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General Politics => International General Discussion => Topic started by: Make Politics Boring Again on November 11, 2005, 12:58:27 am



Title: World government?
Post by: Make Politics Boring Again on November 11, 2005, 12:58:27 am
So basically the world gets taken over by one single government operating a federalist democratic society. All rights and freedoms that exist in the US Constitution exist in this Earth Constitution.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 11, 2005, 01:09:16 am
Generally in favour, as I am strongly in favour of a world government. Although, it would be unfortunate to have the U.S. constition as it's doctrine. It's alright, but it has its flaws (2nd amendment ;) )


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: ?????????? on November 11, 2005, 01:28:24 am
No, ethnicity would tear any such government up in under 150 years.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Richard on November 11, 2005, 01:54:57 am
So basically the world gets taken over by one single government operating a federalist democratic society. All rights and freedoms that exist in the US Constitution exist in this Earth Constitution.
Provided you add a few amendments such as the ability for states to override federal laws, perhaps....


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Cubby on November 11, 2005, 02:32:18 am
Against

Our different tribes, demographics, societies, etc. are too important to abandon just for some monolithic government. Look how remote the EU is from Europeans, and thats just 450 Million people, not 6 Billion. The bureaucracy would be mind boggling.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Bono on November 11, 2005, 03:08:08 am
Of course not.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Ebowed on November 11, 2005, 03:15:05 am
Against

Our different tribes, demographics, societies, etc. are too important to abandon just for some monolithic government. Look how remote the EU is from Europeans, and thats just 450 Million people, not 6 Billion. The bureaucracy would be mind boggling.


^^^^^^


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Beet on November 11, 2005, 03:20:33 am
World government would have immense advantages and equally immense disadvantages.

Contrary to the popular knee-jerk reaction against world government inevitable among most people, I strongly believe the immediate benefits of world government would, on the whole, be immense. The extension of political rights and freedom, to those regions and peoples who have been denied it, notably in China, the Middle East and Africa for the first time in history is to be considered. Large scale civil wars and genocides such as that in Sudan and Rwanda would be halted and no longer problematic. Further, many poor people would gain economic rights coincident with their political representation; redistributive policies would rapidly deciment world poverty much more quickly than we would see otherwise. Hundreds of millions of people would be pulled out of the most devastating poverty perhaps decades earlier than they would be otherwise. The revenue base and scale achievements possible in such a world society, and the gains from reduced military needs, and from tariff reductions, would make many large-scale economic projects much more feasible. One historical example would be the construction of the Great Wall of China after the unification of that country for the first time in the 3rd century B.C.; a parallel dynamic would exist in a federal world government (although there are international projects such as ISS, these are inevitably plagued by the collective action problem, through which the benefits are dispersed but the costs are not).

The only reason why I oppose world government is because I do not believe that mankind can come up with a single form of government or culture that will be perfect enough so as it would be worth it to entrust humanity's future in this government (or culture). One would not have known, in the 1930s for example, what would happen to the Communist experiment; if it would succeed or fail, and in each case, the particular reasons for either success of failure. Nor would one have known in the 1970s what would become of the German and Japanese models of capitalism compared to the American. Only the passage of time can tell, when varying cultural, economic and political institutions are entrenched across multiple diverse political entities, which is superior in most respects, and what lessons can be learned from each. Hence, it is essential that political, economic and cultural diversity be preserved on a global scale, in order to spur each system and in order that experimentation will continue.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: AkSaber on November 11, 2005, 04:23:04 am
Yuck!! No way.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: David S on November 11, 2005, 11:01:54 am
No! No! No! 1000 times No!

The U.S. is one of the few remaining capitalist countries in the world. Through capitalism we have become the wealthiest and freeist nation in the world. Socialism has produced disasters like the former USSR, East Germany, North Korea, and China (prior to their discovery of doing business with capitalists).  None of those countries enjoyed anywhere near the freedom or prosperty that we do.

If we had a world government the rest of the world would vote for socialist candidates and before long we would be a socialist world. Devoid of the profit motive, innovation would be stifled. Entrepreneurs who worked hard to build successful businesses would have no incentive to do so. The economy would stagnate and eventually collapse. Also, since  socialist philiosophy holds that individual rights may be sacrificed in the name of the common good, individual rights would gradually disappear. ( As someone noted earlier the UN's version of a Bill of Rights does not contain a 2nd amendment.) Eventually you end up with  poverty and oppression, just like all of the communist countries have.  No Thanks!!


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: MasterJedi on November 11, 2005, 11:39:08 am
No! No! No! 1000 times No!

The U.S. is one of the few remaining capitalist countries in the world. Through capitalism we have become the wealthiest and freeist nation in the world. Socialism has produced disasters like the former USSR, East Germany, North Korea, and China (prior to their discovery of doing business with capitalists). None of those countries enjoyed anywhere near the freedom or prosperty that we do.

If we had a world government the rest of the world would vote for socialist candidates and before long we would be a socialist world. Devoid of the profit motive, innovation would be stifled. Entrepreneurs who worked hard to build successful businesses would have no incentive to do so. The economy would stagnate and eventually collapse. Also, since socialist philiosophy holds that individual rights may be sacrificed in the name of the common good, individual rights would gradually disappear. ( As someone noted earlier the UN's version of a Bill of Rights does not contain a 2nd amendment.) Eventually you end up with poverty and oppression, just like all of the communist countries have. No Thanks!!
^^^^^

This is true.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on November 11, 2005, 11:43:53 am
It would obviously have to be extremely devolved (and certainly not based on the US system, which is fairly unique, and for a reason), but in principle it's what I support.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Ye Olde Europe on November 11, 2005, 11:45:35 am
It would obviously have to be extremely devolved (and certainly not based on the US system, which is fairly unique, and for a reason), but in principle it's what I support.

It would depend how exactly the new Constitution and the political system would be structured... but in general I would support the idea.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: The love that set me free on November 11, 2005, 11:46:14 am
It would obviously have to be extremely devolved (and certainly not based on the US system, which is fairly unique, and for a reason), but in principle it's what I support.

Didn't you make a thread on this once where you broke the world up into election districts?


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on November 11, 2005, 11:50:41 am
It would obviously have to be extremely devolved (and certainly not based on the US system, which is fairly unique, and for a reason), but in principle it's what I support.

Didn't you make a thread on this once where you broke the world up into election districts?
I did.

Holy fucking floodgates. Can't we get rid of this shit soon?


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: angus on November 11, 2005, 12:23:00 pm
I do like the name Lapinot so much better than Scooter.  The only person I every knew named scooter was also the first chick I ever did in a moving car, though not the first in any car.  Her brother was driving, actually.  (You might be a redneck if...)  Everytime I head the name scooter I thought about that sordid experience.  Now I only have to hear it on the nightly news, but not on this forum.

Oh, and I vote no.  I don't want US imperialism to create One World Government, nor do I want some other empire making us part of theirs, and frankly I think that having nation states who live side-by-side, in peace, suits me just fine.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on November 11, 2005, 12:35:32 pm
I do like the name Lapinot so much better than Scooter. The only person I every knew named scooter was also the first chick I ever did in a moving car, though not the first in any car. Her brother was driving, actually. (You might be a redneck if...) Everytime I head the name scooter I thought about that sordid experience. Now I only have to hear it on the nightly news, but not on this forum.
Who would name their daughter "scooter"? ???


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Bono on November 11, 2005, 01:34:13 pm
World government would have immense advantages and equally immense disadvantages.

Contrary to the popular knee-jerk reaction against world government inevitable among most people, I strongly believe the immediate benefits of world government would, on the whole, be immense. The extension of political rights and freedom, to those regions and peoples who have been denied it, notably in China, the Middle East and Africa for the first time in history is to be considered. Large scale civil wars and genocides such as that in Sudan and Rwanda would be halted and no longer problematic. Further, many poor people would gain economic rights coincident with their political representation; redistributive policies would rapidly deciment world poverty much more quickly than we would see otherwise. Hundreds of millions of people would be pulled out of the most devastating poverty perhaps decades earlier than they would be otherwise. The revenue base and scale achievements possible in such a world society, and the gains from reduced military needs, and from tariff reductions, would make many large-scale economic projects much more feasible. One historical example would be the construction of the Great Wall of China after the unification of that country for the first time in the 3rd century B.C.; a parallel dynamic would exist in a federal world government (although there are international projects such as ISS, these are inevitably plagued by the collective action problem, through which the benefits are dispersed but the costs are not).

The only reason why I oppose world government is because I do not believe that mankind can come up with a single form of government or culture that will be perfect enough so as it would be worth it to entrust humanity's future in this government (or culture). One would not have known, in the 1930s for example, what would happen to the Communist experiment; if it would succeed or fail, and in each case, the particular reasons for either success of failure. Nor would one have known in the 1970s what would become of the German and Japanese models of capitalism compared to the American. Only the passage of time can tell, when varying cultural, economic and political institutions are entrenched across multiple diverse political entities, which is superior in most respects, and what lessons can be learned from each. Hence, it is essential that political, economic and cultural diversity be preserved on a global scale, in order to spur each system and in order that experimentation will continue.

redestributive policies would increase poverty and the chinese and arabs would vote for ditatorial parties.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: A18 on November 11, 2005, 01:36:30 pm
**** no


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Democratic Hawk on November 11, 2005, 01:39:12 pm
No, who's to say it wouldn't be more feckless and inept than the United Nations and that's saying something

Besides I'm first and foremost a Brit not an Earthling

Dave


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: John Dibble on November 11, 2005, 01:51:04 pm
Hell no, for reasons stated.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: KillerPollo on November 11, 2005, 04:24:08 pm
No! No! No! 1000 times No!

The U.S. is one of the few remaining capitalist countries in the world. Through capitalism we have become the wealthiest and freeest nation in the world. Socialism has produced disasters like the former USSR, East Germany, North Korea, and China (prior to their discovery of doing business with capitalists). None of those countries enjoyed anywhere near the freedom or prosperty that we do.

If we had a world government the rest of the world would vote for socialist candidates and before long we would be a socialist world. Devoid of the profit motive, innovation would be stifled. Entrepreneurs who worked hard to build successful businesses would have no incentive to do so. The economy would stagnate and eventually collapse. Also, since socialist philiosophy holds that individual rights may be sacrificed in the name of the common good, individual rights would gradually disappear. ( As someone noted earlier the UN's version of a Bill of Rights does not contain a 2nd amendment.) Eventually you end up with poverty and oppression, just like all of the communist countries have. No Thanks!!

The most free nation? You have got to be kidding me.
And what DO YOU mean it's one of the FEW remaining capitalist countries in the world? huh? There are A LOT as far as it concerns me.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Richard on November 12, 2005, 12:09:33 am
Look Mexican, I doubt Americans need to learn from you and your country anything.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Platypus on November 12, 2005, 07:42:57 am
following the US system? No way. Following any system? No, thanks.

3 years ago, i'd've been a massive yes. Not anymore.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: dazzleman on November 12, 2005, 03:25:31 pm
I do like the name Lapinot so much better than Scooter. The only person I every knew named scooter was also the first chick I ever did in a moving car, though not the first in any car. Her brother was driving, actually. (You might be a redneck if...) Everytime I head the name scooter I thought about that sordid experience. Now I only have to hear it on the nightly news, but not on this forum.

Oh, and I vote no. I don't want US imperialism to create One World Government, nor do I want some other empire making us part of theirs, and frankly I think that having nation states who live side-by-side, in peace, suits me just fine.

You did a chick in a moving car while her brother was driving?!  You're my idol, man. :P


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: angus on November 12, 2005, 03:30:28 pm
misspent youth, to be sure.

anyway, I still don't want or need One World government.  There are only two ways to do that:  Let the US take over the world or Let the World take over the US.  The amount of taxes it costs to grow the empire to that extent is too much of a burden.  In fact, I think we have already bitten off as much as we can chew, proverbially speaking.  And the other alternative seems just as offensive.  Do you really want some Sudanese slave-trading overlord making your laws?  Or how about Supreme Court Chief Justice Pol Pot?  No thanks.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: minionofmidas - supplemental forum account on November 12, 2005, 03:35:54 pm
Pol Pot is dead. :P And I still want to know who would call their daughter "Scooter".


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: dazzleman on November 12, 2005, 08:39:37 pm
Against

Our different tribes, demographics, societies, etc. are too important to abandon just for some monolithic government. Look how remote the EU is from Europeans, and thats just 450 Million people, not 6 Billion. The bureaucracy would be mind boggling.

^^^^^^^^


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: dazzleman on November 12, 2005, 08:40:54 pm
following the US system? No way. Following any system? No, thanks.

3 years ago, i'd've been a massive yes. Not anymore.

You've wised up.  I guess all that time you spent picking up rubbish at school really did teach you something. :P


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: tweed on November 12, 2005, 10:51:30 pm
This is a terrible idea.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: MaC on November 13, 2005, 10:25:44 pm
So basically the world gets taken over by one single government operating a federalist democratic society. All rights and freedoms that exist in the US Constitution exist in this Earth Constitution.

Wow, Phillip's wrong about what he said.  Supersoulty is waaaaaay smarter than you.  Although it's not saying much.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Beet on November 15, 2005, 03:44:40 pm
So basically the world gets taken over by one single government operating a federalist democratic society. All rights and freedoms that exist in the US Constitution exist in this Earth Constitution.

Wow, Phillip's wrong about what he said. Supersoulty is waaaaaay smarter than you. Although it's not saying much.

I don't get it, Cereal.

Oh damn... he left.
Complaining about what a bitter place this is.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: HamRadioRocks on November 15, 2005, 08:40:20 pm
While I believe in international cooperation (United Nations, Interpol), I strongly believe that we should have many separate and autonomous nations.

I think having one government for the entire world is a bad idea.  What happens if that government screws up and we end up with hyperinflation, the collapse of the monetary system, war, widespread corruption, genocide, persecution, etc.?  When there are many different nations, people have the option of moving to another nation in the event that their livelihood or survival is doomed in their home nation.  If the whole world is under one nation, then there is no such option.

Another advantage of having many different nations is that different ideas can be tried.  When one nation is particularly successful on an issue and another is a miserable failure, this provides valuable guidance to the rest of the world.  Just look at capitalism vs. Communism.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Richard on November 16, 2005, 12:51:00 am
I'd support a world government if I was the supreme ruler.  Imagine for a moment me as Supreme Ruler over the world.  Poverty would be eliminated in 20 years.  Every person on this planet will be well armed and well supplied with ammunition.  Prosperity for all.  Crime will be almost nonexistant.  Daily public executions on the State Broadcasting Network (it will also be the only programming aired by the government).

Ah, that would be a wonderful wonderful world.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: ○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└ on November 16, 2005, 12:55:09 am
I'd support a world government if I was the supreme ruler.  Imagine for a moment me as Supreme Ruler over the world.  Poverty would be eliminated in 20 years.  Every person on this planet will be well armed and well supplied with ammunition.  Prosperity for all.  Crime will be almost nonexistant.  Daily public executions on the State Broadcasting Network (it will also be the only programming aired by the government).

Ah, that would be a wonderful wonderful world.

OK, Stalin.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Richard on November 16, 2005, 01:03:36 am
Please.  I have no intention of murdering anyone or nationalizing any industries.  There will be virtually no government.  The government will be there to provide planetary defense, defend YOUR rights to keep and bear arms and to own property and keep the fruits of YOUR OWN labor, and to enforce contracts.  Your education is clearly lacking in a serious manner.  Consider getting one.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 16, 2005, 01:07:38 am
I would be strongly opposed to a World Government ruled by Richius.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Richard on November 16, 2005, 01:09:19 am
I would be strongly opposed to a World Government ruled by Richius.
I'll include Canada in the name and I'll make my capital Ottawa.  HAPPY?


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on November 16, 2005, 01:10:30 am
I would be strongly opposed to a World Government ruled by Richius.
I'll include Canada in the name and I'll make my capital Ottawa.  HAPPY?

Tempting, but I would still have to pass.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: ?????????? on November 16, 2005, 01:40:34 am
Please.  I have no intention of murdering anyone or nationalizing any industries.  There will be virtually no government.  The government will be there to provide planetary defense, defend YOUR rights to keep and bear arms and to own property and keep the fruits of YOUR OWN labor, and to enforce contracts.  Your education is clearly lacking in a serious manner.  Consider getting one.

Planetary defense from what? Little green men? :P


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Bono on November 16, 2005, 02:57:31 am
Please.  I have no intention of murdering anyone or nationalizing any industries.  There will be virtually no government.  The government will be there to provide planetary defense, defend YOUR rights to keep and bear arms and to own property and keep the fruits of YOUR OWN labor, and to enforce contracts.  Your education is clearly lacking in a serious manner.  Consider getting one.

Never assume virtue is hereditary.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: John Dibble on November 16, 2005, 09:31:17 am
I'd support a world government if I was the supreme ruler. Imagine for a moment me as Supreme Ruler over the world. Poverty would be eliminated in 20 years. Every person on this planet will be well armed and well supplied with ammunition. Prosperity for all. Crime will be almost nonexistant. Daily public executions on the State Broadcasting Network (it will also be the only programming aired by the government).

Ah, that would be a wonderful wonderful world.

How exactly do you plan on eliminating poverty?


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Make Politics Boring Again on November 17, 2005, 12:04:41 am
I'd support a world government if I was the supreme ruler. Imagine for a moment me as Supreme Ruler over the world. Poverty would be eliminated in 20 years. Every person on this planet will be well armed and well supplied with ammunition. Prosperity for all. Crime will be almost nonexistant. Daily public executions on the State Broadcasting Network (it will also be the only programming aired by the government).

Ah, that would be a wonderful wonderful world.

Evening Newscast of the SBN:

*military-like tune plays*
Female announcer: Good evening, comrades.
Male announcer: Good evening. We go now to Dakar, Senegal, where a live execution is about to take place on Goree Island.
*screen changes to a firing squad*

On-the-scene reporter: So ladies, and gentlemen, here you have two men and one woman who are due to be executed by firing squad for being bisexual, which our lord Richius deems to be evil liberal. We are warning you about the insiduousness of liberals.
Commander: Squaaaddddd!!!
*squad aims at prisoners*
AAAIIIIMMMM!!!
FIRE!!
*banging in the distance*
*doctor pronounces prisoners dead, etc*
*camera returns to studio*
Male: Earlier today in Toronto our lord Richius stressed the importance of stamping out the evils of liberalism in the world and how our world will prosper:
*large organized crowd all simultaneously holding up portraits of Richius*

Richius: We need to stamp out liberalism in the world. It is evil. It is terrible. I will defend the world against little green men in outer space.

Female: Our lord Richius also wrote about the evils of liberals today in the Singapore Straits Times. Here is what he had to say:

Quote
Liberals Suck

-by Richius

Liberals really f'in suck. Everything that has gone bad with me is the result of liberal interference in my life. Why if it wasn't for those GD liberals I may actually want to 'hit it' with a woman one time, yeah, damn liberals.

Female: The words of our dear leader should be praised as an example of how our humble earthling should live by.

Male: In the steel mills of the world our great corporate leaders have lead our world to record steel production. This was made possible under the discipline and corporate freedom of our lord Richius. The workers of all steel mills, from Pittsburgh to Cleveland, from Shenyang to Anshan, and from Liverpool to Potsdam, are united to bring more wealth to our corporate masters.

Female: And that concludes our nightly newscast, and thank our lord for our new-found happiness.


Title: Re: World government?
Post by: Richard on November 19, 2005, 02:03:49 am
That gave me a boner.