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General Politics => International General Discussion => Topic started by: kelestian on October 12, 2018, 08:24:48 am



Title: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: kelestian on October 12, 2018, 08:24:48 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45822280

Looks like Saudi operatives killed journalist during his visit to Saudi consulate in Turkey


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: dead0man on October 12, 2018, 08:46:28 am
I've got a feeling he's going to be "missing" for a long time.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: ¢®🅰ß 🦀 ©@k€ 🎂 on October 12, 2018, 09:31:28 am
Remarkably dumb decision by MBS here - either this was a turbulent priest situation or else he got high on his own propaganda. Big powerful and bipartisan bloc of US Senators have just called for targeted sanctions, and a lot of other countries have put the Kingdom on note. Even if they survive this diplomatically, all of MBS's PR offensive over the past two years has gone to waste.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: Averroës on October 12, 2018, 09:49:44 am
Is there another thread on this story, or has is it actually been that underdiscussed here?


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: kelestian on October 12, 2018, 10:06:25 am
I hadn't found another thread.

Also: "Khashoggi strolled into the Saudi Arabian consulate expecting to finalise some routine paperwork — and vanished.
Hours later it is thought that his dismembered body was smuggled out of the building inside diplomatic boxes."

Sounds like a story i read in a russian detective novel some years ago


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: True Federalist on October 12, 2018, 12:05:45 pm
It looks like some good is coming out of this, but not enuf to be happy it happened.

Quote from: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45841276
A court in Turkey has freed a US pastor from house arrest in a case that badly strained ties between the US and Turkey.

Andrew Brunson was arrested over alleged links to political groups, including the banned Gulenist movement, after a failed coup attempt in 2016.

The timing is just too close to be coincidental in my opinion. I suspect that the Saudis were hoping to take advantage of frosty US-Turkish relations and they clearly misjudged how much ruckus the Turks would be both able and willing to raise over this.

I foresee a pivot to China by the Saudis in the near future. Altho I think even the Chinese might think the Saudis were being excessive.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: NewYorkExpress on October 12, 2018, 03:22:21 pm
Frankly, I think we should nuke Mecca...but since we're not talking about a U.S citizen, maybe it isn't required yet.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: PSOL on October 12, 2018, 03:28:32 pm
So much for all the chatter of how MBS is a modernizer, bringing his country to success with a strong service sector. This, along with the theft of the Bin Laden construction company, just proves that it was hot air by neocon think tanks.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: ¢®🅰ß 🦀 ©@k€ 🎂 on October 12, 2018, 03:40:58 pm
Frankly, I think we should nuke Mecca...but since we're not talking about a U.S citizen, maybe it isn't required yet.

Glad we're keeping a sense of perspective lol.

Basically the Sauds are relearning the lesson Europeans found out over the last few centuries: royals may be cute on stamps and the like, but massively increasing their executive role to lead a nation state is very much a gamble.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: kelestian on October 12, 2018, 03:47:27 pm
Well, it was obvious after accident wit Lebanese prime-minister and Qatar crysis that Saudi elites are adventurous, but this is incredibly stupid move by MBS.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: PR on October 13, 2018, 03:58:57 am
Frankly, I think we should nuke Mecca...but since we're not talking about a U.S citizen, maybe it isn't required yet.

Glad we're keeping a sense of perspective lol.

Basically the Sauds are relearning the lesson Europeans found out over the last few centuries: royals may be cute on stamps and the like, but massively increasing their executive role to lead a nation state is very much a gamble.

“nation” state

I don’t think there’s much in the way of Saudi nationalism. Bribes to tribal sheikhs and passive obedience to the royals as demanded by their puppet clerics don’t count imo. Nor does MBS’s cult of personality among the Young and the Restless of Saudi.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: Beezer on October 13, 2018, 04:03:05 am
Well, this hasn't aged well...

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Img
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Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on October 13, 2018, 04:06:08 am
Well, this hasn't aged well...

(
Img
)

Nothing dumb sh**t hawks write ages well.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: PR on October 13, 2018, 04:06:51 am
Anyway, this is what happens when a bunch of entrenched senile old leaders of a state die out and one of the last standing among these cedes his power to his just north of 30-year old son, who mocks the very notions of caution, compromise, or consensus.

Imagine if Chernenko was immediately replaced not by Gorbachev but by Putin - and Putin was far more reckless and overtly drunk on power - and you will begin to have a decent understanding of MBS.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: ¢®🅰ß 🦀 ©@k€ 🎂 on October 13, 2018, 05:56:53 am
Frankly, I think we should nuke Mecca...but since we're not talking about a U.S citizen, maybe it isn't required yet.

Glad we're keeping a sense of perspective lol.

Basically the Sauds are relearning the lesson Europeans found out over the last few centuries: royals may be cute on stamps and the like, but massively increasing their executive role to lead a nation state is very much a gamble.

“nation” state

I don’t think there’s much in the way of Saudi nationalism. Bribes to tribal sheikhs and passive obedience to the royals as demanded by their puppet clerics don’t count imo. Nor does MBS’s cult of personality among the Young and the Restless of Saudi.


That's the thing; I think MBS fancies himself as some sort of powerful centralising monarch in the style of Henry Tudor, Emperor Meiji or Napoleon, the sort of people who swept aside old orders with regimes focused on their own persona as the authority. Unfortunately for him, I don't think he has the ability.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: PR on October 17, 2018, 12:06:08 am
Interesting....

Quote
Turkey has become one of the safest places in the world for members of the Muslim Brotherhood and other dissidents from Egypt to the Gulf to Syria. But Khashoggi’s disappearance and, if Turkish leaks are to be believed, death at the hands of a Saudi death squad inside the consulate is a chilling development.

“This must have sent shivers down the spines of dissidents from Egypt and from Gulf countries in Turkey because it suggests that they're not really safe in Turkey,” Cagaptay said. “And that's why I think Erdogan has to find a way that whatever path the Saudis take to dig out of this, it becomes very clear that it won't happen again, it won't be repeated because that will hugely undermine Erdogan's design to maintain a lever against Egypt and GCC-bloc countries through supporting the opposition, predominantly by hosting Muslim Brotherhood dissidents.”

Erdogan’s ties with the Arab world may be tense, but his approach to Saudi Arabia is different. The Turkish president is a devout conservative Sunni Muslim and respects Saudi King Salman as the custodian of Islam’s two holy mosques. Revelations about the Khashoggi case are marked not only by their anonymity, but also by the fact that no senior Turkish officials has gone on the record about the case, and Erdogan himself has mostly been quiet, perhaps hoping that a neat solution emerges that allows everyone to save face.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/10/turkey-saudi-jamal-khashoggi/573052/


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: Polarized MT Treasurer on October 17, 2018, 10:32:52 am
This was a gruesome slaughter.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-khashoggi-829291552
https://nypost.com/2018/10/17/audio-reveals-details-of-jamal-khashoggis-torture-decapitation-report/

Bastards.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: Silent Hunter on October 17, 2018, 11:42:23 am
Why would you do this in your embassy?


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: Councilor Zaybay on October 17, 2018, 12:18:45 pm
Perhaps the world may be less keen on supplying such a state with trade deals and weapons.
Such an act deserves retribution, and the Saudis have already pushed the envelope.


Title: Re: Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi missed in Istanbul
Post by: Frodo on October 17, 2018, 07:22:10 pm
This was a gruesome slaughter.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-khashoggi-829291552
https://nypost.com/2018/10/17/audio-reveals-details-of-jamal-khashoggis-torture-decapitation-report/

Bastards.
----------------------------
From the first article:

Quote
It took seven minutes for Jamal Khashoggi to die, a Turkish source who has listened in full to an audio recording of the Saudi journalist's last moments told Middle East Eye.

Khashoggi was dragged from the consul-general’s office at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and onto the table of his study next door, the Turkish source said.

Horrendous screams were then heard by a witness downstairs, the source said.

Quote
The screaming stopped when Khashoggi - who was last seen entering the Saudi consulate on 2 October - was injected with an as yet unknown substance.

Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy, who has been identified as the head of forensic evidence in the Saudi general security department, was one of the 15-member squad who arrived in Ankara earlier that day on a private jet.

Tubaigy began to cut Khashoggi’s body up on a table in the study while he was still alive, the Turkish source said.

Was the substance they injected him with the real-life version of the one given to the young Varys when the sorcerer deprived him of his manhood?  If so, he must have felt everything....