Talk Elections

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111313238/shooting-at-christchurch-mosque

There are some deeply disturbing images and videos online. It seems the shooter posted on 8chan and live-streamed the event. Pro-trump anti-Islam. Scores dead.

News coming out from New Zealand about a shooting happening live now.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/14/asia/christchurch-mosque-shooting-intl/index.html

4 active crime scenes.

Car bomb.
2 mosques
Another incident still live.

https://www.news.com.au/world/pacific/police-respond-to-shooting-inside-christchurch-mosque/news-story/db75a7aa031b8db068ca7c7e44c4728e

Semi-automatic weapons. Lots of casualties.

No no no please no, eek I want to vomit. Please God no.

This is terrible to hear. And the worst part is that its just getting worse.

From shooter’s manifesto:

()

Basically the entirety of 8chan cheering him on as he did it:

Edit. No 8chan links please.

Shooter allegedly said “Subscribe to Pewdiepie” on the stream just before opening fire.

That site along with 4chan should be nuked off the planet

I'm all for free speech, but there are limits. This is abhorrent.

Of course, a scandanavian, Pewdiepie.

This is terrifying. Apparently a coordinated attack as the AP reports a second mosque shooting.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1106386226267996162

This is why I do not tell random people I am Muslim and why my mosque has security

I don't really wish this sh**t on anyone...but from the video doesn't look like anyone stopped him...he may just be onto his secondary target.

He apparently told the livestream crowd to subscribe to PewDiePie

As an Australian you feel insulated from events like this. New Zealand is a different country but to many of us it still feels like a part of home. Heartbreaking stuff

I know Christchurch mostly as the site of the Parker-Hulme murder case, a media circus from the 1950s that the early Peter Jackson movie Heavenly Creatures (starring a very young Kate Winslet and Melanie Lynskey) dramatizes. This is obviously orders of magnitude worse, and further sinks the probably very skewed impression I have of the place.

To go sincerity mode for a moment, if any Muslim forumites want someone to talk to or vent at about this, I always read my PMs.

Despicable. Now is the time for the whole of the Anglosphere to rise up with one voice, and say "No!" to Islamophobia.

Also, 8chan and 4chan should be banned.

and they are apparently all in that 8chan thread

Apparently the shooter is an Australian. Completely ashamed. Sorry New Zealand

Guardian liveblog here (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/mar/15/christchurch-shooting-injuries-reported-as-police-respond-to-critical-incident-live).

This is internet troll culture, right wing extremism, and violence mixing in the most horrific fashion possible. F*** this guy and f*** 8chan.

The video made me vomit. Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully this asshat gets hung.

One person did. One.

Rest in power to all the victims. White supremacy will never win.

Ardern responds:

https://twitter.com/jacindaardern/status/1106397870628847617?s=21

https://twitter.com/jacindaardern/status/1106398034827440128?s=21

Stay safe my Islamic brethren.

Thank you.

Can we merge the two threads on this?

I don't know if we want the other thread anywhere on this forum, tbh.

I meant in this thread and to hold our own in discussions dude, not violence, I am a civilized person, unlike our haters. I hate violence and war. I would never hurt somebody unless it was self defense or I was conscripted in the military and sent to go fight enemies of America, to which I am loyal to. Both have near 0% chances of occurring.

If the info online about the shooter is correct, he is Australian.

This is horrific. Absolutely horrific. It displays the toxic and hateful alt-right internet culture in its most disgusting and violent manner.

I only hope that sane people involved in these circles will learn from this incident and withdraw from these foul circles- those that cheered this attack are truly lost.

I’m sorry if I offended anybody too much, I’m really overwhelmed and scared now, I am just going to head out for the night. Take care and peace to all.

I have to say this is an especially sad story because of how resiliant Christchurch has been over the past few years since the earthquakes. It seemed like one of those few cases where a major trauma like that actually led to positive community building, rather than division.

Why? Because someone who was rightfully scared spoke his mind at his current state? That doesn’t warrant a removal nor a separation.

From the Guardian quoting Mike Bush, who is the NZ Police commissioner.

CNN UPDATE.

Explosive devices were attached to vehicles.
New Zealand police commissioner Mike Bush told reporters that there were multiple improved explosive devices attached to vehicles as part of the attack.

Bush said these had been "made safe by the defense force."
"This goes to the seriousness of the situation," he said.
He said that police were not assuming the situation was limited to Christchurch at this stage.

CNN UPDATE.

Still no death toll from police, identity of victims not known.
New Zealand police commissioner Mike Bush said again there have been "multiple fatalities" but couldn't say at this point how many. "It is significant," Bush said.

Bush added the identities of all the victims weren't known at this stage.
The New Zealand police press conference has now wrapped up. Bush said there would be more information available soon.

4 people in custody, 3 men, and 1 woman.

Feel sick to my stomach about this. A lot of things I want to say but can't put it into words. For now I'll just wish Muslims to stay safe.

Have not seen this video (or where it might be posted) and I don't think I want to either.

My local TV channel indicated that there are reports that those killed might be around 50 individuals.
Horrible.

The shooter literally live-streamed the event and encouraged viewers to subscribe to PewDiePie.

This was his lost post:

https://i.imgur.com/b2MZJDc.png

He was a total memer.

Ditto. My heart breaks for those personally affected, but also for all Muslims.

iAs always, Ironic the descendants of people who murdered the local inhabitants and took their land call peaceful immigrants "invaders".

Also can we maybe not give this walking cancer pile attention by spreading the video around?

While certain people may go too far in their attempts to cast blame, calling for people 'not to bring politics into this' is foolish. This terrorist attack was an explicitly political event

I actually f'ing cried when I saw all of this, because it reminds me it could happen to me or my family when we go to the masjid, I will made Dua and pray for the families.

I made the profound mistake of watching the terrorist's video. The most disturbing thing of the many disturbing things about it was that it's remarkable how similar it looks to those stupid video games these people play. I don't expect to have good dreams tonight.

I saw it on accident and now am legit having a big mental breakdown over it. I can't ever unsee those images or unhear the gunshots and screaming. It made me think about my family, I won't even go to Friday prayers tomorrow because of this.

You can’t let the monsters clout your mind with fear my brother. You must find the strength, either from yourself or through the assistance of your god if you must, to be brave tomorrow and pray with your family in public. Pray for thankfulness of your families health and prosperity, and for god to grant the quick recovery of those harmed in this instance and elsewhere by the evil in this world. If you must, pray for the forgiveness in you to these monsters soon to be judged by your lord himself. Rest soon and well, but for the good of us all go show how brave you are to the world tomorrow.

Why is the video even being shared, or rather, why is it allowed to be? Anyone caught sharing it, probably filling the killers with pride that their "work" is being seen by others, should be charged and sentenced as if they were part of the attack. Any media outlet sharing it needs shut down.

Don’t confuse all Austrians with the growing mass of evil sweeping Austria. That same evil is all around us, yet is being fought and rejected by the Austrians who reject the rise in Fascism.

The Nazis filmed their own atrocities. You just don't hear the jibes and comments they made on their films.

Life without parole for this guy. Don't make him a martyr.

New Zealand doesn't have the death penalty.

RIP, and my condolences to all the families involved :(

30 deaths (I think?) is a big tragedy and a big terrorist attack.

Also, I wonder if 8chan (if it was really involved and supporting the attack) will be closed.

Please don't slander New Zealand, and please don't make dumb, nasty posts about this tragedy. New Zealand and the vast, vast majority of people in it are tolerant, compassionate and peace-loving, and I echo Jacinda's message that those responsible are not at all representative of New Zealand.

This is a horrifying tragedy.

Be mindful of what you're posting here.

I personally don't blame New Zealand--I'd blame Australia if anything since it was their spawn that carried this out.

Though this comes off a bit as being less concerned with the people who were killed, or lost loved ones, and more concerned with what it does to the country's image.

I'll merge these threads later. A gentle reminder not to share 8chan links or links to the video.

The 'funny' thing is, posting a mass murder on the internet is exactly what ISIS used to do.

The 28-year-old alleged Christchurch gunman identified as former Grafton local. NSW Australia.

()

Brenton Tarrant attended Grafton High School before getting his qualifications in fitness.

He used an AR-15 and similar weapons to the Las Vegas shooting.

No military training.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/10904744

Death toll is already 49 and rising. Heartbreaking.

New Zealand was mostly uninhabited when the British settlers arrived.

Ultimately, the place they were born is not the main contributor. What happened in New Zealand is the culmination of the alt-right ideology fermented on sites such as 8-chan where he literally posted he was gonna shoot folks and they cheered him on.

Indeed, but I'm sure someone might be very tempted to kill him in prison.

In an awful way, I think we've seen hard evidence that restrictive gun laws have an effect. I can't think of any other reason why Australians would travel to a country with laxer gun laws to do something they otherwise had ample targets to do at home.

It is virtually impossible for Australians to get these guns used today.

Never seen one.

If you are caught with them illegally, you will face jail time.

There has been a slow build up of anti-immigrant anti-muslim sentiment worldwide since the Syrian civil war, so targetting NZ or Australia or Tender is completely pointless.

This man is solely responsible.

After Port Arthur in 1996, fully and semi-automatic military grade rifles were banned in Australia and we have not had a mass shooting since.

Lol no

Ever heard of the Maori people?

I'm quite certain that there were no sheep in New Zealand before Europeans arrived. By New Zealand standards that means it was uninhabited.

Absolutely sickening.

Terrible tragedy :[

What happened to the shooters? I don't have much time to read up on everything that's going on. Are they still at large?

3 men and one women were arrested in connection with these shootings.

Guys, I understand emotions are running high, but I've just deleted (mostly without infractions) questionable posts of all variety and attempts at thread derailing. Please keep it decent, as befitting the tragic occasion.

Frankly I'm surprised it took this long for the chans to produce another mass murderer considering the depths to which they've sunk in past years.

I'm starting to be of two minds about internet anonymity in general; it seems that a lot of people simply have little to no independent moral understanding and need social pressure to act half-decently.

Just one? Doubt. More are in custody, more supported him, more share his ideology,  there are bad apples in every nation. This is not the first or last time tragedies like this will exist.

We can't keep burying our heads in the sand. 49 innocent people were killed at their place of worship. I might not agree with certain values of Islam but this is nothing less than a horrific terrorist attack.  The alt right culture needs to be condemned and the anonymous trolls need to be outed. There is blood on people's hands.

As much as it pains me to to say this you should be going after us Australians if you want a country to blame. That's where the shooter was from, and our media and political culture is far more likely to have inspired him than New Zealand

And ascribing collective guilt is no different to holding muslims responsible when the reverse happens. You get that, right?

In a 74-page "manifesto" on the internet, the main Christchurch shooter writes - among a lot of standard right-wing conspiracy crap - that he was inspired and endorsed by the Norwegian mass shooter Anders Behring Breivik (who killed 77 in shootings in 2011)  :o

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/rightwing-extremist-wrote-manifesto-before-livestreaming-christchurch-shooting (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/rightwing-extremist-wrote-manifesto-before-livestreaming-christchurch-shooting)

Praying for you and the whole Muslim community today. Please do not let this silence your community. Freedom of religion is so important. Be proud of who you are and stand strong. We are with you. <3

One of them have been freed since then.

There are some bad apples amongst us as well, yes.

This. That said, stay home to feel safe if you need to. Don't feel like you have to do anything to prove anything to anyone. Take care of yourself and know that you are loved and there are many of us praying for you.

Just watched the full video of what he did, and yeah, I hope NZ has the death penalty, as I wouldn't want my taxes wasted on a piece of meat that doesn't deserve to live.

The white writings on his gun are names of various European national heroes/battles against the Ottomans, so he definitely did research and planned this for a long time.

May the Dead Rest in Peace and I hope the wounded survive.

Also, another request: Please, please don't watch or share the video or clips of it or anything.

The culprit was a terrorist. The goal was, in addition to the deaths, to cause fear. Watching the video only allows that victory. Just know that the deaths happened: that horror is enough.

Edited to add: The Dangerous Spread of Extremist Manifestos (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/christopher-hasson-was-inspired-breivik-manifesto/583567/)

This article is from February, when we thankfully averted a mass killing. The killing being discussed now was possibly also inspired by the person mentioned in this article.

When was the last time YouTube recommended an ISIS video to you? It doesn't because they make sure it doesn't. Yet why can't I escape recommendations for alt right/white nationalist vids or memes? Young people are being radicalised and we're not doing enough about it. 'It's just memes' is plausable deniability.

I think that internet culture played a role but I don't think that anonymity is the whole story.  I'm protective about disconnecting my online and offline lives bar with people that I've learned to trust and I think that often leads to better conversation and discussions.

The issue for me is a couple of things but the primary one is the weaponisation of jokes, memes and "irony" to normalise what are distasteful and disgusting views.  The idea is to present something as it is a joke to give yourself plausible deniability while believing the ideas spread.  You can go back to when it started or which movements far right people latched themselves on to to try and get some amount of popular support but clearly radicalisation in this form is something that we need to address and need to address soon.  I don't think that its something that there really can be a legal solution to; realistically the answer has to the the old fashioned but hard to do thing where decent, ordinary people call out people who say such things either to convince them to change their mind (or realise the social harm in not being seen to have) or to have them not have their views accepted in polite society.  Its a slog I admit and not easy, but solutions to these things never are.

Yes, this is a good time to remind there's no such thing as assured anonymity in the internet.

Which is something I should have mentioned - just need to look at the many poor people who've been doxxed for crimes like... talking about feminism?

This story is heartbreaking.

Kalwejt, why are you constantly removing my posts ?

First off, it's neither right nor appropriate time. Second, this kind of ahat-aboutism, no matter how cleverly disguised, is simply unacceptable. Just as well as trying to normalize, whether intentionally or unintentionally, the motivations between that utterly despicable act. And it's not like an occassional slip, when one considers your behavior.

If you have a post deleted/moderated and disagree with the decision, try to take it up via proper channels (Atlas board or by messaging moderators), instead of repeating your offense in the same thread.

Also: take note I removed posts that were calling you out, sometimes in pretty direct manner.

This is unacceptable.

You are deleting my posts randomly out of a personal assumption that I'm "disguising" or "normalizing" something ?

WTF ?

That's not moderating but dictatorial censorship.

Tender, I'm not going to let you derail this thread by making it all about yourself. Use proper chanel (PM modadmins or go to the Atlas board) if you have a complain.

I think YouTube makes suggestions based on what you've been watching. I watched like 2 or 3 alt right videos once out of curiosity and I inmediately got a ton more and had to manually tell YouTube I'm not interested.

I imagine if you saw ISIS recruitment videos you'd get a lot more. Same with any other hateful ideology.

At the end of the day, for businesses it's all about making money.

Fraser Anning is scum btw.

Four were arrested within a few hours of the shooting, I don't know if there were more than that though.

Just disgusting.

Another completely ghastly case of one of the nastier parts of the internet Becoming Real, moving out of its basement and going on a killing spree. Vile.

Absolutely awful. :(

This is awful in every way imaginable , and I hope the person who did this gets the worst type of punishment for his evil actions.

I just read that an attendee at the mosque said 'Hello brother' to the gunman as he approached and my heart just f-cking broke.

One of the attackers had written on his rifle the name of the Spanish neo-Nazi Josué Estébanez de la Hija, who murdered young leftwing activist Carlos Palomino in a hate crime occurred in Madrid in 2007.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/03/15/inenglish/1552653061_637620.html

The shooter also wrote the names of some Middle Age warriors who fought Muslim armies during the Reconquista, such as the viscount of Bearn and the mythic Asturian noble Don Pelayo

Yes, the Quran teaches us in 49:12 to treat others without prior assumptions. Many including myself are sinners who do not live up to it or claim that other ways are the real answer. But that man was following the true meaning of Islam, I hope he survived, if not, let his family find comfort because we have their backs.

Not surprising tbh.

I hope you are doing well. Today we've seen the best from the Muslim community and my heart goes out to you all.

On a strictly personal note I must confess I had no idea Bagel is a Muslim.

Stay strong, pal.

Thank you for all the support, true friends stand in the darkest hours.

Yeah, thank you, it’s appreciated. Sorry for any issues that I may have caused here yesterday, I’ll keep things tame from my end now.

You've caused no issues, Bagel. It's just some answers to your original, perfectly understandable, post took the thread in undesirable direction.

We had a cop and sheriff at our mosque today, Idk why as the imam didn't call them. But it was not a pleasant service today, we were all upset and made prayers and dua for the families and the victims

The gay community and the Muslim community can, at times, be far apart. But we both have our communities and our places where we want to be safe. Attacks/bigotry can cross oceans like ripples and feel very raw and very personal even if we don't know the place or know the people. I hope it's not as raw for you tomorrow as it is today.

An absolutely sickening massacre. RIP to all the victims

Calling this "Islamophobic," a cutesy term typically used in the same breadth as listing microaggressions, doesn't do justice to the evil of this.   This was an Anti-Muslim terrorist massacre.

This has remarkable similarities to July 22 2011 in Norway.

This individual has been reported this morning on Australian TV as:

1. Having a Manifesto written in 2016 or 2017 after visiting France and Spain that he was going to plan an attack.
2. When working in Australia, his boss said there was never any demonstrated political opinions and was a very good worker he gave his fitness lessons to children for free.
3. Referencing historical fights with Islamic forces from the Dark Ages.
4. Visited North Korea.
5. Visited Pakistan in 2017.
6. Made money for travel from crypto-currency.
7. Had an arenal of semi-automatic weapons.

Therefore, we may see a court case where he talks about his manifesto and ideology.

To do that, he will need to plead "not guilty" to gain an audience in court to present his case.

"We must fight Islam by doing what ISIS does" always striked me as a peculiar "logic".

Then again, there wasn't that much difference between Hitler and Stalin either.


RIP to the victims of this cruelty.

"Anything we can do" clearly doesn't include the least he can do like recognizing the motivation of these terrorist scumbags. Trump always finds a way to make a tragic situation even worse, even when it's thousands of miles across the Pacific ocean.

Given the Tree of Life shooter's Gab account and this scumbag's activities on 4chan/8chan, it really feels like law enforcement needs to pay more attention to the so-called "Dark web" to find these scumbags before they pull of an attack.

What a nightmare. Horrible.

They will just find another platform or do it by themselves, the issue has to be dealt with on a bigger level.

4chan/8chan aren't even the dark web. They're easily accessible from search engines and most socially awkward men of a certain Millennial sub-generation (myself included) have distinct memories of using them extensively as teenagers (relatively well-adjusted people having, of course, outgrown them years and years ago). That's part of the problem.

I feel kind of proud I've never been to 4chan and haven't really heard of 8chan until now. 

I was on 4chan way back in like 07-08 when it was mostly cat and anime memes, this is the first I've heard of 8chan at all.

I just read that in the second attack location, the caretaker of the center, actually successfully took the guy to the mat and threw his gun out, causing him to run. He saved many lives in doing so. This is a hero of the tallest order.

Hey man since this forum won't let me message you yet, I just wanted to offer my condolences.  On a previous account of mine I trolled you with all sorts of racist bullsh**t.  I now realize that not only is it, well, wrong to harass people with racist bullsh**t, posting that sort of stuff also absolutely  contributed to the culture of bigotry that has enabled attacks like this against your people.  I want you to know that there are millions of people, both here and around the world, who stand in solidarity with our Muslim brothers and will do everything to combat Islamophobia in our communities.  Much love <3

I was wrong to assume an event like this was more likely in the US (with lax gun laws) or Europe (which has seen a lot of extremist Muslim terror attacks).

Turns out that NZ‘s gun laws are not as strict as I would have imagined and they are reformed now ... (which is good).

I thought NZ would be more like the UK in terms of gun laws, but they are more like the US.

8chan is for the people who were literally so awful they got banned from 4chan. Which is basically impossible in the first place.

Once this guy got his gun license in Dec 2017, he could pretty much purchase whatever he liked except semi-automatic weapons. He did not possess the right class for an AR-15 weapon.

Short version:

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-16/new-zealand-gun-control-laws/10907550

Long version with real life context:

Guns are more accepted in NZ for hunting, which on the south Island of New Zealand, includes bore, goat and deer.

Very popular with young guys over there.

Pig hunting in NZ is something where they let out three or four dogs wearing puncture proof GPS located vests, and they hunt the boars. The dogs have a particular role in the group with the lead dog wearing more protection.

The humans then use a GPS tracker on the dogs to then focus in on the wild boar once they stop, meaning the dogs have trapped the pig.

Then the hunter arrives, pulls out the AR-15 or the knife and sticks the swine in the gizzard. Gruesome.

(Warning: the following video shows young men in NZ running around with guns killing pigs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCw0NrnEPhg

13:22 Putting on a GPS belt.

17:35 shows a guy shooting a pig whilst another pig is letting out it's last squeals of life as it is attacked by a pack of hunting dogs.

I cannot stand the sight of blood, but I guess if you live in south island of NZ, this is what you do with your brothers.

National pastime.

This is pretty much. Apparently 4chan was 'censoring' them in some way.

Brief history lesson: 8chan started formally around 2013, but gained prominence a year later among Gamergaters when somehow they managed to annoy 4chan enough to get booted off, likely because of the truly stupid amounts of doxxing they indulged in.

8chan states that only strictly illegal content is banned, so it has very loose laws, to put things charitably. You all know what that means, hence the fact why we've heard so much about the internet's problem with child pornography over the years.

The most infamous of its subs is /baphomet/, which is used to generally coordinate harassment attempts such as SWATting, and releasing personal information about targets.

If this guy bought a gun in New Zealand legally then NZ's gun laws are even laxer than the US's in this case since it's almost impossible for a foreign national to legally buy a gun in the US. Green card holders/permanent residents can but it doesn't sound like this guy had the New Zealand equivalent, he was just an Australian visiting NZ.

"If you are a citizen or permanent resident of Australia you don't need to apply for a visa to live and work in New Zealand. You can be granted a visa on arrival at the border."

https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/why-choose-nz/compare-new-zealand/australia

The same thing goes for EU citizens living in another EU country, i.e. you are to be treated equally as a citizen, which also applies for gun licenses.

Update on this guy, his name is Abdul Aziz. He is originally from Kabul Afghanistan, and thank God he survived the attack.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-zealand-shooting-man-abdul-aziz-who-chased-new-zealand-mosque-shooter-hailed-as-a-hero/?ftag=CNM-00-10aac3a

Not surprising that this hero is Pashtun, those are some of the most brave and resourceful fighters that the world has known.

Reddit is trying to sweep the racists under the rug by pretending to do action, they banned r/WatchPeopleDie when the mods there swore to not post the video, but leaves the cesspool supporting it all the way. I’m referring to the bot infested r/The_Donald.

Things have gotten so bad that on r/Socialism and r/AgainstHateSubreddits there is a campaign to ban that cesspool.

Media reports coming in that the gun shooting range where the gunman practiced had a culture of extremism.

Whatever that means.

But of interest, an individual was so concerned with the behaviour of the men at the gun club that he reported them to Police.

And it appears the Police dismissed them as "crazies".

You cannot blame this on a gun club.
You cannot blame this on Chelsea Clinton.
You cannot blame this on Australasian gun laws.

It's more complex.

Basically doing exactly what the terrorist wanted.
Not exactly sending a very strong response.

I think the terrorist probably wanted more guns tbh.

The terrorism wanted us to kill ourselves over memes and stereotypes. The worldwide rejection of this notion is the only way to snub him.

He very specifically stated he chose guns because he wanted to create conflict over gun control.

Well who cares what the c**nt wanted just do what every other sane country does after a massacre... it worked with the U.K. and Australia.

Giving into the desires of terrorists is weak.

His manifesto says at length that he wants a full-scale race war over gun control in the United States (which I think you and I can probably agree is a bizarre and fanciful notion; a race war in the United States wouldn't be over gun control and a civil war in the United States over gun control 1. isn't going to happen and 2. wouldn't be particularly racialized). Political consensus-building on gun control in New Zealand goes completely without mention. Don't be disingenuous.

I’ve been a fan of Ardern’s for a while now but I gotta say, she’s really impressed me the way she’s stepped up and dealt with this. Especially considering she’s one of the youngest heads of state in the world and she’s only been in office a year. Must be nice to have a head of state who’s not a raving lunatic sociopath...

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/christchurch-mosque-shooting-faces-dead-missing-and-injured

My sister loves her too.

She feels.guilt because she received the manifesto before the shooting and did not tell the police. Realistically, nobody could have done anything with it in the time available.

I think she is clearly in a difficult position, and now she can do something about gun control.

This is not the first mass shooting on the South Island of NZ.

"Out of the Blue" (2006) is a stunningly produced film about David Gray, a gun enthusiast who lost the plot in a small town near Dunedin not far from where this new gunman lived.

Wikipedia description:

Out of the Blue (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_the_Blue_(2006_film))

Trailer

https://youtu.be/35M3jSusb-w

Highly recommended in the context of the current topic of gun control. A real heart-ripping film that will bring you to tears.

Up until two days ago, this was NZ's worst gun massacre.

Sorry to be pedantic, but Arden is head of Government.  The Queen is head of State.

We need more stories like this:

Pittsburgh Jews Reach Out to Christchurch Muslim Community After Attack on Mosques (https://www.algemeiner.com/2019/03/17/pittsburgh-jews-reach-out-to-christchurch-muslim-community-after-attack-on-mosques/)

And I'll still be saying what I'm saying now. Giving into the desires of terrorists is weak. Especially when the issue of guns had nothing to do with this event. The terrorist made it very clear there were other methods he could have used to kill so many people. But it's useful to know that so many people are so simple minded to see it as another "muhhh less guns would fix all of our problems" event instead of what actually caused someone to carry out the act of violence, Jacinda included.

Again, the manifesto says nothing one way or the other about making public opinion in New Zealand converge on gun control measures as one of the terrorist's goals. What it does talk a lot about is increasing the salience of gun control as a knee-jerk wedge issue in the US--in other words, exactly what you're contributing to in this thread.

Fhtagn, do you ever get tired of arguing in bad faith? Serious question.

The irony here is so rich that it just bumped Donald Trump’s place down a notch on the Forbes Richest People list.

Turns out the Christchurch killer has visited my district last year (Krimml Waterfalls) + Salzburg City and Vienna.

He also was in Bavaria and several Eastern European + Balkan countries to visit sites of historic battles against the Ottoman Empire.

https://derstandard.at/2000099768198/Christchurch-Attentaeter-postete-mehrere-Fotos-aus-Oesterreich

What a POS:


The Hill: Full Article (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/434351-limbaugh-suggests-without-evidence-that-new-zealand-attacker-is-a-leftist)

I mean most of the right wing posters on this thread (dabeav, fhtagn, etc.) seem to be implying this as well. Completely delusional.

I mean, he did explicitly say he was a communist at one point in his life.

"disillusioned leftist/communist" seems to be a gateway to the far right community--a few people I knew in the past ended up going that same direction, with their twitters becoming filled with antisemitism and regrets of prior leftist views.

Doesn't matter what he was.

His manifesto is full of contradictions, and as we all know, both the Right and the Left are capable of such things.

Crazy ethno-nationalists sometimes do stuff like this, and crazy Left wing guerillas kidnap and murder alike.

Look, we're all Extremely Online here. We all know exactly what this creature is, even if explaining things to anyone who is not Extremely Online is... difficult.

Yup...

Didn't you say you were a Nazi at one point in your life?

No?

So you still are one?

Jacinda Ardern has been put onto the Burj Khalifa in Dubai:

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Nice.

Reuters: Austria's Kurz confirms link between Christchurch attacker and Identitarian Movement (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-newzealand-shootout-austria/austrias-kurz-confirms-link-between-christchurch-attacker-and-identitarian-movement-idUKKCN1R80NO?il=0)

Looks like the Austrian government will crack down on the now.

Yes he did have IEDs but those didn't go off, the guns significantly worsened the situation and its irresponsible to increase his ability to kill so many people. People realize assault weapons aren't necessary for hunting, many hunters have been handing them in voluntarily and are happy to give up those weapons as it's better for society not to have them. The key reason the US has so many mass shootings (and other gun deaths) than everyone else isn't that Americans are naturally more violent people, its because of the absurd looseness of US gun laws.

Yes, "link" in terms of a large donation they received + the FPÖ was very quick yesterday to distance themselves from the Identitarian Movement (which they had many contacts with over the past years and which served as a "talent agency" for the party).

Now, the FPÖ says: "we have never had any intercourse with these people" (LOL) and the FPÖ media team only yesterday or so deleted a post from Strache where he praised the Identitarians a few years ago.

Also: it seems Martin Sellner (the IM leader) only became aware of that donation (1.500€ btw) from the serial killer after the attack. Of course, at the time of the donation he thought he was only a guy from Australia/New Zealand, sympathetic to their cause. And because of that donation only (and no other links to him), it will be very difficult for ÖVP+FPÖ to actually dissolve the IM. A donation alone is not a reason enough to dissolve a group like this. They need to engage in serious criminal offenses, which until was not the case.

https://derstandard.at/2000100336603/FPOe-und-Identitaere-Zusammen-auf-Demos-beim-Wirt-und-im

https://derstandard.at/2000100291943/Bundesregierung-prueft-Aufloesung-der-Identitaeren

The NYT has a very informative article about the Christchurch terrorist and the Austrian Identitarians:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/world/europe/new-zealand-attack-europe-far-right.html

Tarrant has been to Austria with a rental car last November for a week (coming from Hungary by train), the Interior Ministry confirmed, and travelled a total of 2.000 km in the country (almost 1.500 miles), which is a lot for a small country like Austria ...

He also visited my district.

There has been a heated debate today in the Austrian parliament about connections of Tarrant and the Identitarians here and the connections of the FPÖ to them:

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The SPÖ tried hard to connect the FPÖ with the Identitarians and therefore to the terrorist. We will have to wait and see if the FPÖ will drop in the polls as a result of it (like they did early last year after their far-right fraternity scandal).

https://orf.at/stories/3116796

Right move by the Austrian government.

Martin Sellner‘s ESTA visa waiver application to the US has been cancelled:

https://www.krone.at/1893354

This means he cannot visit the US any longer and his US girlfriend Brittany Pettibone and they also cannot marry in the US this summer.

Sellner goes on a rant and blames Strache, Kurz and Trump for it.

more Americans are killed by fists than all rifles combined

I think the terrorist wanted to tear society apart by turning people against people, brother against brother, and nation against nation. I fail to see how gun control measures meaningfully plays into that, as it had an opposing effect by building a consensus in New Zealand in the first place.

ok.  I was just pointing out that a tiny TINY fraction of people are killed by the much talked about "assault weapons".  It's an interesting fact because it wouldn't seem that way by the talking points.

The new "Profil" magazine cover:

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Kurz speaking a word of power (in the direction of his coalition partner FPÖ):

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https://kurier.at/politik/inland/kurz-ruegt-fpoe-kein-umgang-mit-dieser-rechtsextremen-bewegung/400453402

"An Adelaide man charged after allegedly posting comments online in support of the Christchurch terrorist attack has lost his bid to be allowed to use the internet."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-02/alleged-christchurch-supporter-fails-to-overturn-internet-ban/10963092

Imagine if the Australian Government ran the Atlas Forums.

I'm pleasantly surprised given Kurz's overall image and style.

Tarrant also sent donations worth 1.000s of €s to the French Identitarians, not just the Austrians ones ...


https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/christchurch-gunman-brenton-tarrant-repeatedly-donated-to-european-extremists-report-2017932

I've considered Kurz to be a PR project and a useful idiot for the far right, so I'm pleasantly surprised now.

We need to wait and see. Maybe he has the skills to drive the ÖVP up to 40% and the FPÖ below 20% in the long run ...

Gun laws changed almost instantly.

Credit where it is due. You don't see this in the USA after a mass shooting.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12221141