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General Politics => International General Discussion => Topic started by: #TheShadowyAbyss on June 04, 2017, 09:55:42 PM



Title: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Purge Time with Finn and Jake
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on June 04, 2017, 09:55:42 PM
Quote
Saudi Arabia has joined Bahrain in severing all ties with the State of Qatar in the latest developments of Doha’s widening rift with its Gulf neighbors, a statement from Saudi Press Agency has confirmed.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/06/05/Saudi-Arabia-severs-all-ties-with-Qatar-closes-off-borders.html (http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/06/05/Saudi-Arabia-severs-all-ties-with-Qatar-closes-off-borders.html)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 04, 2017, 10:10:14 PM
Can anyone explain what is going on here?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 04, 2017, 10:26:00 PM
Just read that Egypt and UAE have done the same. Crazy!


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on June 04, 2017, 10:45:00 PM
Saudi Arabia severed ties with Qatar for supporting terrorist groups in Yemen and Syria....How ironic.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dereich on June 04, 2017, 11:10:10 PM
Well, according to Al Jazeera (which is owned by the Qatari monarchy), this all has to do with some kind of hack of the Qatari news agency. (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/06/saudi-arabia-uae-egypt-bahrain-cut-ties-qatar-170605031700062.html) Apparently, the hackers leaked comments by the Qatari leader which "expressed support for Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and Israel - while suggesting that US President Donald Trump may not last in power." Al Jazeera claims the comments were all fake news (because of course they would, as the monarchy's mouthpiece), but at least this is one side of the story.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: The Other Castro on June 04, 2017, 11:16:17 PM
This could be the start of something very bad.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 04, 2017, 11:19:18 PM
Can anyone explain what is going on here?


The Saudis hate Muslim Brotherhood and the Quataris were big sponsors of them when they were relevant.

There's also Iran, which KSA always gets annoyed that its smaller cousins aren't sufficiently angry about (for reference: Qatar has the weird Islamist fetish that is more utopian unify the ummah than Saudis; UAE only care about money and Oman is in a strange halfway house due to geography and the fact it's brand of religion is different from bath sides).

There's also economic bickering about natural gas etc


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Cashew on June 04, 2017, 11:30:07 PM
Hopefully they will focus more on destabilizing each other instead of spreading their ideological poison across the world.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Matty on June 04, 2017, 11:33:52 PM
This could be the start of something very bad.

pardon my ignorance, but what exactly could this lead to? War between Saudia Arabai and qatar?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Beet on June 04, 2017, 11:36:51 PM
It wouldn't be much of a war. Qatar would be annexed pretty easily.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Crumpets on June 05, 2017, 12:29:12 AM
How the heck did this story go under the radar until this point? Like, wasn't our president just at a meeting with Sisi and Salman? Shouldn't this have been the lead-up to basically all the coverage a la "President Trump, facing further questions about his campaign's relationship with Russian intelligence heads to Saudi Arabia, amid rising tensions between the many Gulf states and their neighbor Qatar?"

I mean, even now it's not the headline story on NBC (Putin interview), CNN (Trump comments on London), Fox (UK Burka Ban?), NYT (ISIS claiming responsibility for attack), Breitbart (Putin Interview), or the Washington Post (Trump comments on London).

No matter what their political bent, all outlets are biased in favor of easy-to-digest stories which can be explained entirely in a single sentence.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Crumpets on June 05, 2017, 12:40:57 AM
Also, this is apparently the Wikipedia article on the situation...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Qatar_Diplomatic_Crisis


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 05, 2017, 05:04:22 AM
Just read that Egypt and UAE have done the same. Crazy!

Egypt does everything Saudi wants.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on June 05, 2017, 05:17:11 AM
Just read that Egypt and UAE have done the same. Crazy!

Egypt does everything Saudi wants.

Almost everything. Egypt's unlikely to ban Egyptians from working there.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Angel of Death on June 05, 2017, 05:25:04 AM
My rule of thumb is that the goodless bad guys tend to be the side which Saudi Arabia isn't on.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 05, 2017, 05:45:49 AM
It's basically "you support terrorists we don't like instead of terrorists we like >:("


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Lord Halifax on June 05, 2017, 06:06:37 AM
My rule of thumb is that the goodless bad guys tend to be the side which Saudi Arabia isn't on.

Not valid if the other side is the Qataris.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Zinneke on June 05, 2017, 06:11:17 AM
My rule of thumb is that the goodless bad guys tend to be the side which Saudi Arabia isn't on.

Pure reductionist drivel.
In Syria, for example, Qatar funds al-Nusra, while SA funds a smaller islamist group that essentially acts as a proxy for their national interests.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 05, 2017, 07:33:30 AM
My rule of thumb is that the goodless bad guys tend to be the side which Saudi Arabia isn't on.

Pure reductionist drivel.
In Syria, for example, Qatar funds al-Nusra, while SA funds a smaller islamist group that essentially acts as a proxy for their national interests.


Saudi Arabia is essentially conducting a proxy war with Iran.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Zinneke on June 05, 2017, 07:37:56 AM
My rule of thumb is that the goodless bad guys tend to be the side which Saudi Arabia isn't on.

Pure reductionist drivel.
In Syria, for example, Qatar funds al-Nusra, while SA funds a smaller islamist group that essentially acts as a proxy for their national interests.


Saudi Arabia is essentially conducting a proxy war with Iran.

Yep, their national interest include countering Iran and Shia islam in the region via islamist proxies. That much is clear.
 
But while Qatar's interests are far more complex, they still fund just as dangerous groups.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 05, 2017, 10:26:37 AM
Let's not forget that in the middle of this mess the United States has their largest Mid-East naval base in Bahrain and their largest Mid-East air force base in Qatar. Plus the World Cup will be in Qatar in 5 years.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Cory on June 05, 2017, 11:22:19 AM
I'm hearing on Al-Jazeera (a Qatari biased source, but still) that the GCC are also imposing a air and naval "embargo" on them.

Wow, is this for real?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 05, 2017, 11:56:07 AM
The Yemen government and the Benghazi-based alternative Libyan government are joining in on the ban.

I wonder how long this will last? Qatar is completely delendent on outside resources for everything. Wouldn't it be terrifying if this was the new West Berlin, and Iran starts airlifting in aid?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 05, 2017, 12:16:28 PM
I don;t think there's much risk of annexation - Qatar may be playing both sides of the game, but I highly doubt their elite will go along with that; and I don't see any justication on the Iranian side (even a flims one like Russia in Crimea).

Buy yeah, I don't think it's totally alarmist to imagine that a hot war could very quickly merge all the active and frozen conflicts of MENA into that most terrifying of all prospects - a broad conflict between Iran and its proxies and Saudi Arabia and its proxies with everybody having to take sides.

good time to be investing in fracking tbh


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Zinneke on June 05, 2017, 12:38:48 PM
Iran already put out a statement saying it could deliver food aid within 12 hrs. I'm more concerned about this turning into an annexation a la '91 or a Cuban Missile quarantine crisis which is tantamount to a war. This could turn really hot very quickly. Bahrain is close by so the base might go on lockdown. Had some ppl I served with PCS there. Trump giving them the $100 bil promise really has up'd Saudi's ante.

There's no hot war, there's a US airbase there.
I doubt Qatar will want to rely on Iran, unless they've struck a deal on a joint gas pipeline. Far more likely allies are the Turks.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Zinneke on June 05, 2017, 12:54:39 PM
Surely the massive US military presence in Qatar rules out annexation?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 05, 2017, 01:02:09 PM
I wonder if Kuwait and Oman will be forced to take a side? Maybe the latter will get a get out clause becaue they always seem to think they're Switzerland or something, but Kuwait caused a lot of anger amongst the KSA with it's "why are we even fighting" shtick a few months or so back. (and apparantly from what has leaked Kuwait was often labeled just as much a prodigal son as Qatar).


fwiw the US will almost certainly back KSA over Qatar, troops or no troops.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Zinneke on June 05, 2017, 01:13:16 PM
Surely the massive US military presence in Qatar rules out annexation?


Naval Support Activity Bahrain is not a large base and deals mostly with small MCMs (minesweepers). The base just put out a statement saying nothing will change essentially status quo. The OIC is probably working with CENTCOM trying to figure out wth is going down, recall or not to recall, etc. I can tell you that if KSA decides to go all in, there is very little we could or would do.

I mean the airbase in Qatar.
Also US-Qatar relations were good, but I imagine this was brought up in Trump's KSA visit.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 05, 2017, 01:14:14 PM
If KSA, UAE, etc. block shipment, we could be looking at a naval engagement here.

Christ... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countdown_to_Looking_Glass)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Stranger in a strange land on June 05, 2017, 02:24:43 PM
Some fun facts:
+ 88% of the population of Qatar is non-citizen foreign workers
+ There are more Indians in Qatar than Qatari citizens
+ Qatar has a population of 2.6 million: no chance Iran could supply it with an airlift, especially considering the rather, er, extravagant standard of living that Qataris are [in]famous for.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on June 05, 2017, 02:43:10 PM
Surely the massive US military presence in Qatar rules out annexation?


The potential annexation wouldn't be by Iran, it would be by Saudi Arabia / UAE. I find the possibility that Trump would go along with that to be frighteningly likely. (How friendly/hostile has Al Jazeera's coverage of Trump been?) Heck, the Saudis probably got Trump to sign off (verbally, at least) on this during his visit.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Zinneke on June 05, 2017, 03:12:48 PM
Surely the massive US military presence in Qatar rules out annexation?


The potential annexation wouldn't be by Iran, it would be by Saudi Arabia / UAE. I find the possibility that Trump would go along with that to be frighteningly likely. (How friendly/hostile has Al Jazeera's coverage of Trump been?) Heck, the Saudis probably got Trump to sign off (verbally, at least) on this during his visit.

If anything KSA are profiting on the fact Trump has no idea what is going on in the ME right now and is relying on Tillerson when pretty much all the Near East policy adviser seats are empty.

But the fact the US still directly rely on Qatar for Afghan and Iraqi operations means I think at "worst" this is KSA trying to oust the current leadership through a coup rather than annexation and invasion, and at "best" its a response to Qatar violating some gentleman's agreement related to either Syria or the gas reserves with Iran, and that being the final straw for the Saudis after Qatari sponsoring of Arab Spring. KSA would not risk starting a hot war with Iran, it may have a bigger defense budget but it would not last a limited war with attrition and the internal strife.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on June 05, 2017, 04:22:19 PM
I wonder if it could be related to this. Saudi Arabia could be trying to fool dumbs into thinking that they never fund terrorists and that everything is Qatar's fault. Of course they're both to blame.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-urged-not-to-suppress-report-into-funding-of-jihadi-groups


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 05, 2017, 08:28:02 PM
Panic buying in Qatar now as shoppers stockpile food (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/06/qatar-panic-buying-as-shoppers-stockpile-food-due-to-saudi-blockade?CMP=share_btn_tw)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Lachi on June 05, 2017, 09:13:40 PM
I'm now wondering what will happen to the 2022 world cup. I hope they move it back to the rightful winner, Australia.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Iosif on June 06, 2017, 12:41:06 AM
Can anyone explain what is going on here?


The Saudis hate Muslim Brotherhood and the Quataris were big sponsors of them when they were relevant.

There's also Iran, which KSA always gets annoyed that its smaller cousins aren't sufficiently angry about (for reference: Qatar has the weird Islamist fetish that is more utopian unify the ummah than Saudis; UAE only care about money and Oman is in a strange halfway house due to geography and the fact it's brand of religion is different from bath sides).

There's also economic bickering about natural gas etc

That is a terrific summary.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 06, 2017, 08:31:30 AM
Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  1h

During my recent trip to the Middle East I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar - look!

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  16m

So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off. They said they would take a hard line on funding...

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  8m

...extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on June 06, 2017, 12:54:12 PM
Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  1h

During my recent trip to the Middle East I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar - look!

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  16m

So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off. They said they would take a hard line on funding...

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  8m

...extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar. Perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism!

And Trump sets fire to another US alliance carefully built over years.

Guess Qatar is kicking themselves for not plastering Trump's face all over their nation and not giving him a giant glowing orb to hold. Maybe it's not too late for them to change their name to Trumpistan?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 06, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
Qataris didn't give Trump an orb to hold? Low energy.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 06, 2017, 02:08:22 PM
Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  1h

During my recent trip to the Middle East I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar - look!

Naturally, it won't prevent wealthy Saudis to finance terrorists with the rulers turning a blind eye.

It almost looks like the U.S. along with stronger Arab nations simply picked a little country as a fall guy to show their anti-terrorist "credentials". Not that Qataris are innocent apples, but still.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on June 06, 2017, 03:10:11 PM
Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
Verified account
@realDonaldTrump  1h

During my recent trip to the Middle East I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar - look!

Naturally, it won't prevent wealthy Saudis to finance terrorists with the rulers turning a blind eye.

It almost looks like the U.S. along with stronger Arab nations simply picked a little country as a fall guy to show their anti-terrorist "credentials". Not that Qataris are innocent apples, but still.

Yeah... It makes me think of a cartoon I can't find. There are a bunch of wolves in ill-fitting sheep costumes, in front of a mob of angry sheep, all pointing fingers at at one un-disguised wolf saying "he did it!"


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 06, 2017, 03:23:30 PM
Jordan has jumped in too (http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/jordan/1.794162?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Pentagon: We can't square Trump's comments with our position on Qatar (http://thehill.com/policy/defense/336555-pentagon-cant-square-trump-comments-on-qatar)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 06, 2017, 03:40:00 PM
Jordan has jumped in too (http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/jordan/1.794162?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Atlas-style bandwagon effect.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: DavidB. on June 06, 2017, 04:43:43 PM

Jordan and Mauritania are just emptyquoting now.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 06, 2017, 05:14:58 PM
X post from aad:

At a guess, I assume this is how things went down:

1) trump's team both are stereotypically as anti Iranian as one would expect, but also contain more scepticism to the Gulf and its foreign influence than was previously expected from the GOP. This is a shift not limited to trump, with anti-Saudi, Emirati and Qatari narratives becoming fairly popular in even 'mainstream' 'establishment' circles.

2) Saudi does not want to lose its cover from the west, so when trump visited it basically blamed everything on Qatar. I.e. "oh we agree with your concerns on terrorism and we are dealing with it, but you know who isn't dealing with it? Qatar". This is not a completely unfair assessment - Qatari ideological influence on the islamic world is a lot more quasi-populist, revolutionary theology than Saudi promoted salafism which theologically is more rooted in ultra-conservatism" Trump would have been happy to hear this, especially as it neatly links in with his handlers' main concern of isolating Iran.

the global western establishment will be in two minds. One the one hand, they view Qatar as a pretty malignant influence, with a lot of delusions about its own significance and far more likely to disrupt 'useful' dictators and more open about funding jihadi proxies than Saudis are. On the other, this is a very risky move, which could cause the ultimate fear - a war between Iran and KSA, which at worst could cascade and bring in the entire Muslim world or even further, draw in Russia and USA to save their respective charges. (trumps relative detente with Russia would not last IMO)

I'm fairly interested on where Erdogan and Barzani will fall in such an escalation.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on June 06, 2017, 05:16:19 PM
ahaha ahaha ahahaha


wow


FIRST ON CNN: US suspects Russian hackers planted fake news behind Qatar crisis
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/russian-hackers-planted-fake-news-qatar-crisis/index.html

Quote
US investigators believe Russian hackers breached Qatar's state news agency and planted a fake news report that contributed to a crisis among the US' closest Gulf allies, according to US officials briefed on the investigation.

The FBI recently sent a team of investigators to Doha to help the Qatari government investigate the alleged hacking incident, Qatari and US government officials say.

Intelligence gathered by the US security agencies indicates that Russian hackers were behind the intrusion first reported by the Qatari government two weeks ago, US officials say. Qatar hosts one of the largest US military bases in the region.

The alleged involvement of Russian hackers intensifies concerns by US intelligence and law enforcement agencies that Russia continues to try some of the same cyber-hacking measures on US allies that intelligence agencies believe it used to meddle in the 2016 elections.

US officials say the Russian goal appears to be to cause rifts among the US and its allies. In recent months, suspected Russian cyber activities, including the use of fake news stories, have turned up amid elections in France, Germany and other countries


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on June 06, 2017, 09:59:58 PM
According to AlJ (yayaya, i know, not the best source right now), Saudi-Arabia demanded 10 points from Doha in the next 24 hours....otherwise there would be a form of punishment.

https://twitter.com/faisaledroos/status/872251817110806528

Part of the 10 points:

Ousting Hamas......no more funding for terrorist groups.....breaking up relationships with Iran......killing Al Jazeera (lol).....not meddling anymore in egyptian affairs.


This is not even rough diplomacy, this is sheer imperialism. arguably sparked by russian provocateurs.



Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on June 06, 2017, 10:29:41 PM
Ousting Hamas......no more funding for terrorist groups.....breaking up relationships with Iran......killing Al Jazeera (lol).....not meddling anymore in egyptian affairs.


Obviously they mean no more funding for terrorist groups that Saudi Arabia doesn't like. Lets not kid ourselves about Saudi Arabia.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on June 07, 2017, 01:00:29 AM
According to AlJ (yayaya, i know, not the best source right now), Saudi-Arabia demanded 10 points from Doha in the next 24 hours....otherwise there would be a form of punishment.

10 points.  That seems familiar (https://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/The_Austro-Hungarian_Ultimatum_to_Serbia_(English_translation)).  And it didn't even tale killing a Saudi royal to do it.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Lord Halifax on June 07, 2017, 02:34:44 AM
X post from aad:

At a guess, I assume this is how things went down:

1) trump's team both are stereotypically as anti Iranian as one would expect, but also contain more scepticism to the Gulf and its foreign influence than was previously expected from the GOP. This is a shift not limited to trump, with anti-Saudi, Emirati and Qatari narratives becoming fairly popular in even 'mainstream' 'establishment' circles.

2) Saudi does not want to lose its cover from the west, so when trump visited it basically blamed everything on Qatar. I.e. "oh we agree with your concerns on terrorism and we are dealing with it, but you know who isn't dealing with it? Qatar". This is not a completely unfair assessment - Qatari ideological influence on the islamic world is a lot more quasi-populist, revolutionary theology than Saudi promoted salafism which theologically is more rooted in ultra-conservatism" Trump would have been happy to hear this, especially as it neatly links in with his handlers' main concern of isolating Iran.

the global western establishment will be in two minds. One the one hand, they view Qatar as a pretty malignant influence, with a lot of delusions about its own significance and far more likely to disrupt 'useful' dictators and more open about funding jihadi proxies than Saudis are. On the other, this is a very risky move, which could cause the ultimate fear - a war between Iran and KSA, which at worst could cascade and bring in the entire Muslim world or even further, draw in Russia and USA to save their respective charges. (trumps relative detente with Russia would not last IMO)

I'm fairly interested on where Erdogan and Barzani will fall in such an escalation.

Within the Greater Middle East - not Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Central Asia, Black Muslim Africa etc. Maybe Pakistan, but even that is doubtful.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gass3268 on June 07, 2017, 08:11:54 AM
Turkey planning on moving troops to Qatar (http://in.reuters.com/article/gulf-qatar-turkey-idINKBN18Y1EJ?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5937ebef04d3016e689f4dc0&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: DavidB. on June 07, 2017, 08:19:23 AM
Wow, my opinion of Saudi Arabia is only going up! And without Trump these positive developments likely would not have happened.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on June 07, 2017, 08:21:52 AM
Wow, my opinion of Saudi Arabia is only going up! And without Trump these positive developments likely would not have happened.

well, you know as well as all of us, that the hamas/terrorist-subterfuge is only feint.

mostly this is making another arab war more likely, imho.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: DavidB. on June 07, 2017, 01:10:30 PM
Wow, my opinion of Saudi Arabia is only going up! And without Trump these positive developments likely would not have happened.
well, you know as well as all of us, that the hamas/terrorist-subterfuge is only feint.
Of course, but the diplomatic conflict is real. As long as these countries focus themselves on each other they don't focus themselves on Israel.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on June 07, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
Wow, my opinion of Saudi Arabia is only going up! And without Trump these positive developments likely would not have happened.
well, you know as well as all of us, that the hamas/terrorist-subterfuge is only feint.
Of course, but the diplomatic conflict is real. As long as these countries focus themselves on each other they don't focus themselves on Israel.
And if one of them actually manages to unite the Sunni Arabs? That has to be Israel's worst nightmare right now given how its current policies assume the Arabs will always remain divided and thus not pose an existential threat to Israel.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: DavidB. on June 07, 2017, 06:08:07 PM
And if one of them actually manages to unite the Sunni Arabs? That has to be Israel's worst nightmare right now given how its current policies assume the Arabs will always remain divided and thus not pose an existential threat to Israel.
Israel's policies assume none of that, they know better. But at this point it is less likely than ever for Jordan and Egypt to seek a conflict with Israel (intelligence cooperation goes rather deep, especially with Jordan), Qatar are Sunnis themselves, and uniting all Sunni Arabs is about as likely as uniting all Slavs.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: TDAS04 on June 07, 2017, 07:00:58 PM
Oman and Kuwait will probably maintain relations with Qatar, especially Oman.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on June 07, 2017, 09:23:52 PM
()


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on June 07, 2017, 11:23:28 PM
I really can't add anything to the discussion that tops this.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on June 08, 2017, 12:43:15 AM
And if one of them actually manages to unite the Sunni Arabs? That has to be Israel's worst nightmare right now given how its current policies assume the Arabs will always remain divided and thus not pose an existential threat to Israel.
Israel's policies assume none of that, they know better. But at this point it is less likely than ever for Jordan and Egypt to seek a conflict with Israel (intelligence cooperation goes rather deep, especially with Jordan), Qatar are Sunnis themselves, and uniting all Sunni Arabs is about as likely as uniting all Slavs.
I imagine the Habsburgs thought much the same. It doesn't mean that even a temporary unity wouldn't pose a threat to Israel. And its policies do very much assume that Israel will remain the most powerful country in the region forever. If they didn't, then the policy of turning the Arab portions of the West Bank into a bunch of fragmented Bantustans would make no sense. While that's not the officially stated policy, it is the effect of Israel's current settlement policy.

As for relations with Jordan, the Hashemites are always having to tread carefully due to its shaky economic circumstances.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 08, 2017, 04:43:13 AM
Oman and Kuwait will probably maintain relations with Qatar, especially Oman.

Oman is bit like Switzerland of the Arab world in a sense they're more or less staying away from regional dramas, notably Yemen and now Qatar. For years Oman, due to its good relations with both the U.S. and Iran, served as a middle ground where the two sides could communicate discreetly.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Tintrlvr on June 08, 2017, 01:52:15 PM
Oman and Kuwait will probably maintain relations with Qatar, especially Oman.

Oman is bit like Switzerland of the Arab world in a sense they're more or less staying away from regional dramas, notably Yemen and now Qatar. For years Oman, due to its good relations with both the U.S. and Iran, served as a middle ground where the two sides could communicate discreetly.

Also, being neither Sunni nor Shia, Oman does not have a bone to pick in the theological conflicts.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Morden on June 10, 2017, 04:49:42 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-ashcroft-idUSKBN1910T6

Quote
The government of Qatar has hired John Ashcroft, the U.S. attorney general during the Sept. 11 attacks, as it seeks to rebut accusations from U.S. President Donald Trump and its Arab neighbors that it supports terrorism.

Qatar will pay the Ashcroft Law Firm $2.5 million for a 90-day period as the country seeks to confirm its efforts to fight global terrorism and comply with financial regulations including U.S. Treasury rules, according to a Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, filing on Friday with the Justice Department.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on June 10, 2017, 11:32:52 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-ashcroft-idUSKBN1910T6

Quote
The government of Qatar has hired John Ashcroft, the U.S. attorney general during the Sept. 11 attacks, as it seeks to rebut accusations from U.S. President Donald Trump and its Arab neighbors that it supports terrorism.

Qatar will pay the Ashcroft Law Firm $2.5 million for a 90-day period as the country seeks to confirm its efforts to fight global terrorism and comply with financial regulations including U.S. Treasury rules, according to a Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, filing on Friday with the Justice Department.


They would be better off offering the Trump Organization a lucrative branding/management contract for a hotel and golf course complex.

I say that half in snark, half in sick seriousness.

Trump has demonstrated that he does not care about either the actual rule of law, nor about the quasi-legal SOP under which the US and its various appendages have traditionally operated. Unless Ashcroft has some relationship with Trump or his inner circle, Qatar is wasting its time.

Saudi Arabia is using Trump as a prop, and Qatar as a scapegoat, while pushing it's own agenda of Saudi supremacy in the ME.  And because the Saudi's flattered Trump (and it apparently plays well on the reality TV show Trump runs in his head) Qatar is up a creek.  This is exactly the sort of manipulation people were worried about with Trump. That it's coming from our putative ally instead of Russia doesn't make it much better.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Shadows on June 14, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
University of terror: The Jihadi school on Australia’s doorstep funded by Donald Trump’s friend Saudi Arabia


The Saudi Arabia-funded Institute for the Study of Islam and Arabic in Jakarta has produced some of Indonesia’s terrorist leaders. Known as LIPIA, the university segregates female from male students & enforces strict dress codes for both men and women and forbids music, television, wearing jeans and “loud laughter”. The hard line Islam taught at LIPIA approves of death for homosexual people and blasphemers, stoning for adulterers and the amputation of hands for thieves, reports Voice of America.The Boston Globe reports that LIPIA is the centre of Saudi Arabia’s campaign to convert Indonesians to Wahhabi Islam and the Salafi movement. Indonesia’s Muslim population — 202 million of its 258 million total, and including a 2.5 million Shia minority — were once regarded as largely tolerant and open-minded.

As well as the LIPIA university, Saudi Arabia has financially supported dozens of boarding schools and built 150 mosques. The schools have included jihadi breeding grounds like Al-Mukmin Islamic boarding school in Solo, Central Java. Salman agreed to allow more than 200,000 Indonesians make the hajj pilgrimage to Mecca in western Saudi Arabia, more than any other country. The hajj quota is hard won and precarious, and the Indonesian Government is reportedly reluctant to jeopardise the prize by interfering with the Saudis’ local influence.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/university-of-terror-the-jihadi-school-on-australias-doorstep-funded-by-donald-trumps-friend-saudi-arabia/news-story/267fcd2904925182cc3092833efff0f2


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: pbrower2a on June 14, 2017, 09:22:19 AM
Indonesia has long been a haven for 'moderate Islam'.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Shadows on June 14, 2017, 09:23:11 AM
Indonesia has long been a haven for 'moderate Islam'.

Compared to Saudi? Everything is world in relative unfortunately !


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on June 14, 2017, 09:26:39 AM
Indonesia has long been a haven for 'moderate Islam'.
The most populous Muslim nation is one of the safest. Just goes to show that Islam itself isn't the problem.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Beet on June 14, 2017, 09:29:26 AM
I thought India has more Muslims than any other country?

Anyway, Indonesia used to be very moderate, but is becoming radicalized. It's one of the new "problem states":

Saudi Arabia- moderating
Iran- moderating
Syria- moderating
Egypt- moderating

Turkey- extremizing
Indonesia- extremizing
Philippinnes- extremizing
Pakistan- extremizing

So basically, the problem is shifting from the Islamic world center to the periphery.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Morden on June 14, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
I thought India has more Muslims than any other country?

Nope.  Indonesia has more.  (And I think Pakistan might also have more?)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Zioneer on June 14, 2017, 05:26:06 PM
I thought India has more Muslims than any other country?

Anyway, Indonesia used to be very moderate, but is becoming radicalized. It's one of the new "problem states":

Saudi Arabia- moderating
Iran- moderating
Syria- moderating
Egypt- moderating

Turkey- extremizing
Indonesia- extremizing
Philippinnes- extremizing
Pakistan- extremizing

So basically, the problem is shifting from the Islamic world center to the periphery.
This radicalization across the world is partially the fault of radicals from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and so forth, of course.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: dead0man on June 14, 2017, 07:54:22 PM
It's interesting that the "model" moderate Muslim country committed a genocide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor_genocide) during my life time.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 14, 2017, 08:16:51 PM
It's interesting that the "model" moderate Muslim country committed a genocide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor_genocide) during my life time.

? This point makes no sense. Pointing out that Indoensian Islam has historically been less fundamentalist than Arabian Islam = defending Suharto? Not catching your drift.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on June 14, 2017, 09:31:28 PM
I have been saying for YEARS that Saudi Arabia is the biggest sponsor of radicalism and a HUGE part in allowing it to grow.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: dead0man on June 14, 2017, 09:39:41 PM
It's interesting that the "model" moderate Muslim country committed a genocide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor_genocide) during my life time.

? This point makes no sense. Pointing out that Indoensian Islam has historically been less fundamentalist than Arabian Islam = defending Suharto? Not catching your drift.
When people want to defend Islam they always bring up Indonesia as this example of moderate Islam and "see, not all of them are like that".  Yet they committed a genocide in the very very recent past.  How is this a good example in the defense of Islam?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 14, 2017, 10:04:46 PM
Nah, still not getting your point. The Indonesian invasion and occupation of Timor was on nationalistic grounds, not religious fervour. (Nationalism of course, being a far more deadly religion in the wrong hands than any of the old faiths). It's basically like saying "Christianity is soo violent because Europe invaded Africa and the U.S. invaded Vietnam" (yes, I know some people do say that, but they are foolish).

I mean, if you really want to pick holes on the moderate Indonesia thing, you'd find better evidence at the other end of the archipelago in Aceh. But when people say "Indonesia practices a more moderate form of Islam" they aren't saying Indonesia is some sort of forever peaceful place, just that religiously they are less conservative than the Arab practice. You're falling into a common trap of assuming "more secular" or "less fundamentalist" means "more liberal" or "less violent".


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 15, 2017, 07:40:58 AM
It's long been Saudis' modus operandi to spread their Wahhabi brand of Islam. I can think of no better example than Afghanistan and Pakistan in 1980s: "well, we'll build you refugee centers and give other humanitarian aid... oh, it would be very nice if you visit the madrasa we set up as a side project :) :) :)". It's the same mechanism.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: NewYorkExpress on June 15, 2017, 08:55:14 PM
Why are we (Americans) allies with Saudi Arabia again?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 16, 2017, 05:06:58 AM
Why are we (Americans) allies with Saudi Arabia again?

Oil?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on June 18, 2017, 04:16:52 AM
Quote
Saudi Arabia and Israel are holding talks to establish diplomatic ties, the Times reported on Saturday.According to American and Arab sources, the countries will begin with small measures like allowing Israeli aircraft to fly over Saudi airspace and permitting Israeli businesses to operate in the Gulf state, the UK-based Times reported.

A public alliance between the two countries would be the first of its kind though Israel did have a trade office in Doha before it was closed in 2009, during the Gaza war. Saudi sources denied that the Gulf state is improving its ties with Israel, the report stated.

The talks come amid an ongoing diplomatic crisis between Qatar and the Arab Gulf states over accusations of terrorist funding.

While Israel and Saudi Arabia have no diplomatic ties, they are seen as sharing regional security interests particularly over Iran. Israel has long viewed the Islamic Republic as one of its main threats in the region, while Sunni Saudi Arabia considers the Shi'ite nation as a contender for dominance in the Middle East.


https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/148097-170617-saudi-arabia-and-israel-holding-talks-to-establishing-diplomatic-ties (https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/148097-170617-saudi-arabia-and-israel-holding-talks-to-establishing-diplomatic-ties)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on June 18, 2017, 04:32:40 AM
Israel definitely seems to prefer Wahhabi terrorists to Iran.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 18, 2017, 05:26:00 AM
Israel definitely seems to prefer Wahhabi terrorists to Iran.

Geopolitical situation in the region effectively precludes Israel from prefeering Iran and vice versa, which is ironic since you can talk about a Jewish community in Iran, as opposed to KSA.

I believe there were quote close ties between Israel and Iran during the Pahlavi era.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Santander on June 18, 2017, 04:00:35 PM
Things have been building towards this for a while.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Green Line on June 18, 2017, 04:04:10 PM
That would be great news.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on June 18, 2017, 04:36:14 PM
Interesting (and overall good news) if true.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas on June 18, 2017, 05:11:10 PM
Barack Obama's legacy in the world of peacemaking bears fruit!


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: TheSaint250 on June 18, 2017, 08:23:12 PM
So the Saudis have finally grown up


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on June 18, 2017, 08:26:48 PM

Trust me, it isn't because they want to have diplomatic ties with Israel, they and the Arab world really don't, it's 99.99% for an anti-Iranian alliance, once it's finished, the ties will be off and Saudi Arabia will be calling for sanctions again.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: dead0man on June 18, 2017, 08:29:21 PM
This would have happened a long time ago if they could sell it to the natives, and that's why they are denying it publicly and will as long as they possibly can....if it even comes to anything.  Seems like we've heard this story before.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Famous Mortimer on June 18, 2017, 09:11:08 PM
Smart move. This will make the (even more) Islamist opposition go crazy. If the opposition goes crazier, it will force the Americans to back the current regime even more.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: DavidB. on June 18, 2017, 09:11:59 PM
Would be excellent. Thanks, Obama!


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 18, 2017, 09:18:06 PM
Smart move. This will make the (even more) Islamist opposition go crazy. If the opposition goes crazier, it will force the Americans to back the current regime even more.

Geostrategically though it might be a failure, considering they always want to be considered the leader of the Islamic world or whatever. I mean, everybody knows the Arab leaders give far less of a crap about the Palestinian people than the Israeli leaders (which is already a minimal amount of crap).

And let's face it - Americans have never been above using and allying with islamists.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: SATW on June 19, 2017, 12:08:30 AM
Excellent news, if true :)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. MB on June 20, 2017, 10:23:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu7rap9jVqs


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: The Mikado on June 20, 2017, 11:21:29 PM
Prince Muhammad ibn Nayef ibn Abdulaziz, nephew of King Salman, is being replaced as heir to the throne of KSA by Muhammad ibn Salman ibd Abdulaziz, son of King Salman. This is a potential consolidation of power by Salman into his own line. Currently, any male direct descendant of Abdulaziz ibn Saud is eligible to the throne...Salman seems to be trying to elevate his own children over the rest of the thousands-strong extended family.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on June 20, 2017, 11:26:48 PM
Any meaningful political difference between the two? I assume not.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: NewYorkExpress on June 20, 2017, 11:27:13 PM
We need a Saudi Arabia megathread.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: The Mikado on June 21, 2017, 01:29:55 AM
Any meaningful political difference between the two? I assume not.

Meaningful difference in terms of ideology? None seems readily apparent.

Only difference is if this really does turn into a sign that Salman is freezing his thousands and thousands of nephews out of real power in favor of his kids.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: Blue3 on June 21, 2017, 02:05:27 AM
He's hailed in some websites as a technocratic reformer, planning for a post-oil Saudi economy and Westernization... plus the Yemen mess.

Who wants to bet he will be the last king of Saudi Arabia?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on June 21, 2017, 02:26:10 AM
He's hailed in some websites as a technocratic reformer, planning for a post-oil Saudi economy and Westernization... plus the Yemen mess.

Who wants to bet he will be the last king of Saudi Arabia?

That wouldn't be hard on account of being only 31.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 22, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
I guess Salman is the most competent Saudi ruler since Faisal (well, other than Abdullah those in between were jokes).


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on June 23, 2017, 06:19:27 AM
The Saudis have upped the stakes in their war with Qatar.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40378221 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40378221)

I don't know why they want to make Qatar into a Irano-Turkish client state, but that will be the net effect I think.  At least with the Iranians, Qatar will be able to preserve the illusion of independence, while capitulation would effectively make it Saudi Arabia's fourteenth region. Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani can't capitulate to these demands without losing everything the Thanis have been striving for over the last two centuries.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 23, 2017, 09:08:09 AM
Yeah that isn't a list that suggests the Saudis are interested in compromise. It is now far more likely than not that qatar will be expelled from GCC and become an Iranian ally.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Lord Halifax on June 23, 2017, 09:57:01 AM
Yeah that isn't a list that suggests the Saudis are interested in compromise. It is now far more likely than not that qatar will be expelled from GCC and become an Iranian ally.

How about Saudi military occupation and integration into Saudi-Arabia?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Santander on June 23, 2017, 09:58:30 AM
Yeah that isn't a list that suggests the Saudis are interested in compromise. It is now far more likely than not that qatar will be expelled from GCC and become an Iranian ally.

How about Saudi military occupation and integration into Saudi-Arabia?
If Saudis can annex Qatar, we should recognize Russia taking Crimea back from Ukraine.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 23, 2017, 12:17:49 PM
Yeah that isn't a list that suggests the Saudis are interested in compromise. It is now far more likely than not that qatar will be expelled from GCC and become an Iranian ally.

How about Saudi military occupation and integration into Saudi-Arabia?

Possible for the former, quite unlikely for the latter case. Irredentism is a big move in this day and age.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on June 23, 2017, 06:15:31 PM
Yeah that isn't a list that suggests the Saudis are interested in compromise. It is now far more likely than not that qatar will be expelled from GCC and become an Iranian ally.

How about Saudi military occupation and integration into Saudi-Arabia?

Possible for the former, quite unlikely for the latter case. Irredentism is a big move in this day and age.
^They'll establish a puppet regime.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on June 23, 2017, 07:00:36 PM
i was sceptical about going all-in against iran, i am super-sceptical of provoking turkey.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Green Line on June 23, 2017, 09:23:02 PM
The US should not be a passive obsever in this.  We have a duty to keep the peace.  If Saudia Rabia attacks, we need to intervene. 


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: publicunofficial on June 24, 2017, 03:04:31 AM
Quote
Ashley Killough‏ Verified account @KilloughCNN

As Al Jazeera America tried asking Trump a Q tonight, he said, "you guys are out of business!" and moved on.

()

That's assuring.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 24, 2017, 07:34:42 AM
Quote
Ashley Killough‏ Verified account @KilloughCNN

As Al Jazeera America tried asking Trump a Q tonight, he said, "you guys are out of business!" and moved on.

()

That's assuring.

Just Al Jazeera or Qatar in general?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on June 24, 2017, 05:10:30 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html)

Interestingly, McDonald's, Burger King, and Domino's all "swore allegiance" to Crown Prince Salman.

I didn't know any of these eateries were in Saudi Arabia.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Santander on June 24, 2017, 05:15:56 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html)

Interestingly, McDonald's, Burger King, and Domino's all "swore allegiance" to Crown Prince Salman.

I didn't know any of these eateries were in Saudi Arabia.
Fast food and shopping malls are what pass for culture these days in most Gulf states.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Zioneer on June 24, 2017, 07:37:40 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html)

Interestingly, McDonald's, Burger King, and Domino's all "swore allegiance" to Crown Prince Salman.

I didn't know any of these eateries were in Saudi Arabia.

Burger King swore allegiance to a Crown Prince? A king can't be a vassal of a prince!


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: SoLongAtlas on June 26, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
Well we know for sure now, he truly will be the Burger King.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Santander on June 26, 2017, 12:40:48 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/24/mcdonalds-in-saudi-arabia-just-swore-allegiance-to-the-new-crown-prince.html)

Interestingly, McDonald's, Burger King, and Domino's all "swore allegiance" to Crown Prince Salman.

I didn't know any of these eateries were in Saudi Arabia.

Burger King swore allegiance to a Crown Prince? A king can't be a vassal of a prince!
Perhaps they're actually Burghers?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on June 26, 2017, 05:04:38 PM
Quote
Ashley Killough‏ Verified account @KilloughCNN

As Al Jazeera America tried asking Trump a Q tonight, he said, "you guys are out of business!" and moved on.

()

That's assuring.

Trump helping to destabilize the Middle East because he doesn't like the coverage he got from Al Jazeera seems par for the course.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on July 03, 2017, 11:27:33 PM
Deposed bin Nayef confined to his palace.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/world/middleeast/deposed-saudi-prince-mohammed-bin-nayef.html

The Saudi monarchy has obviously never been democratic, but these look like the latest moves in a slow-motion coup by Salman's branch of the family.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on July 05, 2017, 03:27:55 AM
Deposed bin Nayef confined to his palace.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/world/middleeast/deposed-saudi-prince-mohammed-bin-nayef.html

The Saudi monarchy has obviously never been democratic, but these look like the latest moves in a slow-motion coup by Salman's branch of the family.

He's obviously consolidating power, and this is obviously related to the Qatar thing, too.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on July 14, 2017, 08:00:04 AM
Abdul-Rahman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud bites the dust.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on July 30, 2017, 06:10:54 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3)

Quote
DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's foreign minister called what he said was Qatar's demand for an internationalization of the Muslim hajj pilgrimage a declaration of war against the kingdom, Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television said on Sunday, but Qatar said it never made such a call.

"Qatar's demands to internationalize the holy sites is aggressive and a declaration of war against the kingdom," Adel al-Jubeir was quoted saying on Al Arabiya's website.

"We reserve the right to respond to anyone who is working on the internationalization of the holy sites," he said.

Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani said no official from his country had made such a call.

"We are tired of responding to false information and stories invented from nothing," Sheikh Mohammed told Al Jazeera TV.

Sounds to me like the Saudis don't want to negotiate...how much longer before they send troops into Qatar?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Zioneer on July 30, 2017, 08:31:34 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3)

Quote
DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's foreign minister called what he said was Qatar's demand for an internationalization of the Muslim hajj pilgrimage a declaration of war against the kingdom, Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television said on Sunday, but Qatar said it never made such a call.

"Qatar's demands to internationalize the holy sites is aggressive and a declaration of war against the kingdom," Adel al-Jubeir was quoted saying on Al Arabiya's website.

"We reserve the right to respond to anyone who is working on the internationalization of the holy sites," he said.

Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani said no official from his country had made such a call.

"We are tired of responding to false information and stories invented from nothing," Sheikh Mohammed told Al Jazeera TV.

Sounds to me like the Saudis don't want to negotiate...how much longer before they send troops into Qatar?
It sounds like the Saudis just want a fight with Qatar, regardless of what they do.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on July 30, 2017, 11:01:12 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3)

Quote
DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's foreign minister called what he said was Qatar's demand for an internationalization of the Muslim hajj pilgrimage a declaration of war against the kingdom, Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television said on Sunday, but Qatar said it never made such a call.

"Qatar's demands to internationalize the holy sites is aggressive and a declaration of war against the kingdom," Adel al-Jubeir was quoted saying on Al Arabiya's website.

"We reserve the right to respond to anyone who is working on the internationalization of the holy sites," he said.

Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani said no official from his country had made such a call.

"We are tired of responding to false information and stories invented from nothing," Sheikh Mohammed told Al Jazeera TV.

Sounds to me like the Saudis don't want to negotiate...how much longer before they send troops into Qatar?
It sounds like the Saudis just want a fight with Qatar, regardless of what they do.

Picking new fights to distract from the fights they're losing is not a good strategy. Starting a war with Qatar would be like Hitler invading Spain after failing to take Moscow.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on July 31, 2017, 09:08:19 PM
The Saudis will just annex Qatar if they go down that road, it would be easy for them to do it. The Saudis now think that they should have control over the entire area. The Omanis don't really care but everyone else is in bed with the Saudis because of the fear of Iran and more riyals coming their way for "projects, development", etc.
Don't be ridiculous.  If the Saudis go down that path, they won't annex, they'll install their own puppet Al-Thani.  With hundreds if not thousands of Al-Thanis and no requirement for primogeniture, they should be able to find at least one puppet willing to have the Saudi hand up their backside.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Simfan34 on August 08, 2017, 05:01:32 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-haj-idUSKBN1AF0L3)

Quote
DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's foreign minister called what he said was Qatar's demand for an internationalization of the Muslim hajj pilgrimage a declaration of war against the kingdom, Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television said on Sunday, but Qatar said it never made such a call.

"Qatar's demands to internationalize the holy sites is aggressive and a declaration of war against the kingdom," Adel al-Jubeir was quoted saying on Al Arabiya's website.

"We reserve the right to respond to anyone who is working on the internationalization of the holy sites," he said.

Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani said no official from his country had made such a call.

"We are tired of responding to false information and stories invented from nothing," Sheikh Mohammed told Al Jazeera TV.

Sounds to me like the Saudis don't want to negotiate...how much longer before they send troops into Qatar?
It sounds like the Saudis just want a fight with Qatar, regardless of what they do.

Picking new fights to distract from the fights they're losing is not a good strategy. Starting a war with Qatar would be like Hitler invading Spain after failing to take Moscow.

Where have I heard that one before?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on August 20, 2017, 06:56:20 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-carrier-qatar-approved-hajj-flights-49322865 (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-carrier-qatar-approved-hajj-flights-49322865)

Quote

Saudi Arabia said Sunday its aircraft have not been given permission to land in Doha to pick up Qatari pilgrims for the annual hajj after the king authorized flights to transport people to Mecca.

Saudi Arabia reopened its border with Qatar last week to allow Qataris to attend the hajj amid a monthslong rift between the neighboring countries. King Salman also authorized Saudi planes to transport pilgrims at his expense. Already, more than 100 Qataris have crossed into Saudi Arabia since the border was opened.

But Saleh al-Jasser, the general manger of Saudi Arabian Airlines, was quoted by Saudi state TV as saying Qatari authorities have not authorized the kingdom's aircraft to land in the capital, despite a request submitted several days ago to transport Qatari pilgrims from Hamad International Airport in Doha.

Qatar's foreign minister said his country welcomed the decision to facilitate the hajj for Qataris, however the moves do not appear to have been coordinated with Qatar's government.

In early June, Saudi Arabia sealed Qatar's only land border. The kingdom, along with the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Egypt also cut all diplomatic and transport links with Qatar, including barring direct flights between the countries. They also blocked Qatari flights from using their airspace.

The Qatar-based Al Jazeera reported that the small Gulf country filed a complaint to the International Civil Aviation Organization against attempts to "terrorize" travelers flying on Qatari Airways.

The complaint pointed to a report by the Saudi-owned Al Arabiya news channel that shows a simulation of a fighter jet forcing a Qatar Airways flight to land if it enters the quartet's airspace. The video says that these countries have the right to use force if necessary, and shows a bomb striking an unmarked aircraft.


So now who's the "villain"?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Green Line on August 20, 2017, 07:02:12 PM
Still Saudi Arabia ^


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on August 23, 2017, 01:15:49 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41027177 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41027177)

Quote
Saudi police have released without charge a 14-year-old boy who was detained after a video of him dancing the Macarena on a busy road went viral.

The interior ministry said the teenager had signed a pledge that he would "not engage in behavior that could endanger his life and the life of others again".

It did not name him, but said he was a national of another Arab state.

In the 45-second clip filmed last year, he is seen disrupting traffic on a five-lane road in the city of Jeddah.

Wearing a pair of headphones, he moves his hips and arms to the 1990s hit.


On Tuesday, after the footage resurfaced and was shared widely on social media, the teenager was summoned by police in the city of Mecca for questioning about his "improper public behavior".

The decision was denounced by many on Twitter as a "violation of childhood" and on Wednesday the interior ministry said the boy had been released from custody after signing the written pledge

I didn't know the Macarena was against Sharia law...


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on August 24, 2017, 03:12:58 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41027177 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41027177)

Quote
Saudi police have released without charge a 14-year-old boy who was detained after a video of him dancing the Macarena on a busy road went viral.

The interior ministry said the teenager had signed a pledge that he would "not engage in behavior that could endanger his life and the life of others again".

It did not name him, but said he was a national of another Arab state.

In the 45-second clip filmed last year, he is seen disrupting traffic on a five-lane road in the city of Jeddah.

Wearing a pair of headphones, he moves his hips and arms to the 1990s hit.


On Tuesday, after the footage resurfaced and was shared widely on social media, the teenager was summoned by police in the city of Mecca for questioning about his "improper public behavior".

The decision was denounced by many on Twitter as a "violation of childhood" and on Wednesday the interior ministry said the boy had been released from custody after signing the written pledge

I didn't know the Macarena was against Sharia law...

Reminds me of Whoops Apocalypse, when hardline elements toppled the Saudi Royal family and commenced a purge of "pro-western revisionism."

"Executed for entering the mosque on his unicycle, and refereeing to prophet Muhammad as 'spatz'."


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on September 02, 2017, 03:03:01 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/02/great-saudi-sell-off-bankers-lawyers-flocking-gulf


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on September 10, 2017, 07:37:29 PM
http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ (http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/)

Quote
Fresh evidence submitted in a major 9/11 lawsuit moving forward against the Saudi Arabian government reveals its embassy in Washington may have funded a “dry run” for the hijackings carried out by two Saudi employees, further reinforcing the claim employees and agents of the kingdom directed and aided the 9/11 hijackers and plotters.

Two years before the airliner attacks, the Saudi Embassy paid for two Saudi nationals, living undercover in the US as students, to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks,” alleges the amended complaint filed on behalf of the families of some 1,400 victims who died in the terrorist attacks 16 years ago.

The court filing provides new details that paint “a pattern of both financial and operational support” for the 9/11 conspiracy from official Saudi sources, lawyers for the plaintiffs say. In fact, the Saudi government may have been involved in underwriting the attacks from the earliest stages — including testing cockpit security.

George Bush should have invaded Saudi Arabia in 2003, not Iraq, IMO.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Frozen Sky Ever Why on September 10, 2017, 08:51:14 PM
http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ (http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/)

Quote
Fresh evidence submitted in a major 9/11 lawsuit moving forward against the Saudi Arabian government reveals its embassy in Washington may have funded a “dry run” for the hijackings carried out by two Saudi employees, further reinforcing the claim employees and agents of the kingdom directed and aided the 9/11 hijackers and plotters.

Two years before the airliner attacks, the Saudi Embassy paid for two Saudi nationals, living undercover in the US as students, to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks,” alleges the amended complaint filed on behalf of the families of some 1,400 victims who died in the terrorist attacks 16 years ago.

The court filing provides new details that paint “a pattern of both financial and operational support” for the 9/11 conspiracy from official Saudi sources, lawyers for the plaintiffs say. In fact, the Saudi government may have been involved in underwriting the attacks from the earliest stages — including testing cockpit security.

George Bush should have invaded Saudi Arabia in 2003, not Iraq, IMO.


But Israel didn't want war with Saudi Arabia.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on September 10, 2017, 09:22:09 PM
http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ (http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/)

Quote
Fresh evidence submitted in a major 9/11 lawsuit moving forward against the Saudi Arabian government reveals its embassy in Washington may have funded a “dry run” for the hijackings carried out by two Saudi employees, further reinforcing the claim employees and agents of the kingdom directed and aided the 9/11 hijackers and plotters.

Two years before the airliner attacks, the Saudi Embassy paid for two Saudi nationals, living undercover in the US as students, to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks,” alleges the amended complaint filed on behalf of the families of some 1,400 victims who died in the terrorist attacks 16 years ago.

The court filing provides new details that paint “a pattern of both financial and operational support” for the 9/11 conspiracy from official Saudi sources, lawyers for the plaintiffs say. In fact, the Saudi government may have been involved in underwriting the attacks from the earliest stages — including testing cockpit security.

George Bush should have invaded Saudi Arabia in 2003, not Iraq, IMO.


But Israel didn't want war with Saudi Arabia.

Screw that...America was attacked on 9/11, not Israel, so they couldn't tell us what to do in that particular instance.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: I spent the winter writing songs about getting better on September 11, 2017, 03:58:07 PM
Invading Saudi Arabia would mean occupying Mecca and Medina. Yeah I totally don't see any massive issues in regards to that.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: SoLongAtlas on September 12, 2017, 09:48:50 AM
20 clerics arrested over seemingly favoring peace with Yemen http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/two-prominent-saudi-dissident-clerics-prince-others-arrested-770745310

Also rumors Salman intends to abdicate in favor of MBS. Huge if true.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on September 12, 2017, 09:56:01 AM
http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ (http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/)

Quote
Fresh evidence submitted in a major 9/11 lawsuit moving forward against the Saudi Arabian government reveals its embassy in Washington may have funded a “dry run” for the hijackings carried out by two Saudi employees, further reinforcing the claim employees and agents of the kingdom directed and aided the 9/11 hijackers and plotters.

Two years before the airliner attacks, the Saudi Embassy paid for two Saudi nationals, living undercover in the US as students, to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks,” alleges the amended complaint filed on behalf of the families of some 1,400 victims who died in the terrorist attacks 16 years ago.

The court filing provides new details that paint “a pattern of both financial and operational support” for the 9/11 conspiracy from official Saudi sources, lawyers for the plaintiffs say. In fact, the Saudi government may have been involved in underwriting the attacks from the earliest stages — including testing cockpit security.

George Bush should have invaded Saudi Arabia in 2003, not Iraq, IMO.


But Israel didn't want war with Saudi Arabia.

They weren't delighted about the war in Iraq either, iirc.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: SoLongAtlas on September 26, 2017, 02:47:20 PM
Women will now be able to drive in SA as of next year https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-women-drive.html


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Beet on September 26, 2017, 04:17:25 PM
Women will now be able to drive in SA as of next year https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-women-drive.html

Before the end of the century, women will have more rights in SA than in Israel.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Frozen Sky Ever Why on September 26, 2017, 04:58:43 PM
http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ (http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/)

Quote
Fresh evidence submitted in a major 9/11 lawsuit moving forward against the Saudi Arabian government reveals its embassy in Washington may have funded a “dry run” for the hijackings carried out by two Saudi employees, further reinforcing the claim employees and agents of the kingdom directed and aided the 9/11 hijackers and plotters.

Two years before the airliner attacks, the Saudi Embassy paid for two Saudi nationals, living undercover in the US as students, to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks,” alleges the amended complaint filed on behalf of the families of some 1,400 victims who died in the terrorist attacks 16 years ago.

The court filing provides new details that paint “a pattern of both financial and operational support” for the 9/11 conspiracy from official Saudi sources, lawyers for the plaintiffs say. In fact, the Saudi government may have been involved in underwriting the attacks from the earliest stages — including testing cockpit security.

George Bush should have invaded Saudi Arabia in 2003, not Iraq, IMO.


But Israel didn't want war with Saudi Arabia.

They weren't delighted about the war in Iraq either, iirc.

Netanyahu personally testified to Congress in favor of it.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Tintrlvr on September 26, 2017, 05:08:01 PM
http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/ (http://nypost.com/2017/09/09/saudi-government-allegedly-funded-a-dry-run-for-911/)

Quote
Fresh evidence submitted in a major 9/11 lawsuit moving forward against the Saudi Arabian government reveals its embassy in Washington may have funded a “dry run” for the hijackings carried out by two Saudi employees, further reinforcing the claim employees and agents of the kingdom directed and aided the 9/11 hijackers and plotters.

Two years before the airliner attacks, the Saudi Embassy paid for two Saudi nationals, living undercover in the US as students, to fly from Phoenix to Washington “in a dry run for the 9/11 attacks,” alleges the amended complaint filed on behalf of the families of some 1,400 victims who died in the terrorist attacks 16 years ago.

The court filing provides new details that paint “a pattern of both financial and operational support” for the 9/11 conspiracy from official Saudi sources, lawyers for the plaintiffs say. In fact, the Saudi government may have been involved in underwriting the attacks from the earliest stages — including testing cockpit security.

George Bush should have invaded Saudi Arabia in 2003, not Iraq, IMO.


But Israel didn't want war with Saudi Arabia.

They weren't delighted about the war in Iraq either, iirc.

Netanyahu personally testified to Congress in favor of it.

Sharon made him do it as a private citizen rather than in his capacity as Foreign Minister, though.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Santander on September 26, 2017, 05:44:31 PM
Women will now be able to drive in SA as of next year https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-women-drive.html

Before the end of the century, women will have more rights in SA than in Israel.

What is this even supposed to mean?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Chunk Yogurt for President! on September 27, 2017, 01:11:20 PM
Women will now be able to drive in SA as of next year https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-women-drive.html

Before the end of the century, women will have more rights in SA than in Israel.

What is this even supposed to mean?

I don't know, but it doesn't make sense.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on September 27, 2017, 01:45:31 PM
Women will now be able to drive in SA as of next year https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-women-drive.html

Before the end of the century, women will have more rights in SA than in Israel.

What is this even supposed to mean?

It means that Beet is bored enough to try on a new outfit: the "I'm not anti-Semitic but..." look.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: JonHawk on September 27, 2017, 09:33:29 PM
One of my favourite Twitter hot takes:

()


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Dr. MB on September 27, 2017, 10:33:10 PM
A good step forward but SA is still crazy. It will take decades for them to repeal all their backwards laws. The Wikipedia page says the main reasons women couldn't drive until now were mostly so they don't interact with men outside their family.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on September 27, 2017, 10:39:09 PM
Fun fact: the hyper gender segregation in KSA has prompted a disprortionate rate of same-sex experimentation, something that would delight the spirit of al-Wahhab surely.

A good step forward but SA is still crazy. It will take decades for them to repeal all their backwards laws. The Wikipedia page says the main reasons women couldn't drive until now were mostly so they don't interact with men outside their family.

I mean, for starters you'd have to remove the parasitic layer of royals; and once that occurs the country won't really be Saudi Arabia anymore.

I have no hope for this current "reformist" princling - the economics seem to be based on a huge privatisation splurge proving a few gazillion dollars of revenue (which will be wasted) and a few token superficial reforms to appease the West.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: SATW on September 28, 2017, 02:39:42 PM
Women will now be able to drive in SA as of next year https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-women-drive.html

Before the end of the century, women will have more rights in SA than in Israel.

Absolute gibberish.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on September 29, 2017, 01:18:13 AM
One of my favourite Twitter hot takes:

()

That's not really a hot take considering that it's basically true, but this James Martin character (am I supposed to know who he is?) reeks of #Resistance Twitter so I'm inclined to endorse your clowning of him.

He's implying that woman are somehow better off in the last country in the world to allow women to drive than the United States.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on October 26, 2017, 08:58:52 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/saudi-arabia-bestows-humanoid-robot-citizenship-article-1.3591719 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/saudi-arabia-bestows-humanoid-robot-citizenship-article-1.3591719)

Quote
A humanoid named Sophia has made history by becoming the first robot in the world to be granted citizenship.

Saudi Arabia on Wednesday offered citizenship to the robot, designed by entrepreneur David Hanson.

Journalist Andrew Ross Sorkin made the announcement at the tail end of an interview with Sophia at The Future Investment Initiative in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

“We just learned, Sophia, I hope you’re listening to me, that you have been now awarded what is going to be the first Saudi citizenship for a Robot,” he said to applause from the audience.


Sophia responded, without missing a beat: “I want to thank very much the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”

“I am very proud and honored for this unique distinction. This is historical to be the first robot in the world to be recognized with a citizenship,” the robot said.

The particulars of the citizenship were not discussed, and it’s not clear if Sophia will have the same rights as a human Saudi Arabian citizen.

I honestly thought this was a stunt Japan or South Korea would pull, not Saudi Arabia.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on October 30, 2017, 01:57:44 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/30/saudi-arabia-to-extract-uranium-for-self-sufficient-nuclear-program.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/30/saudi-arabia-to-extract-uranium-for-self-sufficient-nuclear-program.html)

Quote
Saudi Arabia will extract uranium domestically as a step towards “self-sufficiency” in producing atomic fuel, a senior government official said Monday.





Hashim bin Abdullah Yamani, head of the Saudi government agency tasked with the nuclear plans, told Reuters that the move makes sense from an economic point of view.

In a speech at an international nuclear power conference in Abu Dhabi, Yamani did not specify whether Saudi Arabia seeks to also enrich and reprocess uranium—steps that are much more sensitive because they can open up the possibility of military uses.




The world’s largest oil exporter said it wants to tap atomic power for peaceful purposes only in order to diversify its energy supply, Reuters reported.

I doubt anyone else in the region (especially Iran and Israel) believe this one bit.


Title: Saudi Arabia Says It Intercepts Missile Close To Capital
Post by: Beet on November 04, 2017, 07:19:05 PM
RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia’s air defense intercepted a missile, fired from Yemen, close to the capital Riyadh on Saturday, Al Arabiya TV reported.

State-owned Al Ekhbariya TV said it was brought down north of King Khaled Airport and there were no casualties reported.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/saudi-arabia-says-it-intercepts-missile-close-to-capital_us_59fe1136e4b0c9652fffa794?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia Says It Intercepts Missile Close To Capital
Post by: Zioneer on November 05, 2017, 02:50:28 AM
Convient for the Crown Prince then, because he was purging his political opponents (http://nypost.com/2017/11/04/top-saudi-royal-ousted-princes-arrested-in-anti-corruption-probe/) at the same time this happened


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia Says It Intercepts Missile Close To Capital
Post by: dead0man on November 05, 2017, 09:24:42 AM
one missile fired at a country is news now?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia Says It Intercepts Missile Close To Capital
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on November 05, 2017, 11:20:23 AM
one missile fired at a country is news now?

When the victims of America and its allies fire back, it's always been news.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on November 05, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Strange occurrences in the desert.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on November 05, 2017, 07:50:57 PM
Saudi Prince Mansour bin Muqrin dies in helicopter crash

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/11/06/Saudi-Prince-Mansour-bin-Muqrin-dies-in-helicopter-crash.html

Mansour bin Muqrin was the son of Muqrin bin Abdulaziz, who was the Crown Prince (heir apparent) after the death of King Abdullah and his succession by the current King, Salman. Salman removed him three months after coming to the throne.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: NewYorkExpress on November 05, 2017, 08:03:41 PM
Saudi Prince Mansour bin Muqrin dies in helicopter crash

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/11/06/Saudi-Prince-Mansour-bin-Muqrin-dies-in-helicopter-crash.html

Mansour bin Muqrin was the son of Muqrin bin Abdulaziz, who was the Crown Prince (heir apparent) after the death of King Abdullah and his succession by the current King, Salman. Salman removed him three months after coming to the throne.


That doesn't seem suspicious at all (sarcasm)


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Wahhabists Made to Heel
Post by: Frodo on November 06, 2017, 09:00:50 AM
Finally (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-wahhabism-salafism-mohammed-bin-salman.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news):

Saudi Prince, Asserting Power, Brings Clerics to Heel

Quote
For decades, Saudi Arabia’s religious establishment wielded tremendous power, with bearded enforcers policing public behavior, prominent sheikhs defining right and wrong, and religious associations using the kingdom’s oil wealth to promote their intolerant interpretation of Islam around the world.

Now, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is curbing their power as part of his drive to impose his control on the kingdom and press for a more open brand of Islam.

Before the arrests on Saturday of his fellow royals and former ministers on corruption allegations, Prince Mohammed had stripped the religious police of their arrest powers and expanded the space for women in public life, including promising them the right to drive.

Dozens of hard-line clerics have been detained, while others were designated to speak publicly about respect for other religions, a topic once anathema to the kingdom’s religious apparatus.

If the changes take hold, they could mean a historic reordering of the Saudi state by diminishing the role of hard-line clerics in shaping policy. That shift could reverberate abroad by moderating the exportation of the kingdom’s uncompromising version of Islam, Wahhabism, which has been accused of fueling intolerance and terrorism.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Wahhabists Made to Heel
Post by: NewYorkExpress on November 06, 2017, 02:27:53 PM
Finally (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-wahhabism-salafism-mohammed-bin-salman.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news):

Saudi Prince, Asserting Power, Brings Clerics to Heel

Quote
For decades, Saudi Arabia’s religious establishment wielded tremendous power, with bearded enforcers policing public behavior, prominent sheikhs defining right and wrong, and religious associations using the kingdom’s oil wealth to promote their intolerant interpretation of Islam around the world.

Now, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is curbing their power as part of his drive to impose his control on the kingdom and press for a more open brand of Islam.

Before the arrests on Saturday of his fellow royals and former ministers on corruption allegations, Prince Mohammed had stripped the religious police of their arrest powers and expanded the space for women in public life, including promising them the right to drive.

Dozens of hard-line clerics have been detained, while others were designated to speak publicly about respect for other religions, a topic once anathema to the kingdom’s religious apparatus.

If the changes take hold, they could mean a historic reordering of the Saudi state by diminishing the role of hard-line clerics in shaping policy. That shift could reverberate abroad by moderating the exportation of the kingdom’s uncompromising version of Islam, Wahhabism, which has been accused of fueling intolerance and terrorism.

About F***ing time!


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Blue3 on November 07, 2017, 01:18:10 AM
Actually I wonder if the current Saudi King might be near-death (he's seemed healthy but he is 81), and the Crown Prince wants to consolidate power first.

 Because every King of Saudi Arabia has been a son of the first king (besides the first, obviously). Not descendent... son.

 It just so happens than Father Time is basically done with the sons of the First Saudi King, and it's time for one of the grandsons to be the next King... and this Crown Prince, the 32-year-old, wants to make sure he isn't killed or otherwise deposed since there's even more grandsons than sons.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: SoLongAtlas on November 07, 2017, 08:19:03 AM
“The involvement of the Iranian regime in supplying its Houthi militias with missiles is considered a direct military aggression by the Iranian regime and may be considered an act of war against the Kingdom,” the crown prince was quoted as saying during a telephone conversation with British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1189641/saudi-arabia

--

In the case of a Saudi-Iranian war, it would essentially boil down to a draw due to many factors, UK and US would, of course, support SA. Oil prices would balloon, a good deal of Saudis and Iranians would die, shipping would be diverted if not stopped altogether in the Gulf, bad stuff. For military analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4sUtze3jw

Edit:

To add to that, this article sees a war as beneficial to Russia, US fracking, and Saudi prices. This is a sad but realistic view of an almost guaranteed outcome and why MBS may not mind risking it. If he wins the war, higher oil prices, higher IPO, solidification of his image as a glorified war victor, etc.

This would be the greatest fantasy of many oil state Republicans.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/06/25/the-coming-war-between-saudi-arabia-and-iran-will-make-american-frackers-very-rich/#7024d6da78da


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Kingpoleon on November 07, 2017, 09:03:08 AM
“The involvement of the Iranian regime in supplying its Houthi militias with missiles is considered a direct military aggression by the Iranian regime and may be considered an act of war against the Kingdom,” the crown prince was quoted as saying during a telephone conversation with British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1189641/saudi-arabia

--

In the case of a Saudi-Iranian war, it would essentially boil down to a draw due to many factors, UK and US would, of course, support SA. Oil prices would balloon, a good deal of Saudis and Iranians would die, shipping would be diverted if not stopped altogether in the Gulf, bad stuff. For military analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4sUtze3jw

Edit:

To add to that, this article sees a war as beneficial to Russia, US fracking, and Saudi prices. This is a sad but realistic view of an almost guaranteed outcome and why MBS may not mind risking it. If he wins the war, higher oil prices, higher IPO, solidification of his image as a glorified war victor, etc.

This would be the greatest fantasy of many oil state Republicans.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/06/25/the-coming-war-between-saudi-arabia-and-iran-will-make-american-frackers-very-rich/#7024d6da78da

Question: would Pakistan back Iran and India back Saudi Arabia?


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: kelestian on November 07, 2017, 09:08:43 AM
“The involvement of the Iranian regime in supplying its Houthi militias with missiles is considered a direct military aggression by the Iranian regime and may be considered an act of war against the Kingdom,” the crown prince was quoted as saying during a telephone conversation with British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1189641/saudi-arabia

--

In the case of a Saudi-Iranian war, it would essentially boil down to a draw due to many factors, UK and US would, of course, support SA. Oil prices would balloon, a good deal of Saudis and Iranians would die, shipping would be diverted if not stopped altogether in the Gulf, bad stuff. For military analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4sUtze3jw

Edit:

To add to that, this article sees a war as beneficial to Russia, US fracking, and Saudi prices. This is a sad but realistic view of an almost guaranteed outcome and why MBS may not mind risking it. If he wins the war, higher oil prices, higher IPO, solidification of his image as a glorified war victor, etc.

This would be the greatest fantasy of many oil state Republicans.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/06/25/the-coming-war-between-saudi-arabia-and-iran-will-make-american-frackers-very-rich/#7024d6da78da

Well, Yemen War showed that Saudis are not good at war. And how they want to fight with Iran? Through Iraq, where 200 000 Shiite militias are deployed?



Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: kelestian on November 07, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
“The involvement of the Iranian regime in supplying its Houthi militias with missiles is considered a direct military aggression by the Iranian regime and may be considered an act of war against the Kingdom,” the crown prince was quoted as saying during a telephone conversation with British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1189641/saudi-arabia

--

In the case of a Saudi-Iranian war, it would essentially boil down to a draw due to many factors, UK and US would, of course, support SA. Oil prices would balloon, a good deal of Saudis and Iranians would die, shipping would be diverted if not stopped altogether in the Gulf, bad stuff. For military analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4sUtze3jw

Edit:

To add to that, this article sees a war as beneficial to Russia, US fracking, and Saudi prices. This is a sad but realistic view of an almost guaranteed outcome and why MBS may not mind risking it. If he wins the war, higher oil prices, higher IPO, solidification of his image as a glorified war victor, etc.

This would be the greatest fantasy of many oil state Republicans.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/06/25/the-coming-war-between-saudi-arabia-and-iran-will-make-american-frackers-very-rich/#7024d6da78da

Question: would Pakistan back Iran and India back Saudi Arabia?

Pakistan has good relations with both Iran and Saudi Arabia, they would be neutral.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on November 07, 2017, 03:18:41 PM
I'm quite interested in what way Turkey will fall. Traditionally they would have gone with Saudi Arabia, and they did try and ouster Iran's puppet Assad, but recently they seem to have shown to flirt with the Iranians.

Let's hope that it doesn't come to a war and cooler heads prevail. Both countries are far too armed for their own good, and a war would no doubt be brutal and cause a horrendous regional spillover effect.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Dark Salman Rises
Post by: Kingpoleon on November 07, 2017, 05:36:36 PM
I'm quite interested in what way Turkey will fall. Traditionally they would have gone with Saudi Arabia, and they did try and ouster Iran's puppet Assad, but recently they seem to have shown to flirt with the Iranians.

Let's hope that it doesn't come to a war and cooler heads prevail. Both countries are far too armed for their own good, and a war would no doubt be brutal and cause a horrendous regional spillover effect.

Well, two authoritarian states duking it out never helps anyone much. Case in point, the Eastern Front during WWII.


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Purge Time
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on November 25, 2017, 03:19:46 PM
Saudi detainees are reportedly being tortured (per the Daily Mail):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5108651/American-mercenaries-torturing-Saudi-princes.html


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Purge Time
Post by: SoLongAtlas on December 19, 2017, 09:02:04 AM
Another missile intercept from Yemen https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/saudi-arabia-says-it-intercepts-ballistic-missile-fired-from-yemen/2017/12/19/6617d5ba-e4b0-11e7-833f-155031558ff4_story.html?utm_term=.3675affade9a


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Purge Time
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on December 19, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
The boy Prince has been splashing out lately, buying the most expensive home and the most expensive artwork in the past few months. Can't think why :P


Title: Re: Saudi Arabia General Discussion Thread: Purge Time with Finn and Jake
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on March 22, 2018, 10:35:34 PM
Saudi Crown Prince Boasted That Jared Kushner Was “In His Pocket” (https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/)
Quote

Until he was stripped of his top-secret security clearance in February, presidential adviser Jared Kushner was known around the White House as one of the most voracious readers of the President’s Daily Brief, a highly classified rundown of the latest intelligence intended only for the president and his closest advisers.

Kushner, who had been tasked with bringing about a deal between Israel and Palestine, was particularly engaged by information about the Middle East, according to a former White House official and a former U.S. intelligence professional.

In late October, Jared Kushner made an unannounced trip to Riyadh, catching some intelligence officials off guard. “The two princes are said to have stayed up until nearly 4 a.m. several nights, swapping stories and planning strategy,” the Washington Post’s David Ignatius reported at the time.

What exactly Kushner and the Saudi royal talked about in Riyadh may be known only to them, but after the meeting, Crown Prince Mohammed told confidants that Kushner had discussed the names of Saudis disloyal to the crown prince, according to three sources who have been in contact with members of the Saudi and Emirati royal families since the crackdown. Kushner, through his attorney’s spokesperson, denies having done so.