgs and it's believed there are a ton of undecideds.

Indiana doesn't make polling easy, so its hard to tell who will win. I will say that I'm pretty confident the primary electorate in Indiana is more right wing then we give it credit for. They still gave Cruz 36%, when it was obvious Trump was going to win. They also kicked out the incumbent, putting is in this position of 2018. This may be a challenge for Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on April 27, 2018, 09:24:18 AM
That Mark Souder can throw some serious shade

Also; StateBoiler, thank you for all your updates from the ground!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 27, 2018, 10:05:06 AM
That Mark Souder can throw some serious shade

Also; StateBoiler, thank you for all your updates from the ground!

Thanks.

Random guess:

Braun 38
Rokita 34
Messer 28

Kinda feel bad for Messer. If it was a 2-way between him and Rokita, I'd vote for him, but Braun or Rokita finishing 3rd I would find surprising, so that only leaves him to finish 3rd. It's not real numbers-based that analysis, just my gut.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 27, 2018, 10:05:59 AM
Lol that republican can't stand the thought of Braun being even remotely moderate (even though he has been campaigning as a conservative and has a voting record in Indiana).


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Doimper on April 27, 2018, 10:09:11 AM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.

I have faith in the Republican primary electorate's finely attuned ability to select the worst possible candidate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 27, 2018, 10:12:44 AM
Lol that republican can't stand the thought of Braun being even remotely moderate (even though he has been campaigning as a conservative and has a voting record in Indiana).

The only attack that's stuck somewhat on him is Braun voted in Democratic primaries until relatively recently because in his words the Democrats controlled his county's politics in spite of it being relatively conservative, and it was the only way for him to have local political influence was to pull a Democratic ballot. I read an editorial from a former county GOP chairman that pointed out "Rush Limbaugh was telling conservatives to do this exact thing 10 years ago".

I wish we had real party registration. It's stupid not too.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on April 27, 2018, 05:41:45 PM
Just another day over at the never ending clown circuis known as the GOP:

Rep. Luke Messer (R-Ind.) is pressing colleagues to support President Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.
 (http://thehill.com/homenews/house/385169-gop-lawmaker-planning-to-nominate-trump-for-nobel-peace-prize)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on April 27, 2018, 05:44:06 PM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle
Love the its always sunny music

It's very amusing. I know it's stock music but you can't use it anymore when it's the the opening credits song to one of the most cynical (and best) shows on television. That's all anyone will talk about.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: tmthforu94 on April 27, 2018, 05:50:06 PM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle
Love the its always sunny music

It's very amusing. I know it's stock music but you can't use it anymore when it's the the opening credits song to one of the most cynical (and best) shows on television. That's all anyone will talk about.
Uh, the video has been out for months and almost no one is talking about it. Did a quick google search and found 1 (!!!) article that references it:

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/26/mike-braun-casts-his-indiana-gop-senate-rivals-car/


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on April 27, 2018, 05:52:37 PM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle
Love the its always sunny music

It's very amusing. I know it's stock music but you can't use it anymore when it's the the opening credits song to one of the most cynical (and best) shows on television. That's all anyone will talk about.
Uh, the video has been out for months and almost no one is talking about it. Did a quick google search and found 1 (!!!) article that references it:

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/26/mike-braun-casts-his-indiana-gop-senate-rivals-car/

Hahaha. By anyone I pretty much meant just us to be honest. We're probably the only people who watch political ads from states we don't live in just for the hell of it.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on April 28, 2018, 01:48:43 AM
Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.

I have faith in the Republican primary electorate's finely attuned ability to select the worst possible candidate.

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=18&year=2016&f=0&off=3&elect=2


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Bismarck on April 28, 2018, 09:03:27 AM
I’m going to vote for Braun later today. I think he has broad appeal and despite the eye roll outsider schtick seems like a pretty decent guy. State Boiler do you know if the most recent debate can be accessed somewhere?
My prediction is Braun 40, Rokita 35, Messer 25.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Sherrod Brown Shill on April 28, 2018, 10:43:13 AM
I'm starting to think Donnelly is in more danger then McCaskill. Braun seems like a very strong candidate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 30, 2018, 07:33:53 AM
I’m going to vote for Braun later today. I think he has broad appeal and despite the eye roll outsider schtick seems like a pretty decent guy. State Boiler do you know if the most recent debate can be accessed somewhere?
My prediction is Braun 40, Rokita 35, Messer 25.

If you go to the Allen County GOP Facebook page, they live streamed it there.

The main broadcast partners were WPTA 21 of Fort Wayne and WOWO News Radio of Fort Wayne. You can maybe find it on one of their sites.

The Indiana Debate Commission debate tonight will be live streamed on Youtube.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 30, 2018, 10:08:33 AM
indypolitics.org:

Quote
With a little more than a week to go before the May primary, Indiana Secretary of State Connie Lawson says about 88,000 Hoosiers have cast an early ballot.

As of this past Sunday, 87,649 Hoosiers have voted early either in person or by mail.

A breakdown shows more than 49,000 Republicans have cast an early ballot and 38,000 Hoosiers took a Democratic ballot.

The six counties with the most early votes cast are below…

Lake (Gary, Hammond, East Chicago) – 6,030
Marion (Indianapolis) – 5,882
Allen (Fort Wayne) – 3,439
Hamilton (Indianapolis suburb) – 3,422
Hendricks (Indianapolis suburb) – 3,211
St. Joseph (South Bend, Mishawaka) – 3,139

The primary is May 8.

There are also 2 open seat congressional races, the 4th and 6th, where Messer and Rokita are vacating to run for Senate. One of them Mike Pence's brother is running.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: LimoLiberal on April 30, 2018, 10:11:43 AM
Republicans only leading 56-44 in early votes when the hottest primary in the country is the Republican Senate contest? Yikes.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on April 30, 2018, 10:52:58 AM
Republicans only leading 56-44 in early votes when the hottest primary in the country is the Republican Senate contest? Yikes.

As always, Limo, we should be careful reading too much into primary votes - especially early votes.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 30, 2018, 10:55:53 AM
Republicans only leading 56-44 in early votes when the hottest primary in the country is the Republican Senate contest? Yikes.

As always, Limo, we should be careful reading too much into primary votes - especially early votes.

Yeah... looking into primary votes itself is misleading... but looking into the early votes of the primaries is even worse.

GOP outvoted 2-1 in AZ-08 then only narrowly won.

And in Virginia, dems outvoted GOP 2-1 in the governor primaries, but then only won by 9.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Alabama_Indy10 on April 30, 2018, 11:21:35 AM
Is it just me or does Messer seem like the exact definition of “generic R”?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: henster on April 30, 2018, 11:26:32 AM
Donnelly I think is in even more danger than Heitkamp and Manchin. He has the lowest profiles of any of the red state Dems. He doesn't have the brand that Manchin, McCaskill, Tester, and Heitkamp have, he was just a little known House Rep who got elected in a fluke.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on April 30, 2018, 11:43:51 AM
Donnelly I think is in even more danger than Heitkamp and Manchin. He has the lowest profiles of any of the red state Dems. He doesn't have the brand that Manchin, McCaskill, Tester, and Heitkamp have, he was just a little known House Rep who got elected in a fluke.

This is factually inaccurate. His low profile will be an asset in Indiana and he absolutely has a brand in state.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on April 30, 2018, 02:40:49 PM
Donnelly I think is in even more danger than Heitkamp and Manchin. He has the lowest profiles of any of the red state Dems. He doesn't have the brand that Manchin, McCaskill, Tester, and Heitkamp have, he was just a little known House Rep who got elected in a fluke.

This is factually inaccurate. His low profile will be an asset in Indiana and he absolutely has a brand in state.

I don't know. I only moved here in February 2013 for a job, so his election was shortly before I moved here, but for how much the 3 Republicans talk about him, he strikes me as a bit of a nothing figure politically. He's been a Senator for 5 years and change, what was his landmark legislative achievement?

I once happened on many years ago a copy of Texas Monthly where they were discussing their state legislature's performance, and they had a term "furniture" for elected reps that were there but did pretty much nothing. When I used to live in North Carolina and Elizabeth Dole was one of my Senators, she was "furniture". Donnelly kind of appears the same. He is at the moment the only Democrat that is elected statewide. Republicans have the governor, lieutenant governor, all 7 state officer positions, and the other Senator, so in theory he should be the leader of the Democratic Party throughout the state, and he's not very visible, which speaks more to how irrelevant the Democrats are in the state at the moment. That can change in November of course...but if the Democrats don't get a big wave of some kind in the state in November - Congress, state legislature - they are done in Indiana. Even if Donnelly holds his seat but they somehow don't get much of anything from the Congress seats or the state legislature, they are done, no different than Massachusetts Republicans. When would the mood ever benefit them more than this election?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on April 30, 2018, 03:20:25 PM
Mustache man got close to winning the gov race in 2012 and 2016


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 01, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
Mustache man got close to winning the gov race in 2012 and 2016

2012, sure.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 01, 2018, 10:53:53 AM
Donnelly I think is in even more danger than Heitkamp and Manchin. He has the lowest profiles of any of the red state Dems. He doesn't have the brand that Manchin, McCaskill, Tester, and Heitkamp have, he was just a little known House Rep who got elected in a fluke.

This is factually inaccurate. His low profile will be an asset in Indiana and he absolutely has a brand in state.

I don't know. I only moved here in February 2013 for a job, so his election was shortly before I moved here, but for how much the 3 Republicans talk about him, he strikes me as a bit of a nothing figure politically. He's been a Senator for 5 years and change, what was his landmark legislative achievement?

I once happened on many years ago a copy of Texas Monthly where they were discussing their state legislature's performance, and they had a term "furniture" for elected reps that were there but did pretty much nothing. When I used to live in North Carolina and Elizabeth Dole was one of my Senators, she was "furniture". Donnelly kind of appears the same. He is at the moment the only Democrat that is elected statewide. Republicans have the governor, lieutenant governor, all 7 state officer positions, and the other Senator, so in theory he should be the leader of the Democratic Party throughout the state, and he's not very visible, which speaks more to how irrelevant the Democrats are in the state at the moment. That can change in November of course...but if the Democrats don't get a big wave of some kind in the state in November - Congress, state legislature - they are done in Indiana. Even if Donnelly holds his seat but they somehow don't get much of anything from the Congress seats or the state legislature, they are done, no different than Massachusetts Republicans. When would the mood ever benefit them more than this election?

After May Landrieu and Scott Brown lost, people began writing their respective states’ parties off as irrelevant in statewide races, yet their parties won the subsequent gubernatorial races in said states.

Not saying that would necessarily happen in Indiana, but don’t underestimate the volatility of the American voter, even in “Safe” states

The only person going around the state stumping for Democrats at the moment is...

https://howeypolitics.com/Content/Default/Lead-Story/Article/Atomic-Sen-Undecided-losers-pressers-more-Gregg-sightings/-3/346/17512

Quote
3. Multiple Gregg sightings
 
Right now there is a gaping void in the 2020 gubernatorial race. Gov. Eric Holcomb is riding high with record employment and the big Infosys gem, with Amazon’s HQ2 potentially on the horizon. There is not an obvious Democratic contender. Yet we keep seeing 2012 and 2016 Democratic nominee John Gregg popping up around the state. Last week he was in Richmond. On Monday he was in Crawfordsville honoring the legendary Claude Johnson. On April 12 he was in Terre Haute for William Tanoos’ 8th CD campaign kickoff. He’s endorsed Kerry Forestal for Marion County sheriff. On Sunday, he was there for the opening of J.D. Ford’s SD29 headquarters. Gregg introduced Ford, saying, “JD Ford is in this for all the right reasons and all the right issues. He cares about this area, the community, and about service. He is a candidate who wants to serve our community.” When we interviewed Democratic Chairman John Zody last winter, he mentioned that whoever would be running for governor in 2020 should be out working for Democratic candidates in 2018. Gregg and his LG nominee Christina Hale appear to be the only ones doing that.

Meanwhile, South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg is running for president. :rolleyes:

Back to the purpose of the thread, from the same link:

Quote
1. U.S. Sen. Undecided
 
Here are your Tuesday power lunch talking points: So, Hoosiers, are you ready for Romeo Langford and U.S. Sen. Undecided? Both dominated the Tuesday evening news cycle, with Mr. Basketball announcing he was headed for Bloomington while Todd Rokita and Luke Messer both acknowledged that “undecideds” are leading the Republican trio  in, presumably, internal polling. Rokita told Howey Politics Indiana prior to the debate that the number of undecideds was in the 40% range. Messer said after the debate, “The leader of this race may be the undecideds. We've got the best grass roots campaign by a lot. We're just trying to get this over the finish line."
 
In the nearly quarter a century Howey Politics Indiana  has been publishing, we’ve never seen a race this high up the food chain with such a massive number of voters who have yet to make a decision. When we caught up with Rex Early at the Antelope Club Monday, he said that scores of his cronies at the White River Yacht Club are asking for guidance (Rex is for Rokita). Normally in a senatorial, gubernatorial or congressional race, a week out the campaigns are scrambling for the final 2 to 5%. So this is epic volatility on an unprecedented scale.
 
Conventional wisdom would make one believe this is Mike Braun’s race to lose since he has loaned, spent and gotten the most gross rating points thus far. But after $6 million, Braun hasn’t closed the deal. So we head into Tuesday’s election using the parlance of the pilot Rokita: This is visual flight rules. The gauges are haywire.
 
2. Losers skip the presser?
 
For the first time in the Indiana Debate Commission’s decade of existence, candidates ditched the after-debate presser. Only Luke Messer showed up, with Todd Rokita and Mike Braun figuring that follow ups from the press were too dangerous  to risk in such a volatile scenario. "It seems like there should be some kind of factual indicator of who won and I stand before you in the media talking about the debate,” Messer said. “I guess I won because I'm the only one willing to take questions.” Duly noted.

Republican powerbrokers in the state are ready for this primary to be done. National Committeeman John Hammond has stated this race is one to the bottom and resembles Dante's Inferno. The high number of undecideds must speak in my opinion to the weakness of the three to convince those paying attention of anything while pundits say and I agree with them on this that "when you all answer the same on policy, the only thing left is personality, so that's what they're all doing is attacking that." That said, I don't know how many people are actually watching the debates but it's probably small.

While I think Donnelly is naturally fragile, whoever wins this needs to up it a gear if they want to win in November.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: BuckeyeNut on May 01, 2018, 10:56:31 AM
Good for Gregg. Hoping he doesn’t run again in ‘20, though. Be nice to put Ritz out on the trail...


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on May 01, 2018, 09:41:16 PM
Flawless, Beautiful Braun is a stingy swindler (https://apnews.com/06bb0f1697694e8fb5cd9e775e7e67a5)

I knew it


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Doimper on May 01, 2018, 09:56:24 PM
Flawless, Beautiful Braun is a stingy swindler (https://apnews.com/06bb0f1697694e8fb5cd9e775e7e67a5)

Does anyone else have a hard time telling Messer and Rokita apart?

mike braun literally did an ad about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKHqChRrYg

probably the best republican ad i've seen this cycle

I'm genuinely pretty worried about Braun winning the primary.

I have faith in the Republican primary electorate's finely attuned ability to select the worst possible candidate.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Messer deciding by May
Post by: Atlas Force on May 01, 2018, 10:02:47 PM
Heard it down the grapevine from an Indiana Republican officiant that they don't want Braun to be the nominee. Which doesn't make sense to me, but Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

I think now I know why...

Flawless, Beautiful Braun is a stingy swindler (https://apnews.com/06bb0f1697694e8fb5cd9e775e7e67a5)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 01, 2018, 10:34:39 PM
Flawless, Beautiful Braun is a stingy swindler (https://apnews.com/06bb0f1697694e8fb5cd9e775e7e67a5)

Dunno if this is fatal, necessarily, but in a fluid primary like this it could help Rokita slip by


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: BBD on May 01, 2018, 10:36:59 PM
Easily the nastiest primary in the country. Pure toss-up.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 01, 2018, 10:57:56 PM
Easily the nastiest primary in the country. Pure toss-up.

Yep.

Also - welcome! :)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Blackacre on May 01, 2018, 11:50:52 PM
Well, so much for Braun making this a real race.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on May 02, 2018, 09:37:22 AM
Still thinking that Braun pulls this off. It'll probably be something like the previous prediction said, about 40-35-25. I really, really hope Rokita wins.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: MT Treasurer on May 02, 2018, 10:13:57 AM
The IN GOP giving the MO GOP a run for its money, lol.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Xing on May 02, 2018, 10:47:55 AM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Xing on May 02, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Barack Obama circa 2012 would disagree

Hillary Clinton and the losers of the Republican primary in 2016 wouldn't, though.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 02, 2018, 11:51:43 AM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Are we going to hold from now on every single business owner, government manager, etc. worldwide responsible for every single decision of their Human Resources Department? Just asking for future reference. There's a level of micromanagement required to do that that no one that actually works in the real world wants or expects.

Everyone on this thread, apply this to your own work. You're seriously blaming your CEO and actually think he did the deed? If you think that, maybe in a couple cases that's the truth, but for the rest, I know never to take your opinion on this board seriously again because you're either being contrarian on purpose, so you're lying, or you're ignorant, which isn't a good outcome for you either.

That said, "honorable businessman" is a cliche and Braun is bigging it up better than it is, but calling out a business owner of a company with thousands of employees over the firing of one employee, you're just not an educated person if you think Mike Braun personally looked at the employee's record, called someone up, and said "fire him".


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 02, 2018, 11:57:31 AM
Like I said, I don’t think this is some kind of knockout against Braun, as some seem to think, but they are unhelpful headlines. We’ll see next Tuesday, I guess


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Xing on May 02, 2018, 12:37:23 PM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Are we going to hold from now on every single business owner, government manager, etc. worldwide responsible for every single decision of their Human Resources Department? Just asking for future reference. There's a level of micromanagement required to do that that no one that actually works in the real world wants or expects.

Everyone on this thread, apply this to your own work. You're seriously blaming your CEO and actually think he did the deed? If you think that, maybe in a couple cases that's the truth, but for the rest, I know never to take your opinion on this board seriously again because you're either being contrarian on purpose, so you're lying, or you're ignorant, which isn't a good outcome for you either.

That said, "honorable businessman" is a cliche and Braun is bigging it up better than it is, but calling out a business owner of a company with thousands of employees over the firing of one employee, you're just not an educated person if you think Mike Braun personally looked at the employee's record, called someone up, and said "fire him".

The article suggests that there was much more than one troublesome incident. While it's true that you can't always blame management, when a pattern, such as overtime violations, is noticeable, the management is either responsible or being negligent of the problem. My point was that people are too quick to see "businessman" and think positively of a candidate, and this is problematic to say the least.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 02, 2018, 01:38:59 PM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Are we going to hold from now on every single business owner, government manager, etc. worldwide responsible for every single decision of their Human Resources Department? Just asking for future reference. There's a level of micromanagement required to do that that no one that actually works in the real world wants or expects.

Everyone on this thread, apply this to your own work. You're seriously blaming your CEO and actually think he did the deed? If you think that, maybe in a couple cases that's the truth, but for the rest, I know never to take your opinion on this board seriously again because you're either being contrarian on purpose, so you're lying, or you're ignorant, which isn't a good outcome for you either.

That said, "honorable businessman" is a cliche and Braun is bigging it up better than it is, but calling out a business owner of a company with thousands of employees over the firing of one employee, you're just not an educated person if you think Mike Braun personally looked at the employee's record, called someone up, and said "fire him".

The article suggests that there was much more than one troublesome incident. While it's true that you can't always blame management, when a pattern, such as overtime violations, is noticeable, the management is either responsible or being negligent of the problem. My point was that people are too quick to see "businessman" and think positively of a candidate, and this is problematic to say the least.

My father worked for the Defense Department his entire life. Under your line of thinking, every problem or pattern of problems he experienced, of which they were many, the management - government appointees which were appointed by appointees of the appointed Secretary of Defense who was nominated by the President - were to blame for these problems occurring, which fell on Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama (retired before Trump took office) in a combination of responsibility and negligence on all their parts for not having their appointed Secretary of Defense handle all these problems.

The reason people think highly of "businessman" in the current climate is because it's normally an executive position where you either get stuff done or your company will fall apart and die. If the businessman is a bad businessman, all his employees go on government aid or take a job that doesn't pay as well, and all local government units - counties, cities, states, school boards - have less tax income to take care of their duties. It's a good line compared to two non-practicing attorneys - a profession where people argue one way or another based on who is paying them - that are congressmen when most Americans think Congress accomplishes nothing. And I might even vote for Messer, but that's the honest truth.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Xing on May 02, 2018, 02:00:06 PM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Are we going to hold from now on every single business owner, government manager, etc. worldwide responsible for every single decision of their Human Resources Department? Just asking for future reference. There's a level of micromanagement required to do that that no one that actually works in the real world wants or expects.

Everyone on this thread, apply this to your own work. You're seriously blaming your CEO and actually think he did the deed? If you think that, maybe in a couple cases that's the truth, but for the rest, I know never to take your opinion on this board seriously again because you're either being contrarian on purpose, so you're lying, or you're ignorant, which isn't a good outcome for you either.

That said, "honorable businessman" is a cliche and Braun is bigging it up better than it is, but calling out a business owner of a company with thousands of employees over the firing of one employee, you're just not an educated person if you think Mike Braun personally looked at the employee's record, called someone up, and said "fire him".

The article suggests that there was much more than one troublesome incident. While it's true that you can't always blame management, when a pattern, such as overtime violations, is noticeable, the management is either responsible or being negligent of the problem. My point was that people are too quick to see "businessman" and think positively of a candidate, and this is problematic to say the least.

My father worked for the Defense Department his entire life. Under your line of thinking, every problem or pattern of problems he experienced, of which they were many, the management - government appointees which were appointed by appointees of the appointed Secretary of Defense who was nominated by the President - were to blame for these problems occurring, which fell on Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama (retired before Trump took office) in a combination of responsibility and negligence on all their parts for not having their appointed Secretary of Defense handle all these problems.

The reason people think highly of "businessman" in the current climate is because it's normally an executive position where you either get stuff done or your company will fall apart and die. If the businessman is a bad businessman, all his employees go on government aid or take a job that doesn't pay as well, and all local government units - counties, cities, states, school boards - have less tax income to take care of their duties. It's a good line compared to two non-practicing attorneys - a profession where people argue one way or another based on who is paying them - that are congressmen when most Americans think Congress accomplishes nothing. And I might even vote for Messer, but that's the honest truth.

Except that the president does not "own" the state department in the same way that a CEO owns a company. My point is not that CEOs bear all of the responsibility, but when there are patterns of problems/negligence that happen under your watch, you can't deflect all o the responsibility and call yourself a "good businessman".

As for the bolded part, the fact is, many who tout themselves as businessmen do get things done... at the expense of their employees. Often businesses cut corners for the sake of making more profit with little regard for their workers. I'm tired of them being seen as good businessmen because their company ended up with a strong bottom line.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 02, 2018, 02:00:21 PM
Thought you were a Braun guy, StateBoiler?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 02, 2018, 02:16:39 PM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Are we going to hold from now on every single business owner, government manager, etc. worldwide responsible for every single decision of their Human Resources Department? Just asking for future reference. There's a level of micromanagement required to do that that no one that actually works in the real world wants or expects.

Everyone on this thread, apply this to your own work. You're seriously blaming your CEO and actually think he did the deed? If you think that, maybe in a couple cases that's the truth, but for the rest, I know never to take your opinion on this board seriously again because you're either being contrarian on purpose, so you're lying, or you're ignorant, which isn't a good outcome for you either.

That said, "honorable businessman" is a cliche and Braun is bigging it up better than it is, but calling out a business owner of a company with thousands of employees over the firing of one employee, you're just not an educated person if you think Mike Braun personally looked at the employee's record, called someone up, and said "fire him".

The article suggests that there was much more than one troublesome incident. While it's true that you can't always blame management, when a pattern, such as overtime violations, is noticeable, the management is either responsible or being negligent of the problem. My point was that people are too quick to see "businessman" and think positively of a candidate, and this is problematic to say the least.

My father worked for the Defense Department his entire life. Under your line of thinking, every problem or pattern of problems he experienced, of which they were many, the management - government appointees which were appointed by appointees of the appointed Secretary of Defense who was nominated by the President - were to blame for these problems occurring, which fell on Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama (retired before Trump took office) in a combination of responsibility and negligence on all their parts for not having their appointed Secretary of Defense handle all these problems.

The reason people think highly of "businessman" in the current climate is because it's normally an executive position where you either get stuff done or your company will fall apart and die. If the businessman is a bad businessman, all his employees go on government aid or take a job that doesn't pay as well, and all local government units - counties, cities, states, school boards - have less tax income to take care of their duties. It's a good line compared to two non-practicing attorneys - a profession where people argue one way or another based on who is paying them - that are congressmen when most Americans think Congress accomplishes nothing. And I might even vote for Messer, but that's the honest truth.

Except that the president does not "own" the state department in the same way that a CEO owns a company. My point is not that CEOs bear all of the responsibility, but when there are patterns of problems/negligence that happen under your watch, you can't deflect all o the responsibility and call yourself a "good businessman".

Yes, because from working in the real world, I and everyone else knows that the underlings make sure the CEO and the Board of Directors know absolutely everything...

So when there are patterns of problems/negligence that happen in a cabinet department, why do people attack the president? (That's true for whichever party is in the White House. Since I've reached adulthood, I could cite multiple examples for the last 3 presidents.)

You're having your cake and eating it too a bit in your attempt at this argument. You want to push argument A, you have to either accept the corollary to that or withdraw your argument. CEOs are responsible for the business, just as the President is responsible for the Defense Department, that does not they are responsible for every single low-level decision.

Quote
As for the bolded part, the fact is, many who tout themselves as businessmen do get things done... at the expense of their employees. Often businesses cut corners for the sake of making more profit with little regard for their workers. I'm tired of them being seen as good businessmen because their company ended up with a strong bottom line.

I'm not going to sit here and act like the entire group are saints. Morals and ethics are not defined by vocation. But most people have a higher opinion of them as a group than they do politicians as a group at the moment. If Braun and his staff didn't think voters liked hearing he was a successful businessman, he wouldn't be stating it. If Rokita and Messer thought voters would be impressed with their congressional experience, they would be citing it more often than they are.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 02, 2018, 02:21:19 PM
Thought you were a Braun guy, StateBoiler?

I'm definitely not a Rokita guy. I'm leaning more toward Braun than Messer, but before I vote in the primary I'll try to listen to the last debate from this past Monday. If it was a straight up Rokita-Braun race and Messer had little to no chance at winning, I'll probably vote Braun. But if there are as many undecideds as everyone thinks there are, it's literally anyone's ballgame, which is a plus to Messer's chances. This is a pretty crazy race for it being so high-profile as far as it being Senate, it's a 3-way race, and the complete lack of good polling.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Blackacre on May 02, 2018, 02:51:38 PM
Indiana should seriously consider doing the following:

  • Adopt a runoff or IRV system for primaries
  • Talk other states into doing the same thing

Especially if Rokita wins by a plurality.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: BuckeyeNut on May 02, 2018, 03:10:01 PM
Still thinking that Braun pulls this off. It'll probably be something like the previous prediction said, about 40-35-25. I really, really hope Rokita wins.

40% Braun, is 35% Rokita, 25% Messer? That’s damn embarrassing for Messer. I know many people who will be glad to see him gone from Congress, but at the cost of another Pence in Congress? Lordy, I don’t know.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 02, 2018, 03:55:11 PM
Thought you were a Braun guy, StateBoiler?

I'm definitely not a Rokita guy. I'm leaning more toward Braun than Messer, but before I vote in the primary I'll try to listen to the last debate from this past Monday. If it was a straight up Rokita-Braun race and Messer had little to no chance at winning, I'll probably vote Braun. But if there are as many undecideds as everyone thinks there are, it's literally anyone's ballgame, which is a plus to Messer's chances. This is a pretty crazy race for it being so high-profile as far as it being Senate, it's a 3-way race, and the complete lack of good polling.

Indiana’s polling rules probably don’t help


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Xing on May 02, 2018, 03:57:23 PM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Are we going to hold from now on every single business owner, government manager, etc. worldwide responsible for every single decision of their Human Resources Department? Just asking for future reference. There's a level of micromanagement required to do that that no one that actually works in the real world wants or expects.

Everyone on this thread, apply this to your own work. You're seriously blaming your CEO and actually think he did the deed? If you think that, maybe in a couple cases that's the truth, but for the rest, I know never to take your opinion on this board seriously again because you're either being contrarian on purpose, so you're lying, or you're ignorant, which isn't a good outcome for you either.

That said, "honorable businessman" is a cliche and Braun is bigging it up better than it is, but calling out a business owner of a company with thousands of employees over the firing of one employee, you're just not an educated person if you think Mike Braun personally looked at the employee's record, called someone up, and said "fire him".

The article suggests that there was much more than one troublesome incident. While it's true that you can't always blame management, when a pattern, such as overtime violations, is noticeable, the management is either responsible or being negligent of the problem. My point was that people are too quick to see "businessman" and think positively of a candidate, and this is problematic to say the least.

My father worked for the Defense Department his entire life. Under your line of thinking, every problem or pattern of problems he experienced, of which they were many, the management - government appointees which were appointed by appointees of the appointed Secretary of Defense who was nominated by the President - were to blame for these problems occurring, which fell on Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama (retired before Trump took office) in a combination of responsibility and negligence on all their parts for not having their appointed Secretary of Defense handle all these problems.

The reason people think highly of "businessman" in the current climate is because it's normally an executive position where you either get stuff done or your company will fall apart and die. If the businessman is a bad businessman, all his employees go on government aid or take a job that doesn't pay as well, and all local government units - counties, cities, states, school boards - have less tax income to take care of their duties. It's a good line compared to two non-practicing attorneys - a profession where people argue one way or another based on who is paying them - that are congressmen when most Americans think Congress accomplishes nothing. And I might even vote for Messer, but that's the honest truth.

Except that the president does not "own" the state department in the same way that a CEO owns a company. My point is not that CEOs bear all of the responsibility, but when there are patterns of problems/negligence that happen under your watch, you can't deflect all o the responsibility and call yourself a "good businessman".

Yes, because from working in the real world, I and everyone else knows that the underlings make sure the CEO and the Board of Directors know absolutely everything...

So when there are patterns of problems/negligence that happen in a cabinet department, why do people attack the president? (That's true for whichever party is in the White House. Since I've reached adulthood, I could cite multiple examples for the last 3 presidents.)

You're having your cake and eating it too a bit in your attempt at this argument. You want to push argument A, you have to either accept the corollary to that or withdraw your argument. CEOs are responsible for the business, just as the President is responsible for the Defense Department, that does not they are responsible for every single low-level decision.

Quote
As for the bolded part, the fact is, many who tout themselves as businessmen do get things done... at the expense of their employees. Often businesses cut corners for the sake of making more profit with little regard for their workers. I'm tired of them being seen as good businessmen because their company ended up with a strong bottom line.

I'm not going to sit here and act like the entire group are saints. Morals and ethics are not defined by vocation. But most people have a higher opinion of them as a group than they do politicians as a group at the moment. If Braun and his staff didn't think voters liked hearing he was a successful businessman, he wouldn't be stating it. If Rokita and Messer thought voters would be impressed with their congressional experience, they would be citing it more often than they are.

My point was that it's not a direct parallel, comparing the president to the State Department and a CEO to his company. If there is a pattern of corruption in the State Department, though, does the President bear no responsibility?

I believe that businessman who run for office are the ones who want to have their cake and eat it too. They like to take credit for the success of their company, while deflecting any responsibility for poor treatment/lack of fair compensation for their workers on HR or management at a lower level.

And I'm aware that voters see businessmen more favorably than politicians and I understand why. I'm simply pointing out why it's problematic. And as I said, I don't think this is going to hurt Braun much, if at all.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on May 02, 2018, 04:05:04 PM
I am proud to have voted against both outsider businessmen in the 2016 election (republican Donald Trump and democrat Jim Barksadale)

I like my politicians to be actual politicians... granted Braun actually does have experience in a legislature, so he is acceptable.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Atlas Force on May 02, 2018, 04:05:19 PM
Thought you were a Braun guy, StateBoiler?

I'm definitely not a Rokita guy. I'm leaning more toward Braun than Messer, but before I vote in the primary I'll try to listen to the last debate from this past Monday. If it was a straight up Rokita-Braun race and Messer had little to no chance at winning, I'll probably vote Braun. But if there are as many undecideds as everyone thinks there are, it's literally anyone's ballgame, which is a plus to Messer's chances. This is a pretty crazy race for it being so high-profile as far as it being Senate, it's a 3-way race, and the complete lack of good polling.

Indiana’s polling rules probably don’t help

Not that familiar with Indiana politics, what are these rules like?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 02, 2018, 04:44:55 PM
Thought you were a Braun guy, StateBoiler?

I'm definitely not a Rokita guy. I'm leaning more toward Braun than Messer, but before I vote in the primary I'll try to listen to the last debate from this past Monday. If it was a straight up Rokita-Braun race and Messer had little to no chance at winning, I'll probably vote Braun. But if there are as many undecideds as everyone thinks there are, it's literally anyone's ballgame, which is a plus to Messer's chances. This is a pretty crazy race for it being so high-profile as far as it being Senate, it's a 3-way race, and the complete lack of good polling.

Indiana’s polling rules probably don’t help

Not that familiar with Indiana politics, what are these rules like?

I believe they make it very hard to do anything other than expensive live-caller polls


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: publicunofficial on May 02, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
I am proud to have voted against both outsider businessmen in the 2016 election (republican Donald Trump and democrat Jim Barksadale)

I like my politicians to be actual politicians... granted Braun actually does have experience in a legislature, so he is acceptable.

*huffs this post* THIS....This is that GOOD Atlas.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Holy Unifying Centrist on May 02, 2018, 04:53:28 PM
I am proud to have voted against both outsider businessmen in the 2016 election (republican Donald Trump and democrat Jim Barksadale)

I like my politicians to be actual politicians... granted Braun actually does have experience in a legislature, so he is acceptable.

*huffs this post* THIS....This is that GOOD Atlas.


Businessmen are thugs that exploit the workers!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: publicunofficial on May 02, 2018, 04:59:15 PM
I am proud to have voted against both outsider businessmen in the 2016 election (republican Donald Trump and democrat Jim Barksadale)

I like my politicians to be actual politicians... granted Braun actually does have experience in a legislature, so he is acceptable.

*huffs this post* THIS....This is that GOOD Atlas.


Businessmen are thugs that exploit the workers!

True! So are most long term politicians!

My ideal congress is full of people from all sorts of backgrounds. Teachers, nurses, public defenders, soldiers, ect. A congress full of only "lawyers with political science degrees that served a few terms in some legislature" somewhere would be god awful.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on May 02, 2018, 05:49:55 PM
That's definitely not going to do Braun in, in a primary or general. A lot of voters like the idea of having a "businessman" in power, and care little to nothing about the history and dealings of said "businessman." But let's dispel with the fiction that Braun is the "reasonable" candidate in the race.

Barack Obama circa 2012 would disagree
As would Jennifer Granholm circa 2006.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 02, 2018, 05:55:09 PM
I am proud to have voted against both outsider businessmen in the 2016 election (republican Donald Trump and democrat Jim Barksadale)

I like my politicians to be actual politicians... granted Braun actually does have experience in a legislature, so he is acceptable.

*huffs this post* THIS....This is that GOOD Atlas.


Businessmen are thugs that exploit the workers!

True! So are most long term politicians!

My ideal congress is full of people from all sorts of backgrounds. Teachers, nurses, public defenders, soldiers, ect. A congress full of only "lawyers with political science degrees that served a few terms in some legislature" somewhere would be god awful.

Good thing that’s not the Congress we have!

...wait


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on May 02, 2018, 07:04:46 PM
Flawless, Beautiful Braun is a stingy swindler (https://apnews.com/06bb0f1697694e8fb5cd9e775e7e67a5)

Republicans love swindlers now. Just look at our Republican President. This probably helps Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 03, 2018, 10:39:36 AM
I am proud to have voted against both outsider businessmen in the 2016 election (republican Donald Trump and democrat Jim Barksadale)

I like my politicians to be actual politicians... granted Braun actually does have experience in a legislature, so he is acceptable.

*huffs this post* THIS....This is that GOOD Atlas.


Businessmen are thugs that exploit the workers!

True! So are most long term politicians!

My ideal congress is full of people from all sorts of backgrounds. Teachers, nurses, public defenders, soldiers, ect. A congress full of only "lawyers with political science degrees that served a few terms in some legislature" somewhere would be god awful.

I'd agree with that provided the teachers, nurses, public defenders, soldiers, etc. could pass a civics test.

Actually that's not a bad requirement to have for anyone seeking public office. If you can't pass it, you have no business being on a ballot anyway.

I am in full agreement the number of lawyers regardless of what their party affiliation is should decrease.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 04, 2018, 09:38:09 AM
I put this on Pence's influence on him as veep, but President Trump will visit Joe Donnelly's hometown of South Bend on Thursday, May 10th, 2 days after the primary in what is seen as a come-together party. Brian Howey: "if all 3 Senate candidates are not there, it will be ominous".

Voted yesterday. I pondered between Braun and Messer, but in the end voted for Braun. My wife voted earlier in the day and told me she voted for Messer.

So confirmed vote count so far including Bismarck's vote is:

Braun 2
Messer 1
Rokita 0


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: tmthforu94 on May 04, 2018, 09:55:18 AM
I put this on Pence's influence on him as veep, but President Trump will visit Joe Donnelly's hometown of South Bend on Thursday, May 10th, 2 days after the primary in what is seen as a come-together party. Brian Howey: "if all 3 Senate candidates are not there, it will be ominous".

Voted yesterday. I pondered between Braun and Messer, but in the end voted for Braun. My wife voted earlier in the day and told me she voted for Messer.

So confirmed vote count so far including Bismarck's vote is:

Braun 2
Messer 1
Rokita 0
Rokita has lost too much ground, I don't think he'll be able to come back from this.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on May 10, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
"Moderate reasonable flawless" Braun showed up to the Trump rally in Indiana today where Trump attacked O Donnelly







Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Doimper on May 10, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
One of our D-IN avatars needs to change their username to "Really Incredible Swamp Person"


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on May 10, 2018, 11:30:30 PM
I put this on Pence's influence on him as veep, but President Trump will visit Joe Donnelly's hometown of South Bend on Thursday, May 10th, 2 days after the primary in what is seen as a come-together party. Brian Howey: "if all 3 Senate candidates are not there, it will be ominous".

Voted yesterday. I pondered between Braun and Messer, but in the end voted for Braun. My wife voted earlier in the day and told me she voted for Messer.

So confirmed vote count so far including Bismarck's vote is:

Braun 2
Messer 1
Rokita 0

So did all 3 candidates show up?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: StateBoiler on May 11, 2018, 11:43:51 AM
Rokita yes. Messer no.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on May 11, 2018, 07:33:20 PM
"Moderate reasonable flawless" Braun showed up to the Drumpf rally in Indiana today where Drumpf attacked O Donnelly







How dare he not support torture! This is the new Republican tactic? The GOP really wants to be the party of torture? It's actually nothing new for them, but I still just hate our reality so much.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: wesmoorenerd on May 24, 2018, 08:31:13 PM
Not a lot of Indiana talk, eh?

The imbalance between the MO-GOP and IN-GOP has just become comical. A year ago McCaskill was definitely more vulnerable than Donnelly, but one state GOP has been decently competent and the other certainly has not. Braun is the only GOP challenger to any Dem Senator that I would consider an (exceedingly slight) favorite right now.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Shameless Lefty Hack on May 26, 2018, 05:21:21 PM
Not a lot of Indiana talk, eh?

The imbalance between the MO-GOP and IN-GOP has just become comical. A year ago McCaskill was definitely more vulnerable than Donnelly, but one state GOP has been decently competent and the other certainly has not. Braun is the only GOP challenger to any Dem Senator that I would consider an (exceedingly slight) favorite right now.

Indiana Republicans lucked out since they had a rich “some guy” to vote for as opposed to having to vote for one of their already elected officials.

Yeah, I'd say that the INGOP was so incompetent they completely removed themselves from the equation tbh.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: TheRocketRaccoon on June 08, 2018, 09:12:36 PM
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/gop-poll-donnelly-in-position-to-win-in-indiana

Quote
Former state Rep. Mike Braun, the GOP nominee, led Donnelly, 50-42 percent in the 3rd Congressional District, according to a survey of 401 likely voters conducted May 29-31 by WPAi for GOP Rep. Jim Banks.

While that might not sound like good news for the senator, it’s remarkably similar to his marks in 2012, when he lost the 3rd District to state Treasurer Richard Mourdock 53-40 percent (according to Daily Kos Elections) but won statewide 50-44 percent. In 2008, President Barack Obama received 43 percent in the Fort Wayne-anchored seat and won narrowly statewide.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Dr Oz Lost Party! on June 08, 2018, 09:19:10 PM
If Donnelly pulls off a win, I find it hard to believe the GOP picks up any Senate seat in November.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on June 08, 2018, 10:35:35 PM
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/gop-poll-donnelly-in-position-to-win-in-indiana

Quote
Former state Rep. Mike Braun, the GOP nominee, led Donnelly, 50-42 percent in the 3rd Congressional District, according to a survey of 401 likely voters conducted May 29-31 by WPAi for GOP Rep. Jim Banks.

While that might not sound like good news for the senator, it’s remarkably similar to his marks in 2012, when he lost the 3rd District to state Treasurer Richard Mourdock 53-40 percent (according to Daily Kos Elections) but won statewide 50-44 percent. In 2008, President Barack Obama received 43 percent in the Fort Wayne-anchored seat and won narrowly statewide.

Donelley will win in 2018 and Braun is overrated. Nobody cares about candidate quality as long as Trump is president


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Doimper on June 08, 2018, 10:38:39 PM
I saw 50-42 at first and was like "ouch" thinking it was statewide; then I saw CD-3 and was like "nevermind".


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: LimoLiberal on June 08, 2018, 10:40:19 PM
Is Roll Call Atlas now? When did it become acceptable to extrapolate statewide elections from <400 person house district polling, especially in a state with 9 districts.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on June 08, 2018, 10:41:40 PM
Is Roll Call Atlas now? When did it become acceptable to extrapolate statewide elections from <400 person house district polling, especially in a state with 9 districts.

This coming from the guy who extrapolated that rain in NOVA would doom Northam


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on June 08, 2018, 11:17:15 PM
Is Roll Call Atlas now? When did it become acceptable to extrapolate statewide elections from <400 person house district polling, especially in a state with 9 districts.

If you’re seriously posing this question then I’m not sure why you hang out on political forums.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: LimoLiberal on June 08, 2018, 11:28:05 PM
Is Roll Call Atlas now? When did it become acceptable to extrapolate statewide elections from <400 person house district polling, especially in a state with 9 districts.

If you’re seriously posing this question then I’m not sure why you hang out on political forums.

That's the point. That extrapolation is totally expected and ostensibly common on political nerd forums. I don't think it should be written on and expounded by news organizations, however, because the practice is fraught with problems (political geographic coalitions can change in six years, n=400, etc.) Not to mention this Roll Call analysis was propagated by Enten and other dem favoring political gurus, who really should know better.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on June 09, 2018, 01:58:39 AM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: OneJ on June 09, 2018, 02:46:21 AM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.

“Donnelly down by 20 in IN-03. This goes against the rising numbers in the GCB for Democrats.”


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on June 09, 2018, 08:02:32 PM
If Donnelly pulls off a win, I find it hard to believe the GOP picks up any Senate seat in November.

His seat is a pretty good bellwether for the Senate elections.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: GeorgiaModerate on June 09, 2018, 08:08:55 PM
If Donnelly pulls off a win, I find it hard to believe the GOP picks up any Senate seat in November.

His seat is a pretty good bellwether for the Senate elections.

Yes, and since Indiana polls close at 6 pm, a strong showing by either side would give us an early clue as to how things are likely to go nationally.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: TheSaint250 on June 09, 2018, 11:08:37 PM
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/gop-poll-donnelly-in-position-to-win-in-indiana

Quote
Former state Rep. Mike Braun, the GOP nominee, led Donnelly, 50-42 percent in the 3rd Congressional District, according to a survey of 401 likely voters conducted May 29-31 by WPAi for GOP Rep. Jim Banks.

While that might not sound like good news for the senator, it’s remarkably similar to his marks in 2012, when he lost the 3rd District to state Treasurer Richard Mourdock 53-40 percent (according to Daily Kos Elections) but won statewide 50-44 percent. In 2008, President Barack Obama received 43 percent in the Fort Wayne-anchored seat and won narrowly statewide.

Donelley will win in 2018 and Braun is overrated. Nobody cares about candidate quality as long as Trump is president


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on June 09, 2018, 11:13:37 PM
If Donnelly pulls off a win, I find it hard to believe the GOP picks up any Senate seat in November.

His seat is a pretty good bellwether for the Senate elections.

Yes, and since Indiana polls close at 6 pm, a strong showing by either side would give us an early clue as to how things are likely to go nationally.

Indeed. IN-Sen and KY-6 will be good early indicators.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on June 10, 2018, 04:57:25 PM
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/gop-poll-donnelly-in-position-to-win-in-indiana

Quote
Former state Rep. Mike Braun, the GOP nominee, led Donnelly, 50-42 percent in the 3rd Congressional District, according to a survey of 401 likely voters conducted May 29-31 by WPAi for GOP Rep. Jim Banks.

While that might not sound like good news for the senator, it’s remarkably similar to his marks in 2012, when he lost the 3rd District to state Treasurer Richard Mourdock 53-40 percent (according to Daily Kos Elections) but won statewide 50-44 percent. In 2008, President Barack Obama received 43 percent in the Fort Wayne-anchored seat and won narrowly statewide.

Donelley will win in 2018 and Braun is overrated. Nobody cares about candidate quality as long as Trump is president

Not like they cared about candidate quality before Trump was president either. Proof: Trump is now president.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on June 10, 2018, 08:05:58 PM
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/gop-poll-donnelly-in-position-to-win-in-indiana

Quote
Former state Rep. Mike Braun, the GOP nominee, led Donnelly, 50-42 percent in the 3rd Congressional District, according to a survey of 401 likely voters conducted May 29-31 by WPAi for GOP Rep. Jim Banks.

While that might not sound like good news for the senator, it’s remarkably similar to his marks in 2012, when he lost the 3rd District to state Treasurer Richard Mourdock 53-40 percent (according to Daily Kos Elections) but won statewide 50-44 percent. In 2008, President Barack Obama received 43 percent in the Fort Wayne-anchored seat and won narrowly statewide.

Donelley will win in 2018 and Braun is overrated. Nobody cares about candidate quality as long as Trump is president

Not like they cared about candidate quality before Trump was president either. Proof: Trump is now president.

Candidate quality is overrated. Clownback won re-election in 2014 with a 25% approval rating against the strongest Dem in the state. Hillary lost against a bozo like Trump despite Obama leaving office with a 60% approval rating.

I get under that Obama...Dems are used to losing because all the elections from 2010-2016 were a disaster but now the tables have turned and its the GOP's job to defend seats that should of been easy pick-ups....they are going to get the same treatment Dems got.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Blackacre on June 11, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.

“Donnelly down by 20 in IN-03. This goes against the rising numbers in the GCB for Democrats.”

First of all, his name isn't Andrew.

Secondly, while the IN-03 numbers look good for Donnelly, polling of individual districts can be really imprecise, and this is a secondary question in one poll for one district. It doesn't change my perception of the race as a tossup. If the Senator were that well-positioned, Id like to see it in a statewide poll.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on June 11, 2018, 12:30:15 PM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.

“Donnelly down by 20 in IN-03. This goes against the rising numbers in the GCB for Democrats.”

First of all, his name isn't Andrew.

Secondly, while the IN-03 numbers look good for Donnelly, polling of individual districts can be really imprecise, and this is a secondary question in one poll for one district. It doesn't change my perception of the race as a tossup. If the Senator were that well-positioned, Id like to see it in a statewide poll.

Obviously one individual district poll isn't super reliable. The entire point was that Andrew would not care about these concerns and would treat it as gospel if it showed bad news for Donnelly rather than good news.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Blackacre on June 11, 2018, 12:35:59 PM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.

“Donnelly down by 20 in IN-03. This goes against the rising numbers in the GCB for Democrats.”

First of all, his name isn't Andrew.

Secondly, while the IN-03 numbers look good for Donnelly, polling of individual districts can be really imprecise, and this is a secondary question in one poll for one district. It doesn't change my perception of the race as a tossup. If the Senator were that well-positioned, Id like to see it in a statewide poll.

Obviously one individual district poll isn't super reliable. The entire point was that Andrew would not care about these concerns and would treat it as gospel if it showed bad news for Donnelly rather than good news.

You might be right, but we should still keep in mind that, no matter his motives, Limo having concerns about the one IN-03 poll is a good take, and healthy caution is always warranted.  He's not some sinister dude named Andrew, he's a 15 year old kid named redacted who's trying to make sense of an election environment that hasn't happened since he was five.

If he jumps on an indicator as unreliable as this one IN-03 poll for a different race that has different implications, we should just throw his arguments regarding this IN-03 poll back at him.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Hindsight was 2020 on June 11, 2018, 01:13:07 PM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.

“Donnelly down by 20 in IN-03. This goes against the rising numbers in the GCB for Democrats.”

First of all, his name isn't Andrew.

Secondly, while the IN-03 numbers look good for Donnelly, polling of individual districts can be really imprecise, and this is a secondary question in one poll for one district. It doesn't change my perception of the race as a tossup. If the Senator were that well-positioned, Id like to see it in a statewide poll.

Obviously one individual district poll isn't super reliable. The entire point was that Andrew would not care about these concerns and would treat it as gospel if it showed bad news for Donnelly rather than good news.

You might be right, but we should still keep in mind that, no matter his motives, Limo having concerns about the one IN-03 poll is a good take, and healthy caution is always warranted.  He's not some sinister dude named Andrew, he's a 15 year old kid named redacted who's trying to make sense of an election environment that hasn't happened since he was five.

If he jumps on an indicator as unreliable as this one IN-03 poll for a different race that has different implications, we should just throw his arguments regarding this IN-03 poll back at him.
15? I could of sworn Limo has said he’s in college


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Blackacre on June 11, 2018, 01:14:39 PM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.

“Donnelly down by 20 in IN-03. This goes against the rising numbers in the GCB for Democrats.”

First of all, his name isn't Andrew.

Secondly, while the IN-03 numbers look good for Donnelly, polling of individual districts can be really imprecise, and this is a secondary question in one poll for one district. It doesn't change my perception of the race as a tossup. If the Senator were that well-positioned, Id like to see it in a statewide poll.

Obviously one individual district poll isn't super reliable. The entire point was that Andrew would not care about these concerns and would treat it as gospel if it showed bad news for Donnelly rather than good news.

You might be right, but we should still keep in mind that, no matter his motives, Limo having concerns about the one IN-03 poll is a good take, and healthy caution is always warranted.  He's not some sinister dude named Andrew, he's a 15 year old kid named redacted who's trying to make sense of an election environment that hasn't happened since he was five.

If he jumps on an indicator as unreliable as this one IN-03 poll for a different race that has different implications, we should just throw his arguments regarding this IN-03 poll back at him.
15? I could of sworn Limo has said he’s in college

Nah, he's in high school.

Back to the topic at hand, Id REALLY like another public poll to take a swing at this race. Maybe Reuters or PPP or WaPo. It's annoying that we're only working with one poll and it's a Gravis.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: ON Progressive on June 11, 2018, 01:37:27 PM
Suddenly Andrew wants to give rational analysis and consider the bigger picture when a poll shows good news for a Democrat, when we all know if it had Donnelly down 20 he'd be the first one declaring him doomed.

“Donnelly down by 20 in IN-03. This goes against the rising numbers in the GCB for Democrats.”

First of all, his name isn't Andrew.

Secondly, while the IN-03 numbers look good for Donnelly, polling of individual districts can be really imprecise, and this is a secondary question in one poll for one district. It doesn't change my perception of the race as a tossup. If the Senator were that well-positioned, Id like to see it in a statewide poll.

Obviously one individual district poll isn't super reliable. The entire point was that Andrew would not care about these concerns and would treat it as gospel if it showed bad news for Donnelly rather than good news.

You might be right, but we should still keep in mind that, no matter his motives, Limo having concerns about the one IN-03 poll is a good take, and healthy caution is always warranted.  He's not some sinister dude named Andrew, he's a 15 year old kid named redacted who's trying to make sense of an election environment that hasn't happened since he was five.

If he jumps on an indicator as unreliable as this one IN-03 poll for a different race that has different implications, we should just throw his arguments regarding this IN-03 poll back at him.

His age is not an excuse here. I don't remember a Dem favorable midterm in my lifetime myself, and I'm not going around concern trolling like he does.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: GMantis on June 12, 2018, 08:27:07 AM
The Indiana election division finally got around to publishing the final election results of the primary:

() (https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=2018&fips=18&f=0&off=3&elect=2)

Seems that Braun won all districts expect Messer's, likely including Rokita's district.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: GMantis on June 12, 2018, 10:23:01 AM
The Indiana election division finally got around to publishing the final election results of the primary:

Seems that Braun won all districts expect Messer's, likely including Rokita's district.

Where did they publish them?
Here. (http://indianaenr.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/site/index.html)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: libertpaulian on July 26, 2018, 08:50:57 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on July 30, 2018, 03:10:41 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: libertpaulian on July 30, 2018, 03:11:35 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.
Joe's been running a very mediocre campaign so far, and it's really pissing me off.  Braun is a fierce attack dog, and Donnelly is still trying to play Mr. Nice Guy.

I just hope that when Donnelly votes for Kavanaugh, the Dem base doesn't stay home.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: UWS on July 30, 2018, 03:18:35 PM
I Like Mike


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Pyro on July 30, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.
Joe's been running a very mediocre campaign so far, and it's really pissing me off.  Braun is a fierce attack dog, and Donnelly is still trying to play Mr. Nice Guy.

I just hope that when Donnelly votes for Kavanaugh, the Dem base doesn't stay home.


Donnelly will surely rally Democratic voters by *checks notes* voting for Trump's Supreme Court nominee.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on July 30, 2018, 03:24:46 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.
Joe's been running a very mediocre campaign so far, and it's really pissing me off.  Braun is a fierce attack dog, and Donnelly is still trying to play Mr. Nice Guy.

I just hope that when Donnelly votes for Kavanaugh, the Dem base doesn't stay home.


Donnelly will surely rally Democratic voters by *checks notes* voting for Trump's Supreme Court nominee.

And I'm sure an Ocasio Cortez type figure would have gotten elected in Indiana and also have an actual fighting chance of reelection.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: new_patomic on July 30, 2018, 03:43:29 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.
Joe's been running a very mediocre campaign so far, and it's really pissing me off.  Braun is a fierce attack dog, and Donnelly is still trying to play Mr. Nice Guy.

I just hope that when Donnelly votes for Kavanaugh, the Dem base doesn't stay home.


Donnelly will surely rally Democratic voters by *checks notes* voting for Trump's Supreme Court nominee.

And I'm sure an Ocasio Cortez type figure would have gotten elected in Indiana and also have an actual fighting chance of reelection.

Ideally there would be something between Joe "Hoosier Common Sense" Donnelly and Ocasio Cortez.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on July 30, 2018, 04:00:11 PM
Conor Lamb showed us exactly how you can be a fiery populist and still win in right-wing areas. Of course it's a different style than AOC's, but the substance isn't that far.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on July 30, 2018, 04:07:48 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.
Joe's been running a very mediocre campaign so far, and it's really pissing me off.  Braun is a fierce attack dog, and Donnelly is still trying to play Mr. Nice Guy.

I just hope that when Donnelly votes for Kavanaugh, the Dem base doesn't stay home.


Donnelly will surely rally Democratic voters by *checks notes* voting for Trump's Supreme Court nominee.

And I'm sure an Ocasio Cortez type figure would have gotten elected in Indiana and also have an actual fighting chance of reelection.

Ideally there would be something between Joe "Hoosier Common Sense" Donnelly and Ocasio Cortez.


Fair point.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on July 30, 2018, 06:16:48 PM
Irrelevant anecdote, but my friend from Indiana (Hamilton County) was a Romney/Donnelly/Gregg voter in 2012 and didn't vote at all in 2016. She said she's hearing a lot of ads attacking Donnelly for voting against "middle class tax cuts" on the radio. She said she'll be voting for Donnelly and reminding all her friends to vote as well. She's very anti-Trump.

Very caricaturish indeed. :P


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: new_patomic on July 30, 2018, 07:33:20 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.
Joe's been running a very mediocre campaign so far, and it's really pissing me off.  Braun is a fierce attack dog, and Donnelly is still trying to play Mr. Nice Guy.

I just hope that when Donnelly votes for Kavanaugh, the Dem base doesn't stay home.


Donnelly will surely rally Democratic voters by *checks notes* voting for Trump's Supreme Court nominee.

And I'm sure an Ocasio Cortez type figure would have gotten elected in Indiana and also have an actual fighting chance of reelection.

Ideally there would be something between Joe "Hoosier Common Sense" Donnelly and Ocasio Cortez.


Fair point.

I mean, this being Indiana he obviously can't tact that left. But Donnelly just comes off as so... bland.

I don't want to judge him on his campaign website, but if 'common sense' became a platform then this would be it. It's all about bipartisanship and not stepping on any toes. He talks about education, yet can't even include a line about free community college. Talks about jobs and the economy, and the word 'wage' isn't mentioned once. His healthcare page is all about how he opposed efforts to rollback coverage (great) but also likes to work with Republicans, and not much else. It's all very middle of the road status-quo stuff.

Claire McCaskill's website at least talks about consumer protections and women's well-being. Tester's isn't that great, but he knows how to play locally by including stuff about public lands, and also ties in his commitment to clean ethics with his want to get "dark money out of politics" and overturn Citizens United. They at least seem to be able to make a pitch to the base here and there on progressive issues, to make Democrats want to support them. While Donnelly's strategy seems to amount to 'I'm inoffensive and am not a Republican.'


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on July 30, 2018, 07:37:41 PM
So...where do my fellow Hoosiers think the race likely stands now?


Still think it's as much of a toss-up as any race can be at this point. But *MAYBE* tilting Donnelly. Like 51%-49%.
Joe's been running a very mediocre campaign so far, and it's really pissing me off.  Braun is a fierce attack dog, and Donnelly is still trying to play Mr. Nice Guy.

I just hope that when Donnelly votes for Kavanaugh, the Dem base doesn't stay home.


Donnelly will surely rally Democratic voters by *checks notes* voting for Trump's Supreme Court nominee.

And I'm sure an Ocasio Cortez type figure would have gotten elected in Indiana and also have an actual fighting chance of reelection.

Ideally there would be something between Joe "Hoosier Common Sense" Donnelly and Ocasio Cortez.


Fair point.

I mean, this being Indiana he obviously can't tact that left. But Donnelly just comes off as so... bland.

I don't want to judge him on his campaign website, but if 'common sense' became a platform then this would be it. It's all about bipartisanship and not stepping on any toes. He talks about education, yet can't even include a line about free community college. Talks about jobs and the economy, and the word 'wage' isn't mentioned once. His healthcare page is all about how he opposed efforts to rollback coverage (great) but also likes to work with Republicans, and not much else. It's all very middle of the road stuff status-quo stuff.

Claire McCaskill's website at least talks about consumer protections and women's well-being. Tester's isn't that great, but he knows how to play locally by including stuff about public lands, and also ties in his commitment to clean ethics with his want to get "dark money out of politics" and overturn Citizens United. They at least put something there to stand out from the crowd, to make some appeal to the base, while Donnelly's only play on progressive issues seems to be "you should be glad I'm not a Republican."



Is there really a left wing base in Indiana?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on July 30, 2018, 07:38:13 PM
Besides monroe ofc


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: new_patomic on July 30, 2018, 07:46:36 PM

You've got a good amount of Democrats in Indianapolis (Marion County) and in the northwest of the state in places like Gary. Doesn't stop Democrats from losing Indiana by 10+ points in an average year but they've got more of a floor there than, say, North Dakota or West Virginia.

It's enough at least that ignoring them is risky. He needs a good amount of crossover votes, but also needs strong numbers out of the few Democratic areas of the state.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: TheRocketRaccoon on August 10, 2018, 11:41:45 AM


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: wesmoorenerd on August 10, 2018, 12:10:41 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on August 10, 2018, 12:18:44 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

Oooooh ;) this is helpful...


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on August 10, 2018, 12:24:48 PM


()


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 10, 2018, 03:41:43 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

This won't make a lick of difference. Donnelly's own brother profited from shipping jobs to Mexico and Donnelly owned shares in that same company. Any attack on Braun will be answered with that so it'll have a net neutral impact. Donnelly is still toast and this doesn't change anything.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Calthrina950 on August 10, 2018, 03:43:25 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

This won't make a lick of difference. Donnelly's own brother profited from shipping jobs to Mexico and Donnelly owned shares in that same company. Any attack on Braun will be answered with that so it'll have a net neutral impact. Donnelly is still toast and this doesn't change anything.

Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on August 10, 2018, 03:47:52 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

This won't make a lick of difference. Donnelly's own brother profited from shipping jobs to Mexico and Donnelly owned shares in that same company. Any attack on Braun will be answered with that so it'll have a net neutral impact. Donnelly is still toast and this doesn't change anything.

Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.
there hasnt been any recent polling of the race since the primary, and that poll was done by Gravis. IN and ND have archaic polling laws that make it expensive and worthless, which is why those two states always have terrible polling and terrible results. Heitkamp overpreformed the polls by 7 points, not because she was an excellent candidate, but because the polling in ND was incredibly terrible.

There is currently no way to tell how both races are going, but saying that Donelly is DOA is ridiculous. This information about Braun's company is incredibly useful, and works well to disengage Braun's major attack, the "Mexico Joe" line.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on August 10, 2018, 03:51:11 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

This won't make a lick of difference. Donnelly's own brother profited from shipping jobs to Mexico and Donnelly owned shares in that same company. Any attack on Braun will be answered with that so it'll have a net neutral impact. Donnelly is still toast and this doesn't change anything.

Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.
there hasnt been any recent polling of the race since the primary, and that poll was done by Gravis. IN and ND have archaic polling laws that make it expensive and worthless, which is why those two states always have terrible polling and terrible results. Heitkamp overpreformed the polls by 7 points, not because she was an excellent candidate, but because the polling in ND was incredibly terrible.

There is currently no way to tell how both races are going, but saying that Donelly is DOA is ridiculous. This information about Braun's company is incredibly useful, and works well to disengage Braun's major attack, the "Mexico Joe" line.

Was the GOP really too dumb to say Mexico Josč?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on August 10, 2018, 03:58:39 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

This won't make a lick of difference. Donnelly's own brother profited from shipping jobs to Mexico and Donnelly owned shares in that same company. Any attack on Braun will be answered with that so it'll have a net neutral impact. Donnelly is still toast and this doesn't change anything.

Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.
there hasnt been any recent polling of the race since the primary, and that poll was done by Gravis. IN and ND have archaic polling laws that make it expensive and worthless, which is why those two states always have terrible polling and terrible results. Heitkamp overpreformed the polls by 7 points, not because she was an excellent candidate, but because the polling in ND was incredibly terrible.

There is currently no way to tell how both races are going, but saying that Donelly is DOA is ridiculous. This information about Braun's company is incredibly useful, and works well to disengage Braun's major attack, the "Mexico Joe" line.

Was the GOP really too dumb to say Mexico Josč?
Yep, heres the ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKbycsMb-f8


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on August 10, 2018, 04:09:41 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

This won't make a lick of difference. Donnelly's own brother profited from shipping jobs to Mexico and Donnelly owned shares in that same company. Any attack on Braun will be answered with that so it'll have a net neutral impact. Donnelly is still toast and this doesn't change anything.

Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.
there hasnt been any recent polling of the race since the primary, and that poll was done by Gravis. IN and ND have archaic polling laws that make it expensive and worthless, which is why those two states always have terrible polling and terrible results. Heitkamp overpreformed the polls by 7 points, not because she was an excellent candidate, but because the polling in ND was incredibly terrible.

There is currently no way to tell how both races are going, but saying that Donelly is DOA is ridiculous. This information about Braun's company is incredibly useful, and works well to disengage Braun's major attack, the "Mexico Joe" line.

Was the GOP really too dumb to say Mexico Josč?
Yep, heres the ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKbycsMb-f8

()


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: GM Team Member and Senator WB on August 10, 2018, 04:29:50 PM

owo


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: wesmoorenerd on August 10, 2018, 04:49:17 PM


Ooh, this is the exact kind of thing that could make a massive difference in such a close race. Let's see how the Donnelly campaign plays their cards here. The blatant hypocrisy isn't a good look for Braun and it could seriously make a huge difference if Donnelly were to capitalize on it.

This won't make a lick of difference. Donnelly's own brother profited from shipping jobs to Mexico and Donnelly owned shares in that same company. Any attack on Braun will be answered with that so it'll have a net neutral impact. Donnelly is still toast and this doesn't change anything.

The point isn't that Donnelly can use this line of attack on Braun, it's that Braun can't use it on Donnelly. This completely neutralizes his "Mexico Joe" line of attack and makes him look like a hypocrite for attacking Donnelly on his Mexican outsourcing. And it's been said above but Donnelly is far from toast, he's more like a lightly warmed muffin.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: MycroftCZ on August 10, 2018, 04:55:45 PM


YESSS!!! This really hurts Braun's trustworthy, "Made in America" image.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 10, 2018, 05:11:29 PM
Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.

Apart from my own deep antipathy towards the man? Setting that aside, I think there are several things to bear in mind when assessing the state of this race and they all, to me, add up to a lean R race:

I'll start with the poll that you mentioned. A deficit as an incumbent against a challenger with a lower name recognition is not a strong position to begin with and betrays a low personal brand than similarly situated incumbents in West Virginia, Montana and Ohio.

Which segues perfectly into my next point - Donnelly is ultimately a bland candidate too spineless and cowardly to take a strong stand on issues that his constituents care about. Once again, similarly situated incumbents have taken tough votes and tough stances against the President to secure their own bases before pivoting to convincing moderates. McCaskill loudly took a stand against the ACA repeal, Tester torpedoed Jackson and Donnelly isn't running in R+40 West Virginia. He still needs to hold his own base and he has done an exceedingly poor job thereof.

I won't rehash it, but a few posts back, some of the Indiana avatars were discussing Donnelly's website; it's a bland, cookie cutter bipartisanship relic from the 80's. His campaign is not geared for the cycle in which it is being run.

And if you want demographics, the dude can provide. Marion and Lake provide anywhere between a third and 2/5 of the Democrats' votes statewide in Indiana. Historically, both counties have turnout problems for Democrats in the midterms. Donnelly's squeaker of a victory in 2012 was in no small part to an unusually high number of vote splitters in the highest two Republican vote getting counties - Hamilton (northern suburbs and exurbs of Indianapolis) and Allen (home to Indiana's second largest city, Fort Wayne), coupled with a coattails ballot effect in both Monroe and Lake from Barack Obama (both counties, of course, have more Black voters relative to the rest of Indiana's counties and Obama's presence on the top of the ballot juiced black turnout in both of those counties).

Mourdock's comments cost him thousands of voters in Hamilton and Allen counties - home to Indiana's famed fiscal conservative, social moderate to liberal ™ demographic. These counties voted for Trump in higher numbers than for Mourdock. Braun is literally a former small businessman in the mold very much in line with those voters. And as Donnelly continues to refuse to distance himself from a President who makes those voters squeamish, he will continue to lose their votes to someone more in line with those voters' economic interests, as those voters prioritize their tax cuts. Donnelly received in the low 40s in those two counties, compared to low 30's for Obama in the same year. That makes up fully a third of his margin over Mourdock that he won't be able to rely on in 18, nor will he be able to count on a third party libertarian spoiler siphoning nearly 6% of the vote.

What Donnelly, then, is doing in these counties is failing to give moderate suburbanites ™ a reason to cast a vote against Trump, while also failing to win over the types of rural voters that have seen Republican gains across a number of special elections.

There is, of course, the likelihood that I am hopelessly biased against the man and that he's fine. But these are my reasons for thinking he's more likely to lose than win.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Bidenworth2020 on August 10, 2018, 05:54:20 PM
Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.

Apart from my own deep antipathy towards the man? Setting that aside, I think there are several things to bear in mind when assessing the state of this race and they all, to me, add up to a lean R race:

I'll start with the poll that you mentioned. A deficit as an incumbent against a challenger with a lower name recognition is not a strong position to begin with and betrays a low personal brand than similarly situated incumbents in West Virginia, Montana and Ohio.

Which segues perfectly into my next point - Donnelly is ultimately a bland candidate too spineless and cowardly to take a strong stand on issues that his constituents care about. Once again, similarly situated incumbents have taken tough votes and tough stances against the President to secure their own bases before pivoting to convincing moderates. McCaskill loudly took a stand against the ACA repeal, Tester torpedoed Jackson and Donnelly isn't running in R+40 West Virginia. He still needs to hold his own base and he has done an exceedingly poor job thereof.

I won't rehash it, but a few posts back, some of the Indiana avatars were discussing Donnelly's website; it's a bland, cookie cutter bipartisanship relic from the 80's. His campaign is not geared for the cycle in which it is being run.

And if you want demographics, the dude can provide. Marion and Lake provide anywhere between a third and 2/5 of the Democrats' votes statewide in Indiana. Historically, both counties have turnout problems for Democrats in the midterms. Donnelly's squeaker of a victory in 2012 was in no small part to an unusually high number of vote splitters in the highest two Republican vote getting counties - Hamilton (northern suburbs and exurbs of Indianapolis) and Allen (home to Indiana's second largest city, Fort Wayne), coupled with a coattails ballot effect in both Monroe and Lake from Barack Obama (both counties, of course, have more Black voters relative to the rest of Indiana's counties and Obama's presence on the top of the ballot juiced black turnout in both of those counties).

Mourdock's comments cost him thousands of voters in Hamilton and Allen counties - home to Indiana's famed fiscal conservative, social moderate to liberal ™ demographic. These counties voted for Trump in higher numbers than for Mourdock. Braun is literally a former small businessman in the mold very much in line with those voters. And as Donnelly continues to refuse to distance himself from a President who makes those voters squeamish, he will continue to lose their votes to someone more in line with those voters' economic interests, as those voters prioritize their tax cuts. Donnelly received in the low 40s in those two counties, compared to low 30's for Obama in the same year. That makes up fully a third of his margin over Mourdock that he won't be able to rely on in 18, nor will he be able to count on a third party libertarian spoiler siphoning nearly 6% of the vote.

What Donnelly, then, is doing in these counties is failing to give moderate suburbanites ™ a reason to cast a vote against Trump, while also failing to win over the types of rural voters that have seen Republican gains across a number of special elections.

There is, of course, the likelihood that I am hopelessly biased against the man and that he's fine. But these are my reasons for thinking he's more likely to lose than win.
Why do you hate with such a passion? That would be like me hating a random bland congressman like Thornberry lol.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Calthrina950 on August 10, 2018, 06:03:42 PM
Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.

Apart from my own deep antipathy towards the man? Setting that aside, I think there are several things to bear in mind when assessing the state of this race and they all, to me, add up to a lean R race:

I'll start with the poll that you mentioned. A deficit as an incumbent against a challenger with a lower name recognition is not a strong position to begin with and betrays a low personal brand than similarly situated incumbents in West Virginia, Montana and Ohio.

Which segues perfectly into my next point - Donnelly is ultimately a bland candidate too spineless and cowardly to take a strong stand on issues that his constituents care about. Once again, similarly situated incumbents have taken tough votes and tough stances against the President to secure their own bases before pivoting to convincing moderates. McCaskill loudly took a stand against the ACA repeal, Tester torpedoed Jackson and Donnelly isn't running in R+40 West Virginia. He still needs to hold his own base and he has done an exceedingly poor job thereof.

I won't rehash it, but a few posts back, some of the Indiana avatars were discussing Donnelly's website; it's a bland, cookie cutter bipartisanship relic from the 80's. His campaign is not geared for the cycle in which it is being run.

And if you want demographics, the dude can provide. Marion and Lake provide anywhere between a third and 2/5 of the Democrats' votes statewide in Indiana. Historically, both counties have turnout problems for Democrats in the midterms. Donnelly's squeaker of a victory in 2012 was in no small part to an unusually high number of vote splitters in the highest two Republican vote getting counties - Hamilton (northern suburbs and exurbs of Indianapolis) and Allen (home to Indiana's second largest city, Fort Wayne), coupled with a coattails ballot effect in both Monroe and Lake from Barack Obama (both counties, of course, have more Black voters relative to the rest of Indiana's counties and Obama's presence on the top of the ballot juiced black turnout in both of those counties).

Mourdock's comments cost him thousands of voters in Hamilton and Allen counties - home to Indiana's famed fiscal conservative, social moderate to liberal ™ demographic. These counties voted for Trump in higher numbers than for Mourdock. Braun is literally a former small businessman in the mold very much in line with those voters. And as Donnelly continues to refuse to distance himself from a President who makes those voters squeamish, he will continue to lose their votes to someone more in line with those voters' economic interests, as those voters prioritize their tax cuts. Donnelly received in the low 40s in those two counties, compared to low 30's for Obama in the same year. That makes up fully a third of his margin over Mourdock that he won't be able to rely on in 18, nor will he be able to count on a third party libertarian spoiler siphoning nearly 6% of the vote.

What Donnelly, then, is doing in these counties is failing to give moderate suburbanites ™ a reason to cast a vote against Trump, while also failing to win over the types of rural voters that have seen Republican gains across a number of special elections.

There is, of course, the likelihood that I am hopelessly biased against the man and that he's fine. But these are my reasons for thinking he's more likely to lose than win.

This seems like a reasonable, well thought-out response. I admit that I don't know too much about Indiana's politics, but I've believed, over the past few months, that this is probably the most likely race, of the competitive red-state races, to be won by Republicans this year. Braun does come across as a generic Republican in many respects, but he also has the "outsider" persona, business background, and protectionist cred that endeared so many voters to Trump. And he is definitely a far more formidable challenger to Donnelly then either Rokita or Messer would have been. Donnelly has voted exactly 50-50 with Trump, so he is the definition of a moderate. I think that if he achieved a balance between emphasizing his votes with Trump on "common-sense" issues that benefit Indiana, pointing out his opposition to Trump's egregious comments and to his more unpopular actions, and attacked Braun as "more of the same", then he could pull off a victory. Whether or not he can do so remains to be seen. Indiana is a Republican state at heart, and a Braun victory would not surprise me in the slightest.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 10, 2018, 06:52:00 PM
Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.

Apart from my own deep antipathy towards the man? Setting that aside, I think there are several things to bear in mind when assessing the state of this race and they all, to me, add up to a lean R race:

I'll start with the poll that you mentioned. A deficit as an incumbent against a challenger with a lower name recognition is not a strong position to begin with and betrays a low personal brand than similarly situated incumbents in West Virginia, Montana and Ohio.

Which segues perfectly into my next point - Donnelly is ultimately a bland candidate too spineless and cowardly to take a strong stand on issues that his constituents care about. Once again, similarly situated incumbents have taken tough votes and tough stances against the President to secure their own bases before pivoting to convincing moderates. McCaskill loudly took a stand against the ACA repeal, Tester torpedoed Jackson and Donnelly isn't running in R+40 West Virginia. He still needs to hold his own base and he has done an exceedingly poor job thereof.

I won't rehash it, but a few posts back, some of the Indiana avatars were discussing Donnelly's website; it's a bland, cookie cutter bipartisanship relic from the 80's. His campaign is not geared for the cycle in which it is being run.

And if you want demographics, the dude can provide. Marion and Lake provide anywhere between a third and 2/5 of the Democrats' votes statewide in Indiana. Historically, both counties have turnout problems for Democrats in the midterms. Donnelly's squeaker of a victory in 2012 was in no small part to an unusually high number of vote splitters in the highest two Republican vote getting counties - Hamilton (northern suburbs and exurbs of Indianapolis) and Allen (home to Indiana's second largest city, Fort Wayne), coupled with a coattails ballot effect in both Marion and Lake from Barack Obama (both counties, of course, have more Black voters relative to the rest of Indiana's counties and Obama's presence on the top of the ballot juiced black turnout in both of those counties).

Mourdock's comments cost him thousands of voters in Hamilton and Allen counties - home to Indiana's famed fiscal conservative, social moderate to liberal ™ demographic. These counties voted for Trump in higher numbers than for Mourdock. Braun is literally a former small businessman in the mold very much in line with those voters. And as Donnelly continues to refuse to distance himself from a President who makes those voters squeamish, he will continue to lose their votes to someone more in line with those voters' economic interests, as those voters prioritize their tax cuts. Donnelly received in the low 40s in those two counties, compared to low 30's for Obama in the same year. That makes up fully a third of his margin over Mourdock that he won't be able to rely on in 18, nor will he be able to count on a third party libertarian spoiler siphoning nearly 6% of the vote.

What Donnelly, then, is doing in these counties is failing to give moderate suburbanites ™ a reason to cast a vote against Trump, while also failing to win over the types of rural voters that have seen Republican gains across a number of special elections.

There is, of course, the likelihood that I am hopelessly biased against the man and that he's fine. But these are my reasons for thinking he's more likely to lose than win.

This seems like a reasonable, well thought-out response. I admit that I don't know too much about Indiana's politics, but I've believed, over the past few months, that this is probably the most likely race, of the competitive red-state races, to be won by Republicans this year. Braun does come across as a generic Republican in many respects, but he also has the "outsider" persona, business background, and protectionist cred that endeared so many voters to Trump. And he is definitely a far more formidable challenger to Donnelly then either Rokita or Messer would have been. Donnelly has voted exactly 50-50 with Trump, so he is the definition of a moderate. I think that if he achieved a balance between emphasizing his votes with Trump on "common-sense" issues that benefit Indiana, pointing out his opposition to Trump's egregious comments and to his more unpopular actions, and attacked Braun as "more of the same", then he could pull off a victory. Whether or not he can do so remains to be seen. Indiana is a Republican state at heart, and a Braun victory would not surprise me in the slightest.

Thanks. What concerns me about Donnelly's campaign strategy is that he's taking the heavily Dem leaning votes in Monroe, Lake and Marion counties for granted, while seeming to court Trump's rural base. It's of course an interesting strategy and it's a good data point for the great Democratic burbs v rural strategic direction debate. And if I'm wrong, then that's a good thing for the party strategically to know that it can win back the WWC voters it lost to Trump.

Strategically, I think that the best path is something similar to Jones's coalition in Alabama. Jones ran up the score by cultivating strong ties with Alabama's black population and by courting moderate suburbanites, particularly women, plus strong turnout in Alabama's college towns. Indiana certainly has different demographics from Alabama, in that there are fewer black voters and probably more urban white professionals and more economically conservative / social indifferent voters, but the same strategy could be replicated. It's just that it's not what Donnelly is doing. If it makes any sense, he's trying to do what Sherrod Brown is succeeding with next door in Ohio. Brown's got a strong economic populist brand that resonates well with Trump's WWC base because he's developed that brand methodically for years. Donnelly just doesn't have that brand to rely on and it's showing in his middling performance.

I would certainly be happy to be wrong in that a Donnelly win or loss will be likely to be the deciding vote in the Senate, but I must stress that I do not care for him, a number of his policy positions, or his campaign strategy, so a loss wouldn't be all that saddening to me.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 10, 2018, 06:56:56 PM
Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.

Apart from my own deep antipathy towards the man? Setting that aside, I think there are several things to bear in mind when assessing the state of this race and they all, to me, add up to a lean R race:

I'll start with the poll that you mentioned. A deficit as an incumbent against a challenger with a lower name recognition is not a strong position to begin with and betrays a low personal brand than similarly situated incumbents in West Virginia, Montana and Ohio.

Which segues perfectly into my next point - Donnelly is ultimately a bland candidate too spineless and cowardly to take a strong stand on issues that his constituents care about. Once again, similarly situated incumbents have taken tough votes and tough stances against the President to secure their own bases before pivoting to convincing moderates. McCaskill loudly took a stand against the ACA repeal, Tester torpedoed Jackson and Donnelly isn't running in R+40 West Virginia. He still needs to hold his own base and he has done an exceedingly poor job thereof.

I won't rehash it, but a few posts back, some of the Indiana avatars were discussing Donnelly's website; it's a bland, cookie cutter bipartisanship relic from the 80's. His campaign is not geared for the cycle in which it is being run.

And if you want demographics, the dude can provide. Marion and Lake provide anywhere between a third and 2/5 of the Democrats' votes statewide in Indiana. Historically, both counties have turnout problems for Democrats in the midterms. Donnelly's squeaker of a victory in 2012 was in no small part to an unusually high number of vote splitters in the highest two Republican vote getting counties - Hamilton (northern suburbs and exurbs of Indianapolis) and Allen (home to Indiana's second largest city, Fort Wayne), coupled with a coattails ballot effect in both Monroe and Lake from Barack Obama (both counties, of course, have more Black voters relative to the rest of Indiana's counties and Obama's presence on the top of the ballot juiced black turnout in both of those counties).

Mourdock's comments cost him thousands of voters in Hamilton and Allen counties - home to Indiana's famed fiscal conservative, social moderate to liberal ™ demographic. These counties voted for Trump in higher numbers than for Mourdock. Braun is literally a former small businessman in the mold very much in line with those voters. And as Donnelly continues to refuse to distance himself from a President who makes those voters squeamish, he will continue to lose their votes to someone more in line with those voters' economic interests, as those voters prioritize their tax cuts. Donnelly received in the low 40s in those two counties, compared to low 30's for Obama in the same year. That makes up fully a third of his margin over Mourdock that he won't be able to rely on in 18, nor will he be able to count on a third party libertarian spoiler siphoning nearly 6% of the vote.

What Donnelly, then, is doing in these counties is failing to give moderate suburbanites ™ a reason to cast a vote against Trump, while also failing to win over the types of rural voters that have seen Republican gains across a number of special elections.

There is, of course, the likelihood that I am hopelessly biased against the man and that he's fine. But these are my reasons for thinking he's more likely to lose than win.
Why do you hate with such a passion? That would be like me hating a random bland congressman like Thornberry lol.

He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on August 10, 2018, 08:21:18 PM
Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.

Apart from my own deep antipathy towards the man? Setting that aside, I think there are several things to bear in mind when assessing the state of this race and they all, to me, add up to a lean R race:

I'll start with the poll that you mentioned. A deficit as an incumbent against a challenger with a lower name recognition is not a strong position to begin with and betrays a low personal brand than similarly situated incumbents in West Virginia, Montana and Ohio.

Which segues perfectly into my next point - Donnelly is ultimately a bland candidate too spineless and cowardly to take a strong stand on issues that his constituents care about. Once again, similarly situated incumbents have taken tough votes and tough stances against the President to secure their own bases before pivoting to convincing moderates. McCaskill loudly took a stand against the ACA repeal, Tester torpedoed Jackson and Donnelly isn't running in R+40 West Virginia. He still needs to hold his own base and he has done an exceedingly poor job thereof.

I won't rehash it, but a few posts back, some of the Indiana avatars were discussing Donnelly's website; it's a bland, cookie cutter bipartisanship relic from the 80's. His campaign is not geared for the cycle in which it is being run.

And if you want demographics, the dude can provide. Marion and Lake provide anywhere between a third and 2/5 of the Democrats' votes statewide in Indiana. Historically, both counties have turnout problems for Democrats in the midterms. Donnelly's squeaker of a victory in 2012 was in no small part to an unusually high number of vote splitters in the highest two Republican vote getting counties - Hamilton (northern suburbs and exurbs of Indianapolis) and Allen (home to Indiana's second largest city, Fort Wayne), coupled with a coattails ballot effect in both Monroe and Lake from Barack Obama (both counties, of course, have more Black voters relative to the rest of Indiana's counties and Obama's presence on the top of the ballot juiced black turnout in both of those counties).

Mourdock's comments cost him thousands of voters in Hamilton and Allen counties - home to Indiana's famed fiscal conservative, social moderate to liberal ™ demographic. These counties voted for Trump in higher numbers than for Mourdock. Braun is literally a former small businessman in the mold very much in line with those voters. And as Donnelly continues to refuse to distance himself from a President who makes those voters squeamish, he will continue to lose their votes to someone more in line with those voters' economic interests, as those voters prioritize their tax cuts. Donnelly received in the low 40s in those two counties, compared to low 30's for Obama in the same year. That makes up fully a third of his margin over Mourdock that he won't be able to rely on in 18, nor will he be able to count on a third party libertarian spoiler siphoning nearly 6% of the vote.

What Donnelly, then, is doing in these counties is failing to give moderate suburbanites ™ a reason to cast a vote against Trump, while also failing to win over the types of rural voters that have seen Republican gains across a number of special elections.

There is, of course, the likelihood that I am hopelessly biased against the man and that he's fine. But these are my reasons for thinking he's more likely to lose than win.
Why do you hate with such a passion? That would be like me hating a random bland congressman like Thornberry lol.

Yeah but seriously f**k Mac Thormberry, he knows why.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on August 10, 2018, 08:26:09 PM


I don't think this will matter. It certainly didn't matter for Trump. Hell, his hats are still made in China and being affected by his own tariffs.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Calthrina950 on August 10, 2018, 08:43:27 PM
Have there been any recent polls from Indiana? I haven't seen any posted here since the one immediately after the primary, that showed Braun with a 1 pt. lead. And what leads you to believe that Donnelly is DOA? At best, I thought this race was a tossup.

Apart from my own deep antipathy towards the man? Setting that aside, I think there are several things to bear in mind when assessing the state of this race and they all, to me, add up to a lean R race:

I'll start with the poll that you mentioned. A deficit as an incumbent against a challenger with a lower name recognition is not a strong position to begin with and betrays a low personal brand than similarly situated incumbents in West Virginia, Montana and Ohio.

Which segues perfectly into my next point - Donnelly is ultimately a bland candidate too spineless and cowardly to take a strong stand on issues that his constituents care about. Once again, similarly situated incumbents have taken tough votes and tough stances against the President to secure their own bases before pivoting to convincing moderates. McCaskill loudly took a stand against the ACA repeal, Tester torpedoed Jackson and Donnelly isn't running in R+40 West Virginia. He still needs to hold his own base and he has done an exceedingly poor job thereof.

I won't rehash it, but a few posts back, some of the Indiana avatars were discussing Donnelly's website; it's a bland, cookie cutter bipartisanship relic from the 80's. His campaign is not geared for the cycle in which it is being run.

And if you want demographics, the dude can provide. Marion and Lake provide anywhere between a third and 2/5 of the Democrats' votes statewide in Indiana. Historically, both counties have turnout problems for Democrats in the midterms. Donnelly's squeaker of a victory in 2012 was in no small part to an unusually high number of vote splitters in the highest two Republican vote getting counties - Hamilton (northern suburbs and exurbs of Indianapolis) and Allen (home to Indiana's second largest city, Fort Wayne), coupled with a coattails ballot effect in both Marion and Lake from Barack Obama (both counties, of course, have more Black voters relative to the rest of Indiana's counties and Obama's presence on the top of the ballot juiced black turnout in both of those counties).

Mourdock's comments cost him thousands of voters in Hamilton and Allen counties - home to Indiana's famed fiscal conservative, social moderate to liberal ™ demographic. These counties voted for Trump in higher numbers than for Mourdock. Braun is literally a former small businessman in the mold very much in line with those voters. And as Donnelly continues to refuse to distance himself from a President who makes those voters squeamish, he will continue to lose their votes to someone more in line with those voters' economic interests, as those voters prioritize their tax cuts. Donnelly received in the low 40s in those two counties, compared to low 30's for Obama in the same year. That makes up fully a third of his margin over Mourdock that he won't be able to rely on in 18, nor will he be able to count on a third party libertarian spoiler siphoning nearly 6% of the vote.

What Donnelly, then, is doing in these counties is failing to give moderate suburbanites ™ a reason to cast a vote against Trump, while also failing to win over the types of rural voters that have seen Republican gains across a number of special elections.

There is, of course, the likelihood that I am hopelessly biased against the man and that he's fine. But these are my reasons for thinking he's more likely to lose than win.

This seems like a reasonable, well thought-out response. I admit that I don't know too much about Indiana's politics, but I've believed, over the past few months, that this is probably the most likely race, of the competitive red-state races, to be won by Republicans this year. Braun does come across as a generic Republican in many respects, but he also has the "outsider" persona, business background, and protectionist cred that endeared so many voters to Trump. And he is definitely a far more formidable challenger to Donnelly then either Rokita or Messer would have been. Donnelly has voted exactly 50-50 with Trump, so he is the definition of a moderate. I think that if he achieved a balance between emphasizing his votes with Trump on "common-sense" issues that benefit Indiana, pointing out his opposition to Trump's egregious comments and to his more unpopular actions, and attacked Braun as "more of the same", then he could pull off a victory. Whether or not he can do so remains to be seen. Indiana is a Republican state at heart, and a Braun victory would not surprise me in the slightest.

Thanks. What concerns me about Donnelly's campaign strategy is that he's taking the heavily Dem leaning votes in Monroe, Lake and Marion counties for granted, while seeming to court Trump's rural base. It's of course an interesting strategy and it's a good data point for the great Democratic burbs v rural strategic direction debate. And if I'm wrong, then that's a good thing for the party strategically to know that it can win back the WWC voters it lost to Trump.

Strategically, I think that the best path is something similar to Jones's coalition in Alabama. Jones ran up the score by cultivating strong ties with Alabama's black population and by courting moderate suburbanites, particularly women, plus strong turnout in Alabama's college towns. Indiana certainly has different demographics from Alabama, in that there are fewer black voters and probably more urban white professionals and more economically conservative / social indifferent voters, but the same strategy could be replicated. It's just that it's not what Donnelly is doing. If it makes any sense, he's trying to do what Sherrod Brown is succeeding with next door in Ohio. Brown's got a strong economic populist brand that resonates well with Trump's WWC base because he's developed that brand methodically for years. Donnelly just doesn't have that brand to rely on and it's showing in his middling performance.

I would certainly be happy to be wrong in that a Donnelly win or loss will be likely to be the deciding vote in the Senate, but I must stress that I do not care for him, a number of his policy positions, or his campaign strategy, so a loss wouldn't be all that saddening to me.

I see what you are saying. The socially moderate, fiscally conservative voters that you have described here are exactly the kind of voters who, I imagine, would be turned off by Trump. His rhetoric and his comments would offend them socially, and his imposition of tariffs would be bound to upset them, given that I am sure they are probably in favor of free trade. If these voters were courted in the correct manner, they could be won over. But at the same time, you have midwestern Democrats (i.e. Sherrod Brown) who are populist and who do support more protectionist trade measures. Protectionism does appeal to many rural and working-class voters. How would one reconcile these positions?

Also, what is it about Donnelly in particular that you object to? You said something about civil liberties in one of your other posts, but are there any policy moves that he made which you find to be wrong? I don't know that much about Donnelly's voting record besides the facts that he has voted for most of Trump's nominees (DeVos is the only exception, I believe) and has voted with the Administration 50% of the time.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 10, 2018, 10:36:36 PM
@Calthrina950 - his vote in favor of Haspel. I voted for him in '12 when I still lived in Indiana based on his rhetoric of civil liberties defense and his Haspel vote was a betrayal of the values on which I based my vote. A vote like that is one of the few things I absolutely cannot countenance in a politician.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Calthrina950 on August 10, 2018, 10:56:19 PM
@Calthrina950 - his vote in favor of Haspel. I voted for him in '12 when I still lived in Indiana based on his rhetoric of civil liberties defense and his Haspel vote was a betrayal of the values on which I based my vote. A vote like that is one of the few things I absolutely cannot countenance in a politician.

I perfectly understand. I opposed Haspel as well, because of her role in waterboarding suspects, and she should not have been confirmed. Civil liberties is a very important issue, and should be a bipartisan concern. Donnelly's vote in favor of Haspel, I believe, was probably cast in an effort to try to win over some of those Trump voters that he is courting, but I'm not sure if it will. One thing I like to do is to frequent the comment boards of conservative websites (as I've noted elsewhere), and many of those people think that all Democrats, including people like Donnelly, Manchin, Heitkamp, Tester, Jones, and McCaskill, are evil, baby-killing, America-hating communists.

People of that mindset comprise a large portion of the electorate in those states, so any vote in favor of a Trump nominee or law is considered by them to be pandering. They would still rather have an actual Republican who votes with Trump 95% of the time then a moderate Democrat who votes with him 40, 50, or 60% of the time. Donnelly's vote against Haspel probably also hurt him with these socially moderate voters, while doing little to win over Trump types. And it could very well hamper his efforts at reelection.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on August 11, 2018, 05:31:41 AM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.

Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: President Punxsutawney Phil on August 11, 2018, 05:32:29 AM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.

Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 11, 2018, 08:18:08 AM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.

Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.

Yeah. I also think Donnelly is a spineless moron, but the comparison is ridiculous.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on August 11, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.

Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.

The level of whataboutism and excessive hyperbole that some of these green avatars go to sometimes to justify their “centrism/#bothsides” schtick is absurd

He has a Barbara Lee sig which seems to suggest he's a true leftist and not a centrist, which makes support for Rand Paul over Donnelly even more hilarious.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: #gravelgang #lessiglad on August 11, 2018, 11:29:26 AM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.

Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.

The level of whataboutism and excessive hyperbole that some of these green avatars go to sometimes to justify their “centrism/#bothsides” schtick is absurd

He has a Barbara Lee sig which seems to suggest he's a true leftist and not a centrist, which makes support for Rand Paul over Donnelly even more hilarious.

Not a leftist. Pacifist. There are a small number of Republicans, Paul included, who are better on matters of war and peace and/or civil liberties than Democrats. Paul is a useless coward on a number of domestic issues, but he's at least consistent on non-interventionism and broadly on civil liberties. Donnelly is worse on those issues and, therefore, a worse representation of my viewpoints.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: new_patomic on August 12, 2018, 01:18:40 PM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.

Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.

Rand Paul is a '''''libertarian'''''

He loves to tease a no vote here and there but sticks entirely to the Republican line.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: GeorgiaModerate on August 12, 2018, 01:30:26 PM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.
]
Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.
 (http://Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.
[/quote)
[/url]
Rand Paul is a '''''libertarian'''''

He loves to tease a no vote here and there but sticks entirely to the Republican line.

Per 538's scorecard (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/), Paul has voted with Trump 74.0% of the time, which is the lowest percentage of any Republican Senator (Collins is second at 78.9%), but higher than any Democrat (Manchin is the highest at 60.5%; Donnelly is third at 54.7%).


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: new_patomic on August 12, 2018, 01:33:48 PM
He enables war criminals and is complicit in the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties. I would rather have Rand Paul representing me than authoritarian, war mongering trash like Donnelly.
]
Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.
 (http://Are people here still pretending Rand Paul is some kind of maverick? I must have teleported 4 years back in time.
[/quote)
[/url]
Rand Paul is a '''''libertarian'''''

He loves to tease a no vote here and there but sticks entirely to the Republican line.

Per 538's scorecard (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/), Paul has voted with Trump 74.0% of the time, which is the lowest percentage of any Republican Senator (Collins is second at 78.9%), but higher than any Democrat (Manchin is the highest at 60.5%; Donnelly is third at 54.7%).
He'll vote against appropriations bills because deficit and make the occasional stand on spying. Big woop.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Hindsight was 2020 on August 13, 2018, 08:33:12 AM
Well it’s kind of a poll but Politico has an article on the race and both sides internals have that race “essentially tied”. So nothing seems to have changed from Braun +1 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/13/joe-donnelly-indiana-senate-midterms-2018-772506


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on August 13, 2018, 08:50:36 AM
Well it’s kind of a poll but Politico has an article on the race and both sides internals have that race “essentially tied”. So nothing seems to have changed from Brain +1 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/13/joe-donnelly-indiana-senate-midterms-2018-772506
well, I guess thats something, but if the race is tied at this moment in the cycle, then Donelly is favored to win reelection.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on August 13, 2018, 08:55:17 AM
Well it’s kind of a poll but Politico has an article on the race and both sides internals have that race “essentially tied”. So nothing seems to have changed from Brain +1 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/13/joe-donnelly-indiana-senate-midterms-2018-772506

So it’s gone from Tossup to Tossup!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: windjammer on August 13, 2018, 09:20:22 AM
Well it’s kind of a poll but Politico has an article on the race and both sides internals have that race “essentially tied”. So nothing seems to have changed from Brain +1 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/13/joe-donnelly-indiana-senate-midterms-2018-772506

So it’s gone from Tossup to Tossup!
I mean,
The idea that Donnelly is a generic dem politician is a myth. And he has been underestimated many times.

It's a toss up but he's definitely not an underdog.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on August 13, 2018, 11:40:33 AM
Well it’s kind of a poll but Politico has an article on the race and both sides internals have that race “essentially tied”. So nothing seems to have changed from Braun +1 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/13/joe-donnelly-indiana-senate-midterms-2018-772506

That's reassuring actually.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: aaroncd107 on August 15, 2018, 04:56:16 PM
just gonna drop this here...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1odR1vw2PmB2oArwqKL0dl1cJrEGB0tiE (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1odR1vw2PmB2oArwqKL0dl1cJrEGB0tiE)
Donnelly +12? My first thought was: “YES,” but this can’t be true, can it? Already with a majority?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: libertpaulian on August 15, 2018, 05:00:34 PM
just gonna drop this here...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1odR1vw2PmB2oArwqKL0dl1cJrEGB0tiE (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1odR1vw2PmB2oArwqKL0dl1cJrEGB0tiE)
Donnelly +12? My first thought was: “YES,” but this can’t be true, can it? Already with a majority?
Flawed poll.  Check the crosstabs.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on August 15, 2018, 05:20:33 PM
The poll with Joe+12 is a datapoint, but we shouldnt take it seriously. There are soooo many problems with it.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on August 15, 2018, 05:22:31 PM
Well it’s kind of a poll but Politico has an article on the race and both sides internals have that race “essentially tied”. So nothing seems to have changed from Brain +1 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/13/joe-donnelly-indiana-senate-midterms-2018-772506

So it’s gone from Tossup to Tossup!
I mean,
The idea that Donnelly is a generic dem politician is a myth. And he has been underestimated many times.

It's a toss up but he's definitely not an underdog.

I didn’t say he was. He’s a good politician in a tough state. I think it’s a Tossup.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Sherrod Brown Shill on August 16, 2018, 03:35:35 PM
Ok, an R internal with Donnelly+12? This is obviously flawed but what is the reasoning behind this? Is this a "Look how far behind we are guys! Give us money to take down Mexico Joe!" poll?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Atlas Force on August 16, 2018, 04:21:19 PM
Well it’s kind of a poll but Politico has an article on the race and both sides internals have that race “essentially tied”. So nothing seems to have changed from Braun +1 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/13/joe-donnelly-indiana-senate-midterms-2018-772506

That's reassuring actually.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: LimoLiberal on August 16, 2018, 04:24:35 PM
Wow. Check out Mexico Joe's latest ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=VmD8fYF4Rzg

It's clear he's down bigly to Mike Braun if he's putting up overtly pro-Trump ads.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Bidenworth2020 on August 16, 2018, 04:27:07 PM
Wow. Check out Mexico Joe's latest ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=VmD8fYF4Rzg

It's clear he's down bigly to Mike Braun if he's putting up overtly pro-Trump ads.
lmao


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on August 16, 2018, 04:35:12 PM
Wow. Check out Mexico Joe's latest ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=VmD8fYF4Rzg

It's clear he's down bigly to Mike Braun if he's putting up overtly pro-Trump ads.

Cringe, Manchin has done something similar too, oh well, they have free pass cards to do anything to win, so do what's necessary ma bois.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: SnowLabrador on August 19, 2018, 08:31:40 PM
I think Mike Braun was Joe Donnelly's worst-case scenario. His "outsider businessman" persona seems to be very popular among Republican voters lately, and he has a lot of money to spend.

In addition, state AG Curtis Hill is trying to cancel those new early voting sites from opening in Marion County. If he is successful, that only hurts Donnelly's chances.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on August 19, 2018, 08:35:33 PM
I think Mike Braun was Joe Donnelly's worst-case scenario. His "outsider businessman" persona seems to be very popular among Republican voters lately, and he has a lot of money to spend.

In addition, state AG Curtis Hill is trying to cancel those new early voting sites from opening in Marion County. If he is successful, that only hurts Donnelly's chances.
there is a downside to Braun, however, and that is his own strength. He is an unknown, a candidate nobody knows in the state. He has to spend a lot to boost his name rec. And to top that off, he is an unvetted candidate. With the other two, you knew what problems they had, but Braun, its all unknown. Its already been found out that he shipped jobs oversees to China, and there could be much more.

Braun will either flame out, or win


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on August 19, 2018, 09:00:24 PM
Wow. Check out Mexico Joe's latest ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=VmD8fYF4Rzg

It's clear he's down bigly to Mike Braun if he's putting up overtly pro-Trump ads.

Cringe, Manchin has done something similar too, oh well, they have free pass cards to do anything to win, so do what's necessary ma bois.

What a poorly done ad. The part in the middle where Donnelly flimsily talks into the camera from driving the RV is just LOL

You can tell that was filmed in Indiana too because he kept hitting potholes every couple of seconds


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: SnowLabrador on August 20, 2018, 09:13:37 AM
The race is going to be very close. Gun to my head, Braun wins.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on August 20, 2018, 01:18:54 PM
Wow. Check out Mexico Joe's latest ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=VmD8fYF4Rzg

It's clear he's down bigly to Mike Braun if he's putting up overtly pro-Trump ads.

Cringe, Manchin has done something similar too, oh well, they have free pass cards to do anything to win, so do what's necessary ma bois.

What a poorly done ad. The part in the middle where Donnelly flimsily talks into the camera from driving the RV is just LOL

You can tell that was filmed in Indiana too because he kept hitting potholes every couple of seconds

LOL


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Hoosier_Nick on August 20, 2018, 08:48:19 PM
Wow. Check out Mexico Joe's latest ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=VmD8fYF4Rzg

It's clear he's down bigly to Mike Braun if he's putting up overtly pro-Trump ads.

Cringe, Manchin has done something similar too, oh well, they have free pass cards to do anything to win, so do what's necessary ma bois.

What a poorly done ad. The part in the middle where Donnelly flimsily talks into the camera from driving the RV is just LOL

You can tell that was filmed in Indiana too because he kept hitting potholes every couple of seconds

LOL


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: brucejoel99 on August 20, 2018, 08:55:06 PM
The race is going to be very close. Gun to my head, Braun Donnelly wins.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: SnowLabrador on September 05, 2018, 01:06:09 PM
New poll coming at 5 PM!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Politician on September 05, 2018, 01:07:13 PM
Prediction: Donnelly +3, and the resident concern trolls lecture us about how it's a single poll and Bayh didn't win in 2016 and Indiana is Titanium R.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on September 05, 2018, 01:36:43 PM
Regardless of the result, this will be the first real high-quality poll of the race post-primary.  I don't even remember if we had a high-quality poll pre-primary; but knowing Indiana's polling laws probably not.  Whatever we get will probably be our first real indication of where the race stands.

Personal opinion, but if Donnelly is behind by any more than two points then I don't see how he'd make up the deficit by election day as an incumbent.

We never got a decent poll for this race. In fact, we've only gotten 3 polls total throughout all of 2017 and 2018. Gravis, SurveyMonkey, and Trafalgar. lol


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: SnowLabrador on September 05, 2018, 01:42:35 PM
Prediction: Braun +3.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: MycroftCZ on September 05, 2018, 01:52:46 PM
I’m thinking Donnelly +2


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on September 05, 2018, 01:56:08 PM
Im going to be bold....and not announce an answer so I dont look stupid.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: GeorgiaModerate on September 05, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
Im going to be bold....and not announce an answer so I dont look stupid.

This is the biggest outlier yet. :)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: windjammer on September 05, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
Finally we will have some polls, it's not from a garbage company right?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on September 05, 2018, 02:25:48 PM
Finally we will have some polls, it's not from a garbage company right?
quite the opposite, its Marist, A pollster


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Xing on September 05, 2018, 03:26:34 PM
Watch it end up being another tie, since we've been getting a lot of those recently.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: libertpaulian on September 05, 2018, 04:07:33 PM
JOE +6!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: junior chįmp on September 05, 2018, 04:15:02 PM

Looks like the RV ad worked


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Xing on September 05, 2018, 04:44:28 PM
inb4 "Braun is a recruitment fail/the worst Republican challenger of the cycle"


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Zaybay on September 05, 2018, 04:51:43 PM
guessing your celebrating about this poll, huh?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Wisconsin SC Race 2019 on September 05, 2018, 05:04:55 PM
Reminder that the margin narrows as the Libertarian (who will surely get votes) is put into the equation. This is by no means over. Senator Evan Bayh would like to say hi.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: new_patomic on September 05, 2018, 05:07:03 PM
The poll seems to show Donnelly getting what he needs, and from where he needs it. Doing well in Marion and the Northwest and keeping his losses down in small towns and other places. Pleasantly surprised.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: KingSweden on September 05, 2018, 05:10:16 PM
inb4 "Braun is a recruitment fail/the worst Republican challenger of the cycle"

He’s not. He was clearly better than the hacks he beat... but by beating those hacks people overrated his strength a little, I think


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on September 05, 2018, 05:13:37 PM
inb4 "Braun is a recruitment fail/the worst Republican challenger of the cycle"

He’s not. He was clearly better than the hacks he beat... but by beating those hacks people overrated his strength a little, I think

I wonder what this poll would've shown if Donnelly was up against Rokita. The GOP might have started considering triage, lol.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: wesmoorenerd on September 05, 2018, 05:13:49 PM
Comparing Donnelly to Bayh completely ignores the reason why Bayh lost. Bayh lost because:

A) Indiana swung hard for Trump
B) he was imploding because of his lobbying and the fact that he had just moved back to Indiana

Donnelly has neither of these problems. Based on the GCB and Trump's approval in the state, Indiana's 2016 Trumpslide was something of an anomaly. In addition, Donnelly has none of Bayh's personal problems. He's a sitting Senator, not a retread.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: libertpaulian on September 05, 2018, 05:15:52 PM
Reminder that the margin narrows as the Libertarian (who will surely get votes) is put into the equation. This is by no means over. Senator Evan Bayh would like to say hi.
The difference is that Bayh started out in the polls as the victor but ended up as the underdog closer to the end.

Here, Donnelly started out as the underdog but seems to be climbing back up.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: MycroftCZ on September 05, 2018, 05:16:46 PM
DONNELLY BY 6!!

YESSSSSSSSSS


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: new_patomic on September 05, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Comparing Donnelly to Bayh completely ignores the reason why Bayh lost. Bayh lost because:

A) Indiana swung hard for Trump
B) he was imploding because of his lobbying and the fact that he had just moved back to Indiana

Donnelly has neither of these problems. Based on the GCB and Trump's approval in the state, Indiana's 2016 Trumpslide was something of an anomaly. In addition, Donnelly has none of Bayh's personal problems. He's a sitting Senator, not a retread.
It didn't help that Bayh was the non-incumbent Senator who wasn't even running until that July.



Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on September 05, 2018, 06:34:45 PM
()


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Atlas Force on September 05, 2018, 08:50:22 PM
So easily defeating two people who spent the entire primary tearing each other down wasn’t really a sign of political strength after all, huh?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: libertpaulian on September 05, 2018, 09:02:16 PM
I guess the INGOP was so scared sh**tless after the Mourdock fiasco that they decided to go from being too brash and flamboyant to being too uninspiring and boring.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Calthrina950 on September 05, 2018, 09:49:00 PM
I guess the INGOP was so scared sh**tless after the Mourdock fiasco that they decided to go from being too brash and flamboyant to being too uninspiring and boring.


It surprises me (in a pleasant way) that Donnelly is leading by such a margin in this latest poll. He could very well end up winning with a percentage similar to that of 2012. If this poll is anywhere near the truth, then he is in a better position than either Heitkamp or Nelson at this point, and possibly McCaskill as well. Tester and Manchin are the two safest Romney-state Democrats still, though.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on September 05, 2018, 11:23:03 PM
Lmao



Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Fmr. Gov. NickG on September 05, 2018, 11:42:54 PM
Why do the Libertarians often do so well in Indiana? I scoffed at the Lib candidate getting 8% in this poll. But I noticed they've gotten over 5% in each of the last three IN Senate races.  So it's not totally implausible.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: IceSpear on September 05, 2018, 11:54:59 PM
Why do the Libertarians often do so well in Indiana? I scoffed at the Lib candidate getting 8% in this poll. But I noticed they've gotten over 5% in each of the last three IN Senate races.  So it's not totally implausible.

This is a good question. Indiana isn't exactly a state you'd expect to be libertarian friendly, but they consistently do oddly well in the Senate races there. It also seems confined to the Senate races for some reason, they usually get a much lower number in the gubernatorial races.

Maybe our resident Indiana libertarian can answer this? :P


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Dr. Arch on September 06, 2018, 01:18:30 AM
Lmao



Savage


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: libertpaulian on September 06, 2018, 11:02:11 AM
Why do the Libertarians often do so well in Indiana? I scoffed at the Lib candidate getting 8% in this poll. But I noticed they've gotten over 5% in each of the last three IN Senate races.  So it's not totally implausible.

This is a good question. Indiana isn't exactly a state you'd expect to be libertarian friendly, but they consistently do oddly well in the Senate races there. It also seems confined to the Senate races for some reason, they usually get a much lower number in the gubernatorial races.

Maybe our resident Indiana libertarian can answer this? :P
The Indiana Libertarian Party has a very strong presence on social media, and they tend to do very well with outreach given their limited funds as a third party.  The candidates they run don't tend to be the pot-smoking anarchist types who make videos in their underwear talking about how seatbelt laws are equivalent to Hitler or Jim Crow.  I mean, you have SOME like that, but IN libertarians for the most part tend to articulate the Party's message very well.  The INLP candidate for Secretary of State, for example, is a casual friend of mine.  He's a retired attorney from a mid-sized Downtown Indianapolis law firm.  Very far removed from the libertarian stereotype.



Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on September 06, 2018, 08:16:32 PM
So easily defeating two people who spent the entire primary tearing each other down wasn’t really a sign of political strength after all, huh?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Hoosier Hoopla
Post by: Lognog on September 10, 2018, 12:43:37 PM
So easily defeating two people who spent the entire primary tearing each other down wasn’t really a sign of political strength after all, huh?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Frozen Sky Ever Why on September 11, 2018, 04:39:44 PM
I was shocked seeing the Donnelly ad touting him helping Trump build the wall. I mean, I understand IN is a conservative state and he'll need a lot of Trump supporters, so touting his support for tougher border security and whatnot makes sense. But it's likely to be a close race and he'll need the support of IN's liberals and minorities, however small that community is. Seems risky to be proudly associating himself with what has become a symbol of Trump's racism to so many on the left.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: TheRocketRaccoon on September 19, 2018, 07:53:14 AM
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gop-frets-about-prospects-for-picking-up-indiana-senate-seat

HIGH QUALITY CANDIDATE MIKE BRAUN


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Blair on September 19, 2018, 08:26:17 AM
I thought that Donnelly would be the most threatened D incumbent back in the summer- but as the article points out both the Kock Network, and the Chamber of Commerce haven't invested in this race (both groups put millions in IN-SEN '16)

Braun's two best assets were his outside experience, and his ability to self-fund. Yet he hasn't spend any money, so he can't really boost about the first.

 


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: windjammer on September 19, 2018, 08:32:08 AM
I mean, Donnelly is a good candidate. He was tied in the polls before the mourdock gaffe after all. He was lucky when he made this rape comment but Donnelly is definitely a good candidate, he fits well this state. A state where Trump isn't particularly popular.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: junior chįmp on September 19, 2018, 09:48:29 PM
Braun BTFO



()


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Canis on September 26, 2018, 12:43:29 AM
Richard Lugar is refusing to endorse in this race calls both candidates able and having good campaigns
https://fox59.com/2018/09/25/former-sen-richard-lugar-wont-endorse-braun-or-donnelly-in-u-s-senate-race/


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Xing on September 26, 2018, 01:31:52 AM
Richard Lugar is refusing to endorse in this race calls both candidates able and having good campaigns
https://fox59.com/2018/09/25/former-sen-richard-lugar-wont-endorse-braun-or-donnelly-in-u-s-senate-race/

Dang, didn't he endorse Mourdock in 2012?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on September 28, 2018, 10:47:13 AM
Donnelly is a NAY on Kavanaugh.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on September 28, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
Yikes, this gives Braun an opening. Conservatives love their rapists. Dems just get them kicked out of the Senate.
Senator Richard Mourdock says hi.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: ON Progressive on September 28, 2018, 10:59:28 AM
Nobody actually changes their vote solely because of a Supreme Court confirmation vote. Most Americans can't even name a single SCOTUS judge after all.

The only people who care about SCOTUS picks are those very plugged in, and the very plugged in tend to be very partisan.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Doimper on September 28, 2018, 11:01:50 AM
Nobody actually changes their vote solely because of a Supreme Court confirmation vote. Most Americans can't even name a single SCOTUS judge after all.

The only people who care about SCOTUS picks are those very plugged in, and the very plugged in tend to be very partisan.

Probably true - but Kavanaugh's confirmation has been percolating outside the usual sphere of political junkies, for obvious reasons.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Zaybay on September 28, 2018, 11:02:10 AM
For those who think that voting Nay will screw over Donnelly, I refer to the polling done by Pew Research that shows that Ds care more about the nomination, and the Trafalgar poll, which, while poor, does show that Donnelly preforms better when he votes Nay. And this was done BEFORE the Sexual Allegations.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: ON Progressive on September 28, 2018, 11:03:31 AM
Nobody actually changes their vote solely because of a Supreme Court confirmation vote. Most Americans can't even name a single SCOTUS judge after all.

The only people who care about SCOTUS picks are those very plugged in, and the very plugged in tend to be very partisan.

Probably true - but Kavanaugh's confirmation has been percolating outside the usual sphere of political junkies, for obvious reasons.

Yeah, and it's not exactly something that is benefiting Republicans given that he is the least popular Supreme Court nominee in history. In fact, I'm pretty sure Kavanaugh is the only SCOTUS nominee to ever have negative net favorability.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Young Conservative on September 28, 2018, 11:05:44 AM
The Donelly vote could drive some GOP voters to the polls. This definitely doesn't help him. While the hurt will be minimal, minimal matters in a tossup race.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on September 28, 2018, 11:06:55 AM
The Donelly vote could drive some GOP voters to the polls. This definitely doesn't help him. While the hurt will be minimal, minimal matters in a tossup race.
It will also light up the suburban women and minorities who might have been agnostic about Donnelly or even voting in the mid-term at all.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Gass3268 on September 28, 2018, 11:07:46 AM
If Kavanaugh is confirmed, with it looks like he will, we will be on to another crazy news story topic by the time the midterms come around and everyone (especially Republicans who may be upset now) will have forgotten about this by then.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Wisconsin SC Race 2019 on September 28, 2018, 11:09:05 AM
The Donelly vote could drive some GOP voters to the polls. This definitely doesn't help him. While the hurt will be minimal, minimal matters in a tossup race.
Judging by the Blue Avatars here, I find that to be the case.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: UWS on September 28, 2018, 11:09:41 AM
The Donelly vote could drive some GOP voters to the polls. This definitely doesn't help him. While the hurt will be minimal, minimal matters in a tossup race.

So has Donnelly already confirmed that he will vote against Kavanaugh?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: ON Progressive on September 28, 2018, 11:12:23 AM
If Kavanaugh is confirmed, with it looks like he will, we will be on to another crazy news story topic by the time the midterms come around and everyone (especially Republicans who may be upset now) will have forgotten about this by then.

Even if he isn't, everyone will forget about it because American voters have incredibly short memories and Trump would likely just nominate someone else with less controversy.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on September 28, 2018, 11:12:45 AM
The Donelly vote could drive some GOP voters to the polls. This definitely doesn't help him. While the hurt will be minimal, minimal matters in a tossup race.

So has Donnelly already confirmed that he will vote against Kavanaugh?
He said he's a NAY until there's further FBI investigations into the allegations.  He said based on what's going on now, he couldn't vote for him.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Wisconsin SC Race 2019 on September 28, 2018, 11:20:24 AM
I think this a good vote from Donnelly's point of view.  He isn't going to forget that the constituency/voting bloc that put him into power was voters who were uncomfortable with Murdock's comment on rape.  Those voters, even if plenty of them are leaning Republican, will be comfortable with Donnelly's statement regarding sexual assault.  They put partisanship aside and voted for a Democrat in the face of rape comments; that same Democrat then went on and said that we shouldn't confirm someone to the court who has sexual assault allegations against them.

So yeah, if anything this gives lean Republicans who voted for Donnelly a "I made the right choice" moment and gives them more comfort in voting for Donnelly a second time if they were considering drifting back into their natural Republican column.
Yeah, the same people that voted for DJT after Access Hollywood. Things have changed since 2012, and we need to accept the new reality.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: 2016 on September 28, 2018, 11:29:31 AM
Nelson & Donnelly as far as we know will vote NO.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on September 28, 2018, 11:39:33 AM
Tilt D—-> Tilt R.

()


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: UWS on September 28, 2018, 11:47:21 AM
Nelson & Donnelly as far as we know will vote NO.

And Tester too.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/montana-sen-jon-tester-will-vote-against-kavanaugh-confirmation/article_fc3364f3-001b-5b3d-a56d-2e2894b3f409.html


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: ON Progressive on September 28, 2018, 11:48:22 AM
Nelson & Donnelly as far as we know will vote NO.

And Tester too.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/montana-sen-jon-tester-will-vote-against-kavanaugh-confirmation/article_fc3364f3-001b-5b3d-a56d-2e2894b3f409.html

That's not surprising. Tester is the most liberal of the red state Democrats. Also, did anyone seriously think anyone who voted against Gorscuh was going to vote for Kavanaugh?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MT Treasurer on September 28, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
Nelson & Donnelly as far as we know will vote NO.

And Tester too.

https://billingsgazette.com/news/government-and-politics/montana-sen-jon-tester-will-vote-against-kavanaugh-confirmation/article_fc3364f3-001b-5b3d-a56d-2e2894b3f409.html

Tester was always going to vote NO, even before the allegations, lol.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Xing on September 28, 2018, 11:52:11 AM
Donnelly's decision probably isn't going to change any votes. Tilt D -> Tilt D.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MT Treasurer on September 28, 2018, 11:57:39 AM
Donnelly's decision probably isn't going to change any votes. Tilt D -> Tilt D.

Maybe not, but it’s all about base turnout.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Zaybay on September 28, 2018, 12:04:45 PM
Donnelly's decision probably isn't going to change any votes. Tilt D -> Tilt D.

Maybe not, but it’s all about base turnout.
You are right, MT, Joe has secured D turnout and has even won a couple R moderates over.

tossup -> Lean D (no tilts!)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: 2016 on September 28, 2018, 12:09:26 PM
Donnelly's decision probably isn't going to change any votes. Tilt D -> Tilt D.

Maybe not, but it’s all about base turnout.
You are right, MT, Joe has secured D turnout and has even won a couple R moderates over.

tossup -> Lean D (no tilts!)

Absolutely wrong. The Kavernaugh Vote at least what Republicans are concerned is all about the BASE. Republicans lacking intensity & enthusiasm all year long so the Senate is giving something to cheer for especially Trump Voters.
Kavernaugh getting through will IMO most likely safe the Senate for the GOP.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Zaybay on September 28, 2018, 12:13:41 PM
Donnelly's decision probably isn't going to change any votes. Tilt D -> Tilt D.

Maybe not, but it’s all about base turnout.
You are right, MT, Joe has secured D turnout and has even won a couple R moderates over.

tossup -> Lean D (no tilts!)

Absolutely wrong. The Kavernaugh Vote at least what Republicans are concerned is all about the BASE. Republicans lacking intensity & enthusiasm all year long so the Senate is giving something to cheer for especially Trump Voters.
Kavernaugh getting through will IMO most likely safe the Senate for the GOP.

http://www.people-press.org/2018/09/26/voter-enthusiasm-at-record-high-in-nationalized-midterm-environment/

The Republican Party is already at maximum enthusiasm, there is little to do to get more backers. As was mentioned, Donnelly voted for the same base that put him in, a coalition of strong Ds and R suburbanites. This was a rather smart move by Donnelly.

And, as I have mentioned before, we have polling showing Donnelly doing worse if he voted FOR K.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Xing on September 28, 2018, 12:23:21 PM
Donnelly's decision probably isn't going to change any votes. Tilt D -> Tilt D.

Maybe not, but it’s all about base turnout.

And that works both ways, which is why I don't think it changes this race.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: DaWN on September 28, 2018, 01:33:37 PM
Let's not forget Indiana is a state where the Dem base is important, and not giving them any reason at all to stay home is a good idea for Donnelly. Tossup -> Tossup.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: McGovernForPrez on September 28, 2018, 01:51:44 PM
People acting like this vote matters at all. Anybody who cares that strongly about Kavernaugh's nomination is already gonna be turning out and voting for the Republican. The only people who care about this issue are strong partisans and maybe some moderate/educated women.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on September 28, 2018, 05:45:57 PM
Write in Stutzman


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on September 28, 2018, 05:53:04 PM
Write-in votes aren't allowed here.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MT Treasurer on September 28, 2018, 05:53:12 PM

Joe Donnelly approves of this message.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: CookieDamage on September 28, 2018, 06:31:41 PM
People acting like this vote matters at all. Anybody who cares that strongly about Kavernaugh's nomination is already gonna be turning out and voting for the Republican. The only people who care about this issue are strong partisans and maybe some moderate/educated women.

Yeah that's why Kavanaugh's numbers are slipping. Because we know only women care about sexual assault.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on September 28, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

I know. I’m a Hoosier too. The L-NC is still up because I’m thinking of my friends down there who have been dealing with the aftermath of Florence. I still would rather have Stutzman than Braun or Silent Joe hence my expression.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on September 28, 2018, 06:53:29 PM

I know. I’m a Hoosier too. The L-NC is still up because I’m thinking of my friends down there who have been dealing with the aftermath of Florence. I still would rather have Stutzman than Braun or Silent Joe hence my expression.
I'm voting for Joe solely due to dissatisfaction with Trump, not to mention Boring Braun hasn't given me a reason to vote for him.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on September 28, 2018, 09:43:26 PM

I know. I’m a Hoosier too. The L-NC is still up because I’m thinking of my friends down there who have been dealing with the aftermath of Florence. I still would rather have Stutzman than Braun or Silent Joe hence my expression.
I'm voting for Joe solely due to dissatisfaction with Trump, not to mention Boring Braun hasn't given me a reason to vote for him.


Why not the libertarian? I can’t vote Donnelly on principle.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on September 28, 2018, 11:51:25 PM

I know. I’m a Hoosier too. The L-NC is still up because I’m thinking of my friends down there who have been dealing with the aftermath of Florence. I still would rather have Stutzman than Braun or Silent Joe hence my expression.
I'm voting for Joe solely due to dissatisfaction with Trump, not to mention Boring Braun hasn't given me a reason to vote for him.


Why not the libertarian? I can’t vote Donnelly on principle.
I love Lucy (pardon the pun, lol), but Trump is too out of control and needs to be held accountable.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: wesmoorenerd on September 29, 2018, 01:36:17 AM
Let's not forget Indiana is a state where the Dem base is important, and not giving them any reason at all to stay home is a good idea for Donnelly. Tossup -> Tossup.

This is a great point. Indiana is not North Dakota or West Virginia, there's a sizable Dem base in the state (Indianapolis, Gary, and South Bend proper) that Donnelly needs to get high turnout from if he wants to win. Donnelly needs all the crossover support he can get, and he needs to do that to win, but without the base he's pretty much DOA.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Blair on September 29, 2018, 02:43:15 AM
1.) Unless you have data specific to Indiana that it will cost Donnelly more votes than it gains you’re just screwing unsubstantiated crap.

2.) National fundraising matters- this keeps a lot of money flowing into his campaign.

3.) Senators should vote their gut- there’s no point being in politics if you’re never going to do anything you actually believe in.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: wbrocks67 on September 29, 2018, 08:32:53 AM

I know. I’m a Hoosier too. The L-NC is still up because I’m thinking of my friends down there who have been dealing with the aftermath of Florence. I still would rather have Stutzman than Braun or Silent Joe hence my expression.
I'm voting for Joe solely due to dissatisfaction with Trump, not to mention Boring Braun hasn't given me a reason to vote for him.


Why not the libertarian? I can’t vote Donnelly on principle.

Please reconsider. Trump is so out of control at this point that he needs to be checked. Donnelly is a crucial Senate vote.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: KingSweden on September 29, 2018, 09:29:31 AM

I know. I’m a Hoosier too. The L-NC is still up because I’m thinking of my friends down there who have been dealing with the aftermath of Florence. I still would rather have Stutzman than Braun or Silent Joe hence my expression.
I'm voting for Joe solely due to dissatisfaction with Trump, not to mention Boring Braun hasn't given me a reason to vote for him.


Sound reasoning


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: kriksB on October 01, 2018, 01:46:16 PM
Was starting to lose faith in Donelly being an actual Democrat until he said no on Kavanaugh


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Virginiá on October 04, 2018, 12:59:39 PM
Sweetheart Loans and Creative Accounting Behind Debt-Fueled GOP Senate Campaign

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sweetheart-loans-and-creative-accounting-behind-debt-fueled-gop-senate-campaign

Quote
Indiana Republican Mike Braun is running his U.S. Senate campaign on borrowed funds. More than three of every four dollars in his war chest was loaned to the campaign, and the bulk of it has come from banks with executives who are Braun’s friends, professional acquaintances, or campaign donors.

At the same time, Braun has used a legal but controversial accounting maneuver to circumvent donation limits by re-routing nearly $100,000 in money earmarked for a prior election through funds that he himself has lent to the campaign, and into his general-election account.

Braun is challenging Democratic Sen. Joe Donnelly in a key Republican pickup opportunity, and has reported less than $2 million in direct contributions for the effort, which is dwarfed by the $6.4 million in loans he’s used to bankroll the campaign.

A significant chunk of that money has come from Braun himself; he’s loaned his campaign about $1.8 million. But most of it has come by way of loans from three banks, all of which are charging him relatively low interest rates.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: icemanj on October 04, 2018, 05:27:22 PM
Just got polled for this race. I guess this was a "push poll" because I got asked who I would vote for about 6 or 7 times with seemingly negative facts about each candidate in between each one. Donnelly voting 'no' on Kavanaugh was one of them.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on October 07, 2018, 02:03:26 AM
Apparently, Senator Donnelly is getting a surprising number of supportive or neutral comments from constituents on social media.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on October 07, 2018, 02:15:55 AM
The no vote will cause him to lose, I had him at a tossup to narrowly favor to him before that stupid move.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: CookieDamage on October 07, 2018, 02:45:38 AM
The no vote will cause him to lose, I had him at a tossup to narrowly favor to him before that stupid move.

You have Manchin also pegged to lose so I can safely not take you seriously.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Sherrod Brown Shill on October 08, 2018, 06:53:56 AM
The no vote will cause him to lose, I had him at a tossup to narrowly favor to him before that stupid move.

You have Manchin also pegged to lose so I can safely not take you seriously.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Pollster on October 08, 2018, 08:46:39 AM
Just got polled for this race. I guess this was a "push poll" because I got asked who I would vote for about 6 or 7 times with seemingly negative facts about each candidate in between each one. Donnelly voting 'no' on Kavanaugh was one of them.

A push poll would not re-ask who you are voting for (every question costs money, and push polls are designed to spread the most negative information to the most people at the lowest price point), and would be focused on one candidate.

This was probably a genuine poll to test potential lines of attack for TV/digital ads and mail pieces, though it is admittedly very late in the game to just be testing messages now.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: BudgieForce on October 08, 2018, 09:19:24 AM
As long as the top line isn't effected, it's not really a push poll..


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on October 08, 2018, 04:35:27 PM
Debate night tonight!  Who's watching?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: SCNCmod on October 24, 2018, 05:48:16 AM
Polls seem to indicate that Donnelly's win depends on the Libertarian getting 7 or 8%.  Is this correct... and what are the chances that some to this Libertarian support will end up voting Republican instead?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MT Treasurer on October 24, 2018, 12:47:44 PM
The fact that I had to go back to page seven on this board to find this thread says a lot about this race.  No one is talking about it.  I really get the feeling there is no enthusiasm at all for Braun; which leaves Donnelly is a good position as Democrats are motivated to turn out this season no matter what.

The lack of quality polling does have me uneasy on this race though.

---
Edit:

I've dug through a lot of the crosstabs on the polls and they don't really give me a lot of faith in Donnelly.

He's averaging well under 45% in most of the polls and I don't really see why there would be a late break for him, but can see a million reasons why late deciders who just go from Braun with Trump's approval rebounding at the end of the cycle.

Yeah, Donnelly could certainly win in a big Democratic wave, but I doubt he survives even a slight GOP overperformance, and I don’t get why people think he’s underrated or that the race is Lean D (or Likely D, if you trust 538's "model"). A Braun win would hardly be an upset.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: IceSpear on October 24, 2018, 12:52:34 PM
The fact that I had to go back to page seven on this board to find this thread says a lot about this race.  No one is talking about it.  I really get the feeling there is no enthusiasm at all for Braun; which leaves Donnelly is a good position as Democrats are motivated to turn out this season no matter what.

The lack of quality polling does have me uneasy on this race though.

---
Edit:

I've dug through a lot of the crosstabs on the polls and they don't really give me a lot of faith in Donnelly.

He's averaging well under 45% in most of the polls and I don't really see why there would be a late break for him, but can see a million reasons why late deciders who just go from Braun with Trump's approval rebounding at the end of the cycle.

Yeah, Donnelly could certainly win in a big Democratic wave, but I doubt he survives even a slight GOP overperformance, and I don’t get why people think he’s underrated or that the race is Lean D (or Likely D, if you trust 538's "model"). A Braun win would hardly be an upset.

538 still has Heitkamp more likely to win than Braun, lol. Their trashdamentals are a joke.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: 2016 on October 28, 2018, 02:14:43 PM
Desperation Attempts having started by the Indiana Democratic Party. They know they're behind and now sending out Mailers calling Libertarian Candidate Lucy Brenton the True Conservative. LMAO.



This smells like absolute Desperation.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Politician on October 28, 2018, 02:16:43 PM
Desperation Attempts having started by the Indiana Democratic Party. They know they're behind and now sending out Mailers calling Libertarian Candidate Lucy Brenton the True Conservative. LMAO.



This smells like absolute Desperation.
Brilliant move. Anything they can do to reduce Braun's vote share hurts for the GOP.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Comrade Funk on October 28, 2018, 04:00:47 PM
Desperation Attempts having started by the Indiana Democratic Party. They know they're behind and now sending out Mailers calling Libertarian Candidate Lucy Brenton the True Conservative. LMAO.



This smells like absolute Desperation.
You're the biggest hack on the forum.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: I Can Now Die Happy on October 28, 2018, 04:04:17 PM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Zaybay on October 28, 2018, 04:05:12 PM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.

Perhaps they wear Orange avatars as well.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: I Can Now Die Happy on October 28, 2018, 04:06:48 PM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.

Perhaps they wear Orange avatars as well.

I wonder who you could be talking about.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: UncleSam on October 28, 2018, 04:20:57 PM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.

Perhaps they wear Orange avatars as well.
Where is the all of the above option


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: The Free North on October 28, 2018, 04:25:48 PM
3rd party candidates usually underperform their poll numbers by a decent margin (if their support doesnt melt away with a few weeks to go). I would imagine most Libertarian voters would go to the Reps not the Dems so seeing that L number shrink and Braun rise is not surprising. The state was sadly forgotten about by pollsters for a while, but i would surprised if this wasnt an R pickup.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Zaybay on October 28, 2018, 04:32:29 PM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.

Perhaps they wear Orange avatars as well.
Where is the all of the above option
Yeah, true, hacks come in all shapes and sizes.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: J. J. on October 28, 2018, 07:48:15 PM
The thing I'm looking at is that Trump greatly underpolled in IN.   Unless the modeling is really improved, Braun may be underpolling a bit.  A 0.2 point Braun lead could translate into a 3.2 point win. 

That is also why I'm worried about AZ and NV. Trump overpolled. 


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: BuckeyeNut on October 28, 2018, 11:12:01 PM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.

Perhaps they wear Orange avatars as well.

I wonder who you could be talking about.

You have less than 200 posts and are already one of the dumbest members of Atlas. And no, not for playing coy, but sheer hackery. Congrats, that's impressive.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: SCNCmod on October 29, 2018, 11:46:03 AM
I figured I'd look at the google trends for the state to try and get a better look at the race.

Not surprisingly, in the past week you can see Immigration skyrocketing (migrant caravan bump):
()

Healthcare has been consistently the highest political trend in the state, which is good news for Donnelly, but the immigration bump has got to be a plus from Braun.  If you look at the county map, Healthcare is the top issue in Donnelly counties and immigration is the top in Murdock counties (although there are a fair amount of Murdock counties with Healthcare on top still):
()

Basically, Donnelly needs Indiana to defy its political lean and he seemed to be doing alright.  But with immigration issues mobilizing the state's fundamentals, it makes sense Braun is getting the wind in his sails at the right time.

I think Tariffs could decide this race if it is really close.  There is a small uptrend in the Blue line for Tariffs in you graph... And this is one issue that has seemed to  create a backlash for Trump in Midwestern states (and could explain why polling models may overestimate Republican support this year?)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: President Punxsutawney Phil on October 30, 2018, 01:20:43 AM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.

Perhaps they wear Orange avatars as well.
Where is the all of the above option
Hacks, hacks, hacks!
You're all hacks!
None of you are free of sin!
People were astonished at his doctrine.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on October 30, 2018, 01:23:55 AM
The biggest hacks on this forum tend to be the people with red or maroon avatars actually LOL

also, I think Donnelly is going down. Braun is getting more and more of the previously undecided voters.

Meanwhile live look at the Donnelly Campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZoJZddsSfM


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on October 30, 2018, 04:15:17 AM
Change Research has IN-9 as Braun+9 and IN-5 as Donnelly+5.

Besides that being a funny coincidence, how does that compare to the 2012 race? 


IN-05 is a traditionally Republican area but it is that same old story of GOP Struggling with college educated white suburbs. Braun doesn't really offend these people the way that Mourdoch did, though. The big unknown that will determine this race, is do enough of these people come home or not to the GOP.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: NewYorkExpress on October 31, 2018, 03:18:28 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/31/politics/joe-donnelly-but-awkward-moment-diversity/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/31/politics/joe-donnelly-but-awkward-moment-diversity/index.html)

Quote
Democratic Sen. Joe Donnelly from Indiana awkwardly touted minority staff members during a debate Tuesday night, seeming to suggest they succeeded despite their race or ethnicity.

"Our state director is Indian-American, but he does an amazing job," he said. "Our director of all constituent services, she's African-American, but she does an even more incredible job than you can ever imagine."

Donnelly is one of the Senate's most endangered incumbents. He is facing Republican challenger Mike Braun in next week's midterm election.

His comment Tuesday night came in the context of a question about diversity.

"We want everybody to have a chance in Indiana and in America, and my offices reflect that -- both on the campaign side and on the Senate side," he said as he began his answer.

After highlighting the two staffers, Donnelly continued: "It isn't their race or their religion, it's the incredible person that they are. But at the same time, they have to have a chance. They have to have an opportunity, and that's my responsibility. And I've done it in every office I've had, and I've done it in every campaign I've had, because my campaigns and our Senate office should reflect the face of Indiana."

In a statement Wednesday, Donnelly said he'd used the wrong word.

"I misspoke," he said. "I meant to say 'and' instead of 'but.' That would have communicated what I have tried to do my entire life: that I make a habit to seek out and promote people of color for both my campaign and official staff."

Is this the deathblow to Donnelly's campaign?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: ON Progressive on October 31, 2018, 03:19:49 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/31/politics/joe-donnelly-but-awkward-moment-diversity/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/31/politics/joe-donnelly-but-awkward-moment-diversity/index.html)

Quote
Democratic Sen. Joe Donnelly from Indiana awkwardly touted minority staff members during a debate Tuesday night, seeming to suggest they succeeded despite their race or ethnicity.

"Our state director is Indian-American, but he does an amazing job," he said. "Our director of all constituent services, she's African-American, but she does an even more incredible job than you can ever imagine."

Donnelly is one of the Senate's most endangered incumbents. He is facing Republican challenger Mike Braun in next week's midterm election.

His comment Tuesday night came in the context of a question about diversity.

"We want everybody to have a chance in Indiana and in America, and my offices reflect that -- both on the campaign side and on the Senate side," he said as he began his answer.

After highlighting the two staffers, Donnelly continued: "It isn't their race or their religion, it's the incredible person that they are. But at the same time, they have to have a chance. They have to have an opportunity, and that's my responsibility. And I've done it in every office I've had, and I've done it in every campaign I've had, because my campaigns and our Senate office should reflect the face of Indiana."

In a statement Wednesday, Donnelly said he'd used the wrong word.

"I misspoke," he said. "I meant to say 'and' instead of 'but.' That would have communicated what I have tried to do my entire life: that I make a habit to seek out and promote people of color for both my campaign and official staff."

Is this the deathblow to Donnelly's campaign?

This will shift almost zero votes, if it shifts any. If he loses, it won't be because of this.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on October 31, 2018, 05:50:17 PM
IN-5 is a very good data point for Donnelly.  It's the only district where Clinton 2016 improved on Obama 2012 performance; and it's looking even better for Donnelly this time around.
Remembering the 2016 results, it seems likely those new Donnelly votes are coming from Hamilton County, which has long been a Republican bastion (the last Democrat to carry the county was Woodrow Wilson in 1912 against a divided GOP field), but where the local Democratic party has been noticeably gaining ground in the last few elections. Significantly, said growth is reflected pretty well down ballot: it really does seem that the county is becoming more Democratic (though the GOP is still the heavy favorite), as opposed to a one-time swing against Trump.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Oryxslayer on October 31, 2018, 05:55:24 PM
The other thing about IN-05 is that it includes quite a bit of Northern Marion thats full of dem voters and AAs.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on October 31, 2018, 06:15:21 PM
Marist: Joe up by 2

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/indiana-senate-race-poll-democrat-joe-donnelly-leads-republican-mike-braun.html

FAUX News: Joe up by 7 (!!!!)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-indiana-senate-poll-10-31-2018

If Donnelly manages to win IN-05, that bodes VERY well for Danny O'Connor in OH-12, IMO.

The other thing about IN-05 is that it includes quite a bit of Northern Marion thats full of dem voters and AAs.
Yes, and it's also one of those ancestrally Republican regions that started trending D in the 90s.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on October 31, 2018, 07:04:35 PM
Phew. I was really worried this one was slipping away.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on October 31, 2018, 09:02:45 PM
Honestly, the only disappointment from this race is that Howey never conducted a poll.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 03, 2018, 05:13:03 PM
I early voted today.  It was a 1 hour and 40 minute wait.  Took about 10 minutes to show ID, wait for a booth to open, and vote. 

Vote for Joe, of course. 

The crowd looked to be a decent mix of old, young, and in the middle.  Largely white but also a significant minority presence.  Lots of women, too.

Per one of the poll workers, about 4600 people have voted since early voting began at this particular early voting site.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Gass3268 on November 03, 2018, 05:19:43 PM
I early voted today.  It was a 1 hour and 40 minute wait.  Took about 10 minutes to show ID, wait for a booth to open, and vote. 

Vote for Joe, of course. 

The crowd looked to be a decent mix of old, young, and in the middle.  Largely white but also a significant minority presence.  Lots of women, too.

Per one of the poll workers, about 4600 people have voted since early voting began at this particular early voting site.


Obviously this is an area Donnelly needs to clean up in, correct?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 03, 2018, 05:22:07 PM
I early voted today.  It was a 1 hour and 40 minute wait.  Took about 10 minutes to show ID, wait for a booth to open, and vote.  

Vote for Joe, of course.  

The crowd looked to be a decent mix of old, young, and in the middle.  Largely white but also a significant minority presence.  Lots of women, too.

Per one of the poll workers, about 4600 people have voted since early voting began at this particular early voting site.


Obviously this is an area Donnelly needs to clean up in, correct?
Yes.  Lake County is historically the most Democratic county in the state (although it trended slightly R in 2016 due to Trump's message and Marion surpassed it), with Gary, Hammond, and East Chicago being the county's core Democratic micro-cities.  I live in Munster, a well-off suburban town that trended toward Hillary in 2016.

Just to clarify: That's 4600 people at this particular site, not in the entire county.  The poll worker said lines have been this long every day since the beginning.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 04, 2018, 04:11:36 PM
BTW, I know this isn't exactly about the IN-SEN race, but it's somewhat related to it.  There's an Indiana state senate race on Tuesday.  This seat in particular is currently held by an entrenched incumbent, Mike Delph, who is one of the architects of the controversial state RFRA law.  He's being challenged by openly gay Democrat JD Ford.  Think of it as the Midwestern version of Bob Marshall vs. Danica Roem.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/01/delph-faces-election-rematch-swing-district/1744133002/?fbclid=IwAR0BtIfagQTe52UkRPsimugCCIryRHNn6qIcnvEGfemN78fBKsyJcC1Y8vg

Quote
After fending off a tough primary challenge, conservative firebrand Mike Delph is locked in a tight re-election rematch with progressive Democrat J.D. Ford for a seat in the Indiana Senate.

Ford came within about 2,400 votes of beating Delph four years ago and thinks he's worked hard enough to bridge that gap Nov. 6. He enters the fight with significant financial support, including from the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce.

...

Still, Ford's close loss four years ago led the senator's critics to think he's vulnerable. The progressive side of his own party threw its support behind his primary opponent in May, but Delph handily won with 58 percent of the vote.

Ford has reason to believe the general election could be closer. District 29, one of the state's few politically diverse, competitive districts, includes chunks of Carmel and Indianapolis and a slice of Zionsville.

The Delph-Ford race is one of just a handful of highly competitive races among the 125 Indiana House and Senate seats up for grabs this year. While Democrats hope to pick up seats after suffering years of election-night losses, the outcome isn't expected to significantly erode Republican domination of both chambers.

Delph has been a polarizing senator, drawing criticism and praise, depending on your point of view, for his stumping for socially conservative policies on religious freedom, marriage, immigration and abortion.

The race is considered a dead heat.  Given how ancestrally R this district is and the closeness of the race, I think this race may prove to be a bellwether of the US Senate race.  If Ford either wins or comes very close to defeating Delph, then I think Donnelly is having a good night and is likely having a coattail effect on these downballot candidates.

Any thoughts?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: ON Progressive on November 04, 2018, 04:17:18 PM

Thanks for posting this, I will definitely be watching this one on Tuesday. One of the most satisfying things in life is to see anti-LGBT a-holes lose elections to LGBT candidates.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 04, 2018, 04:22:12 PM

Thanks for posting this, I will definitely be watching this one on Tuesday. One of the most satisfying things in life is to see anti-LGBT a-holes lose elections to LGBT candidates.
Yeah, Danica Roem beating Bob Marshall was the highlight of the night for me last year.  Let's hope Ford has similar success!

But do you think that my view is a typical Atlas #hottake?  Or is there some truth that this state senate race could be a bellwether for the Donnelly one? 


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 04, 2018, 04:27:32 PM

Thanks for posting this, I will definitely be watching this one on Tuesday. One of the most satisfying things in life is to see anti-LGBT a-holes lose elections to LGBT candidates.
Yeah, Danica Roem beating Bob Marshall was the highlight of the night for me last year.  Let's hope Ford has similar success!

But do you think that my view is a typical Atlas #hottake?  Or is there some truth that this state senate race could be a bellwether for the Donnelly one? 

Didn’t this district vote for Clinton? If so, I don’t really think it tells us much about Indiana as a whole
I'm not sure if we have 2016 presidential breakdowns by state senate district.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Bidenworth2020 on November 04, 2018, 04:48:54 PM

Thanks for posting this, I will definitely be watching this one on Tuesday. One of the most satisfying things in life is to see anti-LGBT a-holes lose elections to LGBT candidates.
Yeah, Danica Roem beating Bob Marshall was the highlight of the night for me last year.  Let's hope Ford has similar success!

But do you think that my view is a typical Atlas #hottake?  Or is there some truth that this state senate race could be a bellwether for the Donnelly one? 

Didn’t this district vote for Clinton? If so, I don’t really think it tells us much about Indiana as a whole
I'm not sure if we have 2016 presidential breakdowns by state senate district.
it went for hillary by 12... idk if thats a great bellwether

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14t1IIgPtL8VfJYwl0m4nXTsoZYEg2HyzuyOgCC0NG0I/edit#gid=719564425


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: SCNCmod on November 05, 2018, 11:49:20 PM
What's the feeling on the ground in Indiana... Is momentum shifting in either direction?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on November 06, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
Does he actually say his name "brawn"? I've only ever seen the name "Mike Braun" in writing, and I don't particularly feel like watching one of his ads to hear him say it himself.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 06, 2018, 09:08:45 AM
Preliminary reports from Hamilton County, the wealthiest and most-educated county in the state:

"Hamilton County early voting: 32,844.  Mailed-in absentee ballots: 9,777.  Over 23,000 voted in-person already today."

Assuming the GOP is in for a burb-stompin' tonight, this is welcome news for Joe Donnelly, especially given Hamilton swung leftward in 2016.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Pandaguineapig on November 06, 2018, 09:39:23 AM
Preliminary reports from Hamilton County, the wealthiest and most-educated county in the state:

"Hamilton County early voting: 32,844.  Mailed-in absentee ballots: 9,777.  Over 23,000 voted in-person already today."

Assuming the GOP is in for a burb-stompin' tonight, this is welcome news for Joe Donnelly, especially given Hamilton swung leftward in 2016.

Eh Trump still won it by 20, so did Holcomb when he won by only 5 percent


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 06, 2018, 09:50:20 AM
Preliminary reports from Hamilton County, the wealthiest and most-educated county in the state:

"Hamilton County early voting: 32,844.  Mailed-in absentee ballots: 9,777.  Over 23,000 voted in-person already today."

Assuming the GOP is in for a burb-stompin' tonight, this is welcome news for Joe Donnelly, especially given Hamilton swung leftward in 2016.

Eh Trump still won it by 20, so did Holcomb when he won by only 5 percent
Donnelly isn't going to win Hamilton County.  However, he could surpass the 40% mark, which could make the difference for him assuming he loses ground in the rurals.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: SCNCmod on November 06, 2018, 12:55:01 PM
Are a lot of the Republican voters in Indiana hardcore MAGA til the end types or are most more reasonable?  Just doing a quick search of Donnelly on twitter and every other post is some MAGA person talking total crazy trash about Donnelly. (same regarding McCaskill)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Wisconsin SC Race 2019 on November 06, 2018, 12:56:16 PM
Are a lot of the Republican voters in Indiana hardcore MAGA til the end types or are most more reasonable?  Just doing a quick search of Donnelly on twitter and every other post is some MAGA person talking total crazy trash about Donnelly. (same regarding McCaskill)
I'm not sure you were looking at Indiana locals or Russian bots. 


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: SCNCmod on November 06, 2018, 12:59:53 PM
Are a lot of the Republican voters in Indiana hardcore MAGA til the end types or are most more reasonable?  Just doing a quick search of Donnelly on twitter and every other post is some MAGA person talking total crazy trash about Donnelly. (same regarding McCaskill)
I'm not sure you were looking at Indiana locals or Russian bots. 

That could be very true!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Yellowhammer on November 06, 2018, 03:39:01 PM
To anyone reading this who lives in Indiana - vote Mike Braun and straight Republican downballot!

#SendTrumpReinforcements
#BraunWillFireSleepingJoe


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: UWS on November 06, 2018, 04:17:31 PM
To anyone reading this who lives in Indiana - vote Mike Braun and straight Republican downballot!

#SendTrumpReinforcements
#BraunWillFireSleepingJoe

I Like Mike

()


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on November 06, 2018, 04:43:20 PM
To anyone reading this who lives in Indiana - vote Mike Braun and straight Republican downballot!

#SendTrumpReinforcements
#BraunWillFireSleepingJoe

()

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsHbHR3Os6U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsHbHR3Os6U)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Woody on November 06, 2018, 04:51:19 PM
This is going to be an exciting night.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Wisconsin SC Race 2019 on November 06, 2018, 04:51:48 PM
I can see the momentum shifting toward Braun the same way Bayh collapsed last year.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 06, 2018, 04:54:08 PM
I can see the momentum shifting toward Braun the same way Bayh collapsed last year.
How so?  Young ran an energetic campaign defining Bayh as a corrupt Washington insider.  The momentum shifted toward Young in mid-October and never looked back.

This time, the polling momentum has shifted to Donnelly.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: houseonaboat on November 06, 2018, 05:09:25 PM
Turnout in Dem stronghold Monroe County, IN at 45% as of 4pm; it was 26% in 2014. Issues with ballots in several polling places as well.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/06/indiana-election-2018-indystar-live-coverage-braun-donnelly/1749126002/



UPDATE - as of 5 pm turnout is up to 48% in Monroe.




This + the Lake and Marion numbers are very, very bad for Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Woody on November 06, 2018, 05:17:38 PM
Turnout in Dem stronghold Monroe County, IN at 45% as of 4pm; it was 26% in 2014. Issues with ballots in several polling places as well.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/06/indiana-election-2018-indystar-live-coverage-braun-donnelly/1749126002/



UPDATE - as of 5 pm turnout is up to 48% in Monroe.




This + the Lake and Marion numbers are very, very bad for Braun.
Those numbers are not going to stop Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Joey1996 on November 06, 2018, 06:14:46 PM
This is looking like it will be a dragout. Gary might be the deciding factor


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Mr. Smith on November 06, 2018, 06:28:19 PM
I've got a bad feeling about this one.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Young Conservative on November 06, 2018, 06:49:01 PM
Currently in counties that are reporting more than initial numbers, Braun is exceeding 2012 but in very few is he exceeding 2016. Most he is underperforming Young. That seems expected, since no one thinks Braun will win by ten.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on November 06, 2018, 06:56:00 PM
Goodbye Donnelly, nice knowing you.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: J. J. on November 06, 2018, 06:58:48 PM
I'd still wait for one of the urban counties. 


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Young Conservative on November 06, 2018, 07:00:06 PM
Listen, I am no Bagel. This is not over. But we all have to admit, the rural support Donelly had in 2012 is gone. He'll either win thanks to suburbs and urban areas or he will lose.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: DabbingSanta on November 06, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
Listen, I am no Bagel. This is not over. But we all have to admit, the rural support Donelly had in 2012 is gone. He'll either win thanks to suburbs and urban areas or he will lose.

This seems to be the trend nationwide in all elections. Rural support for Dems has taken a nose dive. Will be interesting to see if Donnelly can squeak by with support in Gary, Indy. My guess is he wont.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: J. J. on November 06, 2018, 07:38:48 PM
Listen, I am no Bagel. This is not over. But we all have to admit, the rural support Donelly had in 2012 is gone. He'll either win thanks to suburbs and urban areas or he will lose.

This seems to be the trend nationwide in all elections. Rural support for Dems has taken a nose dive. Will be interesting to see if Donnelly can squeak by with support in Gary, Indy. My guess is he wont.

Donnelly is taking a 34point lead in Lake. 


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: ProudModerate2 on November 06, 2018, 08:01:06 PM
The counties in the very south-west corner of Indiana, around the large city of Evansville have not reported anything yet.
I wonder if those could bring the race closer?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: tmthforu94 on November 06, 2018, 08:35:51 PM
The counties in the very south-west corner of Indiana, around the large city of Evansville have not reported anything yet.
I wonder if those could bring the race closer?
That is Braun's home turf, he's from Jasper which is just north of Evansville.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on November 06, 2018, 09:01:40 PM
State Senator Mike Delph currently trailing his Democratic challenger 43–57% in IN-S29, with 56% of the vote in.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MT Treasurer on November 06, 2018, 09:35:38 PM
Bayh-bayh, baby!


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Joey1996 on November 06, 2018, 09:37:41 PM
Another one bites the dust.

At least Beto putting in work


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Reaganfan on November 06, 2018, 09:52:16 PM
Donnelly just called Braun to concede.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: TML on November 06, 2018, 09:54:28 PM
This goes to show that running as Republican-lite nowadays turns off progressive base voters (which includes working-class voters who the Democrats used to dominate) while doing little to attract so-called moderate Republicans. It was mostly these type of candidates who lost downballot under the Obama administration. While I would have preferred a Donnelly win to a Braun win, I hope this serves as a lesson for the Democratic Party to appeal to working class voters more in the future.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers on November 06, 2018, 10:00:06 PM
Donnelly wasn't a progressive


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on November 06, 2018, 10:04:37 PM
This goes to show that running as Republican-lite nowadays turns off progressive base voters (which includes working-class voters who the Democrats used to dominate) while doing little to attract so-called moderate Republicans. It was mostly these type of candidates who lost downballot under the Obama administration. While I would have preferred a Donnelly win to a Braun win, I hope this serves as a lesson for the Democratic Party to appeal to working class voters more in the future.
::)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Joey1996 on November 06, 2018, 10:06:55 PM

No, really?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers on November 06, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
I lived next door and IL, all taxes are low, IN doesn't like tax increases, that's why Donnelly lost. Fear of tax hikes


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Unconditional Surrender Truman on November 06, 2018, 11:16:47 PM
State Senator Mike Delph currently trailing his Democratic challenger 43–57% in IN-S29, with 56% of the vote in.
Silver lining for IN Dems tonight: according to NYT, J.D. Ford wins in IN-S29, 53–47% over Delph —almost exactly the inverse of the 2014 margin.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Tekken_Guy on November 06, 2018, 11:23:13 PM
I think it shows one thing. Obama-Trump voters aren’t coming back to the Democrats.  Dems took these voters for granted.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 07, 2018, 12:48:18 AM
People underestimated Braun on this site. 


I have made the comparison that Braun is a lot like David Perdue.
1. Both were business not politicians, but both had some controversial business decisions to defend
2. Both were from the Southern parts of their states.
3. Both were viewed as good candidates for the traditional but slipping away GOP suburbs around the major city
4. Both had come from behind to defeat Representatives in the primary.





Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Lechasseur on November 07, 2018, 01:02:36 AM
I think it shows one thing. Obama-Trump voters aren’t coming back to the Democrats.  Dems took these voters for granted.

Agreed


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Pandaguineapig on November 07, 2018, 01:45:22 AM
I talked to a friend who worked on the campaign, their internals only had them up 1-2 points but all the undecideds broke for Braun (pretty much the same way Young and Holcomb won two years ago)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on November 07, 2018, 02:10:59 AM
Sounds like Braun won by 10 pats.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: DabbingSanta on November 07, 2018, 08:22:07 AM

Porter County isn't out yet, so I expect the margin will decrease a bit. Still a very impressive victory for Braun.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: mvd10 on November 07, 2018, 08:24:02 AM
Ehm, I wouldn't say Obama-Trump voters won't come back to the Democratic Party considering it looks like GOP candidates did worse than Trump with the WWC. According to the exit polls they went from 67% to 61%, something I'd call a pretty big swing.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: RINO Tom on November 07, 2018, 10:59:44 AM
I think it shows one thing. Obama-Trump voters aren’t coming back to the Democrats.  Dems took these voters for granted.

Agreed

This is a fine argument to make, but I would use a different state, LOL.  People usually mean Obama 2012/Trump 2016 voters, and Indiana went decidedly for Romney.  When I think of an "Obama-Trump" voter, I am picturing someone in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 07, 2018, 11:09:37 AM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 07, 2018, 04:08:42 PM
Oh, and with this result, I think it's safe to say the Butternut Democrat Era is dead.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Beefalow and the Consumer on November 07, 2018, 04:51:38 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 07, 2018, 04:57:22 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Beefalow and the Consumer on November 08, 2018, 11:53:17 AM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


"I'm voting for the local Democrats, but I'm really not sure about Donnelly," was a common refrain I heard, when not getting the door slammed in my face by the Former Democrats of Speedway.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 08, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


"I'm voting for the local Democrats, but I'm really not sure about Donnelly," was a common refrain I heard, when not getting the door slammed in my face by the Former Democrats of Speedway.
Ouch.  Was Kavanaugh a factor, or was it the onslaught of "I'm not like those Crazy Democrats" commercials?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Politician on November 08, 2018, 12:13:50 PM
Donnelly losing so decisively should put an end to the "we need to run moderate heroes to win in red states" myth.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: lfromnj on November 08, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


"I'm voting for the local Democrats, but I'm really not sure about Donnelly," was a common refrain I heard, when not getting the door slammed in my face by the Former Democrats of Speedway.
Ouch.  Was Kavanaugh a factor, or was it the onslaught of "I'm not like those Crazy Democrats" commercials?


Donnely really should have seen the writing on the wall and tried to win hamilton county instead of those rurals. That would have been the only way to win. Instead Donnely probably turned those voters off with immigration rhetoric.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: IceSpear on November 08, 2018, 05:42:15 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


"I'm voting for the local Democrats, but I'm really not sure about Donnelly," was a common refrain I heard, when not getting the door slammed in my face by the Former Democrats of Speedway.
Ouch.  Was Kavanaugh a factor, or was it the onslaught of "I'm not like those Crazy Democrats" commercials?


Donnely really should have seen the writing on the wall and tried to win hamilton county instead of those rurals. That would have been the only way to win. Instead Donnely probably turned those voters off with immigration rhetoric.

Yeah, I agree. It's telling that Donnelly ended up doing worse than McCaskill. It was a big mistake for him to pander to Trumpists rather than focus on turning out his base. With that said, he was probably doomed regardless.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Xing on November 08, 2018, 05:52:42 PM
Considering that Donnelly won 4 out of 5 Obama/Trump counties (I'm assuming he won Porter, it's not showing up), and just barely lost the 5th one, I don't think we can conclude that Obama/Trump voters are "never coming back." Or maybe you should ask Senators Vukmir, James, Renacci, and Barletta, or third term Governor Walker about how much Obama/Trump voters helped them. Clearly some can be won back, and Donnelly lost not because of Obama/Trump voters, but because Democrats aren't winning Indiana as long as we're this polarized.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: I Can Now Die Happy on November 08, 2018, 05:57:33 PM
The Democratic base in Indiana was turning out regardless because Kerplumpf is POTUS. Donnelly made the smart decision in trying to pander to Trump fans. It just didn't work out.

Congratulations to Senator elect Braun! I don't regret supporting and endorsing you in the IN-SEN primary. Outsider businessman who reminded me of Trump.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Beefalow and the Consumer on November 08, 2018, 10:14:45 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


"I'm voting for the local Democrats, but I'm really not sure about Donnelly," was a common refrain I heard, when not getting the door slammed in my face by the Former Democrats of Speedway.
Ouch.  Was Kavanaugh a factor, or was it the onslaught of "I'm not like those Crazy Democrats" commercials?


A lot of it is he doesn't really stand for anything, and he ran campaign ads touting how he's "with Trump when Trump is good for Hoosiers," and his commitment to funding the border wall. With Democrats like him, who needs Republicans?

There were also probably moderates who were upset with the Kavanaugh process, and union types not happy about his company shipping jobs to Mexico while he swore up and down about how he was going to protect American jobs.

It was a disaster.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 08, 2018, 10:26:23 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


"I'm voting for the local Democrats, but I'm really not sure about Donnelly," was a common refrain I heard, when not getting the door slammed in my face by the Former Democrats of Speedway.
Ouch.  Was Kavanaugh a factor, or was it the onslaught of "I'm not like those Crazy Democrats" commercials?


A lot of it is he doesn't really stand for anything, and he ran campaign ads touting how he's "with Trump when Trump is good for Hoosiers," and his commitment to funding the border wall. With Democrats like him, who needs Republicans?

There were also probably moderates who were upset with the Kavanaugh process, and union types not happy about his company shipping jobs to Mexico while he swore up and down about how he was going to protect American jobs.

It was a disaster.
Yeah, in retrospect, he was a pretty bleh candidate.  I appreciate his bipartisanship, but he had a LOT of cringe-y moments on the campaign trail.  Not that Braun was any dynamic campaigner, but he DID have an edge with the fact that this is Pence's home state, Trump is the President, and Kavanaugh was looming on a lot of minds.

I think someone in the mold of Lee Hamilton or Birch Bayh could have held the seat.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: lfromnj on November 08, 2018, 10:29:10 PM
The Indiana Democratic Party seems to be giving the Florida Democratic Party a run for its money in terms of ineffectiveness.

John Zody needs to be fired like yesterday.

And Donnelly was a fool for hiring Peter Hanscom as campaign manager.  No one should hire him for anything again.  


I canvassed for Democrats in Indianapolis. They are a hot mess.
I compared the 2012 results to this year's.  Turnout in Lake and Marion was abysmal, and Donnelly lost ground in many places he won six years ago.  Looking at the numbers in St. Joseph County, they were awful for him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing his old congressional district (both the current gerrymandered one and the one that he served before the Senate).


"I'm voting for the local Democrats, but I'm really not sure about Donnelly," was a common refrain I heard, when not getting the door slammed in my face by the Former Democrats of Speedway.
Ouch.  Was Kavanaugh a factor, or was it the onslaught of "I'm not like those Crazy Democrats" commercials?


A lot of it is he doesn't really stand for anything, and he ran campaign ads touting how he's "with Trump when Trump is good for Hoosiers," and his commitment to funding the border wall. With Democrats like him, who needs Republicans?

There were also probably moderates who were upset with the Kavanaugh process, and union types not happy about his company shipping jobs to Mexico while he swore up and down about how he was going to protect American jobs.

It was a disaster.
Yeah, in retrospect, he was a pretty bleh candidate.  I appreciate his bipartisanship, but he had a LOT of cringe-y moments on the campaign trail.  Not that Braun was any dynamic campaigner, but he DID have an edge with the fact that this is Pence's home state, Trump is the President, and Kavanaugh was looming on a lot of minds.

I think someone in the mold of Lee Hamilton or Birch Bayh could have held the seat.

For these states democrats literally need to clone Jason Kander at this point and send him to every single state. The fact he only lost by 3 when Trump was on the ballot 2 years ago seems like a miracle at this point.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: UWS on November 09, 2018, 01:11:27 AM

By even bigger than this : by 11 points.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Dr. Arch on November 09, 2018, 01:15:08 AM

   Mike Braun   Republican    1,120,895    51.39%
   Joe Donnelly   Democratic    971,563    44.55%

???


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: IceSpear on November 09, 2018, 01:43:50 AM

   Mike Braun   Republican    1,120,895    51.39%
   Joe Donnelly   Democratic    971,563    44.55%

???

Donnelly actually was losing by double digits for a while. Somehow some Indiana counties take days to report results.  There's still nothing from Porter County on either NYT or CNN, lol.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Dr. Arch on November 09, 2018, 02:07:46 AM

   Mike Braun   Republican    1,120,895    51.39%
   Joe Donnelly   Democratic    971,563    44.55%

???

Donnelly actually was losing by double digits for a while. Somehow some Indiana counties take days to report results.  There's still nothing from Porter County on either NYT or CNN, lol.

Well yeah, but the post I quoted was made today, lol.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Oryxslayer on November 09, 2018, 06:53:24 PM
If you guys are still wondering why Porter county is out... check out this sh**tshow - 25 tweeted long mind you.

https://twitter.com/varin/status/1060937524040884224?s=19


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 09, 2018, 06:56:07 PM
As Braun's margin of victory shrinks, it's easy to see why Donnelly lost.  He ran a campaign that offended the base (just look at the turnout in Lake and Marion!).


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Oryxslayer on November 09, 2018, 07:01:16 PM




















Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Oryxslayer on November 09, 2018, 07:22:20 PM




















Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Oryxslayer on November 09, 2018, 07:27:08 PM










Sounds like this country was more incompetent then Broward.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: wbrocks67 on November 09, 2018, 08:03:30 PM
Braun's lead is down to 5.9%. By the end, probably around 5%. Not a horrible margin for Donnelly, it's too bad he couldn't make up that last 5%.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 09, 2018, 08:04:35 PM
Braun's lead is down to 5.9%. By the end, probably around 5%. Not a horrible margin for Donnelly, it's too bad he couldn't make up that last 5%.
If Donnelly wouldn't have promised to vote with Trump on immigration, it's likely he would have gotten higher turnout in East Chicago (known as "The Latino Gary" in Lake County) and Indianapolis, as well as among liberal youth and women.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: CookieDamage on November 09, 2018, 10:07:39 PM
Braun's lead is down to 5.9%. By the end, probably around 5%. Not a horrible margin for Donnelly, it's too bad he couldn't make up that last 5%.
If Donnelly wouldn't have promised to vote with Trump on immigration, it's likely he would have gotten higher turnout in East Chicago (known as "The Latino Gary" in Lake County) and Indianapolis, as well as among liberal youth and women.


Yeah, I remember seeing a news report of him saying he would consider voting with Trump on birthright citizenship. The second I saw that I figured he was done for.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Young Conservative on November 10, 2018, 12:30:49 AM
Braun's lead is down to 5.9%. By the end, probably around 5%. Not a horrible margin for Donnelly, it's too bad he couldn't make up that last 5%.
If Donnelly wouldn't have promised to vote with Trump on immigration, it's likely he would have gotten higher turnout in East Chicago (known as "The Latino Gary" in Lake County) and Indianapolis, as well as among liberal youth and women.



Yeah, I remember seeing a news report of him saying he would consider voting with Trump on birthright citizenship. The second I saw that I figured he was done for.
He would've done worse other places, so it probably didn't make much of a difference.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 10, 2018, 12:39:32 AM
At this point, Mayor Pete is probably the Indiana Democrats' only hope of achieving anything statewide.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: IceSpear on November 10, 2018, 06:39:23 PM
If you guys are still wondering why Porter county is out... check out this sh**tshow - 25 tweeted long mind you.

https://twitter.com/varin/status/1060937524040884224?s=19

Good thing this race wasn't in question. Could you imagine if it went from Braun up 5 on election night to Donnelly squeaking out a victory a few days later? lol


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: lfromnj on November 10, 2018, 07:17:58 PM
At this point, Mayor Pete is probably the Indiana Democrats' only hope of achieving anything statewide.


whats so special about pete buttigeg?


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: libertpaulian on November 11, 2018, 01:03:57 AM
At this point, Mayor Pete is probably the Indiana Democrats' only hope of achieving anything statewide.


whats so special about pete buttigeg?
He's got executive experience, he's decently charismatic (definitely not on a Beto-level, though, but good enough), and he's received positive results from his time as mayor.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 11, 2018, 01:22:13 AM
Braun's lead is down to 5.9%. By the end, probably around 5%. Not a horrible margin for Donnelly, it's too bad he couldn't make up that last 5%.
If Donnelly wouldn't have promised to vote with Trump on immigration, it's likely he would have gotten higher turnout in East Chicago (known as "The Latino Gary" in Lake County) and Indianapolis, as well as among liberal youth and women.



Yeah, I remember seeing a news report of him saying he would consider voting with Trump on birthright citizenship. The second I saw that I figured he was done for.
He would've done worse other places, so it probably didn't make much of a difference.

Keep in mind this strategy actually used to work in the late 2000's. Bev Perdue ran radio ads in the last week about cracking down on illegals in 2008 Governor's race. McCrory was using it as a wedge issue to flip rural voters while trying to remain a Charlotte moderate otherwise (basically Romney style). It actually worked and Perdue held onto a lot of ancestral Democrats who voted for McCain over Obama, while McCrory ran 10% almost head of McCain in Mecklenburg County.

The reason why the strategy no longer works is because one of the two parties have firmed up the issue and thus the voters who care about this issue know who to vote for. Also Donnelly voted for the comprehensive bill in 2013, so he would have a tough time selling that line to these voters if they paid attention to it to begin with, which they probably did not because they have found their Presidential champion in Trump and Trump told them to vote for Braun, which they thus did.



Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Snipee356 on November 11, 2018, 01:25:31 AM
I love Pete! Can he defeat Walorski? (He probably couldn't win statewide due to homophobia. Wish he was born in a better state!)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 11, 2018, 01:41:25 AM
Also on the same point, just like regardless of whether not Mike Coffman and Barbara Comstock had hugged Trump or punched him in the face they were more than likely going to lose because of hostile demographics and the surge of anti-GOP turnout in those districts. The same applies to the likes of Donnelly, McCaskil and Heitkamp because they were facing hostile demographics in an election where Trump managed to turn out his base. Either way they would have lost and probably lost more if they had gone down that path of embracing the party's new position on this issue.



Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: IceSpear on November 11, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Also on the same point, just like regardless of whether not Mike Coffman and Barbara Comstock had hugged Trump or punched him in the face they were more than likely going to lose because of hostile demographics and the surge of anti-GOP turnout in those districts. The same applies to the likes of Donnelly, McCaskil and Heitkamp because they were facing hostile demographics in an election where Trump managed to turn out his base. Either way they would have lost and probably lost more if they had gone down that path of embracing the party's new position on this issue.

I have to wonder what would've happened if Kavanaugh never became a thing. Like, Trump nominates a relatively uncontroversial judge like Gorsuch that McCaskill and Donnelly unceremoniously vote for. Maybe it wouldn't have been enough for them to win, but maybe they would've been the nailbiters we were expecting them to be. And it probably would've saved Bill Nelson (assuming he loses.)


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on November 11, 2018, 02:21:01 AM
Also on the same point, just like regardless of whether not Mike Coffman and Barbara Comstock had hugged Trump or punched him in the face they were more than likely going to lose because of hostile demographics and the surge of anti-GOP turnout in those districts. The same applies to the likes of Donnelly, McCaskil and Heitkamp because they were facing hostile demographics in an election where Trump managed to turn out his base. Either way they would have lost and probably lost more if they had gone down that path of embracing the party's new position on this issue.

I have to wonder what would've happened if Kavanaugh never became a thing. Like, Trump nominates a relatively uncontroversial judge like Gorsuch that McCaskill and Donnelly unceremoniously vote for. Maybe it wouldn't have been enough for them to win, but maybe they would've been the nailbiters we were expecting them to be. And it probably would've saved Bill Nelson (assuming he loses.)

Its possible since controversy drives energy and passion and we know how much this President and his base loves controversy.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: isoscelessquare on November 15, 2018, 02:06:07 PM
Why on earth did Brenton come in 2nd in Starke County???


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: The Mikado on November 16, 2018, 11:23:10 AM
Donnelly losing by 6 really puts the lie to all of those "Obama-Trump voters will never come home" lines. Obama lost IN by 10, Clinton by 19. Donnelly rebounded to 2012 and further. He also reclaimed almost all the Obama Trump counties.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Calthrina950 on November 16, 2018, 11:37:17 AM
Donnelly losing by 6 really puts the lie to all of those "Obama-Trump voters will never come home" lines. Obama lost IN by 10, Clinton by 19. Donnelly rebounded to 2012 and further. He also reclaimed almost all the Obama Trump counties.

But it still wasn't enough. If Donnelly had focused more on the Indianapolis suburbs, he might have pulled it off. And his advertising campaign greatly depressed turnout among the Democratic base.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Yellowhammer on November 16, 2018, 11:45:36 AM
At this point, Mayor Pete is probably the Indiana Democrats' only hope of achieving anything statewide.
I guess they’re truly hopeless then.


Title: Re: IN-SEN: Brains or Braun?
Post by: Calthrina950 on November 16, 2018, 11:48:01 AM
At this point, Mayor Pete is probably the Indiana Democrats' only hope of achieving anything statewide.
I guess they’re truly hopeless then.

They must be. Indiana, though is a historically Republican state, but until recently, Democrats were competitive there. Now, it seems like it's moving completely out of their reach. It still amazes me that Donnelly lost by that much, and the extent to which his "psuedo-Republican" strategy backfired on him.