|
Title: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: dead0man on June 15, 2018, 11:03:03 PM the House passed a law this week banning the import and traficking of them. (https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article213126084.html)
Quote The U.S. House approved a ban Wednesday on the importation and trafficking of anatomically correct child sex dolls and robots that “normalize sex between adults and minors.” The proposal was approved in the House by a voice vote and now moves to the Senate. “These dolls can be programmed to simulate rape. The very thought makes me nauseous,” said House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, a Virginia Republican. Child sex dolls are one niche of a nascent robotic sex industry that has generated debate about the ethics of the use of lifelike machines for sexual activity. It is a subject that turns from squeamish to outright revulsion for many when it touches on child sex dolls and robots. Atlantic article on dude that says they help him mange his urges (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/01/can-child-dolls-keep-pedophiles-from-offending/423324/) (but he is selling something, so grain of salt and all that) Quote “We should accept that there is no way to change someone’s fetishes,” Takagi insisted. “I am helping people express their desires, legally and ethically. It’s not worth living if you have to live with repressed desire.” Several treatments for pedophilia exist, including cognitive-behavioral therapy and chemical castration, and other interventions intended to suppress urges. A meta-analysis conducted by the Mayo Clinic recently concluded that the treatments “do not change the pedophile’s basic sexual orientation toward children.” In addition, among people who have actually molested children, the study cites recidivism rates ranging from 10 percent to 50 percent. Takagi believes other methods of harm-reduction are warranted, and suggests his products could help. So far, there is no research to indicate whether or not Takagi’s dolls would be successful, and Peter Fagan from the John Hopkins School of Medicine is skeptical that there ever will be. Citing cognitive-behavioral theory, the paraphilia researcher believes that contact with Trottla’s products would likely have a “reinforcing effect” on pedophilic ideation and “in many instances, cause it to be acted upon with greater urgency.” The research Fagan cites to support that conclusion is based on offenders, so it is unclear whether the effects would be different for non-offenders. <snip> Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: dead0man on June 15, 2018, 11:03:55 PM the third option should be "no, but only if they are proven to help"
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on June 15, 2018, 11:41:09 PM No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course.
No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys. The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like. And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on June 16, 2018, 08:36:52 AM No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course. No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys. The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like. And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them. I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 16, 2018, 09:01:41 AM Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here.
Anyway, I think if it leads to paedos being more likely to move on to real kids, it should be banned. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Mr. Reactionary on June 16, 2018, 09:06:51 AM No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course. No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys. The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like. And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them. I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to. It just says speech Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on June 16, 2018, 09:08:12 AM Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here. Anyway, I think if it leads to paedos being more likely to move on to real kids, it should be banned. Yeah, I think a utilitarian approach is probably best here. If... well, I don’t know how we’d research it without putting people in harm’s way, but if the evidence showed that it could contain the pedo population, it has its uses. Otherwise, discard and ban. And regardless, not the type of thing that should be made available on-demand to the general public. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on June 16, 2018, 09:09:08 AM No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course. No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys. The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like. And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them. I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to. It just says speech And it’s okay to punish people for shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater because...? Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Goldwater on June 16, 2018, 09:15:48 AM Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here. The difference here is that real life child porn invloves real life children who can't consent to such things, while consent isn't an issue for inanimate objects. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on June 16, 2018, 10:09:56 AM Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here. Anyway, I think if it leads to paedos being more likely to move on to real kids, it should be banned. The First Amendment protects speech as well as art/porn and I think sex dolls would fall into the latter category. Real child porn is banned because children cannot consent. Fake porn doesn't cause demonstrable harm to any human being in its, erm, production. Why would they make pedophiles more likely to prey on real children? The purpose of the dolls is to deter would-be predators so that their perverted fantasies remain just that - fantasies. I agree with Cath that they shouldn't be available on-demand. Should psychiatrists be required to write prescriptions for child sex dolls? I dunno. I doubt anyone's gone through the lengths to study it, but until science finds the 'cure' for pedophilia, then the dolls are probably the best available option. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 16, 2018, 10:21:46 AM Read the Atlantic article - there is just as much evidence that it will cause a higher chance of offending than the opposite. Personally I'm very sceptical that these people will be satisfied by their dolls, although I admit that's more of a gut feeling (because there isn't much hard evidence either way).
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Mr. Reactionary on June 16, 2018, 03:43:06 PM No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course. No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys. The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like. And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them. I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to. It just says speech And it’s okay to punish people for shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater because...? It's only punishable if there is no fire and it creates a panic. Freedom of speech is not limited to political speech. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on June 16, 2018, 10:02:08 PM No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course. No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys. The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like. And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them. I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to. It just says speech And it’s okay to punish people for shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater because...? It's only punishable if there is no fire and it creates a panic. Freedom of speech is not limited to political speech. Far be it from me to argue the Constitution with a lawyer, but if we imagine why someone would author such an amendment in the environment of the founding and shortly thereafter, it seems rather obvious that the goal was to secure the ability to trade political ideas freely. Beyond that, my comment was not related to "what is", or perhaps even "what should be", but "what was". Pulling some literalist argument seems to miss the point. I understand if your political goals are to maximize liberty and thus to willfully interpret things a certain way; my goals are not. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Co-Chair Bagel23 on June 18, 2018, 12:55:08 AM No.
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas on June 18, 2018, 02:19:25 PM No. It's been well-proven that pedophiles have an intense compulsion that is extremely hard for them to regulate. Many give into their compulsions and wind up in prison for child porn or child molestation (where they belong) and many others are fully aware of how horrible these compulsions are and wind up taking their own life.
I can't say I'm not revolted by the idea, but if things like these "dolls" and animated child porn with no real children involved in the making help them to alleviate those compulsions enough to function in society, aren't they actually protecting children? Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Antonio the Sixth on June 18, 2018, 03:23:17 PM ...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane).
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: dead0man on June 18, 2018, 03:42:06 PM ...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane). Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 18, 2018, 06:14:33 PM I'm torn between "f**k, this is just sick" and "this is sick, but better than actual child getting exploited". One already has to have pedophile fantasies to even try that.
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: nclib on June 18, 2018, 10:25:17 PM It seems like there are two unproven hypotheses here:
1) Using a child sex doll will lead towards a pedophile offending a real life child 2) Using a child sex doll will give an outlet to a pedophile and decrease the chance of their offending a real life child Since both are unproven and it is not obvious which is more likely, I'd say not to ban them. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: TPIG on June 19, 2018, 12:03:39 AM ...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane). Agreed. I'm sorry, but it's not society's job to make life easier for pedophiles, and I think dolls like these would lead to a normalization of the idea of adult-on-child sex acts and make abuse more, not less, likely. Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Antonio the Sixth on June 19, 2018, 02:59:17 AM ...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane). Right, the extreme fringe conservative position that mimicking sex acts with children is wrong. ::) Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: dead0man on June 19, 2018, 05:24:28 AM not "extreme fringe", just regular old conservatism
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Antonio the Sixth on June 19, 2018, 06:03:01 AM not "extreme fringe", just regular old conservatism So being a progressive requires condoning pedophilic roleplaying now? Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on June 19, 2018, 06:11:35 AM dead0man really jumped the gun here. What the hell does it have to do with conservatism or liberalism?
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: dead0man on June 19, 2018, 06:18:00 AM not "extreme fringe", just regular old conservatism So being a progressive requires condoning pedophilic roleplaying now? Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Goldwater on June 19, 2018, 09:41:49 AM dead0man really jumped the gun here. What the hell does it have to do with conservatism or liberalism? I think this is another one of those cases where "not liberal" is mistaken for "conservative". Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on June 19, 2018, 11:56:16 AM Maybe the "compromise" is that such things should only be prescribed by professionals who believe it will help reduce offences? I'm trying to look at through a utilitarian lens, tbh, rather than bickering about whether it's liberal or conservative.
Title: Re: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned? Post by: Sprouts Farmers Market ✘ on June 19, 2018, 12:35:01 PM Maybe the "compromise" is that such things should only be prescribed by professionals who believe it will help reduce offences? I'm trying to look at through a utilitarian lens, tbh, rather than bickering about whether it's liberal or conservative. I would imagine most people don't want to be in a system that tracks this for obvious reasons that could risk wrongful accusation and public embarrassment. It's similar to an outright refusal to seek professional psychiatric assistance due to the prospect of increased life insurance premiums but much grander. But you would have to be operating from the assumption that this is beneficial - which I believe it would be - to agree with the logic of refusing the "compromise" |