Talk Elections

Definitely an FF ,

While I may not agree with David as much as I used to , he has been one of my oldest buddies on this forum so all I have to say is that I am with him against all the disgusting attacks that have been thrown at him by many posters lately.

Boring HP

I like David.

He has worldly experience.

Forum treasure.

I really like him obviously :)

Objectively the poster with the worst politics on this entire site. Awful, awful person.

I disagree with him on many things, but I do think the vitriol sent his way does get a bit hyperbolic at times.

Most of the haters are just jealous

Sometimes his politics are the polar opposite of mine, but he's a good dude.

TF, the master of understatement.

In short, FF.  I like him.  More importantly, he's needed in many ways on this forum.  However, I find a lot of his views/comments really unfortunate, and I wish he'd explain them a lot more instead of trying to rile up lefties.

     FWIW, your average poster on this forum does not really merit having things explained. I used to spend so much time justifying my views to other people, and I have gradually come to see this for the waste of time that it is. I daresay that DavidB. is just further along on that curve than I am.

Isn't justifying views/positions kind of the point of a political forum? If all of this - elections, political discussions, etc - is about pushing a set of beliefs/policies, it stands to reason that we'd be arguing why ours are needed and why others aren't.

Also at times I've found that justifying isn't always needed so much as simply explaining one's views and how they got there. I don't necessarily need someone to prove their positions are the right ones.

That's fine if you're just saying your opinion on the matter ... it sucks to see David say a lib-triggering comment and being perfectly fine with people thinking he's intolerant, plain and simple.

Grote vrijheidsstrijder (normaal)

Horrible person like all militant zionists.

     If you were to check my most recent posts, you would see that my first page goes back to November 3rd. Yes it is the point of a political forum, and I do not see the point of doing it with most posters on this political forum. I'm a busy man and I have wasted too much of my life already explaining myself to people who couldn't care less to consider myself beholden to further doing so. If I consider it useful in a particular instance then I will and if I don't then I won't.

     Considering how often I have found that perfectly normal opinions well within the political mainstream end up being "lib-triggering", I daresay that the line between the two is not as clear as you think. You might say that intentionality is the key point and I would generally agree, yet the prevailing standards of political discourse would tend to differ from that. People just assume your intentions all the time.

Has turned into one of the most unrepentant hacks on the forum, which apparently does nothing to soil your street cred with respectable right-wing posters.

One of my favorite people on Atlas and one of my closest Atlas friends. Massive FF.

Also, one of two atlas posters I met IRL :)

Supports Bolsonaro = Automatic HP

You're a smart guy, join us.

HP. He hypocritically supports right wing populists abroad, yet he is scared of them at his own home. In fact, the only marginalized people that he thinks shouldn’t be kicked out and beaten is his own. Ironic that he thinks that supporting fascists abroad won’t affect him at home.

 I predict that someday he will announce his movement to Israel due to Dutch Skinheads here at this forum. I wonder if he will repent for his actions and/or remain on course approving the treatment on the gentiles living in Israel.

I want to believe he's seriously misguided.

Such loaded language and nonsense in this post. He doesn't have to repent to anyone, especially not you or anyone else on this forum.

I'm pretty sure he votes for right wing populists in the Netherlands anyway...?

In any case, he is one of the best posters on here - and generally engaging and insightful when people are willing to reciprocate

Endorses terrorism, so... not good.

FF. Super great on all issues unrelated to Israeli terrorism.

Total and utterly disgusting personal attack and slander against David.

Ask him his opinion of the 1946 King David Hotel bombing, and then get back to me.

People react to their team losing in different ways. David chose to join the other side and just sh*tpost

That's pretty much why he's not going to.

Not to mention that the personal attack came from a Massive HP.

DavidB, of course, is a Massive FF. 

By the way, Zionism is not Racism, and people who disagree can pound salt as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely one of the best.

You can clutch your pearls all you want, but:

Don’t agree with him on Israel/Palestine stuff, but he’s still a FF.

To be fair, didn’t you and SJoyce make the same decision?

Oh, I only see this now. Thanks to all the kings and queens who showed me their love - much love back! <3 You're beautiful and smart and you look great today!

Still one of my favorite DavidB posts:

Nah, he supports them as a Final Solution to the Muslim question.

Smug racist and hypocrite.

Sorry, nice guy FF. :)

What?

I’m referring to your support of Bolsonaro, when right before mentioned your concern of Nazis engaged on social media in The Netherlands.

I am a (literal) card-carrying member of a right-wing populist party in the Netherlands and I support a right-wing populist in Brazil. No hypocrisy.

I would obviously not support antisemitic far-right forces in Brazil should they exist. Bolsonaro, however, is pro-Jewish - just like FVD, who reiterated their support for Jews and Israel by voting for adopting the IHRA antisemitism definition, for moving the Dutch Embassy to Israel to Jerusalem, and for cutting all Dutch UNRWA funding just yesterday.

At the same time, while highly critical of the attitudes that many American Jews hold and while understanding that some people's views of the Jewish people would not necessarily be affected positively by these people's attitudes and behavior (to put it mildly), I am worried about the growing amount of far-right antisemitism on the Dutch right, which fortunately has no place within FVD. Baudet's criticism of Soros is both legitimate and necessary, and it is ridiculous that some people consider this to be antisemitic.

Exactly, you support the marginalization of everybody else except your own people. All these other minority folks are a bunch of uncivilized criminals, yet our people have been unjustly attacked by the literally same base as these right-wing populists.

I forsee the day when the dog whistles are removed, and the FvD will start attacking the Jewish people. It happened before the rise of the Nazi party, where they didn’t outright attack the Jewish community, just called most of them misguided, and then removed the dog whistle when they gained more power.

Strawmanning + moving the goalposts (your initial claim was that I don't support right-wing populists in NL) + a stunning lack of historical knowledge (Nazis never quite concealed their antisemitism).

Awful in pretty much every way.

I'd say by Bolsonaro's own stated beliefs, he is a legitimate threat to the very idea of free and fair elections (or elections at all?) in Brazil, and supporting the idea of choosing your leaders should take precedent over a politician, no matter how many other favorable policies he dangles in one's face. And no, I don't think this is all hyperbole with him. Brazil doesn't have the most stable democracy as it is, and this guy hasn't been shy about what he wants. Plus, I don't get why anyone outside of BR would even want to publicly align with him. What good does that do?

All of this is to say that I really think right-leaning people (there are left-leaning examples too but the right's issues are more prominent atm) are sacrificing at times profound ethical and moral considerations to justify their support for politicians who they like or otherwise support other policies of. How much a person should excuse from their leaders in exchange for policy is a legitimate question of course, but one that is being answered these days in concerning ways.

The weird thing is he got upset about me talking about my church converting Muslims, despite the support of anti-Islam right-wing populists.

I assumed you supported PM Rutte and the VVD.


Friend, look at history. It is not disputed that when classical conservatives started saying that Germany needs to cleanse itself of immoral elements, that atmosphere led to the rise of the Nazi Party . When the dog whistles were taken down, the most anti-semetic of them won.
That environment of condemnation against inner enemies, and support of making the country purged of bad influences, will always lead to attacks against those who were always hated by the far right.

They are going to come after you. Maybe you can say you believed in the right things and was a model citizen in their eyes, but that didn’t help German-Jewish Veterans from WW1.

Of all the bad things said in this thread, this one is probably the most offensive.

PSOL's rhetoric is a atrocious and disgusting. The twisting of history to fit his own political biases should be rejected by sane people in the mainstream.

I don't agree with DavidB's views much (outside of Jewish issues, and a lot, but not all, of his Israel positions), but some of assertions in this thread are laughable.

Oh, he supports Bolsonaro? Good God.

No wonder Israel is loathed around the world.

If my political biases include wanting my Jewish friends safe from harm, then condemn me.

Exactly what am I twisting? What have I said wrong? That far-right populists don’t demonize ethnic minorities? That politicians putting us into a atmosphere of fear leads to violence against those already marginalized? Look at right now, with Brietbart and Trump just blowing a whistle away, with the consistent rise of antisemetic attacks.

There might be plenty of (mostly made-up) reasons why Israel is disliked, but I'm pretty sure the opinions of one random Jewish guy in the Netherlands who doesn't hold Israeli citizenship aren't among these reasons.

(mostly made-up)

ayy lmao

Both DavidB and I are Jewish. ParrotGuy is also Jewish and gets along w/ both of us. I appreciate your concern about right-wing antisemitism and bigotry - I am also concerned about it. I am also concerned about left-wing antisemitism and Islamic antisemitism. It is possible to oppose all forms of antisemitism at once and still maintain objectivity about which threats are larger or smaller at certain periods of time.

However, the rhetoric you are using is not helpful, imo. As I said, I don't agree w/ DavidB views on nationalism and on certain political parties but you are labeling everything under one basket.

Not every populist party is the same. Also, more problematic, for me at least, is the insinuation that DavidB doesn't know or care about the threats facing the Jewish community. 

tolerable as long as you skip over his posts about israel and bolsonaro.

FTFY

I like him quite a bit. I think that these criticisms of him being a right-wing populist and Jewish are just bizarre.

Apart from his passionate support for fascists and racists...well, I haven't really seen anything else from him. Oh, except that he's one of those right-wing hypocrites who gets offended over everything but think everyone else getting offended needs to suck it up.

I guess the one positive is that he does seem to feel a tiny tiny bit sad when he realizes he's empowering and supporting anti-semites. But it's such a tiny bit it doesn't go very far.

Friend, please stop goysplaing anti-Semitism.

When did the German pre-Hitler nationalist right use dog whistles against Jews as opposed to just saying it straight out? 
This was a 1919 poster from the DNVP - the largest German party on the right for most the Weimar period (note Nazis weren't the first ones to use the swastika)
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One of the few posters keeping this site readable.

Slightly off-topic but that's kind of interesting.  Hitler literally doodled symbols he was considering for the NSDAP:

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"Hmm... vich one of these looks scarier?"

Yes, we should objectively take into account major sources of antisemetic attacks on the Jewish community, of which right now is coming from the far right. With a rise in Nazi parties, I worry about my Jewish friends and my own safety. I see that even after winning an election, the Swedish Democrat’s continue to hurl offenses at the Jewish community. I see increased mobilization against the German state by Nazi groups, emboldened by AFD’s rise.

In caring for my friends, I have denounced any growth of cultural anxiety. That ranges from Jewish people being harassed and expelled in Northern Sweden by the Knights of Odin, to Israeli land taking in the West Bank. In doing so I bring the example of Jewish pogroms and murder to light to poke holes in the arguments of others. I know it hurts, but it is true.

DavidB is not only self-serving in his beliefs, but hypocritical in supporting the rhetoric that has and will continue to get people like him, you, and others killed than and now. I believe that DavidB is letting his utter hatred of women, minorities, and left of center parties get in the way of his self perseverance. How is pointing out reality not helping? How is warning someone of their possible doom not helping?

I am concerned that you moved the goal post by railing against criticism of Israel and Islamist(really just another flavor of right wing) antisemitism, since I made no utter of that in my critique of DavidB’s support of an admitted racist and wannabe dictator in Brazil.

Look, if you are just gonna play good cop, don’t tell it to someone who lost his mind at Hillgoose’s posting style or has railed against whataboutery. I’ve tried to dance across this but no, just no. I see reality and know that I must work for the protection and benefit of my nation, to not collapse the great experiment by falling under what our liberal values stand against.

even when he's right?

Admittedly I’m getting this from an article from a Weimar era Christian Party not hating Jews explicitly, but condemning them for bringing in ill. There is also the railings of liberal values by the Junckers, guess who was blamed in secret for spreading them.

Also on “goysplaining”-My god, you sound exactly like when Charles Taylor and Robert Mugabe condemned imperialism for when they were ethnically cleansing their countries. You can’t copyright history.

Arguably the most knowledgeable person on the forum, but he advocates for some utterly repugnant things and people.

Sorta, I suppose

I’d actually been meaning to somehow call SJoyce out for a while, you just got caught in a convenient situation. :P

I'm even more sure that Bolsonaro isn't a reason some don't care for Israeli policies.

Attention seeker who posts what he posts for threads like this.

Will you believe this is the first Opinion of DavidB thread? According to your theory this clearly has to be the happiest day in my life since the moment I created my account. But it's rather underwhelming, I have to say, which may disprove your theory...

FF (in general and on immigration, => not naive).

A bit too right-wing/nationalist on other issues though.

As a poster he is fine so I guess lean FF. Massive HP politics though.

Anyone involved in denouncing Corbyn's anti-semitism is an automatic FF.

He's pretty far to my right and I disagree with him on some things, but he's a massive FF and one of the best posters on this forum's right flank.

He's a very smart guy. However, he has the small problem of being f**king insane. I like to think of him as the bad Sunrise. HP.

I talk with him regularly, and I can guarantee you he's not insane.

He makes me think a lot about Charles Maurras. Maurras was a very smart guy and he developed completely extremist theories. And his reasoning made sense. However, that was the hypothesis of his model that were absolutely false, so any thoughts he could have ended up being very wrong even if there wasn't a problem with logic.

Do you really want to know what I think? Alas, you will ban me if I say it.

Joe Republic an HP??

Go wash your mouth out with soap. Besides, if you saw his reply to osrs post that you so quickly piggyback Don, you will know he is absolutely correct. That is unless you are a huge supporter of the King David Hotel bombing as well. Who would Jesus bomb??

In regards to the Opie, I just can't take his hypocrisy. His islamophobia and opposition to a Palestinian state or further Islamic immigration - or likely any immigration - to Europe is so strong he wholeheartedly supports far far right extremists, as in the type of folks who have about a 1 and 3 chance of having a secret collection of Nazi memorabilia, and about a one-in-five chance of being more than willing curb stomp him into the emergency Ward because he's Jewish.

Well, I guess it's not just the hypocrisy, but support for that type of all right extremism in general. I don't care how much of a so-called nice guy one is, that's a disqualifier. I'd like to like him, but I'm sorry that's not just difference in politics.

Regarding the original poster?

We disagree on a lot, and agree on a bit, but what we agree on is usually the core, important issues of one's identity. He's also clearly a great guy personally. Massive FF.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Strawmanning left-wingers has allowed otherwise sane and likable people to support utterly repugnant people and policies with little consideration for moral consequences.

I like him as a person, so it’s really going to be tragic when we are forced to fight to death in the coming global war between nationalists and feckless cosmopolitans. :(

It is a choice what you like or dislike. If I were you, I would put a stop to this particular "liking". It would be best not to like whoever is goign to try to kill you.

Well he's Jewish with socialistic tendencies, he should really be:

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but I suppose it doesn't matter given his residence.

Not really, because I would almost always vote GOP

Its the first dedicated thread, but there are numerous threads that start out on a topic and end up in a discussion of what your personal views really are and whether you are the victim of the left-wing pc brigade. Admittedly this isn't entirely your fault. But the whole novelty act of the gay Jewish anti-pc RRWP must be hard to ditch when there is so much attention afforded to it. Perhaps that's also the case irl.

Do we even agree on anything? I don’t know. Yet, I quite like the guy and think having some discussions with him would be insightful and interesting, even if frequently frustrating.

FF

I'm honestly kind of conflicted. On the one hand, his whole worldview is dramatically different from mine, but on the other hand it's one of those situations where the hyperbole from some of his critics makes me want to vote FF out of spite.

Here's my revised, more nuanced opinion: I think David is a fundamentally good guy with serious and thoughtful views on most things and a fairly unique perspective, at least here - and at the same time, someone who trolls/triggers the libs too much.

Given that I too am guilty of trolling here, albeit from the "other side," I can empathize. Nevertheless, I will (try to) refrain from lame trolling, bad-faith criticism, and mean-spirited comments here, starting with DavidB. I will likely continue to "hate" his politics, but I won't hate him.

Best to you, David! :)

Massive FF

I still post serious content at AAD. Not here, though.

UwU

What an endorsement.

I stand by what I said about my opinion of some of his sympathies, but it doesn't change the fact I like him and appreciate his contributions. Even when I strongly disagree with what he says, he's putting efforts into explaining his position, which by itself is admirable.

Are we still talking about this guy? I thought we'd agreed he's an FF.

The poll results currently say otherwise, unless there’s some kind of electoral college system that has certified him as a FF anyway.

I, like every Atlasian, assign different weights to the opinions of different posters.

Glad the three-fifths rule has caught on!

He's someone that you can always count on to be compassionate in important moments, which is pretty rare around these parts. FF.

I doubt I agree with DavidB on everything, but I appreciate his realism.  I've already given him my FF rating.  .

The FF from frequently frustrating :D

But he seems okay. I definitely disagree on a lot of issues with him, but i think he would be fun to hang out with or have good discussions with, so i voted for FF.