Talk Elections

Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

The Bible teaches one to start a spiritual journey from the
bottom, i.e. from a stage where he must consider himself as a born sinner and starts his journey upwards from there. One reaches the second stage when he realises that he is the son and God is his father. The final realisation is when he realises that he and the Father are one. 

This is similar to the spiritual journey of a Hindu who starts his journey from the Dwait stage, where he thinks himself and God to be two distinct entities, graduates to Vishishta Adwait, a stage where he thinks himself a fragment/fraction of Him and finally reached to the Adwait stage where he merges himself with that infinite consciousness.

Stevan Davies. The savior is not a celestial being brought to earth; the savior is a capacity of the mind, and the savior’s journey from above is actually one’s own journey from within.

John Lennon. It seems to me that the only true Christians were the Gnostics, who believed in self-knowledge, I.E. becoming Gods
themselves, reaching the Christ within, the light is the truth. Turn on the light. All the better to see you my dear.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they
are life.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the
key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your
tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I think Jesus hated the idol worshipers of the traditional supernatural based religions and wanted to put us on a better and more naturalistic Gnostic Christian path of seeking knowledge and wisdom through Gnosis; that being a deeper knowledge of the self and others.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=youtu.be

Proposal: Let's just create a quarantine zone: a thread entitled "Greatest I Am's tedious bulls**t." Pin it at the top of this board and prohibit him from starting any new threads. He can post in it as much as he wants to and whatever masochists want to read this stuff can.

This board has basically no moderation. Gustaf should just resign and leave it to someone who's actually willing to do the job.

No.

::)

Awareness of the supernatural is the higher stage of consciousness. It’s called supernatural because its existence isn’t obvious to the senses.

Second

I second that emotion. These people who criticize you are Bullies and snowflakes, as far as I'm concerned. They're also part of the very ugly vicious Borg collective. Resistance may be futile (or maybe not).

Thank you.

The brain dead theists bring this poem to mind.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Criticism, to me, that does not have a decent argument or apologetic attached to it is like water off a ducks back.

I know that when there is no decent rebuttal that I have done well.

Lurkers will see how Christians react to intelligent thought and will know what side they want to be on.

Regards
DL

"Can absurdities go farther than this?"
Robert Ingersol

I have said it before and I'll say it again the R&P has basically become a "Christians only" board. It has not always been so, there were some great discussions on this board before the Borg took it over. The stench of hatred here is intolerable, so it's best not to spend too much time here. Unfortunately this has always been the culture, and on perhaps 98.6% of the discussions on the internet as whole.
The best antidote for this is, for me, is meditation...

OOOMMM

“It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”
Jonathan Swift

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Regards
DL

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

Albert Einstein

Keep in mind if someone is offended by the truth, that's on them. A wise man once said nothing.
Once you open your month and state your opinions, you're likely to offend someone, because it challenges the fantasyworld in which they live.
Diplomacy is the ability to tell someone to go hell so that they'll actually enjoy the trip.

Consider this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS5nmy1v34c

Childish, yes, but look at the damage to society that the adult children who believe these adult fairy tales have done to us.

That is why I post.

I think there may be just the one way to change their harmful thinking and unfortunately, I am not good at it.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

Let me add to your Ingersoll quote.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

I don't want to put myself in the position of defending the moral character of Thomas Jefferson who like William Penn was a slave owner, but he did say some interesting things such as:

"If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."

I like it.

It goes with this.

 
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." - Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart

Regards
DL

tmc, what offends me about GIA is his uniform smugness and combativeness. He's demonstrated time and again that he is uninterested in dialogue or debate. The only thing he shows interest in is in provoking others to respond to him. He is predictable in his opinions and demonstrates no interest in the opinions of others. That's why I have that troll on ignore and suggest others do the same. What I don't get is why you think the bully is being bullied because people want the bully to go elsewhere.

Correct that I care little for opinions and want to get apologetics and debates based on facts and not the garbage preaching based on the faith that fools/theist hade behind.

I get fed up with that garbage and let people know it.

Jordan Peterson
In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive

I sometimes wish I had my bully side under better control, but in order to be able to try to get non-thinkers to think, you have to risk being offensive and I do not mind taking the heat for being in a religionist's face, especially given the damage religions do with their homophobia and misogyny.

Regards
DL

Well, I could answer you in detail, but I don't think that he is a bully, as I never had a problem with how he responds to me, if I did I would ignore him, and that is the issue, if others like yourself chose to ignore him, I have no problem with that, but I enjoy interacting with him.
He does challenge the conventional wisdom here and I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise.
It is important to challenge group think.

edit: also there are quite a few of us who think he enriches the dialogue here, not just me

Well, for those who have already made up their minds, for whatever reason, your not going  to be able to get them to change their minds. For those who haven't you may have a chance to get them to consider the pros and cons of what you believe. You may not be successful in convincing them, but at least, you will have given them new ideas to ponder.

There is no conventional wisdom here to be challenged. You think the fact that most posters on this board are Christians is a product of “group think”, but no one comes here to be converted, they come here to share their perspectives, and most posters happen to come from a Christian background. You and Greatest I Am could also come here to share your perspectives, but you don’t. Greatest I Am claims to be a gnostic who’s achieved gnosis, but he’s never made a single thread about historically-existing Gnosticism or his personal experience of enlightenment; you posted earlier in this thread that you have to meditate to cope with this board, but you’ve never made a detailed post about meditation. Instead you both just post the same inanities over and over again - “Exoteric religion bad, esoteric religion good, here’s a YouTube video or a quote from some famous person supporting my position”. We’ve all heard it way too many times to care.

Actually, he doesn't.  His presentation is such that I can't possibly take him or his ideas seriously.  It certainly isn't at all like that Paul made while in Athens. (Acts 17:16-34)

If people can't handle what he has to say, they don't have to post in his threads; but his threads get a lot of replies, some of which is the same old same old complaints about his posting style.
Also, he does post a lot of variety of ideas. I find his analysis and insights valuable. Also, you can call me biased because I agree with a great deal, although certainly not all, of what he has to say.
It seems to me, though, that if Christians here took their own religion more seriously, they would be a lot more tolerant towards him. Isn't that what Christianity is supposed to be about? In reality, Christianity is extremely sectarian and divisive, although more liberal Christians do sometimes support the interfaith movement, but you don't hear much about that here.

If Christianity is such a tolerant faith, would so many Christians have supported Donald Trump?
Also pacifism has never been a big part of Christianity, either.
He does repeat some things, but some things need to be repeated.

All I've gotten out of him is one idea, stridently repeated with but minimal variation.  "Theists are evil and stupid and don't even understand their own texts. 'Gnostics' like me are wise and wonderful and if you disagree you're just too stupid to understand."  If that's insightful or valuable, then I'll gladly be dense and cheap.

What can I say. Thank you much my friend.

I do not think that most theists want to enrich their thinking and learn anything new in dialog.
Their insecurity drives then to seek bias confirmation and nothing else.

We all love to hate the other side, as it is what bonds a group, while they tell each other that it is love guiding and bonding them.

Theists hate the sinners and not the sin. If theist hated sin, they would not idol worship the vile Gods that they worship.

What theists hate in me is that I show them that their love for their demonstrably vile God is not justified. That puts their backs up while shutting down their minds.

Note the demonstrable truth in this play. It says my thinking much better than I can and it is basically all true, especially when applied to religion, race and war. Even the verbal wars we fight here.

My kingdom I would trade, for eloquence of speech.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmc72fCJivA

Regards
DL

" they come here to share their perspectives, and most posters happen to come from a Christian background."

Correct. They are driven by confirmation bias and I disturb their self-centred world with doubt.
 
As to my teaching what I know, theists do not seek or care of my perspective and experience. Theists would have to have some respect for me to have that desire and as one of the dreaded others from another tribe, regardless of personality or insight, I am to be hated.

Your love of your own is what creates the hate for me and it makes you cloud your moral judgements to where idol worshiping a vile God seems right. Even to idol worshiping a genocidal son murderer. Theists do not want a good God. They want a powerful God.

Regards
DL

 they come here to share their perspectives, and most posters happen to come from a Christian background.

Paul promoted slavery and lied about a supernatural realm that no one can access. That is why the religious intelligentsia say that God is unknowable and unfathomable.

Need I say more?

Regards
DL

I just recently found this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=youtu.be

I had this other of his works. I like that he is not hung up on the label of "God".

He is too Christian and close to an idol worshiper, I think, but do not hold that against him.

You might enjoy his work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkZg1ZflpJs

Regards
DL

It is not you I hate buddy. It is the fact that you adore a hateful God.

I know I tend to get personal in my speech, but you are the one I am addressing as I cannot convert your imaginary God. Your moral sense and soul are what I speak to.

I feel personally offended when I cannot break through your supernatural and unhealthy thinking, and I guess that that personal offence and disappointment comes out in coarse language as I cannot keep it inside or it would consume me.

You complain that I repeat myself. How long has Christians been repeating the same old bible that is telling you to adore a genocidal God who always kills when he could just as easilly cure?

You adore an evil God and I will not  let you complacently do that as Christianity does too much damage to society with their homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Regards
DL




 

If you have so little respect for the other people on this board, why do you bother posting here? And it isn’t just that you don’t respect anyone here - no one here respects you either. How could we? You are offensively ill-informed about the religions you critique. Just take a look at one of the posts you made above, claiming that Paul “lied about a supernatural realm that no one can access”, when Paul explicitly claimed that we can access Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2). Now I’m sure that you’ll dismiss this incident; atheists in general are dismissive of religious experiences, and you aren’t uniquely guilty of that. You are uniquely guilty of arrogance.

It tells me that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them!

Arrogance born of having the so called religious run and hide from proper discussions and debates.

Their arrogance is born from being slaves.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Christians dislike that I mimic their ways and am just as fundamental to my belief as they are to theirs, if not more, as mine are based on morality.

I am well informed enough to know that a genocidal son murderer should not be respected as a God and that is why they hate me.

Do you really think I care what such morally corrupted people think when they are showing how poorly they think?

I care only for the harm that their putrid beliefs cause to society.

Would you respect me if I praise Hitler and Stalin, two other genocidal psychopaths?

If not, why do you respect those who praise Yahweh and his psychopathic ways?

Or do you give his psychopathic ways a pass just because you think he is a God?

Are you letting fear rule your judgements?

Cowards can never be moral.

I am trying to be moral.

Regards
DL

My point was very straightforward: no one here respects your opinion on religious matters because you are uninformed on the topic of religion. I gave everyone an example of you being uninformed. You ignored my example so that you could repeat the same talking point you’ve reiterated four hundred times before.

The mistake you always make is that you project your own ignorance onto others. You think that because a talking point seems compelling to you, who has never read a book in his life, that same talking point will seem compelling to us, each of whom has read at least one book (probably more). Stop doing that. Put away the street inhalants. Make some friends. Please.

I was referring to your claim that Paul had no direct knowledge of Heaven, in spite of his scriptural claim to the contrary. You can look back through the thread to find my verse citation, if you aren't too busy ignoring the content of this post.

Do you not know how much older than Christianity the notion that we cannot know anything of the unknowable and unfathomable God is? Only liars like Paul can claim such knowledge. If you ask nice I will show you what Gnostic Christians thought of heaven
, if you can get out of supernaturalstupid thinking mode.
 
I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

The religious experience is as old as humanity itself. The idea that God exists, but we cannot know anything about him, is not something anyone has ever believed, but something you might espouse if you’re jealous of those who have had religious experiences.

I have claimed apotheosis. How many Christian do you know that have made the same claim?

Do not include the last guy that I know of that claim he went to heaven and found himself to be  a spot on a butterfly.

Further, if a Christian, then he is claiming belief in Jesus and Jesus himself, in scriptures, says any like him can do everything he did and more.

I see no one doing that and that applies to even those with a mustard seed worth of faith.

Regards
DL