Talk Elections

???

1. The American government doesn't effect Israel much.

2. The GOP exagerrates the difference between themselves and the Democrats on Israel.

jews care about other issues?

Because very few American Jews vote solely based on Israel policy, and most Democrats are pro-Israel as well.

Because they are American not Israeli.

Well, there are multiple reasons.

1. Geography- Where you live has a lot to do with how you vote. Most Rurals vote Republican, and most Cities vote D. A core constituency of Cities happens to be Jews. From Miami to New York, Newark to the Bay Area, most Jews live in highly urban areas, with very few living in Rural or even Suburban areas.
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2. History- The Democratic Party has a long history with Jews. For the past 100 years, from 1916-2016, Jews have voted for the Democrats in every election except in 1920(This was due in large part to the Socialist candidate Debs). Even during the sweeps of 1972, and 1984, the Jewish vote held firm for the Democrats. This long history has both bolstered D strength with the community, and also kept many Conservative Jews in the D fold(see: Selma).
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(Graph courtesy of Comrade Funk)

3. Israel- As many others have noted on this thread, Israel is not an all-consuming issue for Jews. In fact, in a recent survey, Jews were actually one of the most sympathetic groups towards the Palestinian cause. The idea that Jews are single-issue voters on Israel has as much proof as the idea that Hispanics only vote based on Immigration issues, or Muslims only vote for candidates that uphold the Saudi alliance.


There are more reasons as well, such as the fact that many Jews come from more Working Class backgrounds, or that the Labor movement in the US was heavily supported by Jews fighting for better conditions, but these 3 are kinda the main ones.

A history of being discrimated against tends to make people vote against candidates who preach religion, militarism, war, and patriotism.

How did literally everyone in this thread miss that OP was trolling?

Because, sadly, many posters on this forum would unironically ask something like this.

Zaybay, where is that data from? If Reagan really did worse with Jewish voters in 1984 than 1980, it does indicate that foreign policy re: Israel is a huge vote-mover. But I'm skeptical.

Yeah, Comerade Funk made it by going back into the election files. Its a pretty great graph.

Anyway, while you could make such a connection, there really isnt any correlation elsewhere. Its much more of a coincidence than anything else(it seems a lot of Jewish voters in 1980 went to Anderson who would normally vote Democratic, so just like with Debs and Wallace, Im not sure if using such numbers when a 3rd party did rather well is analytically wise).

In America, Jews disproportionately tend to...

(1) Have college degrees
(2) Live in urban areas

Those things, particularly when taken together, make it extremely unlikely that someone is going to vote Republican.

If Republicans really want to win a larger share of the Jewish vote, they should start a campaign to discourage young Jews from attending college and convince them to go live in places like Huntington, WV and Cape Girardeau, MO. Over time, they will "assimilate" to their new surroundings (of course, they will also probably stop identifying as Jewish).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews#Significant_Jewish_population_centers


The Top 8 in this List are all overwhelmingly Democratic cities

Also, considering most American Jews are Reform\Conservative and Israel is literally repeatedly spitting in their faces, so they probably increasingly care less about this issue.


Sometimes, it's better just not to post than to hint at antisemitic tropes

This is true, but Jews have been voting Democratic far longer than other urban/upscale suburban college-educated white groups have been.  They were some of the strongest supporters of FDR and have been solidly Dem since.  It is surprising that Hillary did worse than Kerry with Jewish voters, for example.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections

There is strong Democratic ancestry at play here, on top of the contemporary factors associated with Democratic voting, such as being a college-educated person residing in an urban area.

As for Kerry, I wouldn't be surprised if many Jews thought "You're unpatriotic if you oppose my war" sounded like Hitler calling them "un-German".

Please explain why your delusional mind sees this as an anti-Semitic trope. Or do you see all Jews as Israeli? That would seem to be an anti-Semitic trope to me.

...What the hell is this.

No, it's that Bush's campaign was openly, unapologetically, and blatantly Christian in a way that makes non-Christians deeply uncomfortable (and which no GOP candidate has done since).

You were very clearly hinting at the "double loyalty" sh**t that asks Jews to choose their loyalty. The existence of the Jewish state is just the recent development in this trope.

American Jews are indeed Americans, but that doesn't change the fact that they CAN let Israel influence their politics, just like Ukrainian Americans can be influenced by Ukraine policy and Palestinian Americans by Palestinian policy. For some reason, no one is looking at the latter two examples crookedly. I'm not implying you're an antisemite or anything (though that neat recommend feature tells me Atlas' biggest antismite delights in your calling me delusional), but these themes, like "double loyalty", are ingrained in many people's minds and understanding it is important.

I was hinting at nothing. I find this question which repeatedly comes up incredible inane (the question being any variation of "why do Jews vote left if the left is anti-Israel"). Although the OP is a red avatar it is almost exclusively asked by the right wing who expect American Jews to suddenly vote Republican because Trump is so pro-Israel. The only accusation of dual loyalty comes from the likes of Trump and the GOP who expect American Jews to start voting GOP because of the GOP's support and the Democrats perceived lack of support for Israel (remember Trump's "your" PM comment?)

My comment was merely meant to point out the absurdity of expecting American Jews political habits to move in a uniform motion with the DEM/GOP treatment of Israel.

Alright, I do think it could've been worded better but maybe it's my nuanced attention to these things :P And oh, yeah, I remember Trump's comment and I think it's extremely inane and not much better than the "all about the Benjamins" comment. Of course, I think accusations of double loyalty come from the far-left too, but that's another discussion.

People have done a good job of covering the reasons why Jews tend be liberal and vote Democratic, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned that many American Jews don't approve of Trump's handling of Israel (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/poll-u-s-israeli-jews-divided-over-trump-western-wall-settlements-1.6158927). Compared to Israeli Jews, American Jews are much more favorable towards a two-state solution and conciliatory policies towards Palestinians.

The Republicans weren't consistently "the party of Israel" before 9/11.

Israel really is not a particularly salient issue to most American Jews. They care about domestic policy first and foremost, things like gun control and women’s rights and healthcare. Most Jews don’t have the same particularistic attitude that evangelical Christians do, and instead see social justice at the corner of Judaism. They were once a persecuted minority, and now that they have assimilated their duty is to help those who are less fortunate than them.

Most Jews that I know are far more concerned about white supremacy on the right than anti-Zionism on the left. The close GOP-Israel relationship isn’t warming Jews to the GOP, instead it’s just pushing them away from Israel. And the anti-Israel left is irrelevant because a lot of Jews actually agree with what they’ve been saying.

I should also point out that people don't like being told that they should vote a certain way for their own good and some people vote based on their values and not their self-interests.

The issue wasn't positioned as front and center back then, but if you were very pro-Israel, you wouldn't be dissuaded from voting Republican because you felt they weren't sufficiently pro-Israel.

The closest you ever got to that was George H. W. Bush's first term, and he underwent a dramatic course correction as he geared up for reelection, in no small part to try to placate the increasingly powerful evangelicals in his party.

There were people like Paul Findley and Charles Percy who expressed skepticism about the US-Israel relationship, but they never exercised any real influence on that issue.

The democratic party is trending more pro-Israel and the republican party is doing the opposite.

Jewish American voters care about abortion and civil rights, etc.

More Jewish Americans need to go Independent, when the AOC wing is clearly pro-Palestinian and the GOP has the "Jews will not replace us" wing of the party.

Joe Lieberman and Michael Bloomberg would be good centrist Independents for a party like that, but that party would probably be too neoconservative....

Because the crimes of the modern Israeli state are not an inherent aspect of being Jewish, and many Jews are skeptical of a party unconditionally defending it.

Most American Jews are Ashkenazi and Ashkenazi Jews in Israel lean left too. The truth is Zionism/being religious/nationalist was never the primary marker of being a Jew, and the sort of right-wing religious nationalism which defines Israel today is pretty alien to most Ashkenazi Jews. Jews prior to the founding of Israel, even many Jews in Israel from the start, had a very large segment who were mostly secular and politically left-wing/socialist. Many were involved in communist movements in Europe. So there's just a long history of being left-wing, which I think sort of makes sense given Jewish history.

Turns out being on the short end of the stick with the Babylonians, the Seleucids, the Romans, the Arabs, damn near most of medieval Europe, the Catholic Church, the Russians, the Germans, and a few others I'm forgetting has made tolerance a bit of a virtue.

Christians United for Israel is an organization with more members than there are Jews in the United States, period.

If that's how he feels, Dermer should be encouraging American evangelicals to move en masse to Israel permanently.  That should keep at bay the looming demographic crisis of Muslim Palestinians eventually overwhelming the Jewish population of Israel in what is looking increasingly like a de facto one-state solution. 

Anyone dumb enough to not realize that the Evangelicals' plan involves the construction of a Third Temple triggering a cataclysmic war that heralds the return of Jesus and all the Jews dying deserves to have them as an ally.

But Palestinian American voters trend Democratic, why would Jewish voters want to stay in a party that is heading towards a more pro-Palestinian bent?

There is a reason why the Jewish vote is for the taking for Republican candidates in the Northeast and so on.....

Jewish voters should be more Independent-minded, should be voting more Independent....

Because unconditional support for the policies of the current Israeli government isn’t the most important issue for all Jewish voters? Some of us prioritize American domestic policy or other foreign policy issues or don’t completely agree with Netanyahu’s policies. I may have disagreements with Palestinian-Americans about some aspects of Israel, but we agree on health care, the Muslim ban, voting rights, climate change.


Thank you for not accusing us of “staying inside the Democrat ghetto” or whatever people would say equivalent to “the Democratic plantation” for Black voters. Personally I feel confident in my ability to make up my own mind and not vote for corrupt fascists.

How about you don't tell Jews how they should and shouldn't vote?

It is not as if the Democrats have done anything to materially negatively affect Israel's security, at least so far. So Jews for whom that is a very salient issue, need not be deflected from voting on other issues that they care about. That is my surmise anyway.

I think even despite the intensity of the Zionist vs. Anti-Zionist debate, most Jews I know on both sides of the issue (and btw there are plenty on both sides, including Haredim so let's be careful with painting Jews as a whole or groups w/in Judaism with broad brush strokes folks) are aware that the biggest source of anti-Semitism in this country is still the Right.

McCarthy had his own "all about the Benjamins" comment, and unlike Ilhan Omar did not apologize. For years, antisemitic conspiracy theories about George Soros have had a starring role in the GOP worldview. Even evangelicals' justification of Israel comes with the caveat that they truly believe the Jews will convert or burn in hell.

You're very astute to point out the "plantation" comment because it is similar. Black ppl and Jewish ppl are actually *not* taken for granted by the Democrats to the extent that they are with the GOP. The Dems treat both as rational, self-interested voters and try to appeal to those interests. WHich btw is very difficult because both communities are so diverse. The GOP's only argument though is that they are "slaves" if they vote Dem, but make absolutely no policy concessions or even listen to the concerns of people affected be discrimination. Their only answer is "this is not a racist country," which directly contradicts most minorities' experiences (which they routinely ignore). Methinks that might not be an effective message lol

Seems sort of anti-Semitic to assume that American Jews would care more about Israel then any other issue.

The dual loyalty trope, except incorporated by Republicans for ineffective pandering purposes rather than for the purpose of treacherous accusations.

They reveal a lot about how they think with their out of touch appeals to a largely secularly liberal group of people. It has certainly not helped win me over to their side.

As has been said above plenty of Jews prioritize issues other then Israel but even among those who care about Israel there's many who are critical of how the Palestinians have been treated and would even welcome a Democratic Party that took a more even handed approach to the conflict.

If your best argument as to why a certain group overwhelmingly doesn't vote for your "side" is because most of them aren't "real" members of that group, you're simply coming up with excuses.

Due to fact Israeli men have to serve in some fashio n the military, Men in America don't have to serve in Military. Men have to sign up for Army Ranger Reserve due to Palestinian Wars

That's why female Jews from Israel try to have multiple pregnancies just like females in the Great Depression had pregnancies known as Baby Boom, due to males dying in WWII and Vietnam Wars

There's a draft in Israel, not anymore in America, that's why Israel is Likud not Labor

Besides anything else, part of the reason is that many (probably most?) Republicans don't in fact actually support Israel in the first place. What they actually support is messianic right wing Christian Zionism (with emphasis on "Christian").

They support Israel because they believe it is necessary as a prophesized step in order for the world to end and be destroyed (and in particular Israel being destroyed with the Battle of Armageddon taking place in Israel).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-israels-unholy-alliance-with-right-wing-evangelicals

etc etc etc

It shouldn't be too hard to understand why many Jews and many Israelis might be somewhat uncomfortable with that sort of "support."

Of course, that is not really true of all Republicans, just the ones that genuinely believe in end times evangelical Christianity. So, for example, Trump likely doesn't believe in this because he doesn't have any particular religious beliefs or moral code, except insofar as "what is good for me personally is good" is a religious belief system or moral code. He just supports Israel in this way because it is convenient politically as a way to lock down support from members of the Republican base who do believe all this right wing religious lunacy.