Talk Elections

But all life is sacred, amirite??

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1128974970275729408

They simply want life to be dependent on the state and not be something that you just have.

They are not pro-life.

They have zero concern, as is evidenced in their policies and attitudes, for life after it leaves the womb.

This is obviously horrible, but it in no way justifies abortion.

That's not the issue at all. Their leaders simply want to be the source of validation of the "worthiness" of life. To their voters, that is not just an unfortunate side effect of their leaders' ego but what they think Government is. Government isn't just a tool to make their lives better but simply exists because there is no existence outside of it.

Pro-lifers consider this to be retribution from God for the child's crossing the border. God took this child away to teach the parents a lesson about the sin of illegal immigration. I imagine that's what conservative logic is on this.

Criticisms of the Republican Party are not arguments in favor of abortion.

You don’t just contract pneumonia that kills after weeks in the hospital in 3 days.  The mother informed cbp that her son was sick 3 days after being apprehended and he was hospitalized that day.  Furthermore, the family was released with an order to appear soon after the boy was hospitalized.

Whether they were apprehended or not, this boy would have died.  You have the right to be angry about this, but it was just a sh**tty set of circumstances...you can’t blame anybody in particular.

That's not the point. The point is that protecting life seems to not be a concern when it comes to actual people for Republicans.

"Republicans" is an incredibly broad group.  This forum would do well to remember that.

In order to be considered truly pro-life, you should:

- Be anti-war
- Be against the death penalty
- Be against abortion (with usual exceptions for rape, incest, mother's life, etc)
- Strongly support increased access to contraceptives so unwanted pregnancies don't happen in the first place
- Support some form of universal healthcare
- Vote for politicians who share most or all of the above positions

Find me some politicians that hold all of said above positions, and I'll vote for them if possible.

Do we want these to be policies and unfunded mandates or outcomes?
I'm fine with having no real safety net if there is virtual no one with no healthcare, housing, and food. I'm fine with the death penalty being an option if its never used.

Enforce mandatory veganism?

Lol no, but I could add that a "pro-life" person should obviously support animals that are killed for food being killed in the most humane way possible, and not treated the way they currently are.

I said nothing about religion. being pro-life does not innately have to be related to being religious, as I share all of those positions except for being anti-abortion and I am an atheist.

I didn't say anything about religion either, and I think I've pretty clearly established that I'm not religious. I linked the second tweet for the allegory; I have no control over the way tweets display here.

The only point is that I'm not taking advice from pro-abortion activists on how to be properly anti-abortion. We'll end abortion on our own with your "helpful advice," thanks.

https://twitter.com/IgnatiusUnderh2/status/1128693091974680578
Maybe this one is clearer.

Well, you won't end abortion whether you're on your own or not, and I wasn't trying to give anyone advice to begin with. I was describing what I view as a truly pro-life outlook.

I'll think of you on the day we end it.

Good to see that you consider people who point out hypocrisies in your views to be the literal devil. That's not remotely the sign of a religious fanatic who can't be reasoned with. Nope, not at all.

Oh, it's very clear. It's passing the buck 100% without addressing glaring inconsistencies in being so-called pro-life. In short, not having a response.

I didn’t realize that pro-lifers drag these children through the desert ::)

Yeah, you could make this argument if you’re religiously inclined I guess. I prefer the secular argument about bad parenting myself.

Did you support the Iraq war?

Is this just meant to be using a child's death as a "gotcha"?  Or are there specific policies to blame here that we should change?

You'll never end it. Even if that partisan court does give you what you want there will still be plenty of states where it is legal. And where it is not legal you'll have a black market of illegal abortions.

Did the overwhelming majority of "pro-life" politicians support the Iraq war?

Ok. So how is it the “pro-life” party’s fault if you agree that it’s bad parenting?

Yes. Generic movement conservatives from the 2000s universally sucked.

Yeah yeah guys let's not use the Parkland deaths as a "gotcha" on perfectly sensible gun policy, now is not the time for politics, something something.

The gotcha happened in each of our hearts a long time ago.

You don’t have to “use” the Parkland students. David Hogg and Kyle Kashuv have done plenty of political prostituting, enough to account for an entire movement anyway.

The fact that you left off the second part of my post and didn't address it leads me to believe that your answer to this question is "yes."

We are making fun of the fact that you are obsessed with abortion and find everything else annoying.

I'm not the one who framed a toddler's death as being about abortion.

These threads will always be the same thing: cries of hypocrisy or moral inconsistency used as weak ballasts to prop up an indefensible position on abortion. No one here ever makes the argument that abortion is good, just that the people who think it is bad are themselves bad.

It's tiresome and the mods should really do more to keep this in the megathread.

I mean yeah, GOP hostility has a hand in killing this boy, there are policies that I would like to see implemented but I am too lazy to type all of them out.

There is not a single Republican policy that resulted in this boy's death. If anything, detaining them managed to keep the boy alive for longer because he was able to be sent to a hospital after reporting he was sick while in custody, rather than allow him to deteriorate and die sooner because his parents wanted to put his life at risk and cross the border illegally.

This also has absolutely nothing to do with abortions, and anyone trying to compare this to those who have pro-life positions has no real argument here.

There are only like one or two people here that actually thinks that abortion is good.
This thread isn't about abortion. It's about how people who are obsessed about it are so at the expense of practically everything else.


See above. Good effort, though.

I have a lot of criticism of Trump immigration policy, I would just like to know exactly which policies are relevant in this particular case.

“Republicans” is at least 90% the Trump party now, so not very broad at all.  You would do well to remember that and get out now rather than continue pretending that your party (which you admit is name only anyway) has any redeeming qualities anymore or still represents you in any way.

By voting for Trump, they did. They knew exactly what they were doing when they sent in that ballot, or else should have known.

And before you respond: No, I don’t mean they literally brought the children to the border. But they made their lives hell when they reached it, or else they ended their lives entirely. Every single person who voted GOP has blood on their hands.

Stop detaining children at the border, stop neglecting them if you do so that they don’t get the medical treatment they need and die, oh and also abolish ICE. Definitely don’t make things worse by amping up “border security” and building a f—ing wall.

Your death would because you are being a baby.

I'll make that argument for you, then.

Abortion is good because it prevents children from being born into abject poverty and living a miserable existence.

Abortion is good because some people simply cannot properly take care of children.

Abortion is good because it can save the life of the mother, in certain situations.


Abortion is good because God literally punished women by forcing them to have miscarriages, per a story straight from the Bible. therefore, God approves.

This child was able to receive medical treatment because he was detained. What you are saying by posting that in this thread is that you want sick children that are irresponsibly and illegally brought here to deteriorate faster and die without any attempt made to save his life.

They’re invaders. I really don’t care if their life is made into a living hell. It can’t be worse than the sh-thole they’re fleeing.

This kid died of pneumonia weeks after being detained. He wasn’t murdered and my hands are clean. Nice try.

Edit: serious question - why do you think my vote for Trump encouraged more illegals? Are you a troll or just plain stupid? That makes absolutely no sense. If you think the caravan was bad now just imagine how massive and unruly it’d be had Hillary won?

He isn't a fetus or a gun, so it's not hypocrisy to them.

They would have been even browner!

I don’t trust teh Browns. It’s like they’re ambiguous. Either you’re black or you’s is white! Pick a side already!

BRB need more ambien.

FTFY

Just because someone doesn't support specific policies you like doesn't mean they are any less pro-life.

You are a vile human being.

Are you even old enough to make a mature judgement? I still can't figure out if you're 13 or an 83?

()

Your definition of "political prostitution" seems to be "they wanted change badly based on their personal experiences and they got vocal and political about it". So did literally every person in history who is politically noteable. Including any and all conservatives, christians, pro-lifers, et cetera.

So is your real argument therefore "political activism is for cucks"? Seems like a strange position to take for somebody posting on a political discussion forum...

Utter horsecrap, and you know it.

A good deal of the "quality of life" any child experiences, however, depends on the personal responsibility of the parents, for that will determine a great deal of the happiness level of a child.  People seem to think a child can have a great life with enough money, even when there parents are irresponsible dipsticks, and that just isn't the case.

Children born below the poverty level in America will be on Medicaid; they, and their mother.  That's a fact.  I know of people who could afford to get married, but didn't because the guy got his girlfriend pregnant and didn't get married to ensure that the child and the baby's mother had Medicaid.  And there is also the CHIP programs, which have been approved with bi-partisan support.  And that's not even mentioning the large number of crisis pregnancy centers that are, to a disproportionate degree, funded by Evangelicals.

This child died because of parents' decision to crash our border, a decision that can have devastating effects on the health of a child with health issues making that journey.  The care he received in an American hospital may well have prolonged his life.  

Our safety-net policies have nothing to do with the morality abortion; these are separate conversations.  Abortion affects the question of whether an unborn child is a human life (and I believe, unequivocally, that it is).  This situation is due to a person making a bad decision to attempt to crash our border with a child who, apparently, had health problems.  The child's death is not the fault of Americans, period.  And that issue has nothing to do with abortion.

It's been decades since I've earnestly used "I know you are but what am I?" as a serious argument, but PM2 certainly presents me with the desire to brush up on Elementary School Snark, as he can present situation where it's use by a sexagenarian is quite defensible, lol.